Thinking of jumping ship.

[Shinamori]

I was thinking of jumping to ship4, dunno. Any ships where people actually play?

[NoiseHERO]

learn japan and goto ship 1

or whatever the least expensive economy is.

[Shinamori]

Ship 2s' market is horrid. I'm actually starting to learn a bit.

[NoiseHERO]

I HEARD 1's market was okay but, not sure about other 8.

but yeah fuck ship2 market

[Xaeris]

Ship 4 is usually one of the first ships to hit congested/full status when there's a good EQ on the schedule so it's likely in the top 3 as far as player activity goes. Comparitively, it's not unusual for Ship to sit at Normal through the same EQ.

[Chimeria]

Ship 2s' market is horrid. I'm actually starting to learn a bit.
Is it really that bad? I've always been curious as to what the other ships are like but I hear the english population is pretty low on anything other than 2 and 10. And it seems the Japanese players aren't the friendliest towards US players. Well that and the language barrier.

[n_n]

And it seems the Japanese players aren't the friendliest towards US players.
I think the reason for that is fairly obvious and you guys brought that upon yourselves.

[Chimeria]

I think the reason for that is fairly obvious and you guys brought that upon yourselves.
How so? People here always seem to say that.

[NoiseHERO]

How so? People here always seem to say that.

I'm sure most jp players don't even care we exist, but everyone here just assumes everyone hates us as much as we hate each other.

as for that whole filtering us out to actually have proper MPA thing, I doubt that's something they do just because of what country you're from. <_>

So no jp players don't hate us, they just don't wanna hold anyone's hand.

[n_n]

How so? People here always seem to say that.
Causing a great amount of grief for Japanese players, leeching/being useless in MPAs, selfish gameplay, the whole "casual/hardcore gamer" bullshit, etc. list goes on.

Also, English players tend to forget this is a Japanese game and do not know how to act which annoys some Japanese players.

Just look back at the "old days" of B20. Remember how the majority of the people there acted? Yeah.

[Shinamori]

Pretty much what Acrylic said.

[Vintasticvin]

Lol making money is piss easy noobs git gud tdn try i ugn ugh zzz h was j

Nah just kidding but I agree ship 2's player marmarket economy is pretty stupid but once in a while you can find a bargain.

[Edson Drake]

I thought about doing this a dozen of times, for many reasons, but then... 4 characters, oh boy.

[Shinamori]

I'm most likely gonna move at least one of my characters.

[Chrysheight]

I've never had an issue with JP players. Maybe I am just lucky, but they seem to like to converse. Also, yeah. 9mil for Loveless One +40 on Ship 2. Same wand on Ship 3 is 3 mil with better affixes.

[Husq]

I was thinking of jumping to ship4, dunno. Any ships where people actually play?

Afaik, ship4 has a mix population of gamers from many regions and plus it is highly active. If you need a english community or team, there are definitely english speaking people on it and active as well.
Ship10 however is a mixbag, you get a lot of players during campaigns, weekends and scheduled EQs, but once that is over, you won't find , A) full block and B) people that are on, are doing dailies or are afk in the lobbies.
So moving to ship4 isn't a bad idea, if you ask me.
I rarely log on to ship2 these days, because 98% of friendlist have migrated to other ships, it kinds off reflect the population on ship2, most people have moved.

[pkemr4]

ship 04 isnt all that great imo

[Sizustar]

Ship 2s' market is horrid. I'm actually starting to learn a bit.

In what way?
In other ship, such as ship 7, there are items that are more expensive then ship 2, and vice versa

[Lumpen Thingy]

In what way?
In other ship, such as ship 7, there are items that are more expensive then ship 2, and vice versa

Finally someone is thinking the same thing as me when it comes to markets in games like this. There are plenty of games in which the markets are just like PSO2 and that there isn't really a CHANGE when you go from one server to another.

[Z-0]

It doesn't really matter what the market is.

If prices are higher, you're making more money for things you find and things you do, but if prices are lower, you're making less money overall.

So there's not really much of a difference. . .

[Sizustar]

And also there are people that go from ship to ship to buy items from say..Ship 1/2, then go back to their ship<6/7/8> to resell at a profit

[LordKaiser]

Ship #2 economy was good in the past pecause there was more people playing the game and on mornings the status of the server was busy. Now ship #2 rarely gets the busy status. Less players = less people buying AC scrath items = less people undercutting each other = expensive items.

[Ordy]

Ship #2 economy was good in the past pecause there was more people playing the game and on mornings the status of the server was busy. Now ship #2 rarely gets the busy status. Less players = less people buying AC scrath items = less people undercutting each other = expensive items.

Less players = less people scratching AC
Less players = less people buying AC scrath items = less people undercutting each other = expensive items
Less players = less buyers = lower demand = same fucking shit

Your Argument is Invalid.

[Xaelouse]

Care more about the quality of your MPAs than a stupid economy.
Unless grind +1s cost 10k on a ship somewhere, but then someone will just transfer to buy them all up and sell for profit on their home ship.
It's thrilling at first, but gets stupid after awhile to continuously think about the economy. Much like the rest of the game.

[Radical Dreamer]

Causing a great amount of grief for Japanese players, leeching/being useless in MPAs, selfish gameplay, the whole "casual/hardcore gamer" bullshit, etc. list goes on.

Also, English players tend to forget this is a Japanese game and do not know how to act which annoys some Japanese players.

Just look back at the "old days" of B20. Remember how the majority of the people there acted? Yeah.

Yes, of course. All Japanese players are saints and all English players are dirty gaijin scum.

... Seriously, are we doing this again?

[pso2love]

*grabs popcorn* go on.

[NoiseHERO]

There is no popcorn left after that petition thread a year ago <_>

[Radical Dreamer]

*grabs popcorn* go on.


There is no popcorn left after that petition thread a year ago <_>

Are you two willing to settle for a fresh tray of pizza rolls instead?

[EvilMag]

Are you two willing to settle for a fresh tray of pizza rolls instead?

fuck yeah pizza rolls. I'm in!

[AlVaRo0515]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.quickmeme.com/img/8c/8c30f9ae1b4f8aca1ba0a08aa41aa29ba593182fccf1f4e2a9 41efebfab3ebc1.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Kiyumi]

Sorry for being on-topic but...

Im on ship 4. If you want to ask me the prices for anything I can look them up for you.

If youre in the US, its fairly empty during the daytime. EQs will have blocks 14 and maybe 15 and 16 full.

After midnight PST, EQs can sometimes fill 14-35 all the way. It gets really crowded and I often get so much lag I end up with 0 points on mining base. It seems to have gotten better after the last maintenance though.

There is an English speaking team with about 100 players, which I left because I learned Japanese and yeah, joined a JP team.

[Syklo]

<Leaves signature here>

[Skyly]

Yes, of course. All Japanese players are saints and all English players are dirty gaijin scum.

... Seriously, are we doing this again?

Upvote

[Maenara]

http://i.minus.com/iMGxWIoQ8xA1D.jpg
DO IYUT

[Lumpen Thingy]

Yes, of course. All Japanese players are saints and all English players are dirty gaijin scum.

... Seriously, are we doing this again?

I still remember seeing threads like this in the JP PSU days lol

[pso2love]

There is no popcorn left after that petition thread a year ago <_>

Good. Now you're beginning to understand.


Are you two willing to settle for a fresh tray of pizza rolls instead?

I dunno about Eastwood, but sure, I'll take some yummy pizza rolls. *omnomnom* Needs more hot sauce.

[SakoHaruo]

you should definitely jump ship. o3o

[Noblewine]

Man overboard! Man overboard!

[Z-0]

Yes, of course. All Japanese players are saints and all English players are dirty gaijin scum.

... Seriously, are we doing this again?
Let's be honest though. Go play on another ship and watch the quality of your PUG MPAs rise tenfold.

I have friends on 1, 4 and 8, and all of them say they're far better to play on than Ship 2 when you're doing EQs without an organised party, simply because English players aren't present (and when they are, they tend to exhibit the same behaviours as Ship 2 players -- the bad kind of behaviours).

You have to realise this "stereotype" about DIRTY GAIJIN SCUM is not unfounded, nor is it that far from the truth. Nobody is going to deny there are bad JP players and great EN players, but the scales tip far further one way, for sure.

I hate talking about how "bad" EN players are, simply because I am an EN player and it feels hypocritical, but I've noticed time and time again, when an MPA is filled with EN players, the quality is rather bad, but it's rather good when it's filled with JP players (usually, of course, had bad JP games. Never had a good game with full EN players though unless it's organised).

[Chigun]

Let's be honest though. Go play on another ship and watch the quality of your PUG MPAs rise tenfold.

I have friends on 1, 4 and 8, and all of them say they're far better to play on than Ship 2 when you're doing EQs without an organised party, simply because English players aren't present (and when they are, they tend to exhibit the same behaviours as Ship 2 players -- the bad kind of behaviours).

I spent the majority of my 1100 hours of playtime on ship 9 before transferring to ship 2 (mostly JP players). The quality of the games were the same. The problem with evidence based on anecdotes (stories from your friends in this case) is that there's usually a counter-anecdote just waiting to come out.


You have to realise this "stereotype" about DIRTY GAIJIN SCUM is not unfounded, nor is it that far from the truth. Nobody is going to deny there are bad JP players and great EN players, but the scales tip far further one way, for sure.

I don't know about the B20 crowd, but from the EN people I hang out with (in team, friends list and random games) they seem pretty well equipped and play decently. Given this is my only point of reference for EN players on ship 2 it's hard to take your point seriously. I understand westerners are more outspoken and this can be construed as being rude compared to the usually quiet (in public chat) JP players, but that's about as far as I'm willing to go on that. Generally people who are anti-west who also happen to be westerners just seem like people who apparently wished they were born Japanese, or something equally silly.



I hate talking about how "bad" EN players are, simply because I am an EN player and it feels hypocritical, but I've noticed time and time again, when an MPA is filled with EN players, the quality is rather bad, but it's rather good when it's filled with JP players (usually, of course, had bad JP games. Never had a good game with full EN players though unless it's organised).

And here I've been in mining defenses where the EN players all got the top 3, and the JP players did not. Maybe one day I'll experience these bad MPAs that you seem so sure are common as dirt... or maybe not.

[Xaeris]

Yes, of course. All Japanese players are saints and all English players are dirty gaijin scum.

... Seriously, are we doing this again?

Have you never noticed? PSOW works in cycles. This has all happened before. This will all happen again.

[Maenara]

TaigaUC: The Thread.

[LonelyGaruga]

I spent the majority of my 1100 hours of playtime on ship 9 before transferring to ship 2 (mostly JP players). The quality of the games were the same. The problem with evidence based on anecdotes (stories from your friends in this case) is that there's usually a counter-anecdote just waiting to come out.

I don't know about the B20 crowd, but from the EN people I hang out with (in team, friends list and random games) they seem pretty well equipped and play decently. Given this is my only point of reference for EN players on ship 2 it's hard to take your point seriously. I understand westerners are more outspoken and this can be construed as being rude compared to the usually quiet (in public chat) JP players, but that's about as far as I'm willing to go on that. Generally people who are anti-west who also happen to be westerners just seem like people who apparently wished they were born Japanese, or something equally silly.

And here I've been in mining defenses where the EN players all got the top 3, and the JP players did not. Maybe one day I'll experience these bad MPAs that you seem so sure are common as dirt... or maybe not.

1100 hours is not that much. Played over triple that and I can safely say that ship 2 has mostly bad English players and mostly good Japanese players. I can also say that ships 1, 4, and 8 are generally higher quality from what I've gathered about them, and I know basically nothing about 9, but if EN players are topping TD, odds are good the MPAs are pretty bad, and unless your runs are getting 5 SH TD1s or 3 SH TD3s consistently, you can't really say they're that great, because that's what high level players can accomplish.

And JP players are generally better than EN players, because cultural differences encourage JP players to better themselves. If you aren't good at what you do, you're replaceable. If you aren't doing your best, you're burdening the team through your lack of competence. But western cultures encourage individuality, so there's no cultural imperative to help other people by bettering yourself, nor is there any particular concern over not being able to do well. The fact of the matter is, JPs have to be better, because their culture requires them to be better. EN players generally do not have this drive, leading to an overall poorer quality. Most good EN players are driven to better themselves for various reasons, a drive bad players lack.

And it's really that simple. No drive = bad player, drive = good player. And as a whole, JPs are more driven toward self-improvement than EN players. That doesn't make them better, nor EN players worse, it's simply a difference in qualities that a culture emphasizes, which leads to a different result. It just so happens that this quality, where present, makes for better video game players, among other things. While there are many good EN players, there are even more good JP players.

[RealKillaK]

Having a Character on Ship 2,4,8 I can tell you for fact Ship 2 is the worst of the 3(Marketing,Pug Mpas,Anga). Ship 2 is fine if you play in a group and organize but outside of that majority of people which happen to be EN just don't care about gearing. I don't think its the fact that EN players suck because there's alot who can press buttons its not hard its the fact that their gear is so bad that they hit lower then npcs *this is a joke*.

PS:Just because someone name is in EN doesnt mean they're EN for the TD guy

[Vampy]

Having a Character on Ship 2,4,8 I can tell you for fact Ship 2 is the worst of the 3(Marketing,Pug Mpas,Anga). Ship 2 is fine if you play in a group and organize but outside of that majority of people which happen to be EN just don't care about gearing. I don't think its the fact that EN players suck because there's alot who can press buttons its not hard its the fact that their gear is so bad that they hit lower then npcs *this is a joke*.

PS:Just because someone name is in EN doesnt mean they're EN for the TD guy
Just adding to that last part even if the name is JP doesn't automatically make then JP it can easily be an EN player.

[Vintasticvin]

Just adding to that last part even if the name is JP doesn't automatically make then JP it can easily be an EN player.

WORD HOMES TELLEM LIKE IT IS BRAH!!

[Shinamori]

Made a new character on ship4. I'll transfer another when I hit 70/70 on another character.

[Selphea]

What I'll say about EN players is that


I only ever see PUG rage in English, and it seems to always be from players who don't seem to be doing much in the first place. Incidentally, a lot of them seem to be a female character in Sexy Bikini using some kind of misogynistic character name. These players go on my blacklist.
So far, whenever I see lewd symbol chat spam or obnoxious voiced LA spam and find the character to blacklist them, their Arks Card is always 100% English.
The randoms I get in my un-passworded games to bum a boss kill while doing 100 damage per attack have 100% English Arks Cards too.
I can safely say my blacklist is 100% English players right now ._.


I know that's not representative of all of the English community and there's bad Japanese players too, but the English black sheep seem to like standing out a lot more. That goes a lot way towards ruining it for everyone else :(

For the record I'm in an English team and my friend list is 100% English. It's like what Cartman says in South Park, "You have to wade through all the dicks to find the good ones".

[DJcooltrainer]

1100 hours is not that much.


Lol wat. Just because other people have played more, that's still about 46 DAYS of playtime. That's a lot of game time for anyone, I'm sorry.


On the topic at hand, I migrated from Ship 10 to Ship 2 last year, and I'd say it was worth it. I have a lot more friends I can play with. It's been so long since I transferred over, so I can't say if the economy is any better/worse, but it's nice having lots of friends to play with that actually speak my native language.

[Maenara]

http://i.minus.com/iMGxWIoQ8xA1D.jpg
DO IYUT

Damnit Sayara

[Walkure]

Sayara bringing the FIYAAAAAA http://i.imgur.com/Z3tqO8i.png


The only cool things that happen on Ship10 (Anga farming MPAs in B27, AQ farming parties, etcs) only really happen during JP Primetime, which is like 4:00AM my time and it's only really big on the weekends. Aside from that, there's a few people running dailies and whatnot but that's about it aside from EQs.

[LonelyGaruga]

Lol wat. Just because other people have played more, that's still about 46 DAYS of playtime. That's a lot of game time for anyone, I'm sorry.

Not comparatively speaking. Most people have at least 1500 hours, and a lot of players I know have even more playtime than the 3000+ I've put in. 5000+ would be pretty high up there.

Keep in mind that it's a case of perspective. Using myself as an example, I've played 3000+ hours between the MH games I've played and about 4000 hours between the two Dissidia: Final Fantasy games (doubt anyone would recognize them), and about 1500+ hours between SSBM and SSBB. Most games I've played that keep time besides those were for about 500+ hours and were relatively simple in comparison, like GBA games. From my perspective, 1100 hours is a little unusual between games that a person might play, indicating a clear preference, but is not a particularly large investment.

I definitely wouldn't call 46 days of playtime enough to get a feel for how two different ships behave, that's for sure. That's roughly 5-6 months of playing by my estimate. That's really nothing, would say at least twice that before making any concrete opinions about ship quality.

[Walkure]

I'm pretty sure that on an absolute scale, I've still played much more MHTri than I have PSO2. Total playtimes might be similar (~3800 on PSO2, and probably 1000hrs on an old character, 2100hrs on another character but a Wii that had the disc reader broke, traded that to family who just wanted a netflix box, and then another 500-600 on a final character when other friends picked up the game). I miss GameFAQs city gameplay.

'taint nothing compared to FFXI. Even if that's also a hefty amount of AFK time, it's still alarming when the /playtime started using years as a unit.

[Stormwalker]

Speaking as someone who is over 3000 hours (2200 on Katarin, 700 on Alessandra, well over 100 on Chorale, about 80 on Lyssa, and another couple of hundred across other alts... using someone's 1100 hour playtime to suggest they haven't played enough to judge the quality of the players they meet is ludicrous.

Also... my experiences on Ship 2:
1). Yeah, lots of EN players are bad. But quite a few EN players are really good, too.
2). I've been in some horribly bad JP multiparties.
3). I've been in some really good EN multiparties.
4). I've had a JP player tell me at the end of a multiparty, in English, "You are very good player." This shocked the heck out of me, because I don't consider myself all that good... but I do at least make an effort to have decent gear and not do stupid stuff.
5). Yes, the average JP multiparty cooperates better than the average EN one. This is not nearly as absolute a rule as some would suggest, though.
6). The average JP player, in my experience, doesn't hate us all. They do often hate our more disruptive elements, but they do understand that those people don't represent all of us... mostly. There are some who are so fed up they won't give an EN player a chance. But most of the JP I've met will accept you if you treat them with respect and fulfill your role in the group well.

They really aren't all that different from us. Their culture does encourage cooperation more than ours, and we could stand to learn from that, but they respond well to being treated well like anyone else... and respond badly to being treated badly like anyone else. Disrespect bothers them more than us, because irreverence is ingrained in our culture and reverence is ingrained in theirs. But that crosses lines, too. In a lot of cases, they will dislike one of their own who behaves badly more than they dislike us - they expect him to know better.

Remembering to be respectful takes you far with most JP players in my experience.

[LonelyGaruga]

Speaking as someone who is over 3000 hours (2200 on Katarin, 700 on Alessandra, well over 100 on Chorale, about 80 on Lyssa, and another couple of hundred across other alts... using someone's 1100 hour playtime to suggest they haven't played enough to judge the quality of the players they meet is ludicrous.

The ships as a whole, meaning the players they haven't met.

[Shinamori]

So, any teams on zhip4 that accepts low level players? My character name is ジュエル.

[Kiyumi]

You could join the team "Baka Gaijins". They are the English speaking team with the most members. I used to be on that team but I left.

[Shinamori]

Any particular reason why you left?

[Kiyumi]

I went to Japan for 4 months, didnt touch the game. When I got back, the friends I had in the team didnt log in much anymore, and there was a bunch of new people. So it didnt feel the same. I went to join a JP team because Ive always wanted to do that and now I know Japanese.

So it should be fine for you. It was really only personal reasons. Theyre not bad people or anything.

[Chrysheight]

I would say not all English players are bad. Hell if you needed someone to hang out with, I try to be available. I am always looking to meet new people. Like I met Vin the other day. One of the coolest people I know.

[nathanielzor]

Im in Ship 4 and the English community is dead as far as I know. Baka Gaijins is super inactive during my time at least. I literally just play alone...all the time. :(

sad life

[Dammy]

if foreign players move massively to any ship it will cause jp players to leave to other ship from that one, so it will be ship2 all over again, no different.
also, previous post makes sense, its important to have server population playing active on your timezone

just try to play with team/friends only , you should be fine

[Chigun]

1100 hours is not that much. Played over triple that and I can safely say that ship 2 has mostly bad English players and mostly good Japanese players.

As others have pointed out, suggesting one needs more than the equivalent of 46 consecutive days to get a gauge on player/game quality is not a point in your favor. I shouldn't need to say more, so I won't. If for some reason you still want to hold onto this as a valid point I can't really do anything about it. [cue big shrug]



I can also say that ships 1, 4, and 8 are generally higher quality from what I've gathered about them, and I know basically nothing about 9.

Is this actual experience or more of this "I heard from X, Y and Z." Because I can find people who will say ship 2 is the best ever and it'll bear about as much weight as your people's stories. And I assure you the ship 9 I played on was about as Japanese as it gets.



but if EN players are topping TD, odds are good the MPAs are pretty bad, and unless your runs are getting 5 SH TD1s or 3 SH TD3s consistently, you can't really say they're that great, because that's what high level players can accomplish.

As someone who usually did MPAs with 11 other well equipped random Japanese players and has never a single time made 3 TD3s, I ask if you're giving a realistic expectation. Do you usually do three while joining random games? Granted, I've stopped doing them after 13* and the like came out.

And to other people: is this normal? I may be out of the times. Lol.



And JP players are generally better than EN players, because cultural differences encourage JP players to better themselves. If you aren't good at what you do, you're replaceable. If you aren't doing your best, you're burdening the team through your lack of competence. But western cultures encourage individuality, so there's no cultural imperative to help other people by bettering yourself, nor is there any particular concern over not being able to do well. The fact of the matter is, JPs have to be better, because their culture requires them to be better. EN players generally do not have this drive, leading to an overall poorer quality. Most good EN players are driven to better themselves for various reasons, a drive bad players lack.

And it's really that simple. No drive = bad player, drive = good player. And as a whole, JPs are more driven toward self-improvement than EN players. That doesn't make them better, nor EN players worse, it's simply a difference in qualities that a culture emphasizes, which leads to a different result. It just so happens that this quality, where present, makes for better video game players, among other things. While there are many good EN players, there are even more good JP players.

I can't say I really disagree with this point of your post. I'm not going to sit here and say there are no bad EN players, since clearly there is a group of them running around, and even the occasional game hijack that still soils EN people's good name. But at the same time since there are EN players out there with the drive to be great, that alone means blanket statements like "baka gaijin" is overgeneralizing and unfair.

This is taking me back to a common argument on a PSO1 private server forum (unnamed for the rules' sake). Namely that of elite vs. casual. If that is the true nature of what we're arguing here, then I want no part of it. Because I think both mentalities have flaws. But if we are indeed just discussing JP player vs. EN player, I think we see--as is often pointed out--there are some good EN players just as there are some bad JP players.

Moo.

[Z-0]

If we are discussing EN vs JP player, there is absolutely no argument that the average JP player is far more skilled and has more common sense than the average EN player.

Yes, there are people at both extremities in both groups, but this is not what we're discussing. When it comes to English "elites", I can tell you 100% also that hardly any of them exist, and if they do exist and I just don't know about them (which I doubt, but who knows), I'd love to know about them so I could have more people to play with.

About the TD thing: No, 5-run TD1 and 3-run TD3 are not realistic expectations, but 4-run TD1 is a very realistic expectation of a random group, and they've been happening for well over 6 months, and I've never had them happen when the group is full of random English players. It doesn't happen all the time with Japanese players either, but I've had plenty of 4-run random TD1 games with a bunch of Japanese players.

I will add that "bad" people are not bad people in the sense of person, they're just seriously flawed at co-operating and pulling their weight in team missions, which is why people complain.

[LonelyGaruga]

As others have pointed out, suggesting one needs more than the equivalent of 46 consecutive days to get a gauge on player/game quality is not a point in your favor. I shouldn't need to say more, so I won't. If for some reason you still want to hold onto this as a valid point I can't really do anything about it. [cue big shrug]

That wasn't what I was saying in the first place, though even if it was, when you're comparing 46 consecutive days with the observations of multiple players who have several times that, it's not a good argument to bring up playtime. But what I was saying was that it isn't enough playtime to judge the entire ship you're playing on.


Is this actual experience or more of this "I heard from X, Y and Z." Because I can find people who will say ship 2 is the best ever and it'll bear about as much weight as your people's stories. And I assure you the ship 9 I played on was about as Japanese as it gets.

More of "I heard this from people that know what they're doing". Not simply random players, but people that are really good and knowledgeable about the game.


As someone who usually did MPAs with 11 other well equipped random Japanese players and has never a single time made 3 TD3s, I ask if you're giving a realistic expectation. Do you usually do three while joining random games? Granted, I've stopped doing them after 13* and the like came out.

And to other people: is this normal? I may be out of the times. Lol.

No, that's not what I mean, it isn't a realistic expectation for the typical run, but what high level players would be achieving. Really high level, but still.


I can't say I really disagree with this point of your post. I'm not going to sit here and say there are no bad EN players, since clearly there is a group of them running around, and even the occasional game hijack that still soils EN people's good name. But at the same time since there are EN players out there with the drive to be great, that alone means blanket statements like "baka gaijin" is overgeneralizing and unfair.

This is taking me back to a common argument on a PSO1 private server forum (unnamed for the rules' sake). Namely that of elite vs. casual. If that is the true nature of what we're arguing here, then I want no part of it. Because I think both mentalities have flaws. But if we are indeed just discussing JP player vs. EN player, I think we see--as is often pointed out--there are some good EN players just as there are some bad JP players.

I would say the problem is a matter of players being casual enough to directly hinder an MPA, the majority of which would be EN players, so it's not really EN vs JP or casual vs elitist. More like super casual vs everyone else. One of the only times I've engaged in a conversation in public chat, I ended up getting into an argument with a person that deliberately did not affix their equipment more than 2s because the lower damage made them more skilled. In the same conversation, they claimed to be so skilled that affixing their equipment further would not make a difference. They also had a 30 element weapon and didn't believe me when I said Banish Arrow and Vol Graptor don't apply Weak Bullet or weak points because swiki is an internet resource and the internet can be wrong, and there are an infinite number of possibilities to test under that could change results, like different...terrain. Yeah. Not even making this up.

Thankfully, every other player in the vicinity that was listening to the conversation and jumped in knew this was stupid, but there are people with that mentality running around. I don't think anyone can disagree that a person with that kind of perspective is really just handicapping themselves.

[Stormwalker]

I find it hilarious the expectations that people seem to have of the "average" player. You really expect a PUG of EN players who are conditioned against ever communicating in public chat because they get castigated for doing so even if they are saying something useful (more by their fellow EN players than the JP, usually!) is consistently going to be coordinated enough for 4 TD1 runs? That is completely unrealistic - if this is your expectation, you will be disappointed.

One of the biggest thing that holds back PUGs of English-speaking players is that everyone is having to guess what everyone else is doing because nobody talks - this will invariably result in guessing wrong and a tower being left undefended or some such crap sooner or later.

Also, I've seen a hell of a lot of JP players in TD with utter crap gear, and more than a few who had no idea what they were doing. There are a LOT more bad JP players out there than those who want to demonize the EN community are willing to admit.

That's all I'm going to say.

Well, no, I'm going to say one more thing. This is why I mostly solo and/or play with real-life friends lately... I've gotten sick of having to worry about whether I am meeting someone else's lofty standards, and when I solo I can just play and have fun. And I'm a pretty decent player, though I certainly wouldn't claim to be elite.

I enjoy the game a whole lot more this way, let me tell you. People who are so obsessed over min-maxing everything that they get mad if they only get 3 TD1 runs ruin the game for everyone else... so much that it's driven me out of running TD completely because I don't want to deal with the drama.

[tehfusion]

I'm the current team master of Baka Gaijins on ship 4, holding the position while the team founder is away. You're welcome to join if you'd like! Just send a request from the visiphone and a manager will add you to the team.

Regarding the activity levels — we have a lot of members, but player activity varies a lot. We have people from the UK, the US, the Philippines, and several other countries, which means that not everyone is in the same time zone. Sometimes people are busy and they don't come online much, and other times people are really active and the team is busy. I imagine most teams are like this.

There are several other English teams on ship 4 that you could consider joining instead, if you prefer. The other main team that I'm aware of is "NO", but there are quite a few more.

[Edson Drake]

I find it hilarious the expectations that people seem to have of the "average" player. You really expect a PUG of EN players who are conditioned against ever communicating in public chat because they get castigated for doing so even if they are saying something useful (more by their fellow EN players than the JP, usually!) is consistently going to be coordinated enough for 4 TD1 runs? That is completely unrealistic - if this is your expectation, you will be disappointed.

One of the biggest thing that holds back PUGs of English-speaking players is that everyone is having to guess what everyone else is doing because nobody talks - this will invariably result in guessing wrong and a tower being left undefended or some such crap sooner or later.

I think the general consensus is that people are discouraged to talk in lobbies, but highly encouraged to speak up in MPAs.

I tried many times to coordinate MPAs only to be just plain ignored. I don't know why, but as soon as you state that the party will move clockwise, some idiot immediately decides to turn the other way, probably just in spite, and his party follows, then another player follows and so on.

Sometimes I even have players that just plain ignore my WB! It probably goes like this:

"hey lets attack this" *WB*

"DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO" *turns to another target*

It's been over a year since I stopped trying to coordinate MPAs and I'd guess it's the same experience for most. And goes without saying that it's EN players that engage in that behaviour.

There are good ones, mostly bad ones, the japanese too, but at least they seem to listen, and try to cooperate.

[Maenara]

I've never had them happen when the group is full of random English players. It doesn't happen all the time with Japanese players either, but I've had plenty of 4-run random TD1 games with a bunch of Japanese players.

Simple statistics: There are way more Japanese players than English players, so you're far more likely to be in an MPA with more Japanese players when anything happens.

[Stormwalker]

I think the general consensus is that people are discouraged to talk in lobbies, but highly encouraged to speak up in MPAs.

I tried many times to coordinate MPAs only to be just plain ignored. I don't know why, but as soon as you state that the party will move clockwise, some idiot immediately decides to turn the other way, probably just in spite, and his party follows, then another player follows and so on.

Sometimes I even have players that just plain ignore my WB! It probably goes like this:

"hey lets attack this" *WB*

"DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO" *turns to another target*

It's been over a year since I stopped trying to coordinate MPAs and I'd guess it's the same experience for most. And goes without saying that it's EN players that engage in that behaviour.

There are good ones, mostly bad ones, the japanese too, but at least they seem to listen, and try to cooperate.

There are certainly those in the EN community who have no concept of team play. In my experience they're less common than some suggest, but I have certainly encountered them.

I've also encountered EN players who will jump all over anyone who dares speak English in an MPA even if that person is being helpful... after a few times of that you just stop trying.

Funnily enough, I've never had a JP player get upset at me for English use, except once when I forgot to disable my auto words and I totally deserved it in that case. But then, I don't say much in an MPA unless I have actual useful input. I've never had a sense that JP players minded English used for game purposes (as opposed to meaningless spam which they definitely do mind)... it's overzealous EN players speaking in the name of JP players that have been the problem I have seen there.

[LonelyGaruga]

I find it hilarious the expectations that people seem to have of the "average" player. You really expect a PUG of EN players who are conditioned against ever communicating in public chat because they get castigated for doing so even if they are saying something useful (more by their fellow EN players than the JP, usually!) is consistently going to be coordinated enough for 4 TD1 runs? That is completely unrealistic - if this is your expectation, you will be disappointed.

One of the biggest thing that holds back PUGs of English-speaking players is that everyone is having to guess what everyone else is doing because nobody talks - this will invariably result in guessing wrong and a tower being left undefended or some such crap sooner or later.

Also, I've seen a hell of a lot of JP players in TD with utter crap gear, and more than a few who had no idea what they were doing. There are a LOT more bad JP players out there than those who want to demonize the EN community are willing to admit.

That's all I'm going to say.

Well, no, I'm going to say one more thing. This is why I mostly solo and/or play with real-life friends lately... I've gotten sick of having to worry about whether I am meeting someone else's lofty standards, and when I solo I can just play and have fun. And I'm a pretty decent player, though I certainly wouldn't claim to be elite.

I enjoy the game a whole lot more this way, let me tell you. People who are so obsessed over min-maxing everything that they get mad if they only get 3 TD1 runs ruin the game for everyone else... so much that it's driven me out of running TD completely because I don't want to deal with the drama.

I got 4 TD1 runs in SH consistently doing random runs for the last few months up until XH came out, and I've seen 3 XH TD1 runs with these same randoms (still no triple TD3 though) That should be the standard for random players. That isn't min-maxing, that is quite frankly what the average should be. It's what the average JP parties do at any rate.

I also don't see why anyone should worry about meeting other people's standards. As long as you're trying to do your best to improve your equipment and performance and having fun at the same time, there's nothing to worry about. You know what you're doing better than anyone else does. Likewise, nobody should get angry with other players, because it's a safe assumption to make that everyone's doing their best and their next run will be better. If people are getting angry with you when you are trying to improve, then they have no right to be angry. Don't worry about what they think of you.

It isn't about meeting other people's standards, but meeting your own, and then raising the bar each time. That's really the important thing to do, to proceed at your own pace, not others.


Simple statistics: There are way more Japanese players than English players, so you're far more likely to be in an MPA with more Japanese players when anything happens.

That would go for bad runs too, but less bad runs are had with JP players than EN players.

[Radical Dreamer]

1100 hours is not that much. Played over triple that...

I wasn't aware that the time spent sitting around on the benches in the gate area suddenly translates into meaningful playtime that you can use to judge an entire ship's population. Did Sega recently add a shop that lets you exchange those hours for wisdom points?

Not that I'm saying you do that, of course.

[Shinmarizu]

I also don't see why anyone should worry about meeting other people's standards. As long as you're trying to do your best to improve your equipment and performance and having fun at the same time, there's nothing to worry about. You know what you're doing better than anyone else does. Likewise, nobody should get angry with other players, because it's a safe assumption to make that everyone's doing their best and their next run will be better. If people are getting angry with you when you are trying to improve, then they have no right to be angry. Don't worry about what they think of you.

It isn't about meeting other people's standards, but meeting your own, and then raising the bar each time. That's really the important thing to do, to proceed at your own pace, not others.

Much respect for this.

I have thought about jumping off Ship 2. There have been numerous times where the players around me in a given PUG have driven me insane, but I have to keep reminding myself that the nature of this game is set such that nothing ever goes to plan 100% of the time. The only aspect I can improve upon is my own performance. Gear and skill build are two large factors in this, and there is plenty of information/opinion/data on how to improve both without much difficulty.

I find that the majority of us (as a player community) are struggling to play to some 'lofty standard' set by other people who may have much more time and/or resources than most people. That is a never-ending race that people will simply burn themselves out trying to keep pace with.

IMO, to continue playing this game angry and salty is just as bad as playing this game uninformed. There will always be people better off than you, and worse off than you. Just play to your best and strive to improve; or at least enjoy this game.

[Vintasticvin]

Been hanging out on Ship 10 this past weekend. So far its been really quiet peaceful.... And ronery but its nice to get away from the madness of ship 2.

[Edson Drake]

Much respect for this.

I have thought about jumping off Ship 2. There have been numerous times where the players around me in a given PUG have driven me insane, but I have to keep reminding myself that the nature of this game is set such that nothing ever goes to plan 100% of the time. The only aspect I can improve upon is my own performance. Gear and skill build are two large factors in this, and there is plenty of information/opinion/data on how to improve both without much difficulty.

I find that the majority of us (as a player community) are struggling to play to some 'lofty standard' set by other people who may have much more time and/or resources than most people. That is a never-ending race that people will simply burn themselves out trying to keep pace with.

IMO, to continue playing this game angry and salty is just as bad as playing this game uninformed. There will always be people better off than you, and worse off than you. Just play to your best and strive to improve; or at least enjoy this game.

People get salty because more often than not runs go bad or drag along when people aren't geared enough or just keep dying, lowering the DPS since around 3~4 people stop just to revive someone.

Carrying also gets tiring after a while, people should hold their own weight in a battle. It's true that you should worry about your own self and not the others, and usually people get very offended when people point out their gear. It's not cool to have someone saying that your gear is crap, I've been there, so I know the feeling well.

But really it isn't too much trouble to soul/powerIII/spiritaIII units/weapons now isn't it? So why there are still people walking with +6 weapons and +2 Vardha/Lightning kitty units? Those same people are walking with +20 mil hairstyles, expensive costumes, accessories and have all lobby actions unlocked. Granted, it's not as bad as before, but you still see them around.

It's their business not mine, but when runs go bad, it makes you think.