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View Full Version : JP PSO2 Ep.3 Skill simulator out~



Sizustar
Jul 29, 2014, 02:42 AM
New Skill simulator out~
http://pso2skillsimulator.com/

Go and build your new skill~

Edson Drake
Jul 29, 2014, 02:48 AM
Good stuff, a shame I hate to go to sleep now. Hopefully we'll have our english version soon as well.

Lostbob117
Jul 29, 2014, 03:20 AM
Good stuff, a shame I hate to go to sleep now. Hopefully we'll have our english version soon as well.

You can translate it to english in the bottom right corner.

Gardios
Jul 29, 2014, 03:38 AM
Good stuff, a shame I hate to go to sleep now. Hopefully we'll have our english version soon as well.

You can blame UNIEL for me taking so long. (´・ω・`)

Should be up today though.

Misaki Ki
Jul 29, 2014, 03:43 AM
*Cracks Whip*

Achelousaurus
Jul 29, 2014, 04:03 AM
:DThat was quick.
Pity there are no descriptions but I guess sega hasn't released any details yet.
Google translate does a decent job though:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpso2skillsimulator.com%2Fbraver2%2F&edit-text=&act=url

Sadly it's super buggy (or becomes buggy when translated).
Doesn't follow the requirements (everything needs to be maxed for the next skill to be usable) and often says you need 33 points instead of 10.

Luckily it seems normal attack boost is directly of dex up 1, so I can still get my dream braver build :D

ShadowDragon28
Jul 29, 2014, 05:34 AM
can someone post a recommended Hunter build with the highest damage best dps with a sword using this skill simulator?

Lostbob117
Jul 29, 2014, 06:10 AM
can someone post a recommended Hunter build with the highest damage best dps with a sword using this skill simulator?

With the new hunter skills or old?

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 06:29 AM
Most likely new. :V

Manakura
Jul 29, 2014, 06:32 AM
Question: Does this mean upon these reworks all skill points will be refunded ?
Or is that still gonna take AC?

Stealthcmc1974
Jul 29, 2014, 06:42 AM
They usually give skill tree resets when they change or add skills but this time? They'll probably auto-reset everyone. Hopefully they also give us reset passes :)

Ordy
Jul 29, 2014, 06:51 AM
Use your common sense, of course they'll auto reset all the skill trees. They can't guess and randomly shit skill points here and there then ask you to reset the tree.

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 07:04 AM
No need to be so sharp lol.

SEGA has a history of stupid bone-headed decision making.

Kondibon
Jul 29, 2014, 07:38 AM
I think his point was that he hopes we'll have everything automatically reset AND get a skill tree reset ticket .

I want that too, if only because we can't really know what the new meta will be without experimenting.

Achelousaurus
Jul 29, 2014, 07:42 AM
Yeah.
That's why I hope there won't only be a forced reset.
Cause if so, I need to reallocate now without knowing much and can't make adjustments later.
But if it's just a pass I can continue and wait until we know more.

UnLucky
Jul 29, 2014, 07:48 AM
A lot of skill requirements seem to be the same, so they may have designed the new trees to be compatible without requiring a forced reset.

Of course you'd likely end up with stray points into things that are no longer necessary, but it's not like they're gonna add SP into a bunch of skills for you.

wefwq
Jul 29, 2014, 08:31 AM
Some skill got their level cut to half while some became default pre-activated skill, i think they'll just force-reset everyone's skill tree.

UnLucky
Jul 29, 2014, 08:52 AM
Yeah but they could totally give you just the SP you can't spend on those skills instead of everything.

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 09:04 AM
I think that's more work than just doing a forced reset, UnLucky lol.

I feel a reset is a lot more likely and a lot less of a headache because millions of players are going to want to try new things, especially the returning ones, or the ones who fucked up their skill trees badly.

I get what you're getting at, but let's be real.

Pretty sure lazinessefficiency is gonna win this one.

Yden
Jul 29, 2014, 09:44 AM
You can translate it to english in the bottom right corner.

What do you mean bottom right corner? I see nothing there.

gigawuts
Jul 29, 2014, 10:21 AM
These trees seem roughly as fair as I could have wanted from Sega. You can pool all of your SP into the damage skills, and then have some spare SP to put into your unique skills of choice. Maybe you want Weak Hit Blast Bonus, or maybe you want traps, or maybe you want some spare bullets - none of those detract from your WB/WHA/SS/etc. skills. That's exactly what I've been broken-recording about for like two years now.

I haven't given them all super close inspections but from what I tinkered around with, I'm pretty happy with them.

SamayouSamurai
Jul 29, 2014, 10:44 AM
Braver is getting a ATK Advance next to Katana Gear? Seems like a new skill box.

final_attack
Jul 29, 2014, 10:45 AM
Thanks for the link on Skill Simulator :D ... tried some builds ..... But, not sure until the actual descriptions (at max level) are available

Hmm ....... I'm thinking of using Traps for Ra (a lot of spare points if I'm using Ra solely for Gunner's subclass, I think).

But, I wonder, how does the trap work? :/ Place them - enemy stepped on it (1 hit) - it disappears? Or it stays on there for limited time, and keep triggering until the hit limits are reached?

SakuRei
Jul 29, 2014, 11:48 AM
This new skill simulator seems... complicated for me, and ugh... google translate, blegh! wonder if the former skill simulator we use will have the new skill tree feature.

HeyItsTHK
Jul 29, 2014, 11:49 AM
Thanks for the link on Skill Simulator :D ... tried some builds ..... But, not sure until the actual descriptions (at max level) are available

Hmm ....... I'm thinking of using Traps for Ra (a lot of spare points if I'm using Ra solely for Gunner's subclass, I think).

But, I wonder, how does the trap work? :/ Place them - enemy stepped on it (1 hit) - it disappears? Or it stays on there for limited time, and keep triggering until the hit limits are reached?

I've only ever seen Upper Trap used. It's placed down and has a timer bar over it. It goes off when an enemy steps on it, when the timer runs down, or when you set it off yourself.

Gama
Jul 29, 2014, 11:58 AM
are the extra Skill points from co's removed? so he new trees will have 70 points? or 80? i'm confused.

un1t27
Jul 29, 2014, 12:04 PM
Thank god.

Maenara
Jul 29, 2014, 12:13 PM
Translator never finishes translating for me.

wefwq
Jul 29, 2014, 12:23 PM
Translator never finishes translating for me.
same here, it always stuck around 21% and never finish.
I have to copy pastas skill name manually to google translators, it sucks.

UnLucky
Jul 29, 2014, 12:30 PM
Just do it the old fashioned way, then:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpso2skillsimulator.com%2F

Maenara
Jul 29, 2014, 12:34 PM
Just do it the old fashioned way, then:

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpso2skillsimulator.com%2F

That breaks it. Doing it that way makes each skill require level 33 of the previous skill, and it doesn't keep track of how many points you're spending either.

IndigoNovember
Jul 29, 2014, 12:45 PM
Can't you just have the translated skill layout images open in 1 window and the skill simulator open in the other?

UnLucky
Jul 29, 2014, 12:51 PM
It translates the skills at the very least, so you could open up the original next to it and spend the points in that one.

I eventually got it to work using Chrome's built in translation feature which normally hangs on its own, then used the option at the bottom which also stops loading on its own normally, but the two of them together work magic.

Yden
Jul 29, 2014, 02:30 PM
Here's a quick translation I did uploaded to an old free hosting site I have an account for.
http://yden.xtreemhost.com/PSO2/index.html

The source if anyone wants it.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/i5c2kja69398ksh/PSO2_Skill_Simulator.7z

tehfusion
Jul 29, 2014, 03:00 PM
A lot of skill requirements seem to be the same, so they may have designed the new trees to be compatible without requiring a forced reset.

Of course you'd likely end up with stray points into things that are no longer necessary, but it's not like they're gonna add SP into a bunch of skills for you.

This is true for the most part, but not entirely. One example where it could get broken is with the Fury Combo Up skill, which has changed its prerequisite skill entirely. Fury Combo Up will require five points in Fury Critical, instead of five points in Fury Stance Up 1 like it currently does. If a player has the Fury Combo Up skill, but they don't have any points in Fury Critical, then the Episode 3 patch would need to actually assign their points into the Fury Critical skill so that they can meet the new prerequisite. There are other skills that have this problem too, such as Fury Stance Up 2, Halfline Slayer, Adrenaline, and so on.

I suppose it's possible for them to do if they really wanted to try to maintain the current skills that everyone has, but I can't really imagine them assigning your skill points for you to make it work, and giving you new skills that you didn't have before the patch. A forced reset seems far more likely to me.

gigawuts
Jul 29, 2014, 03:50 PM
They've said they'd give out resets for skill tree additions and changes.

I feel like this qualifies for a skill tree change of some kind.

elryan
Jul 29, 2014, 04:55 PM
Here's a quick translation I did uploaded to an old free hosting site I have an account for.
http://yden.xtreemhost.com/PSO2/index.html

The source if anyone wants it.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/i5c2kja69398ksh/PSO2_Skill_Simulator.7z

Nice job!

Kondibon
Jul 29, 2014, 04:58 PM
They've said they'd give out resets for skill tree additions and changes.

I feel like this qualifies for a skill tree change of some kind.We know we're getting some kind of reset. It's just a question of it being a ticket, automatic, or automatic, and we get a ticket to use for later too.

Gardios
Jul 29, 2014, 05:02 PM
(´・ω・`) Not the whip, Misaki~~~~

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/

Zyrusticae
Jul 29, 2014, 05:03 PM
Man, you guys are so spoiled now.

I mean, fuck, I've got like 10(?!) full skill tree reset passes just sitting in my storage, unclaimed, waiting for the day I actually need to redo everything. And you guys want a reset and a ticket after all the free tickets they've just been throwing our way for months now? Heh.

But then, I might be one of the only players here with a minimum of two skill trees per class (with four skill trees for fo/te each - one for each element and one strictly for subclassing), so it's not like I actually have any hard decisions to make. I know exactly what I'm going for every time I build a skill tree, and it's not very often that I make a decision that requires a redo...

Kondibon
Jul 29, 2014, 05:09 PM
Man, you guys are so spoiled now.

I mean, fuck, I've got like 10(?!) full skill tree reset passes just sitting in my storage, unclaimed, waiting for the day I actually need to redo everything. And you guys want a reset and a ticket after all the free tickets they've just been throwing our way for months now? Heh.

But then, I might be one of the only players here with a minimum of two skill trees per class (with four skill trees for fo/te each - one for each element and one strictly for subclassing), so it's not like I actually have any hard decisions to make. I know exactly what I'm going for every time I build a skill tree, and it's not very often that I make a decision that requires a redo...I'm sorry. I'm used to build based games where redoing your build isn't a money grab...

moorebounce
Jul 29, 2014, 07:24 PM
They usually give skill tree resets when they change or add skills but this time? They'll probably auto-reset everyone. Hopefully they also give us reset passes :)

This is what I hope happens. If they did a full reset and gave us reset tickets we won't be stuck if we make a mistake. That would be less painful.

They could also leave all the points in the skills where they are but for the skills that use less or none at all put the points but into the unused pool.

Ezodagrom
Jul 29, 2014, 08:00 PM
(´・ω・`) Not the whip, Misaki~~~~

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/
Just a couple small notes, in the gunner tree, there's 2 Toughness Time listed, the one on the bottom left is supposed to be Zero Range Critical.
In the braver tree, Katana Gear and Counter Edge are listed as 0/10 skills instead of 0/1. ^^;

Lostbob117
Jul 29, 2014, 09:10 PM
I was playing around with the idea of a support tank te/hu that uses swords:
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08eAbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdo dBIol2dn4NcFfsXJk0000006doIn0000008doib0000006do00 0000lo00000006dBdAfGFsOrKI2qBsN000000IbIo000000f

I wonder if the stance for wand lovers will work if you don't have a wand in your hand.

Shiyo
Jul 29, 2014, 09:38 PM
I'm sorry. I'm used to build based games where redoing your build isn't a money grab...

Agreed, locking character customization and builds behind money is scummy as fuck. Almost as scummy as 10 stars still requiring prem.

Prem users should get 1-2 additional skill trees per class and 1-2 free respecs per month, honestly.

UnLucky
Jul 29, 2014, 09:38 PM
I was playing around with the idea of a support tank te/hu that uses swords:
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08eAbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdo dBIol2dn4NcFfsXJk0000006doIn0000008doib0000006do00 0000lo00000006dBdAfGFsOrKI2qBsN000000IbIo000000f

I wonder if the stance for wand lovers will work if you don't have a wand in your hand.

Wand Lovers only applies its boost for wands. Also War Brave is Hunter main only, so your only source of damage is Shifta.

Shiyo
Jul 29, 2014, 09:51 PM
Sadly, these new trees are still garbage.

HU one is the only one with actual huuge improvements, but it still takes 55(fucking hell) points to max every fury stance trait and JA bonus 1/2.......

At least it's not 70 or whatever the hell it was before. Loving that I can actually pick up defensive traits as a HU main now. So that's great.

Overall, too much bloat, too many mandatory traits, too much flat % damage modifiers, and too many skill points to pick up things you NEED to pick up with not much room for diversity.

I'd say 9/10 for HU tree, 3/10 for every other tree. HU tree is fantastic, rest are absolute garbage.

New dev failed us all. Too many flat % dmg modifiers still in trees.

Rakurai
Jul 29, 2014, 09:59 PM
Making it so essentials aren't buried under tons of pre-reqs was a start, and they said they'd like to eventually make more skills and PAs influence one's playstyle as opposed to just being straight power increases.

Stealthcmc1974
Jul 29, 2014, 10:07 PM
Small steps. I would want more unique skills myself, but to force such a drastic change on the community would be like waxing you private area. It would turn off a lot of people used to the old system I'm betting.
Hopefully we'll see improvement in the future. So far, its looking pretty good. Having more freedom in the trees is a great start.

Skyly
Jul 29, 2014, 10:07 PM
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08uDbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkjdt8 dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006do000000jdBbs fHn2SGA2KIk000000fdBdAbscKfrA4SjcKcA000007bIo00000 0f

I usually use other people's skill trees but does anyone have any tips on this skill tree? Fo/Te

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 10:09 PM
Agreed, locking character customization and builds behind money is scummy as fuck. Almost as scummy as 10 stars still requiring prem.

Prem users should get 1-2 additional skill trees per class and 1-2 free respecs per month, honestly.

This is why this game should have been P2P in the first place like PSU and PSO.

F2P taints ALL games.

Very few games scape unscathed and the ones that do are the ones that have their player base's enjoyment as an utmost priority i.e. only shit that doesnt impact the game costs money.

Shiyo
Jul 29, 2014, 10:20 PM
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdod BIoIbi2dn5kISGAjJgqnI20000002OInfbndneBGKGKfHnIn00 000doib0000006eold2OgXqDGAGKhf20000lobsiNdnIbfqnIk IkGAcKIk00000iodAi2rBqxA2qBsQIk000009bqB4OisjcKsNH SIk0000j
HU/FI and other stuff randomly thrown in. BR tree is kinda for TE/BR, TE FO and GU tree's are for maining those classes.

I will be invincible as HU/FI, and deal tons of damage. I will laugh everytime I just sit there never dying spamming overend and over PA's not caring in the slightest as bosses hit me over and over.

Kondibon
Jul 29, 2014, 10:28 PM
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08uDbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkjdt8 dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006do000000jdBbs fHn2SGA2KIk000000fdBdAbscKfrA4SjcKcA000007bIo00000 0f

I usually use other people's skill trees but does anyone have any tips on this skill tree? Fo/TeWe don't really know how the meta is gonna turn out so I don't think anyone is gonna have any serious build ideas yet. I can tell you though, that those points in most of those normal T-atk ups are wasted. Also, why get element weak hit on a dark only tree (though I guess techer doesn't have much else offensive to get)?

PP convert and restorate will help you manage your pp more than 10 more base PP would. Resta doesn't really need resta adv; It's good on it's own. If you want support/defense, the deband and territory skills are more useful. Based on what I've seen, charge escape will be invaluable, so I don't think you should skip out on that.

I'd go for something more like this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08uAbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdo dBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006do000000jdBbsfc A2SGB2XIk000000iodAi2rAqxGFgOIkcAcA000007bIo000000 f) if you're specifically going for a dark/ PF build. But again, we don't know how much things will change


This is why this game should have been P2P in the first place like PSU and PSO.

F2P taints ALL games.

Very few games scape unscathed and the ones that do are the ones that have their player base's enjoyment as an utmost priority i.e. only shit that doesnt impact the game costs money.

There's nothing wrong with selling convenience. It becomes a problem when you're selling mechanics though.

Shiyo
Jul 29, 2014, 10:38 PM
Thankfully you can't actually fuck up skill trees. Adding all this "Main class" crap is just going to force everyone to have at least 2 skill trees for most classes, 1 for main 1 for sub.

The more they make skill trees better designed, the more we'll be forced to have multiple trees. They need to eventually make respeccing FREE or free for prem if they want well designed skill trees and well thought out and balanced classes, and if they don't want to look like complete and utter Nexon level scum when the skill trees are actually good.

Yden
Jul 29, 2014, 10:40 PM
This is why this game should have been P2P in the first place like PSU and PSO.

F2P taints ALL games.

Very few games scape unscathed and the ones that do are the ones that have their player base's enjoyment as an utmost priority i.e. only shit that doesnt impact the game costs money.

P2P games aren't that much better these days. You still get shit like this in a game that cost $60 with a $15 monthy sub fee.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/313721/?snr=1_5_9__405

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 10:42 PM
But there is even a limit for convenience no?

But I digress; Premium (at least on Ship 2) is an invaluable convenience. The player economy screws the market enough to put it where it is today, making premium all the more alluring and useful. That's how I feel anyways.

But to go back to the topic at hand.

Shiyo; you crazy brah.

You're jumping so far ahead. Have you already taken the time to mull over various new strats and combinations before saying we've been failed ALREADY?

Reminds me of the Marvel 3 fanbase crying their eyes out @ Sentinel on launch day or SSFIV AE Yun.


P2P games aren't that much better these days. You still get shit like this in a game that cost $60 with a $15 monthy sub fee.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/313721/?snr=1_5_9__405

I have no clue about this game as I havnt played it.

FF14, FF11, PSO are 3 of the better P2P Online RPGs I've played. I havnt play much else because F2P has been booooming.

Shiyo
Jul 29, 2014, 10:46 PM
P2P games aren't that much better these days. You still get shit like this in a game that cost $60 with a $15 monthy sub fee.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/313721/?snr=1_5_9__405

You linked Elder scrolls online, probably one of the worst MMO's released in the past 20 years.

Not really applicable.

It is true that monthly sub MMO's are pretty scummy lately, even WOW with it's $60(?) mounts. Overall the quality, content updates, amount of content, and convenience you get in monthly sub MMO's are much better. Too bad every single monthly sub MMO isn't fun to play anymore.

[Shiyo; you crazy brah.

You're jumping so far ahead. Have you already taken the time to mull over various new strats and combinations before saying we've been failed ALREADY?
What strats? You make a build and in 5 seconds you can see the new skill trees(Outside of HU's which is FANTASTIC) are still absolute garbage. ESPECIALLY GUNNERS. Oh my god, GU's tree is so bad still. Like the tree's are less cluttered, and you don't need to pick up tons of useless shit to get to the traits you want, but there's still too much bloat, too many mandatory traits, too much % dmg modifiers, too little choices.

HU tree is what every tree should look like(they still need to fix it a bit though, like removing fury combo up entirely).

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 10:48 PM
Shiyo is like my own little slice of /v/ man. It's great. I love this person.

HiOc
Jul 29, 2014, 11:08 PM
I tried. (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08xnbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdo dBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doboIbIddxdBnocAixJfk00008 do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbno4NjJ2rFmxIk00008) :-?

Zyrusticae
Jul 29, 2014, 11:16 PM
You linked Elder scrolls online, probably one of the worst MMO's released in the past 20 years.

Not really applicable.

It is true that monthly sub MMO's are pretty scummy lately, even WOW with it's $60(?) mounts. Overall the quality, content updates, amount of content, and convenience you get in monthly sub MMO's are much better. Too bad every single monthly sub MMO isn't fun to play anymore.

Hahahahaha, what? What? Really, what?

The only monthly-sub based MMORPG with content updates worth a damn is FFXIV. Everything else (or what's left, anyway) is utter shite in comparison. Even WoW hasn't had a content update in nearly a year, despite having an absolutely insane amount of funding that borders on limitless, and you think subs are inherently superior to F2P models? Give me a fucking break.

Every single person who argues the superiority of P2P is looking at it from a completely biased, often nostalgic perspective. Reality is not so kind. If you want to blame anything, blame capitalism. As long as companies feel the need to resort to unsavory tactics to wrangle money from their customers just to survive, the status quo will continue.

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 11:26 PM
I feel like P2P games dont get steady content updates because of company interests and player apathy.

I only argue for P2P because I want my games completely free of F2P mechanics. I do feel P2P has more potential because there is a steady cash flow, but because of the boon of F2P, a player and his money are hard to into the pool, but once in, it's like their money floods from their pockets.

But then again, just like F2P, companies that do P2P have to have their userbase in mind when planning their route so *shrug*.

You're probably right that my desire for P2P is fueled by the fact that back then we didnt have what we do now and I'd prefer to go back to that.

The status quo isnt good in my opinion.

Shiyo
Jul 29, 2014, 11:29 PM
Hahahahaha, what? What? Really, what?

The only monthly-sub based MMORPG with content updates worth a damn is FFXIV. Everything else (or what's left, anyway) is utter shite in comparison. Even WoW hasn't had a content update in nearly a year, despite having an absolutely insane amount of funding that borders on limitless, and you think subs are inherently superior to F2P models? Give me a fucking break.

Every single person who argues the superiority of P2P is looking at it from a completely biased, often nostalgic perspective. Reality is not so kind. If you want to blame anything, blame capitalism. As long as companies feel the need to resort to unsavory tactics to wrangle money from their customers just to survive, the status quo will continue.
I'd reply to you and discuss this with you properly giving my actual opinion about how bad Blizzard is, but you come off as a total asshole, so good day sir.

Aussei
Jul 29, 2014, 11:30 PM
I'd reply to you but you come off as a total asshole, So good day sir.

You just did though. Also please name someone who isn't an asshole on these forums.

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 11:36 PM
I'd reply to you and discuss this with you properly giving my actual opinion about how bad Blizzard is, but you come off as a total asshole, so good day sir.

No disrespect, but you're not the kindest of maidens either.


You just did though. Also please name someone who isn't an asshole on these forums.

Cyron.

Shiyo
Jul 29, 2014, 11:40 PM
Gigawuts.

Stealthcmc1974
Jul 29, 2014, 11:42 PM
Chidori

The Walrus
Jul 29, 2014, 11:47 PM
I-I'm not an asshole...much

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 11:51 PM
We've clearly gone on a tangent.

Anyone come up with an interesting build yet with the new skill trees?

Like something unorthodox? Really unorthodox?

Skyly
Jul 30, 2014, 12:02 AM
This thread got hijacked faster than the planes that crashed into the TWCs. Nonetheless, the skill trees are overall 'better' looking and have better flow.

gigawuts
Jul 30, 2014, 12:04 AM
This thread got hijacked faster than the plans that crashed into the TWCs. Nonetheless, the skill trees are overall 'better' looking and have better flow.

too soon

Gigawuts.

there are some people who may disagree with you

Skyly
Jul 30, 2014, 12:07 AM
I tried. (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08xnbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdo dBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doboIbIddxdBnocAixJfk00008 do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbno4NjJ2rFmxIk00008) :-?

Tactics trap?

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 12:09 AM
too soon

Yeah the direction of this topic kinda took an MH370 at some point.

Real talk tho.

I was looking at TEFI with a focus on Deband Toughness / Shifta Strike and -slayer tree.

Raising your maximum HP and defense while raising your damage in 2 different ways while making it easier to stay alive while slayer skills are proc'd?

It's like your merging a glass cannon with a tank or something.

Shiyo
Jul 30, 2014, 12:18 AM
Yeah the direction of this topic kinda took an MH370 at some point.

Real talk tho.

I was looking at TEFI with a focus on Deband Toughness / Shifta Strike and -slayer tree.

Raising your maximum HP and defense while raising your damage in 2 different ways while making it easier to stay alive while slayer skills are proc'd?

It's like your merging a glass cannon with a tank or something.

Limit break is FI main only, TE can never use halfline or deadline slayer efficiently.

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 12:22 AM
I said nothing about Limit Break because I know it's FI main only.

Not sure why you say TE can never use halfline or deadline efficently with the new trees. Maybe now sure, but theory put into practice can give surprising results.

If you're using Shifta Strike for bonus damage on top of Deband Toughness for extra defense and HP, and then add in Concentrated Zanverse. Proc -slayer (including PP because why not.) and Wand Reactor?

I mean.

Come on.

You cant say with certainty that it wouldnt be effective to a respectable degree.

Shiyo
Jul 30, 2014, 12:27 AM
If you're ever running around at 25% HP as a techer for a measly 200(I think?) sattk for a total of 20 skill points you're looking to die, real fast.

I don't get what your obsession with techer/fighter is. If you wanna do some weird build, at least pick a class combo that has synergy or makes sense...

FI/HU iron will + never give up + limit break + Halfline and deadline slayer, for example. Which will be FOTM.

untrustful
Jul 30, 2014, 12:33 AM
We've clearly gone on a tangent.

Anyone come up with an interesting build yet with the new skill trees?

Like something unorthodox? Really unorthodox?

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?07fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jebk bkbj5KgScDIkIdIocB000000IbrIdoIbqvHoIkHDrAI200007b 5drFkb4SINiDcAHsI20000jdBeDI2mscCJdiN4NI20000kbI2d xqn44fEAcK0000064O7kkscK4QHNIkqnIn00008boqB4SdnfsN J2fqqdsI20000j

This thing here focuses all classes as much towards hp, pp, pb, etc recovery or higher rates or whatever.

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 12:34 AM
If you're ever running around at 25% HP as a techer for a measly 200(I think?) sattk for a total of 20 skill points you're looking to die, real fast.

I don't get what your obsession with techer/fighter is. If you wanna do some weird build, at least pick a class combo that has synergy or makes sense...

FI/HU iron will + never give up + limit break + Halfline and deadline slayer, for example. Which will be FOTM.


It's not like it'd be your game plan or anything.

Isnt the whole intention of -slayer is that when the conditions are fufilled you take advantage of it?

Other wise, do your best?

Deadline also gives +100 R/Satk.

Though looking over my idea I failed to realize the only multipliers would be from FI stances hahaha.

The idea that I was getting at was to increase your maximum HP to the point where 25% HP isnt going to be a measly amount.

Citing an earlier example where some character was running around with 1250 HP with deband toughness. 25% of that is like 313 HP? That's already around 30-50% of various characters running around in end-game.

I admit, it's a bit....out there. But I personally did say unorthodox/interesting builds.

It's not like this can't be improved upon or something.

COME SHIYO. HAVE SOME FUN.

LIVE A LITTLE.

EDIT: Also I dont have an obsession with TEFI. Your example is anything but weird. It lacks all sorts of interesting/weird aspects. You say that TEFI has no combos or synergy. I say they do and that maybe you're not trying hard enough and that they dont meet your own personal approval. You've been shittalking a lot of the changes and builds and going on about "WELL THIS IS BAD HERE IS WHAT I WOULD HAVE DONE."

Not in this thread specifically, but just in general and as of late.

but hey what do I know.

im just some black kid.

Rakurai
Jul 30, 2014, 12:38 AM
Attack Plus in the Braver Tree sounds like it would be good for boosting TE wand damage.

It's just a pity that Weak Stance isn't triggered in the same way as Element Weak Hit.

Zyrusticae
Jul 30, 2014, 01:07 AM
I feel like P2P games dont get steady content updates because of company interests and player apathy.

I only argue for P2P because I want my games completely free of F2P mechanics. I do feel P2P has more potential because there is a steady cash flow, but because of the boon of F2P, a player and his money are hard to into the pool, but once in, it's like their money floods from their pockets.

But then again, just like F2P, companies that do P2P have to have their userbase in mind when planning their route so *shrug*.

You're probably right that my desire for P2P is fueled by the fact that back then we didnt have what we do now and I'd prefer to go back to that.

The status quo isnt good in my opinion.Quite frankly, there is zero correlation between a game's business model and its content support pipeline. Just looking at all the various games in the industry today, the only constant is that every company does shit differently.

SEGA does not update like Square Enix which does not update like Blizzard which does not update like Carbine which does not update like Arenanet, etc., etc., etc. You cannot point to any one of these games and say "yeah, that company exemplifies that business model" because you can very easily point out a different company using the same business model in a completely different way, and with highly varying levels of success.

Honestly, it baffles me how so many companies with outrageous levels of funding absolutely fail to support their games to an adequate degree. I cannot tell you what's going on in those development houses because they do not show us, but if I were to hazard a guess, many of these places put a C-team on the back burner to support their currently active games while the main development team works on a new game instead. Why no company (besides Square Enix and SEGA to my knowledge) regularly puts huge, enormous emphasis on massively updating their games with all their available resources is a question I cannot answer.


I'd reply to you and discuss this with you properly giving my actual opinion about how bad Blizzard is, but you come off as a total asshole, so good day sir.
The problem with that line of argument is that Blizzard is one of the only companies on the entire planet still sticking with a purely P2P model. TESO and Wildstar are both new and relatively untested and I already mentioned FFXIV, so the market is basically rejecting the notion of P2P and there's really no argument against that.

Also, if I'm laughing at your posts I'm laughing at the content of your posts, not you as an individual. But I guess that's a difficult concept for some(a lot of) people to grasp.

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 01:24 AM
Quite frankly, there is zero correlation between a game's business model and its content support pipeline. Just looking at all the various games in the industry today, the only constant is that every company does shit differently.

SEGA does not update like Square Enix which does not update like Blizzard which does not update like Carbine which does not update like Arenanet, etc., etc., etc. You cannot point to any one of these games and say "yeah, that company exemplifies that business model" because you can very easily point out a different company using the same business model in a completely different way, and with highly varying levels of success.

Honestly, it baffles me how so many companies with outrageous levels of funding absolutely fail to support their games to an adequate degree. I cannot tell you what's going on in those development houses because they do not show us, but if I were to hazard a guess, many of these places put a C-team on the back burner to support their currently active games while the main development team works on a new game instead. Why no company (besides Square Enix and SEGA to my knowledge) regularly puts huge, enormous emphasis on massively updating their games with all their available resources is a question I cannot answer.

Yeah you know what. Solid points.

I most definitely was deluding myself because of my own biases and experience.

There really isnt a concrete way of figuring out correlation in this case.

I can really only say that I'm dreaming of a P2P model that actually works and encourages consumers to participate because the whole F2P game era we're going through really just gets to me and is more personal than anything else.

Either way, we're going on a tangent again. Got any interesting builds to share? V:

Rien
Jul 30, 2014, 01:42 AM
I'm trying to make an Fi/Bo build

but I have no idea what to give Fi anymore

RubyVixen
Jul 30, 2014, 03:16 AM
I have builds for days, Neko.

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 03:30 AM
Well shit nigga. Let's have em.

RubyVixen
Jul 30, 2014, 03:37 AM
To expand upon GHNeko's TeFi tank build:

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08hObsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkdt0f dodBIo00000000jdoInfbnIneAGKfcAJImnI200008doib0000 006do000000lo00000007odAi2rArCGFqB6GAcK00000ibIo00 0000f

FeTeMarl is 564 at 70/70. Our goal is to break ~1600~ after Deband Toughness.

For equipment, I chose:

Leg = Ing Plate
Arm = Irvis Noire/Kings Arm
Rear = Bulb Ireen

+255 HP without abilities

Stamina Boost on the weapon + Units.
Vol Soul on Weapon + Units
Stamina V on the weapons. Vol Soul + Ability Up + 30 gives an 80% chance of succeeding.

After Deband Toughness, HP comes to 1611. Deadline will proc at 25% of max HP which is 403 HP. This is about 60~80% of most characters max hp at endgame. More than enough to survive reliably while receiving the huge boosts from Half and Deadline Slayer. PP Slayer for added benefit.

For weapon, we have a few options.

Crafting a 9* or 10* to be all class, Bio Knuckles, or XQ Knuckles. We can also go the wand smacking route, or Daggers/Double Saber.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 08:19 AM
Here's the TE/RA RA/TE support build I'm working on.
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?085IbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdo dBIoI2i2dBeKeIGBjJkqn000000fdoInfbndAeBqxqxcGcAbnI 200008dobnIbIddxdBIoJfokkIkIk00008dold2OgXqFGNJbhf 20000lobsiN2NGBIkqnIkI2fcF00000lodAi2rBqKGFqBsX000 000IbIo4NisHrI2frIHQHx0000j

I might drop the wand gear related skills and dump the points into shifta and shifta crit though.

EDIT: updated link with tentative ideas for the other classes, taking into account that I only have 1 skill tree for each.

HiOc
Jul 30, 2014, 08:53 AM
Tactics trap?

Late reply, but it seems kind of useless but it could serve a purpose in TD.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 08:55 AM
Late reply, but it seems kind of useless but it could serve a purpose in TD.It depends on how much traps get buffed. Also, where are my freeze traps? >_>

EDIT: It'll give you a way to recover PP without switching from a bullet though. There's bullet save, but since it's only main class I might actually consider getting Tactics Trap.

UnLucky
Jul 30, 2014, 09:12 AM
For full support you should get both Wind Masteries since they improve Zanverse damage. Even just getting lv1 in both will increase everyone's damage by 2%.

Resta Advance is likely going to stay as a linear increase (as well as largely unnecessary) so that single point would only be 1-2%. I'd honestly put it in Shifta Critical instead if it's got nowhere to go (or Rare Mastery).

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 09:23 AM
Actually. How much would maxed out wind masteries improve the damage of zanverse by?

What else impacts Zanverse damage?

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 09:26 AM
For full support you should get both Wind Masteries since they improve Zanverse damage. Even just getting lv1 in both will increase everyone's damage by 2%.

Resta Advance is likely going to stay as a linear increase (as well as largely unnecessary) so that single point would only be 1-2%. I'd honestly put it in Shifta Critical instead if it's got nowhere to go (or Rare Mastery).Well it's not full support, otherwise I wouldn't have so many points in weakhit advanced. The idea is to make builds that I can use with multiple class combinations without needing multiple skill trees, which is really the only reason I still have the wand skills. I moved 4 of the points from territory PP save into wind mastery for good measure anyway though.

I agree about putting that one point in shifta crit instead of resta advanced, if only because of the cool effect. :wacko:

Shiyo
Jul 30, 2014, 09:30 AM
You can't get wind masteries as full melee support.

final_attack
Jul 30, 2014, 09:35 AM
I'm thinking something like this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08kGbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdo dBIbl2fGK8JksSI2000000doIn0000008dofJbIdeKdBdBcAik fbx00008doIbid2OdKqnGAHxh2I20000lofaAJIdsf2NqxIk00 0000dBdAi2rArKGSqB6GAcA00000ibIo000000f) .... any input?

TeFo (Full Support) <- secondary char, for taking a break when playing as dps ..... broken mag (29 T-Atk, 1 S-Atk, 145 Dex)
GuRa (Tools user) <- Tools seems fun.
GuHu (Aggro) <- Should there are too many Ra .... I can offer some kind of support.

Er ... pardon my Fo Tree .... I always wanted to do pure support one (used to do it, since I rarely saw Dual Gun class in MMO I played -.- ), but kinda limited before Techer new tree ^^; Already using Talis as main support weapon (I'll be a dead weight when using Rod OTL )

As for Ra tree ..... I'm not getting much other than those that boost Gu's abilities ..... I'm bad with rifles ^^;

As why taking ZRC ... I didn't find much trouble regarding PP .... so, I can throw in some into that ^^;

I'm gonna level Fo (hopefully I can cap it before Ep 3) after I maxed my Ra on main char .... while it still got some "punch" :wacko:

UnLucky
Jul 30, 2014, 09:47 AM
Actually. How much would maxed out wind masteries improve the damage of zanverse by?

What else impacts Zanverse damage?
Turns 20% into 28.8% with both Wind Masteries.

I thought EWH counted, but JP wiki doesn't have it listed. For the most part, passive skills like Chase+, Perfect Keeper, and Rapid Shoot Mastery count towards it. Wind Mastery latent, race slayer, or Sunny Day work as well.


I agree about putting that one point in shifta crit instead of resta advanced, if only because of the cool effect. :wacko:
This^


You can't get wind masteries as full melee support.
I didn't say anything about melee, but fair enough. He did mention he was considering dropping the wand skills, though. And a full melee would want EWH as well.

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 09:56 AM
And I'm assuming passive skills also include stance skills?

UnLucky
Jul 30, 2014, 09:58 AM
Don't think so, no.

Zyrusticae
Jul 30, 2014, 01:21 PM
Unfortunately, since I always stick with "pure" class combinations (Hu/Fi/Br, Gu/Ra, Fo/Te), I don't really have much in the way of interesting skill combos to come up with.

Most I can do is this rather odd duck (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08kBbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkfbMi YiJfdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doibIddKdBGOcAfqxIkb x00008doIbid2OAxqFqncKhf20000lo00000007oIn0000000l bIo000000f) of a Gu/Ra tree designed explicitly to avoid conditional damage bonuses like Aerial Advance, ZRA, and Standing Snipe. With Elder Rebellion set to get a buff (as the two PAs being left untouched are most likely Heel Stab and Messiah Time), I have some incentive to build my gunner to fight from a distance. Naturally, I also want to try out the newly buffed Showtime and new chain skills, as well as fucking around with the traps (though I'm still not quite sure how I'm going to free up all the hotbar slots for that stuff).

I fully expect this build to be able to rip and tear any boss a new one. Actually, Ra/Gu would probably be better for Bullet Keep, but gotta at least give High Time a proper shot before making that deduction. I'm kind of hoping Upper Trap returns to its former glory as well. Well, okay, maybe not quite that powerful (let's face it, if you could one-shot bosses with traps, that would kind of break the game), but powerful enough to be worth using at least.

Edit: While I'm at it, here, a FoTenewearl dark build with nearly 1,000 T-Atk. (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08uDbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkjbMI YlJdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doibIddKdBGOcAfqxIkbx 00008doIbid2OAxqFqncKhf20000jdBbnznJI2SGBIk000000l oInikeAqoGOdBIdJkcA000007bIo000000f) (The only reason I have T-Def on the mag is because I needed it before they nerfed the T-Def reqs on units. No, I am not making a new one.)

UnLucky
Jul 30, 2014, 01:54 PM
May as well put the 5 extra SP from Showtime into ZRA since it's not really doing all that much for you. But if you're that against ZRA, you can swap to Ra/Gu (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08nBbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkfbMi YiJfdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doboIbIddKdBGOcAfkkI kIk00008dolk2OkkIsqncKhf20000lo00000007oIn0000000l bIo000000f) and make use of Sharpshooter as well as Bullet Keep.

As for Fo/Te, why no Talis Bonus? Besides that, the buffs are main Techer only.

Shinamori
Jul 30, 2014, 02:48 PM
Temp [Fi/Hu (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08dFbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkfbMi YiJfdodBdojc2dB4NI26JksSI2000000dodAfuNdAboGKGKIkc A00000fdoib0000006doIb8qnjhf20000lo00000006dBIn000 0000lbIo000000f)] build

Shiyo
Jul 30, 2014, 02:51 PM
Warbrave is HU main only.

Get deadline/halfline slayer for more limit break damage.

Get at least 1 point in chase advanced

HP up is 100% worthless.

You need points in step advance, dodging is pretty much worthless without at least 3 points in it.

SakoHaruo
Jul 30, 2014, 03:12 PM
Why did you split the two Satk ups? If you're going Slayer build don't waste time with Chase unless you have the points for it, and what does Tech JA do again? I thought it was a skill for FoFi, BoFi. :wacko:

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 03:18 PM
Why did you split the two Satk ups? If you're going Slayer build don't waste time with Chase unless you have the points for it, and what does Tech JA do again? I thought it was a skill for FoFi, BoFi. :wacko:It makes it so that when you use nonconsecutive PAs or Techs they get a damage bonus. I actually don't think it's very good for fighter specifically, and S-roll JA makes it pretty questionable for gunner.

EDIT: To clarify I'm saying it probably IS only good for Fo/Fi and Bo/Fi, but probably not for the reasons you think.

UnLucky
Jul 30, 2014, 03:37 PM
Start every combo with Chaos Riser? Cause that's what Tech Arts sounds like to me.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 03:43 PM
Start every combo with Chaos Riser? Cause that's what Tech Arts sounds like to me.There are honestly some great combos you can pull off with most of the weapons... it's just that a lot of the PAs for them are pretty mediocre. Gunner is the only class that can REALLY do it well... but then there's S-roll JA, which just disincentivises it even more.

Why do Aerial Shooting>Satelite Aim>Elder Rebellion (which is a really good combo mechanically) when you can just S-roll elder rebellion or Infinity fire?

SakoHaruo
Jul 30, 2014, 03:51 PM
So as of right now practical use is limited to Daggers, Sabers, and Fire Techs (that's all I can think of right now). S-Rolling out of a PA for more damage every time would cost too much and take longer to kill. But, at least you get to play around with GuFi.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 03:54 PM
So as of right now practical use is limited to Daggers, Sabers, and Fire Techs (that's all I can think of right now). S-Rolling out of a PA for more damage every time would cost too much and take longer to kill. But, at least you get to play around with GuFi.Pretty sure S-roll would cancel it. Depending on how big the bonus is though, it could end up making up for the difference with speed.

Zyrusticae
Jul 30, 2014, 04:05 PM
May as well put the 5 extra SP from Showtime into ZRA since it's not really doing all that much for you. But if you're that against ZRA, you can swap to Ra/Gu (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08nBbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkfbMi YiJfdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doboIbIddKdBGOcAfkkI kIk00008dolk2OkkIsqncKhf20000lo00000007oIn0000000l bIo000000f) and make use of Sharpshooter as well as Bullet Keep.

As for Fo/Te, why no Talis Bonus? Besides that, the buffs are main Techer only.
The problem with RA/GU is that I don't have an all-class TMG to abuse. But I suppose those points probably are better put into ZRA anyway since slightly faster gear building/aggro generation isn't really that high on my list of priorities.

Yeah, I missed the TE-only thing since there's no descriptions on the simulator for those. :-) As for Talis, I don't use them. Never will. It's expensive enough to find a rod with dark element and a dark potential; I do not have the funding to do the same with a Talis.

Xaelouse
Jul 30, 2014, 04:20 PM
So as of right now practical use is limited to Daggers, Sabers, and Fire Techs (that's all I can think of right now).

how can you forget knuckles?
Pendulum roll and flash thousand arent that far behind BHS in DPS as it is

UnLucky
Jul 30, 2014, 04:30 PM
They absolutely are lower DPS since they take way longer. But it could combo well with Tech Arts if it's enough of a boost.

SakoHaruo
Jul 30, 2014, 05:24 PM
Pretty sure S-roll would cancel it. Depending on how big the bonus is though, it could end up making up for the difference with speed.

I assumed it would cancel the bonus, but then I remembered S-Roll registers much different than normal JAs(or does it). You never know, it's Sega. it might slip through as a bug.


how can you forget knuckles?
Pendulum roll and flash thousand arent that far behind BHS in DPS as it is


I said, "as of right now" and "practical." Yes the damage is decent on those, but is it the most efficient? Doesn't matter, though. When episode 3 goes lives, with over 100 melee PA buffs, all that will soon change. The PA I'm interested to get my hands on the most is Straight Charge. If Sega buffs the damage and increase its AOE a bit we may have a game changer. I say this because it's one of the few Fighter PAs that doesn't stop your forward momentum, and you keep knuckle gear bonuses even if you were to jump in the air.

Skyly
Jul 30, 2014, 07:48 PM
Can someone shed light on "only takes effect on your main class?" For example. If I put a point into a pass that has that description on my subclass.. does that mean my main class won't be able to use it. The passive I'm talking about is long-time assist. It's on the Techer tree so that means Fo can't get any benefit from it if I'm Fo/Te?

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 08:00 PM
Can someone shed light on "only takes effect on your main class?" For example. If I put a point into a pass that has that description on my subclass.. does that mean my main class won't be able to use it. The passive I'm talking about is long-time assist. It's on the Techer tree so that means Fo can't get any benefit from it if I'm Fo/Te?Yup, that's exactly what it means.

NoiseHERO
Jul 30, 2014, 08:04 PM
I'm still wondering if it's only DAMAGE they're buffing for specific PAs... other than the speed/range buffs they're getting in general. You know... to match the PA of the month on X class' dps.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 08:07 PM
I'm still wondering if it's only DAMAGE they're buffing for specific PAs... other than the speed/range buffs they're getting in general. You know... to match the PA of the month on X class' dps.Well the buffs to ranger PAs before included PP cost changes for some ofthem so I wouldn't be surprised if that gets changed here too.

Skyly
Jul 30, 2014, 08:08 PM
Yup, that's exactly what it means.

Meh. The only passive that's Techer only is Long-time assist correct? All other Shift/Deband passives are usable by Fo? I know the skill sim is a beta and may not have the correct descriptions..

Shift Advance
Shift Strike
Deband Advance
Deband Cut
Deband Toughness

If anyone could shed light on these being Techer only that'd be great.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 08:19 PM
Meh. The only passive that's Techer only is Long-time assist correct? All other Shift/Deband passives are usable by Fo? I know the skill sim is a beta and may not have the correct descriptions..

Shift Advance
Shift Strike
Deband Advance
Deband Cut
Deband Toughness

If anyone could shed light on these being Techer only that'd be great.Shifta Strike and Deband Toughness are too.

Shinamori
Jul 31, 2014, 12:58 AM
Warbrave is HU main only.
You need points in step advance, dodging is pretty much worthless without at least 3 points in it.

Spin2Win.

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 02:24 AM
There are honestly some great combos you can pull off with most of the weapons... it's just that a lot of the PAs for them are pretty mediocre. Gunner is the only class that can REALLY do it well... but then there's S-roll JA, which just disincentivises it even more.

Why do Aerial Shooting>Satelite Aim>Elder Rebellion (which is a really good combo mechanically) when you can just S-roll elder rebellion or Infinity fire?

Please remove S roll Sega.

Also sword can combo pa's nicely too. Rising edge overend and twister fall all work nicely together. I already rising edge into overend as it is.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 07:31 AM
Please remove S roll Sega.

Also sword can combo pa's nicely too. Rising edge overend and twister fall all work nicely together. I already rising edge into overend as it is.There's seriously nothing wrong with S-roll, the multiplier is just too high. It should be worth using as an opener or when you happen to be s-rolling anyway, but less effecient than just using PAs one after the other.

Part of the problem is that most, if not all, of the PAs it works best with have long animations, so you don't have to s-roll as often, and s-roll between attacks is faster than using the PA again. You could get 3 satelite aims in faster than you could satelite aim then s-roll for instance.

Achelousaurus
Jul 31, 2014, 09:13 AM
Why do Aerial Shooting>Satelite Aim>Elder Rebellion (which is a really good combo mechanically) when you can just S-roll elder rebellion or Infinity fire?
Yeah :-(
I love that combo and Heel Stab (uncharged for speed) > Reverse Tab, hell even Dead Approach > Messiah Time is fun.
But SRoll makes it pointless.
What gunner needs is not a buff to chain but a major nerf to S Roll boost and a major bonus to chaining different PAs.
For once make a class where good damage doesn't just come from repeating the same thing over an over.

Anyway, looking the skill simulator I found that my dream Braver build (http://pso2skillsimulator.com/braver2/index.php?code=03000400010105101003101005050500000 0000000000000010100000010010005D) actually has 4 points over :-D
Essentially maxing everything Katana related + max Step Advance (lag buffer) and then the last 4 of the points into S-Atk up.

Combined with an EPIC Hunter build (http://pso2skillsimulator.com/hunter2/index.php?code=05000000010101101010050505100000000 00000000000000005001000000000000100000000010000000 0)as sub but that can also be my regular Hunter main build.
Essentially max Fury + max Iron Will (just how the hell is Sega gonna sell Scapedolls now?)+ all gears.

Also a very nice Hunter tank build (http://pso2skillsimulator.com/hunter2/index.php?code=05000000010101100005000000001010100 00010000000000010051000000000000100000000010000000 0D).
Skipping Fury cause I will only use Guard Stance + Flash Guard 1 and Tech Flash guard maxed + all gears + max Iron Will + max Warcry / Warbrave and the leftover points into JA boost (15) so my damage isn't too low.

Also a nice Fighter build (http://pso2skillsimulator.com/fighter2/index.php?code=03000001010110050000031000000000101 000101000010500000000000000000000), but here I would want more points.
Maxing both stances + all gears + Tech Art JA bonus / PP Slayer / Chase Advance / Chase Advance Plus maxed.

And a cool Gunner build (http://pso2skillsimulator.com/gunner2/index.php?code=03000001050000100010001005001010010 100000000000500000000020205).
Going all Showtime and skipping all Zero Range Advantage and Perfect Keeper cause I rarely find myself really close to enemies and if, I don't S Roll enough for Perfect Keeper to have a chance to kick in (mostly cause I don't wanna interrupt every 2nd PA when I don't have to and usually can just heal after it, not missign out on the damage, though of course I use sroll if I am not 100% sure I will survive and can easily heal).

That's it, haven't played ra/fo/te enough to have much of an opinion about what to get.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 09:24 AM
Also sword can combo pa's nicely too. Rising edge overend and twister fall all work nicely together. I already rising edge into overend as it is.
What, and not Guilty Break? Not sure what adding Rising Edge or Twister Fall before or after a better PA is going to accomplish.

But who knows what the planned changes will bring

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 10:16 AM
What, and not Guilty Break? Not sure what adding Rising Edge or Twister Fall before or after a better PA is going to accomplish.

But who knows what the planned changes will bring

Rising edge -> overend lets you hit malmoths horn vol dragons horn wolgies face and be completely above certain bosses attacks like the seabed miniboss boss thing(can't remember name).

It's great.

You also end with twister fall as your PA before you fall but it's not worth doing atm.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 10:40 AM
Ah, positioning, that's understandable. If there were something other than Overend for pure damage then it'd be a lot better if you could use either Guilty Break or Rising Edge before anything without requiring 4+ palettes to do it.

Also tangentially related (at like 30s mostly):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8CSXgy595A&t=25s

SakoHaruo
Jul 31, 2014, 10:55 AM
Rising edge into OE. Flowchart Hu. o3o

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 01:08 PM
Ah, positioning, that's understandable. If there were something other than Overend for pure damage then it'd be a lot better if you could use either Guilty Break or Rising Edge before anything without requiring 4+ palettes to do it.

Also tangentially related (at like 30s mostly):
[PSO2]??????(SH) Br/Hu - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8CSXgy595A&t=25s)

I don't get why Hatou isn't being nerfed or why people don't complain about it being obscenely broken.

GHNeko
Jul 31, 2014, 01:15 PM
Because it's extremely PP inefficient, and you only get max DPS when you hit with the sweetspot creating a skill requirement which isnt exactly met by a lot of players because they're too busy with Shunka Dunka? You also have to drop your assault and create proper spacing every time since you're more than likely going to be in the face of whatever your clobbering.

Once you dump your PP, Hatou isnt really as useful or appealing an option.

Not only that, but Hatou is a PA that has you sit back and spam from a distance which is the anti-thesis of which is the exciting playstyle that is Katana.

So unless you're a hybrid BR that can Hatou PP Dump and then switch to bow for PP regeneration in order to maintain distance for Hatou's sweetspot, you're not really going to get the most out of Hatou except in very specific situations and scenarios.

It's not broken or OP. It's just Level 1 XFactor status. Great damage for like 4 seconds and then you have to wait a long time before you can use it again.

Xaelouse
Jul 31, 2014, 01:38 PM
I don't get why Hatou isn't being nerfed or why people don't complain about it being obscenely broken.

It's fine the way it is.
Even more so when most likely every other PA but hatou gets buffed come ep3

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 02:03 PM
Not only that, but Hatou is a PA that has you sit back and spam from a distance which is the anti-thesis of which is the exciting playstyle that is Katana.



Is the exact reason I want it nerfed. It's so boring to use, I never use it.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 02:14 PM
Hatou is perfect the way it is. You have to fight against Katana Combat's autodash as well as the target likely approaching you when you have aggro. Then you can't gain PP back with normal attacks since you're too far away.

Asagiri and Shunka are way simpler so the damage on those should be lower.

Here's hoping Tsukimi gets a good enough buff to warrant comboing with Gekka. Just a bit of damage and way lower PP cost. Same thing for the stun PA.

Hien can uh, maybe they'd um... I got nothin :-?

Zyrusticae
Jul 31, 2014, 02:24 PM
Hien-Tsubaki suffers from having too much overlap with other PAs. It can't work well as either a ranged attack (Hatou is better), a crowd control attack (Kanran is better), or a pure damage attack (Hatou is better)... though I suppose it could represent a middle ground between the high-damage but high-precision of Hatou and the ease of use of Kanran. You don't have to aim nearly as much as Hatou but it has a smaller AoE and is slower than Kanran so it should do decent damage more reliably, yeah?

But then we have the problem of its AoE being so damn close to that of Sakura Endo...

Maybe they should just replace it entirely. Blehhh.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 02:58 PM
It's Katana's Deadly Circle.

As in, strictly inferior to every option you could possibly imagine in any circumstance.

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 03:19 PM
It'd be fine if it's damage was equal to the strongest katana PA's(not the overend one). Let's you stay in the air and quick PP dump, but it's damage is too low right now.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 03:32 PM
It'd be fine if it's damage was equal to the strongest katana PA's(not the overend one). Let's you stay in the air and quick PP dump, but it's damage is too low right now.That would make it overpowered, unless you mean a single hit from the strongest katana PA...

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 03:57 PM
That would make it overpowered, unless you mean a single hit from the strongest katana PA...

What? No I mean every single hien hit combined does as much damage as the more powerful katana PA's.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 03:58 PM
What? No I mean every single hien hit combined does as much damage as the more powerful katana PA's.Oh derp, you're talking about Hien, my bad. I dunno why I thought you were talking about tsukimi.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 04:01 PM
It has a slight range and AoE but it doesn't hit the same target enough times for enough damage unless you're really close and the hitbox is really large. As in, whenever you do not need its range nor AoE.

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 04:15 PM
It has a slight range and AoE but it doesn't hit the same target enough times for enough damage unless you're really close and the hitbox is really large. As in, whenever you do not need its range nor AoE.

Hien is rockin' on falz arms

And uh

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 04:29 PM
Hien is rockin' on falz arms

And uh

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
That's what it's meant for, staying in the air and bursting/dumping PP really quick.

It simply just needs a damage boost to be a good PA, so easily fixable.

Double saber, twin dagger, and most partizan PA's on the other hand........

Zyrusticae
Jul 31, 2014, 04:56 PM
Double saber, twin dagger, and most partizan PA's on the other hand........
Sounds like it's BRAINSTORMING TIME!

I'm only gonna do this for Partizan because it's, liek, my most favorite Hunter weapon of all time:
In general - Speed up the twirls and decrease the time it takes to get the circle. Those damn twirls kill the damage output of this weapon.
Slide Shaker - Slight increase in AoE, and make it hit as hard as Nova Strike did in the preview. It should be the premier screen-clearing attack for partisan users, with the downside of being slow and unsafe. Extremely PP efficient.
Speed Rain - Just needs to hit harder! But not TOO hard, since it IS pretty much a ranged attack. This should be a good attack to go to when you want to hit enemies in a line or just keep a safe distance.
Rising Flag - Drop the PP cost, since, as a launcher attack, it's pretty much the precursor to a follow-up attack (like Speed Rain) anyway. (It's funny how it got its attack boosted at level 11, and then again at level 16, and it still isn't used by anyone.)
Zenith Throw - Put an emphasis on the 'throw' part: make the thrown enemy do absolutely massive damage to itself and everything it comes in contact with. An enemy (even a big one) thrown into three or more enemies should be guaranteed to die. Also, speed it up a bit. Even with such a buff people would probably gravitate to Slide Shaker anyway, but you never know.
Trick Rave - It's fine. Add a little bit more damage or whatever, but it has its niche (hitting annoyingly hard-to-hit targets thanks to its ability to completely ignore the Z axis). Edit: On second thought, here's a buff idea for ya: remove the drill at the end, replace it with the player becoming a living nuke. Yes.
Slide End - It's fine. Make the level 16 disc change retroactive for the whole thing and we're done.
Assault Buster - I have no idea why they buffed Slide End but not this one. Give it a similar buff, with maybe 100 or so less power to compensate for the fact that it's also a travel PA. I mean, it's basically Slide End with movement.
Bandersnatch - You might not believe me, but this is one of the best Partisan PAs of all time. So safe, so effective, it's the best boss-killer you can ask for. ...But with everything else getting a buff, obviously it could use one, too. Just give it moar POWAHHH!
Sacred Skewer - A ranged artillery attack, for partisan? Fuck off. ...But seriously, if this is going to be a thing, just make sure it hits hard enough to justify the PP cost. But not TOO hard, or else we'll hear more complaining about HU replacing FO (lol).
Vol Graptor - I have nothing to say about this.

And there's my 2c and half a penny. But don't even ask me about double sabers...

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 05:26 PM
But Bandersnatch is weak and forces you outside of melee range, the very last thing you want to do as a melee class. Maybe if they made it twice as strong so it'd be worth Symphonic Driving it, but Partisan doesn't work the same way to allow for that.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 05:28 PM
But Bandersnatch is weak and forces you outside of melee range, the very last thing you want to do as a melee class. Maybe if they made it twice as strong so it'd be worth Symphonic Driving it, but Partisan doesn't work the same way to allow for that.Following it up with a PA that has long reach (something Partisans don't have in short supply) is usually what I do.

Zyrusticae
Jul 31, 2014, 05:36 PM
But Bandersnatch is weak and forces you outside of melee range, the very last thing you want to do as a melee class. Maybe if they made it twice as strong so it'd be worth Symphonic Driving it, but Partisan doesn't work the same way to allow for that.
You might not know this because you never use it, but Bandersnatching in the air removes the backstep portion.

But yeah, as with almost everything else, more damage is always nice.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 05:40 PM
Oh, so it becomes a weaker [insert PA here]

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 05:41 PM
But Bandersnatch is weak and forces you outside of melee range, the very last thing you want to do as a melee class. Maybe if they made it twice as strong so it'd be worth Symphonic Driving it, but Partisan doesn't work the same way to allow for that.

Bandersnatch doesn't force you out of melee range if you use it in the air.

Oh someone said that, oops.

The problem with most dagger, double saber, and partizan PA's is that they like...lack interesting concepts. They're so bland and boring.

Zyrusticae
Jul 31, 2014, 05:44 PM
Oh, so it becomes a weaker [insert PA here]
That's kinda reductive.

With so many PAs and so many weapons it's inevitable that there's going to be at least some overlap.

Xaelouse
Jul 31, 2014, 05:48 PM
There is nothing bland and boring about Surprise Dunk.

LonelyGaruga
Jul 31, 2014, 05:49 PM
Please remove S roll Sega.

Also sword can combo pa's nicely too. Rising edge overend and twister fall all work nicely together. I already rising edge into overend as it is.


I don't get why Hatou isn't being nerfed or why people don't complain about it being obscenely broken.


Is the exact reason I want it nerfed. It's so boring to use, I never use it.


The problem with most dagger, double saber, and partizan PA's is that they like...lack interesting concepts. They're so bland and boring.

Please stop.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 05:53 PM
I honestly never knew Bandersnatch became usable in the air, but other PAs can be used in the air and on the ground and with Step Attack and do more damage.

So because of all the overlap, why dedicate a weapon palette to it?

It's like the entire game is carefully designed to overshadow redundant PAs and technics. I'm kind of surprised there isn't some sort of paywall to escape the trap of learning the intentionally worthless discs.

Zyrusticae
Jul 31, 2014, 05:53 PM
I suppose it should be noted that Partisan is one of the worst weapons when it comes to the combo system, as a number of its PAs are really, really bad at being combo'd AND you have the gear system that distinctly discourages you from making consecutive attack chains. It's much more of a burst damage/AoE type weapon than anything else in the game, sword included. With that in mind, it may be prudent to, say, increase PP costs but give all of its PAs the highest power ratings possible to encourage people to really use the gear system to their advantage.

On the other hand, this would dramatically reduce its efficacy during boss battles... Hmmm...

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 05:54 PM
I honestly never knew Bandersnatch became usable in the air, but other PAs can be used in the air and on the ground and with Step Attack and do more damage.

So because of all the overlap, why dedicate a weapon palette to it?

It's like the entire game is carefully designed to overshadow redundant PAs and technics. I'm surprised there isn't some sort of paywall to escape the trap of learning the intentionally worthless discs.
That's why buffing the damage of those PA's won't really do anything, because they're not very interesting in the slightest and just generic PA #305530.

I also hate how it's gear system works, it's a cool concept though.

Zyrusticae
Jul 31, 2014, 05:59 PM
Wow, okay, sloooowww dooowwwwn.

We've had this conversation before. It is okay for PAs in different weapon styles to have some overlap with equivalent PAs in other weapon styles. Yes, one or the other will be superior to the others in some way, BUT THAT'S OKAY. As long as the differences are small enough to be considered balanced by any reasonable individual, we're good. That's the end goal.

The more important thing is whether or not each weapon is fun to use and has its own distinct fighting style. Anyone who only cares about being the most super-optimal they can possibly be at all times will of course be spamming the same damn PAs over and over again, but that's not a knock against the game if they've done a good enough job of minimizing issues such that their advantage is a miniscule one.

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 06:04 PM
The more important thing is whether or not each weapon is fun to use and has its own distinct fighting style.

That's my problem with partizan, it's only good PA's are negative fun to use. I like all the weak PA's, hopefully they fix them all properly.

Gardios
Jul 31, 2014, 06:18 PM
I just want Slide Shaker to be stronger so I have more excuses to be a helicopter. Not like I need any...

weeeeeeeeeeee~

LonelyGaruga
Jul 31, 2014, 09:34 PM
That's why buffing the damage of those PA's won't really do anything, because they're not very interesting in the slightest and just generic PA #305530.


That's my problem with partizan, it's only good PA's are negative fun to use. I like all the weak PA's, hopefully they fix them all properly.

OK seriously, would you quit talking like your opinion is actually relevant on this matter? "I don't like the good PAs, so that makes the weapon bad", "All the PAs I like are bad, they need to be buffed", this tiresomely self-centered mindset is useless for balancing the game. It's really obvious that you just want the game to cater to your own preferences. This inherently makes your opinion less valuable, since it shows a clear bias toward what you want, and not what actually works within the game, and what would produce a balanced game. You're the only one that cares about what you have to say. If you want to talk about changing the game, it's necessary to think objectively, not say "I like this, so it must be a good idea!" like you've been doing.

Rakurai
Jul 31, 2014, 09:42 PM
They mentioned that partisans are going to feel like a new weapon because of how much of a speed increase they're getting in the broadcast.

Hope they'll be at least twice as fast as before.

Zyrusticae
Aug 1, 2014, 12:00 AM
They mentioned that partisans are going to feel like a new weapon because of how much of a speed increase they're getting in the broadcast.

Hope they'll be at least twice as fast as before.
Did they? That's... that sounds good. That sounds very good. Yes. Yes, I like that.

Goukezitsu
Aug 1, 2014, 12:36 AM
Some interesting input on hunters in here. Some really nice input too from some. Good to see some of you all still play hunter, but there's some obvious lack of hunter knowledge running around in here too lol.

What hunter PA's can benefit from and how some actually work:


Sword


Twister Fall: Back in the day before everything became able to be 1 shot twister fall was used as a safe option that allowed you to DPS and block at any moment making it a very valuable tool for hunters at that time to protect themselves at any moment while sneaking in quick damage the very instance an opening was available. Now what it would need to be viable is a lot more power and perhaps changing the width on the shockwave on sword gear lv 3 to make it a bit more viable for mobbing as the shock wave is pretty much useless now.

Stun Concido: like quake howling is actually a move that activates chase. It seems weak but its only purpose is to put the enemy in stun which makes chase advance usable and then you use another pa. Some power would be nice and perhaps some more range on sg lv 3 ripples.

Guilty Break: takes to much pp. Its a great move but it needs way less pp for the amount of damage it cranks out. That's not to say its bad as sg lv 3 charges are nice but i'd like to see it more spammable with just uncharged jas.

Rising Edge: is actually strong as fuck and perfect for reaching weak spots. If you don't use rising edge at all you have no idea what you are doing. The big secret to making hunter do more damage is to reach those weakspots that are normally unavailable by conventional hunter weapons. Fighters with daggers or if you have twin kamui used to be the only good way to get into those spots. Rising edge supplements that and fully charged cranks out some very nice damage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-GbphfK8Yw old but pretty much this is why lol. It just needs a little more power and a little less pp but I'd be okay if it were the same. It's not weak.

Over End: Would like first slashes to do more. The rest of it is fine to me.

Sonic Arrow: less pp. way less pp. Rest can stay tho.

Ride Slasher: Best move ever already. If they make it better than cool lol. I don't think it needs all that much it's already very strong, has amazing mobility, can damage fleeing enemies, and can reach weakspots and even focus on them due to being able to surf in the air. Shorter charge animation on sg lv 3 for it and maybe the ability to rs in place if pressing against an enemy vs surfing by if head on.

Nova Strike: Should be stronger on start up instead of the strongest hit being the last and sg lv3 on all charge moves need to be instant imo.

Sacrifice Bite: The new changes are good enough. Should work between multiple swords tho. Its annoying to swap between sun deity and light formation and the effects die.

Cruel Throw: A little faster and a bit more damage overall even tho its actually not bad. Just needs more speed.


Wired lances are strong so I don't really have much to say about those cept these few


Kaiser Rise: Needs to be stronger period. If your going to use it its gotta be 1 shotting windra without question because its not that fast and is very specific. It also needs less start up time but if it 1 shot windra I'd be cool with the same speed lol.

Cerberus Dance: While its mostly for building wl gear the swipes need to be stronger up front and shouldn't be so back end loaded. It needs to happen to make wl even more useful in non grapple situations. There's currently not a ton of good options for that and adding power to the front swipes of this would be just what the weapon needed.

Holding Current: Ropes need to be able to be clicked at any part not just on the contact point. So basically the entire cable should be a sweet spot for you to infinity fire mash damage and not just the ends.

Rest of the stuff is really strong, has multiple hits to activate chase easier, and end in stun which activate chase as well so no complaints there.


Partisan

Side Shaker: needs to be faster and have more range outside of partisan gear and inside. Needs to be less back loaded with the front hits doing more over all than that last big hit. A little vacuum would be nice but w/e that might be too much.

Speed Rain: either needs to be wider or just stronger. If its wider, it doesn't need more power. If its stronger, it doesn't need to be wider.

Rising Flag: would be awesome if it was stronger. good stationary damage with knock up for flipping some enemies to keep you safe if you need to as well as exposing weakspots on some. Low pp usage as well and could be nice overall if it did alot more than it does now. Shock wave needs width or range or just needs to be removed lol.

Zenith Throw: faster.

Trick Rave: awesome already. Very strong aoe with a huge hit box. Great for applying status and doing great damage as well. Can maintain gear on its on while landing so you never run out. Wouldn't be mad if they gave it more power but its fine as is personally.

Slide End: should charge way faster or non charged should do a lot more.

Assault Buster: power boost but its good already for what its used for.

Bandersnatch: used to be amazing. great stationary damage in mid air and if you are on the ground you can just dash out before the step back. Incredibly safe and used to drop some nice numbers. Would benefit from a power boost but the pa itself is awesome.

Sacred Skewer: Pp reduction. The damage is fine as is tho. Should be more spammable for the damage it does at range. I can spam it with my gear but I dunno. I'd like it to be able to be a little more versatile since it eats gear so quickly. Little wider splash too but I can do without that.

Vol Graptor: sleeper move that will benefit massively from partisan power upgrades. needs a bit more range on uncharged tho. With gear the charge times and all it's better but I'd like to see an overall speed increase and range increase without gear. Works nice with slide end that's kind why I want bander and the others to get boosted because this pa would benefit from that the most.

I'm tired now though I'll do fighter and braver later sometime, but that's what I think hunter could benefit from.

GHNeko
Aug 1, 2014, 12:40 AM
Gunslash buffs when?

Achelousaurus
Aug 1, 2014, 04:17 AM
Just wanna point out Partizan PAs are absurdly weak and need 300% damage to make the weapon really worth using.
When I still using Roundeet, it had like 250 S-Atk. Nonetheless Asagiri did double damage of a Slide End / Assault Buster with a 550 S-Atk Partizan.
Roundeet Asagiri did 6 hits with about 550 damage, Charged Slide / Assault Buster did both 1500-1800 damage.
Whyever would I use partizan when I can use a 3 times faster, 3 times stronger weapon with only a bit less reach and aoe?

And honestly, it doesn't matter if you get massive damage in some scenarios cause it still means without tons of multipliers partizan is weak.
If I have the same multipliers with Katana, the damage is still gonna be 3 times more.

Partizan damage is too low to make it a useful weapon.
Likewise Sword is too slow to make it really useful.

No wonder Ep 3 has massive buffs to every hunter weapon and speed ups and less recovery frames.

Rakurai
Aug 1, 2014, 05:42 AM
With all buffs the classes getting, I really hope that Ultimate difficulty is going to live up to its name, because things are going to be easier then ever until then.

Shiyo
Aug 1, 2014, 05:46 AM
Just wanna point out Partizan PAs are absurdly weak and need 300% damage to make the weapon really worth using.
When I still using Roundeet, it had like 250 S-Atk. Nonetheless Asagiri did double damage of a Slide End / Assault Buster with a 550 S-Atk Partizan.
Roundeet Asagiri did 6 hits with about 550 damage, Charged Slide / Assault Buster did both 1500-1800 damage.
Whyever would I use partizan when I can use a 3 times faster, 3 times stronger weapon with only a bit less reach and aoe?

And honestly, it doesn't matter if you get massive damage in some scenarios cause it still means without tons of multipliers partizan is weak.
If I have the same multipliers with Katana, the damage is still gonna be 3 times more.

Partizan damage is too low to make it a useful weapon.
Likewise Sword is too slow to make it really useful.

No wonder Ep 3 has massive buffs to every hunter weapon and speed ups and less recovery frames.
Sword isn't slow, that's a common misconception. It's true that certain sword PA's need to be faster(nova strike is the perfect example) but it's gotten lots of good PA's over updates and still has sonic arrow/riding edge as older ones.

Partizan is weak if you aren't using it's only 4 good PA's, this is true. Even though PA's aren't very good, right now Partizan is like a ranged nuking melee weapon that just isn't fun(imo) to use at all.

Kondibon
Aug 1, 2014, 10:45 AM
Sword isn't slow, that's a common misconception. It's true that certain sword PA's need to be faster(nova strike is the perfect example) but it's gotten lots of good PA's over updates and still has sonic arrow/riding edge as older ones.

Partizan is weak if you aren't using it's only 4 good PA's, this is true. Even though PA's aren't very good, right now Partizan is like a ranged nuking melee weapon that just isn't fun(imo) to use at all.When people saysword is slow they mean that you have to build up the gear before it reaches it's full potential. All of the charged PAs are REALLY slow without it, and overend loses half it's damage.

Also sonic arrow hasn't kept up at all.

LonelyGaruga
Aug 1, 2014, 02:57 PM
Partizan is weak if you aren't using it's only 4 good PA's, this is true. Even though PA's aren't very good, right now Partizan is like a ranged nuking melee weapon that just isn't fun(imo) to use at all.

What 4 Partisan PAs are you referring to as good? Assault Buster/Slide End/Sacred Skewer/Vol Graptor? Of those, only Sacred Skewer actually matches that description, and even then, it's not a "nuke" at all, just an attack to use for otherwise difficult targets. Unless you seriously think Vol Graptor + Sacred Skewer is actually a good idea, describing Partisans like this makes no sense whatsoever.

I'd cover swords too, but Kondibon beat me to it.

Xaelouse
Aug 1, 2014, 03:02 PM
vol graptor + sacred skewer would actually be a great long-distance nuke combo if sacred skewer took up less PP.

Shiyo
Aug 1, 2014, 03:21 PM
When people saysword is slow they mean that you have to build up the gear before it reaches it's full potential. All of the charged PAs are REALLY slow without it, and overend loses half it's damage.

Also sonic arrow hasn't kept up at all.

Sonic arrow is still swords best mobbing tool and one of the best mobbing tools for melee characters.

2 rider slashers on a boss fills gear to 100% with only 1/5 fury gear boost.

LonelyGaruga
Aug 1, 2014, 03:22 PM
vol graptor + sacred skewer would actually be a great long-distance nuke combo if sacred skewer took up less PP.

There's no reason to do that though. Vol Graptor takes long enough that on any mob, you'd be better off spamming Sacred Skewer instead of waiting for Vol Graptor to detonate after a couple Sacred Skewers, while on bosses, you'd be better off using Slide End, which is a considerably better combo for DPS.


Sonic arrow is still swords best mobbing tool and one of the best mobbing tools for melee characters.

2 rider slashers on a boss fills gear to 100% with only 1/5 fury gear boost.

There are loads of better melee PAs for mobbing than Sonic Arrow, and Ride Slasher filling up gear quickly against bosses makes no difference when it comes to its mobbing capabilities, which are a big issue for it.

ReverseSeraf
Aug 1, 2014, 03:22 PM
Just wanna point out Partizan PAs are absurdly weak and need 300% damage to make the weapon really worth using.
When I still using Roundeet, it had like 250 S-Atk. Nonetheless Asagiri did double damage of a Slide End / Assault Buster with a 550 S-Atk Partizan.
Roundeet Asagiri did 6 hits with about 550 damage, Charged Slide / Assault Buster did both 1500-1800 damage.
Whyever would I use partizan when I can use a 3 times faster, 3 times stronger weapon with only a bit less reach and aoe?

And honestly, it doesn't matter if you get massive damage in some scenarios cause it still means without tons of multipliers partizan is weak.
If I have the same multipliers with Katana, the damage is still gonna be 3 times more.

Partizan damage is too low to make it a useful weapon.
Likewise Sword is too slow to make it really useful.

No wonder Ep 3 has massive buffs to every hunter weapon and speed ups and less recovery frames.

You're comparing two PAs for entirely different purposes. Slide End is supposed to be a huge AoE PA that does decent damage. Same with Assault Buster. Asagiri is a single target PA that will obviously do more damage: otherwise, balance-wise, it would make absolutely no sense to use that PA at all (like how it was prebuff). A "bit less reach and AoE" is a huge understatement

What would make partisan fall short of katana would be its inefficient, ineffective bossing capabilities due to OTHER PAs falling short. So in that regard, I will agree with you. But placing Assault Buster and Slide End into that is a grave mistake.

Your 2nd paragraph made no sense at all

final_attack
Aug 4, 2014, 10:28 PM
Uh ..... a little bit of question here ..... need some input from other people ^^;

Between these build ..... which one is more preferred for supporting mpa? Along with choice of weapon Talis .....

- Green Duel Gaze (16% Wind Tech bonus - for Zanverse Purpose) <- I hope it's not that expensive >_< I might craft this one too, to increase T-Atk (more heals).
- Giri Heart (Healing Wind - 26% Resta bonus, crafted to ExLv 12 for T-Atk purpose) <- I already own this one

Maxed Wind Mastery - Resta Advance (http://pso2skillsimulator.com/techter2/index.php?code=05000000100501050505100500000001011 01000000000000000000000000000010501000000D)

Maxed Wind Mastery - Shifta Advance (http://pso2skillsimulator.com/techter2/index.php?code=05000000101001050005100500000001011 01000000000000000000000000000010501000000D)

Maxed Shifta Advance - Resta Advance - Wind Mastery 1 ..... Lv 5 Wind Mastery 2 (http://pso2skillsimulator.com/techter2/index.php?code=05000000101001050505100500000001011 00500000000000000000000000000010501000000D)

Um, my current Resta is around 800++ (61/57 FoTe, still at 90-ish T-Atk Mag, Resta Advance lv 5 - requirement only, with Giri Heart). Without Giri Heart and Resta advance, it would be around 500-600, right? Is it enough? Especially to heal people with tank build and future Deband Toughness.

As for Force tree ..... no-damage one, for support purpose only (I can go to dps build with other tree). I plan to max Photon Flare, to increase healing power. Used mostly only when a boss-type mobs appeared though.

Thank you ^^

Edit : I tried to max Resta Advance and healing power because of those Kamikaze Squad -_- The aim is, with Deband Toughness and Deband Cut, those people didn't die in 1 hit, and I only need 1 tick of Resta to fully heal them.

Or .... any other input or build suggestion? ^^;

Rakurai
Aug 4, 2014, 11:10 PM
Resta Advance is kind of overkill with how quickly it heals with the tech customization.

Also, if you want to maximize your Zanverse damage, using the wands with the enemy specific damage increasing latents would be best.

final_attack
Aug 5, 2014, 12:03 AM
Oh, right, I forgot ..... My current resta is power custom one (already +87 power). Do you think I should raise Resta Advance again? I use power one, because I think I saw in JP Wiki, Power crafted one get higher bonus (in the term of total healing done, I think) ..... up to 122% for Hit +1, and up to 178% for power crafted one. Should I change to Hit +1?

Oh? Do you meant Windmill? If what you meant is Windmill, I listed Green Duel Gaze (same latent, right?). Is it different in term of bonus? :o

Edit :

Um, does it meant weapon should be Zanverse bonus? So, maxed Wind Mastery tree then? As for the other one .... should I max Shifta or Resta Advance? I'm open for another input too, of course ^^; Will put every info I can get, and then decide on the Full Support Tree.

Thank you ^^

Edit 2 :

Bought the Zanverse boost weapon (Wind Protection potential) .... now, maxed Shifta or Resta? :/

Achelousaurus
Aug 5, 2014, 04:08 AM
You're comparing two PAs for entirely different purposes. Slide End is supposed to be a huge AoE PA that does decent damage. Same with Assault Buster. Asagiri is a single target PA that will obviously do more damage: otherwise, balance-wise, it would make absolutely no sense to use that PA at all (like how it was prebuff). A "bit less reach and AoE" is a huge understatement

What would make partisan fall short of katana would be its inefficient, ineffective bossing capabilities due to OTHER PAs falling short. So in that regard, I will agree with you. But placing Assault Buster and Slide End into that is a grave mistake.

Your 2nd paragraph made no sense at all
A) Partizan has highly limited damage potential, the highest damage general purpose PAs I can think of (and which I was frequently told to use) Are Slide End and Assault Buster.
Besides Speed Rain (lol) what else can you use for damage that is high not just when you add the amount of enemies you hit?

B) It makes perfect sense.
I had heard people say something about mad Partizan damage with the right modifiers and was expecting that argument again, but the point is those are only modifiers.
neither do you always have access to them (especially not when playing solo, no ranger around, no shifta caster, etc) but also they only modify the base damage, which means anything with higher base damage will again be just as much stronger as before and thus completely invalidates the argument that modifiers can make something great.

Shinamori
Aug 5, 2014, 05:03 AM
Sacred Skewer + Vol Graptor makes a deadly combo.

Shiyo
Aug 5, 2014, 05:06 AM
Sacred Skewer + Vol Graptor makes a deadly combo.

Using a melee weapon at range is really boring, but yeah that's basically how you use Partizan right now. Boring as shit.

Achelousaurus
Aug 5, 2014, 09:04 AM
On a side note, does anyone know if Step Advance stacks for main + subclass?
Seeing as my dream hunter and Braver builds both got points over, +0.4 seconds invincibility during dashing would be the ultimate anti-lag defense (ok, ultimate would be ~10 seconds but this is really good already).

Sandmind
Aug 5, 2014, 10:48 AM
Yes. 3 on one and 2 on the other.

Achelousaurus
Aug 5, 2014, 11:22 AM
Sorry, 3 and 2 what?
Step Advance is 10 points, I don't know what you mean.

horseship
Aug 5, 2014, 11:34 AM
The step advance skills do stack, but the max amount of invulnerability time you can get from both is .2 seconds (the same as maxing one). Since the first points give more than the rest of the points, you can get the max time in two trees with only 5 skill points.

Kikikiki
Aug 5, 2014, 11:35 AM
Sorry, 3 and 2 what?
Step Advance is 10 points, I don't know what you mean.

Maximum step advance invincibility duration allowed is 0.20 sec, so if you put 3 points in Step Advance on one class, and 2 on another, they stack together to the maximum amount of 0.20 sec.

Rien
Aug 5, 2014, 11:37 AM
I'm trying to make an Fi/Bo build

but I have no idea what to give Fi anymore


can someone give me a little help please?

Shinamori
Aug 5, 2014, 11:43 AM
Link to your build?

KuroNeko77
Aug 5, 2014, 11:49 AM
I'm trying to make one as well, but I might change it depending on the Bo tree.

So far I've made this Fi build (http://pso2skillsimulator.com/fighter2/index.php?code=09000001010100000000031000000010101 000101000000500000000000000000000D), but I might go back to the chase skills instead of the slayers

Rien
Aug 5, 2014, 11:51 AM
http://pso2skillsimulator.com/fighter2/index.php?code=03000000000000000000031000000000101 000101000010500000000000000000200D

I don't do chase because it doesn't apply to bosses majority of the time

Achelousaurus
Aug 6, 2014, 03:21 AM
Thanks, I guess I have points over again.
Pity though, 0.4 seconds would be epic.

Also, Chase got change in Ep3. -15% damage but applies to bosses as well.

Shinamori
Aug 6, 2014, 04:06 AM
http://pso2skillsimulator.com/fighter2/index.php?code=03000000000000000000031000000000101 000101000010500000000000000000200D

I don't do chase because it doesn't apply to bosses majority of the time

Hmm, would you mind using the Beta (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php) build of the English one?

Anyway I'd probably go for something like this: 1/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdod BIbkAId00000000dodAfbndAboGKGKbKcA00000fdoib000000 6do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000f

UnLucky
Aug 6, 2014, 04:10 AM
Also, Chase got change in Ep3. -15% damage but applies to bosses as well.

Who said that?

Also the JP wiki says Step Advance doesn't stack, only the higher level takes effect. Still not sure who tested that or if it's even noticeable.

Achelousaurus
Aug 6, 2014, 06:16 AM
Been said in this or the other big ep 3 topic and comes from bumped or direct translation of the jp text.

UnLucky
Aug 6, 2014, 06:31 AM
This is the first I've ever heard anyone in the niconico broadcast/ep3 rebalance threads or Bumped mention anything about Chase working on bosses or being changed whatsoever besides the damage reduction.

I'd like to know where you saw that.

Like it'd be nice, and I'm sure people would want that, but I don't remember it being official.

Shiyo
Aug 6, 2014, 06:52 AM
Chase advanced didn't work on bosses even if you applied a status effect to them?

I thought it did.

Rien
Aug 6, 2014, 07:22 AM
Chase advanced didn't work on bosses even if you applied a status effect to them?

I thought it did.

Chase advance works on everything, but since bosses are not cannot be placed under status effects most of the time, it does not count towards chase advance.

Rien
Aug 6, 2014, 07:24 AM
Hmm, would you mind using the Beta (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php) build of the English one?

Anyway I'd probably go for something like this: 1/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdod BIbkAId00000000dodAfbndAboGKGKbKcA00000fdoib000000 6do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000f

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08InbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdo dBIb00000000jebIndnINfeAGKGKfHn00000fdoib0000006do 000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000f

Shiyo
Aug 6, 2014, 07:56 AM
Chase advance works on everything, but since bosses are not cannot be placed under status effects most of the time, it does not count towards chase advance.

Then what does this mean?

Also, Chase got change in Ep3. -15% damage but applies to bosses as well.
If it always worked on bosses that could be status effected, what exactly changed?

isCasted
Aug 6, 2014, 08:02 AM
If it always worked on bosses that could be status effected, what exactly changed?

Because most "special effects" on bosses that are triggered by stuff that triggers status effects are not classified as status effects.

You can use dark techs or weapons with "Poison" affix to poison Caterdransa, it will look just like poison on mobs and it will drain health. That's a status effect, and Chase Advance works. You can also use dark techs or weapons with "Poison" affix to "poison" Quartz Dragon, but it won't do anything that looks like usual poison - that's not a status effect and therefore Chase Advance doesn't work.

KuroNeko77
Aug 6, 2014, 08:26 AM
http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/beta/08/v1/skillcalc.php?08InbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0jdo dBIb00000000jebIndnINfeAGKGKfHn00000fdoib0000006do 000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000f

I'd suggest to at least take the 3 gear skills first.

Limit Break could be a good choice as well, but it's still too early to know if it's really worth the SP the skill costs.

Shiyo
Aug 6, 2014, 08:32 AM
Oh wow, so FI sub will be much stronger than HU sub for pure damage. HU sub will be insane survivability.

Also halfline boost is actually good now, +200% status effect chance when below 50% HP(limit break) is worth it now, wow.

Chase advanced plus is +15% so that makes up for chase advanced losing 15%, basically +40% damage to nearly every boss/enemy in the game.

Does Jellen proc chase advanced? RA/FI will be insane.

Achelousaurus
Aug 6, 2014, 08:56 AM
At the moment it apparently doesn't count.

UnLucky
Aug 6, 2014, 08:57 AM
Jellen does not proc Chase. Stun and Bind count, though.

And where the hell did "it now works on bosses" come from? Give me a link, someone!

Absolutely no boss can have an actual status effect that works with Chase in the game as of right now.

Certain minibosses are susceptible to one or more status effects, but immune to most others.

Achelousaurus
Aug 6, 2014, 10:59 AM
I meant in EP 3.
I forgot where but it was in one of those translations.
Probably Sizustar's or just on bumped.

Also, I just heard Step Advance must be maxed for full effect. Cause if you have it on 2 classes, simply the higher one will be used.
So if I have BR at 2skill points and Hu at 3 skill points, I will only get the invincibility amount of putting 3 skill points into it.

One thing I am wondering about though, why didn't Suganuma change the way stance critical skills work?
As a player he must know how useless they are now.

IndigoNovember
Aug 6, 2014, 11:47 AM
Not seeing Chase working on bosses mentioned in either of those sources.

Shiyo
Aug 6, 2014, 12:23 PM
I hope they modified the numbers on crit related skill, because yeah, they are pretty useless and cost far too many points.

I still think they need to remove the free auto-capped min damage from having a rare off weapons though, would make gearing a bit more interesting and crit actually useful.

GHNeko
Aug 6, 2014, 05:01 PM
I'd rather find a way to avoid more forced RNG in this waifu/rng simulator.

I'd rather skills added to classes that increase damage on critical like FI's critical strike.

Give them worth while multipliers for those willing to add more RNG to their damage output instead of forcing it on everyone by removing the hidden dex modifier.

And then!

Boost the attack values of crafted weapons. Have it so that a Fully Extended and Grinding weapon has around 200-400 more attack than the 11* (maybe even 12*) weapons, so that critical builds clearly have the highest damage output but still relies on RNG or a build that focuses strictly on raising crit rates for more consistent damage but allows essentially no room for flexibility.

UnLucky
Aug 6, 2014, 07:10 PM
Well they did increase Shifta Critical by 5%, but haven't heard anything about the other crit skills.

They really just need some kind of damage boost, either a 20-50% (preferably 100%) bonus or uncap Dex and minimum damage to start increasing max damage yet retain the variance.

GALEFORCE
Aug 6, 2014, 10:57 PM
Yeah, the best way to fix them would be to give crits a multiplier. I'd be fine with a 1.5x your top damage range for them. I mean, whether the crit multiplier is high (2x) or low (1.25x), they'd need to adjust the crit rate of certain things, like katana gear, to balance it out.

GHNeko
Aug 6, 2014, 11:43 PM
Crits should feel semi-consistent. Not to frequent to get used to, but not so rare that you're surprised by it.

Likely, damage should reflect it. Where the bonus is enough to make you notice and happy. Not too much or too little. 1.15x~1.25x would be legit with a 5-10% crit chance depending on the weapon.

Kondibon
Aug 6, 2014, 11:57 PM
Crits should feel semi-consistent. Not to frequent to get used to, but not so rare that you're surprised by it.

Likely, damage should reflect it. Where the bonus is enough to make you notice and happy. Not too much or too little. 1.15x~1.25x would be legit with a 5-10% crit chance depending on the weapon.
I'm pretty sure the base crit rate IS 5% It's actually REALLY noticable if you invest in any crit boosting skills. It's just... who does? The only one people regularly use is Katana Gear.

EDIT: My point is that crit rates are fine as is, there just needs to be a reason to go for them. I wouldn't mind some crit affixes or varying crit rates for weapons though.

GHNeko
Aug 7, 2014, 12:48 AM
Well i was speaking generally about crits and RPGs. Not that PSO2 doesnt have some or all of these aspects.

I agree with your point.

Kondibon
Aug 7, 2014, 12:56 AM
Well i was speaking generally about crits and RPGs. Not that PSO2 doesnt have some or all of these aspects.

I agree with your point.
Fair enough. A lot of games run into issues with crits. Either you get something like GW2 where it's entirely possible (and feasable) to get a 100% crit rate and 3x crit damage and that becomes the meta, or you end up with games like PSO2 where no one gives a crap about crits.

I personally liked Mabi's crit system the most. There's a soft cap on your effective crit rate at around 30% but it's possible to go over that. The reason for this is that the protection stat on enemies reduces your crit rate by 2% for every one percent of protection. This means that there's a reason to get a high crit rate, to get more than the 30% crit for stonger enemies, but doesn't result in the lolonehundredpercentcritrate nonsense that a lot of other games have.

I can't think of a way for that to translate into PSO2 though since the game is pretty linear and there aren't as many ways to increase your crit rate in the first place (also, crits don't do 2.5x damage solol).

UnLucky
Aug 7, 2014, 01:07 AM
A 10SP skill for +20% crit rate isn't worth it unless a crit means at least +50% damage. And that's only to break even with a +10% damage skill, but it's still better to take the consistent bonus since if you don't crit at least once on every single enemy then you lose DPS. Plus it doesn't really help if you crit the same trash mob multiple times in a row since the one PA would likely have killed it regardless.

Simply multiply the proc rate by the damage bonus to get your average. 100% chance to do +10% damage = 10%. Likewise, a 10% chance to do +100% damage = 10%.

55% chance to do +0% damage = 0% average
15% chance to do +15% damage = 2.25% average
30% chance to do +50% damage = 15% average

Two of those examples are in the game right now. One costs 30SP across three skill trees (10 each) and the other is 5SP. The last one doesn't exist, but I'd price it at 10SP if I had any say in the matter.

Kondibon
Aug 7, 2014, 01:44 AM
There's other ways to add value to crit that I think they could take advantage of as well. Crit procs are an interesting way to make use of crits besides raw damage multipliers. Some examples from GW2 (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil#Chance_on_critical_hit)

The biggest problem I see is that there's already ways to apply status effects that don't rely on crits, and enemies don't buff them selves often, so you're left with self buffs (lolshiftaoncrits) and life drain on crits. Given how hard it is to get a high crit rate on PSO2 though I think we'd some stuff a bit more interesting than that or with 100% proc rates.

Achelousaurus
Aug 7, 2014, 07:11 AM
I hope they modified the numbers on crit related skill, because yeah, they are pretty useless and cost far too many points.

I still think they need to remove the free auto-capped min damage from having a rare off weapons though, would make gearing a bit more interesting and crit actually useful.
Whyever would anyone want that?
Make all weapons weaker just so some useless skills are useful but since they are still weak, damage will decrease considerably.

Weapon damage variance is fine, the critical skills should simply do what are are promising, raise your chance to score a real critical hit, doing 150% or whatever damage.

And yeah, addition skills to increase crit damage (Diablo 3 is big on that well, gear modifying crit chance and damage) would be cool.


Crits should feel semi-consistent. Not to frequent to get used to, but not so rare that you're surprised by it.

Likely, damage should reflect it. Where the bonus is enough to make you notice and happy. Not too much or too little. 1.15x~1.25x would be legit with a 5-10% crit chance depending on the weapon.
I liked luck in PSOBB, 100 luck meant 50% critical rate for reliability and a big damage boost.

Rayden
Aug 7, 2014, 10:44 AM
Also halfline boost is actually good now, +200% status effect chance when below 50% HP(limit break) is worth it now, wow.

What? When did they say they're changing Half Line Boost to be +200% status effect chance? That'd be crazy high. I haven't heard of them making any change to this skill.


Chase advanced plus is +15% so that makes up for chase advanced losing 15%, basically +40% damage to nearly every boss/enemy in the game.

What? Chase Advance Plus has always been +15% damage, so it doesn't make up for any loss.

IndigoNovember
Aug 7, 2014, 10:50 AM
What? When did they say they're changing Half Line Boost to be +200% status effect chance? That'd be crazy high. I haven't heard of them making any change to this skill.

Actually, Half Line Boost has always been a x2 proc rate at level 5.

Zyrusticae
Aug 7, 2014, 11:02 AM
A 10SP skill for +20% crit rate isn't worth it unless a crit means at least +50% damage. And that's only to break even with a +10% damage skill, but it's still better to take the consistent bonus since if you don't crit at least once on every single enemy then you lose DPS. Plus it doesn't really help if you crit the same trash mob multiple times in a row since the one PA would likely have killed it regardless.

Simply multiply the proc rate by the damage bonus to get your average. 100% chance to do +10% damage = 10%. Likewise, a 10% chance to do +100% damage = 10%.

55% chance to do +0% damage = 0% average
15% chance to do +15% damage = 2.25% average
30% chance to do +50% damage = 15% average

Two of those examples are in the game right now. One costs 30SP across three skill trees (10 each) and the other is 5SP. The last one doesn't exist, but I'd price it at 10SP if I had any say in the matter.
You could do something like this:

One +crit skill, caps out at +50% chance for 10 SP, with base crit chance at 10%. Crit damage also starts at +10% and you can get skills to increase it by 25%, 2.5% per SP, capping out at +60% crit damage. It starts out weaker than regular damage boosts but ends up superior due to synergistic effects. It's also still somewhat random and, given the nature of the RNG, is going to be subject to more randomness than just flat bonuses. You exchange the randomness for more raw damage averaged out over time and spikes of damage in the short-term.

Could also tie crit chance and crit damage to specific weapons and weapon types, adding it as another stat that can potentially be increased by grinding or affixing.

But then again, given how poorly SEGA has done with the normal, static damage boosts, I'm not sure they could handle that much power...

Rayden
Aug 7, 2014, 12:15 PM
Actually, Half Line Boost has always been a x2 proc rate at level 5.

Yeah, I know that. Shiyo's post made that it sound as though they're changing it to a 3x multiplier (that's what +200% is).

IndigoNovember
Aug 7, 2014, 12:45 PM
Yeah, I know that. Shiyo's post made that it sound as though they're changing it to a 3x multiplier (that's what +200% is).

Ah, yeah, my bad. I guess I just internally filtered out the typo.

Macmaxi
Aug 10, 2014, 07:19 AM
I read something about Guard Stance losing the damage penatly? If that is true, what does that mean for the defensive stance potential? I would suggest they had to change it as well.

UnLucky
Aug 10, 2014, 09:58 AM
What? The potential never had a damage penalty. Although they did update it at one point to actually increase damage.

Of course, it still requires Guard Stance so it's far from optimal, but at least it kind of bridges the gap a smidge.

The Walrus
Aug 10, 2014, 12:22 PM
You'll end up with 25% less damage (Guard Stance will be 151% total and Fury is 176% assuming my math isn't derped) than Fury Stance when EP3 hits. You lose like 100 base atk or so compared to better weapons cause of what the potential is on but eh.

Macmaxi
Aug 10, 2014, 02:54 PM
What? The potential never had a damage penalty. Although they did update it at one point to actually increase damage.

Of course, it still requires Guard Stance so it's far from optimal, but at least it kind of bridges the gap a smidge.


Yeah, i actually meant that if Guard Stance (the skill) loses it's damage penalty, defensive stance (the potential) gets more relevance.