So...since Yu Suganuma is in charge of Ep.3 and Balancing.. Pt.II

[Sizustar]

Now that the balance change info is out.
Did it meet or not meet your expecation

Last topic, if you left your thought, you can check it
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219995

[IndigoNovember]

I'll need to see the Photon Art and Technique buffs and nerfs before I can pass judgement.

[Unnamed Player]

Nerfing Gunner because it’s "OP"
Buffing Ranger because it’s "too weak"
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

[NoiseHERO]

Nerfing Gunner because it’s "OP"
Buffing Ranger because it’s "too weak"
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

Well actually...- know what who cares...

I PLAY THE TAIWAN VERSION ANYWAY ):J /cool guy nod

[obsexed]

ranger always been beast though.. `_`

[Punisher106]

I'm a bit peeved at the nerf to WB. It's the single most important support skill in the game, to me. I know it's a 45% drop, but still.

[Gardios]

WB wasn't nerfed enough imo.

[Unnamed Player]

I'm a bit peeved at the nerf to WB. It's the single most important support skill in the game, to me. I know it's a 45% drop, but still.Actually it's just a 15% drop.

[D-Inferno]

I honestly felt WB should have been nerfed to x2, or even x1.5, since I feel it makes bosses die too quickly. A EXP reward boost and boosted drops would compensate for that.

[Punisher106]

Actually it's just a 15% drop.

Really? I heard it was down to 255% from 300%.

[D-Inferno]

Really? I heard it was down to 255% from 300%.

255/300 = 0.85

[Punisher106]

255/300 = 0.85

I didn't mean overall percentages, I literally meant the amount. :T

[Daiyousei]

but hey, you get to keep your weak bullet loaded.

[The_Brimada]

but hey, you get to keep your weak bullet loaded.

Which is why I don't really consider this a nerf at all. I don't mind sacrificing some of the power in exchange for the utility.

Also where's the poll option for he did better than I expected?

[pkemr4]

they should adjust the SH boss's to accommodate for the nerfs.

[UnLucky]

I honestly felt WB should have been nerfed to x2, or even x1.5, since I feel it makes bosses die too quickly. A EXP reward boost and boosted drops would compensate for that.
I've always thought it should replace the target part's natural resistance with whatever their highest weakness already was.

So putting it on Ragne's leg would make it take the same damage as its core

[D-Inferno]

That would defeat the concept of trying to attack the enemy's weakpoint in the first place, though.

Here's hoping Ultimate/whatever boss have some kind of resistance to WB and Banish Arrow to prevent a snoozefest.

[Taskus]

So far (in my opinion) it looks better than it is now. I don't play all the classes, but some of the tree skill position adjustments got me excited

[Lostbob117]

I'm holding my opinion for now on the classes.

Though from how I see it now. COs are actually worth doing and you don't have to run TACOs daily now so it's in a way, easier to make meseta from COs and can do multiple at a time. Which is how it should have been in the first place.

[UnLucky]

That would defeat the concept of trying to attack the enemy's weakpoint in the first place, though.

Here's hoping Ultimate/whatever boss have some kind of resistance to WB and Banish Arrow to prevent a snoozefest.
Exactly. It's a quality of life thing for Ranger. Awkward weak points can be repositioned, like Kartargots. I'd add a special clause that makes it always count for WHA, like against Micdahs or other enemies that have absolutely no actual weak points.

And it'd just be purely for convenience, like blasting Malmoth big fat ass instead of the humpback, or faster part breaking. You wouldn't absolutely require a Ranger in every single party to be effective, but it can still make things easier.

Edit: Actually, in the case of De Malmoth, changing the body to a 2x multiplier like the face/back would actually be MORE than the old 300% WB since it normally resists damage by 50% (so 1.5x with WB).

[GHNeko]

im so excited. Suganuma is a name I'll remember now.

Also laughing @ people who think WB nerf was too much or not needed.

It should have been nerfed more.

[Zyrusticae]

Nerfing Gunner because it’s "OP"
Buffing Ranger because it’s "too weak"
Outside of a scant handful of PAs (the most OP of which is getting nerfed) and WB (which is also getting nerfed, albeit not by very much), Ranger really is pretty weak. How many times do you see people running around with launchers out, anyway?

Gunners also got a massive buff to chaining (a skill for DOUBLE credit per attack, plus CD reduction), AND 8/10 TMG PAs are getting buffed (you can probably guess which two are being left untouched). And Showtime might actually not be a complete waste of time now, maybe, possibly. 45s duration, 1m cooldown, faster gear building, aggro gen (to really take advantage of the OP invincibility frames), +15% power after 10 seconds, +50pp(!!) over the duration... well, it'll be worth trying out, at the very least.

[UnLucky]

im so excited. Suganuma is a name I'll remember now.

Also laughing @ people who think WB nerf was too much or not needed.

It should have been nerfed more.
The thing is, it pretty much has to be more than 2x to make a lot of things count for WHA that take 50% damage normally.

As in, 201% damage. I'd be OK with that.

[Zyrusticae]

The thing is, it pretty much has to be more than 2x to make a lot of things count for WHA that take 50% damage normally.

As in, 201% damage. I'd be OK with that.
That's kind of an ugly number, tho.

I'd go for 210, maybe. I mean... look at that. Isn't that just the most elegant number? Two prime digits followed by a zero. Instead of a prime, a zero, and then another prime... that's just kind of ugly.

...The aesthetics of numbers are so very weird, now that I think about it.

[untrustful]

When it comes to offensive damage, ranger only has gunslash. Launchers and rifles are weak compared to the almighty conjoined twin weapon.

[UnLucky]

Yeah, that's just the minimum I'd consider for a solo Ranger, unless it forced WHA to always work even if the struck part doesn't take over 1x damage.

It can be 210%, or 220%, or 225%, or 255% if it's gotta be divisible by 5.

[Sizustar]

Well, in the slide, he did say these are not the final change, but there can be more change in the future depending on player feedback, stage, and job combo.

http://i.imgur.com/SJKu7VG.jpg

[Alenoir]

When it comes to offensive damage, ranger only has gunslash. Launchers and rifles are weak compared to the almighty conjoined twin weapon.

This haven't been true since Lv16 Diffuse.


How many times do you see people running around with launchers out, anyway?

People will probably launcher more if they don't have to constantly keep WB. Which is getting fixed in Ep 3 so hooray.

[Gardios]

The thing is, it pretty much has to be more than 2x to make a lot of things count for WHA that take 50% damage normally.

As in, 201% damage. I'd be OK with that.

Why's that a problem though? That stuff isn't supposed to be vulnerable anyway. And that still leaves spots that take less than 50% damage.

[UnLucky]

Because it sucks playing as Ranger when the enemy has no weak point?

50% resistance is a lot more common, though. I'd have to check to see how many things take less than that without having anything higher as well.

[Gardios]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a class not being able to handle everything without hiccups, especially if you choose to solo.

[UnLucky]

The hiccup is having to waste an active cooldown on those enemies!

Otherwise a large majority of your damage disappears. Like you do less than one third as much.

That's not just inconvenient, it's crippling!

[Gardios]

A mere 4 shots isn't gonna change much in case of normal enemies. :V

[Enforcer MKV]

I went from "Nope, I'm just gonna quit unless I can connect normally" to "I want to play this game again, even if I have to VPN to do it."

....I'd say that about speaks for itself.

Final say though? I don't know just how this is going to change the dynamic of classes and such....so I suppose we'll see after they come about. Still waiting to see.

[gigawuts]

Fixing weak bullet:

Change hitboxes to have a new value: Weakness

If a hitbox is weak, it takes bonus damage from Weak Hit Advance and Weak Stance. If it is not, it does not.

All heads: Weak
All existing weak points: Weak

Now for the changes, for a couple examples...
Micda backs: Weak (Despite currently taking 1x damage, making them not weak).
Micda heads: Weak (Currently NOT weakpoints, despite making the head KTEW sound when struck with a bullet).
Anything pinged with Weak Bullet, regardless of damage mod: Weak

So on and so forth.

Then nerf Weak Bullet to 1.5x damage. (Then hopefully give it a couple expansions, like Break Bullet, for more damage to breakable parts, etc.)

[GHNeko]

The thing is, it pretty much has to be more than 2x to make a lot of things count for WHA that take 50% damage normally.

As in, 201% damage. I'd be OK with that.

Which is fine with me. I just think that 255% is still too much.

The game shouldnt be centered around WB @ high level I feel.

Not that it is, but it's really fucking stupid to see people drop out of EQs because "OMG NO WB!?!?!?!" or "WOW THERES A RA HERE AND HE'S NOT USING WB/SHOOTING WB ON THE WRONG SPOT!?"

like really guys

[Shinamori]

Having no WB makes for a long fight, especially Luther. Mostly because people bring underleveled classes in to these MPAs and EQs.

[gigawuts]

Which is fine with me. I just think that 255% is still too much.

The game shouldnt be centered around WB @ high level I feel.

Not that it is, but it's really fucking stupid to see people drop out of EQs because "OMG NO WB!?!?!?!" or "WOW THERES A RA HERE AND HE'S NOT USING WB/SHOOTING WB ON THE WRONG SPOT!?"

like really guys

No, I agree completely. I've been saying it since launch: Having the game completely revolve around a single function of a single class is the worst possible game design, especially in a more casually-oriented game like this.

There's too much reliance on that single class for speedruns. The rest of your composition can vary wildly depending on skill and coordination, but nothing replaces that WB when it comes to killing a boss in like a single second or less.

[Zyrusticae]

Well, there is the silver lining that Gunner is now going to be incredibly OP against bosses with chaining being buffed so much. But of course they're still more OP when used in tandem with WB anyway, so I guess that's not really a fix, heh.

Speaking of, anyone wanna guess how fucking fast people will take down bosses now in parties with lots of rangers and gunners? Because this shit's gettin' silly.

[Melodys]

Well, there is the silver lining that Gunner is now going to be incredibly OP against bosses with chaining being buffed so much. But of course they're still more OP when used in tandem with WB anyway, so I guess that's not really a fix, heh.

Speaking of, anyone wanna guess how fucking fast people will take down bosses now in parties with lots of rangers and gunners? Because this shit's gettin' silly.

It just makes Gu/Ra and Br/Ra even more OP against bosses and Gu/Hu biting the dust with both mobs and bosses.

[ShinMaruku]

Next guy they should hire is Hediki Kamiya.

[Dnd]

The fact that fighter stances are being buffed slightly and they have no reduction (below 100%) when attacking the wrong angle is more then enough for me.

The skill-trees for both Hu and Fi look sleek as hell now and it leaves me wondering why it took so long for them all to get this touchup..

Limit break for fighters tho? ugh, better get your moons ready for terrible fighters and people subbing /fi...

I have a feeling katana Fi/Br will be a very strong thing for ep3. Limit break + katana escape with brave stances buff and crit strike skill (and tech pa art skill even?) will make it pretty potent i think.

[Daiyousei]

My my, look who voted to bring Sakai back.

[Sanguine2009]

this new guy made me eat my words and went far beyond my expectations, i definitely like the changes so far though i will need to see them in action for a truly final opinion but so far? yeah definitely keep him in charge

[final_attack]

Very nice Amazing for most part, except ..... S-Roll JA bonus part. Would love something that can be used with combo system (opened /Fi Sub), something like another Perfect Keeper, or make S-Roll-JA bonus keep proc every consecutive JA after S-Roll. I won't mind more reduced damage for S-Roll-JA should that happen :3

But, that would mean, I'm gonna need more time to grind Fi, which is pretty luxury now (no time due to irl) OTL

[Xaelouse]

If FOTM is still a thing, he failed. Other than that, he did a great job.

[Rien]

Next guy they should hire is Hediki Kamiya.

Can we finally have a bayonetta collab now

[GHNeko]

Limit break for fighters tho? ugh, better get your moons ready for terrible fighters and people subbing /fi...

you know...

you could just leave them dead. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


My my, look who voted to bring Sakai back.

the suspense is killing me

who done it?

[Xaelouse]

The fact that fighter stances are being buffed slightly and they have no reduction (below 100%) when attacking the wrong angle is more then enough for me.

The skill-trees for both Hu and Fi look sleek as hell now and it leaves me wondering why it took so long for them all to get this touchup..

Limit break for fighters tho? ugh, better get your moons ready for terrible fighters and people subbing /fi...

I have a feeling katana Fi/Br will be a very strong thing for ep3. Limit break + katana escape with brave stances buff and crit strike skill (and tech pa art skill even?) will make it pretty potent i think.

I think Limit break will be overrated but fun to play with regardless.
the tech pa art skill seems unfit for plenty of weapons when it comes to DPS. Why not dedicate all of your PP to hatou rindou instead of hatou-rindou->(a filler PA that drains more PP and might not be in range to hit)-> slightly-boosted hatou-rindou? Assuming the skill allows that loop
but by god this skill we be the best thing ever for knuckles and twin dagger

[Daiyousei]

the suspense is killing me

who done it?

http://puu.sh/asPHe/400567d152.png

[UnLucky]

I think Limit break will be overrated but fun to play with regardless.
the tech pa art skill seems unfit for plenty of weapons when it comes to DPS. Why not dedicate all of your PP to hatou rindou instead of hatou-rindou->(a filler PA that drains more PP and might not be in range to hit)-> slightly-boosted hatou-rindou? Assuming the skill allows that loop
but by god this skill we be the best thing ever for knuckles and twin dagger

Really makes me want to be able to set an even number of PAs on a weapon so you can alternate.

Unless the new skill works with normal attacks, but if that were the case it'd completely ruin the intent.

[Demon-]

Yeah I think he did a good job of rebalancing. I probably wouldn't have nerfed fury stance though. I would've just removed the ratk boost from it. As for the other nerfs I think they were needed.

[Shiyo]

I'm a bit peeved at the nerf to WB. It's the single most important support skill in the game, to me. I know it's a 45% drop, but still.

I'm peeved over it too, It should've been nerfed to a 20% damage increase or removed entirely.

Guess I'll have to keep leaving EQ's where we don't have at least 2 rangers, as well as the rest of the playerbase! Yay for mandatory things only a single class out of 8(?) brings.

[Great Pan]

Bring back the old Shunka and i'll call it a balance.

[ShinMaruku]

Add A Kamiya option.

[HeyItsTHK]

Nerfing Gunner because it’s "OP"
Buffing Ranger because it’s "too weak"
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

All this tunnel vision. More like nerfing the overused and buffing the underused so there are more options overall.

[Sizustar]

Bring back the old Shunka and i'll call it a balance.

So using only one PA and one class is how you want the game to be played?

[Azelyra]

Oh well, guess we'll just have to wait and see how everything pans out in the end ^^

[Kikikiki]

Why the hell do you post a screenshot in this thread?

[Lumpen Thingy]

Why the hell do you post a screenshot in this thread?

because the guy has like 19 post and doesn't know any better lol

[Rehal]

Why the hell do you post a screenshot in this thread?

What are you waiting for?
Praise their phasion/character/screenshot!

[Azelyra]

Why the hell do you post a screenshot in this thread?

Well, it is a forum after all and everybody has their own ways of expressing their thoughts, which in my case is in a form of a picture and a small caption. If that's going to cause a problem such as a distraction or so, could just ask to remove it or something :v

But I do apologize if it did cause any trouble. Still relatively new to the forums and everything, so don't really know how to reply to things sometimes... I guess u.u;;

[isCasted]

Well, it is a forum after all and everybody has their own ways of expressing their thoughts, which in my case is in a form of a picture and a small caption. If that's going to cause a problem such as a distraction or so, could just ask to remove it or something :v

But I do apologize if it did cause any trouble. Still relatively new to the forums and everything, so don't really know how to reply to things sometimes... I guess u.u;;

If you enjoy posting that way, just make your pictures smaller so it didn't slow down page loading too much and break site's layout for some display resolutions.

[Unnamed Player]

Outside of a scant handful of PAs (the most OP of which is getting nerfed) and WB (which is also getting nerfed, albeit not by very much), Ranger really is pretty weak.Nonsense, Aiming Shot, Thrillsplosion, Homing Emission, Rodeo Drive and
Cluster Bullet are all extremely useful if the Player knows what he’s doing.



How many times do you see people running around with launchers out, anyway?Every second EQ at least 1.



Gunners also got a massive buff to chainingIf they had made Cain Trigger a passive skill I would have agreed with you but they didn't.
Most Players choose to play Gunner for its consistency with HU sub and not for burst damage.

[gigawuts]

If they had made Cain Trigger a passive skill I would have agreed with you but they didn't.

I really do wish they did this.

They could've added a separate chain skill, adding up to +5-10 count for each enemy for some small damage bonus. It should've only applied at the start of the attack though, like Standing Snipe doesn't count unless it's activated at the start of an attack. Otherwise they might as well have just given another passive damage bonus.

[ReverseSeraf]

they should adjust the SH boss's to accommodate for the nerfs.

... wat

I'm tired of how this game revolves around stunlocking bosses with the most OP PAs if everyone turns off their brain and zergs at his/her weakpoint. It's almost as mindless as people spamming Ilmegid (although I can see why they do it). Please no, do not nerf bosses too.

[BIG OLAF]

Sorry, who's Yu Sugarmomma?

[gigawuts]

Sorry, who's Yu Sugarmomma?

y...you are mistress

[GHNeko]

... wat

I'm tired of how this game revolves around stunlocking bosses with the most OP PAs if everyone turns off their brain and zergs at his/her weakpoint. It's almost as mindless as people spamming Ilmegid (although I can see why they do it). Please no, do not nerf bosses too.

Agreed.

10Agreed.


Sorry, who's Yu Sugarmomma?

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[oratank]

Sroll ja still exists :-?
why do they want gu to have only one play style?

[Zyrusticae]

Nonsense, Aiming Shot, Thrillsplosion, Homing Emission, Rodeo Drive and
Cluster Bullet are all extremely useful if the Player knows what he’s doing.I suppose I wouldn't know. The ranger playstyle absolutely bores me to tears.


Every second EQ at least 1.That's... not very impressive numbers, heh.


If they had made Cain Trigger a passive skill I would have agreed with you but they didn't.
Most Players choose to play Gunner for its consistency with HU sub and not for burst damage.Yeah, I know what you mean. It is odd that they didn't make CT a more consistent, passive skill. With how the game plays, there's no reason to use it on trash mobs because you'll never build a high count and they die really fast anyway. The CD reduction will be useful but more against bosses where you can build chains multiple times rather than for making it useful during the missions themselves.


Sroll ja still exists :-?
why do they want gu to have only one play style?
Believe me, you're not the only one disappointed by this. They really need to reshuffle the numbers around on GU, and maybe replace some of the situational skills with something more basic like JA Advance or something. And for crying out loud, why doesn't Aerial Advance work when the gunner is in the air yet?! That one really irritates me. Hopefully he changes that one before the patch is released.

[Kondibon]

Sroll ja still exists :-?
why do they want gu to have only one play style?
Talis tech bonus still exists?
Why do they want FO to only have one play style?

Like. I agree that it was probably undernerfed, but the mechanics of the skill aren't broken, only that it's such a big centralized multiplier, and lack of inscentive to use more than one PA at a time. The skill mechanically isn't any worse than standing snipe or, as I said before Talis Tech bonus.


I suppose I wouldn't know. The ranger playstyle absolutely bores me to tears. Don't you play force...? ._.


That's... not very impressive numbers, heh.
That's how many WB rangers I usually see so...

[ReverseSeraf]

Believe me, you're not the only one disappointed by this. They really need to reshuffle the numbers around on GU, and maybe replace some of the situational skills with something more basic like JA Advance or something. And for crying out loud, why doesn't Aerial Advance work when the gunner is in the air yet?! That one really irritates me. Hopefully he changes that one before the patch is released.

I suppose it's because the person who designed Gunner's had hoped that most people would open with Aerial Shooting and/or Satellite Aim, since this game has a combo system in place. But we all know how that turned out...

If anything, I'd get rid of Aerial Advance completely and probably change TMG Gear to work just like Twin Dagger Gear: only difference would be that gauge linearly increases to the amount of time the Gunner is in the air (not like Twin Dagger which only accounts for how many "jumps" are performed).


Like. I agree that it was probably undernerfed, but the mechanics of the skill aren't broken, only that it's such a big centralized multiplier, and lack of inscentive to use more than one PA at a time. The skill mechanically isn't any worse than standing snipe or, as I said before Talis Tech bonus.


Realistically, Standing Snipe does make some sense for a Ranger. But Gunner.. flip = increased damage? Thrown talis = increased damage? They don't make sense at all. Where's the immersion in that?

[Kondibon]

Realistically, Standing Snipe does make some sense for a Ranger. But Gunner.. flip = increased damage? Thrown talis = increased damage? They don't make sense at all. Where's the immersion in that?lolimmersion. What does immersion have to do with it?

[Zyrusticae]

Don't you play force...? ._.
I play all the classes. Ranger has the lowest playtime out of all them by far.


That's how many WB rangers I usually see so...Welp, this game is doomed. Pack yer bags, folks.

[ReverseSeraf]

lolimmersion. What does immersion have to do with it?

Immersive experience*

Same reason why, for example, in Vindictus, Vella using Cyclone on a pinky-toe of a big dragon makes it incapacitated for a couple of seconds? How does that make sense at all?

I'm saying that the core mechanic behind Gunner and Force at the moment makes no sense at all, that people who actually try to play the game for an immersive experience will go "wtf?" (like me) It's boring and hilariously lazy.

[Stealthcmc1974]

lolimmersion. What does immersion have to do with it?

My guess is they're looking for play styles that actually make sense. Like gunners barraging mobs up close with TMGs (Chaining) makes more sense then they deal extra damage just because they did a flip in the air (video game logic).

However, I wouldn't hold your breath for this to happen. I'm just happy with the changes that were made :-)

Edit, Ninja'd by Reverse. Oh well.

[Kondibon]

Immersive experience*

Same reason why, for example, in Vindictus, Vella using Cyclone on a pinky-toe of a big dragon makes it incapacitated for a couple of seconds? How does that make sense at all?

I'm saying that the core mechanic behind Gunner and Force at the moment makes no sense at all, that people who actually try to play the game for an immersive experience will go "wtf?" (like me) It's boring and hilariously lazy.If you're going to over scrutinize something and claim it's not immersive, then you might as well say that about tons of other stuff in the game. Any time I see people nitpicking stuff and saying it's bad for "immersion" then I just think they must have a really bad imagination. I get that some people really value immersive experiences but sometimes you have to be ready to ignore or think around mechanics. That's what willing suspension of disbelief is, and if Sroll JA is breaking that for you, this probably isn't the game you should be looking for that kind of stuff in.

[ReverseSeraf]

If you're going to over scrutinize something and claim it's not immersive, then you might as well say that about tons of other stuff in the game. Any time I see people nitpicking stuff and saying it's bad for "immersion" then I just think they must have a really bad imagination. I get that some people really value immersive experiences but sometimes you have to be ready to ignore or think around mechanics. That's what willing suspension of disbelief is, and if Sroll JA is breaking that for you, this probably isn't the game you should be looking for that kind of stuff in.

Fair enough.

I do leave some room for some things that may not conventionally make sense at all, because design cannot be focused 100% entirely on reality. But S Roll JA Bonus and thrown talises are some things you're just going to be doing/looking at all the time. To press one button all the time and then immediately get an unconditional buff is bothersome to me on multiple levels.

[Kondibon]

Fair enough.

I do leave some room for some things that may not conventionally make sense at all, because design cannot be focused 100% entirely on reality. But S Roll JA Bonus and thrown talises are some things you're just going to be doing/looking at all the time. To press one button all the time and then immediately get an unconditional buff is bothersome to me on multiple levels.I just don't really lok for immersion in online games anyway. The fact that you're playig with other people at all is kind of a big deal.

[UnLucky]

Holding the talis card makes the photons flow back into your body instead of being fully utilized for the tech.

And Gunners are fueled by adversity and adrenaline doing death defying stunts. They also see the code of the matrix.

[Sizustar]

Sorry, who's Yu Sugarmomma?

The person that is now responsible for Episode 3 content and balance change.
He was co-producer on PSP2i, and this is his first time as a lead producer/director on a Phantasy star project.

[Unnamed Player]

That's how many WB rangers I usually see so...
Welp, this game is doomed. Pack yer bags, folks.
On the contrary there are times when i dont see any Gunners at all but like 4 Rangers(not counting the subclasses):
[SPOILER-BOX]http://l10.imgup.net/pso20140522dad.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Kondibon]

On the contrary there are times I said usually, not all the time. ._.

[ReverseSeraf]

And Gunners are fueled by adversity and adrenaline doing death defying stunts. They also see the code of the matrix.

The adversity and adrenaline are somehow infused through photons as power into the bullets that aren't part of the natural human body, right?

Goddamit, UnLucky.

[BIG OLAF]

The person that is now responsible for Episode 3 content and balance change.
He was co-producer on PSP2i, and this is his first time as a lead producer/director on a Phantasy star project.

Oh, if he's one of the guys behind the PSP2i rebalances, then yes, this should be amazing.

PSP2i = best PS game in the past 10 years, by a long shot. If this goes how I think it will, PSO2 is about to get a major facelift.

[Neith]

In short: He nerfed S-Roll and Ilmegid, he'll do fine for me :lol:

As someone who wants to play HU more I love these changes they're making. Nerfing the Fury Stance part of the tree is fine (although instead of reducing its boosts I would've just made Fury Stance/Up/Combo Up only affect S-ATK so that ranged classes can't leech off HU as a subclass purely for Fury Stance).

Things are looking promising, now if only I didn't have to play with a VPN things would be great :lol:

[Zyrusticae]

As someone who wants to play HU more I love these changes they're making. Nerfing the Fury Stance part of the tree is fine (although instead of reducing its boosts I would've just made Fury Stance/Up/Combo Up only affect S-ATK so that ranged classes can't leech off HU as a subclass purely for Fury Stance).

What.

Why would you want to make the subclass system even more stilted than it already is? Why would you want to REDUCE the number of viable combinations, ever?

This is nonsense. If anything, there should be MORE cross-class skills and bonuses to encourage unorthodox combinations, instead of pigeon-holing everyone into the same bloody circles.

[UnLucky]

The adversity and adrenaline are somehow infused through photons as power into the bullets that aren't part of the natural human body, right?

Goddamit, UnLucky.

They fling the bullets out of their guns for extra energy.

If they don't flip, they don't have the same motivation, you know? Just stand there and pull a trigger? Boring.

[Shiyo]

Sroll ja still exists :-?
why do they want gu to have only one play style?

I'd like to know too. There's 3 PA's that literally cannot be S roll JA'd because of how they function, so they'll forever do 60% less damage. Are they going to be doing 60% more damage than PA's that can be Srolled so they're viable to use?

Talis tech bonus still exists?
Why do they want FO to only have one play style?

Agree with this too. They need to nerf it's % to make it so that it buffs talises so they are as powerful as Rod for casting, so you can either use rod, and have 5 free skill points, or use talis, and need 5 skill points. That should be the point of this trait, not "Talis is now your best weapon and rod is shit unless it has a great potential".

[Uchouten]

So it seems like Gu/Hu will be transitioning to Ra/Gu to take advantage of Sharpshooter & Bullet Save.


Any speculations on optimal sub-class for Br? Still Hu?

[Unnamed Player]

I said usually, not all the time. ._.
Did i say "there are times"? Sry, of cauce I meant almost all the time, my last 4 EQs:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://b82.imgup.net/sfsfwfta8de.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
But srsly, didn't Sega released some data on this issue?
Pretty sure Ranger was more common then Gunner. :/

[Stealthcmc1974]

So it seems like Gu/Hu will be transitioning to Ra/Gu to take advantage of Sharpshooter & Bullet Save.


Any speculations on optimal sub-class for Br? Still Hu?

Probably HU. I plan on doing BR/BO since I liked being an Acromaster on PSP (I never played PSU online :()

I'd say RA for bow, but keep in mind you won't get that Bullet Keep unless you do RA/BR instead.

[Uchouten]

Probably HU. I plan on doing BR/BO since I liked being an Acromaster on PSP (I never played PSU online :()

I'd say RA for bow, but keep in mind you won't get that Bullet Keep unless you do RA/BR instead.

Most Bow users, even now, are Ra/Br to take advantage of Sharpshooter.

[Sizustar]

So...what do you guys think of his future plan?
http://i.imgur.com/SJKu7VG.jpg

Future additional Skill and PA/Tech won't just be a power-up, but for new strategy/tactic to give players more option to play.

[Sanguine2009]

assuming his plan is well done, i like it.

[Miyuki_Kamiko]

so far hes actually fixing the mess Sakai created need to see how much hunters PAS will be sped up before saying anything on hunter

Fighter needed to get rid of those penalties for it's stances which should make fighter well actually worth playing

ranger i like the buffs and nerfs sattelite canoe getting nerfed and WB

Force and techer there skill trees needed that

gunner needed that nerf

the permanent step attack was needed

[Zorua]

Did i say "there are times"? Sry, of cauce I meant almost all the time, my last 4 EQs:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://b82.imgup.net/sfsfwfta8de.png[/SPOILER-BOX]
But srsly, didn't Sega released some data on this issue?
Pretty sure Ranger was more common then Gunner. :/

To be fair, you're playing on ship 1. Ship 2's community isn't necessarily going to share the same interests in classes.

A teammate of mine that plays on both ships describes ship 2 pugs as a bunch of angry gunners and forces that want somebody to use weak bullet. I couldn't honestly say if that's true, since I've never been on ship 2 for longer than 5 minutes at a time, but I can support your statement in that I get a WBer every time an EQ pops up.

[Sanguine2009]

To be fair, you're playing on ship 1. Ship 2's community isn't necessarily going to share the same interests in classes.

A teammate of mine that plays on both ships describes ship 2 pugs as a bunch of angry gunners and forces that want somebody to use weak bullet. I couldn't honestly say if that's true, since I've never been on ship 2 for longer than 5 minutes at a time, but I can support your statement in that I get a WBer every time an EQ pops up.

in ship 2 60% of pugs are a bunch of angry underleveled/undergeared *insert flavor of the month class here* that want everyone else to carry them. the rest are pretty decent though.

[gigawuts]

So...what do you guys think of his future plan?
http://i.imgur.com/SJKu7VG.jpg

Future additional Skill and PA/Tech won't just be a power-up, but for new strategy/tactic to give players more option to play.

Hey wow, cool, what it should've always been.

[UnLucky]

I see that and think "great, even more obtuse conditional skills that will require a Hunter sub for any consistency"

[HeyItsTHK]

In that respect I hope they're tech related so Hunter won't be of use. :P

[TheAstarion]

I'm liking all of the proposed changes, wish some of them would be better still (like Fighter and Weak stance, or an improvement to Techer's elemental weak hit, but Bouncer is getting elemental stance anyway) but on the whole the only thing I'm really sore about is how many things are main class only (Warbrave, Techer buffs being useful especially).

But these are just tentative changes and there's still a month to finalise them. Though in the case of Warbrave, it just means HUBR gets that little bit better. On the other hand, the buffs to Techer make me wish we had triple classes for BO/HU/TE Wartecher goodness.

[Cyber Meteor]

Here is what I think for each class (except Fighter because I don't use/sub it):

-HU : I just sub it when I play RA or GU and it seems the loss is minimal, so I won't complain too much except on the JA combo that loses 10%.
-RA : No big change for my build except I can add power bullet to it thanks to the Dex not being anymore on my path.
-GU : Here, the addition of Chain skills interests me a lot.
-FO : I was hoping Photon Flare to become a stance while keeping the HP penality, but they removed it and instead we have a longer duration and shorter cooldown but still 55 sec of inactivity. I'm a bit disappointed on that point, let just see if they change the atk boost (a percentage instead of fixed value). Honestly it was the main thing where I wanted to see a change but he didn't do well on it.
-TE : Seems interesting but I don't main TE, I just sub it for an ice/dark build so no big changes, maybe 1 PP boost maxed while keeping my current build

So for my RA/HU - GU/HU character -> Some changes for my GU, nothing for my RA
For my FO/TE -> Nothing big in perspective

[Kondibon]

I was hoping Photon Flare to become a stance while keeping the HP penality, but they removed it and instead we have a longer duration and shorter cooldown but still 55 sec of inactivity. I'm a bit disappointed on that point, let just see if they change the atk boost (a percentage instead of fixed value).If anything should have been +100% damage it should have been photon flare. I:

EDIT: I still wanna see flat scaling stat bonuses based on your main-class level for stuff instead of just percents or static bonuses based on skill level.

[Cyber Meteor]

@Kondibon I completly rewrote the post with what I think for all class. 100% boost? in that case the cooldown won't bother me too much.

[UnLucky]

PF became 45/100 instead of 30/120. Roughly half instead of a quarter, so that's almost doubly effective as it used to be.

Except 200 T-Atk half of the time is still not worth 10SP. It either needs to be twice as much for good burst damage, or always active to match other available skills.

It only starts to become relevant if your weapon has ZERO T-Atk on it, or you're extremely low level, or you have no mag or units equipped, or you're using a fully unlocked Motav (but it still isn't worth maxing PF itself).

And by relevant, I mean equivalent to a Tech Advance skill. Yeah, I'm still sticking to 20 Atk being roughly equivalent to 1% damage since you'd have to factor in enemy Def. Sooner or later that's going to change, though.

It'd be nice if it gave 20% of your total T-Atk or something like that. Even just like 50% of your base stats would work, borrowing the mechanics from Katana Gear.

[BIG OLAF]

Here is what I think for each class :

-FI : I don't play this class so.....


Then why did you say "each" class? I started reading the post thinking you were going to provide insight for every one of them. I feel that opinions hold the most water when the one speaking them has experience in everything being discussed therein.

[GHNeko]

Come on Big Olaf. No need for that. Let him realize his mistake on his own without giving him shit for it. Let it sliiiiide.


Not really adding much to the thread that way either man.

[Zyrusticae]

I can only assume he's going to change how Photon Flare works as well. Pretty much everyone's in agreement that it isn't worth it even with the cd and duration buff. (Personally, I still want to see it become a stance skill, with an alternative stance skill for PP regen, forcing you to choose between high burst damage and high sustained damage...)

[Cyber Meteor]

Then why did you say "each" class? I started reading the post thinking you were going to provide insight for every one of them.

Oh yeah! you're right, I corrected (precised about FI before giving the list). I haven't realized it while writing.

[gigawuts]

I can only assume he's going to change how Photon Flare works as well. Pretty much everyone's in agreement that it isn't worth it even with the cd and duration buff. (Personally, I still want to see it become a stance skill, with an alternative stance skill for PP regen, forcing you to choose between high burst damage and high sustained damage...)

I dunno, I'm okay with the idea of a burst damage skill for force.

It just shouldn't detract from masteries quite so badly. And it might not anymore. Something like +15-30% damage would be cool. It'd be like katana combat for forces, without the AOE or invuln.

I'd still like to see an AOE increase skill for ice techs instead of freeze ignition though.

[UnLucky]

Then why did you say "each" class? I started reading the post thinking you were going to provide insight for every one of them. I feel that opinions hold the most water when the one speaking them has experience in everything being discussed therein.
Perhaps I might sate you.

New Fighter changes means it is now possible to ignore Wise Stance completely.

Tech Arts means it is now possible to make use of the combo system in some kind of bastardized facade of the original intention through carrot and stick. Hurrah for Dagger users!

Limit Break might mean that SP spent in Half/Deadline Slayer are no longer a waste.

The better prereqs means you've got SP to spare, even for Crazy Heart/Beat! Or just stick them into the S-Atk Ups again, that works too.

I can only assume he's going to change how Photon Flare works as well. Pretty much everyone's in agreement that it isn't worth it even with the cd and duration buff. (Personally, I still want to see it become a stance skill, with an alternative stance skill for PP regen, forcing you to choose between high burst damage and high sustained damage...)
An always-on 10% bonus would be completely pointless in the face of everything else in the tree unless you were absolutely against ever committing to a single element. If there was also a choice to get better PP regen instead, I'd choose that every time since there's already not enough SP to get everything else.

[BIG OLAF]

Perhaps I might sate you.

New Fighter changes means it is now possible to ignore Wise Stance completely.

Tech Arts means it is now possible to make use of the combo system in some kind of bastardized facade of the original intention through carrot and stick. Hurrah for Dagger users!

Limit Break might mean that SP spent in Half/Deadline Slayer are no longer a waste.

The better prereqs means you've got SP to spare, even for Crazy Heart/Beat! Or just stick them into the S-Atk Ups again, that works too.

Oh, I didn't actually care. I just wanted to point out his mistake. I'm going to continue playing the way I do regardless.

[UnLucky]

I know you were just giving him shit for kicks, I just wanted to say things that sounded smart.

[Zyrusticae]

I dunno, I'm okay with the idea of a burst damage skill for force.

It just shouldn't detract from masteries quite so badly. And it might not anymore. Something like +15-30% damage would be cool. It'd be like katana combat for forces, without the AOE or invuln.

I'd still like to see an AOE increase skill for ice techs instead of freeze ignition though.I guess I could see that, but long-cooldown skills in this game just feel really bad to me. Unless they're intended to be used exclusively on bosses (like Weak Bullet and Chain Trigger), having a less than 50% uptime means you're spending half the time whacked out with power and half the time struggling to be relevant. It feels bad, man.

Hell, this is exactly the reason the Ignition skills are never used - with such long cds they can only be justified by being used on bosses or, occasionally, large numbers of tough enemies (if you can even land the status effect on time), but they can't even be used on bosses because they're immune to status effects! (This, coincidentally, is also why Chase Advance needs fixin'... I wonder if they'll ever make bosses affected by it somehow?)

I'd much rather see these things turned into stances because it creates a decision point for the player, since you can only take one or the other and not both. The long-cd stuff should be in addition to stances, but by their very nature they should be designed to have high impact for short periods of time to be used against bosses, because you're never going to waste anything with a long cd on trash mobs.



An always-on 10% bonus would be completely pointless in the face of everything else in the tree unless you were absolutely against ever committing to a single element. If there was also a choice to get better PP regen instead, I'd choose that every time since there's already not enough SP to get everything else.
Well, obviously the bonus would have to be high enough to make it worth taking over those other options. It would be nice, too, to have a non-element specific damage boosting option with a downside (i.e. giving up faster PP regen for it).

Hell, if you really wanted to differentiate playstyles, you could make Charge PP Revival a part of that PP regen stance, and now suddenly you really have a choice to make. Do I take the stance that increases AoE size and damage per tech by 50%, or the PP regen stance that lets me cast non-stop? Decisions, decisions...

Edit: OKAY, now here's an idea! Do this -
Force has two stances: One that increases damage and AoE, another that increases charge speed and decreases PP cost. The former is obviously for burst and CC, while the latter is for sustained damage output and safer (faster) casting. Remove Charge PP revival from Force entirely, and obviously Bolt PP Save and Flame Tech S Charge would no longer be a thing.

Then Techer gets two stances: Wand Lovers, which does its thing, and then another stance that's focused entirely on PP regen. Charge PP Revival gets folded into it, and PP Restorate just becomes a boost for the effects of the stance. Thus, techer has a choice between being a melee damage-dealer that occasionally casts support techs, or a sustained caster with strong PP management.

And there we go. NOW things are interesting! You have two entirely different playstyle choices within the same class, increasing build variety and playstyles without the baggage of players just taking every single damage boosting skill available because there's no reason not to. ...I think I need to send this to someone in SEGA now.

[GHNeko]

It'd be nice if Bosses could be inflicted with a weakened version of stats effects.

Like instead of Poison dealing 5% Max HP per tick like normal enemies and certain mini-bosses, it would deal 1% Max HP per tick.

The purpose would be to allow procing so that status effect reliant builds can actually matter against bosses.

Take the current proc rate for status effects and apply them to bosses, and then increase them by 1.5x for normal enemies (5x for weapon procing).

And for shit like Freeze, instead of completely freezing the boss, just have it slow the boss animations down.

Shit does Jellen even COUNT towards shit like Chase Advance?

[Kondibon]

It'd be nice if Bosses could be inflicted with a weakened version of stats effects.

Like instead of Poison dealing 5% Max HP per tick like normal enemies and certain mini-bosses, it would deal 1% Max HP per tick.

The purpose would be to allow procing so that status effect reliant builds can actually matter against bosses.

Take the current proc rate for status effects and apply them to bosses, and then increase them by 1.5x for normal enemies (5x for weapon procing).

And for shit like Freeze, instead of completely freezing the boss, just have it slow the boss animations down.

Shit does Jellen even COUNT towards shit like Chase Advance?They don't even have to do anything (I can't think of what shock would do). Just letting them proc would be good enough. I:

And no Jellen doesn't count IIRC.

EDIT: Also, don't forget that even normal enemies have immunities to certain status effects. When have you ever seen a poisoned Dagan?

[gigawuts]

It'd be nice if Bosses could be inflicted with a weakened version of stats effects.

Like instead of Poison dealing 5% Max HP per tick like normal enemies and certain mini-bosses, it would deal 1% Max HP per tick.

The purpose would be to allow procing so that status effect reliant builds can actually matter against bosses.

Take the current proc rate for status effects and apply them to bosses, and then increase them by 1.5x for normal enemies (5x for weapon procing).

And for shit like Freeze, instead of completely freezing the boss, just have it slow the boss animations down.

Shit does Jellen even COUNT towards shit like Chase Advance?

I feel the same way here too, but maybe only as a result of a dedicated build.

Chase Advance should allow you to inflict reduced SEs on large bosses, and of course qualify the existing animations/debuffs for the bonus too (lookin' at you poisoned quartz parts, lookin' at you very strongly).

I think this would come into play best with varying enemy resistances, too. Bosses should only be affected by SEs tied to elements that they're weak to, and Techer should get a new skill that gives 1-2 more weaknesses to everything in the game. How? Give Techer a skill: All enemies take 5% more damage from all elements. Then make all 1x resistances into .95x, except 1-2 per enemy.

Suddenly Fighter can apply SEs to bosses, and fighter/techer can apply more SEs to bosses. Force/techer has more elements that activate EWH and requires a bit more thought sometimes. It's win/win/win!

[GHNeko]

Yo anyone got Sugardaddy's number? We got some good shit going on in this thread man.

[Edson Drake]

We most definitely should get a PSOW representative that speaks fluent japanese and send some of these stuff to that bloke, no kidding.

I would really enjoy a decent Photon Flare build for Force, that's for sure.

[Stealthcmc1974]

We most definitely should get a PSOW representative that speaks fluent japanese and send some of these stuff to that bloke, no kidding.

I would really enjoy a decent Photon Flare build for Force, that's for sure.

Has anyone though of this earlier? Because if not...why?

[GHNeko]

Because PSOW is filled with cynics that would sooner tell you that your idea is bad and you should feel bad than to attempt, fail, shrug, and say, "We gave it our best shot." and move on knowing they actually attempted something.

BUT MAYBE IM JUST SPEAKING OUT MY ASS AND I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.

[Aussei]

Because PSOW is filled with cynics that would sooner tell you that your idea is bad and you should feel bad than to attempt, fail, shrug, and say, "We gave it our best shot." and move on knowing they actually attempted something.

BUT MAYBE IM JUST SPEAKING OUT MY ASS AND I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT.

You're fucking retarded.

[GHNeko]

You're fucking retarded.

Duly noted; I am fucking retarded. (http://i.imgur.com/q3uIr6f.png)

[ShinMaruku]

We most definitely should get a PSOW representative that speaks fluent japanese and send some of these stuff to that bloke, no kidding.

I would really enjoy a decent Photon Flare build for Force, that's for sure.

I thought that always happened. It's how DOA got to the state it was and how SF got it's balance.

[Mysterious-G]

You're fucking retarded.

Perfect.