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Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 09:58 AM
Funny how servers go down people go nuts. People find ways to connect.

But now theres groups selling VPN's for 10$ a month? way to take advantage of people LOL

Oh and I don't know who or where. I was informed by someone else.

IndignationSWF
Jul 9, 2014, 09:59 AM
There are always those that will feed off of people's weaknesses.

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 10:03 AM
And somehow PSO2 is now Pay 2 play :nono:

Chidori
Jul 9, 2014, 10:03 AM
lol wow that sucks

Zipzo
Jul 9, 2014, 10:04 AM
And somehow PSO2 is now Pay 2 play :nono:

It's always been, you are helpless without premium in a game like PSO2.

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 10:06 AM
It's always been, you are helpless without premium in a game like PSO2.

I am starting to believe this.

2 days ago i got an 11*, yesterday i had unteks, turns out one was an 11* talis. 2, 2 days after i purchased premium. and yet 2 years and not a single one? :no:
1 11* per day in the span of 2 ^^;

and thats with LITTLE play time, to note. not the usual 8+hours a day

Sizustar
Jul 9, 2014, 10:09 AM
I am starting to believe this.

2 days ago i got an 11*, yesterday i had unteks, turns out one was an 11* talis. 2, 2 days after i purchased premium. and yet 2 years and not a single one? :no:
1 11* per day in the span of 2 ^^;

and thats with LITTLE play time, to note. not the usual 8+hours a day

RNG, nothing to do with Premiuim.(Have a teamate with no premium got 11~12* consistantly, he has 3 50 Element Elder rod now..
Another popular theory is that it's based on ID>

SJRKnowledge96
Jul 9, 2014, 10:12 AM
RNG, nothing to do with Premiuim.(Have a teamate with no premium got 11~12* consistantly, he has 3 50 Element Elder rod now..
Another popular theory is that it's based on ID>

Both of which I find complete bogus, personally. I think it's just purely based on your luck. If you're like me, you'll find yourself hamming up your inability to even get 7-9*s (often as a form of humour), which are commonly touted as not even being rares anymore, but rather "uncommons". Same applies for grinding and Rare Enemy chances.

GHNeko
Jul 9, 2014, 10:13 AM
Rares based on ID?

Sega just couldnt let that go could they? lmfao.

That'd be glorious if that was true.

Dammy
Jul 9, 2014, 10:14 AM
It's always been, you are helpless without premium in a game like PSO2.

wrong

GHNeko
Jul 9, 2014, 10:16 AM
Yeah for real.

Granted it makes the game a lot easier, but you dont need it to be successful.

BlankM
Jul 9, 2014, 10:25 AM
XQ weapons are really good guise. And before that Stone shop weapons were really good.

GHNeko
Jul 9, 2014, 10:34 AM
If you can get lucky and get a my shop ticket then that is ripe with opportunity.

Zipzo
Jul 9, 2014, 10:42 AM
wrong

Right.

Tell me a premium (or paying in general) player doesn't have massive advantages over-reaching several important elements of the game compared to free players so I can laugh at you.

UnLucky
Jul 9, 2014, 10:48 AM
Free players can't even buy worthless trash 10*s

Gimp

Good luck finding your Gloam units! White Tail? What's that?

Kikikiki
Jul 9, 2014, 10:49 AM
Is OP implying that he isn't included in the PSO2 community?

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 10:53 AM
Free play has its upside- Its free, and luther gives you all the 10*'s you'll ever need, plus TD gives you all the 10* units you'll ever need. Then you beat up a homeless dude for manage to get 30$ and pay for AC = profit


Is OP implying that he isn't included in the PSO2 community?

Nope, didn't say that lol.

Shiyo
Jul 9, 2014, 10:54 AM
I am starting to believe this.

2 days ago i got an 11*, yesterday i had unteks, turns out one was an 11* talis. 2, 2 days after i purchased premium. and yet 2 years and not a single one? :no:
1 11* per day in the span of 2 ^^;

and thats with LITTLE play time, to note. not the usual 8+hours a day

He wasn't talking about luck, which has absolutely nothing to do with having Prem or not.

He's talking about how you get 4x the FUN per day and essentially 10-100x the meseta, plus the ability to buy 10 star units/weapons and 11 star weapons.

I literally wouldn't find this game worth my time or playable if I couldn't purchase 10 or 11 star weapons or units.

Before they added 10 star unit/weapon passes and 11 star weapon passes I never found upgrades, 10 stars weren't obtainable unless you were very lucky and you sat on easy to obtain/grind 9 stars with very boring potentials forever, basically. Being able to actually obtain more fun and interesting weapons and unit combo's adds massive replay value and fun to the game.

Not having prem is horrible. They're scum for locking 10 star passes behind prem as well.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 10:54 AM
Right.

Tell me a premium (or paying in general) player doesn't have massive advantages over-reaching several important elements of the game compared to free players so I can laugh at you.


XQ weapons are really good guise.

Premium really doesn't give you as massive of an advantage when bio weapons everyone has access to are at least among the top 5 weapons of their category.

Other than that, it's more of convenience.

room: FUN
shop: FUN
premium drinks: RNG
40 COs: meh
premium blocks: people can camp blocks without premium.




Good luck finding your Gloam units!

They drop pretty easy in XQ as is.


White Tail?What's that?

That is valid, at least until it goes the way of gloam, and medea.


Honestly, smart use of premium for one month is more than enough for all the passes you'll need. After that, I wouldn't treat this game as a sub mmo.

DJcooltrainer
Jul 9, 2014, 10:54 AM
Funny how servers go down people go nuts. People find ways to connect.

But now theres groups selling VPN's for 10$ a month? way to take advantage of people LOL

Oh and I don't know who or where. I was informed by someone else.

VPNs have been around way longer than any MMO game, and $10 a month ain't bad for a dedicated private VPN wtih unlimited bandwidth. How is that 'taking advantage' of anyone?

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 10:57 AM
Situational advantage. Why now, of all times, it suddenly becomes important? Hey SEA players needed a VPN, but suddenly we all need one now? - Insinuating the SEA IP block would have been a good time to start up the VPN service

Clearly taking advantage.

Zipzo
Jul 9, 2014, 10:59 AM
Situational advantage. Why now, of all times, it suddenly becomes important? Hey SEA players needed a VPN, but suddenly we all need one now?

What better time!

Clearly taking advantage.

It's doing more to get people connected than you are...

Kikikiki
Jul 9, 2014, 11:00 AM
Nope, didn't say that lol.

imĚply
/imˈplī/
verb
strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated).

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 11:03 AM
It's doing more to get people connected than you are...

If there was anything I could do, to assist, I'm certain I would have done so by now.

Unlike some, playing with my friends, and meeting new ones is more of a reward than taking peoples money.

But who am I to say, they probably have all the friendslaves they need :D


imĚply
/imˈplī/
verb
strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated).


I know what imply is. My above statement is pretty full of implications

Lostbob117
Jul 9, 2014, 11:08 AM
Right.

Tell me a premium (or paying in general) player doesn't have massive advantages over-reaching several important elements of the game compared to free players so I can laugh at you.

Sure, paying gives you a lot of advantages. That doesn't make free to play players helpless though.

Zipzo
Jul 9, 2014, 11:15 AM
Sure, paying gives you a lot of advantages. That doesn't make free to play players helpless though.

An MMO is about competition and keeping up. If you are massively disadvantaged to other players with no way to bridge that gap other than to pay, you are for all intents and purposes, helpless in comparison.

DJcooltrainer
Jul 9, 2014, 11:19 AM
Situational advantage. Why now, of all times, it suddenly becomes important? Hey SEA players needed a VPN, but suddenly we all need one now? - Insinuating the SEA IP block would have been a good time to start up the VPN service

Clearly taking advantage.

Perhaps I'm missing something here, are there people specifically targeting private VPN services to PSO2 players in the community? Because that's not something I've seen here, or any of the other PSO communities I am a member of.

People are just pointing out what options there are, and like I said before, people use VPNs for legitimate purposes that don't involve MMO games.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 11:25 AM
An MMO is about competition and keeping up. If you are massively disadvantaged to other players with no way to bridge that gap other than to pay, you are for all intents and purposes, helpless in comparison.

In an MO with actual difficulty, and pvp instead of TA records, that would be an actual issue.

Kikikiki
Jul 9, 2014, 11:30 AM
I know what imply is. My above statement is pretty full of implications

The statement that I quoted doesn't though.

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 11:30 AM
Perhaps I'm missing something here, are there people specifically targeting private VPN services to PSO2 players in the community? Because that's not something I've seen here, or any of the other PSO communities I am a member of.

People are just pointing out what options there are, and like I said before, people use VPNs for legitimate purposes that don't involve MMO games.

I mustn't have included, it but the person who told me said it was specific to PSO2 users. I don't know who the group is or if they'd allow it for other uses but whose to say.

Shiyo
Jul 9, 2014, 11:42 AM
Premium really doesn't give you as massive of an advantage when bio weapons everyone has access to are at least among the top 5 weapons of their category.
.
Months of grinding(bio weapons) or grinding forest SHAQ for maybe 5 hours total and getting ~3 11 stars.
Not comparable at all.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 11:47 AM
Months of grinding(bio weapons) or grinding forest SHAQ for maybe 5 hours total and getting ~3 11 stars.
Not comparable at all.

Lol 'months'.

You can buy passes with 6 cubes now (which grow on tress). We get 6 large stones (2 of each type) from title rewards. A converter (trade one large stone for another large stone associated with the XQ you cleared), and 25 medium stones for doing 1-70 tundra mechs/forest dragons, 15 for aquatic darkers. That's before we even count the stones from drops. You need 30 for a large stone.

You're lying, or really out of the loop if you think it takes months.

Shiyo
Jul 9, 2014, 11:57 AM
It's about 100x more time and effort than buying a vastly superior weapon with prem.

DJcooltrainer
Jul 9, 2014, 12:04 PM
I mustn't have included, it but the person who told me said it was specific to PSO2 users. I don't know who the group is or if they'd allow it for other uses but whose to say.

Ah, okay. That is pretty shady, for sure. I would not trust someone who is marketing a VPN specifically for PSO2, there are tons of secure and trustworthy companies you can went a VPN from.

obsexed
Jul 9, 2014, 12:06 PM
you can always craft 9* blitz/tian set, affix them and get XQ spellstone weps, no need for premium.

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 12:11 PM
Lol 'months'.

You can buy passes with 6 cubes now (which grow on tress). We get 6 large stones (2 of each type) from title rewards. A converter (trade one large stone for another large stone associated with the XQ you cleared), and 25 medium stones for doing 1-70 tundra mechs/forest dragons, 15 for aquatic darkers. That's before we even count the stones from drops. You need 30 for a large stone.

You're lying, or really out of the loop if you think it takes months.

Thats quite abit to take in o_o correct me, please. You're saying you can now trade 6x Excubes for 10* passes? if so I've been had! I want my AC back LOL 70% of my reason for getting it was handing in 26 10*'s worth of W-passes, and ~15 of U-passes.
U- unit
W- Weapon


It's about 100x more time and effort than buying a vastly superior weapon with prem.

I'd say 10,000x more effort. I hardly got stones for VHaqs. Even with people wanting to do them. SHAQs seem like a similar situation for me. Too much effort. I'd settle with what i found, if unusable I'd stash it xD.
>Umbra Rod Tech III/Stamina III
>Vardha set Tech III/Stamina III

LonelyGaruga
Jul 9, 2014, 12:14 PM
You're saying you can now trade 6x Excubes for 10* passes?

XQ passes. Check the context. Though, I thought it was 12 EX Cubes. Huh.

But yeah. People severely overstate the difficulty of acquiring rares without premium.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 12:16 PM
It's about 100x more time and effort than buying a vastly superior weapon with prem.

That's an exaggeration and you know it.

As for your 'vastly superior' weapons claim, let's begin to dismantle that, shall we?

Outside of potentials that increase damage delt if you're hitting the enemies weakness:

Sword: bio sword is the best sword in game for raw record setting damage dealing
WLs: bio WLs
partisan: bio, unless you want slightly more damage for assbuster only.
katana: orochi, which you cant buy even if you had premium. After that is yasha... only if you're matching elements with everything you attack, so even if you had premium, chances are you're not grinding/affixing a rainbow of them. After yasha it's... *gasp* BIO!

I don't need to keep doing this, do I?

Shiyo
Jul 9, 2014, 12:17 PM
That's an exaggeration and you know it.

As for your 'vastly superior' weapons claim, let's begin to dismantle that, shall we?

Outside of potentials that increase damage delt if you're hitting the enemies weakness:

Sword: bio sword is the best sword in game for raw record setting damage dealing
WLs: bio WLs
partisan: bio, unless you want slightly more damage for assbuster only.
katana: orochi, which you cant buy even if you had premium. After that is yasha... only if you're matching elements with everything you attack, so even if you had premium, chances are you're not grinding/affixing a rainbow of them. After yasha it's... *gasp* BIO!

I don't need to keep doing this, do I?
You ignored potentials, that is why they're not good. You don't ignore potentials.

There's also 6 swords better than Bio for pure sattk so IDK what you're even trying to say.

Anyways, it's much easier to find an 11 star in a few hours of SHAQ's than spamming ~90 extremes for a single bio weapon. I got 10-12 11 star weapons last time I did forest with 100% rare boost day, in much shorter time I can basically purchase many more weapons that are superior :)

Prem isn't an option at this point, unless you want to play handicapped.

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 12:18 PM
XQ passes. Check the context. Though, I thought it was 12 EX Cubes. Huh.

But yeah. People severely overstate the difficulty of acquiring rares without premium.

That makes sense lol!
I'm fine for EQ passes, in fact i have 105 by now. I believe Selling them is more profitable to my cause. and O M G i haven't tried trading as prem yet *squee*

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 12:23 PM
You ignored potentials, that is why they're not good. You don't ignore potentials.


I didn't ignore potentials read that again.

Bio sword is the best sword for damage because of its potential.

Better yet, go to the swiki yourself and figure it out yourself.

The only potentials I did not count are the element weakness types because they're as specific as species-destroyer potentials.



There's also 6 swords better than Bio for pure sattk so IDK what you're even trying to say.


See above. Do you not know how % multipliers work? Bio sword will deal more damage than them considering potentials, so what you just said, does not matter.



Anyways, it's much easier to find an 11 star in a few hours of SHAQ's than spamming ~90 extremes for a single bio weapon. I got 10-12 11 star weapons last time I did forest with 100% rare boost day, in much shorter time I can basically purchase many more weapons that are superior :)

I just proved to you that in some categories, there is nothing superior than bio that premium can get for you (premium does not hand you orochi).

If you're going to make the case that 'id rather not do so much work to get something better', then you're just lazy. I'm not going to buy premium so I can buy an inferior sword because i'm too lazy to grind for a better one, but it sounds like that's what you will do.

UnLucky
Jul 9, 2014, 12:26 PM
They drop pretty easy in XQ as is.

That is valid, at least until it goes the way of gloam, and medea.
Yeah, now they do, but not for the longest time.

You'd actually be pretty hard pressed to find a 10* that sells for very much. Premos have 11* passes, so all that outdated gear is garbage.

But just cause it costs under 1m doesn't mean it's easy to find. Anyone who can buy them doesn't want to. Prices would spike something fierce if 10*s became tradeable.

The whole no trade thing is just the worst. Not even premium users actually trade much more than meseta the odd time, but it'd be really nice in the early difficulties. And it's not just premium, there are other AC exclusives that are more than simple convenience.

Shiyo
Jul 9, 2014, 12:30 PM
I just proved to you that in some categories, there is nothing superior than bio that premium can get for you (premium does not hand you orochi).

It doesn't change the fact it takes ~90 extreme passes/runs to get a single weapon and ~5 hours of forest SHAQ to get multiple 11 stars.

Much more effort, and Bio isn't the best weapon for every class and build. No bio weapon is good for my TE/HU, for example.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 12:32 PM
It doesn't change the fact it takes ~90 extreme passes/runs to get a single weapon and ~5 hours of forest SHAQ to get multiple 11 stars.

Okay, so you're lazy.



Much more effort, and Bio isn't the best weapon for every class and build. No bio weapon is good for my TE/HU, for example.

Never said it was the best for every category. I said it was in the top 5 at least. As such, you're not at a huge disadvantage of you opt to use bio, contrary to what you claimed.

LonelyGaruga
Jul 9, 2014, 12:35 PM
It doesn't change the fact it takes ~90 extreme passes/runs to get a single weapon and ~5 hours of forest SHAQ to get multiple 11 stars.

Pfffthahahahahaha

What kind of SHAQ runs do you have to have such a terrible profit level? I get that in half the time without a 250% booster, if not more than that number of 11*s. Don't really see the big deal with 11*s anyway, there are still a lot of relevant 10*s that outperform 11*s with their latent applied.


No bio weapon is good for my TE/HU, for example.

Unless you can equip Glorious Swing/Trident Crusher, along with owning a rainbow set of them, then Bio weapons are your optimal choice for all of your subclass' weapons. How is that no good? Bio Rias (Rod) has been used to great effect in Te/Hu TA runs too, though it isn't necessary with really high end affixes.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 12:36 PM
Pfffthahahahahaha

What kind of SHAQ runs do you have to have such a terrible profit level? I get that in half the time without a 250% booster, if not more than that number of 11*s. Don't really see the big deal with 11*s anyway, there are still a lot of relevant 10*s that outperform 11*s with their latent applied.

Poorly applied exaggeration is the name of his game.

Shiyo
Jul 9, 2014, 12:36 PM
Okay, so you're lazy.



Never said it was the best for every category. I said it was in the top 5 at least. As such, you're not at a huge disadvantage of you opt to use bio, contrary to what you claimed.
The fuck kind of response is this?

"Oh you're right, so I'm going to call you lazy :^)"

The fuck? Go away, thanks.


Pfffthahahahahaha

What kind of SHAQ runs do you have to have such a terrible profit level? I get that in half the time without a 250% booster, if not more than that number of 11*s. Don't really see the big deal with 11*s anyway, there are still a lot of relevant 10*s that outperform 11*s with their latent applied.

.
Can you not respond in a completely insane way? I'm saying ~5 hours because maybe someone had bad luck, it isn't rare boost, and they aren't popping rare boosters.

Who knows what the average drop rates are for completely RNG drops. If it's less than 5 hours, my point stands even more, Bio weapons are much more effort and time for a SINGLE weapon.

If 10 stars out-preform 11 stars, my point is even more accurate, since you can buy them with prem, but cannot without it. You're relying purely on RNG, which isn't going to be that effective.

Bio sword is good for TE/HU, my mistake, I don't use Partizan so I never looked, but the Partizan is probably good too. No good wands, though.

I'm using full +faction(native/darker/dragon/etc) want set with proper element, which are all 10 star, that I bought, then grinded, then bought more to 50 affix.

if I didn't have prem? Good luck finding enough of any weapon to 50 element it.

Oh, that's another thing, non-prem users will pretty much NEVER 50 element their 11 or 10 stars unless they're from stones.

Prem is a huge advantage. Having it at least once, to turn all your extra 10 and 11 star units/weapons into passes is essentially mandatory. Anyone arguing against that is simply wrong.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 12:38 PM
The whole no trade thing is just the worst. Not even premium users actually trade much more than meseta the odd time, but it'd be really nice in the early difficulties. And it's not just premium, there are other AC exclusives that are more than simple convenience.

I'll give you mags and skill trees, but that's not under the 'premium onry' clause.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 12:43 PM
The fuck kind of response is this?

"Oh you're right, so I'm going to call you lazy :^)"

The fuck? Go away, thanks.

You want a sword.

Instead of getting quality, you want the easier-to-get/buy quantity that isn't as good when used.

You keep using that as a point of why premium is better.

That is what makes you lazy.

Also, no you're not right.

Also, I like how you avoid commenting on select points in my posts you can't refute, like this:


Never said it was the best for every category. I said it was in the top 5 at least. As such, you're not at a huge disadvantage of you opt to use bio, contrary to what you claimed.

I didn't ignore potentials read that again.

Bio sword is the best sword for damage because of its potential.

Better yet, go to the swiki yourself and figure it out yourself.

The only potentials I did not count are the element weakness types because they're as specific as species-destroyer potentials.

Oh, and this right here:


If you're going to make the case that 'id rather not do so much work to get something better', then you're just lazy. I'm not going to buy premium so I can buy an inferior sword because i'm too lazy to grind for a better one, but it sounds like that's what you will do.
That's being lazy.

UnLucky
Jul 9, 2014, 12:51 PM
Pfffthahahahahaha

What kind of SHAQ runs do you have to have such a terrible profit level? I get that in half the time without a 250% booster, if not more than that number of 11*s. Don't really see the big deal with 11*s anyway, there are still a lot of relevant 10*s that outperform 11*s with their latent applied.

Finding a trash 10/11* is piss easy

Finding a real one and getting it to 50% can take a lifetime

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 12:52 PM
Can you not respond in a completely insane way?

He probably wouldn't if you didn't make a completely insane exaggeration.


Who knows what the average drop rates are for completely RNG drops. If it's less than 5 hours

I told you already, you're promised converters, medium stones, and large stones (through title rewards) for doing XQs before RNG becomes a factor. Everything you've said about XQs so far leads me to believe you don't even do them to know anything first hand.


my point stands even more, Bio weapons are much more effort and time for a SINGLE weapon.

Quality>quantity. Especially when bio weapons are the best weapons for certain categories, you may as well get them.


If 10 stars out-preform 11 stars, my point is even more accurate

Not all of them do.


if I didn't have prem? Good luck finding enough of any weapon to 50 element it.

Oh, that's another thing, non-prem users will pretty much NEVER 50 element their 11 or 10 stars unless they're from stones.

Depends on the weapon. You have a bad habit of talking in absolutes.


Having it at least once, to turn all your extra 10 and 11 star units/weapons into passes is essentially mandatory. Anyone arguing against that is simply wrong.

That I agree with.

LonelyGaruga
Jul 9, 2014, 12:54 PM
Can you not respond in a completely insane way? I'm saying ~5 hours because maybe someone had bad luck, it isn't rare boost, and they aren't popping rare boosters.

I'm speaking with all of those in mind. I outright said I'm not using rare boosters. Don't know how you missed that one.


Who knows what the average drop rates are for completely RNG drops. If it's less than 5 hours, my point stands even more, Bio weapons are much more effort and time for a SINGLE weapon.

Well, yes. What's the problem with that? They're all-class, guaranteed, and honestly pretty lenient for what they are, since they can be used anywhere to reasonable effect. I don't see the problem.


If 10 stars out-preform 11 stars, my point is even more accurate, since you can buy them with prem, but cannot without it. You're relying purely on RNG, which isn't going to be that effective.

That doesn't make what you say any more accurate. I'm just pointing out that saying 11*s like they're the only relevant rarity category is inaccurate.


Bio sword is good for TE/HU, my mistake, I don't use Partizan so I never looked, but the Partizan is probably good too. No good wands, though.

Bio Pyrus/Wand is perfectly fine for me, I'm running Te/Fi. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't make it bad.


I'm using full +faction(native/darker/dragon/etc) want set with proper element, which are all 10 star, that I bought, then grinded, then bought more to 50 affix.

I have all of those through random drops (besides Noire, unless you're using Ex, in which case I've acquired enough of those through random drops to get 3-4 at 50 element), on top of two Elysions, GSD Wand, and around 20-30 10*s to use for element grinding, on top of some other things for classes I don't play. I'm freemium.

Sure, it took a lot of time. Sure, I still need to affix that stuff after I'm done element grinding, and some of that stuff isn't grinded yet. Sure, it wasn't easy to get everything I have. But I accomplished far more than you seem to think is possible for a freemium user, which is my point.

Freemium is way less of a handicap than people give it credit for.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 12:55 PM
Freemium is way less of a handicap than people give it credit for.

This is the point I'm trying to make here, but people want to fight about it.

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 01:04 PM
Free does have its downsides, Like lack of trading, and certain features.

But we are allowed rooms, room passes, even Shops should Lady luck look upon us. I find this a great thing, Hell, Mabinogi and Tibia for examples, refuse to allow you to even start a team unless you are premium, and they lure you in to constantly resubscribe because if you lose your premium status you lose your team. (dont know about mabinogi's situation for losing premium)

Shiyo
Jul 9, 2014, 01:19 PM
Oh, I completely forgot that Bio weapons only have 30 element so you need to ~180 passes total to get a single weapon to 50 element.

.Jack
Jul 9, 2014, 01:25 PM
Oh, I completely forgot that Bio weapons only have 30 element so you need to ~180 passes total to get a single weapon to 50 element.

Nah, just a few million + similar weapon in rank and it'll be 50% in a matter of minutes.

Kikikiki
Jul 9, 2014, 01:26 PM
Loser trade-ins where.

Of course it doesn't apply to all trade-in 11*s but the ones available are the most commonly used ones anyway.

By the way PSO2 and its community also includes JPs so the fucking donkey OP should fix the thread title.

Shiyo
Jul 9, 2014, 01:28 PM
Nah, just a few million + similar weapon in rank and it'll be 50% in a matter of minutes.

You can't buy 11 stars without having Prem :)

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 01:29 PM
Oh, I completely forgot that Bio weapons only have 30 element so you need to ~180 passes total to get a single weapon.
So?
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g326/Rasheed_Marshall/b172a495-14c0-4616-bb7a-5c6bc681ac84_zpsd3acf51b.jpg?t=1404930529
Didn't need premium for currently the best all around WLs in the game. I was sitting on hundreds of passes up to now and never made up my mind on what I wanted til recently.

Before someone gives me shit about affixes, i'm waiting on 10% affix boost week which is coming soon (tm).

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 01:30 PM
Loser trade-ins where.

Of course it doesn't apply to all trade-in 11*s but the ones available are the most commonly used ones anyway.

By the way PSO2 and its community also includes JPs so the fucking donkey OP should fix the thread title.

aww im a donkey now <3 that means I have a purpose to carry people's stuff. (Lol forgot my title)

Anyway, I made your wish come true, happy? Now wheres my damn Oats!

LonelyGaruga
Jul 9, 2014, 01:30 PM
You can't buy 11 stars without having Prem :)

You don't need to buy them. And nice way to ignore everything said against your points.

.Jack
Jul 9, 2014, 01:33 PM
Yeah, he said so himself finding multiple 11*s in a few hours so I'm not sure if he's trolling or ignorant.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 01:34 PM
You don't need to buy them. And nice way to ignore everything said against your points.

Bet he's going to ignore my picture on the previous page.

IndignationSWF
Jul 9, 2014, 01:37 PM
I've not had premium ever and I've had no problem getting several 10*+ pieces on SH/EM runs. Seems kind of pointless to me unless I wanted to expand my Room or Team options.

Revenya
Jul 9, 2014, 01:40 PM
Yeah, he said so himself finding multiple 11*s in a few hours so I'm not sure if he's trolling or ignorant.

Haha, both?

Atlantis419
Jul 9, 2014, 01:43 PM
I run xq all the time and I'm premium. Bio weapons are actually great for just about anything and in some categories they are the best all around weapon. Not sure what's the problem, also its really only about 72 passes to get a weapon not 90, at least for your first two bio weapons. They give you two stones from each type already plus some converters. The mech and dragons xq gives you nearly a full stone anyway upon completion. You might only need to work a little bit for the oceanid xq since it's 15 to complete it but on the bright side it seems the bio weapons from that particular xq has loser trade ins. Also you don't need to buy a bunch of the same weapon types either if you have enough money you can just buy 5% element boosters.... just need to do your tacos lol.

Shiyo
Jul 9, 2014, 01:44 PM
Holy shit no wonder everyone says this site is horrible, so much stupidity.

"I agree that Prem is an advantage but I'm going to argue anyways"

"I'm going to call someone ignorant and stupid for claiming that grinding forest and hoping for enough 11 stars of the same weapon type to add +20 element to a bio weapon that already takes 10x the time and effort to farm than buying a good 11 star off the shops isn't even more time and effort"

Yeah, totally ignorant and stupid for stating that prem is a huge advantage and you're at a handicap without it.

If that makes me stupid and ignorant then I will forever stay ignorant and stupid.

The_Brimada
Jul 9, 2014, 01:46 PM
Fact of the matter is premium is NOT required to do well in this game, but it does make things easier.

UnLucky
Jul 9, 2014, 01:47 PM
Remember when the first 11* weapons were absolute trash? And then XQ trade-ins were finally useful but took forever to get? And then they got completely outclassed by real drops that don't drop? Bio weapons are only a recent thing, but people here consider them the standard.

Back in my day, budget AQ weapons didn't even exist and everyone was crying about how shit 9*s were while 10*s were but a pipe dream.

WTB> trash 12*s to 50% my Psycho Wand. Premium is worthless to me.

Chidori
Jul 9, 2014, 01:51 PM
love and peace everyone ^^ here have some cakes k? :cake:

LonelyGaruga
Jul 9, 2014, 01:52 PM
Holy shit no wonder everyone says this site is horrible, so much stupidity.


The fuck kind of response is this?

"Oh you're right, so I'm going to call you lazy :^)"

The fuck? Go away, thanks.

Replace lazy with stupid, and this is exactly what you've just done.

The argument was only about how much you were exaggerating freemium's handicap by a ridiculous margin. Don't know how you missed that.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 02:21 PM
"I'm going to call someone ignorant and stupid for claiming that grinding forest and hoping for enough 11 stars of the same weapon type to add +20 element to a bio weapon that already takes 10x the time and effort to farm than buying a good 11 star off the shops isn't even more time and effort"

Yeah, totally ignorant and stupid for stating that prem is a huge advantage and you're at a handicap without it.

If that makes me stupid and ignorant then I will forever stay ignorant and stupid.

If the bio weapon is better than shit I can buy from players, or find from any enemy, why would I waste the meseta when good 'ol effort gives me a better reward? In this example, premium is not an advantage.

Also, I only had to buy the same bio weapon through stones twice; not hope 20 11* WLs dropped... so... yeah thanks for admitting you're ignorant, stupid, and lazy. :-)

This community may be bad, but it is because of fools that post like you do. There's at least 4 people in the last 2 pages that know you're wrong.



Just occurred to me, the only reason you're probably saying this community is bad right now because 3 more people shown up to say you're wrong/overstating how much of a disadvantage not having premium is, and the XQ grind. So we're all bad people be we call you out for being wrong? Should I call you childish now?

Meyfei
Jul 9, 2014, 05:37 PM
So when did this become a call eachother stupid thread? Attention span that slow or something?

I don't mind a bit of offtopic dicussion, but really? Cant you people just grow up for even an hour? This is toward us ALL.

Galax
Jul 9, 2014, 05:40 PM
I mostly kept myself to myself and focused on getting by. Don't need to be the best, use the best; Don't need to dish the most or take the least damage.

I just needed the ability to kill things in a semi-timely fashion. If it takes me fifteen minutes to slay a trap e-trial in F.Cont on SH [which it does], I'm okay because I made it out.

Premium has advantages, but it seems everyone here is focusing on some...I guess arbitrary idea of how fast you have to be and how much damage you have to dish to be considered "good", and then see that Premium gives access to things that significantly help this, and just forget that you can just be "decent" and still get by.

In short, premium is optional and you do not ever need it to be a decent, or even a good player. The drop rates are abysmal, and luck is varied because RNG is RNG and it hates 90% of the playerbase but changes which 90% it hates at a moment's notice.

Also why shell out hundreds of thousands and often enough upwards of MILLIONS OF MESETA for a rare you don't actually need?

UnLucky
Jul 9, 2014, 05:56 PM
So when did this become a call eachother stupid thread?
I thought that was the topic at hand. Why did you make the thread in the first place?

ShinMaruku
Jul 9, 2014, 06:21 PM
Telling people to grow up it not quite the same as calling them stupid.

Cortte
Jul 9, 2014, 06:50 PM
It's always been, you are helpless without premium in a game like PSO2.

I can't agree with that. I have full +10 vibrace set. Each 3 slotted for 85 R-Attack as a lvl 70/70 RA/BR. The one and only time I've ever spent money on the game was for a new mag. Aside from that I play the waiting game with FUN scratch.


My wife is currently sitting on 11 shop passes and has also only gotten premium once. Honestly with how easy FUN points are to get through EX-Cubes, premium is almost a complete non issue. The only perks worth it are trading, and high rarity passes.

Kikikiki
Jul 9, 2014, 08:18 PM
aww im a donkey now <3 that means I have a purpose to carry people's stuff. (Lol forgot my title)

Anyway, I made your wish come true, happy? Now wheres my damn Oats!

should
/SHo͝od/
verb
1.
used to indicate obligation, duty, or correctness, typically when criticizing someone's actions.

It's not my wish. You were wrong in the first place. Learn to read, you fucking donkey.

oratank
Jul 9, 2014, 08:53 PM
if you ponit at high lv freemium there are really no disadvantage just only trade and 11s shop pass.
but at the start point u know it really is.

TaigaUC
Jul 9, 2014, 08:58 PM
I am starting to believe this.

2 days ago i got an 11*, yesterday i had unteks, turns out one was an 11* talis. 2, 2 days after i purchased premium. and yet 2 years and not a single one? :no:
1 11* per day in the span of 2 ^^;

and thats with LITTLE play time, to note. not the usual 8+hours a day

What. That's because 11 stars were rare as fk before.
Now they drop all the time. I'm drowning in 11 stars now.
It has nothing to do with Premium. And it's not "RNG". They just changed the drops a lot.

Premium does make some aspects of the game easier, but not like that.

Now, if you're going to talk about the EN community in PSO2, maybe talk about how they seem to hang around being loud in random lobbies, adding "lol" at the end of every sentence.
And why, even in partied groups, they're STILL doing really badly in both TDs, northern heroing all day long and letting all the towers and walls immediately get flattened.
Or why lately there seem to be more EN players publically spamming autowords (and cut-ins) on every single attack and event in multiparty.
It's like they're trying to say "HEY! I'M NOT BLOCKED SO I'M GOING TO BE A HUGE DICK!"
I see all this stuff and keep thinking, "I wish these were the people who were blocked, not the good players".

Oh, and random people suddenly trying to profit by selling VPNs for PSO2 are all possible suspects for the DDoSer.

Enforcer MKV
Jul 9, 2014, 09:24 PM
Not sure what's worse; PSO2's community or PSOw's community....Sheesh...

Reyva
Jul 9, 2014, 09:42 PM
PSOw's community is worse which is why I rather play PSO2: Forum Edition than the game itself. The actual PSO2 community is boring and doesn't care about having top end gear for a game that is a joke with shit gear anyways (Tested and tried, still a joke). They are all about having fun :P. The drama from the fact that they cannot connect to play the game is priceless haha.

However, I know of some folks who won't give a dime to Segac and they have good gear so to each their own. Personally, for the ones who are out to prove something, I rather just leech their party and just call them awesome the entire time just to boost their ego.

Then again, my ultimate dream was for "westerners" to be IP banned from this game forever. Damn shame it looks like it won't be happening..............yet :P.

LonelyGaruga
Jul 9, 2014, 09:44 PM
So when did this become a call eachother stupid thread? Attention span that slow or something?

I don't mind a bit of offtopic dicussion, but really? Cant you people just grow up for even an hour? This is toward us ALL.

It shouldn't be toward everyone. Not everyone is at fault. If someone can't handle being wrong and calls the people telling them they're wrong stupid, and gets called out for it, how is everyone involved in the wrong? That's just unapologetically unjust.


I just needed the ability to kill things in a semi-timely fashion. If it takes me fifteen minutes to slay a trap e-trial in F.Cont on SH [which it does], I'm okay because I made it out.

1) The EC fails within 5-10 minutes, so you can't take that long. Exaggeration?
2) If you are taking that long, you aren't killing in a semi-timely manner. That EC takes at most two minutes, and shouldn't take longer than 30 seconds to a minute.

I get your point, but it doesn't sound like you're in a very good position to describe it. Players should strive to be as good as they can be, not just for themselves, but for everyone they play with. Settling for the mediocrity you've described is about the worst thing you can do. That kind of play is exactly what nobody wants in their MPA, and just serves to hamper everyone involved. If literally 100% of the quests you run are solo, then fine, you're the only one affected, but if you ever once play with another person, you should do your utmost as a player to not be a burden.

Kondibon
Jul 9, 2014, 10:01 PM
I get your point, but it doesn't sound like you're in a very good position to describe it. Players should strive to be as good as they can be, not just for themselves, but for everyone they play with. Settling for the mediocrity you've described is about the worst thing you can do. That kind of play is exactly what nobody wants in their MPA, and just serves to hamper everyone involved. If literally 100% of the quests you run are solo, then fine, you're the only one affected, but if you ever once play with another person, you should do your utmost as a player to not be a burden.Whether or not the other people consider you a burden or not is up to them. Which is why I think the game needs less random 12 man EQs and more stuff that people can be organize and do on their own time.

"Take your time to organize your own groups, find like minded people, if you can't then don't force your play style on other people. If you're in a pug never expect to be able to rely on them, be constructive with criticisms and explanations, don't lash out when criticized, and be as considerate as possible regardless of how good or bad they are." is what I want to say, but when you only have 30 minutes to do as many runs as possible of something that just suddenly showed up without warning, or at a time when your friends might not be on (assuming you even know enough good players) it just isn't feasible. That's why people whine about pugs in EQs more than in AQs, XQs and, TAs.

BIG OLAF
Jul 9, 2014, 10:05 PM
Not sure what's worse; PSO2's community or PSOw's community....Sheesh...


my ultimate dream was for "westerners" to be IP banned from this game forever. Damn shame it looks like it won't be happening..............yet :P.

Yeah, looks like PSOW's is worse.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 11:35 PM
Yeah, looks like PSOW's is worse.

Honestly, from the claims of racism+hitler comparisons, to Shiyo's bullshit, and far more than that, this community really is shit.

Limitless reading comprehension fails, bigotry, inability to use facts in posts, flat out wrong opinions...

I don't understand how people do this on a forum when posters have all the time they need to read, re-read, comprehend, and understand someone's position before the poster posts a steaming pile of shit. Is essay writing practice dead in public schools?

Freshellent
Jul 9, 2014, 11:43 PM
Then get the fuck out, so the rest of us can get along with our internet lives. All the time you waste posting about how bad we are and yet I still see the same people sticking around. You must like it, then.

This community isn't any better or worse than the next one. I know a lot of you played LoL or WoW. It's awful. The whole net is like this. Either get used to it or get the fuck out.

UnLucky
Jul 9, 2014, 11:58 PM
Everything is fucked
Everybody sucks
Your best bet is to stay away motherfucker
It's just one of those days!

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 9, 2014, 11:59 PM
Then get the fuck out, so the rest of us can get along with our internet lives. All the time you waste posting about how bad we are and yet I still see the same people sticking around. You must like it, then.

Part of it, I like trying to understand what goes on in other people's heads when they post tripe on the internet, and draw a pattern.

Why do they troll?
Why do they have the social skills of donkey?
Why do they fail at basic logic, but have the capacity to play an online game?
What the f**k are public schools doing? (Honestly, I'm pretty sure teachers gave far less of a shit and teach from textbooks these days)

Other than that, I like watching the world burn through seeing the misfits here who will, sadly, integrate into society.


This community isn't any better or worse than the next one. I know a lot of you played LoL or WoW. It's awful. The whole net is like this. Either get used to it or get the fuck out.

I played them both.

Been on both their forums.

LoL is slightly more civil than WoW.

People on FFXIV english forums are generally far more civil, and the posters there hands down outnumber the few hundred here. So... you're very much wrong on "the whole net is like this" end.

UnLucky
Jul 10, 2014, 12:02 AM
I've been several places that don't tolerate shitposting.

I still prefer lax moderation, though.

Evangelion X.XX
Jul 10, 2014, 12:07 AM
Although the community perhaps isn't better than the next one, I still believe that it's no excuse to accept the status of quo of it being a cesspool of "worthless bullshit" or what have you. I think we should always strive for something better; just imagine how PSOW or the internet in general would be like if it wasn't for those who stand for reason, logic, sanity in plane almost devoid of none. I say keep up the good fight against insanity, although it would be prudent for us to always remember dearly that:

“He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself; and if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss will gaze into you.”

--Friedrich Nietzsche.

Kondibon
Jul 10, 2014, 12:09 AM
I actually think it's the opposite. Because the majority of the regulars here is people who are not only passionate enough about the game to play on the japanese servers, but also stick with the game despite it's flaws. That last fact alone should show what you're dealing with.

The result is that when "normal" people come in they either get turned away or just get bored with the game and move on after asking like 2 questions. The only ones that stay are the ones that are used to this kind of thing already.

I'm going to be really frank here, but I partly blame the poor moderation.

Shiyo
Jul 10, 2014, 12:24 AM
Honestly, from the claims of racism+hitler comparisons, to Shiyo's bullshit, and far more than that, this community really is shit.



You still going?

I said that prem gives an advantage, you literally agreed with me, yet you continued to argue simply to >>ARGUE<<.

You literally argued for the sake of arguing, and you're still fucking going, holy shit how bored are you?

You strawmanned every single post, you looked for any part you could say "HEY LOOK YOU'RE WRONG! A FEW BIO WEAPONS ARE BETTER SO IT MUST MEAN THAT BUYABLE SHOP WEAPONS AREN'T ALWAYS THE BEST TEEHEE!" or argue against, simply so you could argue more. Hey look the best dagger in the game is 200k, or you can pray to the gods that it drops from TD or falz. I wonder which option is easier and quicker? Oh I must be lazy for spending $13. Oh hey, look the best wands for a sattk mag TE/HU are all buyable 10 stars! I better go farm 5 different weapons, and get enough drops to 50 element them, then pray I get the element I want, or spend 400k-3m changing the element of every weapon! :) Sure sounds like barely any more effort than simply buying them off shops for 200-400k!


All I was saying was prem gives an advantage, which you agreed with. Then you call me lazy, other people call me names. Guess you're lazy and stupid too, since you agreed with me :)

I was done arguing with you hours ago, but you're still being a complete moron and bringing it up still, trying to start more shit.

Get a fucking hobby.

UnLucky
Jul 10, 2014, 12:37 AM
Don't worry, it's not pay to win if you're lucky!

There are some things money can't buy, but for everything else relevant in the game, there's premium trade.

ShinMaruku
Jul 10, 2014, 01:12 AM
I actually think it's the opposite. Because the majority of the regulars here is people who are not only passionate enough about the game to play on the japanese servers, but also stick with the game despite it's flaws. That last fact alone should show what you're dealing with.

The result is that when "normal" people come in they either get turned away or just get bored with the game and move on after asking like 2 questions. The only ones that stay are the ones that are used to this kind of thing already.

I'm going to be really frank here, but I partly blame the poor moderation.
I agree. I think the mods have let some of the bad behavior run amok now. But no excuse of some of the actions of some here.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 10, 2014, 01:28 AM
You still going?

I said that prem gives an advantage, you literally agreed with me, yet you continued to argue simply to >>ARGUE<<.

You had more than one method to support your argument. I chose to respond to each of them. You bring them up and you expect me not to address them? That's not how this works.


You strawmanned every single post, you looked for any part you could say "HEY LOOK YOU'RE WRONG! A FEW BIO WEAPONS ARE BETTER SO IT MUST MEAN THAT BUYABLE SHOP WEAPONS AREN'T ALWAYS THE BEST TEEHEE!" or argue against, simply so you could argue more. Hey look the best dagger in the game is 200k, or you can pray to the gods that it drops from TD or falz. I wonder which option is easier and quicker? Oh I must be lazy for spending $13. Oh hey, look the best wands for a sattk mag TE/HU are all buyable 10 stars! I better go farm 5 different weapons, and get enough drops to 50 element them, then pray I get the element I want, or spend 400k-3m changing the element of every weapon! :) Sure sounds like barely any more effort than simply buying them off shops for 200-400k!


All I was saying was prem gives an advantage, which you agreed with. Then you call me lazy, other people call me names. Guess you're lazy and stupid too, since you agreed with me :)

I was done arguing with you hours ago, but you're still being a complete moron and bringing it up still, trying to start more shit.

Get a fucking hobby.

Also, you're using the word 'strawman' wrong, but then again, you also spewed words about XQs that you thought are true, so your choice of words being on a roulette wouldn't surprise me at this point.

Here's a list:

Bio weapon grind in general. Your exaggeration was innacurate to say the least.

Getting dozens of 11*s with premium being better than grinding stones for a bio weapon that could very well be the best of that weapon category. I disagreed with you. You insisted you were right just because you get more weapons faster, and easier than bio which may not be as good for your weapon category of choice (see sword, WL, katana to name 3). This is why I said that's being lazy. What else would you call that?

Being at a massive disadvantage for not having premium. About a half dozen people already said that is a gross overstatement. I've already told you Bio weapons are among the best weapons in game, and aren't locked behind premium, and RNG.

You do not know how to use the word strawman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman) right. I never claimed to defeat your point by refuting one thing. I was pointing out what you can't say to support your point because they're wrong.

I agreed that if you can get premium, doing so once to trade in all of your fodder 10+s for passes is an advantage, but bio weapons bridge the gap, and you do not need premium for it. Premium is more of a convenience than anything else. Look at the past few pages. No one else shares your sentiment of 'premium being a massive advantage'. Are you worthless/helpless without premium? No. Work harder.

NoiseHERO
Jul 10, 2014, 01:29 AM
More short bus shenanigans I see!

Jaqlou Swig KING
Jul 10, 2014, 01:32 AM
"Just wow" at how well this thread sums up the English community in general. It even has the token dude who points this out in condescending fashion.

UnLucky
Jul 10, 2014, 01:36 AM
Being at a massive disadvantage for not having premium. About a half dozen people already said that is a gross overstatement. I've already told you Bio weapons are among the best weapons in game, and aren't locked behind premium, and RNG.
It's like your entire argument for premium not being such a big deal is Bio weapons and the last ten floors of XQs.

Both of which haven't been out for the majority of the game's lifetime.

Bios will be outclassed. 12* trading will be a thing, and the game will still be pay to win.

"It's just $20 the once and then you're fine!" Sure. How many F2P games have that as their tagline?


And honestly, with how many 11* passes I have now since trash rares drop all the time, I'd actually rather save XQ passes by just buying a bunch of element fodder instead of farm a whole other set of stones.

Chik'Tikka
Jul 10, 2014, 01:47 AM
More short bus shenanigans I see!

indeed+^_^+ maybe that bus will take a left and go to the landfill soon!

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 10, 2014, 02:01 AM
It's like your entire argument for premium not being such a big deal is Bio weapons and the last ten floors of XQs.

Both of which haven't been out for the majority of the game's lifetime.

Bios will be outclassed. 12* trading will be a thing, and the game will still be pay to win.

"It's just $20 the once and then you're fine!" Sure. How many F2P games have that as their tagline?


And honestly, with how many 11* passes I have now since trash rares drop all the time, I'd actually rather save XQ passes by just buying a bunch of element fodder instead of farm a whole other set of stones.

Well of course I'd talk about how the game is right now.

Also, can we really call this a pay to win right now? Being premium isn't making me worlds stronger than another player, there's no direct pvp...

I'll admit, I will change my tone when 12* trading passes, and more 12*s with unique imba potentials, like orochi come out (no other katana has a potential that strong, obviously). Atm best readily available weapons are within a few % of each other. Hardly enough to say pay to win at this point.

UnLucky
Jul 10, 2014, 02:27 AM
Mostly just stuff like Elysion and Guld Milla which enable totally different playstyles or even builds, but can be a nightmare to find on your own. Or anything really rare with a really high stat requirement. Do you permanently screw up your character which costs money to change just on the off chance that you get something impossible like that? Less of an issue now since limited skill resets are free, but mags are still dumb.

12*s are going to be just as hilarious as 11*s and 10*s were when they first became available for purchase.

Doesn't really matter how easy it is, someone who can beat the whole game naked at lv1 (ignoring the whole level restricted content) can obviously be outperformed by anyone with gear on. Though if anything it's Ping2Win with all the silly stuff you can do with low latency.

I just find it absolutely ridiculous that you can sit on hundreds of millions of meseta without being able to spend any of it on directly improving your character. Even hiring someone else to rush content for you involves a workaround since you can't even drop meseta on the ground let alone anything of value.

LonelyGaruga
Jul 10, 2014, 02:33 AM
All I was saying was prem gives an advantage

All the way back in your first post in this thread.


Not having prem is horrible.

These ideas, while similar, are completely different. The argument is not about the first quote. It's about the second quote.

Is that really so hard to understand?

Shiyo
Jul 10, 2014, 02:37 AM
All the way back in your first post in this thread.



These ideas, while similar, are completely different. The argument is not about the first quote. It's about the second quote.

Is that really so hard to understand?

Sorry I'm too busy getting 4x the FUN per day which translates into many more grind protects to sell or use, many more tickets to sell or use, and the ability to sell anything I find, 300 more storage to store more things to sell, and making 10-100x more meseta per day than someone who is playing purely for free and is stuck making 600k/day.

Oh hey I don't need this 10/11 star unit/weapon anymore, I better sell it on the shops for a few million! Mm, awesome cash. Oh you're a free player? You can't sell it? Your inventory and storage are both full because you only have 200 slots, so you instead have to toss it on the ground? Awww.

My boyfriend doesn't have prem, I have over 10x his meseta at all times, when we play we play together, and I make 10x the amount of money per day as he does simply because I can sell stuff in my shop and he can't.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Jul 10, 2014, 02:39 AM
Mostly just stuff like Elysion and Guld Milla which enable totally different playstyles or even builds, but can be a nightmare to find on your own. Or anything really rare with a really high stat requirement. Do you permanently screw up your character which costs money to change just on the off chance that you get something impossible like that? Less of an issue now since limited skill resets are free, but mags are still dumb.

12*s are going to be just as hilarious as 11*s and 10*s were when they first became available for purchase.

Doesn't really matter how easy it is, someone who can beat the whole game naked at lv1 (ignoring the whole level restricted content) can obviously be outperformed by anyone with gear on. Though if anything it's Ping2Win with all the silly stuff you can do with low latency.

I just find it absolutely ridiculous that you can sit on hundreds of millions of meseta without being able to spend any of it on directly improving your character. Even hiring someone else to rush content for you involves a workaround since you can't even drop meseta on the ground let alone anything of value.

Ping to win. I like that. Honestly, even if you consider TA records some form of pvp, it's more on one-shotting a spawn at the right place at the right time, where ping is a bigger factor than if you were using an orochi or a susano at the time :/

I agree that mags and skill trees are more meaningful forms of pay to win, which does remind me why my AC went to that instead of premium for the most part...


Sorry I'm too busy getting 4x the FUN per day which translates into many more grind protects to sell or use, many more tickets to sell or use, and the ability to sell anything I find, 300 more storage to store more things to sell, and making 10-100x more meseta per day than someone who is playing purely for free and is stuck making 600k/day.

Oh hey I don't need this 10/11 star unit/weapon anymore, I better sell it on the shops for a few million! Mm, awesome cash. Oh you're a free player? You can't sell it? Your inventory and storage are both full because you only have 200 slots, so you instead have to toss it on the ground? Awww.

My boyfriend doesn't have prem, I have over 10x his meseta at all times, when we play we play together, and I make 10x the amount of money per day as he does simply because I can sell stuff in my shop and he can't.

I see the disconnect.

Advantage, yes.
Huge advantage (implying premium is paying to win right now), no.
Being freemium is horrible, no.

Only thing they can't get at all are purchase passes, which have varying value depending category of weapon you like.
There's conveniences and more meseta in premium, but meseta only has value as long as there's something to buy.

This goes right back to the exaggerating thing.

UnLucky
Jul 10, 2014, 03:03 AM
Storage isn't a problem because only recently you can now get OTP storage for another permanent 200 slots, or pay for premium once, fill up your premium storage, and then let it stay in there until you want it even after your premium expires!

No shop does kinda suck since I've had quite a few things worth several millions rot in my bank until I could roll a FUN shop, and by then they were worth peanuts.

But extra points and stamps or whatever is pretty minor. I mean sure it's extra money, but you're paying for it... And it's not like anyone actually buys those cash shop EXP boosters. Why don't you complain about the Premium Drink? (Hint: it's not a substantial bonus)



Really really wish AC shop items were tradeable. Even premium time. The whales would eat that up.

Shiyo
Jul 10, 2014, 03:10 AM
What's OTP and how does it work and how much does it cost?

Prem and shop/room tickets being tradable would actually end up making sega much, much, MUCH more money. Too bad they're not that smart :(

The extra FUN and stuff isn't that big but it all adds up. It's mainly the 10 and 11 star tickets, they are an EXTREMELY scummy and pay to win way to do things. Really disgusting they're still locking 10 stars behind that, I could kind of understand 11, but 10 stars...no, just no.

UnLucky
Jul 10, 2014, 03:16 AM
What will I need to setup a One-Time Password?

Android 1.6+ smartphone or tablet OR iOS (iPhone/iPod) device.
Android: Download SecureOTP at the Play Store
iOS: Download i-SecureOTP at the App Store
A Sega ID Account
So the price of an entire mobile device! Or maybe BlueStacks works, I dunno.

And you gotta do the authenticator thing every time you log in.

http://www.bumped.org/psublog/otp-one-time-password-registration-guide-for-pso2/

Shiyo
Jul 10, 2014, 03:18 AM
I have an Iphone but I'm guessing it requires a japanese apple account.

Meyfei
Jul 10, 2014, 05:43 AM
So how about that first post- and the couple adding to it

UnLucky
Jul 10, 2014, 05:46 AM
What about it?

Zipzo
Jul 10, 2014, 05:57 AM
I have an Iphone but I'm guessing it requires a japanese apple account.

It does not. Just change your accounts region to 日本 temporarily, download the app, then you can change it back.

Flolelan
Jul 10, 2014, 11:51 AM
Well I can't understand why you guys make such a fuss around this whole premium topic. Sure as premium user you reach certain things faster than a free user, however a free user can still achive the same thing sooner or later (depending on your luck).
So be happy that it is not like in most other games that only premium users have acces to specific ingame content (such as items/areas).
However the no trade function for free user sure is anoying but hey who cares since you will always have enough money for upgrading items (at least what i experienced).

+ Since there is no real pvp you also dont need to have the best gear cause it doesen't mater if I deal 100k or 105k dmg (at least in my opinion).

And to the statement which said: "But you don't want to be a bother to the others in your party." I can only say: Why are you a bother when you use lower tier equipment? If you can't dodge your armor gets useless. Sure you deal less dmg but unless its an speedrun it doesn't mater if u need 10min or 12min to finish a boss.

Last but not least: It's a game so keep calm and have fun playing it.

ArataWata
Jul 10, 2014, 11:57 AM
The people paying for the VPN and allowing themselves to get 'exploited' as just as guilty for being impatient.

But people have always sold VPN before and after this whole scandal, so lol, whatever.

BlankM
Jul 10, 2014, 12:12 PM
Jeez this went on for 12 pages!?

Seriously. I think people take the term "Free to play" incredibly literally. Is this game "Pay2win?" Not really. Can you pay to win? Yes, with a BUTTLOAD OF MONEY MAYBE.

But I doubt many who just buy premium even have the money-making strats to convert the 12$ into anything meaningful. Most things are dirt cheap at the moment, and the real rich whales have premium as a convenience more than anything. Its their luck or market ability that gets them money.

I played without premium when I came back and got 40 mil in my first two weeks of playing. That's not amazing but its good enough to buy things I need(Really good units are 9* still. You miss like 5PP by not getting white tail). Its so much easier now to get shop tickets with excubes. Actually more excubes and lack of worthwhile 10*s made just about EVERYTHING easier for non-prems.

Under SEGA's terms the dollar to meseta rate is incredibly low and variable according to your luck. Some knowledge too. People like to complain about luck but PSO2 is honestly a casino skewed in your favor. Any casino that gives you money daily, with 30-40% chances to 4x or 5x your money with proper affixing knowledge(50%+ chance to 2x before soul buff) would go bankrupt.

LonelyGaruga
Jul 10, 2014, 12:55 PM
And to the statement which said: "But you don't want to be a bother to the others in your party."

That was me, though you paraphrase and miss my point.


If you can't dodge your armor gets useless.

I don't get how people treat it like an unstated fact that people with high end equipment are incompetent at actually playing. So what if you have good units? That doesn't make you any worse at dodging than the next person. If you can't dodge, it doesn't matter how good your units are, you suck, and you can't get anything accomplished by being unable to dodge. You're going to die left and right regardless.

A person's equipment has no impact on their skill. It's how they use it. But a good player with good equipment is always at an advantage compared to a person with equal skill and bad equipment. I see too often this concept being used as an excuse. "I'm good enough that my equipment does just fine" and other similar concepts get bandied about far too often without thought. It doesn't matter how good you are now, you can improve on it with better equipment, and to say otherwise is pure laziness.


Sure you deal less dmg but unless its an speedrun it doesn't mater if u need 10min or 12min to finish a boss.

This is another one that I see to no end. Insignificant differences don't matter, you're right. But 2 minutes do, because you're not just running one quest, or fighting one boss. Not doing enough damage can cost you and others ranks or even runs for TD, it can turn Dark Falz Luther into a horribly long fight if the three Mirages fail to get the clock broken, it can prevent you from getting additional One Mores in PSE Bursts, it can result in you being unable to break one of Apos Dorios' pillars in time, or Dark Falz Luther's swords, etc etc.

Damage isn't only important for eliminating a boss in a timely fashion. Hell, 10-12 minutes in itself is an incredibly pathetic time even solo, for any boss that isn't a Dark Falz, let alone with 2-12 people. And even if that was a reasonable time difference, 2 minutes adds up every time you run that boss. If you run it 5 times, you've cost the party 10 minutes with your inefficiency. For every 5 runs, you could have fit in another boss fight, in other words. That adds up, and it would be your fault for not doing as well as you could.

And this isn't just one or two or a handful of people, this is how a significant portion of the English community in PSO2 plays. It's why the Japanese are generally better, they're more considerate of how their failings affect others, and not just themselves, so they have more reason to improve. I've known an English player that tried to vendor an Elysion (this was before 11* selling, which was going to come out in a couple weeks and was known) because trying to decide whether or not to change class to use it was "too stressful". I've partied with three people that deliberately detonated Zondeels on Forest mobs in SHAQs, blissfully unaware that this was a bad idea, and too stupid to stop even after being asked, because they genuinely could not understand what was wrong with what they were doing, even when explained to them.

I see no reason to defend a lack of even the most basic desire to improve, seeing how stupid, inefficient, and useless people can be. People should always be seeking to improve in some form or fashion, because not doing so is a burden to themselves and everyone around them. Especially people that just handwave their lack of drive to progress as being "good enough", which is almost invariably a confirmation that they are exactly the opposite of that.

Friyn
Jul 10, 2014, 01:15 PM
Nice tryhard post m8, go play starcraft.

LonelyGaruga
Jul 10, 2014, 01:20 PM
What's tryhard about what I posted. It can be summed up in a couple sentences.

1) Damage isn't just for killing things x minutes faster
2) Time adds up
3) Skill doesn't negate the usefulness of equipment
4) When you play with other people, your performance affects them

What's tryhard about any of those ideas?

Freshellent
Jul 10, 2014, 01:34 PM
Pretty sure that was just bait.

Alenoir
Jul 10, 2014, 01:35 PM
What's tryhard about any of those ideas?
The off chance that what you said about people with bad equipment dragging down other people's time in an MPA/EQ is exactly how he plays.

Flolelan
Jul 10, 2014, 02:05 PM
ok just to be clear:

- 10-12min was just an example time
- I never said people with good equipment are bad however good equipment doesnt make you good ether. You are right if 2 people have the same skill but different equipment tiers the one with the better/higher one is in advantage, I never said someting against it however most post here implyed that you always need the best equipment to be considered "good" what is just wrong thinking.

now to your arguments:
"I slow others down with bad gear" You are right they need a littlebit more time however if its a party with strangers they just can swap you out when they want to be supper eficinet (like you play this game mostelikely).

"players shoud always play to improve" Basicly yes, but if you just want play to relax/have some fun you shoudnt play with that mindset 24/7 (at least not in pve games).

As for the slow down/mess up eq looser ect if u want to grind it I recomend to go on a low populated channel and play with 12 friends if u want to be superefective.


Friyn you are so right :D (no offence towards LonelyGaruga)


+ then please explain your point i miss

LonelyGaruga
Jul 10, 2014, 02:19 PM
- 10-12min was just an example time

Fair enough then.


- I never said people with good equipment are bad however good equipment doesnt make you good ether. You are right if 2 people have the same skill but different equipment tiers the one with the better/higher one is in advantage, I never said someting against it however most post here implyed that you always need the best equipment to be considered "good" what is just wrong thinking.

I figured there was an unsaid assumption that we were talking about people that already acquired a skill level that could be considered good, so there was no reason to make that distinction.


"I slow others down with bad gear" You are right they need a littlebit more time however if its a party with strangers they just can swap you out when they want to be supper eficinet (like you play this game mostelikely).

Completely the opposite. I never play with randoms. I play exclusively by myself, expecting a couple EQs, unless a person I consider a friend is online, in which case I play with them if possible. It is precisely because of the people I do play with that I believe efficiency is important. If you're friends with someone, it would be inconsiderate to hinder them by slowing them down.


"players shoud always play to improve" Basicly yes, but if you just want play to relax/have some fun you shoudnt play with that mindset 24/7 (at least not in pve games).

I don't see how the two can't be done at the same time.


As for the slow down/mess up eq looser ect if u want to grind it I recomend to go on a low populated channel and play with 12 friends if u want to be superefective.

What. That...doesn't really do anything.


Friyn you are so right :D (no offence towards LonelyGaruga)

I still didn't say anything tryhard, unless people have different definitions of the word. That is to say, wrong definitions.


+ then please explain your point i miss

I did. It was basically the whole rest of the post.

Flolelan
Jul 10, 2014, 02:56 PM
Ok first if you play with 11 others which have the same equipment tier as you do + which you know you have good synergy with does actualy do a lot since you are sure you party only uses 11* tier gear so you wont be in a randrom raid party with players like me which mostly use 10*tier gear. So its sure your party perform at highest possible efficencie (theoretical)

Second you are right improving while playing is fun however you should not play with the thought that you need to improve all the time every time you play

Third i agree with him in the point that you should play competetive games not that you are tryharding all the time (even doe your mindset is pretty simular to tryhard gamers)

and lastly we all shoudn't forget that there are all kind of gamers such as
- casuals (plays rarely and only to have fun)
- regulars (play more often than casuals)
- regulars which set them self a goal and want to achieve it
- regulars which want to achive a goal which was even higher than they originally set them
- tryhards (play only to be better even when they are pretty close to the top)

LonelyGaruga
Jul 10, 2014, 04:19 PM
Ok first if you play with 11 others which have the same equipment tier as you do + which you know you have good synergy with does actualy do a lot since you are sure you party only uses 11* tier gear so you wont be in a randrom raid party with players like me which mostly use 10*tier gear. So its sure your party perform at highest possible efficencie (theoretical)

Yeah, that's pretty heavy on the theoretical. First I would need 11 people on the same tier as me. That's impossible, and I don't know 11 people roughly about my skill level, and even if I did, I'm not a standard to be measured with, because I'm trying to be better than I currently am, and everyone else should be trying to be better than themselves too. So there will always be a higher level of efficiency that can be achieved.

Then we have the problem with 11* being assumed to be always better than 10*. That simply isn't always the case. It doesn't matter what rarity the weapon is, if it performs extremely effectively/the best of any other option in a given situation, it's relevant. While more 11*s than 10*s fit that category, it's still an important distinction to make. This isn't considering units, affixes, and skill trees, either, the last one being significantly more important than any difference between a 10* and 11* weapon, if one person's was atrocious and another one's was superb.

Moving on from that assumption, all of these people have to be online at the same time, willing to group together for whatever run is happening, and not disconnect in that time frame. OK great. How often is that going to happen?

Never. Not that it would be important if it did happen, though. The whole thing is irrelevant to an efficient run.


Second you are right improving while playing is fun however you should not play with the thought that you need to improve all the time every time you play

I don't see how improvement doesn't naturally come with playing the game, as long as you don't autopilot.


Third i agree with him in the point that you should play competetive games not that you are tryharding all the time

That still doesn't make any sense, since it assumes that PSO2 has no compatibility at all to play competitively. Which isn't true. Not to mention, I'm playing PSO2 because I'm playing with friends, not because I'm looking for a competitive game, so telling me to play something else doesn't make sense. Friends of mine are playing PSO2, so I'm playing PSO2. And enjoying it thoroughly. Or was (DDoS).


and lastly we all shoudn't forget that there are all kind of gamers such as
- casuals (plays rarely and only to have fun)
- regulars (play more often than casuals)
- regulars which set them self a goal and want to achieve it
- regulars which want to achive a goal which was even higher than they originally set them
- tryhards (play only to be better even when they are pretty close to the top)

1) I don't see your point. The problem lies when tiers mingle, and the lower tiers don't give a damn about how awful they make the higher tier people's runs.
2) That isn't what a tryhard is.

IndignationSWF
Jul 10, 2014, 05:04 PM
Okay, this has taken a turn for the purposefully argumentative.
In the end what does it matter? If someone's playing at a more relaxed pace and it's interfering with your enjoyment, don't play with them again. I've had more than my fair share of level 10's or lower jumping into Dark Falz Elder only to get slaughtered outright less than a minute in so I know how frustrating it can be at times. but, by the same token though a little patience and an explanation can turn deadweight into at least a semi-productive player. Not everyone understands the rules and etiquette involved in raids and such.

Meyfei
Jul 10, 2014, 05:09 PM
Not everyone understands the rules and etiquette involved in raids and such.

No one does. Not at first anyway. We all have to learn- Funny how those once in the position tend to forget.

LonelyGaruga
Jul 10, 2014, 05:15 PM
I've had more than my fair share of level 10's or lower jumping into Dark Falz Elder only to get slaughtered outright less than a minute in so I know how frustrating it can be at times. but, by the same token though a little patience and an explanation can turn deadweight into at least a semi-productive player. Not everyone understands the rules and etiquette involved in raids and such.

Of course. But the issue comes from what to do with people who don't care. If they want to improve, then that's good, it isn't a problem, they're going to improve, and it's good that they got an explanation. But if they don't care about improving, they aren't going to listen to you and will continue to obliviously burden others around them.

Shiyo
Jul 10, 2014, 05:20 PM
Lonelygaruga you need to find a hobby or something to do in your free time, arguing with everyone on a forum just for the sake of arguing and starting arguments over any little thing you can isn't a good way to spend your free time.

IndignationSWF
Jul 10, 2014, 05:25 PM
Of course. But the issue comes from what to do with people who don't care. If they want to improve, then that's good, it isn't a problem, they're going to improve, and it's good that they got an explanation. But if they don't care about improving, they aren't going to listen to you and will continue to obliviously burden others around them.

But that's not limited to PSO2, or hell Gaming as a whole. That's a problem with our culture in general, especially this latest generation that was raised by technology with the feeling of entitlement. Surely you've run into the type out in the real world too.

Then comes the question; How do we deal with them? The only real answer is also the simplest, Don't. If someone jumps into your run and is obviously not trying and doesn't wish to learn, kick them. Or more universally just password everything. You can't bother yourself with every person willing to fuck over everyone else, because you'll end up with grey hair before you're 30.

I myself choose not to dwell on them because in the end, they're just one Koi in the pond. And a vast majority of those I play with are fun, professional, and respectful.

Flolelan
Jul 10, 2014, 06:10 PM
ok first you misunderstood something from my post:

1st I used the word tier to seperate gear/items and not skill of players.
2nd I never said you should quit nor did i say you play pso2 cause of competetive (even doe there is no real "competetive" in my opinion (depending what you understand as competetive)). I meant to say that you would do good with that mentality in heavy competetive games (such as mobas or fast pased strategy games). Its an complimet so to say. But lets drop that point since it will lead us nowhere.
3rd synergie is not skill. It means how good you play as a group.
4th Never ment to say 11* is ALWAYS better
5th refering to your first post to me: I never said im to lazy to grind 11* to improve performance. I said I can use lower tier gear and still be efective since the first argument was about: "You need high-end gear to be good" (not your posts)


I agree that it is hard to find 11 player to do my suggestion however it is not that absurd depending on howmuch firends/gamingpals you have which also play this game.


And lastly in general you a right with playtime comes skill. However I know enough people which nomater how long they play a game, their skill doesnt increase in an significant way.