What do you think the most broken class/subclass is now?

[Mopop]

I know it used to be Braver/Hunter, but this is a brave new world.

Just curious what you think been hearing that Bouncer/Fighter is pretty broke right now? Thoughts?

[Z-0]

Bouncer is not broken at all. In fact, it's probably the least broken class because it's not that great in comparison to the rest. With its current PAs, it's definitely one of the most poor, but this could very well change in the future with new PAs (much like Braver did). Bouncer is broken for killing bosses, but only if Photon Blade Fever is up, which is less than half the time.

The most broken are TeBr, RaHu, RaBr, FoTe, FoFi and FoBr, I would say.

I made a really long post in the TA thread on how classes stand in general:

[spoiler-box]
I missed this, but I'll answer it anyway. The current metas are as follows:

God-tier:
FiHu
RaHu
RaBr
FoTe
FoBr
TeBr

High-tier:
BrHu
Gu/X (probably, I haven't actually messed with this but everybody is telling me it's not so great anymore with the nerf to Fury and S-Roll JA, so this could be anywhere)

OK-tier:
Hunter main

Shit-tier:
Anything bouncer

I feel like FoFi should go somewhere, but Nabarta isn't really worthwhile to mention, honestly. FoTe and FoBr can do much better DPS with stronger techniques. It's extremely PP-efficient and easy to use, though.

Fighter, with Limit Break and other various buffs, is a much stronger candidate than it used to be. With the buffs to Assault Buster and Slide End, those PAs are able to hit an average of 50K with proper equipment and buffs. Unfortunately, they're really the only notable PAs of the Hunter arsenal, so playing a Hunter main is pointless as the strongest Partisan (Trident Crusher) is FI-equippable, so you're much better playing Fi or Br as your main. Hunter shall forever be doomed as a subclass, it seems. As always, Backhand Smash is your choice of PA for boss killing.

Ranger is just like it always was, an insane enemy crusher with a plethora of good AoE options. Not easy to play, but extremely rewarding. RaHu is better for general play and AoE options, while RaBr is a much stronger boss candidate with Bow (Master Shoot/Last Nemesis with Banish Arrow). It pretty much got insanely buffed with Episode 3, not nerfed. The largest nerf to Ranger was the projectile change of Satellite Cannon, which now comes from the top instead of the bottom, which ruins a lot of options.

Force got mega-buffed with Episode 3 as well. Ilmegid has always been inferior to other options that FO has, but since Ilmegid was bandwagon good (eg: easy to use for results), the rest of FO's arsenal got buffed pretty significantly. Fire FO and Bolt FO are insanely strong now, and can output huge numbers with their techniques. For example, Foie can easily do 23K~ on non-weak points (but weak enemy) as FoBr, while the other fire techniques will obviously do more, especially in a Zondeel. Zonde got buffed by quite a significant amount too, further increasing the damage of Zondeel > Zonde combos.

As an add, all melee weapons now have Step Attack innate, which means that FoTe is able to step with daggers properly now, furthering their usefulness. Being able to use a really strong T-Atk weapon with Step Attack (Elysion) and faster stepping than before is a much useful skill for TA.

Going from sort of low-tier to God-tier, the new skill "Attack Advance", along with the many TE buffs from Episode 3, have made TeBr a serious new meta. Currently, the best choice for Tower Defenses is now a TE majority, as proper gear and buffs will allow TE to easily one or two shot all Zondeels with heavy enemies such as Goldrahdas and Cyclones. Even for single targets, TeBr is able to output extremely heavy damage, out DPS'ing Braver's Sakura End and Shunka Shunran quite easily.

I can honestly see Techer getting nerfed in the near-future, it is literally THAT overpowered now.

Braver, on the other hand, just keeps receiving nerfs. Going from the very top of the league to standing on its last legs, Braver is able to keep up with the God-tier classes, but it can't really do anything special that the other classes can't do better. Right now, Braver is more of an all-rounder class than anything extremely overpowered (Kanran for AoE, Sakura/Hatou/Shunka for single target DPS, Katana Combat for high powered AoE, etc). With Techer's buff though, Katana Finish's usage is dwindling fast. It's still really good, but comparatively, it's honestly not that great anymore with the nerf to Fury Stance.

Gunner, I can't really comment on too much, but I'm hearing its usage is definitely going down. It's still a -good- class, but the other classes can do things so much better than it now. It most likely has no place in any sort of top-tier party / MPA, but take this with a grain of salt. It didn't have a place in top-tier parties before Episode 3 either, but there could be something good for it out there now with the Chaining Buffs, but once again, I can't really say.

tl;dr of above paragraph: I can't say anything about Gunner.

And lastly, Bouncer is literally nothing but shit right now. It's hype as fuck, and hella flashy, but that's all it really has going for it (apart from support I guess, which TE can do better, along with damage). It's extremely powerful against bosses, but the strongest thing in its arsenal is its Dual Blade gear, which is only really viable for spamming when Photon Blade Fever is up, which has 45 second duration and 120s cooldown, so less than half the time. A few of the Dual Blade PAs are very strong, but their movement makes them extremely unspammy and rather low DPS amongst groups. Jet Boots are honestly just a bad weapon overall. Their damage is rather low and their PAs are extremely gimmicky. Tree is also really bad. Not much to say really... They can work, but that well. Something else is always the better choice usually.

Jet Boots are a very good utility weapon for FO, though. FO is able to take some shortcuts with double-jump Ilzonde, as you don't fall very much at all when charging techs in the air with boots, plus Skyzonde (Double-jump Razonde) can be very useful in some situations. Of course, these utilities are best used on classes such as FoTe, FoBr, etc. with all-class boots (or FO equippable, at least). 5:22 Lilipa as FoTe using Jet Boots strategies (on Nico) (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24372709).

Bouncer has the most potential to change though, since it has a very small selection of PAs. Right now it's definitely the lowest of the low, but perhaps it will break through to the top much like Braver did in the past.

That's my 2 cents on current class standings with Episode 3! I really hope Bouncer does get better though, I really do like their weapons, but I love results much more. ._.

The above is counting all sorts of gameplay modes, such as MPA, AQ, TA, TD, etc, not anything specific.[/spoiler-box]

[Rakurai]

BO/FI with dual blades is ridiculously broken for killing bosses if it's used properly.

For everything else, not so much.

[pkemr4]

GuHu is still going strong

[Zyrusticae]

Really, Hunter main still sub-par, even after the MASSIVE PA buffs it got?

I don't believe it!

[DJcooltrainer]

Ra/Hu seems to be stronger than ever after the PA and skill tree adjustments, even though Sat. Cannon got nerfed. I'm actually scoring top 3 in my TD runs as Ra now, which I almost never did before. Although, I'm starting to think Ra/Br might have more utility...

Fi/Hu seems a little broken, but I haven't had a chance to mess around with it yet personally.

[Daiyousei]

people just have ingrained playstyles, it's not easy to change what you're used to.

[Z-0]

Really, Hunter main still sub-par, even after the MASSIVE PA buffs it got?

I don't believe it!
I'd say so yeah. Swords are still not so great because they're rather tacky. Their problems lie in how their PAs work rather than their damage values, and Katanas also walk all over them unfortunately (plus the Fighter weapons also have better single target damage). Partisans are better than Swords with the buffs to Slide End, Assault Buster and Slide Shaker (among others), and the strongest Partisan is all-class, as is the strongest Wired Lance. I'm not too sure how good Wired Lances are, although I imagine their Holding Current damage is incredible right about now.

people just have ingrained playstyles, it's not easy to change what you're used to.
Not sure what this has to do with a class being the most broken or not... your playstyle doesn't determine what melts through enemies faster.

[Xaelouse]

Pretty sure BHS on FI is dead now. Straight charge and even RNG fist are more worthwhile.

[Flaoc]

so my beloved fi/hu which i played before the buff is now the top tier class? oh man thats awesome (once i get my hu to 70)

[Z-0]

Pretty sure BHS on FI is dead now. Straight charge and even RNG fist are more worthwhile.
You think? It never got a nerf (SEGA stated this specifically on the patch notes, the damage value is just a display change), so it's still as strong as it was before. Well, stronger perhaps, since FI tree got buffed.

[horseship]

RA/HU feels really strong to me right now. I'm hitting 70k cluster bullets in TD with shifta strike with my Vibras Cannon. Goldrahdas just melt as long as I properly hit the weak points... which doesn't always happen for some reason, even though I thought cluster prioritized weak points.

[Alandsmj]

OK tier HUs? (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24373619)

Oh, and they seem to ban any use of AIS. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24374093)

DOES THIS MAKE FI/HU GODGODTIER? (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24363493)

But I do agree that Rafoie FO/TE is basically the new Ilmegid FO/TE in TDs. There is a video somewhere showing a group of Fire FOs doing 4 rounds of TD2 although I lost the link.

[Z-0]

OK tier HUs? (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24373619)

Oh, and they seem to ban any use of AIS. (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24374093)
Definitely OK-tier looking at these videos. I mean, there's 40 seconds remaining on the first wave when they finish. A proper party would easily make that 1:10 or 1:20+.

This looks more like a "look what we can do!!" rather than something showing how good HU is, because a party of Techers, Forces and Rangers would do much, much better than this.

edit: This is the FO video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24351458). I dunno ifi t's actually 4 runs, and it's not just FO, but lol 21k rafoies on non weak spots.

[pkemr4]

GURA is god tier for bossing

http://youtu.be/G5SLT7QxMW0

[UnLucky]

I'm really liking Fo/Fi now. It can actually beat out Fo/Br with either Tech Arts or PP Slayer. Real shame Photon Flare doesn't drop your HP anymore, but PP Convert doesn't count as a status effect like Limit Break, so maybe it's no real loss.

Te/Br is everything wands have always dreamed of.

Ranger anything is too good.

Braver and Hunter mains are about the same as before with the various ups and downs.

[Vintasticvin]

mrglmrglmrglmrglmgrl eveverything is broken nerf them all!

[FerrickX]

at the moment, personally think it's still br/hu and bra

[Alandsmj]

Definitely OK-tier looking at these videos. I mean, there's 40 seconds remaining on the first wave when they finish. A proper party would easily make that 1:10 or 1:20+.

This looks more like a "look what we can do!!" rather than something showing how good HU is, because a party of Techers, Forces and Rangers would do much, much better than this.

Given that they are all sword users and there is no RA for WB nor AIS, I would say the performance is much better than OK. Not as efficient as the godtier classes, but they can pull their own weight, especially with Iron Will/Never Give Up/Automate/Warcry. Personally I would give them A Rank for their all-round effectiveness.

That said, in my opinion almost any class combination in EP3 that knows what they are doing and does it the right way could be an A rank anyway. Even TE/RA could be A or higher tier given a proper team. But that's just my 5 cents.

[Alandsmj]

edit: This is the FO video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24351458). I dunno ifi t's actually 4 runs, and it's not just FO, but lol 21k rafoies on non weak spots.

It's not this one. That video is a bunch of Fire FOs doing Foie/Rafoie/Ilfoie spam with possibly one RA for WB and it only took around 8 minutes. No Ilmegid is used in any situation.

[Kondibon]

Not as efficient as the godtier classes, but they can pull their own weight,

I'm pretty sure that's what OK tier means.

[Alandsmj]

I'm pretty sure that's what OK tier means.

For me OK tier is below the baseline, which means "I don't want to see this class in TD3 but in other quests it's fine". Since HUs can perform well in TD3 as long as they know what they are doing, they are definitely above my OK tier. But it's possibly just the difference of minds when it comes to rating. So I'll just leave it like that.

[UnLucky]

If you can't tolerate them being there then they're not OK..

[Kondibon]

And this is why Tiering stuff without explaining what the tiers mean is bad. We're all gonna have different ideas of what the baseline is.

[Alandsmj]

If you can't tolerate them being there then they're not OK..

Actually it's tolerable when they do their best and coordinate with everyone. It's still two TD3 runs with A or S rank and life has to go on anyway. So yeah, OK tier for me. Fortunately such case is already rare in EP2 since in this game a player's reaction/evaluation to certain situation almost makes a third to half of a character (while the other being numbers/PA and Class mechanics, etc) so even a commonly deemed "low tier class" would be OK tier or even higher for me. Like I said, as long as they know what they are doing and do it at their best.

So my standard for OK might be a bit lower than many of yours.

[Z-0]

God-tier means that the class is entirely capable of carrying something by themselves in one form or another, and is the absolute best for many situations. TeBr and Fire FoTe are fantastic for this during TDs. RA is (and always has been) the best class for AQ'ing and TA'ing (along with Forces), and it goes without saying their bossing potential is unparalleled. I'm actually not sure why I put Fighter there, probably blinded by numbers, because it's not great for TD at all with how the enemies don't have aggro on you by default, but it's very good for other things (although not great for bursts...).

What I put in Good-tier are classes that definitely hold their own, are capable of carrying if you are a good player and know what you're doing. I'd say Braver is definitely not the absolute best for anything anymore with TeBr taking the mobbing spotlight, and Forces / Rangers being much better at killing single targets on their own. Gunner was never god-tier, but definitely high up there with the results it had for the effort you put in. Braver, Forces and Ranger were always much better than it if you knew what you were doing.

OK-tier is just kind of like a class that can work, but it's not really going to carry anything. It can do a job fine, but you won't make any accomplishments with it and you're most likely better just taking something else.

Shit tier is self-explanatory. Bouncer is here because it's exactly that in its current state. It can do things, obviously, but pretty much every other class can do what it does better, and more. As I said beforehand, I really do hope SEGA tweaks Bouncer to be much better, because as awesome as its weapons are, I'd really like to feel like I'm doing well on it.

Of course, my listings aren't concrete and definitely up for debate. Some people dislike tiers, some think they're necessary, personally I like them because they give me an idea of what's better than what. Regardless of your playstyle, some classes are going to be more optimal than others in plenty of situations.

[Gama]

I'm TE/FI and i feel pretty badass with the loads of damage i can do, and on top of that support an entire mpa.

[Remz69]

Fi only hits slightly harder than before for the most part, it definitely doesn't belong in the same tier as Ra and Fo

[EvilMag]

Just so we're on the right page, for Te/Br which stance should I go for again?

[Z-0]

Just so we're on the right page, for Te/Br which stance should I go for again?
Both. Average for generally whacking things, Weak when attacking boss weakpoints (or using some techs, mostly Ilbarta for bossing).

[UnLucky]

Don't really need Average Charge, nor katana or most bow skills (RS Mastery and Advance if you're going for Banish Arrow).

Hopefully the boss has a weak point, weak to ice/dark, or WB. If not, just Attack Advance it to bits. Or even just smack it with Weak Stance on regardless.

[MetalDude]

Seems like you have a ton of points leftover in /BR that you might as well pick up Average Charge. Anything to note about the TE tree itself besides Shifta Strike/Wand Gear stuff/TB?

[EspeonageTieler]

i thought everyone hated TEs

[UnLucky]

Techer was shit and people hated it for that.

Now they do a lot more damage and have legitimate buffs worth casting.

Even Fo/Te is a lot better with TB always on.

[EspeonageTieler]

Techer was shit and people hated it for that.

Now they do a lot more damage and have legitimate buffs worth casting.

Even Fo/Te is a lot better with TB always on.

would a wind build be any good? i really like their wind techs would be cool if it was viable

[ReverseSeraf]

would a wind build be any good? i really like their wind techs would be cool if it was viable

Wind build was always pretty good with Sazan. From what I hear, they buffed Sazan as well as Nazan a lot in this update, soooo...

[the_importer_]

I've only been playing for about 5 months now, what's this broken thing everyone's talking about here? Does mixing some classes cause glitch in the game?

[Kondibon]

I've only been playing for about 5 months now, what's this broken thing everyone's talking about here? Does mixing some classes cause glitch in the game?Broken in game balance terms usually refers to something that, despite technically following the rules of the game, allows you to do things far beyond the game's general balance. It's usually interchangeable with over-powered in these cases.

[Shiyo]

Dual blades FI/BO.

Dual blades BO in general.


Bouncer is not broken at all. In fact, it's probably the least broken class because it's not that great in comparison to the rest. With its current PAs, it's definitely one of the most poor, but this could very well change in the future with new PAs (much like Braver did). .



You really need to stop saying this. It's so fucking wrong it's pathetic at this point. You either A) Have no idea how to play BO or B) Have never played BO.

[Kondibon]

You really need to stop saying this. It's so fucking wrong it's pathetic at this point. You either A) Have no idea how to play BO or B) Have never played BO.I'm sure there's something somewhere that can kill things a few seconds faster than DB BO, and that's enough for him to not consider it broken. :/

[Z-0]

Dual blades FI/BO.

Dual blades BO in general.




You really need to stop saying this. It's so fucking wrong it's pathetic at this point. You either A) Have no idea how to play BO or B) Have never played BO.
lol

5char

[the_importer_]

Broken in game balance terms usually refers to something that, despite technically following the rules of the game, allows you to do things far beyond the game's general balance. It's usually interchangeable with over-powered in these cases.

Really, this is what the big fuss is all about? And I though it was pathetic when gamers complained about the balancing in fighting games. It's an online RPG where it's humans Vs computer, the entire point is to make enemies go down faster, I say enjoy.

[Kikikiki]

Dual Blade BO is just a wannabe TE :wacko:

[n_n]

Dual blades FI/BO.

Dual blades BO in general.




You really need to stop saying this. It's so fucking wrong it's pathetic at this point. You either A) Have no idea how to play BO or B) Have never played BO.
Having played DB BO and witnessing BOs in EQs, I gotta say there is potential, but it's not right up there just yet.

Since BO's release, TD pugs have been fairly frustrating now. For now, I think it's pretty underpowered... just needs more PAs, imo.

Also, your attitude on this forum is very poor.

[Shiyo]

Having played DB BO and witnessing BOs in EQs, I gotta say there is potential, but it's not right up there just yet.

Since BO's release, TD pugs have been fairly frustrating now. For now, I think it's pretty underpowered... just needs more PAs, imo.

Also, your attitude on this forum is very poor.

ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD4gFtL4LSM

[Kondibon]

Really, this is what the big fuss is all about? And I though it was pathetic when gamers complained about the balancing in fighting games. It's an online RPG where it's humans Vs computer, the entire point is to make enemies go down faster, I say enjoy.I can come up with dozens of reasons why I don't agree with that, but I'll just point out that there's nothing wrong with certain stuff being stronger than other stuff, that's not what broken means. It's impossible to perfectly balance a game, but when it gets to the point when something is SO good that anyone who uses anything else is being shunned you have a problem.

[pkemr4]

Dual blades FI/BO.

Dual blades BO in general.




You really need to stop saying this. It's so fucking wrong it's pathetic at this point. You either A) Have no idea how to play BO or B) Have never played BO.

got bored of annoying people on 4chan with this crap?

[Daiyousei]

Dont' worry, 2ch will let the truth out.

[n_n]

ok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD4gFtL4LSM
Okay, one boss getting killed easily doesn't make the class "OP" - it doesn't work like that. Also, I'm pretty sure other classes can kill quartz faster than what is displayed in that video.

Please show us videos of BO being used in endgame content (TD series, TA quests etc), otherwise, just stop it.

[Shiyo]

At this point I think people are lying through their teeth to try to keep BO off the radar so that people think it's weak and it doesn't get nerfed.

[Kondibon]

At this point I think people are lying through their teeth to try to keep BO off the radar so that people think it's weak and it doesn't get nerfed.It's in a weird position. Sure Dual Blades are strong, but it has a lackluster skill tree and Boots don't have as much going for them.

The whole class needs some tweaks. Hell even half of the DB PAs are pretty meh.

[n_n]

At this point I think people are lying through their teeth to try to keep BO off the radar so that people think it's weak and it doesn't get nerfed.
???? uh, okay.

Please stop, you are terrible at trolling.

[Shiyo]

It's in a weird position. Sure Dual Blades are strong, but it has a lackluster skill tree and Boots don't have as much going for them.

The whole class needs some tweaks. Hell even half of the DB PAs are pretty meh.

Yes, it's just photon blades and dispersion strike. Mainly photon blades, they need a ~30% damage nerf with the active up and it shouldn't 100% fill the gear gauge or help fill it at all. Then buffs to their weaker PA's(justice crow and starling fall are both really bad).

Jet boots just need more PA's, the PA's they have right now are solid and strong.

Sadly the skill tree will never be fixed.

BO really, really feels like an ep1/2 class. It really shows.

Limit break FI is probably completely broken as well.

[Chdata]

Okay, one boss getting killed easily doesn't make the class "OP" - it doesn't work like that. Also, I'm pretty sure other classes can kill quartz faster than what is displayed in that video.

Please show us videos of BO being used in endgame content (TD series, TA quests etc), otherwise, just stop it.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24340876


At this point I think people are lying through their teeth to try to keep BO off the radar so that people think it's weak and it doesn't get nerfed.

Oh my god. This is the most intelligent post in PSO world forums. Obviously we are trying to hide how OP BO is to japanese game developers who cannot even read our language.

[Chdata]

Also in comparison to the BO video above with dual blades, here is the same LQ but with Ely.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24346296

[Chdata]

Also why they hell can I no longer edit or quote posts?

http://imgur.com/lxgcd4t

[Kondibon]

Yes, it's just photon blades and dispersion strike. Mainly photon blades, they need a ~30% damage nerf with the active up and it shouldn't 100% fill the gear gauge or help fill it at all. Then buffs to their weaker PA's(justice crow and starling fall are both really bad).

Jet boots just need more PA's, the PA's they have right now are solid and strong.I actually think the gear filling is fine since that's... kinda the whole point of PBF. I agree with the damage reduction at least for PBF kind of like how Rapid for bows decreases the damage for most levels even though it hits more.
I think Starling fall needs to deal damage durring that animation at the start, the rest of the PAs just need a bit more damage if anything, they're fine mechanically.

I think they both need more PAs, but I guess that' inevitable. Can't wait till we get one that casts megiverse. :/

[the_importer_]

I can come up with dozens of reasons why I don't agree with that, but I'll just point out that there's nothing wrong with certain stuff being stronger than other stuff, that's not what broken means. It's impossible to perfectly balance a game, but when it gets to the point when something is SO good that anyone who uses anything else is being shunned you have a problem.

Amuse me, just how good are talking about here?

[Melodys]

In accordance to the list, I'd definitely say Bo/te, Te/Bo and even Fi/Bo jet boots focused is the worst at the moment. Their only worthwhile PA to use is Moment Gale for damage and that's bad against any shield enemies and bosses. Gran Wave does too low damage and can even hit an unintended spot and Strike Geist? The first part has limited range and why bother using the stun for mobs when you can just kill them with Moment Gale anyway?

I'd say dual blade Bo crit focused with rainbow crafted weapons is around OK tier maybe a bit below Hunter and on par with Gunner. Can't say much for Hunter except I heard that their PAs are still a bit on the slow side except for Partisans. However, I can say that they're better and more consistent than Gus at mobbing with Dispersion Strike being better than Shift Period and Heel Stab. It has the mobility while doing damage against bosses even outside Photon blade Fever, reliable shift dodge and insane PP regen. Granted, a Gu can wb+chain to kill a boss faster but that can sometimes fail due to the nature of some bosses. Then again, this is kind of like Ep2 Gu/hu vs Gu/ra argument with the former being all-around consistent and the latter having WB and can combine with chain to kill faster than the former when it works.

[Kondibon]

Amuse me, just how good are talking about here?Shunka and Ilmegid are both good examples. They both had a clear niche and place where they were meant to be used (clearing sparsely grouped mobs). The problem was that they did so much damage they ended up being effectively usable in literally every situation in the game. While they weren't always the most efficient thing to do, the situations where something else was more efficient it was only marginally so, or only in situations where you knew what was coming. The result was that huge swaths of content (the other katana PAs, and Techs) became obsolete simply because of their existence in that state.

[Shiyo]

Amuse me, just how good are talking about here?

Shunka, illmegid, illbarta.

[the_importer_]

Shunka and Ilmegid are both good examples. They both had a clear niche and place where they were meant to be used (clearing sparsely grouped mobs). The problem was that they did so much damage they ended up being effectively usable in literally every situation in the game. While they weren't always the most efficient thing to do, the situations where something else was more efficient it was only marginally so, or only in situations where you knew what was coming. The result was that huge swaths of content (the other katana PAs, and Techs) became obsolete simply because of their existence in that state.

Sounds to me that some of you are simply pissed that some PAs and Techs are more effective than all of your hours of grinding, rare hunting and perfect tree balancing. Plus, didn't Ilmegid recently get downgraded in the last update?

[Shiyo]

In accordance to the list, I'd definitely say Bo/te, Te/Bo and even Fi/Bo jet boots focused is the worst at the moment. Their only worthwhile PA to use is Moment Gale for damage and that's bad against any shield enemies and bosses. Gran Wave does too low damage and can even hit an unintended spot and Strike Geist? The first part has limited range and why bother using the stun for mobs when you can just kill them with Moment Gale anyway?


Very wrong, strike geist is your highest single target damage PA. Gran wave does great damage, it covers a huge distance, and can be shift actioned into a 10 year iframe.

All three PA's do great damage.

Also, yes, if you sub something incredibly bad it'll be..incredibly bad. Bo/HU and TE/BR are proper class combinations, not the abominations you listed.

That's like me saying RA is bad because RA/FO is garbage. What the hell?


Sounds to me that some of you are simply pissed that some PAs and Techs are more effective than all of your hours of grinding, rare hunting and perfect tree balancing. Plus, didn't Ilmegid recently get downgraded in the last update?


Too stupid to even respond to, move along.

[Kondibon]

Sounds to me that some of you are simply pissed that some PAs and Techs are more effective than all of your hours of grinding, rare hunting and perfect tree balancing.Sweety, I use extended weapons without a crit build, my skill trees are all generalist, and I hate rares. I'm the last person who'd be bitter about that sort of thing.
Where are you even getting that from. It's not just that they're stronger; I don't care that some PA lets you kill shit 5 seconds faster than me. I DO care when I don't feel like a have a choice in what to use because general content starts getting balanced around the highest point like.


Plus, didn't Ilmegid recently get downgraded in the last update?
I WONDER WHY! >_>

Jokes aside, I was talking about pre-nerf Ilmegid and shunka. I was using them as examples specifically BECAUSE they got nerfed.

[Chdata]

based on the dual blade vid I posted in the last page, is that strong or weak in the current meta?

[Maenara]

Hey guise, how is FI/RA or RA/FI nowadays?

[Zyrusticae]

Sounds to me that some of you are simply pissed that some PAs and Techs are more effective than all of your hours of grinding, rare hunting and perfect tree balancing. Plus, didn't Ilmegid recently get downgraded in the last update?
This is an incredibly stupid post and you should feel bad for making it.

Good balance means more options. More options means more fun, period. There is literally no downside to having a better-balanced game. (You can invent one, but you're still making shit up at that point.)

Episode 3's balance changes are the single greatest thing about this patch, single-handedly reviving the game for players like me who did NOT want to spam the same shit over and over and over again because doing anything else was stupid. I can't even understand why someone would defend that shit, or how they would get any kind of enjoyment out of it. Really, it boggles the mind.

[Shiyo]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24340876

http://www.mmcafe.com/nico.html#http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24340876
Yes, BO is the new shunka/illmegid.

Spam 1 button and kill everything in sight.



Episode 3's balance changes are the single greatest thing about this patch, single-handedly reviving the game for players like me who did NOT want to spam the same shit over and over and over again because doing anything else was stupid. I can't even understand why someone would defend that shit, or how they would get any kind of enjoyment out of it. Really, it boggles the mind.


Sorry to ruin your happiness but BO is what you just described :(

[Chdata]

You are both stupid for getting your panties so riled up on the internet over a game.

Also Zyrus was talking about how most classes now are good and you have a lot more PA choice without needing to spam one PA to be effective.

[Kikikiki]

You are both stupid for getting your panties so riled up on the internet over a game.

Also Zyrus was talking about how most classes now are good and you have a lot more PA choice without needing to spam one PA to be effective.

Great post.

[Shiyo]

You are both stupid for getting your panties so riled up on the internet over a game.

Also Zyrus was talking about how most classes now are good and you have a lot more PA choice without needing to spam one PA to be effective.

I saw someone named "Slut" in your team the other day, Mr. Team Leader.

No one is getting their "panties riled up". I'm just correcting people who think BO isn't completely broken.

Honestly, it feels like every class is completely broken(except GU I think) at this point. Seems like the game is a complete and total joke now.

Afk until ultimate mode time.

[Hexxy]

Pre-nerf Shunka was the end-all of pa's. It did more damage than anything else in the game, it was pp effective, it had (still has) for some reason a giant hitbox making it aoe-capable, and covered huge distance.

There was zero reason to use anything else. Now you have the choice of 8/10 pa's to use, all very good. Except Fudou and Hien-tsubabi. Still no idea what to do with those.

[Chdata]

He also has Whore.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

This game was always a joke, silly

[Chdata]

I can bet z-0 will pop in to say BO is bad only because it doesn't have a lot of versatility for TAs which is like 5% of game content.

[Shiyo]

This game was always a joke, silly

SH was actually pretty fun pre-ep3.

Now SH is level50 post-fury stance being a % DMG modifier levels of bad.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

SH was actually pretty fun pre-ep3.
I personally disagree

[Shiyo]

I personally disagree

I had fun if I wasn't doing EQ's, because then I just sit there as everything got really spooky.

I also only played like 2 months before EP3 came out so my experience is rather limited.

I still have fun now, I just have to intentionally gimp myself and use as weak weapons as possible to have fun. Always easy to find ways to have fun in PSO2 with it's great combat/classes!

[Chdata]

I personally have an opinion about SH pre and post ep3.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Personally I prefer the air

[Chdata]

I play PSO2 with AIDA's special patch enabled.

[Kondibon]

Honestly, it feels like every class is completely broken(except GU I think) at this point. Seems like the game is a complete and total joke now.
It's called power creep, and it's why I'm so intent on having the strong stuff be nerfed rather than the weak stuff be buffed. But I assume that's your point. :P

[Chdata]

Maybe SEGA wants this game to be "you should be able to mass kill mobs" and people who spend time melting down health on small fry are equal to someone who has to actually try to squish an ant. No. You're an exterminator. You should be destroying the entire colony.

[Xaelouse]

Personally I feel as though a lot of people are sleeping on Hunter main.

I also feel most of the nico videos are silly and the stuff keeps getting tested on stupid shit like quartz or other year-old content (seriously, lvl65 bal rhodos?) I believe the new LQ also has less HP values than normal?

[infiniteeverlasting]

Let's just hope ultimate mode is pretty damn difficult.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

spoiler

it wont

[ShinMaruku]

Bigger spoiler game as it's designed would not really reward skillful play. You guys must want Ninja Gaiden or Baynetta or some shit. Well Sega does own Bayonetta....

[Kondibon]

Bigger spoiler game as it's designed would not really reward skillful play. You guys must want Ninja Gaiden or Baynetta or some shit. Well Sega does own Bayonetta....
I'm pretty sure people just want things to last long enough that you feel like you're playing an action game and not whack-a-mole.

[Shiyo]

I'm pretty sure people just want things to last long enough that you feel like you're playing an action game and not whack-a-mole.

Which is exactly what SH pre-ep3 felt like if you weren't playing illmegid/illbarta/shunka/hatou.

[UnLucky]

I liked SH right when it came out and you were at an appropriate level for the content and those shark dogs fucking raped everyone

But then the only class that still took too long to kill trash at the new level cap was Force

Well, Techer too, since it was just a worse Force

Everyone else was playing VH mode all over again

Also they nerfed shark dogs

[Rakurai]

I kind of hope we keep getting enemies like those doll darkers that attack almost instantly instead of having ridiculously long tells for their attacks.

Though that might be to compensate for the fact that they're completely non-aggressive until you hit them, even on SH.

[Chdata]

I kind of hope we keep getting enemies like those doll darkers that attack almost instantly instead of having ridiculously long tells for their attacks.

Though that might be to compensate for the fact that they're completely non-aggressive until you hit them, even on SH.

I want to fight a decol malluda with no stops

I also want those fat toy things to be full agressive, cause last I ran into one it had this really long lasting yell animation or something - it should be tanky and just constantly claw at you. Imagine a gel wulf that doesn't stop closing in on you.

[Chdata]

I'm pretty sure people just want things to last long enough that you feel like you're playing an action game and not whack-a-mole.

"Everyone" or "you"?

The way I see it, I only mostly play this game to mess around with the cool attack animations/physics and hit bigger numbers more and more often.

[branflakes325]

spoiler

it wont

I actually have high expectations for ultimate in terms of difficulty, and I don't think it's going to disappoint. Look at the current "standard" for ultimate in the PSO series, and also look at what Sega has been throwing at us lately. PSO Ultimate was obviously a huge difficulty jump, and judging by the sneak peak at PSO2 Ultimate it looks like they're drawing all inspiration from PSO.

Recently we got TD3, which I believe is the perfect difficulty for an EQ. It's hard enough to be somewhat challenging and require strategy, but not hard enough to make it completely impossible for sub-par MPAs that just want to finish an EQ run before the 30 minutes are up. Ultimate doesn't really need to cater to the casual players as much, because its accessibility is probably not limited to a random 30-minute opportunity that occurs 0-2 times per day.

We also have that new area. Those floating fat guys are essentially ep3's dog sharks.

[EspeonageTieler]

I actually have high expectations for ultimate in terms of difficulty, and I don't think it's going to disappoint. Look at the current "standard" for ultimate in the PSO series, and also look at what Sega has been throwing at us lately. PSO Ultimate was obviously a huge difficulty jump, and judging by the sneak peak at PSO2 Ultimate it looks like they're drawing all inspiration from PSO.

Recently we got TD3, which I believe is the perfect difficulty for an EQ. It's hard enough to be somewhat challenging and require strategy, but not hard enough to make it completely impossible for sub-par MPAs that just want to finish an EQ run before the 30 minutes are up. Ultimate doesn't really need to cater to the casual players as much, because its accessibility is probably not limited to a random 30-minute opportunity that occurs 0-2 times per day.

We also have that new area. Those floating fat guys are essentially ep3's dog sharks.
fat guys? you mean raijin and fujin right? love those dudes

[Alexandrious12]

All the classes are broken! Discussion over!

http://i.imgur.com/SpwsI.gif

[n_n]

I can bet z-0 will pop in to say BO is bad only because it doesn't have a lot of versatility for TAs which is like 5% of game content.
What's the other 95% of content?

Nobody plays anything other than EQs(mostly TD series), TAs and the occasional free field MPA... also, LQ if there is an event going on.

I feel nothing else matters.

[n_n]

Also, to you people labeling Bouncer as overpowered over that nico video (3:36)... let me show you that run is not very good compared to other class setups which are genuinely overpowered and need a nerf.

TeBr 1:49: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24347115
FoTe 2:03: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24374742

[UnLucky]

People totally do Arks Quests at least once!

[Walkure]

People totally do Arks Quests at least once!Hey, people still probably do Rare Ore Mining for crafting Rare Box techs!

Where does "Turbo Button E" fit into the class tier list?

[Z-0]

Shit tier because I keep forgetting to turn it off on my controller and keep searching for the weapon "e" in shops. ;w;

[Rupikachu]

What's the other 95% of content?

Nobody plays anything other than EQs(mostly TD series), TAs and the occasional free field MPA... also, LQ if there is an event going on.

I feel nothing else matters.

I rarely see people doing TA's now that they're weekly.

About hu/fi how is it godly?, i haven't resetted my skills yet since ep3 came out (was ol' chase advance fi) but my overall damage isn't even close to my br/hu with similar specced equipment <-- Edit: and i mean like 2-3 times weaker so i doubt recreating my skill tree will fix that. O.o

[BIG OLAF]

People totally do Arks Quests at least once!

This is a good time to drop in and say that if people aren't doing their 100k+ dailies, which ofttimes include ARKs Quests, then they're dumb, so.

[Chdata]

Also, to you people labeling Bouncer as overpowered over that nico video (3:36)... let me show you that run is not very good compared to other class setups which are genuinely overpowered and need a nerf.

TeBr 1:49: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24347115
FoTe 2:03: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24374742

Rather, everything in the game is OP right now except for random asynchronous combos like FoGu.

Also I don't take that bo vid seriously cause it's not 70/70 content.


What's the other 95% of content?

Nobody plays anything other than EQs(mostly TD series), TAs and the occasional free field MPA... also, LQ if there is an event going on.

I feel nothing else matters.

That was based on time spent in quests. Technically pre-EP3 it depends on how much you play pso2, where pre-EP3 was like 70% AQ, 25% EQ, 5% TA. For people who mostly afked in lobby it was 70% lobby, 25% EQ, 5% TA. Some people, it may have even been 99.9% TA and the other 0.01% is the time it takes you to go into the lobby and advertise to get a party to TA with.

Now because of daily orders and the nerf to TACOs it's probably like

30% random quests for collection orders, 30% AQ (depending on how popular those are now... I don't know, maybe it's 0% again), 39.9% EQ, 0.01% TA unless you're one of those TA clan people. Pre-EP3 I would've mentioned XQ as 0.01% because most only did sets of those like once or twice a month depending on what rare drop boosts were there. Now that TACO is weekly it also falls off the radar, even though it's there. I suppose you should split that 0.01% between TACO and XQCO.

Note: These numbers are all made up and are completely extrapolated approximations.

[Shiyo]

Game is a lot better now you're encouraged to do all forms of content(except AQS) and whenever I log in I always have a variety of things to do for money and experience.

It's great, I love episode 3.

On topic:

It's still dual blades BO.

[hoangsea]

Also, to you people labeling Bouncer as overpowered over that nico video (3:36)... let me show you that run is not very good compared to other class setups which are genuinely overpowered and need a nerf.

TeBr 1:49: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24347115
FoTe 2:03: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24374742

lol can't imagine that crappy wand te from ep2 is that broken at ep3 ...

[Laxedrane]

Not that I don't believe the posters here I am just confused.

How does adding 10% damage while shifta being up suddenly make TE god tier? Is there something else I missed about the buff to TE?

[FerrickX]

Not that I don't believe the posters here I am just confused.

How does adding 10% damage while shifta being up suddenly make TE god tier? Is there something else I missed about the buff to TE?

different strokes for different blokes, just like this tiering stuff, it's all based on the opinion of the user

[Chdata]

Not that I don't believe the posters here I am just confused.

How does adding 10% damage while shifta being up suddenly make TE god tier? Is there something else I missed about the buff to TE?

The made wand lovers able to be always active (meaning always wand explosions).

Other than that... I guess they buffed the explosions themselves? I don't really see what else is different about te. There's also the general increase in damage for techs/stances on top of that.

[Z-0]

Not that I don't believe the posters here I am just confused.

How does adding 10% damage while shifta being up suddenly make TE god tier? Is there something else I missed about the buff to TE?
With Episode 3, they buffed wand strikes and wand explosions in general.
In addition to this, Wand Lovers is now a permanent stance, and gives 40% striking damage. Wand Reactor is also easily accessible and converts 40% of your weapon T-Atk into S-Atk. TB is also now a passive skill, making that extremely useful. Shifta Strike, you've already commented on, another 10% damage. With EWH, that's another 20% damage, and enemy latents will give you 20% more damage (for Darkers, use the EWH wand from White Territory, as 1080 S-Atk + 8% is stronger than 919 S-Atk + 13%).

BR has a skill on its tree called "Attack Advance", which increases normal attack power by 50%. Since Wand Strikes are normal attacks, yeah... Combined with Average Stance (+25%) and Weak Stance (+45% on weak spots), TeBr can do a buttload of damage. With enough enemies in a Zondeel, tough enemies such as Goldrahdas can die in one or two shots easily if you're strong enough.

[hoangsea]

With Episode 3, they buffed wand strikes and wand explosions in general.
In addition to this, Wand Lovers is now a permanent stance, and gives 40% striking damage. Wand Reactor is also easily accessible and converts 40% of your weapon T-Atk into S-Atk. TB is also now a passive skill, making that extremely useful. Shifta Strike, you've already commented on, another 10% damage. With EWH, that's another 20% damage, and enemy latents will give you 20% more damage (for Darkers, use the EWH wand from White Territory, as 1080 S-Atk + 8% is stronger than 919 S-Atk + 13%).

BR has a skill on its tree called "Attack Advance", which increases normal attack power by 50%. Since Wand Strikes are normal attacks, yeah... Combined with Average Stance (+25%) and Weak Stance (+45% on weak spots), TeBr can do a buttload of damage. With enough enemies in a Zondeel, tough enemies such as Goldrahdas can die in one or two shots easily if you're strong enough.

as a Te/Br ppl should focus on s-atk right ?

[infiniteeverlasting]

if people are complaining the game is too easy, why not just jump into AQ's/XQ's/TA's solo with shit-tier 1 star weaps/units :D
now that is something i would like to see

[Dragon_Knight]

if people are complaining the game is too easy, why not just jump into AQ's/XQ's/TA's solo with shit-tier 1 star weaps/units :D
now that is something i would like to see

Its just not in people's nature to kneecap themselves for "challenge" besides it really doesn't matter WHAT sega does to up the difficulty, if it bleeds you can kill it. Once you've figured out the method of killing it it stops being "difficult." And therein lies the problem. Besides have you SEEN how ugly the tier one gear is? I'd rather do a run naked!

[pkemr4]

http://youtu.be/FuBvJvJX-OY

[Aine]

http://nicotter.net/watch/sm24371951
FiBo is in the running for highest single target DPS. If you use the DB action during fever and with max gear, you'll build up max gear again instantly allowing you to repeatedly throw photon blades. Moment Gale is also great in bursts, you can do something similar to a Nifta burst with it (only tested in MPAs though, not AQs).


Bonus: http://nicotter.net/watch/sm24363493
Double saber's kamaitachi builds up gear now, so you can go full tornado. I think it only works against Bal Rodos but the result is hilarious.

[IndigoNovember]

Bonus: http://nicotter.net/watch/sm24363493
Double saber's kamaitachi builds up gear now, so you can go full tornado. I think it only works against Bal Rodos but the result is hilarious.

Oh man, that was hilarious (≧▽≦) .

[Z-0]

Double Saber's tornado definitely "works" against other things. The 1:58 clear of the semifinal GP as FiHu has the player using stacked tornado to kill some things inside a Nifta.

Not really sure how effective it is against anything though, as you'd probably be better just using Deadly Archer / Tornado Dance / etc.

[Stickboy]

With Episode 3, they buffed wand strikes and wand explosions in general.
In addition to this, Wand Lovers is now a permanent stance, and gives 40% striking damage. Wand Reactor is also easily accessible and converts 40% of your weapon T-Atk into S-Atk. TB is also now a passive skill, making that extremely useful. Shifta Strike, you've already commented on, another 10% damage. With EWH, that's another 20% damage, and enemy latents will give you 20% more damage (for Darkers, use the EWH wand from White Territory, as 1080 S-Atk + 8% is stronger than 919 S-Atk + 13%).

BR has a skill on its tree called "Attack Advance", which increases normal attack power by 50%. Since Wand Strikes are normal attacks, yeah... Combined with Average Stance (+25%) and Weak Stance (+45% on weak spots), TeBr can do a buttload of damage. With enough enemies in a Zondeel, tough enemies such as Goldrahdas can die in one or two shots easily if you're strong enough.

sonuvabetch that is some bullshit tier buff

[branflakes325]

With Episode 3, they buffed wand strikes and wand explosions in general.
In addition to this, Wand Lovers is now a permanent stance, and gives 40% striking damage. Wand Reactor is also easily accessible and converts 40% of your weapon T-Atk into S-Atk. TB is also now a passive skill, making that extremely useful. Shifta Strike, you've already commented on, another 10% damage. With EWH, that's another 20% damage, and enemy latents will give you 20% more damage (for Darkers, use the EWH wand from White Territory, as 1080 S-Atk + 8% is stronger than 919 S-Atk + 13%).

BR has a skill on its tree called "Attack Advance", which increases normal attack power by 50%. Since Wand Strikes are normal attacks, yeah... Combined with Average Stance (+25%) and Weak Stance (+45% on weak spots), TeBr can do a buttload of damage. With enough enemies in a Zondeel, tough enemies such as Goldrahdas can die in one or two shots easily if you're strong enough.

I'd like to see this one-two-shotting Golrahda action you speak of. Even if you're doing 20k strikes and 4k explosions I can't see how these things would go down that quickly. Unless theyre unbuffed wave 1 mobs, in which case they don't even spawn in great numbers.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would love to see some footage anyway.

EDIT: arks gp doesn't count. those things definitely have less hp lol

[infiniteeverlasting]

Its just not in people's nature to kneecap themselves for "challenge" besides it really doesn't matter WHAT sega does to up the difficulty, if it bleeds you can kill it. Once you've figured out the method of killing it it stops being "difficult." And therein lies the problem. Besides have you SEEN how ugly the tier one gear is? I'd rather do a run naked!

hahahahaha :-P

The way i see it is the game is now more accessible to new players.
you no longer really need so much super equipment to get through game at "high speeds" as you used to, therefore hopefully stopping the TD complaining. However, now there is a new complaint: it's too easy, now everybody can do it! nerf nerf nerf!
smh

edit: but there are always going to be ones who run an unorthodox build for the funsies and bring down the "efficiency" for others. woohoo! more complaining will ensue :D

[n_n]

if people are complaining the game is too easy, why not just jump into AQ's/XQ's/TA's solo with shit-tier 1 star weaps/units :D
now that is something i would like to see
Nope.

[Mopop]

Sheesh guys. I just asked a simple question.

All I want to know is the most broken/OP class, so I can be said broken/OP class.

Looks like it's te/br? or what? Some links to some builds would be sweet too.

[Maenara]

I'd like to see this one-two-shotting Golrahda action you speak of. Even if you're doing 20k strikes and 4k explosions I can't see how these things would go down that quickly. Unless theyre unbuffed wave 1 mobs, in which case they don't even spawn in great numbers.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would love to see some footage anyway.

You realize the more enemies there are, the more damage those enemies take from wand explosions, right?

[branflakes325]

You realize the more enemies there are, the more damage those enemies take from wand explosions, right?

I know this. I don't know what led you to believe that I don't know this. Don't respond to my posts in a snarky fashion unless you're actually providing useful information.

Why did you think I even mentioned "spawn in great numbers"?

[Skyly]

http://nicotter.net/watch/sm24371951
FiBo is in the running for highest single target DPS. If you use the DB action during fever and with max gear, you'll build up max gear again instantly allowing you to repeatedly throw photon blades. Moment Gale is also great in bursts, you can do something similar to a Nifta burst with it (only tested in MPAs though, not AQs).


Bonus: http://nicotter.net/watch/sm24363493
Double saber's kamaitachi builds up gear now, so you can go full tornado. I think it only works against Bal Rodos but the result is hilarious.

WOW!!

[Cyron Tanryoku]

there is a new complaint: it's too easy
That's not a new complaint

[UnLucky]

Sheesh guys. I just asked a simple question.

ya so easy "whats best class IYO??"

[Z-0]

Well, there's always optimums, but in this game it honestly depends what you're doing.

Hard to answer, but if you go Ra, Fo or TeBr, you'll be set for life. It's a bit hard to carry in TD as Ra though, but they're pretty necessary for smooth runs regardless. BrHu is also great for doing everything, but their overall "brokenness" is slipping away with these balance adjustments.

Ranger with Subs (HU and BR) (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08IAbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk 0jdodBIbl20fJksNI2000000doIn0000008doboHoIdIoibcFi kJfk00008do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo4NcAfHnrA mxIk00008doIb000000f). You may want to remove some points from R-Atk Up and get Killing Bonus if you prefer that, but Grenade Bomb can fill in for PP Regeneration for most things.
Fo with subs (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08bIbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk 0jdodBIb00000000jdoIniNjGKGKfHnINI200008doib000000 6do000000lobsiN2SGBIk000000loInfcDfGAGAInIkIk00000 9bIo4NjHnfmxIkqnAQ0000jdoIb000000f). Lots of free points on most trees, so you can pick your elements. Generally you'll want a tree for each element and switch between them for each area. FoTe is the PP Battery with extended Zondeel range, along with strongest Wind/Light/Dark damage,, while FoFi is the strongest user of Fire/Ice/Lightning when attacking non-weak (so, Nabarta) and FoBr is the strongest Fire/Ice/Lightning when attacking weak with Weak Stance.
TeBr (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0 jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006do000000lo00 000007oInfGDIbqnI2InsNIk000009bIo4NGAI2jmxIkGAIk00 00jdoIb000000f). Not much to say. There's a lot of free points on the TE tree that you can do whatever with, the necessities are filled.
BrHu if you want (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0 jdodBIbHnIkI2Ibdn8JksNI2000000doIn0000008doib00000 06do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo4NGAIn6sNHSHx000 0jdoIb000000f).

[Cortte]

Bouncer is not broken at all. In fact, it's probably the least broken class because it's not that great in comparison to the rest. With its current PAs, it's definitely one of the most poor, but this could very well change in the future with new PAs (much like Braver did). Bouncer is broken for killing bosses, but only if Photon Blade Fever is up, which is less than half the time.

The most broken are TeBr, RaHu, RaBr, FoTe, FoFi and FoBr, I would say.

I made a really long post in the TA thread on how classes stand in general:

[spoiler-box][/spoiler-box]

I dunno man. My BO/BR is on par in damage with my maxed out BR/RA. BR/RA can deal about 500k damage with properly aimed Last Nemesis and Banish Arrow follow up. My BO/BR on the other hand is capable of dealing around 100k per fully charged Strike Geist, and I can do that 6 times before running out of PP.

[Mopop]

Well, there's always optimums, but in this game it honestly depends what you're doing.

Hard to answer, but if you go Ra, Fo or TeBr, you'll be set for life. It's a bit hard to carry in TD as Ra though, but they're pretty necessary for smooth runs regardless. BrHu is also great for doing everything, but their overall "brokenness" is slipping away with these balance adjustments.

Ranger with Subs (HU and BR) (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08IAbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk 0jdodBIbl20fJksNI2000000doIn0000008doboHoIdIoibcFi kJfk00008do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo4NcAfHnrA mxIk00008doIb000000f). You may want to remove some points from R-Atk Up and get Killing Bonus if you prefer that, but Grenade Bomb can fill in for PP Regeneration for most things.
Fo with subs (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08bIbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk 0jdodBIb00000000jdoIniNjGKGKfHnINI200008doib000000 6do000000lobsiN2SGBIk000000loInfcDfGAGAInIkIk00000 9bIo4NjHnfmxIkqnAQ0000jdoIb000000f). Lots of free points on most trees, so you can pick your elements. Generally you'll want a tree for each element and switch between them for each area. FoTe is the PP Battery with extended Zondeel range, along with strongest Wind/Light/Dark damage,, while FoFi is the strongest user of Fire/Ice/Lightning when attacking non-weak (so, Nabarta) and FoBr is the strongest Fire/Ice/Lightning when attacking weak with Weak Stance.
TeBr (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0 jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006do000000lo00 000007oInfGDIbqnI2InsNIk000009bIo4NGAI2jmxIkGAIk00 00jdoIb000000f). Not much to say. There's a lot of free points on the TE tree that you can do whatever with, the necessities are filled.
BrHu if you want (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0 jdodBIbHnIkI2Ibdn8JksNI2000000doIn0000008doib00000 06do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo4NGAIn6sNHSHx000 0jdoIb000000f).


Thinking about going for Techer. How exactly does techer work? I remember trying it a long time ago and I thought it sucked, but everyone says it's good now so I might give it a whirl.

Do I need a new mag? since mine right now is mainly S-ATK

[Dephinix]

I dunno man. My BO/BR is on par in damage with my maxed out BR/RA. BR/RA can deal about 500k damage with properly aimed Last Nemesis and Banish Arrow follow up. My BO/BR on the other hand is capable of dealing around 100k per fully charged Strike Geist, and I can do that 6 times before running out of PP.

I'm hitting 700k with Ra/Br.
Am curious about the strike geist though, what stances are you using?

[ReverseSeraf]

I dunno man. My BO/BR is on par in damage with my maxed out BR/RA. BR/RA can deal about 500k damage with properly aimed Last Nemesis and Banish Arrow follow up. My BO/BR on the other hand is capable of dealing around 100k per fully charged Strike Geist, and I can do that 6 times before running out of PP.

You also have the consider the amount of time spent dealing the same amount of damage, though.

Also the PP cost. FN + BA is approximately 60-65 PP. Strike Geist is... 20-30? Times 6 is 120-180.

So in short, you're doing the same amount of damage with Jet Boots... just you're spending more time and more PP to achieve it. The comparison is faulty.

[Shiyo]

I dunno man. My BO/BR is on par in damage with my maxed out BR/RA. BR/RA can deal about 500k damage with properly aimed Last Nemesis and Banish Arrow follow up. My BO/BR on the other hand is capable of dealing around 100k per fully charged Strike Geist, and I can do that 6 times before running out of PP.

/HU would make your strike geist do like 30% more damage.

BO/BR is bad.

[ReverseSeraf]

/HU would make your strike geist do like 30% more damage.

BO/BR is bad.

You sure?

Hu subclass gives 1.61 multiplier (I think). Br subclass (on a weakspot) gives 1.63. I'm assuming he went with Weak Stance, since the tech aspect of Jet Boots would also benefit significantly from it.

[Kondibon]

You sure?

Hu subclass gives 1.61 multiplier (I think). Br subclass (on a weakspot) gives 1.63. I'm assuming he went with Weak Stance, since the tech aspect of Jet Boots would also benefit significantly from it.Weak stance doesn't trigger from weapon elements, so unless you're hitting a weak spot you'd have to be pure teching to get the full damage bonus, which isn't as effective on a bouncer.

[Arksenth]

lol can't imagine that crappy wand te from ep2 is that broken at ep3 ...

Melee TE has ALWAYS been broken by nature of having the only exponential multiplier in the entire game, but it just wasn't played all that often except by a few dedicated players due to how difficult it was to handle. Episode 3 fixed a number of the finicky gameplay issues, allowing Melee TEs to focus on maximizing potential rather than keeping up all of its actives and giving melee TE some more damage.

I think if you weren't into Melee TE before EP3, you're still not going to be into it now. The high-risk, zero-range combat is still the centerpoint of the class - still no blocking like the other "melee" classes. All SEGA has done is made the gameplay a lot smoother, and upped the reward slightly for taking on the risk associated with melee TE by buffing wand damage significantly as well as zero-range techs (Nazan, Ragrants).

Anyway, there's a lot of focus on TE/BR, but don't forget that TE/FI and TE/HU are still mainstays. TE/FI specializes more in maximizing tech and explosion damage - especially if you have a Ragrants or Nazan-centered build, whereas TE/HU sacrifices some damage for much-needed survivability. TE/ BR isn't the absolute optimal amongst the options, it just caters to certain playstyles.

[ReverseSeraf]

Weak stance doesn't trigger from weapon elements, so unless you're hitting a weak spot you'd have to be pure teching to get the full damage bonus, which isn't as effective on a bouncer.

That's kinda.. what I was saying :L

Of course it's not as effective on Bouncer as compared to Force and/or Techer, but if he's going Bo/Br, might as well

[Kondibon]

That's kinda.. what I was saying :L

Of course it's not as effective on Bouncer as compared to Force and/or Techer, but if he's going Bo/Br, might as wellHonestly, if you're doing a hybrid build then yeah FI or BR would be better since they boost tech damage as well. For a pure dual blade or s-atk boot though BO (which I assume Shiyo was referring to) the extra damage isn't worth the extra stance dancing.

[ReverseSeraf]

Honestly, if you're doing a hybrid build then yeah FI or BR would be better since they boost tech damage as well. For a pure dual blade or s-atk boot though BO (which I assume Shiyo was referring to) the extra damage isn't worth the extra stance dancing.

Stance dancing is so quick that I don't even consider it an obstacle anymore.

If it just takes 1 second for me to go from 1.39 multiplier from Average Stance to 1.63 from Weak Stance, I would gladly take it. Br subclass for Bo doesn't offer much anyway other than those stances and maybe 2 other skills

[Walkure]

Melee TE has ALWAYS been broken by nature of having the only exponential multiplier in the entire game
[Total Damage to Group] = [Wand Explosion]*x^2 + [Wand Smack]*x
Where x = # of mobs.
Looks quadratic to me.

Granted, it's still unique and extremely useful for blowing up waves of mobs, but it's not exponential.

[ReverseSeraf]

[Total Damage to Group] = [Wand Explosion]*x^2 + [Wand Smack]*x
Where x = # of mobs.
Looks quadratic to me.

Granted, it's still unique and extremely useful for blowing up waves of mobs, but it's not exponential.

Of course this would be coming from the guy who has math as a status :wacko:

[Kondibon]

Stance dancing is so quick that I don't even consider it an obstacle anymore.

If it just takes 1 second for me to go from 1.39 multiplier from Average Stance to 1.63 from Weak Stance, I would gladly take it. Br subclass for Bo doesn't offer much anyway other than those stances and maybe 2 other skillsOoooor you can sub hunter and have 1.60x damage all the time. Like I said, this would only matter if you're going pure strike damage. If you intend to use techs for damage at all then Fighter or Braver would be better even with the stance dancing.

I'm not saying switching stances is a major inconvenience or anything, just that, if you're not using techs in the first place then FI and BR stances aren't as useful as Fury stance. Which honestly I'm fine with since it gives them all a use.

[ReverseSeraf]

Ooooor you can sub hunter and have 1.60x damage all the time. Like I said, this would only matter if you're going pure strike damage. If you intend to use techs for damage at all then Fighter or Braver would be better even with the stance dancing.

I'm not saying switching stances is a major inconvenience or anything, just that, if you're not using techs in the first place then FI and BR stances aren't as useful as Fury stance. Which honestly I'm fine with since it gives them all a use.

I musta missed that, then. I'm pretty much 100% in accordance with what you said.

[Kondibon]

I musta missed that, then. I'm pretty much 100% in accordance with what you said.Yes, I was agreeing with you. just pointing out that Shiyo was probably talking about going pure Dual Blades. D:

[ReverseSeraf]

Yes, I was agreeing with you. just pointing out that Shiyo was probably talking about going pure Dual Blades. D:

But the other guy was talking about Jet Boots ;_;

Not to mention Shiyo mentioned Strike Geist as well lol

[Shiyo]

You sure?

Hu subclass gives 1.61 multiplier (I think). Br subclass (on a weakspot) gives 1.63. I'm assuming he went with Weak Stance, since the tech aspect of Jet Boots would also benefit significantly from it.

Yes but you're not hitting weak points 100% of the time, while fury stance and ja bonus are giving you the damage bonus 100% of the time(assuming you don't mess up your JA).

[ReverseSeraf]

Yes but you're not hitting weak points 100% of the time, while fury stance and ja bonus are giving you the damage bonus 100% of the time(assuming you don't mess up your JA).

I got that point :wacko:. I just didn't agree with you saying that Bo/Br was bad.

[Arksenth]

Of course this would be coming from the guy who has math as a status :wacko:

:wacko:

I'm pretty much going to ignore that level of pedantry.

[ReverseSeraf]

:wacko:

I'm pretty much going to ignore that level of pedantry.

Well, aren't you special :wacko:

[Arksenth]

Well, aren't you special :wacko:

I know I am!!!

-sparkles prettily-

The prettiest and most popular magical student council president cheerleader moe-moe nurse maid tsundere twintails idol of all of PSO-World High!!!

[Rien]

I'd like to see this one-two-shotting Golrahda action you speak of. Even if you're doing 20k strikes and 4k explosions I can't see how these things would go down that quickly. Unless theyre unbuffed wave 1 mobs, in which case they don't even spawn in great numbers.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would love to see some footage anyway.

EDIT: arks gp doesn't count. those things definitely have less hp lol

iirc don't wand explosions hit upwards 8k?

[branflakes325]

It depends on the build and/or whether you're hitting a weak point. Otherwise it's hard to get absurdly high numbers in both striking damage and wand explosion damage. Some specialization and sacrifice is necessary.

[Cortte]

I'm hitting 700k with Ra/Br.
Am curious about the strike geist though, what stances are you using?

I use elemental stance and weak stance. I'm also using the 8 start boots with lvl 3 potential that raises weak stance by 11%

I also understand I may be using more PP at a slower rate to do that damage, but in all honesty, it is just a super fun option, and I am purely happy with my damage for the fun.

[Shiyo]

I use elemental stance and weak stance. I'm also using the 8 start boots with lvl 3 potential that raises weak stance by 11%

I also understand I may be using more PP at a slower rate to do that damage, but in all honesty, it is just a super fun option, and I am purely happy with my damage for the fun.
I don't think you understand how weak stance from BR works.

Just because you're hitting enemies weak to your weapons element, it doesn't mean that BR's weak stance is working. It only works like that for actual techs. You need to be hitting actual WEAK POINTS for it to work on PA's and basic attacks.

[Kondibon]

EDIT: Wrong thread

[NexusAZ]

Stance dancing is so quick that I don't even consider it an obstacle anymore.

If it just takes 1 second for me to go from 1.39 multiplier from Average Stance to 1.63 from Weak Stance, I would gladly take it. Br subclass for Bo doesn't offer much anyway other than those stances and maybe 2 other skills

[Wise Stance Intensifies]

[UnLucky]

[Total Damage to Group] = [Wand Explosion]*x^2 + [Wand Smack]*x
Where x = # of mobs.
Looks quadratic to me.

Granted, it's still unique and extremely useful for blowing up waves of mobs, but it's not exponential.
AFAIK, Wand Gear explosions are the only attack in the game with an exponent in the formula, so in that sense the damage is exponential, despite it being quadratic growth.

Ooooor you can sub hunter and have 1.60x damage all the time. Like I said, this would only matter if you're going pure strike damage. If you intend to use techs for damage at all then Fighter or Braver would be better even with the stance dancing.
Fury+JA = 176%
WS+Charge = 163%

So you get less for doing more.

[Zipzo]

Failing to understand how Te/Br is "God tier" with no mention of Te/Hu...and Te/Hu mobbing has pretty much always been pretty good so are people just figuring out the class now thanks to exposure or main streaming or what's up with that?

[UnLucky]

Cause Te/Br has stronger normals and techs. Te/Hu and Te/Fi are still comparable for different things.

But wands are better now in general with the new balance update, plus all the cooldowns are permanent now so you don't suddenly turn to unplayable garbage half the time anymore.

[Saelix]

When I first started playing I was a braver and chose to sub tech cause my friends needed a healer and thought teching was boring,If someone could show me a skill tree of this "Broken" combo i'd love to see it as it would make me think extremely gimping myself wasn't all for nothing.

[LonelyGaruga]

Failing to understand how Te/Br is "God tier" with no mention of Te/Hu...and Te/Hu mobbing has pretty much always been pretty good so are people just figuring out the class now thanks to exposure or main streaming or what's up with that?

By itself, Attack Advance is 50%. That and Average Stance + Up 1 = 206% damage. Additionally, Techer got several buffs in the last update, like Wand Gear explosions being affected by JA, Shifta Strike, and a Wand Lovers/Territory Burst that is always on. Techer is considerably better than it used to be.

[Maenara]

People are having a really hard time believing Techer can be good.

[gigawuts]

I still want PAs for wands.

Guilty Break and Serpent Air for wands. Please sega. Also Heavenly Fall.

[HeyItsTHK]

Techer/Braver is most certainly one of the top 3 combinations right now.


When I first started playing I was a braver and chose to sub tech cause my friends needed a healer and thought teching was boring,If someone could show me a skill tree of this "Broken" combo i'd love to see it as it would make me think extremely gimping myself wasn't all for nothing.

Te/Br is what you want, not Br/Te

[Mopop]

So te/br

S-atk mag?

How does the play style work? Would like to know more before committing to it.

[Chdata]

So te/br

S-atk mag?

How does the play style work? Would like to know more before committing to it.

wand lovers ON
zondeel -> hit with wand

[Xaelouse]

People are having a really hard time believing Techer can be good.

It's good now, but it's really evident everyone is hyping it up.
When something is fixed, everyone thinks it's the best thing ever. Look at partizan right now. There are still flaws in its gameplay, believe it or not, but it can finally do its job much much better. Yet now everyone deduced it as the only hunter weapon worth using.

[Saelix]

Oh woops should have mentioned i wanted the Te/br build I meant i was glad all that time leveling techer has a use

[The Walrus]

By itself, Attack Advance is 50%. That and Average Stance + Up 1 = 206% damage. Additionally, Techer got several buffs in the last update, like Wand Gear explosions being affected by JA, Shifta Strike, and a Wand Lovers/Territory Burst that is always on. Techer is considerably better than it used to be.

Really confused as to how you're getting that 206% from attack advance and avg.stance + the up

[HeyItsTHK]

So te/br

S-atk mag?

How does the play style work? Would like to know more before committing to it.

Just came out of a TD2 using it. using my s-atk mag and units. Zondeel em and whack em (can fit a zanverse in there to steal points assist the mpa if you so desire. Shifta -> Deband -> Resta (to heal the 25% hp gain) prior to combat/start of the next wave.

[ReverseSeraf]

[Wise Stance Intensifies]

Hey now, that's a completely different topic :v


Fury+JA = 176%
WS+Charge = 163%

So you get less for doing more.

Oh, totally switched up 1.2 with 1.1 for Fury Stance. Yeah, you're correct. Br would still be better if you plan on casting though.

[Kayarine]

On the topic of Te:

Average Stance (115%) + Average Up 1 (110%) + Attack Advance (150%) = 189%
Isn't that better than Fury for wand?

Moreover, Braver sub also gives access to Weak Stance (166%) and bow (Banish Arrow, more than double damage over 3 seconds,) which makes Ilbarta (or maybe Namegid with dark tree) useful for hitting boss weak points that wand can't reach. And even if you just want to hit bosses with a wand, if you hit the weak point with WS on, that's 222% (WS+WSU1+AA.)

While Hunter sub also has a BA equivalent in Vol Graptor, its multipliers don't benefit techs much.

At least that's my conclusion on the theory side. I'm currently leveling Te on my melee character to try it out.

[The Walrus]

Average stance base skill is 115% now

[LonelyGaruga]

Really confused as to how you're getting that 206% from attack advance and avg.stance + the up

I calculated Average Stance as 125% instead of 115% by mistake.

Still a higher multiplier than Te/Hu though.

[gogetaxar]

You know alot of this things i see about go tier and ok tier and shit tier really seem like alot of bullshit. You realize that a class plays differently than another mainly due to its skill tree not to mention the fact you have to know how to play the class. Yeah braver isnt as strong as it was before but that is not really an issue if anything it can make you better because if you can play with these so called shit tier classes and still destroy then that makes you better than the people who play with these so called high tier classes who want all their shit handed to them.

[Maenara]

So I calculated what kind of multipliers a GU/HU would have if they had a TE/RA tag along with them and use Shifta, Zanverse, and Weakbullet.

Chain Trigger Multiplier = CT (Variable)
Chain Finish = 1.35x
Perfect Keeper = 1.2x
High Time = 1.2x
Fury Stance = 1.2x
Fury Stance Up 1/2 = 1.05x
Fury Combo Bonus = 1.1x
JA Bonus 1/2 = 1.1x
Enemy Slayer Latent = 1.2x
Charged JA Vol Graptor = 1.56x

Weak Bullet = 2.55x
Sharpshooter = 1.2x
Shifta Strike = 1.1x
Wind Mastery 1/2 = 1.2x
Enemy Slayer Latent = 1.2x
Zanverse = 1 + (0.2 * Shifta Strike * Sharpshooter * Weak Bullet * Enemy Slayer Latent * Wind mastery 1 * Wind Mastery 2) = 2.1632896x



Vol Graptor damage = (Recorded damage) * 1.2 * 1.35 * 1.56 * 2.55 * CT
Recorded damage = Initial damage * 1.05^2 * 1.1^4 * 1.2^4 * 1.35 * 2.55 * CT
Final damage = (Recorded damage + Vol Graptor damage) * 2.1632896

At 20-chain(CT = 3x): Final damage = Initial damage x1520.5

At 100-chain(CT = 5x): Final damage = Initial damage x4140.5

Somebody tell me I did this wrong, please. This is mildly terrifying.

[LonelyGaruga]

It's also mildly impossible.

[Maenara]

Impossible how?
I did notice I screwed up on the Sharpshooter and Shifta Strike thing, Sharpshooter doesn't work here, so that drops the Zanverse damage down slightly.

[LonelyGaruga]

Impossible in that you will never see this happen outside of simulated situations, so for all intents and purposes, it has no impact on proper gameplay.

[Maenara]

Getting a 20 chain, then Vol Graptoring and performing pretty much any PA is possible.
Getting someone to following around as TE/RA and perform the buffs correctly is also possible.

It just requires cooperation, and people building a tree for pairing up instead of soloing.
The fixed multiplier for a 100-chain is 3769.442591151302993055744x.

That turns a simple 5.3k into 20 million damage, enough to kill Dark Falz Loser in 3 hits.

[Kondibon]

I don't think that counts for a single class/subclass combo regardless of whether or not it's possible Maenara... (I play Te/RA all the time specifically because of how insane the bonuses to other people are though).

[Maenara]

That's okay. I just would love if someone would tell me if I did it correctly. If I did, then expect a video of some sort in a couple weeks(After skill tree resets come out).

[LonelyGaruga]

Getting a 20 chain, then Vol Graptoring and performing pretty much any PA is possible.
Getting someone to following around as TE/RA and perform the buffs correctly is also possible.

It just requires cooperation, and people building a tree for pairing up instead of soloing.
The fixed multiplier for a 100-chain is 3769.442591151302993055744x.

That turns a simple 5.3k into 20 million damage, enough to kill Dark Falz Loser in 3 hits.

Good luck getting Loser to sit still long enough for it to happen.

Really, if you can pull this off on anything that you could realistically pull it off on, a 12 player MPA could have slaughtered it far more quickly than your pair could have.

[Kondibon]

Good luck getting Loser to sit still long enough for it to happen.

Really, if you can pull this off on anything that you could realistically pull it off on, a 12 player MPA could have slaughtered it far more quickly than your pair could have.I don't think Maenara is talking about practicality here all things considered.

[Maenara]

Good luck getting Loser to sit still long enough for it to happen.

Really, if you can pull this off on anything that you could realistically pull it off on, a 12 player MPA could have slaughtered it far more quickly than your pair could have.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwx31-i4YfU

I patiently await your response.

[LonelyGaruga]

17 minutes.

...how, exactly, does that contradict anything I've said?

[Maenara]

You didn't even watch the video. The first 2 minutes contradict everything you've said.

[Kondibon]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rwx31-i4YfU

I patiently await your response.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uvkbYR6UGo

http://i.imgur.com/3xvmeMR.gif

[Maenara]

>good luck getting a 100-chain on DFL
>video shows a 100-chain on DFL

Let's just ignore that fact that that shows a completely different build and pretend that, if the video DID have the build I was discussing, it would have gone longer than 2 minutes.

[GHNeko]

This place is still as peppy and cheerful as I remember.

[Kondibon]

>good luck getting a 100-chain on DFL
>video shows a 100-chain on DFL

Let's just ignore that fact that that shows a completely different build and pretend that, if the video DID have the build I was discussing, it would not have gone longer than 2 minutes.Woah, hey, I'm agreeing with you. I'm just pointing out something different (That gimmick CT builds can speed kill luther faster than most MPAs).

[LonelyGaruga]

You didn't even watch the video. The first 2 minutes contradict everything you've said.

No, I am watching it. I've seen nothing that contradicts that this strategy is completely worthless compared to a full MPA. Not to mention that the Te/Ra would be almost useless. First, it's literally impossible for the Te/Ra to get into Zanverse range. It's insanely easy to WB Loser when you can't get hit by him, when he's attacking you? Not so much. Especially in phase 2. Good luck WBing that head. And they have to be able to WB at a certain point, or the CT is useless.

And then there's the whole matter of getting Vol Graptor to work out. Vol Graptor doesn't get weak spot for hitting Loser's head, unlike shooting attacks, so that's halved damage compared to those right there. Enemy Slayer isn't a 1.2x bonus against darkers, so you're stuck with Haze Evol, which you'd have to craft for Gunner equip, so you have damage variance.

And then you have to do the whole thing under 2:30 or whatever the 12 player record is against Loser.

Good luck.

EDIT: Btw Zanverse doesn't get Weak Bullet applied to it.

[Kondibon]

No, I am watching it. I've seen nothing that contradicts that this strategy is completely worthless compared to a full MPA. Based on what I've heard about MPAs in Luther and what I've seen done with CT I'm inclined to disagree unless you're abusing your hyperbole privilege.

[ShinMaruku]

This place is still as peppy and cheerful as I remember.

You take here seriously?

[Maenara]

Zanverse has a spherical AoE. The TE/RA just needs all-class jet boots and double jump and they're good to go. I don't need weakpoint damage on Vol Graptor, I never once factored weak point damage into my formula. I used enemy slayer in the formula because that's the best available multiplier, but realistically, I'd be using a Bio Partizan, which would be 1.08x instead. Slightly less, yes, but still good.
In any case, I estimate between 30 and 60 seconds to kill Loser, for best case scenario. Of course, that would require lots of practice to get timing correct, but doable nonetheless.

Also, finally you provide useful information. Took you long enough.

[GHNeko]

You take here seriously?


gods no.

but i would like to discuss pso2 with people without being called a tryhard or a b20 scrub.

buutttt


lol

[LonelyGaruga]

Zanverse has a spherical AoE. The TE/RA just needs all-class jet boots and double jump and they're good to go. I don't need weakpoint damage on Vol Graptor, I never once factored weak point damage into my formula. I used enemy slayer in the formula because that's the best available multiplier, but realistically, I'd be using a Bio Partizan, which would be 1.08x instead. Slightly less, yes, but still good.
In any case, I estimate between 30 and 60 seconds to kill Loser, for best case scenario. Of course, that would require lots of practice to get timing correct, but doable nonetheless.

Also, finally you provide useful information. Took you long enough.

Are you sure a person can get close enough to Loser's head with just Jet Boots to be able to get into Zanverse range? Because that person was near the ceiling, Loser's head is so high. I'm pretty sure Zanverse doesn't reach high enough for that.

Weak point damage is pointing out that that person actually was dealing more damage with the setup than you could with one player, and still took 17 minutes to beat Loser. They had WHA, ZRA, and doubled damage on top of that. Maybe Standing Snipe too, can't really tell. But either way, your setup would actually be weaker. The second player applying Shifta Strike and Zanverse is not going to remove 16 minutes.

I don't like providing useful information to bad ideas. It wasn't my intent to be useful.

[Selphea]

With a TeRa you probably don't need to climb. Just break his arm, get the DPS person to pop Massive Hunter and Megiverse the floor they're standing on when hitting the clock.

[Kondibon]

I don't like providing useful information

http://i.imgur.com/pR003Qe.gif

[Maenara]

You're forgetting the part where Vol Graptor squares the multipliers of weakbullet, chain trigger, chain finish, and potential, and then multiplies that by 1.56.

[LonelyGaruga]

With a TeRa you probably don't need to climb. Just break his arm, get the DPS person to pop Massive Hunter and Megiverse the floor they're standing on when hitting the clock.

1) Breaking the arm with just two players. Increases time consumption.
2) Support person has to avoid everything now while supporting.
3) Clock is a 1.5x weakness.
4) Loser wasn't teleporting because the player was on his head in the video. He'll teleport if you're down there.


http://i.imgur.com/pR003Qe.gif

TO BAD IDEAS

THAT PART IS VERY IMPORTANT


You're forgetting the part where Vol Graptor squares the multipliers of weakbullet, chain trigger, chain finish, and potential, and then multiplies that by 1.56.

Vol Graptor does not square. Did you really think it did? God I really did not check your math, I actually thought you knew what you were doing. I only noticed you applied WB to Zanverse because I glanced at it.

I am facepalming so hard right now. You actually made Vol Graptor square the damage?

Seriously though, 4) to my reply to Selphia is the biggest reason this will never work. Loser will teleport while attacking the support player. Teleport = no chain. Simple as that.

[Maenara]

Chain trigger multiplier of 5
PA does 5x damage from Chain Trigger
Vol Graptor records 5x damage from PA, then explodes for 5x damage from Chain Trigger
Vol Graptor does 25x the damage that the PA would have done without Chain Trigger.

Here's a video showing I'm not wrong on this:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24854123/

[LonelyGaruga]

That isn't squaring the damage. That's applying CT and the potential.

Vol Graptor does not apply Weak Bullet, and it doesn't apply any weak points (which is only relevant if you target the clock like Selphia suggested). I can't find any information on whether CF works on Vol Graptor damage or not, but I would assume it does based on the video. Actually, I can't find any information about the potential either, but I'm assuming that too. I could very well be wrong about that as well, making CT possibly the only modifier to Vol Graptor actually in play (besides the 1.56 bonus).

Since Vol Graptor doesn't work on WB or weak points, or a lot of things, it isn't squaring the damage you do.

I'd recommend redoing your math and see how much damage has been lost so far, by the way.

EDIT: Where the hell did you get 5x damage from CT from that video? CT gives 3x damage at the point that player got it to.

[Maenara]

Oh, you're right. The Vol Graptor's bonus from CT caps out at 3x. My bad. /s

Recalculated damage multiplier is 1084.2631681056848741376x.

Now you need to deal 20k damage to oneshot Dark Falz Loser. So much more challenging.

[LonelyGaruga]

The damage is fine. The issue is actually doing it with two people. One person has a much easier time setting it up because Loser will not teleport and his attacks pose virtually no threat, so you can set up freely. Two people create a far more complicated situation in which Loser will teleport, he will be interfering with the Te/RA's ability to support, he will be messing up your chain with his teleports and moving around, and he'll make it difficult to actually sit on his head and pull off Vol Graptor + Slide End or whatever you'll be using once you have a maxed chain.

Seriously, just try it next time you can or something and see how different the fight actually plays out. It's not about damage. It's about being able to pull it off in the first place.

[Aine]

Luther won't move at all while he's regenerating his arm, so all you have to do is break the clock and then break his arm, and you'll have a window of opportunity to set up CT and dump everything onto his core.

Aiming for the head isn't very practical, but dumping everything on the core is easy (we use Banish Arrow with a BrGu instead of Vol Graptor). That won't be enough to finish off Luther alone, but with a full MPA dealing damage getting 40~50 second runs killing Luther before he teleports the first time is very realistic.

[LonelyGaruga]

The whole thing was about duoing though. A 12 player MPA would work wonders with the same tactic since it becomes much more feasible to pull everything off.

Isn't the clock opened while Loser is regenerating his arm, even if it isn't broken?

[oratank]

\
Isn't the clock opened while Loser is regenerating his arm, even if it isn't broken?

nope the clock remain close but if you can force loser open his clock while he has regenerating his arm when clock broken he will go back into regenerating phase again like interrupting vol dragon regenerating tail

[Omega-z]

I would have to sort of agree/disagree that Techer is broken. Techer it's self has been playing the catch up game the whole time. Now that it can be on the same level it's broken?. The problem is not so much the damage except for when you add Br. The biggest thing is the Quad damage of WG on mob's with the distance of Zondeel. Now this change happened 2 yrs. ago and not to Techer but to all of the classes. But back then Techer's damage was so low that the Quad part of WG didn't matter. But now that Sega finally gave Techer more power to be viable the Quad part is to strong and needs to be tweaked . I would change it back to 6 target hit like it used to be, Just the WG. The Wand strikes would still be unlimited. But for the reduce I would have the Quad part effect bosses also. For Zondeel all it really need's is a reduce in distance and make TB Techer main only. But for the combo Te/Br, Br need's another power nerf also with tweaks to it's AA and WS. The power nerf would be on it's AA, 50% for 5 sp is to OP. It would have to be 30% instead of 50% then not having WG applied by changing WG to a special attack. This would be the same for WS, If you match your Wand to the weakness then the Wand's striking part would get the boost with no penalty but not WG since it had already triggered for the strike and changing it to the primary attack so, that the secondaries don't get the boost. This would also stop the over feeding of the Quad part of WG also. Just my 2 cents.

[LonelyGaruga]

When was WG ever max of 6 hits?

WG doesn't get Attack Advance in the first place. Only the striking part of wands gets Attack Advance. /Br actually has the weakest WG explosions.

Zondeel getting a range nerf doesn't sound too bad, but the range for support techs is universal. TB being main only would be an unnecessary nerf to Fo/Te and every other /Te class since TB is a majorly important draw to subclassing Techer in the first place. If Zondeel is getting a range nerf, I think it would make the most sense to remove the +1m from the Fierce recipes.

The adjustments to Weak Stance make no sense. As it currently is, the wand strikes don't get boosted by Weak Stance for matching elemental weakness, but WG does. This is in part because of how damage is calculated. An entirely new formula for WG would be required to make it incompatible with Weak Stance. Making wand strikes work with Weak Stance, however, would make all melee/ranged attacks work with Weak Stance, because it would change what Weak Stance looks for.

Basically, changing Weak Stance to work like you suggested would be terrible programming.

[Omega-z]

@LonelyGaruga - This was before Jan 2013. Weapons, PA's, Tech's .....etc. had set limits to how many targets they could attack. Like Ra-zan could hit three target's and lunch two of them when it was charged. Zondeel could only pull 6 target's and attack only 4 of them ignited. Wand's attacked up to 6 target's if they where close enough. WG had at first 4 target limit which made it very dangerous when you had more then 4. This was changed in Oct-Nov of 2012, with a speed increase and distance increase for Wands, a Flinch add - on and increased the Target amount from 4 to 6 for WG just to match the New Zondeel pull amount that came out earlier in Oct.. In Jan - Feb of 2013 this limit system was removed.

Yeah I goof'ed up on that part about AA and WG. But it need's to be changed still.

With Zondeel it's pretty much the jest of it the range is to big. I actually didn't minded the old school size of Zondeel that too TB should be techer only since it's one of the main reason's to play Techer. Sub'ing the class doesn't do justice to have the extra distance since your main'ing another class to get better distance damage instead of using a wand for melee. Your right tho about the +1m distance boost on Craft'ing should go away.

Yeah the Adjustments do sound weird, But it does need a rework so that matching with Melee and Ranged weapons work with WS also with out any penalties. Especially since it comes from a Melee/Ranged class. What I meant was that the initial base hit or an attack that came from the weapon,PA,Tech would tag WS if it matched the weakness but any follow up attacks that was not part of that attack ..... ie. WG..Zanverse.....etc. would not count.

It was just an idea. But Techer is far from broken, needs some work yes broken no.

[LonelyGaruga]

Making TB main class only would still unnecessarily nerf tech classes that sub Techer. Zondeel isn't just used for pulling enemies toward yourself. Talises are a thing.

Weak Stance would completely outclass Elemental Stance if it was changed the way you describe. Weak Stance is not about abusing elemental weaknesses, it's about abusing an enemy's weak points. It should work the way it does with melee/ranged attacks.

Making WG not receive Weak Stance bonuses is a completely unnecessary and pointless nerf to Te/Br and wouldn't make sense to do. WG has its own damage formula. It gets Weak Stance because of that. Zanverse does not get Weak Stance because it just takes an attack and does damage equal to it, plus some modifiers that are an entirely separate thing from how WG interacts with Weak Stance.

I don't understand why you're saying Techer needs nerfs if it isn't broken.

[Omega-z]

I'm not necessarily saying a nerf/major fix/brokenness on Techer but more of a little adjustment or a slight change in it's meta like an update.

[Keilyn]

I do Fighter/Techer and I can care less about casting Shifta Strike or Deband Toughness...or even long time assist when playing Solo.

I see 30% more critical hits and roughly 25 - 35% more damage on Fighter/Techer than I do see on Techer/Fighter and I like the weapons fighter has. I also ADD FIGHTER or PROC'ed "ALL CLASS" on my wands or Fighter on them to get the increase.

The reason why techer is devalued for Soloing as a main is because I can summon a Friend Partner which will give me Shifta Strike and Deband Toughness with no problems. IF it has Long Time Assist Combined with my Adrenaline, then all I have to do is cast shifta or deband and it gives more time to the strongest shifta and deband that is already in play.

I not only get all the buffs that techer is capable of having from a friend partner, but I get all the stuff fighter is capable of doing as well...and I still have my wands.

Fi/Te is fragile in the way I had to build it completely different to have 700 points in S-ATK and T-ATK. I had to use SAIKI + Its DEX BUFF and its affixes to help balance things out...That along with my mag.

I've spent around 70 million so far on trying to make Fighter/Techer good so far and will be spending more on it because I Found what I like.

To me its not the "Classes" that are broken, but individual skill combinations which turn bossing into EASY MODE or MPAs into super easy mode.

Endgame MPAs that take less time to kill the boss (Durios) than actually setting up and spending 30 seconds on the teleporter due to cheap shit like Weak Bullet and Chain Trigger is what does not have me take this game seriously.

Running around Solo, Staggering a Boss...and during a stagger.....wiping out around 70 - 80% of a boss's health in burst damage, to me is a clear indicator of some limitation being put into place.

Its funny because I came into PSO-2 due to my love for characters and its gameplay style from Guild Wars 2.

The difference between Guild Wars 2 and PSO-2 =

In Guild Wars 2 when you have any combination that breaks the game, Arenanet actually DESTROYS or Limits that combination severely to prevent one-trick ponys from showing up. In PSO-2 SEGA takes forever to balance anything...

I find Chain Trigger, and Weak Bullet to be overpowered....Just like I find some Dual Blade PAs to be overpowered.....then again its Sega's Flavor of the Month.

of course....another difference between SEGA and ANET =

Anet will watch all the player videos on youtube to see where problems lie so there is a fear to post any video with overpowered skill and cheap shot because they can and will bring down the nerf hammer faster than you can imagine, while PSO-2 players can all post their characters doing the exact same thing and SEGA wont nerf or balance the game.

[GoldenFalcon]

Anet
lmao

that's because they cater to the e-sports thing as much as possible

[LonelyGaruga]

@Keilyn: Well if you're playing with a friend partner 100% the time then that's different, Fi/Te would be better.

But if you ever MPA or have a full party then you're better off as Te/Fi, so...why bother? You aren't actually getting better damage as a Fi/Te. And wanting Fighter weapons when they're among the worst of melee weapons right now seems silly. You're better off using techs than you are using Fighter weapons.

I mean, if that's how you wanna play it, sure, but you're playing in a manner that is factually less efficient than you could.

[Selphea]

I find Chain Trigger, and Weak Bullet to be overpowered....Just like I find some Dual Blade PAs to be overpowered.....then again its Sega's Flavor of the Month.

To be fair almost every class has a multiplicative ability that will make a boss explode.

Ranger: Weak Bullet
Force: Ilbarta
Fighter: Limit Break
Gunner: Chain Trigger
Techer: Namegid and/or PP Convert for rapid fire PAs
Braver: Banish Arrow
Bouncer: PB Fever

Hunter doesn't have a one-shotter but does have Massive Hunter which helps to set things up. Otherwise, you can easily combine any two abilities that have synergy with each other for easy kills.

Weak Bullet + Banish is well known
Banish + Namegid or even Banish + Ilbarta is a Te/Br staple
Ilbarta + Chain hits for hilarious numbers

You could probably even do something silly like FiGu with Limit Break building chain with TMGs then switch to Daggers and Raging Waltz TAJA Orchestra.

[LonelyGaruga]

Hunter has Vol Graptor which is just as bad as Banish Arrow.

If Banish Arrow qualifies then Vol Graptor qualifies.

The only things you did list that "make bosses explode" are Weak Bullet and Chain Trigger, though. Chain Trigger is kind of questionable, at that.

Everything else is fair.

[Rien]

Volg Raptor is hard to talk about when assbuster and slide end don't do anything near what last nemesis can do.

[NexusAZ]

Volg Raptor is hard to talk about when assbuster and slide end don't do anything near what last nemesis can do.

To be fair, Uncharged Vol Graptor and two Slide Ends takes about the same amount of time as an Uncharged Banish into Final Nemesis. Final Nemesis does have the advantage of distance and having an easier time targeting weakpoints. Vol is still capable of crazy good damage though.

[Selphea]

Hunter has Vol Graptor which is just as bad as Banish Arrow.

If Banish Arrow qualifies then Vol Graptor qualifies.

The only things you did list that "make bosses explode" are Weak Bullet and Chain Trigger, though. Chain Trigger is kind of questionable, at that.

Everything else is fair.

That's the point isn't it? Every class has the tools. If every class kills bosses in seconds then the thing that's broken isn't the tools but the bosses themselves.

[Z-0]

Killing bosses in seconds makes this game fun.

[LonelyGaruga]

That's the point isn't it? Every class has the tools. If every class kills bosses in seconds then the thing that's broken isn't the tools but the bosses themselves.

I don't disagree that the bosses are badly designed. But what I was saying was that the tools aren't as broken as you were calling them. Combined, sure, you touched upon that so that's fair. Alone? Hell no. You aren't melting bosses in seconds with Namegid unless it's Quartz Dragon or something similar. You aren't melting bosses with Ilbarta, period, that thing was nerfed with EP3. You pretty much need PP Convert and Banish Arrow on top of either of those two techs to do some insane stuff. Ragrants is similarly capable. And you aren't melting a boss with Last Nemesis + Banish Arrow alone, Weak Bullet is vital to that.

I'm not even going to touch how fallacious it is to say that it's OK that every class slaughters bosses ridiculously quickly as long as they all can do it. PvE balance. Players and enemies must be balanced against each other. There is such a thing as players being too strong and requiring nerfs. But that has no merit here since Sega seems to want players to be this strong, so what can be said about that?