Why do people only use 1 Weak Bullet during Arms and then nothing for ages?

[TaigaUC]

Here's something that's been bugging me for a long time:
I've noticed that Weak Bullet users on Arms tend to just use one bullet and then nothing for around 3-5 minutes.

Weak Bullet's cooldown isn't that long.
Is it common for people to only have 1 point in Weak Bullet or something?

Personally, I always have 10 points in WB.
I preload WB immediately, then I fire it on as many nearby Arms' butts as possible.
By the time it wears off, I can reapply it. I prioritize the Arms that people are focusing on.

[Poyonche]

Maybe all Rangers aren't like you. :3

But I Do that too (pre-load WB then fire on Arms's butts)

[Pugas87]

Here's something that's been bugging me for a long time:
I've noticed that Weak Bullet users on Arms tend to just use one bullet and then nothing for around 3-5 minutes.

Weak Bullet's cooldown isn't that long.
Is it common for people to only have 1 point in Weak Bullet or something?

Personally, I always have 10 points in WB.
I preload WB immediately, then I fire it on as many nearby Arms' butts as possible.
By the time it wears off, I can reapply it. I prioritize the Arms that people are focusing on.

One of my teammates critiqued someone applying WB to all arms as a bad ranger move. To which I responded, actually sounds like a great ranger move. Said team member did not know that all the arms share HP, and therefore thought each should be attacked and killed before moving to the next. Perhaps this thinking is common. :(

[TaigaUC]

I guess I just can't imagine why anyone would only put around 1 point into Weak Bullet.

Or are people waiting for the 1 bullet to wear off before using another one?


One of my teammates critiqued someone applying WB to all arms as a bad ranger move. To which I responded, actually sounds like a great ranger move. Said team member did not know that all the arms share HP, and therefore thought each should be attacked and killed before moving to the next. Perhaps this thinking is common. :(

Oh. That's a good point. Thanks.

[Hexxy]

Your arm runs take 3-5 minutes? Do people on your ship leave to bake cupcakes at the start of the fight or something?

Seems kind of pointless to bring just 1 bullet to the fight though, especially since capping WB doesn't hurt your tree in any way. I think you're just experiencing a really bad case of user error here.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, I've been in some really bad Arms runs in the past.
I recall one of them taking at least 7 minutes. It was very painful.

It's basically like this:
Battle starts. I wonder if we have a WB user. Nothing for a while. Eventually I see WB appear. Yay, a WBer!
Then... after that, nothing again. For ages and ages.
I run all over the place constantly checking for WBs. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Sometimes until the end of the entire battle.
And I wonder... why??

I like my Arms runs to take around 10 seconds.
Having WB on a bunch of Arms butts and then doing AOE stuff when they overlap deals ridiculously high damage.

[final_attack]

Another possibility is they missed. Noticed on party leader earlier on Arms ..... He sometimes shot the first bullet on fingers (dunno if it's accidental or not), and then start running on back. It sometimes missed too, hitting the wrist ...... Sometimes, no WB at all .....

After their ammo depleted, might be forgetting they can reload it again. Though I admit, I did forget sometimes. Hopefully not too forgetful ^^; I'm not used to use rifle yet .... my days as rangers ..... I almost never touched rifle, I mostly use Gunslash and then Charge Shot.

[Hexxy]

I guess I just can't imagine why anyone would only put around 1 point into Weak Bullet.

Or are people waiting for the 1 bullet to wear off before using another one?



Oh. That's a good point. Thanks.

People generally do this because most of the mpa will focus on a single arm (the one being stunned to death, hopefully).

If you have bravers or people with wide attacks though, putting WB on several arms is actually beneficial, as things like a fully powered Katana Finish will hit several arms for 300-600k each in one go.

[Pugas87]

People generally do this because most of the mpa will focus on a single arm (the one being stunned to death, hopefully).

If you have bravers or people with wide attacks though, putting WB on several arms is actually beneficial, as things like a fully powered Katana Finish will hit several arms for 300-600k each in one go.

This would be great if the mpa had a hive mind (or at least followed other people's example) and could focus on one arm everytime. Most experiences I've had is a flipping free for all hit what you can. Some people don't even notice when an arm has WB (or believes it to be too far away) and continue to attack the arm they were previously attacking because reasons. That's where the multiple WBs on multiple butts comes in handy.

[TaigaUC]

After their ammo depleted, might be forgetting they can reload it again.

Oh. I didn't think of that either. Thanks.
I always load it as soon as the icon lights up.
WB is just way too effective to pass up.


People generally do this because most of the mpa will focus on a single arm (the one being stunned to death, hopefully).

I haven't seen people use Zondeel on Arms lately.
I remember someone on these forums complaining about how people will stick to a single Arms even if WB is up on others.
I always try to keep WB up on Arms that are near players, so people don't have to waste all their time chasing Arms around the whole map.


This would be great if the mpa had a hive mind (or at least followed other people's example) and could focus on one arm everytime. Most experiences I've had is a flipping free for all hit what you can. Some people don't even notice when an arm has WB (or believes it to be too far away) and continue to attack the arm they were previously attacking because reasons. That's where the multiple WBs on multiple butts comes in handy.

I find it comes in handy because Arms sometimes move constantly and nobody can get a hit in.
If it's a decent group, focusing on a single Arms usually finishes the battle really quick, as long as it doesn't move.


Oh yeah... something else I keep seeing.
Large groups of people keep fighting Arms up near Falz, and getting frozen/killed by his lasers.
I wish they'd stop doing that.

[Z-0]

It's much better to not unload all your bullets onto every Arm, because once those 15 seconds are up, there's no WB for people to attack. Only put your bullets on 1 or 2 easily accessibly Arms (the best ones are the ones that do the slamming attack), then refresh once it wears off.

Most people in ANY MPA will focus on one or two arms. If there are people elsewhere attacking arms, they are the problem, not the WB'er planting WB on the most effective arms.

[silo1991]

for me 6 points are enough , with 3 bullets you do marvels :D

[Pugas87]

I haven't seen people use Zondeel on Arms lately.


You can zondeel arms? OMG I assumed you couldn't because most large enemies are resistant to it.



I remember someone on these forums complaining about how people will stick to a single Arms even if WB is up on others.


I did just complain about this :).



I always try to keep WB up on Arms that are near players, so people don't have to waste all their time chasing Arms around the whole map.
I find it comes in handy because Arms sometimes move constantly and nobody can get a hit in.


Of course, I didn't mean to imply putting WB on all arms is just for spread out enemies/players. The more WB the better, I say.

[Chdata]

People don't do that? I see and do it all the time.

[Pugas87]

It's much better to not unload all your bullets onto every Arm, because once those 15 seconds are up, there's no WB for people to attack. Only put your bullets on 1 or 2 easily accessibly Arms (the best ones are the ones that do the slamming attack), then refresh once it wears off.

Most people in ANY MPA will focus on one or two arms. If there are people elsewhere attacking arms, they are the problem, not the WB'er planting WB on the most effective arms.

This assumes there is only one ranger. Who am I kidding, getting just one ranger is lucky...

[DJcooltrainer]

Yeah, I see a lot of Ra players holding their WB's, I don't think they realize you can throw up multiple WB's during Elder Arms. It's annoying, too, because have no freaking PP recovery at all if you're saving your WB's, so they basically stand around taking up space and not doing damage.

10 points in WB all the way

[TaigaUC]

It's much better to not unload all your bullets onto every Arm, because once those 15 seconds are up, there's no WB for people to attack. Only put your bullets on 1 or 2 easily accessibly Arms (the best ones are the ones that do the slamming attack), then refresh once it wears off.

Most people in ANY MPA will focus on one or two arms. If there are people elsewhere attacking arms, they are the problem, not the WB'er planting WB on the most effective arms.

That's why I preload WB. By the time the bullets run out, I can reapply them.
If reapplying is an issue, I can always keep 1 bullet out of the four.

It's just weird when people only use 1 bullet and then nothing else.

Also, I actively switch to whichever Arms are closest and have WB so that I'm constantly dealing maximum damage.


This assumes there is only one ranger. Who am I kidding, getting just one ranger is lucky...

To be honest, I sometimes bring a second character along as a Ranger, just so I can guarantee a reliable WB.
It makes such a huge difference that it doesn't matter if I don't deal damage on that second character.
Even more useful if that character subs Zondeel too...

I don't like to do that though, because I'm taking up space of other players.

[LonelyGaruga]

You can zondeel arms? OMG I assumed you couldn't because most large enemies are resistant to it.

It's for Shock, they can't be moved by it.

[Unnamed Player]

Who am I kidding, getting just one ranger is lucky...not really...[SPOILER-BOX]http://k38.imgup.net/pso201409003a7.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Shinamori]

Yeah, I've been in some really bad Arms runs in the past.
I recall one of them taking at least 7 minutes. It was very painful.

It's basically like this:
Battle starts. I wonder if we have a WB user. Nothing for a while. Eventually I see WB appear. Yay, a WBer!
Then... after that, nothing again. For ages and ages.
I run all over the place constantly checking for WBs. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Sometimes until the end of the entire battle.
And I wonder... why??

I like my Arms runs to take around 10 seconds.
Having WB on a bunch of Arms butts and then doing AOE stuff when they overlap deals ridiculously high damage.

Same happens on Elder too.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

If your entire MPA is flocked under one arm that's WB'ed, using their strongest narrow-range attacks, using WB on more arm is a waste at that point. You're better off staggering your WB shots to make sure your MPA will always have a WBed arm to attack.

If your MPA is everywhere at once, using WB on more than one arm will make up for the disorder, but it's still better if they were in one place wailing on one arm for the sake of saving WBs.

Your thread title could be interpreted this way: since the arms share HP, attacking more than one isn't necessary.

[TaigaUC]

Oh. Sorry, I'll fix that.

[n_n]

as long as they're wbing an arm that did the continous slam attack, it shouldnt matter if they only wb one arm imo.

[UnLucky]

Your thread title could be interpreted this way: since the arms share HP, attacking more than one isn't necessary.
Pretty much. They're all essentially one enemy. Kill any to win. Switch at any time. It's all the same.

I only tag two at most, usually when the first one moves or everyone goes to a different one for some reason.

I guess people only use one WB since they're not maining the rifle, like Gu/Ra or Br/Ra, so after they do their own thing once it's like they're not even a Ranger anymore. Pretty shortsighted, but in a competent party the arms are already dead before the second or third WB is necessary, so they'd rather actually play.

Real shame Bullet Keep is worthless for anything but a launcher, though.

[Hexxy]

In the event that you only have a single WB going, you can make the most of it by dedicating yourself to breaking all parts of that arm. It's guaranteed whereas shock doesn't always work. They are extremely fragile and each break will provide your entire mpa with about 3 seconds of stun time to abuse whatever WB is up at the time, so basically almost 15 seconds if you're fast and go from break to break. More than enough to vaporize the run if the WB was placed correctly. I still think anything over 1min tops with a meh party is scary.

[Terrence]

In Pso2, RAnger is mainly a SUPPORT Class (even though it can do great damage too). So, using one Weak Bullet only (or none) during a Boss fight is a MISS PLAY. That's all. Why don't you try to Tech-DPS with a HUnter/TEcher, while you're at it ??? -_-"

[TaigaUC]

Just to be clear, a major part of this thread is why people literally only use 1 WB and then nothing for upwards of 3-5 minutes, if ever again.

Maybe they think WB is permanent.

I don't think Rangers are just support (at least, not anymore), but WB is still hands down the best support a party can have. I think the Arks GP proved that, and it still applies despite the nerf.
In regards to Rangers being more than support, when I use Impact Slider/Satellite Cannon, with or without WB, most enemies immediately curl up and die.
Then there's Cluster Bullet hitting for upwards of 30k almost all the time now. But that's getting nerfed.

[pkemr4]

as a RABR i hate being the only person with weakbullet. would rather banish arrow + LN and provide more dps then be a wb slave.

[SakoHaruo]

as a RABR i hate being the only person with weakbullet. would rather banish arrow + LN and provide more dps then be a wb slave.

Was just about to say this. It pisses me off when I have to play wb slaveas RaBr. The quest could have been over 5mins ago. D:<

[HeyItsTHK]

You need more than one WB for Arms? I guess if you get a glitchy run (which is VERY common these days thanks to the lag), or one where they don't do the ground slams and just move around a lot. Other than that I don't see why you'd need more than one.

[Dephinix]

Sounds like people actually don't know about Ra/Br enough like other posters said. I only keep two bullets for 3 points. No quick run or single boss needs more than that.
Then Rapid Shooting, all it's perks, banish arrow combo, and hope that banish arrow hits a second butt so yay, battle is over. I'm not playing support when I am a better stand alone boss killer, sorry, but be more open minded.

[Dragon_Knight]

Outside of the comical "You don't NEED more than one, so why are you only using one!" debate, I saw a post earlier where someone said they fire off WBs at several targets at once. I haven't used RA myself in a while but is this a new change? I remember the WB's only being able to work on one target at a time and if used again before the previous one wore off it would cancel the last one and apply the WB to the new target.

[Yden]

Each arm is considered a different target so it's possible to weak bullet all 4 at once. Truthfully it doesn't do very much since the majority of the group will be focusing on the first one weak bulleted which tends to be the one directly to the left of the spawn point in ship 10.

[Sacrificial]

You probably keep getting Ra/br's instead ra/hu or ra/fi. Ra/br just do the whole banish combo and well if they miss you are screwed. If they hit 30 sec arms.

rahu/rafi just keep the rifle or switch temporary to launcher for that godly cluster damage.

[TaigaUC]

I've been seeing this stuff happening for a long time though, since before RaBr was a thing.
But I didn't realize there were that many RaBrs. Haven't seen many.
I started setting one up recently, almost there. Got a nice near-max Navtorus to go with it.

I don't mind being support as long as it's making a difference.
If I can do both support and offense at the same time, even better.

[Cypher_9]

Well if that annoys you - how about 2~5 Ra/something's using WB while you are using WB. The one you just used vanishes?! (lol) Anyway, aside from the many reasons given why one is used; even with a full blood Ra - is this reason of having too many and it gets overwritten. Now I keep seeing that you can tag falz arms more on the same mob? I never seen this yet, though im slightly reminded.

The thing is, most is misinformed, lagging, lagging hard, don't see you or even notice you on the field only when you are... no the player don't even notice when you die (I suggest wholeheartedly for ALL players to be aware of their surroundings please - it really helps). And if a person just has one - they are usually speced for something else.

I will admit I was spoiled with WB - and when Gunner came out I expected them to sub RA all the way. NOPE. I was so wrong on that day but I realized that Gunner didn't have to be a WBing thing. Or anyone to be a Full WBing Ranger for that matter.

As someone said "Be OPEN MINDED" as the narrow concept of the norm have plagued many minds and have created the sorry players we complain about. Proper teaching and construction of a player to ones taste rather than the meta should of helped with an expansion.

Morally this is just to say we are too spoiled nowadays and we expect to see something without thinking about the other alternatives... Let people be what they want and guide them aside from critizing their choices ~ rather help enforce and let them know with explaination why this wouldn't be a good idea... Though Ep3 sorta melted most of it away...

And Bouncer will be nerfed....

End Rant that is not so really Rant...

Just wind...

[BIG OLAF]

Truthfully it doesn't do very much since the majority of the group will be focusing on the first one weak bulleted

Uh, yeah, this right here. A good and well-coordinated party will all flood to one hand, anyway. WBing as many hands as possible is a waste, usually. There you go.

[Maenara]

Because if the arms aren't dead by the time the weak bullet runs out, then it's a shitty group and you should find a new one.
See, I can be elitist too!

[TaigaUC]

If I see a good WBer setting up WB, I won't overwrite. No point.


Uh, yeah, this right here. A good and well-coordinated party will all flood to one hand, anyway. WBing as many hands as possible is a waste, usually. There you go.

A good and well-coordinated party will move to the nearest arm if the first arm moves to the other side of the entire map.

Fact: The arms move, they don't just sit there.
Zondeel shocking isn't always reliable, either.

Personally, I don't think it's efficient for an entire party to chase the first arm for 5 minutes.
Obvious solution is to just slap WB up on the closest arm to everyone.

Anyway, that's not really relevant to people using WB only once even after it wears off.
And yeah, if it has time to wear off, the party is not very good.

[Z-0]

Because if the arms aren't dead by the time the weak bullet runs out, then it's a shitty group and you should find a new one.
See, I can be elitist too!
It's not being elitist though. It IS a shitty group, considering ALL classes have attacks to do a buttload of damage on stationary weak points. If the arms don't slam at the start (they usually do), it can take some time to get it done, but it should never, ever be more than a minute.

Facts are facts.

[HeyItsTHK]

It's not being elitist though. It IS a shitty group, considering ALL classes have attacks to do a buttload of damage on stationary weak points. If the arms don't slam at the start (they usually do), it can take some time to get it done, but it should never, ever be more than a minute.

Facts are facts.

These days it takes longer to whatever the heck is going on with the servers. I've been getting more invisible arms, glitchy arms, extra arms, etc.

Even Arms in extreme quests will goof up. It's annoying.

[Z-0]

You're right, of course, the huge lag spikes during Elder at JP Primetime or scheduled is so high it's ridiculous.

[GHNeko]

Z-0, how do you determine what is a good or bad MPA?

You give me the impression that the baseline you work off of is based mostly, if not completely on 70/70 minmax high level player meta.

Because as far as I know, there is no objective baseline for what is good or bad.

[Z-0]

My baseline is decency. An MPA that is not decent is a bad MPA.

I have never played Falz Arms with 70/70 min-maxed people, because everyone playing Falz Arms is just levelling.
You do not need to be 70/70 or have amazing gear you actually do things fast in this game, so if things are going slow, it is entirely down to the player, not their gear.

Considering that a 6-player MPA with my friends (with a WB) is faster than playing PUGs, I'd say people are bad if Arms take over a minute, considering if we do those MPAs, we are levelling lowbies who probably can't wear our best gear anyway.

[GHNeko]

You say Decency, but what is that exactly?

It's just that idk. I find that considering Falz being bopped in under a minute being bad is well...baseless.

It might be the standard amongst skilled players but else where, it probably takes longer than a minute.

maybe I'm just not understanding.

[Walkure]

Is it really a skill thing if all you need to do is:

Walk to the left.
Walk back to the center after arms finish bongo drumming.
Pummel the backside.

[Uncle_bob]

How is it taking you more than two or three minutes to kill Falz Arms?

[GHNeko]

How is it taking you more than two or three minutes to kill Falz Arms?

My runs are 50-90seconds atm.

[Nitro Vordex]

How is it taking you more than two or three minutes to kill Falz Arms?
Pretty much this. Anything over three minutes is just silly. You can be sure there are gimmicky people or people not paying attention.

Alternatively, more lag for the lag god.

[GHNeko]

The lag that occurs doing arms is absolutely insane.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, lately I've been seeing the "Arms won't die and don't spawn loot" bug a lot more often.
And the rank screen almost always comes up late.

Even at low level, people can just get crafted stuff now, so gear shouldn't be a problem.
As long as you aren't getting pancaked by a string of slam juggles.

Ideal scenario for Arms is:
1. 1 or 2 Arms try to slam the players at spawn point.
2. Players move around, WB the butt, destroy it immediately.
3. Someone uses Zondeel just in case, but this can mess with positioning.

Worst scenario:
1. Arms keep moving large distances and never stay still.
2. Nobody has WB, or the people who have it never use it. Or someone only uses it on the fingers until they break, then nothing.
3. Everybody is low level, have crap gear and keep dying non stop (honestly, this seems to be more common with EN groups).

[EvilMag]

You know these lag spikes really show that the community prefers Elder over Luther.

I never seem to get any lag during Luther but Elder..holy fuck. Even being in an empty block the server takes a shit.

I almost couldn't even get my 5th Elder fight in cause of how bad the lag was.

[UnLucky]

Well, the Arms are spammable for massive EXP whereas Apostle isn't rewarding by itself (just the counter for Luther).

Elder has the strongest katana in the game, and I personally want the Psycho Wand even though it's not that great. The rest are kinda trash, though.

Luther has some okay 12*s, but that APPR latent is only good on the bow. An easily obtainable double saber or gunslash with the weaker variant would be better. Not worth the effort if most 11*s and some 10*s are stronger even at 50% element which is nigh impossible for a 12*.

So if you care about drops, then Elder is better.
If you don't care about drops, then Elder is better.

[Walkure]

Elder is better for leveling, and practically everyone wants to level grind right now.


Worst scenario:
1. Arms keep moving large distances and never stay still.
2. Nobody has WB, or the people who have it never use it. Or someone only uses it on the fingers until they break, then nothing.
3. Everybody is low level, have crap gear and keep dying non stop (honestly, this seems to be more common with EN groups).
My personal favorite is seeing no weak bullet on the arm that slammed at the start, then ~5 second later seeing a WB'd arm sliding around in the distance. 3-4 people peel off the un-WB'd arm to chase down the moving one with WB, and then the bullet wears off before anyone actually attacks it.

Runner up is the run that's seemingly without WB end with a ninja bullet out of nowhere half a second after the 10% HP message.

:train: choo choo all aboard the fail train

[EvilMag]

And yet they spam Luther and fucking IRs show up more than Elder randomly.

Thanks Sega.

[Chik'Tikka]

One of my teammates critiqued someone applying WB to all arms as a bad ranger move. To which I responded, actually sounds like a great ranger move. Said team member did not know that all the arms share HP, and therefore thought each should be attacked and killed before moving to the next. Perhaps this thinking is common. :(

The thinking is that they do share HP, if all four arms are WBed at once, only four people can attack each arm and do WB damage for that 15 seconds, however, if only 1 arm is WBed, then 12 people can attack that one arm for 15 seconds, then you re-apply the WB allowing for 12 people to do 1 minute worth of WB damage rather then 15 seconds+^_^+ am i making sense?

By focusing the MPA's attacks and dmg on one WB at a time, you can stack them so the MPA does more DPS for longer while WB cools down+^_^+

[Achelousaurus]

Your arm runs take 3-5 minutes? Do people on your ship leave to bake cupcakes at the start of the fight or something?
Yeah.
Arm runs are usually so fast if you blink you miss it.
More than once I lagged out of (or missed) the initial teleport and by the time I could teleport again, I got the "Quest finished by another party" message.

[TaigaUC]

Rare Apos Dorios drops those hard-to-get 16 discs. Sometimes. Rarely.

I've been getting nasty lag during Luther's time stop. It becomes impossible to reliably dodge.
There was one time we destroyed the daggers, and then time stopped.
Truly awful lag.

I don't even bother doing Elder anymore. Sick of him.


:train: choo choo all aboard the fail train

That's the stuff I mean. It's just weird... like, WTF are people thinking/doing?

[Achelousaurus]

You can zondeel arms? OMG I assumed you couldn't because most large enemies are resistant to it.



I did just complain about this :).



Of course, I didn't mean to imply putting WB on all arms is just for spread out enemies/players. The more WB the better, I say.
Yeah.
Running up to the wb'ed arm is a huge hassle and wastes tons of time cause they move so fast, there's always lag and you can get hit and all.

[Chdata]

I just realized that if your MPA has weak bullet and it lasts long enough for "then nothing" then you're entire MPA is bad anyway...

[Rien]

The thinking is that they do share HP, if all four arms are WBed at once, only four people can attack each arm and do WB damage for that 15 seconds, however, if only 1 arm is WBed, then 12 people can attack that one arm for 15 seconds, then you re-apply the WB allowing for 12 people to do 1 minute worth of WB damage rather then 15 seconds+^_^+ am i making sense?

By focusing the MPA's attacks and dmg on one WB at a time, you can stack them so the MPA does more DPS for longer while WB cools down+^_^+

This is how it goes on paper, however this is almost never the case because the arms move on their own, so the WB'd arm has *some* tendency to turn away and move out, causing melee attackers to focus on a closer arm instead of bothering to chase.

Thus, WB a single arm is not the most efficient off paper.

[Achelousaurus]

Yeah, arms movement is chaotic, people almost never stun and lag is constant.
most of the time trying to hit the WB arm just means you take 3 times long er to deal damage and end up killing slower.