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View Full Version : What's with all the 20 minute Falz Loser runs?



TaigaUC
Aug 10, 2014, 11:55 AM
I've been trying to do Falz Loser runs this week, and whenever I see a bunch of EN names, the run takes like 20 minutes. Happens on every block I try it on.
For comparison, mostly JP player runs tend to take 7 minutes.
I notice people start leaving if Loser doesn't lose his core cover and start teleporting by 45 seconds or so.

I thought people mastered Falz Loser a long time ago? 7 minute runs felt more common back before the DDoS.
Maybe it's because everyone is leveling alts now?

The most annoying thing is when I get insta-killed at the last moment from ressing someone or pausing to let someone get resurrected.
Then nobody resurrects me and I've wasted 20 minutes for 0 EXP. Has happened like 6 times now and it's goddamn annoying.
Not receiving EXP makes no sense at all. It also encourages people to be selfish.

Edit: And I just noticed I got Lavis Blade. Not sure if that's worth the 0 EXP.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 10, 2014, 12:09 PM
~20 minute runs happen when you don't have WB from what I've seen...

The discrepancy between having, and not having WB for loser is absurd, and is a big indication that his HP is balanced around WB being there, which needless to say is a stupid design decision turned into a necessary evil because WB is overpowered as all hell, and mandates the game being balanced around that one ability that one class has. It needs to be nerfed way harder than x3->x2.5, accompanied with loser HP nerfs for an ideal of 10-13 minute fights with, or without WB.

Sorry if that sounds like a bit of a derail, but if I had to guess, that's why you had a 20 minute loser fight; not everyone packs WB, and needing to demand at least 1/12 people play a ranger for it is... silly.

_mist
Aug 10, 2014, 12:10 PM
cough cough
Mirage

Kikikiki
Aug 10, 2014, 12:11 PM
~20 minute runs happen when you don't have WB from what I've seen...

The discrepancy between having, and not having WB for loser is absurd, and is a big indication that his HP is balanced around WB being there, which needless to say is a stupid design decision turned into a necessary evil because WB is overpowered as all hell, and mandates the game being balanced around that one ability that one class has. It needs to be nerfed way harder than x3->x2.5, accompanied with loser HP nerfs for an ideal of 10-13 minute fights with, or without WB.

Sorry if that sounds like a bit of a derail, but if I had to guess, that's why you had a 20 minute loser fight; not everyone packs WB, and needing to demand at least 1/12 people play a ranger for it is... silly.

It is at times like these EQs that I always bring WB myself. You never know if shit can happen.

TaigaUC
Aug 10, 2014, 12:12 PM
Sorry, I should have elaborated.
I've been in several runs that still take 15-20 minutes even with WB.

Any other reason why people can't seem to break the core cover for like 5-10 minutes?
I was in one run where they couldn't break it at all.

And yeah, WB is OP and the game should not be balanced around it.

Dnd
Aug 10, 2014, 12:15 PM
Eh, luck of the draw, for every 20min mpa clear theres a group doing it in 3-5. even with WB it doesnt stop it being an awful long fight (Had 15-20 min runs WITH and without weakbullet, quickest clear without WB being 9 mins).

boost week will bring out all the lower level alts aswell, so its probably a combination of low damage /low hp/gear and no mirage/wb's causing alot of long fights

Gama
Aug 10, 2014, 12:16 PM
ive had quick runs i had slow runs, i honestly stopped bothering about it.

ive seen people on sh loser using 4 star weapons... so...

weakbullet and a windbearer are key.

Cypher_9
Aug 10, 2014, 12:55 PM
And I just noticed I got Lavis Blade.

Least you got it man, I wouldn't complain about exp if I got a weapon worth getting...

*chuckles*

GHNeko
Aug 10, 2014, 02:07 PM
You guys ever think that the Loser Boss battle is supposed to take around 20-25 mins without WB because it's an epic final boss battle? And that WB turns it into a 2-2.5 min battle?

It shows that WB is stupid, but I dont know... A boss like Luther feels more natural as a 20 min battle and not a 2 minute one.

Why else would the boss fight music have like 23048923 different melodies and so many forms and shit?

IndigoNovember
Aug 10, 2014, 02:13 PM
I think it'd be fine as a 20 minute battle if this wasn't a game where you can have multiple characters and it is beneficial to you to do the battle on every character.

Ce'Nedra
Aug 10, 2014, 02:43 PM
Least you got it man, I wouldn't complain about exp if I got a weapon worth getting...

*chuckles*

It doesn't has a DPS latent therefore its trash, psow logic man. I for one would take it any day over some meh exp, its to easy to level up as it is already anyway.

Terrence
Aug 10, 2014, 03:06 PM
I've been trying to do Falz Loser runs this week.
And whenever I see a bunch of EN names, the run takes like 20 minutes.
Happens on every block I try it on.
For comparison, mostly JP player runs tend to take 7 minutes.
If YOUR Party takes 20 minutes to kill Luther, which is long but not shameful, you are ALL responsible for that. This is way to easy to say the eleven other ones are guilty but not you.

GHNeko
Aug 10, 2014, 03:15 PM
It is holistic, but at the same time; its not.

It's not impossible to be the only player that is actually pulling weight, just as how its not impossible to be the only leecher, and as well, not impossible for everyone to be at fault.

No need to try to shift blame unnecessarily. We don't know the details of his MPA, so let's just take his post at face value and work off of that. If you happen to be in the MPA, then by all means call out the bullshit. If not, then let it slide.

Daiyousei
Aug 10, 2014, 03:19 PM
I've been in TD3 runs where there were only 6 people on the map at a time, but the counter showed 12/12 throughout, there's some serious leeching going on. Heck they're not even leeching they're just staying in campship

Xaelouse
Aug 10, 2014, 03:32 PM
It doesn't has a DPS latent therefore its trash, psow logic man. I for one would take it any day over some meh exp, its to easy to level up as it is already anyway.

it's not even that
The latent itself isn't even a vast improvement over its weaker version, nor are they on weapons that would make good use of it besides the bow.
Not many people should care how long luther takes as long as it doesnt time out.

HeyItsTHK
Aug 10, 2014, 03:48 PM
If there's no mirage people are in it for the long haul. The battle is designed to be long so it doesn't bother me when it does take 15+ minutes. There might be points where damage just kinda stops as everyone is busy dying/dodging/reviving/mate drinking

yoshiblue
Aug 10, 2014, 03:52 PM
Requesting bullet hell boss.

Ceresa
Aug 10, 2014, 03:56 PM
My Luther runs here on fabulous Ship 2, of which I do 3 with randoms every time he shows, are consistently 3~7 minutes, regardless of JP time or Gaijin time. Sorry you suck and can't carry MPA. Should probably strive to get better instead of throwing everyone else under the bus.

But judging from your past history of bumping the TD thread to whine about MPA randoms, I guess this is simply your style.

Xaelouse
Aug 10, 2014, 03:59 PM
Requesting bullet hell boss.

Falz Anger is the closest we have.
dat laser show

Purrl
Aug 10, 2014, 04:02 PM
I've had some bad loser runs but its generally due to lack of weak bullet and/or mirage or just people with bad gear in general... and it's never restricted to just english players.

That said, when a run DOES go bad I don't start pointing fingers at other people. I think mainly about whether or not I did my part and what I could have done better, whether it be my own play style or communicating with my mpa.

Kirukia
Aug 10, 2014, 04:08 PM
I've been in TD3 runs where there were only 6 people on the map at a time, but the counter showed 12/12 throughout, there's some serious leeching going on. Heck they're not even leeching they're just staying in campship

In the Loser battle last night we were at 11/12 by the end I believe, but I only saw I think 6 people on the battlefield for most of the fight (myself included). We actually ran out of time when he was almost down...

The players on the field were good with reviving though, so that was nice. This was on VH.

jcart953
Aug 10, 2014, 04:53 PM
Honestly, it's probably a combination of under geared/low level people. They pop up in all Mpa's. In the future if your run is going over 7-10 mins and there's no warning of boss with low life just abandon quest and start another.

Around this time all the low level/under geared/ "people who like to have fun" are still tied up in their hour long runs. At the same time the speed rusher crowds are running there 2-3rd characters so shouldn't be hard to get a new group.

Renzix
Aug 10, 2014, 06:33 PM
I've been trying to do Falz Loser runs this week, and whenever I see a bunch of EN names, the run takes like 20 minutes. Happens on every block I try it on.


That's what happens when you don't have Weak Bullet or a Force to open Loser's clock. Also, I laugh at you because you're dumb enough to point blame saying that it's the English Player-bases' Fault for sucking, yet there's a ton of JP players that are much worse.

Tell ya what. Since you're known on here for being a fucking moron in general, you can learn to talk to us about being shit when there isn't Japs leaving TD3 when it's 12/12 as the Mission starts.

HeyItsTHK
Aug 10, 2014, 06:42 PM
I don't normally snoop at people's gear, but when I do, I get disappointed. And my gear ain't even all that, I just go with the basics in terms of affixes, but when I see people with just random garbage I just frown.

Sanguine2009
Aug 10, 2014, 07:26 PM
Requesting bullet hell boss.

would actually really like this, angel is fun and all but not nearly bullet hellish enough.

GHNeko
Aug 10, 2014, 07:52 PM
I just wish I could tag a "IN PROGRESS" tag on my equipment.

I'm rolling around here with unfinished shit feeling like a shitter and it feels bad man.

Macmaxi
Aug 10, 2014, 07:53 PM
Well, i play on Ship 4 which hardly has any english speaking folk, and it's pretty much all up to random. I have been failing TD2 for weeks even when people have been reporting clearing it S-Rank from day 1.


And i had tons of different Loser runs as well. I for my part just accept the random nature of MPA's. Even when doing the LQ you can spot a lot of differences.


I actually did a VH run of the Knight Gear LQ and people were gathering up after the crystal PSE bonus in one corner and sent one guy out to trigger the PSE while the others waited patiently to snipe the PSE burst. I don't even see that often in SHAQ's i do with random JP's.

Shiyo
Aug 10, 2014, 08:03 PM
I've been trying to do Falz Loser runs this week, and whenever I see a bunch of EN names, the run takes like 20 minutes. Happens on every block I try it on.

That's what happens when a boss is balanced around weak bullet, a debuff only a single class brings that increases 12 peoples damage by 300%.

Expect more of this in the future.

Yden
Aug 10, 2014, 08:04 PM
Question, if you used the ranger skill, mirage shot, would it be possible to instantly open up the clock?

Lumpen Thingy
Aug 10, 2014, 08:09 PM
That's what happens when a boss is balanced around weak bullet, a debuff only a single class brings that increases 12 peoples damage by 300%.

Expect more of this in the future.

thats why I was in a party of forces gunners and bravers with no weak bullet in site and we still killed Loser in 10 minutes?

Cyber Meteor
Aug 10, 2014, 08:20 PM
Question, if you used the ranger skill, mirage shot, would it be possible to instantly open up the clock?

It has already been discussed/tried before and if I remember correctly, Mirage Shot doesn't open instantly the clock, it works like if your weapon had Mirage affixed on it so it's not a viable idea to bring Mirage Shot on Luther.

final_attack
Aug 10, 2014, 08:39 PM
Hmm .... maybe it'll help a bit by bringing "Mirage" weapon?

I personally use my Milla for opening DF Losers clock. Affixed it with Soul + Mirage or Shoot3 + Mirage, I forgot. No point in maxing Milla attack power for me, since I only use it for healing purpose ._.

Or try going as Tech user? Trying to keep those alive, since it's better than when they're dead? Well, at least if they didn't get 1 shotted though. Zanverse should work well too, to boost damage output in the front line.

At least it'll help a bit.

Cyber Meteor
Aug 10, 2014, 08:52 PM
@final_attack Zanverse also adds the ability to inflict Mirage for those who don't have Mirage affixed on their weapons at least, I don't know if it overrides the affixed Mirage for the others but seeing how fast the clock gets opened when Zanverse is used I would say it does.

oratank
Aug 10, 2014, 09:52 PM
u know it's not about wb or mirage all the time. it's people in mpa don't want/know the way of quick run.
i had in the fail mpa once clock had open to the limit but it didn't break . all i saw was many tec spam their spell on loser crystal and some people still hit on the clock even it had out of limit. so the final result all part of loser had break but not the clock and time out.
sometime it has wb fight in mpa. clock > arm > clock > crys > arm > crys

i really wanna know how they feel try hard to break every part but get nothing :d

Shiyo
Aug 10, 2014, 09:52 PM
thats why I was in a party of forces gunners and bravers with no weak bullet in site and we still killed Loser in 10 minutes?

If you had weak bullet, your run would have been 5 minutes.

I don't understand the point of your post.

To add to this:
5 minute runs lets you run Loser on ~4-5 characters, 10 minute runs do not.

Sandmind
Aug 10, 2014, 09:54 PM
Technically speaking, Zanverse doesn't replace or add mriage to other peoples' weapon, it simply proc damage and possibly mirage for each people in it's radius.

GHNeko
Aug 10, 2014, 09:59 PM
The way Zanverse works is that when you hit something while standing inside of zanverse, a second or two later, a wind attack will emerge and attack the thing you attacked for at least 20% damage of what you just dealt. This attack has 20% chance at mirage.

The attacks that come from Zanverse, even if its from other people; are owned by the caster of Zanverse however. So it counts as aggro towards him and shows up as big numbers for him and small numbers for people who didnt cast Zanverse.

final_attack
Aug 10, 2014, 10:05 PM
Ah, yes, I usually use Zanverse to help getting mirage too, I dunno if it'll help or not though ^^;

I've been playing on my alt lately (trying to cap Te, so I can go pure support on Ep 3 should needed, I admit it's very nice with 100% Exp Boost since I don't have much time irl :/) ..... Been using Zanverse a lot, I do wonder if it'll override affixed Mirage. But at least, I hope it'll help inflicting mirage on the clock.

I guess ...... I went okay if I just rely on Zanverse when playing as support then? :o Trying to keep people alive, already wasted a lot of PP >_<

GHNeko
Aug 10, 2014, 10:09 PM
Zanverse doesnt override status effects on people weapons because it's essentially a double attack. It's the second attack that has mirage.

So if the attacker has a weapon with mirage, and he attacks within Zanverse. That's 2 attack from one person with mirage proc.

Also, Zanverse is the Bizness. All the time any time, Zanverse is a perfect choice of support.

Misaki Ki
Aug 10, 2014, 11:56 PM
I think a large part of it is people just trying to get ready for Bouncer.

TaigaUC
Aug 11, 2014, 03:44 AM
Was in a really long nasty run that went literally nowhere. No core, no teleport, nothing.
The WBer didn't want to use WB.

I'm going to convert my Rescue Guns from Shock to Mirage.
It's not like we really need Shock for Elder anymore.

UnLucky
Aug 11, 2014, 04:02 AM
Well it's not like you need Rescue Guns for anything anymore, since, well, there's no situation where you wouldn't want more damage rather than less.

As in, crafting some random twin mechs or grabbing the strongest pair of all class ones would be better than squirting water at a boss you're trying to speed kill.

Although in that case, a double saber would probably be a better idea, with the side benefit of recovering a lot more PP.

Halikus
Aug 11, 2014, 07:29 AM
If you want good loser runs stop teaming up with randoms who are under leveled, under equipped and massively under skilled.

Dammy
Aug 11, 2014, 07:34 AM
you mean any EN named player?

Halikus
Aug 11, 2014, 07:50 AM
No, not at all there are plenty of really good western players out there. The only thing is they are all on teams who do not play eq's with randoms for the very reason that it will go pear shaped.

My team will do some EQ's with randoms but Loser is always done without randoms even if that means doing in a party of 2. We regularly do multi runs with 4-6 players and as long as we have a ra and a few 70/70 geared players it never takes more than 8-10 mins full break. Our record is just under 7 mins fullbreak and that was 5 manning it.

Top tip join a team!!

Neith
Aug 11, 2014, 08:07 AM
Generally I'll keep an eye on who is in my Apos Dorios runs in case there's a bad party. If I see the same names joining a Luther run I'll head back to campship and reload.

However I do prefer Luther to be a longer battle, it doesn't feel remotely climactic when he dies in 2-3 minutes. I kind of hate the mentality of having major bosses with weak points; I'd prefer it if bosses like Luther didn't have easily exploitable weak parts.

Sayara
Aug 11, 2014, 08:18 AM
They could just make it harder to mirage his chest, to appease to us whom enjoy a climatic battle I guess. If things are going south, i too keep Eggman guns with Mirage to try and shoot at him, (if im playing HU anyway)

reaper527
Aug 11, 2014, 02:59 PM
To add to this:
5 minute runs lets you run Loser on ~4-5 characters, 10 minute runs do not.

are multiple loser runs feasible? whenever i've tried, i've done my 4 kills on the apos dorios on N, switched chars, and found that the sh lobbies were all at capacity or completely empty (both pc AND the shithole that is pc/vita).

i ask this as a non-premium user. with premium, there is definitely room to get into lobbies and hit loser on a bunch of chars.

The Walrus
Aug 11, 2014, 03:04 PM
It's probably easiest if you have a full team to do it with

Alenoir
Aug 11, 2014, 03:15 PM
are multiple loser runs feasible? whenever i've tried, i've done my 4 kills on the apos dorios on N, switched chars, and found that the sh lobbies were all at capacity or completely empty (both pc AND the shithole that is pc/vita).

i ask this as a non-premium user. with premium, there is definitely room to get into lobbies and hit loser on a bunch of chars.
It'd doable, depending on how many characters you're trying to run with. The last SH lobby on the list that's half full will usually fill up as more people are done with their other charas, but if you're trying to run 4 characters or something you may not be able to get into a decent-ish block. Takes about 5 minutes to do a set of 4 normal runs, then a few more minutes to chara swap.

horseship
Aug 11, 2014, 03:33 PM
I have a very slow computer (sometimes takes more than a minute to load the lobby) and I manage to double run loser fine, even with 4 N Doritos per character. I don't have premium, never had it, and I still don't have trouble completing runs on the highest full SH block possible for the most part. I had one really slow run, but that was only because there was no WB. Still managed to get a second run at :55, but barely. From now on I'm doing my first run on my cast RA/HU and second run on my newman FO/TE just to guarantee a second run.

And I find it really funny how people think EN players are so bad. Random JP players are just as bad, really. Look around the lobby and you'll see just as many JP players with unaffixed Tagami/Vardha set + unpotentialed weapon as you see EN players with them. If I had a nickel for every time I saw random JP FO's spamming ilgrants with bad equipment against non darkers, I'd probably have a few dollars. Tons of JP players don't know what they're doing. If you want proof, just try doing EQs on the shared Vita blocks. I used to go to them as a last resort when the last SH block was completely empty (idk why that always happens), but after a few bad experiences I'd rather not try again.