More new Class skills on 11/19 update

[Sizustar]

Hu

All Guard - 1 level - Main class only - Allow Hu to guard from 360 direction<Not sure if it work beside the 3 main Hu weapon>

Guard Stance Advance - 5 Level - Main class on ly - With Guard stance, after successful JG, temporary boost of damage<4%~20%> for set time<5~10 sec>

Fi

D Saber Wind Pairing - 1 Level - Subclass can use - D Saber Shift action will have guard effect<Unknown if Hu JG recover will work>

T-Dagger Spin Move - 1 Level - Subclass can use - Allow movement while using shift action of T dagger

Knuckle Gear Boost - 1 level - subclass can use - Knuckle Gear gauge +100%<DOuble?)

Ra

Moving Senai - 5 Level - Subclass can use - Player attack increase when player is attacking+moving based on skill level <1%~5%>

Dive Roll Shoot - 1 level - Subclass can use - Able to shoot during of immediately after dive roll

Gu

One more Time - 1 Level - Subclass can use - Cast another showtime after the first show time is finished, must not be hit or damage for OMT to activate.

Dive Roll Shoot - 1 level - Subclass can use - Able to shoot during of immediately after dive roll

Fo

Rod Keep Bonus - 1 Level - Main class only - Rod only, when Mirage dashing with Charge escape, can remember charged tech witih no PP cost.

Te

Reverse Field - 10 level - Main class only - Create a field that revive all downed player in the field, the field is active depending on level <5~15 sec> and HP recovered depending on level of skill <5%~100%> CD is 900 second

Reverse Bonus - 1 Level - Subclass can use- Player that was revived by player will be revived with the max shift+deband of the caster<Including shifta/deband bonus<+crit, or +hp)

Br

Snatch JA Combo - 1 level - Subclass can use - JA can be used during snatch step

Quick mate - 1 level - Unknown if Main class only - Increase useage speed of all mate

Bo

Break SD Bonus - 5 level 0 Main class only - DB only, Increase damage on none breakable part with Break stance up to 15%, but not affect Break stance Up, Potentional Rending Stance and Soul Rending Stance

Field Remain - 1 Level - Sub class can use - Player who leave caster of field stance will keep effect of the field for a short time<Currently, if you leave field, effect is gone>

Source
http://www.g-heaven.net/topics/2014/10/141022a.html

[Xaelouse]

Woah they actually did the idea of bonus damage after JG for guard stance. Now if only gear boost also applied to the stance...
Break SD Bonus is main class -and- DB only? lol

[final_attack]

That "One More Time" ...... seems like Gu just got even more hardcore ._.

[Dnd]

So fighter seems to get a bandaid for knuckle damage and 2 kinda useless skills, sweet

[Ce'Nedra]

Bonus or not, that 900 second CD is really making me doubt if I should get Reverser Field at all...

Rest seems all rather meh to me personally but will have to try them myself I guess.

[Maenara]

Showtime was basically Pre-nerf Wand Lovers for Twin Machine Guns, except worse in every way.
Now with One More Time, Showtime will be like Post-nerf Wand Lovers for Twin Machine Guns, except worse in every way.

[Ce'Nedra]

I just find it funny sega has so much issues with GU in general, its like every 2 weeks they tweak something to it. Not that I mind my growing pile of skilltree reset passes.

[gigawuts]

Will automate halfline take negative time with quick mate?

[usagi2607]

Are they all "Passive" Skills?
"D Saber Wind Pairing - 1 Level - Subclass can use - Add special effect on DS defense move" - not sure what it means, does DS have a defense move at all? (except for the Acro Effect PA)

[Maenara]

Will automate halfline take negative time with quick mate?

Obviously.

[usagi2607]

Are they all "Passive" Skills?
"D Saber Wind Pairing - 1 Level - Subclass can use - Add special effect on DS defense move" - not sure what it means, does DS have a defense move at all? (except for the Acro Effect PA)

Nevermind, checked the source. Looks like DS shift action will now have a defense move.



[Skill name] ··· D　Saber wind pa ring (Lv1)
Skill classification] ...　? ? ?
Skill Constraints ...　use Allowed also a subclass
[Prerequisite skills] ...　? ? ?
[Skill effect] ...　
→ Add a defense function in both sword weapon action "Kamaitachi".
→ Kamaitachi of only just after the firing, can "guard" of defense action.
→ subclasses such as, of whether or not is unknown, it is necessary to learn the skills "guard".
→ have learned in such a subclass whether the unknown "guard system skills" is reflected.

[Hexxy]

Hehehe. "Snatch Combo"

http://epguides.com/BeavisandButthead/cast.jpg

[gigawuts]

Bo

Break SD Bonus - 5 level 0 Main class only - DB only, Increase damage on none breakable part with Break stance up to 15%, but not affect Break stance Up, Potentional Rending Stance and Soul Rending Stance

Also, I really like it when Sega gives me exactly what I want. I do hope they expand this to all striking damage, or maybe even just an satk multiplier (like katana gear) if they REALLY don't want it to work on techy jetboots.

Anything to allow BO subbing on melee classes without having such a heavy emphasis on element stance, but not making it the new go-to sub for ranged options. Or, well, rangier options.

It'd have to be better than 15% for that, but baby steps man.

[Hitoshura]

Guard Stance Advance almost sounds cool with that JG potential sword from Facility.

[Ce'Nedra]

Also, I really like it when Sega gives me exactly what I want. I do hope they expand this to all striking damage, or maybe even just an satk multiplier (like katana gear) if they REALLY don't want it to work on techy jetboots.

Anything to allow BO subbing on melee classes without having such a heavy emphasis on element stance, but not making it the new go-to sub for ranged options. Or, well, rangier options.

It'd have to be better than 15% for that, but baby steps man.

That skill reads as BO Main class only though.

[TaigaUC]

Br
Quick mate - 1 level - Unknown if Main class only - Increase useage speed of all mate


Haha. This will be even funnier if it's main only.

[gigawuts]

That skill reads as BO Main class only though.

Whoops, thanks for the correction. I missed that.

Still, it's a step in the right direction. Considering the niren orochi's latent is a huge bonus to breakable part damage during break stance, I expected another big bonus to that instead of non-breakable part damage.

A lot of the time it seems like they have this pet idea that they really want to make work, and if it doesn't instead of accepting that and heading in a new direction they simply throw numbers and other bonuses (like maybe 20 seconds of invulnerability) at it until it's the only thing anyone does.

[Rien]

Bows are still in need of a massive mobbing buff

it's delays make it perhaps the shittiest main right now

[wefwq]

Why are they always giving Br a survival skills, it feels like they treat BR like a baby first action RPG class.

Aside from BR, why make guard stance adv main class only, it makes stance even more unappealing for some classes combination.

[Achelousaurus]

Hu skills being main class only is stupid as hell. These are perfect braver skills.

I don't mind Hu getting defensive main class only skills, but not stuff that synergize so very well with Braver.
I do like the power up from JG for Guard Stance tho. Sega is making tank Hu a truly viable option with all these buffs.
For ult quests I will definitely get a tank hu tree without fury stance.


Showtime was basically Pre-nerf Wand Lovers for Twin Machine Guns, except worse in every way.
Now with One More Time, Showtime will be like Post-nerf Wand Lovers for Twin Machine Guns, except worse in every way.
lol
One More Time sounds pretty pointless to me. There is only a 15 second interval where you cannot use Showtime.
Not that I dislike free all tree reset passes but I'd like sega to address the issue of overall low damage rather than adding minor situational side boosts.
Shooting from dive roll is rather silly because gunner is focused on sroll but it seems like a way to substitute step, dive and instead of taking forever to attack again, use a normal attack and then a PA to continue fighting quickly.


Nevermind, checked the source. Looks like DS shift action will now have a defense move.
Whoa, OP.
Atm the only thing stopping you from spamming this all the time is being wide open to enemy attacks. If you can guard while doing this kind of damage, you are unstoppable.

Dunno if I mentioned it before but Snatch JA Combo (huehuehue) is actually a great thing.
I find myself quite often too far away to use Tsukimi or Sakura (or even normal attack) and too close to use Step Attack ("long" distance roll). Not to mention step attack is a lot slower than dash > PA.
This is something I find fits perfectly cause it allows for more speed in a class focused on just that.

I really like Rod Keep Bonus cause Charge Escape was so halfassed. And since it's only 2 points, it should not a problem to fit into your build. This allows you to dodge freely when charging a tech without having to worry. Then again, it sounds quite OP when you can just charge Namegid all day long and don't have to worry about consequences, like massive hunter + automate halfline SC RaHu.

[LonelyGaruga]

Showtime was basically Pre-nerf Wand Lovers for Twin Machine Guns, except worse in every way.
Now with One More Time, Showtime will be like Post-nerf Wand Lovers for Twin Machine Guns, except worse in every way.

Wand Lovers was never nerfed ever, what do you mean by this?

FYI when Wand Lovers was first implemented, it had the penalty of making your PP go to zero during its duration. At least Showtime didn't have any negative effects of that caliber.

[Xaelouse]

At least they're realizing Guard Stance will never be used for how much damage you lose vs. Fury. It just needs another hefty boost in a unique way like this skill and it'd be golden.
I was hoping for the pp/hp regen boosting War Cry skill to come, or the pp recovery guard, but I guess that'd be later

[Maenara]

Wand Lovers was never nerfed ever, what do you mean by this?

FYI when Wand Lovers was first implemented, it had the penalty of making your PP go to zero during its duration. At least Showtime didn't have any negative effects of that caliber.

Sorry, I meant "buff", I was half-asleep when I typed that.

[Alandsmj]

Then again, it sounds quite OP when you can just charge Namegid all day long and don't have to worry about consequences, like massive hunter + automate halfline SC RaHu.

Last time I check, TC keep works with most techs BUT Namegid. Unless there are some invisible tweaks Rod keep won't be able to do that neither.

[The Walrus]

Nice to see that Break Stance is almost worth taking now. If they make it 20% more on non-breakable stuff then yeah I'd go for it.

Double Saber getting a guard just might be enough for me to start srsly playing FI once I cap HU too...

[Stealthcmc1974]

Nice to see that Break Stance is almost worth taking now. If they make it 20% more on non-breakable stuff then yeah I'd go for it.

Double Saber getting a guard just might be enough for me to start srsly playing FI once I cap HU too...

^

Seriously, having Break Stance (if it was viable) would be a much better choice for my build, seeing as how elemental stance only benefits my JBs and I don't feel like getting all my other weapons in different elements.

EDIT: Also aiming to make a Tank HU/FI that uses swords and DBs so the fact we can guard with DBs now is fantastic.

[Drifting Fable]

Guarding with the double saber is certainly going to be interesting to see in action, might see some more fighters out on the field.

So what does this new knuckle skill do again? Is it just a weird fury gear boost to stay at 100% longer, doubling the animation speed, or a soft damage buff? I can't make heads or tails about it, but seems like the last one if I account for "SEGA rule". oxo

[Hexxy]

Hmm... Guard Stance + Dio Weapon (the ones with Defensive Stance potential) + new JG damage boost + War Brave + JA1+2 + all flash guards maxed + massive hunter.

HMMM. HMMMMM.

[pkemr4]

arent knuckles fast enough with gear building?

[Sizustar]

Guarding with the double saber is certainly going to be interesting to see in action, might see some more fighters out on the field.

So what does this new knuckle skill do again? Is it just a weird fury gear boost to stay at 100% longer, doubling the animation speed, or a soft damage buff? I can't make heads or tails about it, but seems like the last one if I account for "SEGA rule". oxo

It says it double aka. 100% the Knuckle Gear gauge.
I haven't played as a knuckle fi, so I can't answer what that means.

[Xaelouse]

arent knuckles fast enough with gear building?

It's easy, but not that fast.
It's a good skill especially with the new gap closer because you only need to swing one time, do gap closer for all 3 bars, then lead to I guess backhand smash for a quick meaty kill.
I mean it helps, but it's not really what knuckles need.

[Keilyn]

Hu

All Guard - 1 level - Main class only - Allow Hu to guard from 360 direction<Not sure if it work beside the 3 main Hu weapon>

Guard Stance Advance - 5 Level - Main class on ly - With Guard stance, after successful JG, temporary boost of damage<4%~20%> for set time<5~10 sec>

Fi

D Saber Wind Pairing - 1 Level - Subclass can use - D Saber Shift action will have guard effect<Unknown if Hu JG recover will work>

T-Dagger Spin Move - 1 Level - Subclass can use - Allow movement while using shift action of T dagger

Knuckle Gear Boost - 1 level - subclass can use - Knuckle Gear gauge +100%<DOuble?)

Ra

Moving Senai - 5 Level - Subclass can use - Player attack increase when player is attacking+moving based on skill level <1%~5%>

Dive Roll Shoot - 1 level - Subclass can use - Able to shoot during of immediately after dive roll

Gu

One more Time - 1 Level - Subclass can use - Cast another showtime after the first show time is finished, must not be hit or damage for OMT to activate.

Dive Roll Shoot - 1 level - Subclass can use - Able to shoot during of immediately after dive roll

Fo

Rod Keep Bonus - 1 Level - Main class only - Rod only, when Mirage dashing with Charge escape, can remember charged tech witih no PP cost.

Te

Reverse Field - 10 level - Main class only - Create a field that revive all downed player in the field, the field is active depending on level <5~15 sec> and HP recovered depending on level of skill <5%~100%> CD is 900 second

Reverse Bonus - 1 Level - Subclass can use- Player that was revived by player will be revived with the max shift+deband of the caster<Including shifta/deband bonus<+crit, or +hp)

Br

Snatch JA Combo - 1 level - Subclass can use - JA can be used during snatch step

Quick mate - 1 level - Unknown if Main class only - Increase useage speed of all mate

Bo

Break SD Bonus - 5 level 0 Main class only - DB only, Increase damage on none breakable part with Break stance up to 15%, but not affect Break stance Up, Potentional Rending Stance and Soul Rending Stance

Field Remain - 1 Level - Sub class can use - Player who leave caster of field stance will keep effect of the field for a short time<Currently, if you leave field, effect is gone>

Source
http://www.g-heaven.net/topics/2014/10/141022a.html

Great....

At the rate that techer is played...I would get one point in Reverser Field, and One point in Reverser Bonus.

Why? When a player is revived they gain invulnerability for a very short time. This time is short enough for the techer to cast a full resta under territory burst to raise everyone back up to full health.

Reverser Bonus is good since it means not having to recast Shifta and Deband, but Reverse Field....I probably would put one point at most since players tend to be revived with 50% health, and most players carry moons.

I wonder how often the skill will be useful.
I hope Ultimate Mode works out to use it..

Fighter Skills....not so bad. Moving with Twin Daggers in Spin is going to make such a different that bossing dragons will be easier.

[Maenara]

Here's a question: TE/BO, with Reverse Field and Field Remain. Wouldn't this basically allow for self-revival by activating the field before you die?

[The Walrus]

Depends on if Sega took it into account with how the skill works

[Poyonche]

Here's a question: TE/BO, with Reverse Field and Field Remain. Wouldn't this basically allow for self-revival by activating the field before you die?

You have 2 hours to answer this.

Good luck.

EDIT : This is a thing I'll try ofc on ultimate release.

[Xaeris]

Moving Senai is great for Gunner, assuming it'd be active whenever Standing Snipe isn't. 5% is kinda lame though. As for Encore (screw "One More Time"), I was pretty hyped for a skill that would potentially preserve High Time's stack and Showtime Star's PP, but it only works if you don't get hit for the duration? I guess that's worth one SP, but I'm still disappointed.

[Laxedrane]

Here's a question: TE/BO, with Reverse Field and Field Remain. Wouldn't this basically allow for self-revival by activating the field before you die?

I wanna know if you die when your have the field up do you automatically get back up too. Since fields don't drop when you do.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Bo

Break SD Bonus - 5 level 0 Main class only - DB only, Increase damage on none breakable part with Break stance up to 15%, but not affect Break stance Up, Potentional Rending Stance and Soul Rending Stance


Goddamnit sega...

[Kondibon]

Well at least there's a reason to main Bo now.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Well at least there's a reason to main Bo now.

The wrong kind of reason.

[Kondibon]

The wrong kind of reason.To be fair, I'd consider all the mainclass skills to be a poor design choice. It just bothered me that all the other classes had them but Bo didn't.

[LonelyGaruga]

Great....

At the rate that techer is played...I would get one point in Reverser Field, and One point in Reverser Bonus.

Why? When a player is revived they gain invulnerability for a very short time. This time is short enough for the techer to cast a full resta under territory burst to raise everyone back up to full health.

Reverser Bonus is good since it means not having to recast Shifta and Deband, but Reverse Field....I probably would put one point at most since players tend to be revived with 50% health, and most players carry moons.

I wonder how often the skill will be useful.
I hope Ultimate Mode works out to use it..

900s cooldown. That's 15 minutes.

You can only use Reverser Field once every 15 minutes.

I mean yeah Reverser Bonus granting Shifta/Deband is nice, but a 15 minute cooldown means you can use it like once a quest. I'd rather put the SP into Deband Cut or T-ATK Up 1/2 (already have 2 maxed on my Te/Fi).


Here's a question: TE/BO, with Reverse Field and Field Remain. Wouldn't this basically allow for self-revival by activating the field before you die?

No. What it does is it continues to grant the effect of a field after the person leaves it for a short period of time. This means that the bonuses granted by Bouncer fields, because those are lasting effects. Reverser Field is something that checks for a condition (being incapacitated), and then revives a player if they are. If it could work on the user of Reverser Field, then it would revive them regardless of whether or not Field Remain was in play, because they're still within the field while they're incapacitated.


To be fair, I'd consider all the mainclass skills to be a poor design choice. It just bothered me that all the other classes had them but Bo didn't.

Switch Strike is main class only.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

To be fair, I'd consider all the mainclass skills to be a poor design choice. It just bothered me that all the other classes had them but Bo didn't.

I considered the fact Bo lacked near-unconditional multipliers for one of their weapons outside of shifta air to be poor design choice. To tie their first meaningful form of unconditional % damage that they should've had in the first place to a mainclass only skill...

The other issue is that mainclass skills are generally sweet icing on the otherwise well-made cake, like limit break, war brave, combat escape. This new break stance skill being weaker than elemental stance, and being locked behind "mainclass only" is stupid because people will continue to main Hu and Fi for dual blades.

They want to give people more reason to main Bo? This was a terrible way to do it. Once a player has the means, there's still no reason to main Bo primarily using DBs.

May be a step in the right direction, but they didn't get anywhere.

[Kondibon]

Switch Strike is main class only.
https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8y8twXUjr1rzfyu6o1_250.gif

[LonelyGaruga]

Just saying, Bouncer has a main class only skill already, even if it's moronic.

Break SD Bonus seems bad since it only applies to parts that can't break. So you'd still be better off with Elemental Stance for higher unconditional damage as long as you were properly equipped for it.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

May be a step in the right direction, but they didn't get anywhere.

I'll take this back; in some ways, it's a step in the wrong direction for thinking "mainclass only" tags will fix their classes for them.

Lack of easier to use-multipliers for DB damage, and lack of reasons to main Bo are two separate problems that they shouldn't have tried to fix with one skill.

The choice to main Br, Hu, or Fi with katanas each have their perks. Choosing to main Bo over, Hu, or Fi using DBs is still gimping yourself by a large amount, since you gain just about nothing besides switch strike for boots.

[Kondibon]

I considered the fact Bo lacked near-unconditional multipliers for one of their weapons outside of shifta air to be poor design choice. To tie their first meaningful form of unconditional % damage that they should've had in the first place to a mainclass only skill...

The other issue is that mainclass skills are generally sweet icing on the otherwise well-made cake, like limit break, war brave, combat escape. This new break stance skill being weaker than elemental stance, and being locked behind "mainclass only" is stupid because people will continue to main Hu and Fi for dual blades.

They want to give people more reason to main Bo? This was a terrible way to do it. Once a player has the means, there's still no reason to main Bo primarily using DBs.

May be a step in the right direction, but they didn't get anywhere.I'm just saying that I think main class only skills in general are a bad design choice in general. Limit Break isn't the icing on the cake. You NEED it to reliably activate the Slayer and Beat skills. War Brave is hardly incentive to main HU, but sword/partisan are still almost unusable without fury gear boost.

I'm not saying the skill isn't bad, infact I was being sarcastic when I said it gave people a reason to main Bo. Like I said, I don't like main class only skills. At least none of the skills they chose for it.


I'll take this back; in some ways, it's a step in the wrong direction for thinking "mainclass only" tags will fix their classes for them.


See? We agree. I'm just being a butt nugget cause I'm grouchy.


Just saying, Bouncer has a main class only skill already, even if it's moronic.
Good on you

[Maenara]

Next up on MMO Balance: Sega edition! Weakbullet! Now main-class only! Players every rejoice as all equilibrium is finally restored!

[GoldenFalcon]

Break Stance is awesome. Maybe I should go ahead and do the Dual Blade thing I had planned

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Next up on MMO Balance: Sega edition! Weakbullet! Now main-class only! Players every rejoice as all equilibrium is finally restored!

/facepalm

damnit sega...

[Selphea]

I thought Segac balance would be more like:

1. Give Weak Bullet-level multipliers to all classes
2. Scratch their heads when people combine them to kill bosses in 4 seconds (see: Banish Arrow, Chain Trigger)
3. Nerf something completely peripheral like PA damage
4. Backpedal when they get a huge player backlash.

[Keilyn]

I still say a skill that is once every 15 minutes when TA Groups will kill the quest in 5 minutes.....is going to be utterly useless. :(

Thank God I play Fighter/Techer and get the increased Critical Hit Damage, My wands already crafted into fighter...get actual useful skills to play around with which I think are passive when I spend points on them.

...and Limit Break combined with a techer's deband cut/toughness + Support Partner's Jellen Shot on Bosses, has me survive taking a hit under Limit Break.

I rather have players do the decent thing which is to bring 5 moons, or bust. To me if a player is not bringing in five moon atomizers to endgame battles, they should go shoot themselves. They are cheap, allow revivals and simply put...better than a once per 15 minute field.

I care more about the new tech coming out. :)

[GoldenFalcon]

I rather have players do the decent thing which is to bring 5 moons, or bust. To me if a player is not bringing in five moon atomizers to endgame battles, they should go shoot themselves.
I prefer people that don't die

Expecting moon atomizers is like planning to die. If you don't know, that's a bad plan

[Selphea]

People die when Apos lags out and does infinite pillars :(!

[LonelyGaruga]

People are unreliable so bringing Moon Atomizers is completely mandatory. It's only 1/50 of your inventory space and 250 meseta per Moon Atomizer.

[Magicks]

Think of it this way; if for some bizarre reason you need more than 5 Moon Atomizers... Well, you have Reversal Field! Yaayyyyy!

[gigawuts]

I thought Segac balance would be more like:

1. Give Weak Bullet-level multipliers to all classes
2. Scratch their heads when people combine them to kill bosses in 4 seconds (see: Banish Arrow, Chain Trigger)
3. Nerf something completely peripheral like PA damage
4. Backpedal when they get a huge player backlash.

it's like reading a fortune cookie

[Maenara]

I prefer people that don't die

Expecting moon atomizers is like planning to die. If you don't know, that's a bad plan

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I'm sorry. It just is. I don't know what reality you live in, but in this one, planning for contingencies is one of the wisest things you can ever do.

[Sanguine2009]

i bring moons always because i expect someone to screw up and die. unless its a small premade mpa its pretty much a certainty that i will need to rez someone.

[Kondibon]

You can bring moons AND the skill so I dunno what the problem is. Wit ha 15 minute cool down you're probablyonly gonna be using it if half the MPA is dead anyway.


This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I'm sorry. It just is. I don't know what reality you live in, but in this one, planning for contingencies is one of the wisest things you can ever do.He's being sarcastic.

[GoldenFalcon]

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. I'm sorry. It just is. I don't know what reality you live in, but in this one, planning for contingencies is one of the wisest things you can ever do.
I love you

[GoldenFalcon]

He's being sarcastic.
For PSO2, yes

But I started that in Guild Wars 1. Where revive skills meant not having other skills.

[Maenara]

Sarcasm is a little hard to detect in text.

[Kondibon]

Sarcasm is a little hard to detect in text.

To be fair, I only knew he was being sarcastic because I've known him so long.

[Maenara]

To be more fair, the only reason I took it for serious is the unreal amount of completely fallible positions people take up here regularly.

[Kondibon]

To be more fair, the only reason I took it for serious is the unreal amount of completely fallible positions people take up here regularly.
Well yeah that too.

[milranduil]

To be more fair, the only reason I took it for serious is the unreal amount of completely fallible positions people take up here regularly.

You mean like people saying Ein Rakaten is better than Addbullet? :wacko:

[Maenara]

You mean like people saying Ein Rakaten is better than Addbullet? :wacko:

No, I mean like people who watch years-old PSO2 videos and observe the fact that a person doesn't do Just Attacks then, then ignores the fact that later videos show them using Just Attacks >95% of the time, and uses that as a method to attack them.

[Lumpen Thingy]

You mean like people saying Ein Rakaten is better than Addbullet? :wacko:

I too thought this was funny that people can be so stupid :D

[milranduil]

No, I mean like people who watch years-old PSO2 videos and observe the fact that a person doesn't do Just Attacks then, then ignores the fact that later videos show them using Just Attacks >95% of the time, and uses that as a method to attack them.

Still avoiding the point after so long, I see. Carry on!

[GoldenFalcon]

Still avoiding the point after so long, I see. Carry on!
You're going to have to try a little harder than that

[LonelyGaruga]

You can bring moons AND the skill so I dunno what the problem is. Wit ha 15 minute cool down you're probablyonly gonna be using it if half the MPA is dead anyway.

It costs SP.

Honestly though, if you do use more than, say, 2 Moon Atomizers, the party is pretty bad. I mean 2 for maybe...every other player? Or every third. Some people just don't revive others, so if that happens, it's only fair for the incapacitated player that you revive them if you can.

[Tivor]

Also, there are times when 3~5 people use their moons at almost the same time (and it may happen even more after 11/19) thus making the MPA's moons burn faster.

But for me the only thing that justifies that skill would be for Techer friend partners. Maybe.

[Walkure]

Fi

D Saber Wind Pairing - 1 Level - Subclass can use - D Saber Shift action will have guard effect<Unknown if Hu JG recover will work>

T-Dagger Spin Move - 1 Level - Subclass can use - Allow movement while using shift action of T dagger

Knuckle Gear Boost - 1 level - subclass can use - Knuckle Gear gauge +100%<DOuble?)Twin Dagger spin can actually allow for better usage of PAs for TAJAB, I like this.

Knuckle gear boost basically lets you get to max gear effect in the dash attack or basic attack you use to start a JA'd PA. Double Saber gives a perfect place to fit in kamaitachis while bossing. It'd be great if the bossing PAs on those weapons were remotely good at PP-management, but hey these are actually pretty cool changes.


The other issue is that mainclass skills are generally sweet icing on the otherwise well-made cake, like limit break, war brave, combat escape.Fighter main-only skills exist to save other passives from being completely useless to most players. That's not icing on the cake at all!

[Kondibon]

It costs SP.
This fact has nothing to do with what I said (You can take moons even if you have the skill), or what was implied by Keilyn (that people taking the skill wouldn't bring moons anyway).

[Maenara]

inb4 1 SP skill that allows third person camera to accurately follow players using Twin Daggers.

[Walkure]

If I had Reverser, I'd toss it down when Luther starts making discs after the time stop. I don't know how it is on ship2, but on 10 I swear like 25-50% of the MPA dies from that move at least once a run.

[Kondibon]

inb4 1 SP skill that allows third person camera to accurately follow players using Twin Daggers.If you try to target/camera allign the camera will start following you again. I do think they need to genuinely fix that though.

[Tivor]

Expect Sega to fix any sort of third-person camera is just plain absurd.

[LonelyGaruga]

This fact has nothing to do with what I said (You can take moons even if you have the skill), or what was implied by Keilyn (that people taking the skill wouldn't bring moons anyway).

I was unclear, wasn't I? Sorry, let me fix that.


You can bring moons AND the skill so I dunno what the problem is.


It costs SP.

The problem is that it costs SP. Reverser Field is not worth the SP cost, so you should not use it.

EDIT: Wait, no, I understand what you mean now, looking at Keilyn's post again. Sorry for not catching it faster.

[Walkure]

If you try to target/camera allign the camera will start following you again. I do think they need to genuinely fix that though.I find the lockon system in general more annoying than the camera tracking when using Twin Dagger.

There are too many things that should be as simple as switching targets once or twice that turn into "fuckit, I'll just TPS Symphonic Drive instead".

[Kondibon]

My bad for not quoting I guess. It's understandable.

[Rakurai]

I find the lockon system in general more annoying than the camera tracking when using Twin Dagger.

I really don't know why they haven't changed the lock-on system yet.

It wouldn't be so bad if not for the fact that numerous enemies have countless parts that can be targeted for no good reason.

It should simply cycle through everything that's in your line of sight, rather then requiring you to be standing at a certain distance and/or angle if you want to target a particular part.

[Tivor]

It was nigh impossible to target Vol's back spike if you were more than 1 inch away from it before EP3, IIRC.

I think there's a cycle button, but it just simply does crap for me.

[Kondibon]

Ringa has TEN limbs, TWO torsos, and ALL OF THEM ARE TARGETABLE!
http://i.imgur.com/AgA9aTg.jpg?2

IIRC, they did remove some of the target points on one enemy... Kartagos... Just Kartagos...


It was nigh impossible to target Vol's back spike if you were more than 1 inch away from it before EP3, IIRC.

I think there's a cycle button, but it just simply does crap for me.In order for target switching to work properly both you and the enemy have to stand perfectly still. I've had it switch back and forth between the same two spots only to go to the spot I was trying to aim for when I wasn't expacting it to and ended up switching again.

[Walkure]

Vol's back crystal is the worst; there was a time where I was hitting that point with TDs while tabbing between his wings repeatedly.

Especially frustrating when farming for souls with daggers and you really want that extra break. Slightly better nowadays with LB and options outside of Symphonic Spam on TD for breaking crystals after tail breaks.

[Rien]

has uh

anyone tried tps with twin daggers

I found it really easy TPSing symphonic on vol

[Syklo]

inb4 1 SP skill that allows third person camera to accurately follow players using Twin Daggers.


If you try to target/camera allign the camera will start following you again. I do think they need to genuinely fix that though.

Are you two talking about how the Third person camera (and not the over-the-shoulder one) doesn't properly track your character's altitude when attacking from the ground?
Well that's what happens with the camera smoothing. It's annoying that the camera stops (smoothly) moving as soon as you initiate an attack, and that really should be fixed.

To outline what kondibon already said, there are a few ways to temporarily force camera smoothing off while airbourne:[SPOILER-BOX]

Lock on. This forces your camera to track the enemy. Just simply unlock and your camera is back to its jagged glory
Directly change camera settings (You know, the ±elevation or zoom in/out keys that are on the numpad by default?)
Toggle TPS (Over-the-shoulder)

[/SPOILER-BOX]

has uh

anyone tried tps with twin daggers

I found it really easy TPSing symphonic on vol
You're telling me people DON'T TPS with daggers?
It's annoying when you miss though, lol.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Fighter main-only skills exist to save other passives from being completely useless to most players. That's not icing on the cake at all!

By that you mean, halflines/crazy skills? Yeah sure there's that, but there's also crit strike.

Either way, Bo skill tree offers nothing unique/meaningful to any class (and even themselves) besides their weapons, and respective gears/actives, along with main class only skills that encourage sub-optimal play compared to other choices.

Between switch strike and this break stance skill being main class only, 15%, not effected by the 'up' skill, nor weapon potentials, it's like SEGA is intentionally saying "main Bo if you don't have the optimal setup to use their weapons", which is ass-backwards. Bo mainclassing with their weapons is for peasants/leveling apparently.


I have a few better ideas actually:

-No longer main class only

-No longer dual blade only

-Allow the 'up' skill, and potentials to effect it

-Reduce all break stance potentials to reasonable levels (~8% for non-niren orochi. ~15% for niren orochi. No exact details on numbers, but I think it would be fair if elemental stance was still slightly more rewarding than break stance+weapon potential outside of niren orochi potential just like how wise's values>brave, or weak>average)

-Give Bo a new main class only skill. Maybe fields grant shifta/deband on effected players, and increase damage done by those effected by fields by maybe 10%. These extra effects persist with their field remain skill as well. Here's a valid reason to main Bo right there! Shifta strike to everybody around you!

Main Hu for more unconditionals, base stats, war brave.

Main Fi for highest potential damage.

Main Bo for meaningful melee support and comparable multipliers.

Subbing bouncer for their skill tree will also be less stupid because of break stance damage to unbreakables not being limited to dual blades.

Damn, I'd actually really want to see all this now ><. I'd go back Bo for sure.

[Selphea]

It doesn't help that the DBs with the best weapon potential actually encourage you to not be Bouncer main since you can't get Crit Strike without Fighter main.

That and Bouncer has QoL issues trying to maintain Shifta Air with only 15 seconds per pulse, especially with DBs where Shifta can't be charged in the air. It's ridiculously high upkeep for a stingy 5%. There's always sub Fighter for Adrenaline but these problems really should be solved in-class.

The fields don't help either, considering you sink like a rock when you fistpump.

[Rien]

We should give bouncers something for their namesake:

JR Bounce
When using Just Reversal, you flip up forwards/towards lockon target.

[Syklo]

We should give bouncers something for their namesake:

JR Bounce
When using Just Reversal, you flip up forwards/towards lockon target.
I approve!

Watch this happen when bosses fly out of the arena!

[Walkure]

has uh

anyone tried tps with twin daggers

I found it really easy TPSing symphonic on volYeah, he was the first example that comes to mind with "fuckit, I'll just TPS Symphonic Drive instead".


By that you mean, halflines/crazy skills? Yeah sure there's that, but there's also crit strike.Critical Strike was basically an earlier attempt to save critical hits. Any Stance Critical skill on an uncrafted rare was averaging 20% chance to ignore the 5% average weapon attack loss on a rare weapon, which usually made for a whopping ~1ATK per SP spent. Fighter was also in a really rough spot, so I'd imagine they thought "we have no idea how to fix this class, but this mechanic is also useless so let's try fixing both at the same time". So they added a small multiplier.

It feels like BO skill tree was a similar attempt to try to encourage crafted weapons (nobody bothered with it before they added a DEX bonus), matching element attribute (nobody bothers with it outside of Ancient Oath and even then that's mostly for the multiplier), targeting breakables (nobody bothers with breaking outside of farming for affix farming), shifta/deband (which before TE-main skills, people tended not to bother with) and even Techer-style support (which, before Shifta Strike and Deband Toughness, nobody really bothered with).

Basically, the entire BO tree seems to have skills either borrowing the design from BR skill tree, or using the same design philosophy that birthed Critical Strike. With that in mind, it's not really a surprise that the entire tree is awful outside of one or two weapon-specific skills.

[Selphea]

It's partly that the Bouncer tree is awfully sparse on top of being awfully designed. They piled on a lot of nice-to-have stuff like Heal Bonus and Reversal PP but seem to have forgotten to add actual skills for damage.

The Bouncer tree gives you 203 points to choose from, of which 30 are mutually exclusive because they're different stances.

In comparison, Fighter, another dual stance class, has 244 points' of skills.

And classes like Ranger and Gunner with no mutually exclusive stances have 217-224 points' worth of skills to choose from.

If they added another 10-20 points' worth of stuff to take like this:


Shifta Air JA Bonus (5pts, requires Shifta Air 5) - 10% Damage for JAs in the air while Shifta'd
Multi Normal Support (1pt) - Uncharged support techs get 1 extra pulse, Uncharged Zanverse and Megiverse get +1 sec duration.
Instant Field (1pt) - Fields activate instantly, similar to Showtime.
Stance Field (1pt), Main Class Only, requires Instant Field) - Both Elemental and Critical Field will activate when Elemental Stance or Break Stance is activated, and stay active for the duration of the stance.
Field Break (5pts, Main Class only, requires Stance Field) - Cancel all active fields, disable all fields for 120 seconds and gain a buff for 30 seconds, 120 second cooldown. Elemental Field - Gain 50 PP and 50 Max PP; Crit Field - Gain 50% Crit Chance and 20% Crit Damage.


The tree would be in a lot better shape.

And they should totally expand Shifta Air to 10 points and drop Craft Mastery to 5 points too ._.

[Achelousaurus]

Vol's back crystal is the worst; there was a time where I was hitting that point with TDs while tabbing between his wings repeatedly.

Especially frustrating when farming for souls with daggers and you really want that extra break. Slightly better nowadays with LB and options outside of Symphonic Spam on TD for breaking crystals after tail breaks.
Quartz Wings.
._.
Or more precisely Crys Wings. I always try to break as many rare boss parts as possible in ToT3 but idiots just go for a quick kill and last time we had like 6 items from King Vardha. Crys dies so fast most of the time that not even the tail is broken, only the nose.

Also, lock is on is NOT a fix to not seeing your character anymore when you use daggers.
I use lock on very often and never over the shoulder and almost every time I use Symphonic Dive for the first time and get some altitude the cam is screwed.
I can see my feet at the top of the screen and the cam has a terrible angle, the only way to fix it is letting go of lock on and then locking on again, hoping against hope that I can get the same target again (the target area in which you can switch being locked on targets is like 20° and anything to either side of it might as well be off screen).

[Shinamori]

I hate hate have Hunar in my mpas. I guess none wants a shot at 18M.

[Achelousaurus]

Don't hate on Hunar, hate on impatient pugs :D
Cause honestly, no one has the time to wait 20 seconds for him to pull out his sword. 20 whole frigging seconds!!!11!1!!

[Shinamori]

I can understand in TD3, but anywhere else....

[Rien]

18m? I was under the impression that Yasha did not drop off sword breaks.

[LonelyGaruga]

-Reduce all break stance potentials to reasonable levels (~8% for non-niren orochi. ~15% for niren orochi. No exact details on numbers, but I think it would be fair if elemental stance was still slightly more rewarding than break stance+weapon potential outside of niren orochi potential just like how wise's values>brave, or weak>average)

Elemental Stance is the easier of the two to maintain. Break Stance doesn't even work on many mid-bosses, and the majority of bosses don't have breakable parts for their weak points. So Break Stance should be the stronger of the two. Niren Orochi actually makes it so that Break Stance roughly doubles your damage for attacking breakable parts, which would make, say, attacking Ragne's legs preferable to attacking its core. Which is exactly how Break Stance should be, because otherwise it's reducing your damage output by forcing you to stick to breakable parts instead of weak points. Though, you'd still do more damage by attacking the core with Elemental Stance.

Elemental Stance just requires you to have a matching element, which is practically unconditional. Oh yeah, not everyone has a rainbow set, but with Elemental Stance, they should.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Elemental Stance is the easier of the two to maintain. Break Stance doesn't even work on many mid-bosses, and the majority of bosses don't have breakable parts for their weak points. So Break Stance should be the stronger of the two. Niren Orochi actually makes it so that Break Stance roughly doubles your damage for attacking breakable parts, which would make, say, attacking Ragne's legs preferable to attacking its core. Which is exactly how Break Stance should be, because otherwise it's reducing your damage output by forcing you to stick to breakable parts instead of weak points. Though, you'd still do more damage by attacking the core with Elemental Stance.

Elemental Stance just requires you to have a matching element, which is practically unconditional. Oh yeah, not everyone has a rainbow set, but with Elemental Stance, they should.

My change ideas were assuming the skill for break stance bonus damage on unbreakable parts went though.




Break SD Bonus:

-No longer main class only

-No longer dual blade only

-Allow the 'up' skill, and potentials to effect it

-Reduce all break stance potentials to reasonable levels (~8% for non-niren orochi. ~15% for niren orochi. No exact details on numbers, but I think it would be fair if elemental stance was still slightly more rewarding than break stance+weapon potential outside of niren orochi potential just like how wise's values>brave, or weak>average)

-Give Bo a new main class only skill. Maybe fields grant shifta/deband on effected players, and increase damage done by those effected by fields by 10%. These extra effects persist with their field remain skill as well. Here's a valid reason to main Bo right there! Shifta strike to you, and everybody around you!

Hm... honestly they could just scrap the the skill they're coming out with for break stance and just set unbreakable damage bonus on break stance to 110% if they went with my suggestions.

At the moment, break SD bonus being main class only kills it. Not being effected by the 'up' skill is salt in the wound, and will do nothing to change how Fi/Bo with crafted weapons+ele stance is the way to go. Break SD bonus is total failue before it even gets a chance at encouraging Bo mains, and giving a decent multiplier to DBs that doesn't include making a rainbow pallette. My ideas are to treat each of those as a separate problem (which they should have been treated in the first place), and fix each of those.

Edit: once people start posting about how bad break bonus is, and how crafted weapon Fi/Bo is still the way to go, I'll quote myself and say I called it. Their devs lack foresight as if they still don't play their own game.

[LonelyGaruga]

Ah, I misread. I thought you meant adjusting the skills as well as the potentials. Didn't observe that you specified potentials. Break Stance's weapon potentials should still be stronger than Elemental Stance, though. The other two are stronger because they have harder to achieve bonuses. Break Stance getting Break SD Bonus is one of the worst decisions to go with that I could think of though. It's rewarding players for doing things that they shouldn't be doing with Break Stance in the first place. If you wanted to attack non-breakable parts, why not use Elemental Stance for over twice the bonus? And if you removed the limits on it to work with the other bonuses toward Break Stance, then it's pretty much a stronger Average Stance with bonus damage on breakables, making Elemental Stance redundant. The whole thing is pretty awful, but I guess it's to be expected of Bouncer skills. Most of them are pretty bad.

I think it's incredibly obvious that Break SD Bonus is bad just by looking at it, so I dunno what there is to call here.

[KatsuraJun]

Honestly, you guys are being too hard on the skill, it's just a band-aid fix for two problems -

one, DB BO is expensive to play. Crafting 5 weapons and adding fighter class and grinding them all is a lot more than what a new player wanting to play BO can afford. Until then, they might as well get no stance currently because Break is a waste of a skill tree. The new break stance passive at least lets them *play* DB BO and not be completely fucking awful.

two, break stance is fucking terrible


Honestly, I expected them to go "well let's just RAISE THE DAMAGE ON BREAK STANCE" like they do with every problem (just raise the number and it'll maybe fix itself, hello S-Roll JA) and not actually address the inherently flawed concept of designing a stance around something that only works on a handful of bosses in the game (breakable parts that turn into weakpoints once broken) so this is a lot better than what I was expecting at least.

I'm sure there's more skills in the works to make break stance not fucking horrible because at least they're demonstrating that they know that it sucks because it has such a ridiculously narrow application right now. (so they're broadening it)

[Syklo]

Also, lock is on is NOT a fix to not seeing your character anymore when you use daggers.
I use lock on very often and never over the shoulder and almost every time I use Symphonic Dive for the first time and get some altitude the cam is screwed.
I can see my feet at the top of the screen and the cam has a terrible angle, the only way to fix it is letting go of lock on and then locking on again, hoping against hope that I can get the same target again (the target area in which you can switch being locked on targets is like 20° and anything to either side of it might as well be off screen).

You know you can just re-adjust the camera (via numpad keys on default config) to fix that?
Only one key press.

[Maenara]

It shouldn't take any key presses.

[Syklo]

Duh it shouldn't.
Would you rather not get used to existing workarounds until that gets fixed, then?

[Maenara]

I'd rather use a weapon type that works.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Honestly, you guys are being too hard on the skill, it's just a band-aid fix for two problems -


Gah! That's why I hate it! They're pissing away a rare skill tree modifying opportunity on a bandaid fix for bouncers on the low end with something their skill tree should've had in the first place while other classes get icing on their cake, while trying to make the idea of maining BO more attractive with the same skill, which makes it suck even harder.

Now I can expect to not see any real BO skill tree changes besides twisting the knob up a little on break SD bonus, and not making it main class probably for months.

As for all my other ideas/any other chances to make BO a respectable mainclass choice will have to wait at least til the next level cap increase!

Bandaid fixes deserve no credit. Bandaid fixes made in place of real fixes during major content/level cap updates is just shamefully lazy, and a wasted opportunity. I can't let this go. They failed.


The one thing that is reassuring is that I may not have been the only one that brought up the stance BS for bouncers last survey. Now to wait till next survey where I'd have to try to make a detailed response in machine-translated japanese with the simplest phrases I can manage on how they should handle a fix like real game developers. In the meantime, bouncer is stuck playing catchup in the skilltree department.

[Tivor]

^ Real game developers -at Sega- made me chuckle here. I wish they had some, or at least more than a dozen or so.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

If you wanted to attack non-breakable parts, why not use Elemental Stance for over twice the bonus?

-SEGA realises that forcing DB BOs to rely on ele stance when they have no innate mechanics to support it outside of "get a half dozen weapons" is bad design. Break stance being overly conditional is what made relying on ele stance necessary.

-In the event BOs actually have a good assortment of skills to choose from, you cant expect them to pick up both stances. Most Fis stopped doing that, and you can't use that reasoning to say katana BRs should have both weak and average stance for when they attack weak points. Dual-stancing is being phased out.

Those two things together is why something like break SD bonus is necessary, but it's coming implementation is just terrible between being uneffected by potentials (which is why I say they should lower the multipliers on the potentials and make them work for the unconditional damage portion), uneffected by stance up, and worst of all, mainclass only.

Funny thing is, since it's also DB only combined with the possibility that people will likely not double stance, SEGA may have shot their idea of a real hybrid class in the foot... again.


And if you removed the limits on it to work with the other bonuses toward Break Stance, then it's pretty much a stronger Average Stance with bonus damage on breakables, making Elemental Stance redundant.

That's why I suggest it can be a universal multiplier that's still weaker even with rending stance potential than elemental stance+up. If break stance was stronger than ele stance with orochiagito's soul rending potential, I'd say it's fair game. Make the 12* actually worth a damn.

[LonelyGaruga]

Well, as things are, Niren Orochi should be amazing against the bosses that do have breakable weak points. And since Bouncer really does have a drought of useful skills, dual stancing shouldn't be an issue, unlike with Fighter and Braver.

Main issue with those two picking one stance is simply that one is just that much easier to go for. Between Break Stance and Elemental Stance, the latter is the easier to use. Trying to make Break Stance the one to go for because you believe having a weapon of each element is bad design is just being opinionated. Elemental Stance is the one in Brave Stance and Average Stance's position on the Bouncer tree. No sense in trying to make Break Stance take it.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Trying to make Break Stance the one to go for because you believe having a weapon of each element is bad design is just being opinionated.

SEGA apparently sees that it is bad design from how they targeted dual blades with this break stance skill specifically.

Before you mention ancient oath, having a weapon of each element for the sake of ancient oath isn't bad because it's a potential on two weapons per category tops, and is less than a 10% damage gain compared to a generic JA/stance boosting weapon assuming similar stats. The player has a choice to use a different weapon within the category and not hinder themselves by a huge margin.

Ele stance, though same in function, is a 20 point skill that could mean a difference of ~30% damage, and for a BO's blades, is like every pair of blades being sange/yasha, and you must satisfy them, or you get nothing. The player has no real choice.

It is pretty bad design to impose that on one class' weapon category with no mechanic to support that inherently.

The only reason ele stance is in average stance's position right now is because there's no choice. Compared to break stance, it's closer to that ideal, but that's not saying much!

[LonelyGaruga]

SEGA apparently sees that it is bad design from how they targeted dual blades with this break stance skill specifically.

If they saw it as bad design, then they would fix it. Instead they added a skill so bad it's almost worthless.

If they think it's bad design, then they're too incompetent to figure out how to fix it, because that does pretty much nothing to address the problem. Bouncer has almost inarguably the worst skill tree in the entire game. Break Stance would have to be comparable to or better than Elemental Stance in terms of average damage to be worth using instead of Elemental Stance. And that would make Elemental Stance almost completely redundant, and make Break Stance Average Stance with better damage on breakable parts (which is pretty stupid).

Right now, I'm going to have to go with what was said earlier, that it just makes Dual Blades more user friendly while a player collects a rainbow set. That is seriously the best use for the skill as it is right now. Keep in mind, whether or not you use Elemental Stance, most classes get the best damage output by getting rainbow species hunting latents or Ancient Oath stuff, so if you were playing optimally, you'd get a rainbow set of Dual Blades either way. Though Soul Rending Stance is a pretty clear outlier for the norm as far as damage from potentials goes...

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

If they saw it as bad design, then they would fix it. Instead they added a skill so bad it's almost worthless.

I'd chalk that up to


If they think it's bad design, then they're too incompetent to figure out how to fix it




Break Stance would have to be comparable to or better than Elemental Stance in terms of average damage to be worth using instead of Elemental Stance. And that would make Elemental Stance almost completely redundant, and make Break Stance Average Stance with better damage on breakable parts (which is pretty stupid).

Break SD bonus can remain weaker than ele stance on unbreakable parts, just like how weak stance is stronger for the fewer scenarios is can be employed over average, or wise stance over brave, and it would still be worth using for dual blades. Something should exist under full optimization which is the point I think you're missing.

What makes this break stance skill not worth using is it being main class only first and foremost on top of being weaker than ele stance, which costs players far more than just the damage gap between break sd bonus and ele stance. This is why I said it shouldn't be mainclass only, and they should give BO a real mainclass skill, like fields that increase damage by all players effected by them by 10% + persistent shifta/deband, or something to validate maining them instead of Fi for crit damage+limit break, or Hu's better stats+war brave.


That is seriously the best use for the skill as it is right now. Keep in mind, whether or not you use Elemental Stance, most classes get the best damage output by getting rainbow species hunting latents or Ancient Oath stuff, so if you were playing optimally, you'd get a rainbow set of Dual Blades either way Though Soul Rending Stance is a pretty clear outlier for the norm as far as damage from potentials goes...

This goes back to the 'other classes have a choice' statement I brought up earlier.

Bravers don't lose the value of 20 skill points. Bouncers do.
Bravers don't lose 30% of their damage using the wrong element ancient oath katana, or using a JA/average stance katana instead. Bouncers do.
Bravers don't have to use sange and yasha. Every dual blade may as well be called sange/yasha for a bouncer.

I could use the same examples for hunter's trident crusher, glorius wing, or anything else I'm forgetting to mention.


so if you were playing optimally, you'd get a rainbow set of Dual Blades either way

BO get's severely punished for non-optimal play (don't even think the word 'play' is right to use here since this is nothing like a Fo casting unspecced lightning techs over their specced fire techson an enemy weak to neither). There is no middle ground before full optimization, and makes dual blades the only weapon category that is absolutely mandatory to craft for on top of everything else. Forcing players to embrace TA meta tier optimization, or lose their 20 SP, and >30% of their damage for a weapon category is out of line with every other class that sees gains that appear far more linear than this.

Not everyone is willing, or has the means to do this.

Hunters that don't lose <10% of their damage
Bravers that don't lose <10% of their damage
Dual blade bouncers that don't lose 20SP, and >30% of their damage

This explains why DB bouncers appear to be are far more rare to me than JB bouncers despite the advantages blades have over boots. Many people see the skill tree, and simply don't want to deal with the BS to get decent value from their blades when they know they're either getting 100%, or ~70% out of them.

[kabutozero]

Im thinking of switching from ele to break stance if that new skill is at least 15 % ( on 20 % it's a set deal)

Why? UQ are at fault

with UQ and EH at least 12* are going to be way more common , because if not , why there would be 13* then? just to have 2 tier of unobtainable weapon? I thing the same thing that happened with 11* and SHAQ will happen here. Right now I have a multi elemental db palette but they are 10*. Depending on what potential and shet 12/13* get , it might become unsustainable to keep having a rainbow palette and 12/13* weapons unless you're very rich , which is not my case

And then , reading bumped , it seems UQ enemies will be full of breakable parts , both bosses and normal enemies. That smells like win to me for break stance

[KazukiQZ]

^Yes, it will be 15% damage on non-breakable parts, but it's main class and DB only.

[kabutozero]

Which is just what i'm playing XD

I'm not thinking of not using hu on UQ

[Nitro Vordex]

That knuckle skill.

Megalame sauce.

[Kondibon]

I think they just did it because they wanted skills for all 3 fighter weapons and couldn't think of anything else. I think I would have prefered something that increases the I-frames on the knuckle dodge or something though.

On the other hand I'm glad none of them are straight damage bonuses.

[Maenara]

The knuckle skill should have doubled the amount of obtainable gear, meaning it takes twice as much to fill the gauge, but a filled gauge provides twice the effect, IE, double the speed bonus.

[Syklo]

The knuckle skill should have doubled the amount of obtainable gear, meaning it takes twice as much to fill the gauge, but a filled gauge provides twice the effect, IE, double the speed bonus.

Knuckle Gear Boost - 1 level - subclass can use - Knuckle Gear gauge +100%<DOuble?)

Uhh.....exactly?

[Dugs]

No, they meant it TAKES twice as long to fill but your ATTACKS speed up even further.

[Keilyn]

Reading posts here...

If SEGA wanted to fix this game, they wouldn't allow a class like Ranger to simply be able to throw in Weak Bullet (which alone gives you higher multipliers on a single point than entire other classes spending all their points), and then follow up with Satellite Beams or whatever to destroy bosses ridiculously fast.

I've seen plenty of youtube videos were newbs try to show off how great they are by just running around and simply crushing shit on Ranger. Those videos do not impress me at all considering its level 70/70 players picking mostly on Level 63 - 65 bosses..

I guess the way it works is "pick your bullshit move and stick with it" which is why I do what I can to not fall under the bullshit trap and minimize it. Block one bullshit move and people simply will flock to the next...just like in Phantasy Star Universe.

I don't know about any of you, but I like to fight...and to me if I get my ass kicked in a very good way to learn something, I am still happy and might even blog about it or talk about it with friends too.

In other words, my expectation is to be able to fly through the trash mobs and become satisfied by actually reaching the end and expecting a nice thrashing boss fight where the boss actually tries to kill you and destroy your into pieces. Its what I live for.....and sometimes I make challenges here and there to handicap myself to certain bosses.

Of course the chances that SEGA will give us a true DARK SOULS difficulty level is probably as great as the Japanese becoming non-xenophobic any time soon. ^_^

[Maenara]

No, they meant it TAKES twice as long to fill but your ATTACKS speed up even further.

Precisely.

[The Walrus]

Reading posts here...

If SEGA wanted to fix this game, they wouldn't allow a class like Ranger to simply be able to throw in Weak Bullet (which alone gives you higher multipliers on a single point than entire other classes spending all their points), and then follow up with Satellite Beams or whatever to destroy bosses ridiculously fast.

I've seen plenty of youtube videos were newbs try to show off how great they are by just running around and simply crushing shit on Ranger. Those videos do not impress me at all considering its level 70/70 players picking mostly on Level 63 - 65 bosses..

I guess the way it works is "pick your bullshit move and stick with it" which is why I do what I can to not fall under the bullshit trap and minimize it. Block one bullshit move and people simply will flock to the next...just like in Phantasy Star Universe.

I don't know about any of you, but I like to fight...and to me if I get my ass kicked in a very good way to learn something, I am still happy and might even blog about it or talk about it with friends too.

In other words, my expectation is to be able to fly through the trash mobs and become satisfied by actually reaching the end and expecting a nice thrashing boss fight where the boss actually tries to kill you and destroy your into pieces. Its what I live for.....and sometimes I make challenges here and there to handicap myself to certain bosses.

Of course the chances that SEGA will give us a true DARK SOULS difficulty level is probably as great as the Japanese becoming non-xenophobic any time soon. ^_^

But Dark Souls is easy.

[KatsuraJun]

Japanese aren't any more xenophobic than we are.

Dark Souls bosses are (usually) the most underwhelming part of the game difficulty wise.

If you wanted "Dark Souls" level difficulty the trash mobs would be the most annoying part where you'd get ganked by traps and pitfalls until you finally map out the entire area in your head, avoid every hidden enemy/pitfall/trap and try not to die to the boss because it's a pain in the ass to walk all the way back.

The bosses in the souls series *can't* be too hard because the level design is meant to be a callback to old school RPG kind of stuff where the game actively tries to get you killed in ways you probably can't see coming unless you just wise up to the kind of traps it sets. (a glowy thing next to a bunch of skeleton in a dead end might just be a trap, and a narrow pathway might mean some big dude with a sword is gonna try to knock you off.)

And if the bosses were really insanely hard to beat, trying to make it through the level half a hundred times would drive someone insane.

I'll even go a step further and say some of the bosses in PSO2 are honestly more challenging than the ones in the souls series. Not saying that much considering shit like Adjucator and Leechmonger existed though.

[HeyItsTHK]

Of course the chances that SEGA will give us a true DARK SOULS difficulty level is probably as great as the Japanese becoming non-xenophobic any time soon. ^_^

Difficult things are only difficult until they stop being difficult.

While this is obvious. I mean to say the oh so famous "Dark Souls Difficulty" is only temporary. When you get better/smarter/adjusted, it's no longer difficult. Difficulty doesn't scale with skill and knowledge, which is what makes making difficult difficulty....difficult. :)

I enjoyed writing this reply.

[Zorua]

Dang, they're even going for the dead threads

[isCasted]

Darn, it's 7.5 hours too early...

[Naoya Kiriyama]

Funnily enough, it's almost a year since this update lol