PDA

View Full Version : Just a dream about fighter



FireswordRus
Dec 12, 2014, 04:32 PM
remove fighter stance
Add critical stance 125% to power of crit damage and 15% to critical rate, crytical up1 to 120% to crit damage
Add Air stance 135% in the air (this can use bouncer and gunner or other class with a jump, and knife) remove wise critical ( or maybe block crit for this stance?)
Limit break, add 65-60% to all resistance....if u have HP 2000 and got 500 damage, you got damage 1/4 or 25% from your max hp. With new limit break, max HP: 2000*0.25=500, incoming damge 500*0.35=175
500/175=35% from Max HP

Just a dream

forgot 1 thing, add to limit breack: ignore knockdown, and limit breack cannot use with massive hunter ( or LB or MH)

Walkure
Dec 12, 2014, 05:12 PM
Add critical stance 125% to power of crit damage and 15% to critical rate, crytical up1 to 120% to crit damage
Why would you do that.

NoiseHERO
Dec 12, 2014, 05:16 PM
give fighter ability to teleport to targets without dumb combat escape cooldown.

BAM throw it on the "who to whine about who needs a nerf next" list!

Scale of Judgment
Dec 12, 2014, 07:24 PM
Give Fighter in game class exclusive combat macro cycling through all weapons within a PA. The unique PA combat is only achieved when player is able to manually pull it off.

NexusAZ
Dec 12, 2014, 08:40 PM
From what I can gather, you're wanting to buff Limit Break and give Fighter even more crit damage. Crit strike is already a decent point investment and Limit Break is pretty great as it stands. It procs deadline, halfline AND crazy skills on top of its damage bonus and only takes five points to hit the damage cap for it. It's meant to be risky in exchange for what it can do. Besides, Hunter has skills that you can use to lower damage taken and generally has a decent amount of points to play with once Fury skills are maxed out. I would prefer to keep the stances as they are as well. Stance dancing isn't nearly as bad now, but it would be cool if Fighter were to get a skill that allows instant activation such as Chain Trigger and Showtime as well as air activation. Would be great for TDs considering the shift action moves you now(assuming you invested the point). Apologies for any errors as I'm posting from my phone.

Achelousaurus
Dec 13, 2014, 07:32 AM
I just want different stances, I cannot stand this unreliable positioning nonsense.

Squall179
Dec 13, 2014, 08:22 AM
I just want different stances, I cannot stand this unreliable positioning nonsense.

I myself put all of the points into other skills, but eventually its gonna become required to burn them in one of those probably.

red1228
Dec 13, 2014, 10:09 AM
I just want different stances, I cannot stand this unreliable positioning nonsense.

T H I S.
Sure, I invested points into both stances (yes, you can laugh now) & Stance Cooldown is only like 5 seconds nowadays... but it's pretty fucking annoying that I need to aggro EVERYTHING (WarCry / ShowTime) to make Brave Stance work. Or try my luck at Wise Stance & pray that no one uses grab/hold PAs or send the non-boss target flying... Which is about as likely as finding a FighGunner who WASN'T using Tornado Dance, back in PSU.

I am seriously considering (the next time we get Skill Reset Passes) to just bypass Brave / Wise Stance all together & throw all my points into Limit Break, Slayer & Chase related skills. Because if the enemy's direction wont cooperate & the other players are just throwing shit around, why fucking bother with directional damage boosts? I don't even wanna level up Fighter to 75 :nono:

Nitro Vordex
Dec 13, 2014, 12:06 PM
positioning is easy. Git guud.

Evangelion X.XX
Dec 13, 2014, 01:19 PM
I don't even bother to put any points into Wise Stance on Skill Tree, and therefore don't have to deal with Stance Dance; I only use Brave Stance and try to position myself in front of the enemy(ies) at all times, which most of the time, they are in fact in front of me (even while MPA-ing with randoms). I just use the remaining points for other stuff such as maxing all the S-Atk Ups and I guess Chase Advance, whatever.

isCasted
Dec 13, 2014, 01:27 PM
positioning is easy. Git guud.

Not when many PAs are designed to shift your position against enemies.



In my opinion, all stance ideas except for Hunter's ones are dumb, and even those ones aren't executed properly. Right now they only serve as annoying, (almost) unavoidable filler multiplier skill point dump along with ZRA, WHA, SS, JA and Charge bonuses, and elemental masteries, and even nowadays' Wand Lovers. Yeah, those are all essential skills of the game, but that's what they are.

Skill trees in overall should be about stuff like Auto/Quickmate, All Guard, Charge Escape - stuff that really enchances gameplay instead of dumbing it down and setting own annoying rules. Skills (at least most of them) should not be level-based - it would be ok to have skills that function only if you put full SP requirement into them. Quick Mate and All Guard would be still balanced if they costed 10 SP instead of being 1 SP but main class only (maybe something like 5 SP for main-only and 5 more SP for all class would work). I appreciate that skills like that get added in first place, but with current model they are really unbalanced, and game will keep being hard to balance as long as damage multipliers and non-multiplier enchancements are all over the place like that.

Dammy
Dec 13, 2014, 01:38 PM
Limit break, add 65-60% to all resistance....if u have HP 2000 and got 500 damage, you got damage 1/4 or 25% from your max hp. With new limit break, max HP: 2000*0.25=500, incoming damge 500*0.35=175
500/175=35% from Max HP


drink more beer

Kiyumi
Dec 13, 2014, 02:54 PM
Limit break, add 65-60% to all resistance....if u have HP 2000 and got 500 damage, you got damage 1/4 or 25% from your max hp.

"I want all the benefits of limit break without any of the risks"

Walkure
Dec 13, 2014, 06:57 PM
Really curious about how you guys are going about mobbing if Chase Advance and this theoretical "Critical Stance" would be more reliable damage than Brave Stance in MPAs. Even in dense mobs that I didn't spawn (someone else has hate), you can work off that. An easy example for simple trash, like the SH EQ MPA trash mobs:
http://i.imgur.com/iCXM3js.png

Head towards center of mob's attention with Tornado Dance, grab everything with Chaos Riser, and then bop any survivors with Illusion Rave. You can maneuver around with Illusion Rave on the ground to get into proper stance as it's going off.

Selphea
Dec 13, 2014, 07:24 PM
Not when many PAs are designed to shift your position against enemies.



In my opinion, all stance ideas except for Hunter's ones are dumb, and even those ones aren't executed properly. Right now they only serve as annoying, (almost) unavoidable filler multiplier skill point dump along with ZRA, WHA, SS, JA and Charge bonuses, and elemental masteries, and even nowadays' Wand Lovers. Yeah, those are all essential skills of the game, but that's what they are.

Skill trees in overall should be about stuff like Auto/Quickmate, All Guard, Charge Escape - stuff that really enchances gameplay instead of dumbing it down and setting own annoying rules. Skills (at least most of them) should not be level-based - it would be ok to have skills that function only if you put full SP requirement into them. Quick Mate and All Guard would be still balanced if they costed 10 SP instead of being 1 SP but main class only (maybe something like 5 SP for main-only and 5 more SP for all class would work). I appreciate that skills like that get added in first place, but with current model they are really unbalanced, and game will keep being hard to balance as long as damage multipliers and non-multiplier enchancements are all over the place like that.

Some multipliers are okay, like TAJA which encourages a different way to use PAs rather than spamming the same one. Chase is also good, at least in intent, by encouraging SEs, which would otherwise be rarely used. Would be nicer if there was an SE that could be applied to bosses though.

But yea most of the multipliers are really quite pointless, and part of it is because PSO2 uses the mid-2000s skill/talent tree model with 1SP per level. Most newer games, like Guild Wars 2, Secret World, even WoW, seem to have learned it takes a LOT of effort to design a skill tree with 70+ meaningful choices for every class. Much less another 5-10 more every 6 months or so when the level cap is raised. So they switched to a 1SP per X levels or limit you to a deck of X passives at any given time, but with each choice having a big impact.

Achelousaurus
Dec 13, 2014, 07:39 PM
positioning is easy. Git guud.
Sure.
So, what exactly do you do when enemies turn around mid pa?
Like during BHS?
What with PAs that turn enemies around themselves? Like Symphonic Dive and Chaos Riser?
And how do you fight a Caterdraan with DS without breaking stance?

KatsuraJun
Dec 13, 2014, 07:52 PM
You guys still get wise?

It is a total waste of 20pts aside from like a grand total of two bosses (Big Vardha, Dark Falz Arms).

Just stop doing stupid shit like

What with PAs that turn enemies around themselves? Like Symphonic Dive
using Symphonic Drive on normal mobs, because no boss gets turned around by symphonic, why would you even do that, there's a million better PAs to use than a single target one that launches something away if you didn't oneshot it.

LonelyGaruga
Dec 13, 2014, 07:57 PM
In my opinion, all stance ideas except for Hunter's ones are dumb, and even those ones aren't executed properly. Right now they only serve as annoying, (almost) unavoidable filler multiplier skill point dump along with ZRA, WHA, SS, JA and Charge bonuses, and elemental masteries, and even nowadays' Wand Lovers.

Skill trees in overall should be about stuff like Auto/Quickmate, All Guard, Charge Escape - stuff that really enchances gameplay instead of dumbing it down and setting own annoying rules.

Wand Lovers changes the dodge action of wands to Step. How is it anything like the former and not the latter.

Nitro Vordex
Dec 13, 2014, 08:01 PM
Sure.
So, what exactly do you do when enemies turn around mid pa?
Like during BHS?
What with PAs that turn enemies around themselves? Like Symphonic Dive and Chaos Riser?
And how do you fight a Caterdraan with DS without breaking stance?
Guilty Fist...I mean, the new Knuckle PA does knockdown. There's no reason for you to be missing a BHS. Symphonic Dive is not for mobs. I don't remember what Chaos Riser is.

Fighting a Catadick with DS... :lol:

LonelyGaruga
Dec 13, 2014, 08:03 PM
Chaos Riser is a really good DS mobbing PA. I don't think the complaint is any more relevant than with the other PAs mentioned.

BIG OLAF
Dec 13, 2014, 08:04 PM
Guilty Fist...I mean, the new Knuckle PA does knockdown. There's no reason for you to be missing a BHS. Symphonic Dive is not for mobs. I don't remember what Chaos Riser is.

Fighting a Catadick with DS... :lol:

Chaos Riser is the vacuum move for double-sabers.

Also, why is using double-sabers against a Catadran funny? With Wise Stance on and Tornado Dance (with some Chaos Riser thrown in), alongside stacking DS gear with my Meteor Cudgel, I can ruin them.

Z-0
Dec 13, 2014, 08:05 PM
Wise is good for FiBo in Tower Defense, but it's the only use I can find for it.

Even then, if you're strong enough, FiBos can kill Bibras by attacking the head core instead.

Nitro Vordex
Dec 13, 2014, 08:20 PM
Chaos Riser is the vacuum move for double-sabers.

Also, why is using double-sabers against a Catadran funny? With Wise Stance on and Tornado Dance (with some Chaos Riser thrown in), alongside stacking DS gear with my Meteor Cudgel, I can ruin them.
I punch things. I don't need double ended toothpicks.

Walkure
Dec 13, 2014, 08:50 PM
Sure.
So, what exactly do you do when enemies turn around mid pa?
Like during BHS?
What with PAs that turn enemies around themselves? Like Symphonic Dive and Chaos Riser?
And how do you fight a Caterdraan with DS without breaking stance?
If the mob moves suddenly mid BHS, it's probably no longer hitting whatever point you were trying to target anyways.

Against mobs that turn around when they get launched and hit the ground, you can just kill them before they hit the ground (again Chaos Riser -> Illusion Rave is good for this). Mobbing with Symphonic is very niche, and the times where I do want to Symphonic I just lock-on and I can tell where the stance would end up anyways.

For Brave Stance DS on Catadraan, you'd be looking for big damage whenever you can hit him when he's stretched. So Chaos Riser would be useful here again since it's a big fat burst of damage at max gear. For Wise Stance, you can do the same strategy or just go for the tail crystal.

Chaos Riser is a really good DS mobbing PA. I don't think the complaint is any more relevant than with the other PAs mentioned.There's a valid complaint in there; enemies get grouped up facing the same way they were facing beforehand. If they were all in a circle, facing towards the center, then the center clump would have mobs facing every direction.

You can alleviate that a bit by positioning the Riser well, and then moving around in Illusion Rave so that you get the most mobs on proper stance. It'd be really cool if mobs got positioned so they'd face a constant direction as they're caught in the cyclone, but as of right now Chaos Riser and related combos are strong enough where it doesn't really need the change at the moment.

Things like that do make Brave Stance not active 100% of the time on all the mobs, but Chaos Riser combos can be so good that it's worth dealing with losses on a few mobs.

Kiyumi
Dec 13, 2014, 09:07 PM
What exactly does Chaos Riser do? It includes the damage of all ticks of the tornado?

LonelyGaruga
Dec 13, 2014, 09:20 PM
Things like that do make Brave Stance not active 100% of the time on all the mobs, but Chaos Riser combos can be so good that it's worth dealing with losses on a few mobs.

This is what makes the complaint about it irrelevant, at least I think. Chaos Riser turning stuff around occasionally isn't meaningful enough to detract from its usefulness, so no point in treating it as if it were useless because of the fact.


What exactly does Chaos Riser do? It includes the damage of all ticks of the tornado?

More damage and range with more DS Gear.

Dephinix
Dec 13, 2014, 11:44 PM
Yeah, it sucks having to position yourself for max output, but worst care scenario you lost 25%/20% trying to re-position yourself. I never had a hard time with this using knuckles. That damage loss really shouldn't even matter in SH. Of course 1 point in Warcry might save you some trouble too..

Nitro Vordex
Dec 14, 2014, 02:18 AM
Learning to use step makes positioning easy. You can also use lock on if you want to center the camera on the enemy, rather than a freestyle type of dash.

isCasted
Dec 14, 2014, 03:07 AM
Wand Lovers changes the dodge action of wands to Step. How is it anything like the former and not the latter.

Well, it's a (rather nice) side effect (which I'd want to work with Wands by default instead of it being bound to a skill). Main effects are 45% damage boost (<-) and complete ellimination of Wand Gear accumulation mechanic (which could be annoying in first place, but now it's just a waste of coding job). It was fine back when its duration wasn't infinite.

Keilyn
Dec 14, 2014, 07:11 AM
Techer is my favorite sub for fighter. :) Though it creates big problems in which once addressed it feels like a godsend. Without the existence of this combination I would have quit this game. ;)

The combination made me feel like I was playing a real game where I had to address constraints, and issues where equipment and proper distribution truly makes the difference and are essential...and exist for something beyond generating enough fluff worthy of a youtube video.

The cute thing is that the equipment (and even crafting levels) along with weapon affixes, Skill Point Distribution in both types down to even my mag is so important that messing up on it makes Fighter/Techer play like garbage....Its THAT sensitive. :P

It reminds me of Force/Techer where it really is a "The whole is better than the sum of the parts" ^_^

I like this thread. :P

Achelousaurus
Dec 14, 2014, 09:21 AM
Well yeah.
It's not killing stuff I have trouble with. But I value reliability a lot. And it really irritates me when I break stance.

And honestly, I am gonna disregard eevry single post saying wise stance is useless unless someone can show me a video of a full EQ run with mobs (fang banther / ocean of death / Chrome / etc) where they have brave stance as frequently as when soloing.

My problem isn't that I can't do fighter stances, my main problem is that having stance boost only 80% of the time is insufficient for me.

LonelyGaruga
Dec 14, 2014, 12:23 PM
Well, it's a (rather nice) side effect (which I'd want to work with Wands by default instead of it being bound to a skill). Main effects are 45% damage boost (<-) and complete ellimination of Wand Gear accumulation mechanic (which could be annoying in first place, but now it's just a waste of coding job). It was fine back when its duration wasn't infinite.

Techer was almost unplayable without Step. Pre-EP3 Techer was barely viable and only good with Wand Lovers active, but because it was on a timer it was only active half the time. Which meant that half the time (at most) you were stuck with a useless dodge and 35% less damage. Saying it was fine before EP3's changes is idiotic and telling that you did not main Techer. Calling Step a side effect when literally no other skill changes a weapon's dodge action, a completely unprecedented change that nearly every melee Techer was asking for, in favor of describing eliminating the need to build Wand Gear (which was easy enough to begin with) as a main effect is no less idiotic.

40%, by the way.


Techer is my favorite sub for fighter. :) Though it creates big problems in which once addressed it feels like a godsend. Without the existence of this combination I would have quit this game. ;)

The combination made me feel like I was playing a real game where I had to address constraints, and issues where equipment and proper distribution truly makes the difference and are essential...and exist for something beyond generating enough fluff worthy of a youtube video.

The cute thing is that the equipment (and even crafting levels) along with weapon affixes, Skill Point Distribution in both types down to even my mag is so important that messing up on it makes Fighter/Techer play like garbage....Its THAT sensitive. :P

Would you quit making this BS up? Te/Fi is better in every important way, and unless you're deliberately building your skill tree to be garbage and affixing and building your mag solely for defensive stats, you aren't playing like garbage.


And honestly, I am gonna disregard eevry single post saying wise stance is useless unless someone can show me a video of a full EQ run with mobs (fang banther / ocean of death / Chrome / etc) where they have brave stance as frequently as when soloing.

You're going to disregard the experience of far better players because you can't imagine them being good enough for this? Kinda sad.

Achelousaurus
Dec 15, 2014, 08:22 AM
Well, this is still the internet and while a lot of advice can easily be seen when I try it myself, this is something that time and again I see proven wrong every day.

Just look at that nice topic from SonataDesu, providing a lot more information then the usual "only use brave stance cause wise stance is pointless" one liner.
Still completely wrong.

Also, when darkers appear they have massive aggro for the local enemies and vice versa, competing with that isn't that easy either.

NexusAZ
Dec 15, 2014, 08:39 AM
Wise Stance isn't useless, but it's something that you generally won't miss if you pass on it. Many Fighters prefer to spec into other damage boosting skills instead as they generally get more use. Wise really only gets use during some EQs(love me some Vibras butts), some TAs and some bosses. Don't get me wrong, Wise is a nice damage boost when it's applicable, but you'll be in Brave far more often. I'd say preference does play some part in it though.

LonelyGaruga
Dec 15, 2014, 01:01 PM
Well, this is still the internet and while a lot of advice can easily be seen when I try it myself, this is something that time and again I see proven wrong every day.

Just look at that nice topic from SonataDesu, providing a lot more information then the usual "only use brave stance cause wise stance is pointless" one liner.
Still completely wrong.

Also, when darkers appear they have massive aggro for the local enemies and vice versa, competing with that isn't that easy either.

SonataDesu's information is all useless because he's an idiot that is convinced his playstyle is the best without recognizing that better ways to play exist. All of it is useless and makes no sense because of that. There is no explanation or logic backing anything said in that thread, most of the stuff he says is completely fictitious, and most people with a basic grasp of the game can figure that out. The people saying Wise Stance is generally not useful are all competent players and have given thorough explanations as to how they get around it. It's not the same thing at all, and reducing the explanations you've been given to that one liner is an insult to everyone who's bothered to try to explain it to you. Not cool.

Enemies aggro the first thing that gets in range. But War Cry makes that irrelevant anyway.

Walkure
Dec 15, 2014, 05:35 PM
Well yeah.
It's not killing stuff I have trouble with. But I value reliability a lot. And it really irritates me when I break stance.
...
My problem isn't that I can't do fighter stances, my main problem is that having stance boost only 80% of the time is insufficient for me.Fighter's all about having a shitton of conditional multipliers. It even applies to the weapons themselves; Twin Dagger loses as damage from getting grazed by a Infection Core projectile as it does from losing Brave Stance. Poison/Burn basically shut down Twin Dagger and Knuckle gear while they're active.

Fighter's always been about having a huge array of conditional multipliers that you have to work with. Since Episode 3, just about every single one of them has gotten more accessible in some way.

And honestly, I am gonna disregard eevry single post saying wise stance is useless unless someone can show me a video of a full EQ run with mobs (fang banther / ocean of death / Chrome / etc) where they have brave stance as frequently as when soloing.I have Wise Stance on 2/3 of my FI trees, so it's not useless. The main build I roll around with uses other skills, but it's definitely not useless.

Most of Brave Stance-only builds make the assumption that they're going to rush for the kill on the weakpoint. Or, if they do break stuff, they either break only the front-targetable parts, do janky stuff to hit the back parts with Brave, or just deal with the damage loss.

Anyways:

Against Banthers, if you're going for damage rushing then hitting the head will be more damage since it's a 2.0x multiplier while everything else is a 0.8x. And he spends a lot of time either in a stagger animation or roaring where you can get absolutely free damage.
Against Chrome, I just use TDs, lock onto head, and Symphonic whenever he moves around.


Wise Stance isn't useless, but it's something that you generally won't miss if you pass on it. Many Fighters prefer to spec into other damage boosting skills instead as they generally get more use. Wise really only gets use during some EQs(love me some Vibras butts), some TAs and some bosses. Don't get me wrong, Wise is a nice damage boost when it's applicable, but you'll be in Brave far more often. I'd say preference does play some part in it though.All of this. It's underrated but it definitely can be dropped on a LB build just because there's not enough SP for all stances and all the good skills accessible with LB. I don't really understand the guys who go for a non-LB build who also drop it, but then again I'd prefer HU/FI without LB on the table anyways.

Vibras's face is also good for Brave Stance but people don't always or even usually go for that with WB.