Anyone notice the new Just Guard potential gives 7x damage?

[Maenara]

Two new weapons have it:
10* Partizan: http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B6%E3%83%8F%E3%82%A4%E3% 83%B3%E3%83%89
10* Sword: http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%83%88%E3%83%A9%E3% 82%B9

Both are Braver equippable. Potential translated: I increase the power of the attack that occurs just when guard. ( 200% / 500% / 700% )

Non gibberish version: Increase the power of Just Guards by 200%/500%/700%.

Thoughts?

Edit: Increases power of Just Guards, not Just Counters.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWwip3dDuN0

[Hexxy]

Just Guards are really weak. I don't think I've seen one do more than maybe 500 damage. I'm sure it's higher now with the sorts of weapons people can get but nothing worth twinking out an entire weapon just for it.

Now if a katana comes out with that, and it affects Counter Wave, then we definitely have a keeper.

[Maenara]

I thought Just Counters were essentially the same as Just Attacks in terms of damage.

[Kondibon]

Pretty sure it increases the damage from the just guards them selves, not just counters.

In case it's not clear, the difference is, the just guard it's self reflects a portion of the damage you would have taken. A just counter is a JA after just guarding.

This sounds like it might be interesting to play with against enemies that deal really heavy single hits, but otherwise I don't see much use for it.

[Maenara]

Ah, I didn't know Just Guards dealt damage. I never noticed that when I played as Hunter, is that new?

[vaerix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWwip3dDuN0

But.. this is pretty significant. Different playstyle, for sure.

[Kondibon]

Ah, I didn't know Just Guards dealt damage. I never noticed that when I played as Hunter, is that new?
Nope, they always have. It's just not a lot since it's a portion of reflected damage unlike Katana's which is based off your s-atk.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWwip3dDuN0

But.. this is pretty significant. Different playstyle, for sure.
I wouldn't put it in meteorcudgle/guildmilla/elysion tier but that does seem pretty cool. If I were the type to bother with rares I would get it.

[Hexxy]

Edit: ok saw the video. Didn't know you could guard that high. In that case a boosted one would be pretty amazing.

Edit2: derp that IS the boosted one. man i'm dumb. it's cool i guess but i go back to thinking it's not really worth it.

[Kondibon]

I seem to be wrong about it reflecting damage though. :I

[Hexxy]

These are cheap on my ship so I'm just gonna grab one and see how it works on br/hu

[Kondibon]

It honestly seems like it'd be a good way to make up for how often you have to guard in a pure damage build, but I'm sure people won't care and will just stick with JA latents.

[Maenara]

Is it possible that Attack Advance increases Just Guard damage too? It increases the damage of Stylish Roll Arts, so it's possible. That'd be an additional 50%.

[Kondibon]

Attack advanced is strictly for normal attacks. Anything that's tied to a skill, a PA, or a different attack action (like the normal shift combo with jet boots or the twirl with daggers) doesn't count.

Also, who said it increases stylish roll arts? Any stylish roll attack I did didn't get the bonus, not even the normal ones, as far as I can tell.

EDIT: according to the s-wiki it improves the normal s-roll attacks, not s-roll arts.

[Maenara]

JP Wiki says it does, unless the Google Translatrix is a dirty liar (It usually is). It also says it works for Step Attacks except for wand step attacks.

[Kondibon]

JP Wiki says it does, unless the Google Translatrix is a dirty liar. It also says it works for Step Attacks except for wand step attacks.I just checked. See my last post.
I dunno. Maybe someone can go test it.

[Maenara]

All in all this seems like it could be fun to play around with. Hopefully Hexxy gets back to us soon so we know what it can do.

[LonelyGaruga]

JP Wiki says it does, unless the Google Translatrix is a dirty liar (It usually is). It also says it works for Step Attacks except for wand step attacks.

That's dumb.

Also this potential, the guy's hitting 21K on Ex's head after it breaks, though with Limit Break and Sacrifice Bite. Pity the guy in the video only used Just Guards, if they actually fought seriously to see how quickly the boss could be downed playing normally with this weapon it'd be easier to compare its damage with a standard damage buffing potential.

Chances are good they'll be getting Oceanid Hunter in the future anyway, being part of the pirate set, so no harm getting them (except maybe the Partisan, since the Facility trade-ins include one, hard to predict whether it'll be superior or not).

[Rien]

全ての武器で効果を発揮する。
Works with all weapons.
特に強化通常攻撃であるウォンドラバーズとシナジーが高く、たった5SPで威力が1.5倍になる破格のスキ ル。
High synergy with Wand Lovers normal attacks, allowing 1.5x damage with just 5 sp.
ステップアタックにも効果あり。
Works with step attack.
スタイリッシュロール中の通常攻撃にも効果がある。
Works with normal click during stylish roll.
コンバットフィニッシュ、カウンターエッジの衝撃波、スナッチステップには乗らない。これらはスキル攻撃と して判定されている模様。
Does not work with Combat Finish, Counter Edge's flying wave, or snatch step. These are learned skill based attacks.
他にも、ウォンドギアの法撃爆発やウォンドラバーズ使用中のウォンドステップアタック、Sロールアーツ、ダ ブルセイバーギア（かまいたち）、デュアルブレードギア（フォトンブレード）等も適用されない 。
In addition, does not work with wand gear's technic-type explosions, wand lover's step attack, S Roll Arts (rightclick during stylish roll), double saber gear (whirlwind) or dual blade gear (photon blade)
おそらく、ギアやスキルを習得して初めて使用可能になる攻撃は適用外だと推測される。
Most likely, it only works on anything you can use without spending skill points.

The last statement makes me think it works on JG.

[Sayara]

Dude that is hillarious. I love shit like this.

[Walkure]

おそらく、ギアやスキルを習得して初めて使用可能になる攻撃は適用外だと推測される。
Most likely, it only works on anything you can use without spending skill points.

The last statement makes me think it works on JG.But Just Guard required points before, and you still can't use it without HU tree. That probably doesn't work as a rule of thumb, here.

Edit: 380 Just Guarding an Oodan's attack on HU/BR, 390 on HU/FI, didn't bother recording crits because a 50% damage mod should be evident regardless of rare weapon variance.

[Maenara]

But Just Guard required points before, and you still can't use it without HU tree. That probably doesn't work as a rule of thumb, here.

Attack Advance didn't exist when Just Guard required points. Either way, there's only one way to find out for sure.

[Rien]

But Just Guard required points before, and you still can't use it without HU tree. That probably doesn't work as a rule of thumb, here.

Edit: 380 Just Guarding an Oodan's attack on HU/BR, 390 on HU/FI, didn't bother recording crits because a 50% damage mod should be evident regardless of rare weapon variance.

Stances or no?

[Walkure]

Yeah, I editted my post with basic testing. Invested in Attack Advance on BR, and Just Guarded some Forest Exploration mobs on HU/FI and HU/BR. There's no apparent 50% mod.


Stances or no?
Of course not. Why would I bother using stances for this?

While I'm at it:

Also this potential, the guy's hitting 21K on Ex's head after it breaks, though with Limit Break and Sacrifice Bite. Pity the guy in the video only used Just Guards, if they actually fought seriously to see how quickly the boss could be downed playing normally with this weapon it'd be easier to compare its damage with a standard damage buffing potential.
It wouldn't be too hard to compare it roughly on paper.

Damage needed to kill mob = Regular damage + Just Guard damage
Comparing to a Bio weapon, where regular damage is increased by 1.08 but Just Guard doesn't count (or does it? never cared to check)
Just Guard Damage * 800% >= Regular Damage * 108%
Just Guard Damage >= Regular Damage * 13.5%

Considering most quick runs of EX Dragon involve breaking his face and then headlocking the poor bastard, I kinda doubt that 13.5% of your overall damage would be coming from Just Guards.

[Rien]

Sacrifice bite and rising edge (easy to jg out of) + this latent would easily make quick work of dragon ex, but the problem is how you don't get so many easy opportunities to JG anywhere else.

[Chdata]

wow amazing you can do like 5000-6000 damage but only when the boss attacks and you counter it

instead of using PAs and doing real damage

[Kondibon]

wow amazing you can do like 5000-6000 damage but only when the boss attacks and you counter it

instead of using PAs and doing real damagePretty sure most people JG at some point anyway, but as I and other people have pointed out, this probably won't be good for actual efficiency.

[Chdata]

I figure someone would've said the same thing as me by now but I didn't feel like reading every post in the thread oro



what if this skill increase JA damage to 700% for 30 seconds after a just guar loll0l0l0l there's the new sroll JA

[Maenara]

wow amazing you can do like 5000-6000 damage but only when the boss attacks and you counter it

instead of using PAs and doing real damage

*20k.

[Kondibon]

It's worth mentioning that dragon bosses have really high resistance on most parts before they're broken, but that still doesn't move this out of gimmick territory.

It's a COOL gimmick though.


*20k.Conversely.... those hits were on a weak point.

The only straight damage he did was to the wings, which was around 8k.

[horseship]

what if this skill increase JA damage to 700% for 30 seconds after a just guar loll0l0l0l there's the new sroll JA

That's essentially what katana gear already does except for the 700% part.

[Hexxy]

Ok so here's what I've discovered.

1) Just Guard is affected by:
- Stances (I tried with Fury, Avg, Brave, and combinations of these)
- Weak Points (see below)

2) Just Guard is not affected by:
- The damage received (I was doing the same JG damage regardless of whether an attack hits me for 200 or 800
- Attack Advance
~2500 satk HU/FI Brave Stance Only: http://i.imgur.com/cKVjTd0.png
~2360 satk BR/HU Avg Stance Only: http://i.imgur.com/NGkRbeK.png

If Attack Advance affected it, BR/HU would certainly be higher.

3) I'm not sure:
- Satk: My HU/FI has more satk than my BR/HU, but the stance combination is stronger as well so I'm not sure exactly how satk factors into it.

Screens:

HU/FI
Satk: http://i.imgur.com/MsKRsy8.png
No Stances: http://i.imgur.com/NBfmgw6.png
Fury: http://i.imgur.com/8CzgGQh.png
Fury/Brave: http://i.imgur.com/sgUNyNJ.png
Fury/Brave + Weak Point (Jump + JG near face): http://i.imgur.com/QAAb0hG.png

BR/HU (~2360 satk. Ignore the fact it's Rogbelt, was getting the same numbers on Rockbear)
Fury/Avg: http://i.imgur.com/tHFo9C3.png
Fury/Avg + Weak Point: http://i.imgur.com/TG5gxUr.png

For comparison, this is what you can do with Katana Counter + Counter Wave (2 hits). This is with 3800 satk though so your results may (will) vary.
Normal: http://i.imgur.com/eHI1FFa.jpg
Weak Point: http://i.imgur.com/AiSno8l.jpg

[Maenara]

So the verdict is, if this potential ends up on a katana it will be exceedingly amazing, but otherwise is just a neat gimmick?

[Hexxy]

I don't think it will ever show up on a katana. At least not in a 700% form.

I wouldn't say its just a fun gimmick. If you can weave the guards into your attacks its definitely better than stepping. You also don't lose your position. You really would have to hit weak points. But its a free pa basically.

[Kondibon]

I don't think it will ever show up on a katana. At least not in a 700% form.

I wouldn't say its just a fun gimmick. If you can weave the guards into your attacks its definitely better than stepping. You also don't lose your position. You really would have to hit weak points. But its a free pa basically.I think the problem is the fact that most end game players stunlock bosses so it's not going to be used as much outside of really specific situations.

[Xaelouse]

Only bosses aggressive enough to allow this are banthers, quartz, dragon ex.
You have to compare someone fighting them normally with the JG sword vs. someone just using a native killer weapon for 20% damage.

[Maenara]

Ultimately the issue here is that we can stunlock everything into submission or kill it before it can do anything, rendering 75% of character development obsolete and irrelevant.