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View Full Version : Cluster Bullet and Technic Customize nerfs incoming, Gunner buffs incoming



Aine
Sep 2, 2014, 01:12 PM
http://pso2.jp/players/news/?id=4390

Cluster Bullet will be nerfed, as of now it deals obscene damage in some cases (you can do 130000 damage against darker cores even without standing snipe). Certain parameters in custom technics are also noted as being too high and will be nerfed (not specified which ones). Custom discs already created/used will also be affected by this nerf.

In addition to Infinity Fire and Messiah Time getting fixed (it's been noted they do much less damage than intended due to an error), Gunner PAs will be buffed all around. However, SRJAB, Chain Finish, and GM's latent will be nerfed in turn. The overall effect will be a buff that makes Gunner less reliant on SRJAB.

Skill tree resets will be handed out again.

Fixed typos. Man I'm sleepy

Maenara
Sep 2, 2014, 01:13 PM
GM's latent will be nerfed in turn.



hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Rakurai
Sep 2, 2014, 01:17 PM
Na Megid and Na Barta are almost certainly going to be nerfed, as both provide around a 50% damage increase.

Hopefully, they have the sense to buff most of the power customizations, though, as those two were seemingly the only ones that actually got stronger after the update, while almost everything else got weaker.

Xaelouse
Sep 2, 2014, 01:18 PM
I dont think Kreisenschlag is doing the damage it's supposed to either, but nobody plays gunslash so it'll be ignored.

Z-0
Sep 2, 2014, 01:18 PM
All the fire customizations are most likely going to get nerfed. They were already OP since before the update, as they provide no demerit (-SE lolol) and a very good chunk of damage.

Xaeris
Sep 2, 2014, 01:21 PM
Gunner adjustments are cool. GM nerf is whatever, seeing as only bad gunners crutched on it and good gunners favored other latents. I'll happily exchange the strength of its latent for more PA power.

Nerfing technique customizations is BS though. That's millions invested right there. I don't like this precedence one bit.

SakoHaruo
Sep 2, 2014, 01:22 PM
Well.... fuck.

CHANGE IS GOOD THOUGH!


Sega will never give me a chance to jump into tech crafting with all these changes.

Maenara
Sep 2, 2014, 01:23 PM
Also, what is 'less reliant'? Is it 'still completely reliant because holy shit that's a 40% damage increase which is twice any other multiplier we get in our tree'?

Zyrusticae
Sep 2, 2014, 01:24 PM
Oh, very good news about the Gunner buffs. At 150%, we're still waaaaay too reliant on S-rolling to do optimal damage. Nice that they're further reducing our dependence on that junk.

Of course, it's possible we'll just see everyone move to spamming Satellite Aim on knockback-immune targets now (if they aren't already), but that's a future that I can live with.

Rakurai
Sep 2, 2014, 01:25 PM
I don't see why they'd nerf the fire customizations when they've proportionately gotten worse after the update.

They're also hardly the only techs with meaningless demerits.

reaper527
Sep 2, 2014, 01:26 PM
come on, gm is old enough at this point that is is a utility weapon and not a primary weapon. there is no reason for sega to be touching this potential unless they want to put it on some other weapons.

Z-0
Sep 2, 2014, 01:31 PM
I don't see why they'd nerf the fire customizations when they've proportionately gotten worse after the update.

They're also hardly the only techs with meaningless demerits.
The problem is that the technique and the customization has made them too strong. It's nothing to do with the customizations getting "better" in any way by themselves.

Rafoie is definitely one of those, for example, as 405% power with ~110% power added from customization is definitely a significant increase, and with Rafoie easily hitting over 20K mindlessly, it's probably in need of a nerf.

Xaeris
Sep 2, 2014, 01:42 PM
Also, what is 'less reliant'? Is it 'still completely reliant because holy shit that's a 40% damage increase which is twice any other multiplier we get in our tree'?

There's probably a sweet spot there the bonus would be enough that it's worth taking as an incidental damage boost whenever you use S-Roll to maneuver or avoid damage, but not so much that it's foolish not to precede every attack with an S-Roll. Basically, I think what SRJA should do is compensate you for the DPS you lose when you cut an attack short to dodge.

What they could (but won't) do is buff the PAs with SRJA in mind, i.e, buff the PAs that aren't typically coupled with SRJA more than the ones that are. IF and ER? Mild boost. Satellite Aim and Reverse Tap? Big boost. Bullet Squall? Ginourmous boost.

Kondibon
Sep 2, 2014, 01:58 PM
There's probably a sweet spot there the bonus would be enough that it's worth taking as an incidental damage boost whenever you use S-Roll to maneuver or avoid damage, but not so much that it's foolish not to precede every attack with an S-Roll.That sweet spot by the way, is whenever you can get out more attacks in a row than S-roll improves your damage. This is why having it at 200% was such a bit deal. The PAs that worked best with it all have FAR longer animations than S-rolling so it was never worth using them more than once in a row. I actually think it still isn't nerfed enough yet, and I agree that the PAs that don't synergize well with it should buffed a bit more, but they ARE usable.

Edson Drake
Sep 2, 2014, 02:55 PM
If they want us to be less reliant on S JA Roll why not just take it away?

They revamped all the skill trees, take off the damn thing and add something like Fighter has, chaining different PAs for the bonus. Much more elegant than keep nerfing an already much hated skill.

Get rid of it.

HeyItsTHK
Sep 2, 2014, 03:02 PM
I do like the idea of S JA Roll becoming S JA Combo roll or something.

Xaeris
Sep 2, 2014, 03:06 PM
I don't think getting rid of it altogether wouldn't be a good solution. Dodging is a necessary part of the gunner's fighting style, with TMG gear, Perfect Keeper and High Time all being contingent on the player not getting struck while ZRA 1&2 incentive the player to stay within the enemy's spitting distance. So, it's good that we have a skill that compensates us for the damage lost from cutting attacks short. They should just do a better job of hitting that sweet spot.

Laxedrane
Sep 2, 2014, 03:30 PM
They could just get rid of the damage aspect all together. And add a buff that's nice but doesn't demand you to use it to wind up your attacks. Something like for 1 sp you save 3 pp on a photon art done following a stylish roll. Or have the animation be slightly faster when performing an attack or PA after a roll. Fast enough to be noticeable and worth it. Slow enough to not make it so gunner HAVE to do it in order to deal the most damage.

Just a nice perk for after you dodged anyways.

Kondibon
Sep 2, 2014, 03:36 PM
Balance changes again so soon? I must be dreaming.

EDIT: Wait, what's wrong with cluster bullet? I use it all the time and it just feels like a short range Divine Launcher with a bigger AoE damage wise. Is there some sort of glitch causing it to hit higher than normal that I don't know abou? It never felt overpowered compared to any other launcher PAs.

Aine
Sep 2, 2014, 03:58 PM
Balance changes again so soon? I must be dreaming.

EDIT: Wait, what's wrong with cluster bullet? I use it all the time and it just feels like a short range Divine Launcher with a bigger AoE damage wise. Is there some sort of glitch causing it to hit higher than normal that I don't know abou? It never felt overpowered compared to any other launcher PAs.

I think it's some bug or oversight with multipliers, against certain targets like darker cores the damage is absurd. I was just running XQs and the Olg Brans went down in one shot.

Celille
Sep 2, 2014, 04:03 PM
Did they give a timeline on when these buffs/nerfs are coming? I can't go to the link atm.

Z-0
Sep 2, 2014, 04:07 PM
Sometime in October

The Walrus
Sep 2, 2014, 04:12 PM
I hope they just change the skill to 20%, give us a increase of like 40% normally and increase non-weakpoint damage by 20%. Then nerf chain a bit >.>

Xaeris
Sep 2, 2014, 04:14 PM
"Hey Gary-san, Cluster Bullet's OP as hell and we kinda broke two of TMG's most important arts. We should probably do something about that."
"Pencil it in for October."
"Uh, really? I mean, we hopped on Fury Stance being stupid OP for Rangers a while back pretty fast. Couldn't we just-"
"Nah, s'fine. October's good."

UnLucky
Sep 2, 2014, 04:15 PM
Custom discs already created/used will also be affected by this nerf.
Yay I like crafting the same tech thousands of time to get the real advertised bonus without a crippling demerit that makes it worse than not crafting it at all, then losing all of that progress whenever they feel like changing them or releasing a new one.


However, SRJAB, Chain Finish, and GM's latent will be nerfed in turn.
What, another nerf? They already lost damage, so how is further reducing everything going to compensate for that? Do they mean the normal CF multiplier, or the skill? Did they release Twice Chain just to force everyone to take 5/10 in CF so they can get the same damage bonus as before, and only with TMGs to kill any benefit for subclassing?

The bonus on the skill itself is definitely high if you could always have a chain active on every enemy all of the time, but that's obviously not the case.

You know, like WHA, which is also 35%.

Xaeris
Sep 2, 2014, 04:18 PM
I imagine the Chain Finish nerf is to counteract the effect the boost to TMG PAs' base strength. Probably the same deal with Celestial Bullet, actually, but that'll almost certainly be weaker after the fact while I think the math will probably work out to stronger Chain Finishers if these PA boosts are substantial enough.

gigawuts
Sep 2, 2014, 04:19 PM
http://pso2.jp/players/news/?id=4390

Cluster Bullet will be nerfed, as of now it deals obscene damage in some cases (you can do 130000 damage against darker cores even without standing snipe). Certain parameters in custom technics are also noted as being too high and will be nerfed (not specified which ones). Custom discs already created/used will also be affected by this nerf.

In addition to Infinity Fire and Messiah Time getting fixed (it's been noted they do much less damage than intended due to an error), Gunner PAs will be buffed all around. However, SRJAB, Chain Finish, and GM's latent will be nerfed in turn. The overall effect will be a buff that makes Gunner less reliant on SRJAB.

Skill tree resets will be handed out again.

Fixed typos. Man I'm sleepy

As someone who guns with GMs exclusively (mostly because I sold off all my other mechguns in anticipation of price crashes that did come, but wanted to keep GMs): Finally.

Also, SRJAB shouldn't cost 9 SP to max if they're nerfing it again. I'd like to see SRJAB at around 20-30%, costing only the 5 SP. Combine the other two skills and place them below SRJAB for someone who actually wants them (lol).

edit: Oh and I'd love to see Standing Snipe activate mid-PA. It'd be nice for Infinity Fire.

elryan
Sep 2, 2014, 04:30 PM
In addition to Infinity Fire and Messiah Time getting fixed

Yes!


Gunner PAs will be buffed all around

Yesss!


However, SRJAB... The overall effect will be a buff that makes Gunner less reliant on SRJAB.

YESSSS!!!


... Chain Finish...

WTF NONONONO WHY WHY WHY!?!?


GM's latent will be nerfed in turn

Well I don't use this, although always wanted it. (never drops for me)


Skill tree resets will be handed out again.

Oh well, we'll just have to wait and see for the changes in October.

Unnamed Player
Sep 2, 2014, 04:34 PM
As someone who guns with GMs exclusively (mostly because I sold off all my other mechguns in anticipation of price crashes that did come, but wanted to keep GMs): Finally.Sooner or later the power creep in this game would have done the same thing anyway.

gigawuts
Sep 2, 2014, 04:44 PM
Sooner or later the power creep in this game would have done the same thing anyway.

Oh, for sure, but crafting would have kept them at least somewhat relevant in the long term.

The HP steal nerf is what I really care about regarding GMs.

IMO, they shouldn't even steal HP the way they do. It should be conditional. Like, only normal attacks (my favorite - normals means no hyper armor), or maybe only bullets (not a big difference, but excludes kicks), or only headshots, or only crits, or something that isn't all damage all the time.

The Walrus
Sep 2, 2014, 04:50 PM
Only during a chain finish?

gigawuts
Sep 2, 2014, 04:55 PM
Only during Chain counting and Chain Finish would be cool, good idea.

HeyItsTHK
Sep 2, 2014, 05:06 PM
Y'know I'm okay with releasing my GMs back to the wild. There was something guilty about using them, but if you got it why not use it. Guess I'll get Helens whenever I feel like playing Gunner again. I kinda want the new 11 star ones though. Too bad they drop from the rare wheel, fighting that guy is annoying enough for me without having to do it ad nauseum.

UnLucky
Sep 2, 2014, 05:16 PM
I imagine the Chain Finish nerf is to counteract the effect the boost to TMG PAs' base strength.
But CT is already a worse WB in practically every way besides the bonus at extremely high chain count. Except that takes too long, can be cancelled or dropped depending on the circumstances, and you only get one rather than 4, and only you get the damage bonus.


As someone who guns with GMs exclusively (mostly because I sold off all my other mechguns in anticipation of price crashes that did come, but wanted to keep GMs): Finally.
Yes. Even 1% HP steal from PAs is ridiculous. I would still main GMs with that as its level 3 potential.

Unnamed Player
Sep 2, 2014, 05:16 PM
but if you got it why not use itBecause there are better ones.

Kikikiki
Sep 2, 2014, 08:16 PM
Balance changes again so soon? I must be dreaming.

EDIT: Wait, what's wrong with cluster bullet? I use it all the time and it just feels like a short range Divine Launcher with a bigger AoE damage wise. Is there some sort of glitch causing it to hit higher than normal that I don't know abou? It never felt overpowered compared to any other launcher PAs.

When you can reach 6 digits with Cluster Bullet there's a problem.

Kondibon
Sep 2, 2014, 08:40 PM
When you can reach 6 digits with Cluster Bullet there's a problem.Yes, but my question was how is it happening? I'm not saying that isn't a problem, I'm just wondering what's causing it in the first place. If it's ONLY cluster bullet that can hit that high it must be a glitch, because the other high damage Launcher PAs have around the same damage.

Kikikiki
Sep 2, 2014, 08:50 PM
Yes, but my question was how is it happening? I'm not saying that isn't a problem, I'm just wondering what's causing it in the first place. If it's ONLY cluster bullet that can hit that high it must be a glitch, because the other high damage Launcher PAs have around the same damage.

It may be a bug related to darker cores and infected cores like Aine said.

But really, even if it's not 6 digits, you can still OHKO mostly everything with Cluster Bullet. It's just that powerful.

gigawuts
Sep 2, 2014, 09:00 PM
Cluster Bullet was already pretty powerful. I'm not up to snuff on the TA ubermeta, but couldn't it already 1shot basically everything you could land a headshot on?

Or was the HU nerf significant enough to lower RA below the 1shot barrier against enough things?

I wish they'd reduce the multipliers on RA (15% for WHA sounds fair) and reduce Weak Bullet to 50%, and give every class something that improved other players' performance. Fields, hitbox debuffs, etc. War Cry should reduce affected target defense, Chain should give everyone a little bit of bonus damage, stuff like that. Just to spread the friendly buffing a bit more evenly, and reduce the reliance on multiplier overload that results in things like this, since this may as well not be a glitch with how strong things have been in the past.

Xaeris
Sep 2, 2014, 09:05 PM
But CT is already a worse WB in practically every way besides the bonus at extremely high chain count. Except that takes too long, can be cancelled or dropped depending on the circumstances, and you only get one rather than 4, and only you get the damage bonus.


I'm not really talking about CT's worth right now (though I'd say you're overstating its weaknesses). What I'm saying is that, because of the PA buffs, a nerf to Chain Finish may not result in lower damage from using Chain Trigger since Chain Trigger is highly sensitive to changes in PA damage. In this case, a decision to nerf Chain Finish says more about how much they intend to buff the TMG PAs than anything else.

horseship
Sep 2, 2014, 09:06 PM
I've only seen myself hit 6 digit cluster bullet once, and it was on a broken Cyclonehda crotch. Not sure if those are "more weak" than other weak points, but I can only hit 70k on Goldrahda heads. And even that's still a stupid amount.

Cluster bullet definitely one shotted pretty much everything in TA in the past, although I don't remember how much damage it used to do. I believe 30-50k on weak points? I thought it was ridiculously broken in episode 2, there's no way it needed the buff it got.

gigawuts
Sep 2, 2014, 09:08 PM
I seem to recall 60k-80k in a screenshot by Bellion some time ago, of a bunch of gulfs being hit by CB.

Personally, I used to hit something like...I want to say 39k? Or was it 49k? It was on some shitty gear and an uncapped char, but it was more than enough for mostly everything that didn't have a loot crystal.

Kondibon
Sep 2, 2014, 09:13 PM
The reason I'm so confused by this is that things like Divine Launcher do similar damage so I'm wondering if it's really only Cluster Bullet that's too strong. Wouldn't it be better to find the source of whatever is making it hit so high and nerf that instead?
Unless it really is a glitch of course.

EDIT: Also, all you guys talking about hitting 30k+ with it and I'm here hitting 10-12k on headshots. ; A;

Bellion
Sep 2, 2014, 09:14 PM
That was with Divine Launcher and currently Cluster Bullet is stronger than Divine Launcher, so yeah. 100k with all of the multipliers available on the standard x2 headshot multiplier is do-able.

Who is the genius that thought of a wide AoE being much more stronger than small AoE was a good idea?

Maenara
Sep 2, 2014, 09:16 PM
Sega guy 1: Huh, look at that, Launcher is doing high damage to match its low speed
Sega guy 2: Wait you mean we accidentally balanced launchers? shitshitshitshitshit

SakoHaruo
Sep 2, 2014, 09:17 PM
The way TAs are designed makes Cluster Bullet an extremely powerful PA, and even gaijins can chain enemies with it!

Xaeris
Sep 2, 2014, 09:17 PM
They could find so much more of these things if they actually playtested their patches. Like, we've seen pictures and videos of them playing advance builds, so we know they can. There's just no credible evidence that they do.

Kondibon
Sep 2, 2014, 09:18 PM
Who is the genius that thought of a wide AoE being much more stronger than small AoE was a good idea?Didn't it used to be weaker?

I agree but I think the reason it does about the same damage is because of the range. The AoE is bigger but you can't hit stuff from as far with it. That just never really becomes a thing because at a certain range hitting anything with any other launcher shot is hit or miss (hurhur).


Sega guy 1: Huh, look at that, Launcher is doing high damage to match its low speed
Sega guy 2: Wait you mean we accidentally balanced launchers? shitshitshitshitshitLaunchers aren't that slow... ._.

Bellion
Sep 2, 2014, 09:30 PM
Yes, Cluster was always weaker than Divine until episode 3.

Even though being able to hit some mobs at zero range or long range was an advantage of Divine, I think it was more fair for Divine having an edge in damage due to the smaller AoE.

Cluster was dominant at close and mid range, but the AoE is really wide. Being able to hit like 10+ enemies scattered at mid range had more than made up for the lower damage compared to Divine. Also, hitting enemies from above like malmoths or micdas is just great.

Kikikiki
Sep 2, 2014, 09:38 PM
Didn't it used to be weaker?

Not that much weaker for how it works was it somewhere around 68x% before it got buffed? You can even hit freshly-spawned enemies with Cluster, with mediocre ping, while Divine Launcher requires extremely good ping to do that.

I personally was still hitting 50k-ish with a Launcher Legacy without team tree buff anyway :wacko: With Red Scorpio and the proper buffs I can't even start imagining the numbers :wacko:

Kondibon
Sep 2, 2014, 09:42 PM
Yes, Cluster was always weaker than Divine until episode 3.

Even though being able to hit some mobs at zero range or long range was an advantage of Divine, I think it was more fair for Divine having an edge in damage due to the smaller AoE.

Cluster was dominant at close and mid range, but the AoE is really wide. Being able to hit like 10+ enemies scattered at mid range had more than made up for the lower damage compared to Divine. Also, hitting enemies from above like malmoths or micdas is just great.


Not that much weaker for how it works was it somewhere around 68x% before it got buffed? You can even hit freshly-spawned enemies with Cluster, with mediocre ping, while Divine Launcher requires extremely good ping to do that.

I personally was still hitting 50k-ish with a Launcher Legacy without team tree buff anyway :wacko: With Red Scorpio and the proper buffs I can't even start imagining the numbers :wacko:

Don't get me wrong guys, I DO think it needs to be noticeably weaker (as in do less damage, not being less useful) than divine launcher so that they're both useful. I was just saying the reason why sega probably hasn't made it so yet is because they thought the range thing was a big enough limiting factor when clearly it isn't.

Zorua
Sep 2, 2014, 10:21 PM
I had high hopes for this new balancing team when they first revealed the new trees, but now I'm not so sure about them. First off, why are they nerfing technic customization? Force already got hit hard by the rebalance, but SEGA wants to hit it even harder? Pretty much everyone jumped on the Bouncer hype train, don't make the last couple of forces get on it too, SEGA. Then what they're planning to do to Gunner sounds even worse. I thought that SEGA wanted people to stop abusing Hunter as a subclass, but this update is screaming, "Please play Gu/Hu." I mean, CT was already pretty useless and situational at best, but now they're going to nerf CF's damage... Just when I thought burst damage build's were getting some help too. Now you have to be using TMGs to get the chain high, or CT isn't even worth having. If CT was too easy to spam, they could have just made it harder to spam. In fact, why would anyone need to spam chain? When are you going to be using it other than against bosses? To top it off, they're buffing Infinite Fire. I hope GM doesn't get nerfed so hard that Gu/Hus won't be able to keep themselves alive, otherwise TD3 will be Shunka War again... except the braver corpses will be gunner corpses.

"All you Gu/Ras, Ra/Gus, and Fo/Gus! Go play Gu/Hu plz!"

Shiyo
Sep 2, 2014, 10:25 PM
Yay, finally cluster bullet gets nerfed.

Sick of rangers instantly 1 shotting trash with this skill.

Can't wait for S roll nerfs and GU buffs, maybe I'll actually be able to play the class in october.

un1t27
Sep 2, 2014, 10:28 PM
Yay, finally cluster bullet gets nerfed.

Sick of rangers instantly 1 shotting trash with this skill.

Can't wait for S roll nerfs and GU buffs, maybe I'll actually be able to play the class in october.

mad because they kill faster than you do ?

Melodys
Sep 2, 2014, 10:35 PM
Gunner's already becoming a bit subpar with the way it is. I hope the PAs would get a large buff to make up for the old damage loss and the further nerf to S-roll. Hoping that GM's potential won't get changed in what triggers the HP recovery. Having it 1/2/3% is fine but having trigger on other conditions like 'normal attack only' would just kill it. Not to mention, that's a further loss of 20%/400 R-atk damage due to no more reliable Perfect Keeper. I don't care too much for CT's nerf since I just think of it more like a luxury skill. If it works, great. If not, oh well.

The damage nerf to technic customize. If it's too severe, I've basically wasted millions on things like Rafoie and Ragrants. I was also starting to enjoy cluster bullet too until Sega said they over-buffed it.

btw-Niji
Sep 2, 2014, 10:37 PM
mad because they kill faster than you do ?
Anybody can kill faster than Shiyo... he's your typical B20 garbage who also pretends to be a girl on the internet for attention.

The Walrus
Sep 2, 2014, 10:38 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-toMeFQvo6xE/UyjlT2usGiI/AAAAAAAAwT0/GT3iYAr-6jM/s1600/Shots+Fired.jpg

un1t27
Sep 2, 2014, 10:38 PM
Anybody can kill faster than Shiyo... he's your typical B20 garbage who pretends to be a girl on the internet for attention.

This is very interesting.

Kondibon
Sep 2, 2014, 10:38 PM
mad because they kill faster than you do ?Personally I' mmad that oneshotting is the standard for the meta in the first place, but that's just me.

Arksenth
Sep 2, 2014, 10:39 PM
I had high hopes for this new balancing team when they first revealed the new trees, but now I'm not so sure about them. First off, why are they nerfing technic customization? Force already got hit hard by the rebalance, but SEGA wants to hit it even harder? Pretty much everyone jumped on the Bouncer hype train, don't make the last couple of forces get on it too, SEGA. Then what they're planning to do to Gunner sounds even worse. I thought that SEGA wanted people to stop abusing Hunter as a subclass, but this update is screaming, "Please play Gu/Hu." I mean, CT was already pretty useless and situational at best, but now they're going to nerf CF's damage... Just when I thought burst damage build's were getting some help too. Now you have to be using TMGs to get the chain high, or CT isn't even worth having. If CT was too easy to spam, they could have just made it harder to spam. In fact, why would anyone need to spam chain? When are you going to be using it other than against bosses? To top it off, they're buffing Infinite Fire. I hope GM doesn't get nerfed so hard that Gu/Hus won't be able to keep themselves alive, otherwise TD3 will be Shunka War again... except the braver corpses will be gunner corpses.

"All you Gu/Ras, Ra/Gus, and Fo/Gus! Go play Gu/Hu plz!"

=|

It's not a "nerf".

They didn't adjust the Power Craft recipes after they modified the numbers, when the power crafts were balanced around previous technique numbers.

So now Namegid craft amplifies damage by like, +50%, when it's not supposed to do that.

They're just readjusting it to the new modifiers.

btw-Niji
Sep 2, 2014, 10:44 PM
=|

It's not a "nerf".

They didn't adjust the Power Craft recipes after they modified the numbers, when the power crafts were balanced around previous technique numbers.

So now Namegid craft amplifies damage by like, +50%, when it's not supposed to do that.

They're just readjusting it to the new modifiers.
sup poor person

Kikikiki
Sep 2, 2014, 10:57 PM
And then you still see people oneshotting stuffs with Red Scorpio even after the nerf.

Get rekt.

Shiyo
Sep 2, 2014, 10:57 PM
mad because they kill faster than you do ?

I don't think it's possible to be that childish, so no. I just don't like the fact that it was such a strong PA for mobbing - and the devs obviously agree with me. It also opens up more options for other PA's to be used as a ranger, which is always a good thing! Options are good.

GU buffs and tech craft rebalancing is the best part by far, though!

The new dev is doing a great job, very impressed so far.

Dephinix
Sep 2, 2014, 11:22 PM
Personally I' mmad that oneshotting is the standard for the meta in the first place, but that's just me.

Trash shouldn't ever take more than one shot when in SH you can easily get large mobs around you. If you're using one PA and clearing a mob oh high hp enemies like those new field goalers in Shironia, then yeah, that should be demanding of a nerf.

Nothing hurts more in this game than being kicked like a ball. :|

Kondibon
Sep 2, 2014, 11:29 PM
Trash shouldn't ever take more than one shot when in SH you can easily get large mobs around you. If you're using one PA and clearing a mob oh high hp enemies like those new field goalers in Shironia, then yeah, that should be demanding of a nerf.

Nothing hurts more in this game than being kicked like a ball. :|Even the large mobs die too fast. The entire mechanic of status effects is rendered pointless by how fast things die unless you're intentionally gimping yourself hard. If enemies can easily die in one hit then what's the point of them being there.

I mean unless sega went the opposite route and made there so many enemies that cutting through large swaths of them is the point a la sengoku basara. But not nearly enough enemies spawn for that.

Stickboy
Sep 2, 2014, 11:34 PM
i don't mind hitting with shit numbers, gave more challange. but some ppl want to finish the run quick enough

hoangsea
Sep 2, 2014, 11:42 PM
finally GM got nerf
i have seen many ppl called them "tanker" with an GM :-?

and force nerf is an another good moves since they rafoe all the thing now :(

Kondibon
Sep 2, 2014, 11:44 PM
i don't mind hitting with shit numbers, gave more challange. but some ppl want to finish the run quick enoughI don't care about challenge. Lower numbers and dying won't make things more challenging, people get used to stuff all the time.

I just want more of the game's mechanics like juggling and SEs to be incorporated into general gameplay without requiring you to slow everyone down.


finally GM got nerf
i have seen many ppl called them "tanker" with an GM :-?
Tankier isn't the word I'd use. Maybe "invincible" or "imortal".

Kikikiki
Sep 2, 2014, 11:46 PM
But it was made to tank.

What's wrong with calling themselves tankers.

Unless they haven't unlocked the potential and still calling themselves tankers.

:wacko:

Dephinix
Sep 2, 2014, 11:46 PM
Even the large mobs die too fast. The entire mechanic of status effects is rendered pointless by how fast things die unless you're intentionally gimping yourself hard. If enemies can easily die in one hit then what's the point of them being there.

I mean unless sega went the opposite route and made there so many enemies that cutting through large swaths of them is the point a la sengoku basara. But not nearly enough enemies spawn for that.

Lol, Sengoku, though that would be pretty fun, if even just an EQ. Or LQ even.

Well, that's why I like playing Ra/Br or Gu/Br. Besides Diffuse Shell and my rare Sat Cannon on Spardans, I'm always in TPS to ensure weak damage, or else I lose my entire 165% weak damage. Praise thy Fury Stance nerf!

wefwq
Sep 2, 2014, 11:52 PM
Good thing they finally realize tech crafting can result in OP damage.

Zyrusticae
Sep 3, 2014, 12:01 AM
I don't care about challenge. Lower numbers and dying won't make things more challenging, people get used to stuff all the time.

I just want more of the game's mechanics like juggling and SEs to be incorporated into general gameplay without requiring you to slow everyone down.
Indeed, even with my shitty gear I'm killing things in one or two blows, rendering status effects entirely irrelevant for all intents and purposes (ESPECIALLY since bosses are immune to them - like, COMPLETELY IMMUNE!! Yes, this pisses me off).

If enemies had four or five times as much HP, status effects would actually have some meaning (as would stuns and knock-ups). Of course, they'd have to increase drop and XP rates accordingly to match (and maybe make it faster/easier to reach S-rank), but that's a trivial calculation. I think the game would benefit quite a bit from such a change.

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 12:09 AM
Indeed, even with my shitty gear I'm killing things in one or two blows, rendering status effects entirely irrelevant for all intents and purposes (ESPECIALLY since bosses are immune to them - like, COMPLETELY IMMUNE!! Yes, this pisses me off).

If enemies had four or five times as much HP, status effects would actually have some meaning (as would stuns and knock-ups). Of course, they'd have to increase drop and XP rates accordingly to match (and maybe make it faster/easier to reach S-rank), but that's a trivial calculation. I think the game would benefit quite a bit from such a change.Yeah, shock and Confusion are REALLY good... but who ever bothers with them? Enemies having more base hp would make putting burn and poison on normal enemies more of a boon since, as things are right now, other than the few bosses you can poison you end up doing more damage each hit than the poison does per tic.
Mirage needs to be changed though. There's no indication of when the enemy is going to miss until they hit you and wiff, in which case you'd probably be dodging or blocking anyway. Not to mention how rarely it happens in the first place.

The only change freeze needs is letting you continue to move the mobs around with grabs and vacuum skills/PAs.

The Walrus
Sep 3, 2014, 12:10 AM
Freeze needs to be changed more for players than enemies >.>

Just let me break out of it like in the original PSO ;_;

GHNeko
Sep 3, 2014, 12:12 AM
Trash mobs wouldnt need more HP if they'd function as more than just moving targets and actually fought back more and had more defensive abilities.

The amount of down time enemies have even in SH is too high.

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 12:15 AM
Freeze needs to be changed more for players than enemies >.>

Just let me break out of it like in the original PSO ;_;Freeze, confusion, and Mirage have a impact on us than on enemies. It's ridiculous. D:


Trash mobs wouldnt need more HP if they'd function as more than just moving targets and actually fought back more and had more defensive abilities.

The amount of down time enemies have even in SH is too high.Defensive abilites like what...? I agree about them being more aggressive though. At least some of them. There are actually a few enemies that can get really annoying with how often they attack already if you aren't focusing on them (strahda for instance)

Dephinix
Sep 3, 2014, 12:15 AM
Yeah, shock and Confusion are REALLY good... but who ever bothers with them? Enemies having more base hp would make putting burn and poison on normal enemies more of a boon since, as things are right now, other than the few bosses you can poison you end up doing more damage each hit than the poison does per tic.
Mirage needs to be changed though. There's no indication of when the enemy is going to miss until they hit you and wiff, in which case you'd probably be dodging or blocking anyway. Not to mention how rarely it happens in the first place.

The only change freeze needs is letting you continue to move the mobs around with grabs and vacuum skills/PAs.

Shock is good? Surely not in SH, they usually seem to laugh at it. I used to play a status fighter with Status IV or V on each twin daggers. I was so happy when bind replaced shock, as it did much more.

As far as being undergeared and it not mattering, people DID complain about this a few months back. "Oh, I don't have affixed gear and can't one shot trash like everyone else". I see the ball has hit the other side of the court, but the game should definitely end soon.

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 12:20 AM
Shock is good? Surely not in SH, they usually seem to laugh at it. I used to play a status fighter with Status IV or V on each twin daggers. I was so happy when bind replaced shock, as it did much more.
Shock knocks wondas (and other large annoying enemies) the fuck down without you having to do anything and staggers most enemies often enough that they can't attack. Not to mention it staggers through most enemy's hyper armor. It works on pretty much every normal enemies in the game unlike most status effects which have whole groups of enemies they just straight don't effect. (you can't poison bug or bird darkers for instance).

Chances are you didn't see how effective it is because you were killing things so fast, which is kinda my whole point.

Shiyo
Sep 3, 2014, 12:30 AM
I would like more enemies like the Shironia ones that have tons of HP and lots of AOE attacks, but make them much, much more aggressive and attack faster.

Shironia is my favorite zone simply because of how much better the enemies are there(beefier, stronger, scarier) than any other zone.

Zones like forest, tundra,desert, tunnels, volcano, are really boring just due to how bad the trash mobs are.

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 12:31 AM
I would like more enemies like the Shironia ones that have tons of HP and lots of AOE attacks, but make them much, much more aggressive and attack faster.

Shironia is my favorite zone simply because of how much better the enemies are there(beefier, stronger, scarier) than any other zone.

Zones like forest, tundra,desert, tunnels, volcano, are really boring just due to how bad the trash mobs are.I agree for the most part, and given sega's predisposition to add new content instead of balancing old content it's probably intentional. Hopefully they go back and retroactively tweak things. Or Ultimate turns out to actually be Ultimate and shit gets real. I:

Rakurai
Sep 3, 2014, 12:33 AM
We need more enemies as aggressive as those doll darkers.

Those are the only enemies that I really feel pressured if I'm having to deal with more then one of them simultaneously, since they're totally relentless once they get going.

hoangsea
Sep 3, 2014, 12:35 AM
But it was made to tank.

What's wrong with calling themselves tankers.

Unless they haven't unlocked the potential and still calling themselves tankers.

:wacko:

dealer class who can tank = riddiculous Imba
that 's why GM and gunner them self got nerf :-?

btw
about this game difficultity, i agreed that it's still too easy
unless they plan to release new difficult soon with an ultra hard mode that ppl need to co-op to surive to make supporter, tanker build usefull

Shiyo
Sep 3, 2014, 12:38 AM
It seems like it's a common complaint in pretty much every MMO lately. "This game is too easy".

Sucks that video games now cater to lesser skilled players SO much, I could understand easing them into the game and expecting them to improve as they get higher, but it's just gotten worse and worse as years have gone on this past decade.

Sucks.

Dephinix
Sep 3, 2014, 12:45 AM
Shock knocks wondas (and other large annoying enemies) the fuck down without you having to do anything and staggers most enemies often enough that they can't attack. Not to mention it staggers through most enemy's hyper armor. It works on pretty much every normal enemies in the game unlike most status effects which have whole groups of enemies they just straight don't effect. (you can't poison bug or bird darkers for instance).

Chances are you didn't see how effective it is because you were killing things so fast, which is kinda my whole point.

Even as a guard hunter, everyone I played with complained the knock down wasn't happening in general, especially in Base Defense. I know what it affects and who gets the special effects(used to be a chase advance fighter, wolg would take the full 55% damage bonus from inflicting shock), but just never seen them actually stagger but a rare few times in SH. Even oodans doing their little jump attack, it would spark as if it was going to happen, but they would just gain super armor for whatever reason.

GALEFORCE
Sep 3, 2014, 12:49 AM
While we're bitching about the current state of the game, give every enemy a goddamn headshot. Playing Ra/Br is so painful in shironia, and it's all because of a single enemy that doesn't have a headshot until the face cover breaks. Literally need to break out the WB if it ever shows up and I'm solo.

Hrith
Sep 3, 2014, 12:50 AM
The overall effect will be a buff that makes Gunner less reliant on SRJAB.So I may play gunner again, woot.

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 12:52 AM
It seems like it's a common complaint in pretty much every MMO lately. "This game is too easy".

Sucks that video games now cater to lesser skilled players SO much, I could understand easing them into the game and expecting them to improve as they get higher, but it's just gotten worse and worse as years have gone on this past decade.

Sucks.It's got to do with a fear of making "exclusive" content that would drive casual players away. Theoretically it should be possible to make content that caters to both types of players but often times the devs underestimate the players, whereas in single player games that are meant to be "hard" (The Souls games, anything by platinum, The megaten games etc) they deliberately go out of their way to make things as unfairly weighed against the player as possible because they don't have to worry about maintaining a large player base that's constantly feeding the game money.

And then people find ways to cheese things anyway, but that's how the cookie crumbles.


Even as a guard hunter, everyone I played with complained the knock down wasn't happening in general, especially in Base Defense. I know what it affects and who gets the special effects(used to be a chase advance fighter, wolg would take the full 55% damage bonus from inflicting shock), but just never seen them actually stagger but a rare few times in SH. Even oodans doing their little jump attack, it would spark as if it was going to happen, but they would just gain super armor for whatever reason.I wasn't talking about using it on Oodans. ._. When I said it was useful I meant on large mobs like Wondas and Gorongos.

And I see it knock things down all the time. I mean, I'm sure there are some animations that enemies can't be knocked out of at all, but I know it works for stopping rolling gorongos and stuff. I guess it doesn't matter though since it's not like anyone uses status effects anyway.

Dephinix
Sep 3, 2014, 12:56 AM
Ah, yeah, you're right, it can stop them, but that animation takes so damn long just for them to roll, poor bastards, xD

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 12:58 AM
I wouldn't mind if the tic timer went faster, but... that's what higher levels of shock do anyway, so eh. :U

GHNeko
Sep 3, 2014, 01:09 AM
Defensive abilites like what...? I agree about them being more aggressive though. At least some of them. There are actually a few enemies that can get really annoying with how often they attack already if you aren't focusing on them (strahda for instance)

Well, dragonkin with shields block attacks fairly frequently (at least if your mashing.)

Having them and the Wonda twins (....wow) aggressively track the aggro'd players with their shields would be nice.

The Wonda twins are really slow when it comes to adjusting their shield to face the player. Dragonkin could use a lesson or two in Z-targeting.

I'm not gonna go into details, but basically defensive and evasive mechanics would be kicked up a notch.


I would like more enemies like the Shironia ones that have tons of HP and lots of AOE attacks, but make them much, much more aggressive and attack faster.

Shironia is my favorite zone simply because of how much better the enemies are there(beefier, stronger, scarier) than any other zone.

Zones like forest, tundra,desert, tunnels, volcano, are really boring just due to how bad the trash mobs are.

Pretty much this. Japanland is great. I love it to death. I want the rest of content they pump out to be like Japanland but with increasing intensity.


It seems like it's a common complaint in pretty much every MMO lately. "This game is too easy".

Sucks that video games now cater to lesser skilled players SO much, I could understand easing them into the game and expecting them to improve as they get higher, but it's just gotten worse and worse as years have gone on this past decade.

Sucks.

Blue Ocean Strats and Safe Investment strats.

If you pour millions of dollars into a game, you want as many people playing to make your money back and the turn a profit.

The better the cost of production, the large of a fanbase you need to turn a profit in an acceptable time frame.

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 01:12 AM
Well, dragonkin with shields block attacks fairly frequently (at least if your mashing.)

Having them and the Wonda twins (....wow) aggressively track the aggro'd players with their shields would be nice.

The Wonda twins are really slow when it comes to adjusting their shield to face the player. Dragonkin could use a lesson or two in Z-targeting.

I'm not gonna go into details, but basically defensive and evasive mechanics would be kicked up a notch.I actually think the shields are really poorly designed and annoying, not fun to fight. If they didn't make you bounce off or it wasn't so easy to hit them by accident while fighting something else I'd like that idea more.

The Walrus
Sep 3, 2014, 01:12 AM
Let's not change the wonda's ai. The shield is annoying enough without them actually using it well.

EDIT: Derp.

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 01:13 AM
Let's not change the wonda's ai. The shield is annoying enough without them actually using it well.I think he was using them as examples, not saying he wants them to be even more annoying than they are right now.

BubblyBoar
Sep 3, 2014, 01:18 AM
Games are getting easier because more people are gaming. As simple as that. It's not even just designed easier. There's more people and players to collaborate with compared to old-school insane stuff. So instead of figuring it out for yourself, others do it for you. You don't need to test every build and skill for yourself. Others have already dived into it and figured it out for you. Sure, it seems obvious, but how much of the information did you REALLY learn yourself through your own testing? Games can be made difficult, but as long as they can be beaten, they will be deemed easy.

EDIT: I think Wonda shield design is great. It forces the player to attack a mob differently than they do most. And it's a mob the benefits melee class (knuckles) with small range more than ranged classes. As for ranged characters, it requires a different tactic than "Press Q and kill"

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 01:21 AM
Games are getting easier because more people are gaming. As simple as that. It's not even just designed easier. There's more people and players to collaborate with compared to old-school insane stuff. So instead of figuring it out for yourself, others do it for you. You don't need to test every build and skill for yourself. Others have already dived into it and figured it out for you. Sure, it seems obvious, but how much of the information did you REALLY learn yourself through your own testing? Games can be made difficult, but as long as they can be beaten, they will be deemed easy.We're not talking about Metagaming here (at least I'm not). Plenty of games can still be relatively difficult even if you know what to do since pulling it off is half of the battle.

That said I'm not even sure why this turned into a difficuly conversation. You're right, if people can beat it they'll always call it easy. I just want to be able to use the game's mechanics at they're intended to be used. >_>



EDIT: I think Wonda shield design is great. It forces the player to attack a mob differently than they do most. And it's a mob the benefits melee class (knuckles) with small range more than ranged classes. As for ranged characters, it requires a different tactic than "Press Q and kill"The IDEA is cool, but the way it's executed is clunky and annoying.

BubblyBoar
Sep 3, 2014, 01:23 AM
A large sect of gamers find fun in abusing mechanics for unintended but useful results. And designers go with it because it's brilliant. If games were locked to the limited scope of a few designers, they definitely wouldn't be as fun. It's just up to them to make sure players don;t get out of hand with them.

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 01:26 AM
A large sect of gamers find fun in abusing mechanics for unintended but useful results. And designers go with it because it's brilliant. If games were locked to the limited scope of a few designers, they definitely wouldn't be as fun. It's just up to them to make sure players don;t get out of hand with them.Oh, I know. It's just that... you don't have to do anything amazing. Someone looking at the skill trees for 10 minutes can come up with a build that oneshots stuff relatively consistantly. People aren't super tweaking their characters and abusing mechanics to do this stuff.

IndignationSWF
Sep 3, 2014, 01:34 AM
More enemies with the ability to safely rush the player down would make combat more exciting. Hell the Fake Arkers you face are pretty much the ultimate challenge for many players so why not build off of that?

GHNeko
Sep 3, 2014, 01:47 AM
Arks Imposters as a baseline for enemies would be fun haha.

WildarmsRE5
Sep 3, 2014, 02:18 AM
I know, why not make an EQ with Arks Clone as Mobs and spawns unlimitedly ala Dynasty/Orochi/Samurai/Gundam Warriors?

that or an EQ where 12 Falz Hunar shares the same HP pool and all at once they do their ground smash attack, Area only as big as Ruins Boss room.

oh dear, I'm gonna have fun dodging that.

another edit: better yet, have 12 Falz Angel. once their HP reaches the point where they activate the non-directional lasers. . . aw yeah. . . that's like Touhou + PSO2, aw my gad.

Stickboy
Sep 3, 2014, 02:21 AM
costume and character loadings and shits

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 02:22 AM
The only reason people consider arks clones tough is because they have access to player PAs, and even then it's only because things like Rafoie are stupid cheap. Everything else about them is pretty underwhelming, I can't imagine them being a fun challenge in large groups since you'd either be nuked down or abuse their intentionally retarded AI.

If you guys just want human enemies though I could totally go for that.

WildarmsRE5
Sep 3, 2014, 02:25 AM
The only reason people consider arks clones tough is because they have access to player PAs, and even then it's only because things like Rafoie are stupid cheap. Everything else about them is pretty underwhelming, I can't imagine them being a fun challenge in large groups since you'd either be nuked down or abuse their intentionally retarded AI.

If you guys just want human enemies though I could totally go for that.well, I don't remember if I took a screen of my solo attempt at Den, I got WB-ed and nailed by Homing Emission.

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 02:29 AM
well, I don't remember if I took a screen of my solo attempt at Den, I got WB-ed and nailed by Homing Emission.Meant to include skills in that. Like, yeah, WB is pretty bad, but like I said, if there's a lot of them it just comes down to who can burst the other one down first. There's no strategy, you can't avoid most of their attacks effectively because player characters don't have intentionally obvious cues like normal enemies, and the best way to beat them, no matter what class or build they're using is to hit them so much they can't do anything.

IndignationSWF
Sep 3, 2014, 02:29 AM
The only reason people consider arks clones tough is because they have access to player PAs, and even then it's only because things like Rafoie are stupid cheap. Everything else about them is pretty underwhelming, I can't imagine them being a fun challenge in large groups since you'd either be nuked down or abuse their intentionally retarded AI.

If you guys just want human enemies though I could totally go for that.

What I'd love to see from this is a complementary team of Fake Arkers that are built using AI from real players. It'd make for a Pseudo-PVP fight and a real challenge.

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 02:32 AM
What I'd love to see from this is a complementary team of Fake Arkers that are built using AI from real players. It'd make for a Pseudo-PVP fight and a real challenge.I envy your innocence and willingness to dream big.

UnLucky
Sep 3, 2014, 02:33 AM
Shock knocks wondas (and other large annoying enemies) the fuck down without you having to do anything and staggers most enemies often enough that they can't attack. Not to mention it staggers through most enemy's hyper armor. It works on pretty much every normal enemies in the game unlike most status effects which have whole groups of enemies they just straight don't effect. (you can't poison bug or bird darkers for instance).

Chances are you didn't see how effective it is because you were killing things so fast, which is kinda my whole point.
If enemies had a lot more health, Shock still wouldn't be useful since even normal attacks stunlock enemies. It'd just take longer attacking trash that can't hit back.

Like Krahbs. They just turtle up and are super annoying as they sit there doing absolutely nothing while you wail on them for way too long. Although Shock is useful in that case so they take full damage.


I actually think the shields are really poorly designed and annoying, not fun to fight. If they didn't make you bounce off or it wasn't so easy to hit them by accident while fighting something else I'd like that idea more.
They totally put Wondas in the Vol fight specifically to fuck over melee classes trying to be useful.

Ranged characters can just sit back and spam safely with all their attacks landing on their intended target without penalty.

But melee types can't ignore the trash, or else all of their damage will be misdirected or outright nullified with additional time loss tacked on top.

IndignationSWF
Sep 3, 2014, 02:41 AM
I envy your innocence and willingness to dream big.

A Man who does not dream, is one who needs more caffine. xD

I know it's ludicrous, but it'd be nice.

mahavalo
Sep 3, 2014, 02:44 AM
I know, why not make an EQ with Arks Clone as Mobs and spawns unlimitedly ala Dynasty/Orochi/Samurai/Gundam Warriors?

that or an EQ where 12 Falz Hunar shares the same HP pool and all at once they do their ground smash attack, Area only as big as Ruins Boss room.

oh dear, I'm gonna have fun dodging that.

another edit: better yet, have 12 Falz Angel. once their HP reaches the point where they activate the non-directional lasers. . . aw yeah. . . that's like Touhou + PSO2, aw my gad.

Katana Escape would screws that up very hard lulz

Kondibon
Sep 3, 2014, 02:45 AM
If enemies had a lot more health, Shock still wouldn't be useful since even normal attacks stunlock enemies. It'd just take longer attacking trash that can't hit back.

Like Krahbs. They just turtle up and are super annoying as they sit there doing absolutely nothing while you wail on them for way too long. Although Shock is useful in that case so they take full damage.I forgot to clarify that the idea would be to put shock on the ones you aren't fighting, which is usually what I do solo.



They totally put Wondas in the Vol fight specifically to fuck over melee classes trying to be useful.

Ranged characters can just sit back and spam safely with all their attacks landing on their intended target without penalty.

But melee types can't ignore the trash, or else all of their damage will be misdirected or outright nullified with additional time loss tacked on top.I can't tell if you're agreeing with me on this or not.

Achelousaurus
Sep 3, 2014, 03:58 AM
Rush is annoying most of the time cause you can't make a mistake or you instantly get facefloored.

Wonda shield is only annoying if they get close to another enemy you fight, most notably those in the Vol Fight at the end of Amduscia TA.

Other Dragonkin barely get a chance to use their shields even with sloppy spam and even if they do, it's about 1 second off your kill speed.

IMO this game is too much focused on speedkill instead of fun battles, they should be more like DMC 3 :P
The problem is that there is little difference between the enemies/bosses.
outside of Falz/Luther any boss can go down in under a minute and any enemy can be killed in like 2 seconds tops if you have good enough gear and know what you're doing.

It's fun to kill stuff super fast. It is fun to abuse game mechanics.
But ontop of that I want some enemies / bosses that provide a real challenge.
Hell, I'd be fine with challenge simply from numbers, like TD 3 without towers.

I really miss the Endless Nightmare / Phantasmal World (especially 4) and Max Attack quests from PSO 1.
Closest we have now to Max Attack is probably Darkers Den but I hate the map V_V (I really like Abduction though)

Chdata
Sep 3, 2014, 06:35 AM
Did these changes come this maintenace?

Zerex
Sep 3, 2014, 06:37 AM
I know, why not make an EQ with Arks Clone as Mobs and spawns unlimitedly ala Dynasty/Orochi/Samurai/Gundam Warriors?

that or an EQ where 12 Falz Hunar shares the same HP pool and all at once they do their ground smash attack, Area only as big as Ruins Boss room.

oh dear, I'm gonna have fun dodging that.

another edit: better yet, have 12 Falz Angel. once their HP reaches the point where they activate the non-directional lasers. . . aw yeah. . . that's like Touhou + PSO2, aw my gad.

12 Angels aside, 12 Hunars makes absolutely no sense, story wise

WildarmsRE5
Sep 3, 2014, 06:38 AM
travelling back in time makes no sense either but. . . hey Photons!

Z-0
Sep 3, 2014, 06:39 AM
Did these changes come this maintenace?
No, it's in October.

Wish they'd be faster with balance changes. zzzZzZZ

Edson Drake
Sep 3, 2014, 07:40 AM
It would be interesting to have the clones to appear more frequently.

But unfortunately it isn't balanced, while their AI is dumb(as expected), they have a lot of HP along with everything the player has equipped, and since it's an uncommon code you can get OHKO by surprise if you're not alert. So the fights are usually either too hard or too easy.

But hey, as a Ranger at least, WB+Impact Slider and you win.

(I found amusing that I was Namegid'd once by a clone, couldn't believe they can actually use everything)

Sandmind
Sep 3, 2014, 03:37 PM
Off topic, but since we're on the subjet of Wondas:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/E-100alpha/PSO2/Wonda.jpg~original[/SPOILER-BOX]

On topic, I dunno how to feel about all those change, gunner is my secondary character and I actually liked how they played in EP2. Wait and see I guess.

TaigaUC
Sep 3, 2014, 06:04 PM
Well, that explains Guld Mira's price dropping to shit.
I figured they were going to nerf the latent sooner or later.

gigawuts
Sep 3, 2014, 06:06 PM
Well, that explains Guld Mira's price dropping to shit.
I figured they were going to nerf the latent sooner or later.

I'm still confused as to why it took so long.

I guess GU was meant to be the meseta class, and now they have a new meseta class in Bouncer.

Make no mistake: Charge specials still exist, and they're still tied to your weapon, they're just not tied to your weapon's special.

Taurus83
Sep 3, 2014, 08:27 PM
sooner or later Bouncer class will be nerf same way as other class did

hoangsea
Sep 4, 2014, 06:02 AM
sooner or later Bouncer class will be nerf same way as other class did

i don't think so, but i'm sure that jet boots will got buff because it's derp now
bouncer really not a imba thread at the time compare to Ra and Fo and maybe Gu after they fix their buged PA 's damage

btw
who knows later when Bo got new PA ?
maybe they will got OP PA and have to nerf later just like Br :-?

gigawuts
Sep 4, 2014, 08:08 AM
Well, he's not wrong, Bouncer will get a nerf.

It's just going to get a boost first.

But that won't be enough, so it'll be a few months and then it'll get 5-8 boosts at once, including more damage, more damaging/faster/more PP efficient PAs, a boost via a subclass's skilltree addition, and a balancing around having bad gear going hand in hand with a massive surge in the number of good weapons. Oh right and 20 seconds of invulnerability for doing what it already was.

Wait why does this sound familiar.

ShinMaruku
Sep 4, 2014, 04:04 PM
Sounds like http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img661/5333/64773f.gif

Lumpen Thingy
Sep 4, 2014, 04:19 PM
sooner or later Bouncer class will be nerf same way as other class did

why would it get a nerf? every fucking class in this game is OP at this point.

UnLucky
Sep 4, 2014, 06:35 PM
Well, he's not wrong, Bouncer will get a nerf.

It's just going to get a boost first.

But that won't be enough, so it'll be a few months and then it'll get 5-8 boosts at once, including more damage, more damaging/faster/more PP efficient PAs, a boost via a subclass's skilltree addition, and a balancing around having bad gear going hand in hand with a massive surge in the number of good weapons. Oh right and 20 seconds of invulnerability for doing what it already was.

Wait why does this sound familiar.
But only for one weapon which will get all the fixes to complaints made about the other weapon, which only ends up getting +50 T-Atk during a cooldown.