Thoughts on the new Photon Arts/Skills?

[Superia]

My spirit sword, she is too weak.

What do you guys think of the new additions?

[The_Brimada]

Still not sure what to think of the launcher PA yet. But of course it does make me feel kinda AIS like on my caseal while using it.

[Superia]

I was kind of hoping it would be hideously overpowered like pre-nerf sat cat. So far it feels like a waste of PP but it is fun to use.

[EvilMag]

Knuckles PA is pretty much Guilty Break for Knuckles and not a big fan of the Sword one. Haven't tried the others yet.

[TaigaUC]

I can't believe they pulled the same shit as before and that some rank 17 PAs are vastly stronger.
So much for balance. SEEGAAAAAAAAA!

[Maenara]

Just 'using' wind/lightning techs on enemies isn't good enough to charge Zandeon apparently. You have to actually kill enemies with those techs to charge it.

[Rakurai]

I've only been using ice techs, but Zandeon charges up quickly (About four times faster then my photon blast does).

It seems worth using as long you have either Wind or Lightning mastery. I'd like to see the damage it can deal in the next UQ that presumably has lightning or wind weak enemies, since even against things that aren't weak against it, it's doing well over 100K damage total if I focus on a single enemy.

[NoiseHERO]

I like the sword one, don't ask me how practical it is, but I like it's simple slashes.

jetboot one not sure, backhandsmash-ish dmg but way slower and hitting anything with it that's not a downed boss is no, haven't tried it in a party so dunno what it's buff does, I guess it heals everyone not yourself?

Someone already called new fist one on being guilty break clone... it'd be perfect imo if it connected with backhand smash. It does not.

Ranger step attack is awesome should've been day 1 thing.

[The_Brimada]

I can't believe they pulled the same shit as before and that some rank 17 PAs are vastly stronger.
So much for balance. SEEGAAAAAAAAA!

I'm not sure what level 16 is for this PA since I got 17 on my first run for the launcher PA but

[spoiler-box]
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7471/15210558883_1c5ea994b4_o.png
[/spoiler-box]

[TaigaUC]

Yeah the huge difference in PAs seems to be mainly for melee. Still sucks though.

I like the new Bow PA a lot, even though it's kinda annoying to have to keep setting it up.
You also can't swap to WB when using it, but it's great if someone else is already WBing.

Sphere Laser has an irritating sound effect and doesn't feel satisfying or do that much damage.
Ridiculously slow startup as well. Drains PP and ends so fast that it doesn't feel like much of a "lazer".

[Sizustar]

I can't believe they pulled the same shit as before and that some rank 17 PAs are vastly stronger.
So much for balance. SEEGAAAAAAAAA!

Sega's reasoning is, it's for ULTIMATE...

[ReverseSeraf]

I'm not sure what level 16 is for this PA since I got 17 on my first run for the launcher PA but

[spoiler-box]
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7471/15210558883_1c5ea994b4_o.png
[/spoiler-box]

80% increase in a span of 17 levels. I think that sounds about right.

[ShinMaruku]

I can't believe they pulled the same shit as before and that some rank 17 PAs are vastly stronger.
So much for balance. SEEGAAAAAAAAA!

Why would you expect better from a species that bitches over a shirt when people landed a probe on a comet :P

Just pulling your leg man

[TaigaUC]

Check out the Knuckles PA 16 to 17 differences. So painful.
http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%95%E3%82%A9%E3%83%88%E3%83%B3%E3% 82%A2%E3%83%BC%E3%83%84%2F%E3%83%8A%E3%83%83%E3%82 %AF%E3%83%AB%E7%B3%BB

I really don't like the new Sword PA because it looks slow and weak (animation-wise). Haven't tried it in combat yet.
Everything about Swords still feels so underwhelming compared to other weapons, especially Katana.


Sega's reasoning is, it's for ULTIMATE...

Yeah, I saw that. What the hell.


Why would you expect better from a species that bitches over a shirt when people landed a probe on a comet :P

This is so true, though.

[The Walrus]

Why would you expect better from a species that bitches over a shirt when people landed a probe on a comet :P

Just pulling your leg man

Wait, what? What is this shirt that people are bitching about?

[LonelyGaruga]

Just 'using' wind/lightning techs on enemies isn't good enough to charge Zandeon apparently. You have to actually kill enemies with those techs to charge it.

Neither is right. Any element (hell, any attack) works, and you just have to land hits to charge it.

[Edson Drake]

Wait, what? What is this shirt that people are bitching about?

Feminazis complained about a scientist that made an interview about a huge discovery, but was wearing an anime shirt, which they consider offensive, and part of Patriarchy and rape culture.

[Gryffin]

Can we talk about the 15 minute cooldown on Reverser?

Zandial is exciting and sparkly, and will charge through use of ANY tech, even with my boots equipped. During XH using Gibarta on my wand it typically got charged enough for two uses. With boots I can only get about one. Very excited to see where we go with multi-element techs. Perhaps a Fire/Something combo will bring back something reminiscent of Diga... :)

New boot skill is fun, I've managed to slam a 50k on it with the right timing... Not sure on all the kinks of it yet, but its very exciting.

Oh, but yeah. 15 minute cooldown on Reverser. Womp womp.


Feminazis complained about a scientist that made an interview about a huge discovery, but was wearing an anime shirt, which they consider offensive, and part of Patriarchy and rape culture.

Actually it wasn't an anime shirt? It was a sexually explicit shirt inappropriate for work. The feminist nature of the issue is because it represented a scantily clad woman, which is completely inappropriate for the workplace, more so if you are appearing through media to represent yourself, your accomplishment, your company, and your field. (Neither here nor there, definitely not the thread for this... debate.)

[Superia]

Yeah the huge difference in PAs seems to be mainly for melee. Still sucks though.

I like the new Bow PA a lot, even though it's kinda annoying to have to keep setting it up.
You also can't swap to WB when using it, but it's great if someone else is already WBing.

Sphere Laser has an irritating sound effect and doesn't feel satisfying or do that much damage.
Ridiculously slow startup as well. Drains PP and ends so fast that it doesn't feel like much of a "lazer".

I do not really mind how fast it drinks up PP or how dramatically slow the start-up is. But coupled with the weaksauce damage, it is pretty disappointing to me.

[Maenara]

Neither is right. Any element (hell, any attack) works, and you just have to land hits to charge it.

I went into SH Forest and charged in in about 48 uses of Nazan, or 1/8 per 6 Nazans, but that didn't show the same in UQs. Hm. PB gauges have always been weird though.

[Xaelouse]

Sword PA is awful besides for a select few enemies, like I said weeks ago
Knuckle and jet boot PAs are great and not as situational.

[LonelyGaruga]

I went into SH Forest and charged in in about 48 uses of Nazan, or 1/8 per 6 Nazans, but that didn't show the same in UQs. Hm. PB gauges have always been weird though.

There's a Te/Br video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24950628) on nico uploaded showcasing XH Falz Arms and the person fills up Zandeon with BA + PP Convert + Ragrants spam extremely rapidly.

Seems like Zandeon fills up pretty fast compared to PBs, but still pretty slow considering how much damage is necessary.

[Sizustar]

There's a Te/Br video (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24950628) on nico uploaded showcasing XH Falz Arms and the person fills up Zandeon with BA + PP Convert + Ragrants spam extremely rapidly.

Seems like Zandeon fills up pretty fast compared to PBs, but still pretty slow considering how much damage is necessary.

Does it work with all tech, or it only charge through lightning/wind tech?

[Laxedrane]

Does it work with all tech, or it only charge through lightning/wind tech?

The answer in the post you quoted.

To the point that it takes to long for the damage done, so long as it deals decent damage does it matter how long it takes to charge? It's not like it takes away from PB or requires you to do anything extra or special. Just an added RAWR move.

[sol_trigger]

JB new PA kick is pretty shjt because we CAN NOT CHANGE DIRECTION

[Helvetica Standard]

Anyone can enlighten me on how to use Chase Arrow? It looks like a faster Banishing Arrow but I still have no idea of its effect/use. Me thinks it's some sort of tag?
Maybe trying to use it while dodging Ult enemies and giant laser beams is not the best idea XD

[TaigaUC]

I saw someone doing the Twin Dagger direction spin thing. I feel silly for expecting the animation to be different.


I do not really mind how fast it drinks up PP or how dramatically slow the start-up is. But coupled with the weaksauce damage, it is pretty disappointing to me.

I remember them saying it'd be something like the photon particle cannon from TD, but it doesn't really feel anything like it.
I'd probably be happy with something like a horizontal Satellite Cannon, similar to Piercing Shell or Penetrate Arrow.
In actuality, it's probably more akin to a very slow and expensive RaGrants.


Anyone can enlighten me on how to use Chase Arrow? It looks like a faster Banishing Arrow but I still have no idea of its effect/use. Me thinks it's some sort of tag?
Maybe trying to use it while dodging Ult enemies and giant laser beams is not the best idea XD

It took me a while to figure it out. I initially thought it was a tag attack as well.
Basically, it allows you to store up to 3 arrows, and when you do damage with a PA, the arrows attack the enemy you did damage to, one arrow after the other.
I don't remember exactly how hard each arrow hits, but it was something around 20-30k at rank 1 for me.

I've read that you can start storing Chase Arrows on the campship, and it carries over between areas.
But it doesn't seem to carryover between weapons. So you can't really use it alongside your own Weak Bullet.

What I like to do is store 3 arrows, then Banish Arrow + Last Nemesis. Was getting over 900k Banish Arrow explosions on Arms last night.
The sad part is that even with repeated 900k Banish Arrows, it still takes forever to kill Extra Hard Arms.

[Dycize]

Ignite Parrying is a nice PA... When you do manage to parry something. Otherwise it's kinda eh.
I do like the mechanic on it tho, pressing the guard button at the right time during the first 4 swings allows to parry stuff and if you do, the PA gets a LOT stronger. It basically doubles the range and power. Altho activating all 4 parry windows requires quite a bit of timing. Also I'm not sure sword gear does anything for this PA.

Chase Arrow is pretty nifty, it's only 15PP. Now if only it didn't make you immobile while using it... Still, you can do some pretty fun stuff for cheap with it. Setup those chase arrow and burst in with another PA (I like how it works with gravity point).

Anyone can enlighten me on how to use Chase Arrow? It looks like a faster Banishing Arrow but I still have no idea of its effect/use. Me thinks it's some sort of tag?
Maybe trying to use it while dodging Ult enemies and giant laser beams is not the best idea XD
You activate the PA to setup the arrows, then when you hit a mob with one of your bow PAs the arrows will strike your target. Pretty good burst.

That's pretty much all I really tried out. I'll have to try out the new JBs PA too, it looked fairly strong in the stream. I did play around a bit with Heartless Impact but not really used it against mobs. It's a Guilty Break where you can actually turn during it. Yay?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Anyone can enlighten me on how to use Chase Arrow? It looks like a faster Banishing Arrow but I still have no idea of its effect/use. Me thinks it's some sort of tag?
Maybe trying to use it while dodging Ult enemies and giant laser beams is not the best idea XD

You store up to 3 arrows in an alternate dimension. Next PA you land with your bow will fire stored arrows at the enemy. Does not persist through weapon change, and I assume area change, but lasts seemingly indefinately until you land your next PA.

[TaigaUC]

(I like how it works with gravity point).

Oh? Interesting.

[Helvetica Standard]

You store up to 3 arrows in an alternate dimension. Next PA you land with your bow will fire stored arrows at the enemy. Does not persist through weapon change, and I assume area change, but lasts seemingly indefinately until you land your next PA.

Thanks. :D
It sounds pretty cool. Though I'd wish it had a built in tag...On the brightside, you can freely select target by landing the follow up PA on it, no? So I guess it's ok. :3

[Dycize]

Oh? Interesting.

Oh it's nothing much, but since the arrows home in at the 1st PA damage, it means the arrows will fly off when Gravity Point hits a mob, then it will start sucking stuff, so it pins the mob pretty well.
Setup arrows > Hit mob with GP > Arrows home in > Finish with the gravity effect.
Also Chase sounds like the kind of stuff that would work really well with Banish Arrow. More damage to burst!

[sol_trigger]

Ignite Parrying is a nice PA... When you do manage to parry something. Otherwise it's kinda eh.
I do like the mechanic on it tho, pressing the guard button at the right time during the first 4 swings allows to parry stuff and if you do, the PA gets a LOT stronger. It basically doubles the range and power. Altho activating all 4 parry windows requires quite a bit of timing. Also I'm not sure sword gear does anything for this PA.



sorry to say this but you mad, the shift action only increases RANGE not dmg bro

[Dycize]

Everytime the effect activated I dealt more damage, so I guess coincidences are annoying stuff. Particularly with a PA that works so... Uncommonly.

[wefwq]

I was really dissapointed by new Sword and Bow PA, both are pretty weak compared to pre-existing PA and not really worth using.

Bow PA seems to be alternative to banish arrow but with mediocre damage.
New Sword PA looks fast and is pretty fun to use, but the damage is pretty low compared to other "generic" PAs.

[Rakurai]

I don't think Chase Arrow is meant to be used as a source of straight-up damage.

It's supposed to be deployed in advance, either prior to an enemy spawn, or at a time when a boss can't be attacked.

[Stickboy]

how does new sword PA even work?

[Selphea]

So pretty much WB Chase Chase Chase Banish Nemesis?

[Rakurai]

I imagine it could be fun to use with Chain Trigger, as well.

[TaigaUC]

Messed around with the new Knuckles gear skill and the new Knuckles PA.
Seems nice. Knuckles still too slow, but definitely better now.


So pretty much WB Chase Chase Chase Banish Nemesis?

Yeah, but the timing will probably be tight.
Or maybe it'd be better to just do Banish, Nemesis x2?
Depends on the WB'd point, I guess.

[usagi2607]

I also noticed this change:
Made adjustments to the photon art behavior for Partisan’s Pick Up Throw, and Double Saber’s Fake Capture. Enemies that can’t be grabbed will still receive damage despite not being picked up from the Photon Art.

I don't understand why didn't they do this for Sword PA Cruel Throw as well... This is one of the most useless PA I've tried...

[Laxedrane]

I also noticed this change:
Made adjustments to the photon art behavior for Partisan’s Pick Up Throw, and Double Saber’s Fake Capture. Enemies that can’t be grabbed will still receive damage despite not being picked up from the Photon Art.

I don't understand why didn't they do this for Sword PA Cruel Throw as well... This is one of the most useless PA I've tried...

That's been in game for ages. A white ball replaces the mob and so long as they are still in range when the animation finishes they receive damage.

[Xaelouse]

That's been in game for ages. A white ball replaces the mob and so long as they are still in range when the animation finishes they receive damage.

And it did less than half the damage if you couldn't pick them up.
EDIT: Huh, the orb still doesn't do any damage for me. Well, nevermind then
EDIT2: Okay, it really does do full damage now if the enemy can't be grabbed or not (tried it on Zeshrayda). For some reason, it still didn't want to work on kuklonahda though

[Kilich]

If the new Boots PA caused your hair to turn blond and created a golden aura around you, instead of being a beefed up ele burst, I'd like it more. The kick cancel is fine though.

[SonataDesu]

I love Zandeon, depending on your build zandeon charge up pretty quick with sazan elysion spam or razan Wind talis. You can charge up Zandeon based on multi hit techs, weakpoint hits and ennemies kills. If you use only one build Wind for exemple your Zandeon lightnings will do less damage but if you run over mobs you do more damage based on your Wind build. If you use Lightning build your lightning strikes does more damage during zandeon, but if you use both skill tree with a Wind talis 15% damage increase to Wind damage 50% Wind element and 40% Wind/40% lightning from skill tree. Your Zandeon becomes an extremely broken PB damage output that does around 30-50k damages per hits, yes per HIITS!!

[Hexxy]

Snatch JA is beautiful. The circle appears immediately as the step animation begins and turns red half-way through the step. It's very fast, but also lasts to the end of the step and there is enough time to actually do a full 180 (or just make a small direction adjustment) and still get your JA off. This shaves off a lot of time for JA'ing and works incredibly well for UQ. Due to the JA speed, you can jump into snatch JA without losing altitude. This also lets you JA your step attack, which previously was not possible.

Quick Mate is incredibly good. It seems to drop mate animation speed by one tier. Dimates go as fast as monomates, trimates are about the speed of dimates, and monomates are nearly instant. I was able to monomate myself back to full health in UQ with 2 ult rockbears chasing me. It's that fast.

[SakoHaruo]

Is Snatch JA braver main? If so... eww.

[Xaelouse]

It's not braver main. It just requires points in snatch step

[Hexxy]

Is Snatch JA braver main? If so... eww.

Snatch JA and Quick Mate are both NOT br main! And only 1 point each. Literally no reason not to grab both.

[SakoHaruo]

Ahh, that's good to hear.

Welp, not going feel sorry for the ones who join my party and experience extra lag because of Snatch Step. Blame Sega for making it a requirement.

[usagi2607]

That's been in game for ages. A white ball replaces the mob and so long as they are still in range when the animation finishes they receive damage.

I've never noticed this before :O . I did saw the blue ball but I didn't see any damage from it (could be that the enemy was out of range...)
Will try again, thanks for the info.

[SquashDemon]

I also noticed this change:
Made adjustments to the photon art behavior for Partisan’s Pick Up Throw, and Double Saber’s Fake Capture. Enemies that can’t be grabbed will still receive damage despite not being picked up from the Photon Art.

I don't understand why didn't they do this for Sword PA Cruel Throw as well... This is one of the most useless PA I've tried...
Actually Cruel throw has always done damage without pickup, the throw part of the tech will not hit, but the stab will still deal approx. 400% of standard attack. If you cannot pick up an enemy, a photon ball will be thrown instead, you can hit the enemy with this to do CT's Splash damage, which is about 1.5x the damage of a standard attack.

So it does work the same way, just not as good against bosses/stationaries.

[Maenara]

I imagine it could be fun to use with Chain Trigger, as well.

I might need to test this but unfortunately, while I don't need multiple trees for HU to perform well as a sub for both GU and RA, that's not the case with BR, that tree is currently occupado by TE subbery.

[xxmadplayerxx]

The love the new ranger Launcher PA, its so powerful if you aim for the weakpoints, taking out mobs in UQ is fun i have that feeling i am an unstoppable AIS.

[Maenara]

I noticed a huge discrepancy between weakpoint and nonweakpoint damage with Sphere Eraser over the five minutes I spent trying it out. It's still kinda eh though.

[Titan]

How do you get Zandeon?

[Gryffin]

Claris Claeys (Spelling?) is upstairs on the Gate Level. You must be a level 70+ Force or Techer, and take her CO. It consists of killing 70 creatures in XH quests using (I believe using Techs) and then you get the spell from her for turning it in. Its only usable when holding a Rod, Wand, or Talis.

[Maenara]

Claris Claeys (Spelling?) is upstairs on the Gate Level. You must be a level 70+ Force or Techer, and take her CO. It consists of killing 70 creatures in XH quests using (I believe using Techs) and then you get the spell from her for turning it in. Its only usable when holding a Rod, Wand, or Talis.

It's UQ, not XH quests.

[Rakurai]

Zandeon is doing about 25K damage per hit on enemies that are weak against it with both lightning and wind mastery taken, which amounts over 300K damage if I can get every hit to connect on a single enemy.

I'd like to get a chance to test it on Falz Arms/Elder...

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Having a bit of a problem adapting to snatch JA. Force of habit is hard to break.

Ignition parry is quite good at what it's for; facetanking and putting out damage.

My question is, does the guard frames in that PA trigger guard stance advance?

[Poyonche]

Claris Claeys (Spelling?) is upstairs on the Gate Level. You must be a level 70+ Force or Techer, and take her CO. It consists of killing 70 creatures in XH quests using (I believe using Techs) and then you get the spell from her for turning it in. Its only usable when holding a Rod, Wand, or Talis.

FO or TE has to be your main class.

I'm playing BO/TE, I see Zandeon charging, but when bar is full, can't use it even when holding a rod.

[usagi2607]

Actually Cruel throw has always done damage without pickup, the throw part of the tech will not hit, but the stab will still deal approx. 400% of standard attack. If you cannot pick up an enemy, a photon ball will be thrown instead, you can hit the enemy with this to do CT's Splash damage, which is about 1.5x the damage of a standard attack.

So it does work the same way, just not as good against bosses/stationaries.

I know that Cruel Throw has 2 stages: stab + throw. The stab part is 20% and throw is 80% of the power (pso2swiki). If the enemy cannot be thrown/grabbed, we basically lose the throw part (which is replaced by the white ball with very small damage). I did test again, the throw part on non-hold enemy is super low...
If you test the new adjustment for Zenith Throw in this update, you will notice that the damage of the throw part on non-hold enemies (such as: bosses) is the same as the hold-able enemies.
That was why I wondered why they don't make the same adjustment for Cruel Throw.

[EspeonageTieler]

I've only been using ice techs, but Zandeon charges up quickly (About four times faster then my photon blast does).

It seems worth using as long you have either Wind or Lightning mastery. I'd like to see the damage it can deal in the next UQ that presumably has lightning or wind weak enemies, since even against things that aren't weak against it, it's doing well over 100K damage total if I focus on a single enemy.

good thing i have both :^0

to bad my force is level 41!

[Touka]

Heartless Impact:travels far and knocks down on hit letting you combo stuff like back hand,I like it a lot.

Wind Sieger:without the kick it's a AoE with so so damage,with the kick its Kamen Rider Kabuto Rider Kick.Chuck Norris is also an acceptable answer.

Chase Arrow:.....what's the point of this when we have Banish?

Sphere Eraser:does decent damage but I guess the main reason to use it is for style points.

Haven't tried Ignite Parrying yet.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Chase Arrow:.....what's the point of this when we have Banish?


Are you like the 3rd person implying chase arrow and banish arrow are functionally the same thing? Did you actually use chase arrow?

[Maenara]

Yeah, Chase Arrow is actually really kind of amazing. I can only imagine how amazing it'd be with my CT build, especially if it's doing 30k damage per arrow like someone said it was. It'd also make my build way more reliable.

[Rakurai]

I do hope the next combination techs are Dark/Ice and Fire/Light, instead of the more predictable Dark/Light and Ice/Fire.

Neither lightning or wind are very relevant right now, so getting a combo tech that includes one of the more commonly used elements would be nice, though I'm only expecting that in January at the earliest.

[Maenara]

Neither lightning or wind are very relevant right now, so getting a combo tech that includes one of the more commonly used elements would be nice,

That's kind of counterintuitive don't you think?

[Touka]

Are you like the 3rd person implying chase arrow and banish arrow are functionally the same thing? Did you actually use chase arrow?

Ok so I looked back in this thread and it's different that what i'd assume it to be.The description sounded like Banish.I'll give it another whirl later on.

[LonelyGaruga]

I do hope the next combination techs are Dark/Ice and Fire/Light, instead of the more predictable Dark/Light and Ice/Fire.

Neither lightning or wind are very relevant right now, so getting a combo tech that includes one of the more commonly used elements would be nice, though I'm only expecting that in January at the earliest.

Zandeon was specifically stated to be intended to get more people to play Fo/Te and Te/Fo (for whatever reason), so most likely the remaining two combinations will be a Force element and a Techer element.

Personally, I would say Fire + Dark and Ice + Light are most likely.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Ok so I looked back in this thread and it's different that what i'd assume it to be.The description sounded like Banish.I'll give it another whirl later on.

Missed this?


You store up to 3 arrows in an alternate dimension. Next PA you land with your bow will fire stored arrows at the enemy. Does not persist through weapon change, and I assume area change, but lasts seemingly indefinately until you land your next PA.

[Maenara]

Zandeon was specifically stated to be intended to get more people to play Fo/Te and Te/Fo (for whatever reason), so most likely the remaining two combinations will be a Force element and a Techer element.

Personally, I would say Fire + Dark and Ice + Light are most likely.

After those, I'm expecting things like Wind/Light/Dark, Fire/Ice/Lightning, Ice/Wind/Lightning, Fire/Ice/Wind/Lightning, and finally Light/Dark/Wind/Fire/Ice/Lightning.

That is, if Sega wants to be REALLY cool.

[LonelyGaruga]

Eh, Zandeon's already too try-hard cool. Too close to Braver and Bouncer's over the top look at me I'm so awesome style. I'd have liked dual-element techs to behave like typical techs instead of this silly PB-esque mechanic. Dual element is cool, but more than that is try-hard.

They'll probably do it.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'd argue gunner was the first 'look at me i'm so awesome' tryhard class in looks. Just that they lack bite now...

[LonelyGaruga]

Yeah, Gunner too. Was debating on that one. Having attacks based on action movies that could be described in the same way does not help their case.

Don't get me wrong, I like how Braver handles katana (minus Shunka, it just clashes with the iaijutsu theme its other PAs have), and Dual Blades resembling Unlimited Blade Works is fun and all, but it simply cannot be denied that they're appealing to players in a way just as bad as all the fanservicey outfits. It's just base. Excessive badassery and fanservice = bad.

[Selphea]

I thought the main appeal of Bouncer was the huge hitboxes ._. I actually hate the elaborate PAs. Way too often you need to cancel and dodge before you get to the damaging part. I wish they had a no-nonsense PA that smacks something really hard for 20PP...

[LonelyGaruga]

Huge hitboxes are a part of how Bouncer is "Look at me, I'm so awesome!". Puts flash over function. Bouncer is more of a NEET class than Braver was. And when I name drop those two, I mean their melee weapons. Bows and Jet Boots aren't as bad.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It does irk me a little how good dispersion shrike is for... almost everything outside of photon blade fever spam. Katanas having a PA somewhere in the arsenal good for the moment feels a bit more 'right'.

I see that they didn't want a class' one available striking weapon still rely on another class' weapon to fill in what's missing in the arsenal, like VH Fi days, except BR has no other striking weapon than the katana.

[Selphea]

If hitbox size equated to flash I think Wind techs and Launchers would be #1 target there :P

Katanas, DBs and Boots seem to have been designed to address the relative weakness in mobbing of SATK weapons. Without those weapons, Rangers and Forces have much bigger hitboxes and better mobbing capabilities by far.

[LonelyGaruga]

I don't think I have to explain why it equates to flash for Dual Blades, and not wind techs (which don't even have larger hitboxes than other techs) or Launchers. Take a glance at Dual Blades and tell me they aren't excessively flashy with how they hit all over the place while you fly around and send blades everywhere. Meanwhile, with techs, you charge, release, and it happens. With Launchers, you fire a projectile, stuff blows up. Simple, not flashy at all, and not hitting all over the place. Just particular ranges.

Hunter weapons actually have been historically good for mobbing (particularly Wired Lances and Partisans), so saying Katana and Dual Blades were designed to fix that weakness is inaccurate. If you were talking about Fighter weapons specifically, you'd have a point, but all melee weapons collectively? No. The problem is, and always has been range. And since they're melee weapons, that's a necessary handicap, or they wouldn't be melee weapons. Every single melee weapon besides TD and DS have at least one projectile attack despite that anyway, so...yeah.

[Selphea]

Afaik Zan has the biggest coverage of an offensive tech since it shoots three fairly wide projectiles that fly everywhere in a much, much, much wider area than Dispersion Shrike. The DPS may not be amazing but the size of the affected area certainly seems to be.

I didn't watch FSN so that may have had something to do with it. When I saw Dispersion Shrike all I thought was "looks like Hurricane" - from Diablo 2 or Champions Online, and it's a multihit wide-area PBAoE in both games.

Afaik an attack like that, i.e. wide-area multihit mobile PBAoE, is something that hadn't existed in PSO2. Sword has Nova Strike which is slow on the draw and smaller, while Wired Lance has Wild Round which is immobile. To be honest I hardly ever see those two in MPAs, and Wild Round is pretty high up there on the flashiness scale too.

And yes the issue is range but imo by design ranged characters should be better at planting moderate-sized circles from afar while melee should have wider circles but at point blank.

Kanran has it about right for what I'd expect an ARPG PBAoE to be like. Dispersion personally feels like it has a bit too high DPS but otherwise an attack of that class isn't something that hasn't been done or balanced before in an ARPG.

As far as flash goes, Over End = flash. Ride Slasher = flash. Facet Folia = flash. Sphere Eraser = flash. Satellite Cannon = you can't honestly tell me calling down an ion cannon beam from the sky for multiple hits of 6-digit damage isn't flash. I think DBs and Katanas are par for the course next to other weapons and the wider Japanese RPG genre.

[Tivor]

Every single melee weapon besides TD and DS have at least one projectile attack

TDs got Dark Scherzo and DSs got Deadly Archer, although the former have always sucked, and the latter now sucks. Sorry, just being a nitpick ._.

[Schrodinger]

New Skills:
Hunter:
All Guard - allows you to block damage from all directions when using hunter weapons. MAIN CLASS ONLY. Cool skill in my book, very useful in any number of circumstances.

Fighter:
Double Saber Wind Parry - Allows you to Just Guard when activating the DS tornado. Uses 1 bar of the gear guage to do so, which is kind of lame. But to me this is a pretty necessary skill, since Double Saber lacks defensive options.
Twin Dagger Spin Move - Allows you to move during the TD spin attack if you hold a directional key during it. Kind of neat... I guess?
Knuckle Gear Boost - Doubles Knuckle Gear accumulation rate. Almost worthless in my book, it only takes 3 normal punches to max Knuckle gear, with this skill it'll take 2. WOW. The difference!

I'm unimpressed with these Fighter skills. I feel that each of them should have just been core mechanics everyone gets at level 1. The Knuckle Gear Boost is the worst of all, since it barely makes any change at all.

RANGER:
Dive Roll Shoot - Enables attack actions during Dive Roll. I don't see why this isn't a core skill at level 1 like Step Attack is now. I would have preferred if they made Dive Roll not terrible instead.
Moving Snipe - Increases damage while you're moving and shooting. A whopping 5% damage increase max, with 1 SP = 1%. I was looking forward to this skill, but this isn't worth it to me.

Gunner:
Dive Roll Shoot - See description for Ranger.
One More Time - When ShowTime expires without being hit, Showtime will be reactivated up to one more time. Worthless. Honestly, even if ShowTime was infinite and Chain Trigger applied to everything, I would still have a hard time going back to playing as Gunner. This class is so broken (and not in a good way) I just don't care. Sega needs to get off of the nerf juice.

Force:
Rod Keep Bonus - After using Charge Escape, it doesn't spend PP to use your charged techniques when using a rod. I feel like this should have been a mechanic that works for all weapons for Charge Escape from the start. But it's a nice addition now, nonetheless.

Techer:
Rebirth Bonus - Applies Shifta and Deband upon reviving an ally. Kind of convenient, only 1 point.
Reverser Field - Creates a field that revives an incapacitated ally. MAIN CLASS ONLY. The more points you put into it, the longer it lasts and more HP the revived person gets. MASSIVE 900 second cooldown (15 minutes), no matter if it's maxed or not. Might be worth a point, idk. Chances are you're only gonna get one use out of it per quest. Could be better.

I'm kind of disappointed Techer still doesn't have any skills to help with bossing with Wand melee, or single targets with high HP.

Braver:
Quick Mate - Increases speed of using 'mate items. Sega, in PSO1 'mate items and other healing items were instant. This is just patronizing. >.<
Snatch JA Combo - Adds a Just Attack timing window to Snatch Step. Kind of cool, but requires 5 points to get to it though. Not sure if worth it.

Bouncer:
Field Remain - Briefly maintains field effects for characters who leave the field (10 seconds). Neat I guess.
Break Stance D-Bonus - When using Dual Blades, the effects of Break Stance apply to non-breakable targets. MAIN CLASS ONLY. A lot of people have already gave Break Stance hell. Just go read Maninbluejumpsuit shit on it and you'll see what's up (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3206589).

New Photon Art:
Sphere Eraser (Launcher PA) - Fires a giant laser similar to the one AIs have in TD3. Burns through all of your PP in just a few seconds, for mediocre damage. Even with bullets loaded with maxed out PP Bullet Save. Only useful if you have a mass amount of targets in close proximity to each other and you hit nothing but their weakpoints/heads. At this point in time, Sphere Eraser is style over substance and a well-placed Cluster Bullet or Divine Launcher does the job better. Needs a massive buff in damage or a massive PP reduction. Or both. Something tells me it's probably underpowered because in testing, everyone just ran around with launchers Sphere Eraser'ing everything.

Still testing other PAs.

IN CONCLUSION... Meh.

[LonelyGaruga]

Afaik Zan has the biggest coverage of an offensive tech since it shoots three fairly wide projectiles that fly everywhere in a much, much, much wider area than Dispersion Shrike. The DPS may not be amazing but the size of the affected area certainly seems to be.

I didn't watch FSN so that may have had something to do with it. When I saw Dispersion Shrike all I thought was "looks like Hurricane" - from Diablo 2 or Champions Online, and it's a multihit wide-area PBAoE in both games.

Afaik an attack like that, i.e. wide-area multihit mobile PBAoE, is something that hadn't existed in PSO2. Sword has Nova Strike which is slow on the draw and smaller, while Wired Lance has Wild Round which is immobile. To be honest I hardly ever see those two in MPAs, and Wild Round is pretty high up there on the flashiness scale too.

And yes the issue is range but imo by design ranged characters should be better at planting moderate-sized circles from afar while melee should have wider circles but at point blank.

Kanran has it about right for what I'd expect an ARPG PBAoE to be like. Dispersion personally feels like it has a bit too high DPS but otherwise an attack of that class isn't something that hasn't been done or balanced before in an ARPG.

As far as flash goes, Over End = flash. Ride Slasher = flash. Facet Folia = flash. Sphere Eraser = flash. Satellite Cannon = you can't honestly tell me calling down an ion cannon beam from the sky for multiple hits of 6-digit damage isn't flash. I think DBs and Katanas are par for the course next to other weapons and the wider Japanese RPG genre.

Yes, Zan covers more range than Dispersion Strike. It's supposed to. But it isn't flashy at all. It's weak, does terrible damage when used outside of point blank range, and doesn't involve melee contact in any form or fashion, which is everything Dispersion Strike has going for flashiness. That's my point. Wind techs aren't flashy because they are understated and don't cause everything around you to suddenly die. DB PAs more or less do just that.

Unlimited Blade Works, despite being something well known, regularly parodied and referenced, and one of the signature moves of the character its most known for, is actually less flashy than DB PAs, in a sense. Archer uses UBW only once in F/SN (twice technically, but the scene cuts before the fighting begins), solely for tactical reasons (trying to prevent a character from successfully defending another one), and fails to accomplish anything of value. UBW has other, more practical and understated uses that have a better track record within the setting, but because they weren't as memorable as the storm of blades, UBW tends to get associated with that particular maneuver, particularly by people unfamiliar with the franchise (part of this would be that it's more difficult to explain or understand without getting into harder details within the franchise). Dual Blades, on the other hand, constantly shower blades all over the place without rhyme or reason or even bothering to take aim. It's ridiculous, and the only reason I name UBW to compare it is simply because UBW is one of the most memorable instances of a storm of blades in media, and F/SN should be somewhat recognizable due to the collaboration(s with the upcoming one). Dual Blades take the idea of a storm of blades and turns it into something that hurts to look at, with how inane and excessively flashy and "cool" many of its animations are. It tries and fails to capture what makes the concept interesting, but there's plenty of people with lower standards than mine that think it's the coolest thing in PSO2.

Regarding multi-hitting PAs, I wasn't trying to compare previously existing weapons to that aspect of Dual Blades. Just the mobbing. Which melee weapons have been doing fine. You don't need multi-hitting ranged attacks to be good at mobbing. I would call Wild Round understated flashiness, it's basically playing nunchuks with WLs. Nothing like what Dual Blades do.

And I won't deny that pretty much every weapon category has something flashy, but with Dual Blades, every single PA is pointlessly, excessively flashy. There's no balance with them.


TDs got Dark Scherzo and DSs got Deadly Archer, although the former have always sucked, and the latter now sucks. Sorry, just being a nitpick ._.

I don't count throwing the weapon unless it has distance equivalent to other projectiles. Dark Scherzo and Deadly Arecher are basically boomeranging melee attacks.

[Selphea]

Yes, Zan covers more range than Dispersion Strike. It's supposed to. But it isn't flashy at all. It's weak, does terrible damage when used outside of point blank range, and doesn't involve melee contact in any form or fashion, which is everything Dispersion Strike has going for flashiness. That's my point. Wind techs aren't flashy because they are understated and don't cause everything around you to suddenly die. DB PAs more or less do just that.

Which goes back to the point that Dispersion's DPS might be just a bit too high.


Unlimited Blade Works... *snip*

Mind giving me a YouTube of a good UBW scene just so I can see what the hype is about? If anything, Dual Blades felt to me like a combination of Gundam AGE-FX or Gundam Marute with SAO's Starburst Stream.

With the current trend I fully expect the next class to be a range/tech hybrid based on Strike Freedom or Hi-Nu Gundam, with gun bits as a main weapon and PAs that have them fly around in formation while spamming beams.


Regarding multi-hitting PAs, I wasn't trying to compare previously existing weapons to that aspect of Dual Blades. Just the mobbing. Which melee weapons have been doing fine. You don't need multi-hitting ranged attacks to be good at mobbing. I would call Wild Round understated flashiness, it's basically playing nunchuks with WLs. Nothing like what Dual Blades do.

Yea but it's a genre staple, I actually thought Wind would get that kind of AoE first.


And I won't deny that pretty much every weapon category has something flashy, but with Dual Blades, every single PA is pointlessly, excessively flashy. There's no balance with them.

I wonder if that's an intentional weakness. The Dual Blade PAs in general have very long animations but pretty low DPS to show for it. Even Dispersion is low-ish, just that its huge hitbox means when you hit a crowd of mobs your effective power for that PA could jump up to 10k spread across 9 targets. Otherwise, any instance where you can use Kestrel Rampage for example, you can use Holding Current or even Satellite Aim x4 for better results.

[Tivor]

Everything with dual blades looks like an "Super Combo" or "Desperation Move", I agree with that. It takes the cool and turns into banal stuff.

Changing subject, I've tested the TD spin-move-stuff. It's quite neat, I was hoping for it to move farther, but it can save you from some pain from things like the facility's bosses and attacks like the moving pools of red stuff from DF Loser or the light beam dome from Quartz without having to parry the whole thing (and risk taking damage if bad timing).

[Selphea]

Still levelling Gunner and haven't popped my skill reset yet, but will try Field Remain next and probably pick up T. Dagger Spin on the side since I'll be playing Bouncer with sub Fighter at 54 and can get exactly 1SP to buy it.

[NoiseHERO]

how far can you move with dagger spin now?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Mind giving me a YouTube of a good UBW scene just so I can see what the hype is about? If anything, Dual Blades felt to me like a combination of Gundam AGE-FX or Gundam Marute with SAO's Starburst Stream.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkOL55YAz-k

Gilgamesh is infamous for abusing much the same projectile spam several times more often.

[LonelyGaruga]

I wonder if that's an intentional weakness. The Dual Blade PAs in general have very long animations but pretty low DPS to show for it. Even Dispersion is low-ish, just that its huge hitbox means when you hit a crowd of mobs your effective power for that PA could jump up to 10k spread across 9 targets.

Whether it's an intentional weakness or not, my criticism is solely that, aesthetically, Dual Blades are poorly designed. It wasn't my intention to get into how functional they are in practice, and in all honesty, aesthetics and functionality have nothing to with each other. I'm well aware of the functionality, that simply cannot be argued, but the fact of the matter is, Dual Blades are flashy PA after flashy PA. None of them look functional like Partisan PAs (barring Speed Rain with its movement buff, it's lolfast now). They're all characters trying to be as try-hard cool and show-offy as they can be. It's pretty bad that the 4th trailer is toned down compared to the reality of the game, gymnastics aside.


Archer uses Unlimited Blade Works BGM edit - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkOL55YAz-k)

Gotta love how every single one either missed or was parried. Besides the one that blew up. But that's cheating.

Archer is one of my favorite fictional characters, with great lines, characterization, and scenes, but this is definitely not one of them. Sure, the last one did the trick, but that's 1 out of...well, I'm not counting, but then that really begs the question of why he didn't just send that out first. I hope ufotable does this scene more justice.

And that Kanshou & Bakuya get Dual Blade camos. Leaving them at Twin Dagger camos when Dual Blades are in the game would be ugh.

[Tivor]

how far can you move with dagger spin now?

I can't measure things really well from memory, but I'd say about 1 "gulf" of distance or so. Without its tail. But I'm trying to measure from the less optimistic POV, so it can be a little more than that. Also, both my characters are pretty small (160cm both), and I don't know if that is accounted for or not.

[Syklo]

how far can you move with dagger spin now?
It's a bit less than step.
But this is probably the best metric I can give:
You know that walkway on the campship? Right before the small stairway to the portal, there's a point where that walkway "pinches". The width of the walkway at that point is roughly the maximum distance you can cover with TD spin move.

I say maximum, because it's not like step where you move a specified distance (well, technically, you have an initial velocity that decays smoothly rather than being a discontinuous function), but rather, you're essentially "walking", but spinning. So you can do a knight's L; stop midway; start halfway through the spin; etc..

[Chdata]

I can't believe they pulled the same shit as before and that some rank 17 PAs are vastly stronger.
So much for balance. SEEGAAAAAAAAA!

But they did this on purpose. That much was even declared by them. You can only get them from the highest level areas which means you will primarily be using them where there power is warranted.

[Tivor]

That's quite the shitty game-design decision. If you can only get it in the area you'll need it, until you get it, you're pretty much screwed. You should be able to get it a little earlier somehow, like aditional reward for completing SH XQ only, for example.

[Rien]

The dumb part is the power jump is to boost melee so that they can do better

Except in boss fights melee can't hit shit with their movement patterns. And you know Zondeel is the best mobbing.

[FerrickX]

That's quite the shitty game-design decision. If you can only get it in the area you'll need it, until you get it, you're pretty much screwed. You should be able to get it a little earlier somehow, like aditional reward for completing SH XQ only, for example.

Use pre-17 OP TA/PAs
Upgrade said OP TA/PAs to even OP-er levels
?????
Profit?


-snip-
And that Kanshou & Bakuya get Dual Blade camos. Leaving them at Twin Dagger camos when Dual Blades are in the game would be ugh.

honestly they should just leave it at that and give dual blades the "awakened" version

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Use pre-17 OP TA/PAs








Hunt level 17 PAs










Still hunting...











Still hunting...










Upgrade said OP TA/PAs to even OP-er levels
?????
Profit?


Fixed that for you.

[Selphea]

Most PAs don't even get a big improvement. TMG PAs gain 1% on average. Same with Launchers, Rifles and Techs.. The melee ones seem to have jumped the most, like Twin Daggers at 15.6% (!) on average.

If anything maybe the suggestion should have been use ranged class until you pick up striking PAs :p

Also @ UBW: That looks more like Luther's time stop than PBF!

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Also @ UBW: That looks more like Luther's time stop than PBF!

In engrish:

"I have created over a thousand (photon) blades"

[xervah]

got lvl 17 namegid but meh... only 5%

[Walkure]

From what I've seen on the swiki:

Sword +10%, exceptions being Over End and Ride Slasher which get 5% and Ignite Parrying which gets 1% because it's a new PA.
Wired Lance at +10%, exception being Holding Current which gets 5%
Partisan at +10%, exceptions being Sacred Skewer at 5%. Trick Rave, Zenith Throw, and Slide Shaker haven't been posted yet.

Fighter weapons in general have all PAs up 15.6%, exceptions being Tornado Dance (22%), Chaos Riser (1%), Fake Capture (5%, though the grab is usable on bosses which might make it more interesting to use), Heartless Impact (1% since new PA) . No info on Quick March or Meteor Fist, maybe they get a 22% buff like Tornado Dance?

Gunslash seems to be getting 1% across the board, even melee PAs. Regenslag and Slash Rave don't have any info on them, but I don't see how they'd get different changes.

Katanas get a 10% improvement across the board, except for Shunka and Kanran which get only 5%.

Dual Blades flat 5%.

[Selphea]

Jet Boots 10% except Moment Gale (5%) and the new one because it's new.

[LonelyGaruga]

Also @ UBW: That looks more like Luther's time stop than PBF!

While UBW is what he's best known for, Archer normally fights with a pair of swords, which are in PSO2 as part of the F/SN collab (＊干将・莫耶, or Kanshou Bakuya, Twin Dagger camo). His typical fighting style uses either those or a bow (which is also in PSO2 as part of the collab). Between fighting with two swords and launching glowing blue swords all over the place, Dual Blades match very well with Archer's swordplay. Much better than Twin Daggers at any rate, though amazingly Dark Scherzo (which was used in the F/SN collab trailer to demonstrate Kanshou Bakuya) does resemble one of Archer's techniques.

Funnily enough, never saw a resemblance to Loser's time stop before. Typically, the reference I see is instead The World (or ZA WARUDO if you prefer).

And yeah, as was said.

I am the bone of my sword
Iron (Will) is my body, and photons are my blood
I have created over a thousand (photon) blades
Unknown to life, nor known to death
Withstood much pain to farm many weapons
Yet those hands will never hold anything
So, as I pray
Unlimited Drop Works!


got lvl 17 namegid but meh... only 5%

Huh, I thought rare bosses were still supposed to be the only source of their dropped PAs/techs. Is there a location to fight level 80 Haze Draals or is this misinformation? Or does Namegid now drop from other things and not just Haze Draal now?

[Dephinix]

I got lvl 17 NAzonde from UQ, I think a few other "rare" ones as well.

[Walkure]

Huh, I thought rare bosses were still supposed to be the only source of their dropped PAs/techs. Is there a location to fight level 80 Haze Draals or is this misinformation? Or does Namegid now drop from other things and not just Haze Draal now?I've seen L17 PAs drop from the XH EQs, so either a random Haze Draal appears and gets dunked by a roaming MPA, or Amduscia EQ pops up and you can farm it there.

[Dephinix]

Maybe that is right then, Zoron spawns in city doesn't he?

[Rakurai]

Some enemies drop rare skill discs that they wouldn't on other difficulties.

I've gotten Na Zan and Glory Rain skill discs from the city EQ, for instance.

[TaigaUC]

I got Lv17 RaGrants from UQ. There was another rare boss disc I got from XH, but I don't remember what it was. Deadly Circle, maybe?

[FerrickX]

i may be confused about something but is the new JB PA just a "build up JB gear, use skill and press shift when the indicator change colors, and watch us kick while wishing that the enemy doesn't move out"?

[LonelyGaruga]

I've seen L17 PAs drop from the XH EQs, so either a random Haze Draal appears and gets dunked by a roaming MPA, or Amduscia EQ pops up and you can farm it there.

Only XH EQs currently implemented are the City Clean-up (insect/aquatic darkers only) and Falz Arms/Elder, so those can't be it.


Some enemies drop rare skill discs that they wouldn't on other difficulties.

I've gotten Na Zan and Glory Rain skill discs from the city EQ, for instance.

Annnnd that explains it. Thanks, that's good to know.

[GoldenFalcon]

How are people getting like 190 max PP for Sphere Eraser?

[Remz69]

How are people getting like 190 max PP for Sphere Eraser?

getting 190pp total ?

unit craft*3 = 30
set = 25
soul*4 = 12
spirita III*4= 15
pp drink=20

probably something like this

[GoldenFalcon]

getting 190pp total ?

unit craft*3 = 30
set = 25
soul*4 = 12
spirita III*4= 15
pp drink=20

probably something like this

Wow, there's a set with 25 pp and crafting is that good now? daym

[Ordy]

Saiki set is +25PP
Craft the 3 units with the new PP extend > +30PP

That's 155PP without a single affix and buff

Soul+Spirita 3+Spirita Boost x 4 > + 48PP

203PP without drink, 223PP with PP drink, add a cake and you have 226PP

[Syklo]

i may be confused about something but is the new JB PA just a "build up JB gear, use skill and press shift when the indicator change colors, and watch us kick while wishing that the enemy doesn't move out"?
No. Like all Jet Boots PAs, there're 2 variants. When you use it, you'll charge up with the active element.
The kick is the shift variant.
If you don't press shift, you'll just release a burst of energy around you. At high gear, you'll force a status ailment relevant to the element spent.

(Although I cannot confirm it's probability of proccing on bosses, if any exists)

[GoldenFalcon]

It's worth noting that the kick apparently has an effective power of 4200~4426, but doesn't benefit from Gear's damage bonus OR the element you stored

[Syklo]

It's worth noting that the kick apparently has an effective power of 4200~4426, but doesn't benefit from Gear's damage bonus OR the element you stored
The effective power makes sense, but element has no effect?

I'm pretty sure it will at least affect the elemental damage of the kick........

[Rakurai]

I'm thinking he means that it cancels out whatever element you had stored before the kick is performed.

Which is dumb, since it means you'll be missing out on Elemental Stance's bonus if your boots don't have an innate element that's effective against the target.