How are your guys' first few days with Ult Quest?

[Lostbob117]

I'm patching atm to play since I wasn't able to play yesterday.

Though how has it been going for ya? Got anything good?

Also how are those droprates?

[Sinon]

kinda boring

[Searaphim]

Takes way too long for so little rewards. (Actually pretty close to none... until you finally get something , if you ever get something)
I do enjoy it's "hardcoreness?" though. Would totally play Ultimate on free fields and stuff.

[Poyonche]

For how hard it is, they should increase rare drop (10*-11*-12*-13*) in Ultimate. :v

[GreenArcher]

Takes way too long for so little rewards. (Actually pretty close to none... until you finally get something , if you ever get something)
I do enjoy it's "hardcoreness?" though. Would totally play Ultimate on free fields and stuff.

Ult quest has been out for not even 48 hours.......

[fay]

It's amazing to go into a level and feel like I can legit be killed. By legit I don't mean a boss that just one shots. Mass enemy spawns and quick reactions actually makes it kinda challenging. However the lack of everything (excluding mates and disks) just gets annoying. I just ran through with a 350% rare boost for an hour and a half and one even 1 rare drop. Not even a useless 7* thing.

[GreenArcher]

It's amazing to go into a level and feel like I can legit be killed. By legit I don't mean a boss that just one shots. Mass enemy spawns and quick reactions actually makes it kinda challenging. However the lack of everything (excluding mates and disks) just gets annoying. I just ran through with a 350% rare boost for an hour and a half and one even 1 rare drop. Not even a useless 7* thing.

Useless 7* things don't drop in ultimate quests.

[Zorua]

Having too much fun and getting too much FUN.

[The Walrus]

Meh. Whole lot of bullshit that didn't really drop anything of value.

[Sayara]

Useless 7* things don't drop in ultimate quests.

Except Rappy rares.

[fay]

Useless 7* things don't drop in ultimate quests.

In that case useless 10*s. A 10* is basically the new 7*. They're all useless now more or less. What I should have said is I haven't even saw a rare out of all that time, except the 7* rappy cannons now that I think of it.

[infiniteeverlasting]

so damn hard that its boring.
logged off 30 minutes after logging on :/ *goes back to dragon nest pvp*

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Two 11* back units and 12* rod with ancient oath. A bunch of shaq 11s I turned into passes, and some 10s. The challenge is nice.

[GreenArcher]

Anyway I just picked this up

[spoiler-box]http://i57.tinypic.com/eanq5w.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[Neith]

Useless 7* things don't drop in ultimate quests.

I know 9*s can drop, Religio dropped earlier for me. Thankfully they seem to be very rare.

Only had a couple of junk 10*s so far; Ult is fun but occasionally frustrating. I love that you can start where other players are but I hate that sometimes it gets you killed immediately as you spawn into a huge group of enemies or a boss.

The bosses themselves don't seem too hard (only exception to this so far being when you get 3 of the mammoths which can be a huge pain), they're only difficult because they have so much health and spawn with a huge amount of additional enemies.

Hard to judge properly yet but I honestly thought rares would drop a bit more often since you get so little EXP. It'd also be nice if daily orders could be for killing Ultimate enemies as well as I've not seen any yet.

[Vampy]

I find it okay not too difficult really more just tedious with how much health enemies have.

[Selphea]

Been too busy playing PSO2 (Player Shop Online 2) >_> Had 200+ items in storage to dump

[Maenara]

I find it okay not too difficult really more just tedious with how much health enemies have.

It's not that it's 'harder', per se. A full MPA in UQ makes UQs about as easy as soloing SHAQs. That is to say, enemies actually survive long enough in an MPA to attack you. And honestly, that's all that was needed to make various enemies that much more challenging.

[Xaelouse]

needs way more reward for the amount of effort everyone has to put in
I mean like, fodders dropping with much higher affixes, non-shit droprates, etc. Flict/Magia and Modulator affixes actually becoming common so people could remember the affix update, stuff like that

[Maenara]

It'd be nice if Clones could spawn in UQs, full MPA makes 12 clones. That'd actually be quite challenging IMO.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It'd be nice if Clones could spawn in UQs, full MPA makes 12 clones. That'd actually be quite challenging IMO.

They'd have to have hitstun/knockdown resistance.

Besides... knowing i got modulator 4s units for under 2mil per before they went up to 5.25mil recently makes me all fuzzy inside.

[gigawuts]

http://puu.sh/cZ5rv/8991749e4a.png

I forgot I made a CSS thingy to display that.

[Ezodagrom]

Too chaotic for my taste, just too much stuff going on at the same time, not going to be learning enemies new patterns and such if I can't even see what is going on...

Hoping that eventually there'll be single party quests that use the enemies and areas from UQs (of course, with HP and numbers of enemies at once scaled for 4 players)...

[rashoood]

seeing a few friends with yamigarasu makes me a bit annoyed lol I hope i get one atleast (just for the sake of it geez)

[Agastya]

everybody started dying the moment i stopped playing te/br

[Rakurai]

It's nice that the enemies don't just melt in seconds, and the bosses are actually fairly balanced in terms of how much damage their attacks deal for how hard they are to avoid. (Save for the revamped Rockbear's three hit combo killing pretty much anybody if they get caught in it, though that's a problem with most combo attacks in general).

I've taken to not bothering with rare drop boosters unless an Anga Fandarge or rare boss shows up, though. It seems like the only things that even drop 12* items are the bosses, while the normal enemies only drop 11* items, and everything drops 10* randomly, judging from reports on the JP wiki.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It's nice that the enemies don't just melt in seconds.

I've taken to not bothering with rare drop boosters unless an Anga Fandarge or rare boss shows up, though.

Yeah gonna start doing that. Also need to affix LR3 to crafted MKB for rocky-bears/rock-balboas; the soul is the best thing since quartz.

The new soul lineup lead me to believe we're going to get what I'd like to call "balanced", and "tanky" versions of that soul (similar to gwana and vol). R and T atk souls from ult should will get whatever versions they're missing too. If I'm right, bayari soul will be the thing to use for at least a year as S atk, and mizer/elder users who like their PP may want to wait before replacing their old souls.

[Stickboy]

drop rate is shit, how are you guys getting those rares

[strikerhunter]

I like the update. Nothing too bad Nothing too good. Only thing that needs to be fix is the loot table and drop rates.

With that being said, where we all expecting something else? I mean it's only the first Ult quest and only about 48 hours so far. Watch Sega dumb down Ult mobs health in a month or 2 because of player complaints all the way back to 1 smack K.O.s.

As far as I'm concern, at least deaths are more legit and not something out of stupidly high damage/flinch feast.

[Meteor Weapon]

People complain about everything I guess. I don't even care about rares anymore and just wanted to smack stuff with eeryone else.

My eye hurts a lot because of shiny clusterfucks everywhere. Still nice map ever since freefields are dead since AQ was a thing.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

flinch feast.

Eh... some BS still happens like getting smacked by bird dragon, bounce off a wall, then land in lingering fire pillar.

[Touka]

Too chaotic for my taste, just too much stuff going on at the same time, not going to be learning enemies new patterns and such if I can't even see what is going on...

I love how chaotic it is,it prevent me from going into lazy mode.Like using Sols to get rid of bear pain status and the constant mate healing.It's true that it's hard to tell whats going on most of the time though.

[BIG OLAF]

Yeah, Ultimate really keeps you alert and almost a bit nervous most times.

I mean, after a while, it gets bothersome never having a second of downtime, but it's entertaining and different, I think.

[Stealthcmc1974]

Fields, Techs, and attacks everywhere. Enemies from all sides. and then those bosses with those crazy attacks, like the fire pillars to make it literally hell on earth.

You have to constantly keep looking around if you don't want to get hit, but you're gonna get hit anyway.

Its definitely more fun than the usual fare, that's for sure. All I'm wondering is if we will only get one UQ zone per planet, since they sorta lumped the Ultimate versions of enemies from all three zones of Naberius into the Corrupted Forest..

[.Jack]

Overall I find it fun with lots of action in every direction, the only thing I'm not liking is the amount of HP the 2 boss have. Just fighting both in one mission will wear out an entire booster. :no:

[Mattykins]

Was hoping for something like classic PSO Ult, but it's really just Atrocious Ocean with rapey mobs >:V

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Was hoping for something like classic PSO Ult, but it's really just Atrocious Ocean with rapey mobs >:V

For classic PSO ult, wouldn't the first thing you have to do is lock the mpa and make it a single party quest? :-?

Doesn't it feel same-y because we have 12 person kill squads running around the map? Only diff being things taking some effort to kill, instead of around a half dozen FOs vaporize everything while everyone else gets to be bored?

[strikerhunter]

Overall I find it fun with lots of action in every direction, the only thing I'm not liking is the amount of HP the 2 boss have. Just fighting both in one mission will wear out an entire booster. :no:

Surprisingly I'm actually fine with this but not fund of Ult Mal's HP size (maybe because 2 are active that's why). Normally in a decent group I will run off about 5-10 minute of my boosters (counting 2+ of the new bosses).

[wefwq]

Overall I find it fun with lots of action in every direction, the only thing I'm not liking is the amount of HP the 2 boss have. Just fighting both in one mission will wear out an entire booster. :no:
Depends on MPA and boss spawned, sometimes you'll see bird thing boss along with UQ de malmoth that will crush entire MPA.

[Kilich]

I thought it would be more than a harder Advanced.

Maybe with different spawn compositions and some area specific gimmick, like having rocks that can fall and stun if you shoot them, or something.

Maybe even going for smaller spawns that are slower, but with more attacks and make most of buffs and debuffs helpful, because the mobs will survive for long enough.

[Rien]

They need to make FP's unusable for these

[Rakurai]

They need to make FP's unusable for these

...They are?

I'm surprised I didn't see any yet, but that's really stupid.

[Rien]

I've met a 12/12 mpa that was actually 7/12

We had 5 fucking FP's despite me asking in both japanese and english to remove them

And we had 2 red code:disasters, so I didn't want to just jump ship despite knowing it would take forever to take it down.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Still feel like the only reason some say it feels like more of the same because there's a dozen people on the map that spawn on top of each other.

If we had a single party quest with:

-ult enemy AI/patterns/damage levels.
-more hitsun resistant infections on enemies adding value to hardstuns and freezing like PSO ult (hardstuns do not break on attacks on enemies immune to hitstun, such as gilnach).
-maybe... a requirement to complete in A1 to gain access to A2, a boss, and an RDR boost in order to kill off boss rushing. Maybe something like... the % tracker for apos kills before luther, except a certain threshold is required to get in A2. Enemy kills increase it. Player KOs decrease it. Going higher ups RDR.
-telepipes disabled.
-'return to campship' replaced with 'retire' if KOed.
-maybe just to screw with players make fungi/ecode rescue happen at least once!
-oh! E-code protection completion for aircraft is required to have air support. May throw down some fire, or come to a cleared grid to drop off a green box with like... 4 mates/atomizers once every 2 or 3 grids maybe. Fail, and have no air support for the remainder of the quest.
-No additional enemies spawn with bosses.

No limits to how much you can run this quest.
The lower exp is perfectly fine.
Make friends with reverser field techers, and coordinate moon atomizer useage. Mag production devices could be left as is maybe... actually production triggers are fine. Just make it so friendly vtol will never drop off healing items.

I kinda came up with this as I went. I'm sure I could come up with more ways to re-purpose old trivial ecodes given time. Whaddya guys think? I feel like this would be a quest that would really want you to get 3 of your trusted bros, make an actual coordinated team effort, and feel damn good clearing it.

[Rien]

The "NPC NEEDS HELP" attack codes are already dumb as shit seeing how fast they die. Especially when it triggers together with a boss.

[jooozek]

for the ~30 runs i did, i never got anything higher than 10*, ridiculous as fuck :no:

[Rakurai]

I got a multitude of 11* weapons, but they were all outdated ones.

Got a bunch of excube fodder 10 stars, as well, but not nearly enough to cover for my expenses.

The only "good" things I got were two Grissith leg units, but the set doesn't seem that spectacular overall (240 HP, 6 PP, and 100 to all ATK stats for both units plus the set bonus).

[landman]

I only tested it a little bit the first day (had a bunch of old dailyes to complete, and tacos next day) and what I got from that little solo experience is that they made it easy for technick users: ice and light. Ice can deal easily with groups, light too, but also the enemies were easily confused and fought each other... but then the dragon came, and I was not even able to attack him :wacko: I also noticed the very low damage they were inflicting me...

[W i n t e r]

Hellephants.

They are the bane of my existence.

[Rakurai]

I find the revamped Garongos more annoying for the fact that they don't have a perpetually exposed weak point, plus their hitboxes are messed up and it's much harder to actually hit said weak point then it should be.

[Kondibon]

I only tested it a little bit the first day (had a bunch of old dailyes to complete, and tacos next day) and what I got from that little solo experience is that they made it easy for technick users: ice and light. Ice can deal easily with groups, light too, but also the enemies were easily confused and fought each other... but then the dragon came, and I was not even able to attack him :wacko: I also noticed the very low damage they were inflicting me...I feel like SEs in general are more useful in Ultimate simply because stuff stays alive long enough for stuff like confuse, freeze, and shock's cc to keep them from constantly attacking, and they have enough hp that poison seems worth using too. Burn and mirage are still meh though. I get the feeling this will change once more people hit the new cap, get more skill points, better gear, and ultimate buster is more common. I did a run with Giga that only had 2 other people, and while we struggled on bosses, everything else was pretty ok (aside for the whole getting hit from every direction thing)
EDIT: Oh and stun is useful too, the hyper armor enemies get actually makes it easier to keep them stunned.

Also, yes the damage is pretty low. I think most deaths come from getting stunlocked and juggled by stuff you can't see through all the particle effects going off in big MPAs.

[xervah]

it's more FUN and challenge that you are not making "lazy" mode to do...
but the only thing mpa harder is spwning 2 de malmoth and your entire mpa is dead...

[Ce'Nedra]

Boring really. I logged off serval times to play Hyrule Warriros instead and I have much more fun with that right now :|

I mean I like that UQ mobs actually give you a harder time and such but most of them are just cheapass chainings. The bosses are quite fun to fight aside the Malmoths which are just even more annoying then they always were due to their speed increase.

[Ezodagrom]

I love how chaotic it is,it prevent me from going into lazy mode.Like using Sols to get rid of bear pain status and the constant mate healing.It's true that it's hard to tell whats going on most of the time though.
I meant more that it's visually too chaotic, with 12 players there's too many shiny effects going on and such.

[Squal_FFVIII]

I thought this board wanted something more difficult? Now everyone's complaining that the enemies attack too fast and that they have too much HP? Now I've known this before, but this is proof that most people here will never be satisfied with this game lol.

Overall I don't like it that much. But I wasn't one of the "SEGAC MAKE THIS GAME HARDER" whiners to begin with. Seems way too chaotic and just gives me a headache with all the flashy stuff going on non stop.

The enemy reskins are cool though along with the new bosses. It def has that old school pso feeling (assuming anyone here played pso).

[Kondibon]

I thought this board wanted something more difficult? Now everyone's complaining that the enemies attack too fast and that they have too much HP? Now I've known this before, but this is proof that most people here will never be satisfied with this game lol.

Overall I don't like it that much. But I wasn't one of the "SEGAC MAKE THIS GAME HARDER" whiners to begin with. Seems way too chaotic and just gives me a headache with all the flashy stuff going on non stop.

The enemy reskins are cool though along with the new bosses. It def has that old school pso feeling (assuming anyone here played pso).Don't confuse getting stunlocked to death by something you couldn't see, in a tiny room with a boss that takes up half the space for difficulty.

[Maenara]

I thought this board wanted something more difficult? Now everyone's complaining that the enemies attack too fast and that they have too much HP? Now I've known this before, but this is proof that most people here will never be satisfied with this game lol.

Overall I don't like it that much. But I wasn't one of the "SEGAC MAKE THIS GAME HARDER" whiners to begin with. Seems way too chaotic and just gives me a headache with all the flashy stuff going on non stop.

The enemy reskins are cool though along with the new bosses. It def has that old school pso feeling (assuming anyone here played pso).

I for one think it's a step in the right direction, but it could use more difficulty. See, it might take a while to kill that ultimate rockbear, even with a full MPA, sure. But this thing is, it's GOING to die. That's a fact. There needs to be some punishing or restrictive factor in play to eliminate this certainty. Once this happens, we can start massively increasing droprates, because now even getting drops is a meritocracy.

[Kondibon]

I for one think it's a step in the right direction, but it could use more difficulty. See, it might take a while to kill that ultimate rockbear, even with a full MPA, sure. But this thing is, it's GOING to die. That's a fact. There needs to be some punishing or restrictive factor in play to eliminate this certainty. Once this happens, we can start massively increasing droprates, because now even getting drops is a meritocracy.
That's something I'd rather see from big bosses like Elder and Luther (along with making it easier to organize parties for them).

Besides, it doesn't matter how "Difficult" something is, people will always get it down to a formula.

[Maenara]

True. But at least that would require a formula.

[Kondibon]

It's worth mentioning that despite the flaws it highlights, I feel pretty confident now that making enemies take longer to kill and move around does infact open up a lot of mechanics that are usually made redundant by the zondeel and oneshot meta (status effects and large AoE techs like Gibarta for example). I'm just worried that once everyone is geared up and leveled up people will be face rolling UQs too.

[Justin iZ Here]

I'm honestly quite done with the new UQ...I've been at it since it came out and I think I've gotten total maybe 4 10 star weapons and one 11 star weapon that was garbage (zero afixes). I'm going to pick up pokemon ORAS today anyways, I'll try out UQ again in a week or so and see if they fixed the god awful drop rates.

[Netro Shine]

Still feel like the only reason some say it feels like more of the same because there's a dozen people on the map that spawn on top of each other.

If we had a single party quest with:

-ult enemy AI/patterns/damage levels.
-more hitsun resistant infections on enemies adding value to hardstuns and freezing like PSO ult (hardstuns do not break on attacks on enemies immune to hitstun, such as gilnach).
-maybe... a requirement to complete in A1 to gain access to A2, a boss, and an RDR boost in order to kill off boss rushing. Maybe something like... the % tracker for apos kills before luther, except a certain threshold is required to get in A2. Enemy kills increase it. Player KOs decrease it. Going higher ups RDR.
-telepipes disabled.
-'return to campship' replaced with 'retire' if KOed.
-maybe just to screw with players make fungi/ecode rescue happen at least once!
-oh! E-code protection completion for aircraft is required to have air support. May throw down some fire, or come to a cleared grid to drop off a green box with like... 4 mates/atomizers once every 2 or 3 grids maybe. Fail, and have no air support for the remainder of the quest.
-No additional enemies spawn with bosses.

No limits to how much you can run this quest.
The lower exp is perfectly fine.
Make friends with reverser field techers, and coordinate moon atomizer useage. Mag production devices could be left as is maybe... actually production triggers are fine. Just make it so friendly vtol will never drop off healing items.

I kinda came up with this as I went. I'm sure I could come up with more ways to re-purpose old trivial ecodes given time. Whaddya guys think? I feel like this would be a quest that would really want you to get 3 of your trusted bros, make an actual coordinated team effort, and feel damn good clearing it.

Glorious. My roommate plays WoW and his sentiment that there needs to be harsh punishment for death since right now, if you die you just wait for somebody to pitch a Moon. You incur no penalty and actually your death costs somebody else 250 Meseta. If you really wanted to make the game a challenge, no moons, no scape dolls. Your CC and defensive capabilities become a lot more valuable, not to mention Reverser Field.


I for one think it's a step in the right direction, but it could use more difficulty. See, it might take a while to kill that ultimate rockbear, even with a full MPA, sure. But this thing is, it's GOING to die. That's a fact. There needs to be some punishing or restrictive factor in play to eliminate this certainty. Once this happens, we can start massively increasing droprates, because now even getting drops is a meritocracy.

Right here is what I think is the bane of higher drop rates in this game. I want victory to be an uncertainty, but that doesn't necessarily make for a popular game. I kinda wish SEGA had something like Challenge Mode on here, except nightmarishly difficult FOR THE RIGHT REASONS. I had hope for Extreme Quests, but they turned out to be a let down.

[Justin iZ Here]

Glorious. My roommate plays WoW and his sentiment that there needs to be harsh punishment for death since right now, if you die you just wait for somebody to pitch a Moon. You incur no penalty and actually your death costs somebody else 250 Meseta. If you really wanted to make the game a challenge, no moons, no scape dolls. Your CC and defensive capabilities become a lot more valuable, not to mention Reverser Field.




Considering how those roller assholes fly all over the place constantly, death having a real penalty would be infuriating and would probably just cause me to say fuck it. I've had upwards of nine of those rolling bastards flying around at once while also killing a boss, the second one hits you at all you are dead.

[Netro Shine]

If death had a sharper penalty, they could ease up on cheap tactics like that since players would be cautious enough. I honestly feel those guys were thrown in to increase the value of All Guard just like half the enemies in the Floating Facility break down to spinal parts so that way Break Stance isn't nearly as useless there...

[Justin iZ Here]

Not really sure how they could make death have a penalty considering gear does not have durability, the most they could do would be to disallow the use of moons on the UQ map but that would just involve throwing out a telepipe before boss fights and if you die just revive and spawn back in on the pipe.

[Kondibon]

Rather than seeing a penalty for dying I think it would be better for their to be a reward for not dying. I think the requirements for getting an S-rank should be stricter (dying at all decreases your rank instead of just going back to the camp ship). Then have the rank rewards be something worth going for. In this way people are both incentivised to actually complete the quest as well as try not to die.

The biggest problem is that a lot of the deaths in the game are from bullshit, not bad gameplay. It stops sounding as fair when a single stray attack is enough to end up getting you killed.

EDIT: when I say rank rewards I mean something like AQ or XQ stones that you can exchange for stuff rather than having to get lucky with RNG. I'm sure some people think RNG should be the only way to get endgame gear though. :/

[Justin iZ Here]

The biggest problem is that a lot of the deaths in the game are from bullshit, not bad gameplay. It stops sounding as fair when a single stray attack is enough to end up getting you killed.


This is my biggest problem with deaths having a penalty, some deaths in UQ just can't be avoided. When the giant chicken shoots 4 fire rays all around you, you kinda just die as no matter where you dodge it still hits you.

[Netro Shine]

Rather than seeing a penalty for dying I think it would be better for their to be a reward for not dying. I think the requirements for getting an S-rank should be stricter (dying at all decreases your rank instead of just going back to the camp ship). Then have the rank rewards be something worth going for. In this way people are both incentivised to actually complete the quest as well as try not to die.

The biggest problem is that a lot of the deaths in the game are from bullshit, not bad gameplay. It stops sounding as fair when a single stray attack is enough to end up getting you killed.

EDIT: when I say rank rewards I mean something like AQ or XQ stones that you can exchange for stuff rather than having to get lucky with RNG. I'm sure some people think RNG should be the only way to get endgame gear though. :/

I like this idea! But yeah, the rate at which random strings of events lead to your death by a miraculous coincidence seems a tad (more like extremely) obnoxiously high.

I'm also of the opinion that RNGs should give something nice, but you should be able to earn nice stuff as well. I think a system like this would be a nice coexistence as long as the prices weren't too steep or the rewards under powered.

[Kondibon]

I'm also of the opinion that RNGs should give something nice, but you should be able to earn nice stuff as well. I think a system like this would be a nice coexistence as long as the prices weren't too steep or the rewards under powered.Yes, something like, you always get X amount of whatever stones for XQs, but enemies still have a chance to drop them or the units.

[Achelousaurus]

As I mentioned in the other topic, ult is a huge clusterfuck and causes sensory overload for me.
It's annoying rather than hard.
When I can actually see the boss I can just dodge it but most of the time enemy models and PA animations obscure a large part of the screen.

With a bad mpa it's slow and bothersome but with a good one it's only a bit slower than regular mpa runs.

Balanced around 4 rather than 12 people. I must say I really like this cause getting 4 people is fine, getting 12 is hard once the novelty wears off.

It's kinda fun but giving crap exp really hurts cause even 10* weapons are rare.
The exp should be adjusted to be at least like in SH so it's not a complete waste of time most of the time.

[Sinon]

worst update ever, this UQ is so booooring.

[Ordy]

As I mentioned in the other topic, ult is a huge clusterfuck and causes sensory overload for me.
It's annoying rather than hard.
When I can actually see the boss I can just dodge it but most of the time enemy models and PA animations obscure a large part of the screen.


I don't know what you are talking about.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/iIaCjVl.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[jcart953]

I thought this board wanted something more difficult? Now everyone's complaining that the enemies attack too fast and that they have too much HP? Now I've known this before, but this is proof that most people here will never be satisfied with this game lol.
.

Hahaha omg this so much ^. Some of these complaints are hilarious, especially the ones where people expect to pop 1 rare drop booster and get like all the rares in the game in like day 1. Now that's not to say I wouldn't mind if they added a slightly different way to get rares kinda like the idea Kondibon stated.

Anyways, although ultimate is sort of chaotic I like it since it's different. I only died twice so far and that's mainly because I was running around with limit break and got stun-locked. The only thing I do wish they added was at least two fields at once for diversity. Or an additional option for a 4player quest so where not all spamming the same thing over and over but eh w/e.

[Lostbob117]

http://puu.sh/cZ5rv/8991749e4a.png

I forgot I made a CSS thingy to display that.

wow rude :^)

[Dnd]

starting my 12th hour in UQ's, still yet to get a 12* on 330~380% + prem drink perma rdr yet others have 3 or even more..

Same pso2 but dressed up to be shinier. same skewed RNG, same bs chaining (Now with 84% more lifting animations!)...

At least the mobs dont fall over in 2 seconds, which is refreshing to see a dagen eat a 120k kick in the weakspot and just get back up and steal the rest of your PP xD

[Achelousaurus]

I don't know what you are talking about.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/iIaCjVl.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
lmao, yeah.

I'm a bit divided about enemy HP. In general I like enemies putting up more of a challenge and not dying instantly.
But on the other hand I am used to and often quite enjoy Sega style speed killing.

Oh and I was so worried at first cause of the "balancing around 12 players" part.
My bad for taking Sega seriously. This is more than feasible with a decent 4 player party, just friends is not enough though.

Still, I'm pretty much counting days until the first solo vid. And then the first solo vid of someone wrecking Anga and Diaboi at the same time.

[reaper527]

i'm a fan of the uq's, but it's really highlighting how god awful sega's auto lockon is. it's practically impossible to lock onto a lot of the secondary infections, especially on bosses like the elephants. you'll try to lock on and end up either on a different body part or on a different enemy all together, and if you try hitting tab, it's just going to alternate between the same two wrong targets.

with guns this isn't a huge problem since you can free aim, but for melee weapons it kind of sucks.

[Macman]

Everyone else seems to have all the cool stuff already and I only have found Dio 10* garbage.

Eh, at least it's fun. No idea how long it'll last though if I keep getting screwed over by RNG and left in the dust gear wise yet again like in the VH days. I don't think I can handle a drought that bad again.

[STNFCST]

Like 12 mpa not even raid level though.

People can't handle fast action game yet playing and complaining about fast action being fast action. How funny some can get.

Thinking about changing class Braver Katana is not really suited for UQ. It's like PsoBB HUnewearl, from PSP2 prenerf Duman to PSP2i Duman. The more difficult quest become the more different in between class tier. Utterly that using best weapon won't do a job.

[gigawuts]

wow rude :^)

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/388/icon.jpg

[Sanguine2009]

i wish the new bosses were stronger. the dragon has a massive blind spot between his legs for most of his attacks and both only have a chance to kill if they stun lock you. though i suppose thats more an issue with heals being too abundant than anything.

mobs just feel like hp sponges. its nice they dont die instantly in 12p MPAs but at the same time they are not exactly threatening either, even solo.

[xxmadplayerxx]

UQ was a chaotic at first for me, but i found once you learn the mobs and bosses movements it can be quite relaxing to play.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

UQ was a chaotic at first for me, but i found once you learn the mobs and bosses movements it can be quite relaxing to play.

Relaxing is the last thing it is for me. I do so much damage at times, everything attacks me. I need to lay off, seriously.

[Stickboy]

im spamming overend braindead

[TaigaUC]

Okay, finally got around to trying UQ in a multi for the first time.
It felt basically the same as any other kill for points quest, except with barely any EXP gain.

Between that and XH City, super yawn.
After two years, we're basically getting the same stuff PSO2 started out with.
I'm afraid this will be the start of a trend where SEGA dripfeeds higher HP versions of everything.

[Tetsuo9999]

The improved difficulty and chaos is nice, but expecting players to fight their heart out for below average EXP and dismally low drop rates is a bit stubborn on Sega's part. If getting the new gear is 100% RNG, they should at least increase the EXP. Considering that any player who isn't blessed by the RNG gods is going to be stuck grinding there for dozens of hours to get what they want, getting a bit more EXP would make things less monotonous. I won't be surprised if they increase the rates soon, but then again I imagine they made it such a grind just to buy time until their next update is ready. I've done it twice, and it's not something I'd want to do for hours on end daily.

I also feel like this update is a bit counterproductive for the overall state of the game. All the UQ blocks are constantly full, but it's made the rest of the game a barren wasteland aside from EQs. It reminds me of PSU and how everyone ignored the rest of the game to do White Beast over and over due to the high EXP ratio. Since the drop rates are so bad, I don't see this changing anytime soon unless everyone just gets tired of grinding in the same difficult quest and bearing no fruits for their labor.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Yeah... at least ult keeps me awake. I have posted several ideas to make a legit quest out of it though.

Freaking city XH though...

Tacking more HP on already braindead AI does not make it harder. It makes it tedious. It's a fine difficulty setting for many 12man MPAs, but I'd rather not see that become the standard go-to difficulty we're all doing DOs and TAs on.

Also, wtb disk drop rate increase.

[Tetsuo9999]

This game is already a casualized action game, and the UQs are a wake-up call to those who are accustomed to one-shotting everything. I don't think making things harder would do well for the game, especially considering how it's the only thing people are running right now. An extra mode with revive/item/retry restrictions could work, but only if the drop rates are drastically improved. No one in their right mind would want to play an even harder UQ mode if the grind to get desired drops takes the same amount of time. Most of the damage to players is out of their control (the bird's huge AOE attacks with almost no warning, getting hit offscreen by trash mobs, and just random damage from all the chaos going on), and knowing Sega, they wouldn't do a good job in balancing that on a harder mode.

Is the 12 star katana any good? It's the only thing I want from the mode that's at least partially realistic, but it's only dropped around 350 times since the update.

[VagrantVan]

How long does it take y'all to break the winged cores? I'd like to get an idea of how easily I should be getting rid of them, because that's really been the only issue I've had with UQs. That super armor and the swarm of mobs make it so that it's like a Banther fight 24/7.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Is the 12 star katana any good? It's the only thing I want from the mode that's at least partially realistic, but it's only dropped around 350 times since the update.

The potential is a mimic of Fi's tech arts JA.

Most of the time, consecutive use of one PA is the better option. If you already have bio, sukei suzumi & friends, orochiagito, or achieved your sange & yasha-boner I wouldn't be too excited to get yami.

[Fusionxglave]

only had six people and that was enough to kill the bird and photon blast creature. still on the look out for the new 11 star set and 12 star weapons.

13 stars weapons need a boost item which I am running really low on.

it is fun but I feel though I am not getting much out of it. The effort to kill each monster and only getting 40 mesta seems disappoint.

[Achelousaurus]

And I just had a run where killing the bird took 10 minutes, then we ran into bird + 3x mammoth and it took twenty, everyone ran out of moons repeatedly (no WB either from the rangers) and the instant I go back to ship for the first time to stock up on mates (cause not a te could be assed to use resta, not even the one in my party) everything dies.

What I had feared actually happens but is sometimes alleviated by ult being not as hard as I thought.
If you don't have a good mpa it's hell and for little exp and a bunch of cubes (not even meseta drops are worth mentioning) it's just far too frustrating and far too long.

Only if you have a good mpa (and people don't randomly leave what I've seen quite a few times already, regardless of EQs) it's worth to do ult.
So in the end you need a lot of people for this anyway.

I think I am done with ult until enough people have good gear to make up for their bad skills.

Nowadays VH isn't an issue cause everyone and their dog has 10* weapons and units and often enough 11* weapons.
It cannot make truly up for lacking skill but it goes a long way.
Once most people have 11* units and 12-13* weapons I am gonna do some ult again.
Before that only on rare occasions when I can get a premade mpa of people I know aren't crap.

[Macman]

Once most people have 11* units and 12-13* weapons I am gonna do some ult again.
But once they have that stuff they won't be wanting to do UQ anymore.

[SakoHaruo]

I played Ult for one day, haven't touched it since.

Let me know when a game changer is released.

[GoldGenII]

Feels too much like SHAQs to me. Save for the fact there's no entry fee (aside from time). Go in, kill stuff, maybe get a few rares. But most importantly: Get the PA's exclusive to it

Once that last part gets done, UQs will pretty much be ignored by me and it'll be back to d/o's and tacos to finance the Waifu Simulator life.

[Cyron Tanryoku]

Feels too much like SHAQs to me. Save for the fact there's no entry fee (aside from time).
so basically its better

[Z-0]

It's also nothing like SHAQ, because AQs drop affixes so you can make monetary progress while you play, while UQ drops absolutely nothing, except maybe one or two excubes every 30 minutes.

[GoldGenII]

Enemies are purposefully made a higher level than players, pretty much enforces party play
, and has PA's exclusive to it. Felt like I was in a better AQ to me, but maybe I'm wrong on that notion.

[Rakurai]

It's kind of dumb how long it takes to kill the Rockbears and De Malmoths if you don't have multiple FOs in the group, as they're the only ones who can really get at their weak points with any degree of consistency with how much they move around.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It's kind of dumb how long it takes to kill the Rockbears and De Malmoths if you don't have multiple FOs in the group, as they're the only ones who can really get at their weak points with any degree of consistency with how much they move around.

Honestly ilbarta is a godsend for them. Really should go Fo/Br and... grudgingly change Rikauteri to ice.

Are ice ele changers in current scratch or not? Need to know if I should bend over now or later to buy one.

[KazukiQZ]

^Ice is currently not in scratch, hence the price tag of 5m in Ship2 :/

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

^Ice is currently not in scratch, hence the price tag of 5m in Ship2 :/

Ah alright, thanks. I have yet to add chrome to putty so I could actually check SEGA's websites (that is if that's how it works anyway).

[Fusionxglave]

It's kind of dumb how long it takes to kill the Rockbears and De Malmoths if you don't have multiple FOs in the group, as they're the only ones who can really get at their weak points with any degree of consistency with how much they move around.

I could not agree more. Those monster move like every .10 seconds and do 3 attacks and after that they do an all out attack. (repeat process)

I either have to stay up in the air and follow them or try not to get knocked down every second which is almost impossible with so much mobs using the stun ray.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Shinamori]

You can't find a damn party anymore. Everyone's doing Anga' hunts.

[rashoood]

ok anyone cares to explain those anga locked parties? collect 150 points then kill anga?

[TaigaUC]

Ah alright, thanks. I have yet to add chrome to putty so I could actually check SEGA's websites (that is if that's how it works anyway).

For websites, these sometimes work:
http://www.japanweb.info/
http://www.ejapan.eu/blue/

[Achelousaurus]

ok anyone cares to explain those anga locked parties? collect 150 points then kill anga?
And is there a way to join these without knowing them personally?
Last time someone mentioned this it sounded like anyone that knows what the purpose is and knows the pass can join.

[Xaeris]

You can't find a damn party anymore. Everyone's doing Anga' hunts.

That was my experience tonight. I find the Anga hunt boring (and I already have a lukewarm sentiment for UQs) but it looks like this method is on its way to becoming meta. So disappointed.

[Misaki Ki]

It's also nothing like SHAQ, because AQs drop affixes so you can make monetary progress while you play, while UQ drops absolutely nothing, except maybe one or two excubes every 30 minutes.

I know they play different, and UQ is often unproductive, but it certainly feels the same to me.

[spoiler-box]
Ultimate:
http://i.imgur.com/JLr2jjp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OoXYO23.jpg
[/spoiler-box]

[rashoood]

the pass is usually あんが (Anga) and i do join them lol but i really not sure if its 150 points then kill anga :p

[Magicks]

I'm not entirely sure what's the point of having password protected UQs in the first place unless you had 12 people in the first place. You're clearing the quest anyway, and from what I've played with the parties are usually decent enough that they can clear at a decent pace, why not just leave it un-protected?

[rashoood]

to me it looks like the pass is only there to make you read the description before joining the room. Which is (not entirely sure) get certain points before killing anga. usually Anga appears first thing when enter with those parties making it nice

Only if he does drop something though T_T

[Bellion]

You need to make locked parties in order to find different maps, which is probably the most important reason. The description on how things should go is another reason.

150 points from mobs only. If there are emergency codes, mob killing will continue past 150.
With a majority of players doing this in at least the first couple of Ultimate blocks, it's either follow or bust now.

[Shinamori]

Which sucks because I want Yami.

[Xaelouse]

You need to make locked parties in order to find different maps, which is probably the most important reason. The description on how things should go is another reason.

150 points from mobs only. If there are emergency codes, mob killing will continue past 150.
With a majority of players doing this in at least the first couple of Ultimate blocks, it's either follow or bust now.

Makes you wonder how they're gonna handle the next upcoming UQs.
Throw a 13* pinata in there and the maps will follow the same fate

[Rakurai]

Which sucks because I want Yami.

Most groups will stop to kill any rare bosses that show up, as well.

The drop rate of Yamigarasu from the rare Diabol Grissith is way higher then it is from the normal version, so that's probably for the better as far as conserving drop boosters goes.

[Z-0]

Regardless of what you want, it's really SEGA's fault for implementing the drop tables as they are, rather than what the players do.

The 13*s blow absolutely every other weapon out of the water, especially at 10603, so it makes perfect sense why people are focusing on hunting solely Anga, as it's the only thing really worth hunting.

[rashoood]

about the drops, is it true that lets say if I go as braver, i will have a better chance at getting the 13* katana? I mean is the class specific drop boost real? :P

[Bellion]

Random is random, but you know, double the chance for a rare which your main class may use.

I pretty much made all of my chars play Braverduring super Elder boost weeks in order to get my Orochi to 50%! So, I guess it works!

[Achelousaurus]

Regardless of what you want, it's really SEGA's fault for implementing the drop tables as they are, rather than what the players do.

The 13*s blow absolutely every other weapon out of the water, especially at 10603, so it makes perfect sense why people are focusing on hunting solely Anga, as it's the only thing really worth hunting.
Well, and Chainsawd.
Considering the potential it's damn good even with 13* around.

[Stealthcmc1974]

As much as I want a 13*, I just wish there were better weapon camos out there to cover them up. Not a fan of the UQ appearance when it classes with the way my character looks. But I'm picky like that. :wacko:

[Rakurai]

I noticed that Anga Fandarge's bits will now randomly have a red/yellow/blue aura on them, and you apparently get extra drops if you break those particular bits.

I've only gotten garbage 10* units, but until any official confirmation is given that they don't increase the 13* drop rate, I'm breaking them just in case they do.

[Evangelion X.XX]

^I've noticed a few days ago in UQ, that the MPA will now try to break all the bits whereas before, it may or may not try to do so.

When all of the bits are broken, I do notice that I get better drops instead of a gold ring.

[Rakurai]

It really doesn't take that long to break them, considering it takes around 30 seconds of Grants spamming from me alone to get rid of one.

A coordinated effort could probably wipe out all of them in less then a minute.

[Achelousaurus]

It's really damn hard for melee though, especially with lockon.
Ontop of the general enemy clusterfuck cause of the mobs Anga spawns you also have the fast rotating bits and keeping track of one is not easy.

Or my goddamn pad is broken again cause the ONE AND FUCKING ONLY PAD IN EXISTENCE I CAN USE is from a really damn bad brand and the lowest shit quality ever.

[Evangelion X.XX]

Breaking the bits isn't that difficult for Hunter: just use fully charged Rising Edge -----> Over End (with Fury Gear Boost, ofc); be careful not to mega-downward-slash the red-bottom-body though, if you want to break all the bits.

I tried breaking the bits with Braver but it's quite a pain; generally the bits are too high or that Braver doesn't do enough damage before the bits move elsewhere.

Haven't tried fighter in UQ, but I can imagine it spamming Symphonic Drive.

Never got into Dual Blades for bouncer (rainbow weapon pallete) so no clue here.

[Macman]

Bits only drop 10* elemental units from what I've seen. Not worth it.

[sol_trigger]

you only need to break the horn to unlock katana drop then kill it, not worth breaking its balls

[Flaoc]

you only need to break the horn to unlock katana drop then kill it, not worth breaking its balls

sorry couldnt resist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NewJr7mIrT0&hd=1

[Rakurai]

Bits only drop 10* elemental units from what I've seen. Not worth it.

Considering how rare 13* drops are, we can't really know whether or not they're influencing the rates on them until the official guide for Episode 3 comes out.

Until then, I think it's probably best to break them.

[LordKaiser]

5 10* Units = 30 grinders or 1 photon orb just saying.

[Macman]

Too bad all that matters now are lambda grinders. :wacko:
Photon Spheres are not in short supply either.

[Xaeris]

In today's patch notes:

"Toned down the shaking of the screen with Diabo and its rare counterpart."

Jesus Christ, thank you Sega.

[Achelousaurus]

It's really annoying how melee unfriendly the bosses are again.
Sega really hates melee.
Doesn't help much if stuff is less resistant to melee but still so hard to reach that other classes kill it far more easily.

[Rakurai]

Silly thing is, you don't even have a damage penalty on techs as long as you're using a weak element, which is what you should be doing in the first place.

[Evangelion X.XX]

Just had my first experience of fighting 2 corrupted rockbears and 2 corrupted mammoths in a narrow space with tons of mobs. Boy oh boy was it fun, never seen so many Arks' deaths before.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I've managed to confirm sakura end does drop from something in there (no item translation patch).

Just that disk droprates are abysmal as all hell as we all should know about now. Don't know if kanran is there too.

I still have yet to get 17 of either PA after two and a half weeks now.

I've managed to get hatou, shunka, and kazan 17 all before the most basic katana PAs eveyone used when braver was new.

Still missing that 10% sakura end damage sucks.

They seriously need to patch disk droprates in there. Dealing with ult's lack of drops from anything but bosses would be tolerable if the trash dropped disks for your class far more often, or when disks do drop, they're guaranteed to be lvl17 (getting mighty tired of seeing lvls11-15 drop in fking ult when I see like 4 disk drops a run on average)

[Maenara]

Just had my first experience of fighting 2 corrupted rockbears and 2 corrupted mammoths in a narrow space with tons of mobs. Boy oh boy was it fun, never seen so many Arks' deaths before.

How does that compare to a Bayribbles + 2 Plosiorgles + Diabo Igrythis?
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/oo2NYkm.png[/spoiler-box]

First there was 2 Plosiorgles + Anga Fundarge. Killing Anga resulted in a Diabo Igythis + Bayribbles. Killing the Diabo spawned a second Diabo, and killing that Diabo spawned an Anga Fundarge. It was chaos.

[Ordy]

You know what would be great in ULT? If people could stop pulling side mob trains in boss fights, or even worse a god damn malmoth.

This isn't world of fucking warcraft or some shit, we have no strong CC or real tanks so it just unnecessarily prolongs the boss kill.

[Evangelion X.XX]

@Maenara:

Oh man, sounds like fun... dunno how many moons you guys must've used...

[Netro Shine]

You know what would be great in ULT? If people could stop pulling side mob trains in boss fights, or even worse a god damn malmoth.

This isn't world of fucking warcraft or some shit, we have no strong CC or real tanks so it just unnecessarily prolongs the boss kill.
I'm that tank! Well, maybe not an actual tank, but I do have War Cry and it's extremely useful in Ultimate. Quite frequently, I've been using War Cry to pull mobs, then just solo the group while the other players in the MPA kill the bosses. Takes the stress off of the rest of the group by removing a single player from the equation. It's a lot cleaner than everybody trying to fight everything in a giant mob, and if I'm good about my fighting, I can kill all of the mob in the same time it takes everybody else to take down the boss. More so if I have a buddy along that packs Gibarta or something.

Alternatively, you can split crowds between two groups, segregate bosses, or centralize enemy crowds all with good application of War Cry alone. Depending on the circumstances, Zondeel is still useful at times though enemies gain resistance to its effect quite frequently, and freezing enemies is still a very powerful method of CC (Gibarta spam isn't the fastest, but it's an effective way to slowly chew through enemy groups and you'll freeze them with decent frequency). We do have powerful CC in the game, but you need to be acutely aware of when is the best time to utilize it. War Cry is powerful, but its long range can mean when you try to pull an enemy group, you grab bosses as well. In this case, Showtime has a short range, and will allow a person classing Gunner to keep the boss away from the mob group (I run Gunner with a buddy that always runs Hunter, so we use this tactic a lot as well).

[LordKaiser]

Fighting 5 bosses at once... I don't know what they are doing tbh. You can either run together ignoring mobs and spawning them 1 by one or kill mobs and spawn them but it seems that someone went alone to spawn bosses and lure them back to the party...

It was fun but at the same time it was stupid.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/3tpvBC6.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[LonelyGaruga]

I'm that tank! Well, maybe not an actual tank, but I do have War Cry and it's extremely useful in Ultimate. Quite frequently, I've been using War Cry to pull mobs, then just solo the group while the other players in the MPA kill the bosses. Takes the stress off of the rest of the group by removing a single player from the equation. It's a lot cleaner than everybody trying to fight everything in a giant mob, and if I'm good about my fighting, I can kill all of the mob in the same time it takes everybody else to take down the boss.

Meanwhile a non-tank kills the mobs before the boss is down and can help out with that too.

Lol tanks.

[Rakurai]

Having someone who keep aggro on a boss is nice, since I almost always pull aggro from Il Barta spam, and I can hardly even attack with them chasing me around unless I have a tree handy.

[Netro Shine]

Meanwhile a non-tank kills the mobs before the boss is down and can help out with that too.

Lol tanks.
Except I did say I'm not a tank? I guess I should elaborate and say I'm not referring to a damage mitigation build. The only tanking Skill here happens to be War Cry, since, you know, you grab enemy aggression, then deal with them. Regardless of what other Skills you happen to have, the moment you fire off War Cry, you've taken it upon yourself to assume the role of tank in group play. The only thing that constitutes a tank in this game realistically is aggro control (War Cry and Showtime). Let me point you to the Wikipedia article on tanking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_(gaming)) since you seem to be confused.

I run a dodge tank. I grab enemy aggression, then systematically strike quick and dodge to maintain aggression and work down my enemy's HP. My friend runs a drain tank where he grabs enemy aggression, then proceeds to beat them senseless with his Elder Pain until either he or they die. Note that these are both full DPS tank designs.

Honestly, if somebody's going to field a tank and intelligently split enemy groups with aggro control, I'm not going to complain. Even if they're slow to kill it's about a thousand times better than a chaotic battlefield where my mates are going down left and right because everything is attacking from every direction all the time. I know you have different priorities, but I'd rather have a strong controller before I have strong DPS.

[Achelousaurus]

I have to find another place to use up remaining booster time after an eq. Is there an alternative besides SHAQS?

I hate ult so much, it's always a huge clusterfuck, I have 0 fun. But I do want Chainsword and some 13* weapons >_>

Actually, never mind 12* weapons, can't be too long before we get 12* passes and I have a passable 12* already.

Ult bosses, the only ones dropping stuff worth mentioning (besides the darkers, what do they drop actually? anyone got a full drop chart for 12* and 13* in ult?) are always a huge problem for me.

It's mostly the mobs they spawn, that is some of the worst game design ever (has never been good before ult either).

Every single ult boss fight turns into a gigantic clusterfuck for me where I can barely see anything and only play by remembering the timing, I might as well close my eyes.

Also, the game actually drops some animations when the things to animate get too much.
Often enough I have looked closely for a JA circle and there simply was none after a PA or normal attack (Katana). And there are always small areas around me where I would have definitely seen it.

PS: After maxing fury and JA bonus, hunter has very little to boost dps. You can only get lots of satk which costs like 3 times as much as fury skills and is quite secondary.

[LonelyGaruga]

Except I did say I'm not a tank? I guess I should elaborate and say I'm not referring to a damage mitigation build. The only tanking Skill here happens to be War Cry, since, you know, you grab enemy aggression, then deal with them. Regardless of what other Skills you happen to have, the moment you fire off War Cry, you've taken it upon yourself to assume the role of tank in group play. The only thing that constitutes a tank in this game realistically is aggro control (War Cry and Showtime). Let me point you to the Wikipedia article on tanking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_(gaming)) since you seem to be confused.

I run a dodge tank. I grab enemy aggression, then systematically strike quick and dodge to maintain aggression and work down my enemy's HP. My friend runs a drain tank where he grabs enemy aggression, then proceeds to beat them senseless with his Elder Pain until either he or they die. Note that these are both full DPS tank designs.

Honestly, if somebody's going to field a tank and intelligently split enemy groups with aggro control, I'm not going to complain. Even if they're slow to kill it's about a thousand times better than a chaotic battlefield where my mates are going down left and right because everything is attacking from every direction all the time. I know you have different priorities, but I'd rather have a strong controller before I have strong DPS.


A tank (also known as a meat shield) is a style of character in gaming, often associated with a character class. A common convention in real-time strategy games, role-playing games, Fighting Games and MUDs, tanks redirect enemy attacks or attention toward themselves in order to protect other characters or units. Since this role often requires them to suffer large amounts of damage, they rely on large amounts of vitality or armor, healing by other party members, evasiveness and misdirection, or self regeneration.


"Tanking" occurs when the unit is intended to be the one taking damage (typically by being dangerous or detrimental, or using a game mechanic that forces it to be targeted), and secondly, to ensure that they can survive this damage through sheer health points or mitigation.

In group play found in many role-playing games, the role of the tank is to protect players that are low-armor or low-health classes. The role of a tank is typically to survive an oncoming attack, and then ensure that they are the target of the incoming attack. It then falls upon the healer (in large scale play, often specifically assigned to the role, with spells specializing with high healing output over one or two targets) to restore the tank's health so he does not die and allow him or her to take the next attack.

In MMOs, there is typically a mechanic that tanks rely on known as enmity, "aggro", or "threat", which is generated from damage and taunts. This makes monsters attack the tank. However, when fighting other players tanks will attempt to interrupt spell casters and apply debuffs, making them a high priority target for damage (as they are nullifying or mitigating the potential of the opposing team). Tanks are typically central to group play, and a large amount of responsibility is placed on the tank.[2] Often a tank's death will cause the monsters to overrun the party as they cannot cope with the magnitude of incoming damage.

None of the bolded is applicable to PSO2. Not impressed. Most of this description is impossible to apply to PSO2. Note that not a single time do action RPGs get mentioned. This article is entirely geared toward traditional MMO RPG play. If tanking was solely grabbing enemy attention, every single character in the game can tank.

Swiftly killing enemies is the exact same thing as having strong control btw. There's nothing more controlled than a dead enemy, and doing that faster is better control. Better DPS = better control. A non-tank is exactly as good at using War Cry, and possesses better mob control than a tank. If they're slow to kill, it's a problem because that means they suck. They should be able to control the mobs and wipe them out quickly. Settling for mediocrity just because they get one job done is not how team play is done.

[Netro Shine]

PSO2 is classified as an MMO both by SEGA's US site (http://www.pso2.com/us/html/about.html) and by the Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantasy_Star_Online_2). Looking at lists of games by genre, you'll also see that PSO2 does not appear on a list of Action RPGs (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Action_role-playing_video_games&pagefrom=Jikandia%3A+The+Timeless+Land#mw-pages) while previous Phantasy Star games do; instead, PSO2 is on the list of MMOs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_games).


Swiftly killing enemies is the exact same thing as having strong control btw.
You're correct in that swiftly killing enemies is a method of control. But what about enemies that you can't kill in five seconds or less? A good go to example would be Dark Vibrace or Vibrace Yuga. These are enemies that are built to absorb incoming damage so other mobs have a chance to get in at your bases. You're not going to kill them quickly, so what's your next best option? Stun them. Photon Turrets inflict Confusion which immobilizes them for a short period of time, breaking their legs immobilizes them, and panic procs immobilize them for short periods of time. A single Force can permastun Vibrace if they get in a long string of panic procs. During this time, Vibrace can't attack, can't throw turd bombs at your bases, can't move, which means everyone else with powerful attacks can get in whatever their best combination all without worry of retaliation. Certainly a lot stronger method of control than trying to murder it quickly. Some 95% of the game can be straight skunked with raw DPS, this is a fact. There are niche moments like Vibrace where other forms of CC become exceptionally more compelling. Any time you can't murder an enemy or enemy group in a short period of time, War Cry is exceptionally useful for keeping those enemies hanging around so you can hit them a lot more. If you're so good that you can take on 12 players worth of mobs and not die, there's no reason you shouldn't use War Cry all the time.


If tanking was solely grabbing enemy attention, every single character in the game can tank.
This is exactly the point. Tanking is solely the act of grabbing enemy attention. This means that if you use War Cry, you're in that slot called tank. Let me guide you over to tvtroupes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AnAdventurerIsYou) for a quick commentary on tanks. I'll pull out the one point that's completely relevant just for you.


The Tank: Unless your party can kill everything in sight in one hit, you are going to need someone to soak up the damage those pesky monsters do. To make sure he's the target of all incoming pain, the Tank has the ability to "taunt" enemies into attacking him and ignoring the party members actually hurting them.

Before MMORPGs introduced the aggro system, the Tank was simply the class with the strongest armor and most Hit Points. These types usually stood at the front of the party in order to ensure they absorbed most of the damage, and often had high damage capability of their own, being more Mighty Glacier than pure Meat Shield. Nowadays, this archetype is often conflated with the "Melee DPS" class, and straddles the line between Tank and DPS.
Oh? The example of a tank these days has been integrated with "Melee DPS"? If I'm not mistaken, Hunter is the general Melee DPS class, and they have a very specific Skill for acquiring enemy attention. Taking and utilizing War Cry makes you a modern tank. Surviving is up to the individual. I can also use Gunners as an example. What is the main concept of Gunner? Don't get hit. They get quite a few bonuses for not getting hit. Showtime is their taunt, but notice that it has a smaller range than War Cry. Why would the class that avoids getting hit have a taunt? So they can dodge tank. Find boss, use Showtime, profit. Keeping enemy attention on you allows you to deal more damage, but more importantly, it allows your buddies to strike without fear of retaliation which, in turn, generates more damage.

In short, the type of tank you keep referring to is archaic. Get with the times, get down with War Cry, help yourself, help your buddies, be the tank.

[Z-0]

Bibras is a bad example. You murder it quickly by stunning it by its leg and having melee players attack its exposed back, which has a 4x modifier to melee attacks or something. This is done primarily by pure DPS, since you need DPS to "break" the leg first.

You don't do whatever you said, that's slow and not effective.

[Netro Shine]

Photon Turrets inflict Confusion which immobilizes them for a short period of time, breaking their legs immobilizes them, and panic procs immobilize them for short periods of time.


Bibras is a bad example. You murder it quickly by stunning it by its leg and having melee players attack its exposed back, which has a 4x modifier to melee attacks or something. This is done primarily by pure DPS, since you need DPS to "break" the leg first.

You literally said exactly what I said. Break the leg, and using a Photon Turret doesn't require a high DPS build. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Photon Turrets dish out more damage in more of a hurry than most people. Hop in a photon turret and break the leg, or if you happen to fire across its face, it will likely end up afflicted by panic. This is accomplished by tools you have available, not by your build.

[LonelyGaruga]

A good TD run usually doesn't even have Photon Turrets around. TD3, you should be piloting A.I.S. around Vibras Yuga.

Not really enthused about touching that diseased post prior, it's pretty clear you and the other people you generally play with are low tier trash that can't even quad dip TD1. You can keep pulling mobs around so your incompetent buddies don't get slaughtered by them, I and the other players I play with will be annihilating them too quickly for War Cry to do much good in the first place.

[Selphea]

You can still quad dip TD1 XH? :O

[LonelyGaruga]

I meant SH. You could swap in TD2 instead of TD1 for a similar idea.

[Z-0]

Yes, TD1 XH can be 4-run, but it needs a very powerful team. It's been done countless times already.

Also, War Cry is still great in TD, but only at level 1. Using it as Goldrahdas are falling will cause them to not run. Can also use it incase you lose enemies by accident. Only real use for it -- it's not really a tanking tool as it's supposed to be.

[HeyItsTHK]

I have to find another place to use up remaining booster time after an eq. Is there an alternative besides SHAQS?

I hate ult so much, it's always a huge clusterfuck, I have 0 fun. But I do want Chainsword and some 13* weapons >_>

Actually, never mind 12* weapons, can't be too long before we get 12* passes and I have a passable 12* already.

Ult bosses, the only ones dropping stuff worth mentioning (besides the darkers, what do they drop actually? anyone got a full drop chart for 12* and 13* in ult?) are always a huge problem for me.

It's mostly the mobs they spawn, that is some of the worst game design ever (has never been good before ult either).

Every single ult boss fight turns into a gigantic clusterfuck for me where I can barely see anything and only play by remembering the timing, I might as well close my eyes.

Also, the game actually drops some animations when the things to animate get too much.
Often enough I have looked closely for a JA circle and there simply was none after a PA or normal attack (Katana). And there are always small areas around me where I would have definitely seen it.

PS: After maxing fury and JA bonus, hunter has very little to boost dps. You can only get lots of satk which costs like 3 times as much as fury skills and is quite secondary.

Being in cross bursts with many forces has trained me in the ways of "wow I can't see shit" especially when the pp restoring pb is chained and it's just a giant blue circle of BRIGHT. You get used to it.

I enjoy the chaos of Ult. I love chaotic things in general though. Thus I'm very saddened they nerfed Code Explosion in Coming Darkness. Now I can do that EQ in my sleep.


You can still quad dip TD1 XH? :O

You can but you need the entire group to be on point and probably as min maxy top tier as possible.

[Selphea]

Closest I've found is this one which is a 2-person pug at 10mins which would be barely short of a quad dip, and seems to be because the rest of the pug let some mobs through. Found another one at 12 mins but the Fo/Te was a Zondeel bot with 0 DPS for most of it

[spoiler-box]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akvLzKI---M[/spoiler-box]

Doesn't seem to be about min maxing as much as it is about stacking as many Fire/Light Fo/Tes and Rangers as possible. Looks like I'll need to make a TATK set T_T.

[Z-0]

You still need to be insanely powerful to do it, though. Goldrahdas have roughly 260K HP or so, and that's unboosted. Bibras has 11million HP unboosted, to give another figure.

And well, it's mostly about catching things at the spawn points and killing them before they're able to move away. This includes Forces, Bravers, Bouncers and Rangers optimally. Forces are your Zondeels (of course), Bravers are your main powers on those Zondeels (since Hatou is still stronger than Gifoie), Bouncers are your main boss killers (since they have the highest single target DPS in the game) and Rangers are well... WB slaves (lol), although they are definitely extremely helpful on Zondeels as well with Satellite Cannon. Main problem with Satellite Cannon is that it cannot react quickly like a Braver can (so it's only really useful at the start of a wave, with some exceptions), and Ranger lacks Combat, hencewhy you should really only be taking one for the necessary WB.

That 10 minute PUG loses time when it stands at the towers for the last three waves. It is far faster to catch everything at its spawn point and kill them there; a proper party can do it fine. I had no problems when I played in a JP XH TD MPA and we were 1 TeFo, 2 FoTe and 1 FiBo on right lane. Unfortunately left and middle lanes kept moving around too much and letting things through, so we didn't manage 4 runs (timed out wave 5, if I remember correctly).

Sidenote, if Ship 1 PUGs are really like that consistently, moving to Ship 1 seems really tempting.

edit: Enemy HPs can be found on this site (http://lulls32moen.web.fc2.com/). This (http://lulls32moen.web.fc2.com/memo.html) is the page for TD.

[LordKaiser]

If Fodou didn't consumed so much PP and enemies in Ultimate didn't had resistance to stun then Braver would be a good controller...

[HeyItsTHK]

Closest I've found is this one which is a 2-person pug at 10mins which would be barely short of a quad dip, and seems to be because the rest of the pug let some mobs through. Found another one at 12 mins but the Fo/Te was a Zondeel bot with 0 DPS for most of it

[spoiler-box]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akvLzKI---M[/spoiler-box]

Doesn't seem to be about min maxing as much as it is about stacking as many Fire/Light Fo/Tes and Rangers as possible. Looks like I'll need to make a TATK set T_T.

You're gonna need damage (and of course WBs) cause of the ton of HP Golrahdas have (my guess is around 300k hp) and the big bad beetle has 10 million HP easy. and more with HP boosts.

[Selphea]

Ranger has Cosmos Breaker for Zondeel and Homing Emission for Vibrace butt too. In fact I'm pretty sure Homing Emission is higher DPS than PBF on Vibrace butt once Standing Snipe kicks in.

260k during a Zondeel, split between 3 players doesn't seem too hard to reach. Any decent mid-end geared build with the fundamentals - maxed Stances/Mastery/Hit Advance, +10 50% 11*+ weapon or crafted Negative Hunter and +60 affixes and set bonus should be able to do it. Same with a ~800k WB burn per player during Vibrace's stagger. Doesn't seem like you need to min-max, just... not be Bad™.

[LonelyGaruga]

Main thing about Vibras' egg sack is that it takes 3x damage from striking attacks and 2x from everything else, so PBF, Hatou, even wand melee does huge damage (easy 30K per hit with wands).

Also, keep in mind, HP boosts. 20-60% more HP means you actually need considerably more damage output to handle those boosted waves.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

If Fodou didn't consumed so much PP and enemies in Ultimate didn't had resistance to stun then Braver would be a good controller...

Fudou is still crap compared to kanran 95% of the time. Anything that can be stunned in ult flinches to attacks that cause hitstun, and the stun will break. Regardless of ult enemies sometimes having the stun immune infection, the way stuns are just make them not very useful.

Fudou only shines against enemies that can be stunned, but can't be hitstunned/flinch, such as gilnas/natch leaving them to sit in the full stun while getting beat on.

[Selphea]

Ah it's a weak point multiplier difference. Then yea PBF might be highest there.

[Z-0]

260K during a Zondeel isn't hard, but you can't Zondeel everything in one Zondeel. Damage will always be spread. 260K instantly is not that easy.

[Achelousaurus]

Fudou is still crap compared to kanran 95% of the time. Anything that can be stunned in ult flinches to attacks that cause hitstun, and the stun will break. Regardless of ult enemies sometimes having the stun immune infection, the way stuns are just make them not very useful.

Fudou only shines against enemies that can be stunned, but can't be hitstunned/flinch, such as gilnas/natch leaving them to sit in the full stun while getting beat on.
The advantage of Fudou is speed though. Charging is a liability in ult. Not saying Fudou is great or anything, I tried it briefly and found it really lacking but it's not 100% pointless.

[LonelyGaruga]

Braver charge times are 0.5s. What are you doing that you can't pull that off? Kanran has way more range than Fudou too, and with how many mobs are present in UQs, do you really want to hit less enemies than you could?

[Achelousaurus]

0.5 seconds is a LOT in ult without a premade mpa or even a decent 4 people party.