To those of you that made it to SHard with a Force or Techer...

[the_importer_]

How punishing did find the experience? Compared to PSO Ult, I can actually dish out a lot of damage, but like PSO Ult, I'm still very fragile. Took me 3 tried to kill the Quartz Dragon, 1 ramming hit and I was KO even with Deband and the highest Deband drink. I had to kill him without getting rammed, which I eventually did.

My Force is Lv54 and Techer Lv53. My Mag doesn't bring any defense but I did grind to 10 the full set of the Midia armor, so besides grinding my level to 70, I don't see what else I could do to improve my defense.

[LonelyGaruga]

Force and Techer are naturally fragile. Dying to one hit from Quartz Dragon's dash is pretty normal. Just a matter of learning not to get hit. You shouldn't worry about your defense much, offensive stats are simply much more important.

[Sizustar]

You're not supposed to get hit as a Fo/Te.
Mirage Dash makes getting hit almost impossible.

[Gama]

as TE/FI both capped, i'm hard do kill. if compared to a regular TE/FO or FO/TE.

i'm a melle te so i need to survive at close range.

but effort was put into that, my units and their afixes raise my Defense,hp, T atk,pp substancially, and my hp with hp drink and deband reaches 1350.

as a TE/FO or FO/TE you gotta learn how to dodge with the huge invincibility window mirage gives you.
learn to time it right, using regular teching classes means you need to have a strategy prior to the encounter, or youll be crushed.


get better units, and add afixes that give you hp. should make you more resiliant to hits if you fail to dodge.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Most players are just as fragile without investing into HP/survivability despite grinded, up-to-date units no matter the class. Pretty sure I can survive one ram only because I have stamina 3 on each of my units (915 HP total) as Hu/Br, but I don't make a habit of testing that; I just get out of the way, or abuse just guard.

[Alenoir]

Getting proper SH 10* units will reduce some damage. Putting an extra 150 HP into your units (Stamina III on all 3) will help you survive an extra hit or so. Generally though, as a FO/TE, you're not supposedly to get hit. At least, not more than once within a short period of time.

[Shadowth117]

In this game, you are very much meant to dodge things. This is why you don't have 3000 hp near cap without trying like you would in PSO or PSU. Its also why they try to ease you into it by giving you low level enemies at first that are significantly slower and less punishing than their lower level brethren.

Can you add stamina stuff to your units and weapon to help you out? Sure. Though I wouldn't actually recommend it personally since you can learn to live without it. Force right now is actually quite the powerhouse. Its punishing if you get hit, but that has to happen first. The durability on it is probably the biggest reason SEGA call it the advanced class of the three basic ones.

[gigawuts]

Force was pretty easy to level, honestly. Just get a handle for when to use what tech. Techs are more specialty-oriented than PAs are, which are a bit more versatile (this is good for this and this, that's good for that and that, etc.).

Also, get a handle on when to dodge.

That's it honestly. Right tech for the right job, and dodging. PP management is up there too. The rest you'll pick up as you play.

[the_importer_]

You're not supposed to get hit as a Fo/Te.
Mirage Dash makes getting hit almost impossible.

Sometimes, shit happens and you get hit.

[Rakurai]

I died. A lot.

It's easy enough to dodge stuff, but you can't afford to get hit at all when even normal enemies are capable of two hit killing you, coupled with stagger locking nonsense (Which is all too prevalent with the Harukotan enemies).

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I died. A lot.

It's easy enough to dodge stuff, but you can't afford to get hit at all when even normal enemies are capable of two hit killing you, coupled with stagger locking nonsense (Which is all too prevalent with the Harukotan enemies).

Which is why I like my ~900 hp. Just enough to survive some of the worst 2 piece combos from full HP, like predichada double, goldra spin kick->axe kick, chrome double claw. When SH came out, and I was using quartz/power3/ability3/power boost on the equest (http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%A8%E3%82%AF%E3%82%A8%E3%82%B9%E3% 83%95%E3%83%AA%E3%83%B3) XQ units, getting killed by a double was way too common, and I solo quest too much to let that happen.

As for zeshreda... let's not talk about zeshreda. I'm just happy I'm have the feeling (http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%95%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AB%E3% 83%95%E3%82%A7%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB) set now.

[Chdata]

I've never had problems as FoTe.

[the_importer_]

I've never had problems as FoTe.

Cause you are able to survive such a hit or cause you manage to never get hit?

BTW guys, I mostly play alone with CPUs, so I' always the main target of the enemies.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Cause you are able to survive such a hit or cause you manage to never get hit?

BTW guys, I mostly play alone with CPUs, so I' always the main target of the enemies.

You could always do what I did: set a minimum HP benchmark for yourself while keeping the damage stats it cuts into at a minimum. Just enough HP to make sure you don't die to things you get hit by consistently. For example, I got enough HP to survive most BS multi hits which happen often enough, not something silly like dragon ex's lazer which I never get hit by.

[Kamijou Touma]

i am a Force Braver >.> lvl 41 its not that bad you die sometimes but its not as if you could die from one hit

[GALEFORCE]

The main problem with quartz is that you'll be using namegid most likely, and Q just doesn't give you the time to charge it. You just have to know when you have the window to get it off or not. Its crystal spears also get super tracking when it's enraged, so sometimes it gets you when you think you can strafe them.

[ShinMaruku]

Quartz with fo/gu is funny as all hell.

But yeah you just have to focus on not getting 1 shot. But yes sometimes shit happens and you have to redo it. :(

[Totori]

Yep, first priority is not getting hit, and having a safe distance from you and the enemy. Next is just taking it down with it's weakness. It's not really all that bad, just remember not getting hit should be your first thought.

[UnLucky]

Quartz's double hitting takeoff kills pretty much anyone, but that's the easiest to avoid unless you're miraging way too early and into a corner while locked onto his nose which fucks the camera like nothing else

If you take damage, stay calm. You're honestly not much safer at full HP, so don't try to immediately heal up right there. Keep your distance and be a bit less greedy with canceling a charged tech and you should be fine.

[Terrence]

For those saying DEF is useless, I have to say I'm really glad when I see a FOrce/TEcher with 3000+ T-ATK but around 400 HP/DEF dying like a moron. In that case, I enjoy dropping (I said dropping, not using) a Moon Atomizer close to him : "Now grab it yourself, miserable shit". You're right when you say that ATK > DEF. But stop saying DEF is useless or "you aren't supposed to be hit, hihi" holy crap !

[Chdata]

Cause you are able to survive such a hit or cause you manage to never get hit?

BTW guys, I mostly play alone with CPUs, so I' always the main target of the enemies.

Because most things take two hits to kill me. If it takes two hits to kill me, it can almost never kill me because of resta.

If it takes one hit to kill me, I learn to dodge. Pretty hard to get hit with mirage escape.

One hit kill includes KO combos like gunne gam's multi-slash dash.

[Sizustar]

For those saying DEF is useless, I have to say I'm really glad when I see a FOrce/TEcher with 3000+ T-ATK but around 400 HP/DEF dying like a moron. In that case, I enjoy dropping (I said dropping, not using) a Moon Atomizer close to him : "Now grab it yourself, miserable shit". You're right when you say that ATK > DEF. But stop saying DEF is useless or "you aren't supposed to be hit, hihi" holy crap !

So what is your point?

[Chdata]

His point is that he's a jackass.

[NotRankin]

I play TE/BR atm, it wasn't that hard even with Wand Lovers step. However I also maxed the step advance in BR tree (nothing else to get) which makes dodging incredibly easy..

[UnLucky]

So what is your point?

I think he means that 700hp/1200def would still get the guy killed since bosses do 800-1000 damage anyway, or 400-500x2 in an unavoidable combo

[TehCubey]

So what is your point?


His point is that he's a jackass.

This.

I didn't have much trouble leveling Force up to SH. Normal enemies die pretty much instantly, bosses are a matter of keeping distance and using correct technics. They drop pretty quickly too.

Of course I used an extended (only level 1 but it suffices) +10 weapon, but before you can reliably get 10* equipment, who doesn't?

[Xaelouse]

Techer having the same HP as FO has always been an awful awful thing.
I hope the new deband skill kinda alleviated that problem somewhat?

[LonelyGaruga]

Sometimes, shit happens and you get hit.

Sufficient skill reduces the amount of times shit happens to negligible levels. Achieving that is relatively easy enough.


For those saying DEF is useless, I have to say I'm really glad when I see a FOrce/TEcher with 3000+ T-ATK but around 400 HP/DEF dying like a moron. In that case, I enjoy dropping (I said dropping, not using) a Moon Atomizer close to him : "Now grab it yourself, miserable shit". You're right when you say that ATK > DEF. But stop saying DEF is useless or "you aren't supposed to be hit, hihi" holy crap !

I have 510 base (not counting affixes or unit bonuses) HP as a 70/70 female Newman Te/Fi. My S-DEF is base 576, and my units bring that up to around 1200-1300 for each defense stat. I don't die very often. I die a lot less than everyone else around me, regardless of what class they play. The players you bring up are bad players and would die even if they had twice that HP because they're bad at not getting hit. It's a no brainer.


I think he means that 700hp/1200def would still get the guy killed since bosses do 800-1000 damage anyway, or 400-500x2 in an unavoidable combo

He's just a twit that thinks defense is useful because he met some bad players. He's saying HP and defense are actually useful and criticizing people for saying otherwise. Pretty much the opposite of this.


Techer having the same HP as FO has always been an awful awful thing.
I hope the new deband skill kinda alleviated that problem somewhat?

I always thought it was fine. Techer gets Resta. If it doesn't one-shot you, or you aren't combo'd to death, you're effectively immortal.

[Rien]

I did the whole leveling ordeal to SH during the period between il megid existing and the il megid nerf.

Needless to say it wasn't that hard.

[Sanguine2009]

Techer having the same HP as FO has always been an awful awful thing.
I hope the new deband skill kinda alleviated that problem somewhat?

it has somewhat, its definitely enough to make a difference on some previous 1 shot moves/combos. but as others have said, its better just to practice not getting hit(most of the time) in the first place.

[Rakurai]

I can survive two hits from bosses fairly consistently with Deband Toughness active, which gives me a little over 800 HP.

Perhaps that's the number I should aim for having without buffs.

[Chdata]

Here's an ancient secret:

Get 1 point in wand lovers if you use elysion.

Learn how to at least triple LA dash.

Dying, never again.

[LotusFX]

With mirage escape, I don't die by Quartz or other bosses unless I dodge too early or charging a tech which is almost full sometimes. It's all about timing.

[LonelyGaruga]

I can survive two hits from bosses fairly consistently with Deband Toughness active, which gives me a little over 800 HP.

Perhaps that's the number I should aim for having without buffs.

800 points of damage in two hits? What is hitting you? I'm barely two-shotted by most stuff that hits me with 530 HP.

[Chdata]

800 points of damage in two hits? What is hitting you? I'm barely two-shotted by most stuff that hits me with 530 HP.

most bosses hit me for like 400+ and most normal mobs hit me for 100-230.

[the_importer_]

By some of your answers, it sounds like more HP could help. How about if I put my last 10 points for get 50 HP in my force trees, think that would help?

[Rakurai]

Investing any amount of skill points in the HP up skills is a waste.

If you want more HP, just affix Stamina abilities to your gear.

[Rakurai]

800 points of damage in two hits? What is hitting you? I'm barely two-shotted by most stuff that hits me with 530 HP.

I guess most bosses don't hit that hard, but some like the Apos Dorios do (Namely, that double claw swipe it does).

[Gama]

Investing any amount of skill points in the HP up skills is a waste.

If you want more HP, just affix Stamina abilities to your gear.

this

my units have

Tech III T atk 30
Ragne Soul T atk 30 and 20 hp
Stamina III 50 hp



foly rear adds 40 hp
hexa arm adds 25 hp
foly leg adds 40 hp

afixes give 210 hp + 105 from the units themselves

315 extra hp, my hp without any boosts or deband is 900 "fi helps" but dont waste points in the tree with hp.

[Mesarthim]

By some of your answers, it sounds like more HP could help. How about if I put my last 10 points for get 50 HP in my force trees, think that would help?

Don't even think about it. When that skill came out (I never even looked at it in a simulator) I checked to see how much it gave, laughed, and used that SP on something good.

[LonelyGaruga]

most bosses hit me for like 400+ and most normal mobs hit me for 100-230.

Don't know why bosses are landing hits often enough to be a problem. Like yeah it sucks to get hit by them but that kind of falls into "shit happens" territory as far as I'm concerned. The mob damage sounds perfectly right, don't see it being a problem.


By some of your answers, it sounds like more HP could help. How about if I put my last 10 points for get 50 HP in my force trees, think that would help?

No. SP is way too valuable for that, and a 50 HP gain for 10 SP is a terrible investment even if HP was the most important stat in the game. At most, you should affix for Stamina. Doesn't the Midia set come with 105 HP by itself? That alone should bring you to 600+ HP at level cap, which should be enough, especially if you're using Deband Toughness.


I guess most bosses don't hit that hard, but some like the Apos Dorios do (Namely, that double claw swipe it does).

Yeah, Apos is the one boss I don't use Wand Lovers against normally (wait until it summons pillars). But Mirage Escape makes it pretty faceroll to avoid everything, so even if it 1 shots with every attack it shouldn't be an issue. Granted, I'm sitting back using Ilgrants and not wand whacking unless it's Panic'd, so I'm kinda cheating.

But seriously the question was more akin to "What are you doing getting hit by that" and not questioning what kind of bosses can do that much damage.

[landman]

I recognise I had problems, and had some frustrations of failed S ranks for COs and boss fights. What I did at the time was... multibox my second account, and have it on campship ready to come to the rescue with a moon lol

Recently I have changed my ragne set with 300+ HP affixes, with a new set of 50 PP + 115 HP. The other difference? around 100+ points of defense. Now Val Rodos charge does not kill me (around 650 HP), while it still killed me with the other units (970 HP). So I had the idea def was useless, but it is not.

[Laxedrane]

To answer the original question of weather or not it compares to earlier games. I feel more fragile in this game then the last to attacks that it doesn't make sense to one shot me.

However, I find this game way easier then previous ones because of dodge. Also because of how quickly bosses die compared to previous game.

It hasn't been mentioned yet, however have you put points into buffing your deband on your techer tree? Since I spent money to have multiple trees I don't have to spread my points so thin. However even if you only have one if you just put points into deband cut it's very worth it, the 15% reduction to all damage. It helps immensely with staying alive in super hard. Besides meant to be one shot hits, not even in mining base(Where enemies get flat damage bonuses on top of being boosted sometimes) can stuff one shot me. Again so long as it's not like Gwanahda nomming my face off.

So if you haven't already I put thought into that.

[Chdata]

For the record I wasn't saying bosses are hitting me enough to be a problem ;p

Whenever they DO happen to, that's usually how much it is.

[gigawuts]

Oh, some decent advice for helping you learn how to evade attacks is to learn their "deadzones" so to speak, or safe-ish areas.

Each boss has a selection of attacks it will use, correct? But these attacks only hit in certain areas, for so much damage, and inflict so much flinch/knockdown, and only after a given tell.

I'll use Quartz Dragon as an example here. Most of his moves either only hit close to him (horn sweeps), directly in front of him (charge), or have an easily read tell (homing missiles, grants rainbeams).

Like most bosses a safe place to be is behind him, but if you're soloing him that's not always an option. If it isn't, then staying out of range of his horn sweeps, at about 35-70 degrees to either side is also very safe - but ideally just close enough to trigger horn sweeps that won't hit you if you back up just a bit. This lets you strafe just a bit to avoid his charges, and buys you free time while he does attacks that you don't have to dodge because you're out of range.

Everything that can hit you in that area is easy to see coming; either he'll move his head to a side for a laser sweep or he'll raise everything up for homing missiles.

That area is a fairly safe place to be against most bosses, but it'll vary for each boss. One example is Org Blan, which I like to kite just outside of his fistpound range. Get close enough for him to use it, then take a few steps back to avoid the damage.

A lot of soloing in this game consists of baiting and switching attacks out of bosses. You kite ranges, hover in dead/safezones, etc.

[Kondibon]

Oh, some decent advice for helping you learn how to evade attacks is to learn their "deadzones" so to speak, or safe-ish areas.

Each boss has a selection of attacks it will use, correct? But these attacks only hit in certain areas, for so much damage, and inflict so much flinch/knockdown, and only after a given tell.

I'll use Quartz Dragon as an example here. Most of his moves either only hit close to him (horn sweeps), directly in front of him (charge), or have an easily read tell (homing missiles, grants rainbeams).

Like most bosses a safe place to be is behind him, but if you're soloing him that's not always an option. If it isn't, then staying out of range of his horn sweeps, at about 35-70 degrees to either side is also very safe - but ideally just close enough to trigger horn sweeps that won't hit you if you back up just a bit. This lets you strafe just a bit to avoid his charges, and buys you free time while he does attacks that you don't have to dodge because you're out of range.

Everything that can hit you in that area is easy to see coming; either he'll move his head to a side for a laser sweep or he'll raise everything up for homing missiles.

That area is a fairly safe place to be against most bosses, but it'll vary for each boss. One example is Org Blan, which I like to kite just outside of his fistpound range. Get close enough for him to use it, then take a few steps back to avoid the damage.

A lot of soloing in this game consists of baiting and switching attacks out of bosses. You kite ranges, hover in dead/safezones, etc. Adding to this, most bosses that use some sort of charge/rush attack try to track you, but if you move around in circles then they tend to aim off to the side in an attempt to aim where you were going rather than where you are, making it easier to side step them while still charging your techs. Chrome and the banthers are a good example of this.

[landman]

Is it just me or after Episode 3 Mirage scape gives you even more invulnerability? Maybe I have just been lucky in a few occasions of premature dodging followed by another dodge and being unharmed on a charge/storm.

[SakoHaruo]

Lag doesn't justify needing more HP and there isn't a single boss who has an attack that Force can't dodge. The main reason I get hit is because when I use an attack that cost 40 - 50 pp I want to use that attack instead of dodging out of the way. 9 times out of 10 That's why most Force users get hit. Like... against Cater tail, high accuracy projectiles, and ExDrag flip attack, there's a small gap between those attacks that allow you to continue using your attack, but sometimes I misjudge the spacing on them and get hit, and with my 500 HP I end up a dead Force. D:

Other than that, everything else dies before it can run at me in SH. I don't Zondeel much because it's too kawaii for me. twas scary. D:

[LonelyGaruga]

For the record I wasn't saying bosses are hitting me enough to be a problem ;p

Whenever they DO happen to, that's usually how much it is.

Oh yeah, I meant the other person, I understood it wasn't you.


A lot of soloing in this game consists of baiting and switching attacks out of bosses. You kite ranges, hover in dead/safezones, etc.

Pretty much this.

[Chdata]

Technically, it is so much harder to play Ranger if you can't just zerg the boss before it can move like Bellion does.

The thing gigawuts said about deadzones? It's useful for namegid and some other stuff. But otherwise mirage escape is really powerful.

But as a Ra all you have is dead zones and a really clunky dash. I have a friend who memorized where to stand during Dark Falz to not get hit by his arms, like these really small gaps in between all of them.

[xervah]

for solo-ing, most bosses are easy to read their attack pattern unless there's two of them at the same time (fang banchee and fang banther) which is... i really hate them much ._. (if you kill fang banchee a.s.a.p. before fang banther tag-in)

pretty much it's the easy way to read their attack pattern.

[Chdata]

fangs are easy, just gotta stun them by breaking parts and use long range techs properly.

[TaigaUC]

When I first levelled Force, everything was expensive as hell.
This was back when the game started.
I was poor and there weren't many options. I had to make do with whatever.

But I don't recall feeling that Force was difficult.
When I later tried other classes, I still felt Force was the easiest.
I remember trying to set up my other classes to use Force spells, for faster levelling.

I eventually switched to Gunner and Braver when they started dominating everything.
Now I play all classes on and off.
I'm not very patient with charging spells, so I kinda prefer other classes.
While Force is still pretty easy, they're also expensive to maximize.
I think casters are the only classes that have so many skill-based paths.
You can make a single generally effective skill tree for each of the other classes.

In SH, most players will die in 1-2 hits. So you're not supposed to get hit at all.
It's a matter of knowing the timing and being careful.
But sometimes stupid bullshit happens and you get screwed.
Like enemies teleporting or the camera being blocked by stupid crap.

[ShinMaruku]

fangs are easy, just gotta stun them by breaking parts and use long range techs properly.

Namegid. I killed 2 of the fucks chasing me like nuts with namegid only took 5 casts to kill one XD

[Ana-Chan]

While it's true that nothing beats being able to evade enemies, having a decent defence is good for those times when you do get hit to avoid being one hit killed.
These days it is also a lot easier to get your defence up to a pretty good.
My character is a Female Newman, currently Force level 60 with Techter (I will never accept Techer as the translated name since the kana is テクター or tekuta-) level 60 as the subclass.

My base defence is:
S-Def: 438
R-Def: 420
T-Def: 535

When fully equipped, my defence is (-> is with deband):
S-Def: 1374 -> 1469
R-Def: 1272 -> 1363
T-Def: 1407 -> 1527

I can normally handle two or three hits from regular mobs. So how did I manage to do this so easily? I just kept one of the unit sets from the matter board and currently have it crafter to extend level 5. If you can get the unit sets to extend level 10 then that will give you at least 1008 for S-Def, and 924 for R and T-Def. Since I'm still unlocking those recipes, extend level 5 is my highest. When I finally manage to get to 10, this should increase my equipped defence to:
S-Def: 1476
R-Def: 1374
T-Def: 1509

So with a bit of work it is easy to get your defence up. Since it is that easy, why wouldn't you?

Before any one gets picky, this isn't a post trying to diminish the usefulness of evasion. This is a post asking that since it is quite easy getting your defence up higher, then isn't it worth it for those times when you mess up?

[Aine]

Force's main damage tech in TD1/TD2 nowadays is Gifoie preceded by Zondeel, so you're bound to take a hit (unless you're using a talis). The saiki units are incredibly tough though, so it's not a problem.

[landman]

Not sure if it's the best thread, but yesterday I noticed... Loser still kills me a lot xd 50% are insta deaths I don't know where they come from, 30% are those orbs, I avoid one miraging, but the next hits exactly at the vulnerable time between mirages, and the other is hit/whatever/stun followed by burning floor (yeah, this attack has a safe zone, but I'm not always close to it). I usually use only sazan, but sometimes I approach it to use some zanverse, megiverse or resta.

[Cerebral Assassin]

SH?

Force?

Hard?

Its still easy mode for me.

[the_importer_]

SH?

Force?

Hard?

Its still easy mode for me.

Said the guy who joined the forum less than 2 months ago with 15 posts. Show me your skills in a video :p

[Cerebral Assassin]

Said the guy who joined the forum less than 2 months ago with 15 posts. Show me your skills in a video :p

I can't record on my PC.
I have been playing this game since last year so I don't see how post count relates to my time playing.