Compiled rebalance changes for EP3

[Maenara]

I thought I should make a topic for this so people can get all the information from a single post and understand it better. Let me know if I missed anything.

General:
•105 different Photon Arts buffed(Out of 120 that exist, which 15 that aren't buffed aren't known yet).
•28 different technics buffed, out of 43 that exist.
•Cosmos Breaker nerfed.
•Satellite Cannon nerfed.
•Ilgrants nerfed.
•Ilbarta nerfed.
•Ilmegid nerfed.
•All stances gain infinite duration, and activate at the same speed as Wand Lovers.
•Just Reversal no longer required SP to unlock for any class.
•Dex up 1 added to all classes that didn't have it originally.
•Step Attack no longer requires SP to unlock for any class that has it.
•Various skills require less SP to receive maximum effects.

Hunter:
•New skill tree layout:
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/jGfUyoZ.jpg[/spoiler-box]
•Guard Stance buffed, loses negative effects.
•Iron Will buffed, gives +5 seconds of invincibility time. Combined with Never Give Up, this should be 10 seconds of invincibility.
•Guard, Just Guard, and Just Counter no longer require SP to unlock, are now default skills.
•Fury Stance multiplier nerfed from 1.25x to 1.2x.
•Fury Stance Combo Up multiplier nerfed from 1.2x to 1.1x.
•Fury Stance Up 1 and 2 become max level 5. Their effects are not adjusted for the new max level, the effects at level 5 will be the same as level 5 is now.
•Speed of all HU normal attacks and PAs improved.
•Speed of HU recovery frames improved.
•Range of HU PAs and attacks improved.
•29 Hunter PAs buffed.

New Hunter skills:
•Healing Guard: A successful Just Guard restores 5% of maximum HP.
•War Braver: After using War Cry, increase damage and PP based on the number of enemies targeting you. Hunter main class only.

Fighter:
•New skill tree layout:
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/JdxnVnD.png[/spoiler-box]
•Brave Stance buffed. 1.2x damage -> 1.25x damage. Negative effects removed.
•Wise Stance buffed. 1.3x damage -> 1.35x damage. Negative effects removed.
•Chase Advance nerfed. 1.4x damage -> 1.25x damage.
•Deadline Slayer buffed, 100 Atk up -> 150 Atk up.
•Adrenaline now requires only 1 SP to reach maximum effect.
•Speed of all FI PAs and normal attacks improved(Excluding Knuckles).
•27 FI PAs buffed.
•Reduced altitude restrictions, improving Twin Daggers.

New Fighter skills:
•Tech Arts JA Bonus: Increase damage when using different PAs and technics though Just Attacks. 1.05x damage at level 1.
•Limit Break: Greatly increase S-Atk while greatly reducing maximum HP. Reduces HP to 25% and increases damage by 4% at level 1. Fighter main class only.

Ranger:
•New skill tree layout:
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/8zf5P8q.jpg[/spoiler-box]
•Weak Bullet nerfed. 3x damage -> 2.55x damage.
•Embedding a weak bullet into a certain part of an enemy allows that part to be auto targeted even if that part is usually only manually targetable. Example: Rockbear's face. Apos Dorios' core.
•Weak Hit Advance buffed, 1.25x damage -> 1.35x damage.
•Trap Search no longer requires SP to unlock, is now a default class skill.
•Upper Trap, Poison Trap, Stun Grenades, Upper Trap Custom, and Poison Trap Custom all require only 1 SP to reach maximum effect.
•Upper Trap, Stun Grenade, Poison Trap, and Gravity Bomb become active skills - Trap skills no longer use trap items.
•Mirage Shot, Panic Shot, and Bind Bullet require 5 SP to reach maximum effect.
•While standing on the ground, launching speed of Launcher attacks is highly increased.
•16 RA PAs buffed.

New Ranger skills:
•Gravity Bomb: Cross between Stun Grenades and Zondeel, collects enemies into a single point. Qualifies for the same buffs that Stun Grenade receives.
•Bullet Keep: Switching weapons will not remove special bullets like Weak Bullet and Bind Bullet.Unknown if it applies to Launchers. Unknown if PP Save Bullet and Power Bullet apply after weapon switch. Ranger main class only.

Gunner:
•New skill tree layout:
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/ebA0DD6.png[/spoiler-box]
•S Roll JA Bonus nerfed, 2x damage -> 1.6x damage.
•Showtime buff. 30 second duration -> 45 second duration. Hate gain buffed.
•Hightime buff, 1.1x damage -> 1.2x damage.
•8 Twin Machine Gun PAs buffed.

New Gunner skills:
•Twice Chain: Double the speed at which your chain accumulates.
•Chain Finish Bonus: Reduce the cooldown of Chain Trigger based on the chain number when you use Chain Finish.

Force:
•New skill tree layout:
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/SdWk4Ej.jpg[/spoiler-box]
•Photon Flare buffed. Duration 30 seconds -> 45 seconds. Cooldown 120 seconds -> 100 seconds. HP reduction removed.
•Cooldown reduced for Freeze Ignition.
•Photon Flare Afterburst requires 1 SP to reach maximum effect.

New Force skill:
•Charge Escape: Continue charging techniques during Mirage Escape. Force main class only.

Techer:
•New skill tree layout:
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/yaQmw8N.jpg[/spoiler-box]
•Extend Assist no longer requires SP to unlock. Is now a default class skill at max effect.
•Territory Burst buffed. Requires 1 SP to unlock and becomes completely passive.
•Wand Lovers buffed. Is treated like a stance and qualifies for a stance buffs mentioned earlier. Strike and Tech Explosion 1.35x damage -> 1.4x damage.
•Shifta Critical buffed. 1.15x critical chance -> 1.2x critical chance.
•Rare Mastery Techer buffed. Increases S-Atk as well as T-Atk.
•Super Treatment now requires 1 SP to reach maximum effect.

New Techer skills:
•Shifta Strike: Shifta buff increases all damage by 2% per level. Appears to be +10% at maximum. Techer main class only.
•Deband Toughness: Deband Buff increases maximum HP by a percentage of maximum HP. Appears to be +25% at maximum, 1000 HP becomes 1250, etc.. Techer main class only.

Braver:
•New skill tree layout:
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/bhaFAOZ.jpg[/spoiler-box]
•Average Stance buffed. 1.1x damage -> 1.15x damage.
•Weak Stance buffed. 1.3x damage -> 1.35x damage. Demerit reduced from 0.9x damage -> 0.95x damage.
•Rapid Shoot Up 2 buffed. +100 R-atk -> +150 R-Atk. Does NOT apply to Rapid Shoot Up 1, only 2.
•14 BR PAs buffed.

New Braver skills:
•Charge Shot Up: Increase the speed and power of Bullet Bow charged normal attacks. Increases damage by 3% and speed by 10% at level 1.
•Attack Advance: Increase the power of normal attacks. Increases damage 10% at level 1.

[Shinamori]

I have a feeling Fi/Hu or even Fi/Bo is gonna be deadly. Especially with Symphonic Dive.

[obsexed]

time to go super saiyan with that new limit break skill

[Gardios]

Buffing almost every single PA has me worried. Skill tree rebalance makes me really happy though.

[The Walrus]

Oh my god Healing Guard this is exactly what I wanted :D
Now give me something like it for every class Sega :I

[tehfusion]

•Brave Stance buffed. 1.15x damage -> 1.25x damage. Negative effects removed.
•Wise Stance buffed. 1.25x damage -> 1.35x damage. Negative effects removed.
Brave Stance currently gives 1.2x damage, not 1.15x damage. Wise Stance currently gives 1.3x damage, not 1.25x damage.

Do we know yet if those changes are only to the basic stance skills, or if they'll apply to the Stance Up skills as well?


•Shifta Strike: Shifta buff increases all damage by a certain percentage. Percentages aren't currently known. Increases final damage, not stats, unlike normal Shifta.
It can be seen in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoVmUY-TNOM) at 5:02 that it gives +2% damage at level 1. I expect that it'll probably be +2% per level, for a total of +10% at level 5 — but then again, with how Deband Toughness changes from level 1 to level 5, maybe Shifta Strike will end up giving more than +10% at the level 5?


•Deband Toughness: Deband Buff increases maximum HP. At maximum, it adds 204 max HP.
It can be seen in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoVmUY-TNOM) at 5:13 that it gives +10% HP at level 1. The video then goes on to show it increasing HP from 814 to 1018, so it seems that it'll be +25% HP at level 5.

[Scale of Judgment]

Bullet Save, Bullet Save, Bullet Save!

[UnLucky]

I'm thinking the "105 PAs buffed" will be like Ranger's update, where everything gets linear bonuses all throughout instead of only at lv16, along with the usual rebalancing due to usage statistics and a keen eye.

Although Ranger's PAs are also included in that, so heh


Brave Stance currently gives 1.2x damage, not 1.15x damage. Wise Stance currently gives 1.3x damage, not 1.25x damage.
Brave/Wise are those values at lv5

And High Time is 1.15x at lv5, but 1.1x at lv1

edit: Actually the slides do show Brave at 120% and Wise at 130%, though High Time is shown at 110%

[Maenara]

Brave Stance currently gives 1.2x damage, not 1.15x damage. Wise Stance currently gives 1.3x damage, not 1.25x damage.

Do we know yet if those changes are only to the basic stance skills, or if they'll apply to the Stance Up skills as well?


It can be seen in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoVmUY-TNOM) at 5:02 that it gives +2% damage at level 1. I expect that it'll probably be +2% per level, for a total of +10% at level 5 — but then again, with how Deband Toughness changes from level 1 to level 5, maybe Shifta Strike will end up giving more than +10% at the level 5?


It can be seen in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoVmUY-TNOM) at 5:13 that it gives +10% HP at level 1. The video then goes on to show it increasing HP from 814 to 1018, so it seems that it'll be +25% HP at level 5.

Thanks! Updated main post.

[Bellion]

•Embedding a weak bullet into a certain part of an enemy allows that part to be auto targeted even if that part is usually only manually targetable. Example: Rockbear's face.

Huh, looked like he was able to lock onto the Rockbear's face even before WB was applied and still able to after WB wore off.

[Radical Dreamer]

I'm happy with almost all of the changes, but I really wish they had reworked some more of the old skills (Aerial Advance, Crazy Beat/Heart, etc). Guess I'll just have to wait another two years...

Also, reeeeeally hoping any changes made to Gunslash PAs are more than just little number tweaks. Gimme some range, dammit.

[Maenara]

Any idea what Tech Arts JA Bonus values will be like?

[Daiyousei]

I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but the green skills are unlocked by default, saving you SP

Between them includes Just Reversal and Step Attack now.

[Zyrusticae]

Buffing almost every single PA has me worried. Skill tree rebalance makes me really happy though.
Considering they're nerfing the fuck out of Fury Stance and S-Roll Ja Up, in all likelihood the overall effect is going to be a decrease in damage output across the board.

Fo/Te are getting buffs too, but the most powerful techs (especially ilmegid) are getting nerfs to compensate, and Fo REALLY needed the buff after the power creep went into full effect.

[zerog40]

lucky that you guys get to keep playing pso 2 *sniff*

[The Walrus]

Just use a vpn or the AWS thing, gosh :/

[ArcaneTechs]

debuff Fury Stance to get people to stop using HU as a sub and as a Main hence the PA buff's, people will probably still sub it though. good stuff with this balancing, especially TE

[gigawuts]

just guard is free

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9edyqSPIb1r0hqyw.jpg

[spoiler-box]well shit they got it right[/spoiler-box]

[Stealthcmc1974]

Anyone gonna actually use traps now since they demolished the amount of SP needed for them? or still just weak bullet with standing snipe skills?

[tehfusion]

Any idea what Tech Arts JA Bonus values will be like?

It can be seen in the video (http://youtu.be/VoVmUY-TNOM) at 1:31 that it gives +5% damage at level 1.


Fo/Te are getting buffs too, but the most powerful techs (especially ilmegid) are getting nerfs to compensate, and Fo REALLY needed the buff after the power creep went into full effect.

As a wind Techer, I just want to see Gizan and Nazan become useful.

[Sizustar]

Considering they're nerfing the fuck out of Fury Stance and S-Roll Ja Up, in all likelihood the overall effect is going to be a decrease in damage output across the board.

Fo/Te are getting buffs too, but the most powerful techs (especially ilmegid) are getting nerfs to compensate, and Fo REALLY needed the buff after the power creep went into full effect.

Which is good, because currently, Il Megid is out damaging elemental spells that the enemy are supposed to be weak to, even with 50% element+Elemental conversion.

[LonelyGaruga]

50% element and Elemental Conversion give the same buff to Ilmegid that it would everything else, though. It doesn't need to match the enemy's weakness to apply the buff.

[SakoHaruo]

Which is good, because currently, Il Megid is out damaging elemental spells that the enemy are supposed to be weak to, even with 50% element+Elemental conversion.

And they say it's not broken. Shame on you, Force players.

The moment I saw Megid complete a circle around the Lillipa bowl I knew it was broken. It can also go across/through areas the player can't reach. Broken.

[Maenara]

It can be seen in the video (http://youtu.be/VoVmUY-TNOM) at 1:31 that it gives +5% damage at level 1.



As a wind Techer, I just want to see Gizan and Nazan become useful.

What's its max level?

Also yes, Gizan is worthless right now. Please buff.

[UnLucky]

Anyone gonna actually use traps now since they demolished the amount of SP needed for them? or still just weak bullet with standing snipe skills?

WHA = 20SP
SS = 20SP
WB = 10SP
ShSh+FH = 10SP
Dex+Rare+WBKeep = 5SP

That's 65 total.

Then your choice of KB for 10SP, PP Save for 13-15SP, R-Atk Up for 10SP, or Tool Mastery for 10SP

So you have 2-5SP free for traps, or WHBB

[Stealthcmc1974]

WHA = 20SP
SS = 20SP
WB = 10SP
ShSh+FH = 10SP
Dex+Rare+WBKeep = 5SP

That's 65 total.

Then your choice of KB for 10SP, PP Save for 13-15SP, R-Atk Up for 10SP, or Tool Mastery for 10SP

So you have 2-5SP free for traps, or WHBB

I don't use Rare, so I'll add one. That remaining 6 gets me Stun Grenade, Gravity Bomb, Upper and Poison Traps, along with their upgrades. I want to try it mainly because you can now with leftover points considering I still have all the weak bullet stuff. And I don't use First Hit, so I'll put that over with WHBB. Other than that, I think I'm good.

[Edson Drake]

This is what happens when someone that actually plays the game is put on charge for balancing. Bravo.

I just find interesting that many of the changes were suggested in here and in some other places, so I wonder if all of this came from his mind or from feedback from players.

[tehfusion]

What's its max level?

Tech Arts JA Bonus goes up to level 5. So if it's +5% per level, then it'll end up at +25% — but that's just an assumption. Maybe that would be too good. They only showed level 1, so it could actually increase by different amounts after level 1.

I went ahead and looked at some of the other skills shown in the video. Here's what I have so far:

War Brave (Hunter) goes up to level 5, and it gives +1% damage at level 1. The rest of its stats are hard for me to read as the video is blurry, but maybe it's saying something like +5% damage per enemy, +3 PP, and +15 PP per enemy? I took a screenshot (http://imgur.com/n6LUoAp), so maybe someone else can take a look at it?

Healing Guard (Hunter) only has a single level, where it restores 5% of your maximum HP every time you Just Guard.

Tech Arts JA Bonus (Fighter) goes up to level 5, and it gives +5% damage at level 1.

Limit Break (Fighter) goes up to level 10, and it reduces maximum HP to 25% at level 1. The rest of its stats are hard for me to read as the video is blurry, but maybe it's saying something like a 10 second duration, 60 second cooldown, and +4% damage? I took a screenshot (http://imgur.com/D6nCP75), so maybe someone else can take a look at it?

Attack Advance (Braver) goes up to level 5, and it gives +10% damage at level 1.

Charge Shot (Braver) goes up to level 5, and it gives +3% damage at level 1, and maybe +10% speed?

Gravity Bomb (Ranger) only has a single level, where it has 100% damage and a 15 second cooldown.

Shifta Strike (Techer) goes up to level 5, and it gives +2% damage at level 1.

Deband Toughness (Techer) goes up to level 5, and it increases maximum HP by +10% at level 1 and by +25% at level 5.

All the other new skills (Bullet Keep, Twice Chain, Chain Finish Bonus, and Charge Escape) only have a single level, and there doesn't seem to be any additional information about them shown that isn't already in the original post.

Out of the existing skills, Adrenaline (Fighter) no longer goes up to level 5, and instead only has a single level. I assume it will still give the same effect as the current level 5 Adrenaline, though.

[D-Inferno]

"Fury Stance Up 1 and 2 become max level 5. Their effects are not adjusted for the new max level, the effects at level 5 will be the same as level 5 is now."

Do we know for certain if they are only 5%, or are they still 10%?

[TehblackUchiha]

Brave stance + halfline slayer + Deadline slayer + Limit break (only to reduce hp) + flame visit (14% brave stance latent) = the shit?!?!

[Maenara]

Updated OP based on info from tehfusion.

[ShadowDragon28]

Am I the only player whom mains Hunter that is not happy with some nerfs to HU's skills. *sigh*

[UnLucky]

Brave stance + halfline slayer + Deadline slayer + Limit break (only to reduce hp) + flame visit (14% brave stance latent) = the shit?!?!
If it works like Photon Flare or PP Convert, you still have your old HP value. You just end up with something like 1000/250 HP, though if you heal it drops you down to your new maximum. That's why you can take damage and not notice a change until after the skill (or Injury) wears off.

Not sure if being at 250/250 would count for Half/Deadline, since technically you have full health. Hopefully it's determined based on your old max HP, but then how would it stack with the Deband buff?

[Maenara]

Brave stance + halfline slayer + Deadline slayer + Limit break (only to reduce hp) + flame visit (14% brave stance latent) = the shit?!?!

Brave + Brave Up + Chase + Chase Up + WHA 1 and 2 + SS 1 and 2 + First Hit + Flame Visit gives me 612% damage.

[tehfusion]

The video shows Limit Break dropping the character from 1269/1269 HP to 317/1269 HP.

[Maenara]

Brave + Brave Up + Chase + Chase Up + WHA 1 and 2 + SS 1 and 2 + First Hit + Flame Visit gives me 612% damage.

With Weakbullet this is 1561% damage.

[UnLucky]

The video shows Limit Break dropping the character from 1269/1269 HP to 317/1269 HP.

That's purely cosmetic. Exactly like PF, PPC, or Injury, you can seemingly take less damage than the number displayed since it first takes it from the HP you "lost" from the skill or SE.

[Sizustar]

This is what happens when someone that actually plays the game is put on charge for balancing. Bravo.

I just find interesting that many of the changes were suggested in here and in some other places, so I wonder if all of this came from his mind or from feedback from players.

Both.
He actually explains his thought process and how he balance it through the slide.
He first list what the origional concept of the job is supposed to do, and then he plays the job himself, and go through player comment, to see if it meets the origional concept, and then tweak it.
He doesn't want ONE BUILD for all, and also don't want player to only do 1 area, and skip all the area, which is why he's making TACO a weekly quest.

Hu - Able to tank and deal out damage, and help teamate by drawing enemy hate toward them. - Improved atk speed, recovery frame
Fi - Pure damage, sacrafice Speed and agility for Firepower ( Shunka was outshining it, and no one was really using it, it's supposed to be the highest damage Melee class)
Br - Hi Speed combat that can be melee or range(So he buffed the bow skill this time alot, since Katana, he feel the last few change has made player use more then Shunka)
Ra = Able to support and control the battle from range(No longer WB dispenser)
Gu - Instantly deal a high damage(Chain)
Fo - Glass cannon, able to deal high damage through specialized elemental spell against enemy.(So player will no longer just use Il Megid, Il Barta, which out damage 50% Elemental weapon with Elemental conversion on enemy weak to that element)
Te - Support fighter - He felt that wand wasn't dealing enough damage, and that the Buff wasn't really that easy to see, and it takes too many skill point to even make a supprt TE.
Bu - A highly agi based supporting caster spell using class.

[Zyrusticae]

Am I the only player whom mains Hunter that is not happy with some nerfs to HU's skills. *sigh*
The base buffs to PAs and the speed buffs across the board (faster recovery, faster attacks, faster run speed, etc.) all outweigh the Fury Stance nerf and then some.

ESPECIALLY the animation tweaks. We have no idea just how much they've actually changed things, but this has the potential to completely change the way Hunters play.

[ShadowDragon28]

I JUST want to play lvl 70/70 HU/FI and not feel have to use Over End 10~15+ times just to kill ONE lvl 65 enemy...

[Sizustar]

The base buffs to PAs and the speed buffs across the board (faster recovery, faster attacks, faster run speed, etc.) all outweigh the Fury Stance nerf and then some.

ESPECIALLY the animation tweaks. We have no idea just how much they've actually changed things, but this has the potential to completely change the way Hunters play.

You can see some of it in the short clip here


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrFMTFmIIE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrFMTFmIIE

[Zyrusticae]

Nova Strike doing 5.5k damage per hit, from a Hunter with 1162 HP...

The future is scary.

[Xaelouse]

HU is looking to be a much stronger class in TD
I'm much more curious to how sacred skewer/kaiser rise are being handled. They can play a ranged game too if they wanted

[Sizustar]

Nova Strike doing 5.5k damage per hit, from a Hunter with 1162 HP...

The future is scary.

And the gunner reaching 100 chain solo.

[TehblackUchiha]

The only way to know if it is counted as 25% is to just wait for ep3 to come out. It would suck if it only counted as 100% because then halfline and deadline would not stack.


I JUST want to play lvl 70/70 HU/FI and not feel have to use Over End 10~15+ times just to kill ONE lvl 65 enemy...

Is ride slasher 16 that underrated?

[Shiyo]

I JUST want to play lvl 70/70 HU/FI and not feel have to use Over End 10~15+ times just to kill ONE lvl 65 enemy...

Are you using your skill points? Using a +0 1 star sword? My overend 1 shot pretty much every level 70 normal monster and I'm using my TE/HU's darker sword(200 less sattk than a good 11 star HU sword) and my FI sub is only 50.

[ReverseSeraf]

[list] War Brave (Hunter) goes up to level 5, and it gives +1% damage at level 1. The rest of its stats are hard for me to read as the video is blurry, but maybe it's saying something like +5% damage per enemy, +3 PP, and +15 PP per enemy? I took a screenshot (http://imgur.com/n6LUoAp), so maybe someone else can take a look at it?

Gravity Bomb (Ranger) only has a single level, where it has 100% damage and a 15 second cooldown.

War Cry (procing War Brave) -> Gravity Bomb -> Cluster Bullet / Cosmos Break (powered by a saved Weak Bullet) = YESSSSS

[Rakurai]

I believe that the values listed for War Brave are power gain per enemy hit, max power gain, PP gain per enemy hit, and max PP gain in that order.

Wasn't expecting Gravity Bomb to have such a generous cooldown, either.

[Melodys]

A bit unrelated to all the balance changes but since one of my chars is using Gu/Hu and it being nerfed to the ground after this update, I was thinking of changing to Bo/Hu or Bo/Fo or Te. There are some things that I need to clarify:

"Elemental Stance: Hit the elemental weakness." Does this work like weak stance? Seems a bit vague to me

"Switch Strike: Switches the Jet Boots to striking-ability." Does this change jet boots from t-atk to s-atk?

Currently leaning more towards Bo/Fo or Te though since the char already has a pure t-atk mag built. Just need to make the units. Also jet boots can come in handy for TD maybe with using II megid to attract attention and then dropping an II foie on the helpless Goldras below .

[Shiyo]

The only bad part about these changes is I have no motivation to play the game until EP3 starts :(

Someone give me a time machine, please.

[Rien]

Tech Arts JA Bonus goes up to level 5. So if it's +5% per level, then it'll end up at +25% — but that's just an assumption. Maybe that would be too good. They only showed level 1, so it could actually increase by different amounts after level 1.

I went ahead and looked at some of the other skills shown in the video. Here's what I have so far:

War Brave (Hunter) goes up to level 5, and it gives +1% damage at level 1. The rest of its stats are hard for me to read as the video is blurry, but maybe it's saying something like +5% damage per enemy, +3 PP, and +15 PP per enemy? I took a screenshot (http://imgur.com/n6LUoAp), so maybe someone else can take a look at it?

Healing Guard (Hunter) only has a single level, where it restores 5% of your maximum HP every time you Just Guard.

Tech Arts JA Bonus (Fighter) goes up to level 5, and it gives +5% damage at level 1.

Limit Break (Fighter) goes up to level 10, and it reduces maximum HP to 25% at level 1. The rest of its stats are hard for me to read as the video is blurry, but maybe it's saying something like a 10 second duration, 60 second cooldown, and +4% damage? I took a screenshot (http://imgur.com/D6nCP75), so maybe someone else can take a look at it?

Attack Advance (Braver) goes up to level 5, and it gives +10% damage at level 1.

Charge Shot (Braver) goes up to level 5, and it gives +3% damage at level 1, and maybe +10% speed?

Gravity Bomb (Ranger) only has a single level, where it has 100% damage and a 15 second cooldown.

Shifta Strike (Techer) goes up to level 5, and it gives +2% damage at level 1.

Deband Toughness (Techer) goes up to level 5, and it increases maximum HP by +10% at level 1 and by +25% at level 5.

All the other new skills (Bullet Keep, Twice Chain, Chain Finish Bonus, and Charge Escape) only have a single level, and there doesn't seem to be any additional information about them shown that isn't already in the original post.

Out of the existing skills, Adrenaline (Fighter) no longer goes up to level 5, and instead only has a single level. I assume it will still give the same effect as the current level 5 Adrenaline, though.


Yer screenshots:

War Brave:
1% damage per enemy, capped at 5%
+3 PP REGEN per enemy, capped at +15

Regen is probably how Techer's PP restore rate works. Because if that's PP convert someone's gon be sonic arrowing the living shit out of everything

Limit Break stats in order:
10s duration
60s recast
4% damage
25% max hp

[ReverseSeraf]

A bit unrelated to all the balance changes but since one of my chars is using Gu/Hu and it being nerfed to the ground after this update, I was thinking of changing to Bo/Hu or Bo/Fo or Te. There are some things that I need to clarify:

"Elemental Stance: Hit the elemental weakness." Does this work like weak stance? Seems a bit vague to me

"Switch Strike: Switches the Jet Boots to striking-ability." Does this change jet boots from t-atk to s-atk?

Currently leaning more towards Bo/Fo or Te though since the char already has a pure t-atk mag built. Just need to make the units. Also jet boots can come in handy for TD maybe with using II megid to attract attention and then dropping an II foie on the helpless Goldras below .

Not entirely sure about Elemental Stance, but all the Bouncer vids I've seen seem to point towards that.

As for Switch Strike, it makes Jet Boots into striking-type weapons. Has nothing to do with S-ATK or T-ATK (although Jet Boots will still be powered through T-ATK)

[Rien]

Switch strike is the reason Jet Boots have S-atk stats as well as T-atk.

[ReverseSeraf]

Switch strike is the reason Jet Boots have S-atk stats as well as T-atk.

Not quite so.

S-ATK can have some impact in the damage of Jet Boots, but T-ATK will be the main stat contributing to damage regardless of whether it's casting or striking. It's the same reason some TMGs have S-ATK in them (like Heretically), and why Te/Hu is a thing (T-ATK is main stat, but their attacks are striking-based)

Or that's what I've been taught about a month ago. Maybe someone else can clarify this a bit more.

[Rien]

Sakai said "There's a special reason why Jet Boots also have striking attack stats" when he first introduced Bouncers.

I mean if this isn't why then tell me what is

[ZER0 DX]

Well this just made my day. Fi/Bo or Bo/Fi is going to be quite an interesting class combination to experiment with. I probably won't have much use for Hunter anymore though, especially if we get more set PA weapons, but I'm not complaining. I can finally use a class combination that has access to Twin Sabers and Double Sabers which is all I ever really wanted out of this game. The new Fighter skill tree is just icing on the cake.

[Ciel~Homura]

What in the world are these useless skill for ?

New Braver skills:
•Charge Shot Up: Increase the speed and power of Bullet Bow charged normal attacks. Increases damage by 3% and speed by 10% at level 1.
•Attack Advance: Increase the power of normal attacks. Increases damage 10% at level 1.

Oh wait... GU roll arts also count as normal attack!! Gu / Br might work pretty good since at LV1 Attack advance increase 10% of normal attacks damage *__* (not to mention it doesn't kill the chain)

Average S Lv10 1.15x + Average S up Lv10 1.10x + S-Roll Up Lv5 2x + S-Roll Arts Lv5 3x + High time 1.2x + Attack advance Lv1 1x , cost 10pp (but you re-gain some pp back anyway unlinke using PA)

" IF " Attack Advance Lv5 increase the damage by 50% it might be somewhat useful.

Now i just wonder about...
" Healing Guard: A successful Just Guard restores 5% of maximum HP " :: will this work with different weapons too ? , not only greatsword or it will just become a waste. xD

[Sanguine2009]

attack advance + the stance buffs might make te/br worth considering over te/fi or te/hu at least. its 10% at lv 1 so probably 20-30% at lv5

[suzaku0zero0]

In all the new skill layout, at lvl 70 you have only 70 sp,
but right now at lvl 70 we have 80 sp.... was there an announcement that they will get rid of the 10 sp from co?

[Kondibon]

In all the new skill layout, at lvl 70 you have only 70 sp,
but right now at lvl 70 we have 80 sp.... was there an announcement that they will get rid of the 10 sp from co?The characters used in the preview were probably just bumped up to 70 without doing the COs. I doubt they'd get rid of them.

[musicmf]

So looking at it quick approximations (some skills don't boost some classes, too lazy to make them completely separate; so probably is slightly off but it's a good general look I think?);

Episode 2 Modifiers:
[SPOILER-BOX]HU/FI or FI/HU (Fury/Brave) = 509% (1527% w/ WB)
HU/BR or BR/HU (Fury/Average) = 305% (916% w/ WB)

FI/BR or BR/FI (Brave/Average) = 322% (967% w/ WB)

RA/HU (Fury) = 479% (14373% w/ WB)
RA/BR (Average) = 313% (941% w/ WB)
RA/BR (Weak) = 354% (1063% w/ WB)

GU/HU (Fury) = 613% (1840% w/ WB)
GU/RA = 495% (1487% w/ WB)

FO/TE or TE/FO = 331% (993% w/ WB)
FO/BR (Weak) = 301% (904% w/ WB)

TE/BR (Weak) = 271% (815% w/ WB)[/SPOILER-BOX]

Episode 3 Modifiers:
[SPOILER-BOX]HU/FI or FI/HU (Fury/Brave) = 379% (968% w/ WB)
HU/BR or BR/HU (Fury/Average) = 245% (624% w/ WB)

FI/BR or BR/FI (Brave/Average) = 300% (765% w/ WB)

RA/HU (Fury) = 466% (1190% w/ WB)
RA/BR (Average) = 365% (932% w/ WB)
RA/BR (Weak) = 429% (1095% w/ WB)

GU/HU (Fury) = 409% (1045% w/ WB)
GU/RA = 462% (1180% w/ WB)

FO/TE or TE/FO = 303% (774% w/ WB)
FO/BR (Weak) = 286% (731% w/ WB)

TE/BR (Weak) = 282% (719% w/ WB)[/SPOILER-BOX]

Or rather, a comparison of the change from Ep2 to Ep3:
[SPOILER-BOX]HU/FI or FI/HU (Fury/Brave) = 74% (63% comparing WB Damage)
HU/BR or BR/HU (Fury/Average) = 80% (68% comparing WB Damage)

FI/BR or BR/FI (Brave/Average) = 93% (79% comparing WB Damage)

RA/HU (Fury) = 97% (82% comparing WB Damage)
RA/BR (Average) = 116% (99% comparing WB Damage)
RA/BR (Weak) = 121% (102% comparing WB Damage)

GU/HU (Fury) = 66% (56% comparing WB Damage)
GU/RA = 93% (79% comparing WB Damage)

FO/TE or TE/FO = 91% (77% comparing WB Damage)
FO/BR (Weak) = 95% (80% comparing WB Damage)

TE/BR (Weak) = 103% (88% comparing WB Damage)[/SPOILER-BOX]

So pending class combination, you could see yourself being ~35% weaker (GU/HU) or possibly coming out even stronger (+20% GU/BR with Weak Stance) then before.
Weak Bullet nerf of course cuts 15% of character damage across the board.

Although skill tree modifiers aren't the whole story, since 105 PAs, and 28 Techs are being Buffed. Who knows if there will be a new "Shunka Shuran" status skill that slips through the balance.
And even though RA/BR with Weak Stance and hitting weak points is coming up on top after Ep3, they are taking a Cosmo Breaker and Sat Cannon nerf.

[Rehal]

^ what skill they going to nerf for Fo/Te and Fo/Br? . _.

[Rakurai]

They didn't nerf anything on FO or TE in terms of skills.

They're going to be better overall, due to FO having points to spare on more damage boosting skills and TE getting a buffed Wand Lovers on top of the extremely good Shifta Strike skill.

I especially look forward to using TE/FI more, due to FI's stance buffs and their new skill.

[Stickboy]

Gunslash whar

[Melodys]

They're nerfing II Barta, II Megid and II Grants for Fo. Depending on how severe the nerf is, it would probably mean ice fo may not be viable anymore (unless maybe Gibarta and Sabarta gets uber buffed). Many fos may probably switch to fire (techs are still pretty useful in properties) and wind (Mainly just for Sazan and to a lesser extent, Zan). Also depends on how much namegid gets buffed too since that tech is outshined by II barta and megid these days.

[Rakurai]

I don't think Na Megid needs a buff to be relevant after the Il Barta and Il Megid nerfs. It's the second highest single target DPS tech at the moment, and is likely to become the top after the changes.

It's probably one of the 11 techs that isn't changed. As for the others, I'm assuming all of the support techs won't be touched, along with Il Foie and Sa Zan, which leaves just one unknown.

[UnLucky]

Namegid with Charge Escape is going to be ridiculous.

[DJcooltrainer]

Man, weak stance and shooting bonus buff looks tasty for bows.

[moorebounce]

After seeing the new Skill Tree layouts I'll be all day trying to redo all my characters skill trees. Whoever came up with the idea for changing the layout needs a big fat raise IMO.

[Melodys]

Namegid with Charge Escape is going to be ridiculous.

Wha?! I agree on that along with II foie since it removes their vulnerability issues.

[Stealthcmc1974]

After seeing the new Skill Tree layouts I'll be all day trying to redo all my characters skill trees. Whoever came up with the idea for changing the layout needs a big fat raise IMO.

Amen to that. Sorry Step Advance, your time is over.

[kabutozero]

•Embedding a weak bullet into a certain part of an enemy allows that part to be auto targeted even if that part is usually only manually targetable. Example: Rockbear's face. Apos Dorios' core.

•Bullet Keep: Switching weapons will not remove special bullets like Weak Bullet and Bind Bullet.Unknown if it applies to Launchers. Unknown if PP Save Bullet and Power Bullet apply after weapon switch.

Hello ranger ,i'm back

[elryan]

A little bit saddened by GU/HU nerf. (As previously mentioned by a poster, GU/HU multipliers become 66% of its former glory: 613% -> 466%)

However, I don't personally think it is a big loss after all. With all-around buffs to Gunner PA (8 out of 10) and the buffs to Chain Trigger, I think Gunner can deal roughly the same or more damage than before.

If not, might as well play GU/FI, since FI is now a very solid sub-class.

The changes overall are good. Keeps the gameplay fresh. Props to SEGA.

[final_attack]

I guess, it's all comes down to War Brave for me .....

Should the bonus is 10% or 15% at lv 5 (Looking at current High Time .... 5 level, 5% - 15%, but, my best bet it'll be at 10% bonus though), I might still go GuHu, since it seems with this buff, most Gu will go for GuRa .... Too much WB seems too confusing for me :/ But .... the tools ..... are cool >_>

I still raise Ra atm, just in case once Ep 3 kicked in, no Gu went for GuRa ..... But it seems, it's not likely.

[Vampy]

I was thinking not sure how well this would work but there is an increase for every enemy you attract with warbrave correct? So why not use it in tandem with show time and gather as much hate as possible with shift period at least in terms of mobbing.

[Stealthcmc1974]

I was thinking not sure how well this would work but there is an increase for every enemy you attract with warbrave correct? So why not use it in tandem with show time and gather as much hate as possible with shift period at least in terms of mobbing.

Also combine it with hightime for more of a boost. Also will serve as a good way to lure enemies away from targets or keep bosses from moving too much. I'll have war brave and never give up on my new Hunter tree.

[final_attack]

Hmm, I think War Brave is a passive. It increase attack depends on WarCry pull .... Also, will War brave proc if I use it with ShowTime? Probably not though ..... ShowTime Aggro pull AoE is quite small (a little bit more than Sword melee range, I think) .... They did say they're gonna buff the hate generation, but, I guess not for AoE?

And, I think for bosses, it can be bad too (War Brave) .... Apos Dorios(?), Falz Elder, Luther only shows up 1 at a time, right?

If they buff it at 5% per enemy, 10% cap, it might be a little bit more useful. Rockbear, Wolga, Gwana only capped at 2 at the same time, right?

Then again, I'm still leaning toward GuRa myself (No problem aiming at weak point (except for Quartz) since I'm using manual aim mode so far) .... but, should there's too many Ra around (due to Weak Hit Advance buff) as Sub or Main ...... I think I should go for GuHu myself :/

I also already lost 100 R-Atk too .... once Ep 3 kicked in, due to change of Gunner tree :/ Getting Ra indeed boost my damage a lot :/

[LonelyGaruga]

Not quite so.

S-ATK can have some impact in the damage of Jet Boots, but T-ATK will be the main stat contributing to damage regardless of whether it's casting or striking. It's the same reason some TMGs have S-ATK in them (like Heretically), and why Te/Hu is a thing (T-ATK is main stat, but their attacks are striking-based)

Or that's what I've been taught about a month ago. Maybe someone else can clarify this a bit more.

Whoever taught you this was how it works got it wrong. There's separate damage formulas for striking, ranged, and technique attacks. The formula for ranged attacks applies to projectile attacks capable of performing headshots (or rather, they're capable of performing headshots because they are ranged attacks). The formula for technique attacks applies to techs exclusively. The formula for striking attacks applies for every attack that doesn't fall into these two categories. While all ranged attacks use R-ATK and R-DEF, and all technique attacks use T-ATK and T-DEF, striking attacks can be any three of the ATK stats because of its nature as the "default" formula.

Off-type ATK stats contribute literally nothing to an attack's damage. Heretically's S-ATK is meaningless for Heel Stab and other striking TMG attacks because they use R-ATK, not S-ATK. They are striking attacks, but they calculate using R-ATK and R-DEF. Same deal with Wand Gear explosions and Talis normals, substituting R-ATK and R-DEF with T-ATK and T-DEF. Regardless of whether Jet Boots run off S-ATK or T-ATK, they're going to be calculated as striking attacks, unless a new damage formula just for them is created.

[tehfusion]

A user by the name of aki42991 on the PSO2 subreddit pointed out (http://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2/comments/2buhf6/additional_information_regarding_the_ep3_skills/) that several of the new skills only apply when that class is used as the main class. I looked through the video myself, and can confirm this information, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere on PSO World yet.

These new skills only work for the main class:

War Brave (Hunter).
Limit Break (Fighter).
Bullet Keep (Ranger).
Charge Escape (Force).
Shifta Strike (Techer).
Deband Toughness (Techer).

These new skills work regardless of which class is the main class:

Healing Guard (Hunter).
Tech Arts JA Bonus (Fighter).
Attack Advance (Braver).
Charge Shot (Braver).
Gravity Bomb (Ranger).
Twice Chain (Gunner).
Chain Finish Bonus (Gunner).

Also, could you add to the original post that Fighter's Adrenaline skill has been reduced from five levels to only a single level?

[ReverseSeraf]

Whoever taught you this was how it works got it wrong. There's separate damage formulas for striking, ranged, and technique attacks. The formula for ranged attacks applies to projectile attacks capable of performing headshots (or rather, they're capable of performing headshots because they are ranged attacks). The formula for technique attacks applies to techs exclusively. The formula for striking attacks applies for every attack that doesn't fall into these two categories. While all ranged attacks use R-ATK and R-DEF, and all technique attacks use T-ATK and T-DEF, striking attacks can be any three of the ATK stats because of its nature as the "default" formula.

Off-type ATK stats contribute literally nothing to an attack's damage. Heretically's S-ATK is meaningless for Heel Stab and other striking TMG attacks because they use R-ATK, not S-ATK. They are striking attacks, but they calculate using R-ATK and R-DEF. Same deal with Wand Gear explosions and Talis normals, substituting R-ATK and R-DEF with T-ATK and T-DEF. Regardless of whether Jet Boots run off S-ATK or T-ATK, they're going to be calculated as striking attacks, unless a new damage formula just for them is created.

Isn't that what I said? ;x

The Heretically example was probably confusing. I meant the reason S-ATK is there is because it really does not contribute much to PAs such as Heel Stab and such, as R-ATK is the main stat.

Also gotten from bumped.org, but "Jet Boots are Tech dependent for both PAs and normal attacks. Dual Blades are striking dependent."

[final_attack]

Aw .... War Brave is only for main class?

Time to continue leveling Ranger then x: And ..... more skill point to spare x: Maybe I can go with traps too x:

Still, should needed, maybe I can switch to basic WarCry + Iron Will x:

With that Shifta + Deband only affect Te main ..... I can go full support for my TeFo then XD

[Maenara]

A user by the name of aki42991 on the PSO2 subreddit pointed out (http://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2/comments/2buhf6/additional_information_regarding_the_ep3_skills/) that several of the new skills only apply when that class is used as the main class. I looked through the video myself, and can confirm this information, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere on PSO World yet.

These new skills only work for the main class:

War Brave (Hunter).
Limit Break (Fighter).
Bullet Keep (Ranger).
Charge Escape (Force).
Shifta Strike (Techer).
Deband Toughness (Techer).

These new skills work regardless of which class is the main class:

Healing Guard (Hunter).
Tech Arts JA Bonus (Fighter).
Attack Advance (Braver).
Charge Shot (Braver).
Gravity Bomb (Ranger).
Twice Chain (Gunner).
Chain Finish Bonus (Gunner).

Also, could you add to the original post that Fighter's Adrenaline skill has been reduced from five levels to only a single level?

Update, thanks.

[LonelyGaruga]

Isn't that what I said? ;x

The Heretically example was probably confusing. I meant the reason S-ATK is there is because it really does not contribute much to PAs such as Heel Stab and such, as R-ATK is the main stat.

Also gotten from bumped.org, but "Jet Boots are Tech dependent for both PAs and normal attacks. Dual Blades are striking dependent."

It didn't really look like that was what you said, but looking it over again, I guess? Mainly the part about Heretically having S-ATK at all, it sounded like you were suggesting that it uses it for its attacks, when it doesn't, but your description of Te/Hu is spot on. Even this post I'm quoting kinda sounds like you're suggesting the S-ATK on Heretically has a purpose, but at the same time specifies that it does not. It's a bit of a mixed message, mainly because of this post.


As for Switch Strike, it makes Jet Boots into striking-type weapons. Has nothing to do with S-ATK or T-ATK (although Jet Boots will still be powered through T-ATK)

If they weren't striking type before, what would they be? They can't be technique type because that's restricted exclusively to techs, and they obviously can't be ranged type, so...yeah, kinda confusing.

[Gardios]

Just because there's no player weapon with technique attribute yet doesn't mean it's impossible. That was my whole point in the other topic.

[ShinMaruku]

It would be great if they added it.

[ReverseSeraf]

It didn't really look like that was what you said, but looking it over again, I guess? Mainly the part about Heretically having S-ATK at all, it sounded like you were suggesting that it uses it for its attacks, when it doesn't, but your description of Te/Hu is spot on. Even this post I'm quoting kinda sounds like you're suggesting the S-ATK on Heretically has a purpose, but at the same time specifies that it does not. It's a bit of a mixed message, mainly because of this post.

Sorry about that ^^;


If they weren't striking type before, what would they be? They can't be technique type because that's restricted exclusively to techs, and they obviously can't be ranged type, so...yeah, kinda confusing.

Well, a lot of the vids showed Jet Boots being able to throw out actual techs, but then quickly going in to give some kicks. I guess we won't really understand this until we play around with it.

[UnLucky]

These new skills only work for the main class:

War Brave (Hunter).
Limit Break (Fighter).
Bullet Keep (Ranger).
Charge Escape (Force).
Shifta Strike (Techer).
Deband Toughness (Techer).
Oh cool, they really don't want Techer to use techs. Buffs are still worthless for a caster, how quaint.

And Hunter still needs to spend way more SP as a main than as a sub. No other main class needs War Cry maxed, so it's not just the 5SP for the only damage boost besides Fury. Hunter main is the only class that can't afford Automate or Iron Will without sacrificing damage.

Kinda odd that an active skill is main class only, but I think Limit Break was Striking only anyway so not much of a loss there.

Too bad for Gu/Ra and Br/Ra (or Te/Ra) since they need WB Keep the most.

[Xaelouse]

It kinda irks me that they basically did a switcheroo with FSU2 and Combo, and it still trades off 15 points for a 10% damage boost. HU main doesn't even care about criticals, yet you have the choice to completely ignore brave/wise critical on fighter tree...which does care about criticals. They did say changes aren't final tho...

[Zyrusticae]

It kinda irks me that they basically did a switcheroo with FSU2 and Combo, and it still trades off 15 points for a 10% damage boost. HU main doesn't even care about criticals, yet you have the choice to completely ignore brave/wise critical on fighter tree...which does care about criticals. They did say changes aren't final tho...
They may actually change how crits work. I mean, they haven't said as much, but it is a possibility to consider.

[Shiyo]

A user by the name of aki42991 on the PSO2 subreddit pointed out (http://www.reddit.com/r/PSO2/comments/2buhf6/additional_information_regarding_the_ep3_skills/) that several of the new skills only apply when that class is used as the main class. I looked through the video myself, and can confirm this information, but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere on PSO World yet.

These new skills only work for the main class:

War Brave (Hunter).
Limit Break (Fighter).
Bullet Keep (Ranger).
Charge Escape (Force).
Shifta Strike (Techer).
Deband Toughness (Techer).

l?
I was about to post "I hope <skills you just listed> were main class only. Really hope they are! This is exactly what we need to make maining certain classes a viable option. Great job new Dev if this is true, you're the best.

Oh cool, they really don't want Techer to use techs. Buffs are still worthless for a caster, how quaint.

Force is the pure caster, techer is the melee support with "ok" nukes. I don't think it's possible to make TE a caster equal to force, it'll always be force -1, which is why making it a unique melee caster with insane support and buffs(please remove weak bullet, thanks) is much more interesting.

Most people I know who main techer, myself included, play it to buff and support while we hit things.


And Hunter still needs to spend way more SP as a main than as a sub. No other main class needs War Cry maxed, so it's not just the 5SP for the only damage boost besides Fury. Hunter main is the only class that can't afford Automate or Iron Will without sacrificing damage.
I can get warcry, new warcry thing, automate, 1 gear, and all fury traits and fury boost 1/5(all you need)I think.

Why do gears still cost SP? -_-

[Remz69]

I was about to post "I hope <skills you just listed> were main class only. Really hope they are! This is exactly what we need to make maining certain classes a viable option. Great job new Dev if this is true, you're the best.



only if it's handled properly otherwise you're just switching/forcing who's forever main and who's forever sub, which is one thing i wouldn't really count on seeing the main class only skills we have atm

[UnLucky]

Force is the pure caster, techer is the melee support with "ok" nukes. I don't think it's possible to make TE a caster equal to force, it'll always be force -1, which is why making it a unique melee caster with insane support and buffs(please remove weak bullet, thanks) is much more interesting.

Most people I know who main techer, myself included, play it to buff and support while we hit things.
Yeah, it's not enough to differentiate by the weapon types, since wands are trash as Te/Fo, so they made Fo/Te strictly superior with Element Convert, then even less reason to sub Techer by buffing both Fighter and Braver stances while Techer's new skill doesn't help Force at all.

I'd rather neither Element Convert nor Shifta Strike be main-class only so that if you want a support caster, you go Fo/Te. More damage in a single area: Fo/Br. Good damage everywhere: Fo/Fi. Then if you like wands, you can go pure melee with Te/Hu, pure techs as Te/Fo but with Step Attack, and a mix with either Te/Br or Te/Fi.

But no, Te/Fo is just trash. And the best support techs are still Zondeel and Zanverse by a large margin, so Techer sub is purely for TB. Not even for stronger Wind/Light/Dark since Fighter and Braver will be stronger now even without masteries.


I can get warcry, new warcry thing, automate, 1 gear, and all fury traits and fury boost 1/5(all you need)I think.

Why do gears still cost SP? -_-
But what's the point in War Brave if it only lasts for 14s? Assuming it's tied to War Cry itself since there's no duration stated on the skill. Unless they change that horrid cooldown on WC, you're going to want the damage bonus as long as possible.

60SP to max out damage as a subclass. 5 extra SP for all weapon gears, Fury Gear, and Rare Mastery. Bare minimum in War Brave is 8SP, max 15. That leaves you with at most 7 spare points if your War Cry can only be kept active half the time. Something's got to give. Meanwhile anyone else has a full 20SP to throw around, which could even go into 100 S-Atk if defensive abilities offend you.


They may actually change how crits work. I mean, they haven't said as much, but it is a possibility to consider.
It's even funnier when you consider Braver is also forced to take crit skills and they need it even less than Hunter. Even if crits were actually a thing, they still wouldn't need Stance Critical since Katana Gear exists.

[TheAstarion]

Just use a vpn or the AWS thing, gosh :/

As if anyone still complaining after all this time, and with all the guides and support offered by the forums, hasn't already tried it to find out that any change in IP address is blocked at some level by their ISP...

Gosh :/

On-topic... Techer's main class only skills, including the existing long time assist, would be much better as a sub... not just for FOTE which gets easier access to Techer's PP batteries, but more for hybrids (mostly HUTE, FITE, BOTE) since shifta now can give damage.

Maybe TEHU will be good enough in that case... Or maybe that's just going to be subless Bouncer tier. There was a statement that Techer was going to be the preferred sub for Bouncer but it looks like all the best things about Techer support (which is the only thing a melee-side Bouncer will care about, and tech-side Bouncer will need charge pp revival and will probably main FO for conversion anyway) are main only. Shifta Strike is going to have to outperform elemental conversion if main Techer is going to stand up on its own.

[Xaelouse]

To comment on melee class/TE, I think that's what BO is for. Elemental stance already sounds like a glorified EWH, and if elemental PP field is what I think it is then TE sub wont be missed. Auto-shifta is icing.
Although weak stance on BR is already sort of a glorified EWH, so idk how they will handle that skill
And Bouncer might not even needs pp revival. It might have an alternative of its own. Constantly charging techs would be a bit slow for a class like this after all.

[Shinamori]

I wonder if Direct Style and From Behind based weapons will increase based on the upcoming (a month away) buffs and changes to Brave/Wise stance.

[GHNeko]

I wish Gunslashes would be buffed ;_;

I want a gunslash build so badly.

Who's bright idea was it to create a weapon with no gear, poor animations/frame data, lack luster PAs, poor defensive capabilities (no guard or special parry), and bad stats.

Just for the sake of all class compatibility and all class PAs?

What a stupid idea omg.

Kills the brilliant potential that is a Gunslash!


EDIT: And yet, the only 12* Gunslash in the game (I'm surprised they gave Gunslash a 12*.) has one of the most insane potentials in the game. Restore 5%/7%/10% HP every 5 seconds!?

WHAT?!

WHY.

[vaerix]

We aren't allowed to have too many nice things.

[dr apocalipsis]

These new skills only work for the main class:
War Brave (Hunter).
Limit Break (Fighter).
Bullet Keep (Ranger).
Charge Escape (Force).
Shifta Strike (Techer).
Deband Toughness (Techer).

So every class is getting a buff but fote, who is getting a nerf through main techs weakening and no buffs.

Back to be subpar, ty sega.

[Sizustar]

So every class is getting a buff but fote, who is getting a nerf through main techs weakening and no buffs.

Back to be subpar, ty sega.

Only 3 Tech is getting nerfed, 28 other tech is getting buffed
And charge Tech escape is going to make FO even more easier to play.

http://i.imgur.com/s939hrT.jpg

[Rakurai]

At least you can feasibly max out PP Convert and Element Weak Hit, as well as get Super Treatment regardless of which elements you choose to use now.

[GHNeko]

Only 3 Tech is getting nerfed, 28 other tech is getting buffed
And charge Tech escape is going to make FO even more easier to play.

*snip*


You act as if people can break the tunnel vision they have because they're so comfortable with the current meta to allow them to take in the situation and changes in a holistic fashion.

[final_attack]

Personally, this changes in FoTe is very pleasing for me .....

Didn't like dps-spell-casting type .... with current skill tree, pure support isn't feasible ..... But with the changes, it seems I can go full support like I always do in other MMO which don't have Dual Gun \ :D /

Now, I'll just wait and see how useful is the buff for support Tech :D Hopefully, it's nice :D

[Sanguine2009]

Personally, this changes in FoTe is very pleasing for me .....

Didn't like dps-spell-casting type .... with current skill tree, pure support isn't feasible ..... But with the changes, it seems I can go full support like I always do in other MMO which don't have Dual Gun \ :D /

Now, I'll just wait and see how useful is the buff for support Tech :D Hopefully, it's nice :D

unless you play techer main it wont affect you much, the new support skills with the exception of passive TB are te main only.

[final_attack]

Ah, yes, I'm thinking of using TeFo for Support type (my bad, should've said TeFo before ^^; ) .... since my current Fo is enough if I only want to go full support (didn't have the time to level too many class OTL I'm already struggling with leveling Ra for my Gunner) ..... I think I only need 45 SP for Support-only Fo .... hopefully my calculation is correct (my Fo already 55, so I only need to level my Techer).

[UnLucky]

Now that I think about it, Attack Advance might actually work for Katana Combat Finish since it's technically a normal attack (raises Chain). Likely works for Counter Edge as well. Uncharged techs and Wand Gear explosions also fit the bill.

Charge Shot Up seems like kind of a bust, though.

[HeyItsTHK]

So every class is getting a buff but fote, who is getting a nerf through main techs weakening and no buffs.

Back to be subpar, ty sega.

People gotta drop this selective reading habit and read everything.

[Chdata]

Compare what they did with the FO and TE skill trees to

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3118609&highlight=force#post3118609

I'm psychic

[ShinMaruku]

You could be a witch too. :P

[UnLucky]

A while ago I posted modified trees with all the stat ups separated from the rest of the skills, too.

Of course, I also made them like T-Atk High Up before that was a thing so they were actually worth spending points on.

It's almost like the guy in charge has good ideas that make sense.

[GHNeko]

The question is if any of OUR feedback has gotten through.

[Daiyousei]

The question is if any of OUR feedback has gotten through.

I think what happened was that we have the same grievances as the Japanese players, like all those threads on 2ch.

[Shiyo]

So every class is getting a buff but fote, who is getting a nerf through main techs weakening and no buffs.

Back to be subpar, ty sega.

Yeah, it's really weird that the strongest, easiest, most face roll class ever created in a video game is getting a nerf to it's strongest and blatantly OP techs while it's other techs are being buffed.

What the fuck man?!

Do you enjoy casting 2 spells over and over, one of which can be used with your feet without looking at your monitor?

The question is if any of OUR feedback has gotten through.

I don't think so, considering weak bullet is still in the game, as well as S rolls damage bonus being NEXT PA and not your next 3 PA's, so you can, you know, actually use PA's that literally can't be S rolled and TMGs combo system. Hopefully the ~4 PA's you can't S roll at all just do 60% more damage than every other GU PA by default, or else the new dev needs to play GU more.

Honestly, my idea to make it so your next 3 PAs within 10s do 20-30% more damage would make it balanced and actually fun to use, unlike how it is now. Other alternative is to remove it and add more damage to GU PA's across the board.

[Maenara]

I wish Gunslashes would be buffed ;_;

I want a gunslash build so badly.

Who's bright idea was it to create a weapon with no gear, poor animations/frame data, lack luster PAs, poor defensive capabilities (no guard or special parry), and bad stats.

Just for the sake of all class compatibility and all class PAs?

What a stupid idea omg.

Kills the brilliant potential that is a Gunslash!


EDIT: And yet, the only 12* Gunslash in the game (I'm surprised they gave Gunslash a 12*.) has one of the most insane potentials in the game. Restore 5%/7%/10% HP every 5 seconds!?

WHAT?!

WHY.

I have a gunslash build. Gravity Bomb and Bullet Keep will act as buffs for my build. And one or more GS PAs will see a buff, don't worry.

[Atmius]

Honestly, my idea to make it so your next 3 PAs within 10s do 20-30% more damage would make it balanced and actually fun to use, unlike how it is now. Other alternative is to remove it and add more damage to GU PA's across the board.

It would've been more practical to just make it any PA's JA'd after the initial s roll until you either stop attacking or miss a JA are boosted by that the s roll bonus.

[Shiyo]

It would've been more practical to just make it any PA's JA'd after the initial s roll until you either stop attacking or miss a JA are boosted by that the s roll bonus.

Yeah that'd be good too, anything but how it works now, which makes serveral(~4 I think) PA's completely awkward and unusable with S roll, so they will forever be doing 60% less damage, and probably forever not be viable to use outside niche uses like air time or mobility. Bad design decision, just like not removing weak bullet.

[UnLucky]

Which PAs can't be SRoll'd? Everything can be, even while approaching your intended target, but anything shorter than the flip isn't worth the time to do it (especially after the nerf). That's why Messiah Time is better with SRoll JA, despite it being easier to combo back and forth. Yeah, Infinite Fire and Heel Stab are popular because positioning doesn't even matter, but Aerial Shooting and Bullet Squall sucked regardless.

Damn shame about Reverse Tap right after they fixed it, but even if they completely took out SRolling now it'd still be better to just Shift Period instead.

Who even used Deadly Approach to attack with anyway?

And Satellite Aim died the moment they released Elder Rebellion. Don't blame that on bad skill trees.

[DoubleZero]

I'm incredibly pleased to see that the caster classes no longer need to commit to specific elements to get certain abilities, and also that every tree is being rebuilt from the ground up. Clearly, the person responsible for this should be listened to more often! Maybe he could mention lifting arbitrary restrictions on weapons for sub-classes next.

I am also glad they are rebalancing PAs as well, because the old method of releasing new PAs that rendered the old ones useless was getting out of hand: Elder Rebellion is just like.. four or five Satellite Aims in a row with actual range to them, the more popular Wire Lance PAs don't even make use of WL Gear, and Launcher just couldn't compete until Cosmos Breaker showed up. Maybe now we'll see some actual variety in PA usage.

[Chdata]

What I want to see is a ranger skill where crits do 3x damage.

Especially for launcher.

[GHNeko]

I have a gunslash build. Gravity Bomb and Bullet Keep will act as buffs for my build. And one or more GS PAs will see a buff, don't worry.

It's not good enough man.

There should be a Gunslash gear!

If Gunslash is supposed to be a weapon everyone can use, then there should be a Gunslash Gear skill on every tree that is complete separate from the tree and 100% on its own.

This way if you want to use gunslash you're not 2000% gimped.

[Sizustar]

I'm incredibly pleased to see that the caster classes no longer need to commit to specific elements to get certain abilities, and also that every tree is being rebuilt from the ground up. Clearly, the person responsible for this should be listened to more often! Maybe he could mention lifting arbitrary restrictions on weapons for sub-classes next.

I am also glad they are rebalancing PAs as well, because the old method of releasing new PAs that rendered the old ones useless was getting out of hand: Elder Rebellion is just like.. four or five Satellite Aims in a row with actual range to them, the more popular Wire Lance PAs don't even make use of WL Gear, and Launcher just couldn't compete until Cosmos Breaker showed up. Maybe now we'll see some actual variety in PA usage.

He's open to idea for unorthodox build, and welcome player to submit ideas as these are just the first change, there are still future change and more and new skill to make player try more interesting combonation.

[Radical Dreamer]

It's not good enough man.

There should be a Gunslash gear!

If Gunslash is supposed to be a weapon everyone can use, then there should be a Gunslash Gear skill on every tree that is complete separate from the tree and 100% on its own.

This way if you want to use gunslash you're not 2000% gimped.

That's what I've been asking for! Each class could get a Gunslash Gear skill that boosts from aspect of it (melee attacks for HU, ranged attacks for RA, etc). What'd be even cooler is if the Gears from your main and sub classes stacked, meaning you could customize your Gunslash into a true hybrid weapon.

... But I'm sure they'll just boost Tri-Impact's damage to a bajillion or something and consider Gunslash "fixed."

[GHNeko]

They'd probably give a shit about Gunslash if people used it, but people dont use it because it's shitty.

[Radical Dreamer]

They'd probably give a shit about Gunslash if people used it, but people dont use it because it's shitty.

People used to use it. As a pistol.

I mean, Sega even threw the Gunslash into the Ranger's class COs. They didn't even bother to hide the fact that, from the very beginning, they didn't give a damn about the slash in GunSLASH.

... But now I'm just venting. =_=

[Stickboy]

Does anyone see massive hunter? From 10sp to 5sp for max level?

[Xaelouse]

It's suspect of getting an overhaul. There was mention of defensive skills getting buffed, so yeah.
Nobody cares though because apparently it's cool to not get hit as hunter or something

[SilenWhisper]

Hp Boost on Force?How come?Wouldn't it make more sense if it was put on Techer instead?Or not at all?

[GHNeko]

People used to use it. As a pistol.

I mean, Sega even threw the Gunslash into the Ranger's class COs. They didn't even bother to hide the fact that, from the very beginning, they didn't give a damn about the slash in GunSLASH.

... But now I'm just venting. =_=

Boy you should have seen the massive rant I had about gunslash in-game today.

I threw the biggest tantrum when I learned that the camera locks up horizontally when the JA circle turns red when you try to melee with Gunslash in TPS mode.

I'm sure it does with other Melee weapons, but that tip me over the edge because all the shitty design elements of Gunslash were frustrating me like no end.

I just wanted to play Dead Island / Borderlands in PSO2 man. ;_;

Also, Joseph is a HU that primarily has gunslash training COs, no? And uses only Gunslash, right?

[Omega-z]

Hp Boost on Force?How come?Wouldn't it make more sense if it was put on Techer instead?Or not at all?


Well, Techer is getting a better HP boost thru Deband Toughness (main only) which boosts HP +25% (I believe). The only downside is that you have to keep Deband up.

[Achelousaurus]

Suganuma is MY HERO!
I agree with 99% of the changes.
This is 1,000times better than anything I ever expected.
Hell, just a few days ago I was chatting with people and we all said whow we disliked the damage lowering of fi stances and how nice it would be if it was at least 100% at all times.


60SP to max out damage as a subclass. 5 extra SP for all weapon gears, Fury Gear, and Rare Mastery. Bare minimum in War Brave is 8SP, max 15. That leaves you with at most 7 spare points if your War Cry can only be kept active half the time. Something's got to give. Meanwhile anyone else has a full 20SP to throw around, which could even go into 100 S-Atk if defensive abilities offend you.

Wait, you want max dps AND max tanking?
The entire point is there are different hu builds.


Back to be subpar, ty sega.
You saying Ilmegid is fine the way it is?


Honestly, my idea to make it so your next 3 PAs within 10s do 20-30% more damage would make it balanced and actually fun to use, unlike how it is now. Other alternative is to remove it and add more damage to GU PA's across the board.
Nah, better would be a skill like for fi that gives a boost for varying ja PAs that is on par with S Roll boost.

Also, I agree that Gunslash is a joke. I don't even think of it as a weapon when I consider what happens a given class can use.
I don't think I really used it outside of trying out all PAs for the heck of it.
Needs a major overhaul.
And I agree, gears should be free and every class should have Gunslash Gear for free (even if the other gears aren't, I don#t think many people would get Gunslash gear unless it's free).

[UnLucky]

He's open to idea for unorthodox build, and welcome player to submit ideas as these are just the first change, there are still future change and more and new skill to make player try more interesting combonation.
Forget what I put in the last player feedback survey, but I gotta put "S/R-Atk High Up for every class" in there next time.

Maybe something about reducing SP required for War Cry, stats, and crit skills, too.


People used to use it. As a pistol.

I mean, Sega even threw the Gunslash into the Ranger's class COs. They didn't even bother to hide the fact that, from the very beginning, they didn't give a damn about the slash in GunSLASH.

... But now I'm just venting. =_=
Kressida has a CO for every class to clear some free field using gunslash. Think there might be more. I remember it being a pain as Force, but that's why they've got higher R-Atk than Techer, right? :/


Does anyone see massive hunter? From 10sp to 5sp for max level?
Still needs squandered points in Guard Stance, but I'd love to see them make that horrid cooldown slightly better. If it's just the old lv10 values at lv5 then it's still trash.


Wait, you want max dps AND max tanking?
The entire point is there are different hu builds.
They're adding damage to War Cry. To get max dps, you need War Cry. It's an offensive skill.

[Achelousaurus]

I really don't think of it this way.
I think of it as a boost for the tank build, so that tank can still deal some decent damage and isn't a one track pony that can only act as punching ball.

[ShinMaruku]

I find tank builds in this game silly. You can avoid fuckers. It should only be for bad luck.

[Hrith]

I'm a bit bummed about the Chase Advance nerf, I do not understand why that needed a nerf =/

Everything else looks stunning, though, especially the force and techer trees.

[gigawuts]

I'm a bit bummed about the Chase Advance nerf, I do not understand why that needed a nerf =/

Everything else looks stunning, though, especially the force and techer trees.

I don't think it needed a nerf, however it being unable to work on bosses (which is what you'd REALLY want a big damage buff against) was a pretty big problem.

So boosting base attack values and nerfing that conditional attack value falls in the same category as boosting base attack values while nerfing fury stance.

Thin the gap between the conditional and the baseline, and more options are made available. Which is good.

[HeyItsTHK]

I find tank builds in this game silly. You can avoid fuckers. It should only be for bad luck.

When things go south or you're involved in something ugly like the Mothership EQ where you can take repeated explosions and other nonsense like attacks filling the hallway, tanky and supporty people can be useful. Some people like to be of help to others.

When soloing or in small parties, tanking is not that useful yeah, but in the increasingly harder MPAs? Those people have their worth.

[UnLucky]

You'd think if he actually played the game he'd understand that Chase doesn't need a nerf. Really feels like he just saw it was 40% and was like "why is this so high wtf"

That or it's going to be for all damage or work for bosses or something really cool and useful instead of just completely forgotten.

[HeyItsTHK]

Also, Joseph is a HU that primarily has gunslash training COs, no? And uses only Gunslash, right?

Joseph uses Knuckles but switches to gunslash at range, at least the last time I used him, but that goes with what you said, using the GUN in gunslash. I think Lottie and Lubert ONLY use gunslash, last time I used them.

[Xaelouse]

I find tank builds in this game silly. You can avoid fuckers. It should only be for bad luck.

dont you play fighting games? Surely you'd know about the concept of trading hits in your favor :wacko:
Dont worry, your style meter wont drop from it

[Gamemako]

Thanks for posting this.

Some parts are pretty disappointing to me. Looks like an overall nerf to Hunter with still no reason to spec Guard Stance. Fury Stance spec with Automate Halfline is same as it always was, except that it's now mostly possible as HU main. HU/TE makes even less sense now, since you'll have better offense and defense both if you go TE/HU due to new TE-main-only buffs. You could go TE/HU and eat the penalties, but that also prevents War Brave, and would be pointless with another Techer in the party, so... blah.

[Zyrusticae]

Some parts are pretty disappointing to me. Looks like an overall nerf to Hunter with still no reason to spec Guard Stance.
Nerfs to Hunter as a sub, you mean. The buffs to PAs and the improvements to Hunter gameplay (faster attack speed, faster recovery, greater range, faster movement speed) means that HU as a main may actually be competitive once again.

As for Guard Stance, too early to tell, really. The game itself conspires against defensive builds with how fast-paced it all is (and how powerful the defensive abilities are), so it's kind of hard to find reasons to take it regardless. People may nonetheless find some interesting things to do with it after the buffs.

[HeyItsTHK]

Thanks for posting this.

Some parts are pretty disappointing to me. Looks like an overall nerf to Hunter with still no reason to spec Guard Stance. Fury Stance spec with Automate Halfline is same as it always was, except that it's now mostly possible as HU main. HU/TE makes even less sense now, since you'll have better offense and defense both if you go TE/HU due to new TE-main-only buffs. You could go TE/HU and eat the penalties, but that also prevents War Brave, and would be pointless with another Techer in the party, so... blah.

"Overall nerf to hunter". People are taking this fury stance thing a little too hard, what faster and better attacks and stronger PAs (how strong remains to be seen but still) not good enough? If you note, everything that was nerfed got buffs in exchange. This DOES mean previous things you were pidgeonholed into (GU/HU for example) is overall weaker (but still useable). I'm okay with a little less numbers in exchange for better everything else.

Everything is being balanced around the original designs of the class.

[Gamemako]

Nerfs to Hunter as a sub, you mean. The buffs to PAs and the improvements to Hunter gameplay (faster attack speed, faster recovery, greater range, faster movement speed) means that HU as a main may actually be competitive once again.

Sorry, I wasn't clear at all. Mainly just musing as I fiddled with skill sim and read changes. I meant that it was a nerf to Hunter's skill tree potential without providing a viable alternative. It's not reasonable to take both Guard and Fury and swap between the two, for example.

[Xaelouse]

If you're sad about HU/TE, then just go HU/BO. It'll be better since for one dualblades would actually be useful to a HU main unlike the wand

[IndigoNovember]

Also, Joseph is a HU that primarily has gunslash training COs, no? And uses only Gunslash, right?

He gives you weapon training COs for Hunter, Ranger, and Force weapons. You unlock them by doing the initial training COs on Ohza, Lisa, and Marlu.

[Gamemako]

Oh, and regarding Guard Stance, I'm not sure that the changes to Techer don't make it less viable itself. If you want the Techer buffs, you have to drop even more damage. The third way is just to spec HU/FI instead, which gives you similar HP as TE/HU with slightly-lower defense and a good buff to offense -- and being flat-out better with a TE in tow.

Of course, it just ends up being awkward at best to even talk tanky builds when BR/HU has all the durability it could possibly need.


If you're sad about HU/TE, then just go HU/BO. It'll be better since for one dualblades would actually be useful to a HU main unlike the wand

I don't see that as likely. TE provides -20% damage reduction and +25% HP. I don't see how BO is going to match that for durability.

//EDIT: If you were thinking melee/magic builds, then HU makes less sense than BR anyway, because BR stances apply to techs already.

[ShinMaruku]

dont you play fighting games? Surely you'd know about the concept of trading hits in your favor :wacko:
Dont worry, your style meter wont drop from it
http://i2.wp.com/shoryuken.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/juri.jpg she don't deal in trades.

[dr apocalipsis]

Yeah, it's really weird that the strongest, easiest, most face roll class ever created in a video game is getting a nerf to it's strongest and blatantly OP techs while it's other techs are being buffed.

What the fuck man?!

Do you enjoy casting 2 spells over and over, one of which can be used with your feet without looking at your monitor?

Well, I use IlMegid so little that most times I just forget I have that. But nerfing current FoTe bread and butter isn't nice.

My complaints go more for the new Te skills being main only, because I like to change to support on the fly on certain situations, like Dark Falz Loser. I don't get why most other new skills aren't locked to main class.

Also, people use to confuse easy to play with op. IlMegid isn't that op to start with. Remove 1~2k dmg and it will be useless.

[GHNeko]

Also, people use to confuse easy to play with op. IlMegid isn't that op to start with. Remove 1~2k dmg and it will be useless.

http://i.imgur.com/aOm36Pb.gif

REMOVE ONLY 1-2k DAMAGE IT WILL BE USELESS HE SAYS.

IRUMEGIDO ISNT "THAT" OP HE SAYS.

[dr apocalipsis]

Zondeel+Ilfoie is a much better nuke.

I'm sorry if you aren't iruskillfuldo enough.

[Kondibon]

http://i.imgur.com/aOm36Pb.gif

REMOVE ONLY 1-2k DAMAGE IT WILL BE USELESS HE SAYS.

IRUMEGIDO ISNT "THAT" OP HE SAYS.Ilmegid is only op when it's scaled up a lot. Try using it on a non-dark build, or hell, without the right weapons even, as apposed to shunka which was doing insane damage even if you were a bow using RA/BR.

I'm not saying Ilmegid shouldn't be nerfed, but I don't think the damage is the biggest problem. It's the fact that it can hit the same enemy more than once, and has such a big range. Remove that and it's just a more expensive megid against single mobs.

Also the -pp cost customization kinda breaks the balance as well, but I'm not sure what the downside is.

I would say that the scaling is another problem but that's a problem with force in general. There's too big of a gap between having both masteries maxed and not having both masteries maxed. It's meant to be a situational bonus, but the result is just people using one or two elements for everything. Elemental masteries are seriously the worst thing about Teching at the moment.

[Gamemako]

Ilmegid is only op when it's scaled up a lot. Try using it on a non-dark build...

Oh, so it's not OP if it's weak when using on a HU/FO with no T-ATK on his weapon? Well, thanks for clearing that up. :p

Anyway, Zondeel and Ilfoie are RIDICULOUSLY temperamental and situational and in the absolute best case is barely superior to tossing a card 2 inches and then spamming hands of doom. Ilmegid's damage IS its problem.

[UnLucky]

Thank you for proving once again how you know nothing about PSO2 mechanics.

Sorry for agreeing with you for once, geez.

I just don't think it's worth 10SP for 20% damage only some of the time only on mobs that already die in one shot and only if you dedicate an affix slot. 40% was already pushing it since every mob type has different SE susceptibility.

It should have been knocked down to 5SP or merged with Chase+ or anything else instead of reducing the damage at lv10. If 1SP still gives a 10% bonus then that's as far as it's worth investing in except to unlock Chase+. Even if it's 10% at lv5 you would get more damage by maxing Chase+ first (26.5% with both at 5).

Next to Tech Arts and PP Slayer and Limit Break+*line Slayers, post-nerf Chase Advance will die. Even Crit Strike will give a higher consistent damage boost for the SP cost than Chase.

[Daiyousei]

like how a bullet loses energy as it goes through a target, I'd say ilmegid would be nice in that it loses damage per enemy it goes through.

[gigawuts]

like how a bullet loses energy as it goes through a target, I'd say ilmegid would be nice in that it loses damage per enemy it goes through.

I've suggested 3 solutions to Ilmegid in the past:

First off: Ilmegid immediately disappears after damaging something three times. Full stop. No excuses. No more zondeeling 18 enemies and having Ilmegid hit all of them for each swoop. This can combine with one of the following...

1. Can never 1shot something. The most damage it can do is the target's max hp minus 1. A second hit can finish the job. This means an individual ilmegid can kill, at most, 2 targets per casting.
2. Ilmegid deals half damage for each target it hits.

[GHNeko]

Zondeel+Ilfoie is a much better nuke.

I'm sorry if you aren't iruskillfuldo enough.

1. If you thought that I was only talking about IRUMEGIDO's damage being the reason why it's OP, then you're sadly mistaken.

2. Thanks for subtly taking a jab at my player skill in a patronizing fashion.

3. IRUMEGIDO's damage is only one factor of its ridiculousness, albeit probably the biggest once but the reason for that and why people think the damage is the only problem is because the damage of IRUMEGIDO is completely exacerbated by it's crazy utility. Insane tracking capabilities, great speed, and its PP Cost isnt shabby considering FO/TE skill tree. (Nevermind it has a normal charge time and you can reduce cost by crafting.)

It also pulls aggro extremely well making it easy to pool enemies together to BOP all at once. AND it can proc poison too? lol. It makes dealing with mobile and/or difficulty enemies much much easier and it's a long range tech. The fact that it does sooo much work for you makes its damage output and DPS that more obvious to the average eye.

Even with so-so damage, the thing would still be the best go-to tech in 90% of situations, just like Shunka.

IRUMEGIDO is a lot better overall than a Zondeel + Ilfoie combo which requires a specific setup that isnt as lenient or as all around practical, and works primarily on enemies that are affected by Zondeel and requires someone to not detonate that shit too. It's a 2 part tactic that while good if it works, doesnt stack up in overall usefulness.

IRUMEGIDO's OP factor is in its utility. Utility is a damage multiplier man.


Ilmegid is only op when it's scaled up a lot. Try using it on a non-dark build, or hell, without the right weapons even, as apposed to shunka which was doing insane damage even if you were a bow using RA/BR.

I'm not saying Ilmegid shouldn't be nerfed, but I don't think the damage is the biggest problem. It's the fact that it can hit the same enemy more than once, and has such a big range. Remove that and it's just a more expensive megid against single mobs.

Also the -pp cost customization kinda breaks the balance as well, but I'm not sure what the downside is.

I would say that the scaling is another problem but that's a problem with force in general. There's too big of a gap between having both masteries maxed and not having both masteries maxed. It's meant to be a situational bonus, but the result is just people using one or two elements for everything. Elemental masteries are seriously the worst thing about Teching at the moment.

See this guy gets it. (Even though he thought I was just talking about it's damage for some reason.)

However; I disagree that without scaling wouldnt be really silly. IRUMEGIDO would still be a go to tech for soo many reasons. It'd damage isnt the only problem. I still think that without damage it'd still be barely OP.

Without damage, IRUMEGIDO would still be the best way to setup for Sazan 16. It'd still be the best tech for attacking things outside of Sazan Range, to pull them to you TO BE SAZAN 16'd.

Like Sazan 16 would be the patch to IRUMEGIDO's missing damage problem and become a dominating 2 part tactic.

[gigawuts]

Basically, I explain ilmegid as such:

It turns a player into a sentry turret

Turrets are rarely known for being underpowered

[UnLucky]

The real problem with Ilmegid is the game itself.

You're both right.

It's way too easy to sit and spam, watching Death's hand claw away at the entire map.

But if even a slight nerf means a second cast is required to kill most enemies, then there's no reason to even cast the first one. Something else would be able to kill your target faster. If not from you, then by some other class.

Would two Fo/Te casting two Ilmegids sweep the floor faster than, say, a Ra/Br and Hu/Br tag team? Or would the Force better earn their spot in the MPA strictly relegated to Zondeel+Zanverse duty?

Rafoie, Zonde, Gimegid, and Ilbarta got spammed because they could instantly oneshot most anything anywhere (honorable mention to Elysion'd Sazan). A damage or tracking nerf could cripple Ilmegid. A speed decrease might be enough for other techs to be a better option in certain situations yet keep Ilmegid viable.

Also the crafts recipes are -PP/+Charge vs +Power/-Speed. I'd rather either of those demerits be increased before touching the damage.

[GHNeko]

I dont think damage would cripple IRUMEGIDO because it would have to be a massive massive damage nerf to the move in order to like REALLY cripple it, but at that point, you would have already nerfed it into being non-viable. The threshold for damage nerfing IRUMEGIDO exists in non-viable territory I feel.

You'd have to target multiple aspects and chip away at the move evenly and bring down it's overall usefulness. Damage included.

I'm sure you know that one-shotting, while highly valued isnt the only shining becon for techs. If IRUMEGIDO can pull mobs to be pulled together by Sazan 16, even if IRUMEGIDO doesnt kill, it still alerts aware players what is happening and what to do, and Sazan would pull the enemies together like a nice little package waiting to be bopped by other players without having to risk yourself with non-talis Zondeel or to bother with Talis for distanced Zondeel.

I mean I'm just pulling out one example, but you can think of a ton of situations that even a lackluster IRUMEGIDO would be useful outside of oneshots.

AT THE VERY LEAST, a non-1shot IRUMEGIDO would make it easier for weaker players to take out targets, no?

If the tech is strong enough to bowl through 40% HP of like 18 different enemies in TD3, that just means everyone else can move on to different targets that much faster, while having the tech consolidate enemies in a single area.

[Edson Drake]

I think the problem with Il Megid is that it's too easy to use. People say it's OP when you stack multipliers over and over with equipments(looking at you dark weapons), it's expected to be that way.

But without a single doubt, every Force out there only spams Il Megid, or Sa Zan. It's a real waste of a class that should be using most of its techs, and yet now uses only two.

I want to see a huge lightning buff, PP costs down(even the removal of the skill from the trees and making it built-in on lightning techs), changing the mechanics of some, like Gizonde with much, much more range, Razonde being cast much higher from Rod, thus, covering a large AoE. Na Zonde having increased power, making it easier to cancel, etc, etc.

But if we get a decent balance on most techs as promised, things look very bright for Force.

[Kondibon]

However; I disagree that without scaling wouldnt be really silly. IRUMEGIDO would still be a go to tech for soo many reasons. It'd damage isnt the only problem. I still think that without damage it'd still be barely OP.I'mwith unlucky on this. As someone who actually uses ilmegid occasionally without being specd heavily into dark, it's rarely my go-to tech, and I only really spam it in places with dark weak enemies or when I'm in the middle of a room and surrounded by enemies that are to ofar appart to zondeel properly. In the case of the later, I might add that I only use itto mop up weak things, and only when using PP convert. The problem is, that's only because of the PP cost, which can be lowered considerably, removing it's biggest (only?) downside.

The thing is, like UnLucky said, if you can chose between using ilmegid, and oneshotting something you'll chose the later, especially in MPAs where you don't get much time to do anything, and everyone else is oneshotting stuff. That's a problem all on it's own though.


People say it's OP when you stack multipliers over and over with equipments(looking at you dark weapons), it's expected to be that way.It's not just op because of the damage, as people have said before, and it's not just that it's easy to use. It does so many thing at once while still oneshotting stuff. It's a good single target, AND mobbing tech, as well as haaving an insane range and being capable of oneshotting stuff if you spec for it. It just has too much potential, something has to be dropped down a notch.

The fact that people base their balancing off the oneshot meta shows how broken the scaling in the game is anyway. The game is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT when you aren't oneshotting most of the normal mobs and stunlocking bosses.

[GHNeko]

That's a fair enough stance than, possibly a better once as I don't have too much experience with it because I play odd builds admittedly.

I've pulled more use out IRUMEGIDO from things outside of its damage vs just it's damage in combination of my character's builds.

That being said, I do stand by the notion that damage isnt the only thing that should be nerfed.

[Kondibon]

That being said, I do stand by the notion that damage isnt the only thing that should be nerfed.I never disagreed with that. I'm with Giga in thinking that it should only hit a limited amount of enemies. Infact I'd prefer that over a straight damage nerf, since that later is just gonna either make it unused in the meta, or make specing into it even more important for it to be viable/effecient.

[Sizustar]

I never disagreed with that. I'm with Giga in thinking that it should only hit a limited amount of enemies. Infact I'd prefer that over a straight damage nerf, since that later is just gonna either make it unused in the meta, or make specing into it even more important for it to be viable/effecient.

Or have it reduce damage each time it go through enemy.
100% on first 2 enemy, 80% on 3~4, 5+ 60% damage.

[Kondibon]

Or have it reduce damage each time it go through enemy.
100% on first 2 enemy, 80% on 3~4, 5+ 60% damage.That would defeat the point of using it. I feel that it should still be good at AoE and decreasing the damage would hurt that more than limiting how many enemies it can hit when it matters, and when it doesn't matter then nothing changes.

[The Walrus]

Make it cost more PP?

[horseship]

Make it cost more PP?

I guess this could work to lessen the spam if they raise the cost to around 50 pp, but forces still have pp convert and ketos proi to give them practically infinite ilmegid spam at times. It would still be problematic in my opinion.

Speaking of increasing pp costs, and moving away from irumegido discussion, I think shunka needs a pp cost increase. I know it already got nerfed in damage, and BR isn't getting any PA nerfs, but shunka is still way too efficient in terms of damage per pp. It doesn't need a damage nerf anymore, but increasing the pp cost would encourage people to use other PAs more instead of spamming shunka all day and still getting great mileage out of their pp bar. One shotting trash mobs in 4 different places should cost 45-60 pp realistically. We'll just have to see how the other PAs get buffed, assuming that shunka isn't one of them.

[Kondibon]

Speaking of increasing pp costs, and moving away from irumegido discussion, I think shunka needs a pp cost increase. I know it already got nerfed in damage, and BR isn't getting any PA nerfs, but shunka is still way too efficient in terms of damage per pp. It doesn't need a damage nerf anymore, but increasing the pp cost would encourage people to use other PAs more instead of spamming shunka all day and still getting great mileage out of their pp bar. One shotting trash mobs in 4 different places should cost 45-60 pp realistically. We'll just have to see how the other PAs get buffed, assuming that shunka isn't one of them.No one cares about pp effeciency for high damage PAs with long animations, just look at gunner.

[GHNeko]

Plus doesnt Ketos P essentially mitigate that anyways?

It should lose its Super Armor before anything else.

That move having super armor makes no sense.

That's what makes it so damn useful. The super armor ensures you get to do the whole attack meaning you put every last PP spent to use.

If you could get knocked out of Shunka, then there would be a very real and tangible cost to using the move. You could find yourself out 32 (?) PP because of a mistimed Shunka, and if you're Shunka-ing from enemy to enemy like a mad man, there is an increased chance you're gonna get smacked out of something.

I mean shit, the old damage wouldnt be so bad (not that I'm saying go back to it) if there was no super armor.

It's like Instant Sentinel man. That nigga has super armor everywhere in Marvel 2.

[Kondibon]

Plus doesnt Ketos P essentially mitigate that anyways?

It should lose its Super Armor before anything else.

That move having super armor makes no sense.

That's what makes it so damn useful. The super armor ensures you get to do the whole attack meaning you put every last PP spent to use.

If you could get knocked out of Shunka, then there would be a very real and tangible cost to using the move. You could find yourself out 32 (?) PP because of a mistimed Shunka, and if you're Shunka-ing from enemy to enemy like a mad man, there is an increased chance you're gonna get smacked out of something.

I mean shit, the old damage wouldnt be so bad (not that I'm saying go back to it) if there was no super armor.

It's like Instant Sentinel man. That nigga has super armor everyone in Marvel 2.If someone is using a dark build they're subbing techer anyway, so even without Ketos they'd likely have PP convert, since it's right in the dark tree anyway. Even after the skill tree update it's gonna be really good for dark builds everything ever.

And yeah, I agree, Shunka needs to lose the hyper armor. That would, at the very least, prevent it from being used irresponsibly.

[GHNeko]

Well I was talking about Ketos P for Shunka users, but yeah that'd be another point. I'm rocking BRTE and I have maxed out PP Restraint, the amount of PAs I can throw out per scrimmage is silly.

[UnLucky]

Ketos Proi helps Hatou more than Shunka precisely because of how long each one lasts. PP regen stops during PAs, after all.

[GHNeko]

Yeah you're right, but either way, Shunka's PP cost is mitigated by Ketos so simply increasing the PP cost isnt going to do much. Yeah you wont be able to get much mileage out of the PB, but it's better than nothing. If you can sneak in 2 standard attacks between each PA, you'll get maybe 100%-200% more Shunka Dunka Dunka Hunka action in before your Blast is blown and you're no longer a ShunkaStallion.

[horseship]

Shunka is no irumegido though, it won't be charging your pb in 30 seconds like ilmegid will with pp convert unless you're killing zondeeled mobs or something. It's just still way too spammable because of the low pp cost, and the super armor like you said.

[GHNeko]

Agreed. It's not. I guess I'm grasping a bit because I feel PP cost is trying to cure a symptom and not the actual problem.

[LonelyGaruga]

An increased PP cost would make it a lot more difficult to actually build PB with, and significantly decrease the rate at which one could utilize Ketos Proi. Though, I should think that increasing its charge time by at least half a second, or a severe decrease in travel speed, would be more effective a nerf. Funnily, those two are exactly the demerits attached to Ilmegid's crafting recipes.

It's annoying that the nerf list doesn't specify how the named PAs/techs are getting nerfed, since some of these discussed ideas could very well be exactly what's getting implemented.

[CricketJam]

Just make it so that only one ilmegid of yours can be onscreen at a time. It prevents spamming and doesn't take any groundbreaking steps to try and change/balance something. Oh you casted another one? Well now the first just instantly disappeared.

[GHNeko]

But what about it's damage and one shotting capabilities, especially with a Zondeel active?

[UnLucky]

The large majority of useful techs will oneshot trash in a Zondeel. No one's talking about nerfing Safoie and Gimegid are they?

[Kondibon]

The large majority of useful techs will oneshot trash in a Zondeel. No one's talking about nerfing Safoie and Gimegid are they?This is why I say the damage isn't the problem, it's the scaling, and the scaling is a problem for most of the stuff in the game.

[Maenara]

They never said HOW they were nerfing those technics.

[Kondibon]

They never said HOW they were nerfing those technics.
If it was something involving altering the mechanics of them then they probably would have said something about it. It's likely just a decrease to damage and/or and increase in pp cost.

[Shiyo]

This is why I say the damage isn't the problem, it's the scaling, and the scaling is a problem for most of the stuff in the game.
Do techs/pa's scale differently with tattk/sattk or something?

Never knew that.

[LonelyGaruga]

Just make it so that only one ilmegid of yours can be onscreen at a time. It prevents spamming and doesn't take any groundbreaking steps to try and change/balance something. Oh you casted another one? Well now the first just instantly disappeared.

This is my favorite suggestion by far.


If it was something involving altering the mechanics of them then they probably would have said something about it.

They didn't say anything specific about the buffs and nerfs to PAs/techs being done. When small-scale changes were done, they at least listed everything done, even if it was just an increase in power. With how many changes are being done, listing all of them is unfeasible, and only listing some of them wouldn't make sense. Plus, they only have so much room to work with on those announcement things, so it makes sense to skimp out on descriptions of nerfs. It's nice enough that they even listed what they're nerfing, instead of just saying "2 PAs and 3 techs nerfed". We don't even get to know what all is being buffed.

[ClothoBuer]

As one of the handful of Gu/Hu tanky builds, I'm honestly underwhelmed by the overall defensive improvements. Sure, it's still hard to say how much the changes will actually affect gameplay, but it seems to me that it's still being treated as a niche playstyle and not one they really want to go anywhere with.


No Passive Threat: All the hate modifiers are still locked in on-use abilities. Doesn't fix the issue that anyone with higher damage will out-hate tanks.
HP Up requires massive point investment: 30 points gone just for +150 HP. That means you're basically pigeonholed into health or Flash Guard.
Still no reason to get Guard Stance Poison/Burn: Even if it's easier to get, you're wasting points that can be better spent elsewhere.
War Brave: I don't like the idea of giving a taunt a damage modifier, because it simply causes players to go spending on it simply because "lol more dmg", and then you get 3-5 people in an MPA mashing War Cry and it's a mess. Main-class-only may alleviate it, but not solve it.
Automate Halfline is still garbage: Does anyone even USE this any more?


Literally the only two things that they need to do to make tanks functional is turn HP Up 2/3 into 1-point investments with Massive Hunter purchase dependency, and make Guard Stance Up give 200% passive threat.

[gigawuts]

Just make it so that only one ilmegid of yours can be onscreen at a time. It prevents spamming and doesn't take any groundbreaking steps to try and change/balance something. Oh you casted another one? Well now the first just instantly disappeared.

This does resolve some of its more irritating issues. It's not a total and complete solution, but it's simple and intuitive enough to patch up a lot of the problems with ilmegid.

[Kondibon]

Automate Halfline is still garbage: Does anyone even USE this any more?

http://i.imgur.com/4ki6A5w.gif

I like the idea of a passive hate generation skill though. Likewise, there should be a way for other classes to decrease the hate they get. Confusion is really good for this as a ranged class like force or ranger, but it doesn't work on most bosses. :/

[ShinMaruku]

I wonder if they are buffing Ilfoi :E

[UnLucky]

Literally the only two things that they need to do to make tanks functional is turn HP Up 2/3 into 1-point investments with Massive Hunter purchase dependency, and make Guard Stance Up give 200% passive threat.

Massive Hunter is garbo tho. It should be a 1SP passive skill but no damage resist.

And then to ensure 98% of the playerbase doesn't get it, make it Guard Stance only.

[Gardios]

Don't forget that Guard Stance only protects from striking and shooting, when technique damage is just as common against bosses. Guard Stance Up is even worse...

Also, Automate Halfline is more of use for glass cannons despite being in the tank tree. You don't really need it with a tank spec, especially with Healing Guard now..

[Kondibon]

@Tanking: Tanking isn't viable because of how easy it is to just completely avoid damage. We need more hard to avoid, but weak attacks instead of everything doing buttloads of damage. This encourages tanky builds because beefier characters can still attack while taking those hits, while glassier characters have to stop and dodge or block.


Do techs/pa's scale differently with tattk/sattk or something?

Never knew that.I forgot to respond to this. What I meant was that the difference in power between average gear/builds and going all out is too big, there isn't a moderate and clear upper limit to things or a clear cut minium. The result is that they can't balance the game properly. Make things too strong and people HAVE to invest in high end gear that they might not even get, to even stand a chance. Conversly, if you make things weak enough for average or low end players to do with little hassle then the players who DO get lucky/rich enough to have high end gear/builds just wreck everything and that becomes the "minimum" people expect and get used to.


Don't forget that Guard Stance only protects from striking and shooting, when technique damage is just as common against bosses. Guard Stance Up is even worse...

Also, Automate Halfline is more of use for glass cannons despite being in the tank tree. You don't really need it with a tank spec, especially with Healing Guard now..
See what I said above. This is what I was talking about. The whole point of Automate halfline is to take advantage of hyper armor, but few people do despite hunter having TONS of hyper armor PAs.

[horseship]

I fail to see how automate halfline is "garbage", especially for gu/hu. If you only pack trimates, every time you get hit down to half hp you're instantly back to perfect keeper. No Guld Milla needed, although it might be nice to have on a separate palette in case you get hit to 51-99% health. In this case, it might be useful to have as little max HP as possible, so you have a higher chance of proccing automate every time you get hit. Not exactly tanking, but it improves the perfect keeper game significantly.

[Gardios]

@Kondi: They specifically mentioned tanking in the slides though, so their intention with Guard Stance is traditional tanking, despite it not even being possible currently. =/

As for Automate, it doesn't really matter. When I'm hit during an attack I survive anyway and can chug a mate/Resta afterwards. Healing Guard is still an option for canceling early or if you're not in a PA in the first place.

Also, aren't the only super armor PAs Over End and Guilty Break? And I guess WL has... Air Pocket Swing and something else, I dunno, I'm not using WL. <_<

[Kondibon]

@Kondi: They specifically mentioned tanking in the slides though, so their intention with Guard Stance is traditional tanking, despite it not even being possible currently. =/

As for Automate, it doesn't really matter. When I'm hit during an attack I survive anyway and can chug a mate/Resta afterwards. Healing Guard is still an option for canceling early or if you're not in a PA in the first place.That's what traditional tanking IS standing in front of something so it hits you in the face instead of your friends while you whack it back in the face. I don't see how having an auto heal isn't "traditional" tanking, or how automate somehow goes against guard stance. Yes, it's good for glassy builds too, but they'll also trigger it faster and more often, resulting in them running out of mates faster, and it's still possible to die if you're at 60% health and an enemy does 70% of your health in damage as apposed to 30%

And again, stopping to use a mate is time you could be spending hitting the enemy.

EDIT: I do think guard stance need to do something about tech damage though. Hell, I think fury stance should affect techs too. It's not like it's gonna be out of line with other damage bonuses after the rebalance.

[UnLucky]

Don't forget that Guard Stance only protects from striking and shooting, when technique damage is just as common against bosses. Guard Stance Up is even worse...
It's kinda funny that the new tree puts GSU right above the vastly superior Flash/Tech Guards, forcing you to get the worthless skill that you didn't have to before except for Absorption (which is now separated).

It kinda seems like they want people to go Guard Stance+JA+War Brave instead of full on tank since you can get all the stanceless damage boosts without even touching Fury.

But... why would you though?

[Remz69]

It's kinda funny that the new tree puts GSU right above the vastly superior Flash/Tech Guards, forcing you to get the worthless skill that you didn't have to before except for Absorption (which is now separated).

It kinda seems like they want people to go Guard Stance+JA+War Brave instead of full on tank since you can get all the stanceless damage boosts without even touching Fury.

But... why would you though?

new guy is balancing classes around their intended purposes right ? (future ain't looking good for Hu, i don't see the game making tanks relevant any time soon)
maybe he thought that would make for a good off-tank with the PA buffs :-?

[Xaelouse]

off-tank is the best this game can do. Even then all it translates to is more damage.
Guard stance can be saved if there was a just counter JA bonus exclusive to it or something as game changing as that.

[gigawuts]

off-tank is the best this game can do. Even then all it translates to is more damage.
Guard stance can be saved if there was a just counter JA bonus exclusive to it or something as game changing as that.

Guard Stance could be saved if it came with actual benefits besides surviving damage, because that's not always going to be very helpful.

I'm talking things like boosting War Cry's duration and range, or giving a War Cry AOE like if you cast Shifta every x seconds except it raised hate.

Shit, let that AOE hate burst get boosted by Territory Burst.

There are so many options at hand, but Sega doesn't seem interested in taking them. Does it just not realize how unhelpful tanking is in 99% of situations? Do they really want to pigeonhole it into just being for bad solo players who can't beat a boss?

Who F'in knows.

[Kondibon]

Guard Stance could be saved if it came with actual benefits besides surviving damage, because that's not always going to be very helpful.

I'm talking things like boosting War Cry's duration and range, or giving a War Cry AOE like if you cast Shifta every x seconds except it raised hate.

Shit, let that AOE hate burst get boosted by Territory Burst.

There are so many options at hand, but Sega doesn't seem interested in taking them. Does it just not realize how unhelpful tanking is in 99% of situations? Do they really want to pigeonhole it into just being for bad solo players who can't beat a boss?

Who F'in knows.Remember how we were talking about how there needs to be a passive hate bonus skill... that's it... that's what extra thing guard stance should do.

[Zyrusticae]

It is very odd that Showtime has bonus threat generation and Guard Stance does not.

Very conspicuous, indeed.

[Gardios]

Showtime = War Cry

[Kondibon]

Showtime = War CryShowtime has a secondary hate generation effect, that increases the ammount of hate you generate, not just "taunting" what it hits.

The point though, is that it's possible, so hunter should have something like that if they're meant to tank at all.

[Gardios]

War Cry has increased hate generation, too, doesn't it? Even though the written tooltip doesn't mention it.

[Kondibon]

War Cry has increased hate generation, too, doesn't it? Even though the written tooltip doesn't mention it.... does it?

[UnLucky]

That's all it did before they made it a real taunt.

But it's worthless as an active skill that lasts 10-30s at a time.

[Kondibon]

That's all it did before they made it a real taunt.

But it's worthless as an active skill that lasts 10-30s at a time.I was gonna say, being an active skill instead of a passive effect still makes it pretty lame. I also still like the idea of guard stance generating hate on it's own, with warcry being a "look at me right the fuck now" button for things like TD.

[Gardios]

Not saying I disagree (because I don't—tying the passive hate multiplier to the taunt is awful), just that it's there. I'd rather have it on GS.

[Kondibon]

Not saying I disagree (because I don't—tying the passive hate multiplier to the taunt is awful), just that it's there. I'd rather have it on GS.Oh, I know, I just never knew how war cry worked. o wo It was a genuine question.

[ClothoBuer]

Remember how we were talking about how there needs to be a passive hate bonus skill... that's it... that's what extra thing guard stance should do.

Finally, someone who understands. The biggest crutch to tanking isn't damage reduction, it's their lack of mob control. The only two hate modifiers in the game, War Cry and Showtime, both require activation, meaning you're both rooted and not attacking. Converting Guard Stance Up to something like a flat 20% reduction against everything and a 200% hate boost for the stance's duration can literally fix the entire situation. Everything beyond that is just nitpicking for finer details.

I still stand by my opinion that Automate Halfline is garbage. In the years I've been playing I've yet to see anyone using it, let alone recommend it. If it were a one point requirement, then I could justify it, but what it is now is terrible.

[Kondibon]

I still stand by my opinion that Automate Halfline is garbage. In the years I've been playing I've yet to see anyone using it, let alone recommend it. If it were a one point requirement, then I could justify it, but what it is now is terrible.It's a life saver, it's like having a stronger auto heal on your mag but with a shorter cool down, and with a 100% activation rate at max level... and they stack. In a tanky build Automate makes you almost invincible.

[UnLucky]

Pretty much everyone had it back when Fury was trash, where were you?

100% chance to heal any time your health drops below 50% is incredibly useful for survivability.

[ReverseSeraf]

It's a life saver, it's like having a stronger auto heal on your mag but with a shorter cool down, and with a 100% activation rate at max level... and they stack. In a tanky build Automate makes you almost invincible.

I'll just leave this here :wacko:

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23596178

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23596178 If you have an actual niconico account

[Kondibon]

I'll just leave this here :wacko:

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23596178

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23596178 If you have an actual niconico accounthttp://i.imgur.com/xvYonmo.gif

[ClothoBuer]

It's a life saver, it's like having a stronger auto heal on your mag but with a shorter cool down, and with a 100% activation rate at max level... and they stack. In a tanky build Automate makes you almost invincible.

Fair enough, but it still doesn't offset the fact you have to give up 10 SP just to make it worthwhile, when those points are already hard enough to get what you need as it currently stands. None of my builds have ever gone near it, and unless something changes down the road it'll probably stay that way.


http://i.imgur.com/xvYonmo.gif

One instance where it's useful, and an outlying one at that. Dude had to stack HP like a motherf***er though just to even make it work. I'd be more curious to see their build and equipment to know how they got it there.

[HIT0SHI]

It is true that player A LOT of health but the damage taken never got that high. At most it was around the 800's. How ever that player had Massive Hunter before the attack so it might have reached 1k.

Still, that looked even better than the Gunner's version, gonna consider it on EP3.

[ReverseSeraf]

It is true that player A LOT of health but the damage taken never got that high. At most it was around the 800's. How ever that player had Massive Hunter before the attack so it might have reached 1k.

Still, that looked even better than the Gunner's version, gonna consider it on EP3.

If you actually look more closely, the first hit was 1.6k. So 2k HP was almost required.


One instance where it's useful, and an outlying one at that. Dude had to stack HP like a motherf***er though just to even make it work. I'd be more curious to see their build and equipment to know how they got it there.

The point of the video was to show a guaranteed 1-shot scenario regardless of how tanky you built: without Automate, the guy would have gone down. If he can take that many hits and still survive, then it does prove Kondibon's point that you're practically invincible as long as you have the mates to support it. The extremity of the scenario in the video proves all other degrees of usefulness for Automate in a tank build.

But yet again, it all comes down to proper mob control (like you pointed out); otherwise, there really is no real reason to take that many hits...

[horseship]

Fair enough, but it still doesn't offset the fact you have to give up 10 SP just to make it worthwhile, when those points are already hard enough to get what you need as it currently stands. None of my builds have ever gone near it, and unless something changes down the road it'll probably stay that way.



One instance where it's useful, and an outlying one at that. Dude had to stack HP like a motherf***er though just to even make it work. I'd be more curious to see their build and equipment to know how they got it there.

Are you forgetting the fact that you get like 20 extra SP on the hunter tree with the episode 3 tree, even after maxing every fury stance skill? I thought that's why we were discussing this in the first place. It's not too viable right now, but that's only due to skill point limitations. It's still a good skill. Now that HU as a subclass gets a ton of free points, you might as well spend it on survival since there's nothing else to get really.

[UnLucky]

Fair enough, but it still doesn't offset the fact you have to give up 10 SP just to make it worthwhile, when those points are already hard enough to get what you need as it currently stands. None of my builds have ever gone near it, and unless something changes down the road it'll probably stay that way.
10 SP before it's worthwhile.

Where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah, War Cry, Iron Will, Flash Guard 1&2&Tech Guard, Massive Hunter...

Automate has always been accessible to a defensive build, so what do you get instead? Don't say Guard Stance Up.

One instance where it's useful, and an outlying one at that. Dude had to stack HP like a motherf***er though just to even make it work. I'd be more curious to see their build and equipment to know how they got it there.
It's useful any time you take damage. And since you're already stacking damage resistance you're less likely to get oneshot so it's practically immortality.

[Kondibon]

Fair enough, but it still doesn't offset the fact you have to give up 10 SP just to make it worthwhile, when those points are already hard enough to get what you need as it currently stands. None of my builds have ever gone near it, and unless something changes down the road it'll probably stay that way.Errr, that's kinda the reason people don't take it anymore, it's not that it's bad, it's just that hunter is too strapped for points.

That's going to be a non-issue after the skill tree rebalances.


10 SP before it's worthwhile.

Where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah, War Cry, Iron Will, Flash Guard 1&2&Tech Guard, Massive Hunter...

Automate has always been accessible to a defensive build, so what do you get instead? Don't say Guard Stance Up.
Even without a defensive build, if you're only subbing hunter you lose what... 10% damage in echange for auto healing at half health?

[ClothoBuer]

Are you forgetting the fact that you get like 20 extra SP on the hunter tree with the episode 3 tree, even after maxing every fury stance skill? I thought that's why we were discussing this in the first place. It's not too viable right now, but that's only due to skill point limitations. It's still a good skill. Now that HU as a subclass gets a ton of free points, you might as well spend it on survival since there's nothing else to get really.

No one in here is discussing Fury Stance, read up.


10 SP before it's worthwhile.

Where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah, War Cry, Iron Will, Flash Guard 1&2&Tech Guard, Massive Hunter...

Automate has always been accessible to a defensive build, so what do you get instead? Don't say Guard Stance Up.

It's useful any time you take damage. And since you're already stacking damage resistance you're less likely to get oneshot so it's practically immortality.

S-DEF Up actually, stats>utility.


Errr, that's kinda the reason people don't take it anymore, it's not that it's bad, it's just that hunter is too strapped for points.

That's going to be a non-issue after the skill tree rebalances.


Even without a defensive build, if you're only subbing hunter you lose what... 10% damage in echange for auto healing at half health?

Tank-build Hunters will still be strapped for points after the rebalance. Assuming a build like this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdod BIblkfGKcAfrAcK0000006doIn0000008doib0000006do0000 00lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000f), you have 10 points to spare, with HP Up 2/3, Automate Halfline, S-Def Up, Flash Guard 2, Never Give Up, Absorption (If you don't roll Gulds), and possibly closing out Guard Stance Up. Even if we count GSUp as irrelevant (which for the investment is the same as S-Def Up, so I can see it), that's still 7 relevant AND useful skills that you have to decide on. And Fury Hunters? They can close out their core with 60 points, and invest in luxury skills.

It's still a critical issue, and along with the sub-par skill selection it just adds more stones to the sinking ship.

[Kondibon]

No one in here is discussing Fury Stance, read up.



S-DEF Up actually, stats>utility.



Tank-build Hunters will still be strapped for points after the rebalance. Assuming a build like this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdod BIblkfGKcAfrAcK0000006doIn0000008doib0000006do0000 00lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000f), you have 10 points to spare, with HP Up 2/3, Automate Halfline, S-Def Up, Flash Guard 2, Never Give Up, Absorption (If you don't roll Gulds), and possibly closing out Guard Stance Up. Even if we count GSUp as irrelevant (which for the investment is the same as S-Def Up, so I can see it), that's still 7 relevant AND useful skills that you have to decide on. And Fury Hunters? They can close out their core with 60 points, and invest in luxury skills.

It's still a critical issue, and along with the sub-par skill selection it just adds more stones to the sinking ship.Maxed s-def up is +50 sdef... that's -10 damage. If you're telling me -10 damage from a single damage type is more useful than instantly recovering when your hp is knocked below 50% then I don't know what to say.

[horseship]

If anything, Iron Will is skippable in a tank build. Because what, are you still going to die when you're taking like 20% damage? Also, not too much of a reason to max HP up 1 really. Too little utility per skill point.

[branflakes325]

No one in here is discussing Fury Stance, read up.



S-DEF Up actually, stats>utility.



Tank-build Hunters will still be strapped for points after the rebalance. Assuming a build like this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdod BIblkfGKcAfrAcK0000006doIn0000008doib0000006do0000 00lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000f), you have 10 points to spare, with HP Up 2/3, Automate Halfline, S-Def Up, Flash Guard 2, Never Give Up, Absorption (If you don't roll Gulds), and possibly closing out Guard Stance Up. Even if we count GSUp as irrelevant (which for the investment is the same as S-Def Up, so I can see it), that's still 7 relevant AND useful skills that you have to decide on. And Fury Hunters? They can close out their core with 60 points, and invest in luxury skills.

It's still a critical issue, and along with the sub-par skill selection it just adds more stones to the sinking ship.

Guard tree investment plus Iron Will is redundant. Unless you take a bunch of powerful non-striking hits simultaneously Iron Will is going to be completely useless. Investing the IW points in Automate Halfline and and dumping the remaining 12 points (GSU only needs 3?) into Flash Guard 2 and Absorption makes a lot more sense.

[UnLucky]

Even without a defensive build, if you're only subbing hunter you lose what... 10% damage in echange for auto healing at half health?
10% too much

S-DEF Up actually, stats>utility.
:L

[ClothoBuer]

Maxed s-def up is +50 sdef... that's -10 damage. If you're telling me -10 damage from a single damage type is more useful than instantly recovering when your hp is knocked below 50% then I don't know what to say.

Well, I'll give you plenty of time to think something up, because that's exactly what I'm saying. Raw stats don't give flat bonuses, it scales according to player and target level. For example, just to test the differences out, I made a straight Flash Guard build, and straight Guard Stance/Up/S-Def Up build. Incoming melee damage (which accounts for the majority of all attacks) was around 50 points lower than with Flash Guards on mobs, and well over 100 on bosses, with maybe 50 points difference in ranged and tech damage. That's just adding 100 S-Def and a 10% Strike damage reduction. The higher the levels get, the more value it's going to have.

Yes, I'll admit that maybe I was harsh in my assessment of Halfline, but with the Iron Will buff adding 5 seconds of invincibility, I still can't justify the loss of health or defense in exchange for a free heal.

[branflakes325]

Well, I'll give you plenty of time to think something up, because that's exactly what I'm saying. Raw stats don't give flat bonuses, it scales according to player and target level. For example, just to test the differences out, I made a straight Flash Guard build, and straight Guard Stance/Up/S-Def Up build. Incoming melee damage (which accounts for the majority of all attacks) was around 50 points lower than with Flash Guards on mobs, and well over 100 on bosses, with maybe 50 points difference in ranged and tech damage. That's just adding 100 S-Def and a 10% Strike damage reduction. The higher the levels get, the more value it's going to have.

Yes, I'll admit that maybe I was harsh in my assessment of Halfline, but with the Iron Will buff adding 5 seconds of invincibility, I still can't justify the loss of health or defense in exchange for a free heal.

Either way, you're not going to be dying with Automate. Even if you're a female newman force, you're just not going to die if you have Automate Halfline and any sort of guard build with decent units. The same can't be said about guard builds without Automate Halfline, because any sort of stun-lock combos can still kill you by taking away your chance to recover. If you're going for a guard build you better be prepared to throw yourself in any normal mob situation. Otherwise what's the point?

[Kondibon]

Well, I'll give you plenty of time to think something up, because that's exactly what I'm saying. Raw stats don't give flat bonuses, it scales according to player and target level. For example, just to test the differences out, I made a straight Flash Guard build, and straight Guard Stance/Up/S-Def Up build. Incoming melee damage (which accounts for the majority of all attacks) was around 50 points lower than with Flash Guards on mobs, and well over 100 on bosses, with maybe 50 points difference in ranged and tech damage. That's just adding 100 S-Def and a 10% Strike damage reduction. The higher the levels get, the more value it's going to have.

Yes, I'll admit that maybe I was harsh in my assessment of Halfline, but with the Iron Will buff adding 5 seconds of invincibility, I still can't justify the loss of health or defense in exchange for a free heal.I'm confused. When did you test this? What mobs? What level? Guard stance+SG up gives 35% damage resistance and 250 s-def, or are you saying it was 100 s-def and strike resistance than the flash guard build? Was this before it was buffed? And as far as I know stats DO give flat bonuses. What makes you think they scale with levels? I'm missing a lot of information here.

[LonelyGaruga]

Stats are flat bonuses. Level is completely unused in calculating damage. That bit about scaling is complete nonsense.

[HIT0SHI]

If you actually look more closely, the first hit was 1.6k. So 2k HP was almost required.

*re-watches the video*
How odd that it's only the first hit. Still though, looks helpful after getting Fury Stance if you have spare points. :-)

[Naizuya Tatzubani]

All of these fighter buffs.

All of these braver buffs.

I might STFU and get a VPN afterall

[ClothoBuer]

Posting at work, so I'm gonna try to keep it simple because doing this on my phone is suffering.

@Kondibon: was a few months ago, whenever the last tree resets came around, used Elder for the boss and TD for mobs. The two builds consisted of one devoted to S-Def/Hollow and the other full Flash Guard.

@LonelyGaruga: Okay, I derped on that. I totally misread this faq (https://sites.google.com/site/pso2db/home/faqs), but it's still implying that stats do scale against each other. Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing you source where you got your information.

Sad part of this argument is it could've been solved hours ago if we simply had theorycrafting and stat weights.

[LonelyGaruga]

Shifta and Deband scale based on the level of the tech (and, if applicable, skills that boost their efficacy) and provide an increase based on the player's base stats, but I don't see anything else that could imply anything beyond that.

I use this resource (http://pso2wiki.net/%E3%83%80%E3%83%A1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E8%A8%88%E7%A E%97) for damage calculation. It provides the damage formulas for calculating player and enemy damage, and doesn't mention level involved anywhere. Player and enemy level have no bearing on anything involving damage calculations.

[UnLucky]

Defense is directly subtracted from Attack; (S-Atk - S-Def) and similar.

50 S-Def is huge at a low level with weak attacks against weak units.

But once you start amassing thousands of stats, an extra 50 doesn't seem as much in comparison. You would need 10% of the enemy's Atk to mitigate 10% of their Atk, or 10% Res.

Not sure how much Atk mobs or bosses have, but it's certainly higher than 1000 since people clearly still take damage with as much.

Though it's not exactly true that 50 Def = 10 damage taken directly off the top; mobs have "PA" multipliers too.

Besides, the Flash Guards reduce Ranged damage as well, with Tech being a sizeable 30%.

[suzaku0zero0]

in my hu tree I got 5 sp spare after maxing the Fury S Up2, Fury combo 2 branches, all 3 gears, healing guard, 1 sp in rare mastery and max fury gear boost.
Where would you recommend spending the last 5 sp? iron will or step advance?

[Bloothehegdehog]

Maybe I'll finally be able to go HU/FI like I want if the healing buffs prove useful enough. I can't stand not being able to regain hp other than with the use of -mates since they're limited so my sub is TE, but I really wanna use FI weapons because of FFXIV, eck.

[LonelyGaruga]

Why not use Fi/Br for Just Reversal Cover? 20% HP regen every time you Just Reversal.

[Maenara]

in my hu tree I got 5 sp spare after maxing the Fury S Up2, Fury combo 2 branches, all 3 gears, healing guard, 1 sp in rare mastery and max fury gear boost.
Where would you recommend spending the last 5 sp? iron will or step advance?

Are you kidding?

[UnLucky]

Shouldn't it be 10SP? You don't want Fury Crit maxed unless you're a Fighter main, in which case you wouldn't need Fury Gear maxed. I'd fill up Iron Will, though one point in War Cry can sometimes be useful, and if you've only got a couple left you could put one or two in Step Advance. Possibly one in Automate maybe...

[Dephinix]

Automate, for those who are not careful and call for constant res. Insert "OP Braver gif here". Automate is a huge crutch, which I was told to use in my beginning life of a hunter last year, but now, really? Maybe in that ultimate quest, but.. wow. What happened to don't get hit? Did DPS spiral out of control again? Even with my guard hunter, just guard is free and heal for 5%? Automate should be a last resource. Hell, I just recover on my Saber cosplay way more than any tech damage I got. haven't tested ranged damage, but that seems to be vhardas "FIRIN LASER" or those other quarry bots, which is pretty easy to dodge.