This games Shifta/deband is the worst i have seen.

[Scyris]

Not only does shfita/deband ignore armor and weapons and gear, they also had to make it annoying as fuck to actually use, I mean its pretty stupid how u have to cast it then sit in all the ticks, and its not like u can stand there charge shifta, then charge and cast deband while shifta is going on, it cancels it. Is there anyway to make it apply the full buff with 1 tick? because these 2 spells are horribly implemented, I spend more time buffing myself than I do killing the stuff on my main, Only lv 30 ish atm, but these 2 spells are reallly grating on my nerves with the time I need to waste to recast it so often and then have to stand there like an idiot for all 4 or 5 ticks, then do the same thing 2 more times, then I need to repeat this with deband if I want a full buff.

Halp please, I know these spells are awesome later but for now they seem to just be an annoyence. Also I am a Fo/te and its still pretty bad.

Also when a skill says +100% damage like most level 1 +damage skills do, does it add 100% to the base power? or does it really do 0 with that first skill point?

[Rien]

You can if you're part fighter and use the adrenaline skill or are techer main

[Ezodagrom]

Also I am a Fo/te and its still pretty bad.
Techer has a skill that make shifta and deband more bearable to use, but that skill require techer to be the main class, it makes it so each tick gives 45 seconds instead of just 15.

[Arksenth]

Just leave the buffing to the TEs in your party. They have a skill that increases the time limit of buffs and increases the time granted per tick, plus unless you have Shifta Strike, Deband Toughness and possibly Deband Cut, Shifta and Deband offer only meager bonuses.

You can also craft your Shifta and Deband recipes so they tick faster.

[Scyris]

Ahh I am talking in regards to soloing. Its pretty annoying heh.

[final_attack]

You can also cast Shifta / deband in-between your spam ..... or as part of combo. Just to maintain them, of course. No need to keep them at maxed time all the time.
Craft it for another tick helps a lot though.

[Arksenth]

Ahh I am talking in regards to soloing. Its pretty annoying heh.

Shifta without a TE main gives so little damage that it's not even worth the PP.

Ditto for Deband.

[Schrodinger]

Yeah Shifta/Deband are terrible in this game unless you're a Techer who's invested heavily in their respective trees. Probably the worst Shifta/Deband in the history of Phantasy Star, maybe even with the Techer buffs. On the bright side, at least techniques are affected by shifta this time around.

[Edson Drake]

It helps. You'll notice an improvement from big 6-digit techs though. I still cast for the whole 3 minutes and re-cast just before a boss fight. No big deal.

[Punisher106]

I'l admit, S/D is a bit... lackluster, in PSO2. The damage augmentation is minimal, at best, and you're only able to benefit from it from the Jet Boot PA casts. Include its relatively short buff time, and, well...

Didn't S/D last for like several minutes in past PS games? I remember using S/D in PSO1, and cleared nearly all of a block of Ruins before having to cast, again. And in PSU, it lasted even longer.

[landman]

As a FO/TE I'm glad S&D are not as good as in previous games, this way no one expects me to buff them. In PSU this was ridiculous, casting 5 different buff techs... and the game was already extremely easy...

[Laxedrane]

I'l admit, S/D is a bit... lackluster, in PSO2. The damage augmentation is minimal, at best, and you're only able to benefit from it from the Jet Boot PA casts. Include its relatively short buff time, and, well...

Didn't S/D last for like several minutes in past PS games? I remember using S/D in PSO1, and cleared nearly all of a block of Ruins before having to cast, again. And in PSU, it lasted even longer.

They lasted way longer in past games. And had HUGE ranges under certain conditions. In pso1 range extender weapons like madams umbrella or being a class that had 2x range naturally. Combine those two and besides boss rooms and a handful of special rooms you could buff everyone by just standing in the center. The boost had a great modifier in terms of numbers but I don't remember them being a HUGE game changer unless coupled with Jellen and Zalure.

In psu they lasted not as long but were definitely more noticeable. To the point that, that's when they first introduced meds to give non casters buffs. Range was about the same at level 50 as a Fomarl without weapon extending range.

in pso2 I would say it's a little apples and oranges. in PSO1 there's no comparison.. Shifta was purely for Attack. No bonus to MST which always irritated me and no bonus to whatever magic defense was.. I forget. Better for every class but sucks for forces. Compared to psu there were better however not only was shifta and deband of pso2 separated into 3 different buffs(4th one doesn't apply to pso2) and debuffs. But each one had to be leveled separately in the most mind numbingly obnoxious way.

So at the end of the day I would take PSO2 version of shifta and deband as a force. I kind of adjusted to not really having buffs on my none casting jobs it's just a different game. It sucks that you have to have techer mained to get the most out of it, Bouncer subbed to get the absolutely best or just have either subbed to make it possibly worth casting.

[Darki]

PSU buffs were a pain in the ass because you had seven (counting the 4 main buffs, Gigrants, Dizas and Rentis), but they lasted 5 minutes by default, and also importantly, you did have a visual cue on your character that helped keeping track of them easily (call me scatterbrained, but I always forget to recast my buffs because I never notice I ran out of them, I almost never look at my character's health bar).

Honestly, if only they laster 5 minutes each that would make anything bearable here, even having to wait for the 4 tics.

[Schrodinger]

PSU buffs were a pain in the ass because you had seven (counting the 4 main buffs, Gigrants, Dizas and Rentis), but they lasted 5 minutes by default, and also importantly, you did have a visual cue on your character that helped keeping track of them easily (call me scatterbrained, but I always forget to recast my buffs because I never notice I ran out of them, I almost never look at my character's health bar).

Honestly, if only they laster 5 minutes each that would make anything bearable here, even having to wait for the 4 tics.
Yeah I really miss the aura that buffs gave you. I wish the icons for buffs had timers on them at least, but Sega be too lazy. It's a pain to have to go to the options and character info just to see how long certain buffs have left.

[Gama]

when i solo as te/fi
i just use them uncharged

[LonelyGaruga]

Techer is the only class Shifta/Deband are useful for. They suck for every other class that can use them.

Hence the thread.

[UnLucky]

Hey, Shiftarides are like better cakes for nontech classes. That's totally not useless at all.

[Omega-z]

^ JP PSU had for Support:

Shifta, Deband, Zodial, Rentis, - Basic Buff Techics for ATP/DFP/ATA/TP 2 secs each.

Megistar - Adv. version to the basic four does all of them for half the time ( 4 secs. ) for taking damage for 8 secs.

Jellen, Zalure, Zoldeel ( 2 secs. ), Grants (3 secs.) - The four Debuffs

Resta, Reverser (acted like Anti )(2 secs.), Giresta (acted like Reverser, Resta with an HP regain that also Stacked for 10~16 ticks over your HP) (5 secs.), Megiverse (sucked HP from enemies) (3 secs.)

Rentis, Dizas, Foverse - the Three Barrier Buffs (3 secs.)

At the end It was Megistar for Solo (the other 4 were used in parties only), Giresta, and the Barrier Techic's. The Barrier Tech's lasted more then 5 mins since they were based on hits and the other techics were casted before rooms or Boss rooms not that big of a deal really.

[the_importer_]

Even with Techer as a subclass, you can cast each of them S&D times and it will last 3 minutes. In a team of 4, that can last you for half a floor.

[Kondibon]

Even with Techer as a subclass, you can cast each of them S&D times and it will last 3 minutes. In a team of 4, that can last you for half a floor.But that requires everyone to stop longer!
http://i.imgur.com/8x52d1L.gif

[Terrence]

I'm happy that S/D is not that good if you don't take TEchter as your main Class (same goes for the future Reverser Field).
I'm TEchter/BOuncer and my great S/D (using MY BUILD (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08BnbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkb3Ik bCfbCIE6dodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006do000 000lo00000006dBdAIKIdrArBJ2qBik000009bIo000000fdoI b4NfqBfqsbsikJk0000j)) always gets warm thanks from other players. And it is pretty useful.

[Gama]

some people dont like being a support class. clearly.

honestly i like supporting , and that dosent stop me from doing good damage.

[Kondibon]

I think you guys are confused. People aren't just complaining about their effectiveness, but their general usability without techer skills. Techer adding extra utility and buffing them is fine, but they're almost unusable when you aren't main techer to the point that most people IGNORE them even when you ARE techer.

[Terrence]

(...) MOST people IGNORE them even when you ARE techer.
DUMB people IGNORE them even when you ARE TEchter. If they think +250 ATK, +10% DMG dealt, +20% CRIT, -25% DMG received and +25% HP (active forever if you're playing with a good TEchter) isn't valuable, we cannot do anything for those poor souls.
That being said, I understand what you're saying. Without the TEchter boosts, S/D has a really limited effectivness. But you can upgrade S/D with the crafting system and you can keep it on for your party almost forever for 0 PP if you're playing JB BOuncer. So...

[Dragon_Knight]

I have never seen someone stop for buffs in this game. In PSO and PSU if I was playing force that day everyone STOPPED and reminded me to buff if I let the stuff expire, but here I never even bother doing that on myself lest I fall behind. I haven't done actual number crunching as far as techer/nontecher S/D goes but it never seems worth very much maybe a couple hundred points here and there.

[Kondibon]

DUMB people IGNORE them even when you ARE TEchter. If they think +250 ATK, +10% DMG dealt, +20% CRIT, -25% DMG received and +25% HP (active forever if you're playing with a good TEchter) isn't valuable, we cannot do anything for those poor souls.
That being said, I understand what you're saying. Without the TEchter boosts, S/D has a really limited effectivness. But you can upgrade S/D with the crafting system and you can keep it on for your party almost forever for 0 PP if you're playing JB BOuncer. So...Pretty sure JB bouncer is supposed to be a support thing too. It just bothers me that certain things and mechanics that can be used by multiple classes border on useless unless you're a specific class. I feel the same way about rifles on gunner for instance.


I have never seen someone stop for buffs in this game. In PSO and PSU if I was playing force that day everyone STOPPED and reminded me to buff if I let the stuff expire, but here I never even bother doing that on myself lest I fall behind. I haven't done actual number crunching as far as techer/nontecher S/D goes but it never seems worth very much maybe a couple hundred points here and there.S/D with techer main are REALLY good. Deband toughness and Deband cut have saved my ass multiple times. Shifta strike is +10% damage to everyone! This is HUGE, especially if you combine it with Zanverse. The thing is, the way the game is designed, support techs aren't NEEDED, and thus people would rather not stop. Is is a really hard thing to balance without making it almost required.

[LonelyGaruga]

Even with Techer as a subclass, you can cast each of them S&D times and it will last 3 minutes. In a team of 4, that can last you for half a floor.

And you lose Shifta Strike, Deband Toughness, and Long Time Assist, which are what make Shifta/Deband useful as a Techer in the first place.


some people dont like being a support class. clearly.

honestly i like supporting , and that dosent stop me from doing good damage.

Support is a secondary function. Don't pretend it's a primary function.


DUMB people IGNORE them even when you ARE TEchter. If they think +250 ATK, +10% DMG dealt, +20% CRIT, -25% DMG received and +25% HP (active forever if you're playing with a good TEchter) isn't valuable, we cannot do anything for those poor souls.
That being said, I understand what you're saying. Without the TEchter boosts, S/D has a really limited effectivness. But you can upgrade S/D with the crafting system and you can keep it on for your party almost forever for 0 PP if you're playing JB BOuncer. So...

If a Techer maxed out all of the Shifta/Deband skills they're pretty much trash for doing so. That's 50 SP, and only 5-10 of it is actually useful. Getting Long Time Assist, Territory Burst, Wand Gear/Lovers/Reactor, and Super Treatment puts you at a total expense of 72 PP. Can't even max EWH doing that.

In practice, 22 SP at the very most into Shifta/Deband skills. Otherwise you're gimping yourself.

By the way, Deband Cut is only 15%, not 25%. And good luck supporting everyone in TD or most EQs in general. A single party, sure, that's easy if you're a Techer, 45s ticks are pretty easy to maintain. But an entire 11 other players, who are everywhere else? Good luck.

[Kondibon]

In practice, 22 SP at the very most into Shifta/Deband skills. Otherwise you're gimping yourself. Pretty sure you can manage 30 and still have a functional build. And if you're a melee techer you have a free 10 points from not taking pp restorate. I mean, unless you're saying the extra bit of utility, survivability, and convenience isn't worth the slight loss of personal damage. But by that logic anyone subbing hunter is gimping them selves too because fighter has higher potential damage.

EDIT: Also, about TD thing, other forces and techers can refresh your buffs without writing over them, and even if they couldn't I would imagine an organized team doing TD could group up between waves and get back into position before the next wave starts.

[LonelyGaruga]

PP Restorate is still useful as a melee Techer. Melee Techers use techs and subclass weapons. It's better than 10 SP in Shifta Critical or 5 each in the Advance skills.

Though yeah, maxing Deband Cut is an option, you should never max out the Advance skills or put more than 1 point in Shifta Critical. It's a waste.

How many players run organized TDs, and of those, how many are made more efficient by getting every single player to gather around the Force and Techer players of the party instead of gathering crystals? Seems like a complete waste of time, and is completely unreliable with random runs, which the vast majority of players would be doing. Also, if a buff does wear off, you specifically need a Techer main to be able to reapply Shifta Strike and Deband Toughness. And any Force or Bouncer players in the MPA are going to have a hard time upkeeping buffs with their puny 15s ticks.

In other words, this strategy is only viable with 3-4 Techer mains. Which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it doesn't seem very likely to happen, certainly not consistently.

[UnLucky]

DUMB people IGNORE them even when you ARE TEchter. If they think +250 ATK, +10% DMG dealt, +20% CRIT, -25% DMG received and +25% HP (active forever if you're playing with a good TEchter) isn't valuable, we cannot do anything for those poor souls.
That being said, I understand what you're saying. Without the TEchter boosts, S/D has a really limited effectivness. But you can upgrade S/D with the crafting system and you can keep it on for your party almost forever for 0 PP if you're playing JB BOuncer. So...
Oh, what's that? You mean you don't want +76% DMG dealt, -28% DMG received (-15% tech, same as Techer), and higher base ATK and HP for subbing Hunter instead? (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?082IbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk 0jdodBIbl2IoiNjHSJksNI2000000doIn0000008doib000000 6do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000fdoIb000000 f)

Completely passively without wasting time or palette space.

some people dont like being a support class. clearly.

honestly i like supporting , and that dosent stop me from doing good damage.
I honestly would love to support, and it was one of the reasons why I started playing Force, but it's just not feasible or effective.

[Selphea]

Weak Bullet and oneshotting bosses = best support evar.

[wefwq]

Weak Bullet and oneshotting bosses = best support evar.
They're basically double everyone's damage, so it's better than shifta or deband, and no one will get left behind only because out of cast range.

[Scyris]

Dumb question which class has weak bullet? Edit: nevermind I found it. Would a basic ranger build go like this? http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0 jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doboIbIddxIbIbcAfqKJfk0 0008do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000fdoIb000 000f Also how long does weak bullet last?

[Sizustar]

Dumb question which class has weak bullet? Edit: nevermind I found it. Would a basic ranger build go like this? http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0 jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doboIbIddxIbIbcAfqKJfk0 0008do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000fdoIb000 000f Also how long does weak bullet last?

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221527

[TehCubey]

Dumb question which class has weak bullet? Edit: nevermind I found it. Would a basic ranger build go like this? http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08fbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk0 jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doboIbIddxIbIbcAfqKJfk0 0008do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000fdoIb000 000f Also how long does weak bullet last?

I'll admit, I did not play ranger recently so I'm only parroting what other people said + common PSO2 sense:

This build is decent but it could stand improvement. Tool Mastery is unnecessary because traps don't deal a lot of damage. Tactics Trap on the other hand means you have no problem with PP so it's worth looking into. Most rangers use stun grenade or gravity bomb for utility + full PP regen with Tactics Trap.

Also worth looking into are First Hit (not too good on bosses but great on mobs) and Killing Bonus.

Power Bullet doesn't seem worth the skill points, really.

[Schubalts]

Oh, what's that? You mean you don't want +76% DMG dealt, -28% DMG received (-15% tech, same as Techer), and higher base ATK and HP for subbing Hunter instead? (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?082IbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk 0jdodBIbl2IoiNjHSJksNI2000000doIn0000008doib000000 6do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000fdoIb000000 f)

Completely passively without wasting time or palette space.



You don't get all of those bonuses to S/D with a Techer sub, and the Techer's S/D would stack with your totally awesome Hunter sub's bonuses if you sat still for like 5 seconds every 3 minutes, so...?

[Kondibon]

PP Restorate is still useful as a melee Techer. Melee Techers use techs and subclass weapons. It's better than 10 SP in Shifta Critical or 5 each in the Advance skills.
Though yeah, maxing Deband Cut is an option, you should never max out the Advance skills or put more than 1 point in Shifta Critical. It's a waste.
I never said anything about maxing all the skills, just that 30 points makes more sense than 22 (where did you even get that number from?) It's not perfect, but I wouldn't consider this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08bnbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk 0jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006do000000lo0 0000006dBdAidrBqxGFdBsTIk000009bIo000000fdoIb00000 0f) a "gimped" build (though it's also not pure support)



In other words, this strategy is only viable with 3-4 Techer mains. Which isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it doesn't seem very likely to happen, certainly not consistently.Well yeah, that's why I said in organized groups.
The whole idea of support is to give a large boost to overal group damage output and survivability in exchange for having less personal dps and survivability, which techer can DO, the setup is just too annoying for most people to bother, which I never disagreed with.


Oh, what's that? You mean you don't want +76% DMG dealt, -28% DMG received (-15% tech, same as Techer), and higher base ATK and HP for subbing Hunter instead? (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?082IbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk 0jdodBIbl2IoiNjHSJksNI2000000doIn0000008doib000000 6do000000lo00000007oIn0000000lbIo000000fdoIb000000 f)

Completely passively without wasting time or palette space.


You don't get all of those bonuses to S/D with a Techer sub, and the Techer's S/D would stack with your totally awesome Hunter sub's bonuses if you sat still for like 5 seconds every 3 minutes, so...?

Both of you are talking about entirely different things from that conversation... Terrance and I were talking about other people ignoring buffs when techers use them.

[LonelyGaruga]

I never said anything about maxing all the skills, just that 30 points makes more sense than 22 (where did you even get that number from?) It's not perfect, but I wouldn't consider this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?08bnbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIkbsIk 0jdodBIb00000000jdoIn0000008doib0000006do000000lo0 0000006dBdAidrBqxGFdBsTIk000009bIo000000fdoIb00000 0f) a "gimped" build (though it's also not pure support)


Well yeah, that's why I said in organized groups.
The whole idea of support is to give a large boost to overal group damage output and survivability in exchange for having less personal dps and survivability, which techer can DO, the setup is just too annoying for most people to bother, which I never disagreed with.

5 in Shifta Advance
1 in Shifta Critical
5 in Shifta Strike
5 in Deband Advance
1 in Deband Cut
5 in Deband Toughness

22. 31 with max Deband Cut, which I guess is OK, but you might as well dump Shifta Critical if you're putting that many points in Deband Cut, Shifta Critical is just filler, so that makes 30. Which I said was OK when you pointed out maxed Deband Cut is a thing. But in practice, it really isn't going to be taken advantage of for 90%+ of people playing, so the only reason to max it out would be Te/Hu.

There are still a lot of issues with trying to run an organized group, especially for every single player lacking access to an organized group, and it does nothing to change that it's pretty inconvenient and requires at least three of the people in the organized group to play Techer. It doesn't necessarily speed the run up compared to gathering crystals or positioning in key areas of the map, so if it doesn't, then the whole thing is moot. Being annoying and impractical is a big issue here if it slows down the run.

In other words, there is no reason to bother being more support than is useful to yourself. Most support skills a solo Techer would use are already skills that would immensely benefit the entire party, so why put more SP than you need in? At that point, your SP would be better placed elsewhere.

[Kondibon]

5 in Shifta Advance
1 in Shifta Critical
5 in Shifta Strike
5 in Deband Advance
1 in Deband Cut
5 in Deband Toughness

22. 31 with max Deband Cut, which I guess is OK, but you might as well dump Shifta Critical if you're putting that many points in Deband Cut, Shifta Critical is just filler, so that makes 30. Which I said was OK when you pointed out maxed Deband Cut is a thing. But in practice, it really isn't going to be taken advantage of for 90%+ of people playing, so the only reason to max it out would be Te/Hu.

There are still a lot of issues with trying to run an organized group, especially for every single player lacking access to an organized group, and it does nothing to change that it's pretty inconvenient and requires at least three of the people in the organized group to play Techer. It doesn't necessarily speed the run up compared to gathering crystals or positioning in key areas of the map, so if it doesn't, then the whole thing is moot. Being annoying and impractical is a big issue here if it slows down the run.

In other words, there is no reason to bother being more support than is useful to yourself. Most support skills a solo Techer would use are already skills that would immensely benefit the entire party, so why put more SP than you need in? At that point, your SP would be better placed elsewhere.http://i.imgur.com/vTAvvce.gif

[Zorafim]

Hi I didn't read the topic.

Back when I was playing, I did some quick math. I think I figured shifta was about a 10% boost in damage? But, because of its short duration and its long cast, you would have to spend 10% of your time casting it. So at best, you're breaking even.

[ShinMaruku]

I just say whoever made the skill tree was a idiot. When Blizzard dropped it they should have learned. But nope. :P

[Kondibon]

Hi I didn't read the topic.

Back when I was playing, I did some quick math. I think I figured shifta was about a 10% boost in damage? But, because of its short duration and its long cast, you would have to spend 10% of your time casting it. So at best, you're breaking even.That's why you have to cast it on multiple people.


I just say whoever made the skill tree was a idiot. When Blizzard dropped it they should have learned. But nope. :PThe tree is fine, it's the skills themselves that are bad.

[ShinMaruku]

That's why there should be no tree. They should do as Blizzard did. When you make a tree a certain size you will have some bad skills. Also when you have a system like pso2 some skills in the traditional set will be even worse. Make shit baseline and make skills and tech/pa crafting be the differentiator with gear.

[Kondibon]

That's why there should be no tree. They should do as Blizzard did. When you make a tree a certain size you will have some bad skills. Also when you have a system like pso2 some skills in the traditional set will be even worse. Make shit baseline and make skills and tech/pa crafting be the differentiator with gear.That won't stop crits from being bad.

[ShinMaruku]

Crits are shit with or without the tree. But allowing more points of failure is kind of suspect.

[Achelousaurus]

IMO the problem is sd lasting 3 minutes instead of 15 minutes. Te must spend a lot of time to cast and recast instead of doing other stuff.
And cause of low aoe must run around to apply to more than 3 people and even then you can count yourself lucky if you get 6/12 cause peolpe are so far spread if you really wanted to apply sd to the majority like 10/12 you would literally have nothing else you could do cause it would take so long to move between them.

It's cause of Sega's massive raging boner for burst damage, can't have anything that doesn't require immediate attention anymore. And to "balance", the burst dmg multipliers are massive (so anything but 20% dmg boost shifta would be obscene ontop of WB).

Also, in MPAs stuff dies fast so people don't wait up for a small boost when they could be killing stuff instead.
Not mention no one wants to wait and miss the mpa death train, lag behind and possibly be out of range of exp and items.

[LonelyGaruga]

Techer Shifta/Deband is easy to apply, it's just upkeeping it on everyone in the MPA for the entire quest that isn't easy. 3-4 people in non-TD EQs or ordinary parties is easy enough and should be enough to make them worthwhile, given that it's one player managing those buffs. Just cast Shifta or Deband whenever all the spawns die and it should never wear off on those people.

Non-Techer Shifta/Deband still sucks, but Techer does it just fine. There's nothing that really warrants claiming "This is a problem" to me, unless you're specifically talking about Force/Bouncer Shifta/Deband.

[UnLucky]

Applying buffs is difficult when positioning is subjective and visually running through the entire length of an active field can leave you with nothing at all. Same thing with Resta, by the time you see it being cast, you can run over to where it appears to be coming from on your end yet not get healed despite seeing the last few ticks on your screen.

Upkeep is simple enough. Just use a Shiftaride. If you were somehow made aware that you had Shifta Strike on, a simple consumable that every class has access to can keep it going forever.

[LonelyGaruga]

I dunno, I'm seeing at least two ticks on a person most of the time, a minute and a half per cast is pretty good if you use Shifta or Deband at the end of every spawn or every once in a while against Elder/Loser.

Didn't know Shiftaride/Debandride applied to everyone on the map. Literally never used it. Was wondering where those random Shifta/Deband effects were coming from. Pretty useful thing to keep in mind.

[UnLucky]

Nah, everyone else would have to use them on themselves. It's just a charged lv1 Shifta without TB.

[LonelyGaruga]

Well then they're useless. It's 15s per tick on Shiftaride/Debandride right? That's only enough to extend it for 5 minutes. Unless you restock whenever you run out...but why would you do that?

[UnLucky]

Main Techers should be dropping them on the ground for everyone else.

I mean, they are a support class right?

[Walkure]

19.5% extra base ATK on it's own can be around 200ish extra TATK on a FO. Even if that's only a 6-7% increase that's still worth throwing on at least yourself during any downtime or lull. Or right before/after PPC/Ketos especially to start off actual damage with a JA. Especially on a fire build, where you take all of one second to fire it off.

Applying buffs is difficult when positioning is subjective and visually running through the entire length of an active field can leave you with nothing at all. Same thing with Resta, by the time you see it being cast, you can run over to where it appears to be coming from on your end yet not get healed despite seeing the last few ticks on your screen.You have to be in the field on caster's screen during the tic to actually receive the buff tic. Due to latency the field on your screen may not even be where they actually casted it on their screen.

[UnLucky]

On my Psycho Wand I slot Shifta as the regular left click because who needs PP, right?

So good for Tech Arts JA, too

[Zorafim]

That's why you have to cast it on multiple people.

Surely I don't need to teach you how how percentages work with multiplication? You're still using up 10% of each player's time, when each player gets 10% more damage.
The only time it works is, say, waiting for a boss teleporter. Though, I got some nice use out of it while soloing.

[Kondibon]

Surely I don't need to teach you how how percentages work with multiplication? You're still using up 10% of each player's time, when each player gets 10% more damage.
The only time it works is, say, waiting for a boss teleporter. Though, I got some nice use out of it while soloing.People don't necessarily need to stop fighting for you to cast shifta so I'm not sure what you're saying there. Not to mention you can throw out offensive techs between shifta and Deband, you don't have to literally drop everything to use them. Besides, I'm pretty sure the cast time isn't 10% of the duration anyway unless you're not maining techer, but that's a separate issue that I've already discussed. >_>

[Terrence]

I'm TEchter/BOuncer (with almost ALL TEchter boosts) and my parties are ALWAYS under the affects of S/D without having to stop fighting. You just have to want it !

[Poyonche]

It's pretty easy as a TE/BO to have a party under S/D (I'm a TE/BO too), just do some Gran Wave and Strike Gust in an ennemy spawn (or near a tower when the 5465793 Goldradhas arrives, your MPA will be happy :3 )

[LonelyGaruga]

It's easy to keep a single party buffed if you're a Techer main. If you can keep a 12 player MPA fully buffed for the entire duration of the quest without losing any time that you could better spend doing something other then buffing, then there's something to talk about.

[Walkure]

Also, the last time someone cared to try to find enemy ATK, it was somewhere around 3400-3500 in SH for some standard enemies? So on top of 500-ish bases, on like 1400ish defensive stats, that's like a 5% reduction in damage.


That's... something, I guess?

[Nitro Vordex]

Shifta and Deband don't last 15 minutes like in PSO because unlike PSO like 10x more shit can happen in 15 minutes in PSO2. PSO2's rate of play is much faster than PSO. That's why S/D buffs don't last as long. A lot of shit can happen in four minutes in this game. I mean, once you got to endgame stuff in PSO1 (level 160 and up) you had some pretty darn good equipment, and probably didn't even need S/D by then. You could clear an area in 15 minutes, regardless if you had S/D.

...I think I just argued against myself but whatever. Point being, meta in this game is facemelt 9000, so having a 15 minute S/D is counter intuitive.

[Vetur]

Ahh I am talking in regards to soloing. Its pretty annoying heh.

For me when I solo, as a Fo/Te, I tend to just not use it except for when preparing right before entering the map. It doesn't make that much difference unless you have the Techer boosts to your buffs, and even if you do, it isn't super necessary.

If you're a bouncer there are PAs that can sort of "auto-cast" them, but even then I still ignore it most of the time just because it takes more time to apply when I could just kill fast without it.

One thing you can do is take Techer friend partners from the Partner Console who have the boosts(should have a fancy visual effect on their buffs), and just rely on them to buff you randomly. That's what I do.

[UnLucky]

It's pretty easy as a TE/BO to have a party under S/D (I'm a TE/BO too), just do some Gran Wave and Strike Gust in an ennemy spawn (or near a tower when the 5465793 Goldradhas arrives, your MPA will be happy :3 )
Man, I rarely even get the effects of their minute long active fields, let alone buffs that don't exist on my screen for more than half a second.

[LonelyGaruga]

Yeah, Bouncer's support skills are worse than Shifta/Deband. Thread should be complaining about how terrible they are instead of Shifta/Deband.

[Kondibon]

Bouncer's support skills
What support skills?


Joking aside I already think elemental pp field doesn't need the element limitation, both fields should be bigger, the shifta and deband skills should buff other players when you use them and heal share should have a bigger AoE.

[Xaelouse]

Personally I wish they took the Adrenaline skill from fighter tree and put it on Bouncer's instead.
I'm curious to see what new Bouncer skills are even coming. Did they mention anything about it at all?