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the_importer_
Jul 30, 2014, 10:39 AM
I've only been playing since April of this year, so counting the DDOS downtime and the extra week before I was able to reconnect, I've logged well over 400 hours in. I can personally say that, as a bit of a completionist, that PSO2 is one of the better games I've played in my life. Is it the best, of course not, but for now, I'm pretty much just playing this.

As for a F2P game, IMPO, SEGA as found the perfect balance between the free aspect and the micro transactions aspect. I wasn't force to expand my item slots, I just wanted to in order to grab everything I could to sale for cash. I wasn't forced to buy a new Mag, I just screwed up my first one. I wasn't forced to get premium, I just wanted to have multiple client orders in order to complete them faster.

It's still amazes me that such a large game is technically free and yet, they still make so much money out of it.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 10:48 AM
no
/5char

The Walrus
Jul 30, 2014, 10:48 AM
Not even close. Pretty average tbh.

TaigaUC
Jul 30, 2014, 10:52 AM
No, far from it. It has a lot of nice little features that other games should have, but SEGA's habit of screwing everything in some way leaves a lot to be desired.

The ironic thing is it's clear they didn't want to stray too far from the original PSO, yet the game lacks many things that people loved about PSO1.
It's not just me that's saying that either. I know some JP people who feel that way too.
SEGA kinda picked the wrong things to leave alone and/or change.

So... it's not really bad, but it's not really great either.
It would've been great if they didn't keep seemingly intentionally dropping the ball.

isCasted
Jul 30, 2014, 10:54 AM
In terms of quality - no, in terms of satisfaction - absolutely.

gigawuts
Jul 30, 2014, 10:54 AM
The game would be better if Sega ever learned from past mistakes.

Seriously they made the exact same mistakes with PSO1, PSU, PSP, and PSO2.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 10:59 AM
I feel I owe to you to elaborate. If we narrow it down to F2P online games then I think PSO2 is one of the few that's actually fun to play at face value. It's just that the things the game does wrong it does REALLY wrong. The whole equipment upgrade system is dated and anti-fun, features that are general free to some degree aren't in PSO2. Namely trading and buying 10*+ weapons (everyone should be able to or no one should be able to). There's an emphesis on builds but it's stuck behind a money gate, making expirimenting a chore. There are pleny of ways for them to monetize skill trees without completely barring changing them behind money or inconsistant skill tree updates.


The game would be better if Sega ever learned from past mistakes.

Seriously they made the exact same mistakes with PSO1, PSU, PSP, and PSO2.
This is part of the reason I still stick around. They ARE improving the game slowly, and it would be pretty silly of me to not at least give them the benifit of the doubt when I play Mabinogi of all things.

Sanguine2009
Jul 30, 2014, 11:01 AM
hahahahaha no, not even close. it is the best mmo-style game i have played but thats not a very high bar (at least out of the ones that are still going on non private servers)

GHNeko
Jul 30, 2014, 11:50 AM
Compared to other games?

Not at all.

Within the MMO Genre? Yeah it is. But I havnt played many MMOs.

I love PSO2. It's a very fun game.

But christ does this game have issues.

the_importer_
Jul 30, 2014, 12:02 PM
I see a lot of complaints but not too many details. Like I said, I've been playing since April, so I may have yet to see everything this game has to offer (I did however finish every Ark and Field quests on Normal and Hard).

Can you guys list what you actually hate about the game, besides the fact that somethings require money to buy?

Gaylar
Jul 30, 2014, 12:02 PM
One of the best games I've played? No. Not by a longshot.

One of the best MMOs I've played? Probably; most subscription-based MMOs nowadays turn out to be overhyped garbage from my perspective. Much as I do like FF14, it is a LITERAL WoW-clone game, and PSO2's gameplay feels a lot more satisfying (that said, PSO2's story doesnt hold a candle to FF14's)

One of the best free-to-play MMO's I've played? Yes. If not the best. Nearly every other F2P MMO out there is complete and utter shit; despite PSO2's restrictions for free users its still far more accessible than literally every other F2P on the market, I started playing about a month or so before subclassing came out and didn't spend a dime on the game until about 2~3 months ago and never once did I feel like the game was dicking me over harder than someone else just because I wasn't shelling out cash.

PSO2 is without a doubt the best free MMO I've played, and compared to other f2ps its actually far more accessible and reasonable to play, there really is no extreme "I need this to fucking play", at least not compared to games like ACE Online/Maplestory, you know, shit where you have to shell out fucking thousands of dollars just to get anywhere in the damn game.


All that being said- the game is still run like shit. For example, there's no excuse for the shit hackers can do to other people and NPCs, shit like that should've been patched a long time ago.
Look at it this way- I'm saying one pile of shit is less of a pile of shit than other piles of shit.

Edson Drake
Jul 30, 2014, 12:05 PM
I'd say no, but it's very fun. I'd put all of the earlier PS games much higher overall.

Daiyousei
Jul 30, 2014, 12:06 PM
In the MMO genre, it definitely is one that I can stay with playing for a long time. I think a big factor is that I have a lot of friends who also play.

In other games like Vindictus, I played to a point where it became impossible to finish my quests due to farming oriented parties, stray any different from what they want to do and I get instakicked. I'm a semi-casual player, Vindictus has only two kinds of people, casual and hardcore, and the level rift between the two is huge. Casual players get left behind, while hardcore players are all max level and stuff. I'm stuck in the middle levels, I cannot find any parties to do my quests, so I'm stuck soloing them, and I quit as a result because I shouldn't be playing an MMO alone.

Edit: before I quit Vindictus, my guild leader had transferred leadership to someone else and quit herself, and the new leader also quit sometime between when I quit and when I rechecked the game for Vella. The guild was pretty much a shadow of its former self by then.

Meanwhile in PSO2, even if my friends aren't on, I can enjoy MPAs solo, even if I don't interact with the players in there.

And as someone who enjoys the plot of games, I really like how PSO2 separates story from gameplay. You see in FFXIV where dungeons are a requirement to the story, and if you get stuck in a party who only wants to speedrun it, good luck not getting kicked or lashed out at if you don't skip the cutscene. People tell you to skip cutscenes and watch it later at the event chronicle (which PSO2 also implemented recently), but I feel that ruins the progression feel for me, especially if it takes me running through the story quest to get to the cutscenes.

Edit: I'm also not a fan of the traditional MMO playstyle, I get no fun just standing in spot and take hits as tank, or go through a series of button presses and usually standing in spot as DPS, and then moving to next target. I want to actively dodge, actively block, actively move around, to make me feel like I'm actually playing something.

P.S. Player since open beta.

un1t27
Jul 30, 2014, 12:15 PM
Nope...

wefwq
Jul 30, 2014, 12:48 PM
PSO2 is one of the best MOARPG from the gameplay alone IMO.
It's really hard to find good action RPG for PC.

Also it's a plus that they still improve the game every now and then, making some aspect even better along with constant content update, keeping us players interested.

PSO2 is one of the greatest game i ever played.

Demon-
Jul 30, 2014, 12:49 PM
Would you say that PSO2 is one of the best game you've ever played?

No.

I'd say it's one of the best MMOs I've ever played.

isCasted
Jul 30, 2014, 12:54 PM
Can you guys list what you actually hate about the game, besides the fact that somethings require money to buy?

Hitboxes, clipping, balance (going to be fixed in future updates), ticket system (you will be able to preview after future updates, but those will still cost millions and vanish from market over time), one-piece-only costumes, no way to avoid noobs/hackers/retards in random MPAs, best content is locked behind EQ or other random, random drops, random grinding, random RANDOM RANDOM...

But I still love it because of fun combat, simple economics and dress-up.

Zyrusticae
Jul 30, 2014, 12:56 PM
So I guess I'll answer this seriously.

In terms of action games? Hell no. It's nowhere near the level of dedicated character action games like Metal Gear Rising or Bayonetta, even though it very clearly aspires to be in several obvious ways. The combo system is simply too restrictive, and they don't give you enough incentive to try to vary things up (though that may change for FI at least with the new combo skill).

In terms of online role playing games (including massively multiplayer ones)? It's... above average. Even with the upcoming balance changes (which are very nice and long overdue), the game still has noticeably low-budget visuals aiming for the lowest common denominator of hardware. As a graphics whore (for lack of a better term), this does not sit well with me. It's also unfortunate that the prefabricated nature of the various level blocks becomes extremely apparent very quickly, and the game environment loses much of its sense of wonder and mystery because of it.

I do appreciate things like the large collection of emotes, the constantly expanding wardrobe, the symbol art, the cut-in chat, and so on and so forth. And of course, the character creation is undeniably top-tier (though I will still dock a point or two for not letting me go all the way flat as well as the inability to make shotas). The story's been picking up nicely as well, but I can only understand so much of it without translation, heh.

The thing is, FFXIV does a lot of things better - just not necessarily the core combat mechanics. Strange point of comparison, perhaps, given that one is lobby-based and the other is open-world with instanced dungeons, but the fact remains that I simply enjoy my time with FFXIV more than I do with PSO2. In PSO2 I actually have a tendancy to zone out during MPA runs; in FFXIV I actually have to pay attention to the mechanics of the fight, which is ironic given that one is supposed to be more action-based than the other.

And then there's Blade & Soul. I've said it before, but I would really be playing no other game right now if I could just play it without the awful foreigner latency ruining things. Such a well-constructed game, it's absolutely criminal that NCSoft has delayed it in the West while focusing on the rehash that is Wildstar. But I digress.

I can appreciate the things that SEGA tried to do with this game, but their execution simply leaves too much to be desired. I look forward to seeing how the game changes with Episode 3, but I admit, I am not entirely too optimistic that balance changes alone will revitalize the game for me. Time will tell.

Skyly
Jul 30, 2014, 01:04 PM
PSO2 is overall a good game. Lots of content, semi-repetitive gameplay :(, the action aspect of the game is awesome, shops are good, yeah the whole binding thing blows but oh well, class customization, umm affixing should be easier (not by much but make it easier for casual payers to make better gear)

starwind75043
Jul 30, 2014, 01:30 PM
nope not even close to one of the best games i ever played. Which was probly why if they ever really decided to get rid of the gajin i wont have a problem moving on. With that said i do have fun playing it and want to continue playing how ever long it stays around.

Vampy
Jul 30, 2014, 01:32 PM
Hell no not even close in any aspect. My personal best is monster hunter in it's.entirety sure it's not exactly an mmo unless you count frontier and still it may be pay to play but I rather pay for that game than pay for pso2.

It is a poorly balanced poorly run mess of a game it ia steadily improving but still leaves a lot to.be desired especially with the cash shops I hate that I am stuck to a cookie cutter set and can't freely change skills even if limited to a certain amiunt a week or month I want the option to experiment. To ness around have access to ither weapons abive 10* even if expensive the game isn't really pay to win but still sometimes I feel the rng can be so bad that paying is the lesser of two.evils. I can spend days or weeks sometimesevn months looking for a weapon some random can just join and get it with minimal effort

DJcooltrainer
Jul 30, 2014, 01:33 PM
I wouldn't say it's even close to being the best game I've ever played.

It's an awesome game, despite its flaws. I really do enjoy playing.

But what I think I enjoy more is playing with my friends and socializing. In terms of a social experience I think it's one of the better games out there. But as an RPG and MMO game, it has issues. (Mainly balance issues, IMO)

I think it would have turned out better if it was still a subscription-based series, to be honest. I think a lot of the issues I have with PSO2 come with the F2P game territory.

Reyva
Jul 30, 2014, 01:41 PM
Best game ever? Lol no. I mean thats saying both console and online games.

Best MMO ever? Still don't consider it a MMO like everyone else does and I say the same for games of its type. But no.

Best online action game? I wouldn't say "BEST," but its definitely up there.

Best F2P game? Not exactly the best as it has its flaws, but definitely not the worst.

Best dress up barbie game? Nope. Graphically superior games such as Vindictus, B&S, Tera, etc are better in this department.

Explanation?

First off, you can sum up everyone elses explanations as my explanation as I agree with what they said.

Story wise

Its hard to please me in the story department for a MMO. Thats because its usually not done right or they don't put a bigger emphasis on it like console games do. The only MMO that had me tied in to its story was FFXI unfortunately lol. Don't have time to play FF14.

PSO2's story reminds me of PSU except I'm too lazy to do those silly matterboard quests despite them not being that difficult. I was just never drawn in to the story. First impressions are a big deal.

For a game similar like PSO2, I got into Rusty Hearts story a bit, but that game was destroyed so I lost interest.

So PSO2's story is mediocre to me. Its nothing that keeps you reeled in, but at the same time, its better than most f2p games. For story, stick to FF11/FF14 or console games.

Graphics

Not going to lie, I can be a graphics whore at times. And unfortunately, that is how most people are these days. PSO2's graphics are just a upgraded version of PSU's graphics. In the MMO world, it doesn't hold a candle to Vindictus, FF14, B&S, and more.

However, I'm not a true graphics whore elitist. FFXI for example has shit graphics (course its a old game though), but the gameplay was sweet back then. Same thing goes for console games I play.

However, when I play a game that offers superior graphics, gameplay, and story, its a winner in my book.

Customization

No mix and match on fleshies.

Ghey ass ticket system. Make it for all toons on the account and maybe I'll shut up.

Gameplay

My biggest issue with PSO2 is difficulty, class balancing, and a class's PAs/techs. I am a old school guy who actually wants forced partying as that is how I rolled starting from PSO DC and onwards. At the same time, if we're going to have partying, I want fights to be challenging and strategic.

I think only one game did this for me (Maybe a few others) and that was FFXI back before SE changed it all up to please the soloers. When I played that game, it wasn't like I could turn around and watch TV and still be alive. Everything required teamwork and strategy. If I wanted to solo all the damn time, I'd just play a console game.

Am I saying there should be 0 solo content? No.

I can play PSO2 without paying much attention to it and there is not much incentive for me to upgrade my gears at all like I did in PSU/PSO. Its not like I was wearing shit gear in PSO2, far from it, but I didn't have the top of the line shit people always talk about on here.

I can own shit with shit. Its hilarious. And when you add party play to it, its just a snore. Especially if you get a weak bullet whore. I don't even bother after that. The game becomes a joke. I am more entertained by those people who like to think they are the shit by saying they are the shit and leeching off them.

When I first played PSO2 however, yeah, it was a rush and pretty fun. But when people started crying about this and that, some of PSO2's difficulty got toned down some. I started PSO2 from alpha.

In short, I haven't felt the rush I had when I played PSO Ultimate mode nor the rush I felt in PSU despite everyone doing White Whore S2 all day lol.

I'm just going to stop here. Its just going to end up being a super ass long post no one will read anyways. I can go on days and weeks about PSO2's problems.

DJcooltrainer
Jul 30, 2014, 01:54 PM
^ I mostly agree with you, but you really think Vindictus looks better than PSO2? It's running on the source engine, which is older than PSU.

Chigun
Jul 30, 2014, 01:54 PM
I think PSO1 is a better game if one makes some allowances for the age of it. Then again, what others found to be quirks, bugs and oversights with it I actually came to like.

I made this post elsewhere dealing with a comparison of PSO1 vs. PSO2:

---Post from X---

In a lot of ways PSO2 is a completely different experience than PSO1, and so to hardcore PSO1 gamers it will not feel better. Just different. Of course being someone who fell in love with PSO1 and enjoyed the bejesus out of it during [REDACTED]'s more active days this difference is disappointing.

Ways PSO1 is better:

-Bosses: Much like PSU, I found PSO2 bosses to be on the whole a step down from the often testosterone-inducing bosses on PSO1 (save scrubs like De Rol who might as well just die on their own). Fighting the bosses was no longer a motivator to complete the stages. It is cool that a boss or three might appear mid-stage at any given time. Also, Dark Falz Loser is a huge exception to this. That boss is absolutely amazing, and brings back the old PSO1 feeling when fighting it.

Normal Enemies: Easier, slower. Less fun. PSO2 needs an Ultimate mode with enemy attacks sped up desperately bad.

-Items: Getting god-gear is easier than in PSO1, and somewhat kills the desire to hunt. This is because great gear can be purchased often cheaply from player shops. It's not like the economy on here where one had to auction their left testicle just to get an adept. We're talking 200-300K meseta for great stuff. If one has premium, 10-star and 11-star weapons/units are also a cinch to bag.

Major Class Unbalance: This point is not so much "better" than PSO1, but more a continuation of a problem that plagued this game. Out of 80 SP available to a hunter, about 60 [if not 70] *must* be spent on maximizing DPS, or else you are dooming yourself to be outshone in big parties. Since making a hunter a subclass adds the DPS bonus to any other class without the waste of that classes' SP, Hunter is essentially doomed to be a subclass-only class. Fighter has a skill-tree with useless status-effect related options no one uses, and is outshone in every possibly way by Braver, even after recent nerfings. I know less about the other classes, but I do know Ranger is only really used for weak bullet and as a sub for Gunner. Force, on the whole, is good, and can dish out excellent damage. A recent survey says the least number of players play Techer, a sort of Force specializing in support techs, showing that the DPS of Force is preferred.

TL;DR -> About half or less of classes are used regularly, since players have picked up on the discrepancy with performance. Of course, there is always "play style" to consider. But, eh. On the plus side PSO2 devs are working on rebalancing classes as we speak, but I won't hold my breath.

Combat variety: On PSO1 I sported 10-15 weapons each with very specific uses that could be swapped around on the fly. Part of the "testosterone-inducing" bit I mentioned on bosses had to do with the fun of rapid weapon switching. On PSO2, my almost-60 Braver has ONE weapon that does everything. Sometimes I use multiple photon arts, but it hardly feels the same. I found Hunter, Fighter and Ranger to be much of the same. I assume Forces have the fun of picking many techs, though when playing with others I swear they're all using the same spell over and over (it looks like a dark hand flying).

Story Mode: Forgive my ignorance, since I haven't gotten past Matter Board 6, but I swear there is absolutely no connection whatsoever to the events in PSO1. If there is, they're taking their sweet time to make even a single passing reference to it. No one knows what happened on Ragol? No one knows such a place as Ragol exists? Really? Well, I hope I'm proven wrong later on. Still, as a game that's supposed to be a sequel, that they chose to do an entirely stand-alone story is a bit sad. Oh, and what makes this story mode worse than 1, even though there's not much to speak of there, is that you have to go on tedious item fetch-quests over and over just to unlock the next bit of story. I miss simply choosing the next story quest from a menu.

Well this post is going on longer than I expected, so I'll get to the positives.

Ways PSO2 is better:

Not too many, but that doesn't mean I don't like PSO2. I just really like PSO1.

FREE: Sure, [REDACTED] was free, but the original PSO1 was not. This is about the most content you'll get for not spending a penny anywhere in the world.

Updates: They are as frequent as they are huge. I'm impressed.

Player Customization: Very advanced. So long as you don't mess up the first go-around and have to pay IRL money to fix the mistake. Derp. You can also purchase a whole range of costumes from player shops.

Emergency Quests: Play with 11 other people in often 30 minute - 1 hour chunks of extreme action and fun. Sure, why not?

Movement: I can jump! I can zip around! Whee!

Player Rooms: You can own and decorate your own room. You can visit others' rooms. Cool beans.

Ways PSO2 is different

Some may put this under ways PSO2 is worse, but I don't feel it's really justified.

Quest Counter: Annoying, until you unlock everything. Then it's not so bad. Would be better if Episode 1 / 2 had their own staging areas like in PSO1, but oh well. The current final stage is seabed with a rather forgettable, weak boss. I would put this as a definite negative except they are still releasing stages, so it's not really fair to do so.

Client Orders: Main source of EXP/Meseta outside of Emergency Quests. Can be fun trying to get as many as possible for the least amount of effort (example: four different quest saying to beat X stage, then going to beat it for a huge reward).

Grinding/Crafting/Ability Systems: I won't go into detail, but these are different, but can also be a source of fun trying to create or improve items. Grinding an 11-star weapon to +10 can take millions of meseta lol.

And the list could go on, but I'm done for now.

Thanks for reading. :wub:

---end of post---

So no, PSO2 is not the best game I ever played. I wouldn't even say 1 is, but it's closer than 2. If I had to pick one thing that makes me feel this way more than any other, it would be the equipment thing I mentioned. I want to switch between 10-15 weapons on the fly based on situation. I hate having one weapon do everything. It gets boring really fast. And, yes, I could use more weapons, but why bother? My god-katana rapes. End of story. Nothing more to hunt.

Lumpen Thingy
Jul 30, 2014, 01:57 PM
Its the only mmo I give a damn about so despite all the flaws people here seem to whine about "ALL THE TIME",but the game is over pretty dam good.

HIT0SHI
Jul 30, 2014, 02:38 PM
Its the only mmo I give a damn about so despite all the flaws people here seem to whine about "ALL THE TIME",but the game is over pretty dam good.

^ Pretty much this.

Out of all the MMOs out there, only PSO2 keeps my attention.
It's far from perfect and it is repetitive but even after 2 years playing, I'm still having A LOT of fun and that's more than what I can ask for a game.

Hexxy
Jul 30, 2014, 04:00 PM
PSO2 truly is one of the best games of its kind. Basically, all the "flaws" people complain about plague every single other action game anyone here has ever played. PSO2 just does most of the good things better.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 04:02 PM
PSO2 truly is one of the best games of its kind. Basically, all the "flaws" people complain about plague every single other action game anyone here has ever played. PSO2 just does most of the good things better.Just spent the last few days playing God Eater, and never once felt like I died from a single stupid mistake, something that's really common in PSO2. So don't give me that crap. >_>

Zyrusticae
Jul 30, 2014, 04:13 PM
PSO2 truly is one of the best games of its kind. Basically, all the "flaws" people complain about plague every single other action game anyone here has ever played. PSO2 just does most of the good things better.
*cough*bullshit*coughcough*

Have you ever played a Platinum game? I mean... have you? Because they are far and away superior to PSO2 in every respect that counts when it comes to the combat. PSO2 has never made me feel like a true badass the way, say, Metal Gear Rising does. And it does try, I can give them credit for that much.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 04:16 PM
*cough*bullshit*coughcough*

Have you ever played a Platinum game? I mean... have you? Because they are far and away superior to PSO2 in every respect that counts when it comes to the combat. PSO2 has never made me feel like a true badass the way, say, Metal Gear Rising does. And it does try, I can give them credit for that much.I actually think games like that aren't really a fair comparison, they're kind of different sub-genres. It's like saying the metroid prime games aren't good first person shooters.

If you wanna compare it to something, the past online phatasy stars and games like the monster hunter and God Eater series would be better.

Hexxy
Jul 30, 2014, 04:19 PM
Just spent the last few days playing God Eater, and never once felt like I died from a single stupid mistake, something that's really common in PSO2. So don't give me that crap. >_>

Uh yeah. You should die from making stupid mistakes. PSO2 is definitely not the first game to put that one to good use. Was Contra a bad game because you die in a single hit? When you mistakenly dodge a boss the wrong way in Vindictus, do you not pay for it dearly?

Think about how freaking powerful everyone is in PSO2. You can destroy hundreds of oodans with the click of a button, but when a single oodan smashes your face in, suddenly the game is unbalanced right?

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 04:24 PM
Uh yeah. You should die from making stupid mistakes. PSO2 is definitely not the first game to put that one to good use. Was Contra a bad game because you die in a single hit? When you mistakenly dodge a boss the wrong way in Vindictus, do you not pay for it dearly?

Think about how freaking powerful everyone is in PSO2. You can destroy hundreds of oodans with the click of a button, but when a single oodan smashes your face in, suddenly the game is unbalanced right?Not, ONE stupid mistake. Maybe for some sort of hardcore content, but that kind of stuff shouldn't be happening in normal gameplay, not so easily. It should be a culmination of bad play, not just a "oops I dodged too soon, now I have to redo the whole quest".

And having played vindictus, I can attest that missing a dodge or whatever isn't gonna get you oneshot unless you're underleveled/undergeared, and doing a raid boss.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be conciquences for making mistakes, I'm saying that they shouldn't be so severe in normal content.

Contra is an entirely different genre, why are you bringing it up?

EDIT: To clarify I do think the game goes into a weird area buy being too forgiving and too harsh at the same time. Instead of enemies being stupid strong and wrecking everyone's face, I'd rather see player resources be more limited, no buying mates mid-quest for instance (and maybe decreasing the ammount of them you get). Running out of resources should be something you actually take into account. Right now running out of moons is the only problem, but you have 5 per party member which is usually more than you ever need.

Alternatively decrease how much you actually have to retry. Most games like this either throw you striaght into the objective fight, or give you checkpoints. The result is that if you mess up you can immediately try again. Usually that has some kind of impact on your score and rewards, but it gives you time to focus on what you're trying to do and learning how to do it, instead of frustrating you by making you go through all the stuff you know you can do easily again.

Zyrusticae
Jul 30, 2014, 04:31 PM
Yeah, even Dark Souls doesn't one-shot the player so much, and that's a game famous for its ("artificial") difficulty. It's no surprise that the one boss that has a heavy one-shot mechanic (The Bed of Chaos) is the single most hated boss of the entire game.

Usually your deaths are a culmination of multiple mistakes, i.e. getting hit while you're at the edge of a ledge, getting surrounded, failing to block or intercept attacks multiple times, trying to flask up at the wrong moment, and so on and so forth. Most of the time, you can learn from your mistakes and improve your play accordingly.

PSO2, meanwhile, has a bad habit of making the player suffer attacks that are difficult to read that do massive damage, as well as one-shotting them for simple mistakes with tight margins of error (godDAMN you, Dragon EX). Not so cool, that.


I actually think games like that aren't really a fair comparison, they're kind of different sub-genres. It's like saying the metroid prime games aren't good first person shooters.

If you wanna compare it to something, the past online phatasy stars and games like the monster hunter and God Eater series would be better.
The thing is, it's really damn obvious that this is where things are converging. This is the market they're shooting for. They're trying to reach that level of combat, but stopping far short of actually attaining it. Just Reversal, Just Guard (and blocking in general, really), Hunter Step, all of these things are here because they're trying to up the ante on the action element, and a lot of that is inspired by genuine character action games like the Platinum games.

Hell, wouldn't surprise me at all if the inevitable sequel played almost exactly like Dragon's Dogma, parkour and all. Whether or not they do so competently is another matter.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 04:39 PM
Just Reversal, Just Guard (and blocking in general, really), Hunter Step, all of these things are here because they're trying to up the ante on the action element, and a lot of that is inspired by genuine character action games like the Platinum games.
You realize you can do all of that in Monster Hunter, God Eater, and Vindictus right? The rest of the systems are just extentions of things that have been in the only phantasy star games for a long time.

Like, I don't dissagree that they have things in common, or that there are things from those game that could benifit PSO2. I just don't think it was "trying" to be like a character action game just because because combos are possible, anymore than it was trying to be Vanquish because there's an over the shoulder shooting mode.

Daiyousei
Jul 30, 2014, 04:43 PM
trying to flask up at the wrong moment,

Drink a mate at the wrong moment and I can relate to that.

Zyrusticae
Jul 30, 2014, 04:53 PM
You realize you can do all of that in Monster Hunter, God Eater, and Vindictus right? The rest of the systems are just extentions of things that have been in the only phantasy star games for a long time.

Like, I don't dissagree that they have things in common, or that there are things from those game that could benifit PSO2. I just don't think it was "trying" to be like a character action game just because because combos are possible, anymore than it was trying to be Vanquish because there's an over the shoulder shooting mode.
Yeah, we're just not gonna see eye-to-eye on this. The inspiration is clear as day to me. Especially when we start getting into shit like most of the katana and TMG PAs, where shit's going so completely over-the-top they're entering the stratosphere.

Would you feel better if I started comparing it to Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma? Because that's not a terribly favorable comparison either, truth be told.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 04:56 PM
Yeah, we're just not gonna see eye-to-eye on this. The inspiration is clear as day to me. Especially when we start getting into shit like most of the katana and TMG PAs, where shit's going so completely over-the-top they're entering the stratosphere.

Would you feel better if I started comparing it to Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma? Because that's not a terribly favorable comparison either, truth be told.Well like I said, a lot of stuff is extenstions of things from past games. PSU had really flashy PAs too.

And no, those games are in a whole other direction. I: Besides, I never said anything about a favorable comparison, just a fair one. I already discussed what I think Vindictus and God Eater have done better than PSO2.

subtledemise
Jul 30, 2014, 05:00 PM
I don't think the game is as bad as people like to make out. I personally think it's pretty awesome, and I've been playing the PSO series since the Gamecube days. I think it's actually better than that game, better character creation and way less repetitive. It also is far superior to PSU, in which the lobby area was an open world spread out on a bunch of planets, and for a game which so few people played in the first place, it just didn't work.

Xaelouse
Jul 30, 2014, 05:00 PM
Drink a mate at the wrong moment and I can relate to that.

only trimate could be considered as punishing as a flask in Dark Souls, but not as much because the healing is instant in this game.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 05:06 PM
I don't think the game is as bad as people like to make out. I personally think it's pretty awesome, and I've been playing the PSO series since the Gamecube days. I think it's actually better than that game, better character creation and way less repetitive. It also is far superior to PSU, in which the lobby area was an open world spread out on a bunch of planets, and for a game which so few people played in the first place, it just didn't work.I give the game so much shit BECAUSE I like it. If I wasn't at least having fun then I wouldn't be playing anywhere near as much as I do.

But I also like party rock anthem, Sword Art Online, and Mabinogi, so I clearly have low standards.

Zyrusticae
Jul 30, 2014, 05:18 PM
Well like I said, a lot of stuff is extenstions of things from past games. PSU had really flashy PAs too.

And no, those games are in a whole other direction. I: Besides, I never said anything about a favorable comparison, just a fair one. I already discussed what I think Vindictus and God Eater have done better than PSO2.
Eh. This conversation feels really goddamn arbitrary at this point.

If there's a movelist and there's hitstun and there's guarding and dodging and shit, I am going to compare those games to each other. End of story. Fair or not, doesn't matter to me.

Also, PSU was the very beginning of their move towards more character action, and PSO2 is a few steps ahead of that in that regard. It feels weird to make arbitrary boxes where this game is only comparable to X and Y games but not Z and A games because... reasons, when there's so much they have in common anyway.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 05:26 PM
I guess I should reiterate. I don't think the games aren't comparable on principle. Just that holding PSO2 to ALL the standards of a character action game doesn't make sense when all it REALLY has in common with them that's not in the other games I listed is being flashy (and even then vindictus is pretty close). A lot of the stuff they have in common is, as I said before, shared with other games that clearly aren't meant to be character action games. It's an all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares kinda thing.

And any conversation with me about semantics is arbitrary. I just find it fun and thought provoking. It's how I get to know people.

Also, what move list? ._. You don't perform specific combos for PAs or anything.

EDIT: Hell, I think a skill buying system based off points that considers it normal to get all the skills maxed like almost every character action game does would be worlds better than the bloated skill tree system.

ReaperTheAbsol
Jul 30, 2014, 05:28 PM
Nope.

Hexxy
Jul 30, 2014, 05:34 PM
Not, ONE stupid mistake. Maybe for some sort of hardcore content, but that kind of stuff shouldn't be happening in normal gameplay, not so easily. It should be a culmination of bad play, not just a "oops I dodged too soon, now I have to redo the whole quest".

And having played vindictus, I can attest that missing a dodge or whatever isn't gonna get you oneshot unless you're underleveled/undergeared, and doing a raid boss.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be conciquences for making mistakes, I'm saying that they shouldn't be so severe in normal content.

Contra is an entirely different genre, why are you bringing it up?

I brought it up not to compare the two games, but to discuss why "making a single mistake kills me often" is not a good reason to take points away from pso2. The "gotta go fast" mentality of most players is what causes deaths via stupid mistakes. Only a few things in the game have timers you actually have to watch (and even then the timers are so large it doesn't matter), so the fact that players don't take time to sit at range and assess how to approach a fight that may potentially destroy them is not really the fault of the game. This applies universally.

Again, considering power levels, I think the game is fair in being unforgiving with damage. Playing with friends makes this trivial (and you're really meant to, hence the online).


As for comparing this with other action games, the only thing pso2 differs in is the "lack" of aesthetic flair (even still, some of the animations are actually pretty). It doesn't have the automated cgi cutscenes or the button mash events. At the end of the day the combat is still about fighting 10 things and timing attacks so you one-shot them before they one-shot you.

Vampy
Jul 30, 2014, 05:35 PM
I used to have fun but pretty much all fun I have in it now is not even related to the game it's the people in it. As a free to play mmo it's not the worst far from it but as game itself it is my worst by far I haven't played god awful games thankfully but the games I have played have been of much higher quality and polish.

My issue with the game is that it tries so hard to be bugger than it needs to be if they streamlined a ew things and do stuff with in their range and expertise I feel this game could be so much better.


Comparing it to monster hunter is unfair also it has one of the largest if not the largest fanbase in japan it's had monster hunter frontier running since 2007 and I do not see it dying any time soon. Hell they got a new expansion last week and I see it packed in both JP and non JP primetime. Also their objectives are completeky different pso2 is more focused on small enemies with bosses taking a back seat to them while in monster hunter they are the main attraction. Comparing the two will leave one side or the other unsatisfied. A large part of them time being us in the monster hunter camp.

SakoHaruo
Jul 30, 2014, 05:36 PM
The real question is... what/who in the hell convinced you create this thread? And... who told YOU Phantasy Star Online 2 is the best game they have ever played? That person might have an heart attack if you show them real greatness.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 05:43 PM
I brought it up not to compare the two games, but to discuss why "making a single mistake kills me often" is not a good reason to take points away from pso2. The "gotta go fast" mentality of most players is what causes deaths via stupid mistakes. Only a few things in the game have timers you actually have to watch (and even then the timers are so large it doesn't matter), so the fact that players don't take time to sit at range and assess how to approach a fight that may potentially destroy them is not really the fault of the game. This applies universally.

Again, considering power levels, I think the game is fair in being unforgiving with damage. Playing with friends makes this trivial (and you're really meant to, hence the online).


As for comparing this with other action games, the only thing pso2 differs in is the "lack" of aesthetic flair (even still, some of the animations are actually pretty). It doesn't have the automated cgi cutscenes or the button mash events. At the end of the day the combat is still about fighting 10 things and timing attacks so you one-shot them before they one-shot you.I'm not sure I understand the first point. Are you saying people need to "git gud" and that when they do they'll never make mistakes or have accidents at all? Cause I'm talking about small mistakes, like missed timing, or getting attacked from behind by an angry banther because you literally can't keep both of those slippery ass tigers on your screen, not something stupid like getting caught in Quartz's blatantly telegraphed AoE laser spam of doom that everyone complained about when he came out.

The fact that playing with other people almost entirely trivializes the game is a whole other issue.



Comparing it to monster hunter is unfair also it has one of the largest if not the largest fanbase in japan it's had monster hunter frontier running since 2007 and I do not see it dying any time soon. Hell they got a new expansion last week and I see it packed in both JP and non JP primetime. Also their objectives are completeky different pso2 is more focused on small enemies with bosses taking a back seat to them while in monster hunter they are the main attraction. Comparing the two will leave one side or the other unsatisfied. A large part of them time being us in the monster hunter camp.
I'm mostly talking about general gameplay and the way boss fights play out (which I'd honestly compare more to God eater than monster hunter). I know the focuses are different. Also, I'm not sure what popularity or longetevity has to do with gameplay quality. The PSO series is older than monster hunter, but as giga pointed out, they keep making the same mistakes they did in past games, and not bringing in good ideas they had before (like the class extend system in Phantasy Star portable2) . While I'm sure monster hunter isn't perfect, it serves as a better comparison than Bayonetta or DMC. Really I want to say that PSO2 is kinda in a league of it's own, none of the PSO, PSU, or PSP games have really felt exactly like something else, Monster Hunter and God Eater are just a closer comparison gameplay wise, even if the focus is different.

Hexxy
Jul 30, 2014, 06:00 PM
I'm not sure I understand the first point. Are you saying people need to "git gud" and that when they do they'll never make mistakes or have accidents at all? Cause I'm talking about small mistakes, like missed timing, or getting attacked from behind by an angry banther because you literally can't keep both of those slippery ass tigers on your screen, not something stupid like getting caught in Quartz's blatantly telegraphed AoE laser spam of doom that everyone complained about when he came out.

The fact that playing with other people almost entirely trivializes the game is a whole other issue.

No.skill level is one thing. I'm just saying that mistakes should be punished. Even small ones. Timing is the entire point of combat. If you miss it you certainly shouldn't get away unscathed. Like I said there is always the option of waiting for the enemy to make a mistake first. On the topic of content like cats being tough because of vision limits, that's when you bring a friend. You're meant to.

Vampy
Jul 30, 2014, 06:01 PM
Gameplay wise they are similar until you count PAs that makes it feel so much different. Yes I know it is older but nit by much 3 years if I remember correctly monster hunter has remained unchanged at it's core for four generations they have only refined it and added new mechanics. You can go between all games and pick up and play the feel has never changed monster hunter has some issues but far smaller ines than pso2.



Now for the guy who says our mistakes should be punished yes they should but holy fuck sometimes we can do things perfectly and still die from one shot or just entering a room I can count how many times I enter a room and quartz just rams me just because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Zyrusticae
Jul 30, 2014, 06:01 PM
I guess I should reiterate. I don't think the games aren't comparable on principle. Just that holding PSO2 to ALL the standards of a character action game doesn't make sense when all it REALLY has in common with them that's not in the other games I listed is being flashy (and even then vindictus is pretty close). A lot of the stuff they have in common is, as I said before, shared with other games that clearly aren't meant to be character action games. It's an all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares kinda thing.

And any conversation with me about semantics is arbitrary. I just find it fun and thought provoking. It's how I get to know people.

Also, what move list? ._. You don't perform specific combos for PAs or anything.

EDIT: Hell, I think a skill buying system based off points that considers it normal to get all the skills maxed like almost every character action game does would be worlds better than the bloated skill tree system.
IIII DOOO NOOOT UNDERSTAAAAND.

Forget I asked. I won't even try anymore. None of what you're saying makes sense to me.

As for move lists, the PAs ARE the move list. They just let you mess with the movelist for each weapon instead of making it a preset thing (frankly, I think the game would benefit from having an actual movelist instead, where every single PA is available at your fingertips with the right button presses).

Hexxy
Jul 30, 2014, 06:05 PM
Gameplay wise they are similar until you count PAs that makes it feel so much different. Yes I know it is older but nit by much 3 years if I remember correctly monster hunter has remained unchanged at it's core for four generations they have only refined it and added new mechanics. You can go between all games and pick up and play the feel has never changed monster hunter has some issues but far smaller ines than pso2.



Now for the guy who says our mistakes should be punished yes they should but holy fuck sometimes we can do things perfectly and still die from one shot or just entering a room I can count how many times I enter a room and quartz just rams me just because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I know what you're actually talking about and that one is actually bad design on sega's part. They don't like to have safe areas to start bosses at

Neith
Jul 30, 2014, 06:09 PM
No, I'd say it's a poorly balanced dress-up simulator if I wanted to be blunt.

Maybe once Episode 3 launches and we get someone else in charge of balancing it'll improve a bit. For now every MPA is just Forces spamming Ilmegid, stuff disintegrates in seconds including bosses, the economy is broken as hell (very apparent in this update, look at the prices for the new wings) and there's little to no variety in missions (Arks missions are always 'kill X points of X enemy, then sub boss with maybe a collect or destruction code thrown in the middle. Rinse and repeat for every area).

Unfortunately the combat system is quite good, just completely unbalanced. I'd love to see the game improve and for a 'free' game it isn't too bad but one of the best games I've ever played? Not even close.

BIG OLAF
Jul 30, 2014, 06:09 PM
Depends on what parameters we're using.

In general, no.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 06:12 PM
No.skill level is one thing. I'm just saying that mistakes should be punished. Even small ones. Timing is the entire point of combat. If you miss it you certainly shouldn't get away unscathed. Like I said there is always the option of waiting for the enemy to make a mistake first. On the topic of content like cats being tough because of vision limits, that's when you bring a friend. You're meant to.Again, I'm not sure what you're saying. I never said mistakes shouldn't have conciquences, just that single small mistakes shouldn't completely ruin a run on their own. Again, it should be a culmination of small mistakes or one big one that you wouldn't make if you were paying any attention, but not a single slipped moment or missed guard against a fast attack that's hard to time. You should be able to recover from small mistakes at the cost of time and/or resources that might cost you in the long term if they happen too often.

This is the whole premise of a lot of the other games we've been talking about. You can get hit, but the more you get hit, the less likely you'll be able to recover from that, or the less resources you'll have when you REALLY need them.
And I already said that playing with other people causes the opposite problem.

The game is REALLY FUCKING EASY with at least 2 actual players. In that regard I agree with you, and I think the game should be more punishing for party play.

ArataWata
Jul 30, 2014, 06:15 PM
It's arguably one of the better free to play games that I've played, but I wouldn't say it's one of the best games I've played.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 06:17 PM
IIII DOOO NOOOT UNDERSTAAAAND.

Forget I asked. I won't even try anymore. None of what you're saying makes sense to me.

As for move lists, the PAs ARE the move list. They just let you mess with the movelist for each weapon instead of making it a preset thing (frankly, I think the game would benefit from having an actual movelist instead, where every single PA is available at your fingertips with the right button presses).No offense, but everything you're saying makes it sound like the only 3D action games you've played are character action games. :/

Have you even seen God Eater gameplay?

Taskus
Jul 30, 2014, 06:23 PM
To the original topic: No it is not the best mmo ive played, there are some issues (that have already been discussed in this thread I believe) that need to be addressed

Buuuuuuuuuuut

its helping to fill the void between awaiting other titles like blade and soul/archeage. And for a ftp mmo its not exactly bottom of the barrel either. I like the pseudo-action combat better than what some other titles like neverwinter or c9 have tried. The fact that its futuristic anime in space rather than medieval elves and humans was a nice change of pace too.

I really wish the quests were better, like The Secret World. Many of those were oh so satisfying.

Freshellent
Jul 30, 2014, 06:31 PM
There's too many restrictions in the game and too much bs with numbers and overall balance for me to ever consider this one of the best games for myself.

I have moments on PSO2 where I question why I'm playing it, constantly. For every step forward, there is a least two more backwards and it bothers the hell out of me. I don't seem to feel that way when I play games like Monster Hunter- where I commit weeks to farming stuff and I feel actual rewards for my efforts and I genuinely enjoy every moment of it. Unless I'm doing Lao or Jhen or something like that, the design of those fights bothers the ever living fuck out of me.

In PSO2, I felt restricted in things that make me raise an eyebrow. Like wearing outfits, for example. As a fleshie, you have so few options it's painful. A least as a superior CAST I can actually stand out from the rest of them, I love that.

The combat is a mixed bag. I really enjoy some elements of it. Other times I sighing because when I last played, everything I wanted to use was considered useless and just didn't match up in numbers. I could deal with that, if there was ways to make the options available to use useful. But with raw numbers, RNG, and hitboxes, it's incredibly difficult to make a case for it. I'm not above faceroll, but I enjoy being rewarded for being skilled with something. There's never a time where I think I can't kill a monster in Monster Hunter. Even if it's not the best weapon for the job, it can be done with smart play. With obvious shortcomings of course.

PSO2 sits at a very solid 'okay' with me at this time. I'd never recommend it to anyone, but I wouldn't tell them to avoid it so long as they were aware of the cashshop walls and painful f2p restrictions.

Imjake
Jul 30, 2014, 06:59 PM
To an extent, yeah. My favorite MMO for sure; as was PSU before pso2 came out. I play a ton of MMOs, but I like the style of the PS games the best. However, I refuse to play with a VPN for fear of being permanently banned if caught and I can't play without it right now. Furthermore, until all the ISPs are able to connect, Im not going to give another penny to Sega. Since I refuse to play without premium, I guess Im SOL for now. Maybe some day we can ALL connect again like normal without a VPN, until then, RIP to my PSO2 career :(

Imjake
Jul 30, 2014, 07:00 PM
For Freshellent: You are just bad. Your post was bad. And, you should feel bad.

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 07:16 PM
For Freshellent: You are just bad. Your post was bad. And, you should feel bad.What's wrong with his post?

Zyrusticae
Jul 30, 2014, 07:24 PM
No offense, but everything you're saying makes it sound like the only 3D action games you've played are character action games. :/

Have you even seen God Eater gameplay?
Yes, and no, this doesn't matter. I mean, really, you're splitting hairs and I have no interest in that kind of conversation. It's just not very productive.

Chigun
Jul 30, 2014, 07:26 PM
Nothing, as far as I can tell. Great contribution, Imjake.

On topic: PSO2 is boring once getting good gear and using the same PAs over and over (pretty much inevitable). Getting gear is laughably easy when using the player shops. End game is achievable in no time. It's bad to actually want more grind, but for God's sake hunting for items in this game does not feel nearly as exciting or rewarding as previous PS titles I've played.

Chrysheight
Jul 30, 2014, 07:35 PM
No. I say this because I shouldn't be punished for playing the game how I want. I don't mean stuff like timings and not get punished. I shouldn't be punished for playing the game solo. I shouldn't be forced to have less drops and less monster spawns because I don't have people to play with right then or don't want to play with people.

Not being in a party or MPA, I get less rares, less monsters therefore less exp, less pse bursts. The monsters in this game aren't that overwhelming. But in other MMOs I can get the same exact chances as everyone whether I'm in a party or not. That has always bugged me and it detracts from the experience imo.

And I'm not saying the game needs to be easier to find stuff etc. In fact, if they increase it, I wouldn't care so much. I just want the same amount of monsters as a 4 player party while solo. If I click 1 Player, I want the game to be like "Hey, this player is confident. Let's give him spawns for 4 people." The fact that I can't solo and get anywhere really bugs me.

Chigun
Jul 30, 2014, 07:38 PM
No. I say this because I shouldn't be punished for playing the game how I want. I don't mean stuff like timings and not get punished. I shouldn't be punished for playing the game solo. I shouldn't be forced to have less drops and less monster spawns because I don't have people to play with right then or don't want to play with people.

Not being in a party or MPA, I get less rares, less monsters therefore less exp, less pse bursts. The monsters in this game aren't that overwhelming. But in other MMOs I can get the same exact chances as everyone whether I'm in a party or not. That has always bugged me and it detracts from the experience imo.

To be fair a lot of MMOs I'm privy to actually require you to be in 70+ people raids for hours on end week after week to get the best gear, which to me does not sound like my scene at all. There's not much you can do about monsters/PSE bursts, but for the rest just stock up on EXP and rare drop boost items.

Chrysheight
Jul 30, 2014, 07:43 PM
I'm not so much complaining about gear. I should clarify. I'm not asking for more 11*s etc. I would like more stuff I could feed my mag or shit I could excube. Trash 10*s are good for that. Give me at least a chance to find them when solo-ing. MPAs and stuff. But I'd like to just have more chances at stuff solo-ing. My main problem is when I solo SHAQ and I can't get enough to pay for my next AQ solo, but I can in a party.

I just don't want to be forced to play in a party for having more chances at the same things. That bugs me.

Totori
Jul 30, 2014, 08:02 PM
It's pretty close to one of the best games I ever played, falls under any atelier games though.

minim
Jul 30, 2014, 08:12 PM
it is by far the best. and I have played every game in existence almost

Freshellent
Jul 30, 2014, 08:27 PM
For Freshellent: You are just bad. Your post was bad. And, you should feel bad.

I've openly said multiple times that I'm bad at the game and don't have anyone to blame for it but myself because I'm unwilling to put in the effort.

I don't feel bad about it, and I don't expect anyone here to change my mind about it either.

I don't enjoy the game, I'm not getting street cred by denying it so I don't see a point in defending myself.

So yes, I'm what a lot of people call a 'baddie' at this game.

I think one of us will get over it.

Enforcer MKV
Jul 30, 2014, 08:48 PM
-snip-

For what it's worth, I found your view to be very, well....accurate.

So, +1 for that and +1 for....well....just take the extra +1 dammit. xD

Gama
Jul 30, 2014, 09:11 PM
Not the best game i ever played but its the only mmo series i actually enjoy.

best game i ever played is... Sonic 1. i feel very nostalgic about it.

a recent"kinda" game i enjoyed allot was... Tomb raider underworld. hated the new one.

Laxedrane
Jul 30, 2014, 09:16 PM
Is this the best game I've ever played? No. I be hard pressed to put it in my top 50. This game it's a shit ton of fun, it's held my interest for a long time even though it did drag during it's female only outfits barely any content even by pso2 standards.

However in terms of game that I put as much time as I have into this one. It's already passed PSU in terms of me consistently playing it. I am enjoying it WAY MORE then I ever did either of FF MMos.

Maybe it's faults keep it from being that drug inducing level of addiction which I actually prefer. I feel this game is more reminiscent of "Poker night." I sit down with friends and/or the Boyfriend we chill, we BS and we have a good time. The game engauging enough on it's own but not so demanding we can't talk about our day/week. I love it, and will keep playing into the foreseeable future.

That's enough for me to call it an awesome game!

Cyron Tanryoku
Jul 30, 2014, 09:43 PM
PSO2 is down there with Sonic 06 tbh

Kondibon
Jul 30, 2014, 09:52 PM
PSO2 is down there with Sonic 06 tbhI thought Sonic 06 was bad because it was a buggy mess... ._.

Cyron Tanryoku
Jul 30, 2014, 09:56 PM
The bugs weren't the games real main problem as it was the story, acting, level design choices, hud worlds, town quests, etc.

The game could be bugless and it'd still be shit

ashley50
Jul 30, 2014, 09:59 PM
Having not played a lot of games that looks and controls like PSO2, I'd say its up there but definitely not the best.

It's a game that I'd like to be a part of my gaming library despite its flaws and shortcomings.

lostinseganet
Jul 30, 2014, 10:36 PM
I would love it more if sega loved me back. The history of how sega treats the non jpn customers just can not be forgotten.

Gamemako
Jul 30, 2014, 11:13 PM
In PSO2 I actually have a tendancy to zone out during MPA runs; in FFXIV I actually have to pay attention to the mechanics of the fight, which is ironic given that one is supposed to be more action-based than the other.

Pshaw, unless you're doing BCT5-9 or EX primals, you totally can zone the hell out in FFXIV, even as tank. You do something enough times, and it just doesn't require any thought. Before I quit, I was pretty much sleepwalking through everything but T5, and that basically required that you commit everything to muscle memory anyway since any nontrivial mistake was a wipe (now you have echo buff, though, you lazy sods).

Anyway, to the point, PSO2 is the best action MMO I've played, though I have yet to touch B&S. However, I think action-MMOs are still getting their legs, and PSO2 is going to look really dated in terms of design in 5 years.

TaigaUC
Jul 30, 2014, 11:41 PM
In PSO2 I start to fall asleep during Bursts or running from point A to B. Some of my friends also doze off at the same times.
It's really obvious because we start endlessly running into walls.

In BnS I fall asleep pretty much everywhere outside of the last two floors of Mushin Tower.
Probably because the boss AI there glitches so much that I'm too angry to fall asleep.
"Think you're gonna beat me, huh!? How about I become completely invincible for absolutely no reason, and for such a long time that it becomes completely impossible to beat me! Hah!"
The endgame 24-man dungeon bosses in BnS are especially dull. I even wrote some macros to automate most of the encounters in BnS.
Can't talk about FFXIV as I haven't played it, but it looks like another WoW wannabe.

When I raided in WoW, I used to be able to alt-tab between 3-4 clients to heal, tank, buff and do damage. Without using macros.
I think that says a lot about how much attention was needed from one person playing a single class. No idea what it's like now.

You can also tell how involving a game is by whether you can eat meals during it.

Lumpen Thingy
Jul 31, 2014, 12:03 AM
holy fuck people bitch about the little problems in this game....its like every forum ever for any mmo its just amazing :D

final_attack
Jul 31, 2014, 12:04 AM
As a game with Dual Gun class, battle-system, and PvE oriented system (no PvP is a giant plus for me) .... then yes, PSO2 is the best MMO I've played so far. Actually, the longest MMO I played is PSO2 ^^;

To be fair, I only played some other MMO, and mostly I just play as heal + buff support slave due to lack of Dual gun class ._. Tried PvP-oriented ones, of course ..... but, I usually ditch it after 3 days or after a few moments if it's waaaay too PvP Oriented ._.

Other than that, I usually play single-player offline games ._. I don't have problem with consoles too, of course.

blace
Jul 31, 2014, 12:10 AM
Actions like dodging become muscle memory in this game. I've played a few games similar to this in terms of combat system, but nothing with the depth of character customization in PSO2. Maybe Black Desert, but that isn't quite out in the west just yet.

I'm a solo player and as such rely either on random party members or AI on occasion. The AI in this game is disappointing in that the AI generally walks in circles to get to a target or use PA's or Techs that are unsuitable for the occasion, as well as not being able to execute a charged Tech proper.

Pinning onto God Eater, mentioned by Kondibon, the AI in the game generally was either offensive, defensive or supportive in the matter they would focus on survival and can generally hold their own in a fight. In that, you can direct the AI to search the surrounding area for enemies and call them in to converge on a target. In PSO2, they cluster around you waiting for an enemy to get close before they perform any action. Another example I can give is the exploration system used in Persona 3/FES where you can tell your AI party to split up and in doing so can pick up items and do battles on their own and when you meet up with them, they will give you said items. Nothing of the sort exists in PSO2.

The environment could be more open, but as it is now, it's a monotonous chore to run from point A to point B to clear the area. Even the preceding area doesn't have much variation, but slight change to its previous area. In the original PSO, you could see definitive changes in environment, for example Caves 1 to Caves 2. The environment remains far too static and is rather monotone and generic in terms of design.

When it comes to the combat, spamming the one PA or Tech is more than sufficient to clearing the map, but lacks the variety as everyone will do the same. In this game, there are plenty of other abilities to use, but really, who wants to use a PA or Tech that doesn't just do huge numbers to bosses anyway? Who doesn't want to clear out as many enemies as possible during Bursts and the like? I would like to see some variation, but the powerful PA's and Techs are all there will ever be.

I've played a few games of the genre and honestly, PSO2 does a pretty terrible job with balancing and immersion. It's up there in terms of design and aesthetic, but everything I covered are the major gripes I have with the game.

LEИ
Jul 31, 2014, 12:45 AM
PSO2 as best game? Not even close.

However, i find it as a good casual dress-up game like one of those generic MMOs nowadays.
(PSO2's story is pretty good btw. It's one of the few reasons why I still haven't dropped this game yet.)

jeremycards
Jul 31, 2014, 12:47 AM
yes i would o-o as of now, im not planing on playing another mmo... ever. Maybe something will come out later that may change my mind, but as of now, its not in my plans. I just love this game too much D= and there's still so much to see about it, and with the updates still coming so frequently, it wil take a looooooooong time to find out everything.

Chdata
Jul 31, 2014, 12:48 AM
lol nope but it's better than a lot of things out there

The Walrus
Jul 31, 2014, 12:50 AM
yes i would o-o as of now, im not planing on playing another mmo... ever. Maybe something will come out later that may change my mind, but as of now, its not in my plans. I just love this game too much D= and there's still so much to see about it, and with the updates still coming so frequently, it wil take a looooooooong time to find out everything.

The only frequently updated stuff is the AC scratch...


holy fuck people bitch about the little problems in this game....its like every forum ever for any mmo its just amazing :D

There are still plenty of bigger issues with the game too :/

mctastee
Jul 31, 2014, 01:12 AM
It's a fun game, but it is certainly not the best I have played in any aspect.

TaigaUC
Jul 31, 2014, 01:52 AM
holy fuck people bitch about the little problems in this game....its like every forum ever for any mmo its just amazing :D

Maybe because MMOs tend to have the same stupid problems.
Nobody bothers trying to fix 'em, cuz why bother when people shower you with cash anyway.
Or because whenever someone makes valid criticism, people like you start saying stuff like "holy fuck people bitch about the little problems in this game".

strikerhunter
Jul 31, 2014, 01:55 AM
It's a fun game, but it is certainly not the best I have played in any aspect.

lol nope but it's better than a lot of things out there

Pretty much this.

ShinMaruku
Jul 31, 2014, 03:00 AM
Compared to other games?

Not at all.

Within the MMO Genre? Yeah it is. But I havnt played many MMOs.

I love PSO2. It's a very fun game.

But christ does this game have issues.
Not a MMO.

As for best game I ever played? Hell no sega is too incompetent for that. I will say it has potential, but it's current team will never reach that. But it is engaging and entertaining.

Kikikiki
Jul 31, 2014, 03:17 AM
Not a MMO.

Here we go again.

ShinMaruku
Jul 31, 2014, 03:39 AM
When it's wrong it's wrong. We must be firm on that. :P

Lumpen Thingy
Jul 31, 2014, 03:48 AM
When it's wrong it's wrong. We must be firm on that. :P

the series has been a MMO since PSO and thinking otherwise is just silly at this point -_-

Chik'Tikka
Jul 31, 2014, 03:48 AM
It's way up there for games i like (liked)+^_^+ shame about that whole DDoS thing...
PSO2 will never really feel the same anymore with all those people gone...

ShinMaruku
Jul 31, 2014, 03:55 AM
MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online.
Is PSO massively multiplayer? Do you play with hundreds of people in a open persistent world? Nope. That disqualifies it as an MMO.

Kikikiki
Jul 31, 2014, 05:48 AM
Yeah, you're right.

But it's not like people care enough to call it an action-driven free to play multiplayer online role-playing game.

So can you stop dwelling on that?

WildarmsRE5
Jul 31, 2014, 06:07 AM
gonna have to borrow Kondibon's pic.

http://i322.photobucket.com/albums/nn433/invicitus666/1222594901512.jpg

on topic: I don't know why, and I don't mind that I can't get by the day without atleast touching this game. . . or KanColle.

Chigun
Jul 31, 2014, 06:16 AM
This is the third place I saw this MMO discussion break out, and as you can probably guess I'm not exactly a veteran of this place.

PSO2 functions very much like other PS titles. You'd think someone would have settled on a term for it by now. But ultimately, why does this matter at all?

It doesn't.

Achelousaurus
Jul 31, 2014, 06:47 AM
Well the big difference between massive and just multi is that massive is total shit.
You get to play alongside others without actually interacting with them and often difficulty is a joke cause simply 50 people can tag along and then absolutely everything ever dies within seconds (well, Ragnarok...).

Anywa, yes and no.
it's easily one of the best games I ever played because I have absurd amounts of fun for over 500 hours already and really no end in sight, not even a cryptic halfway mark.
And in the end fun is what it's all about.

On the other hand, there are a lot of gameplay and balancing issues.
Not to mention it's not very polished in a lot of areas.
And that's not counting the GLARING problems like grinding / ability affixing.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 07:26 AM
To be fair I actually think it's a valid discussion for this thread since the distinction matters.

the_importer_
Jul 31, 2014, 08:01 AM
Yikes, this topic went from into an all out war. Guys, mostly everything you stated aren't really flaws in general, they're just personal opinions which can differ from person to person.

Anyway, thanks for your inputs, I just wanted your opinions on the matter.

Sp-24
Jul 31, 2014, 08:19 AM
It's one of the better online action games that I've tried out. Best game ever, though? I wonder if it would even make it into my top 300, considering that I've seen stuff with better gameplay, story, graphics, visual design, no bullshit that comes with free-to-play model and no IP block.

Ofzen
Jul 31, 2014, 08:22 AM
It's not the best game I've ever played, but it's not the worst. To be perfectly honest, I don't even have a "best game I ever played". I don't play many games these days though, so what do I know. :/

zerog40
Jul 31, 2014, 08:58 AM
archeage is probably the best of mmos ive played

DJcooltrainer
Jul 31, 2014, 09:09 AM
MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online.
Is PSO massively multiplayer? Do you play with hundreds of people in a open persistent world? Nope. That disqualifies it as an MMO.

The ships could arguably be considered the persistent world, as they still exist even when no players are logged in. Many MMO games are split up into multiple lobbies or channels for performance reasons.

I think you're taking the MMO definition a little too literally. The game doesn't have to even have a persistent world to be considered an MMO. By definition, an MMO game is any online game that supports a very large number of players simultaneously.

Semantics, really.

WildarmsRE5
Jul 31, 2014, 09:18 AM
The ships could arguably be considered the persistent world, as they still exist even when no players are logged in. Many MMO games are split up into multiple lobbies or channels for performance reasons.

I think you're taking the MMO definition a little too literally. The game doesn't have to even have a persistent world to be considered an MMO. By definition, an MMO game is any online game that supports a very large number of players simultaneously.

Semantics, really.you're not supposed to put gasoline on a fire.

big mistake.

the_importer_
Jul 31, 2014, 09:22 AM
you're not supposed to put gasoline on a fire.

big mistake.

Bah, I said before and I'll say it again, no media genre has ever been defined industries, meaning that there's no checklist of requirements to make a genre the way it is. People just compare one game/movie/song to another and classify it as such based on personal opinions, knowledge, experiences and even tastes.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 09:26 AM
The ships could arguably be considered the persistent world, as they still exist even when no players are logged in. Many MMO games are split up into multiple lobbies or channels for performance reasons.

I think you're taking the MMO definition a little too literally. The game doesn't have to even have a persistent world to be considered an MMO. By definition, an MMO game is any online game that supports a very large number of players simultaneously.

Semantics, really.Shin means a persistant open world where normal gameplay takes place. If you can make the lobby into a menu with a chat box without any direct change to regular gameplay then it doesn't really count.

The thing is, people have adopted using the term MMO for any PC based online game that isn't a shooter. There's nothing wrong with that in casual conversation, but the distinction is important in conversations like this because even if we DO use your definition of MMO You run into a huge apples and oranges thing when you say "PSO2 is the best mmo I've played".

There are plenty of online games that aren't MMOs even if they support lots of players, online shooters like Microvolts or S4, MOBAs like LoL and Smite, or or online action games like PSO2, Vindictus, and Elsword. The genres are too far removed from eachother to be lumped to gether outside of the "online" part

That's not to say there aren't action MMOs, just that PSO2 isn't one because it lacks a persistant open world for normal gameplay. Go ahead and use the term MMO coliqualy, I don't care, I'll know what you mean, but don't try to say that the actual definition of the term encompases all these games because that's how terms lose meaning.

Vent
Jul 31, 2014, 09:35 AM
Not the best game in all categories, but the best online game in my opinion. The Phantasy Star series has its own unique style that many other MMOs simply lack. Even if the gameplay is not always as good, the style, environment and players makes up for it. Many MMOs these days are still WoW clones. People who hype up Blade and Soul probably haven't played it yet; it's pretty much Aion with a different combat system that is still repetitive as heck.


In PSO2 I start to fall asleep during Bursts or running from point A to B.

...

You can also tell how involving a game is by whether you can eat meals during it.

Says a lot about the conditions you are in while gaming. :-P

People saying that players get one-shotted for simply mistakes should remember a few things.

First of all one should look at their units. Do you have a 5-slot Gloam + Shield set? Let me guess, you have Mizer Soul + Shoot III + Ability III + Spirita III + Shoot Boost. I don't see any noticeable defensive affix there right?

Next ask anyone whether you should change some of your affixes to have more HP so you don't get one-shot, what answer do you get? Is it "No, just don't get hit"?

So why is getting one-shotted not a problem in general? Because there isn't a death penalty and everyone carries 5 Moon Atomizers around and reviving is child's play.

The problem is not so much that mobs hit too hard, but rather that players are not afraid of dying in the first place. I think they should decrease your quest rank if you die too many times, even if you don't get revived and return to campship.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 09:51 AM
People saying that players get one-shotted for simply mistakes should remember a few things.

First of all one should look at their units. Do you have a 5-slot Gloam + Shield set? Let me guess, you have Mizer Soul + Shoot III + Ability III + Spirita III + Shoot Boost. I don't see any noticeable defensive affix there right?

Next ask anyone whether you should change some of your affixes to have more HP so you don't get one-shot, what answer do you get? Is it "No, just don't get hit"?

So why is getting one-shotted not a problem in general? Because there isn't a death penalty and everyone carries 5 Moon Atomizers around and reviving is child's play.

The problem is not so much that mobs hit too hard, but rather that players are not afraid of dying in the first place. I think they should decrease your quest rank if you die too many times, even if you don't get revived and return to campship.
I'd be perfectly fine with this is affixing/obtaining gear was easier and changing skill trees was more convenient.

As it is right now though your points don't make any sense because inorder to even get that stuff you have to fight things to make money, to even afford that stuff, let alone getting the rare units if you aren't premium.

Scotty T
Jul 31, 2014, 09:54 AM
I've been playing PSO1 since 2001 it was definitely my favourite game for at least a decade.

PSO2 is nothing like it :/ might aswell be named PSUO2

ShinMaruku
Jul 31, 2014, 10:02 AM
Shin means a persistant open world where normal gameplay takes place. If you can make the lobby into a menu with a chat box without any direct change to regular gameplay then it doesn't really count.

The thing is, people have adopted using the term MMO for any PC based online game that isn't a shooter. There's nothing wrong with that in casual conversation, but the distinction is important in conversations like this because even if we DO use your definition of MMO You run into a huge apples and oranges thing when you say "PSO2 is the best mmo I've played".

There are plenty of online games that aren't MMOs even if they support lots of players, online shooters like Microvolts or S4, MOBAs like LoL and Smite, or or online action games like PSO2, Vindictus, and Elsword. The genres are too far removed from eachother to be lumped to gether outside of the "online" part

That's not to say there aren't action MMOs, just that PSO2 isn't one because it lacks a persistant open world for normal gameplay. Go ahead and use the term MMO coliqualy, I don't care, I'll know what you mean, but don't try to say that the actual definition of the term encompases all these games because that's how terms lose meaning.

Exactly. I frown upon people just lumping all games into 'MMO' because 1 the word loses it's meaning and you can be really misleading when you say that. So somebody thinks this game is a MMO.
Where's my macros?!" "This is not a open world, why can't I quest from Zone to zone?" "Where's my professions" and it can go on an on.

This game is an online co-op action RPG let's call it what it is and not lump it in a massive genre that has no meaning. :)

WildarmsRE5
Jul 31, 2014, 10:04 AM
someone call the fire brigade.

I'm too busy in tending to my ships in KanColle.

The Walrus
Jul 31, 2014, 10:47 AM
I'd be perfectly fine with this is affixing/obtaining gear was easier and changing skill trees was more convenient.

As it is right now though your points don't make any sense because inorder to even get that stuff you have to fight things to make money, to even afford that stuff, let alone getting the rare units if you aren't premium.

They could just give us 100% of our subclasses hp like the Taiwan(?) version did.

Enforcer MKV
Jul 31, 2014, 11:06 AM
To be fair I actually think it's a valid discussion for this thread since the distinction matters.

Normally? I'd agree with you. But seriously; the argument has broken out so many times, in so many threads...that a lot of us are just sick of hearing it.

And I'm one of them. And the topic is about it being the best game you've played overall. Not within a specific genre. But then again, this being the place it is the topic was bound to spiral into that old back and forth.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 11:14 AM
Normally? I'd agree with you. But seriously; the argument has broken out so many times, in so many threads...that a lot of us are just sick of hearing it.

And I'm one of them. And the topic is about it being the best game you've played overall. Not within a specific genre. But then again, this being the place it is the topic was bound to spiral into that old back and forth.Even the OP narrowed it down so I don't think there's anything wrong with that specifically, but I agree that it gets brought up at really dumb times. That doesn't mean this is one of those times though.

Vampy
Jul 31, 2014, 11:14 AM
Yikes, this topic went from into an all out war. Guys, mostly everything you stated aren't really flaws in general, they're just personal opinions which can differ from person to person.

Anyway, thanks for your inputs, I just wanted your opinions on the matter.

i'd understand if it was one person stating things they felt were flaws in the game being considered just a personal opinion but when a lot of people come to an agreement there is a bit a.fact to it sure not everyone sees it but it dies not change the fact it's there. I am not asking you to agree with but don't just discredit us and say they are not really flaws. It's not a glitchy mess of a game but still it's not that great a game can function, but still have things that can turn off a gamer. Pso and psu did some things better other things pso2 does better. This.game does not engage me like other series do it is a place holder until the next monster hunter comes out.

I had my fun but those days are long and gone to me there are better games and I rather olay thise than this. I get a game should not be.easy but it should also not dick me around wanting a specifix item to drop or be hours grinding and maybe spent 4-5 mil just to get a 10* to +2 or how about affixing where weapons skills can all be 95% on transfer and all fail or maybe.one does and the otger 4 skills don't forcing me to restart. I should not be punished just for playing the game.

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 11:23 AM
MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online.
Is PSO massively multiplayer? Do you play with hundreds of people in a open persistent world? Nope. That disqualifies it as an MMO.

The player shops.

This game not only has massive multiplayer, it has the best kind of PVP: market PVP.

So fuckin deal wit it. It's an MMO.

Zyrusticae
Jul 31, 2014, 11:36 AM
Pshaw, unless you're doing BCT5-9 or EX primals, you totally can zone the hell out in FFXIV, even as tank. You do something enough times, and it just doesn't require any thought. Before I quit, I was pretty much sleepwalking through everything but T5, and that basically required that you commit everything to muscle memory anyway since any nontrivial mistake was a wipe (now you have echo buff, though, you lazy sods).

Anyway, to the point, PSO2 is the best action MMO I've played, though I have yet to touch B&S. However, I think action-MMOs are still getting their legs, and PSO2 is going to look really dated in terms of design in 5 years.It's weird because it's exactly as you said. FFXIV isn't exactly a mechanically intense game (aside from those high-level encounters), but for some reason I'm just more engaged in it than I ever am in PSO2.

I think the fact that I'm perfectionist in one game but not the other (I actually parse my DPS in FFXIV and try to improve my numbers as much as I can) may have something to do with that. PSO2 is more a game I fuck around with to see how much of a badass I can be.

In PSO2 I start to fall asleep during Bursts or running from point A to B. Some of my friends also doze off at the same times.
It's really obvious because we start endlessly running into walls.

In BnS I fall asleep pretty much everywhere outside of the last two floors of Mushin Tower.
Probably because the boss AI there glitches so much that I'm too angry to fall asleep.
"Think you're gonna beat me, huh!? How about I become completely invincible for absolutely no reason, and for such a long time that it becomes completely impossible to beat me! Hah!"
The endgame 24-man dungeon bosses in BnS are especially dull. I even wrote some macros to automate most of the encounters in BnS.
Can't talk about FFXIV as I haven't played it, but it looks like another WoW wannabe.

When I raided in WoW, I used to be able to alt-tab between 3-4 clients to heal, tank, buff and do damage. Without using macros.
I think that says a lot about how much attention was needed from one person playing a single class. No idea what it's like now.

You can also tell how involving a game is by whether you can eat meals during it.That's interesting. You must be geared as fuck in BnS because I couldn't do anything resembling that during my time playing that game. I can believe it tho, because you can get damn near unkillable once you've built up your stats (and with the right build, obv).

I still remember the old beggar/fisherman absolutely wrecking my shit the first time I met him, having to fight him something like a dozen times before eking out a win. And then after hitting level cap and getting geared, I could utterly annihilate him without taking so much as a scratch. I guess that's RPG stat progression for ya.


The player shops.

This game not only has massive multiplayer, it has the best kind of PVP: market PVP.

So fuckin deal wit it. It's an MMO.
Hmmmm.

I can kind of see this. But then the question is, does DOTA 2 become an MMO because it has trading and a marketplace? Or does it have to be a market with in-game currency? That may actually be a useful metric, because there are very few MMORPGs these days that don't have a server-wide marketplace.

DJcooltrainer
Jul 31, 2014, 11:45 AM
The player shops.

This game not only has massive multiplayer, it has the best kind of PVP: market PVP.

So fuckin deal wit it. It's an MMO.

You just blew my mind. Here I've been wanting PVP for PSO2, and I've been playing it the whole time.

SEGAC might as well release a standalone version of visiphone online and just skip the BS.

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 11:59 AM
Hmmmm.

I can kind of see this. But then the question is, does DOTA 2 become an MMO because it has trading and a marketplace? Or does it have to be a market with in-game currency? That may actually be a useful metric, because there are very few MMORPGs these days that don't have a server-wide marketplace.

This is why I dislike the whole label thing.

I couldn't say if DOTA2 qualifies or not, since I haven't played it...but based on that criteria there is indeed an argument to be made.

The thing about genre labels like that is most people use them to describe the feeling evoked when they play. PSO2 feels like an MMO because of how many people you'll see. Back when the term "MMO" was coined the kind of games people say that an MMO has to be didn't even exist yet.

Besides, with all of this genre blurring going on (which is fantastic btw, I love blurred genres) a game isn't just this or just that. A game has several qualities typically associated with this genre, in addition to several from that genre and several more from yet another genre.

So the whole labeling thing is just dated IMO, and people can use the term MMO to describe PSO despite not falling under the strictest of modern definitions.

Gamemako
Jul 31, 2014, 01:31 PM
It's weird because it's exactly as you said. FFXIV isn't exactly a mechanically intense game (aside from those high-level encounters), but for some reason I'm just more engaged in it than I ever am in PSO2.

I think it's a matter of exposure and encounter variety. The thing that FFXIV did so well that kept me playing it through closed beta and over 7 months of release was the effective encounter design. There was a lot of content to test your skill, and while it eventually became repetitive, you'd been practicing that particular encounter for quite some time to get there. It's also part of why I quit -- they designed out the game's best asset, turning it into Grindfest XIV: Farm Your FATE. The other part is SE support staff being a bunch of incompetent fuckwads.

PSO2 has a few strong encounters, but most of the game is farming easy stuff with the exact same mechanics you've been familiar with since you started playing.


Where's my macros?!" "This is not a open world, why can't I quest from Zone to zone?" "Where's my professions" and it can go on an on.

I leveled several jobs to 50 in FFXIV without leaving Limsa. Does that mean FFXIV is not an MMO?

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 01:48 PM
So the whole labeling thing is just dated IMO, and people can use the term MMO to describe PSO despite not falling under the strictest of modern definitions.That's true for actual genres like "fantasy" or "horror", but games get categorized in another way. The mechanics. There's nothing objective about the mechanics. Platforming is what makes something a platformer, being in 1st person and shooting things is what makes something a first person shooter.

I understand that lines get blured a lot, most people wouldn't call the elder scrolls games First Person Shooters even though you can be in first person and shoot things with bows and magic, but that just supports my point even more that the primary gameplay focus should be what defines the genre, not the secondary mechanics. Yes, there's a market in PSO2, but it's not the focus of the gameplay. I'd consider playing the market a "metagame" at best.

Like, I get the idea that MMO has come to coliqually reffer to any online game, but the whole point of these categories is to make it easier for people to find more games they like. If you make it too broad then it doesn't help anyone understand anything. Really I just want there to be clarity. You want PSO2 to be called an MMO? Fine, then GW2 is an open world mmo. I don't care as long as there's a distinction.

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 02:03 PM
That's true for actual genres like "fantasy" or "horror", but games get categorized in another way. The mechanics. There's nothing objective about the mechanics. Platforming is what makes something a platformer, being in 1st person and shooting things is what makes something a first person shooter.

I understand that lines get blured a lot, most people wouldn't call the elder scrolls games First Person Shooters even though you can be in first person and shoot things with bows and magic, but that just supports my point even more that the primary gameplay focus should be what defines the genre, not the secondary mechanics. Yes, there's a market in PSO2, but it's not the focus of the gameplay. I'd consider playing the market a "metagame" at best.

Like, I get the idea that MMO has come to coliqually reffer to any online game, but the whole point of these categories is to make it easier for people to find more games they like. If you make it too broad then it doesn't help anyone understand anything. Really I just want there to be clarity. You want PSO2 to be called an MMO? Fine, then GW2 is an open world mmo. I don't care as long as there's a distinction.

Exactly, which is why I describe PSO2 as a mix between an MMO and a coop RPG. It exhibits traits commonly found in both genres.

I find that these days games are best described with two or more qualifiers, since there's very rarely a game that is purely within the confines of one genre. As you just described with Skyrim, it's clearly fantasy but since it's also first person-oriented (with mediocre third person controls) you couldn't simply describe it as a "fantasy RPG." It's also open world (Which I would define as a standalone genre these days, what with Minecraft and so many other games focused on just plain being open world), mod-friendly (which is a HUGE thing to note because of just how much you can change with mods), etc.

Arkanoid
Jul 31, 2014, 02:08 PM
Is PSO2 one of the best genre label arguments you've ever played?

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 02:10 PM
Is PSO2 one of the best genre label arguments you've ever played?

Argument? This is an argument to you? Nobody's even insulting anybody.

PSO is the only genre label discussion I've ever had. In other games people have enough sense to know what someone means when they say "MMO."

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 02:11 PM
Exactly, which is why I describe PSO2 as a mix between an MMO and a coop RPG. It exhibits traits commonly found in both genres.

I find that these days games are best described with two or more qualifiers, since there's very rarely a game that is purely within the confines of one genre. As you just described with Skyrim, it's clearly fantasy but since it's also first person-oriented (with mediocre third person controls) you couldn't simply describe it as a "fantasy RPG." It's also open world (Which I would define as a standalone genre these days, what with Minecraft and so many other games focused on just plain being open world), mod-friendly (which is a HUGE thing to note because of just how much you can change with mods), etc.Oh, I know games can fit into multiple genres, my point was that I don't consider MMOs to be one that PSO2 fits into. It's definately a multiplayer online game (Which mmos are a subset of obviously), I just don't think it has the qualities that define massively multiplayer games. The part we're disagreeing on is what those qualities are.

The actual name we use doesn't matter to me, as long as there's a distinction between the kind of multiplayer PSO2, Monster Hunter, and Vindictus are, and the kind that WoW, GW2, and The Secret World are.

Arkanoid
Jul 31, 2014, 02:14 PM
Argument? This is an argument to you? Nobody's even insulting anybody.

PSO is the only genre label discussion I've ever had. In other games people have enough sense to know what someone means when they say "MMO."

Ohh you want it like that huh? Well of course it's an MMO because you play it and MMOs are for fatties... fatty!

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 02:15 PM
Oh, I know games can fit into multiple genres, my point was that I don't consider MMOs to be one that PSO2 fits into. It's definately a multiplayer online game (Which mmos are a subset of obviously), I just don't think it has the qualities that define massively multiplayer games. The part we're disagreeing on is what those qualities are.

The actual name we use doesn't matter to me, as long as there's a distinction between the kind of multiplayer PSO2, Monster Hunter, and Vindictus are, and the kind that WoW, GW2, and The Secret World are.

After thinking about it, I realized what ultimately puts PSO2 in the MMO bin for me is that it's purely online, on one single server for its given region. There are multiple ships, but you can't connect to a fan-run server with its own ships. You have to go to the main server for your region. You're blocked from any other region.

That's what does it for me. That and sharing your ship with other people, even despite going into an instanced field.

That's what keeps Team Fortress 2 or Borderlands from being an MMO in my mind. If every single server was run by Valve/Gearbox/2K/whoever in the same physical location, and you had to go through a lobby full of dozens of other players you actually saw to get into a game, then I'd be more inclined to feel that TF2/BL2 was loosely a type of MMO.

Ohh you want it like that huh? Well of course it's an MMO because you play it and MMOs are for fatties... fatty!

I don't understand what you're actually doing right now.

Arkanoid
Jul 31, 2014, 02:18 PM
I don't understand what you're actually doing right now.

I'm messing with you.

But to answer the original topic, I would say that PSO2 is the best sequel to PSO, heheh.

ZeekTheSweet
Jul 31, 2014, 02:21 PM
As a lot have said before me. Not the best game, but a very good MMO. I haven't played to many MMOs so I guess I could say it's the best MMO in my opinion.

The game is simple, fun, looks nice (to an extent), and it's fun to play with other people. Yeah it does hide behind some pay2play factors, but a majority of the stuff I care about (I.E. clothing, tickets, skills, using all classes or changing classes) is all free.

I haven't seen what comes in future updates, but I do hope they add another difficulty or some sort of more strategic quests than just "JUMP,SHOOT,SLASH,WIN,REPEAT" quests. Something other than the Tower Defense series. Also if they were to add those kinds of quests, I hope they're not hidden behind emergencies quests.

Even though I've played like 600+ hours of the game, I really haven't done much with the matter board (only on the 3rd board) so I can't say much about the story. Though I guess that's kind of a good thing, showing that I'm not limited to just one mode to feel like I'm progressing in the game.

This game has only been out for two years, so I hope it's able to keep growing consistantly.

Oh and one last thing, PSO2 probably has the best OST I have heard in an MMO. That gets a lot of points from me.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 02:34 PM
After thinking about it, I realized what ultimately puts PSO2 in the MMO bin for me is that it's purely online, on one single server for its given region. There are multiple ships, but you can't connect to a fan-run server with its own ships. You have to go to the main server for your region. You're blocked from any other region.

That's what does it for me. That and sharing your ship with other people, even despite going into an instanced field.

That's what keeps Team Fortress 2 or Borderlands from being an MMO in my mind. If every single server was run by Valve/Gearbox/2K/whoever in the same physical location, and you had to go through a lobby full of dozens of other players you actually saw to get into a game, then I'd be more inclined to feel that TF2/BL2 was loosely a type of MMO.See, THIS I can understand. I don't neccesserily agree, but I can see that working.

Still though I'm moreworried about the distinction. This is only a sore point for me because I'm tired of all the confusion it causes in people who are trying games when they're used to something else. Or in the case of this thread comparing PSO2 to games that really aren't the same genre.

Maybe I'm autistic or something, but I really like categories to be very well defined and specific instead of broad and vauge.

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 02:38 PM
See, THIS I can understand. I don't neccesserily agree, but I can see that working.

Still though I'm moreworried about the distinction. This is only a sore point for me because I'm tired of all the confusion it causes in people who are trying games when they're used to something else. Or in the case of this thread comparing PSO2 to games that really aren't the same genre.

Maybe I'm autistic or something, but I really like categories to be very well defined and specific instead of broad and vauge.

If PSO2 had ad-hoc play, or offline play, I'd be more inclined to say it's much less like an MMO. If it lacked lobbies this large, and had small ones like PSO did, I'd be inclined to lean that way too.

PSO2 also has mandatory client updates, which is another big MMO flag for me.

That's what keeps Monster Hunter from being an MMO for me despite going online to a single main server - no lobbies with visible players, offline play, DLC is 100% optional, and most importantly it has ad-hoc play.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 02:45 PM
After thinking about it, I realized what ultimately puts PSO2 in the MMO bin for me is that it's purely online, on one single server for its given region. There are multiple ships, but you can't connect to a fan-run server with its own ships. You have to go to the main server for your region. You're blocked from any other region.

That's what does it for me. That and sharing your ship with other people, even despite going into an instanced field.

That's what keeps Team Fortress 2 or Borderlands from being an MMO in my mind. If every single server was run by Valve/Gearbox/2K/whoever in the same physical location, and you had to go through a lobby full of dozens of other players you actually saw to get into a game, then I'd be more inclined to feel that TF2/BL2 was loosely a type of MMO.
What, the reason instanced lobby based games aren't MMOs is because they have fewer restrictions?

As in, PSO2 gains a distinction over similar games with more options?

So Diablo and PSO aren't MMOs because they have an offline mode. Or if any indisputably traditional MMORPG were to officially sanction private servers, they wouldn't technically be an MMORPG anymore, even if they had a centralized cash shop and you could freely transfer to and from the official servers.

Game rooms are not channels you can freely switch between. You can't be questing in Forest and happen to come across someone else playing on the same map unless they specifically joined your particular group. Unless others deliberately leave your personal game room, nobody else can pop in. That's not playing simultaneously, that's playing separately. That's what makes it lose the Massive label for me.

The only thing that's like an MMO is the lobby, but that's just a glorified chat room.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 02:46 PM
If PSO2 had ad-hoc play, or offline play, I'd be more inclined to say it's much less like an MMO. If it lacked lobbies this large, and had small ones like PSO did, I'd be inclined to lean that way too.

PSO2 also has mandatory client updates, which is another big MMO flag for me.

That's what keeps Monster Hunter from being an MMO for me despite going online to a single main server - no lobbies with visible players, offline play, DLC is 100% optional, and most importantly it has ad-hoc play.To me it's whether or not those things are required for the main gameplay to function. As I said before, you could completely remove the lobby, replace it with a menu, and the fundamentals of the game wouldn't change. Still though, it doesn't matter to me as long as we make a point to differentiate these kinds of games from other "mmos" and vice verca. :/

Also you reminded me of something completely unrelated with the offline talk. Playing God Eater made me realize how shit the friend partner AI is. Like... It's REALLY bad. I kinda want them to fix it. It would certainly make me less sore about the whole dying really easily solo thing if npcs could at least watch my back.

Zyrusticae
Jul 31, 2014, 02:47 PM
Oh and one last thing, PSO2 probably has the best OST I have heard in an MMO. That gets a lot of points from me.
https://fjfsca.dm2301.livefilestore.com/y2pluypYmXebOcyH4E2Xi-NVPtKKQeKt9KNJNo3clhNSm2avYuA_1F6xemgxbLHR6IiZGnnu ul9tF-T0_nCoBb_Fsd9vFBAkGs_NZIL3NAQEy0/1397784856424.png?psid=1

Educate yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZZDnlAg3Pk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38ACAg1XAv8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-N7uPo5A8M

Even among the bubble that is MMORPG soundtracks, PSO2 isn't in the top 3 for me. It has some nice tracks, sure, but they are extremely few and far between, scattered here and there among the white noise that is most of the OST.

Of course, there is no accounting for taste, and it may be that your tastes simply run anathema to mine... but I just can't hear much in the way of quality in the soundtrack as it sounds.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 02:49 PM
I'm not allowed to talk about game soundtracks because I like Mabi's music...

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 02:52 PM
https://fjfsca.dm2301.livefilestore.com/y2pluypYmXebOcyH4E2Xi-NVPtKKQeKt9KNJNo3clhNSm2avYuA_1F6xemgxbLHR6IiZGnnu ul9tF-T0_nCoBb_Fsd9vFBAkGs_NZIL3NAQEy0/1397784856424.png?psid=1

Educate yourself:
FFXIV OST - Ultima Weapon Theme - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZZDnlAg3Pk)
Aion OST - Sillus Mountains - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38ACAg1XAv8)
[Blade & Soul] Blade & Soul 2.0 Original Soundtrack - Silverfrost Mountain (Main Theme) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-N7uPo5A8M)

Even among the bubble that is MMORPG soundtracks, PSO2 isn't in the top 3 for me. It has some nice tracks, sure, but they are extremely few and far between, scattered here and there among the white noise that is most of the OST.

Of course, there is no accounting for taste, and it may be that your tastes simply run anathema to mine... but I just can't hear much in the way of quality in the soundtrack as it sounds.

And let's not forget quality ambiance
https://soundcloud.com/ccpgames/sets/eve-online-in-game-tracks
>6 hours of ambient space music developed over the course of more than a decade
People joke that Eve has no sound, but god damn does it if you want to just chill out.

isCasted
Jul 31, 2014, 03:12 PM
FFXIV OST - Ultima Weapon Theme - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZZDnlAg3Pk)
Aion OST - Sillus Mountains - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38ACAg1XAv8)
[Blade & Soul] Blade & Soul 2.0 Original Soundtrack - Silverfrost Mountain (Main Theme) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-N7uPo5A8M)

Honestly... If those are best tracks those games can offer, then it only confirms superiority of PSO2 in that matter for me.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 03:16 PM
What's so good about PSO2's music? Only thing that stands out to me, that isn't copied from somewhere else, is Sanctum's random assortment minus the dubstep segment.

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 03:17 PM
What's so good about PSO2's music? Only thing that stands out to me, that isn't copied from somewhere else, is Sanctum's random assortment minus the dubstep segment.

Ah yes, Sanctum; AKA: Let's imitate the vibes given off by Portal 2's entire OST.

Arkanoid
Jul 31, 2014, 03:25 PM
What's so good about PSO2's music? Only thing that stands out to me, that isn't copied from somewhere else, is Sanctum's random assortment minus the dubstep segment.

What is being copied from somewhere else? Unless you mean previous Phantasy Star games, in which case Sanctum actually does have a part from another game lol.

Zyrusticae
Jul 31, 2014, 03:26 PM
Honestly... If those are best tracks those games can offer, then it only confirms superiority of PSO2 in that matter for me.
Yeah, that confirms it, then. Your taste is fucking weird even in the context of PSO2 fans.

I don't understand how people can so much enjoy PSO2's meandering, seemingly directionless musical aesethetic. It's weird, man. The boss themes I can understand, but the soundtrack as a whole?

But yeah, music is subjective. Oh, well.

Edit: Just for fairness' sake, more tracks since only posting one track from an entire soundtrack can be misrepresentative:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDG1rIz1S7k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM7yQyHmUVU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qpmanW1Sa8

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 03:28 PM
I'm sorry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBQIK37dcFg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36vqsc61UA4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94BAYmDokn8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLBL8zJHzYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COhXgaq6Tks


Yeah, that confirms it, then. Your taste is fucking weird even in the context of PSO2 fans.

I don't understand how people can so much enjoy PSO2's meandering, seemingly directionless musical aesethetic. It's weird, man. The boss themes I can understand, but the soundtrack as a whole?

But yeah, music is subjective. Oh, well.
The OST versions are more coherent, but I agree, being random makes the field music really unmemorable. The only ones I particularly like are Quarry and Coast.

minim
Jul 31, 2014, 03:29 PM
I hate PSO2's music mostly, and i hate myself for missing PSU. :ducky:

blace
Jul 31, 2014, 03:32 PM
After playing PSO2 for a few years, the only music that I actually hear was only during the Falz Arms fight. And that was just a cluster of loud blaring sounds.

Other than that I don't really notice the music.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 03:36 PM
What is being copied from somewhere else? Unless you mean previous Phantasy Star games, in which case Sanctum actually does have a part from another game lol.
Mostly just the music discs, I guess. Or lobby themes. A lot of the areas have at least one segment that's supposed to resemble something from the past series.

I usually just have the BGM muted now, though

And voices too if I've recently done an XQ

ReverseSeraf
Jul 31, 2014, 03:36 PM
Oh, are we sharing music, now?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5kjUuw7Is


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2jTZzEYd-Q


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmqYZ0tweHw


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F3DYvUOIUY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoBAUFoBkUc

EDIT:

How could I forget my favorite boss:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJlTBn3Q5oY

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 03:38 PM
Oh, are we sharing music, now?

Craftsman Colru (Extended) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d5kjUuw7Is)

Ingkells (Extended) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2jTZzEYd-Q)

Ancient Dragon (Extended) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmqYZ0tweHw)

Crom Cruach (Super Extended) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F3DYvUOIUY)

Vindictus]BGM-pvp arena battle - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoBAUFoBkUc)I love vindictus's sound track. It's a shame Devcat has such an addiction to loudness. A lot of it clips like crazy. Some Mabi tracks have the same problem I:

minim
Jul 31, 2014, 03:39 PM
The default ARKS Lobby, My Room, and team room BGMs in PSO2 are amazing, though. I could also listen to the camp ship BGM all day

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 03:41 PM
DAY DAWNS

HNNNNNNNNGH

it is actually a chill track though

Arkanoid
Jul 31, 2014, 03:44 PM
Yeah, that confirms it, then. Your taste is fucking weird even in the context of PSO2 fans.

I don't understand how people can so much enjoy PSO2's meandering, seemingly directionless musical aesethetic. It's weird, man. The boss themes I can understand, but the soundtrack as a whole?

But yeah, music is subjective. Oh, well.


But those songs you're linking are basically from different types of games, it goes back to that argument over what type of MMO PSO2 is or if it's even an MMO at all. Of course Final Fantasy is going to have some good battle themes, but the other songs are made for wandering around and exploring some big field. I don't see where music like that would fit anywhere in PSO2.

Here I love this song in GW2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU69IwnF_ZI

But I wouldn't just dump that into PSO2's tundra or something unless there was some exploration mode or a big town to walk around in. Speaking of GW2 I hate how they reused so much of GW1's soundtrack. PSO2 tries way too many times to stick some part of an old song into the music, but I wish GW2 did something like that instead of straight up reusing music for like half the soundtrack.

ReverseSeraf
Jul 31, 2014, 03:48 PM
I love vindictus's sound track. It's a shame Devcat has such an addiction to loudness. A lot of it clips like crazy. Some Mabi tracks have the same problem I:

Eh, at least they got it right with the volume in terms of epicness xD

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 03:49 PM
Speaking of Tundra, this is the only music I remember from Cabal Online:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TgTyGu7J3Q

Actually the desert one was pretty good too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i80N6UFB8OA

Chigun
Jul 31, 2014, 03:50 PM
I love PSO2's music. Being a very prolific VGM listener, I might even say PSO1 and 2 music is the best I've ever heard. Well I admit I have some visual novels in mind that do beat it.

But music is subjective, as was just mentioned earlier. So no matter.

Anyway, the whole deal with the music changing based on there being an enemy near or not can be tolerable since you at least know to expect it. On the other hand, since enemies are so darn numerous and frequent, I find it hard to ever get to listen to "peaceful" segments very long at all.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 03:51 PM
If we're talking about which PSO2 music we like, then I also like the character creation theme that doesn't play anywhere else but should play when you're changing your character's looks but doesn't because sega is the devil. Fuck. I:


But those songs you're linking are basically from different types of games, it goes back to that argument over what type of MMO PSO2 is or if it's even an MMO at all. Of course Final Fantasy is going to have some good battle themes, but the other songs are made for wandering around and exploring some big field. I don't see where music like that would fit anywhere in PSO2.

Here I love this song in GW2
Guild Wars 2 - Hoelbrak Norn SoundTrack 01 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU69IwnF_ZI)

But I wouldn't just dump that into PSO2's tundra or something unless there was some exploration mode or a big town to walk around in. Speaking of GW2 I hate how they reused so much of GW1's soundtrack. PSO2 tries way too many times to stick some part of an old song into the music, but I wish GW2 did something like that instead of straight up reusing music for like half the soundtrack.I don't see what game genres have to do with music quality. You could argue that the music genres from different games aren't the same though.

Also on the topic of GW2. This is my favorite track from it. It's so adventurous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UniOGEmUZQ

Zyrusticae
Jul 31, 2014, 03:52 PM
But those songs you're linking are basically from different types of games, it goes back to that argument over what type of MMO PSO2 is or if it's even an MMO at all. Of course Final Fantasy is going to have some good battle themes, but the other songs are made for wandering around and exploring some big field. I don't see where music like that would fit anywhere in PSO2.
That is funny, because there are exploration themes for every single field type in PSO2.

Speaking of exploration themes, FFXIV also does a thing where it has a battle version and an exploration version of tracks, though it only does this for certain dungeons. Still, it's a very nice implementation of it as it sounds a LOT better than PSO2's version. Maybe not as varied, but I'm less worried about variety and more (MUCH more) concerned with musical aesthetics in any case.

I really like the Sympathy system in concept, but in practice it feels like the composer's had to walk around too many eggshells in getting it to work for him.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 03:54 PM
Speaking of Tundra, this is the only music I remember from Cabal Online:
cabal maptheme- Bloody Ice - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TgTyGu7J3Q)
My favorite thing about Cabal was all the music by NovaSonic.



I really like the Sympathy system in concept, but in practice it feels like the composer's had to walk around too many eggshells in getting it to work for him.I feel like it's purpuse (randomizing the music) is completely antithesis to creating memorable music. Because it's random, it's harder to remember all the parts. Plenty of games have already done the whole "different music plays when you do different stuff" thing, including past phantasy star games, so I don't see why they had to complicate it by being random on top of that. They did it better with the Oracle music just shifting to a slightly different version though, and I LOVE the concept of PSE burst music.

Arkanoid
Jul 31, 2014, 04:06 PM
That is funny, because there are exploration themes for every single field type in PSO2.

Speaking of exploration themes, FFXIV also does a thing where it has a battle version and an exploration version of tracks, though it only does this for certain dungeons. Still, it's a very nice implementation of it as it sounds a LOT better than PSO2's version. Maybe not as varied, but I'm less worried about variety and more (MUCH more) concerned with musical aesthetics in any case.

I really like the Sympathy system in concept, but in practice it feels like the composer's had to walk around too many eggshells in getting it to work for him.

Yeah there are exploration themes but they sound similar to the combat music - probably to work with the Sympathy system, but yeah that system really doesn't work out as well as it should. PSO1's system was much simpler but seems to have worked much better.

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 04:22 PM
I was actually talking to a friend of mine the other day about the concept


HORSE!!: further proof nobody puts effort into videogam anymore: Tie Fighter had 142 different midi files that would get strung together based on what's happening and where, so they would (mostly) seamlessly play together like a film score
UnLuckyCat: now they either do that kind of thing except randomly piece 3-4 parts together
UnLuckyCat: or there's just like "night version" of the same song
HORSE!!: there's like 13 different intros for when the rebels do something

Gardios
Jul 31, 2014, 04:30 PM
Composing Midis is also much quicker. :V

Nitro Vordex
Jul 31, 2014, 04:30 PM
The best? God no. I like the combat, because I like Action RPG combat. It's definitely something that fills a spot in my gaming heart. Is it the best game I've ever played? In terms of Action RPG (real time combat), I'd say it's close. That's mostly due to a lack of actual Action RPG combat like this. Vindictus is definitely fun, though it got grindy as most games are prone to do. PSO1 had its own flavor, but it's still action RPG which I enjoy.

I'll come back to this, as it's the only three games I can actually think of at the moment.

ZeekTheSweet
Jul 31, 2014, 04:35 PM
Glad I got a discussion on MMO music started.

Like I said, I don't play to many MMOs. So PSO2's soundtrack definitely kicks the crap out of games like fucking maplestory and elsword.

Also not all tracks are great in PSO2, I can understand that, but I like the constant excitement of some songs like coast theme, falz luther, falz hands, tower defense, etc.

Granted there are some weird ones like sanctuary with its random wubbetry and amduscia volcanoes' fairly boring theme. But, if the game doesn't make me shut off the music in its entirety so I can listen to my own; I think it does a pretty good job in terms of a soundtrack.

That's just me though, I'm not trying to say it's THE BEST SOUNDTRACK, just the best I've heard. Seriously thanks for the vids, love listening to this stuff.

ShinMaruku
Jul 31, 2014, 04:52 PM
Anybody who calls DOTA2 a MMO kills me. XD You guys are making that term MMO meaningless and in this market place that's bad, the average MMO player makes PSO2 people look like saints Then you have MOBAs who have special people. :P

Dark Matter
Jul 31, 2014, 05:01 PM
I'm waaay too late to say and I already guess that a number of people have said the same but here it is again.

OP the question you asked was too general. You gotta set a parameter of limitation or you'll end up with everyone remembering every game theyve ever played, then they'll end up comparing the 2 of them. Then they'll mention aspects in their games that pso2 may not even have yet. Even comparing the osts in games can in differ in scenario, genre and application of the song. I feel it would have been better to ask a question when it came to games of the phantasy star series comparison of positive additions and negative additions, positive removals and negative removals. I find this all really comes down to taste and preference all over again in a way because with the original ps series that has gone from 2D to 3D it would take allot of investigation and time. when just comparing it just with pso1 think of the changes that were made from that to this.


Personally I like pso2 but I cant call it the best for many reasons
1. The game is still facing development in its mechnics.
2. The story isnt even finished.
3. The balance is still being determined among classes and future provisions.
4. When compared with all games there's too many to really to compare.


There is one thing I can always stand behind in the PS series and that's because of the originality that goes through
each game from costume to character and the collaborations its had people may brush off these changes
but I doubt people really need a "donut steel" reskin to feel good but there are people who would happily
accept it cause they hate dramatic change its not a good thing or bad thing in moderation.

Im happy you like pso2 though OP :)

Aussei
Jul 31, 2014, 05:23 PM
PSO2 is awesome if you don't have a stick shoved up your ass while you play it. You guys should try it sometime.

Dark Matter
Jul 31, 2014, 05:25 PM
Also.. Take pride in the games you like even if it can be see as a "guilty pleasure"
type of game as long as you like the game it shouldnt matter about the judgement
of others let them play theirs and you play yours.

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 05:26 PM
Why are you spoilering everything you say? It's really annoying. I:

ZeekTheSweet
Jul 31, 2014, 05:30 PM
I'm waaay too late to say and I already guess that a number of people have said the same but here it is again.

OP the question you asked was too general. You gotta set a parameter of limitation or you'll end up with everyone remembering every game theyve ever played, then they'll end up comparing the 2 of them. Then they'll mention aspects in their games that pso2 may not even have yet. Even comparing the osts in games can in differ in scenario, genre and application of the song. I feel it would have been better to ask a question when it came to games of the phantasy star series comparison of positive additions and negative additions, positive removals and negative removals. I find this all really comes down to taste and preference all over again in a way because with the original ps series that has gone from 2D to 3D it would take allot of investigation and time. when just comparing it just with pso1 think of the changes that were made from that to this.


Personally I like pso2 but I cant call it the best for many reasons
1. The game is still facing development in its mechnics.
2. The story isnt even finished.
3. The balance is still being determined among classes and future provisions.
4. When compared with all games there's too many to really to compare.


There is one thing I can always stand behind in the PS series and that's because of the originality that goes through
each game from costume to character and the collaborations its had people may brush off these changes
but I doubt people really need a "donut steel" reskin to feel good but there are people who would happily
accept it cause they hate dramatic change its not a good thing or bad thing in moderation.

Im happy you like pso2 though OP :)

So much for reading this on my phone...

UnLucky
Jul 31, 2014, 05:31 PM
Anybody who calls DOTA2 a MMO kills me. XD You guys are making that term MMO meaningless and in this market place that's bad, the average MMO player makes PSO2 people look like saints Then you have MOBAs who have special people. :P
DotA's not an MMO, but SMITE totally is for very minor reasons that don't actually serve to differentiate anything!


Why are you spoilering everything you say? It's really annoying. I:
It's the closest he can get to neon green letters on a light blue background.

Dark Matter
Jul 31, 2014, 05:34 PM
Why are you spoilering everything you say? It's really annoying. I:

There are large groups of people that are very sensitive to see the topic of certain games
in comparisons so im walking on eggsheels not to accidently trip someones radar.

to consider the feelings of others in a way.

Cyron Tanryoku
Jul 31, 2014, 05:35 PM
PSO2 is awesome if you don't have a stick shoved up your ass while you play it. You guys should try it sometime.
She said with a stick shoved up her ass


dont be that person

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 05:35 PM
It's the closest he can get to neon green letters on a light blue background.
http://i.imgur.com/OB31y3B.png


There are large groups of people that are very sensitive to see the topic of certain games
in comparisons so im walking on eggsheels not to accidently trip someone radar.

to consider the feelings of others in a way.
No one's getting offended. If you're worried about people dissagreeing with you then just don't state your opinion at all.

Dark Matter
Jul 31, 2014, 05:50 PM
neon green?
http://i.imgur.com/ALVb3s5.png

Anyways im not affraid of dissagreements because this is the internet where dissagreements will always happen and people are entitled to diffrence in opinon.

Edit: i'll just remove the spoilers.

gigawuts
Jul 31, 2014, 06:01 PM
http://i.imgur.com/OB31y3B.png


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMkrk2MJYrg

edit:
Also to make those spoiler tags easier to read just get a client-side CSS edity thing and drop this in there

font[style*="color: black; background: black;"]:hover {
color: #DDDDDD;
}
It leaves it black until you hover your mouse over it (because hovering your cursor over it and reading white on black is less disgusting than white on blue and having to actually select it)

Shiyo
Jul 31, 2014, 06:06 PM
Best f2p MMO I've ever played with 1 complaint. I'm IP blocked and have to use amazon to connect for the rest of my life which will end up costing like ~$13/month on top of prem.

So dumb.

The Walrus
Jul 31, 2014, 06:06 PM
You could always just save your money and stop playing

Demon-
Jul 31, 2014, 06:16 PM
If you're worried about people dissagreeing with you then the internet isn't for you.

fixed

Kondibon
Jul 31, 2014, 06:40 PM
I dunno, it just seems counterproductive to try and avoid offending some people by making things inconvenient for all of them. Especially when you don't actually mind if people disagree with you.
EDIT: You could have used the spoiler boxes instead of the text spoilers.


fixed
How is it fixed? I wasn't just talking about the internet.

Freshellent
Jul 31, 2014, 10:31 PM
I'm not allowed to talk about game soundtracks because I like Mabi's music...

I wish I could enjoy that game as much as you do. I played it a fair amount with friends and I can't rightly call it a bad game, but it just never stuck with me.

Huh, after reading/listening to everyone's posts about music it made me think back on tracks in particular I liked. I'm very guilty of believing the music in WoW is literally some of the best in any MMO I've ever played. They nailed it in so many zones it's almost scary to me. Even the simple Inn music is something I instantly perk up to.

I'm also guilty of absolutely loving Ragnarok Online music. They did such a good job in some places, preRenewal at least. Eh, even after, come to think of it.


Speaking of games I wish I liked, PSO2. I've already rambled about it but looking over my screenshots and reading PMs from friends that still play bums me out in a way. My own problems aside, I always felt PSO2 was missing something. At first I was very charmed by it, but as time went on it grew more and more distant to me. I think hunting rares is one of the things I missed from PSU.

Despite having shitty drop rates and really horrible crafting RNG- I got things to show up... eventually. Unless you count another Grand Cross board, goddammit those last few months I still never got another one. I think I'm one of those people that needs to have something to search for in my games. Unless it's a fighting game, in which I just need more people to crush or be crushed by. Being really competitive helps for that.

Gardios
Jul 31, 2014, 10:59 PM
I'm also guilty of absolutely loving Ragnarok Online music. They did such a good job in some places, preRenewal at least. Eh, even after, come to think of it.
For real. SoundTeMP's tracks are amazing, no matter the game. So much variety, like seriously who'd expect both of those tracks to be in the same game?!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwK8tWncryU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Mwrln3LYs

I'm so happy they're doing music for ToS...

keywen
Aug 1, 2014, 02:13 PM
I think the most important distinction is the difference between an RPG and an MMORPG, which people in this thread are pointing out. So I'll take your question as the MMO standpoint.

I LOVE THIS GAME. The biggest issue for me, as a student, is having trouble dropping a game for a month or two to focus on school. In games like WoW, FFXI(V), etc., people rely on you to show up for raids, bosses, etc.. PSO2 does none of that, you play the game at your own pace and it's dungeon system doesn't lock you into logging on and keeping track of boss spawn windows, claim wars, treasure pools, etc. It appeals to the casual and the hardcore at the same time, which is amazing.

Also, the combat system is fantastic. There are some balance tweaks that need to be in place. But, it seems like the vast majority of these are being addressed. Also, discovering the game and learning the combos that worked for me was one of the most rewarding experiences I've had in a game.

It's exactly what I'm looking for in a game, that's all.

gigawuts
Aug 1, 2014, 04:26 PM
I wish I could enjoy that game as much as you do. I played it a fair amount with friends and I can't rightly call it a bad game, but it just never stuck with me.

Huh, after reading/listening to everyone's posts about music it made me think back on tracks in particular I liked. I'm very guilty of believing the music in WoW is literally some of the best in any MMO I've ever played. They nailed it in so many zones it's almost scary to me. Even the simple Inn music is something I instantly perk up to.

I'm also guilty of absolutely loving Ragnarok Online music. They did such a good job in some places, preRenewal at least. Eh, even after, come to think of it.


Speaking of games I wish I liked, PSO2. I've already rambled about it but looking over my screenshots and reading PMs from friends that still play bums me out in a way. My own problems aside, I always felt PSO2 was missing something. At first I was very charmed by it, but as time went on it grew more and more distant to me. I think hunting rares is one of the things I missed from PSU.

Despite having shitty drop rates and really horrible crafting RNG- I got things to show up... eventually. Unless you count another Grand Cross board, goddammit those last few months I still never got another one. I think I'm one of those people that needs to have something to search for in my games. Unless it's a fighting game, in which I just need more people to crush or be crushed by. Being really competitive helps for that.

PSO2 lacks sufficient diversity, in both weapon selection and play area selection.

Would any of us have actually enjoyed PSO1 if it didn't have so many different weapons to hunt, or so many quests with different layouts that we could learn?

I know I wouldn't have. I treated PSO1 like a selection of game boards to be played, with items to find in each one. Each game board served a different purpose based on what spawned and how long runs would take. This was what most people I knew who enjoyed PSO1 did as well, just maybe not so studiously.

PSO2 failed to be a sequel to the successful attributes of PSO1, which is why a lot of long-standing PS fans were bummed out by it (same issues with PSU - the art style was a more personal gripe that not everyone had, but the lack of content was a virtually universal gripe) while new entrants to the series didn't care because that's not what they came here seeking.

Even with the awful droprates in PSO2 I would've been A-OK with that part of the meta if the weapons actually did something. After all, you could just get most of these items via the player shops. Finding the exact same weapon with a new skin and 5-20% more damage under X circumstances just doesn't cut it.

Most of the weapons that did behave differently were imbalanced too; For example, the Guld Milla should not have healed you for PA damage. It meant it was either far too good, or essentially useless, depending on the circumstances. There was no middle area, which is where it should have existed (one alternative could've been 20% hp absorb for only normal attacks, or only up to 99% hp, or something like that).

But I've been saying for over a year now that I expect them to begin implementing actually unique weapons in Ultimate, and not before - and it looks like that may be the case with PAs tied to weapons in the near future. Of course, I also expected Ultimate to be out for at least 4 months by now, so eh.

elryan
Aug 1, 2014, 10:58 PM
The best game? Nope.

The best MMO? Absolutely. Nothing came close to this game combat and net engine.

silo1991
Aug 1, 2014, 11:13 PM
best mmo yes , and i would consider the best online game if wasnt for the weekly maintenance of 2GB or more which takes me half day to download

ClothoBuer
Aug 2, 2014, 07:21 AM
The thing about PSO2 is that it's a love/hate relationship. You love it because it's got enough to do to keep playing, but you hate it because there's so much it does wrong, and so much it could do better.

In the realm of F2Ps, it's a fair game, cash shop is well-stocked and maintained in a way that keeps it from becoming pay-to-win, but with enough incentive to invest in it. Sega is doing a decent job of pumping consistent amounts of new things into the game to keep it mostly fresh and interesting, which is good in that it shows they're committed. However, in the realm of ARPGs, it comes up well short in several key areas. Combat is relatively fluid and well-paced, but plagued by poor mob AI and generic attack patterns, generally cookie-cutter weapon classes and abilities, and basically no real game modes outside of "kill X amount of Y within Z time". Stats are more or less trivial and lack the needed impact on gameplay they should have, and the skill trees are, in their current form, a clusterfuck, and thankfully are being overhauled in Episode 3. Equipment leveling and affixing is about as fun as pulling teeth, and is made mostly unnecessary by the distinct lack of any sort of endgame content.

In summary, right now the game's okay and you can find some modicum of enjoyment, but it needs better AI, more engaging fights/game modes, and BADLY needs some type of endgame content.

Amberpelt
Aug 2, 2014, 11:02 AM
best game....hm...

considering i've played mabinogi from its beta, its hard to call PSO2 the best without a real open world part or stuff like fishing/cooking/ tailoring and so on.

Mabinogi just has alot more in it than just combat.

i love PSO2, i really do. but i'd have to say that for now, its in 2nd. if they added an open world mission where its not an enclosed environment or dungeon setting, then it might get in first

but it could really do with a clothe/weapon crafting thing or a fishing minigame.

pkemr4
Aug 2, 2014, 11:14 AM
its a tie between this and imagine online tbh.

Lostbob117
Aug 2, 2014, 11:32 AM
Nah, I've played so many better games.

Tyaph
Aug 2, 2014, 12:00 PM
I would say it's probably the best instanced MMO I have ever played, for sure. But definitely not the best game I have ever played in general, no.

Laxedrane
Aug 2, 2014, 03:21 PM
The thing about PSO2 is that it's a love/hate relationship. You love it because it's got enough to do to keep playing, but you hate it because there's so much it does wrong, and so much it could do better.

I have felt for the long time this quote from Maria Bamford best summarizes the relationship most players of PSO2 have with the game that post on PSO world.

"My agent is always super hype and says things like: Maria your amazing, your genius, you everything we've been looking for then it's gone and I am bored and I am irritated. Now I just wanna get a cup of coffee or something to eat.. But then I don't know what you did or didn't do but I am BACK IN AGAIN!And your Superlative! And your Hyperbole! And your a polar bear in the jungle! And your a giant! Eating a giant bowl of jello within another GIANT! And then it's gone.. GET OUT! GET OUT OF MY OFFICE!"

Maria Bamford, On "How to win."

Just replace maria with PSO and you got how most people feel about the game.

Miyuki_Kamiko
Aug 3, 2014, 03:04 AM
no it's not will i say it's decent yes but is there alot of things done wrong yes
for an MMO id give it an 8 out of 10

A. Zerran
Aug 6, 2015, 08:45 PM
Ah....PSO2... (Incoming wall of text)

What can I say about the game that hasn't been already said? It's not the best game I've ever played, no, but it's certainly not a bad game. When I first played it, I loved the hell out of it, but now...? Ohhh boy...

No. I don't love it as much, and I'm looking at it in an objective stance from a series fan for more than 5 years now. Honestly, I think Portable 2 has far less restrictions compared to PSO2, such as the high amount of weapon variance and the strategies that you can pull off with them, or the upgrading system. It's like it's trying to be a hybrid between PSU's, Portable's, and Zero's, but it just leads up to Dudu (or Monica) taking a large chunk of your Meseta before you even grind your weapon (armor units are too easy to grind in most cases so I won't mention those) to +10, and then unlock the potential to do it all over again!

*Ahem* Sorry, going on a tangent. This is a very flawed game, and the combat system appears to be heavily inspired by games very much like Bayonetta, Vanquish, Metal Gear Rising, and Devil May Cry, although as Zyrusticae said, it's just not quite on that same level, and if you ask me, I think Zyrusticae has a point. The game would play better if the developers were given time to make the full leap. I can say this with some solid studying, too, since I've been playing all of these said games, and I've seen the very close similarities and inspirations that PSO2 draws from.

The statements that Kondibon have made, however, are also something I've read and took into consideration. After pondering about it, I think Kondibon has a very good point too. There are a few similarities to Monster Hunter and perhaps God Eater, those I can see as clear as day. But I still think Zyrusticae is right that you should have been able to have a dedicated move list and having combos that can be performed with different attack timings.

I'll even further my point by saying the game would benefit from running 20% faster (DMC3/4 Turbo Mode anyone?), as it would greatly enhance the experience and give more of a reason to have an immediate weapon switching system, as the weapon system in this game is a bit cumbersome...in retrospect to Portable/Portable 2 (or infinity if you played that), which had weapon switching that was instant, and easy to access (and that was a PSP game!). PSO2's system is...moderatle above average and works nicely most of the time, but annoying nonetheless.

A huge, HUGE problem PSO2 suffers from is, no matter how high your framerate is for the game, character animations are somewhat sluggish, clunky, and can look unfinished at times. This pushes what Zyrusticae said even further, and I'm honestly surprised that I am not the only one who thinks these things. That is a massive flaw and that needs to be fixed. That's one of the things that keeps me from really loving the game a lot.

And really, the best things I have to say about the game that are objectively good, are the customization options, the Photon Arts and Technique Variants, the Japanese voice acting for many characters (I really like Jozsef, Klotho, Astarte, Regius, Maria, Gettemhart, and Lisa, though Lisa herself creeps me out), the enemy variety, the way some weapons work (I love how TPSC revamped Spears/Partizans and Gunblades in the game), and the Emergency Quests, especially Magatsu. Damn, is it fun...when you have competent Weak Bullet using Rangers and at least one Bouncer.

TL;DR version: PSO2 can be fun for the right person, but it is a heavily flawed video game. And not just as an Action Game. As an Action Role Playing Game that has MMO elements and is trying hard at times to ape a Spectacle Fighter and maybe games like God Eater or Monster Hunter. If I had to give the game a score, it'd be a 6 out of 10. If I'd put myself back in the hardcore fanboy seat I'd probably say "OMG BEST MMO EVER, 10 OUT OF 10!", but I won't, because that isn't who I am, and that doesn't really tell anyone anything. Thanks for reading.

wefwq
Aug 6, 2015, 09:19 PM
You must be really bored to necro such old thread.

Kondibon
Aug 6, 2015, 09:26 PM
I can't imagine any good that can come from reviving this thread...

TaigaUC
Aug 6, 2015, 09:33 PM
PSO2 IS BESTEST GAME EVARrrarrrrrrr

/sarcasm

Sinon
Aug 6, 2015, 09:37 PM
Best waifu simulator.

the_importer_
Aug 7, 2015, 07:10 AM
You must be really bored to necro such old thread.

No kidding, that's the 2nd old topic of mine that someone has revived.

neilp4453
Aug 7, 2015, 09:38 AM
I wouldn't go as far to say the best game. The game is great but without content updates, replayability would diminish.

As far as MMO or Online RPGs, hell yea! After the end of PSU, I've tried out other MMOs and I've come to realize I hate the tank, DPS, healer games. It seems a lot of them are based off of that model. I played WoW and Final Fantasy: XIV extensively just to realize I don't like them.

In comparison to PSU, the game def. improved a lot. Customization was always huge, but PSO2 allows more than just cosmetic customization. With PSU, there was the obvious way to play (in terms of time attacks). With PSO2, there is a lot room to play around.

Quests keep the game a bit fresh while leveling up. Rather than running the hotspot over and over again, I'm all over the place trying to get extra XP. It was such a drag running White Beast and the likes over and over again in PSU.

Lack of loot boxes def. takes away from the heart racing moments though. Going from box to box to find a weapon or board and not knowing whether it was actually going to be good or not was crazy. Synthing fighter weapons hoping for that 42%+ was insane. PSO2 takes it a step further and lets you know a rare item has dropped. Thanks for saving my heart from skipping a beat...I guess.

In PSU, fighter PAs leveled fast and techs/bullets were SLOOOWW. Right now, you have to find higher level PAs. Obviously, PSU lacked balance but I def. believe it was the better system.

Zorafim
Aug 7, 2015, 11:27 AM
You must be really bored to necro such old thread.

Five days old is a necro? The rules on this forum sure are different.

On topic, I say PSO2 is the same as any other Sega game. Good in many aspects, but glaringly flawed in enough points where it becomes below average.
The combat is great for an online game, but there's nothing to utilize it on. The only fun fights are soloing a boss, but there's no incentive to. The balance is great at low levels, but gear has become so inflated that everyone is expected to be able to kill something the instant it spawns. The visuals and customization are great, but so few things come out that aren't either skimpy or cutesie that it's impossible to make a character that doesn't look a certain nitch way without her being generic.

So again, just like any other Sega game. Great concepts and the basics are all there. But they're handled poorly.

FireswordRus
Aug 7, 2015, 11:30 AM
1st EVE-Online (pvp 5k vs 5k)
2nd PS series (best rare hunt, story)

Cyber Meteor
Aug 7, 2015, 11:30 AM
Five days old is a necro? The rules on this forum sure are different.

The thread was created on July 30th 2014 and NOT 2015:-P, so 1 year and 5 days is a necro indeed

the_importer_
Aug 7, 2015, 11:30 AM
Five days old is a necro? The rules on this forum sure are different.

lol, don't look at the month of the post before A. Zerran's, look at the year :p

wahahaha
Aug 7, 2015, 11:32 AM
Demon's Souls = Bloodborne > PSO2 > DaS series

Zorafim
Aug 7, 2015, 11:40 AM
lol, don't look at the month of the post before A. Zerran's, look at the year :p

Wha? What are you talking abo-WHOA JESUS
Ha, to time that so perfectly! I didn't even realize!


Demon's Souls = Bloodborne > PSO2 > DaS series

I have to give the soul series a shot. It seems like it takes everything I hate about modern gaming, and throws it out the window. At the same time, it takes everything I love about oldschool gaming, mashes it together, and makes it look beautiful. I saw Gamegrump's playthrough of Bloodborne, and it was like they were playing Castlevania in 3D. Difficult, but fair. Not to mention the visuals.

dingophone
Aug 7, 2015, 11:50 AM
It's not as good as it COULD be, but it is very fun and I find myself playing it quite a bit still. Overall there is definitely a lot to fix about it, but I'd put it among the most fun (not the same as the best) games I've played.

Chdata
Aug 7, 2015, 12:26 PM
I bet if I tried Blade & Soul, I'd get super hooked on it.

I love PSO2 only because of character customization, cool looking animation, and cool enemies, and anime and games. Perfect touhou character remakes.

Otherwise its actually kinda mediocre. I would be more likely to grind in Runescape than stay in PSO2, that is if Runescape didn't go completely downhill.

Now that boost week and that LQ is over I might go back to TF2 because PSO2 doesn't have many quests that promote players at random to constantly be playing. LQs like the gold badge ones are great because you can always get full MPAs for people playing it.


But without those PSO2 is like a ghost town until EQs come up.

Searaphim
Aug 7, 2015, 12:47 PM
Blade and Soul has a lot of flaws, just as much as PSO2 I'd say. For me PSO2 is the best F2P experience I've had.

LunaSolstice
Aug 7, 2015, 12:54 PM
I love PSO2,though I wouldn't say its the best MMO ever and perfect or anything like that. But for the futuristic sci-fi category of mmos,it might be the best one due to there not being alot of these types,that don't fail that is lol

Example of a failed mmo in this category would be Scarlet Blade,used to love that game during its first and second year but the playerbase in it went to the lowest point ever due to alot of stuff Aeria did.

Chdata
Aug 7, 2015, 12:55 PM
this is hands down the best anime mmo

Nitro Vordex
Aug 7, 2015, 05:14 PM
I bet if I tried Blade & Soul, I'd get super hooked on it.

If you liked FF sure. :wacko:


I can't remember if I posted in this thread. I will give PSO2 the honor of the best game in it's very weirdly specific genre. (Action RPG sort of MMO but not really with real time combat and I mean REAL time none of the strike cool strike cooldown shit MMO's do all the time) A very close second is Vindictus, as it's the closest I've gotten to fulfilling this specific hole in my heart.

Shinamori
Aug 7, 2015, 06:06 PM
If the combat is good in Blade and Soul and Black Desert, I'll stop playing PSO2. Honestly, in a mmo, PSO2 (to me) has one of the best combat systems. No shitty cool down on special attacks, or fake real-time combat.

DRIGZ
Aug 7, 2015, 06:37 PM
Its one of the best f2p mmos, Imma be moving on B&S ASAP, same for monster hunter online(China)

Noblewine
Aug 7, 2015, 07:07 PM
Phantasy Star Zero was better.

Thienien
Sep 12, 2015, 12:08 AM
Hell no this economy is the worst i've EVER seen in ANY fucking game EVER.

Lumpen Thingy
Sep 12, 2015, 12:22 AM
Hell no this economy is the worst i've EVER seen in ANY fucking game EVER.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that's a good one. Go play any mmo rpg that's under nexon's rule. Also why is this thread even open at this point?

Thienien
Sep 12, 2015, 12:26 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that's a good one. Go play any mmo rpg that's under nexon's rule. Also why is this thread even open at this point?

naaa man i'm a veteran in vindictus and mabinogi and the things in the markets were OBTAINABLE within a decent amount of time.

In this game you can't fucking buy certain things or sell WITHOUT AC

That's fucked up and gamebreaking. No fucking game does this but this one

Fucking PSU didn't even do that. Just like Japan, throwing out good stuff and replacing it with regurgitation...

Response to hateful trolls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHCnHFcVZzU

CoWorker
Sep 12, 2015, 12:27 AM
Hell no this economy is the worst i've EVER seen in ANY fucking game EVER.

i bet you're playing the SEA server... prices on JP are very generous (well except for the cooler Lobby Actions that are like 40m, but still its not really that important)

Mega Ultra Chicken
Sep 12, 2015, 12:27 AM
naaa man i'm a veteran in vindictus and mabinogi and the things in the markets were OBTAINABLE within a decent amount of time.

In this game you can't fucking buy certain things or sell WITHOUT AC

That's fucked up and gamebreaking. No fucking game does this but this one

Fucking PSU didn't even do that. Just like Japan, throwing out good stuff and replacing it with regurgitation...

Tell me again how players with free accounts on PSU could access their rooms and sell items.

Hysteria1987
Sep 12, 2015, 12:39 AM
I enjoy the game for what it is, but it's certainly not one of the best games I've played. The original PSO was way better to me. Beyond being a bit too anime-ish for me (but that's a personal style thing), the quests just aren't interesting. Most maps are basically cubes or corridors, and due to random spawns there's not much in the way of interesting enemy layouts.

EQs are definitely an interesting feature, buuuut outside of them nobody seems to do anything.

There's little in the way of immersion, either. In the original PSO you always had some story excuse for doing what you were doing, and the mystery of what happened to the Pioneer I was genuinely interesting. Here it just feels like you're doing stuff because why not. You had a job back then (*hitches up pants and complains about young people*), you wore armour because what you were doing was dangerous, and the aesthetics fit in with the atmosphere of the game. Now basically every quest is the same, and outside of EQs, ain't nobody in 'em.

So in short, no- I think the original PSO took this concept and did it better.

Don't get me wrong, like I said I enjoy the game for what it is, but maaaan, I want to write a futuristic MMO that fixes those problems. Of course, I have no time, no motivation and, more importantly, no game-making skills. :D

Lumpen Thingy
Sep 12, 2015, 12:51 AM
naaa man i'm a veteran in vindictus and mabinogi and the things in the markets were OBTAINABLE within a decent amount of time.

In this game you can't fucking buy certain things or sell WITHOUT AC

That's fucked up and gamebreaking. No fucking game does this but this one

Fucking PSU didn't even do that. Just like Japan, throwing out good stuff and replacing it with regurgitation...

Response to hateful trolls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHCnHFcVZzU
So what you're saying is that you're level 60 in PSO2 and you think 10 mil is ALOT of meseta? Only figuring that since making money and buying things in this game is REALLY easy compared to most mmos. Also JP PSU when it was free to play didn't allow you to buy or sell things in player shops yet PSO2 free players can do just that if you actually know how to(the hint is learn to farm EX cubes).

LunaSolstice
Sep 12, 2015, 12:58 AM
Hell no this economy is the worst i've EVER seen in ANY fucking game EVER.

Play NA Elsword and try to come back here and say that again LOL

That economy is much worse than this one. It was the last mmo I played before playing PSO2 and there were things that costed well over 2billion lol

Majority of the end game gear sets also costed over 2 billion compared to a much cheaper price in PSO2

Tyaph
Sep 12, 2015, 02:18 AM
I've certainly been playing this game a lot more than I thought I would. That alone makes it a good game to me. It may even be my favorite game to play, but I do have a few problems with the game. One of them being that the story is great, but the matter boards are something you have to go out of your way to do, so few people experience it.

NoobSpectre
Sep 12, 2015, 02:32 AM
Cons:
- Stupid rare drop rate (not SEGA fault, SEA server fault), which each Elder 11* drop like 50 per week since August, while I so much as getting a falclaw only throughout 1 year play.
- Withholding collabs to other servers in the world, share of culture between countries is needed, its not like Jpn servers release porn costumes, or vice versa.
- 10* above needs premium, and nope, I need only end list of 10* weaps and units, not those drop in mbd.
- Loli Star Online 2 (all)/ Nazonde/Hato Star Online 2 (SEA)
- Less CAST parts in later scratch (I see the parts in broadcast #34 quite good though)

Pros:
- CAST (male)
- Wide range of quest from free to go but useless to expensive entry ticket but good loot, and yeah, Emergency Quest around.
- AIS with Wave Motion Cannon
- Combined Techs and new pa (sphere eraser is still a good view pa, good view...)
- The famous troll from our Final Boss, Dudica or Monudu.

Xaelouse
Sep 12, 2015, 05:14 AM
DD-ON feels better to play, although the boss fights aren't as flashy. I wish Bouncer had shield sage's enchanting and importance as a support class

Lumpen Thingy
Sep 12, 2015, 05:28 AM
DD-ON feels better to play, although the boss fights aren't as flashy. I wish Bouncer had shield sage's enchanting and importance as a support class

get flash guard and auto mate and you have your "shield" as for support if it had good support it would make techer WORTHLESS

saphirkatze
Sep 12, 2015, 06:35 AM
I've only been playing since April of this year, so counting the DDOS downtime and the extra week before I was able to reconnect, I've logged well over 400 hours in. I can personally say that, as a bit of a completionist, that PSO2 is one of the better games I've played in my life. Is it the best, of course not, but for now, I'm pretty much just playing this.

As for a F2P game, IMPO, SEGA as found the perfect balance between the free aspect and the micro transactions aspect. I wasn't force to expand my item slots, I just wanted to in order to grab everything I could to sale for cash. I wasn't forced to buy a new Mag, I just screwed up my first one. I wasn't forced to get premium, I just wanted to have multiple client orders in order to complete them faster.

It's still amazes me that such a large game is technically free and yet, they still make so much money out of it.

Absolutely.

One of the - if not the - best combat systems in MMOs with good diversity. The skill trees actually make sense unlike many other MMOs. Sure, there's improvement potential... but what we already have is already good.

I like how the instances are organized as well. Many games have problems with what to do with old instances once you overgrow them, many end up stat clamping the player. PSO solves this very elegant imo, by giving you the chance to destroy the lower instances if you wish to or go into the higher ones for better exp/loot. Client Orders provide replay value on one side and a good motivation to not just rush through the level on the other. EQs are good motivations for players to get together and kinda push teamplay. This is like MMOs should be done!

On top of that the already mentioned marketplace. I think it's really really greatly done. You can choose to play the game completely for free if you wish. And if, at some point, you think "Man, I sure played a huge amount of time here...whoops, 700h! I should give this game something back!", you have pretty neat and convienient items that will improve your QoL ingame.

All in one, PSO2 is a great MMO and shows in many ways how FTP MMOs should be. It surely is one of the best games I've played (that's why I still play it through it's partly untranslated) and my only wish is that they officially allow non-Japanese players and the English patch, so I wouldn't live in constant fear of losing my characters :)

Neith
Sep 12, 2015, 08:11 AM
No.

That's not to say it's a bad game; I do have fun for the most part when I play. I just don't feel the same urge to log on as I did with PSO and I don't feel like hunting anything because it's probably easier to buy it from someone in most situations. I also really dislike the economy which has resulted in ridiculous prices for things like hairstyles, accessories etc. I know you can get around this with Arks Scratch but I'd much rather the Arks Scratch be replaced by adding current scratch items to a temporary AC Shop (so you can choose what you want to spend your AC on rather than relying on dumb luck).

The easiest way for me to describe PSO2 is that in 10-15 years time I probably won't consider PSO2 a memorable game, whereas the original PSO still is to me. I know it's largely nostalgia but I just don't get the same interest when I'm on PSO2.

(Incidentally, the best game I've ever played was Front Mission 3, so not even the original PSO).

Gama
Sep 12, 2015, 11:40 AM
pretty much the only game i play so i guess it is.

Oleptro
Sep 12, 2015, 12:16 PM
Been playing since the CB, so I do like this game a lot. Still, nowhere near the best games I've played. Even among MMOs I'd rank it third or fourth.

Ce'Nedra
Sep 12, 2015, 03:13 PM
Lolno. As fun it can be there is so much wrong with it.

The game has much potential that sega loves to waste on random crap and bullshit systems not to mention the horrible RNG. When i started to play this game I hoped it was more like PSO1 but sadly it's not. I have a hard time finding any motivation to play this game for longer then a hour a week right now and in that time all I do is Rodos DCO to keep up with meseta. Which is in fact a nice thing cause I can play other games that I didn't have time for when I did actively play PSO2.

NoiseHERO
Sep 12, 2015, 04:15 PM
My total bias against it aside, It's probably the best F2P mmo (iono I dun keep up with those too well anymore.) Well, in terms of combat, sci-fi theme and char customization(Well until when not using loli facetypes and rip when black desert comes out with the ass slider) at least..

But that's also extremely disappointing when considering f2p mmos/orpgs overall.

And as a game overall it's pretty shit, probably because of the low standards needed when making a f2p game period, Which is why it's kind of an easy cash grab-spit in the face to long term fans and it's past games. Making it a sad whorish shadow of it's former self that gets away with coming up with great ideas and concepts and then for god knows what reason watering them down or half-assing them, missing valuable potential in literally all aspects of the game and it gets LOTS OF MONEY either way because people are marks.

More money than the far superior other games ever have. Thus more spitting in the face of it's oldboy fans... But... ehn, fuck fanbases.

Zeota
Sep 12, 2015, 07:43 PM
Best game I ever played? There hasn't really been a game that's come out within the past decade that I would fit into that category.

Best in the genre? No, but definitely not the worst.

For all that PSO2 has done wrong (clipping, RNG, balance to name a few), it does enough right to keep me coming back, and I've played since CBT.

Yeah, the RNG can be annoying, but there are ways of getting around it to some extent (in terms of upgrading equipment). Still not the worst I've dealt with. Anyone that played FFXI at 75 cap and did dynamis (or the HNM scene) can attest to some of the horrible drop rate shenanigans there. And on top of that, you could only do it twice a week. And don't get me started on voidwatch. At least PSO2 didn't trash your weapon on a failed grind like vanilla PSU did. And let's not forget waiting 24 hours for a 10-star weapon with a 90% success rate only to be handed a monomate.

As for balance, that's kind of a slippery slope there. While I believe it's important, it shouldn't be done to the point of homogenization. Nor do I feel it should be so off the wall that it promotes given classes/jobs being flat-out ostracized by the community at large. Another problem with that is weapons that so vastly outclass others that you're almost expected to have them before even being allowed to do anything past a certain point in a group of randoms. Again, I'll cite FFXI here since I've had the most experience with it. There were quite a few encounters (both at 75 cap and 99 cap) that demanded very specific set-ups in order to succeed consistently. There were mobs with AOE's that would decimate anyone that wasn't a tank so fights like that demanded ranged attackers (black mages, rangers, and sometimes summoners). Yeah PSO2 has some broken class combinations for given situations, but I feel the content is accessible enough.

Kokurokoki
Sep 13, 2015, 08:46 PM
PSO2 is the best MMO I have played aside from Warframe.

Why? Because you can actually upgrade starting weapons to be viable in the endgame. Not many MMOs actually do this to my knowledge.

Also, the paywall doesn't really restrict you too much because the only things worth your money don't directly impact the gameplay.

It shares a similar model with Warframe, and for that I enjoy it.

The only problem I have with it, is that some class-subclass combinations are completely garbage. Also poor weapon synergy. But then again, I keep trying to play it like its Devil May Cry. So that just might be my personal gripes... xD

strikerhunter
Sep 13, 2015, 09:50 PM
Simple answer: No, no as in not the best nor the worst but just in the middle ground.

Why? (Positives)
[SPOILER-BOX]-One of the better science fiction based MMO if not the worst/best
-You can at least look forward to updates (even if its new outfits twice a month and quests every season)
-At the very least, the developers are active at promoting their game (livestreams, events, campaigns, design contest, etc.)
-The ability to get AC content (aka outfits, etc.) without paying AC yourself.
-One of the better character creations.
-One of the better games with robots in recent years. (which makes me sad)
-At the very least, there are some initiative to log in. Whether it be just for DO money, TACO, or log-in stamp, etc. at the very least Sega did that part right even if you still find it boring.
-Active art community............not the SA bullshits.

[/SPOILER-BOX]
Why? (negatives) Note some can be overlooked.
[SPOILER-BOX]-Probably one of the worse RNG if THE WORSE.
-The grind is probably one of the worse if not THE WORSE out there. I can understand 10-20 runs for said trade item for gear but with a ridiculous amount of said items + with the bad RNG makes the grind seem abysmal.
-Poor weapon synergy.
-Main Class and Sub Class system.
-Skill trees in general, you would think skill trees open up creativity in roles (dps/healing/tank) in games when in reality everyone will just go one specific path (normally strait bests DPS). This doesn't just apply to PSO2 only though.
-Balancing. Although not as bad as other games, it's still something to note as a negative because Sega's main solution to Balance is just to add more DPS rather than a full revamp because wynaut.
-Lack of immersion.
-Buffing (Shifta/Deband/Healings/etc.) is probably one of the most awkward ways to approach buffing that I have ever seen.
-Lack of diverse content that are "different" rather than approached differently
-Lack of diverse E.Codes and EQs. Elder/Luther, TD (before addition more TDs with same objective), and Magastu are the only unique ones whereas all others are just area rehashed.
-The option to choose what EQ you want to do during EQ hour. What's the point of having lesser EQs when you can do more popular ones?
-Very poor Boss and Mob balancing: From lack of diverse move pool to why the fuck mobs deal same damage as almost every boss to only being able to take 1-6 hits (unless dedicated tank build) even with on-par or higher gear. Bosses don't feel like a boss when mobs can deal similar amount of damage, they're just one big meany with more drops.
-MPA..........I have literally no idea why are we restricted to a party of 4 instead of 12. Like........why? What's the point? Why does this even exist? Literally why? EQ groups would benefit from this a lot without having to set up Passwords or worrying that a random might get in.
-Block restricted maps, isolates players from playing and interacting with each other. Would also benefit EQ's if it should be lifted.

Biggest Fault:
-Lack of initiative or motivation.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Although there are technically more negatives, most can be over looked and other games with similar negatives have it worser.

Qualia
Sep 13, 2015, 09:58 PM
Christ, this thread is still a thing..?
On topic: no.