Yet another idea to make maining Techer more interesting

[Drazn42]

Exactly what it says on the tin. Techer is a great idea but very poorly executed.

Edit: PLEASE people. I have been playing PSO2 since EP3 came out. YES I know Techer is currently god-tier levels of OP. But lets agree on this one thing: Its boring. This thread is about interesting and fun ideas to make Techer... well... more fun. So if you agree read on, if you disagree, i respect your opinion, but please keep it to yourself to avoid derailing this thread any more than it already has been. Anyway...

So here is my ideal changelog for a patch to Techers ^^


"Wand gear now has 5 stages and is built up by normal Wand Attacks with each stage increasing your attack speed, the length of your combos and the range of your normal attacks by 20%, 1 stage and 0.5 meters respectively. With all 5 stacks you attack at twice the normal speed, your combos have 8 unique animations and your range extends to an additional 2.5 meters, complete with a 'lightsaber' effect the color of your weapon's current element.

Wand Gear charges do not decay, they can only be spent and are lost on an area change.

Wand Gear now also allows for Charged Wand Attacks (just hold the attack button until the 'ting' just like with techs.) Wand Gear Charges increase the Charge Speed and the speed of the attack animation. Charged Wand Attacks cost PP to deal double damage, generate substantially more Wand Gear, and cause the wand explosion we are so familiar with. Except for balance Wand gear explosions are now pure Tech damage that no longer get bonuses from Satk stuff like Fury Stance. The reasons for that will become clear when you read the new Wand Reactor.

The Wand Lovers skill is renamed Photon Combat and is made a passive (As in not a stance anymore.) It increases your basic attack damage by its normal amount, and enables the use of Step, Step Attack and the wand's new pallet ability (see below.) Photon Combat will also change your weapon's element to that of the last used offensive tech and at max level will give you 0.15 seconds of extra I-frames while Stepping (The usual cap of 0.20 seconds still applies.)

Wands themselves cannot have Techniques bound to their pallets until you have chosen the Photon Combat skill. Shift will cycle between the three bound techniques, meaning you will always have Attack bound to the left mouse.

The reason for this is that techniques cast from the wand's pallet no longer require charge times, and instead spend Wand Gear charges and cost 150% the normal amount of PP to cast in exchange for casting at full charge at uncharged speed (The casting animation is also sped up by your Wand Gear charges before the charge is spent at the end of the animation.) If you have no Wand Gear, you cannot cast a tech from the wand's pallet, just like if you lack the PP. Techs can still be cast from the sub-pallets as normal. The techs cast from the Wand's Pallet count both as a Charged and as a Uncharged tech (Just to keep Elysion relevant, yah know ;3)

Wand Reactor now (at max level) causes 50% of ALL bonuses to Striking Damage to also apply to tech damage, and 50% of ALL bonuses to Tech Damage to also apply to Striking Damage (This means things like Fury Stance as well as your Satk stat will provide bonus Tech Damage, and vice versa for things like Elemental masteries and charged tech bonuses (a charged Wand Attack is considered a charged tech for example. This also includes relevant Weapon Potentials, such as Elysion which would increase the damage of normal wand attacks)

A new passive called Chain Reaction will have 5 levels and will allow you to strike up to 4 additional hit boxes on the same target. The additional hits will not cause damage with normal attacks normally, but will trigger with Charged Wand Attacks, causing Tech Explosions on all the additional hitboxes for massive damage to large targets.

Because these skills are so build-enabling, Wand Gear, Photon Combat, Wand Reactor and Chain Reaction are now their separate part of the tree that can be taken in that order without having to spend points in anything else.

Wand Gear, Photon Combat, Wand Reactor and Chain Reaction are also Main Class Only skills.

Territory PP Save also reduces the cost of techs cast from the Wand Pallet by twice as much as it normally would, to maintain it's effectiveness."


There, that's how, with minimal amount of work needed on SEGA's part, you can make Techer much more interesting than it is.

At-least that's my opinion. What do you guys think? What would you do differently?

[qoxolg]

I think with EP3, Techer is much more in the right direction. With the annoying fist pumping gone, the class became a lot more enjoyable to play. Also support is now pretty good as a Techer, with 3 minutes Shifta and Deband in a single cast, Shifta Strike, Deband Toughness, Deband Cut and Super Treatment, without sacrificing anything in the melee multipliers.

What I would do:
1. Not further increase the power of wand normal attacks, considering it costs no PP.
2. Nerf the effectiveness of Zondeel by making it more risky. Currently Zondeel > Smack has close to zero risk. This could be done by either shortening the duration of the suction, make less enemies ' movable' or make enemies more aggressive so they will attack you the second you suck them in. Maybe a bit of all?
3. Give Wand PA's to compensate for 2. For this to work, they'd also have to rebalance the power of wand normal attacks, or else there would be no point in using the PA's.

[Selphea]

Wouldn't mind if they copy pasted the Gunslash PAs and changed the shooting parts to fire out blue gunk like Bouncer DBs do, except TATK-based.

[LonelyGaruga]

That would be a complete waste. Plus wands do techs just fine. Don't know why people keep saying they should get PAs.

I do love how the OP gives all these extensive changes that would require completely reprogramming wands and then says at the end that it would take minimal work from Sega. Like most fix threads, it really does not come off as something actually considering what's currently in the game. Just another thread about how a person wants the class to be like.

[Touka]

Don't know why people keep saying they should get PAs.

Because that's all you do with wand gear,just keep using normal attacks.Basically Jet Boots are what I want for wands but since boots are out i'm not sure if they would add unique photon arts to wands.I'd just like another way to use wand gear really.

[sol_trigger]

just give Techer these skills : "melee lover" + "melee reactor" >>> done

[Arksenth]

Techer is already one of the most bullshit insane classes in the entire game. I can KO an entire mob spawn in one smack. Even bosses drop like flies, regardless of what you do - I can kill Quartz in 8 seconds with Banish Arrow and Gimegid, or keep Banthers in permanent break-stun with wand smacks.

Doesn't really need buffs.

[LonelyGaruga]

Because that's all you do with wand gear,just keep using normal attacks.

There's something wrong with that? Wand damage is already extremely competent. Each hit is roughly 400 power notation, and Techer provides, by itself, a 1.84x bonus to wand damage (both strikes and WG). Hunter gives 1.76x to its weapons, for comparison.

It's pretty easy to exceed 20K per hit on weak points, and not too difficult to exceed 30K on weak points like Vibras' rear. With the speed wands already have and the damage they're doing, the only thing PAs have to provide without making Techer even better than it already is would be range, and techs already cover that.

To give an example, the fastest TD ARKS Grand Prix video I could find for Techer was 1:46 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24508492). The fastest Fi/Bo video I could find was 1:37 (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24445983). 9 seconds. Very minimal difference. Techer can compete effectively with a very viable class combination without PAs.

Of course, Attack Advance being restricted to normal attacks might actually make wand normals superior to whatever PAs they were given in the first place.

Seriously, can everyone stop with the fix Techer threads? It's been fixed for months. Stop pretending otherwise.

[Xaelouse]

Needs a charge attack on its normals for BR stances

[LonelyGaruga]

I hope that's sarcasm. Wand normals hit roughly 10K before taking into account weak points already as is, whether you're Te/Hu, Te/Fi, or Te/Br.

[Keilyn]

That would be a complete waste. Plus wands do techs just fine. Don't know why people keep saying they should get PAs.

I do love how the OP gives all these extensive changes that would require completely reprogramming wands and then says at the end that it would take minimal work from Sega. Like most fix threads, it really does not come off as something actually considering what's currently in the game. Just another thread about how a person wants the class to be like.

Wands are already powerful as hell.

I run around floating continent (I know only level 63 right) killing things on Ex-Wand under normal attack as fighter/techer. With ultimate coming in, if weapons become elemental weapons and the grind rate allows for +100% ATP (I say ATP when I mean all attack) and it starts at 1000.....

...we are talking about players who will be willing to take a wand, grind it up to +40 for 2000 ATP, then use wand reactor to have +800 ATP added to it for +2800 ATP. On top of it there would be some killer potential and the Tech damage also will be insane...

Then if 13* crafting came out...and people wanted an element on it (if it started neutral) they would built for 50% element using the element to start at 10% I think?) so in the end....

We would have 4000 - 5000 S-ATK on a wand, with 50%....you can kiss all of those enemies on XH dead in one normal attack or Just attack, and we havent talked about affixes. Im im talking about over double increase...

...I mean shit...I practically walk up to SH bosses and just wand wack them to death. I had to learn to use Fighter Weapons to keep myself from being bored at destroying Banshees and Banthers in seconds....

[LonelyGaruga]

I don't understand why you're replying to me specifically. If you're trying to explain wands are powerful, that's what I've been saying these last few posts. I play two different characters solely as Techer (one S-ATK, one T-ATK, Hunter/Fighter subclasses respectively), and I've been doing the same stuff you describe for quite a while. I know wand damage is good. That's why I waste my time bickering with every moron that still hasn't caught up with EP3's rebalance and thinks Techer is still the horrible class it used to be.

A lot of your post about Ultimate is purely speculative. We don't know if OP potentials will come out. The elemental weapons bit makes no sense. Grind rate has already been observed to be lower for 13*s for the first grind than it should be if it was going to be 200%. We don't know if wands will have such high base attack, or if any 13* wands will be released in the first place. Crafting weapons does not allow you to add an element to a weapon that doesn't have an element, so there's two layers of speculation on that one. We don't know if XH enemies will not be bulky enough to require that kind of ATK stat in the first place. Affixes will not even add close to double the amount of ATK you would have with 13*s if they had such absurd damage output in the first place, unless new affixes were added.

Please, fact check.

Btw, Loveless One can already get over 4000 S-ATK with Te/Fi or Fi/Te.

[Touka]

Garuga:There's nothing wrong with wand damage at all,it's very strong like others mentioned.My point is that it's also pretty dull,i'd like some added flair to wands that's all.

[Rakurai]

It would be nice if there was a way to consume Wand gear for some purpose while using Wand Lovers.

It basically only exists for those strange players who like using wands without Wand Lovers now.

[Drazn42]

...Like most fix threads, it really does not come off as something actually considering what's currently in the game. Just another thread about how a person wants the class to be like.

That is EXACTLY what this thread is. Its not a 'lets fix Techer' thread. its a 'Lets make it more interesting' thread. It by definition has nothing to do with whats in the game. Its what we would LIKE to be in the game.

I was quite depressed to log on to see pretty much everyone who posted on this thread think that is what I meant.

The goal here was to make Techer interesting and fun to play compared to spamming left mouse or casting techs. (at which point your basically playing a Fo/Te but with different skill trees and a different mobbing tech that just happens to involve pressing 2 buttons to win.)


I do love how the OP gives all these extensive changes that would require completely reprogramming wands and then says at the end that it would take minimal work from Sega.

What i meant is that if SEGA decided to buckle down and redesign the whole class, which is what would be needed to introduce enough interesting stuff to make it interesting, this is the shortest route to that being just reprogramming what is already there and/or adding some extra animations. Hell even that last bit would just be the icing on the cake.

So please, can we get some discussion on how to make Techer FUN rather than how OP it is. And stop worrying about the balance of it all, that part can be worked out later, what mechanics would YOU want to see that would make Techer more interesting to play outside of left-click spam and normal tech casting.

And how much did you agree with the ideas that I posted, as so far no-body has even commented on them -.-

[strikerhunter]

That is EXACTLY what this thread is. Its not a 'lets fix Techer' thread. its a 'Lets make it more interesting' thread. It by definition has nothing to do with whats in the game. Its what we would LIKE to be in the game.
Honestly that's still the same.


I was quite depressed to log on to see pretty much everyone who posted on this thread think that is what I meant.
Primarily because everyone doesn't like one player being the one "in charge" of changes. No offense, just stating the obvious.



The goal here was to make Techer interesting and fun to play compared to spamming left mouse or casting techs. (at which point your basically playing a Fo/Te but with different skill trees and a different mobbing tech that just happens to involve pressing 2 buttons to win.)

Thing is, why make changes to a class that's already good enough to compete with other classes? As far as I'm concern just about every class in pressing 2-3-4 buttons win.

Yea I understand that you want to make the class fun but your definition of fun/interesting may differ from others.

As for redesigning the class, might as well redesign the entire game so things remain closely "balance" as possible (whatever Sega's definition balance is). All that can be really down are nerfs/buffs and new skill additions.

[Drazn42]

Honestly that's still the same.

No, making a class fun has nothing to do with actually making it viable, which is what the term 'Fix' in this case means. Lets please stop thinking in these terms. This is simply a wishlist thread for interesting ideas.


Primarily because everyone doesn't like one player being the one "in charge" of changes. No offense, just stating the obvious.

What? Who said anything about me or anyone else being in charge of the changes? I just posted a list of ideas I've had for a while now about making Techer more fun, and now i'm 'in charge?'

I would love to be able to do SOMETHING to Techer, but...

Yea I understand that you want to make the class fun but your definition of fun/interesting may differ from others. this is EXACTLY why i said at the end of my post: "At-least that's my opinion. What do you guys think? What would you do differently?" Because that's what I wanted this thread to be: Interesting ideas from lots of people, so we can find some common ground.


Thing is, why make changes to a class that's already good enough to compete with other classes? As far as I'm concern just about every class in pressing 2-3-4 buttons win.

And this is EXACTLY my problem with PSO2. This game has so much potential, it has a kick-ass engine, the art design is excellent, combat is fluid and satisfying even when you are just pressing one button to win. But it is let down hugely by a extremely poorly handled back-end of skills and abilities that need some serious work to improve.

In short, I think ALL classes weapons etc need this sort of attention, but you have to agree that currently with the meta as it is that spamming one or two things until things die is NOT interesting. I mean, i don't even have a huge issue with the meta for each class being just one thing, as long as it is an INTERESTING one thing.

I mean, look at how WoW is balanced, there is one way to play every class for each role pretty much, but that one way is varied and interesting due to the fact it involves a multitude of abilities all with different timings. I just want something like that, but in PSO2.

So please, ideas about how to make this one class fun, and lets keep away from how OP it is, the balance of other classes etc etc.

[Rayden]

Techer's already in a great place. I don't really want to see any significant changes to it, as I'm happy with where it is now.

I don't understand why people keep saying wands need to get PAs. They already do have PAs - they're called techs. There's no real difference between PAs and techs. They both cost PP to deal damage in varying ways. Is it just that people want an animation that looks like a melee attack? Is something that looks like a spell so terrible? I don't get it.

[Drazn42]

The problem Rayden is that is rather uninspired. Techer is pretty much just a slightly different way of playing a Force rather than a unique class in it's own regard.

PAs would also give meaning to Wand Gear which literally has no meaning with how Wand Lovers works atm. It would also give Te/Hu an edge against the other options since they would have other options to work with.

But personally, as i noted in my OP, i would like Techs and Wand Gear to actually have an interaction...

Try to imagine the current balance of power for Techer, but you had more buttons to press. This would be more interesting, no?

[Selphea]

I suppose the idea is if you want to have PAs and techs you should be a Jet Boots Bouncer.

[strikerhunter]

Techer's already in a great place. I don't really want to see any significant changes to it, as I'm happy with where it is now.

I don't understand why people keep saying wands need to get PAs. They already do have PAs - they're called techs. There's no real difference between PAs and techs. They both cost PP to deal damage in varying ways. Is it just that people want an animation that looks like a melee attack? Is something that looks like a spell so terrible? I don't get it.

This is my stand on Te Draz. (for now that is)


The problem Rayden is that is rather uninspired. Techer is pretty much just a slightly different way of playing a Force rather than a unique class in it's own regard.
I don't understand how's it "uninspired"? As far as I can see it TE was meant to be excel what FO doesn't, which is support and melee combat.



PAs would also give meaning to Wand Gear which literally has no meaning with how Wand Lovers works atm. It would also give Te/Hu an edge against the other options since they would have other options to work with.
As fun as it would it be on paper, it would break the class completely and erase BO since BO already has availability to both PAs and Techs.



But personally, as i noted in my OP, i would like Techs and Wand Gear to actually have an interaction...
-I agree here, something like an extra tick/hit/explosion per gear level consume at the time present but since we have wand lover........yea that's out of the suggestion. As far as I'm concern with Wand Lover, it's just a stance that we only have to click once and say GGGGGGGGGGGGGGG. As for Wand Gear, nothing special unless you have Wand Lover so GG.



Try to imagine the current balance of power for Techer, but you had more buttons to press. This would be more interesting, no?
IMO No. Less is more. It be making TE fell like the general MMORPGs that have "hit-skill box" in a rotation order <---and that has a lot of restriction which removes the fun unless good synchronizing skills.
It'll be far too confusing to be fun if too much. Some synchronizing between the skills/buttons will be good and some will be bad but having too much available will render some things useless.

[Drazn42]

@Selphia
I suppose the idea is if you want to have PAs and techs you should be a Jet Boots Bouncer.

Yes, i do feel Bouncer is SEGA's way of giving up on Techer and trying again to acheive what they tried in the first place with them. Its also saddening to see it almost immediately fail... They will probably do a Braver with them and keep adding numbers until they are OP, and then they will erase Techer as strikerhunter mentioned the same way PAs for Techer would erase BO. The problem is that they are, in effect, the same class as far as Jet Boots are concerned anyway. Dual blades is just sort of... there. I really think it should have just been an extra Fighter weapon...

@strikerhunter
IMO No. Less is more. It be making TE fell like the general MMORPGs that have "hit-skill box" in a rotation order <---and that has a lot of restriction which removes the fun unless good synchronizing skills.
It'll be far too confusing to be fun if too much. Some synchronizing between the skills/buttons will be good and some will be bad but having too much available will render some things useless.

I agree that adding too much would indeed make it more complicated (Personally not an issue, but i can understand the desire for simplicity,) but even just a 2 part rotation of build gear > spend gear > repeat would be more interesting that mindless Left Mouse, Left Mouse, Left Mouse... I mean other classes even have this, like Hunter for example...


I don't understand how's it "uninspired"? As far as I can see it TE was meant to be excel what FO doesn't, which is support and melee combat.

Still in my opinion not that different a play-style. You substitute whatever mobbing tech you would use with Zondeel + Smack and occasionally cast shifta and deband. Doesn't seem to warrent an entire new class, when the relevant skills here can be fit into one line in the Force's tree.

At the very least a different way of casting techs or a different interaction with your weapon would warrant it's state as a separate class. Since Wand is basically a Rod but with an OP melee attack.

[LonelyGaruga]

Not seeing why every single weapon needs to have some crazy attacks. Personally, I like that wands only have their normal attacks for melee. PAs would be useless as it is now. Wand Gear doesn't need other functions.

It works. No need to change it just to satisfy yourself. I for one like a class that relies primarily on normals. Coming from MH, where every attack is pretty much a normal, wands, barring techs, come the closest to its design of any weapon. It's a very good combination of power and speed, only lacking in range. Which makes Techer even more of a high "risk" (nothing risky about it with Step, of course) close quarters combatant than Fighter is.

Opinions are opinions. Everyone has different ideas about how the game should be. Why make a thread about it discussing your ideas? You're just asking for criticism from anyone that feels that Techer is in a great spot right now. Keep your ideas to yourself and tell them to Sega if you care enough to share them.

[Ezodagrom]

In my opinion, the melee side of techer is fine currently, but the technic side is lacking outside of support. One thing I would like would be basically TE's version of ZRA, a boost to technic damage at very close range, this could make technic based TE/FO or TE/BO more interesting, I guess (of course this would have to be TE main class only, main class FO doesn't need any more boosts to technic damage).

[Drazn42]

Not seeing why every single weapon needs to have some crazy attacks...

Opinions are opinions. Everyone has different ideas about how the game should be. Why make a thread about it discussing your ideas? You're just asking for criticism from anyone that feels that Techer is in a great spot right now. Keep your ideas to yourself and tell them to Sega if you care enough to share them.

So now its wrong for me to make a thread looking for people with a similar opinion because people disagree with me?

Guess ill just go back to lurking and never post again because apparently if I dare post anything about something people will disagree about I should just shut up right?

//Sarcasm//

And also, with me not being Japanese and being unable to read/speak/write japanese it is pretty much impossible for me to give suggestions to SEGA until i finish my Japanese course...

Anyway i've just about given up on having anyone actually join in a discussion of the actual topic of this thread, since everyone seems to be more interested in how OP the class currently is, rather than how well designed it is...

[Drazn42]

In my opinion, the melee side of techer is fine currently, but the technic side is lacking outside of support. One thing I would like would be basically TE's version of ZRA, a boost to technic damage at very close range, this could make technic based TE/FO or TE/BO more interesting, I guess (of course this would have to be TE main class only, main class FO doesn't need any more boosts to technic damage).

As I understand it, Techer also does not need extra tech damage what with the current meta ^^

I am more of the opinion that mechanical changes are what is needed to make the class more interesting to play rather than more situational 10% damage bonuses, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

[Selphea]

Well part of it can be solved right now with subclass choice. Wand IMO is in an okay place as more on the tech side than the melee side of hybrids in function while Boots are closer to the melee side than tech side, so they give you the choice of which one you prefer.

I don't like Boots for pure teching because they use the melee weapon format of PA 1 changes to PA 2 changes to PA 3, so if you want to be sure you get the right tech, you have to spend the entire palette slot on it. On the other hand for Tech/PA combos it's nice to go PBAoE tech -> Moment Gale -> Shift (Moment gale whirlwind) -> Shift (Elemental Burst).

In that respect Wand's tech weapon format with melee capabilities IMO doesn't need changing, especially with Elysion. I still wouldn't mind doing Serpent Air juggle into Ilfoie or something though.

If you want to be a caster with PAs there's also the option of multiclass weapons with TATK like Gu/Fo with Madullard Varis using Chain Trigger with techs or Te/Br with Tenelifter using Banish Arrow with techs. The subclass sytem is flexible enough that you can find ways to work around some limitations. From the way your OP looks, it seems like you'd be happier with a Jet Boots Bouncer with a main/subclass that boosts both striking and tech damage like Braver or Fighter, or maybe simply crafting some cross class weapons as Techer main.

[Ezodagrom]

As I understand it, Techer also does not need extra tech damage what with the current meta ^^
I would agree with that before FO's Element Conversion skill was released. As it is now though, I disagree.
Not saying that TE should be as good at technic damage as FO, but that FO skill makes too much of a difference.


I am more of the opinion that mechanical changes are what is needed to make the class more interesting to play rather than more situational 10% damage bonuses, but whatever floats your boat I guess.
Of course something situational like this shouldn't be just a 10% damage boost (Gunner's ZRA is 2 skills that have a 15% boost each after all). IMO a skill like this would realy make sense for the TE class, encouraging the usage of close range techs, which would go well when mixed with the melee side of TE.

[LonelyGaruga]

Anyway i've just about given up on having anyone actually join in a discussion of the actual topic of this thread, since everyone seems to be more interested in how OP the class currently is, rather than how well designed it is...

This is why it's wrong for you to post. You don't get Techer. If you don't understand the class and how it works now, you shouldn't even consider changing it. Your lack of knowledge about the game's mechanics, how Techer currently functions, and whether people actually like it or not the way it is makes it quite arrogant to talk about it like this. You should have expected replies like this.

And for the record, there are more posts saying Techer is good just the way it is, not that it's OP. But it doesn't appear that you actually care about the state of the game's balance in the first place as long as Techer is this super cool pointlessly over the top class that is just so awesome to play with pointlessly flashy mechanics that would just kill its current practical but understated playstyle. Never mind calling Techer "Force with an OP melee", or whatever the exact wording was. Ridiculous exaggerations like that just hurt your case if you wanted to come off as knowing what you were talking about in the first place.

[Arksenth]

This is why it's wrong for you to post. You don't get Techer. If you don't understand the class and how it works now, you shouldn't even consider changing it. Your lack of knowledge about the game's mechanics, how Techer currently functions, and whether people actually like it or not the way it is makes it quite arrogant to talk about it like this. You should have expected replies like this.

And for the record, there are more posts saying Techer is good just the way it is, not that it's OP. But it doesn't appear that you actually care about the state of the game's balance in the first place as long as Techer is this super cool pointlessly over the top class that is just so awesome to play with pointlessly flashy mechanics that would just kill its current practical but understated playstyle. Never mind calling Techer "Force with an OP melee", or whatever the exact wording was. Ridiculous exaggerations like that just hurt your case if you wanted to come off as knowing what you were talking about in the first place.

This!!!

-sparkles prettily-

[Drazn42]

This is why it's wrong for you to post. You don't get Techer...

...But it doesn't appear that you actually care about the state of the game's balance in the first place as long as Techer is this super cool pointlessly over the top class that is just so awesome to play with pointlessly flashy mechanics that would just kill its current practical but understated playstyle.

...Ridiculous exaggerations like that just hurt your case if you wanted to come off as knowing what you were talking about in the first place.

I guess you missed all the times where i said:

"this is EXACTLY why i said at the end of my post: "At-least that's my opinion. What do you guys think? What would you do differently?" Because that's what I wanted this thread to be: Interesting ideas from lots of people, so we can find some common ground."

And

"In short, I think ALL classes weapons etc need this sort of attention, but you have to agree that currently with the meta as it is that spamming one or two things until things die is NOT interesting."

And

"Try to imagine the current balance of power for Techer, but you had more buttons to press. This would be more interesting, no?"

So, apart from the patently ridiculous "You don't GET techer" (Really? The game is not THAT complex... And I have been playing it since it's Japanese release and lurking these forums since the original PSO...)

A: I DO care about the games balance, but I ALSO care about it's mechanics. It is NOT impossible to change one while maintaining the other, but that wasn't even the POINT of this thread. And whether or not you think Techer is fine as is could have easily been expressed without derailing the entire thread, and completely ignoring the people who DO think it needs changed. Maybe you could even have argued for compromise, or if you disagreed entirely, at least explain in detail why (That said, several people who have posted did do this and I respect you guys for it.) Its not cool to tell me I'm biased while being biased yourself... The thread was just supposed to be about fun ideas not "You don't GET Techer" type arguments...

B: The whole game features super cool pointlessly flashy classes. Whats wrong with wanting Techer to follow suit? Sure if it was JUST Techer that got that attention then sure that would be suspect but again: "In short, I think ALL classes weapons etc need this sort of attention." Also, again, other classes were not the point of the thread.

C: I fail to see at what point I made a "Ridiculous exaggeration" while literally describing the current meta... And need I mention it wouldn't be relevant to the point of the thread anyway? If you thought I was missing a key element to the class, or I had the wrong perspective on something, or you simply disagreed with me, you would come off as a much more reasonable human being if you had calmly and levelly explained yourself, rather than using passive-aggressive language that just hurts your case of knowing what you were talking about in the first place. Which leads to me using the same language in this extremely frustrated response, and we get nowhere.

But considering this forum when it gets to this point, i'd be better off looking for somewhere else to post this. I was looking for some people to bounce fun ideas off about a game I liked, but all i'm getting is arguments... And "You don't GET Techer." Sorry. That one really tickled me.

[LonelyGaruga]

More or less, yes, I only glanced at your post because I got the basic idea of what the entire post would be like. It was a wishlist that pays no attention to the current design of the game, no heed to balance, and changes many things that are better off not being changed.

The problem with brainstorming and sharing ideas is that they have to be good ideas. This thread was not an example of one. Right now, there is very little to do that would, without question, improve Techer. None of your ideas were like that. It was just about changing Techer to suit your preferences. And most, if not all, ideas shared would be the same, tailored to that particular person.

Right here, the very first sentence of your post.


Exactly what it says on the tin. Techer is a great idea but very poorly executed.

This is where I get the impression you fail to understand Techer, despite your playtime. You treat your opinion as a fact, and you continue to do so with your edits. That, in itself, is an unpardonable offense when it comes to discussing changes with a game. Not helped by the majority of your ideas simply being unnecessary complications to gameplay that would take far more effort than it's worth to make playing Techer more of a hassle than anything else. Lengthened combos? Pointless flashiness. Changing how WG works? Pointless flashiness. Changing WG explosions themselves? Pointless flashiness. Pointless idea after pointless idea. It never stops. Uninspired ideas that are boring to read, knowing that you have absolutely no idea how to properly pull off all of this in a balanced fashion. It's no better than anything Sega pulls off, except they actually do all of the work, while you're just all talk.

Your ideas would be better off on a new class entirely, along with most "fix" threads. Which is why they're a sickening waste of creativity, directed toward misaimed causes. If you want to discuss ideas without any intention of implementing them, then you should have said that. If you wanted to actually discuss implementing them, you did a poor job of making things that would make sense to implement, and explaining why they should be in, not helped by a lack of consideration given to any possible balance issues your changes might cause.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about throughout your opening post. It's a completely fair assessment for me to say you don't get Techer, because nowhere did you give me reason to think you knew what you were talking about, unlike posts from guys like Gigawuts.

In short, you demonstrate a lack of understanding of what kind of effect the changes you describe would have on Techer, you demonstrate a lack of forethought about balance, and you demonstrate a lack of consideration that not everyone might think of Techer as boring or a poorly executed idea. That last one, by the way, is your biggest mistake, because it's an assumption. The very point of your changes is to make Techer "interesting". This requires Techer to be boring. That is an opinion. For anyone that disagrees with it, the thread is an eyesore.

It just so happens a lot of people think Techer is interesting or fun as it is. Who'd have thought people would disagree with your assumption?

[Gama]

tbh i think techer is fine, the only thing i wouldnt mind was if territory burst afected resta and buffs to a greater extent... but eh its already good.

[Drazn42]

@LonelyGaruga

Having gone around a read a lot of your other posts I have come to the conclusion that you seem to exact some sort of pleasure out of talking smack from the theory-crafted holy high ground that enables you to be the ultimate authority on everything in this game.

Its all very well and all for you to disagree with me, or call my efforts a "sickening waste of creativity," I don't personally care about what I or you do with our spare time, and I could probably pull some equally pointless rebuttal about how you commenting on every single post (pretty much) on this forum that you disagree with is a sickening waste of your time.

But to actually come into a thread about opinions, tell me that I treat my opinions as fact, then to list off your opinions in short succession and then label THEM as fact has made my lose all of the remaining respect I had for you.

Which is a shame since your grasp of the mechanics of the game appear very strong.

I get that you disagree with me, or that you think my ideas were 'pointless flashiness,' but I was honestly putting forward what I thought Techer needed to be more interesting to play.

I was putting forth an appeal and initial tribute to the open forum of ideas, to see what would stick and what other people would come up with in a purely hypothetical scenario (that is, the assumption that whatever we desired could be implemented, and made to be balanced against what already existed.) Perhaps i did not stress that hard enough, or was unclear, and for that I am sorry.

But, to quote your very first reply to this post:

"Just another thread about how a person wants the class to be like."

Considering the extremely sarcastic and demeaning tone of your entire reply you immediately made clear you had no interest in actually contributing anything to the goal of the post.

You had one goal from the get-go: To shut this thread down by derailing it with constant posts about how it is your opinion that Techer is fine and anyone arguing otherwise is an idiot and is only, after all, committing to a "sickening waste of creativity."

Fine, good, we got your point. Now F**k off.



@Everybody else that posted here

I get the general consensus that you believe Techer to be fine as is. And that's fine, I respect that. Coming from other MMOs such as WoW and games such as Magic: The Gathering I find highly complex and intricate systems of synergistic abilities/attacks/combos/whatever to be very interesting and compelling.

Techer interested me because it purports to be a Hybrid class, and Hybrid in my book means complex. Techer as it stands is anything but however and I deem that to be a failure.

However, I understand the desire for a simple but effective play-style even if I am not of the same mind, and changing it to suit myself is, as a certain person mentioned, not going to appeal to those people.

I will look elsewhere for like minds on this subject, and will return to lurking this forum since my frustration with some of it's denizens has reached it's peak.



So rest assured LonelyGaruga. You shan't be seeing me again. And I can guess your thoughts on this:

"Yes, another idiot bites the dust."

So I will leave you with this sentiment:

You are a despicable person, practically the mascot of all the reasons this forum catches so much flak for being extremely opinionated, intolerant and poisonous because you are all three of these things.

Toodles~