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fay
Jul 29, 2014, 05:31 AM
Going via past updates, a new difficulty seems to come out with, or not long after each update like this. I'm expecting a new one to appear. I remember a month or two ago someone was data-mining the files and found code along the lines of 'ForestUltimate' and enemies called OodanUltimate.
Now I'm thinking if this is reference to ultimate being the next difficulty we get, and if so, then I can see it being here with EP3 or not long after it. Starting to get hyped.

Manakura
Jul 29, 2014, 06:25 AM
interesting, sounds like a difficulty that will be like level 70 required as a minimum. If this is a new difficulty i look forward to running it with my team :)

Cool info

SakoHaruo
Jul 29, 2014, 06:59 AM
Bah, nothing will actually get harder. It's just enemies with higher HP and level.

Sanguine2009
Jul 29, 2014, 07:05 AM
Bah, nothing will actually get harder. It's just enemies with higher HP and level.

and people with even worse suited equipment, cant forget the people that refuse to upgrade from +3 red weapons

suzaku0zero0
Jul 29, 2014, 07:05 AM
Who knows, monsters might have a new attack pattern. Oodans might fire off deadly farts

Ordy
Jul 29, 2014, 07:08 AM
The PSO1 Normal > Hard > Very Hard difficulties were pretty linear, just more HP and def like on PSO2. But Ultimate on Lv.80 felt like a slap in the face, with a brick. Mobs were fast and brutal, like rapists.

I hope I'll finally start to get my ass kicked in that new mode.

Lostbob117
Jul 29, 2014, 07:11 AM
According to the person who actually datamined those, if I remember correctly. There is not enough ultimate stuff yet to say when it'll be.

We'll have to wait and see though, my personal guess is it'll be out next year.

SakoHaruo
Jul 29, 2014, 07:11 AM
and people with even worse suited equipment, cant forget the people that refuse to upgrade from +3 red weapons

Hey now, I used a 1k shop +0 Talis during EQ (as Fighter) so I cauld spam Zondeel TB. I'm going to use it again during Beckoning/Reckoning/WTF in the next hour. o3o

Stealthcmc1974
Jul 29, 2014, 07:26 AM
I want smart mobs, not ones that are on steroids. Fat chance of that happening though. Thins is, if they add Ultimate, where do they go from there in terms of difficulty? What would come after Ultimate?

Xaelouse
Jul 29, 2014, 07:36 AM
It's not hard to come up with other difficulties after Ultimate
The 15 stars gotta drop somewhere, and it wont be the next difficulty for sure

oratank
Jul 29, 2014, 07:40 AM
with map design like pso2 ultimate mob will not brutal like pso1. cause they can't conner you and rape shit

the biggest strength of ultimate mob i hate it was the superarmor shit. if you don't have enough dmg they won't knock back

fay
Jul 29, 2014, 07:45 AM
The PSO1 Normal > Hard > Very Hard difficulties were pretty linear, just more HP and def like on PSO2. But Ultimate on Lv.80 felt like a slap in the face, with a brick. Mobs were fast and brutal, like rapists.

I hope I'll finally start to get my ass kicked in that new mode.

I can't decide what I thought was more scary in Ultimate. Seeing Bartles in the forest for the first time or seeing one of those del sabers absolutely raping me. Saying that. I remember the mines boss on Ultimate took so fucking long to beat. You literally had to level up so much just to take a hit.

Sanguine2009
Jul 29, 2014, 07:53 AM
I can't decide what I thought was more scary in Ultimate. Seeing Bartles in the forest for the first time or seeing one of those del sabers absolutely raping me. Saying that. I remember the mines boss on Ultimate took so fucking long to beat. You literally had to level up so much just to take a hit.

megid flowers everywhere

fay
Jul 29, 2014, 07:57 AM
Oh gawd. The first time I saw one of those rare megid flowers I was like yaaas, rare enemy. Wonder what it will drop me!
Megid flower shoots a megid at what felt like the speed of light and died instantly. Goodbye megid flower. Was nice seeing you.
This also happened the first time I saw a hildtorr, sadly.

Scale of Judgment
Jul 29, 2014, 08:16 AM
Maybe mobs can photon blast now

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 08:36 AM
Enemies can be infected...twice..

Imagine the Darker Eye and Darker Beak.

Shoots orbs at you that absorb HP.

That'd actually be pretty cool.

They should also kill all the infection element weaknesses and make it not-a-weakspot.

Darker Infections just scream Zelda-Boss Syndrome.

landman
Jul 29, 2014, 09:06 AM
Let's hope that Oodan Ultimate is an almost complete Darker infection resembling what previously was a Wodan. If that is how it actually works with Darkers...

Achelousaurus
Jul 29, 2014, 10:29 AM
No, Oodan needs to become Hildebear pso2 version.
Za Oodan will become Hildetorr.

But tbh all I want from ult are big stats, I'd rather have lots entirely new areas with entirely new enemies than simply variations of existing ones.

HeyItsTHK
Jul 29, 2014, 10:43 AM
Ultimate Difficulty.

Emergency Code: Explosion happens everywhere and frequently. And even during boss fights.

Gama
Jul 29, 2014, 12:10 PM
The PSO1 Normal > Hard > Very Hard difficulties were pretty linear, just more HP and def like on PSO2. But Ultimate on Lv.80 felt like a slap in the face, with a brick. Mobs were fast and brutal, like rapists.

I hope I'll finally start to get my ass kicked in that new mode.

i remember this.

on v2 Ultimate was RAPE.

the only thing that damaged barbles when i got there was hucast traps, my melle did like 30 dmg, because you needed weapons strong agains each monster type to do damage. it was brutal, also their speed and inteligence... god.

after 1 hour on ult, VH felt like slow mo.

LonelyGaruga
Jul 29, 2014, 12:45 PM
Enemies can be infected...twice..

Imagine the Darker Eye and Darker Beak.

Shoots orbs at you that absorb HP.

That'd actually be pretty cool.

Infection cores already work like that in SH. They still have the three different levels of infections like N-VH, the appearances just aren't as obvious. Level 2 infections glow a little, and level 3 infections have a unique appearance resembling a thorny mass. Level 2 infections have two effects at once, while level 3 infections have three. Seems they fire more projectiles as well, most level 3 infections I've seen fire three of the cannonball-like projectiles and two of the other projectile in quick succession (combined with health absorb, naturally).

branflakes325
Jul 29, 2014, 01:35 PM
Regardless of how its done, I'm really hoping for a huge jump in difficulty if/when we get Ultimate. Despair gives me high hopes for this, considering how it's a significant jump in difficulty from Invasion and Intrusion.

Right now everything seems to be a race against the clock. I want it to be more about survival and thinking about your attack plan before executing it. PSO had this, but I know PSO2 can do it better.

Cyber Meteor
Jul 29, 2014, 03:55 PM
What I'm really hoping for this Ultimate mode is a reskin of the levels (at least until Sanctum), that would be really cool, nothing else coming to my mind currently.

Fatalystic
Jul 29, 2014, 08:13 PM
Hmm...considering the storyline's all about time travel and stuff...

How about having Ultimate be a "Bad Future" version of the stages where the Darkers have taken over all the planets and ARKS is just barely managing to avoid getting wiped out entirely? That can be the excuse for reskinning the stages and stuff.

Shiyo
Jul 29, 2014, 09:32 PM
Bah, nothing will actually get harder. It's just enemies with higher HP and level.

SH is much, much more difficult than any other difficulty, especially the pathetic difficulty known as "Very hard" that was balanced around subjobs not existing(LOL).

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 10:01 PM
SH isnt harder perdsay, you just dont have much leisure room.

Enemies move fast and attack often, but their patterns and attack speeds havnt changed.

They hit harder obv, but its because you cant dilly dally like you can in easier difficulties.

If you do, you get stunlocked and die.

I think the only aspects about SH that are harder are the bosses that have better patterns and high infection frequency as well as fullblown infections.

Kondibon
Jul 29, 2014, 10:06 PM
Enemies move fast and attack often, but their patterns and attack speeds havnt changed.
I was about to correct you, but I realized you're just talking about normal enemies.

There's nothing saying they can't change that in Ultimate or whatever it ends up being called, like they did for bosses in SH.

Dark Emerald EXE
Jul 29, 2014, 10:11 PM
Did someone say mobs that actually use technics?

*raises hand*

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 10:14 PM
I was about to correct you, but I realized you're just talking about normal enemies.

There's nothing saying they can't change that in Ultimate or whatever it ends up being called, like they did for bosses in SH.



Yeah that's completely true. With the new director, its entirely possible.

The biggest improvement to enemies that could be made is to attack speed.

If the fuckers attack like 100-200% faster, that would speed up the game's pace considerably as well as forcefully notch up it's difficulty.


Did someone say mobs that actually use technics?

*raises hand*

Yo that would be so hype. The new darkers in shit like quarry and seabed that imitate PAs are the coolest.

Dark Matter
Jul 29, 2014, 10:37 PM
Id like a difficulty with a subclass level requirement
Or
a new game type where the monsters adapt to make a harder difficulty for the player.

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 10:48 PM
An adaptive difficulty? Where the enemies that kill you show up more frequently, and the enemies that you kill in quick succession show up less frequently?

That sounds nuts.

Dark Matter
Jul 29, 2014, 10:53 PM
Also giving monsters the ability to dodge and others to block instead of standing and getting hit like a straw dummy.

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 10:55 PM
Nonsense and Poppycock.

No one would want anything like that.

strikerhunter
Jul 29, 2014, 10:56 PM
I would, it would also more reason for Fighters to invest more into Wise Stance and more challenge.

Stealthcmc1974
Jul 29, 2014, 11:00 PM
More enemies like this, that can dodge and block. Maybe give them some PAs while you're at it.

Dark Matter
Jul 29, 2014, 11:52 PM
Id still want it

[SPOILER-BOX]http://bumped.org/psublog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/enemy_ss_01.jpg

Using orchestra the twin dagger pa
[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://bafundaba.up.seesaa.net/image/PSO2E382A8E3838DE3839FE383BCE59BB3E99191E38080E382 ABE383ABE382BFE383BCE382B4.jpg

The ability to use a nerfed version of il megid
[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://image.swiki.jp/img1/?host=pso2&page=%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8A %E3%83%BC%E3%83%80&src=%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AD%E3%83%8A% E3%83%BC%E3%83%80.jpg

Using the gunslash Pa Aiming Shot or a much more horrifying thought of giving it Regenschlag[/SPOILER-BOX]

GHNeko
Jul 29, 2014, 11:57 PM
Let's just bring back Del Lillies and call it a day.

gigawuts
Jul 30, 2014, 12:00 AM
Let's just bring back Del Lillies and call it a day.

sure, let me find my resist/devils

wait where are my resist/devils

fuck

fine, iron will it is

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 12:05 AM
sure, let me find my resist/devils

wait where are my resist/devils

fuck

fine, iron will it is

http://i.imgur.com/jmN8Mul.gif

Real Talk tho. Insta death techs would be a frustrating, very stupid, but very welcome addition.

cheapgunner
Jul 30, 2014, 12:06 AM
Take borderlands difficulty spike curve and apply it to SH. Now Quartz is spamming light missiles every 5 sec and Vol Dragon Foie the same. 12 MPA facing off against Bosses buffed with like 12-15x the normal health and 200% movement and attack speed. All darker striking, ranged and technic attacks have incapacitation built in.

Enjoy. :[]

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 12:14 AM
Well there is difficulty and there is challenge.

And then there is Lunatic++.

You sir have gone Lunatic+++++.

I think what would constitute as challenging in PSO2 would be sporadic patterns and minimal to no down time.

If you have no time to catch your breath and things are CUHRAZEE from the start with little to no reprieve outside of death, then it can take a few minutes of combat and make it feel like eternity.

That's one of the feelings I got with PSO on Ult.

Niggas didnt give you a fucking break especially when you were getting evade-locked but 1 out of 10 hits got through and you couldnt do shit about it.

SO if you saw them coming at you at the speed of sound and dying was a real possibility, you didnt feel good about that and you would preemptively get the fuck out of there.

gigawuts
Jul 30, 2014, 12:17 AM
For me Ult was all about stacking ATA and pressing the A+X+X buttons for longer, while staring at the same maps in different colors.

Which, don't get me wrong, was totally great. It's just...it was an easy hurdle to jump if you approached it right.

At least, on the GC version. DC was apparently literally Auschwitz.

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 12:25 AM
Yeah. PSO2 has the potential to make you panic, which is why I enjoy SH enemies. They get on my nerves because they dont give me many breaks, so if I'm about to die, I actually feel a sense of panic...y...annoyance?

Yeah. Panicyannoyance.

The stunlocks I wish would go because I feel its a cheap way to create artificial difficulty. If the enemy patterns were sporadic enough and they didnt have such obvious attack calls and openings, you wouldnt need stunlock to punish a player for sitting in the same place for too long, no?

Achelousaurus
Jul 30, 2014, 03:50 AM
Ultimate Difficulty.

Emergency Code: Explosion happens everywhere and frequently. And even during boss fights.
Whaaa???
Explosion is the single most annoying ET there is, a lot worse than even Gel Wulffs.
Stuff explodes all around you, the screen is entirely tinged red and you get hit from every direction at once.
Makes boss fights unfeasible.


An adaptive difficulty? Where the enemies that kill you show up more frequently, and the enemies that you kill in quick succession show up less frequently?

That sounds nuts.
In a way that sounds very nice.
Get a rare enemy to spawn, die to it 50 times on purpose, now you tripled it's appearance rate XD.

TBH the problem isn't enemy ai or patterns but player damage. This is like endgame PSOBB but already at lvl 70.
Player damage is so high stuff dies instantly.
Then again, you cannot raise stats too high cause of randoms.
My own damage isn't huge but I do just fine in a decent party. But you only get to kill stuff rapidly when people know what to do, not spam Ilmegid / Satellite Cannon / Shunka all day long and nothing else, but sadly 90% of the people I play with on b10-12 are like this nowadays.
I fear all the good players cannot login anymore >_>

TBH I want SEGA to nerf damage modifiers, so that you can no longer get 4.7 million damage or anything other outrageous.
Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoy Speed Star Online 2 but only to a certain amount.
And if you lower modifiers so everyone still needs a couple of minutes for bosses, it's still quite fast (hell, in other morpgs some bosses take hours with skilled players and endgame gear) but also still accessible for people with less damage.
This way you don#t get the problem of having to raise enemy HP to absurd amounts so people with high damage have some challenge while people with lower damage take hours to kill a single Bartle.

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 04:22 AM
Well there are quite a few multipliers getting nerfed so....

fay
Jul 30, 2014, 05:07 AM
Didn't someone mention in the other thread that we're only getting this mass amount of balance updates because someone else is in charge of it? Maybe he will be in charge of balancing the new difficulty. Maybe it will actually be challenging.
I just long to be in that room with a sinow zele and two sinow ? (blue guys). That room was my most scared room ever. I felt like I was always going to die unless I resorted to cheap tactics.

ArataWata
Jul 30, 2014, 07:19 AM
They should call it Super Duper Mode.

Achelousaurus
Jul 30, 2014, 10:45 AM
Fury Stance, Gunner and Ilmegid/Ilbarta/Ilgrants get a nerf but not remotely as much as I was talking about.

Well, the problem is probably not even the individual multipliers but the point that you can stack them all without limit for absurdness.

Achelousaurus
Jul 30, 2014, 11:14 AM
I haven't done much foing, so this is mostly theoretical but I agree with the lowered damage per additional target.
Could add a timer so that if you stuff at the same time cause of Zondeel it still counts as 1 target.
And aggro generations needs to get lowered.

I'd rather have a tech useful for certain situations that something to spam all day.
It's far more fun if you have a great variety of techs that work differently rather than stuff that mostly does the same and only differs in terms of damage and pp cost.

Also, Shunka is just fine the way it is. It still has the best damage potential but that is perfectly fine considering it's rather slow and you can't counter during swings.
It's not even nearly so strong anymore that you wouldn't use other PAs instead. I only use shunka when I got plenty time and need big time (like when Gwanahda exposes it's belly.
Shunka is now already a good PA to use in certain situations, any more nerfs and it would be weak and pointless.

I really hope Tsukimi and Gekka get damage boosts or pp cost reduction.
The combo is very fun to use but horribly, horribly pp inefficient.
Together they do about the same damage as one Asagiri, but for nearly twice the cost.

Xaelouse
Jul 30, 2014, 11:18 AM
Ult was all about that forest at sunset
and I will be disappointed if it's not the same when it releases ; ;

Mystil
Jul 30, 2014, 11:33 AM
DC was apparently literally Auschwitz.

The only thing poor about that version was the lobbies.

Meji
Jul 30, 2014, 11:36 AM
Ult was all about that forest at sunset
and I will be disappointed if it's not the same when it releases ; ;
Quoting for truth. The first time I set foot in the Ultimate Forest with its new setting, my jaw dropped.

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 11:36 AM
Also, Shunka is just fine the way it is. It still has the best damage potential but that is perfectly fine considering it's rather slow and you can't counter during swings.
It's not even nearly so strong anymore that you wouldn't use other PAs instead. I only use shunka when I got plenty time and need big time (like when Gwanahda exposes it's belly.
Shunka is now already a good PA to use in certain situations, any more nerfs and it would be weak and pointless.

I really hope Tsukimi and Gekka get damage boosts or pp cost reduction.
The combo is very fun to use but horribly, horribly pp inefficient.
Together they do about the same damage as one Asagiri, but for nearly twice the cost.

But you have until the final swing to dodge...Shunka has astronomically large windows for dodging (and therefor some form of defense).

Shunka is also still the best PP efficent PA out there.

Taking out Super Armor doesnt make it weak and pointless. It just makes it so that you can't be careless with it.

Because you can be JUST as careless as you could be Day 1, but you just get less of a reward from it now, but it's still a really good reward.

Also, Gekka is incredibly PP efficient lol.

But maybe I'm saying this because I have like 5 different methods of keeping my PP Regen extremely high.

What they really should buff is Fudou.

fay
Jul 30, 2014, 03:30 PM
Quoting for truth. The first time I set foot in the Ultimate Forest with its new setting, my jaw dropped.

And then you got to the dragon which turned out to be ice with an ice area. Looked gooood.
Actually, I put the surprised off seeing different enemies and general aesthetics in ultimate mode as being one of the best surprised in video game history purely out of shock factor. You do 3 difficulties and are pretty use to how it is. You don't expect anything and it's like you land in a new world.

Achelousaurus
Jul 31, 2014, 03:25 AM
Gekka is very inefficient if you don't have astronomical amounts of pp.
It's just too weak and dat upward jump if you aren't already in air is too stupid.

GHNeko
Jul 31, 2014, 10:58 AM
You shouldn't be using Gekka on the ground anyways.

And isnt like 160-180 what most BRs are supposed to have at some point during endgame?

Or maybe I just value PP too much? Sitting on 141 without drinks but I have pp restraint 10 for 1.4x regen so that effective PP is higher during Gekka spam because i get more PP back when i jump and attack for JA Gekka.

SakoHaruo
Jul 31, 2014, 11:39 AM
If you need 180pp to kill as Braver, you're doing it wrong. But yeah, pp drink I can understand.

DJcooltrainer
Jul 31, 2014, 11:48 AM
I'd say 180 is way more than enough, I can deal with the 120-130 range perfectly fine, but I also like having lotsa HP.