Just my thoughts about PSO 2 vs PSO 1

[Defend]

Firstly, nearly 14 years with the same account! That's pretty neat, kudos to this website.

I played PSO 2 a bit in the beta, left it, and recently came back. Now that's it has been fleshed out more, and I'm playing more, I feel like having a little whine about things I miss from PSO 1. This post is no big deal really; I'm not majorly bothered, just feel like sharing my thoughts.

I'll try to prevent this from being a post of "It would be better if they did X", and will aim to stick to only pointing out differences that are simple and clear (to me).

Total wall of text by the way. Sorry about that.




1. Not dropping items.

Obviously if we could put items on the ground the game would be better. And obviously that would damage their freemium business model. So the reasons are understandable, but it's still a huge shame that it's gone. It's not the trading aspect that I miss; it's the tangible nature of stuff that it brought to the game. While this list isn't meant to be in any sort of order this would definitely be my number 1 thing that was lost in PSO 2.


2. Balance in fields

Wow. I'm sure some might say this is subjective, but to me it doesn't feel that way. In balancing the combat and enemies, PSO 1 was done very well. I don't say that in hindsight either; back in the day I would remark on how well PSO 1's basic game plays out from Normal to V Hard.

But PSO 2 just blows my mind. A RA with a launcher just deals so much damage from the first step on Naberius. Right from level 1 the RA can pull off multiple one-hit KOs with a crit, and this just carries on for I don't know how long. Now think of a level 1 HUcast with his strongest attack in PSO 1. The difference is huge, and remember that's the HUcast using melee, single-target combat. In PSO 1, when you get to the point of one-hitting things, you feel good. In PSO 2, that's level 1.

On top of that, your mobility is so high and the fields so large that nothing threatens you at all. It's common to go into a quest or EQ much higher than your character and just never die. Now think of the same thing in PSO 1. Or of getting past the last Hildebears in early forest runs, or trying to deal with the swarms in Ruins. Sinows... remember the Sinows.


3. Balance in bosses

The bosses go completely the other way and arrive as literal HP sinks. As a result, the jump from enemies to bosses is just hard to understand. If I was at a more appropriate strength for the normal enemies, the boss would take even longer. If my strength was more appropriate for the boss, the level itself would just be an even greater number of 1 hit KOs.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying the bosses are too hard. Actually they're not threatening enough. The problem is that they're too slow a battle. If 5 minutes of fighting have passed and neither side is on the brink of death and no players are feeling threatened, things turn dull. The same fight could be had in a less repetitive way. Several times in PSO 2 I've arrived at a boss for the first time, and killed it after a very long period of feeling not much of anything at all. Compare that to the first time you reach the Dragon at level 3 or 4, or De Rol, or basically any boss in PSO 1. If you would need 15 minutes to kill a boss in PSO 1, the fight will definitely be over in less time than that because you'd be dead.

So in short:
PSO 1: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's easy for the boss to kill you.
PSO 2: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's still hard for the boss to kill you.

This could just be a RA issue in PSO 2. Half of the problem is the freedom to totally run away from danger. Again, something PSO 1 handled well with its arenas.

And perhaps the bosses are simply designed for multiple players to be fighting them, reducing the HP issue at least. But still, no-one's worrying about dying. Moon Atomizers are so rarely necessary that I honestly wonder if people carry them.

[ All these comments about balance are referring to a RAcaseal with nothing special. I'm about to equip the standard gun that my R-ATK will allow, my mag supplies only about 7 R-ATK, and I wear whatever armour looks the coolest because defense seems to not really be a thing. ]


4. Detached reality looting.

Please repliers, stop telling me how PSO 1's looting would mean unfair rare distribution. I know. I talked about this a few lines down starting with "Admittedly...". I personally miss that looting but in this OP I did not wish it back, I said something else.

Similar to number 1 up above, I'm a little saddened to know that we aren't all sharing the same bits of loot all over the ground. Yeah there are arguments that support it, such as focussed attacking and fairer looting, but for me the pros don't outweigh the cons (and I was even a RA). Basically, it removes a line of interaction between players... less that says we are sharing the same world.

Admittedly when it comes to rares, for most people PSO 1's approach simply will not fly. I totally understand that. But certainly a hybrid model could have been devised also that maintained the shared world nature of PSO 1, with the fairer rares distribution of PSO 2. That would have been much better, imo.


5. Party chat in lobbies.

Simply the way the Arks ship is almost always completely silent, a problem PSO 1 didn't have. I am guessing this is because everyone is talking in their party channels. I'd simply prefer it if Party chat was actually disabled on the main ship; which admittedly would mean having to find a way to explain that to the players.



I think there are more things but I'll leave it there for now, for fear that I'll get too detailed and lose track of the aim of this post, which is to only point out the large things I feel PSO 1 definitely and simply did better.

[Selphea]

Yea PSO2 is different from PSO1. I think it takes more steps forward than back. I'm actually okay with the looting after having dealt with ninja-looters and Need spammers in other MMOs. That said, I feel some things are indeed done very backwards, although they're incidentally not issues found in your list.

The game is pretty easy, but if you stick around till Level 70, the Ult Quests might give you that PSO1 feel you are looking for. Unfortunately, their drops are done very badly and the only enemy worth killing there is Anga.

As for boss balance, I think the issue is more to do with your lack of gear than anything else. Bosses shouldn't take so long, especially as a Ranger which is like, #1 solo boss killer in the game. But yea, that only makes them even easier. You can solo the MPA bosses like Falz Loser if you're into that though.

Party chat is a cultural thing. It's a Japanese game and a lot of people are afraid of sounding like baka gaijin. If this was the official English version, people will talk more. But otherwise, even the randoms that join my party don't say a single word. It's kind of creepy really. Go to Ship 2 Block 20 if you want to hear people speaking.

[Edson Drake]

Long post, I'll reply to 2 points:


4. Detached reality looting.

Similar to number 1 up above, I'm a little saddened to know that we aren't all sharing the same bits of loot all over the ground. Yeah there are arguments that support it, such as focussed attacking and fairer looting, but I think the pros don't outweigh the cons. Basically, it removes a line of interaction between players... less that says we sharing the same world.

Unlike number 1, this could have been applied to PSO 2 without breaking their business model.

Admittedly, when it comes to rares, for most people PSO 1's approach simply will not fly. I totally understand that. If forced to choose between PSO 1 and 2's style, I personally would say 1 all the way. But certainly a hybrid model could have been devised also that maintained the shared world nature of PSO 1, with the fairer rares distribution of PSO 2. That would have been much better, imo.

It's fair to every player as you mentioned and helps with envy. Rangers and Forces wouldn't get crap since the melee classes would nab everything like in PSO1.

Can you imagine how infuriating would it be if Rangers and Forces would blast the hell out of a boss so that weak HU and BR would get the loot just by being close? All the work done by the RA and FO and the HU and Br get the loot.

But note that you'll still see your friend getting that Elder Pain from Hunar and you that Alva Sword +3. :P


5. Party chat in lobbies.

Simply the way the Arks ship is almost always completely silent, a problem PSO 1 didn't have. I am guessing this is because everyone is talking in their party channels. I'd simply prefer it if Party chat was actually disabled on the main ship; which admittedly would mean having to find a way to explain that to the players.

I welcomed this actually, it's best to keep conversations in private. But note that it's Japan, a culture where it's very bad manners to speak in cellphones while on trains. While it does happen, people frown at people that do this, the Japanese don't like people that don't respect each other's space, and by using /all chat, you're disrespecting their personal space with your private messages.

As silly as it sounds, I agree with the Japanese, there are a lot of stuff I'd rather not to read around lobbies

[Defend]

Yea PSO2 is different from PSO1. I think it takes more steps forward than back.Yeah I can agree with this in general. Actually I'm quite happy with how well PSO 2 fills the role of "sequel". It advances heaps, but holds onto its roots. Lots of throwbacks but it doesn't lean on them, and lots of stylistic similarities. They could have called PSU "PSO 2" back then, but the real PSO 2 requires no interpretation. Nice to see such that such a bona-fide sequel can still be created despite the massive hiatus.

You've both said pretty much the same points so one reply fits all.

For the chatter, mmm I didn't think of the cultural difference. I didn't know/forgot about block 20 also, so I'll check that out.

As for the looting, well we just have different tastes on that. The issue you raised, Edson, was something I often pointed out in PSO 1 as a RA. HUs got the rares first. But that's why I would be happy to see a hybrid model. Anything I suggest would take a little ironing out before sounding good to all though.

My gear is definitely not speeding up the bosses, but then mmm the huge gap between bosses and minions is only made worse. It's hard to imagine that I'm supposed to chew through enemies even faster. Meanwhile the lack of threat on the whole remains. However that bit is probably more a product of modern day gaming, than it is a PSO 2 issue.

Interested to hear the things that you notice, Selphia. Oh I thought of another one.

6. Telepipes!

Not a big deal at all. I am yet to see ANYONE use a telepipe in PSO 2 for obvious reason. Regardless, PSO 1 telepipes are superior to PSO 2 telepipes in every way.
Fun PSO pastime: knowing a friend is hammering for the rare drop and throwing a telepipe at their feet. Up they goooo...

[wefwq]

1. Not dropping items.Storage space issue, and also it may make player get much more understanding with what kind of item they get.
Able to be solved with popup notification, but then again... storage space limit.


2. Balance in fieldsYour wish are basically already granted with the recent UQ, every mob takes a ton of time required to kill, and some player hates it already...


3. Balance in bosses
So in short:
PSO 1: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's easy for the boss to kill you.
PSO 2: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's still hard for the boss to kill.Basically the same as point 3, UQ.


4. Detached reality looting.There's so much jerk running around, why would you want to share loots.
If it's really applied somehow, i sure as hell people will have nightmare about finding a group to play with since lots of people will prefer to lock their room and play with people they know.


5. Party chat in lobbies.I prefer the lobby as is, you probably don't know the "old" B-020 don't you?

[Defend]

There's so much jerk running around, why would you want to share loots.
If it's really applied somehow, i sure as hell people will have nightmare about finding a group to play with since lots of people will prefer to lock their room and play with people they know.
Actually it wasn't such an issue in PSO, even with its no-mercy system of not even sharing rares fairly. Definitely some people complained about it, but there definitely weren't difficulties finding games either, right until the death of the English servers.

The why is simply because it brings many more moments of meaningful player interaction to the game. As I mentioned, a hybrid model would have been nice to offer the best of both worlds.

[Neith]

1. Not dropping items.

Obviously if we could put items on the ground the game would be better. And obviously that would damage their freemium business model. So the reasons are understandable, but it's still a huge shame that it's gone. It's not the trading aspect that I miss; it's the tangible nature of stuff that it brought to the game. While this list isn't meant to be in any sort of order this would definitely be my number 1 thing that was lost in PSO 2.

I think the sole reason for this is so you can't get around the benefits of having Premium. It is sad but in a (ugh) 'free to play' game it can only be expected.



2. Balance in fields

Wow. I'm sure some might say this is subjective, but to me it doesn't feel that way. In balancing the combat and enemies, PSO 1 was done very well. I don't say that in hindsight either; back in the day I would remark on how well PSO 1's basic game plays out from Normal to V Hard.

But PSO 2 just blows my mind. A RA with a launcher just deals so much damage from the first step on Naberius. Right from level 1 the RA can pull off multiple one-hit KOs with a crit, and this just carries on for I don't know how long. Now think of a level 1 HUcast with his strongest attack in PSO 1. The difference is huge, and remember that's the HUcast using melee, single-target combat. In PSO 1, when you get to the point of one-hitting things, you feel good. In PSO 2, that's level 1.

On top of that, your mobility is so high and the fields so large that nothing threatens you at all. It's common to go into a quest or EQ much higher than your character and just never die. Now think of the same thing in PSO 1. Or of getting past the last Hildebears in early forest runs, or trying to deal with the swarms in Ruins. Sinows... remember the Sinows.

To be honest, everything under Super Hard is an EXP farming simulator. Nothing even remotely poses a threat. Really the only purpose of lower difficulties is for something to do while you grind to Super Hard, and later Ultimate/Extra Hard.

As for the Emergency Quests being a cakewalk, this (in my opinion) is a problem with Multi Party Areas. I think MPAs should be reserved for 'super bosses' (things like Falz/Magatsu etc) and maybe Ultimate- not for anything else. 4 players wreck everything badly enough, you don't need 12 at all. I would however say that I would prefer Ultimate if it was a single-party mission and the monster health was lowered a bit to compensate. Because it's a 'collect points' mission and also because JP farm Anga Fandarge and nothing else it can be a total pain getting a party to run the mission for the other drops. I wish it was single party so you could freely run it whenever you liked, rather than hope there's a couple of people you can get a MPA with.



3. Balance in bosses

I would reserve judgement on bosses until you've tried Ultimate. In Ultimate their HP is ridiculous and they do hit hard (only the fact it's a MPA lets it down). As far as bosses taking a while, you might want to look at some videos on Youtube. Once you have the right skills you can bring down most bosses within a couple of minutes easily enough, under a minute for some. I do agree that most bosses aren't very threatening though. Even Dark Falz Luther is somewhat of a joke now that people know how to beat him.



4. Detached reality looting.

Similar to number 1 up above, I'm a little saddened to know that we aren't all sharing the same bits of loot all over the ground. Yeah there are arguments that support it, such as focussed attacking and fairer looting, but I think the pros don't outweigh the cons. Basically, it removes a line of interaction between players... less that says we sharing the same world.

Unlike number 1, this could have been applied to PSO 2 without breaking their business model.

Admittedly, when it comes to rares, for most people PSO 1's approach simply will not fly. I totally understand that. If forced to choose between PSO 1 and 2's style, I personally would say 1 all the way. But certainly a hybrid model could have been devised also that maintained the shared world nature of PSO 1, with the fairer rares distribution of PSO 2. That would have been much better, imo.

I'd hate PSO2 with the shared drop system. I wouldn't trust people enough to share out rares :lol: The current system I think is good as it tailors drops towards your class a bit more (Tech discs seem to drop more often when you play a Force/Techer etc). The other problem with PSO1's system if you applied it to PSO2 is what happens when there's a PSE Burst. I cannot imagine the chaos that would happen trying to get rare drops in the middle of a PSE Burst knowing that anyone else could swipe it from under your nose.

The caveat is that I WOULD like to see a return of Section IDs. I loved how each ID had its own drop pool. If you could apply that to PSO2's system (so in effect everyone would have a different 'Section ID' active each game, providing each player with a different drop pool) I'd love it.



5. Party chat in lobbies.

Simply the way the Arks ship is almost always completely silent, a problem PSO 1 didn't have. I am guessing this is because everyone is talking in their party channels. I'd simply prefer it if Party chat was actually disabled on the main ship; which admittedly would mean having to find a way to explain that to the players.

As mentioned, I think the only reason that no-one talks in lobbies is because of Japanese culture. It's extremely rare to see Japanese players talk in public chat. Add to that the fact that we're not even meant to be on their servers and I can understand why people would be quiet (aside from some blocks where people seemingly don't give a shit) :disapprove:

I want to point out that I played PSO GC and PSOBB for years and loved it. It did many things brilliantly and it's quite nostalgic. I know I'll never feel the same about PSO2 as it feels too 'clinical' but it is a relatively enjoyable game. PSO is very dated now; I find it hard to go back to and although it had some great ideas, some are best left in PSO and simply wouldn't work in the context of PSO2.

[Defend]

I agree with pretty much all you said. But, and no disrespect to you or anyone, it seems that even though I acknowledged that PSO 1's system wouldn't fly in the OP and every reply since, I keep getting that explained to me anyway. I've mentioned three times that a hybrid model could bring the good from both worlds, but it's as if that writing is invisible. We wouldn't need shared rares to enjoy generally shared loot.

[isCasted]

1. Not dropping items.
You can actually drop recovery items, so that's something. Not that it's actually useful in most of the game. It still helps in quests like XQ, Abduction or DF Loser (at least used to, before he became too easy).


2. Balance in fields
Before EP3 update lv1 characters actually took a while to kill things with standard gear. After that there came skill tree changes, ultimately buffing nearly all PAs in order to balance endgame. I made a new character after that update and I felt that there's not much difference between normally geared lv1 playing on Normal and properly geared lv65 playing on Super Hard. I guess game just shows you right away what you should be aiming for?

And, as mentioned, Ultimate enemies are much more buffed, but one important fact - that quest (second one isn't coming for a loooong while) are simply not designed for solo/single-party play. There's also EQ-only XH quest, where regular mobs have really large HP pools (too large, IMO) but it's actually playable for a single person.


3. Balance in bosses

PSO 1: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's easy for the boss to kill you.
PSO 2: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's still hard for the boss to kill you.

Says the Ranger, lol. Well, you don't have Weak Bullet yet...

On Super Hard boss can easily OHKO you if you don't have HP affixes on your gear, especially rare infected ones. I remember fully-infected titled lv70 Crys Draal dealing 1110 damage to me with his diving attack (it's not even a killer move, just a basic one). RABRcaesal won't even reach 700 base HP at that level, I believe.

However, Ranger's Weak Bullet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW-FRJEhA7w

Actually, most class combos deal with SH bosses fast enough with proper setup. Bosses become a great HP sink again in XH, and in Ultimate it's just a whole new level.


4. Detached reality looting.
If I was given a dollar when my party member gets something I wanted...While I don't like concept of loot rushing, ability to share rare loot on pickup would be really neat.


5. Party chat in lobbies.
B20. You'll realise how wrong you are.

[Punisher106]

Hate to break it to you, but a lot of what you said I welcome with open arms. Being able to loot what I see, having a nice, quiet lobby, and the high mobility making it easier to avoid attacks, is all wonderful. Also, in PSO2, there are takes on the PSO1 Episode 1 bosses, but made even more epic.

Dragon - Vol Dragon
De Rol Le - Bal Rodos
Vol Opt - Big Varder
Dark Falz - Dark Falz Elder

And in a way...

Olga Flow - Dark Falz Loser.

The high mobility, the story really fleshing out your character's destiny, unlike PSU, and the rather diverse styles of combat, compared to before, are all awesome. I love this game. And in the past, the PS series has been notorious for monster reskins, where in PSO2, they're minimal. The reskins that DO exist are for good reason, and some that seem to be reskins sort of just have similar animations, but have very different attacks. I also love the Darker's Den. Being abducted during TAs, and trying to fight your way out of your little imprisonment, getting cloned at the end, is always a thrill.

[untrustful]

I too appreciate the minimal reskinned enemies.

[RadiantLegend]

What I really miss the most is the atmosphere. You just don't get the ruins, jungle, seabed ish is about to go down feel.
Darker den with creepy music would be a start.

[LordKaiser]

I strongly disagree with point #4

The current loot system prevents a lot drama and that's a line of interaction that I can be without. There's no more people claiming that someone stole a item from them or that someone in fact just takes something you need unfairly. The pros do outweigh the cons fully.

Also someone posted this here long time ago.

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?126659-Tessa-STOLE-my-Lame-D-argent

[Flaoc]

I strongly disagree with point #4

The current loot system prevents a lot drama and that's a line of interaction that I can be without. There's no more people claiming that someone stole a item from them or that someone in fact just takes something you need unfairly. The pros do outweigh the cons fully.

Also someone posted this here long time ago.

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?126659-Tessa-STOLE-my-Lame-D-argent

and this is why i was a solo player on bb.. glad sega got rid of that awful ninja loot system

[Defend]

@Kaiser
I acknowledged and discussed that in the OP.

@Punisher
Well your wrong opinion is wrong. XP Just kidding. Understandable that some prefer those things.

I admire PSO 2's combat. The timing, healing and diving all fit really well. Often gets a bit too showboaty but at least when it does become a fight for survival it easily plays better than any other action RPG I've tried. However, there's "avoiding attacks" and there's "having the option to stay out of danger completely while still in combat". The latter does indeed make it easier to do the former and if you prefer that, all the better for you. In this paragraph I'm just highlighting the difference. And I had never thought of it until PSO 2, but PSO 1 shows a deliberate management of how free the player is to run away (which results in battles that I personally think are better).


@Radiant
Mmm the levels really are different kettles of fish aren't they. I think I see what you mean, but I haven't experienced all of PSO 2's environments yet.

I think Forest (PSO 2) is quite a great stage though; a large part of why I enjoy it is the respect it tips to PSO 1's Forest. I think they got the atmosphere right in that one at least.

@isCasted
Interesting that there is something I can actually drop!

It's a shame things have to come down to one-hit KOs at all. There was one thing that PSO did better than PSO ver 2.0, and it was this. In PSO v1.0, 20-hit KOs were legit. In v2.0, they changed it so that if you could survive one hit you were a god. Actually PSO 2 is much better than PSO 1 ver 2.0 in this regard specifically.

[Chrysheight]

Well like was said, PSO2 is a different game. It's like comparing apples to oranges. I would have liked to see more things improved upon though. I'd really like to see a Max Attack G style quest for PSO2 that brought back classic area designs.

I also miss max starting among other things.

[Triple_S]

1. Not dropping items.

Obviously if we could put items on the ground the game would be better. And obviously that would damage their freemium business model. So the reasons are understandable, but it's still a huge shame that it's gone. It's not the trading aspect that I miss; it's the tangible nature of stuff that it brought to the game. While this list isn't meant to be in any sort of order this would definitely be my number 1 thing that was lost in PSO 2.

Yeah, sucks, but as you said it's necessary due to the business model.



2. Balance in fields

Wow. I'm sure some might say this is subjective, but to me it doesn't feel that way. In balancing the combat and enemies, PSO 1 was done very well. I don't say that in hindsight either; back in the day I would remark on how well PSO 1's basic game plays out from Normal to V Hard.

But PSO 2 just blows my mind. A RA with a launcher just deals so much damage from the first step on Naberius. Right from level 1 the RA can pull off multiple one-hit KOs with a crit, and this just carries on for I don't know how long. Now think of a level 1 HUcast with his strongest attack in PSO 1. The difference is huge, and remember that's the HUcast using melee, single-target combat. In PSO 1, when you get to the point of one-hitting things, you feel good. In PSO 2, that's level 1.

On top of that, your mobility is so high and the fields so large that nothing threatens you at all. It's common to go into a quest or EQ much higher than your character and just never die. Now think of the same thing in PSO 1. Or of getting past the last Hildebears in early forest runs, or trying to deal with the swarms in Ruins. Sinows... remember the Sinows.

Funnily enough, the game was a fair bit more challenging in Beta. Enemies took a decent amount of hits to kill when at-level, but not too much, and being hit hurt and reminded you to always be aware without outright one-shotting you like the game does now in later difficulties. Part of what makes the game easier is the fact that you're far more mobile and there's not some awful dice roll on if the saber that sliced through the enemy actually hit or not. The other part is that in general, so long as you keep up on your gear, you can take some good punishment and dish out far more.

That being said, go back and replay PSO. It's actually not that hard at all once you know the game's mechanics, aside from the accuracy system which is artificial difficulty in an action RPG anyway. For example, you mention later that in PSO2 you can simply run from danger. Well PSO1 is just as bad outside of boss arenas (which PSO2 has as well), because you can just waltz past a door and you completely lose all the aggro on you while the enemies reset to their starting positions. This allowed characters to cheese damn near everything with ranged combat. Plus there's the tactic of using only the first two attacks for most melee weapons and then backing off, because it's often the third attack that has the most lag (only use it when you know it'll kill and something else isn't going to slap you).



3. Balance in bosses

The bosses go completely the other way and arrive as literal HP sinks. As a result, the jump from enemies to bosses is just hard to understand. If I was at a more appropriate strength for the normal enemies, the boss would take even longer. If my strength was more appropriate for the boss, the level itself would just be an even greater number of 1 hit KOs.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying the bosses are too hard. Actually they're not threatening enough. The problem is that they're too slow a battle. If 5 minutes of fighting have passed and neither side is on the brink of death and no players are feeling threatened, things turn dull. The same fight could be had in a less repetitive way. Several times in PSO 2 I've arrived at a boss for the first time, and killed it after a very long period of feeling not much of anything at all. Compare that to the first time you reach the Dragon at level 3 or 4, or De Rol, or basically any boss in PSO 1. If you would need 15 minutes to kill a boss in PSO 1, the fight will definitely be over in less time than that because you'd be dead.

So in short:
PSO 1: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's easy for the boss to kill you.
PSO 2: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's still hard for the boss to kill you.

This could just be a RA issue in PSO 2. Half of the problem is the freedom to totally run away from danger. Again, something PSO 1 handled well with its arenas.

And perhaps the bosses are simply designed for multiple players to be fighting them, reducing the HP issue at least. But still, no-one's worrying about dying. Moon Atomizers are so rarely necessary that I honestly wonder if people carry them.

[ All these comments about balance are referring to a RAcaseal with nothing special. I'm about to equip the standard gun that my R-ATK will allow, my mag supplies only about 7 R-ATK, and I wear whatever armour looks the coolest because defense seems to not really be a thing. ]

Bosses can dish out some serious damage if you aren't careful. Of course, I could just be undergeared, but in Very Hard my Br/Ra can get one-shot or two-shot very easily. As for their health, you need to make sure you're playing to the strengths of your class. Rangers need to be targeting boss weak points with their attacks, including putting Weak Bullet on them whenever possible. A boss should not take you long unless you're unfamiliar with your class, or you're just underleveled/undergeared. If it's the latter, you are certain to be crushed by any solid hit from the boss.

As for PSO1... bosses could take a very long time and still result in victory if you know what you're doing and came prepared. De Rol Le can be REALLY freaking annoying in this regard. Falz can be like this, but Falz (especially Form 3) LOVES set damage attacks. PSO1 in general loves set damage attacks which is kind of infuriating really. PSO1's bosses end up being harder than the levels due to that, but it depends on how much HP your character has... but in reality the levels end up being worse simply because they have so many enemies that do basically the same amount of damage. Defense is also freaking stupid in PSO1 because having more can get you killed easier. Ultimate mode does not give mercy invulnerability when hit... unless you're knocked down. If a volley of Baranz missiles hit you and don't knock you down, you're fucking dead. Scariest attack in the game really.



4. Detached reality looting.

Similar to number 1 up above, I'm a little saddened to know that we aren't all sharing the same bits of loot all over the ground. Yeah there are arguments that support it, such as focussed attacking and fairer looting, but I think the pros don't outweigh the cons. Basically, it removes a line of interaction between players... less that says we sharing the same world.

Unlike number 1, this could have been applied to PSO 2 without breaking their business model.

Admittedly, when it comes to rares, for most people PSO 1's approach simply will not fly. I totally understand that. If forced to choose between PSO 1 and 2's style, I personally would say 1 all the way. But certainly a hybrid model could have been devised also that maintained the shared world nature of PSO 1, with the fairer rares distribution of PSO 2. That would have been much better, imo.

Y'know, I get what you're saying, but the shared loot systems of old really just don't mesh well unless you can fully trust those you're playing with. Often, you can't. There's really no way to ensure a truly fair system. Let's look at some ideas that were used instead of a pick-up system:

-Random Distribution/Dice Roll? It's two sets of RNG which can be infuriating. The game rolls to see if it even drops, then it rolls to see who even gets it. Technically everyone gets the same shot at the rare that dropped, but then that rich asshole gets all of them, or the player that would never touch Hunter in their life gets an amazing sword and would rather sell it than give it to someone who needs it. Plus I mean, you still get to see the rare be dropped and then proceed to watch as it is ripped away from you, which sucks.

-Set Order Distribution? Easily manipulated, plus can still lead to the situations above.

-Class-Based Distribution? Oh man, you're on your alt and that sword you really need for your main drops! But you don't get it because you're on your alt, and instead that rich asshole who already has a rainbow set of it gets it again and sells it off.

What we have now is essentially a more fair version of Random Distribution. Yes, the rich asshole who already has everything can still be the only one who gets the item, but the fact that they got the item did not affect your chance at getting the item. It was completely unrelated, and you can only curse your own luck. You are aware that you could have also gotten that item, and no one took that chance from you.



5. Party chat in lobbies.

Simply the way the Arks ship is almost always completely silent, a problem PSO 1 didn't have. I am guessing this is because everyone is talking in their party channels. I'd simply prefer it if Party chat was actually disabled on the main ship; which admittedly would mean having to find a way to explain that to the players.

As people have said, it's mostly a culture thing. PSO1 had Team Chat and the Mail system, which were used a lot as well. I do personally miss the hustle and bustle of a populated lobby from PSO1 and PSU, but I wouldn't say it's something objectively better or even that the silence is a problem.




I think there are more things but I'll leave it there for now, for fear that I'll get too detailed and lose track of the aim of this post, which is to only point out the large things I feel PSO 1 definitely and simply did better.

I know it's all subjective, but I do feel that a fair bit of what you prefer from PSO1 is more nostalgia than anything. I love PSO1, and I do feel certain things were handled better in that game, but I can't really say the above things necessarily fit in with that.


EDIT: Oh, right. PSO1 also was absolutely broken because of weapon specials. Hell, Demon's, and the Sacrificials utterly destroyed the game.

[Achelousaurus]

Defend, I have no clue what you are talking about for the most part and I played PSO1 on and off from 2003 to 2014, clocking 12,000+ hours easily.

First off, everyone get their own drops is perfect. Honestly, there is literally no reason why you should want one drop for everyone unless you enjoy grieving and stealing other people's items.
OR you enjoy seeing other fight about this (like when I called MKB if it drops with 55hit twice just for a jerk to steal it from under my nose, a team member, too).

Anyway, in PSO2 bosses can do down in 1 shot. It's even possible to kill XH Magatsu in 1 minute.
If you take forever killing anything, you are slow.
And 5 minutes is honestly a good time for a boss battle, this isn't just some slightly stronger enemy but a boss, how can you ever appreciate a boss and enjoy the boss fight if it's over in 10 seconds or less?

Demon's special and Dark Flow wave don't come even remotely close to the ridiculousness of WB, CT, Ilbarta or Banish Arrow (probably missed a couple of bigass multipliers).
Sure you could kill stuff fast in PSO1 but you can kill a lot faster in PSO2, in PSO1 nothing had as high HP as some SH and especially XH stuff has and this still can go down almost instantly.

Also, wtf are you doing that bosses can't kill you easily?
You sure you are not doing normal mode as lvl 75?
Cause even Rockbear in SH can easily do 1100 damage with one hit if you get grabbed and there is no way out of the grab.

Anyway you are missing the issue except for the last point.
No one using public chat is a horrible, horrible thing. It's boring, you make far fewer friends and it also extends to mpas where communication is frowned upon, my old team considered it a crime to say anything at all in public chat even trying to coordinate the mpa, which means most peopel don't consider coordinating anything and it's a horrid mess.
Incidentally while jp players tend to not say much in public chat in the lobby, they frequently coordinate in an mpa.

And the other problem is this affecting mpa areas. It's not such a bad feature but the effect is the same as in most mmorpgs, drowning in a sea of strangers.
Most people play alongside each other, not with each other.
It's like riding the bus to school, you recognize 20 faces but no one says a single word to each other except for the odd small clique of friends.

Also, fields and quests are far too short. Outside of maybe XQs and AQs everything only takes a few minutes.
Not to mention the game is FAR more reward oriented than PSO1 so you instanttly get into the mentality that there isn't much of a point in doing something unless it gives a good reward.

As a result you can't easily just join someone else's party (most that do don't say a word the whole quest and if then only hello and goodbye for the very minimum of manners).
XQs and AQs require items, XQs can be hard, especially if you mess up a stage you may face 4 rare bosses with a 90% dmg reduction.
SHAQs require 10 caps which cost 70k a pop, so you can't just randomly do them for fun, unless you have a goal you waste them quickly and that's it. And even with an extended PSE burst you may not get 10 caps (last time the pse burst lasted 6 minutes and I found 6 caps).
Also you want a high risk but because it resets after only 1 week and it can be hard to find people to do shaqs with, it's another reason not to do them unless you want something specific (like a disc only dropping there).

And then EQs, which bind you to a retarded schedule for anything really worth doing, where you can also be sure it's not hard to find a party.

In short, unlike in PSO1 where I'd just join some random party and have fun going through forest to falz or get 3 people or play with friends to clear some fun quest, there is little incentive to do it in PSO2.

[LonelyGaruga]

Also, wtf are you doing that bosses can't kill you easily?
You sure you are not doing normal mode as lvl 75?
Cause even Rockbear in SH can easily do 1100 damage with one hit if you get grabbed and there is no way out of the grab.

Rockbear's grab can be escaped. Damage is a bit exaggerated unless it's level 3 infection, typical damage is closer to the 600-700 range. Well, to be honest, I don't actually know, between the fact that it can be escaped and the fact that it's incredibly easy to dodge, I haven't been hit by it since the first day of playing a melee class. But really, that's the point. It doesn't matter how much damage is done if the attacks don't connect, and Rockbear should never land the grab on a player. Most bosses in general have easy to avoid attacks, so they do in fact have a hard time killing players.

I don't really have any interest in adding to the thread about PSO comparisons because I never played PSO and I'm only really lurking out of curiosity, but this is a completely fair criticism about PSO2. It's easy. Really easy.

[Omega-z]

What Triple_S said about the three idea's of loot hybird system is exactly was added in PSU:AotI and still was looked at poorly. When PSO2's Alpha was worked on separated drop system was the very first thing that was asked. So, it was a very big thing for everyone.

[DeificEpyon]

If they made it so we started sharing the same drops on this game I'd just quit. Like most others in previous games, I've had enough bad experiences with shared drops.

This game's combat is pretty fast-paced, especially in MPA's. I prefer having our own individual drops so I can just pick up stuff indiscriminately and focus on the actual battle.

[Achelousaurus]

Yeah. Just imagine TD3 with shared drops. The very instant a boss is killed people would leave towers about to get destroyed by a horde of Goldie or laser cannons starting to shoot and rush to the rares.

[oratank]

with your gaijin latency. you can say goodbye those drops

[Chigun]

To me PSO2 only really feels like PSO1 when there are a lot of items you can't buy in the player shops. Before the recent release of new 12* weapons and 11* units I was really feeling bored. It becomes a meseta gathering simulator and little else. For this reason I hope they never release 12-star weapon passes 11-star unit passes.

I say this slitting my own throat, since the RNG is never kind to me. :P But PSO has trained me to endure such suffering.

[Defend]

@Omega-z
Interesting to hear that (about the alpha requests).

But what are people's thoughts if rares worked like in PSO 2, while commons worked like in PSO 1? It sounds sad to me that people would ask for 100% of a naturally intuitive system to be changed for the sake of 1% of its content. Because when we remove the issue of rare envy completely, a shared loot brings more meaningful play to a game.

I can understand people cursing at the thought of something being "snatched" away from them, even if that happens via a RNG rather than a tangible yoink. As much as I might support the "realistic" play of shared rares, I can't deny that it makes people less eager to share a level. So that's definitely an important improvement that PSO 1 lacks. Forced to choose one system or the other... it's still a tough call for me. I would say "both please". I really can't decide my personal preference now, except for the hybrid I asked about in this post's first paragraph.

@DeificEpyon
Fair point about being able to focus on the battle.



On this subject, how is the rares system going in PSO 2 overall? Can I get a comparison with DC PSO v2? It's surely a very different beast now for so many reasons... but are rares still just as exciting?



@Triple_S
Actually the points I raised were ones I was trying to ensure were not nostalgia talking. People are posting good responses (and some are positing responses I already wrote :| ), but those 6 things are what I personally saw as better design regardless of game. Above, my preference about looting is changing however.


@Megidolaon
Loot: Your reply is covered in the OP. But as an aside, when you called looting an unfound item stealing, either you had an agreement with your friends and they, not the game, betrayed you. Or you didn't have such an agreement and it was just you setting your expectations up for disappointment. In the latter case I understand the frustration, but not thinking of people as thieves over it. In the former case, that's a positive of the game in that trust was able to exist at all, and just a negative of your friends.

Boss HP: It's good at least that it sounds like the bosses are built for players to really flex their muscles/gear/strategies. But the confusion I feel from the thought of being even stronger, as you suggest, is covered in the OP. Regarding 5 minutes, it looks like you've misunderstood what I was saying there. Five minutes would indeed be a good time for a boss battle. It's when 5 minutes have passed and still no-one is close to dying, including the boss, and no-one has felt threatened for the last 5 minutes, that things get dull.

Staying alive in bosses: I'm not sure why this sounds strange to you. Rangers keep range. Not level 75, I was about 27 when I wrote this thread. The Shirona boss killed me twice, and Falz Loser (when that event showed up), and Vol Dragon when I didn't know he had a one hit. Maybe you melee, but I'm sure you're aware of RA stuff so I'm not understanding your surprise. This is all solo play I'm referring to.

We feel the same about the public chat. But honestly the cultural thing has swayed me... I don't feel the same conviction I had on that one as I did when I wrote this topic. I still prefer public-only chat in lobbies, but can't say I'd want to force it upon a culture than general doesn't like it.

Interesting points about the MPAs. I'm not seeing a lot of MPA action yet, just a few briefly crossed paths, so can't really comment on that. Might be my timezone.

You then brought up some new points which is cool. Finally I can do more PSO 1 comparisons for no real reason. :)

The size of the fields is a tough one for me. I definitely miss how it worked in PSO 1, but this is affected by a combination of things, size being one. I also don't miss it in a few places; it wasn't uncommon for some areas to feel a bit much when you started. What I am most aware of though is modern gaming trends. I'm sure the developers went with the more bite-sized, no-walls levels partly due to market factors.

I definitely would have preferred it had both though. I'd love it if PSO 2's free fields were a long as PSO 1's. The multitude of quests and orders already offer plenty of quick fixes. But this isn't such a simple thing to wish for due to the lack of walls also. I'm really on the fence about that one; I like what they were trying to do in PSO 2.

And agreed about the reward mentality. Again I think marketing is surely in play here, but yes I'm definitely seeing in the game that a lack of bonuses is becoming a negative, rather than the existence of them being a positive. As I'm a lowish level we see this from different angles, but I'm avoiding party play a lot for similar reasons. I just won't get the huge exp dumps I get from following my own thing. It looks like the game is not going to change this style of play for me any time soon, so I agree: too much rewarding messing up the ability to enjoy what's meant to be normal. Absolutely hearing you when you mourn the loss of just jumping into a Forest to Falz.

I also think there's something wrong when I have to spend 5-10 minutes after an EQ withdrawing, tekking, or discarding "rares".



But, like, EVERYONE agrees on the telepipes right?

[LonelyGaruga]

Staying alive in bosses: I'm not sure why this sounds strange to you. Rangers keep range. Not level 75, I was about 27 when I wrote this thread. The Shirona boss killed me twice, and Falz Loser (when that event showed up), and Vol Dragon when I didn't know he had a one hit. Maybe you melee, but I'm sure you're aware of RA stuff so I'm not understanding your surprise. This is all solo play I'm referring to.

About this. VH enemies have a significant damage jump that makes surviving a bit harder than in N and H. SH not so much (some enemies actually do less damage in SH, like Zeshrayda, but SH Zeshrayda is practically an entirely different enemy with how radically improved its behavior is), but it's still common to be two-shotted by just about anything without investing in defensive stats, and many boss attacks are capable of one-shots. Though as a Cast, that's probably a lot of two-three-shots instead. Enemies also move much more quickly in SH than VH and have many behavior changes. Main thing XH does is increase enemy HP by about 2.5x and expand on attack chains.

Should also say, melee is pretty much the safest and least likely playstyle to get killed. Rather, Rangers are the most vulnerable, because Dive Roll is pretty much the worst dodge in the game. Poor mobility and invincibility. Rangers have the benefit of absurd damage output, but if your damage isn't enough to kill a SH boss quickly, things get quite a bit more complicated.

[Defend]

Oh that's great to hear about SH. That was one thing I forgot in the OP... the absence of actual change from Normal to Hard, and just stats buffs instead, was pretty disappointing. Glad that's not the whole story.

Funny to hear that RA are the most vulnerable! Maybe I should just start joining parties for quests I haven't opened yet.

[Edson Drake]

But, like, EVERYONE agrees on the telepipes right?

The telepipes are retarded. I don't know why it was made this way, Sega probably thought it was OP and wanted to prevent instant exit, but really, it's stupid.

Once, I threw a telepipe and it appeared on the other side of the map. F. Continent if you'd like to try. Seriously.

[Selphea]

Interested to hear the things that you notice, Selphia. Oh I thought of another one.

The main things that bother me about PSO2 have to do with the classes and gear.

Mainly, PSO2 uses the classic 1SP per level model that went out of date around 3-4 years ago. PSO1 never had skill trees in the first place, so it meant things were less focused on stacking multipliers. In PSO1, people stacked ATP which was additive rather than multiplicative, and there were limiters in place like stat caps, so the gap between the top and bottom was smaller.

Another thing is that gear choices are a lot narrower in PSO2. In PSO1, your top tier armor could be Aura Field, Blue Odoshi, Sweet Heart, Smoking Plate, Crimson Coat, Brightness Circle etc. Your shield could be Tripolic Shield, Tripolic Reflector, Secure Feet, Standstill Shield, Rupika and so on, even Delsaber's Shield for Megid areas. Here, it's down to how much ATK and PP your armor set gives, so at the top end there's 4 sets: Saiki, Tian/Gwanman, Negro/Media and XQ and that's it.

Weapons are in a similar situation. Lots of weapons with nice skins in PSO2, but it's all about the ATK and potential, so the Sega pretty much wasted their time making the skin if they give it some silly potential like Aerial Attack on a bossing weapon, or Lunar Eclipse on a teching class, or Spirit Collector on a weapon that doesn't have to worry about PP.

[Walkure]

I like the "Need Before Greed" system for loot in MMOs (especially in games where "Need" is locked depending on class), but it works in those systems because the games are usually much slower and with more downtime between combat.


Mainly, PSO2 uses the classic 1SP per level model that went out of date around 3-4 years ago. PSO1 never had skill trees in the first place, so it meant things were less focused on stacking multipliers.I don't know, I'd say it's just much more common amongst Diablo-like games. Path of Exile does a very good job of having an entirely passive skill tree and it came out a year later than PSO2.


Another thing is that gear choices are a lot narrower in PSO2....Gear also isn't really a huge determinant on playstyle outside of some unique potentials.


Oh that's great to hear about SH. That was one thing I forgot in the OP... the absence of actual change from Normal to Hard, and just stats buffs instead, was pretty disappointing. Glad that's not the whole story.The training wheels don't come off until VH at the very least.

[Selphea]

I don't know, I'd say it's just much more common amongst Diablo-like games. Path of Exile does a very good job of having an entirely passive skill tree and it came out a year later than PSO2.

Path of Exile is very influenced by classic D2 though - right down to the levels and bosses. I'd consider it a retro throwback more than anything else. The current trend I'd say is to go for less, but more impactful character development decisions - quality over quantity. Like giving 1SP per 5-10 levels (GW2), or making the player choose between a few parallel choices at fixed intervals (WoW, GW2, ESO), or letting characters learn everything, but only be able to equip a certain amount of skills at any given time (TSW).


Gear also isn't really a huge determinant on playstyle outside of some unique potentials.

Yea but part of it is the aesthetic - it gets a little old seeing everyone either hiding their units or showing Saiki units. Another part of it is how it reflects on drop design - if you want to farm good units, go visit GGG, or maaybe the XQs for the 90ATK units. Kind of like how if you want to farm good weapons right now, go say hi to Anga. And all the other maps go to waste.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

Kind of like how if you want to farm good weapons, go say hi to Anga. And all the other maps go to waste.

Based on people comments on it im under the assumption that 13*s are a myth lol

Not that ive farmed the endless hours of it personally... Only reason I used to do it was down time in between EQs for EXP since most would be farming that anyway

[wefwq]

Based on people comments on it im under the assumption that 13*s are a myth lol

Not that ive farmed the endless hours of it personally... Only reason I used to do it was down time in between EQs for EXP since most would be farming that anyway
"Good" rares from ultimate itself are really rare, up until this day i never get anything beside shitty *10 cube bait or shitty *10 units that drops from anga and almost gave me heart attack.

[Selphea]

Based on people comments on it im under the assumption that 13*s are a myth lol

Not that ive farmed the endless hours of it personally... Only reason I used to do it was down time in between EQs for EXP since most would be farming that anyway

Yea but it's the Anga Effect. No other boss right now is being farmed to the extent that an entire block that's almost always full (B27) has been dedicated to it.

[Walkure]

Path of Exile is very influenced by classic D2 though - right down to the levels and bosses. I'd consider it a retro throwback more than anything else. The current trend I'd say is to go for less, but more impactful character development decisions - quality over quantity. Like giving 1SP per 5-10 levels (GW2), or making the player choose between a few parallel choices at fixed intervals (WoW, GW2, ESO), or letting characters learn everything, but only be able to equip a certain amount of skills at any given time (TSW).
Retro and throwbacks are super common, though. I'd really only consider a gameplay mechanic "dead" or "outdated" if throwback games don't adopt it.

I don't really see the difference between small increments and larger ones.

Yea but part of it is the aesthetic - it gets a little old seeing everyone either hiding their units or showing Saiki units. Another part of it is how it reflects on drop design - if you want to farm good units, go visit GGG, or maaybe the XQs for the 90ATK units. Kind of like how if you want to farm good weapons right now, go say hi to Anga. And all the other maps go to waste.EP3 drops kinda obsoleted everything before them. Before that, there were tons of potentials that were useful for specific purposes (Species Hunter weapons, PA specific weapons, etc).

[Defend]

@Selphia
To be honest I can't reply much to your thoughts about gear then. My best rares in PSO v2 were the Yasminkov 9200Ms (which totally I loved and became the creation and lifelong staple of my new and favourite main character, good %s too, they even changed my entire playstyle preference permanently), and a God Shield Byakko... super rare... with the stats of a white ring. -_-

And that was it. :(

[Selphea]

Retro and throwbacks are super common, though. I'd really only consider a gameplay mechanic "dead" or "outdated" if throwback games don't adopt it.

I don't really see the difference between small increments and larger ones.

Yea they happen but they're not that common, otherwise they wouldn't be a throwback, but a current trend.

I'd consider a feature outdated when a majority of the top 5 games of the genre don't use it anymore, and major releases in the past year don't use it. As far as MMOs go, based on Raptr (http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-november-2014-dragon-age-and-call-of-duty-debut-world-of-warcraft-resurgent/)*, the current top 5 seems to be WoW - no more skill tree, ArcheAge - no skill tree, FF14 - no skill tree, SWTOR - skill tree, but old game, GW2 - not really a skill tree and no more 1SP per level.

*not a very accurate gauge but there aren't any better ones afaik

And then last year's big releases that aren't on that list. ESO - no skill tree, Wildstar - not sure if it can be considered a tree. As far as Diablo-like games go, the other D2 sequel - the more commercially successful one (obligatory spit), D3 itself, didn't go with a skill tree. And then the Asian action games like Tera - no skill tree; C9 - no skill tree; Vindictus - no skill tree.

As for small vs. large increments in trees, it's not so much the increment itself, but how it changes the format of character building. For a case study, you can look up why WoW did away with talent trees. It's one of the most standout cases, although I'm not very familiar with WoW itself.

But in short, 87SP does not equate to 87 meaningful choices for the character. Because everything is thrown open, you are placed in a situation where you have to choose between Utility or DPS - guess which one wins. So typically, after the dust of a balance pass has settled, most of that SP would be pre-decided, with the leftovers having minimal impact.

Whereas if it's distilled down to 8 or 9 skill choices, it could be done in a different way, like making players choose between two parallel choices - DPS vs DPS at level 10, Utility vs Utility at level 20 and so on. And from a design perspective, it also gives a clearer idea of what each skill should be balanced against. That makes for more impactful customization so that two players of the same class could have very different playstyles.


EP3 drops kinda obsoleted everything before them. Before that, there were tons of potentials that were useful for specific purposes (Species Hunter weapons, PA specific weapons, etc).

And that's what we call a step back :(

[Keilyn]

Firstly, nearly 14 years with the same account! That's pretty neat, kudos to this website.

I played PSO 2 a bit in the beta, left it, and recently came back. Now that's it has been fleshed out more, and I'm playing more, I feel like having a little whine about things I miss from PSO 1. This post is no big deal really; I'm not majorly bothered, just feel like sharing my thoughts.

I'll try to prevent this from being a post of "It would be better if they did X", and will aim to stick to only pointing out differences that are simple and clear (to me).

Total wall of text by the way. Sorry about that.




1. Not dropping items.

Obviously if we could put items on the ground the game would be better. And obviously that would damage their freemium business model. So the reasons are understandable, but it's still a huge shame that it's gone. It's not the trading aspect that I miss; it's the tangible nature of stuff that it brought to the game. While this list isn't meant to be in any sort of order this would definitely be my number 1 thing that was lost in PSO 2.


2. Balance in fields

Wow. I'm sure some might say this is subjective, but to me it doesn't feel that way. In balancing the combat and enemies, PSO 1 was done very well. I don't say that in hindsight either; back in the day I would remark on how well PSO 1's basic game plays out from Normal to V Hard.

But PSO 2 just blows my mind. A RA with a launcher just deals so much damage from the first step on Naberius. Right from level 1 the RA can pull off multiple one-hit KOs with a crit, and this just carries on for I don't know how long. Now think of a level 1 HUcast with his strongest attack in PSO 1. The difference is huge, and remember that's the HUcast using melee, single-target combat. In PSO 1, when you get to the point of one-hitting things, you feel good. In PSO 2, that's level 1.

On top of that, your mobility is so high and the fields so large that nothing threatens you at all. It's common to go into a quest or EQ much higher than your character and just never die. Now think of the same thing in PSO 1. Or of getting past the last Hildebears in early forest runs, or trying to deal with the swarms in Ruins. Sinows... remember the Sinows.


3. Balance in bosses

The bosses go completely the other way and arrive as literal HP sinks. As a result, the jump from enemies to bosses is just hard to understand. If I was at a more appropriate strength for the normal enemies, the boss would take even longer. If my strength was more appropriate for the boss, the level itself would just be an even greater number of 1 hit KOs.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying the bosses are too hard. Actually they're not threatening enough. The problem is that they're too slow a battle. If 5 minutes of fighting have passed and neither side is on the brink of death and no players are feeling threatened, things turn dull. The same fight could be had in a less repetitive way. Several times in PSO 2 I've arrived at a boss for the first time, and killed it after a very long period of feeling not much of anything at all. Compare that to the first time you reach the Dragon at level 3 or 4, or De Rol, or basically any boss in PSO 1. If you would need 15 minutes to kill a boss in PSO 1, the fight will definitely be over in less time than that because you'd be dead.

So in short:
PSO 1: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's easy for the boss to kill you.
PSO 2: If it's hard for you to kill the boss, it's still hard for the boss to kill you.

This could just be a RA issue in PSO 2. Half of the problem is the freedom to totally run away from danger. Again, something PSO 1 handled well with its arenas.

And perhaps the bosses are simply designed for multiple players to be fighting them, reducing the HP issue at least. But still, no-one's worrying about dying. Moon Atomizers are so rarely necessary that I honestly wonder if people carry them.

[ All these comments about balance are referring to a RAcaseal with nothing special. I'm about to equip the standard gun that my R-ATK will allow, my mag supplies only about 7 R-ATK, and I wear whatever armour looks the coolest because defense seems to not really be a thing. ]


4. Detached reality looting.

Please repliers, stop telling me how PSO 1's looting would mean unfair rare distribution. I know. I talked about this a few lines down starting with "Admittedly...". I personally miss that looting but in this OP I did not wish it back, I said something else.

Similar to number 1 up above, I'm a little saddened to know that we aren't all sharing the same bits of loot all over the ground. Yeah there are arguments that support it, such as focussed attacking and fairer looting, but for me the pros don't outweigh the cons (and I was even a RA). Basically, it removes a line of interaction between players... less that says we are sharing the same world.

Admittedly when it comes to rares, for most people PSO 1's approach simply will not fly. I totally understand that. But certainly a hybrid model could have been devised also that maintained the shared world nature of PSO 1, with the fairer rares distribution of PSO 2. That would have been much better, imo.


5. Party chat in lobbies.

Simply the way the Arks ship is almost always completely silent, a problem PSO 1 didn't have. I am guessing this is because everyone is talking in their party channels. I'd simply prefer it if Party chat was actually disabled on the main ship; which admittedly would mean having to find a way to explain that to the players.



I think there are more things but I'll leave it there for now, for fear that I'll get too detailed and lose track of the aim of this post, which is to only point out the large things I feel PSO 1 definitely and simply did better.

Yay!!! :) here is my list from actually being experienced at PSO-1, PSU and PSO2 :)

1. Enemy Field Balance:

PSO: We had clusters of enemies in groups of three....each vulnerable to one of three basic elements...Fire, Ice or Lightning. This was done in forest with the different boomas. This prevented a Force from just going in, casting one tech and one-shotting everything.

In fact one of the most common things seen in both PSO and PSU has disappeared from PSO-2 and its "Gather around for buffs" where people go off in a million different directions because the action is so much faster in PSO-2 with Jumping, Dodge Rolling, etc.

PSO2 = There is no real field balance out there. In fact enemies usually have two weaknesses and the game actually TELLS YOU THE WEAKNESS instead of you figuring it out. Outside of a very specific EQ you will get at most two mobs of enemies to fight simultaneously...

Usually you have the native mob to the map (Basically the map's race) as well as Darkers (who usually fight one another). In fact outside of specific uses, While there are six elements....most rainbow sets are five elements...excluding wind (due to the fact its often paired with a more valuable element to go after like Light or Fire)

2. Room Looks - Cosmetics:

I will say it as I roleplay a female newman (who sometimes gets succubus powers) with a friend...as a cross of a succubus and a grown up magical girl... Yes. I am not shy! as setting up scenes for roleplaying anything from simple stuff all the way to sex/relationships at the hentai/ecchi level... (I use the ASS (Action System Script) for this))

My partner and I have noticed the poor scaling of room objects and there are several things I've wondered in angling camera scenes for any kind of shot we take.

Here are examples:

Lets start with the Visiphone and Storage...Why are they so tall? I had to make a character that was 180cm to actually be at level and at times it still looks like the consoles are designed for max height character. However, when we get the individual consoles (like craft console) they look better for 160cm characters.

A character of 180cm sleeps on the bed without even having her head on the pillow and her feet still stay within the bed...So does that mean the length of the bed itself is around 7 - 8ft?

The Shelves one puts up, at times it makes the character look smaller in height feeling like I just stepped in giant land of Super Mario Brothers series of games.

So when I am across from things that make me feel giant, or small...it forced me to section off half the room...and make something decent for shooting a scene.

(SEGA wouldnt give us rooms, all of these costumes and characters if they didnt want us to actually roleplay our characters outside the missions as well as inside the missions)

There are far too many examples that I can give. But we started noticing these...Why are tall lamps at times shorter than characters when Tall Lamps are commonly made to be 6 - 9ft depending on brand and model? Why do Nightlights put side to side against a Tall Lamp look like its 1ft or less?

3. Costumes

This one definitely goes to PSO-2.

SEGA is very aggressive in releasing costumes, and even revamping some costumes during revivals. The only thing is that gives me mixed feelings is that when PSU started one could actually put costumes for Top, Bottom, and Legs and work with style.

This means getting more pieces but one could find something appealing.

PSO-2 outside of cast parts favors One-Item costumes...which means once you get it, you get it....and color change cards to get the color that you want.

I actually love what I see in PSO-2 as far as costuming goes. It does not mean I don't miss what I saw in PSU. Some of the costumes in PSU were considered to be "Elite Costumes" depending on what classes did chosen by people in the community...(not as something official but it was nice to have)

PSO-1 has the most original costumes since it was the start of things, in the Phantasy Star Online series of games......But compared to the other games that came later, they are just a tiny amount but that was good enough for people back then and they were memorable...

4. Style

This one to me is a tie between PSO-2 and PSU.

There was a spirit to PSU that I liked and it was in the fact it was easier to make the weapons part of the style because there were more one-handed weapons in PSU. I used to have a fashion style with my mag + wand to make the magical girl look and the weapons were part of it.

I find that harder to do in this game because the weapons have potentials and everyone focuses more on potentials for their builds. However that is partially resolved with the crafting system allowing to take a weak weapon and build it up to power on par with a high end weapon that is good enough.

The other problem with styles comes with the Skills trees and class rules.

In PSU there was no way to add a weapon to another class, however classes had more weapons. Master classes had access to three (masterforce) or Four (Fighmaster, Gunmaster) and the weapons themselves had some meaning as well..

I remember rifles in PSU at 31+ being used for knocking stuff down. I would stand there in shooting mode...focusing on one-shot per enemy to knock down enemies while the meleers in the group were in the middle fighting...it was nice to have some strategy, but the weapons looked nice......

...and coincidentally the rifle that rained the most (blackbulls) actually looked great.

Now while PSO-2 has ways of adding weapons to other classes we are still bound by PA limits. In PSU, as long as you had the weapon and the class you could use the PAs (as long as they were leveled up too as we have to level PAs there), but in PSO-2 you can add a class to a weapon and still have no access to any PAs unless either the weapon itself gives you the right to use a specific PA, or you are of the class that normally handles the weapon...severely crippling style.

The combat style and strategy associated with PSO and PSU had change of pace depending on the map one runs. In PSO-2 what we have is different map complexity that creates length of running the mission but actually does not really change the speed at which a group of players destroys a boss in 20 - 30 seconds...

PSO, PSU and PSO-2 have the same formula of a solo player getting top gear to clear maps. PSO has the highest difficulty to the solo player on Ultimate Mode. That is well known specially to the grinding one had to do to get something good to drop and be stuck in the world of section IDs...

...but PSU and PSO-2 = games where if you have one friend...one shit equipment you can beat a map, but that is far more true in PSO-2. I think PSO-2 feels like Phantasy Star gone mainstream now appealing to the masses than stick to its formula. A give/take relationship...if you will.

The last thing is the hair color...

Yes... Hair color is a big deal for me. We can change the color of our eyes but not our hair color...unless we pay for it and we know this was the Freemium model since everyone loves changing hair color....force a fee from everyone. Clearly done for that system.

This actually makes it so that any kind of style/fashion contest type event becomes a lot harder....since the system puts far more limitations on what players can wear and do because of the model...

..In fact player accessories and hairstyles are character-bound while Lobby Actions are Account Bound....encouraging players to get new accounts for each character they make. Its kind of silly if you ask me. ;(

However, I really miss the One-Handed weapon/Offhand system PSU had. I do like Gunslashes a lot....but I still miss my stuff from other games.

5. Races

This can go either way.......in the way I am writing this.

I remember when races had identity in them.

Humans were balanced out towards a specific profession. The idea is that they have decent stats in their main profession but enough points in other areas to not be weak. Their strength and weakness is the same...Balance. Yes. This has remained true for humans across the three games....With humans getting the largest bonus in PSU GAS making the perfect for hybrids..

But what about the other races?

Casts/Caseals (We all love our female casts)

What happened to casts being able to automatically detect traps and regenerate health? I remember when casts had no MST and took the most damage from spells but they were so badass...They had their own identity and their playstyle was determined from that identity.

If you are a purist, then you believe that cast/caseal force was a mistake and always a mistake, but truth be told even that is kind of unique for a character backstory. Cast wand-wacking techer is amazing in PSO-2, However...casts were about ninja moves, big explosions....and really leaving a mark. :)

Casts in PSO-2 to me have become more Human in the sense they lost part of that identity and outside of graphics and features....and very little stat changes/differences.... (however little differences can go a long way). What made a cast, a cast...is gone and who do we have to represent them? We have one of my favorite NPCs...Lisa!!! Who is more representative of casts by personality which in turn does not say much about personal feel in the game (in my opinion).

Ok, Newmans! I will be careful as the reason I play Phantasy Star Games IS for the newmans. Newmans are my all time favorite race in the entire Role Playing Multi-verse..

Call them what you will...Space Elves, Scrappers, or Clawgirls (what I would call them)...They started as something totally badass....

Newmans have deformities that make them look different than humans but its what makes them look Hot or Cute...and even that hotness and cuteness is a deception because the original newman (back to the time of Nei) was a combination of a human with a biomonster...before Rika was made by SeeD and the genetic engineering constructs that came in PSO...as well as the tremor in the force....The terrible, hideous looking MALE NEWMAN in PSO....Thankfully Male newmans looked better in PSO-2, and I won't even mention PSU. That is just my opinion...but moving right along...

What made love the newmans was the initiative...and heart of being a scrapper and a hybrid. Front Line Fighters that were not SUPER POWERFUL SPELLCASTERS but were ridiculously fast. You take a newman like Rika, give her claws that have Insta-Death on them....and first initiative and you can already win a battle on her own. She was able to combine her melee abilities and tech abilities + initiative to completely tear up the battlefield.

Newmans had claws, daggers, etc.

Though the weapon I miss most in PSO-2 is the Slicer....

But look at what happened in PSU after PSO's Amazing HUnewearls (who could block a lot of attacks, tech blast the map to pieces while swinging double cannons.....yeah, that was my character)......not to mention FOnewearls being super cute and melting down everything....

FOnewearls had the personality of being the first to die....Little health, but we couldn't help by love them. In fact it was amazing if they outlived everyone and all the stuff they brought in melting down the battlefields.

But look at what happened in PSU....

They became mages....for the most part. It was all about Wartecher, Forteforce, and Masterforce....and they were good Acrotechers. It wasnt until late PSU-JP when Hybrid newmans really had a return to what newmans originally were...

Hybrids that were damned good at what they did...

Now we have PSO-2 and what are newmans in there?

Newmans are in the same boat as humans are....Trying to find identity in the classes that they play. We run around the Arks ship and most of what we see is "Oh a person with long ears, must be a newman!" and there is not much more to go on...

I also agree where their attributes lie in comparison to others. However I don't agree with the entire "Once again we make the top Spellcasters against everything else..."

...and what angers me between PSO and PSO-2 is that when PSO came out, every player and their dog had a HUnewearl at least saved in one VMU...simply because of everything they had and their insanely high evasion.

We knew the identity in PSO and that was really defined..

PSO-2 from player to player....Though Newmans still have their basic deformities that I love so much. (That was a good job by Sega) but once again.. Part of the newman attitude is gone because one-handed weapons are gone. Each weapon goes to one pallete space...So dual wielding does not work...

Newmans were amazing in PSU (Late into its Life Cycle) being able to attack with a whip on one hand, and a tech on the other hand. Or hell even CARDS were good.. In PSO those daggers were great.

Of course the one thing that PSO, PSU and PSO-2 has NOT LOST despite all the changes is the heaviest and most colorful mayhem known to mankind....

Try 12 newmans in an MPA going all force and blowing up the entire map simultaneously. It was a strain on the system back then...and yeah truth be told...Its still the most beautiful strain known to man when I see a million techs blowing up the entire map.. :)

6 Masterforces in PSU enough? 4 Newearls in PSO casting techs? How about 12 Newman casters in PSO-2??? I got to see be involved in that twice so far and it was glorious. :)

Which brings me to my next section:

6. Classes

Classes have been ripped apart in PSO2. I will start with my greatest pet peeve that really pisses me off because of Map Structure, Enemy Structure, Field Balance...Class Balance...ETC...

FORCES!!!!

First and Foremost... Forces are my lifeblood...they are my favorite and regardless how I play newman, I always have Techs be it as a main or subclass. Its not the entire "I can't live without techs" bullshit line I've heard from some (When I have characters that do not use techs ever)...its that I feel techs are part of a newman's identity..

I find FORCES to have the worse implementation in PSO-2. In PSU all the elements could be used vs enemies weak to those techs for major damage. Using a Level 50 GASed DIGA on Motherbrain was absofuckinglutely priceless....

It deserved in own commercial...

Getting blasted by buffed gaozorans? FREE
Being Grants at the third stage of the falz battle....10 scape dolls.
Coming back with a Level 50 Tech and Tooling the fucker that blasted you to pieces in almighty fashion at low levels...ABSOLUTELY FUCKING PRICELESS!!! :)

Admire the Bullshit...because

What started as Monster-Level Bullshit.....in PSO...
Started going to PLAYER-MADE BULLSHIT in PSU...with cute examples like

Paradi, Espada....Oh wait? what is this? Human and Newman Blasts? Level 50 Techs? Extended Range Twin Dils? Sure...Monsters had Bullshit in PSU...but so did the players. Anga Jabroga?...Warp Drive powered by Tornado Dance?

How about Ultimate Bullshit....at the end of PSU...Psychodrives anyone? :) Who needs to think when you have psychodrive! Or how about the cast supremacy..

PSO-2 Revolves around using weak bullet and unloading whatever bullshit combination we have for destroying bosses in 30 seconds or less.

Weak Bullet is SO GOOD that in spending about 10 points to get a level 1 weak bullet...or so...(not sure the actual distribution....was it 3 5 1? please remind me....which still places it that by level 10...You have a higher multiplier for 15 seconds than any other class (stand-alone) has at max level ;)

Enjoy your Ranger Supremacy as it steals the spotlight from techer as its more important to weak bullet a boss than actually buffing your party for a measly extra 10% - 20% damage...Instead do both by going Techer/Ranger and laugh out loud as Ranger is hailed as a better support class than Techer and preferred 11:1 given the choice of having a techer in the MPA or a PURE RANGER with WB, the ranger will win out each and every time...

So yeah, back to force.... :)

Where rather than focus on six elements and be put into maps where the mobs all have different weaknesses.....Have fun as you build two classes to be able to use all six elements well, and combine their T-ATK in order to have the Force-Power you would have in other games from leveling one type or class up.....and focusing on the PAs themselves.

Enjoy as you fast-cast FIRE, and Forget completely about Ice except when you want to kill several bosses with IllBarta, in which if the tech didnt exist paired with elysion, no one would even give a damn about ice to begin with.

Embark on a Journey where Dark does more damage as an enemy against Dark-Strong enemies than Light does, and where FIRE does more damage to Fire-Strong enemies than Ice both numerically and Fast...Only to find in order to have any real damage you have to actually supplant your class main weapon in order to gain a damage boost...and if all else fails...You can just take a wand itself and thanks to Wand Reactors, Lovers, and Gear....Simply bludgeon the enemy to death!

We can forget about wind magic except when we are using Zanverse or spending time in the three maps were Wind Magic is actually good....or the one MPA where Light Magic would have been great if all the enemies weren't also weak to FIRE.....

Ok....So now.....What about Hunters?

How about a SELECTOR? You take a long test to see which class are you and you get the following:

Congratulations!! You are Hunter....

You are utterly useless as a main for the first 50 - 60 levels of the game, as in order to do damage you have to cancel out your main class strength of actually having more strength and defense making you absolutely generic. Nevermind those glorious days where hunters were good at low to mid-levels and had many options...Instead you get several clumsy weapons and will depend more on your subclass than your main class for a long time.....and if you ever get tired you can become a tank and hardly ever die but hardly ever kill anything...Thanks!!! and have a nice day. :P

Or how about "The Life of a Hunter?"

"Oh yeah!! Im a hunter.....and I HAD great health and Defense...until I wanted to do some fucking damage and now if I take a hit, I sustain more damage than even a force...but yeah!! I hit like a truck and all it took was the right set of weapons and at least the first 60 levels which even when I am done with the class I will still feel like I have half a tree.....compared to other classes since in FACT I do have half a tree all telling me to lose out the composition of the class it states at class selection....Can I go back to Ragol now?"

Bravers? Don't even get me started on how much of a bullshit class Bravers are. :) Its as laughable as when Ritualist came out in Guild Wars and one of the players said "I love Ritualist.....I can play with one hand, and masturbate with my other and still win matches spamming spirits!"


Now going back to race....as I could have sworn I finished with Race.....Before Dewman and Beasts broke down my front door and taught me to fly out my window....Yeah great view...Not! But at least they have my collection of games.. (wait...Is that even a good thing???? and my weapons....FUCK!!)

....

Ok, so what about Beasts and Dewmans...


They are the same fucking thing...simply put. For the first part of this I dont really give a shit where they came from. They are all about HIGH DAMAGE output and nothing else. Those who can already survive everything without taking a hit might as well go Dewman..

Now comes image...

So pick your poison...

A girl who can dominate you in bed as much as wanting to be dominated......who even makes you say that "Beast Girls are the Best!" with such pride...

Or another Human-Derived Race....that makes you wonder if they are Newman #2 or Beast #2.. (Remember where the original Newmans came from......Biomonsters mixed with Humans...) and what do we have here???? Darkers and you know what...

In short... Newman #2 except they have horns (and different colored eyes....and go the other way....Since now instead of there being ATP, there is S-ATK, R-ATK, and T-ATK...

Once again we have the PSU formula of Balance + Profession Specific Races based on a dominant stat....

Of course. I take the beast girls any day. I like the ears and I had so much fun playing my green haired Beast Girl and the Super Tribal Beast Male "Ungabunga" as part of my running joke...beating bosses with meat weapons!

Besides......
We visit Moatoob....and it reminds me of the Klingon Homeworld in star trek...

Fire everywhere... Parties and battles every night...and sex where every damn bone in the body is broken by the time the two are through.

Dewmans need more identity....and its funny because my own universe I've written for 20 years has every race derived from what humans have done...But what I see in the Dewmans feel like it makes newmans less unique....


Ok so now......preventing myself from being beaten to death by whatever beast or dewman breaks through my front door...I still would say that "Beast Girls are the Best'

...and the different colored eyes can really backfire if done wrong.


Ok guys and girls...If you know your romance movies...Please remind me the name of this one. What was the name of the movie released many years ago in which the main character was a girl (like a witch or sorts) who believed that true love didn't exist and either made the wish or cursed herself that her lover is to have different colored eyes....or some shit... (as a measure to keep love away from her)

...and then the lover shows up having different colored eyes...

Dewman 0.1 beta? :P

Shit...that I forgot my romance movies....though I hover between romance movies, ecchi and hentai manga. I still think DearS was beautifully drawn and executed in the anime and the manga. (Still a Ren fan!) :P

Now Finally.....

My final Rant in this absolutely wall of text!....I'll call it "Keilyn's Rant Conjuring!"

7 - 10000000. Everything else....(Dances, Characters, etc) ..

The only character I loved the development for was Quna, and I laugh at how the assistance to falz is the only normal woman (that is what I call normal).

Of course it doesn't stop that so many people love the ultra useless dances that most beginners can learn on their own in the first month of dancing. :) Of course the fan dance is a favorite and its amazing how one can meet so many people by just imitating their dance (if you have it) and starting up a chat.....

But we get into the queen of emotes/dance linking... Quna!!!

Anyone who has seen a Quna Concert has seen the character appear taller than normal due to camera angles, and perspective. Then you see Quna where she normally stands and you have your ??? over your head. Not to mention a commonly roleplayed character....

which is my point....players have a connection to her. Of course she is one of my favorites and we all love the song buff too....

But its the fact that its a spectacle in Machinamation to link everything together to Quna's Singing Voice (which is actually a half an octave to an octave lower, but well done.)

So how does this work (as a musician with a degree in music)

1. Quna pops on a stage and looks taller than normal or its just camera angles....Says something in a high pitched voice....which appears like its about to break..

2. Quna's Singing voice takes over.....basically Quna talks like a soprano, but sings between Alto and Soprano....How do I know this?

I sing tenor and alto and contratenor. The rule is that if I can't make out the pitches of another, im out of range...So I practice songs in the Alto and in the Tenor Range.

Example of a Practice Song: When it was done on the Series House, the Song "Get Happy" that was originally sung by Judy Garland in the production called "Summer Stock" is a great example of a song to learn to sing because of all the covers floating around.... However, when it was done for the show House (as the cast studied together and had known each other for years) I loved how the song went into the vocal ranges of the two involved...

That is an example of a song I can sing from the lowest note to the highest note (the female voice at the end). The song cover is amazing because it uses the vocaloids...A vocaloid is a voice-form or voice type by emotions learned in Theater Arts..

The song uses three voice-types and multiple octaves...

3. We either hear Extraverted songs (which aren't so good) or Intraverted songs (which are the best ones)...

Ok, so what is the difference?

Intraverted songs = Songs that tell the story of what is going on in your own mind, in your own world. Questions of love, fear, torment, hope......mostly centered around inner emotion and desire...

Extraverted songs = Songs where your message goes out to the world. In these songs you are reaching out directly to the public. Its all about you and your desire against or for an object that exists, and its out there...visible.


Ok so what is the rant behind this? This is actually great....right? Well the reason people see the concert is mostly for the song buff. In short, we view Japanese Culture as a GROUP ORIENTED CULTURE RIGHT?

We have the left side of the brain telling me "Japanese are logical, direct and group oriented and here is the evidence and facts" which are thrown at you from every angle, mostly by people who dont speak, read, or write Japanese (like I do!) and who act like their word is Might makes Right....

Then we all enter these Japanese Games and what do we find?

Everyone regardless of ethnicity, doing all possible to become as strong and as powerful as powerful. To win without the help of anyone...and to go as far as possible without having to be in a group...and even thinking of the self, more than the ideal of thing in terms of a group....

This is the RIGHT SIDE OF THE BRAIN that has nothing to do with logic and we see what it is....in fact "it is what it is" and it is what we see....

...and we also hear of the hard work ethic and mentality "People work....and they do it without asking for anything in return" attitude....Americans and Japanese claim to have that...but its a lie.

Everyone asks for a decent life, well being for themselves and family. Everyone has a house to grow and debts to pay in some form....Even in anime we get stories of a person wanting to "become strong" and usually stronger than everyone else...

I see Japanese people come here and the first thing they tell me is that they respect their culture back home, but literally that its bullshit and its the reason why they are behind in the times and why they came to America. (This is what people from Showa tell me all the time).

Of course, Cultural Withdrawl is not bad...When I go to Spain, or France...Im like "So fucking happy I dont have to deal with American Culture or its bullshit for a while..." Like a vacation for my soul.......

then its back to business.

The fact that they have to give you a song buff to make you go to see Quna is an example of games catering to the masses. :) Of course its part of the roleplaying. Listen to a song that buffs you up and empowers you and then 2 seconds later "Oh no another ship for the 1000s time is coming in range of the ark's fleet with Falz inside."

4. We all forget and continue on with our business with the song buff remaining to remind us that we went to the quna concert.

Nothing like Machinamation...I wonder how long the engine will last before it all turns to shit. :)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the company that made the game everyone loves....(PSO), followed by the sequel everyone wants to forget (PSU)...comes PSO-2!

PSO-2....Embark on an epic crusade across a universe so big that it can be explored in one whole day! Along the way, rather than play with your three closest buddies in a story that takes time travel and reinvents it by simply making you unaware that you are actually doing it, play with a bunch of arks personnel who will make you wonder how the fuck they even got accepted into the military.

Witness in awe as super cute girl after super cute girl in their clumsiness end up forming a space harem that is restricted in language due to their rating system in a story so filled with sexual innuendo it would make mother teresa blush...but who cares as long as we have fun...Oh wait....really!!? You dropped out of stealth in the middle of a cavern to tell me about your problems while surrounded by enemies???? The least you could is help me kill those....OMG!!! TYPEKILL YOU FUCKERS....Dion...diania...whatever those things are called...

So enjoy a story that spans episodes that try to actually link themselves together and yet feel like they truly have absolutely nothing to do with one another....and when you are done......with the ultra predictable badass threat to the universe, who will be slain by a sole half naked girl that you created...

...then prepare yourself to battle the true final boss of the game! Watch as little monica breaks all the gear you spent the last few thousand hours attaining as you cringe hoping to reach a perfect 10 Not Once, Not Twice, or even three times...BUT FOUR FUCKING TIMES....

....Cower in fear as your millions become zeros in what is the poorest excuse for an endgame economy in the history of just about every mmo known to mankind, as you rise to glory, or turn to ash....if you can actually find the shit you wish to grind in the first place....!!!!

So gather three of your best friends....form a team where you will do absolutely nothing team oriented, but chat all day, and all night long about cute and useless crap that will keep you more entertained than the actual game content....

...prepare for....PHANTASY STAR...ONLINE...2!!!

...Because it wasn't enough that falz couldn't stay dead after the first game, but that every hero he has ever face was incompetent to not actually finish the job.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Achelousaurus]

@Megidolaon
Loot: Your reply is covered in the OP. But as an aside, when you called looting an unfound item stealing, either you had an agreement with your friends and they, not the game, betrayed you. Or you didn't have such an agreement and it was just you setting your expectations up for disappointment. In the latter case I understand the frustration, but not thinking of people as thieves over it. In the former case, that's a positive of the game in that trust was able to exist at all, and just a negative of your friends.
B20
5ch.

[TaigaUC]

I miss the progressing environmental changes.

[Edson Drake]

I wish the mag system would be more complex like it was in PSO, not just another stat boost and a single PB.

So much potential to make an awesome Mag system...

[Defend]

Walllll of text. :D


Yay!!! :) here is my list from actually being experienced at PSO-1, PSU and PSO2 :)

I liked PSU but really don't know a lot about it, so I'm afraid I'm gonna pass on your PSU comments.


1. Enemy Field Balance:

PSO: We had clusters of enemies in groups of three....each vulnerable to one of three basic elements...Fire, Ice or Lightning. This was done in forest with the different boomas. This prevented a Force from just going in, casting one tech and one-shotting everything.
Sounds like a good point. I just know very little about FO in PSO 2. PSO 1 actually had the 2 types of resistances, magic and species, and we had to guess magic only. Yes I preferred that too... figuring it out was a piece of the fun in my opinion. What's more, I'd actually remember. Just displaying the weakness now for everything kinda turns it into death by paperwork.


In fact one of the most common things seen in both PSO and PSU has disappeared from PSO-2 and its "Gather around for buffs"I can agree, I'm definitely not seeing that kind of play in PSO 2. But my level isn't high enough to have seen much. Stuff just dies so fast anyway.


2. Room Looks - Cosmetics
Got nothing to say on that. PSO 1 and free PSO 2 = room stuff doesn't really factor in.



3. Costumes
Actually this is one area that's bug me a bit in PSO 2. There are no Rangers, Hunters and Force. There are schoolgirls, hamsters and bikinis. I miss being able to recognise what class someone is. (But honestly, it seems to matter a lot less now too. Are you a <any class>? Oh, so you'll be dealing a tonne of damage then.) Meanwhile the whole game is nothing but weird outfits; just some weird videogame fashion show. It's no wonder there are so few male casts. I welcome all the costume options... I guess I just wish they had more restrictions in some way so that the sci-fi theme was actually upheld. Perhaps seasonal unless lobby only, or all with low stats, or something.



4. Style

So many different points you've listed under style heh. I can't comment on any of the PSU stuff.


...but PSU and PSO-2 = games where if you have one friend...one shit equipment you can beat a map, but that is far more true in PSO-2. I think PSO-2 feels like Phantasy Star gone mainstream now appealing to the masses than stick to its formula.

There is definitely a tonne of mainstream appeal behind the shaping of PSO 2, not to mention wallet manipulation. It's a bit sad but that's the way it has to be. :/

I agree that the hair colouring is a money thing, but I agree with freemium business models using premium vanity items. It's not harder to change your hair colour, it's as easy as it has always been. There aren't more limitations, only more options to pay less money.



5. Races

I remember when races had identity in them.

Couldn't agree more. PSO 2 = make a robot or don't make a robot. And even the casts aren't half as distinct as they used to be, stats-wise.

Since I wasn't into PSU much, yes I am a believer in cast = no magic. Having said that, I would have preferred PSU's beasts over PSO 2's Dewmen. Two horns and two eye colours... bit disappointing.


6. Classes

I don't know enough about PSO 2 yet to comment on how the classes compare. Absolutely everything seems OP to me. There's so much visual chaos, and it's over so quickly, that I can't back up someone, I can't be caught needing help, I can't run to someone to help their melee (even assuming the enemy isn't being thrown all over the place by animations), there's no time to resta someone or use shifta.... no-one cares, everything's dead already.

I have possibly seen zero FO action from other players, now that I think of it.

In terms of races and classes, while I know that we like to have the full set of options of any race and any class, I do very much miss the clarity of PSO's distinct choices.

[Hysteria1987]

What I miss most about PSO1 was the atmosphere. Wandering around Pioneer II with its' flying cars and goggle-headed tekkers really gave off a high-tech, sci-fi future world with a touch of Asian inspiration. Then there was the mission areas, and the storyline! I still remember the sense of mystery and dread it evoked as you uncovered what happened to the Pioneer I, discovered the ancient ruined spaceship containing Falz, and found the off-the-records facility on the sea floor- not to mention CCA, which was just gorgeous.

Conversely, the areas in PSO2 kind of feel like they're there just for something different than the last place. Don't get me wrong, I like them, but they don't have that same sense of purpose to me as PSO1's areas did. It's kill the Darkers, sure, but I don't feel urgent about doing it. To be fair I haven't finished the storyline yet (up to the end of Ep1, and I've touched on Ep3- wish I could read it though!), but even in there it feels a bit all over- one minute you're on Naberius, next moment you're teaching robots how to love Lillipans.

I'd like to see more quests in-line with PSO1's style too- where you're going down to a world to do a very specific job for someone, or something like that, as opposed to killing a boss/sub-boss or collecting a certain amount of points. To me, quests should be to experience something that you don't get the chance to in the free field, whether storyline, game mechanic, puzzle, enemy or so forth. PSO1 had some great ones- some of them were dead simple to explain too, for instance- we have these two control towers, overrun by creatures, and we don't know what data it holds. You're an experienced hunter, go find out for us!

All up the game feels a little less sci-fi/high-tech, and just a little too Japanese for me compared to the first one. Some of the outfits are just a bit too overdone for me (not to mention not all that many armoured ones, given that we're going out to fight evil creatures out to turn us into more of them!), most of the accessories definitely aren't for me, maybe the weapons are just a bit too big, and then there's Monica.

But that's just what I'd change. I really do enjoy playing the game and the people I've met on it- it still does feel like a spiritual successor to my favourite game, and I feel like what it did change are generally improvements. There's certainly more options available!

...Well, I wrote a lot. Time I went to bed I think ^^;

[Chimeria]

What I miss most about PSO1 was the atmosphere. Wandering around Pioneer II with its' flying cars and goggle-headed tekkers really gave off a high-tech, sci-fi future world with a touch of Asian inspiration. Then there was the mission areas, and the storyline! I still remember the sense of mystery and dread it evoked as you uncovered what happened to the Pioneer I, discovered the ancient ruined spaceship containing Falz, and found the off-the-records facility on the sea floor- not to mention CCA, which was just gorgeous.

Conversely, the areas in PSO2 kind of feel like they're there just for something different than the last place. Don't get me wrong, I like them, but they don't have that same sense of purpose to me as PSO1's areas did. It's kill the Darkers, sure, but I don't feel urgent about doing it. To be fair I haven't finished the storyline yet (up to the end of Ep1, and I've touched on Ep3- wish I could read it though!), but even in there it feels a bit all over- one minute you're on Naberius, next moment you're teaching robots how to love Lillipans.

I'd like to see more quests in-line with PSO1's style too- where you're going down to a world to do a very specific job for someone, or something like that, as opposed to killing a boss/sub-boss or collecting a certain amount of points. To me, quests should be to experience something that you don't get the chance to in the free field, whether storyline, game mechanic, puzzle, enemy or so forth. PSO1 had some great ones- some of them were dead simple to explain too, for instance- we have these two control towers, overrun by creatures, and we don't know what data it holds. You're an experienced hunter, go find out for us!


I completely agree with all the points you've touched here. While many people will argue that with the addition of multiple planets, (opposed to just one lone, uninhabited planet) some even with established civilizations like Shironia, the floating continent and the seabed, it's hard to capture that feel of mystery that the first one had. As much as I want PSO2's storyline to recapture that feel of the first one, it's just not going to happen unless they completely scrap what they have now and do something else. My other issue with the story is that they want to make it seem like YOU are the only hero investigating this matterboard, time traveling and such when there is a whole ship full of ARKs. Same thing with PSU and that story. In PSO it felt like we were all trying to uncover this mystery of this planet, finding clues and speculating. It felt like it was a collective team of people trying to do something. I miss that...

Besides my gripe with the story, while the areas in PSO2 are nice...I miss feeling like we were actually adventuring. Some of the areas in PSO are similar to PSO2 in the fact that they are essentially flat land areas but...it was just something about them. Areas like the Ruins or the Seabead just always felt like you were going deeper into something. And they were very mysterious. I miss the larger areas like the jungle and even the VR simulation areas. There was so much detail as well. The Spaceship with the screens of Ragol Areas....The Areas in PSO2 feel like we're playing on a boardgame compared to those in PSO.

I hate to compare because I know that they are two completely different games but in some cases I feel that this sequel has gone two steps back in certain spots. I still enjoy it but I wish they'd put more thought into certain aspects.

[Hysteria1987]

You mentioned a lot that I'd forgotten about :-P I particularly miss this-


In PSO it felt like we were all trying to uncover this mystery of this planet, finding clues and speculating. It felt like it was a collective team of people trying to do something. I miss that...

I did get that sense of togetherness with the rest of the hunters. Cynical as this may sound, PSO2 to me feels like a mob of unrelated strangers killing creatures because they're there- I'm the one between the cardboard box man, the launcher-girl in the wedding dress, and the guy who never takes his sports mascot outfit off =P

But each to their own- while I'm not going for any of those looks myself, I can craft some looks that I do want.

[Eternal255]

I personally viewed this game as something completely different than PSO. My first playthru of this game was a challenge. Back when there were only 3 classes & no subclass.

Playing as a hunter sucked ass, and it still does. I hate hunters even tho they were my favorite class in PSO. I love playing melee, but nothing of hunters appeals to me. Thankfully they made Fighters not too long after that. But anyway, as a hunter on my first playthrough, I couldn't solo most of the bosses until I was significantly higher level than the boss. Their weapons were (and still are) slow and boring. So much that I would use nothing but the gunblade the whole time.


Now, however, after the skill tree changes, gears and fighter classes I can solo the extreme quests no problem as a fighter.

[Stealthcmc1974]

Hysteria and Chimera, you guys both have good points. PSO2's story doesn't become remotely interesting until a certain big guy shows up near the end of Ep. 1, whereas I was engaged with PSO the whole way through. I also miss character design in the sense that you could easily tell who is what class. I still dress my characters that way, but when you have a person next to you fighting in a bikini in the Tundra on Naberius, its off putting to say the least. Totally okay with it in the lobby though. Also wish we had actual differences in species like in PSO. I dont need anything as extravagant as say, how CASTs had S.U.V.s in PSU, but the little things like how Newmans recovered TP whil CASTs recovered HP was a nice touch. And the quests are absolutely boring in PSO2. No point other than to unlock new areas or for matterboard stuff. Otherwise its all very cookie cutter.

Now that we've been talking about this so much, I may start fresh w/ a new character PSOBB. I miss that game. Only thing I wish there were was HUmarls...

[saraishadow]

My gripe about PSO2 compared to previous games is the use of non-theme costumes. There are a good amount of ARKS/PSO themed costumes but they're far outnumbered by outfits that honestly have no business being here.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.

[Eternal255]

My gripe about PSO2 compared to previous games is the use of non-theme costumes. There are a good amount of ARKS/PSO themed costumes but they're far outnumbered by outfits that honestly have no business being here.

Anyway, that's just my 2 cents.

I actually completely agree with that too. Really dont like 90% of the costumes they put in this game. I've been considering going back to the starter outfit (or maybe recolor one of the 7* versions). The zamlord I've been using isnt too bad though I suppose.

[Selphea]

when you have a person next to you fighting in a bikini in the Tundra on Naberius

Some of the PSO1 Hunewearl costumes were practically bikinis.

[Chimeria]

Hysteria and Chimera, you guys both have good points. PSO2's story doesn't become remotely interesting until a certain big guy shows up near the end of Ep. 1, whereas I was engaged with PSO the whole way through.
Now that we've been talking about this so much, I may start fresh w/ a new character PSOBB. I miss that game. Only thing I wish there were was HUmarls...
I still haven't played much through the story although I really want to...It's such a turn-off having to complete parts of the matterboard to progress through the story. And then having to repeat the chapter to go through the branching paths kinda sucks in my opinion. Give me capsules and client story orders (like in PSO) anyday. The Client Story orders were great. Seat of Heart, Soul of Steel and Seek my master were awesome!

I tried playing my old PSO games and they just weren't as fun. I downloaded Schtack BB and realized how outdated the game was. Sure the nostalgia was there but it's reeeeeally slow. Especially after you've played PSO2 for some time.


I also miss character design in the sense that you could easily tell who is what class. I still dress my characters that way, but when you have a person next to you fighting in a bikini in the Tundra on Naberius, its off putting to say the least. Totally okay with it in the lobby though. Also wish we had actual differences in species like in PSO. I dont need anything as extravagant as say, how CASTs had S.U.V.s in PSU, but the little things like how Newmans recovered TP whil CASTs recovered HP was a nice touch.
I don't really mind the fighting in a bathing suit part...I usually throw on my trunks when running the beach or seabed areas. But I do understand what you're saying. But you can't really expect much from a game that is kind of geared towards female characters and is full of fanservice. They made a big deal out of a boob-slider before the game's launch for goodness sake.

I do miss the racial abilities though. CASTS had all the good stuff. No poison and HP regen. Newman had TP Regen. Maybe they'll add something like that later on...(hopefully)

I do want to make one thing clear...I DO like PSO2 for what it is though. As long as you understand that it's not PSO then it's pretty enjoyable.

[Stealthcmc1974]

You're right, but I can still be dissatisfied with it. Especially the fanservice.

Shocking, I know. But that's my opinion. I enjoy PSO2 for the way the combat works, but there isn't much keeping me playing besides the LP I've been doing.

BTW, you may want to try Ultima PSOBB. Pretty much like Schtack but with a constant 3X EXP boost, sometimes 5 on weekends. Makes lvling up not so drawn out. Also friends, play with friends. I'd be game.