What's your favorite ultimate quest boss?

[Maenara]

I'd have to say that mine is Anga Fundarge since it doesn't have year-long hints about what its next attack is going to be.

[Selphea]

I dunno I just Aerial Shooting into the air and spam SRJA Elder Rebellion on all of them all day long. And somehow I still get TMGs resisted on Anga ._.

The air weapons like Daggers, TMGs, Dual Blades, Jet Boots etc seem to commonly get resisted from what I've seen. Along with Rifle because SatCan.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

None. The fact that I can't kill them in 5 seconds makes my E-peen shrivel up.

[Xaeris]

Bayari. I get a kick out of its luchador moves.

[final_attack]

Anga ...... not too hard, not too easy ..... kinda friendly for melee-based PA (SatAim).

[Walkure]

Not sure whether I like Anga or Diabo more. Laser rave: the boss or bird dragon that spits around fire pillars everywhere. Luchador rockbear's also cool.

Plosio runs around too much; he can fuck off!!

None. The fact that I can't kill them in 5 seconds makes my E-peen shrivel up.
Ha, my E-peen gets engorged when I see this: http://i.imgur.com/RoTtSFz.png

[Dnd]

This happened when I was on my Fi/Bo and I didnt think to take any other weapons aside my boots, I got a real kick from this but then the realisation I was useless for about 5 minutes kicked in and i cryed.
http://imageshack.com/a/img538/4218/YtWH9t.jpg

I think anga is my fav boss just because it isnt completely the same everytime you fight it, which pso2 needs desperately.....

[Walkure]

Even if all your equipped weapons are resisted, you can kill the regular enemies that are probably wrecking havoc anyways.

I just love seeing Fighter weapons pop up as the top target.

Seeing the resistance pop up Twin Dagger? Hell yes!
Seeing the resistance then pop up as Knuckles? Hell yeah!!! I don't even care if I just switched from TD to DS and just helped clean up mobs after the first resistance.

[isCasted]

Definitely Anga. Unlike any other bosses it only has one cheap attack that even became non-existant after evolution (claws), and you can actually use slow and powerful moves (like Holding Current) against it.

[Xaelouse]

Diabo's fire pillars gives him complete control over the field and can actually corner and let trash mobs have their way with you. Also has good juggle combos. Definitely need more bosses like him.

[GoldGenII]

Master of the Accursed Hurricane Body Slams: Bayaribbles gets my vote. Makes me want Hilde's back more ¦c

Diabo learn how to set the field on fiyaaaa. Haven't you seen Sonic 3

[Selphea]

Okay I'm voting Anga just because it gave me this:

[SPOILER-BOX]
First resist: TMGs
http://i.imgur.com/jv0JpeP.jpg

Second resist: Dual Blades
http://i.imgur.com/xThIWYT.jpg
[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Also has good juggle combos.


Definitely need more bosses like him.

Um... no... we need less juggle BS actually.


I've come to expect katana resist every time i beat on anga. I'd be more worried about what kind of group I have if I'm causing bow resist after that.

[Rakurai]

Anga Fandarge.

Doesn't have any cheap stagger/juggle nonsense, deals a reasonable amount of damage, and it isn't aggressive to the point where certain weapon types are hard pressed to do anything to it all if they have aggro on it.

It feel fair, but difficult, whereas I never feel like I actually deserve any of deaths I receive against the other three bosses due to how easily they can lock you down with a series of attacks at times.

[sol_trigger]

which pso2 needs desperately.....

PSO2 doesnt need hardcore shits :-?

[Achelousaurus]

Anga Fandarge.

Doesn't have any cheap stagger/juggle nonsense, deals a reasonable amount of damage, and it isn't aggressive to the point where certain weapon types are hard pressed to do anything to it all if they have aggro on it.

It feel fair, but difficult, whereas I never feel like I actually deserve any of deaths I receive against the other three bosses due to how easily they can lock you down with a series of attacks at times.
This.

Bayari is kinda ok cause he is so very predictable (once I had aggro the whole fight and countered every hit for 3 minutes straight), but still boring cause either you have aggro and have to counter / dodge or you don't and he practically runs away from you the whole time.

Plosiorgles is annoying cause he moves around too much (Bayari doesn't move nearly as far) and when you try to get close he spams fire shockwave or trunk swipe.

Diabo is by far the worst though, nothing but pure frustration.
He is also so big he is ALWAYS clipping into the environment which means hiding from sight (actually works when the screen is nothing but a huge clusterfuck of random rapidly moving models and lighting effects) and mostly, makes it extremely hard to break his parts, especially cause he usually spawns twice as many mobs as the other mobs.

[Rien]

I'm having a lot of trouble encountering Bayari's.

Any tips on meeting him more?

[wahahaha]

All of em

[infiniteeverlasting]

elitism in every post
don't even get me started.

[Maenara]

I'm having a lot of trouble encountering Bayari's.

Any tips on meeting him more?

Dunno. He really likes to spawn when you're fighting Diabo or Anga.

[LonelyGaruga]

This happened when I was on my Fi/Bo and I didnt think to take any other weapons aside my boots, I got a real kick from this but then the realisation I was useless for about 5 minutes kicked in and i cryed.
http://imageshack.com/a/img538/4218/YtWH9t.jpg

You can use techs when Jet Boots resistance comes up. Techs won't suffer resistance if they're used while a resisted weapon is equipped, the element itself is what has to be resisted.

More on topic, voted for Diabo, just because it looks, fights, and even has music that seems to take inspiration from MH. First time I could positively compare PSO2 with MH. Granted, the juggle combos need to go, but it's a good start.

[Bellion]

If a Wand gets resisted, then the whacks and ANY techs you cast with it suffer as well. The same applies for JBs.

My source is going to be leveling 70->75 from Anga hunting as JB Bo and Te Wand. Also, same for Extreme Quests.

My vote is on bears with their wrestling moves and shit.

[strikerhunter]

Bayaribbles because karate chop and kung F-U stance.

[Macman]

24 voters are just after shiny weapons.

Bayaribbles is the best. That helicopter belly slam cracks me up almost every time.

[PokeminMaster]

Anga Fundarge, I just like the concept of something so powerful existing without being a direct embodiment of the Profound Darkness... plus the fact that it's like a Darker Photon Blast and has some epic music

[LonelyGaruga]

If a Wand gets resisted, then the whacks and ANY techs you cast with it suffer as well. The same applies for JBs.

My source is going to be leveling 70->75 from Anga hunting as JB Bo and Te Wand. Also, same for Extreme Quests.

What.

That's a dumb handicap for tech weapons that can do things besides use techs. Oh well, my bad.

[Selphea]

You can still use techs by crafting a BO-equippable rod or talis, those should never get resisted :3


elitism in every post
don't even get me started.

That's a negative way to look at things. Part of it is also vindication or confirmation that a build works. Since there's no DPS meter in PSO2 and a lack of Ep3 boss rush videos that don't use WB/Chain Trigger/Banish/Vol for ~4 second kills it's very hard to tell whether a build works or not.

[TaigaUC]

None, because I don't find them fun to fight with. That seems to be the general shared sentiment amongst people I've spoken with.
Having too much HP doesn't make a fight more difficult or fun, either. Of course, it's better than bosses dying in 5 seconds.
There's a line to draw before it starts to get repetitive or boring.

I know nobody gives a damn what I think, but I personally still enjoy fighting Ragne one-on-one.
Going by that PSO2 beta, Ragne was the first boss created, and still feels to me like the most well thought-out, balanced and satisfying boss.

[Achelousaurus]

You can use techs when Jet Boots resistance comes up. Techs won't suffer resistance if they're used while a resisted weapon is equipped, the element itself is what has to be resisted.

More on topic, voted for Diabo, just because it looks, fights, and even has music that seems to take inspiration from MH. First time I could positively compare PSO2 with MH. Granted, the juggle combos need to go, but it's a good start.
Yeah, more of Sega's BS bias (or probably just pure idiocy cause they don't understand their own game's basics).
If bow or rifle or Katana or dagger or tmgs are resisted, that's it. You better have a backup weapon about as good as your main weapon.
Different PAs, different playstyle, possible requiring to sub a different class.

For forces that just means using a different tech with the exact same weapons they always use.

[LonelyGaruga]

Nah, Bellion pointed out this was wrong, if your weapon gets resisted any techs you use with it will also get resisted. Force doesn't get that issue admittedly, but switching element is generally a 44% loss in damage anyway, and they have to deal with tech resistance if it doesn't match the weakness (which it likely will not).

[Evangelion X.XX]

If I had to choose a boss from this list, then its Diabo; I like how aggressive he his, but I do agree that the fire pillars make for cheap juggle deaths though.

But more than the bosses on the list, I especially like the beefed up Gorongos; I think they're what makes UQ challenging/deadly/annoying particularly when there are like four of them rolling around during boss fights.

[wefwq]

Anga are the most tame boss on ultimate IMO, while the other may become one hell of wild ride.

Anga size and attack felt just right, even on resistance. Pretty much enjoying kill this stuff.

Diablo are too big for the map, especially if spawned on crapmped space, he's also moves a lot and fire pillar cause more lag than it should, also "pre-nerf" screen shaking are too much.

Bayaribbles are fine up until he decide to do wild air rolling non-stop, cutting entire MPA HP while being hard to get hit because he's in the air almost all the time.

Plosiorgles are the most annoying boss, especially if there's 2 or there's psycho garongos spinning around on the same place.

[Rien]

24 voters are just after shiny weapons.

Bayaribbles is the best. That helicopter belly slam cracks me up almost every time.

You realize Bayaribbles drops Chain Sword and Heavenly Punisher, right?

Y'know, the most desirable weapon for Hunter and Ranger respectively?

[Macman]

Yes, but everyone's creaming their pants over Anga's ugly never-drops. I hate that Bayaribbles seems to be the rarest boss to find in the endless sea of Diabos and Plosiorgles. I'm going to cry if I can't get my hands on a Salusu Punisher before the next UQ comes and kills off Naberius.

[Achelousaurus]

Nah, Bellion pointed out this was wrong, if your weapon gets resisted any techs you use with it will also get resisted. Force doesn't get that issue admittedly, but switching element is generally a 44% loss in damage anyway, and they have to deal with tech resistance if it doesn't match the weakness (which it likely will not).
But do casting weapons ever get resisted?
Aren't they exempt cause it's only elements for them?

44% is kinda big though.
How high is Anga's weapon resistance?

Anyway, resistance or not Anga is alright. for lockon the bits + mobs are still really annoying but unlike Diabo it's not something that makes it impossible to fight, just harder.


You realize Bayaribbles drops Chain Sword and Heavenly Punisher, right?

Y'know, the most desirable weapon for Hunter and Ranger respectively?
Didn't know about the HP. Lol at ult monkey bear thing dropping HP again.
Luckily we don't have to be Bluehell for that.
But I always hope for Chainsawd from Bayaribbles.

Does he have any breakable parts?
Plosiorgles only has breakable horns or?

[LonelyGaruga]

You realize Bayaribbles drops Chain Sword and Heavenly Punisher, right?

Y'know, the most desirable weapon for Hunter and Ranger respectively?

Chain Sword's only useful for life drain and consists of 1/3rd of Hunter's weapon array. Heaven's Punisher or whatever its name really is gets outclassed by 13*s. 13*s are the absolute best in damage output as long as you can equip them. They're much more of a priority.

Keep in mind, even at empty PB gauge, the potential adds 6% damage, in addition to already having around 22% more ATK than the previous best weapon (if not more depending on weapon category) before applying element.


But do casting weapons ever get resisted?
Aren't they exempt cause it's only elements for them?

44% is kinda big though.
How high is Anga's weapon resistance?

Rods and talises don't get resisted because you don't actually hit with the rod/talis, but wands and jet boots can if the wand melee/PAs are top damage output. If, through tech usage, you get Anga's resist priority, it will resist the element you used, and not the weapon itself, regardless of what you use.

44% on top of UQ's standard non-weakness resistances (15% apparently), btw. Anga's resistances are 80% according to swiki.

[Rien]

Heaven's Punisher or whatever its name really is gets outclassed by 13*s. 13*s are the absolute best in damage output as long as you can equip them. They're much more of a priority.

Keep in mind, even at empty PB gauge, the potential adds 6% damage, in addition to already having around 22% more ATK than the previous best weapon (if not more depending on weapon category) before applying element.


It's a Satcan latent.

Hitting mobs also drops lasers from the sky.

This is literally THE rifle for me.

[LonelyGaruga]

So people hunt 12*s for aesthetic values, and that makes HP the most desirable Ranger weapon?

Crazy.

Granted, that is unique.

[Achelousaurus]

Actually, the weapon resist is MASSIVE.
was hitting for 300 on Anga bits with a normal attack. at 2252 s-atk with Attack Advance on braver. That should have been ~2100, maybe a little less if Anga has high def in general.
And I haven't checked cause I barely do any ult, but aren't the bits weakspots?

Either way, this is deep into the realm of failed last xq stage and now you better use a different weapon.
FAR worse than not being able to use Element Convert and Element Weak Hit.

I cannot fight Anga as a braver until this resistance is gone.
Exactly as I predicted.

Anyway, some of the 12* are good. Chainsawd definitely because hp drain is very good on a weapon as slow as sword and the only other sword with this potential has quite low atk.

12* rifle with SC boost is hardly a bad thing. Sure 13* may be better but not killing Bayaribbles when he appears is silly, unless your mpa is so bad you shouldn't continue anyway and move to another one.

And when 12* passes come, you have a nice 12* to sell. Gonna be mad cash, I tell you.
I just hope it's not something absurd like 50 mil for blank 12*.

[Maenara]

Weapon drops are kind of irrelevant to this thread.

[Walkure]

Either way, this is deep into the realm of failed last xq stage and now you better use a different weapon.
FAR worse than not being able to use Element Convert and Element Weak Hit.

I cannot fight Anga as a braver until this resistance is gone.
Exactly as I predicted.
To clarify this a bit incase it's unclear:

44% on top of UQ's standard non-weakness resistances (15% apparently), btw. Anga's resistances are 80% according to swiki.
80% resistance is -80% damage with said weapon, in other words cutting your damage to a fifth. Thankfully melees almost always have good options from their subclasses!

If Anga can just outright resist Light in addition to other elements naturally then that sucks pretty bad for casters. A caster-heavy party full of Ice/Light mastery builds could very well shut themselves out of all their elemental masteries.

[Searaphim]

Anga Fandarge, the music is awesome.

[LonelyGaruga]

Actually, the weapon resist is MASSIVE.
was hitting for 300 on Anga bits with a normal attack. at 2252 s-atk with Attack Advance on braver. That should have been ~2100, maybe a little less if Anga has high def in general.
And I haven't checked cause I barely do any ult, but aren't the bits weakspots?

Either way, this is deep into the realm of failed last xq stage and now you better use a different weapon.
FAR worse than not being able to use Element Convert and Element Weak Hit.

I cannot fight Anga as a braver until this resistance is gone.
Exactly as I predicted.

Anyway, some of the 12* are good. Chainsawd definitely because hp drain is very good on a weapon as slow as sword and the only other sword with this potential has quite low atk.

12* rifle with SC boost is hardly a bad thing. Sure 13* may be better but not killing Bayaribbles when he appears is silly, unless your mpa is so bad you shouldn't continue anyway and move to another one.

And when 12* passes come, you have a nice 12* to sell. Gonna be mad cash, I tell you.
I just hope it's not something absurd like 50 mil for blank 12*.

I said Anga's resistance is 80%. That means -80% damage. You do 1/5th of what you should. If you're doing 300 damage, you would have done 1500. That's pretty pathetic, by the way, hope that was a normal or Kanran.

No subclass weapons or gunslash?

Scrub. Every player has access to 4+ different weapon types by class design. Anga's resistances should never prevent you from doing damage if you bothered to equip and learn how to play your class properly. You don't even belong in UQs if you have no backup weapons.

I wasn't even counting Element Conversion earlier, that's another 12.5% loss (15% for 13*s) in damage if a Force somehow didn't have a full rainbow set of weapons. Factor in the dual mastery loss (44%) and UQ resistances of 15% (so you're doing 85% damage right off the bat for not using light on Anga, fire/light on darkers, or ice on natives), and you're losing out on a considerable amount of damage. Tech users actually have it worse if their main element is resisted than if a melee/ranged class gets one/two weapons resisted, since the latter can use their other weapons from their main or subclass without any lose in damage to that particular weapon, while a Force can use any other element, but eats a huge penalty to their damage for doing so.

About good 12*s in UQs. The standard practice for UQs currently is Anga farm. That's it. Your odds of getting a 13* are better than your odds of getting a 12*. And you should never use a 250% unless you're popping Anga crystals. Personally, I've seen plenty of 13*s a couple Chain Swords, and never a Heaven's Punisher, so I would bet my money on 13*s getting priority here. Chain Sword is only good for tanking hits, so it's of limited usefulness anywhere besides UQs and solo play, and you'd have to either suck really hard or be tanking hits hardcore for it to be of any value in the first place. Pretty niche, really.


If Anga can just outright resist Light in addition to other elements naturally then that sucks pretty bad for casters. A caster-heavy party full of Ice/Light mastery builds could very well shut themselves out of all their elemental masteries.

Anga can indeed resist light. Leaving gunslashes as the only unresisted option available to tech users. 'course, techs would still do more damage here, but gotta point that one out to the "tech users have it easy!" crowd.

[Macman]

Well if you're a FO/TE you at least have the subclass' elemental masteries to fall back on.

[Z-0]

Not really, because not hitting the weak element gives you a huge drop in damage as a FO.

[LonelyGaruga]

Yup. Everything mentioned prior was assuming Fo/Fi or Fo/Br because Fo/Te actually loses out on more. Fo/Te loses out on EWH by not matching weaknesses, so that's another 20% on top of everything. Actually, UQ resistance is technically a 45% loss in damage instead of 15% like I said earlier because of not getting elemental weakness bonus. So 45%, 20%, 12.5-15% (unless matching weapon element), 44% unless dual masteries...really eats into your damage output. And a tech user cannot do anything about this, not even switch weapons, unlike a melee/range class.

Seriously, tech users (and by tech users, I mean Force players) are the ones disadvantaged in UQs. Don't wanna see anyone saying otherwise, no excuse to not carry different weapon categories. Unless you're a Techer or Bouncer, you only need 1-2 per category.

EDIT: Actually scratch what I said about Fo/Br, that one loses out on more damage than Fo/Te, Weak Stance won't work very well without elemental weaknesses. Weak Stance vs Average Stance is a loss of 24% damage.

[Great Pan]

None, they're all too hard for me.

[Achelousaurus]

Stop spouting BS.
No other content of the game really requires more than 1 weapon. It's BS that Anga does and it certainly isn't enough to get a good other weapon only for Anga.

It's complete nonsense to be forced to get another good weapon for a single boss. Especially when most of ult is a horrible clusteruck without a good mpa and even then people will hold back so they can continue to use their main weapon / element and not be forced to compensate.

And I have to massively facepalm at pretending that proper play of a class like gunner or braver requires to use more than 1 weapon. You have to stop spouting BS just for argument's sake, like in the other topic about xh drops.

[Maenara]

Wow, classes that only use one weapon type aren't good against Anga! Who's ever heard of a boss that's shafted some builds more than others?

[Rakurai]

I'm surprised at how few people bother using Zanverse on Anga (Or any boss in general for that matter).

It does enough damage that it usually ends up resisting it, assuming it even lives long enough to get a chance to do that.

[Maenara]

Assuming an MPA consisting of 12 people whose DPS is identical, including at least one caster class, the most efficient thing that caster can do is spam Zanverse during bosses. Unless someone else already is, of course.

[Rakurai]

I'd like to hope that if multiple players are spamming Zanverse, the one with the highest damage multiplier takes effect, but probably not.

[LonelyGaruga]

Stop spouting BS.
No other content of the game really requires more than 1 weapon. It's BS that Anga does and it certainly isn't enough to get a good other weapon only for Anga.

It's complete nonsense to be forced to get another good weapon for a single boss. Especially when most of ult is a horrible clusteruck without a good mpa and even then people will hold back so they can continue to use their main weapon / element and not be forced to compensate.

And I have to massively facepalm at pretending that proper play of a class like gunner or braver requires to use more than 1 weapon. You have to stop spouting BS just for argument's sake, like in the other topic about xh drops.

I'm sorry, I'm not a scrub, I don't share your mentality. I don't think that one weapon is sufficient for any aspect of gameplay. Do you ever watch TA videos or anything else like that? Using multiple weapons is being efficient. Equipping yourself with baseline requirements of just one weapon in UQs, even if you're a Gunner or a Braver, is no better than running around with 9*s in SH TD3. Gunner can make perfectly adequate use of assault rifles, gunslashes, partisans, and launchers, and should do so. Katana Bravers can make perfectly adequate use of partisans and wired lances and should do so. Bow Bravers can make perfectly adequate use of assault rifles, launchers, and gunslashes, and should do so. Saying otherwise is not spouting BS, it is stating facts about playing efficiently. You have options. Suggesting that you can play as efficiently as possible with just one weapon is spouting BS.

The fact that no content required multiple weapons is irrelevant when considering that multiple weapons has always been the standard for efficient play. Even in VH, every class that subbed Hunter had excellent partisan usage, even Fo/Hu was a thing for TAs because of this, so it's not like this is a strange, new phenomenon. If you were playing efficiently, you would have no issue with this handicap. Since you didn't do so beforehand, you're paying the price for it. Don't think Anga's worth getting another weapon to fight against? Don't think this is good game design? Too bad, this content is supposed to cater to efficient players that would have no trouble bypassing Anga's resistances. In thinking one weapon should always be sufficient, you are handicapping yourself and everyone you play with. The handicap was always there, it just never meant enough before.

Even if Anga was the sole maker of the trend of using multiple weapons, it should be evident that you're supposed to get multiple weapons to fight it instead of bitching about how you can't rely on one weapon anymore and claiming Anga isn't worth the trouble of getting another weapon. If you really feel that way, get the hell out of UQs. You're a liability taking up a spot a better player can take.

[Walkure]

Stop spouting BS.
No other content of the game really requires more than 1 weapon. It's BS that Anga does and it certainly isn't enough to get a good other weapon only for Anga.

It's complete nonsense to be forced to get another good weapon for a single boss. Especially when most of ult is a horrible clusteruck without a good mpa and even then people will hold back so they can continue to use their main weapon / element and not be forced to compensate.

And I have to massively facepalm at pretending that proper play of a class like gunner or braver requires to use more than 1 weapon. You have to stop spouting BS just for argument's sake, like in the other topic about xh drops.I thought almost every melee with HU sub liked using multiclass partisans, at the least.

I'll repeat again that in an MPA, you can switch to taking care of the mobs if you really don't have any other weapon options.



Assuming an MPA consisting of 12 people whose DPS is identical, including at least one caster class, the most efficient thing that caster can do is spam Zanverse during bosses. Unless someone else already is, of course.You'd be surprised at how big of an assumption that is.

Let's take a worst case scenario, caster does nothing but use Zanverse and otherwise deals x damage. An example would be having to use multiple Zanverses to cover the MPA:

x+P <= P(1+Z)

Where x is caster's damage, P is rest of MPA's damage, and Z is contribution from zanverse.

If there's no other modifiers to Zanverse, then:
Z=20% (base power) * 85% (Anda's resistance) = 17%

x+P <= P + 17%*P
x <= 17%*P

That'd be over twice the amount you'd expect from identically distributed damage, buuut if you're able to single-handedly cause Agna to resist light, you're probably doing more than that.


Gunner can make perfectly adequate use of assault rifles, gunslashes, partisans, and launchers, and should do so.

I don't know about this part; they have the option, and some of those get discussion in the Gunner thread, but that doesn't necessarily make it a great option. A lot of those options definitely seem like they'd be in a similar range as a tech class being force to use a non-mastery element. Probably a bit worse since so little from the GU skill tree could apply.

[Macman]

I want to play 1/3 of a class.

I bet you never brought a gun to Caves or Dark Falz form 3, either.

[LonelyGaruga]

I don't know about this part; they have the option, and some of those get discussion in the Gunner thread, but that doesn't necessarily make it a great option. A lot of those options definitely seem like they'd be in a similar range as a tech class being force to use a non-mastery element. Probably a bit worse since so little from the GU skill tree could apply.

I wouldn't really know, I think the Hunter and Ranger subclasses can make up for this somewhat. Gu/Hu partisan usage seems pretty solid, and IIRC assault rifles are the best option for a number of things regardless of subclass (Satellite Cannon's hard to beat). At the very least, it's better than sticking with a resisted weapon to fight Anga, and there's always mopping up mobs like you mentioned. Though a Gu/Ra should probably stick to WBing Anga before prioritizing mobs.

Main point is just that they aren't made useless by Anga resisting TMGs. While I made a point that Force has it pretty rough if their main elements get resisted, I would never say that they're useless, unlike SOME posts here with certain other classes.

[horseship]

The viability of partizan as a gunner is kind of a stretch in my opinion. It just wouldn't do very good damage outside of chain, especially if you're affixed for r-atk. One shotting trash in SH, fine, but in XH and UQ it's kind of useless. Rifles and launchers have their uses if you sub ranger, not too sure about gunslash over TMG PAs. Launcher is specifically useful for killing Kartagots from the front, and possibly better than TMG in some mobbing situations. ZRA Cosmos Breaker and Rodeo Drive is also kind of cool.

While I do agree that using multiple weapons is more efficient than using only one, I would say that there's certainly an issue of running out of weapon palettes to use them all. It's a legitimate reason to stick to only one depending on your preferred playstyle. Using sword without dedicating all 6 palettes to sword PAs is pretty limiting, so you're really not able to fit in more slots for Assault Buster, Holding Current, and maybe Kaiser Rise or Wild Round just to build gear for HC. Not that sword is a weapon that should even be mentioned when talking about efficiency, but it's not like a FI/HU or HU/FI can use most weapons in their arsenal all at once and have access to every single PA each weapon can use at will anyway. I shouldn't even have to go into how bad the combo system is in limiting your weapon/PA selection.

[Z-0]

Personally I've never understood the notion that one plays a "Twin Dagger user" or a "Double Saber user", and refuses to use anything else. I can understand using your favourite weapon when it works, regardless of it being the most efficient or not, but people will just not use anything else, even if that weapon sucks for certain situations. . _.

I like to play classes to their maximum potential though, rather than pigeonholing myself into certain aspects of a class. People complain about PSO2 just being about using the same attacks over and over again, but the most efficient way to play is to use lots of different attacks in different situations, and people seem to overlook that because it's hard or something, and needs more investment than just using one thing over and over again.

I mean, there's uses for Bow as Braver (bursts, Tower Defense assistance from your lane in premade MPAs), Jet Boots as Force (shortcutting, step, dodging out of dangerous Zondeels, Razonde becomes effective), and things like that, but unless you're using something 90% of the time, people just won't look into it.

EDIT: Yes, the combo system really needs to be reworked. Anything with a shift action uses that awful limiting system. They should really implement it like Nova: Shift actions are actually placed on the palette much like PAs, so all weapons use the same palette system as Rifles, etc.

[Remz69]

as far as i'm concerned, i like efficient play and variety and i've been playing Fi/Hu for the longest time so i'm good on alternatives

but still i don't like the implementation of this 'imunity' system
i look at it this way, if i'm Braver and i can't use katana, i might as well play Fi. If i'm gunner and i can't use TMGs, again, i might as well play Ra or Fi

for some classes, the alternatives just make you feel like a knock-off while some others don't have this problem

[Selphea]

Letting Hu be shorthand for combined multipliers on a Hu sub. According to Walkure's PA stats (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224505):

Outside of Katana Combat, a Br/Hu using Hatou 16* would do 1408 Pow/sec with a 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.1 x Hu multiplier = 1959Hu Pow/sec.

Outside of Chain Trigger, a Gu/Hu using Volg-Slide End-Throw at 16 would do 1690 Pow/sec with a 1.2 x 1.1 Average High Time x Hu multiplier = 2230Hu Pow/sec.

*Using 16 because there was no data on Volg-Slide End-Throw at 17.

So an SATK-affixed Gunner like Maenara's build could theoretically do more DPS with a Partisan than a Br/Hu outside of Katana Combat. And while the Br/Hu would have higher DPS during Katana Combat, the Gu/Hu has Chain Trigger.

I dunno, I think SATK Gunner is pretty viable unless Katana Braver somehow isn't viable.

[Walkure]

Letting Hu be shorthand for combined multipliers on a Hu sub. According to Walkure's PA stats (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224505):

Outside of Katana Combat, a Br/Hu using Hatou 16* would do 1408 Pow/sec with a 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.1 x Hu multiplier = 1959Hu Pow/sec.

Outside of Chain Trigger, a Gu/Hu using Volg-Slide End-Throw at 16 would do 1690 Pow/sec with a 1.2 x 1.1 Average High Time x Hu multiplier = 2230Hu Pow/sec.

*Using 16 because there was no data on Volg-Slide End-Throw at 17.

So an SATK-affixed Gunner like Maenara's build could theoretically do more DPS with a Partisan than a Br/Hu outside of Katana Combat. And while the Br/Hu would have higher DPS during Katana Combat, the Gu/Hu has Chain Trigger.

I dunno, I think SATK Gunner is pretty viable unless Katana Braver somehow isn't viable.Oh, High Time can apply to melee attacks too? How exactly does that work?

Even then, Gunner is relying not getting hit for Perfect Keeper and High Time to be consistently up. Hatou's great because it's easy to throw out, does a ton of damage for how quick it is, covers a decent area, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg for PP. If Volg Combos are easy and consistent, then I don't see why the Braver wouldn't be using them as well.

I just kinda forgot how lowish Braver's multipliers are; I was thinking either HU/FI or FI/HU in the back of my head while considering that.


I shouldn't even have to go into how bad the combo system is in limiting your weapon/PA selection.It's such a limiting factor to true Tech Arts JA styling ; w;


EDIT: Yes, the combo system really needs to be reworked. Anything with a shift action uses that awful limiting system. They should really implement it like Nova: Shift actions are actually placed on the palette much like PAs, so all weapons use the same palette system as Rifles, etc.Eh, that seems like kind of a weak option as well. That opens up the choices from one 3-PA string (which kind of works for some PA combos!) to two options to use for a PA, since melees really want access to their shift actions. Guess there'd be no other way to split weapon actions and PA switch entirely due to the controller button layouts? That'd also pave the way for other weapons which currently have the switch system to get their own weapon actions as well.

[Selphea]

Yea High Time works for all damage. You just have to swap to TMGs to activate it, then swap back to whatever you were using.

With One More Time the average bonus is more than 1.1. 1.1 assumes some hits taken in between. And with Gunner's APPR the PP cost isn't too bad - in fact I think your charts say they're pretty close for PP efficiency.

I'm not sure if Aerial Advance applies to Anga too - it seems like a flyer but I haven't thought to test on my non-AA build to confirm.

[Zorak000]

when I get going on my not-tech-oriented characters I am gonna try my hardest to get it to resist gunslash on me

[Maenara]

The viability of partizan as a gunner is kind of a stretch in my opinion. It just wouldn't do very good damage outside of chain, especially if you're affixed for r-atk. One shotting trash in SH, fine, but in XH and UQ it's kind of useless. Rifles and launchers have their uses if you sub ranger, not too sure about gunslash over TMG PAs. Launcher is specifically useful for killing Kartagots from the front, and possibly better than TMG in some mobbing situations. ZRA Cosmos Breaker and Rodeo Drive is also kind of cool.

While I do agree that using multiple weapons is more efficient than using only one, I would say that there's certainly an issue of running out of weapon palettes to use them all. It's a legitimate reason to stick to only one depending on your preferred playstyle. Using sword without dedicating all 6 palettes to sword PAs is pretty limiting, so you're really not able to fit in more slots for Assault Buster, Holding Current, and maybe Kaiser Rise or Wild Round just to build gear for HC. Not that sword is a weapon that should even be mentioned when talking about efficiency, but it's not like a FI/HU or HU/FI can use most weapons in their arsenal all at once and have access to every single PA each weapon can use at will anyway. I shouldn't even have to go into how bad the combo system is in limiting your weapon/PA selection.

Here's my damage in XH Christmas, using Slide End, as 75/75 HU/GU:
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/uwycIh0.png[/spoiler-box]

Honestly, I don't know how much more FI/HU or HU/FI can be doing with Partizan, I really don't. I'm sure it's higher, but it can't be that much more?

[horseship]

I was more referring to it as a subweapon for TMG rather than a standalone HU/GU partizan build, but since you asked for it, 75/75 HU/FI Slide End by yours truly:

[spoiler-box]http://www.i.imgur.com/2tfiqtS.jpg[/spoiler-box]

Bad screenshot but whatever. I used a shiftaride since you have shifta in your screenshot. The team buff I have in my screenshot is RDR, not attack.

[Maenara]

I don't have to use it as a sub weapon, works just as well for mobbing.