Bouncers have become a blight on this realm

[Zyrusticae]

Or at least, that's what it feels like lately. Seems like 7/10 (if not more) players are either maining or subbing bouncer, and this has resulted in a catastrophic decrease in combat efficiency across the board.

Why, we couldn't even finish a single run of Loser today because we simply had too many people running Bouncer instead of something useful for the fight. And you can forget about seeing rangers with weak bullet on hand!

It's particularly unfortunate as, after so many buffs, all the other classes feel like new classes themselves and are totally worth experimenting with more than Bouncer, but I guess the allure of the new and shiny is too much for people to pass over.

Or maybe I was just playing at a particularly bad time and all the, ahem, more casual players just happened to be playing on the same block as me. I dnno.

Anyway. Am I crazy or is this a thing now?

[Noc Codez]

Nope totally agree with you

[gigawuts]

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[Walkure]

Wave 4 of TD1 this weekend, mobs being pulled around everywhere instead of just being zondeeled and massacred.
"Wow what the fuck I can't do anything on FI now!"
Chase everything around and attack small clusters at a time.
Get >600 points for the wave
"Wow what the fuck nobody else could do anything either!"

PUG life.

[The Walrus]

Isn't this kinda normal when new classes come out?

Just give it another week or two

[BIG OLAF]

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ey flark u buddy

But, I agree, everyone leveling BO right now is putting a severe hindrance on efficiency as far as EQs and the like goes. There's even less Weak Bullet than usual (which I didn't even think was possible), which makes Luther*, for instance, a big fat pain in the tuckus.

But, just wait for a bit until the BO hype dies down and people get back to their normal classes.

*waiting for someone to come in and say 'u need WB 4 Loser? git gud m8'

[XrosBlader821]

Story of my life. But unlike you we at least finished a Luther run :p

[Walkure]

Speaking of Luther, how do people still die to the merry-go-round when you can sanic?

[Z-0]

u need WB 4 loser? git gud m8

Luther sucks without WB though... really annoying since Apos just keeps attacking non-stop and you may not even break the clock without WB at Luther himself. Left some Luther games because they simply aren't going to clear with everyone playing Boots Bouncer with no WB.

[Shadowth117]

Its a new class so of course people want to level it. Nothing wrong with that. Dual Blades in a lot of cases can actually be very good, so long as people are somewhat geared with them.

Jet boots on the other hand, while very cool and fun, really, really suck with their PA's. Yes, they have clear application to hardcore Force players as tech weapons for their utility and usable power, but on Bouncer itself they are mediocre at their very best in comparison to what almost all other classes have available. I personally hope they get more PA's soon and the current ones get a massive buff, but eh.

Eventually of course, all of this is going to settle out. People will go back to generally playing "good" classes. Bouncer with jetboots will probably just become like the episode 2 techer class in that it will have its enthusiasts, but there will still be an okay amount of people playing classes that can actually do things.

[GHNeko]

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[Lostbob117]

While yes new classes are like brand new, the weapons are the same.

[NoiseHERO]

It's a pretty fun class.

Their fun > that EMQ we've already done 200 times.

Like what's already been said, it's not a problem that'll last long, they'll either gitgud or go back to their normal classes within 2 weeks.

[Terrence]

Why, we couldn't even finish a single run of Loser today because we simply had too many people running Bouncer instead of something useful for the fight. And you can forget about seeing rangers with weak bullet on hand!
I fought Dorios/Luther today, there were WB everywere. Many BOuncers indeed (and many who don't even know how to play the Class too) but since I Sub-BOuncer (Main-70) with DB and since I was WBed by the Apostle each turn, I think I did a good work. You just picked the wrong team. I know how you may feel. =/

[ShinMaruku]

I have not play Bouncer. And what were you people expecting? Good loser runs right after a new class was created? Come on now, you should be smarter than that.

[GHNeko]

It's a pretty fun class.

Their fun > that EMQ we've already done 200 times.

Like what's already been said, it's not a problem that'll last long, they'll either gitgud or go back to their normal classes within 2 weeks.

Pretty much this.

And the rate of how fast people build skill also varies.

It really doesnt help that niggas power leveled their BO from like 1 to 50 in a day with COs and shit built up, but dont have actual experience to match.

So they play BO on the skill level of a new player, while playing on a difficulty that requires you to play better to be more effective.

For Skates, there are a good amount of nuances that allow you to play a more effective BO, like being able to charge your gear without casting a spell or bursting away your element, getting used to dodging all the bosses attacks, developing a playstyle and flow with your skates and how to literally bounce all over the place without getting hit and exploiting your DJ to the best of your ability, etc etc.

You dont learn this shit if you just level your class with COs.

[n_n]

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[HeyItsTHK]

My only problem is the visual havoc it wreaks on my eyes. When Bouncers go nuts I CAN'T SEE ANYTHING more so than usual. If there's too many I actually get performance lag.

[Enforcer MKV]

It's a pretty fun class.

Their fun > that EMQ we've already done 200 times.

Like what's already been said, it's not a problem that'll last long, they'll either gitgud or go back to their normal classes within 2 weeks.

Also, this is exactly the same thing that happened when Braver was released. Just be patient and everything with fall in place with time. Nothing to get antsy over.

Also; practically everything GH said.

[SakoHaruo]

not even a week

smh you were almost there :-?

[Drifting Fable]

I kinda wish we went back to the days when we got three new classes released at the same time instead of screwing with class balance by directing everyone into the singular new class.

[Hrith]

That's why I skip all emergencies. Both the problem mentioned and me playing bouncer and not wanting to be a part of said problem.

[SakoHaruo]

That's why I skip all emergencies. Both the problem mentioned and me playing bouncer and not wanting to be a part of said problem.

Hey, don't be skipping out on all that exp! D:<

It's not like Bo can't MPA with the limited tools we have now. The only thing that matters is the skill of the player using the class.

[isCasted]

I must admit, I started doing SH Loser at when I got Bo to lv54... and I get targetted for Apos' WB fairly often. I don't think I am leecher just because of one simple thing: Zanverse. Obviously, you can't have 12 Bouncers use Zanverse at the same time, but in my runs I am usually the only one ever doing it (aside from ocassional Te/Hu's).

As for WB... I am usually running said EQ with people who don't care a lot about Bouncer, but, even when I can't rely on people like that, I frequently see Bo/Ra with flower rifles.

[lostinseganet]

Or at least, that's what it feels like lately. Seems like 7/10 (if not more) players are either maining or subbing bouncer, and this has resulted in a catastrophic decrease in combat efficiency across the board.

Why, we couldn't even finish a single run of Loser today because we simply had too many people running Bouncer instead of something useful for the fight. And you can forget about seeing rangers with weak bullet on hand!

It's particularly unfortunate as, after so many buffs, all the other classes feel like new classes themselves and are totally worth experimenting with more than Bouncer, but I guess the allure of the new and shiny is too much for people to pass over.

Or maybe I was just playing at a particularly bad time and all the, ahem, more casual players just happened to be playing on the same block as me. I dnno.

Anyway. Am I crazy or is this a thing now?
Eps3 just came out people want to try the new content.

[The_Brimada]

I'm almost always Ranger for EQs. If I'm going to level a lower leveled class though I definitely wouldn't do it during Luther or TD. Falz Arms/Elder is a different story though. Had some horrible Despair runs yesterday....ugh.

[Daiyousei]

I'm probably one of the only people who leveled Bouncer without the carry of COs, I only made level 45 today and soloed the SP CO.

[Melodys]

Dual Blade Bo can hold their own in eqs provided they know what they are doing with photon blade fever, using the right PAs (Dispersion, Heavenly and Kestral) and having a light element weapon to take advantage with elemental stance. The hardest EQs (TD, Luther) has a lot of mobs/bosses weak to light. If anything, I find that they even have it better of attracting aggro and breaking Goldra parts in TD out of all melee classes with Dispersion than any of FI's and Br's arsenal (excluding war cry). A lot of JP pugs have switched to Bo/Hu already.

Jet boots T-atk focused Bo is a mess however. Their PAs are not meant for bossing despite what some might claim. It also doesn't help Sega claimed that Bo/Te is a good sub pre ep-3 and a lot of people are 'trying' it. Support or too heavily tank-focused are still useless if you can't kill or do respectable damage yourself. Its partially why the EQ runs have been slower.

[GHNeko]

I'm probably one of the only people who leveled Bouncer without the carry of COs, I only made level 45 today and soloed the SP CO.

I leveled my BO from 1 to 54 without being carried by COs.

40s were a pain...as usual.


Jet boots T-atk focused Bo is a mess however. Their PAs are not meant for bossing despite what some might claim. It also doesn't help Sega claimed that Bo/Te is a good sub pre ep-3 and a lot of people are 'trying' it. Support or too heavily tank-focused are still useless if you can't kill or do respectable damage yourself. Its partially why the EQ runs have been slower.

idk man.

Gran Wave is pretty damn good at bossing because it's a homing PA (homing onto weak spots hnnng) that does a lot of single target damage in a short period of time, while its shift action allows you to escape while gaining high in which you can float around to your leisure, shooting techs of your choice at the boss, while usually being out of its attack range because every non EP3 were not designed to deal with characters that are able to dance above their heads.

And with Deband PP and Element PP field, getting back PP isnt hard either.

[Mesarthim]

Jet boots T-atk focused Bo is a mess however. Their PAs are not meant for bossing despite what some might claim. It also doesn't help Sega claimed that Bo/Te is a good sub pre ep-3 and a lot of people are 'trying' it. Support or too heavily tank-focused are still useless if you can't kill or do respectable damage yourself. Its partially why the EQ runs have been slower.

I am one such person doing that "test" of Bo/Te and though I can kill okay for mobs I feel... quite underwhelming in other departments and am slightly disappointed with jetboots. I'd kill bosses much more effectively with something other than a Tatk-based jetboot build.

Doesn't help that we get all of three PAs either while DB's get six.

[GHNeko]

BOFO Photon Flare Build says Hi.

Granted it's silly, but still.

Also, I dont think you're just supposed to ONLY use PAs for melee when jet boots.

That's why you can add techs to its palette.

Having an AoE tech like Gifoie, or Rabarta, or IRUMEGIDO, or Nagrants or Ragrants or something that can linger while your kicking shit in the chin.

Like has anyone seen the dps on Concentrated Ragrants followed up by jet boots attacks?

[The Walrus]

How does it compare to Dual Blade dps?

[GHNeko]

Not gonna kick it from its throne from what I've seen, but it's fairly good either way. Enough that you dont have to feel like you're being carried in damage department.

No video footage because toaster, but if you have concentrated Ragrants, give it a shot.

The point is that Jet Boots has ways to get good DPS.

[The Walrus]

Well yeah I get the point. I was just asking since I have no tech stuff whatsoever (haven't played Force in a year, probably never again cause too lazy to rainbow set and loltecher) to really use in order make a comparison myself and I figured why not compare to the other weapon.

[BubblyBoar]

With everyone derping around on bouncer the first few days, SH EQs were actually going nicely, even during ENG primetime. Once the Bo's caught up though.....ouch. I'm just waiting for time to pass for everyone to go back to their main classes. I'm been having fun on my Fo tho, since I have more DEEPS options than before. Ragrants too fun.

[GHNeko]

Ragrants is INSANE.

It's so good.

Kicking Rapid fire lasers man.

[GALEFORCE]

Ragrants is good, but boot PAs with element matching are stronger. I don't see how using ragrants improves DPS. I do, however, enjoy kicking lasers.

The only tech I could see improving DPS by any significant margin is ramegid on poison-able parts, and I guess the ever broken zondeel.

[BubblyBoar]

I'm Fo/Te, so I don't have boots. In Ep 2, using light techs was just..... :/ But now I have Ragrants and it's just a monster of a tech. Working on crafting a nice disc for it.

[GHNeko]

Ragrants is good, but boot PAs with element matching are stronger. I don't see how using ragrants improves DPS. I do, however, enjoy kicking lasers.

The only tech I could see improving DPS by any significant margin is ramegid on poison-able parts, and I guess the ever broken zondeel.

Here is how I see it.

Because Ragrants charges fast and lingers for around 120frames.

But the actually shooting of the animation and going back to neutral doesn't last as long. Maybe around 40 frames? So you should have around a second a half to actually attack with a PA of your choice. Being able to keep your offensive techs lingering is the name of the game here.

For example; Shoot Ragrants, Gran Wave mid-ragrants, shift, JA Ragrants, repeat.

This is not a tactic exclusive to Ragrants. Gifoie is another lingering tech with refreshing hitboxes that occurs over a period of time. Rabarta is another. The list goes on.

Because these techs linger with refreshing hitboxes, you can attack with PAs or Normals while these techs do their thing; all the while having matching element on your boots.

And because Boots are Tatk based, by having a high Tatk, your techs will do good damage.

It's definitely better than using 2 moment gales back to back for example; as long as your techs can be charged and fired off quickly.

Granted, if you're an Satk BO that leaves Tatk in the dust, this is not a viable strategy for you.

[Zyrusticae]

I really shouldn't be getting top aggro as a 57/62 Te/Fo with a crappy 10* wand, crappy affixes, a mag that isn't even full T-Atk, and unupgraded vanilla wind techs. That just... it shouldn't be happening!


That's why I skip all emergencies. Both the problem mentioned and me playing bouncer and not wanting to be a part of said problem.
Would be nice if more players did this.

I know there's a lot of appeal in the new and shiny, but really, at least have the common courtesy to not play like garbage during the harder EMQs. If you know for a fact you're just going to bring the rest of the group down, it's time to switch classes!

[GHNeko]

I really shouldn't be getting top aggro as a 57/62 Te/Fo with a crappy 10* wand, crappy affixes, a mag that isn't even full T-Atk, and unupgraded vanilla wind techs. That just... it shouldn't be happening!


Would be nice if more players did this.

I know there's a lot of appeal in the new and shiny, but really, at least have the common courtesy to not play like garbage during the harder EMQs. If you know for a fact you're just going to bring the rest of the group down, it's time to switch classes!

Were you using Zanverse in the midst of your fellow players?

Because if you were, that would explain why you were catching aggro haha.

[Tankotron]

Of course everyone is playing Bouncer. A lot of people got 7 70s so naturally they're gonna play the new class. Expecting anything else especially in N-VH blocks is silly.
Even with 12 Bouncers I still usually get S rank TD2s and TD3s. Maybe get better?

[jcart953]

I really shouldn't be getting top aggro as a 57/62 Te/Fo with a crappy 10* wand, crappy affixes, a mag that isn't even full T-Atk, and unupgraded vanilla wind techs. That just... it shouldn't be happening!


Would be nice if more players did this.


And your complaining about bouncers and bad Mpa's...

[Kondibon]

That's why I skip all emergencies. Both the problem mentioned and me playing bouncer and not wanting to be a part of said problem.I'm glad I'm not the only one. Not that I do it because of BO...


Hey, don't be skipping out on all that exp! D:<

It's not like Bo can't MPA with the limited tools we have now. The only thing that matters is the skill of the player using the class.Playing underleveled on a new class with a mediocre skill tree makes you a liability to anyone who wants to play seriously. While I don't agree EQs have to be srsbsns I don't think it's fair to force oneself into them just for exp if it's to the detriment of other people's enjoyment of the game.

[trentjosh]

what do you expect when there is a new class of course most people are going to try it i believe its like this in any video game ever it is annoying but not even slightly surprising

[Kikikiki]

Playing underleveled on a new class with a mediocre skill tree makes you a liability to anyone who wants to play seriously. While I don't agree EQs have to be srsbsns I don't think it's fair to force oneself into them just for exp if it's to the detriment of other people's enjoyment of the game.

B-But D-Dual Blades BO is still a major assessment in EQs because Zondeel + AoE D:

Seriously though Zondeel + Dispersion Shrike just melts everything even at Lv57. Provided your HU sub is Lv70.

[GHNeko]

what do you expect when there is a new class of course most people are going to try it i believe its like this in any video game ever it is annoying but not even slightly surprising

Game Ethics lol.

with no baseline and no clear goal in the game outside of what a player sets for themselves; imposing/not imposing on anyone's fun is like just something that is stupid hard not to do.

Its more so defined in PSO2 because its an instance based game.

literally anything goes unless you set level restrictions, but even that is horribly broad.

[GALEFORCE]

Here is how I see it.

Because Ragrants charges fast and lingers for around 120frames.

But the actually shooting of the animation and going back to neutral doesn't last as long. Maybe around 40 frames? So you should have around a second a half to actually attack with a PA of your choice. Being able to keep your offensive techs lingering is the name of the game here.

For example; Shoot Ragrants, Gran Wave mid-ragrants, shift, JA Ragrants, repeat.

This is not a tactic exclusive to Ragrants. Gifoie is another lingering tech with refreshing hitboxes that occurs over a period of time. Rabarta is another. The list goes on.

Because these techs linger with refreshing hitboxes, you can attack with PAs or Normals while these techs do their thing; all the while having matching element on your boots.

And because Boots are Tatk based, by having a high Tatk, your techs will do good damage.

It's definitely better than using 2 moment gales back to back for example; as long as your techs can be charged and fired off quickly.

Granted, if you're an Satk BO that leaves Tatk in the dust, this is not a viable strategy for you.

Well, by that logic, you would be better off spamming techs non-stop, since re-casting a tech doesn't make the previous tech effect disappear. Also, if one use of moment gale kills anyway (more or less my experience for most enemies on sh), there's not too much point to using a gifoie or whatever before it. Not to say there's no time where offensive techs are useful, but I'm just not seeing the DPS improvement.

I do like to work in techs when I'm using bo/fi though. It's really easy to get that tech JA combo bonus since you can walk around with a tech charge.


I'm glad I'm not the only one. Not that I do it because of BO...

Playing underleveled on a new class with a mediocre skill tree makes you a liability to anyone who wants to play seriously. While I don't agree EQs have to be srsbsns I don't think it's fair to force oneself into them just for exp if it's to the detriment of other people's enjoyment of the game.

Let's face it, no one plays n/h/vh EQs seriously. It's all to level their classes, and most likely it's gonna be all bouncers. It's not like the lower difficulties are even difficult anymore. By SH, bouncer can contribute just fine to successful runs if you've invested enough in your gear, which doesn't even take all that much.

[trentjosh]

i guess it only really bothers me on SH EQ's on anything under then SH my expectations are alwalys low since i expect most people leveling at the lower levels isnt going to understand their class or be as geared as someone on SH

[Kondibon]

B-But D-Dual Blades BO is still a major assessment in EQs because Zondeel + AoE D:

Seriously though Zondeel + Dispersion Shrike just melts everything even at Lv57. Provided your HU sub is Lv70.I was just playing devil's advocate. I don't actually think BO is as bad as people say. That said, being underleveled and undergeared is bad enough without throwing in a new class that people may not even be completely acclimated to yet.

Also people want their WB.

[GHNeko]

Well, by that logic, you would be better off spamming techs non-stop, since re-casting a tech doesn't make the previous tech effect disappear. Also, if one use of moment gale kills anyway (more or less my experience for most enemies on sh), there's not too much point to using a gifoie or whatever before it. Not to say there's no time where offensive techs are useful, but I'm just not seeing the DPS improvement.

I do like to work in techs when I'm using bo/fi though. It's really easy to get that tech JA combo bonus since you can walk around with a tech charge.

Not really by that logic.

My post implies that having a tech + PA damage side by side > tech + tech or PA+PA because of damage:duration ratio.

It's just conjecture atm.

Once I stop owning a toaster, I'll do recordings and study what I'm talking about to see if its true or not.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I was just playing devil's advocate. I don't actually think BO is as bad as people say. That said, being underleveled and undergeared is bad enough without throwing in a new class that people may not even be completely acclimated to yet.

DB Bo/Hu is perfectly fine if you have the support for it. I'd actually imagine having a harder time on the new planet as a katana braver compared to BO. Started doing SH when I hit 50 for the sake of COs, but having a 175 s atk mag, 70 Hu sub, and 345 s atk from my units pretty much made my BO's level not matter at that point.

[GALEFORCE]

Well, there's a lot of factors at play. I can't check my damage right now 'cause maint, but there's an opportunity cost involved with casting techs. Both the charge time and the loss of PP. You'll be doing more DPS in the short time-frame where ragrants damage and gran wave damage overlap, but your ragrants does around half (?) of gran wave while costing the same amount of PP.

I could see it being useful for PP dumping on a weak point that's only available for a short window, provided you have a tech strong enough to warrant its use and the charge time isn't the standard 1s.

[GHNeko]

Well that's why you pick techs that can linger and/or be crafted for to better suit the idea. Shorter charge times, extra hits, less PP, etc.

This is also why you have element PP field and deband PP. A single normal will regenerate a good amount of PP.

Again, it's all conjecture atm.

[ReverseSeraf]

Just echoing what most people have said, but Bouncer just came out.

That being said, I don't get irritated as much: they're still trying to figure out what's effective in dealing with Falz Luther + Apos Dorios, since the dodging for Jet Boots is a bit wonky (or that's how it was for me at least). Can't say much about Dual Blades. So does it take time? Yes.

And don't tell me they can just practice in N/H/VH. The attack patterns are much different, and speed plays a huge difference.

[Zyrusticae]

And your complaining about bouncers and bad Mpa's...
I at least provide other players the courtesy of constant buff uptime, which is more than I can say for all the Bouncers that are just... well, bouncing around.

That aside, my gear is something I am working on, and I only point it out to note that loads of other players are doing even worse than me! I can't even tell you how many players I've seen running unit sets with not even a single attack soul affixed, let alone the 4s stuff that seems to be standard nowadays.

Were you using Zanverse in the midst of your fellow players?

Because if you were, that would explain why you were catching aggro haha.
...You know, I totally forgot that technique existed. I feel terrible about this now.

I will hang my head in shame in penance.

[GHNeko]

Zyru pls.

How could you forget about the best Tech of them all?

[Natsu Nem]

Elysion/Sazan16?

[GHNeko]

Of which Zanverse makes it Stronger!

Zanverse wins!

[starwind75043]

LOL the other day 5 mins before loser spawned i stopped and changed to techer so I would be sure some one would be able to mirage him so we could break his chest. I guess we have to deal with this till at least everyone is at a decent lvl

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

LOL the other day 5 mins before loser spawned i stopped and changed to techer so I would be sure some one would be able to mirage him so we could break his chest. I guess we have to deal with this till at least everyone is at a decent lvl

You know BOs can use techs, right? It's really on bad players and not the class at that point.

[IndignationSWF]

I ran Loser earlier as BO with my BR as my sub, and I'm not seeing the issue here.
-I can cast Wind Techs for Mirage.
-I've got heals and buffs on my bar if the team needed more support.
-I do mid-high damage with both weapon types.
-I have more evasive options than most any other class because of the height Jet Boots net.

Outside of people not knowing what to do with the class, what's with all the hate? Oversaturation maybe?

[starwind75043]

You know BOs can use techs, right? It's really on bad players and not the class at that point.



I am going Bo/HU for the most part. Haven't played enough with my jet boot tree to feel ok with it so better safe then sorry

[Kondibon]

Outside of people not knowing what to do with the class, what's with all the hate? Oversaturation maybe?Those are pretty much the only real reasons right now. >_>

[Gama]

Elder -> main class
Loser - > main class
TD1 2 3 - > main class

everything else? - > wichever other class im leveling.

[Shiyo]

Outside of people not knowing what to do with the class, what's with all the hate? Oversaturation maybe?
The hate is that BO doesn't bring weak bullet.

As seen here:


. And you can forget about seeing rangers with weak bullet on hand!

[Hrith]

Hey, don't be skipping out on all that exp! D:<

It's not like Bo can't MPA with the limited tools we have now. The only thing that matters is the skill of the player using the class.It's not like emergencies give that much experience; that idea mostly comes from the fact that people use tickets during them.
I also hate most emergencies, so I do not feel like I'm missing much.

[Zyrusticae]

-I do mid-high damage with both weapon types
Either you're lying, or all those players are doing something VERY wrong (which is a possibility I won't discount). Either way, the current situation is not pretty.

[IndignationSWF]

The hate is that BO doesn't bring weak bullet.

As seen here:

Weak Bullet's good, yet having a melee class able to exploit enemy weaknesses almost universally is good too in my eyes.

They made Bouncer into an insanely versatile class for people who know how the game works and can exploit the mechanics, but on the other hand they made it more 'fun' than most of the other classes to newer or casual players who just see the flashy attacks and want to emulate them. I don't know how one would go about fixing that though short of nerfing the class into an almost useless state.

Should there be more diversity? Of course, the game is made for team play after all.


Either you're lying, or all those players are doing something VERY wrong (which is a possibility I won't discount). Either way, the current situation is not pretty.
Having a high level braver sub and a maxed mag with stats balanced in Tech and Strike helps I'll admit, but I can typically tear through most VH bosses with little trouble. Now when it comes to SH, I can't say yet so I'll get back to you when I get to that point most likely tomorrow. Certain Rotations are naturally exploitative, you just have to find what works for you I guess. *shrugs*

[Kondibon]

Weak Bullet's good, yet having a melee class able to exploit enemy weaknesses almost universally is good too in my eyes.

They made Bouncer into an insanely versatile class for people who know how the game works and can exploit the mechanics, but on the other hand they made it more 'fun' than most of the other classes to newer or casual players who just see the flashy attacks and want to emulate them. I don't know how one would go about fixing that though short of nerfing the class into an almost useless state.

Should there be more diversity? Of course, the game is made for team play after all.It's not like bouncer is a bad class or anything, but there's not much in the game that makes up for 255% damage for everyone in the MPA. People want well rounded MPAs for stuff like TD, not full runs of a single class.

It's like when braver came out, and everyone was playing braver and people thought the class sucked because of Sturgeon's Law.

[IndignationSWF]

It's not like bouncer is a bad class or anything, but there's not much in the game that makes up for 255% damage for everyone in the MPA. People want well rounded MPAs for stuff like TD, not full runs of a single class.

It's like when braver came out, and everyone was playing braver and people thought the class sucked because of Sturgeon's Law.

It's the same for every MMO. Everyone wants the new hotness. It just so happens that this time, it's so damned user-friendly at the start that it kind of pushes you into it.

You should not be able to kill enemies 18-20 levels higher than you like you were walking through a field of wheat. And that's partially the problem with the skill aspect. It doesn't take much skill to kill stuff wholesale early on at all, thus no one bothers to learn it's in's and outs.

[Kondibon]

You should not be able to kill enemies 18-20 levels higher than you like you were walking through a field of wheat. And that's partially the problem with the skill aspect. It doesn't take much skill to kill stuff wholesale early on at all, thus no one bothers to learn it's in's and outs.
Indeed. They should have rebalanced earlier content to take into account subclassing and extended gear. Or increase the requirements on extended stuff, it's better than any rare you can use with the same requirements even with the damage variance, and the units make you immortal until you're doing VH way underleveled.

[IndignationSWF]

Indeed. They should have rebalanced earlier content to take into account subclassing and extended gear. Or increase the requirements on extended stuff, it's better than any rare you can use with the same requirements even with the damage variance, and the units make you immortal until you're doing VH way underleveled.

Mhm. I did a test by going into VH Naberius Marathon 2 as soon as I hit 40(unlocked on my BR previously) after demolishing it on Hard only to nearly get my ass handed to me even with extended gear and plenty of buffs and heals. Makes me wonder if it was even tested below VH.

Also, something I need to address: People that are running shops, for the love of god stop gouging on BO equipment if you want decent runs with them. No 7 star sword should be 500+k when it's not grinded/affixed/extended/etc... It's rediculous.

[Fallast]

Either you're lying, or all those players are doing something VERY wrong (which is a possibility I won't discount). Either way, the current situation is not pretty.

I'm running around as a now 65 BO/70 HU, and from the moment I hit 55 to be able to do TD3 I managed to come in at least 6th place at a minimum, averaging 4th place overall with minor crystal collecting.

Loser and apo dorio are fun, if not a joke due to sabers being able to dodge most everything they do with ease, and gap close to catch up during any teleport.

Utility wise I'm using a pair of life steal chance T sabers, with maxed heal share and heal boost, so just being around other people I'm constantly healing them for anywhere from 80-200. That's on top of resta, zondeel, zanverse and the ability to inflict status for fights like Loser.

If there's only two things I see saber BO's doing that bother me, I'ts spamming kestrel rampage (which is good, I use it myself, but is not an end all be all), from sometimes SO far away you'd assume it's only a ranged attack, and never using gear properly. Seriously, photon blade damage is great, their pp regen boost is great, chaining them into combos is great, and nobody else I see does it.

Could be I pick things up fast, or it could be nobody wants to bother experimenting, either way BO as a whole is a great class, not FI tier for damage, but a great class all the same.

[Daiyousei]

Mhm. I did a test by going into VH Naberius Marathon 2 as soon as I hit 40(unlocked on my BR previously) after demolishing it on Hard only to nearly get my ass handed to me even with extended gear and plenty of buffs and heals. Makes me wonder if it was even tested below VH.

Also, something I need to address: People that are running shops, for the love of god stop gouging on BO equipment if you want decent runs with them. No 7 star sword should be 500+k when it's not grinded/affixed/extended/etc... It's rediculous.

On the topic of testing below VH, it'll be quite a problem for players who are just starting out. (relatively small population I know but still they're there) I still have friends joining the game at a slow rate, some even planned to join at Episode 3's release. They don't have subclasses, all they have is their one class until level 20 then they can get a subclass. It'll be too hard for them to start out.

Also I agree with the price gouging, it's keeping players from willingly buying equipment, I used 2 star matter board boots until VH, when I finally invested in a nice pair of 10 star boots. I never found a single 7-9* Bouncer weapon in the time I played from level 1 to level 40.

[GHNeko]

Indeed. They should have rebalanced earlier content to take into account subclassing and extended gear. Or increase the requirements on extended stuff, it's better than any rare you can use with the same requirements even with the damage variance, and the units make you immortal until you're doing VH way underleveled.

The requirements for crafted gear already are insane in the high ExLvs.

They're easiest to use when their exlv is low.

Plus support items exist too x_x;

though I kinda agree with you. extended weapons should be more useful end levels and harder earlier levels.

[Rien]

Mhm. I did a test by going into VH Naberius Marathon 2 as soon as I hit 40(unlocked on my BR previously) after demolishing it on Hard only to nearly get my ass handed to me even with extended gear and plenty of buffs and heals. Makes me wonder if it was even tested below VH.

Also, something I need to address: People that are running shops, for the love of god stop gouging on BO equipment if you want decent runs with them. No 7 star sword should be 500+k when it's not grinded/affixed/extended/etc... It's rediculous.

Jet boots have this problem to a lesser degree.

I'm not regretting investing into a Star Sanis (http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B5%E3% 83%8B%E3%82%B9) for it's life drain on chance latent and running SH with it.

[IndignationSWF]

On the topic of testing below VH, it'll be quite a problem for players who are just starting out. (relatively small population I know but still they're there) I still have friends joining the game at a slow rate, some even planned to join at Episode 3's release. They don't have subclasses, all they have is their one class until level 20 then they can get a subclass. It'll be too hard for them to start out.

Also I agree with the price gouging, it's keeping players from willingly buying equipment, I used 2 star matter board boots until VH, when I finally invested in a nice pair of 10 star boots. I never found a single 7-9* Bouncer weapon in the time I played from level 1 to level 40.
Yeah, it's not going to teach them much either for obvious reasons so they could keep struggling until someone decides to correct them rather than just ignore/insult them.

Honestly I'd suggest better class based tutorials.

[UnLucky]

Not really by that logic.

My post implies that having a tech + PA damage side by side > tech + tech or PA+PA because of damage:duration ratio.

It's just conjecture atm.

Once I stop owning a toaster, I'll do recordings and study what I'm talking about to see if its true or not.

But if a tech is worth casting due to damage:PP or damage:time being better than a PA, then why use the PA?

Use whichever one does more damage in less time or less PP twice instead of the better one only once followed by something worse.

[GALEFORCE]

Jet boots have this problem to a lesser degree.

I'm not regretting investing into a Star Sanis (http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B5%E3% 83%8B%E3%82%B9) for it's life drain on chance latent and running SH with it.

Star Sanice 4 lyfe. They'd have to come out with something incredible to replace those boots for me. It helps that every boot PA has super armor, making it beneficial to just tank hits at times.

[GHNeko]

But if a tech is worth casting due to damage:PP or damage:time being better than a PA, then why use the PA?

Use whichever one does more damage in less time or less PP twice instead of the better one only once followed by something worse.

Well there are probably times this is the case, but other times where having a tech follow by a PA is a good choice as well, is what I'm saying.

I think.

Ugh I'm terrible with wording.

[IndignationSWF]

Well there are probably times this is the case, but other times where having a tech follow by a PA is a good choice as well, is what I'm saying.

I think.

Ugh I'm terrible with wording.

It's a valid strategy in the right situations.

Ilmegid followed by Gran Wave is a pretty vicious combo against a single large target, especially when you have the PP for a follow up PA.

Another good one I've found against a tight group of small enemies is Razan followed by Moment Gale and it's Shift follow up(a free 2-5k damage).

[Kondibon]

I tend to stick with using techs if I'm too far away and don't want to, or see a need to, get closer, for staggering enemies around me so I don't get hit while trying to use PAs, or the obvious changing elements.

They're also good for hitting specific parts of an enemy while using boots since a lot of boot attacks have huge hit boxes that hit whatever the fuck they want. Otherwise I stick with PAs.

[GHNeko]

It's a valid strategy in the right situations.

Ilmegid followed by Gran Wave is a pretty vicious combo against a single large target, especially when you have the PP for a follow up PA.

Another good one I've found against a tight group of small enemies is Razan followed by Moment Gale and it's Shift follow up(a free 2-5k damage).

Yeah. It's fair to say that it's not going to be the best idea in all situations, but being able to increase your damage in a short period of time by having techs go off on enemies while doing PAs is a legit strat.

Like having Gifoie attack all 4 legs of a Banther, while controlling the Fangulfur/Gulfur mobs while you gran wave it's face is good and youre dealing a lot of damage overall. Youre hitting the banther multiple times with Gifoie and moment gale, but in less time than 2 moment gales while being able to operate in neutral more often.

Having Ragrants hit 2-3 parts of Shrayda's parts (like both arms or multiple cannons) while you moment gale its arms, I feel does comparable or more damage than 2 RAgrants, and is faster than 2 moment gales.

It's all basically PP Dumping, but BO builds PP super fast.

[Scarlet-Star]

We shouldn't be ridiculed or hated just because we want to enjoy a Class we like though. What if we are really enjoying BO? What? us being such a "hindrance" to you means we shouldn't play it then?

Or am I misunderstanding something? Because we deserve respect, and we are not as bad or useless as people keep claiming us to be.

[Sacrificial]

It was the first week what did you expect? Bo is pretty much a rich mans class. ->rainbows. a real min-max class, there is no in between.

And bo is not that weak. Last weak I carried td's as an underleveled +-50 bouncer. Sure, I had spend money on gear, first thing i did was craft a dualblade to EX17.

[TaigaUC]

I don't really think people should be taking 70/1 Bo sub to stuff like TD3 and Luther.
They end up being suck. They'd probably get lots more exp by doing normal difficulty or client orders.

I don't have premium and I hit 40 within a day.
Another friend without premium hit 36 on a new character.
Neither of us did VH or SH stuff.

Current Bouncer is kinda like Braver initially was.
Lacking PAs and good equip.

[Vintasticvin]

You know you guys could maybe form your own parties and kick out players that have Bouncer as either spec that joins your parties.....

[Scarlet-Star]

You know you guys could maybe form your own parties and kick out players that have Bouncer as either spec that joins your parties.....

Then they wouldn't be able to show how much unnecessary hate they have for BOs, ya know?

[Daiyousei]

generally if they have any class level 1 as sub, their intentions are leeching, give main BOs a chance, and or BOs that are at least level 50.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

Actually... not really. My recent TD runs have worked out okay. Hell, VH TD3 was pretty tame and those are normally hell. Then again, increased run speed makes defending towers and collecting crystals easier.

[FerrickX]

As much as i want to deny that interjection, the last TD3s i did all resulted in failures because there were just too many buffoons (bouncers) around who were way too focused with dpsing and not dodging, in the end of wave 6, 7/12 were dead on the ground because of the darker infected ship and the towers destroyed

[Vintasticvin]

Then they wouldn't be able to show how much unnecessary hate they have for BOs, ya know?

Weeell either stop bitching and moaning about or welcome them.

[oratank]

td 3 is all about ais management only w1,2 you have to worry about very low lv mpa. if mpa suck at ais td3 will fall even they are high lv .

[Scarlet-Star]

Weeell either stop bitching and moaning about or welcome them.

You and I both know that's not possible for them.

[SodaJunky]

A shame to hear. I am loving how fun Bouncer class is, but to see the other classes shunned is no good. I'm equally enjoying the changes to Ranger and Gunner class. I agree that it feels fresh.

[Vintasticvin]

You and I both know that's not possible for them.

I actually welcome all Bouncers and classes until they flip my hostile switch and besides in a few weeks Bouncer fever is ginna die off just like braver did.

[Sacrificial]

As much as i want to deny that interjection, the last TD3s i did all resulted in failures because there were just too many buffoons (bouncers) around who were way too focused with dpsing and not dodging, in the end of wave 6, 7/12 were dead on the ground because of the darker infected ship and the towers destroyed

Its the AIS job to counter ships, any class has trouble with getting ships. Even a wb ra ir a force need to use valueble time to get them. If a ship stays longer than a minute it means your ais user that wave failed.

[Reyva]

Dem bootz..........they can't get enuff of em. So fascinated by da rolla blades that everything else doesn't matter :-?. Reminds me of dem noobz in PSU when new PAs came out such as Tornado dance spamming that all the time. At least we booted them if they continued to spam em haha.

Also, I thought everyone and their mom was lvl 70 BO already. When I logged in first day when this came out, ppl were already high leveled. Ofcourse, I'm exaggerating here on purpose.

Just a fad, like every other game. When new toon comes out in Vindictus, everyone and their mom does the same thing. Only difference is ppl won't let that newb character in their party unless they meet the requirements lol. After bout a couple weeks, it goes back to normal.

[NoiseHERO]

^

Yes.

Everyone gtfaway from jetboots so I can be the only jetboot user plx.

[Shiyo]

As much as i want to deny that interjection, the last TD3s i did all resulted in failures because there were just too many buffoons (bouncers) around who were way too focused with dpsing and not dodging, in the end of wave 6, 7/12 were dead on the ground because of the darker infected ship and the towers destroyed

BO is the most mobile agile class in the game, kind of weird how people can't dodge on it when it's so easy to iframe everything.

[Mysterious-G]

I've had a spectaculary smooth TD3 run with nine out of twelve people being Bouncers before. That was the one and only time, but it was enough to make me realize that the class itself is actually quite nice for the quest. I want to say that by now there was enough time to get familar with the Bouncer class and learn how to utilize it effectively, so chances are that if you get a stinker, the same people would have made you fail just as badly by playing any other class.

I do, however, completely loath running into a Bouncer parade during my Luther run. It's simply awful. And I will say, if at least half of the Bouncers were aware that their class does not consist of just one weapon, but two, it might not be so bad. Break Stance is actually a blessing on his clock.

[Shinamori]

It's gonna be band until most of everyone maining or subbing bouncer is lv70.

[Shiyo]

I've had a spectaculary smooth TD3 run with nine out of twelve people being Bouncers before. That was the one and only time, but it was enough to make me realize that the class itself is actually quite nice for the quest. I want to say that by now there was enough time to get familar with the Bouncer class and learn how to utilize it effectively, so chances are that if you get a stinker, the same people would have made you fail just as badly by playing any other class.

I do, however, completely loath running into a Bouncer parade during my Luther run. It's simply awful. And I will say, if at least half of the Bouncers were aware that their class does not consist of just one weapon, but two, it might not be so bad. Break Stance is actually a blessing on his clock.
Break stance is 10% damage for 20 points, worthless.

You can also only use 1 weapon just fine on BO, what's the problem?

[Mysterious-G]

Break stance is 10% damage for 20 points, worthless.

You can also only use 1 weapon just fine on BO, what's the problem?

Thought it amounted to 45% in total? Else my mistake.
As for the latter question, it simply seems like most Bouncers are hell-bent on using their Jetboots on Luther, when from a dps standpoint, the Dual Blades would be infinitely better. I don't really need to receive ten Shifta buffs in the span of 3 seconds.

[Terrence]

I do, however, completely loath running into a Bouncer parade during my Luther run. It's simply awful. And I will say, if at least half of the Bouncers were aware that their class does not consist of just one weapon, but two, it might not be so bad. Break Stance is actually a blessing on his clock.
Spitting on a Class then praise it straight after... -_-" I play FIghter/BOuncer with DB only and my SH Luther runs are not awful like yours since I never die, I Mirage his clock, ... If your runs are miserable, ask yourself the good questions instead of blaming BO.

[Mysterious-G]

Spitting on a Class then praise it straight after... -_-" I play FIghter/BOuncer with DB only and my SH Luther runs are not awful like yours since I never die, I Mirage his clock, ... If your runs are miserable, ask yourself the good questions instead of blaming BO.

I don't see the relation of your post to mine. I can praise a class for being good at one thing, but less so at another, and whether you do a good job at Luther or not is not relevant to the general performance of the people currently playing the class. I even clarified that if more Bouncers were to step away from using the Jetboots for Luther and use the dual blades instead, my grievance about Bouncer mpas in regard to that particular quest would be non-existant.

[Shiyo]

I don't see the relation of your post to mine. I can praise a class for being good at one thing, but less so at another, and whether you do a good job at Luther or not is not relevant to the general performance of the people currently playing the class. I even clarified that if more Bouncers were to step away from using the Jetboots for Luther and use the dual blades instead, my grievance about Bouncer mpas in regard to that particular quest would be non-existant.

You should probably ignore that guy he just flames people for no reason in every post he makes.

[Shinamori]

In regards to Luther, it doesn't matter if it's Bouncer of Hunters. If the majority of the playerbase brings a low level character to get that 100K EXP, then your battle is gonna last longer than 10Mins.

[NexusAZ]

Thought it amounted to 45% in total? Else my mistake.
As for the latter question, it simply seems like most Bouncers are hell-bent on using their Jetboots on Luther, when from a dps standpoint, the Dual Blades would be infinitely better. I don't really need to receive ten Shifta buffs in the span of 3 seconds.

48% boost technically, but yeah, it's way more than 10%.

[Shiyo]

48% boost technically, but yeah, it's way more than 10%.

Elemental stance also isn't 30%, but I'm comparing 30% to 40%.

The point is break stance is absolute trash.

[Dugs]

No I think the point here is you're making no sense, what are you even talking about?

[NexusAZ]

Elemental stance also isn't 30%, but I'm comparing 30% to 40%.

The point is break stance is absolute trash.

Except it's not. Is it super amazing? Not at all, but it's certainly still viable.

For Jet Boots, Elemental is great.

For DBs, you're pretty much forced to have a rainbow palette to make use of it all the time. Even with a rainbow palette, you'll likely still use Break Stance if you have access to it against almost every boss in the game. As of right now, a rainbow set made up of decent DBs is quite expensive. Not everybody has that kind of money to throw around. While there are only a small number of them outside of Shironia, it's always possible SEGA will continue with the trend and add more mobs with breakable parts in the future.

Edit: It's also entirely possible that SEGA will tweak things for Break Stance as well.

[Shiyo]

Except it's not. Is it super amazing? Not at all, but it's certainly still viable.

For Jet Boots, Elemental is great.

For DBs, you're pretty much forced to have a rainbow palette to make use of it all the time. Even with a rainbow palette, you'll likely still use Break Stance if you have access to it against almost every boss in the game. As of right now, a rainbow set made up of decent DBs is quite expensive. Not everybody has that kind of money to throw around. While there are only a small number of them outside of Shironia, it's always possible SEGA will continue with the trend and add more mobs with breakable parts in the future.

This is completely wrong, sorry.

If you can't afford rainbow dual blades you shouldn't be using dual blades.

Break stance is only the best stance for 30-40% of bosses, and it's not worth 20 points for that. For the majority of the game, which is mainly trash, and the remaining 60-70% of the bosses, element stance is far better.

I also keep hearing different stories about how break stance works, some say it applies even after breaking the part and some say it only does that for dragons. It doesn't matter which is true, but if the latter is true, it makes the skill even worse than it already is.

Break stance is garbage, it's as simple as that. Use elemental stance, suck it up and get rainbow dual blades, or don't play dual blade BO. A full rainbow set is very cheap if you know what you're doing, mine cost me less than 100k to buy and less than 3m to grind.

[NexusAZ]

This is completely wrong, sorry.

If you can't afford rainbow dual blades you shouldn't be using dual blades.

Break stance is only the best stance for 30-40% of bosses, and it's not worth 20 points for that. For the majority of the game, which is mainly trash, and the remaining 60-70% of the bosses, element stance is far better.

I also keep hearing different stories about how break stance works, some say it applies even after breaking the part and some say it only does that for dragons. It doesn't matter which is true, but if the latter is true, it makes the skill even worse than it already is.

Break stance is garbage, it's as simple as that. Use elemental stance, suck it up and get rainbow dual blades, or don't play dual blade BO. A full rainbow set is very cheap if you know what you're doing, mine cost me less than 100k to buy and less than 3m to grind.

Guess I'm too poor to play BO how I want then.

Break Stance is supposed to apply it's bonus after a part is broken. If it's not, it's an oversight by SEGA that should be (and hopefully will be) fixed.

When you say you paid that much for a rainbow set, that's definitely just crafted gear or you're just using very underwhelming gear. For DBs, the jump from the best 9* to the worst 10* is pretty hefty. Crafted gear is fine, but unless you're rocking around 700 dex, you're not going to offset the damage variance. If you've got a Dex Mag, cool. You won't be hit that hard by it. If not, crafted weapons aren't that fun.

When it comes to endgame DBs, a rainbow set will add up to a fairly good amount. More than most players are willing to spend. Later down the line when they're cheaper, sure. But unless they're loaded, they won't have an incredible setup of 11* weapons.

I'm not saying Break Stance is better than Elemental all the time. Break Stance is certainly situational, but it's not garbage. The Bouncer tree isn't so loaded that you can't pick up both skills. Even more so if you're sticking to a single weapon type.

[gigawuts]

If Break Stance had something to help it out on targets with no breakable parts it'd be swell.

15% sounds fair.

Still though, you really don't need a rainbow palette of DBs. Just 2, maybe 3 will cover enough of the game that you can swap to JBs for the rest or eat the damage loss on things that will die in 1/6th of your PA instead of 1/7th of it.

[Zerolimit]

Shiyo I have nothing wrong with most of your arguments, however saying that if you dont have a rainbow set of dual blades you shouldnt be using them? come on. Yes a rainbow set is optimal at the moment, but for people who dont have 100mil+ they cant afford any of the good dual blades let alone max them out and change the elements. so while it is not optimal having a dual blade in light or lightning takes care of 60% of the game. also as a mention you may not want to come off as a know it all.

As for my opinions on bouncer as a whole. Its a little to good. Especially the shift of DB's. I enjoy the class but its becoming the new shunka for the most part. Despersion shrike kills every single mob around you and is not bad on bosses if you position yourself right. and the photon blades can take out bosses before you can say shift. That being said jet boots are lacking in my opinion.

[Shiyo]

Fire and Light dual blades is passable.

Dark and Light since more current content is dark and light weak is also passable.

It does not cost 100m+ to rainbow dual blades, it costs less than 3m for a full set of rainbow dual blades grinded and potentialed if you know what you're doing. Add maybe 1-2m more for affixes.

[Fallast]

I'd have to agree with shiyo, Break stance is utter garbage unless you either don't want to make rainbows t swords or cant afford to, though cost isn't that big an issue when you could just start with 2* until you can get better ones.

Break stance on it's own is 10% stronger, but that isn't counting the damage bonus for using elemental weaknesses, which applies along with elemental stance. Overall you do the same or slightly more to bosses with elemental and a rainbow build than you do with break stance, even against a break., and that isn't even counting the damage boost vs non boss enemies that you'll never get with break stance.

I don't know what type of crafted stuff you use, but with craft mastery my EX.9 9* rainbow blades are roughly the same s atk wise unaffixed as the 12* ones are.

Crit exists for a reason, and if you don't have a dex mag like some of us do, crit aura, element crit, and whatever crit skill you have on you're sub makes crafted items totally viable regardless of dex.

I won't say that you shouldn't play T swords without element stance, but you are gimping yourself quite a bit.

[Xaelouse]

Break stance is absolute garbage. Take this from someone that spend some AC making another tree just to test it.
The only time it's ever at all good is against dragons since they have parts that can break multiple times apparently. So 30 dark element niren orochi has a use there I guess.
Okay okay, I'll give it some credit. It's good against Apos and Elder too. Those fights actually force you to hit breakables majority of the time anyway.

[Fallast]

Even on Apos and Elder, if you have a rainbow build you have wind or lightning swords, and those + elemental stance still makes break stance look worthless. I routinely break Gunne's helm faster with element stance than i did with break stance. Granted it would be a slightly different story if I had dark element swords and break stance, but the comparison is moot since you still wouldn't have swords for every element to give break stance an edge over element stance, or you'd use element in the first place.

Edit: break stance is meant to apply it's damage boost to already broken parts, but that doesn't really change the fact that it's weak for how situational it is.

[Ceresa]

Fire and Light dual blades is passable.

Dark and Light since more current content is dark and light weak is also passable.

It does not cost 100m+ to rainbow dual blades, it costs less than 3m for a full set of rainbow dual blades grinded and potentialed if you know what you're doing. Add maybe 1-2m more for affixes.

You really don't even need anything but light at this point. The cheapest 10 star even conveniently has a darker killing latent. Every single EM where people want to go fast is 100% darkers, Elder, Luther, TD, Izanai, even Yurikago. At worst you lose damage against a few rare bosses, but there's plenty of other crap to keep you occupied in those missions anyways...

Rest of the game is basically 2-3 DO a day and some VH TA once a week, no one gonna care how weak you are for that.

[Xaelouse]

Not everyone plays the game like an EQ simulator.

[Fallast]

I'd rather actually play the game than spend most of it in the lobby, as enjoyable as that sounds. Besides, the whole point was how bad break stance is, if you don't care about power in the first place just use break stance and your swords and don't bother.

Seriously though, if you needed confirmation that sega knows break stance is bad, niren orochi (12*) has +60% break stance damage as a potential. That is seriously the only weapon that would make break stance worth it.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'd rather actually play the game than spend most of it in the lobby, as enjoyable as that sounds. Besides, the whole point was how bad break stance is, if you don't care about power in the first place just use break stance and your swords and don't bother.

Seriously though, if you needed confirmation that sega knows break stance is bad, niren orochi (12*) has +60% break stance damage as a potential. That is seriously the only weapon that would make break stance worth it.

What makes it funny is the fact DBs do multiple small hits, so if a part breaks in the middle of a PA like kestrel, the player doesn't even get that benefit for the full PA.

I had such hopes that they'd learn to balance the game a bit better by now.

So here we are with a class where one of their two weapons is stuck with the choice an overly situational stance that isn't worth the investment, or a stance that demands more than one pair of dual blades to get any consistent benefit in the skill tree. Didn't think a mistake like this was possible for them after they did a decent job with fury/guard, brave/wise, average/weak.

Here's hoping we get an unconditional multiplier somewhere in the stances so spending skillpoints on either of them is less cringe-worthy for blade fans?

[Aine]

If you go DB-only you'll have more than enough points to put into both stances.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

If you go DB-only you'll have more than enough points to put into both stances.

The question is; do you really want to though, or do you just have nothing better to do with those points? Therein lies the issue.

[oratank]

you mean this?
Elemental PP Restorate
Critical Field
Deband PP Restorate
Elemental S Critical

[UnLucky]

Or you could get enough S-Atk to further marginalize Break Stance as if it needed any help

[Fallast]

Personally I opted for the S atk passives over picking up break stance, but I have a pure dex mag too. Between HU and BO I have ~2700 s atk after shifta, which is ridiculous on an element t saber build. Without dex on units or mag though, I'd take crit aura and elemental S crit definitely, unless you ARE one of those people who is rich enough to have non crafted rainbow swords that are actually worth using.

[Shiyo]

You really don't even need anything but light at this point. The cheapest 10 star even conveniently has a darker killing latent. Every single EM where people want to go fast is 100% darkers, Elder, Luther, TD, Izanai, even Yurikago. At worst you lose damage against a few rare bosses, but there's plenty of other crap to keep you occupied in those missions anyways...

Rest of the game is basically 2-3 DO a day and some VH TA once a week, no one gonna care how weak you are for that.

I actually enjoy playing the game, not afking in lobby until an EQ pops.

Dark weapon is mandatory at this point for the new planet, and many enemy types are weak to fire(tundra, forest, and coast mobs). Those 3 elements alone would cover most enemies you'll face.

If you go DB-only you'll have more than enough points to put into both stances.


Not if you're speccing properly, you should be putting points into crit stance, crit field, and craft mastery, or satk up. Both of those options are far better than break stance.

[gigawuts]

Hm...

It'd be nice to see something like the field buffs having stronger effects tied to specific stances.

Critical Field would get Critical Break Field, for bonus damage to crits during Break Stance (even ones that don't hit breakable parts), and same with Element PP Restorate Field on Element Stance (which would merely give you more PP).

Not sure if I'd want to see Break Stance's boosts tied to cooldowns though. Just some morning spitballing I guess.

[Shiyo]

If anything is ever tied to break stance I'm never playing BO again.

[gigawuts]

If anything is ever tied to break stance I'm never playing BO again.

I honestly can't tell if you're portraying a caricature of a tryhard or if you actually say these things in all sincerity.

[Aine]

I dunno why people have an allergy to break stance considering the only thing Bo excels at is boss fights

[Shiyo]

I dunno why people have an allergy to break stance considering the only thing Bo excels at is boss fights

People seriously think BO has no good mobbing?

What world are people living in?

I honestly can't tell if you're portraying a caricature of a tryhard or if you actually say these things in all sincerity.

Break stance is so badly designed it makes me want to uninstall PSO2.

[Ce'Nedra]

Break stance is so badly designed it makes me want to uninstall PSO2.

Maybe you should do so then and stop trying to tell people how to play the game/class cause clearly no one is listening or caring anyway. Saves yourself a headache too :wacko:

[Shiyo]

Maybe you should do so then and stop trying to tell people how to play the game/class cause clearly no one is listening or caring anyway. Saves yourself a headache too :wacko:

Oh? You care enough to reply to me with petty insults.
Also:
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3185319&postcount=1115

Seems some people listen and care.

I'll continue to give good advice with facts and math to back it up to help people. Unlike you, who is just here to make petty insults and provide no useful information or feedback.

If you disagree with my opinion on stuff, argue against me with facts, data, and math. I will gladly change my mind if I am shown I'm wrong. I always welcome being told and shown I'm wrong. Knowledge is power.

About break stance, if it let you still deal extra damage AFTER breaking parts on 100% of things, and it was buffed to like 30% + 30% I would like it a lot more. It's an interesting concept, it's just implemented in the worst way imaginable(trend in japanese games).

[Ce'Nedra]

Wrong.

Wrong what? if you take effort to reply at least do it so I can understand what you mean

[gigawuts]

Oh, I know: Break Field Boost. Some bonus to you and nearby players when you use Break Stance during any field. Or a debuff to enemies within range of your fields?

Break Stance has a good basic concept (one I even supported myself a while back); it just relies too much on that single bonus. If it had a bit more oomph when something had no breakable parts, or gave like 15-20% to non-breakable parts (and a bit more to breakable parts), I'd say it was fine. You can't stack numbers on something like this, because then it's still useless when something has no breakable parts but becomes crazy OP when something does have breakable parts. Let's not do that sort of shit again.

It's just a bit too conditional as-is. The stances need a more active role in their application, instead of being purely passive damage mods.

Also Break Hit/Advance should go to another class as a 20% passive. I say Hunter. Or...no. Techer. Because fuck it.

[Shiyo]

Oh, I know: Break Field Boost. Some bonus to you and nearby players when you use Break Stance during any field. Or a debuff to enemies within range of your fields?

Break Stance has a good basic concept (one I even supported myself a while back); it just relies too much on that single bonus. If it had a bit more oomph when something had no breakable parts, or gave like 15-20% to non-breakable parts (and a bit more to breakable parts), I'd say it was fine. You can't stack numbers on something like this, because then it's still useless when something has no breakable parts but becomes crazy OP when something does have breakable parts. Let's not do that sort of shit again.

It's just a bit too conditional as-is. The stances need a more active role in their application, instead of being purely passive damage mods.

Also Break Hit/Advance should go to another class as a 20% passive. I say Hunter. Or...no. Techer. Because fuck it.

How about this:

Breaking a part with break stance active gives a damage bonus to you and nearby players for 60 seconds. Maybe +20% damage.

I want to be encouraged to constantly swap stances instead of sitting in one stance on every class 99% of the time. I also would prefer it not costing 40 points to max 2 stances.

Wrong what? if you take effort to reply at least do it so I can understand what you mean


Read my edit.

[Ce'Nedra]

Oh? You care enough to reply to me with petty insults.
Also:
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3185319&postcount=1115

Seems some people listen and care.

I'll continue to give good advice with facts and math to back it up to help people. Unlike you, who is just here to make petty insults and provide no useful information or feedback.

Sorry but what part of that post is a petty insult? This post will have one though since I honestly can't believe how you have the patience to make yourself sound like an ass in every post you make while giving your advice.

[Shiyo]

Sorry but what part of that post is a petty insult? This post will have one though since I honestly can't believe how you have the patience to make yourself sound like an ass in every post you make while giving your advice.
When are you going to discuss PSO2 and give advice/feedback/useful information?

Let me know.

[Ce'Nedra]

When are you going to discuss PSO2 and give advice/feedback/useful information?

Let me know.

Never because of people like you that reply like this to everything a person who never discuss stuff says. I can spend my time better arguing on a forum over 100 more damage. You also obv have nothing to do but hit f5 to see if someone replies as well it seems.

[Chdata]

lol 14 yr olds on game forums

[gigawuts]

You also obv have nothing to do but hit f5 to see if someone replies as well it seems.

Hey now, don't knock it till you try it.

[IndignationSWF]

MOMMY, DADDY, STOP FIGHTING!!
Or at least take it to the fields and debate eachother over a Falz Run.
Thread is about Bouncer perceptions, stay on target.

[Mysterious-G]

My original point was that Break Stance works exceptionally well on Luther, which is true. In that particular case and a few others, Break Stance will outdamage Elemental Stance. All those cases are exclusive to boss fights, however. Outside of that, which is the point I think Shiyo is trying to make, Break Stance becomes useless, and thus a waste of 20SP in his eyes. And in a general sense, he is right. Elemental Stance is far more reliable and appliable in just about every situation.

But I do not see why a skill that is generally worse to provide a damage increase cannot be deemed better to use for a few selected situations. That is not the same, and I wish it could be treated as a different subject all together.

[NoiseHERO]

I thought this thread was already answered 14 pages ago- nevermind go nuts.

[Stealthcmc1974]

I thought this thread was already answered 14 pages ago- nevermind go nuts.

There's nothing we can do to stop them anyway.

[Ce'Nedra]

Hey now, don't knock it till you try it.

Actually been there, done that, though that was with PM's ^^;

[gigawuts]

Actually been there, done that, though that was with PM's ^^;

Due to having a backlit keyboard, my F5 key is the brightest light in my room. It makes an excellent nightlight.

[Ce'Nedra]

Due to having a backlit keyboard, my F5 key is the brightest light in my room. It makes an excellent nightlight.

Onegai Gigawuts-senpai. Teach me thou great arts.

[Mysterious-G]

I love how one has to read through an entire page of irrelevant Off-Topic jabbering before finally reaching a post relevant to the topic. Stay classy, psow.

[Ce'Nedra]

I love how one has to read through an entire page of irrelevant Off-Topic jabbering before finally reaching a post relevant to the topic. Stay classy, psow.

Sometimes a page of off-topicness is needed to keep things fresh here. It gets rather boring reading the same arguments over and over sadly.

[gigawuts]

I love how one has to read through an entire page of irrelevant Off-Topic jabbering before finally reaching a post relevant to the topic. Stay classy, psow.

I once partook in a 17 page thread arguing semantics over whether salt made water boil faster in a thread about boiling an egg.

The topic of boiling an egg basically didn't ever happen.

PSOW ain't shit.

[Ezodagrom]

Elemental Stance is far more reliable and appliable in just about every situation.
Except for needing weapons of almost every element in the case of dual blades or someone that subs BO and uses other weapon types too.

Personally I got break stance just because I hate the idea of elemental stance, and I refuse to get a rainbow pallete (or even just a few copies of the same weapon).

[Ce'Nedra]

I once partook in a 17 page thread arguing semantics over whether salt made water boil faster in a thread about boiling an egg.

The topic of boiling an egg basically didn't ever happen.

PSOW ain't shit.

You never cease to amaze me...that's just awesome.


Except for needing weapons of almost every element in the case of dual blades or someone that subs BO and uses other weapon types too.

Personally I got break stance just because I hate the idea of elemental stance, and I refuse to get a rainbow pallete (or even just a few copies of the same weapon).

This pretty much, as much I would like to try Elemental Stance I refuse to waste meseta on a Rainbow Pallete, that and I barely even have a spot to put stances on my BO/TE anyway with already way to many skills to activate. I'm not even sure I'm gonna get Photon Blade Fever skills since right now I use Jet Boots way to much as they are awesome for mobbing. I do see the potential for bosses Duals have though.

[CelestialBlade]

I always enjoy threads like these because they tend to bring together several very interesting groups of people and locks them in a room with furniture made of F5 keys. You've got people that take video games far too seriously, overly defensive people, trolls, people that actually play games for fun, and people that live to convince others how "right" they are. Not always mutually-exclusive I might add. It's just begging for a bowl of popcorn and a cold drink.

That and, as said previously, roughly 5% of the thread is actually relevant to the original topic, which I believe was explained away by realizing "gee, would I rather try out something new or run the same boring thing another 100 times?". But by all means, carry on, because this is easy entertainment.

[saraishadow]

I always enjoy threads like these because they tend to bring together several very interesting groups of people and locks them in a room with furniture made of F5 keys. You've got people that take video games far too seriously, overly defensive people, trolls, people that actually play games for fun, and people that live to convince others how "right" they are. Not always mutually-exclusive I might add. It's just begging for a bowl of popcorn and a cold drink.

That and, as said previously, roughly 5% of the thread is actually relevant to the original topic, which I believe was explained away by realizing "gee, would I rather try out something new or run the same boring thing another 100 times?". But by all means, carry on, because this is easy entertainment.

This ^

[Ce'Nedra]

It's just begging for a bowl of popcorn and a cold drink.

But by all means, carry on, because this is easy entertainment.

The entire reason I still visit this place. Also you need to get back online D;

[Shiyo]

You never cease to amaze me...that's just awesome.



This pretty much, as much I would like to try Elemental Stance I refuse to waste meseta on a Rainbow Pallete, that and I barely even have a spot to put stances on my BO/TE anyway with already way to many skills to activate. I'm not even sure I'm gonna get Photon Blade Fever skills since right now I use Jet Boots way to much as they are awesome for mobbing. I do see the potential for bosses Duals have though.
BO/TE
Not taking blade fever
Not using rainbow dual blades
It's like you want to do as little damage as humanly possible.

[Dnd]

I once partook in a 17 page thread arguing semantics over whether salt made water boil faster in a thread about boiling an egg.

The topic of boiling an egg basically didn't ever happen.

PSOW ain't shit.
[SPOILER-BOX]https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10649556_10204513121085900_2447107548570636569_n.j pg?oh=4cdf5af9805986ac988bfd7f352b731b&oe=5495CE65[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Ce'Nedra]

BO/TE
Not taking blade fever
Not using rainbow dual blades
It's like you want to do as little damage as humanly possible.

More like I don't give a damn about DPS like you :wacko: Everyone plays the game in their own way, stop trying to force people to play how you want thanks.

[Shiyo]

More like I don't give a damn about DPS like you :wacko: Everyone plays the game in their own way, stop trying to force people to play how you want thanks.

Being inefficient and intentionally gimping yourself isn't playing your own way.

Using a full guard stance HU build, playing TE/HU in ep2, maining wired lance, playing Bow BR, playing a trap ranger, etc is playing your own way. Playing as a completely worthless BO/TE, not using rainbow dual blades(they don't cost 100m, sorry to break it to you but you can get full rainbow dual blades for less than 3m meseta INCLUDING grinding), and not even picking up photon blade fever is just being plain stupid, it's basically playing a class and refusing to use anything over a 3 star and claiming "THIS IS HOW I WANT TO PLAY DON'T QUESTION HOW I WANT TO PLAY".

[Ce'Nedra]

B-but Shiyo-senpai, 3* are awesome in design ;~;

[Rien]

B-but Shiyo-senpai, 3* are awesome in design ;~;

this does not apply to a majority of the tech weapons

[Ce'Nedra]

this does not apply to a majority of the tech weapons

Sadly it doesn't no...but most of the melee ones do at least. I don't play ranged enough to know how these do. Any good?

[Kikikiki]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/bmvoQ.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Every argumentative thread ever.

OK fine I was just bored. Let's make an actual post for once.


More like I don't give a damn about DPS

Do you also do this in EQs? Because if yes then you're seriously annoying the shit out of everyone trying to get all the phat lootz (including me). I don't care how you play outside EQs but I sure hope you don't bring this shitty combination and the shitty excuse of playing your own way into EQs and shit on everyone's effort :-?

[Rien]

Sadly it doesn't no...but most of the melee ones do at least. I don't play ranged enough to know how these do. Any good?

everything except launchers in my opinion

[Ezodagrom]

Being inefficient and intentionally gimping yourself isn't playing your own way.

[...]not using rainbow dual blades[...]
Hmm, what to do...
Should I...pick elemental stance and get 6 dual blades with the same set of dps focused PAs that don't suit my playstyle, or...
Pick different weapon types that I want to use without caring about element (in my case, TE/BO, would be dual blades, jet boots and wands), use different PAs in them that suit my playstyle, and use break stance because of lack of better options...hmm...

The 2nd option sounds like playing my own way to me, the 1st one doesn't.

[Ce'Nedra]

Do you also do this in EQs? Because if yes then you're seriously annoying the shit out of everyone trying to get all the phat lootz (including me). I don't care how you play outside EQs but I sure hope you don't bring this shitty combination and the shitty excuse of playing your own way into EQs and shit on everyone's effort :-?

Given the fact the only EQs that even need this are Loser and TDs, for TD I play Katana BR/HU with Warcry and on Loser I play TE/HU to keep the entire party alive with rest and buffs (and its needed, people die like dogs there) and attack where possible. I'm not top tier dps but my gear isn't that bad either but at least I contribute runs. If that isn't enough then whelp, I'm afraid I will be "shitting down" everyone's effort.


everything except launchers in my opinion

Hoooh interesting. Though I must say 6* gear tends to look badass as well...these 6* dual blades for example *drools*

[VagrantVan]

The hell are rainbow dual blades?

[Ezodagrom]

The hell are rainbow dual blades?
A set of 6 dual blades, one covering each element.

[Ce'Nedra]

But we all know its about Elysion Stance and Rainbow Sazan 16...everything else is trash anyway :wacko:

[VagrantVan]

Goddammit. I was searching the wiki for these magical multi-colored dual blades. Didn't think it'd be something so... mundane.

[Ce'Nedra]

Goddammit. I was searching the wiki for these magical multi-colored dual blades. Didn't think it'd be something so... mundane.

That would be awesome tbh...Sega make it happen!

[Shiyo]

Rainbow isn't 6, wind is a worthless element.

Hmm, what to do...
Should I...pick elemental stance and get 6 dual blades with the same set of dps focused PAs that don't suit my playstyle, or...
Pick different weapon types that I want to use without caring about element (in my case, TE/BO, would be dual blades, jet boots and wands), use different PAs in them that suit my playstyle, and use break stance because of lack of better options...hmm...

The 2nd option sounds like playing my own way to me, the 1st one doesn't.
TE/BO is intentionally gimping yourself for absolutely no reason. Not using elemental stance as a TE/BO is basically gimping yourself to the point where I ask do you even understand basic game mechanics. You obviously aren't using rainbow wands either,so you shouldn't even be attempting to play melee TE.

BO/HU, BO/FI and TE/BR are what you should be playing, if you want to play TE or BO.

[Kikikiki]

Given the fact the only EQs that even need this are Loser and TDs, for TD I play Katana BR/HU with Warcry and on Loser I play TE/HU to keep the entire party alive with rest and buffs (and its needed, people die like dogs there) and attack where possible. I'm not top tier dps but my gear isn't that bad either but at least I contribute runs. If that isn't enough then whelp, I'm afraid I will be "shitting down" everyone's effort.

Yeah, this is all that's really needed :wacko: Who gives a rat's ass outside of EQ? Just play however you want to; it's more fun that way :wacko:

[Ezodagrom]

Rainbow isn't 6, wind is a worthless element.
Oh, yeah, you're right, a rainbow has 7 colours. :3


TE/BO is intentionally gimping yourself for absolutely no reason. Not using elemental stance as a TE/BO is basically gimping yourself to the point where I ask do you even understand basic game mechanics. You obviously aren't using rainbow wands either,so you shouldn't even be attempting to play melee TE.

BO/HU, BO/FI and TE/BR are what you should be playing, if you want to play TE or BO.
TE/BO, jet boots have mechanics to use support, there are some support skills that need TE main class (3 minutes buffs from 1 cast, shifta strike, deband toughness), I can get to use elysion without crafting it and just get the bio dual blades and jet boots once they're released, and it suits my playstyle perfectly.
Am I gimping myself? Dunno, don't care, I couldn't care less.

[Ce'Nedra]

Yeah, this is all that's really needed :wacko: Who gives a rat's ass outside of EQ? Just play however you want to; it's more fun that way :wacko:

Exactly, yet people like Shiyo just can't seem to understand this, trying for force people into classes they don't want too.

Specially with all the buffs lately everything is strong enough to be used, its just how people use it. I especially respecced my BR/HUs tree to add Warcry to be more useful in TDs cause I always only collected crystals really.

[Shiyo]

Oh, yeah, you're right, a rainbow has 7 colours. :3


TE/BO, jet boots have mechanics to use support, there are some support skills that need TE main class (3 minutes buffs from 1 cast, shifta strike, deband toughness), I can get to use elysion without crafting it and just get the bio dual blades and jet boots once they're released, and it suits my playstyle perfectly.
Am I gimping myself? Dunno, don't care, I couldn't care less.
TE/BR has the exact same support as a TE/BO except it loses a field(or two, where crit one is useless for everyone not BO or FI), and the PP restore field isn't worth losing 50% of your damage over.

TE/BO is bad.

[Ezodagrom]

TE/BR has the exact same support as a TE/BO except it loses a field(or two, where crit one is useless for everyone not BO or FI), and the PP restore field isn't worth losing 50% of your damage over.

TE/BO is bad.
I didn't get and don't use those fields, I chose TE/BO because of both support and the choice of weapons, and when it comes to TE/BO vs TE/BR, there's one thing that TE/BO has that TE/BR doesn't when it comes to support, using support mid-combo (jet boots).

(Also, I already have a different character that is TE/BR, and she was TE/BR long before episode 3, when TE/BR was an underpowered combo, that's how much I care about gimping myself.)

[NexusAZ]

I didn't get and don't use those fields, I chose TE/BO because of both support and the choice of weapons, and when it comes to TE/BO vs TE/BR, there's one thing that TE/BO has that TE/BR doesn't when it comes to support, using support mid-combo (jet boots).

(Also, I already have a different character that is TE/BR, and she was TE/BR long before episode 3, when TE/BR was an underpowered combo, that's how much I care about gimping myself.)

GET TO WAND WHACKIN'

[Ce'Nedra]

GET TO WAND WHACKIN'

It's oh so satisfying *drools*

[Z-0]

Shiyo, shut the fuck up. Why are you so bothered what people do?
I am only ever bothered by the performance of other people where going fast matters (so, Elder, Luther, TD, Mothership and Den), because being unco-operative, in my opinion, is the equivalent to just being a jerk, even if it is just a video game. That being said though, I don't even expect those to go fast, because it's just randoms and most randoms don't care.

Your attempt at being a try-hard is ridiculous, by the way. Even I am getting angry at you.

(Off-topic) Random tip to being a helpful member in TD3: Always call out your AIS usages in random games. For Wave 3 and 4 (maybe 5), people only expect 1 AIS because that's all you need, so pay attention to people talking, and if you want to use your AIS, say something like Xのります, where X is the wave number coming up.


People seriously think BO has no good mobbing?

What world are people living in?
Old post, but pay attention to wording. Excels. It does not excel at mobbing because while Disperse Strike does a lot of damage, the slow animation and forced movement makes it worse than the mobbing potentials of many other classes. Unless your Zondeel can grab everything in a spawn to put the enemies in one spot, Disperse Strike is worse than:

TB Zondeel, followed up by a strong technique or wand smacks.
Katana Finish, built up with Kanran or Hatou Rindou. (or hell, even just Kanran by itself, since it's so fast and strong now)
Additional Bullet, since it's so stupid now you can easily do 30,000s with it as RA.
Cluster Bullet, obviously. Even pre-EP3 it was hella broken and could one shot most things without JA.
And probably other things I can't be bothered remembering. Slide Shaker is probably better too, though.

Also it probably goes without saying that Bouncer is not great at bursting, since for optimal bursting you need range at exits (which is what Ranger and Force are good for, more Ranger than anything else though).

In my opinion, you should definitely get Break Stance, with a tree that looks like this (if we're concerned about being the most efficient we can be, of course):

http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0 jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006do000000lo00 000007oIn0000000lbIo000000fdoIbkIJfbfbnbsfGKGK0000 j

[milranduil]

One thing I'd change is sacrifice s-atk/shifta points for Rapid JA bonus. The 15% works with Dual Blades.

[HeyItsTHK]

TE/BO using all class bouncer weapons isn't using a wand with the bat camo for maximum effect. Gimping yourself effectively, who cares? Gimping yourself stylishly? Now I have a problem.

[Z-0]

One thing I'd change is sacrifice s-atk/shifta points for Rapid JA bonus. The 15% works with Dual Blades.
Oh that's interesting. I ended up avoiding it because I assumed it was a Boots thing only. . _.b

[milranduil]

Oh that's interesting. I ended up avoiding it because I assumed it was a Boots thing only. . _.b

It briefly mentions it on the wiki, but yeah the skill itself doesn't I don't think lol.

[FerrickX]

It briefly mentions it on the wiki, but yeah the skill itself doesn't I don't think lol.

the skill only says that it adds 15% bonus to JA when rapid boost is on, so i don't think it applies only to jet boots, however, i don't think wasting 8 points for something like that is worth it, unless if i ditch the heal share line

[ChiffonFairchild]

Honestly, I level BO with COs, play solo BO on quests with good exp where I know I can get good experience playing the class, and EQ with my main/main sub and use the COs from that EQ to again level BO. It isn't hard to properly learn to play BO if you're not foolish enough to jump into EQs with little experience playing the class. But YSG, peeps gon do what peeps gon do.

[Shiyo]

Using a subjob that compliments your main is now try hard!

[gigawuts]

Using a subjob that compliments your main is now try hard!

No, trying hard is tryhard.

And you are trying hella hard.

[Shiyo]

I'm the least tryhard person ever, I tell people what the most efficient and effective ways to play their class are.

If you think I'm tryhard I don't know what to say.

I guess I'll stop trying to steer people the correct way and stop telling them when they're doing something horribly wrong! Just let everyone sub FO on HU and run around using 3 star weapons without attributes.

Basic game knowledge = tryhard?

[gigawuts]

I tell people what the most efficient and effective ways to play their class are.

Yes, and you're trying very hard at it.

[Shiyo]

Yes, and you're trying very hard at it.

Not my fault people here have no idea what the hell they're doing and constantly need to be told they're doing something wrong.

I try hard to inform people of their bad ideas and stupidity, that is true indeed!

I find it fun, I'm getting kind of tired of more and more people coming in suggesting stupid sub combinations or suggesting bad things over and over.

[gigawuts]

Not my fault people here have no idea what the hell they're doing and constantly need to be told they're doing something wrong.

I try hard to inform people of their stupidity, that is true indeed!

But really, I'm not tryhard at all in video games :(

I never said video games.

You don't really do video games well, I gather.

Not enough logic skills.

[Shiyo]

I never said video games.

You don't really do video games well, I gather.

Not enough logic skills.


I was saying that in general, because that Z-0 person thinks I'm mega tryhard and apparently other people(not you), do as well.

Can you stop being annoying, please? I have zero problems with you.

[gigawuts]

Don't try so hard. Forcing it ruins the try. Relax; be at ease. Hard or hard not, there is no try. Let the try flow through you.

Like a leaf on the wind, or tears in rain.

Something like that.

[Shiyo]

Don't try so hard. Forcing it ruins the try. Relax; be at ease. Hard or hard not, there is no try. Let the try flow through you.

Like a leaf on the wind, or tears in rain.

Something like that.

That's pretty deep, man.

[gigawuts]

Yeah I watch a lot of intellectual films

:flex:

[chaosheal]

That's pretty deep, man.

As above so below.