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View Full Version : More Episode 3 Information from Dengeki PS (HQ scans included)



Lyrise
Aug 12, 2014, 10:17 PM
Taken from the latest issue of Dengeki Playstation.
Note: these scans are huge and clock about 4MB each, so people with slower connections beware. (I'd rather leave the resolution on them intact to make it quite easy to read) Will add more notes later.

More information on Bouncers, and their PAs and Skills.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://stylizedunreality.com/Images/PSO2/DPSScan/DPSBouncer12.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

MOre information on the Casino area:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://stylizedunreality.com/Images/PSO2/DPSScan/DPSCasino34.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

And a list of some enemies to expect on planet Harukotan.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://stylizedunreality.com/Images/PSO2/DPSScan/DPSEnemylist5.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

-Dual Blade PA names seem to have a bird theme. (Distract Wing, Heavenly Kite, Justice Crow, Disperse Shrike, Kestrel Rampage、and Tarring Fowl) Not entirely sure on Jet Boot PAs.
-Jet boots change elements when you charge an actual tech.
-Jet Boot PAs cast specific techs when you charge them. For example, Strike Geist will cast Shifta, while Gran Wave will cast Deband. Moment Gale will have the Zanverse Property. Any techs coming off charged PAs do not consume additional PP.
-Dual Blade PAs can be used to attack up close or from a distance.

-Hidden around the casino area are Lilipa stickers. Find these for titles and trophies. Locations are random for everyone and at any point in time.
-Contrary to what people may think, the Free Drink Stand in the casino will not grant any effects to players.
-Meseta shooter is a 4 player game. As you've already seen, shoot targets to earn coins and items. Shooting Mr. Umbra however, will cause it to drop bombs, which will damage enemies and destroy coins and item balls on the field. It will however, drop coins after a while (just like how it already drops a paltry sum of meseta when you fail that e-trial)

Xaeris
Aug 12, 2014, 10:25 PM
"Justice Crow." lol, okay Sega.

Enforcer MKV
Aug 12, 2014, 10:29 PM
I'm....actually starting to get hyped for this.

Man, please don't let this suck...

BIG OLAF
Aug 12, 2014, 10:35 PM
"Harukotan" is a stupid name.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Aug 12, 2014, 10:35 PM
Hm, so they can buff while attacking...

...I wonder if they'll have a Zondeel-inducing PA.

Kondibon
Aug 12, 2014, 10:44 PM
"Harukotan" is a stupid name.What's stupid about it?


Hm, so they can buff while attacking...

...I wonder if they'll have a Zondeel-inducing PA.They might, but not at launch.

Mega Ultra Chicken
Aug 12, 2014, 10:49 PM
They might, but not at launch. That would be a bit disappointing if we didn't get it for a while.

I still wonder if these going to be T-ATK using PAs, or just S-ATK PAs with buffs mixed in.

Sanguine2009
Aug 12, 2014, 10:53 PM
nice~ so thats what the bio weapons for bouncer look like

Kondibon
Aug 12, 2014, 11:15 PM
MFW none of the Dual Blade PAs are called "Freedom Eagle"
http://vnafmamn.com/photos/eagle_mourning_web.jpg

HeyItsTHK
Aug 12, 2014, 11:31 PM
Good god, a PA that can put down Zanverse

Kondibon
Aug 12, 2014, 11:40 PM
I find it interesting that the auto tech PAs have a whole seperate animation after the first one when they're charged. I really hope this means that the PAs are strong enough uncharged that you don't need to charge them if you don't want the support techs to go off.

EDIT: To clarify what I mean, Geist sends you into the air, but the shifta part brings you back to the ground, being counter to what you might want to use it for (aerial combat), and Gran Wave is an approach, but the deband part is a retreat. Moment Gale might be the only one worth charging for more damage depending on how much the breakdance kicks do.

GHNeko
Aug 13, 2014, 01:27 AM
Moment Gale will cast MOTHER FUCKING ZANVERSE. Any techs coming off charged PAs do not consume additional PP.

[spoiler-box][spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/V3rmiPx.png[/spoiler-box]
[spoiler-box]NSFW Warning[spoiler-box]SEGAAAAAAAAA

http://i.imgur.com/dzIvIUq.jpg[/spoiler-box][/spoiler-box]

[/spoiler-box]

Darki
Aug 13, 2014, 01:32 AM
I just love those toy darkers. This is going to be my fav planet for a while.

GHNeko
Aug 13, 2014, 01:33 AM
Toy Darkers are great man.

They need to go more abstract with these darkers. It makes them that much more appealing.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 01:35 AM
I dunno why people are all surprised about a PA that casts Zanverse when we saw it quite plainly in the trailer. >_>

Darki
Aug 13, 2014, 01:35 AM
There's something almost "Alice: Madness Returns" on the idea of giant creepy toy enemies. The only thing I hope is that Hakurotan has a map that isn't an old Japanese setting. I hope the map for the "kuro" nation is more abstract. That paired with toy enemies will be just awesome.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 01:37 AM
There's something almost "Alice: Madness Returns" on the idea of giant creepy toy enemies. The only thing I hope is that Hakurotan has a map that isn't an old Japanese setting. I hope the map for the "kuro" nation is more abstract. That paired with toy enemies will be just awesome.It's not like the toy darkers are only gonna appear there anyway. :P They're still Darkers and they're likely gonna pop up in new EQs and LQs and new areas that get added.

Zyrusticae
Aug 13, 2014, 01:39 AM
Toy darkers...

So Elder was golems and fish things, Apprentice was insectoids, Double will be toys, Luther/Loser was bird-types... what will Persona have? Or will Persona not have darkers of his/her own?

I would be very sad if this is the last we see of the new darker types. Haha, who am I kidding, they can just invent a new Falz out of thin air just like they did with Luther. So what will the next type be after toy-types, I wonder...? I'm hoping for dragons. Darker-ized dragons.

Darki
Aug 13, 2014, 01:42 AM
Dragons would kinda be redundant given that we got dragonkin, but since PS games tend to overdo on the dragon lore, you might be onto something.

Just to be sure, I'm kinda lost with who is who. There was Gettemhart turned Falz, Elder. The little kids are Double, and the girl Falz is Apprentice. Who's Loser? Isn't he the masked guy?

Tyreek
Aug 13, 2014, 01:45 AM
Dragons would kinda be redundant given that we got dragonkin, but since PS games tend to overdo on the dragon lore, you might be onto something.

Just to be sure, I'm kinda lost with who is who. There was Gettemhart turned Falz, Elder. The little kids are Double, and the girl Falz is Apprentice. Who's Loser? Isn't he the masked guy?

[spoiler-box]Luther[/spoiler-box]

Maenara
Aug 13, 2014, 01:47 AM
Dragons would kinda be redundant given that we got dragonkin, but since PS games tend to overdo on the dragon lore, you might be onto something.

Just to be sure, I'm kinda lost with who is who. There was Gettemhart turned Falz, Elder. The little kids are Double, and the girl Falz is Apprentice. Who's Loser? Isn't he the masked guy?

Loser is Luther, a guy you do not start seeing until Chapter 2. Persona is maximum spoiler alert.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 01:48 AM
That entire post is spoilers honestly. >_>

GHNeko
Aug 13, 2014, 01:52 AM
I dunno why people are all surprised about a PA that casts Zanverse when we saw it quite plainly in the trailer. >_>

I'll be honest

I completely spaced and forgot about this.

But my hype will not be contained by your...your...logic.

Let my heart fly free and beat the sounds of LOOOOOVE

DOKI DOKI DOKI DOKI

Darki
Aug 13, 2014, 01:52 AM
Oh okay. sorry for that then <_< I guess I should get my ass into the MB a bit more.

Maenara
Aug 13, 2014, 01:56 AM
That entire post is spoilers honestly. >_>

but its fucking obvious

GHNeko
Aug 13, 2014, 01:58 AM
It doesnt matter?

Just because something is obvious for you doesnt mean anything. People can have suspicions but nothing is confirmed which allows them to keep a suspension of disbelief.

Be nice man.

That's the whole point of spoiler tags. So you dont ruin it for people who dont want spoilers, no matter how obvious shit is.

Maenara
Aug 13, 2014, 01:59 AM
It'd be nice if there weren't 5378674689684566582819764827369 people who have been completely avoiding doing the matter board who are suddenly caring about spoilers.

EvilMag
Aug 13, 2014, 02:00 AM
Honestly you've already spoiled yourself by playing the Falz Loser EQ in the first place.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 02:01 AM
It'd be nice if there weren't 5378674689684566582819764827369 people who have been completely avoiding doing the matter board who are suddenly caring about spoilers.I did it. I personally don't mind being spoiled since it's not like I can do the matter boards in english anyway. I still try to be considerate.

Maenara
Aug 13, 2014, 02:02 AM
Honestly you've already spoiled yourself by playing the Falz Loser EQ in the first place.

Pretty much.

GHNeko
Aug 13, 2014, 02:03 AM
It'd be nice if there weren't 5378674689684566582819764827369 people who have been completely avoiding doing the matter board who are suddenly caring about spoilers.

That's honestly irrelevant. Some people can be slow players. They can have busy lives or are caught up with other shit in the game.

It's just fucking common courtesy man. People dont visibly bitch about spoilers because a majority of people practice common courtesy and use spoiler tags.


Honestly you've already spoiled yourself by playing the Falz Loser EQ in the first place.

Depends. You can know of loser but know absolutely NOTHING about Loser. And it's the details in that are important to some people. I've played Loser EQ dozens of times, but I dont know shit ABOUT the character Loser because I havnt gotten that far into the story yet. When I get there, yeah aspects will be spoiled however, there could easily be something that I just didnt know.

Either way this is going on a huge fucking tangent.

The point of the matter is, it's common courtesy to use spoiler tags so you dont ruin story points for people no matter how slow they are. You dont know how much other people care or dont care so don't make any assumptions and just spoiler your shit to be safe.

It's really just that simple.

Maenara
Aug 13, 2014, 02:06 AM
Snape kills Dumbledore. Soylent green is people. Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker. I don't need to spoiler these, because at some point, it's deemed pointless to go out of your way to do so.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 02:08 AM
Snape kills Dumbledore. Soylent green is people. Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker. I don't need to spoiler these, because at some point, it's deemed pointless to go out of your way to do so.It's a time thing. Generally it's considered ok to talk about spoilers after something has been known for about a year or two, depending on how available the media is. Because PSO2s story isn't easily accessable in english however, you should take into account people who are waiting for the english patch specifically.

EDIT: It's perfectly fine to talk about spoilers in a thread or whatever specifically for talking about the story/plot. If someone goes in a thread that outright says it's about the story and doesn't expect to get spoiled then that's on them.

Xaelouse
Aug 13, 2014, 02:10 AM
how about beast darkers? Delbiter needs to be brought back somehow.
Speaking of which, there hasn't been anything new with naberius natives for 2 years now..

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 02:13 AM
how about beast darkers? Delbiter needs to be brought back somehow.
Speaking of which, there hasn't been anything new with naberius natives for 2 years now..Probably because we're done with Naberius. It was only important because lolfalz, and now he's not there anymore.

GHNeko
Aug 13, 2014, 02:16 AM
It's a time thing. Generally it's considered ok to talk about spoilers after something has been known for about a year or two, depending on how available the media is. Because PSO2s story isn't easily accessable in english however, you should take into account people who are waiting for the english patch specifically.

EDIT: It's perfectly fine to talk about spoilers in a thread or whatever specifically for talking about the story/plot. If someone goes in a thread that outright says it's about the story and doesn't expect to get spoiled then that's on them.

Pretty much this.

But again, this thread is going on a complete tangent.


BO has innate access to Zanverse.

What the fuck more could ANYONE want?

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 02:17 AM
BO has innate access to Zanverse.

What the fuck more could ANYONE want?
It's really not that big of a deal unless the PA part of it does a bunch of damage too. If it doesn't then you'd be better off casting Zanverse normally and using a stronger PA in the field.

EDIT: Also, I just rewatched the videos and you can JA right before and right after the support tech part of the PAs, so what I was hoping about the charged and uncharged versions having the same damage is probably not true. :/

GHNeko
Aug 13, 2014, 02:20 AM
No no no no no.


You really dont get the glory that is gift from the wind gods, Zanverse.

I get to cast Zanverse from a PA at no extra charge?

Wind Masteries effect zanverse damage.

What about territory burst? Does that apply to this Zanverse PA?

Think of how fast we can open Luther clocks now! No more time outs!

You can be on the front line and then BAM. Zanverse. Now EVERYONE is doing REAL Soviet Damage.

Oh what's this? The FO in the back busy casting IRUMEGIDO is too far away to cast Zanverse?

DONT WORRY. BOUNCER IS HERE.

BAM NIGGA. Zanverse! FROM A PA.

It's like a dream come true!

I mean it's probably not going to be faster than my 0.5sec Concentrated Zanverse but...

Come on man.

It's Zanverse.

Fucking. ZANVERSE.

How can you NOT be hype?!


Zanverse is love. Zanverse is life.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 02:23 AM
Don't get me wrong. The PA looks cool, and fuck yeah break dancing. The Zanverse thing just isn't going to be the primary reason I use it. Don't forget that it's at the end of a PA with a long animation and then puts you in another long animation. So if you just need Zanverse then casting it normally would be better.

I'm more excited about the shifta and Deband, because forget trying to maintain them mid combat at melee range I:

GHNeko
Aug 13, 2014, 02:26 AM
Yeah prob. But it's okay because Zanverse makes up for it.

That being said, being able to cast S/D from PAs is super sweet. I'm hoping it's potency is tied to the level disc you have and is not like S-Blades from PSO1 where the S/D you get from the Extra attack is pathetic.

I dont want to cast Shifaride from my PA. I want Level 16 S/D from my PAs because I hunted the disc don't tie them to just FO/TE man.

But I do wonder if shit like territory burst or Shifta Strike or Deband Toughness will also apply to the S/D casted from the PAs.

That would make the support capabilities absolutely cuhrazy.

EDIT: Maintaining S/D isnt hard mid-combat if you've crafted then to charge fast enough. It's really surprising where and how many Zanverses I can fit in at just 0.6sec charge time. 0.5 is gonna be silly.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 02:29 AM
Well they've proven that they can force you to use a tech or PA you don't have, at level 1, with those weapons they released that have fixed PAs. So it's probably possible that it IS the same shifta/deband/zanverse you have and if the person doesn't have it, then they just cast it at level one.

I really do hope it counts though because otherwise TE/BO is gonna be boring. I:

GALEFORCE
Aug 13, 2014, 02:41 AM
It's not like shifta levels make a lick of difference with how bad it is at the moment. It'll mostly be good to activate shifta strike if you're a techer main. It could also be tied to the PA's level, of course.

I'm still hoping to see offensive autocasting PAs. I want a meteor kick!

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 02:44 AM
I just meant that if they're using the players version of it then they're probably compatable with anything that would effect them, unlike from say, a mag, or those plliars in the ruins.

GALEFORCE
Aug 13, 2014, 02:47 AM
I'm thinking they'll be their own thing, tied to the PA itself. Mostly because I can't imagine these autocasted techs benefiting from crafts. I do really hope they benefit from techer's skills though.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 02:49 AM
I don't see why they would work with one but not the other, but I can see how that would be kinda broken.

GALEFORCE
Aug 13, 2014, 02:54 AM
I'm thinking more along the lines of technicalities. PP reductions probably wouldn't work unless they coded it to give you a refund when performing a full charge. Charge reductions I could maybe see happening. Damage and radius bonuses would still work you'd think. I guess I'm assuming SEGA is gonna be too lazy to fix certain crafting traits and not others, so they'd just make it so they don't work at all.

GHNeko
Aug 13, 2014, 03:04 AM
I was thinking strictly skills. I dont think the base stats of the skills are overwritten but the crafts are just applied as you hit the button to cast/charge.

Then again I could be wrong.

Then again I could be wrong, but then the shifta/deband from the PA have their own values that copy base values and are adjusted based on your tech level.

There are literally dozens of ways to go about this.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 03:05 AM
I was saying I think it's going to be the other way around and the result of not fixing it is going to be overlooking it so we DO get all the changes that apply, but not the ones that don't. Which is why I said I feel it could be broken.

Poyonche
Aug 13, 2014, 04:52 AM
Am i the only one wondering what is dat A.I.S picture + Luther's one right corner down ? :3

Rakurai
Aug 13, 2014, 05:09 AM
They're just recapping the episode 2 updates.

Poyonche
Aug 13, 2014, 05:46 AM
Oh ok, thanks

LonelyGaruga
Aug 13, 2014, 02:54 PM
I'm not seeing any reason to believe that the techs cast by Jet Boots' PAs are actually the same as the proper techs. It appears to me that each tech's effect is simply triggered during the corresponding PAs. The PA that casts Shifta doesn't cast Shifta, but triggers a field identical to Shifta, and the same for other techs the PAs enable. You aren't actually using the techs, you're just triggering identical effects. It wouldn't make sense for the majority of the craft recipes to work with the PAs at all. Multi and Wide Area effects might work, but I wouldn't expect them to, since they should be tied to the tech, and not the effect the tech triggers.

On the other hand, skills should work perfectly fine for them. A Shifta from any source should benefit Shifta Advance/Critical/Strike, a Zanverse from Moment Gale should benefit from Wind Masteries, stuff like that. Territory Burst should also work, but TB PP Save probably won't, since these are PAs and not techs.

ShinMaruku
Aug 13, 2014, 05:14 PM
MFW none of the Dual Blade PAs are called "Freedom Eagle"
http://vnafmamn.com/photos/eagle_mourning_web.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyelHmwRUCc

Eagles swoop in and fuck up your day. Nothing free about them.

Perfect Chaos
Aug 13, 2014, 05:40 PM
I find it interesting that the auto tech PAs have a whole seperate animation after the first one when they're charged. I really hope this means that the PAs are strong enough uncharged that you don't need to charge them if you don't want the support techs to go off.

EDIT: To clarify what I mean, Geist sends you into the air, but the shifta part brings you back to the ground, being counter to what you might want to use it for (aerial combat), and Gran Wave is an approach, but the deband part is a retreat.

Also, I just rewatched the videos and you can JA right before and right after the support tech part of the PAs, so what I was hoping about the charged and uncharged versions having the same damage is probably not true. :/Seeing that the JA circle appears all throughout Strike Geist's attack animation, it has got me thinking that it'll be possible to interrupt it at anytime during the attack. So you don't have to do the final slam+Shifta if you don't want to by just performing another attack before then. This would also allow you to attack during any height during Strike Geist's ascension. And for Gran Wave, it looks like the JA circle appears right when Deband is cast, before the retreat (and throughout the retreat as well), so perhaps attacking quick enough would let you get the Deband trigger but not have to retreat (or retreat only a little by delaying the attack interruption by various amounts)? If this is all possible, then charging the PA would still give you the option of not getting the side effects of the Tech part.

Great Pan
Aug 13, 2014, 08:01 PM
Btw, what does Zanverse do? All I do is spam Ill Megid.

final_attack
Aug 13, 2014, 08:12 PM
About 20% of any damage done by players (entire mpa) inside Zanverse will be dealt to their respective target. That damage done is considered as the Zanverse caster's damage. With each hit got a chance to inflict Mirage.

That's as far as I know though.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 08:21 PM
Seeing that the JA circle appears all throughout Strike Geist's attack animation, it has got me thinking that it'll be possible to interrupt it at anytime during the attack. So you don't have to do the final slam+Shifta if you don't want to by just performing another attack before then. This would also allow you to attack during any height during Strike Geist's ascension. And for Gran Wave, it looks like the JA circle appears right when Deband is cast, before the retreat (and throughout the retreat as well), so perhaps attacking quick enough would let you get the Deband trigger but not have to retreat (or retreat only a little by delaying the attack interruption by various amounts)? If this is all possible, then charging the PA would still give you the option of not getting the side effects of the Tech part.I pretty clearly saw the JA circle disappear for two of them. I think it's like the flurishes with partisans. My point though was that if you can inturrupt it before the tech part that the uncharged versions will probably still be weaker.

SakoHaruo
Aug 13, 2014, 08:33 PM
What if they implement fighting game mechanics, like... holding down a button for charge techs and still being able to use your PAs? Then, when the time is right and you want to use your charged tech, you just remove for finger off the button. I good example of this would be Juri from Street Fighter 4.

Nah, Sega isn't that good in bed, and that's way too advance for PSO2. o3o

CricketJam
Aug 13, 2014, 08:45 PM
About 20% of any damage done by players (entire mpa) inside Zanverse will be dealt to their respective target. That damage done is considered as the Zanverse caster's damage. With each hit got a chance to inflict Mirage.

That's as far as I know though.

To add to this, zanverse damage is also multiplied by 3 with Weak Bullet. So since it's a separate hit, it actually does 60% damage (plus caster's wind passives, etc) of WB boosted MPA damage. Not OP or anything.

Gama
Aug 13, 2014, 08:48 PM
What i see is Bouncer with boots using a T mag, and dual saber bouncer usinf a S mag.

meaning this will be braver all over again mag wize, with the weird dex hybrid in the middle.

cant wait to see the skilltree...

GHNeko
Aug 13, 2014, 09:02 PM
To add to this, zanverse damage is also multiplied by 3 with Weak Bullet. So since it's a separate hit, it actually does 60% damage (plus caster's wind passives, etc) of WB boosted MPA damage. Not OP or anything.

It's not and if you think it is then I need to show something in this dark alleyway off to the east of here.

Kondibon
Aug 13, 2014, 11:12 PM
What i see is Bouncer with boots using a T mag, and dual saber bouncer usinf a S mag.

meaning this will be braver all over again mag wize, with the weird dex hybrid in the middle.

cant wait to see the skilltree...Well they already said that they're intentionally building it so it's better to focus on one or the other.

gigawuts
Aug 13, 2014, 11:17 PM
Well they already said that they're intentionally building it so it's better to focus on one or the other.

Which is beyond ridiculous.

If they wanted two classes they should have made two classes.

But then how would they sell spare skilltrees?

Dark Emerald EXE
Aug 13, 2014, 11:20 PM
What i see is Bouncer with boots using a T mag, and dual saber bouncer usinf a S mag.

meaning this will be braver all over again mag wize, with the weird dex hybrid in the middle.

cant wait to see the skilltree...


please dont say that lol

Misaki Ki
Aug 14, 2014, 12:24 AM
I need Arcane Warrior's Combat Magic mode in this game.

Kondibon
Aug 14, 2014, 12:37 AM
Which is beyond ridiculous.

If they wanted two classes they should have made two classes.

But then how would they sell spare skilltrees?Well technically it's the weapon focus, not the class focus. A lot of the support stuff will likely still work regardless of what weapon you focus on.

It's still a blatant cash grab though like all the skill trees. :/

The Walrus
Aug 14, 2014, 12:44 AM
If only Sega just made it so you can do two different things with the trees that don't force you into one weapon or the other. Ya know, like Hunter.

GHNeko
Aug 14, 2014, 12:53 AM
Or they can make a class that doesnt suffer for focusing on more than one thing.


Like seriously.

Why is this not a more common practice? What am I not understanding?

The Walrus
Aug 14, 2014, 01:03 AM
Sega wants people to buy more skill trees. Simple as that.

And what's wrong with being able to do more than one thing with a tree, or am I simply misunderstanding what you mean with that first sentence?

Xaelouse
Aug 14, 2014, 01:05 AM
Jet Boots and Dual Blades both look redundant when used with each other anyway. Apparently dual blades will have ranged attacks too, probably like wired lance/partizan's recent PAs. Coupled with access to Hunter weapons and hell even zondeel, would HU/BO really need the Jet Boots at all? Unless the dual blades suck, of course, but now you're forced into wasting points on switch strike.
With their focus on balance they promised, no weapon should be left behind anymore, so there should be no regrets in what weapon you choose. Surely they wont repeat the same mistake they did when Braver got released, right? With katana being so abysmal at first :/

GHNeko
Aug 14, 2014, 01:11 AM
Sega wants people to buy more skill trees. Simple as that.

And what's wrong with being able to do more than one thing with a tree, or am I simply misunderstanding what you mean with that first sentence?

You and I both know that specializing produces far better results because multipliers.

There should be more skills like Tech PA Arts on the FI tree. More skill like Fury stance (in the sense that 2 types of attacks get bonuses)

There should be skills that encourage and reward people to go strike/tech hybrid, or range/strike hybrid or tech/range hybrid.

This is what I mean.

It's more rewarding to focus strictly on strike than it is to split your focus between to things and use your extra utility to more than make up for your loss in specialization.

Kondibon
Aug 14, 2014, 01:20 AM
Jet Boots and Dual Blades both look redundant when used with each other anyway. Apparently dual blades will have ranged attacks too, probably like wired lance/partizan's recent PAs. Coupled with access to Hunter weapons and hell even zondeel, would HU/BO really need the Jet Boots at all? Unless the dual blades suck, of course, but now you're forced into wasting points on switch strike.
With their focus on balance they promised, no weapon should be left behind anymore, so there should be no regrets in what weapon you choose. Surely they wont repeat the same mistake they did when Braver got released, right? With katana being so abysmal at first :/One of the main reasons Braver started so bad was a poor weapon selection. With crafting and bio weapons bouncer should at least have access to decent stuff we can compare to existing things.

Nitro Vordex
Aug 14, 2014, 01:26 AM
You and I both know that specializing produces far better results because multipliers.

There should be more skills like Tech PA Arts on the FI tree. More skill like Fury stance (in the sense that 2 types of attacks get bonuses)

There should be skills that encourage and reward people to go strike/tech hybrid, or range/strike hybrid or tech/range hybrid.

This is what I mean.

It's more rewarding to focus strictly on strike than it is to split your focus between to things and use your extra utility to more than make up for your loss in specialization.
This is the big problem. The game still focuses on you always focusing on one thing, and one thing only. The game simply isn't built for what it was originally advertised for.

GHNeko
Aug 14, 2014, 01:29 AM
Which is why I'm tearing out my proverbial hair when I question why can Sega not get it right when, at least too me, it is not terribly hard to create a hybrid capable class/skill tree that allows someone to split their focus and not suffer in the long run.

Niggas who dont do some off the wall shit like BRTE Melee/Field like I do, dont know the pain and suffering of lacking multipliers. I literally have to go out of my way to affix, craft my techs, and take fucking static stat buff skills just to boost my damage to something remotely respectable.

It's maddening.

HeyItsTHK
Aug 14, 2014, 01:34 AM
Are there games that honestly do the hybrid thing well?

GHNeko
Aug 14, 2014, 01:55 AM
MMORPGs? Or just Games in general?

Kondibon
Aug 14, 2014, 02:04 AM
Are there games that honestly do the hybrid thing well?GW2 does hybriding better than PSO2 and that game is notorious for having the same DEEPS 4 LIEF meta as PSO2. It does it better because it's possible to be a hybrid without loosing all your damage. Hell even support is more viable as a secondarty thing.

ShinMaruku
Aug 14, 2014, 02:12 AM
Well GW2 is a MMO and NCSoft while a shit hole has quality talent.

But really you expected this class to be good first go around?

Mega Ultra Chicken
Aug 14, 2014, 02:22 AM
Are there games that honestly do the hybrid thing well?

I guess there's some of it in World of Warcraft, which has, among other things:

-Skull-like projectiles worked into the Unholy Death Knight rotation to charge up your minion's transformation
-Ranged spells worked into the Enhancement Shaman rotation for DOTs and extra DPS
-Emergency tank mode Glyph for Warlocks
-Some healing specs that can also deal some damage

But even then, it's somewhat limited. For example, Druids are capable of any role in the game, but they must choose one of four things to specialize in. Monks are more limited, for they cannot heal at all if they are in their tank or DPS spec.

GHNeko
Aug 14, 2014, 02:24 AM
I think PSO2 has more room for hybriding because it's an ARPG.

Things like frame data, invulnerability for dodging, counters, just defends, meter management. These are all aspects fighting games have (and that PSO2 has), and fighting games is like the go to genre for asymmetrical balance.


Well GW2 is a MMO and NCSoft while a shit hole has quality talent.

But really you expected this class to be good first go around?

Well the new guy has my hopes up.

I'll admit that much.

And I'm a lover of all things interesting and I'm also a fan of anything blacksmithing in RPGs, so BO is kinda up my alley as well.

ShinMaruku
Aug 14, 2014, 02:26 AM
New guy is still constrained by the old guy's fuck ups.

GHNeko
Aug 14, 2014, 02:31 AM
But as you can see he's already making big changes from the get go.

He's not incapable of shifting the game over a period of time.

People were bitching and complaining about TA nerfs but he did it anyways and now a lot less people (to me anyways) are complaining because they know he knows better than the last guy.

ShinMaruku
Aug 14, 2014, 02:36 AM
It will take time to fix it. But really I hope there is a bigger overhaul in the future, completely wipe the past git's work.

Kondibon
Aug 14, 2014, 03:21 AM
Well GW2 is a MMO and NCSoft while a shit hole has quality talent.

But really you expected this class to be good first go around?MMO or not I had dungeons in mind when I brought that up and Dungeons in GW2 are instanced content with a limit of 5 players so...

But no, who's expecting the class to be good from the start? o wo

GHNeko
Aug 14, 2014, 04:07 AM
BR wasnt good at first. Everyone went "meh" at braver on release. I still remember the threads on how underwhelming and weak BR was.

Look at it now. A few new weapons, pas, and potentials? lol shiiiiiiit.

It's been the scapegoat for months now lol. the amount of Shunka johns are too real.

And WB gets away scot-free for the most part lmfao.

I don't expect BO to be great from the get go. I expect it to be decent.

What I do expect is that it's skill tree is SOLID and allows for utility and effectiveness for those who truly take the time to learn the class and use it to its fullest.

redroses
Aug 14, 2014, 04:11 AM
I just hope that BO main with jet boots focus will be good. I am mostly seeing everybody mention jet boot BO as a sub :c

Rakurai
Aug 14, 2014, 04:50 AM
Unless BO has a good main class only skill, most people are probably to going to stick to using it as a sub.

Which is a problem BR has. There's no reason to main it when it doesn't even have an exclusive skill at the moment.

TheAstarion
Aug 14, 2014, 07:24 AM
The only reason to main BR is for BR-only weapons, which is pretty much Orochiagito, Yasha and some bows. And there are a lot of all-class or at least multi-class bows.

I don't see sub-BO as necessarily a bad thing; Weak Stance was Weak Hit Advance (ok, Ranger had two of WHA) with upgrades for its downsides, I'm guessing Elemental Stance will be Elemental Weak Hit with boosts to make it attractive measured against the downsides. Boot FOBO with element conversion, charge escape during ilfoie and such will be a welcome change to people who ran FOFI, FOGU, FOTE and FOBR for just the power boosts. FOBO has new weapon, new PA novelty.

And in the early days of a class, letting people bring a lv20 sub with a good proportion of skill tree bonuses to SH content isn't -necessarily- a disaster, especially when my zanverse brings all the noobs to the yard.

I'm not a massive fan of the main class only skills, personally. Not their effectiveness, more that they are things everyone should have access to. Techer, especially in future, is a prime offender, its biggest boost is going to be 10% damage for the whole MPA as long as the TE can remember to keep popping Shifta. Hopefully Bouncer will have more than just its deband PP regen boost, maybe a vampire effect under Shifta? Would be a little OP, sure, but it would cement Techer as a decent combo for Bouncer. Force's Element Conversion is more of a Techer skill... Force is more about brute forcing damage from its arsenal, Techer is more about nailing the weaknesses because it has to. Fighter's crits are how crits should be working anyway, though I have to admit I kind of like the control we have over our max damage with criticals being the lemon they are. Hunter is the only main class only skill that I can really defend on today's money, but I fear that the Hunter weapon improvements will be centered around needing it.

Episode 3 can not come fast enough... Bouncer is everything I've ever wanted from a hybrid combo, all rolled into one class. If it doesn't have identity at launch, that just means they're trying to let the community roll with it and see how it -gets- played, not how it's necessarily intended. Most class buffs (and indeed nerfs) are based on usage stats... if Braver gets some more main class things further down the line then it sets a precedent for Bouncer too.

Enforcer MKV
Aug 14, 2014, 08:25 AM
You and I both know that specializing produces far better results because multipliers.

I...actually wish they'd cut a bunch of the multipliers out of the game and just bring everyone's damage down.

The amount of damage some people can do is just....well, it trivializes the game and sucks all the fun right out of it.

GHNeko
Aug 14, 2014, 10:01 AM
I...actually wish they'd cut a bunch of the multipliers out of the game and just bring everyone's damage down.

The amount of damage some people can do is just....well, it trivializes the game and sucks all the fun right out of it.


Agreed.

It not only trivializes the game, but it sets a precedent for the meta, and now you kinda are given 2 options in regards to playing with randoms more often then not.

Play like everyone else do to the insane amounts of damage end-game meta expects of you, or dont; and get carried/kicked/booted/blacklisted/insulted/etc.

Which is absolutely silly.

WNxTyr4el
Aug 14, 2014, 10:11 AM
Those jet boots!

Want!

gigawuts
Aug 14, 2014, 10:31 AM
Agreed.

It not only trivializes the game, but it sets a precedent for the meta, and now you kinda are given 2 options in regards to playing with randoms more often then not.

Play like everyone else do to the insane amounts of damage end-game meta expects of you, or dont; and get carried/kicked/booted/blacklisted/insulted/etc.

Which is absolutely silly.

I still say it's an inevitable result of the extremely low droprates.

If the game launched like this everyone would have gotten bored immediately, but by launching with low multipliers and extremely low droprates then all anyone eventually cared about was just getting the goddamn items.

Which meant either boosted droprates, or boosted kill rates to increase the number of drops and brute force the rares into showing up by way of power creep. Keep playing to get rare items -> get more rare items with rare item. Aww, can't get the rare item? Get premium and you can get a trade pass!

It was likely the plan all along, the same way they intentionally launched with only PSO1 classes and very PSO1-y aesthetics but slowly brought in bits of PSU here and there after launching.

Rien
Aug 14, 2014, 10:56 AM
Agreed.

It not only trivializes the game, but it sets a precedent for the meta, and now you kinda are given 2 options in regards to playing with randoms more often then not.

Play like everyone else do to the insane amounts of damage end-game meta expects of you, or dont; and get carried/kicked/booted/blacklisted/insulted/etc.

Which is absolutely silly.

Then a lot of the content will suddenly skyrocket in difficulty to the point nobody can hope to beat it without an organized and optimized party, leaving the players who are not geared as well end up in a neverending money-earning loop until they can even try to get themselves in one (did I forget to say that's why I'm mad at the TACO money nerf?). Not that it isn't already happening with TD3, but I feel TD3 is more of a range>melee issue than a gear issue.

Don't get me wrong, there should be some content like that, but with where 11 and 12* endgame stuff comes from, I don't want that specific content to be obtained that way.

GHNeko
Aug 14, 2014, 11:29 AM
You say as if that can't be fixed as well.

Or as if that would be the only thing being fixed.

That also assumes content skyrocks in difficulty, which I dont believe would happen because the game suffers from power creep. The game gets progressively easier as you get stronger because the multipliers boost your strength exponentially.

And even then, the gap in player capacity and game difficulty is still vast.

As a BRTE without a lot of melee multipliers, the game is still trivial on SH and I'm not even rocking super affixes yet.

The difficulty in SH comes from the weight of punishment handed to players who make a mistake. Stunlocks and minimal down time from mooks make SH hard, and that is circumvented by player skill. Not gear or damage.

Sandmind
Aug 14, 2014, 04:44 PM
It's really not that big of a deal unless the PA part of it does a bunch of damage too. If it doesn't then you'd be better off casting Zanverse normally and using a stronger PA in the field.

EDIT: Also, I just rewatched the videos and you can JA right before and right after the support tech part of the PAs, so what I was hoping about the charged and uncharged versions having the same damage is probably not true. :/

Think of those PA as Heel Stab. The kicks part stay the same charged or uncharged and the later is still good in it's own way.

HeyItsTHK
Aug 14, 2014, 05:23 PM
GW2 does hybriding better than PSO2 and that game is notorious for having the same DEEPS 4 LIEF meta as PSO2. It does it better because it's possible to be a hybrid without loosing all your damage. Hell even support is more viable as a secondarty thing.

As an engineer are 'nades still the best or nah? Like PSO2 there ARE other viable options BUT there always seem to be that BEST thing that brings in the mindset of "why do x when you can do y?"

Gardios
Aug 14, 2014, 06:54 PM
If you want the best DEEPZ possible because you want to speedrun with a static group... you shouldn't be playing engineer. lol

In every other PvE case, no one cares what you're using. Bombs have higher DEEPZ than grenades though.

Kondibon
Aug 14, 2014, 06:57 PM
As an engineer are 'nades still the best or nah? Like PSO2 there ARE other viable options BUT there always seem to be that BEST thing that brings in the mindset of "why do x when you can do y?"It's naids and bombs but a Naids/bomb engie can still bring healing turret and there are plenty of traits worth bringing that make bombs supporty.
Also, multi kit builds are a thing.
Like, I know it's not perfect, but my point was that it's possible and infact the less team support you have the less your class is wanted. Necros can do great damage but they lack easy to access blast finishers for might stacking and most of their boons/cleanses gets beat out by guardians, and mesmers.

Like people will actively get mad if you're playing a "selfish" build because the idea is to boost everyone's damage, not just yours.

This is more about going hybrid with support. It's easy as piss to go hybrid with ranged/melee or burst/sustain. That likely has more to do with the offensive stats not being split. I honestly think this has been the biggest stumbling block for PSO2. I get WHY they did it. It's a legacy thing, and it becomes more complicated to balance things when there's only one offensive stat for every attack in the game ever. It just actively discourages going hybrid.


If you want the best DEEPZ possible because you want to speedrun with a static group... you shouldn't be playing engineer. lol

In every other PvE case, no one cares what you're using. Bombs have higher DEEPZ than grenades though.
This is all true. It's worth noting that I was thinking of Ele, Mesmer, and Guardian when I brought up GW2. = w=