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Kiyumi
Jan 9, 2015, 04:28 PM
Is it hard for you to transition from melee > range > tech etc? What was it like for you when you first tried a new class type? For some of you, its probably as easy as switching at the class counter.

I have Hu/Fi/Br all at 75, and yesterday I tried for the first time to play Gu/Ra. And I felt like the worst noob in the world. It was terrible. I tried to do the weak bullet chain combo thing, and then I kept putting the chain in the middle of the guys body, or on his foot, or whatever. Then I couldnt shoot it, then I got knocked all over the place and all my chains expired. I couldnt even switch my PAs and press all the buttons in the right order. I then tried to fight a Bal Rodos at Facility with rifle, and I got hit literally every single attack he did. I cant step, I cant block, like wtf how do you guys do it?

Was everything such a disaster for you if you tried something new? I feel like range and tech have similar playstyles but Ive never tried tech so Im not sure.

Are Force players destined to be only tech players, etc?

strikerhunter
Jan 9, 2015, 04:32 PM
Transition between melee > range > tech? Meh, it just came to me after an hour of practice.

Selphea
Jan 9, 2015, 04:59 PM
Try starting one step at a time considering you have 3 classes capped. Ra/Hu first to familiarize with Weak Bullet, Weak Hit Advance's weak points and standing in one spot with Standing Snipe while having Hunter defenses to cover you, then Gu/Hu to familiarize with Zero Range, High Time and Chain Trigger, then go Gu/Ra.

Gu/Ra itself is a high effort/high reward combination; you can get amazing damage if you do things right, but if you do things wrong you can actually get no damage from any of your passives. For example, hitting a non-weak point at mid range while moving and getting hit with an infection core, so there's a bit of learning curve there. Hunter helps when starting out because at least you get a baseline damage boost just for using JA.

With Facility Rodos, I think the idea is to use a faraway turret until he lies down and says "Aaaah", then do 20-chain and feed him 4x air Satellite Aim, so that's more of a strategy thing. Anyway Rifle can hit it safely outside of its range.

But to answer the question, I like different things about different attack types. SATK classes usually have easy conditions for their damage and easy to use weapons. RATK has high burst with conditions and TATK has auto aiming attacks, easy AoE and big damage. And I technically main a hybrid with all 3... *points to sig*

TheszNuts
Jan 9, 2015, 05:09 PM
Its incredibly advantageous to be able to transition between the different styles that each class demands, biggest advantage is that you can readjust to cover weaknesses in the party/mpa. Like for EQs, no one would complain if you were to swap out to RA for weak bullet control.

LonelyGaruga
Jan 9, 2015, 05:58 PM
Is it hard for you to transition from melee > range > tech etc? What was it like for you when you first tried a new class type? For some of you, its probably as easy as switching at the class counter.

Part of it is being naturally comfortable for you to do. Part of it is just practicing until it becomes naturally comfortable. Some people need less practice than others, but anyone can play any class with sufficient practice, and it's pretty unusual to just pick up a class and play it flawlessly on the first go.

Personally, I think melee is the easiest to play simply by being the least limited in terms of playstyle. Best mobility, majority of attacks are strong, not as reliant on equipment as other classes, high HP to cover mistakes, ability to guard, many super armored attacks...lots of stuff that other classes don't have. So it makes sense that going from melee to ranged or tech would be harder, but with practice, it's something that can be dealt with. Just gotta learn how best to take advantage of your class' options.

Kiyumi
Jan 9, 2015, 06:34 PM
Try starting one step at a time considering you have 3 classes capped. Ra/Hu first to familiarize with Weak Bullet, Weak Hit Advance's weak points and standing in one spot with Standing Snipe while having Hunter defenses to cover you, then Gu/Hu to familiarize with Zero Range, High Time and Chain Trigger, then go Gu/Ra.

Gu/Ra itself is a high effort/high reward combination; you can get amazing damage if you do things right, but if you do things wrong you can actually get no damage from any of your passives. For example, hitting a non-weak point at mid range while moving and getting hit with an infection core, so there's a bit of learning curve there. Hunter helps when starting out because at least you get a baseline damage boost just for using JA.

With Facility Rodos, I think the idea is to use a faraway turret until he lies down and says "Aaaah", then do 20-chain and feed him 4x air Satellite Aim, so that's more of a strategy thing. Anyway Rifle can hit it safely outside of its range.

But to answer the question, I like different things about different attack types. SATK classes usually have easy conditions for their damage and easy to use weapons. RATK has high burst with conditions and TATK has auto aiming attacks, easy AoE and big damage. And I technically main a hybrid with all 3... *points to sig*

Ah that is some nice advice. I noticed Gu is somewhat similar to melee because there are a bunch of striking moves and I do at least 2x damage if Im up in the monster's face. So Gu/Hu is probably the easiest transition in style. I saw some videos you linked in the Gu thread that were helpful.

Gu/Bo...? How does that work?


Its incredibly advantageous to be able to transition between the different styles that each class demands, biggest advantage is that you can readjust to cover weaknesses in the party/mpa. Like for EQs, no one would complain if you were to swap out to RA for weak bullet control.

Ive noticed every time the TD MPA has a lot of Rangers and Forces everything goes fast. Lots of Bravers and Hunters is slowwww. Feels like the weakness is melee classes ):


Part of it is being naturally comfortable for you to do. Part of it is just practicing until it becomes naturally comfortable. Some people need less practice than others, but anyone can play any class with sufficient practice, and it's pretty unusual to just pick up a class and play it flawlessly on the first go.

Personally, I think melee is the easiest to play simply by being the least limited in terms of playstyle. Best mobility, majority of attacks are strong, not as reliant on equipment as other classes, high HP to cover mistakes, ability to guard, many super armored attacks...lots of stuff that other classes don't have. So it makes sense that going from melee to ranged or tech would be harder, but with practice, it's something that can be dealt with. Just gotta learn how best to take advantage of your class' options.

Well this is true. I probably shouldnt try to copy something I saw out of a video and expect to be able to do it perfectly the first time. It worked before when I copied melee stuff, but for that I know what Im doing.

Yeah it feels like ranged classes take more skill after I actually tried doing it since I couldnt pick up and play like I did with katana back in the day. I have newfound respect for all those Gu/Ra 1shotting stuff.

Stormwalker
Jan 9, 2015, 07:30 PM
There are a number of things about the ranged classes that you only learn either by trial and error, or by someone telling you, or just by having a tactical mindset to start with (which most players don't).

Things like:
- "Don't shoot weak bullet when you're moving. Moving makes your shots scatter more and thus you're more likely to hit the wrong thing and waste your WB."
- "On large bosses, don't just use WB when you want. Wait until the party is in a good position to take advantage of it. Putting WB on Ragne's front leg while the party is clustered around the back only hurts the party's DPS."
- "Chain Trigger is a royal pain in the butt, and when you first start using it you should keep your chains relatively small until you get practiced with it. Then you can work on longer chains for more damage."
- "Keep an eye on boss behaviors and look for appropriate moments to use WB and CT - you don't want your WB on cooldown when Dark Vibrace moons the multiparty."
- "Keep an eye on boss behaviors and know when they are about to move. You don't want to shoot WB at Banther right as he jumps at you."

And so on.

It's not really that ranged classes themselves are any more difficult than melee classes. It's more that WB and CT are finicky abilities and maximizing them requires a certain amount of paying attention to what you are doing.

Also, with Ranger, there is the fact that positioning of the mob is crucial to a number of your abilities, especially when mobbing. Which launcher PA is the best one depends on things like how far away the mob is and how densely packed. This is something that really only comes from experimenting with the various PA's and understanding how their area of effect is shaped (not to mention details like whether something targets top-down or bottom-up).

It's really just a matter of practice.

Agent Falco
Jan 9, 2015, 07:54 PM
Cannot say i have any issues switching between melee and ranged. Honestly once you're used to ranged its no different in difficulty than playing melee however i can see the strict frames of the dive roll to be an annoyance for most. for the block issue i tend to carry a melee weapon that can block and put it in one of my 6 slots.

Also like the others said its incredibly handy to be able to switch to a class a mpa needs if necessary.

Selphea
Jan 9, 2015, 08:41 PM
Gu/Bo...? How does that work?

About as strange as it sounds :wacko:

It all started because I hated mobbing with TMGs. Back when Perfect Keeper required 100%, I ran Gu/Bo with rainbow crafted TMGs for Zondeel and Megiverse. But even with Zondeel, mobbing still felt slow. Then a friend suggested I should craft cross class DBs. I was thinking "are you crazy?" but I did it anyway because Add Class Gunner was cheap and mobbing was that bad. 'sides, I already had a pure Dex Bouncer Mag.

The difference was like night and day.

So things just kind of went from there. After that came the rainbow set, then SATK units, then a Gunner tree built to support Dual Blade damage rather than TMGs (High Time/Perfect Keeper/Aerial Advance/Full Chain), then some experimenting with Chain Trigger and PBF. Now I'm trying out Anga/Vinc/Mutation/Spirita affixing to switch between both weapons freely.

Right now it's my favorite combination because it's been effective so far at handling both bosses and mobs, no one's written a book about it yet and I'm still learning something new every time I play it.

Kiyumi
Jan 9, 2015, 09:55 PM
About as strange as it sounds :wacko:

It all started because I hated mobbing with TMGs. Back when Perfect Keeper required 100%, I ran Gu/Bo with rainbow crafted TMGs for Zondeel and Megiverse. But even with Zondeel, mobbing still felt slow. Then a friend suggested I should craft cross class DBs. I was thinking "are you crazy?" but I did it anyway because Add Class Gunner was cheap and mobbing was that bad. 'sides, I already had a pure Dex Bouncer Mag.

The difference was like night and day.

So things just kind of went from there. After that came the rainbow set, then SATK units, then a Gunner tree built to support Dual Blade damage rather than TMGs (High Time/Perfect Keeper/Aerial Advance/Full Chain), then some experimenting with Chain Trigger and PBF. Now I'm trying out Anga/Vinc/Mutation/Spirita affixing to switch between both weapons freely.

Right now it's my favorite combination because it's been effective so far at handling both bosses and mobs, no one's written a book about it yet and I'm still learning something new every time I play it.

Wait if youre doing that, what is the point of Gu main? The damage boosts in basically every other class are superior if youre not using TMGs, and theres a lot of useless stuff in the Gu tree for you.

Selphea
Jan 9, 2015, 09:59 PM
It's Chain Trigger.

Like lets say you're fighting Rockbear. You pop Showtime, then switch to DBs, activate PBF then Chain. Throw 3 times, Destruct Wing - Heavenly Kite - Justice Crow = Dead Rockbear.

On breakables like Dragon Ex it'd be PBF, break part, Chain Trigger and throw 4 times, Wing-Kite-Kite = dead Dragon.

On Mizer you don't need to wait for it to expose its weak point. Just PBF and chain its main body until say, 30-Chain (I was using 20 TMG Chain + Julius N for Tundra XQ stage 5 farming on Lv60 Mizer; used PBF on Malmoth) then do your finish.

On Rodos, Showtime, harpoon, TPS mode, PBF, Chain, hit mouth and Chain Finish = dead Rodos etc.

I haven't nailed every boss down so I haven't done a boss rush video yet :(

Rakurai
Jan 9, 2015, 10:38 PM
The only melee class I've played extensively is BO with jet boots, and had only been using techs or ranged up until then.

I had a hard time until I realized that the shift action is a dodge.

suzaku0zero0
Jan 9, 2015, 10:58 PM
If ur started from Hu/fi, go Gu/Hu and treat it like using a hu
Treat show time like a time limited fury stance, and ud be great for mobbing

Z-0
Jan 9, 2015, 11:30 PM
Ive noticed every time the TD MPA has a lot of Rangers and Forces everything goes fast. Lots of Bravers and Hunters is slowwww. Feels like the weakness is melee classes ):
~Episode 3 "Balancing"~

Right now the metagame is Force plus helpers. For anything you want to do quickly, you always want about 9 Forces, with a Ranger and maybe a Bouncer, unless it's a pure boss quest, in which GuBr currently does it the best until it gets nerfed, then we'll probably go back to FiBo being the best (both with WB support, obviously), but hoo knows!

In pretty much every aspect of the game that's about going fast, Force is king, as nothing can keep up with the versatility and power that it has. Maybe one day it'll get a nerf, but it's stayed on top for 6 months so far, which is longer than Shunka Braver did, so for some reason I doubt it's happening.

On topic, I personally have no problem playing everything.