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View Full Version : JP PSO2 Regarding XH+ULT and balance. - Update ULT Drop info<Sega being Sega>



Sizustar
Nov 18, 2014, 06:28 PM
Too lazy to do all, so I'll just list the important part.
But shortly after the live broadcast, Sega realized that people still have a lot of question, and seem to think that the "demo" play seem easy, they released these to address player concern.

-Diffculity - ULT > XH > SH

- ULT - If not a full 12 people MPA, and not equiped with right equip and PA/Tech/Skill and good team work, will be very hard to clear

- ULT and XH enemy health will be automaticly be 12 person MPA level(Even if you go in by yourself)

- Ult will have enemy with Strike/Range/Tech resistance(With a focus on Shooting and Tech resist)

- Because of the risk to melee player with Striking damage, Lv.17 PA have some that have bigger boost.

- Because of the higher danger to GU, Toughness time have been changed so that even if hit, won't reduce gear, but if knocked down, Gear will still reduce to zero, this will be addressed in a future update(Making it only reduce instead of dropping to zero?)

- Because XH is harder then SH, some boss will have Shooting/Tech resist

- Something about requiring more killing of Dark Falz hand to reach DF Eldar?

- Regarding drops -
-ULT - 1~6* Common drop 7~9* No drop, 10* Rare Drop, 11*~13* Very Rare drop

-XH - 12* weapon, Weapon will have none transferable ability called Ultimate Buster for increased damage on ULT.
- 17* PA/Tech disk, will drop from XH, and the disk that only drop from AD, will still only drop from XH AD.

- Enemy EXP from ULT will be lower then XH, because ULT is drop from 9*~13* only.

Source - http://pso2.jp/players/support/measures/?id=4797

BIG OLAF
Nov 18, 2014, 06:30 PM
ULT - If not a full 12 people MPA, and not equiped with right equip and PA/Tech/Skill and good team work, will be very hard to clear

I highly doubt this. Ultimate will be a murder-fest like everything else, just probably slightly slower. Slightly.

EvilMag
Nov 18, 2014, 06:38 PM
Wait you mean we have to wait for XHAQS just to get Lv17 discs for the PAs that only drop in SHAQs?

Sizustar
Nov 18, 2014, 06:40 PM
Wait you mean we have to wait for XHAQS just to get Lv17 discs for the PAs that only drop in SHAQs?

Disk that only drop in specific AQ and by Specific Rare boss, if hunting lv.17 Disk, will have to fight XH difficulity of those AQ and rare boss.

Selphea
Nov 18, 2014, 06:58 PM
T- Ult will have enemy with Strike/Range/Tech resistance(With a focus on Shooting and Tech resist)

Well that confirms what I asked a while back. So much for being "wrong".

KatsuraJun
Nov 18, 2014, 07:02 PM
so basically GU is even weaker

being GU is suffering

I should get back to working on BO

LonelyGaruga
Nov 18, 2014, 07:08 PM
Hm, this is strangely worded. Sega's bad at answering questions about their own game. Going through...

Ultimate quests are supposed to be difficult to clear...but if they're a point quest with no time limit, then the only way to fail is to party wipe. Even solo, this is basically like a gauntlet of XQs, but for free. It can't be as hard as it's described.

UQ/XH enemy health is the same no matter how many players are present. OK. Simple enough. But that's how all quests work. There's a higher chance of getting titled bosses with more players, but that's about it. The only thing that has ever changed in the past was enemy spawn density. Why would enemy health being the same need to be specified?

Sega says melee classes have the greatest risk in combat, but they have the best dodge action and the best HP already, and both Gunner and Techer operate in melee range, but get penalties anyway. The buffed PA damage also hurts Techer since wand melee doesn't have levels, so other classes are getting buffs to their main offense while Techer is left behind. Granted, Techer is already really good as far as damage goes, but it matters when they've claimed they want Techer to be a frontline fighter. It's another way they're not delivering on their word.

Increasing Falz Arm kill count necessary to fight Elder is something that was done before. I guess we're still slaughtering them too quickly? Seems strange to not wait until the new difficulty to see if it's a change that's warranted. It's not a big change since the only thing that will really happen by doing this is changing the music that plays for each fight (slowed down phases = not hitting song 4 as quickly, meaning more time to listen to 1-3), so it's no big deal, but it does make me wonder whether they're really weighing in on whether it's necessary to do that or not. I highly doubt that it'll ever make Falz Elder impossible to fight, so it's no big deal, but still.

Ultimate has been shown dropping 7*s in the livestream. Either that information about drops is false (at least for Rappies), or the livestream was inaccurate even to drops for UQ. Major fail on Sega's part either way, to show 7*s dropping and then say they'll never drop in UQs.

Confirmation of XH AQs coming up? Cool.

Overall, useful information, but some of it is useless/contradictory. But that's how most stuff Sega says goes anyway.

Raujinn
Nov 18, 2014, 07:38 PM
Well it didn't take long to back to the old habit of stupid spikes in PA power at arbitrary levels. It may not be as bad as before at least.

untrustful
Nov 18, 2014, 07:38 PM
Ultimate buster is nontransferable? WHY!?!

Sizustar
Nov 18, 2014, 07:40 PM
Hm, this is strangely worded. Sega's bad at answering questions about their own game. Going through...

Ultimate quests are supposed to be difficult to clear...but if they're a point quest with no time limit, then the only way to fail is to party wipe. Even solo, this is basically like a gauntlet of XQs, but for free. It can't be as hard as it's described.

UQ/XH enemy health is the same no matter how many players are present. OK. Simple enough. But that's how all quests work. There's a higher chance of getting titled bosses with more players, but that's about it. The only thing that has ever changed in the past was enemy spawn density. Why would enemy health being the same need to be specified?

Sega says melee classes have the greatest risk in combat, but they have the best dodge action and the best HP already, and both Gunner and Techer operate in melee range, but get penalties anyway. The buffed PA damage also hurts Techer since wand melee doesn't have levels, so other classes are getting buffs to their main offense while Techer is left behind. Granted, Techer is already really good as far as damage goes, but it matters when they've claimed they want Techer to be a frontline fighter. It's another way they're not delivering on their word.

Increasing Falz Arm kill count necessary to fight Elder is something that was done before. I guess we're still slaughtering them too quickly? Seems strange to not wait until the new difficulty to see if it's a change that's warranted. It's not a big change since the only thing that will really happen by doing this is changing the music that plays for each fight (slowed down phases = not hitting song 4 as quickly, meaning more time to listen to 1-3), so it's no big deal, but it does make me wonder whether they're really weighing in on whether it's necessary to do that or not. I highly doubt that it'll ever make Falz Elder impossible to fight, so it's no big deal, but still.

Ultimate has been shown dropping 7*s in the livestream. Either that information about drops is false (at least for Rappies), or the livestream was inaccurate even to drops for UQ. Major fail on Sega's part either way, to show 7*s dropping and then say they'll never drop in UQs.

Confirmation of XH AQs coming up? Cool.

Overall, useful information, but some of it is useless/contradictory. But that's how most stuff Sega says goes anyway.

Yeah, alot of stuff doesn't make sense, seems like the person typeing that is just typing down stuff from a phonecall?

We'll see when the game is up, and see if it's true or not.

Xaeris
Nov 18, 2014, 07:43 PM
- Ult will have enemy with Strike/Range/Tech resistance(With a focus on Shooting and Tech resist)


What do you have against Gunners, Sega?

pkemr4
Nov 18, 2014, 07:45 PM
- Regarding drops -
-ULT - Nothing below 9*, Low chance of 10*, 11*~13* are the rarest

-XH - 12* weapon, Weapon will have none transferable ability called Ultimate Buster for increased damage on ULT.
- 17* PA/Tech disk, will drop from XH, and the disk that only drop from AD, will still only drop from XH AD.

- Enemy EXP from ULT will be lower then XH, because ULT is drop from 9*~13* only.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, 9* trash still gonna be l in loot table. sega never learns

Alandsmj
Nov 18, 2014, 07:46 PM
What do you have against Gunners, Sega?

Everything?

Shinamori
Nov 18, 2014, 07:50 PM
Why the FUCK are they having 9* in ULT.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 18, 2014, 07:50 PM
Yeah, alot of stuff doesn't make sense, seems like the person typeing that is just typing down stuff from a phonecall?

We'll see when the game is up, and see if it's true or not.

Oh, is that what it was? I thought this was like an official Sega information release. So the person that wrote all that stuff down probably wasn't familiar with the game then. That explains the inconsistencies. Thanks for that tidbit.

Sizustar
Nov 18, 2014, 07:53 PM
Oh, is that what it was? I thought this was like an official Sega information release. So the person that wrote all that stuff down probably wasn't familiar with the game then. That explains the inconsistencies. Thanks for that tidbit.

No, that's the official sega patch note.
But since the people that would be more familiar with the update are doing the live broadcast, this "Patch Note" seems really rushed, and only answered some question that people are asking sega through the player feedback, twitter and niconico.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 18, 2014, 08:08 PM
Oh. Well there goes any explanation for how inconsistent it is. Sega quality seems highly appropriate right about now.

Guess there really is nothing to do but wait for the update!

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 18, 2014, 08:16 PM
Why the FUCK are they having 9* in ULT.

To be fair:

-Mag food has to come from somehwere

-I guess that's SEGA actually throwing a bone to super unlucky non-premium people maybe...?

-I'm sure we're getting decent 9*s that outdo low, or probably even mid teir 10*s with this update, like how we've been getting 10*s that outdo very many 11*s like dio kalicizma

Shinamori
Nov 18, 2014, 08:31 PM
9* are like 1k.

Selphea
Nov 18, 2014, 08:33 PM
As long as they have good potentials, certain weapons (Daggers), builds (Fighter Crit + Craft Mastery) and/or gear setups (Saiki + Fevers) will be able to use those 9*s well.

sol_trigger
Nov 18, 2014, 08:36 PM
so, no 12* 13* for LEECHERS ? i like it !

LonelyGaruga
Nov 18, 2014, 08:41 PM
As long as they have good potentials, certain weapons (Daggers), builds (Fighter Crit + Craft Mastery) and/or gear setups (Saiki + Fevers) will be able to use those 9*s well.

The potential would be the only thing relevant here though, if you're crafting.

And it still won't outperform high end 10-13*s, which is the main issue with the prospect of 9*s dropping for more than just mag food purposes.

Xaelouse
Nov 18, 2014, 08:42 PM
Hunting for lvl17 discs because they give huge boosts again, man I really missed this part of the gameplay

Selphea
Nov 18, 2014, 08:52 PM
Afaik a crafted 8* Lightning Forblight with Craft Mastery is pretty much the best dual blade you can use vs machines right now, barring Niren Orochi with Break Stance on machines with breakables.

But yes that might change with 12*s and Ultimate does ignore racist weapons.

Xaelouse
Nov 18, 2014, 09:09 PM
12*s are nothing to worry about, since any significant gap they may leave between our current weapons will most likely be closed up in the next crafting update.
So it's just 13*s dropping randomly and I guess turning random players into gods of this game

Selphea
Nov 18, 2014, 09:14 PM
Do they have a track record of updating crafting recipes to keep up with weapons though? I joined in Ep3 so I have no idea about the history of PSO2 weapon extension.

Rakurai
Nov 18, 2014, 09:28 PM
Wonder what the potentials on the 13* weapons are. Just the raw attack stats and increased element are likely enough to make them significantly better then anything else in the game.

I'm assuming they'll probably be as rare as pre-nerf 12* Dark Falz Elder drops at minimum.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 18, 2014, 10:23 PM
Afaik a crafted 8* Lightning Forblight with Craft Mastery is pretty much the best dual blade you can use vs machines right now, barring Niren Orochi with Break Stance on machines with breakables.

But yes that might change with 12*s and Ultimate does ignore racist weapons.

Yeah, and most other weapon categories have 10-11*s that possess Hunter latents, with very few 7-9*s having Hunter latents that don't have a better equivalent higher up. And sometimes superior stats matter more than the potential. A crafted Guarditorch (20%) is inferior to an uncrafted Pristine Small Hammer (8%) against machines, for example.

Not all classes actually do well with Fighter main or Bouncer involved, so only a few weapons actually have relevant crafted 7-9*s. Dual Blades and Jet Boots were practically rigged for the Machine Hunter ones.


Wonder what the potentials on the 13* weapons are. Just the raw attack stats and increased element are likely enough to make them significantly better then anything else in the game.

I'm assuming they'll probably be as rare as pre-nerf 12* Dark Falz Elder drops at minimum.

I'm going to lol if it's a stronger Mental Alignment. Shit, why not leave it at Mental Alignment, no need for a stronger version! All of the 13*s shown so far are themed after PBs, so it'd be the most appropriate thematic choice! Please let me be wrong about this.

Your assumption is probably spot on, too. I'm betting on it as well. Though...gotta wonder about the screenshot. It had no element, but we know that rare items never drop without an element nowadays. And we've been told ~8*s won't drop in UQs, but we've seen Rappies drop 7*s. Makes me question whether the stats shown on that screenshot were actually accurate at all. Those may very well have been placeholder stats for the 13* sword.

Sizustar
Nov 18, 2014, 10:36 PM
And...they updated the UlLT drop info again..

SO now, it's 1~6* will still drop, 7~9* NO DROP, 10* Rare Drop, 11*~13* Very Rare Drop.

Rien
Nov 18, 2014, 10:48 PM
1-9* still drops in XH? Fuck that shit.

Mattykins
Nov 18, 2014, 10:51 PM
No, 7*-9* stars don't drop at all, it looks like. 10*+ drop, plus all of the common shit we've come to know and love

Vampy
Nov 18, 2014, 10:51 PM
So it's basically common drops and 10* up GG sega

Rien
Nov 18, 2014, 10:53 PM
No, 7*-9* stars don't drop at all, it looks like. 10*+ drop, plus all of the common shit we've come to know and love

I said XH, not Ultimate. No info on that.

Mattykins
Nov 18, 2014, 10:55 PM
Oh, XH? Yeah, probably the same shit as before :V

BIG OLAF
Nov 18, 2014, 11:10 PM
9* are like 1k.

Actually, most [striking] 9*s usually range anywhere from 9k-22k on Ship 2 nowadays, but are known to drop to the 3k-5k range once in a while.

Not sure about tech and range 9*s, but I'd imagine they're similar in trend.

RX-93
Nov 18, 2014, 11:19 PM
- ULT - If not a full 12 people MPA, and not equiped with right equip and PA/Tech/Skill and good team work, will be very hard to clear


So basically, Ship 2's baddies are going to drag us down and make Ultimate runs needlessly difficult? Lovely.

Sizustar
Nov 18, 2014, 11:19 PM
Actually, most [striking] 9*s usually range anywhere from 9k-22k on Ship 2 nowadays, but are known to drop to the 3k-5k range once in a while.

Not sure about tech and range 9*s, but I'd imagine they're similar in trend.

About that price, you can find 9* tech item for 2k, usually after a TD when people sell them quickly.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 18, 2014, 11:39 PM
And...they updated the UlLT drop info again..

SO now, it's 1~6* will still drop, 7~9* NO DROP, 10* Rare Drop, 11*~13* Very Rare Drop.

But...they showed 7*s drop.

What the hell Sega.

Rain Walker
Nov 18, 2014, 11:42 PM
Why the fuck would you add 1-6* drops in a quest which you mainly want people to go for drops over EXP? SEGA plis

Sizustar
Nov 18, 2014, 11:44 PM
But...they showed 7*s drop.

What the hell Sega.

Yes, and the text origionally said, Only Rare drop will appear aka. 9~10* common drop, 11* Rare drop, 12~13 Very rare drop.

Kondibon
Nov 18, 2014, 11:45 PM
Why the fuck would you add 1-6* drops in a quest which you mainly want people to go for drops over EXP? SEGA plisFodders.

KatsuraJun
Nov 18, 2014, 11:46 PM
Why the fuck would you add 1-6* drops in a quest which you mainly want people to go for drops over EXP? SEGA plis


Mag food.

Rain Walker
Nov 18, 2014, 11:53 PM
Fodders.

Sega is gonna sega so fodders are not an option :wacko: Still they can make it easier by dropping only 6* instead of the whole 1-6 :no:


Mag food.

Where dem 9* @ doe:bondage:

cheapgunner
Nov 18, 2014, 11:53 PM
Fodders.

Isn't that what AQs are for? And the fodders can even come with lvl 3 abilities to boot.


Mag food.

Isn't that what TDs and certain EQs like Falz are for? Drop loads of 7-9* weps to feed your mag with.

I can let this go if the fodders can have lvl 3 and up abilities on them somewhat regulary.

Kondibon
Nov 18, 2014, 11:56 PM
Isn't that what AQs are for? And the fodders can even come with lvl 3 abilities to boot.
We don't know what affix levels are gonna be dropping in UQs or how common 4+ slot stuff will be. I'm assuming it'll be better than the norm at least.

KatsuraJun
Nov 19, 2014, 12:01 AM
Isn't that what AQs are for? And the fodders can even come with lvl 3 abilities to boot.



Isn't that what TDs and certain EQs like Falz are for? Drop loads of 7-9* weps to feed your mag with.

I can let this go if the fodders can have lvl 3 and up abilities on them somewhat regulary.

I don't know about you, but I don't carry around useless shit weapons everywhere to feed my mag. I just give it stuff I find on the ground.


I don't even understand what the problem here is - 1-6*s not dropping isn't going to magically make you get more 10*+s.

It's going to make you get more meseta.

cheapgunner
Nov 19, 2014, 12:02 AM
We don't know what affix levels are gonna be dropping in UQs or how common 4+ slot stuff will be. I'm assuming it'll be better than the norm at least.

I suppose that makes sense. Im hoping the meseta drops are close to Xtreme Quest lvls so they are a bit more worth it. I don't think since '05 playing psu on 360 that I've gotten one of the top rarest weps from a big update before on day of update so Im hoping I get one this go around.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 19, 2014, 12:05 AM
Red boxes in SH already give IV affixes, so I think it'd be safe to assume those would drop normally in UQs. We might even see V affixes.

Rakurai
Nov 19, 2014, 07:02 AM
So the 13* star weapons really do have those insanely high stats they did in the trailer.

Lambda grinders can only be obtained using the currency from Zieg's weekly COs or by spending 50 excubes on one, though (Who in their right mind would actually do that, I have no clue).

kabutozero
Nov 19, 2014, 07:26 AM
so wait , why the heck does the "Quest only for drops" have so friggin low drop rates? And i'm not talking about 12* and 13* , I can understand they are rare. but about 10* and 11*. The bosses shoul drop a crapton of 10* at least with a 250 % ( ringa already does this ) because if not I'm not going to use my 250 % anymore and the drop will be even shittier LOL

rashoood
Nov 19, 2014, 07:31 AM
Ok i managed to get a 12* from XH but UQ doesnt seem like its gonna drop something good for me T_T even though i played it for like 3 hours or so with RDR boost

Rakurai
Nov 19, 2014, 07:44 AM
The unit drop rates from the rare Diabol Grissith seem pretty high, since I got two legs units on my first kill with 350% boosts active. Whether they're worth using or not is an entirely different story, as while they have high striking defense, they don't have strike resist (Range and tech resist instead), and only boost HP (Though by a sizable 120 per unit).

The thing hardly ever dies with all of its parts broken because of how much it moves around, though.

As for the other enemies, I've only gotten assorted junk 10* and 11* items, which makes me think it would probably be better to save my boosters for when a rare Grissith or Anga Fandarge shows up.

Limbo_lag
Nov 19, 2014, 08:21 AM
so wait , why the heck does the "Quest only for drops" have so friggin low drop rates? And i'm not talking about 12* and 13* , I can understand they are rare. but about 10* and 11*. The bosses shoul drop a crapton of 10* at least with a 250 % ( ringa already does this ) because if not I'm not going to use my 250 % anymore and the drop will be even shittier LOL

Welcome to PSO2, where the drops never drop and the price of everything is too damn high.

On a side note, I've found ULT mobs to do maybe ~20-30% more damage. They move around more, but the only real "challenge" is their tankiness. Takes a full 12/12 MPA to clear stuff efficiently.

Rakurai
Nov 19, 2014, 08:24 AM
The tankiness does make them a lot more annoying when you're trying to deal with a boss at the same time.

Moreso if you don't destroy the infection cores quickly, because after they power up to a certain point, they won't stagger until the core is destroyed.

On a side note, it seems like XH mode enemies have a chance to randomly drop any of the rare skill discs, as I got Na Zan and Glory Rain from random darkers in the city EQ.

GreenArcher
Nov 19, 2014, 08:32 AM
Aaaand people are already complaining about drop rates

"I played for 3 hours and didn't get my 13*!!"

Limbo_lag
Nov 19, 2014, 08:43 AM
But the drop rates are bad. Doesn't matter what mode, ULT/SH/VH it is. This is PSO2. That was a reason stuff like Susanos used to cost 50m+ (prior to white day, and pre-shunka nerfs).

GreenArcher
Nov 19, 2014, 09:06 AM
So we should be finding everything we want within 3 hours of server up? :roll:

People seem to think putting on rare boosts will yield results immediately. Sega is obviously aware of all the drop boosts you can stack, and the drop rates are set with this in mind.

Limbo_lag
Nov 19, 2014, 09:12 AM
But I wasn't referring to ULT only, I meant in general. Took me a year of falzing to get my first 11* from it, having run boosters for a large number of them. Still have 0 (zero) 12*+

I'd say the best time I've had for drops so far would have been wind and rain 2, during rare boost week, iirc. Now THAT eq dropped 11*s like candy.

wefwq
Nov 19, 2014, 09:17 AM
But I wasn't referring to ULT only, I meant in general. Took me a year of falzing to get my first 11* from it, having run boosters for a large number of them. Still have 0 (zero) 12*+

I'd say the best time I've had for drops so far would have been wind and rain 2, during rare boost week, iirc. Now THAT eq dropped 11*s like candy.
Running falzes for *11? I think that's your problem :wacko:

Sacrificial
Nov 19, 2014, 09:18 AM
Droprates are supposed to be shit otherwise super rares would be common.

rashoood
Nov 19, 2014, 09:21 AM
lol no no ofc i didnt expect a 13* XD but you know getting a 12* first thing in XH made me kinda think the drop rates are worse in UQ :P

Ordy
Nov 19, 2014, 09:40 AM
Droprates are supposed to be shit otherwise super rares would be common.

That's the main reason why I like pso1&2, rare drops. I love that feel when you see someone with the weapon you want, while you are farming the mob/boss like crazy to get one and it never drops even after a year ... or even better, when people remember your name just because you have a rare weapon? priceless.

IMO 12* are still way too common, and I'd love to see just ≈10 13* per ship max ... but looking at pso2 boards, that's not gonna happen (. _.)

GreenArcher
Nov 19, 2014, 09:42 AM
Gotta increase that sample size quite a bit before you can draw any conclusions.


But I wasn't referring to ULT only, I meant in general. Took me a year of falzing to get my first 11* from it, having run boosters for a large number of them. Still have 0 (zero) 12*+

I'd say the best time I've had for drops so far would have been wind and rain 2, during rare boost week, iirc. Now THAT eq dropped 11*s like candy.

That is how it's supposed to be. Those drops were rare for a reason, they were the strongest items when they were first introduced. When more 11*s were released, the falz 11*s were more accessible through tower defense drops. What do they go for now in player shops? Close to nothing. Not everybody is going to get the highest rarity items, hence.....the high rarity.

This is the cycle of MMOs / loot based games. New items are added which are very rare, and previous items are easier to obtain. 13*s should be the new falz 12* in that their drop rate is going to be absolute shit, but this is justfied by their power.

Z-0
Nov 19, 2014, 09:43 AM
Don't care about drop rates providing they're not behind temporary / restrictive walls.

You know, like Elder and Tower Defense.

Limbo_lag
Nov 19, 2014, 10:22 AM
Gotta increase that sample size quite a bit before you can draw any conclusions.



That is how it's supposed to be. Those drops were rare for a reason, they were the strongest items when they were first introduced. When more 11*s were released, the falz 11*s were more accessible through tower defense drops. What do they go for now in player shops? Close to nothing. Not everybody is going to get the highest rarity items, hence.....the high rarity.

This is the cycle of MMOs / loot based games. New items are added which are very rare, and previous items are easier to obtain. 13*s should be the new falz 12* in that their drop rate is going to be absolute shit, but this is justfied by their power.

I dunno, IMO they should boost it, if not by a small amount. Stuff like Orochis which had, what? less than 20-30 drops a week? is pretty ridiculous. Especially since they cant be traded/sold/bought, and also especially since you'd need at least 2 of the same rarity item to 50% it. This game seems to draw a very fine line between "so rare you'll never get it", and "so common that its worthless", with little in-between.

Its just disheartening as all hell when you hunt something for ages and ages and never get it. I reckon the portable series hit a good spot with regard to drop rates.

jooozek
Nov 19, 2014, 10:42 AM
i thought segac would have learned from SHAQs but seems like they just didnt
not gonna spend my time getting little to no exp while getting salt in face in the uq
fuck that shit

EvilMag
Nov 19, 2014, 11:00 AM
tbh I wouldn't mind the rates so much if I could just buy the 12*s.

Alma
Nov 19, 2014, 11:01 AM
anyone know the stat of diabolic unit? individual stat per piece and set stat bonus?



also find these on mmoloda

[SPOILER-BOX]http://mmoloda.com/pso2/image/47225.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

dat ATK stat....

Xaelouse
Nov 19, 2014, 11:12 AM
Hmm that attack stat isn't as high as I thought and the potential means you may never use a PB without losing damage
On the plus side, anyone that manages to 60 element it means it'll have a definite edge over everything else for sure.

Maenara
Nov 19, 2014, 11:33 AM
What's the potential?

gigawuts
Nov 19, 2014, 11:37 AM
That's the main reason why I like pso1&2, rare drops. I love that feel when you see someone with the weapon you want, while you are farming the mob/boss like crazy to get one and it never drops even after a year ... or even better, when people remember your name just because you have a rare weapon? priceless.

IMO 12* are still way too common, and I'd love to see just ≈10 13* per ship max ... but looking at pso2 boards, that's not gonna happen (. _.)

No - PSOep1&2 was good because it had mixed rarity rares.

You had good, performable rares that were attainable for normal, day-to-day players. More dedicated players could aim to get them with hit%.

For more casual players a couple rares was plenty, and they were worth seeking not merely for damage but because of what they could do that others could not. Many of those rares would still be worth using even if you had rarer items - this is important because it meant the more casual players weren't completely outclassed. For mid-tier players, an arsenal of a half dozen to a dozen was good (maybe on one char for lots of options, maybe across multiple chars). For the hardest of the hardbeards, there was shit like the TJS.

Why did this work? Because 90% of the effort went into getting the weapon in the first place. Grinding was usually the simplest part - it was even beneficial, since it freed up bank space. For low tier players the grinding step was practically free if they saved their grinders for the good rares they found.

That is why PSOep1&2 was so good and addicting for so many kinds of players, and that is an inherently impossible scenario so long as grinding and affixing takes up such a large portion of an assembled weapon's final value. In PSO2 you go for the best possible item you can and pool tons of money into it. There's no variety beyond a bonus percentage of single digit, maybe double digit damage. That's not variety. There is rarity, but little to no reason to get anything but the rarest item beyond time spent.

Xaelouse
Nov 19, 2014, 11:41 AM
What's the potential?

Damage varies based on photon blast gauge

Poyonche
Nov 19, 2014, 11:52 AM
Oooh, so the grind % isnt dat high, so maybe 13* are easy to grind. :3

rashoood
Nov 19, 2014, 12:56 PM
wait did someone from here get a 13*? can you post it please? XD

Poyonche
Nov 19, 2014, 01:00 PM
Someone posted a pic on the 7th page, idk if he got it. :3

Sizustar
Nov 19, 2014, 01:02 PM
wait did someone from here get a 13*? can you post it please? XD

People are posting their 11~13* on twitter, mmoloda and PSO uploader.

Digital Pain
Nov 19, 2014, 01:08 PM
Just seen someone in the lobby with a 13* +10 with level 1 pot unlocked, I wonder how good/bad grinding them are.

Sayara
Nov 19, 2014, 01:13 PM
So heres the thing, being a tank ass te/hu is hillarious for both Ult and XQ because you just never die.

Like EVER. Falz's attacks did like 300 damage MAXIMUM to me at lvl 71/70 TEhu with a max tank tree. Its hillarious, but what isn't hillarious. Reverser field. FUck it, not worth it at all.
Also fuck the wolves. if they surround you you get into an awful stun lock combo that eats all my automate fuel.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 19, 2014, 01:22 PM
All I have to say is stop using knockups in EH/Ult

Killing things take enough time without people solo juggling aircobos as if this is MvC3 when their damage isn't amazing.

gigawuts
Nov 19, 2014, 02:31 PM
So heres the thing, being a tank ass te/hu is hillarious for both Ult and XQ because you just never die.

Like EVER. Falz's attacks did like 300 damage MAXIMUM to me at lvl 71/70 TEhu with a max tank tree. Its hillarious, but what isn't hillarious. Reverser field. FUck it, not worth it at all.
Also fuck the wolves. if they surround you you get into an awful stun lock combo that eats all my automate fuel.

Can confirm, elder pain & automate halfline = never die ever

That said, ultimate is just sega exaggerating the same mistakes. It's nonstop flinch & lift, all the time, over and over, nonstop. I got bored about 5 minutes in because that's all. it. is.

Fought the jellyfish in the first grid (srs), vol bird, and rare vol bird. Lots of flinch. Very wow. Something something.

Sayara
Nov 19, 2014, 02:38 PM
I only had the issue with the wolves. Because they zap you causing stun and a 2nd one does the same while the first begins to charge again. Leaving you in a dustloop with out any way to break out (besides dying, or PB triggering invincibility)

Z-0
Nov 19, 2014, 02:41 PM
PSO2 is in a sorry state right now, in my opinion.

The absolutely ridiculous notion that XH is going to be EQ-exclusive until like... February 2015 at the earliest is mind-boggling. There's nothing to do except Ultimate because of that, and Ultimate feels very anti-PSO2, with it being Free Field that takes 50x longer (with lasers). It's not fun at all. Nobody I have spoken to have spoken highly of Ultimate -- everyone seems to hate it, but it's the only place to get anything of worth right now outside of XH.

HeyItsTHK
Nov 19, 2014, 02:55 PM
Can confirm, elder pain & automate halfline = never die ever

That said, ultimate is just sega exaggerating the same mistakes. It's nonstop flinch & lift, all the time, over and over, nonstop. I got bored about 5 minutes in because that's all. it. is.

Fought the jellyfish in the first grid (srs), vol bird, and rare vol bird. Lots of flinch. Very wow. Something something.

Nothing in this game is going to be hard without it being cheap, having absurd mechanics, or being heavily team reliant (TD3).

Not to mention difficulty is subjective.

Rakurai
Nov 19, 2014, 02:56 PM
Have any of the bosses had any meaningful changes to their AI on XH?

I didn't notice anything different about Range or Zeshrayda.

Xaelouse
Nov 19, 2014, 02:59 PM
I'm really enjoying Ultimate. What they did to rockbear is amazing
Too bad I dont care too much for the drops

Chdata
Nov 19, 2014, 02:59 PM
I tried ultimate solo and I love it, the animations are a lot less dull/slow and it's not something I can actually step into alone.

Then I went with MPAs and it's still cool.

Things are still easy to dodge if you have any understanding of video game AI but at least now they don't spend hours dancing around not attacking.

NoiseHERO
Nov 19, 2014, 03:01 PM
So what is it? imaginary difficulty solo because hyper armor stunlock enemies and steamroll as usual in an MPA I'm guessing?

Well... at least it's a pretty reskin.

Rakurai
Nov 19, 2014, 03:13 PM
The enemies actually have enough HP to survive for more then a few seconds (Even the weakest enemies have nearly 100K HP). The infection cores will also grant them damage resistance and perpetual super armor if they're not destroyed quickly.

Because they stagger just as easily as ever for the most part, it's mostly just an issue when you're trying to fight a boss, and it makes soloing virtually impossible and impractical.

Tankotron
Nov 19, 2014, 03:45 PM
So what is it? imaginary difficulty solo because hyper armor stunlock enemies and steamroll as usual in an MPA I'm guessing?

Well... at least it's a pretty reskin.

I never understand this. Enemies that are hard to kill and will punish you should you fail to dodge them is fake difficulty? What is real difficulty in this case? Whatever it is I can tell you PSO2 won't ever have it. People saying waaah stunlock and you die need to (wait for it) git gud. And i don't mean get good gear, learn how to actually play an action game.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 19, 2014, 03:55 PM
I actually like it, and XH because fking FOs aren't vaporizing everything in sight with mindlessly strong techs.

What I hate is the amount of stuns everywhere.

rashoood
Nov 19, 2014, 04:50 PM
My only problem with UQ is that when I get hit, every enemy and their mommy go like "he got hit! everyone go ra** him" XD

Nitro Vordex
Nov 19, 2014, 05:29 PM
My only problem with UQ is that when I get hit, every enemy and their mommy go like "he got hit! everyone go ra** him" XD
Well, yeah. That's how it should be.

Superia
Nov 19, 2014, 05:32 PM
"he got hit! everyone go ra** him"

It's probably what I'd do if a group of 12 badasses invaded my planet to kill me and harvest various objects from my corpse in a non-stop stream forever.

NoiseHERO
Nov 19, 2014, 05:33 PM
I never understand this. Enemies that are hard to kill and will punish you should you fail to dodge them is fake difficulty? What is real difficulty in this case? Whatever it is I can tell you PSO2 won't ever have it. People saying waaah stunlock and you die need to (wait for it) git gud. And i don't mean get good gear, learn how to actually play an action game.

Oh no I'm fully aware this game will never have a real difficulty/be challenging, not waah-waahing cause I'm not surprised.

LordKaiser
Nov 19, 2014, 05:57 PM
i like the new ULTIMATE QUEST. This is how PSO2 should be.

Rakurai
Nov 19, 2014, 06:00 PM
Has anyone seen Anga Fandarge gain resistances yet?

I've noticed that it's stopped using some of the attacks it was using yesterday in favor of its more dangerous ones, which makes me think it's simply programmed to use the attacks that hit/KO players the most.

However, despite them saying it's supposed to be a three phase fight, I've only ever seen it revive itself once. I did notice that the music changes again when it dies, though, which makes me think it's either bugged or it simply doesn't revive a second time until it's been defeated enough times or something.

ReverseSeraf
Nov 19, 2014, 06:17 PM
I'm actually enjoying Ultimate, which thank god, because I was going to quit PSO2 for good if Ultimate was boring.

I feel like a lot of the negative sentiment being expressed here and from people I've talked to comes from the fact that they don't really know what to do with enemies that can ACTUALLY FIGHT BACK because they're not being one-shotted. Not saying it's all of you, but I can definitely list a few suspects.

Sizustar
Nov 19, 2014, 06:20 PM
I'm actually enjoying Ultimate, which thank god, because I was going to quit PSO2 for good if Ultimate was boring.

I feel like a lot of the negative sentiment being expressed here and from people I've talked to comes from the fact that they don't really know what to do with enemies that can ACTUALLY FIGHT BACK because they're not being one-shotted. Not saying it's all of you, but I can definitely list a few suspects.

Don't join random party, and communicate with the MPA, like TD3~

Actually, wonder if Ultimate TD1~3 will be like..

NoiseHERO
Nov 19, 2014, 06:22 PM
tbh I haven't tried it yet, but the complaints so far feel like all I need to see to be sure it's still PSO2. <<;;

The Walrus
Nov 19, 2014, 06:23 PM
Bullshit. Only really fun in a "WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT!?" kinda way.

branflakes325
Nov 19, 2014, 07:02 PM
I think ult is pretty fun and challenging for a 12 person mpa. My only real complaints are that the mobs aren't doing enough damage, and they're still more of an annoyance than a threat. Also the variety is kinda lacking since it's only one area. A few new mobs and bosses cant keep us entertained forever.

The Walrus
Nov 19, 2014, 07:18 PM
You cannot seriously be saying that mobs don't do enough damage

Xaelouse
Nov 19, 2014, 07:22 PM
The constant stunlocks and random juggles are pretty cheap though.
You can argue "dont get hit", but at the same time...how often are you seeing people using limit break in this quest

Rakurai
Nov 19, 2014, 07:47 PM
It gets kind of ridiculous if a group of enemy spawns right before Anga Fandarge revives, since it gives all of them a maximum strength infection core, meaning they'll be spamming projectiles everywhere.

I'm glad they're at least easier to avoid then the projectiles fired by the standard SH infection cores, though.

LordKaiser
Nov 19, 2014, 07:53 PM
I haven't died yet thanks to Katana's Combat and switching to bow on occasion but I always ran out of moons... :/ Slow PAs should be used when monsters are stunned and people forget that moving heals stun.

Rakurai
Nov 19, 2014, 08:19 PM
Diabol Grissith seems to rack up a higher headcount then Anga Fandarge does.

The latter honestly doesn't seem that threatening outside of those stupid laser blades that can stagger lock/juggle you to death way too easily, plus it can be kept immobile for a good amount of time by spamming Panic on it.

Vampy
Nov 19, 2014, 08:31 PM
Diabol Grissith seems to rack up a higher headcount then Anga Fandarge does.

The latter honestly doesn't seem that threatening outside of those stupid laser blades that can stagger lock/juggle you to death way too easily, plus it can be kept immobile for a good amount of time by spamming Panic on it.

I feel everything has a higher headcount.

branflakes325
Nov 19, 2014, 09:12 PM
You cannot seriously be saying that mobs don't do enough damage

They seriously don't. They seem to deal slightly more damage than SH mobs. Stun lock is what's making the damage unbearable, but that's a different issue. I haven't tried HU guard build in ultimate, but I'm pretty sure it makes you virtually invincible. Being invincible in ultimate is silly.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 19, 2014, 09:24 PM
They seriously don't. They seem to deal slightly more damage than SH mobs. Stun lock is what's making the damage unbearable, but that's a different issue.

They do enough damage


I haven't tried HU guard build in ultimate, but I'm pretty sure it makes you virtually invincible. Being invincible in ultimate is silly.

Balancing their damage against what one specific combo can take is stupid. I assume you have common sense to not need me to explain to you why.

BIG OLAF
Nov 19, 2014, 09:25 PM
You cannot seriously be saying that mobs don't do enough damage

I was just going to come into the thread to say that I think the mobs do the perfect amount of damage per hit.

If you think about it, it's pretty balanced. It takes a team-up effort from the players to kill one enemy, and it takes a team-up effort from enemies to kill one player. I'm glad the mob damage per hit in Ultimate is a bit nerfed. If you have a competent party, you're not going to get ganged up on and thrashed; I didn't when I did a run of Ultimate.

It's a nice challenge, and there's nothing really bullshit besides Anga Fandarge's little stun flicks followed by ice mortars.

Rakurai
Nov 19, 2014, 09:28 PM
I'm surprised that the only thing that's capable of OHKOing me and my wimpy 708 HP in the UQ is Grissith's flame pillar rain, and that's without Deband Toughness.

Then again, I'm almost never close enough to Anga Fandarge to get hit by it, so it might have something, as well.

On a side note, 13* aren't as OP as I was thinking they'd be as, as they only get around a 35% attack increase at +10, which makes them around 200 ATK better then the best 12* weapons. The latent isn't that spectacular, either (Boosts damage based on how full the PB gauge is, but it's estimated to only be about a 4% increase at level 1).

r2zero
Nov 19, 2014, 11:41 PM
Can confirm, elder pain & automate halfline = never die ever

That said, ultimate is just sega exaggerating the same mistakes. It's nonstop flinch & lift, all the time, over and over, nonstop. I got bored about 5 minutes in because that's all. it. is.

Fought the jellyfish in the first grid (srs), vol bird, and rare vol bird. Lots of flinch. Very wow. Something something.


This sums up everything for me. Also wtb the ability to zoom out my camera so I could see more of the crap thats going on around me. Everything's claustrophobic since most of the UQ map is narrow.

EDIT: K so after spamming UQ for an entire day...Conclusion: UQ takes everything I found annoying about PSO2 and blows it up. More annoying than fun imo.

Cyhiwraith
Nov 20, 2014, 03:39 AM
I don't get why so many people want to one shot stuff. If you're 1 shoting stuff wtf is the point of an upgrade? If you wanna one shot tons of mobs and clear to bosses fast, PSO2 is an ultra slow paced game, go play diablo type games, lol. I don't even know what they can do at this point, the game is either a too long no reward or challenge, or a to quick no challenge not even a real game with no reward. RNG is the worst :(

If stuff dies too quick, it's too easy. If it dies too slow, it's too annoying. If drops are too common, it sucks, if drops are too rare it sucks. I don't see a possible middle ground :(

That's why we got the barbie shop!

EDIT: Pick up a CO for the weapon of your choice, kill every mob 250 times and every boss 100 times. Give the phat lewt to dedicated players, fuck casuals. They don't need gear.

TaigaUC
Nov 20, 2014, 06:11 AM
I only tried Ultimate once briefly, soloing as Ice Fo/Te.
It took forever to kill anything, kept getting knocked down by random stuff, and then the giant phoenix appeared and kept juggling me to death.
Not sure what to think of it.

I think PSO2 would be more fun if it was more like Dark Souls: less trash mobs, more single mobs that are tough as nuts.
"Tough", as in, requires some learning and skill to master. Not "tough" as in "have 99999999 HP and juggle you constantly while you fall asleep".

Laxedrane
Nov 20, 2014, 06:34 AM
I enjoyed UQ so far. Nice and challenging without being to over the top. The only time I died was if I over extended or was just being stupid. Aside the one time where the white boss(I Have a feeling it's not a darker) decided to spawn then two UQ del malmoths spawned. That was a bit of a cluster !@#$. Still adjusting to mobs not falling after one or two PAs... I like that they don't though. I don't see it as something I could spam constantly but I think it's a nice addition.

Lumpen Thingy
Nov 20, 2014, 06:54 AM
the new mode reminds me of end game monster hunter only with mobs that actually do something instead of just sitting there eating grass

Hexxy
Nov 20, 2014, 09:57 AM
I like it, except for the incredible amount of effect spam (can you turn this off or reduce it somehow?) that makes it really hard to see what's going on. Other than that I think it's a good addition. It's challenging enough and all the lasers brings back pso1 memories.

RadiantLegend
Nov 20, 2014, 10:34 AM
Ult + melee with pure dps build + war cry = pain
Ain't no limit break in this realm.

Rien
Nov 20, 2014, 10:37 AM
I only tried Ultimate once briefly, soloing as Ice Fo/Te.
It took forever to kill anything, kept getting knocked down by random stuff, and then the giant phoenix appeared and kept juggling me to death.
Not sure what to think of it.

I think PSO2 would be more fun if it was more like Dark Souls: less trash mobs, more single mobs that are tough as nuts.
"Tough", as in, requires some learning and skill to master. Not "tough" as in "have 99999999 HP and juggle you constantly while you fall asleep".

You're forgetting ultimate treats you as if you were a 12 man party on your own.

Now go MPA and notice how hard it is to get anything to die. The closest build to doing it right now is a freeze build force.

SakoHaruo
Nov 20, 2014, 10:57 AM
I only tried Ultimate once briefly, soloing as Ice Fo/Te.

It begins... o3o

LordKaiser
Nov 20, 2014, 11:56 AM
I often run out of moons on Ultimate. I wonder what is killing them so often... I think many forget to equip their units.

Stealthcmc1974
Nov 20, 2014, 11:57 AM
I often run out of moons on Ultimate. I wonder what is killing them so often... I think many forget to equip their units.

Megiverse + Resta + Deband Toughness is all you need

._.b

Hell, you could probably get away with not constantly using Resta. Given the clusterfuck UQs can be, Megiverse has some insane healing going on.

strikerhunter
Nov 20, 2014, 11:58 AM
I often run out of moons on Ultimate. I wonder what is killing them so often... I think many forget to equip their units.

double lava plume when you drinking mates.

Maenara
Nov 20, 2014, 12:27 PM
You'd be amazed how often I get killed while charging Resta. Kinda hard to find a safe place to Resta when there's so many enemies you can hardly see.

RadiantLegend
Nov 20, 2014, 02:03 PM
I haven't died yet thanks to Katana's Combat and switching to bow on occasion but I always ran out of moons... :/ Slow PAs should be used when monsters are stunned and people forget that moving heals stun.


I often run out of moons on Ultimate. I wonder what is killing them so often... I think many forget to equip their units.
Most people don't have an escape button for 20 seconds.

GreenArcher
Nov 20, 2014, 02:04 PM
I think offesnive photon blasts would be very useful in ult instead of ketos proi. 12 way PB chain when a boss appears? Would really help clear out all the crap and allow the party to focus on the boss.

Z-0
Nov 20, 2014, 02:09 PM
Offensive Photon Blasts Nifta is good, yes. Always has been better than Ketos in most situations since it's buff, IMO.

Rakurai
Nov 20, 2014, 02:21 PM
You'd be amazed how often I get killed while charging Resta. Kinda hard to find a safe place to Resta when there's so many enemies you can hardly see.

I don't even use charged Resta anymore for personal healing.

Power custom + uncharged Resta is usually enough to get your HP back into a range where you won't die.



Offensive Photon Blasts Nifta is good, yes. Always has been better than Ketos in most situations since it's buff, IMO.

Ever since I took Nifta back when that silly PB exploit existed, I've never considered going back to Ketos.

It's the only PB that properly functions as a panic button to quickly clear out a mob of enemies if things are getting a little too hectic.

Unfortunately, people almost never bother using PB chains, despite the fact that they'd be a lot more useful in UQs.

Maenara
Nov 20, 2014, 02:23 PM
Hm, might have to check that recipe out then.

WildarmsRE5
Nov 20, 2014, 02:53 PM
so basically, UQ is given Monster Hunter Difficulty?

trash mobs stuns you then wyvern/dragon nails the coffin on you?

based on what I read, I think I'll like it.

flinchlocking might sound cheap but, considering I've been flinched killed countless times on MH, it's mostly the player's fault for not anticipating it/not thinking ahead.

inb4 XH TD3 is Given REAL ARMORED CORE Difficulty.

SEGA, get help from Software and make it a reality.

Vampy
Nov 20, 2014, 03:43 PM
so basically, UQ is given Monster Hunter Difficulty?

trash mobs stuns you then wyvern/dragon nails the coffin on you?

based on what I read, I think I'll like it.

flinchlocking might sound cheap but, considering I've been flinched killed countless times on MH, it's mostly the player's fault for not anticipating it/not thinking ahead.

inb4 XH TD3 is Given REAL ARMORED CORE Difficulty.

SEGA, get help from Software and make it a reality.



MH is still more fair in terms of trash.

Jaqlou Swig KING
Nov 20, 2014, 03:48 PM
I haven't really given it a fair shot, but if it's really more of the same (pretty polarizing opinions on it) it may have benefitted more from a 4 person cap for the area. Speaking of 4 person caps, I think a lot of people would appreciate a dungeon crawl area that isn't tailored for 12 people as in gigantic wide open sand boxes of nothing. OR MAYBE THATS JUST ME IDK I REALLY LIKED INFINITY...oh and Episode 2 of PSO, area wise at least.

MidCap
Nov 20, 2014, 03:53 PM
PSO2's UQ difficulty took far more finesse than anything Capcom programmed into MH: PSO2 allows for fast gameplay where the character doesn't feel like an inept weakling, but has still managed to produce dangerous situations where the player is easily killed.

MH's "challenge" rests solely on the limited abilities and slowness of the player character.

Kudos, Sega, for once again showing Capcom how it's done.

Vampy
Nov 20, 2014, 03:59 PM
PSO2's UQ difficulty took far more finesse than anything Capcom programmed into MH: PSO2 allows for fast gameplay where the character doesn't feel like a weak piece of crap, but has still managed to produce dangerous situations where the player is easily killed.

MH's "challenge" rests solely on the limited abilities and slowness of the player character.

Kudos, Sega, for once again showing Capcom how it's done.

You make it seem we are stiff boards on monster hunter. I don't find ultimate quests all that challenging myself only issue is enemies can gang up on your much easier because they take so much to kill.

Agastya
Nov 20, 2014, 04:04 PM
fudou is amazing

gigawuts
Nov 20, 2014, 04:04 PM
so basically, UQ is given Monster Hunter Difficulty?

trash mobs stuns you then wyvern/dragon nails the coffin on you?

based on what I read, I think I'll like it.

flinchlocking might sound cheap but, considering I've been flinched killed countless times on MH, it's mostly the player's fault for not anticipating it/not thinking ahead.

inb4 XH TD3 is Given REAL ARMORED CORE Difficulty.

SEGA, get help from Software and make it a reality.

Long post incoming.

After clocking 1300 hours in MH3U and building every armor set available the blademasters (and many gunner sets), I wasn't reminded of MH3U's gameplay at all while playing Ultimate except that maybe they were trying to be like MH, but not by imitating anything that actually makes MH good (at least, in my opinion). I don't know about the other MH titles, but the focus felt like it was mostly on trash mobs in Ult because that's most of what I fought.

In MH3U my experience was mostly tracking down a monster by looking in the areas it's likely to be, then fighting it. The fight was primarily with the boss. Trash mobs were essentially a non-issue.

When a boss did spawn in Ult, it was accompanied by nonstop rolling rongo reskins. All they did was go through me back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. If I had massive hunter I could just ignore them. If I didn't I killed them. That was my Ult experience.

With 1700 hp, an elder pain, and automate halfline I never once died while dealing with the vol bird in an 8 man mpa, the jellyfish in a 6 man mpa, and the rare vol bird in a 4-5 man mpa (or at all the rest of the time, lol). I did get knocked around but that was it. Nobody can even kneejerkedly segafanboy it out by trying to say I should learn to not die. I wasn't dying. It's just boring. Nothing of any real significance happens. It's not that they take too long to kill, it's that all you do is spam AOE and they still die like normal. You clump up and obliterate them like normal. If I didn't have my OP healing sword I'd be spamming AOE from a bit farther back and avoiding a few more attacks, like I used to before I had it. Nothing's different, just more exaggerated. I didn't even feel like killing stuff took too long since I actually wanted it to be even longer...the combat just didn't feel improved. The damage I took was actually so pitiful that in 2 hours I used about 20 monomates and 2 dimates from automate halfline. I find more XQs more threatening.

All this is primarily an issue with the attacks available to the players being able to blanket and obliterate things, but also with the way player hp is largely about 1-2shot or noshot for most builds. Healing sources are plentiful, which they shouldn't be. They should make it about health in the long term, not the short term. Getting juggled to death in .2 seconds because one hit landed on you is not a challenge. Caution and strategy in the long term because you'll run out of heals if you're not careful and then get juggled to death is a better challenge IMO. Make enemies deal less damage, but have far less healing at the players' disposal. Resta should have a limited number of uses in Ult and heal a fraction of what it does, mates should have their heals halved, and hp steal weapons should be based on a % of the enemy's remaining hp so they have diminishing returns against bosses (which is where they actually matter). Add a 1* gunslash with a level 1 latent that steals HP only from Ultimate enemies. That'll be your only source of healing when everything else runs out. Make Ultimate about surviving the whole quest, not avoiding flinch in individual fights in individual rooms. With the way it is now it's just a series of samey fights in samey rooms.

Sega exaggerated all the same boring design decisions to an extreme, and failed to capture what I enjoyed in MH3U - the long fight. This was just a series of menial frustrations and lazy non-challenges made up of game design decisions Sega decided on over 2 years ago and simply will not budge from.

I'm not even going to mention the droprates. I hear they're bad, but when aren't they? That was never going to change. There should have mixed rarities of decent and unique rares to reward short term play and long term play, but I've said that since launch and it hasn't happened yet. It seems like Ult is just another timesink meant to force you to do something for tens to hundreds of hours for minimal chances at temporarily exclusive rewards, just like everything other gametype when it was new.

Long post over.

Basically, I had way more fun with 2-4 people in Ult than I did with a full MPA because then I at least had to apply myself, but I wasn't having much fun then either. There was no chance I was going to get something for my time.

Ultimate being decent was kind of the last thing I was holding on to, so meh. I hear Nova makes like none of the mistakes PSO2 does. That's cool.

The Walrus
Nov 20, 2014, 04:12 PM
PSO2's UQ difficulty took far more finesse than anything Capcom programmed into MH: PSO2 allows for fast gameplay where the character doesn't feel like an inept weakling, but has still managed to produce dangerous situations where the player is easily killed.

MH's "challenge" rests solely on the limited abilities and slowness of the player character.

Kudos, Sega, for once again showing Capcom how it's done.

http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/youre_serious_futurama.gif

reaper527
Nov 20, 2014, 04:29 PM
MH's "challenge" rests solely on the limited abilities and slowness of the player character.



just like how you have to stand still for an eternity to use a mate/moon, unlike pso1 where they were instant (and that instant usage was the reason someone might want to be using items instead of magic in some situations).

pso2 definitely has it's fair share of artificial slowness.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 20, 2014, 04:31 PM
After clocking 1300 hours in MH3U and building every armor set available the blademasters (and many gunner sets), I wasn't reminded of MH3U's gameplay at all while playing Ultimate except that maybe they were trying to be like MH, but not by imitating anything that actually makes MH good (at least, in my opinion). I don't know about the other MH titles, but the focus felt like it was mostly on trash mobs in Ult because that's most of what I fought.

In MH3U my experience was mostly tracking down a monster by looking in the areas it's likely to be, then fighting it. The fight was primarily with the boss. Trash mobs were essentially a non-issue.

It's like that in every MH, yep. Trash mobs in MH are nuisances, because the primary focus is on the bosses. Hell, most quests in Frontier don't even feature mobs. Trash mobs in PSO2 hit almost as hard as the bosses do, and the bosses are jokes.

Honestly, saying the two are alike...lol. It's true that part of MH's difficulty is overcoming player limitations, but that's how every game is. Nothing special about that. MH shines in making the bosses fuck your shit up if you don't know how to fight them. They're still jokes once you can (barring a good number of exceptions), but not even close to the same degree as in PSO2, where every boss is a trivial matter.

Searaphim
Nov 20, 2014, 05:40 PM
"Ult will have enemy with Strike/Range/Tech resistance(With a focus on Shooting and Tech resist)" Oh look, they've nerfed gunners again!

VagrantVan
Nov 20, 2014, 05:47 PM
So how about we take the reduced healing emergency code from XQs, and somehow apply it to UQs?

Searaphim
Nov 20, 2014, 05:49 PM
So how about we take the reduced healing emergency code from XQs, and somehow apply it to UQs?
Fine by me, gunners would finally get a tiny advantage if they use Guld Millas

gigawuts
Nov 20, 2014, 06:00 PM
So how about we take the reduced healing emergency code from XQs, and somehow apply it to UQs?

It would be a start, but I feel it wouldn't be enough.

Every so often I've come out and said the game should focus less on flinch and less on 1-2shots, and more on long term survival.

Ultimate was their shot, and I even think their attempt, at doing that...but the only reason 1-2shots are a thing is that healing is so strong in this game. Or maybe both of those are dependent on Sega needing this game to be full of cheapshots to sell scape dolls.

Either way, the result is a game where any attempt at something like this is a joke because they simply cannot let go of something like that. Shit like this is why western MMOs are more advanced right now - they'll let go of something like scape doll sales for the sake of a more fun and complete game, knowing that will keep players longer. Well, it'll keep players from playing other MMOs...and PSO2 has no real competition in Japan.

Sega's just doing what they can get away with. There's no shame in that, but sometimes there's no fun in it either. PSO2 is still doing barbies right though, so that's cool.

Searaphim
Nov 20, 2014, 06:04 PM
Every so often I've come out and said the game should focus less on flinch and less on 1-2shots, and more on long term survival.


Long term survival? Kind of like how in Dark Souls 1 you had to manage your estus for longer term survival?

gigawuts
Nov 20, 2014, 06:13 PM
Long term survival? Kind of like how in Dark Souls 1 you had to manage your estus for longer term survival?

Similar, yeah. Or in MH, managing your potions (which WERE generous at times, but others...you brought books as a blademaster so you could make more).

Even PSO1 had some survival management going on if you were soloing or duoing something and wanted to keep your PB.

Vampy
Nov 20, 2014, 06:42 PM
Similar, yeah. Or in MH, managing your potions (which WERE generous at times, but others...you brought books as a blademaster so you could make more).

Even PSO1 had some survival management going on if you were soloing or duoing something and wanted to keep your PB.

It really depends because if you poorly managed your supplies you couldn't really go the long haul on monster hunter but once you get everything set it is very easy to just forget and rely on your stockpile of potions and honey just to survive. But I like you can't just leave an area and just buy more if you fuck up you fuck up you will have to rely on your skill the rest of a hunt.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 20, 2014, 08:03 PM
Yeah, the fact that you have essentially an unlimited supply of healing methods in PSO2 really puts a damper on skill requirements. Especially if you're a tech user. In MH, the penalty for death is very severe and the healing items are quite restricted in quantity. Frontier in particular has fights so dangerous that, in most runs, the moment someone gets hit, the general idea is to drop what you're doing and use a party healing item, because 3 deaths total and you fail. But in PSO2, you die, and...wait to get revived with no penalty. It doesn't hurt you or anyone else to die in any quest, all you lose out on is EXP while you're down. And if you die, chances are good nobody will even notice or help you unless they're a party member, even with the changes to the UI to help show where downed players are. Reviving players is simply not a big priority, because deaths have much less impact on overall performance than they should.

XQ health penalties are about 1/10th reductions, from what I can remember. That's pretty severe and does a good job of making me feel like I'm wasting time trying to heal when I take 10+ seconds using fully charged Restas to heal from a single hit. Something like that in UQs would work really well at making survival difficult. There's still the issue of the practically unlimited supply of revival items though. Dying simply is not a big deal.

WildarmsRE5
Nov 21, 2014, 01:15 AM
I like how Fatalis can take that much time kill--

yeah, I'm gonna drift off into another world at this rate.

flinching isn't bad, it's only bad when you're about to get killed with a one-hit-sure-kill attack.

@ Giga

Every Monster Hunter games had one thing in them, the Long Fights, and that thing is never going to change, atleast I hope so.

not sure if getting reckted within .2 secs is not a challenge, doesn't it means the enemies are getting smarter in chaining their attacks (by luck) maybe?

XQs don't feel much of a challenge in my humble opinion, aside when I'm soloing, that's a different story. I usually ignore whatever code is happening in XQs.

and lastly, having an unlimited supply of healing items are somewhat fair due to Fo/Te/Bo having access to healing techs, limiting resta uses seems interesting but, I don't think it'll ever happen unless a miracle arrives.

wefwq
Nov 21, 2014, 01:39 AM
The only survival aspect this game gets is when undergeared party get sucked to SH darker den, but that was really fun as hell though.

Maenara
Nov 21, 2014, 02:40 AM
Yeah, the fact that you have essentially an unlimited supply of healing methods in PSO2 really puts a damper on skill requirements. Especially if you're a tech user. In MH, the penalty for death is very severe and the healing items are quite restricted in quantity. Frontier in particular has fights so dangerous that, in most runs, the moment someone gets hit, the general idea is to drop what you're doing and use a party healing item, because 3 deaths total and you fail. But in PSO2, you die, and...wait to get revived with no penalty. It doesn't hurt you or anyone else to die in any quest, all you lose out on is EXP while you're down. And if you die, chances are good nobody will even notice or help you unless they're a party member, even with the changes to the UI to help show where downed players are. Reviving players is simply not a big priority, because deaths have much less impact on overall performance than they should.

XQ health penalties are about 1/10th reductions, from what I can remember. That's pretty severe and does a good job of making me feel like I'm wasting time trying to heal when I take 10+ seconds using fully charged Restas to heal from a single hit. Something like that in UQs would work really well at making survival difficult. There's still the issue of the practically unlimited supply of revival items though. Dying simply is not a big deal.

Make it like TAs and XQs - You can't return to the campship at any time or you forfeit the mission. Includes by telepipes and resurrection.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 21, 2014, 03:36 AM
...you mean UQs aren't like that already? Unbelievable.

Though, even if that were the case, between all the different healing items, your mag, Ketos Proi, tech users with Resta and Megiverse, Just Reversal Cover and other healing skills, Moon Atomizers and Cosmo Atomizers for revival, etc, I don't think it'd make a very big difference.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 21, 2014, 04:04 AM
Crosspost attack!


Still feel like the only reason some say it feels like more of the same because there's a dozen people on the map that spawn on top of each other.

If we had a single party quest with:

-ult enemies/AI/patterns/damage levels.
-more hitsun resistant infections on enemies adding value to hardstuns and freezing like PSO ult (hardstuns do not break on attacks on enemies immune to hitstun, such as gilnach).
-maybe... a requirement to complete in A1 to gain access to A2, a boss, and an RDR boost in order to kill off boss rushing. Maybe something like... the % tracker for apos kills before luther, except a certain threshold is required to get in A2. Enemy kills increase it. Player KOs decrease it. Going higher ups RDR.
-telepipes disabled.
-'return to campship' replaced with 'retire' if KOed.
-maybe just to screw with players make fungi/ecode rescue happen at least once!
-oh! E-code protection completion for aircraft is required to have air support. May throw down some fire, or come to a cleared grid to drop off a green box with like... 4 mates/atomizers once every 2 or 3 grids maybe. Fail, and have no air support for the remainder of the quest.
-No additional enemies spawn with bosses.

No limits to how much you can run this quest.
The lower exp is perfectly fine.
Make friends with reverser field techers, and coordinate moon atomizer useage. Mag production devices could be left as is maybe... actually production triggers are fine. Just make it so friendly vtol will never drop off healing items.

I kinda came up with this as I went. I'm sure I could come up with more ways to re-purpose old trivial ecodes given time. Whaddya guys think? I feel like this would be a quest that would really want you to get 3 of your trusted bros, make an actual coordinated team effort, and feel damn good clearing it.

I think I take the mag production bit back, and have the player rely on air support to drop off healing items once in a while.

gigawuts
Nov 21, 2014, 09:40 AM
@ Giga

Every Monster Hunter games had one thing in them, the Long Fights, and that thing is never going to change, atleast I hope so.

not sure if getting reckted within .2 secs is not a challenge, doesn't it means the enemies are getting smarter in chaining their attacks (by luck) maybe?

XQs don't feel much of a challenge in my humble opinion, aside when I'm soloing, that's a different story. I usually ignore whatever code is happening in XQs.

and lastly, having an unlimited supply of healing items are somewhat fair due to Fo/Te/Bo having access to healing techs, limiting resta uses seems interesting but, I don't think it'll ever happen unless a miracle arrives.

Well, I know it's not 100% accurate to say a .2 second combojuggledeath isn't a challenge, but I do feel it isn't a fun or interesting one. There's no real thought involved in that.

Enemies may be getting smarter, I'm not sure. It felt more to me like they were just spamming and blanketing the area with attacks, but it really could have been that their behavior has been changed. Still though, the result is something I don't find compelling myself.

But yeah, that was just me speculating on something that could have been more fun for some of us yet retained what other people liked in Ultimate now.

I just wish there was a way to try to improve the odds of some enemies spawning over others - especially bosses. The random nature of Ultimate quests was another thing that just shot it in the leg. It would've been nice if players could select a weapon type they wanted to hunt...

But yeah, halving all healing sources, reducing each full resta to a trimate's healing, and capping resta's uses would've been nice for Ultimate IMO. HP steal weapons steal hp from the enemy to heal less from damaged enemies. Then make enemies deal less damage...maybe a quarter the damage? Pull mates out of the shops too. I know players could still leave and come back, or summon different NPCs, or other workarounds - but let's pretend that can't happen somehow. That sounds like a total blast to me.

Maenara
Nov 21, 2014, 10:02 AM
Restricting ALL sources of healing just kinda defeats the purpose of having abnormal methods of healing in the first place. Don't restrict Resta, make the classes that can use it more frail. Make healers a valuable resource. Tanks should use War Cry or Showtime and protect the healer.

Half of the issue here is that this game is missing entire layers of strategy. There's ultimately no difference between an MPA with 11 melee Techers and 1 Ranger, and an MPA with 11 Fighters and 1 Ranger. You don't need tanks. You don't need healers. You don't need to recognize and work with anyone's role and that vastly limits any difficulty to be had.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 21, 2014, 12:58 PM
There's a huge difference, but it starts with Z and not R (or M for that matter).

Force is already super fragile compared to other classes, while Techer and Bouncer have subclasses to rely on for both damage and defensive skills. Making Force more fragile won't help, making the other two fragile is an exercise in futility because they can just leech from their subclass' skills for defense.

Main issue is that HP is a plentiful resource. Affixes, units, Techer's Deband Toughness, stuff like that ensures that even the most fragile classes can hit 4 digit HP if they wanted to.

Maenara
Nov 21, 2014, 01:00 PM
Give inherent merits and demerits to subclass skills based on what your main class is.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 21, 2014, 01:21 PM
That sounds excessively complicated for Sega and likely to railroad players into particular builds and limit creativity.

I'd rather they stick with things that don't limit player creativity.

Maenara
Nov 21, 2014, 01:31 PM
Well when you have so many options they end up degenerating into deal damage by doing X and avoid damage by doing Y...and given that literally no effort besides getting EXP and a weapon goes into building up a particular playstyle, as opposed to say, Mabinogi, where you can max out and use every single skill in the game interchangeably, but you have to train the skill which could take weeks to master the skill, things get very boring very fast.

Being flat out honest here - nothing short of a 100% redo of the character development system in this game would drive me to be interested in playing in the vast void between major content updates. All of my classes at at level level 70 because I capped out everything just because it was something to improve.

I've already successfully finished at least one run of ultimate quests, and I've faced each of its bosses. Given that I haven't failed, I can't work on 'improving' myself to the point of not failing either because I'm already there.

kabutozero
Nov 21, 2014, 09:55 PM
no 13* db on the wiki yet... bad luck or has sega screwed up for good?

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 21, 2014, 09:58 PM
Something something next update i think.

I really do want my boulay obs recolor for my space katana fetish.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 21, 2014, 10:46 PM
Being flat out honest here - nothing short of a 100% redo of the character development system in this game would drive me to be interested in playing in the vast void between major content updates. All of my classes at at level level 70 because I capped out everything just because it was something to improve.

I've already successfully finished at least one run of ultimate quests, and I've faced each of its bosses. Given that I haven't failed, I can't work on 'improving' myself to the point of not failing either because I'm already there.

Honestly? Endgame PSO2 feels a lot like endgame MH to me. Once you're good enough, it's a given you won't fail. There is no question about your ability to succeed anymore. And there will be a point where you've done everything you can or want to do to your satisfaction. It's like that for most games. The goal then becomes to aim for doing things efficiently. If that doesn't hold your interest, it might be best to take a break or drop the game entirely. But it's always a route you can take for self improvement.

KatsuraJun
Nov 21, 2014, 10:50 PM
honestly the only difference to me between MH and PSO2 is that you get to that point where you drop every boss without a care a lot faster

and I think the only reason is because boss mechanics don't really matter as much in PSO2, you pretty much deal with all of them in exactly the same way. Rather than make things harder I'd rather they just make more unique bosses with meaningful differences in how you fight them and then tack on a bunch of HP so you can't drop them in a few seconds.



like remember day 1 luther? people were legitimately failing that because tons of people were dying nonstop to his attacks not knowing how to fight it and also not being able to drop him in 5 minutes. Then people figured out you could mirage him and drop him in 5 minutes so the whole thing became a joke instantly rather than over the span of some more significant period of time where people would be forced to learn his tells and avoid them.

maybe make them a bit faster, because his "sped up mode" attacks are still kinda slow.

Vampy
Nov 21, 2014, 10:57 PM
The games as a whole are completely different sure both have big monsters you have to kill for better stuff but the road to that is much different the risk reward is different. One focuses on the aspect of the hunt tracking down an enemy rationing supplies so that you are prepared if anything might go wrong the other focuses trying to reach the end as fast as possible trying to maximize your rewards with most minimal amount of effort possible.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 21, 2014, 11:40 PM
All the big MH bosses either have their own arena (no different from Elder/Loser) or lack mobs (Elder Dragons besides Kirin, anything in the various arenas, lots of Frontier stuff) though. No rationing or hunting things down there. Endgame in MH is not all that different from PSO2: Complete the objective as quickly and efficiently as possible. Survival in endgame for MH is pretty irrelevant.

Also...


and I think the only reason is because boss mechanics don't really matter as much in PSO2, you pretty much deal with all of them in exactly the same way. Rather than make things harder I'd rather they just make more unique bosses with meaningful differences in how you fight them and then tack on a bunch of HP so you can't drop them in a few seconds.

Pretty much this. Even the earliest large monsters encountered in a given MH game have unique, memorable gimmicks that define the fight. Hell, the very first fight in MH once you get past the generic collect items/kill mobs stuff is a massive horde of raptors with their boss. I don't think any other MH game even replicates the fight despite featuring said monster in every installment up until MHFU (and returning in MH4-on). It's one of the only times mobs are a relevant factor, and to this day, other raptor bosses don't bring nearly as many mobs. It helps to make the fight that much more memorable. And it's not even an actual boss, Kut-Ku's the first real boss fight.

Vol Dragon's got a cool concept with its magma armor. But in practice, it's break crystal > kill Vol.
Gwanahda's got a cool concept with its tentacles being factors in its fight. But in practice it's kill tentacles > kill Gwanahda.
Snow/Fang pair have a cool concept with their dual boss mechanics. But in practice, it's kill Banshee before Banther shows up > kill Banther.
Tranmizer's got a cool concept with its multiple forms. But in practice, the moment it exposes its core, it dies.

Etc etc. The groundwork is there, but the bosses are completely unable to take advantage of them. Which is a real pity, because there's tons of creative potential available.

Achelousaurus
Nov 22, 2014, 10:20 AM
You cannot seriously be saying that mobs don't do enough damage
As a lvl 70 BrHu with flashguard 1 and tech flashguard to 18% each and a 3s Luther set I heal more from J Reversal Recovery than some enemies deal damage.

The real difficulty comes from the clusterfucking, as mentioned before. It's common that I get hit 3-4 times before I even hit the ground.

Regardless of what else happens, enemy count must be removed to make it really fun.

And I don't enjoy not seeing anything either. The novelty is gonna wear off pretty soon for me and I'll go back to just doing other stuff.

The worst idea was to make enemies give little exp because the drop rate for 10* is not any higher than in SH, you just don't get 7-9* besides rappy drops.
And that is a only disadvantage because some 7-9* can be sold for 50k and more, I just sold two for 300k each.

If I would at least get XH style exp I wouldn't mind running ult but right now I am simply wasting my 250% rare drop and 100% triboosters for a couple more excubes.

wefwq
Nov 22, 2014, 10:40 AM
They fend up EXP to keep leecher off the quest, it can't be helped.
Doesn't stop rare drop leecher from coming in, though.

Dugs
Nov 22, 2014, 10:41 PM
As a character with skills to take less damage, I healing more than I take.


Fixed that for you.

wefwq
Nov 23, 2014, 03:13 AM
They fend up EXP to keep leecher off the quest, it can't be helped.
Doesn't stop rare drop leecher from coming in, though.
Actually fuck that, this EXP stuff doesn't stop those people.

Just saw a guy leeching off from group by doing absolutely nothing but starring at nearest wall and dodging enemy attack.

Lumpen Thingy
Nov 23, 2014, 04:13 AM
Honestly? Endgame PSO2 feels a lot like endgame MH to me. Once you're good enough, it's a given you won't fail. There is no question about your ability to succeed anymore. And there will be a point where you've done everything you can or want to do to your satisfaction. It's like that for most games. The goal then becomes to aim for doing things efficiently. If that doesn't hold your interest, it might be best to take a break or drop the game entirely. But it's always a route you can take for self improvement.
holy crap!!!!!!!!! someone thinks exactly how I feel about this game

Keilyn
Nov 23, 2014, 10:28 AM
Prior to this update, there was freedom as well as boredom.

If a player wanted to find something, they would pick out the map of their drop and simply go for it. This allowed players to run through the Free Fields and SHAQs and have some variety in conversations as to which maps one geared and prepared for.

After this update...

Level 17 disks which have around 10 - 15% more power than Level 16 Disks, 12* weapons we run around EQs aimlessly hoping RNG can be kind to us....and everyone, their mother...and their dog forgetting about running any map (except for daily quests) in favor of running Ultimate Mode being the one decent map to get in this game in a very long time....all for the 13*

Lots of displacement going on...

Before where players could have reason to run the different maps, now the game has reached the point where endgame is EQ + Ulimate Mode, and its nice to go after Class-ExCube and get more SP, but to be spent doing what? XH difficulty is going to become the new SH after all of these weapons, units, PA enhancements, affixes, and character level + extra SP completely affects every player...

In the very least, at least its nice to have Ultimate Mode than not having Ultimate Mode and waiting for EQs. I had been bored of Despair, Elder, and Loser....for a long time now.

KatsuraJun
Nov 23, 2014, 11:00 AM
Before where players could have reason to run the different maps, now the game has reached the point where endgame is EQ + Ulimate Mode, and its nice to go after Class-ExCube and get more SP, but to be spent doing what? XH difficulty is going to become the new SH after all of these weapons, units, PA enhancements, affixes, and character level + extra SP completely affects every player...

maybe you just need to get smarter.

i've barely done UQs, been running about 5 other maps and the EQs obviously repeatedly to make a ton of money.

i think i've made 40m in less than 5 days and I've barely done my DOs.

Selphea
Nov 23, 2014, 11:05 AM
Yea the market's gone bonkers after the update $_$.

Rien
Nov 23, 2014, 11:10 AM
fodder price has skyrocketed

Poyonche
Nov 23, 2014, 11:16 AM
Before update : Soul Receptor 3s (Units) ~= 150 to 250k

Now : 700k +

Selphea
Nov 23, 2014, 11:22 AM
Well everyone with Quartz, Mizer or Elder/Pow/Spirita wants to affix the new souls

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 23, 2014, 03:10 PM
Before update : Soul Receptor 3s (Units) ~= 150 to 250k

Now : 700k +

I've been checking for days and the 4s market hasn't changed much...

Just checked, and they're up to ~3mil per. A 50% increase since the 12th. It was a bit slow to go up.

Modulator 4s units reverted to 4mil from its spike to 5 mil days after the update (not like i buy them).

Gaylar
Nov 24, 2014, 01:05 AM
And here I sold ~14m's worth of Soul Receptor stuff before the patch, expecting that the market for it was going to fizzle out a good bit.

Now I find that 14m could probably have been 25m if I waited.
Marketgame is hardest game.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 24, 2014, 01:40 AM
And here I sold ~14m's worth of Soul Receptor stuff before the patch, expecting that the market for it was going to fizzle out a good bit.

Why would you think that when 6 fodders enables soul + modulator/vinculum at 80% success before extra slot penalty/boost entirely because of soul receptor? :-?

Sizustar
Nov 24, 2014, 01:46 AM
And here I sold ~14m's worth of Soul Receptor stuff before the patch, expecting that the market for it was going to fizzle out a good bit.

Now I find that 14m could probably have been 25m if I waited.
Marketgame is hardest game.

Just barely enough for Lobby Action 149 Akarin~

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 24, 2014, 01:54 AM
Just barely enough for Lobby Action 149 Akarin~

That lobby action's price is the most backwards thing ever.

People pay millions to dressup and lobbyfag respectively... so why would someone pay nearly 30mil to defeat the purpose of dressup?! I don't get it!

Lumpen Thingy
Nov 24, 2014, 02:47 AM
That lobby action's price is the most backwards thing ever.

People pay millions to dressup and lobbyfag respectively... so why would someone pay nearly 30mil to defeat the purpose of dressup?! I don't get it!

Because anime.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 24, 2014, 03:18 AM
That lobby action's price is the most backwards thing ever.

People pay millions to dressup and lobbyfag respectively... so why would someone pay nearly 30mil to defeat the purpose of dressup?! I don't get it!

It's a funny LA. I've never purchased non-FUN LAs, but I'm quite temped to buy this one simply because it's the only one that genuinely made me laugh. There's always the notion of pulling it out during Falz Arm or Elder runs, for pain train/phase transition.

Sizustar
Nov 24, 2014, 04:08 AM
That lobby action's price is the most backwards thing ever.

People pay millions to dressup and lobbyfag respectively... so why would someone pay nearly 30mil to defeat the purpose of dressup?! I don't get it!

It's a joke from the serie, so you'll have to watch it to understand.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 24, 2014, 04:46 AM
It's a joke from the serie, so you'll have to watch it to understand.

I know the joke, but an LA costing almost 30mil days after release, and it makes your character invisible on top of it all... gotta admit this is the most out-there pricing situation I've ever seen in PSO2.

Sizustar
Nov 24, 2014, 04:53 AM
I know the joke, but an LA costing almost 30mil days after release, and it makes your character invisible on top of it all... gotta admit this is the most out-there pricing situation I've ever seen in PSO2.

Limited supply, not alot of people are doing the scratch this time.

But hopefully, with the recent affix change and crafting zieg craft quest, it'll reduce people's meseta, and item price might go down?

Tivor
Nov 24, 2014, 04:55 AM
Most chances are it won't go down. At least not in the foreseeable future.

Xaelouse
Nov 24, 2014, 05:03 AM
not alot of people are doing the scratch this time.



Will this be the excuse for every scratch that comes out nowadays?
I would think, if people saw the prices of these scratch items, they would be more inclined to scratch as well to make big money
Not that I'm complaining, all the trash that's been coming out this year is making me save a lot of money

Sizustar
Nov 24, 2014, 05:04 AM
Will this be the excuse for every scratch that comes out nowadays?
I would think, if people saw the prices of these scratch items, they would be more inclined to scratch as well to make big money
Not that I'm complaining, all the trash that's been coming out this year is making me save a lot of money

That's...1 item out of how many other item in the scratch.
Unlike other scratch, in which even the outfit can sell for a good amount, because of demand, this scratch doesn't have alot of item t h at people would want.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 24, 2014, 05:19 AM
That's...1 item out of how many other item in the scratch.
Unlike other scratch, in which even the outfit can sell for a good amount, because of demand, this scratch doesn't have alot of item t h at people would want.

Honestly though, prices for consumable tickets on the week of release has been growing more and more absurd to the point it's 'normal' now.

How much was that cheerleader routine two days after scratch release for instance? 19mil was it?

Ordy
Nov 24, 2014, 08:54 AM
Keep in mind that people are wealthier now. It isn't uncommon to see someone with +100m meseta in inventory/storage right now.

I think that people are willing to spend more money on lobby actions simply because their purchasing power has increased over the last few months.
So even though some dance tickets cost 20m, the price remained approximately proportional to the average meseta pool.

Note: opinion based on observations

Cyber Meteor
Nov 24, 2014, 11:14 AM
Nobody knows what happened to 13* TMG and Talis? They are not even listed in the item drop list in game.


Aside from that question, those UQ are both satisfying and disappointing. Satisfying because ennemies and level look really cool (rare Diabo is beautiful), the new bosses are pretty good to fight (except Crazy-Malmoth, pretty unmanageable this one) Anga being the most pleasant.

Disappointing mainly because of the low drop rate, UQ was supposed to be meant for hunting drop but after spending 10 300%( 250 + 50tri ) i was under the impression to be in the VHAQ rate, 8 10* 3 11* in the end. Seriously...... i know it's the only place where 13* are but at this rate i'm not even gonna get a 12*. Not sure if i will keep using boost for this, just wasting them. I was almost overwhelmed by 10/11* in Urban XH with 100% boost and i've done the EQ 2 time (2 x 30 mins i mean).

So now, keeping my boost for Loser cause i still want to get Niren Orochi and that's probably the only 12* that'll be useful for me (maybe Salus Punisher too).

Kondibon
Nov 24, 2014, 11:19 AM
I like how people think "Meant for drops" means they'd be common, when it really just means sega expects you to farm it. Once people get what they want they don't have a reason to go back to ultimate, so logically the drop rates would be bad to keep people doing it.

Z-0
Nov 24, 2014, 11:22 AM
The problem with UQ is that you either get nothing or everything. There's no in-between, so you don't feel like you're making any real gains at all (apart from EXP).

It's demotivating when you don't find anything at all. The souls are pretty dirt cheap since EVERYONE is spamming Ultimate too, so you don't get much money from those.

Poyonche
Nov 24, 2014, 11:33 AM
The problem with UQ is that you either get nothing or everything. There's no in-between, so you don't feel like you're making any real gains at all (apart from EXP).

It's demotivating when you don't find anything at all. The souls are pretty dirt cheap since EVERYONE is spamming Ultimate too, so you don't get much money from those.


That ^

gigawuts
Nov 24, 2014, 11:33 AM
The problem with UQ is that you either get nothing or everything. There's no in-between, so you don't feel like you're making any real gains at all (apart from EXP).

It's demotivating when you don't find anything at all. The souls are pretty dirt cheap since EVERYONE is spamming Ultimate too, so you don't get much money from those.

This is the big issue, yeah. Without a way to target a specific enemy with different spawn rates in different quests, decent drop rates for at least some decent rares (not all, just enough to give you a reward along the way to your chainsawd), or both, Ultimate feels soul-draining unless you're lucky.

Which is F2P (and PSO2?) in a nutshell, actually.

It's meant to demotivate you to the point that you just say fuck it and start paying for boosters, though. That's the whole intent.

Kondibon
Nov 24, 2014, 11:54 AM
EDIT: Also, for clarity, I'm not saying this is a good thing. Rather I think it's bad having a quest type with a single purpose and require large amounts of people to do it efficiently, because then you need to keep a noticeable portion of the community doing it, and if they've done the thing the quest is for then they have no reason to do it, which means you need to make the goal long term enough that people are there for a long time. The end result is poor drop rates. The funny thing is the endgame is about getting drops anyway so it's not like making a quest specifically for it is anything special aside from the fact that it makes the limited peripheral content even more limited.

To put it another way, don't do UQs unless you like UQs because they're designed to be a time sink, not a treasure trove.



Which is bad F2P in a nutshell, actually.
ftfy
http://i.imgur.com/EMOQfoO.gif

Shadowth117
Nov 24, 2014, 12:13 PM
ftfy
http://i.imgur.com/EMOQfoO.gif

Yup. Thing is, in my experience seasoned players aren't going to resort to such things usually. And even with payed boosters, its possible to come out with crap.

And of course if there's no desire to pay, its not really sustainable for the company. Not that there won't be people who do pay, but if you condition too many people to understand why the payed boosters aren't going to help than clearly its not sustainable. Lucky for Sega, what was drawing people to the game wasn't their subpar mission structure.

Kondibon
Nov 24, 2014, 12:24 PM
Yup. Thing is, in my experience seasoned players aren't going to resort to such things usually. And even with payed boosters, its possible to come out with crap.

And of course if there's no desire to pay, its not really sustainable for the company. Not that there won't be people who do pay, but if you condition too many people to understand why the payed boosters aren't going to help than clearly its not sustainable. Lucky for Sega, what was drawing people to the game wasn't their subpar mission structure.
Honestly most of sega's revenue for PSO2 probably comes from premium and scratches anyway. I really don't think "But they need people to buy boosters!" is the reason the drops are so bad. They just need to keep people there long enough that people are actually doing it later.

Xaeris
Nov 24, 2014, 12:42 PM
Honestly most of sega's revenue for PSO2 probably comes from premium and scratches anyway. I really don't think "But they need people to buy boosters!" is the reason the drops are so bad. They just need to keep people there long enough that people are actually doing it later.

Indeed. I've never believed there's any conspiracy at work to incentivize us to buy any of the consumables from the AC shop, or even stimulate the sale of the ones from scratch. If only because other games in the F2P realm have shown that Sega could be getting away with far worse practices if they really had their minds set on it.

Personally, I could deal with the crummy drop rates if not for one thing: lack of trading. As it is now, most (nearly all) of the crap that drops in an UQ is going to be straight up useless to me. I may play many classes, but the resources that go into getting a 12* or a 13* up to snuff make it impractical to use one for a class I only occasionally dick around on. So it's somewhat demotivating to know that even if I do get something worth a damn, it won't likely be something that I give a damn about. If it had some purchasing power at least, then it could at least be exciting to know that the whole zone is filled with potential.

You're really bad at quitting, Z-0. (notsrs)

gigawuts
Nov 24, 2014, 12:49 PM
I never claimed it was the sole source of revenue, I claimed it was a motivator.

No successful business on this planet places all of its eggs in one basket, and then manages to survive very long. Sega wants you to buy premium and wants you to buy boosters; the two are hardly mutually exclusive.

It's not a "conspiracy," it's a tactic. It's also a well known fact that psychology is used in designing free to play games to make the player want to spend more money...it's kind of the point of the model.

edit: Basically, they want to have their cake and eat it too. Every business does. Claiming Sega doesn't is silly.

Kondibon
Nov 24, 2014, 12:53 PM
Personally, I could deal with the crummy drop rates if not for one thing: lack of trading. As it is now, most (nearly all) of the crap that drops in an UQ is going to be straight up useless to me. I may play many classes, but the resources that go into getting a 12* or a 13* up to snuff make it impractical to use one for a class I only occasionally dick around on. So it's somewhat demotivating to know that even if I do get something worth a damn, it won't likely be something that I give a damn about. If it had some purchasing power at least, then it could at least be exciting to know that the whole zone is filled with potential.

You're really bad at quitting, Z-0. (notsrs)This is something I've thought about as well. The thing is, while there are exceptions, and thingsa player can logically be expected to do on their own own, a big part of the reason extremely rare random drops work in online games is BECAUSE it encourages interplayer trading.

Xaeris
Nov 24, 2014, 12:53 PM
It's one thing to say they want us to buy boosters. I can agree with that. It's another thing to say they design their game with pitfalls specifically designed to incentivise buying boosters to overcome them. That's a pretty damning claim.

gigawuts
Nov 24, 2014, 12:54 PM
It's one thing to say they want us to buy boosters. I can agree with that. It's another thing to say they design their game with pitfalls specifically designed to incentivise buying boosters to overcome them. That's a pretty damning claim.

I don't see how. Many F2P games are literally designed with this specific intent. It's not a secret.

Kondibon
Nov 24, 2014, 12:59 PM
It's not a "conspiracy," it's a tactic. It's also a well known fact that psychology is used in designing free to play games to make the player want to spend more money...it's kind of the point of the model.I mean... are you trying to say it's a bad thing? Because you could make that argument about any game that isn't 100% free.

That said, I genuinely don't think UQs were designed with this in mind anymore than the rest of the game. Like Shadowth said, if the drop rate is so bad that even WITH boosters you aren't getting anything that's just gonna make people want to buy them LESS.

Xaeris
Nov 24, 2014, 01:02 PM
And those games are widely agreed to be terrible for that fact.

Like I said, Sega could be getting away with far worse if that was their intent. As it is, you can get 250% boosters for free (well, for excubes). The ones that can be bought or scratched for are, what, 300%? 250% for free vs. 300% for however much money they cost isn't a setup that would appear in a game that's trying to frustrate you into using the cash shop.

Edit: lol, I decided to go look. It's 800 AC for 3 150% boosters and the one that comes from the scratch is 200%, not 300%. Yeah, that's definitely not an avenue they're pushing.

Kondibon
Nov 24, 2014, 01:04 PM
And those games are widely agreed to be terrible for that fact.

Like I said, Sega could be getting away with far worse if that was their intent. As it is, you can get 250% boosters for free (well, for excubes). The ones that can be bought or scratched for are, what, 300%? 250% for free vs. 300% for however much money they cost isn't a setup that would appear in a game that's trying to frustrate you into using the cash shop.
He's going to tell you how fas 250% boosters run out if you use them every run.

gigawuts
Nov 24, 2014, 01:06 PM
I think they've been gradually eking it in since launch, getting players adjusted to using them, etc.

Tell me, with a straight face, that if the game launched with the rates we see in ultimate and off of falz everyone would've been happy dandy with them. Nobody would feel like these droprates are a bit excessively low.

They want us used to using boosters so some people start buying boosters when they wouldn't have before. That's why the game has shifted to the kinds of lower rates we have, and why we periodically get free boosters. It's also why triboosters exist - so we can stack boosters even higher.

Comcast is trying to push a switch to a data cap system on landlines and people still think companies don't conspire to strangle their consumers for every dime that they can? I mean come on guys, it's not that far-fetched to say Sega wants to get people used to the idea of using boosters so a portion of the players, however small, starts buying them when they run out of free ones.

It's not a conspiracy, it's just good business.

Kondibon
Nov 24, 2014, 01:26 PM
For the record people don't seem to be happy with the drop rates even WITH boosters, which is why I think this is just sega just being incompetent in designing something they want lots of players to do.

Xaelouse
Nov 24, 2014, 01:31 PM
I barely see new rockbear compared to diabo and anga. The new rockbear actually drops decent rares and has a valuable soul if the equip has 5 affix (guaranteed stigma on any of your 5-slot stuff). No way to just farm him on demand either, which kinda ruins the experience.

Xaeris
Nov 24, 2014, 01:36 PM
They want us used to using boosters so some people start buying boosters when they wouldn't have before. That's why the game has shifted to the kinds of lower rates we have, and why we periodically get free boosters. It's also why triboosters exist - so we can stack boosters even higher.


You're talking about a shift to lower rates, but you neglect that these are the first 13*s we've ever had. There's no precedent for their drop rates; there's nothing to shift from. On the other hand, 11*s, a grade of item which does have a comparable precedent, have been dropping more than they ever have, even within the UQ. By any fair metric, drops have been the easiest they've ever been in this game (not to say that they're good).

And on the matter of conditioning, if that's really their intent, then they're pretty bad at it. As anyone who has used a booster in an UQ should know, it's not uncommon to go its whole duration without finding anything worthwhile. If you want to condition people to use boosters, you would want to make the effect, at least on occasion, noticeable and directly attributable to the booster. That's just operant conditioning 101. (It might be classical, but I can't be arsed to confirm right now.)

I'm giving you some benefit of the doubt here, but I'm really loathe to believe that there's anyone, anywhere, that would seriously resort to buying boosters with AC, nevermind any number worth compromising the game's design over. I don't find your assertion compelling because the means they'd be going about it are just hilariously bad.

Edit: It seems cirno is out of date on its AC shop contents. I logged in just now, and there's a pack of 3 300% boosters for 1k. Still not better than 250% for free as far as cost:benefit goes, but info should be complete.

gigawuts
Nov 24, 2014, 01:47 PM
You're talking about a shift to lower rates, but you neglect that these are the first 13*s we've ever had. There's no precedent for their drop rates; there's nothing to shift from. On the other hand, 11*s, a grade of item which does have a comparable precedent, have been dropping more than they ever have, even within the UQ. By any fair metric, drops have been the easiest they've ever been in this game (not to say that they're good).

And on the matter of conditioning, if that's really their intent, then they're pretty bad at it. As anyone who has used a booster in an UQ should know, it's not uncommon to go its whole duration without finding anything worthwhile. If you want to condition people to use boosters, you would want to make the effect, at least on occasion, noticeable and directly attributable to the booster. That's just operant conditioning 101. (It might be classical, but I can't be arsed to confirm right now.)

I'm giving you some benefit of the doubt here, but I'm really loathe to believe that there's anyone, anywhere, that would seriously resort to buying boosters with AC, nevermind any number worth compromising the game's design over. I don't find your assertion compelling because the means they'd be going about it are just hilariously bad.

Well, I don't really want to just leap to this sort of tactic because I know it's not fair - but really, do you know every single player? Do you know how JP casuals do things? Even EN casuals? We have people in the EN community who say scape dolls would never ever sell, yet they actually do. Some JPs actually do buy scape dolls. Some EN players do too.

I never said they were good at this sort of thing, nor that it's the sole motivation or sole intent - but any results yielded are still results.

Additionally, I don't consider "rarity" to be a factor in how easy it is to actually obtain an item. The fact that the new standard of items players seek are getting rarer is what matters, not the labels assigned to them. They could be labeled anything in the world; that much is completely arbitrary and if anything that's a result of difficulty to obtain, not v.v.

Xaeris
Nov 24, 2014, 04:15 PM
Like I said, I'm giving your claim some benefit of the doubt, which is why I didn't throw it out altogether. I may not be in a position to poll every single individual player, but I can make inferences based on rudimentary knowledge of player behavior. One of those inferences tells me that people aren't going to spend real money on a consumable that has a nebulous effect. I mean, to buy a pack of boosters, a player has to decide that 3 hours of boost time is worth almost as much as month of Premium. The scheme you're proposing hinges on the player being irrational and almost comically short sighted. This, combined with the fact that I have literally never met anyone who has bought boosters or dolls, tells me that those who do are a vanishingly small minority and that the burden of proof should be on anyone trying to argue otherwise.

And let me be sure something is clear. It is one thing to implement some features to take advantage of that vanishingly small minority so that they can spend some money of their own accord. Sega is absolutely doing that; AC boosters exist, after all. It's a whole other ball game to say that Sega is deliberately designing their game to convert players that wouldn't normally buy consumables into players that would and wild speculation to boot.

If you don't believe rarity should be a factor in how difficult it is to find an item, you're entitled to that opinion. But Sega disagrees and they have disagreed from day one, long before F2P was even a twinkle in their eyes and long before they had any monetary stake in that opinion. 13*s at release are harder to find than 9*s at release, and I'm A-OK with that.

This is getting a little TL;DR, so let's put a ribbon on this. Look at your claim from my perspective and imagine what you're asking me, and others, to believe. You're asking me to believe that Sega has made deliberate choices in its design of UQs to incentivise the use of boosters. Such choices include:

- Putting all the 12* and 13* items on bosses and rare enemies, making it so that boosters will few few chances to actually do anything.

- Allowing players to purchase a booster that's marginally inferior to the AC version using a currency that they're showered in. And really, this is the big sticking point for me. I literally have over 1000 excubes. I could run 250% all the damn time if I pleased. Sure, not everyone has time to play to gather so many, but then they wouldn't need nearly as many cubes to begin with.

- Putting 10*s in UQs to subsidize those 250s.

- Making it so that the boost granted only has an effect that's observable from a macro perspective and not immediately observable by the player.

- Lowering drop rates (questionable, but I'll let it pass to make my point) to the point that they cause frustration, possibly causing players to quit (which honestly, is a much more plausible outcome than people developing a 10 dollar a day booster habit)

But, you seem to grant that this plan isn't necessarily effective: just extant. Okay, but here's the problem with that. You're offering this scheme as an explanation for the drop rates in Ultimate ("that's the point"), but the details are incongruent with the implementation of that scheme. In short, there absolutely has to be a better explanation than Sega being mustache twirling villains.

gigawuts
Nov 24, 2014, 04:33 PM
What? You're reacting like this because I said "that's the point?"

I didn't mean to imply that's the only reason. I even stated otherwise.

Here: That's a point.

And I frankly don't think Sega actually has the knowledge or experience to know what's what regarding boosters, F2P, etc. They're moving in the correct general direction, but many details have room for improvement. No matter how you slice PSO2 that much is going to be a constant. Moreover, I also think that due to Japan's F2P market being what it is, they're free to release things that would flounder in the west. You say these things are a bad idea, and I even agree, but when did a bad idea stop a powerful company from making money because of low or nonexistent competition?

Edit: Also, I meant to add that a lot of your criticism of my claim could be directed at the game at its face value. Half of those gripes, with just a bit of rewording, could apply to skilltrees over the game's lifespan.

KatsuraJun
Nov 24, 2014, 04:35 PM
Personally, I think the only reason skill tree reset passes, rare boosts, and cosmo atomizers still exist in the store is because Sega figures that maybe some new player or idiot will buy them so what's the point in taking them out. If they were actually trying to market these things, they're either hilariously uninformed about their game (which, contrary to what most people say, I honestly don't think they are), or just really really REALLY dumb. Like, can't do basic math kind of dumb.

Scape dolls are another story, I figure those are sold primarily when someone's either doing an XQ and dies or ragebuys it when dying repeatedly to the same boss attempting to solo it.

Xaeris
Nov 24, 2014, 04:37 PM
Reacting like what? We're talking.

Looking back, you actually said "that's the whole point." So I think I made a sensible inference.

gigawuts
Nov 24, 2014, 04:42 PM
Reacting like what? We're talking.

Looking back, you actually said "that's the whole point." So I think I made a sensible inference.

I added onto my post. I'm a chronic post editor.

And, yes, I overuse that phrase (among others). It's not the only point - something I've said again and again.

Items are this rare for a variety of reasons, and selling boosters is just one of them. You could describe it as a side effect if you wanted, however I sincerely doubt it's not considered as a factor when designing content. If you think they don't take something like booster sales into consideration when deciding on item rarity...I'm not sure what to say. They're paid to consider these things. It's literally somebody's job to predict profitability of these things and whether or not players will have the patience to play it. The alternative scenario is that they actually do design all this shit completely blind and with no forethought whatsoever. I doubt you find that more plausible.

KatsuraJun
Nov 24, 2014, 04:46 PM
There's also the scenario where they leave it in because there's no reason to take it out. Whatever profit they get from boosters is probably infinitesimally smaller than the amount they make from... just about everything else. Isn't it possible that whatever they make off boosters is just an afterthought to them?

This wouldn't be the first time I've seen a company leave in a feature nobody cares about because "well why bother taking it out?" - the rune combiner in league for example.

Isn't it more likely the items are this rare because that's literally the only reason to run this place?

EvilMag
Nov 24, 2014, 04:48 PM
Any money they get off drop boosters and scape dolls is just coffee money at this point. So fuck it leave it in there.

Kondibon
Nov 24, 2014, 04:57 PM
Isn't it more likely the items are this rare because that's literally the only reason to run this place?
That's what I said, but no one listens to me. :wacko:

KatsuraJun
Nov 24, 2014, 04:59 PM
I also want to add, that I feel like the drop rate for MEANINGFUL things has actually improved overall as of late.

Back when 10*s were standard, almost every rare drop was trash. Boosters felt useless because things were either too rare to realistically farm for/tied to an EQ like Falz which dropped jack shit too, or worthless.

Now, 10*s drop fairly often, which can be turned into excubes for more rare hunting or converted nearly directly into money. As for the BiS equipment, I don't feel any more likely to get a 11* in the 10* era than I am to get a 13* in the current one. If anything, I feel like I've heard more 13* drops right now than I did 11*s (or god forbid, 12*s) back then.

Wasn't a similar sentiment echoed when TD first came out? "It finally feels like rare boosters DO something." or something along those lines? Even without them, you still get enough 10*s to buy a booster off a single session even with near minimum performance (2 runs or something).

The point I'm trying to make is that the only reason rare boosts are becoming "standard" is because the drop rates have gotten better, not worse, which not only incentivzes people to use them but also makes them widely available.

jooozek
Nov 24, 2014, 05:19 PM
SEGA made a step forward with SHAQs and it's 11* drop rates but they go full macintosh with this UQ and make everything, even 10* rare as fuck, hell, best i got with a 250% booster was 2 10* weapons in duration, best without boosters? 2 10* weapons in same run
SEGAC i swear

Xaelouse
Nov 24, 2014, 05:34 PM
Hoping XHAQs will drop 12* like candy too
At least I'd actually get stuff, not to mention stuff tekking with Ultimate Buster. Ancient Oath + that affix makes me not care about 13*.

Cyber Meteor
Nov 24, 2014, 06:54 PM
Hoping XHAQs will drop 12* like candy too
At least I'd actually get stuff, not to mention stuff tekking with Ultimate Buster. Ancient Oath + that affix makes me not care about 13*.

Tbh, i would bet more on that than anything else to get 12*. I don't know when they'll be released or if they'll be all released at the same time but looking what they've done with 11* in SHAQ, there is a high probability they'll do the same thing to 12* on XHAQ, so that could be good.

Also, I'm having a doubt about boosters having any impact on drop rate in UQ, like the TD's 11* or advance capsules that don't get affected by boosters. I mean, i ceased to run UQ with boosters but i'm not noticing any difference in getting rare drop as before, ok there is a 50% server boost running currently but still, compared to a 300% boost.....

Maenara
Nov 24, 2014, 06:55 PM
"The EXP is low because you're only supposed to be running this at the level cap. But since we're nice, you don't have to be at the level cap to do this. Yes, we're nice enough to defeat our own purpose before it begins."

Rakurai
Nov 24, 2014, 08:53 PM
I really hate the fact the Diabos Grissith can trap you in an endless chain of hits if it decides to target you multiple times with its flame pillars.

Which is rather often for me, since it doesn't appreciate being Il Barta spammed on the tail.

Tetsuo9999
Nov 24, 2014, 08:57 PM
"The EXP is low because you're only supposed to be running this at the level cap. But since we're nice, you don't have to be at the level cap to do this. Yes, we're nice enough to defeat our own purpose before it begins."

I find it hilarious how they probably thought people would buy something like that. The UQ map has taken over the game, and no one else is running anything on a wide scale aside from EQs. The fact that the drop rates are so awful means that the game is going to be stuck in purgatory for a while. This was one of the main issues I had with PSU, and I'm sad to see a new form of it in this game (White Beast for eternity).

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 24, 2014, 09:46 PM
"The EXP is low because you're only supposed to be running this at the level cap. But since we're nice, you don't have to be at the level cap to do this. Yes, we're nice enough to defeat our own purpose before it begins."

"we've buffed many PAs in time for ULT, especially melee because of the higher risk they face. The buffed lvl17 versions may only drop in ult"

...

The lvl17 disks for a class' PA shoula've been gift's for getting that class to 70!

Not lock 10% of my damage behind RNG disk drops!

Or better yet, why the fk did they do this shit again with PA leveling?!

I got more rares than I did lvl17 disks from ult, I kid you not!

Also salty I've found two lvl8, two lvl9, and three lvl15 kazan nadeshiko disks in a row. Still don't have lvl17.

Tivor
Nov 24, 2014, 10:33 PM
I also complained about that. Shitty game-design(?)-decision, indeed.

However... I've discovered with a friend of mine that you can get level 17 PAs/Techs from the corresponding SH ADV map. We were on Amduscia caves and she dropped a level 17 Il Foie. Don't know about the other techs/PAs, though, like, if I could get Raging Waltz 17 or anything like that form those maps.

Sizustar
Nov 24, 2014, 10:35 PM
"we've buffed many PAs in time for ULT, especially melee because of the higher risk they face. The buffed lvl17 versions may only drop in ult"

...

The lvl17 disks for a class' PA shoula've been gift's for getting that class to 70!

Not lock 10% of my damage behind RNG disk drops!

Or better yet, why the fk did they do this shit again with PA leveling?!

I got more rares than I did lvl17 disks from ult, I kid you not!

Also salty I've found two lvl8, two lvl9, and three lvl15 kazan nadeshiko disks in a row. Still don't have lvl17.

You can get lv.17 disk from the AQs

EvilMag
Nov 24, 2014, 10:42 PM
I find it hilarious how they probably thought people would buy something like that. The UQ map has taken over the game, and no one else is running anything on a wide scale aside from EQs. The fact that the drop rates are so awful means that the game is going to be stuck in purgatory for a while. This was one of the main issues I had with PSU, and I'm sad to see a new form of it in this game (White Beast for eternity).

My problem I have with all of this is that they're doing their usual dripfeeding horse shit. I wonder how bored people are gonna get with Ultimate Naberius considering we'll probably have to wait sometime till mid January to get Ultimate Lillipa and if it's gonna be like that, we'll have to wait till either Spring or Summer to finally get all the planets in Ultimate. Fucking garbage if you ask me. Also them only releasing 2 EQs for XH per update is also horse shit drip feed as well.

Sizustar
Nov 24, 2014, 10:46 PM
My problem I have with all of this is that they're doing their usual dripfeeding horse shit. I wonder how bored people are gonna get with Ultimate Naberius considering we'll probably have to wait sometime till mid January to get Ultimate Lillipa. Also them only releasing 2 EQs for XH per update is also horse shit drip feed as well.

I'm just waiting for the 2nd annivesary outfit.
http://pso2.jp/players/event/2nd_anniversary/itemdesigncontest2014/result/costume/#resultBox

And not really sure if I want or need to upgrade my current gear anyway...

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 24, 2014, 10:48 PM
You can get lv.17 disk from the AQs

I know. I'm still working on it.

Afik the exclusives are the only disks that can drop as lvl17 in there.


I'm just waiting for the 2nd annivesary outfit.
http://pso2.jp/players/event/2nd_anniversary/itemdesigncontest2014/result/costume/#resultBox

And not really sure if I want or need to upgrade my current gear anyway...

Can't see it :/ (verizon victim)

EvilMag
Nov 24, 2014, 10:51 PM
I'm just waiting for the 2nd annivesary outfit.
http://pso2.jp/players/event/2nd_anniversary/itemdesigncontest2014/result/costume/#resultBox

And not really sure if I want or need to upgrade my current gear anyway...

I wanna gonna consider going for Zieg units on my other classes but then I thought about it, we're getting Gunne in Christmas on Ice 3 and I'm sure their gonna vomit that boss all over us so I could get another unit set from him.

Gardios
Nov 24, 2014, 11:24 PM
Can't see it :/ (verizon victim)

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/SfF9oem.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dBY8ZbZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/elV7gGg.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 25, 2014, 12:41 AM
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/SfF9oem.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/dBY8ZbZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/elV7gGg.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Oh... that >.>

Tetsuo9999
Nov 25, 2014, 01:12 AM
My problem I have with all of this is that they're doing their usual dripfeeding horse shit. I wonder how bored people are gonna get with Ultimate Naberius considering we'll probably have to wait sometime till mid January to get Ultimate Lillipa and if it's gonna be like that, we'll have to wait till either Spring or Summer to finally get all the planets in Ultimate. Fucking garbage if you ask me. Also them only releasing 2 EQs for XH per update is also horse shit drip feed as well.

Yeah, they are obviously buying themselves some time until the next major update is ready. They're basically putting the rares in front of everyone's faces, but making them drop once in a blue moon. The problem with this is that such a huge part of the population is running the UQs exclusively, and the rest of the game doesn't get much attention aside from dailies and EQs. It was already rough to start out on this game without friends to play it with. I can't imagine how much a new player would have to solo at this point since UQs are the new White Beast.

Selphea
Nov 25, 2014, 01:43 AM
The old souls are still in demand because the new souls only work with Stigma or Vinculum. High slot Quartz/Mizers will still sell well due to their value as fodder for success rate. Add to that the new Gol-crafts and Zieg's weapon quests creating demand for Stee- weapon mats and Silva- armor mats to convert up to Gol- mats and there's lots of reasons to farm older content where rares drop more often for disassembly.

I'm actually not too excited about UQs myself, because Diaboi's set has no 2 piece bonus. Without the weapon they're just glorified Ing Plates. The weapons aren't anything I'd use and the souls are so common that I can just buy them off player shops rather than farm them myself.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 25, 2014, 01:55 AM
5th kazan 15... zzz

isCasted
Nov 25, 2014, 02:24 AM
The situation with PAs sucks, really. They buffed melee PAs (even ones that work at long range, I believe), but not ranged PAs and techs that work in close range (making it even worse for Gunner than it already is). IMO, instead of PA buffing they should've just added Zero Range Boost PSE like in AQs, or maybe just plain zero range weakness to mobs and bosses. If it needs buff for UQ, it doesn't mean that it should be buffed for the rest of the game too.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 25, 2014, 03:11 AM
6th kazan 15

Really... wtf are the chances of getting this many? I got 3 different levels from 10 disks. 6 of them in a row are fking lvl15...

Tivor
Nov 25, 2014, 09:27 PM
Some people are blessed with suck. I know how you feel.