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Aine
Jan 15, 2015, 04:21 AM
http://pso2.jp/players/support/measures/?id=4998

The bug will be fixed next maintenance, but they've put out a warning that players who intentionally abuse it may be banned. Just in time for the scheduled Magatsu!

I doubt they can actually keep track of who's using Chain Vol/Banish, but they did actually ban people in the Danbo Suit incident, so...

Xaeris
Jan 15, 2015, 04:26 AM
I guess they couldn't get the fix done in time for yesterday's update. I dunno how I feel. I mean, on one hand, it's fairly shitty of them to ban people for creative use of game mechanics in a rather laid back PvE game. I mean, it's not like there's any world firsts or PvP (well, time attacks, but I don't think this trick is relevant to those) at stake here. On the other, even just a week of organized Magatsu farming would lead to an absurd amount of excubes with which to trivialize grinding.

EvilMag
Jan 15, 2015, 04:27 AM
lmao. Might as well ban people who abused anga farming. Might as well ban people who abused exit bursts. What the actual fuck sega?

Z-0
Jan 15, 2015, 04:32 AM
Taking advantage of mechanics is cheating!

I should have so many fraudulent charges against my name in that case.

EvilMag
Jan 15, 2015, 04:34 AM
Yeah seriously where is Sega starting to threatening to hand out bans to those who quad-dash?

What about the people who did Code skipping in Amdusica TA? What about the exploit that kills the wave of enemies with one Satalite cannon in Nab II? I know I'm ranting a lot but this is seriously retarded.

Also if they really want to stop players from doing this then why not do an Emergency Maintenance or better yet, why didn't you do it this patch?

Vampy
Jan 15, 2015, 04:36 AM
Sega seems to enjoy sucking the little enjoyment that's in the game saying they are fixing when in reality they are doing it so more players are thirsty for "content".

Walkure
Jan 15, 2015, 04:44 AM
I doubt they can actually keep track of who's using Chain Vol/Banish, but they did actually ban people in the Danbo Suit incident, so...It really wouldn't be hard if you could query for instances of damage above a certain value, class combinations in each quest, quest time results, or a number of things really. Good question if they actually have any of those resources that they'd be willing to search through.

What was the Danbo Suit incident?

Z-0
Jan 15, 2015, 04:47 AM
edit: read below, I got it wrong. _(:3

Ce'Nedra
Jan 15, 2015, 04:48 AM
I might be a bit off, but the Danbo Suit incident was that you could enter the code on multiple systems at the same time and everyone would receive the item, so people abused teh fuck out of that.

*citation needed

Might as well add that at that point they sold for 20-30 mil a piece and some people made quick money from that.

EvilMag
Jan 15, 2015, 04:49 AM
Pretty much people entered and exited the building at the festa event to get multiple Danbo codes. Sega handed out one week bans to people who registered more than one code at the same time.

Aine
Jan 15, 2015, 04:49 AM
It really wouldn't be hard if you could query for instances of damage above a certain value, class combinations in each quest, quest time results, or a number of things really. Good question if they actually have any of those resources that they'd be willing to search through.

What was the Danbo Suit incident?

It was some live event a while back (I think around the start of EP3) where they were giving out codes for Danbo Suits at the entrance, some people just repeatedly entered and exited the grounds to stock up on multiple codes. SEGA put up a warning and eventually banned anyone who had entered more than x codes, although it was only temporary.

Vent
Jan 15, 2015, 04:54 AM
They just popped an in-game announcement regarding this. Of course this comes 10 minutes before scheduled Magatsu EQ on all ships. Looks like they are serious about it.

EvilMag
Jan 15, 2015, 04:55 AM
Yeah and the funny thing is that now a lot of organized parties for magastu are starting to ban Gunners from their parties.

Walkure
Jan 15, 2015, 04:58 AM
Yeah and the funny thing is that now a lot of organized parties for magastu are starting to ban Gunners from their parties.Back to the usual, then?

EvilMag
Jan 15, 2015, 04:59 AM
pretty much. SEGA seriously has some serious vendetta against Gunner I swear...

Shady3011
Jan 15, 2015, 04:59 AM
Yeah and the funny thing is that now a lot of organized parties for magastu are starting to ban Gunners from their parties.

I'd have to wonder if Sega would have the balls to ban the whole MPA because someone decided to do this.

Maenara
Jan 15, 2015, 05:02 AM
Amazing, Sega, amazing.

Ce'Nedra
Jan 15, 2015, 05:02 AM
I'd have to wonder if Sega would have the balls to ban the whole MPA because someone decided to do this.

They did back then with RMT bots so why not? One enters your normal MPA and bam entire MPA could risk a ban without players even noticing there was a bot.

Vampy
Jan 15, 2015, 05:13 AM
pretty much. SEGA seriously has some serious vendetta against Gunner I swear...


I can't even use gunner in good conscience anymore. It feels like a witch hunt against gunners every time someone thinks of something inventive to do with them there goes sega with the nerf bat. And now what? Ban hammer really?

Achelousaurus
Jan 15, 2015, 05:23 AM
Wow, sega has reached a new low. Firs they nerf the shit out of gunner until it sucks, then the may CT the only good part of the class and now instead of just updating the game mechanics, they can't get their shit together and threaten to ban people using the classes sole redeeming abilitiy.

isCasted
Jan 15, 2015, 05:43 AM
Now I wasn't expecting this...

As it was said before, people safely abuse a lot of stuff that can be considered glitches, yet that feels valid to them. While actual game mechanics that are about applying math and skill (even as bullshit as this one) feel something worth banning for to them. I mean, with such mindset they might as well ban anyone who kills bosses in a single Satellite Cannon, or in a BA+Last Nemesis combo, or even those who abused S-Roll JA + Infinite Fire before EP3.

wefwq
Jan 15, 2015, 05:50 AM
JUST PATCH THE GAME ALREADY, Holy shit.

With this shit floating about i'm pretty sure people don't want to play with Gu cause muh the wild hunts.
Poor Gu, how the mighty one have fallen.

oratank
Jan 15, 2015, 05:51 AM
lol i just use it fuck yeah

Shady3011
Jan 15, 2015, 05:52 AM
Was anyone brave enough to try it? I can't imagine the monstrous amount of cubes you'd get from doing this now.

Aine
Jan 15, 2015, 05:54 AM
So this still works even if you use Chain Satellite Aim normally with GuRa instead (on the stomach, not the head), a bit slower than Chain Vol though.

From 13 SH runs and 1 XH run I got 201 cubes with a 250 booster.

Terrence
Jan 15, 2015, 05:58 AM
Before SEGA said this mechanic was not intended, you could use it. Now SEGA said it's not and you're warned not to use it, no need to whine SEGA this or SEGA that. You are said to stop doing something, you stop it. Does RESPECTING THE RULES mean something to you ?

TaigaUC
Jan 15, 2015, 06:00 AM
Just as well I'm done levelling Gunner and sold that bow already.

SEGA ought to ban everyone that used pre-nerf Shunka Shunran and JA stylish roll.
Those got nerfed pretty heavily, so we should all be banned for using them!

They're probably only threatening to ban people now that Magatsu actually fucking drops loot.

wefwq
Jan 15, 2015, 06:01 AM
Before SEGA said this mechanic was not intended, you could use it. Now SEGA said it's not and you're warned not to use it, no need to whine SEGA this or SEGA that. You are said to stop doing something, you stop it. Does RESPECTING THE RULES mean something to you ?
It IS also their own fault.
Why are they not patching it yesterday and just fly a warning regarding the "abuse".

Flaoc
Jan 15, 2015, 06:03 AM
cant say i ever cared for this

Vampy
Jan 15, 2015, 06:05 AM
There is a right to complain. Sure the mechanic wasn't intended but neither was the dash exploits. There is no need to chastise players SEGA needs to do their job and play test if it's not ready by all means delay it we have a balance "team" why not use it? This could have been avoided if sega was not lazy enough to patch it out when they noticed the issue. By all means it's fair game in my opinion.

Selphea
Jan 15, 2015, 06:06 AM
Fair enough, considering they upped the drops.

They probably pushed out the wrong build and left out the bugfix while changing the droprate.

On the other hand, the lesson here could just as well be to keep all super high damage formulas secret until -after- the boss' droprate is increased.

Walkure
Jan 15, 2015, 06:32 AM
It was already announced/expected that Chain Banishing/Volg was getting fixed. It's that they're threatening to ban people for exploiting it while it's out there that's different in this announcement.

They didn't do this for Nifta Bursting, Meteor Cudgel shift spam, etc. I guess they find this exploit much more of, well, an exploit on Magatsu than either of those were.

Angry_Ryudo
Jan 15, 2015, 06:40 AM
We could abuse the trick, and then apologize and give Sega some triboosts.

Xaeris
Jan 15, 2015, 06:52 AM
We could abuse the trick, and then apologize and give Sega some triboosts.

I laughed.

Rakurai
Jan 15, 2015, 07:23 AM
Seems like it's rare for me to not get at least one 11* drop per XH kill now.

Hope this means the prices on the lightning talis will bomb.

Z-0
Jan 15, 2015, 07:23 AM
There is a right to complain. Sure the mechanic wasn't intended but neither was the dash exploits. There is no need to chastise players SEGA needs to do their job and play test if it's not ready by all means delay it we have a balance "team" why not use it? This could have been avoided if sega was not lazy enough to patch it out when they noticed the issue. By all means it's fair game in my opinion.
About the whole dash exploit thing:

Sure, it wasn't intended, but SEGA is very well aware of it and they think it's a cool thing and plan to never patch it out. Player complaints just made them increase running speed rather than patch out dashing (which I think was the right thing to do).

(not at you) Just because something isn't intended doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad thing. I'm sure a lot of things we take for granted weren't exactly SEGA's idea of PSO2, but a game is made from the players, not by some developer dictatorship.

Xaelouse
Jan 15, 2015, 07:39 AM
Were pugs really banning anyone playing GU though? That sounds like an awful experience for those who only played the class

Z-0
Jan 15, 2015, 07:41 AM
All that was happening was English people making MPAs weren't letting anyone playing GU join them since they feared a ban. They were public organised MPAs (if that makes sense), being made over things like proxy chat and through people.

GU is probably still the best choice even without Vol or Banish though.

Cyber Meteor
Jan 15, 2015, 08:23 AM
I'm really wondering if SEGA really knows what to do with GU, it seems like they can't get how it could work since everytime they tweak this class something goes wrong, between the S-Roll nerf, Chain + Vol/Banish accumulation allowing to kill a 73 Millions HP boss in 30 secs, which should have been treated before or at the same time with S-roll if it wasn't intended since those PA's got released long time before EP3; wrong PA dmg which took 1 month to be reworked, the fact they had to say explicitely how GU should be used after these PA/class skills adjustement.

Wait... that last statement would mean they know what they want with GU but don't get how to translate it into a working gameplay? Whatever it could be, this threatening clearly says they are incompetent, they wouldn't have to put the ban hammer based on a game mechanic that exists for so long, and this late, if they knew what they were doing (it took the 30 secs Magatsu kills to make them notice that exploit......), they don't when it comes to GU. They got Ranger right, Force, techter, Fighter too, they can get a class working right so they have no excuses to justify that threatening especially since next maintenance will fix it which should happen next week.

They could let it go for the remaining week, lucky the ppl that get the 10+ runs of XH/SH magatsu during that, too bad for those who don't then end of the story after maintenance, they're not going to implement 12* passes before summer so it won't make a big difference, or it'll make the price of those 12* go lower with the number that'll be available.

All in all, i just don't get their reaction(ban threat) and their way of handling issues like this (Chain+Vol/BanArow exploit being fixed 1 week after Magatsu boosted drop rate instead of, at the same time).

Looks like that's what it really means when i see "I excpected SEGA to SEGA"........

Chrysheight
Jan 15, 2015, 08:44 AM
There is a right to complain. Sure the mechanic wasn't intended but neither was the dash exploits. There is no need to chastise players SEGA needs to do their job and play test if it's not ready by all means delay it we have a balance "team" why not use it? This could have been avoided if sega was not lazy enough to patch it out when they noticed the issue. By all means it's fair game in my opinion.

Speedrunning community could use more advocates like you. Someone who gets it.

Sega needs to learn how their game works and what it allows. The things it does and doesn't allow form the law of the game. If that law can be skewed, that's their fault. Maybe they should do their job better because as a community of players, there will always be people who try to push the limits further.

Aine
Jan 15, 2015, 08:56 AM
Putting aside the question of whether or not it's fair game, it's a dick move because if they wanted people to stop doing it they should have patched it immediately instead of leaving it for months and then threatening to ban people.

That said, this announcement was probably mostly due to people who have been complaining that organized MPAs are unfair compared to pubs (even before the drop changes people were complaining, but it really blew up since this maintenance).

Chrysheight
Jan 15, 2015, 09:00 AM
The banning isn't fair game. I agree, that's a dick move. The Vol/Banish chains are fair game though. Like you said, if they didn't want it done, they should've patched. I mean they patch over the littlest things as is.

Atmius
Jan 15, 2015, 09:00 AM
How are organised mpas unfair? They have coordination, which generally isn't seen in pubs. If they have an issue with it, why not simply organise their own instead?

The only 'unfair' portion could be that they dont know enough people who have the money to invest in equipment to run as many times as others might, but even then it's still a bad argument.

Rien
Jan 15, 2015, 09:10 AM
Putting aside the question of whether or not it's fair game, it's a dick move because if they wanted people to stop doing it they should have patched it immediately instead of leaving it for months and then threatening to ban people.

That said, this announcement was probably mostly due to people who have been complaining that organized MPAs are unfair compared to pubs (even before the drop changes people were complaining, but it really blew up since this maintenance).

SEGA is so incompetent with their own code that they can't fix chain vol/banish. Thus they have to threaten with bans to stop players from using it while they try to fix it.

Atmius
Jan 15, 2015, 09:24 AM
Wait for it - sega's solution will be to make it so you can only finish chains with assault rifles, tmgs, and launchers. Alternatively they'll flat out remove banish arrow and volg raptor until they come up with a solution.

Cyber Meteor
Jan 15, 2015, 09:28 AM
Wait for it - sega's solution will be to make it so you can only finish chains with assault rifles, tmgs, and launchers.

That's what i would have done with Chain Trigger, Ranged weapons only but i would have inculded bows and Gunslashes then. Or even better, only the CT user can get the dmg bonus from chain finish and build the chain.

Z-0
Jan 15, 2015, 09:53 AM
I am pretty sure only the user of the chain gets the extra damage anyway, but the direct party is able to build it.

I can see them patching it to be like that, since as Aine said, it's still possible to do over 10 runs easily with GuRa.


That said, this announcement was probably mostly due to people who have been complaining that organized MPAs are unfair compared to pubs (even before the drop changes people were complaining, but it really blew up since this maintenance).
I saw this argument on reddit today, it was stupid. Something along the lines of "this new magatsu drop rate is unfair because "tryhards" in organised MPAs will make far, far more than the average player and ruin the economy" or something.

isCasted
Jan 15, 2015, 09:57 AM
Alternatively they'll flat out remove banish arrow and volg raptor until they come up with a solution.

Am I the only one who doesn't see anything bad in that?

MidCap
Jan 15, 2015, 09:58 AM
They aren't banning anyone who did it up to this point. They're just saying, "Hey, we found this thing that ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THERE, so DON'T DO IT. We are going to fix it."

Taking advantage of system inconsistencies breaks the fourth wall of gaming and lessens the enjoyment of the experience.

The sad thing is, gamers like Z-0, who begin embracing this playstyle, tend to do it exclusively, and lose the true enjoyment of games; the subject matter of the game itself.

It's like pulling a book apart to look at its binding instead of reading it. It's a crappy way to experience a book.

Z-0
Jan 15, 2015, 10:00 AM
Yes, MidCap, please teach me how I'm supposed to enjoy games!

Ce'Nedra
Jan 15, 2015, 10:01 AM
Am I the only one who doesn't see anything bad in that?

As someone who only started to use Banishing Arrow 2 weeks ago: yes, yes you are.

SilenWhisper
Jan 15, 2015, 10:03 AM
Fix Glitch X

Player Ban O

SEGA

Bellion
Jan 15, 2015, 10:07 AM
12 players that enjoy working together >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 players that enjoy working against each other

Wow, shocking revelation. This is too much.

MidCap
Jan 15, 2015, 10:12 AM
I'm not telling you how to enjoy games, Z-0. I'm simply arguing that you've come to enjoy meta-gaming only, and can't enjoy something aesthetically. Or, at the very least, that's the way you appear to me.

It's okay to want to do well, but there's a clear difference between "doing well" and "finding something that was obviously unintended and exploiting it."

It's okay to do that kinda stuff in an offline game, but in an online game, we all have an obligation to catch things like this, report them, and see they are fixed; as to maintain the integrity and longevity of the game experience.

Walkure
Jan 15, 2015, 10:18 AM
It was already reported, known about, and announced to be an upcoming change weeks ago. It's been out in the open for a while, and most of the time these game mechanic intricacies filter to devs (and the userbase here), through public NicoVideo gameplay videos.

If you want an example of game exploits kept in secret by the community, and the resulting fallout, go check out the story of Salvage Bans from FFXI.

Xaeris
Jan 15, 2015, 10:20 AM
Was that the one where you'd use light crystals on rusted gear you fished up? Or is that something else?

Vintasticvin
Jan 15, 2015, 10:27 AM
Heres what I'm getting from this thread.

1.) Sega wants Magatsu to look like a major threat that has players tremble in fear when the preparation announcement for the EQ is broadcasted.

2.) Gunner is a bit too awesome Sega has to keep going Mike Haggard on them.

Shinmarizu
Jan 15, 2015, 10:27 AM
@MidCap: If you found an unintended but still-legal exploit in real life that allowed you to make money faster, would you continue to do it? Or would you declare 'hands off and nobody else do it'?

This is the sort of thing this game's testers and programmers should be finding and fixing immediately, not leaving it alone for players to use, stretch and abuse only for the devs to say they'll fix in 2 months, and further, threaten people who still use it.

This is only the most recent of many problems that were present, left alone, and then fixed much later, after players spent time and resources investing into builds that took advantage of exploits such as these.

Don't you see this as frustrating? That this game's experience is akin to an extended beta test? This is a glaring sign that its integrity and longevity are in question.

isCasted
Jan 15, 2015, 10:38 AM
As someone who only started to use Banishing Arrow 2 weeks ago: yes, yes you are.

As someone who played Ra/Br and Fo/Br for much longer than 2 weeks, I feel greatly annoyed by it. Its primary use is doubling damage for Last Nemesis, so why not just buff Last Nemesis instead (if it's really needed)? It's just another stacking multiplier, as if there's not enough stacking multipliers already. With design like this it was obvious that game balance eventually will get out of control.

A weapon that's all about single-target damage doesn't need an extra boost to single-target damage. It needed a boost to mobbing, and, well, charged BA has great AOE. All they had to do is to make it so enemy that got BA on it doesn't take damage until it explodes. BAM! An (arguably) amazing new gameplay mechanic! Instead it's used for bosses, because, if you try to use it on a mob, it dies and doesn't explode.

Partizan lacked bossing capability, so a PA that can be used on bosses was necessary, right? Well, not like this... It doesn't magically make Partizan playstyle naturally strong against bosses, it just makes mobbing PAs do more damage on bosses. That's lazy solution that they took instead of actually adding good/stylish single-target PAs. How come did Jet Boots not get something like VG/BA, but instead there's an actual PA that deals great damage in limited AOE?

I know you can also use Vol Graptor for breaking parts, but... Does it have to be done this way? Again, why does it have to replicate damage? Why not just make it move it? For example, you put VG on Loser's arm, then accumulate damage by hitting abdomen (that's always under WB), but instead that damage with all multipliers moves onto an arm! Another solution: since Vol Graptor is a projectile, make it useful for hitting weakspot damage if an actual weak spot is out of Partizan's reach.

I welcome strategies that involve manipulating an enemy, but right now Vol Graptor and Banishing Arrow strats are all about overpowering enemy with an extra large number.

MidCap
Jan 15, 2015, 10:40 AM
I'm not praising Sega for not catching this, but we needn't compromise the longevity / enjoyment of the game even further by picking at the wound. :/

Selphea
Jan 15, 2015, 10:45 AM
A lot of this is down to negligence and incompetence on Sega's part. If something is going to get a 300% multiplier and another thing a 200% multiplier, they should have been very very careful and very thorough in how they interact with each other (not to mention thought very hard about whether they were necessary in the first place). It's also absurd that they don't have some kind of logging system in place that sends an alert or creates a log entry when someone's damage exceeds a certain amount, and they can ninja-fix without it ever becoming a widespread issue. And after it goes public, leaving it around for over a month is just ridiculous.

But fixing it is fair game. Casual or not, PvE or not, I have never seen an online game where no skills and abilities ever see balance changes. It is honestly ass-backwards that they keep targeting Gunner when 45 million out of the 75 million damage burst on Magatsu came from the presence of a single Ranger packing a Weak Bullet debuff rather than the 11 other players using a burst on him. So from my perspective, their execution is very far off the mark, but the intent to ensure all classes have some kind of value in Magatsu is justifiable.

Banning is a dick move, but still fair game because these games are indeed dictatorships as per their ToS. Even if you strongly oppose this move, good luck trying to engage a lawyer to challenge it.

oratank
Jan 15, 2015, 10:45 AM
am ok with threatened to banned the one who use glitch. this is normal issue from game dev but please anounce it in the first place not just before eq that they'r worry about.

vantpers
Jan 15, 2015, 10:58 AM
I think banning people is needless. While it's something Sega left out working as it does and never wanted it working as it does (just how many multipliers actually apply to Volgraptor explosion), it's not like players need to go out of their way to use it. The glitch happens when someone uses a burst multiplier on a burst damage PA, the effect is just too great because Sega let Chain affect the explosion.

While it does need to get toned down, Sega might as well just let everyone exploit until next maintenance, it's their fault for what it does, no one even tried to break something. Not to forget that Chain + Banish/Volg is a legit mechanic that should be used, and now you can't because it's too good and you will get banned for doing it.

It's all due to Magatsu though or so I think. Somehow I doubt Sega will go out of their way looking for people using it on Bal Rodos. I guess they are afraid of Br/Gus dumping 30m into unboxing 9 stars.

And it's not really nerfing a Gunner. No one can really look at 12 people chain triggering and then popping arrows into Magatsu's face and say it's gunner gameplay, EP2 Hu/Brs Shunkaing things weren't called Hunters. Gunner probably won't be redeemed by just letting him have one broken ability anyway.

rashoood
Jan 15, 2015, 11:10 AM
did I miss something? so they are banning just for using banish arrow/vol graptor combos??

Selphea
Jan 15, 2015, 11:16 AM
I dunno, when I hear dingdingdingding and see the blue/yellow circle, I consider that a Gunner regardless of whether it's bullets, photon blades, arrows or swirly cyclone things building the Chain. When I see someone having a yellow Saiyan glow, I consider that a Fighter even if they spam Dispersion and throw out lots of blades. When I see the big red circle, I consider that a Ranger even if they swap to bow and do Chase x 3 Banish Nemesis/Pene.

Class mechanic vs class weapon is a grey area but IMO they both count. It's as much a nerf to Bow Braver as it is to Gunner, although Chain is the mechanic that's working double time in this combo rather than Banish.

Achelousaurus
Jan 15, 2015, 11:24 AM
We could abuse the trick, and then apologize and give Sega some triboosts.
This.
So very, very much.

Anyway, I wouldn't be particularly sorry to see Banish / vol Go.
And this is really ridiculous, sega are huge fuckeups and nothing else. I mean this combo is hardly different from all the othert multiplier stacking we already had before. Not to mention that Sega forced this themselves by adding more and more multipliers and only recently we got Chase Arrow

Then they fail to to fix this and punish players for their own incompetence.
Either sega are total retards that have no fucking clue about their own game or several people make conflicting decisions and everything gets fucked up cause they can't make up their mind.

And I honestly don't see what so horrible about a bunch of people getting a lot of rewards for one week (even if I highly doubt I will be able to benefit from this at all).


am ok with threatened to banned the one who use glitch. this is normal issue from game dev but please anounce it in the first place not just before eq that they'r worry about.
Pretty sure they also didn't continue to announce it. It's unbelievable, log in and do the eq (not to mention in only in like 90 seconds total or so) and you have now gotten yourself banned without any kind of warning cause they didn't broadcast the message properly.
Or do you at least get this message upon login?

vantpers
Jan 15, 2015, 11:25 AM
The thing is though, that the outcry about Gunner was based all around TMGs being useless. No one really subbed or mained Gu for anything else in EP2 as far as I remember, and yet people didn't really complain about it in general. When people say "poor Gunner" they mean a guy flying around with TMGs and barely scratching things.

As for me given how flexible sub/main system is, I expect to at least concentrate on the weapons of the class you are gonna call yourself just as much or more than whatever the other class uses.

Punisher106
Jan 15, 2015, 11:34 AM
Seeing that PSO seems to be down, is it safe to say that they decided to do emergency maintenance?

Maenara
Jan 15, 2015, 11:37 AM
It's not a glitch. It's an oversight, there's a difference.

Chain Trigger boosts the damage of anything that qualifies as a Photon Art. Banish Arrow and Vol Graptor both qualify as Photon Arts, so they both get bonus damage from Chain Trigger.

TaigaUC
Jan 15, 2015, 11:39 AM
More like it's poor balancing/design. Part of the problem is that PSO2 relies so heavily on multipliers.
Regardless, it's not something they ought to be waving the banhammer over.

The Walrus
Jan 15, 2015, 11:42 AM
...this is fucking stupid and sega should feel bad

GoldenFalcon
Jan 15, 2015, 12:01 PM
At first, you made it sound like something where the damage from Vol goes into Banish and vice versa

now I'm just considering how funny it is for Chain + Banish to be literally exponential.

LonelyGaruga
Jan 15, 2015, 01:03 PM
Wow, sega has reached a new low.

Dammit, that's what I was gonna say the moment I finished reading the opening post.


Before SEGA said this mechanic was not intended, you could use it. Now SEGA said it's not and you're warned not to use it, no need to whine SEGA this or SEGA that. You are said to stop doing something, you stop it. Does RESPECTING THE RULES mean something to you ?

Sega should have patched it. This mechanic is as old as Banish Arrow, which is as old as TD1. That's over a year. Sega should have patched it the moment people first started using CT BA or VG. But they did not. They didn't announce it was a "bug" until Magatsu came out. Do you change rules only when it becomes an inconvenience? Do you start banning people for things solely because they're doing something inconvenient to you? Is that really how a game company should handle things? No. They should have patched it. They have the power to. They announced they were going to patch it weeks ago. They have yet to. It's their fault that they have to threaten players with a ban. This is the most idiotic thing I've seen Sega do in my time playing. Zero respect for this.


They aren't banning anyone who did it up to this point. They're just saying, "Hey, we found this thing that ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THERE, so DON'T DO IT. We are going to fix it."

Taking advantage of system inconsistencies breaks the fourth wall of gaming and lessens the enjoyment of the experience.

The sad thing is, gamers like Z-0, who begin embracing this playstyle, tend to do it exclusively, and lose the true enjoyment of games; the subject matter of the game itself.

It's like pulling a book apart to look at its binding instead of reading it. It's a crappy way to experience a book.

They said that they'd fix it over three weeks ago. They still haven't. Now they're threatening to ban people. Three weeks after announcing they were going to fix it. And if people never embraced a game for how it was programmed instead of how it was intended, fighting games as they are now wouldn't exist. Among many fun glitches that would never have been popularized. Exploiting the game isn't fun for everyone, but damn if it isn't fun for some people. Let them have their fun. There's no such thing as a "true" way to enjoy anything.

And how does this break the fourth wall in any way? It's just a couple attacks being stronger than they should be. By a large margin. Is there anything fourth wall breaking about dash exploits? How about when Zonde was doing more damage than intended? Or when Namegid had its power notation reduced to be more accurate, but its power recipe stayed the same, giving it a 25% damage increase? Is any of that fourth wall breaking? More than the thousands of players running around in Rappy suits, box suits, reindeer suits, Lilipan suits, and now Shironian suits? How about the various collaborations that give out cosplay stuff? Dressing up as characters from different franchises entirely and using their weapons is less fourth wall breaking than doing more damage than intended? Seriously?


It's okay to want to do well, but there's a clear difference between "doing well" and "finding something that was obviously unintended and exploiting it."

Sega knows about all of the exploits. The only ones they care about are the ones they fix. Everything else, they're cool with. Even spawnkilling in Nab II/Wopal. They deliberately programmed it that way and don't mind or care about the unintended side effects of that programming.


As someone who played Ra/Br and Fo/Br for much longer than 2 weeks, I feel greatly annoyed by it. Its primary use is doubling damage for Last Nemesis, so why not just buff Last Nemesis instead (if it's really needed)?

Fo/Br? Last Nemesis? Yeah, no.

You're right though. BA and VG are for overpowering things with large numbers. That's their point. I already gave a detailed explanation for how versatile BA and VG can be within this category, but I guess it was missed or ignored. The only thing I feel like reiterating is that BA and VG let T-ATK partisans and bows actually do something better than actual tech weapons, which is something no simple multiplier in the game could do, and that alone makes them valid additions to the game in my book. Whatever the case, you're not the only person that wants it gone, but it's still a minority.


More like it's poor balancing/design. Part of the problem is that PSO2 relies so heavily on multipliers.

It's a little disconcerting to think that a team of game designers put this all together and didn't think there was any problems with it.

pkemr4
Jan 15, 2015, 01:09 PM
Sega Quality

Walkure
Jan 15, 2015, 01:29 PM
Was that the one where you'd use light crystals on rusted gear you fished up? Or is that something else?That's a bit different from the Salvage bans, even though I see where you'd get that.

[SPOILER-BOX]Salvage was an endgame event where you explored ancient ruins and completed objectives in a very time-limited manner, with restrictions to your character imposed at the start. People could enter in a standard party size (group of six). What some people eventually found out is that if they were to make an alliance (up to three parties join together) within the instance (basically split the party into three parties of 2 people, or other configurations), waited until an item dropped, and then disbanded the alliance, each party would have the same loot pool as the alliance before disbanding. So, if an item dropped, and it was very valuable (this was an endgame dungeon so a lot of stuff was either valuable or unique unsellable gear), you could make up to three copies of it in your group!

This was an exploit that was actually discovered much earlier than the developers discovered it, and it was kept tightly under wraps. Linkshellls across servers were very careful to keep the information secret so that the gravy train would keep rolling.

When Square Enix found out about this, and how long this was kept a secret, they were pissed.


The issue was fixed during emergency maintenance on November 26, 2008. However, we discovered that some players had already exploited the issue and used it to gain additional items before it was addressed. We then investigated more than a year's worth of logs throughout all areas.

As a result of the investigation, approximately 400 players were temporarily suspended based on the evidence gathered. Approximately 550 players who committed more serious misconduct had their accounts banned.Oh by the way, did I mention this was an endgame event? These were all very active, highly geared endgame players doing large-scale endgame activities who were banned.[/SPOILER-BOX]


Partizan lacked bossing capability, so a PA that can be used on bosses was necessary, right? Well, not like this... It doesn't magically make Partizan playstyle naturally strong against bosses, it just makes mobbing PAs do more damage on bosses. That's lazy solution that they took instead of actually adding good/stylish single-target PAs. How come did Jet Boots not get something like VG/BA, but instead there's an actual PA that deals great damage in limited AOE?Actually, there is a decent source of single-target damage in Zenith Throw, and it's why Zenith Throw Volg Combos have a really high DPS.


I dunno, when I hear dingdingdingding and see the blue/yellow circle, I consider that a Gunner regardless of whether it's bullets, photon blades, arrows or swirly cyclone things building the Chain. When I see someone having a yellow Saiyan glow, I consider that a Fighter even if they spam Dispersion and throw out lots of blades. When I see the big red circle, I consider that a Ranger even if they swap to bow and do Chase x 3 Banish Nemesis/Pene.I don't know about that. Someone who equips a weapon loadout exactly like an X and plays like X class, then they may as well be an X class whether or not they're actually maining Y for the main-only damage perks.

If Y class's weapons (and thus a good chunk of its playstyle) have no real niche or incentive to be used, that's a problem. If X class's main-only tree gives no real niche to be used, that's also a problem.

Shinamori
Jan 15, 2015, 01:36 PM
I thought they was gonna fix it pre UQ update.

isCasted
Jan 15, 2015, 02:02 PM
Fo/Br? Last Nemesis? Yeah, no.

Where did you see my post saying that I use or someone has to use Last Nemesis as Force? Of course it's combined with Namegid or Il Barta for tech users, but Ra/Br is far more popular combo. Fact that BA and LN were released on the same day especially prove my point. You just had to drop the context to make it sound stupid, didn't you?


I already gave a detailed explanation for how versatile BA and VG can be within this category, but I guess it was missed or ignored.

My post covered most if not all possible ways to keep their versatility without overpowering, so you are the one missing/ignoring the point.


The only thing I feel like reiterating is that BA and VG let T-ATK partisans and bows actually do something better than actual tech weapons, which is something no simple multiplier in the game could do, and that alone makes them valid additions to the game in my book.

Again, it could be done in a different way, and I explained that.


Whatever the case, you're not the only person that wants it gone, but it's still a minority.

That's what worries me. People don't want to think about different possibilities. For them it's only "yes" or "no".


Actually, there is a decent source of single-target damage in Zenith Throw, and it's why Zenith Throw Volg Combos have a really high DPS.

But that's just one PA, I guess? And it didn't serve its purpose, which is the reason why VG was added in first place.

Walkure
Jan 15, 2015, 02:12 PM
No, it really didn't. But they only recently buffed Zenith Throw to even work on bosses, after Vol Graptor combos were already a thing, so...

LonelyGaruga
Jan 15, 2015, 02:25 PM
Where did you see my post saying that I use or someone has to use Last Nemesis as Force? Of course it's combined with Namegid or Il Barta for tech users, but Ra/Br is far more popular combo. Fact that BA and LN were released on the same day especially prove my point. You just had to drop the context to make it sound stupid, didn't you?

The sole use you acknowledged was Last Nemesis. There was no context to drop. Fo/Br BA combos were a thing the moment Vibras Bow came out, and that was the same time BA came out, so Fo/Br is just as old as BA + LN...and Ra/Br wasn't a thing until Sharpshooter came out much later. In fact, Br/Ra and Br/Hu Kamikaze Arrow combos with BA were standard before Sharpshooter came out. And Te/Br's been pretty solid since Rikauteri came out, so we have two class combos for abusing techs + bows differently and just one doing BA + LN. And Force is the strongest class right now.

Never mind how fallacious it is to say that a class combo is popular because two useful PAs were released at the same time. Makes no sense at all.


My post covered most if not all possible ways to keep their versatility without overpowering, so you are the one missing/ignoring the point.

Yeah...uh, no it didn't. You suggested a poor AoE attack for bows that would be useless, fail to realize that VG and BA do things that can't be done by simply buffing damage dealing attacks, and suggest a completely inferior use for breaking parts with VG.


Again, it could be done in a different way, and I explained that.

You never acknowledged VG and BA could be used with techs in the first place. Making BA an AoE worsens its tech usage, buffing tech damage buffs tech damage for everyone and not just Fo/Br or Fo/Hu, and VG would still be completely inferior with your suggestion.


That's what worries me. People don't want to think about different possibilities. For them it's only "yes" or "no".

Then think of something actually worthwhile. Not that Sega would ever take your suggestions. They don't care. They aren't going to change how BA or VG work just because you don't like it. So what do you think you can accomplish by speculating on ways to make it more to your liking?


But that's just one PA, I guess? And it didn't serve its purpose, which is the reason why VG was added in first place.

Except VG was before the EP3 rebalance, and Zenith Throw was only changed like a month ago. And VG makes Zenith Throw even better at doing what it does, which is the point of VG. Making PAs do more damage situationally. Buffing Slide End and all the other mobbing PAs just makes them even better at everything they could do, while VG provides a controlled environment with strict limitations. Same deal with BA.

isCasted
Jan 15, 2015, 02:42 PM
...

I really don't get what you are trying to do. You bring up stuff that I never intended to mention because it had nothing to do with my point. You are saying things that have nothing to do with the conversation at all. You put certain statements of mine into wrong context just because I said more than one thing before those statements.

Trying to explain anything to you is a waste of time.

LonelyGaruga
Jan 15, 2015, 02:59 PM
Your point was an overly simplified stance on how BA and VG function. Of course I would bring up stuff that had nothing to do with your initial point. You were never looking at them from a broad enough angle to begin with.

Shady3011
Jan 15, 2015, 03:25 PM
It's a little disconcerting to think that a team of game designers put this all together and didn't think there was any problems with it.

It seems to be pretty common in most F2P games though this is the first time I've seen a dev threaten bans over it.

Kazzi
Jan 15, 2015, 03:40 PM
I was booted from 3 parties earlier just for being a gunner when Magatsu went up :( I know they love nerfing gunners as a hobby, but they're actually making other players actively avoid them right now.

DeificEpyon
Jan 15, 2015, 03:45 PM
I was booted from 3 parties earlier just for being a gunner when Magatsu went up :( I know they love nerfing gunners as a hobby, but they're actually making other players actively avoid them right now.

Wow, that's pretty ridiculous. Gunner is one of my favorite classes too. This whole thing has really been blown out of proportion.

SEGA may as well have banned the class from the game at this point.

That really sucks too, since Magatsu is worth the trouble of playing now.

EvilMag
Jan 15, 2015, 03:51 PM
you know people say the new director is a good guy and knows his shit but after seeing the continent nerfs he's been doing to gunner, I almost want to say he's equally made stupid decisions than the last guy.

Z-0
Jan 15, 2015, 03:53 PM
New director doesn't know his shit at all.

Episode 3 balance is a fraud, it's still just as unbalanced, just things are stronger overall, but still a huge discrepancy and the most OP are still necessary for all the best stuff.

EvilMag
Jan 15, 2015, 03:54 PM
lol fire fos. only good thing he's done is making wand smacking Te a viable class now.

Z-0
Jan 15, 2015, 04:00 PM
It's not even fire FOs, it's just FOs in general. Fire FOs are just a problem because they're especially good for Tower Defense.

Bolt FO is absolutely ridiculous with Ilzonde doing like 15K+ per tick, and Zonde can hit 20K no problem. Inside a Zondeel these techs do even more damage. Sazonde with a lightning elysion is also insane as it does like 15K+ per tick. Uncharged. Adding Zandeon too was stupid as Bolt/Wind FO can hit so much damage on some bosses if you make it so you collide instead of go in circles.

Ice FO also does a whole lot using Gibarta, Rabarta, Ilbarta and Nabarta, not really much to say. Gibarta has huge AoE, Nabarta works great in Zondeels, Ilbarta is still way too OP, Rabarta is good if you don't have Nabarta for some reason.

Light FO is great because Ragrants is incredible damage now with the Charge Time recipe, and Ilgrants is a good long ranged tech which is great for panic on some bosses (Bibras and Anga)

Dark FO and Wind FO still suck, but Dark is still great to use in DArk areas, especially Ilmegid if Zondeel doesn't work for a spawn, otherwise Gimegid extremely fast in Zondeels. Dark still doesn't have the speed factor like fire, bolt and light though, since its techs are kind of slow. Gimegid is the fastest and that's like one tech.

Wind FO is alright for the bird darkers, since charged Razan is stronger than charged power Sazan (not a joke), and Elysion Sazan with power can do even more (you don't need the PP recipe with how much damage it does, unless you're using it on literally everything which you shouldn't be).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgBxTV_UQpk

Oh, and Jet Boots didn't help either. Tech > Step > Tech is faster than Tech > Tech, so if you're strong enough to be able to non-JA stuff, you can move along quickly, especially if you're Zondeel'ing > Tech. This applies to non-TA stuff as well. Wand can do the same but only as FoTe, and has a slower casting animation.

vantpers
Jan 15, 2015, 04:13 PM
I really don't get all that gunner nerf talk. It doesn't affect anyone using TMGs at all. Partizan and Bow totting "gunners" need not apply.

And EP3 balance is still better than whatever was before. Braver doesn't overshadow every other melee class for example, Techter got better, Ranger got some nerfs for sat cannon, and Hunter and Fighter were pretty massively buffed, and WB got hit a small bit. It also made the variety type balance better. Many weapons moved on from using 3 PAs max to being able to use almost all PAs for something else than fun or that one situations that happens once in that specific spot during that specific time. Dual Sabers had a particularly fun PA rebalance.

The problem is that WB still exists with too big of a multipliers, Force has been actually buffed at points, and you got Gu/Br killing something that was meant to take good 10 minutes in 20 times less. And of course TMGs are dead. I feel like there is a much smaller gap between Force and Hunter in various TDs, surely you won't be bringing Hus to try harding groups but in pugs it's not that bad, singular Rafoie spammers in particular are much worse there and often having kind of similar effect as 4k ilmegids previously when they don't know what they are doing, of course Rafoie spammer isn't a particularly skilled Force but in most cases there is enough of a progress going from EP2 or even EP3 pre XH. Bosses are now broken by certain class combinations but I don't think there is any class besides Gunner that can be said to do no damage when comparing to something that doesn't have to do with chain and banish.

Radical Dreamer
Jan 15, 2015, 04:34 PM
Goes to show that Sega doesn't give a damn about players who come up with new ways to play the game.

... and in the interest of not starting another flame war, that's all I'm going to say about that.

Selphea
Jan 15, 2015, 06:30 PM
*SH TA Video*

TAs are one difficulty level behind, so I'm not sure if they're a very good benchmark. IMO they should be a mix of movement optimization, including movement DPS, as well as raw DPS. However, with mobs being 14 levels below players, it becomes too much about the former. But yes, balance could use some improvement.


I don't know about that. Someone who equips a weapon loadout exactly like an X and plays like X class, then they may as well be an X class whether or not they're actually maining Y for the main-only damage perks.

If Y class's weapons (and thus a good chunk of its playstyle) have no real niche or incentive to be used, that's a problem. If X class's main-only tree gives no real niche to be used, that's also a problem.

It's definitely a problem, but lets take it to another context - Ra/Hu, Gu/Ra and Ra/Br. All capable of planting Weak Bullet and oneshotting bosses. The Gu/Ra equips a weapon loadout exactly like a TMG Gunner and plays like a Gunner. The Ra/Br equips a weapon loadout exactly like a Bow Braver and plays like a Bow Braver. The Ra/Hu... well that's a Ranger through and through, except with Massive Automate.

What is the common thread here though? It's not the TMGs, it's not the Bow, it's the 2.41x multiplier from WHA and Standing Snipe multiplied by 2.55x Weak Bullet and a further 1.2x main class skill on top of all that. So IMO the mechanics matter just as much as the weapon in determining whether a combination is strong due to class A or class B.


The thing is though, that the outcry about Gunner was based all around TMGs being useless. No one really subbed or mained Gu for anything else in EP2 as far as I remember, and yet people didn't really complain about it in general. When people say "poor Gunner" they mean a guy flying around with TMGs and barely scratching things.

As for me given how flexible sub/main system is, I expect to at least concentrate on the weapons of the class you are gonna call yourself just as much or more than whatever the other class uses.

TMGs are actually pretty strong right now though. Magatsu is just one context where there's a slow-moving, slow-attacking, poorly defended, huge target with a "BURST ME" sign pasted on it. But in other instances, TMGs would be a better option due to being able to build and finish a Chain faster and having access to a Shift dodge that can cancel PAs. Of course, in those instances they might as well be a Gu/Ra instead of Gu/Br. As a main though, Gu/Br TMGs can be useful, just not in something that can be shown in a 31 second Magatsu video.

One example, I play Gu/Bo and how I handle Banthers is to break Banshee's face, Chain it for a fast kill then swap to Dual Blades, pop PBF and fill Banther's mouth with photon blades while it goes "Raaaawwr" after Banshee dies. But if you cut the footage to just Banshee, it's TMGs doing all the work, and if you cut to just Banther, it's just DBs. A few seconds is not enough to show the full picture.

But yes Chain Graptor/Banish needs nerf. I just find it strange that they're targeting only that when there's another factor at work here i.e. WB, and I hope they figure out what to do with TMG Gunner as well so that it isn't bound to Ranger as a crutch.

Achelousaurus
Jan 15, 2015, 06:48 PM
It's not a glitch. It's an oversight, there's a difference.

Chain Trigger boosts the damage of anything that qualifies as a Photon Art. Banish Arrow and Vol Graptor both qualify as Photon Arts, so they both get bonus damage from Chain Trigger.
So, how do you feel about your bread and butter being taken away?


It's not even fire FOs, it's just FOs in general. Fire FOs are just a problem because they're especially good for Tower Defense.

Bolt FO is absolutely ridiculous with Ilzonde doing like 15K+ per tick, and Zonde can hit 20K no problem. Inside a Zondeel these techs do even more damage. Sazonde with a lightning elysion is also insane as it does like 15K+ per tick. Uncharged. Adding Zandeon too was stupid as Bolt/Wind FO can hit so much damage on some bosses if you make it so you collide instead of go in circles.

Ice FO also does a whole lot using Gibarta, Rabarta, Ilbarta and Nabarta, not really much to say. Gibarta has huge AoE, Nabarta works great in Zondeels, Ilbarta is still way too OP, Rabarta is good if you don't have Nabarta for some reason.

Light FO is great because Ragrants is incredible damage now with the Charge Time recipe, and Ilgrants is a good long ranged tech which is great for panic on some bosses (Bibras and Anga)

Dark FO and Wind FO still suck, but Dark is still great to use in DArk areas, especially Ilmegid if Zondeel doesn't work for a spawn, otherwise Gimegid extremely fast in Zondeels. Dark still doesn't have the speed factor like fire, bolt and light though, since its techs are kind of slow. Gimegid is the fastest and that's like one tech.

Wind FO is alright for the bird darkers, since charged Razan is stronger than charged power Sazan (not a joke), and Elysion Sazan with power can do even more (you don't need the PP recipe with how much damage it does, unless you're using it on literally everything which you shouldn't be).

PSO2????????SH TA?Fo/Br?4?02 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgBxTV_UQpk)

Oh, and Jet Boots didn't help either. Tech > Step > Tech is faster than Tech > Tech, so if you're strong enough to be able to non-JA stuff, you can move along quickly, especially if you're Zondeel'ing > Tech. This applies to non-TA stuff as well. Wand can do the same but only as FoTe, and has a slower casting animation.
A friend of mine runs a lightning build. He melts stuff before I can even turn the direction it used to exist.
Once I get more used to fore I'll get some more trees and try some more stuff, lightning is first on the list.

Gu is good for CT but I find it really sad that's the only thing it is good for. CT has op multipliers at high chain count when enemy ai is very important (I had more chains broken by things like chrome suddenly jumping out of range or vol suddenly burying than I can count) as is ping (!@"$%&) and you kinda need extra multipliers like WHA.
If not with these it kinda sucks.
I had a 40hit chain recently on Chrome's WBed face and I did 4200 a hit with ER. lvl 66 GuHu with 2200 r-atk and 5% ja boost potential.
Unless you play a very specific way, Gu just sucks. All other classes allow for a lot more freedom and especially, are not sorta pointless outside their long CD boss killing skills.

AzurEnd
Jan 15, 2015, 07:19 PM
So, how do you feel about your bread and butter being taken away?
Im fairly new to this but is this the thing where you can pretty much kill a boss in 2 hits using a Bullet Bow? If so you can read my opinion on this below and if it isnt you can ignore it and correct me.

[SPOILER-BOX]Thats more like hoarding it away so nobody else can have some.

Not sure about most of you but I actually like FIGHTING a boss rather than just being there for decoration while someone proceeds to kill the boss in 2seconds flat taking away from the rest of the groups enjoyment.


The fact they are threatening to ban people for using it is understandable but not cool either since this was a major oversight on them.

At the same time im glad they are addressing this. Even if its a laid back PvE based game with little in the way of Leader Boards something like THAT existing is just... Yeah. It takes away from the experience of others.


I dont really understand the mentality of people behind this game but thats just how I personally feel.[/SPOILER-BOX]

untrustful
Jan 15, 2015, 07:19 PM
Danbo Suit Incident?

Dephinix
Jan 15, 2015, 07:28 PM
Think we'll get more skill resets?

untrustful
Jan 15, 2015, 07:39 PM
We will always get more skill resets. SEGA leaves so much behind, and adds new things every couple months that we'll always get those resets.

Dephinix
Jan 15, 2015, 07:47 PM
Well, I mean since they basically screwed anyone over with a Gu/Br build. Like, a skill reset for THIS situation, in particular.

Ordy
Jan 15, 2015, 07:49 PM
1. cap damage
2. have a weekly/monthly PA/tech fix like MOBA games stats
3. 20m damage is sick, killing Magatsu in 30sec is not right, and shouldn't exist at all IMO, same goes for all the spawn kills in TA/AIS TD ... unlike tri/quad/penta dash, that's like bunny hopping in a fps, who cares.
4. Vol/banish on CT nerf = Upvote, SEGA asking players not to use it because they were lazy/uncompetent = Downvote
5. I FUCKING LOVE LISTS !!!


Danbo Suit Incident?

Did you even (try to) read the thread? First page, last post.


Think we'll get more skill resets?

No, why should they?

Kiyumi
Jan 15, 2015, 07:51 PM
While personally I think people 1shotting things is stupid, nobody should be banned for finding out a way to play even if its not "intended". Just patch it so it doesnt work. They were unable to patch it in a timely manner, so threatening bans for anyone who uses something thats still in the game? Thats not how things should be done. My two cents.

Dephinix
Jan 15, 2015, 07:54 PM
No, why should they?

They're changing something pretty major, and making Gu/Br pretty much useless, so it would be nice, especially after all the
threats being handed out. Gu/Hu will still be "ok", but I don't see how anyone can salvage Gu/Br. And no, I do not use Gu/Br, I
just wouldn't mind a ton of skill tree resets.

Ordy
Jan 15, 2015, 08:03 PM
I wouldn't call an "exploit" - let's all be honest, that's what it is - something major. They are just changing how CT works with Ban and Vol THAT'S IT, and now people are QQing GU nerf again, oh please FFS that combo is not even playing a Gunner.

Seriously, PSO2 community is full of hypocrites, I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in particular.

HopelessHero
Jan 15, 2015, 09:05 PM
So uh.
Am I the only person that just thinks a sprint mechanic would be cool? I mean, ALONG WITH the current steps/rolls/shimmersteps/whathaveyou?

red1228
Jan 15, 2015, 09:20 PM
So uh.
Am I the only person that just thinks a sprint mechanic would be cool? I mean, ALONG WITH the current steps/rolls/shimmersteps/whathaveyou?

Consume PP to run even faster? I'm down with that.

Maenara
Jan 15, 2015, 09:23 PM
So, how do you feel about your bread and butter being taken away?

I haven't used it in nearly a month. After they said they were going to fix it, I changed to a FI/GU gunslash build.

HopelessHero
Jan 15, 2015, 09:25 PM
Consume PP to run even faster? I'm down with that.

Well, PP wasn't quite what I had in mind, but that's not a bad idea if the speed increase is worth the PP burn. I was just thinking more like you can sprint about the same speed as you see the ARKS in the intro videos do during their s00per-k3wl parkour. Maybe even tweak jumps or something too so you can mantle obstacles or do sweet flips or something. Definitely beats the goofy three stages of run speed we have now, with the being-slow-while-holding-weapons nonsense as well. Makes the parkour part of Amduscia's TA a pain in the ass.

I'unno man. Just spitballin' here.

Addendum: And it would be HELLA useful in Mining Base Defense.

Addendum 2: The Sequel: I just noticed I said "PP Burn". Heheheheh.

Walkure
Jan 15, 2015, 09:35 PM
I approve as long as jumping animations also change to be spinning flips like in said intro videos.

If the Super Mario switch platforms on Amduscia are troubling you because of the run speeds, then you can just use Step to cover the horizontal distance across each platform.

Nitro Vordex
Jan 16, 2015, 03:33 AM
I had a 40hit chain recently on Chrome's WBed face and I did 4200 a hit with ER. lvl 66 GuHu with 2200 r-atk and 5% ja boost potential.
Unless you play a very specific way, Gu just sucks. All other classes allow for a lot more freedom and especially, are not sorta pointless outside their long CD boss killing skills.
I'm going to tentatively guess that you messed up your build.

Aine
Jan 16, 2015, 03:45 AM
Welp I just got banned for a week (together with most of the people in my group) even though we only used Chain TMG like you're supposed to

Never change SEGA

Xaeris
Jan 16, 2015, 03:48 AM
That's just pants on head stupid. Banning for Banishing/Vol Trigger is one thing (a stupid thing), but Chain Trigger Sat Aim is literally what you're meant to do with it. That's just banning you for being a Gunner playing with other Gunners that aren't terrible.

I'm starting to think Suganama played a Force in Episode 2 and got beaten by a Gunner in TD one too many times.

Aine
Jan 16, 2015, 03:50 AM
I didn't actually play Gunner myself so they're definitely checking for how many runs or rares you picked up in one EQ instance or something.

Xaeris
Jan 16, 2015, 03:52 AM
Hmm, you said most of the people in your group. Did a couple escape the banhammer, or have they just not checked in yet?

Aine
Jan 16, 2015, 03:54 AM
They weren't online at the time, we were preparing for TD2 and we all got disconnected at the same time.

Ce'Nedra
Jan 16, 2015, 04:13 AM
Wonder if they will also ban someone like me who just used Chase Arrow and Nemesis with Banishing on Magatsu :/

Looks like they are serious on it though.

Z-0
Jan 16, 2015, 05:47 AM
hah, now I'm somewhat glad we completely fucked up our Magatsu runs last night. Who knows what might have happened if we actually succeeded to get full runs?

(had too little GuRa and took too long to open the stomach due to not 12/12 and properly optimised classes, plus Magatsu warps for us when he does the recovering animation)

Xaeris
Jan 16, 2015, 05:53 AM
(had too little GuRa)

Now here's something no one ever expected anyone to say in Episode 3.

Z-0
Jan 16, 2015, 06:17 AM
I'm stalking the Japanese twittersphere, and it seems that A LOT of people have gotten banned. Naturally, everyone is very mad over it as all these people didn't use Chain Vol or Chain Banish, but either used GuRa chains or mass RaBr Banish Nemesis to do 10~15 runs each.

Example of what people are doing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROSRurw4DA

Mattykins
Jan 16, 2015, 06:20 AM
I dunno what's funnier; the fact that this happened or that some people in this thread are still sucking Sega's dick and running to their defense over it. :V

Z-0
Jan 16, 2015, 06:23 AM
One party got banned for using 11 FO and 1 RA, so SEGA are definitely banning people who are basically "too good" at the game, and doing what SEGA classifies as too many runs.

Xaelouse
Jan 16, 2015, 06:47 AM
Hopefully this brings to light of what actually needs to get nerfed in this game (again)

wefwq
Jan 16, 2015, 06:55 AM
Are those ban permanent or just temporary?
or semi-permanent where you have to appeal your ban in order to recover the banned ID?

Z-0
Jan 16, 2015, 06:56 AM
166 hour bans.

Atmius
Jan 16, 2015, 06:57 AM
Hopefully this brings to light of what actually needs to get nerfed in this game (again)

Magatsu HP, clearly.

Aeris
Jan 16, 2015, 06:59 AM
Its Temporary for 1 week as said from Aine from the previous page.

Shinamori
Jan 16, 2015, 07:45 AM
One party got banned for using 11 FO and 1 RA, so SEGA are definitely banning people who are basically "too good" at the game, and doing what SEGA classifies as too many runs.

I guess Sega will ban any party with Ra, Gu, or Br.

Maenara
Jan 16, 2015, 07:47 AM
This is amazing.

Shinamori
Jan 16, 2015, 07:49 AM
They should just do an emergency maintenance and just patch it.

Xaeris
Jan 16, 2015, 07:49 AM
I'm guessing they set up some kind of automation, so we can probably expect to see some reversals on these bans if 2ch throws enough tables over. What are you guys going to do with your 100% Tri-boost?

n_n
Jan 16, 2015, 07:53 AM
Just give out free esthe passes and everyone will forget this ever happened.

Xaeris
Jan 16, 2015, 07:56 AM
Fft, if I got temp banned under such BS pretenses, you couldn't buy me off that cheap. Like, you'd need to give me a salon pass and a color change pass.

Syklo
Jan 16, 2015, 07:56 AM
That's just pants on head stupid. Banning for Banishing/Vol Trigger is one thing (a stupid thing), but Chain Trigger Sat Aim is literally what you're meant to do with it. That's just banning you for being a Gunner playing with other Gunners that aren't terrible.

I'm starting to think Suganama played a Force in Episode 2 and got beaten by a Gunner in TD one too many times.
Basically, I'm living on the edge just by playing gunner?

Welp, glad I'm a bit weak then :P

Ce'Nedra
Jan 16, 2015, 08:14 AM
Basically, I'm living on the edge just by playing gunner?

Welp, glad I'm a bit weak then :P

Casuals ftw /o/ We stand strong for once. The irony ._.

As long you never took part of those 1 min runs you should be fine I guess despite your class combo.

wefwq
Jan 16, 2015, 08:15 AM
Just give out free esthe passes and everyone will forget this ever happened.
You forgot Triboost +100% x1.

Bellion
Jan 16, 2015, 08:20 AM
[SPOILER-BOX]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7dtbusCAAALn59.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Gu×

jooozek
Jan 16, 2015, 09:09 AM
haha what the fuck is going i don't even

Terrence
Jan 16, 2015, 09:35 AM
It's really funny to see bad faith of people here, asking if they gonna be banned just because they use a PA or even a game mechanic.
You KNEW it was an exploit and you were WARNED. I'm not enjoying seeing what happened to you but it's time to take it apon yourself.
Discharge your bile on SEGA seems to be a national sport, here. Why not admitting you played with fire and get burned ? You'd feel better !

Bellion
Jan 16, 2015, 09:40 AM
Players were banned even for just killing Magatsu too fast without using a combination of Chain Trigger + Volg/BANish. They only warned of banning people that used those 2 combinations and nothing else. They underestimated what organized players are capable of and used a flawed as heck auto-ban system. SEGA deserves to get crapped on at this point.

Ce'Nedra
Jan 16, 2015, 09:41 AM
[SPOILER-BOX]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7dtbusCAAALn59.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Gu×

What does it even say for us that can't read Japanse?

Z-0
Jan 16, 2015, 09:42 AM
The majority of people who got banned never used Chain Banish or Chain Vol Graptor after it was announced people would get banned for it, but found other legitimate methods to do Magatsu quickly, and got banned for doing too many runs because SEGA believes people can't do Magatsu quickly without Chain Banish.

Also, it's not really an exploit as far as I'm concerned. SEGA just didn't mark that Banish and Vol shouldn't get boosted by Chain. It's an oversight rather than an exploit or bug, and people should stop acting like people are the devil for using it in the past.

@ Ce'Nedra

Gunner's name was changed to "Banner", and the end of the tool tip says "Use Chain Trigger in order to get your account suspended!" or something akin to that effect.

Ce'Nedra
Jan 16, 2015, 09:43 AM
I think it's obvious lol

No really I can't read anything so no clue what it says otherwise I wouldn't ask :V

Bellion
Jan 16, 2015, 09:44 AM
The 2 important parts of the pic:

Banner(You know, replace Gu with Ba)
Furthermore, by means of Chain Trigger, your account can also be banned.

Ce'Nedra
Jan 16, 2015, 09:49 AM
Sounds fun.

Maenara
Jan 16, 2015, 10:30 AM
haha what the fuck is going i don't even

Amazing things.

MidCap
Jan 16, 2015, 10:46 AM
Also, it's not really an exploit as far as I'm concerned. SEGA just didn't mark that Banish and Vol shouldn't get boosted by Chain. It's an oversight rather than an exploit or bug, and people should stop acting like people are the devil for using it in the past.

If Sega catches the oversight and says, "This was discovered. We are going to fix it. If you continue to use this, it is now considered an exploit," then it IS an exploit. This is not a matter of discussion. Your opinion means absolutely zero in this particular case.

My take on it? I'm not playing Magatsu at all until this is fixed. Hunting for Quartz Souls while the Limited Quest is up (since Quartz Dragon doesn't show up there) is way more profitable.

It's not even a fun quest, anyway. I'll be standing flat-footed on one of the platforms and fall to the ground when Magatsu "warps" forward because I don't have an internet connection in Japan. How fun.

Edit: For those who got banned who didn't use the exploit, I agree that's BS. My rebuttal above is only regarding how this IS an exploit, which isn't a matter of opinion.

vaerix
Jan 16, 2015, 11:46 AM
Banned for "proper," non-exploitative usage of Chain Trigger? Yeah, okay, Sega.

Why should they care about too many runs? I don't see the logic. You give us a quest that appears randomly, so it's obvious that your players will learn optimization.

LonelyGaruga
Jan 16, 2015, 11:51 AM
It's really funny to see bad faith of people here, asking if they gonna be banned just because they use a PA or even a game mechanic.
You KNEW it was an exploit and you were WARNED. I'm not enjoying seeing what happened to you but it's time to take it apon yourself.
Discharge your bile on SEGA seems to be a national sport, here. Why not admitting you played with fire and get burned ? You'd feel better !

It's still Sega's fault for not patching it when they announced they would. And, as Z-0 and Bellion said, people are getting banned even without using BA + CT or VG + CT, or even CT at all. People are getting banned simply because they're competent enough to kill Magatsu faster than Sega likes. There is zero room for tolerance over what Sega is doing.


If Sega catches the oversight and says, "This was discovered. We are going to fix it. If you continue to use this, it is now considered an exploit," then it IS an exploit. This is not a matter of discussion. Your opinion means absolutely zero in this particular case.

They didn't just catch this oversight. They already knew about it. The only reason they're patching it is because of Magatsu, because they designed a boss where they don't want this mechanic around. Up until Magatsu came out, Sega knew about it and did nothing, meaning that it was intentional, that until now they were cool with it, and that they're calling it an exploit to save face. The real intention is obvious. They just don't want people killing Magatsu too quickly.

The Walrus
Jan 16, 2015, 11:52 AM
Ahhhhhhh, nothing like waking and seeing that Sega fucked up hard.

They did it again \o/

n_n
Jan 16, 2015, 12:02 PM
My take on it? I'm not playing Magatsu at all until this is fixed. Hunting for Quartz Souls while the Limited Quest is up (since Quartz Dragon doesn't show up there) is way more profitable.
Idk what ship you're on, but I disagree. Quartz soul has gone down by a considerable amount and is not worth spamming over "cube EQs." lol 5s unit (no atk3) being only 1m and anything below that is super cheap.

From what I've heard you can get close to 100 cubes with a 250 from 4~5 SH runs (although my friend got over 150 from a "legitimate MPA."). On average I get about 8~10M worth of Risk Reduct. +1, Grind Rate +5% etc from fun scratch with that many (~100) cubes.

So with that said, no, Quartz AQ farming is not more profitable than Maggot.

MidCap
Jan 16, 2015, 12:07 PM
I'd rather have money than Cubes. I have hundreds of Cubes. Converting Cubes into money requires Fun Scratch, and even the newest Fun Scratch items lose value almost immediately.

On average, you will NOT make 8m off of 100 Cubes. You're exaggerating greatly, or very lucky.

Conversely, I've been watching prices on the souls that aren't available in the LQ, and they're rising steadily. I only provided Quartz as one example. In general: I'd rather make money than play Magatsu. He doesn't feel like a real boss; the fight is too gimmicky and lame.

n_n
Jan 16, 2015, 12:15 PM
Re-read my post...

8~10M worth of Risk Reduct. +1, Grind Rate +5%
Grind stuff are the money items. Everything else is worthless (except looped LAs and maybe a hairstyle like the current one)

No, I'm not exaggerating one bit. I'm assuming you have never done mass FUN scratch before because you seem a bit clueless. All I can say is try it for yourself.

edit:
Old picture, prices are a bit higher than now... but not a /huge/ difference.

From ~150 cubes.
http://puu.sh/eBl33/dfb962e8d5.jpg

Z-0
Jan 16, 2015, 12:34 PM
Yes you will make 8M off 100 cubes (or something significant, anyway).

Last time I burned like 150K-200K fun (lazy to convert into cubes), made like 40M. Think it was during a high-point of risks though, but you will still make a good amount.

Quartz AQ is good money (well, was, it's mediocre now), but it will never beat Tower Defense or Magatsu. And if we're talking luck, just make your 200 10*s into spheres, wow 12mil right there!

TaigaUC
Jan 16, 2015, 12:42 PM
Biggest money suckers are probably lobby action/hairstyles/accessories, and grinding/affixing 11-12 stars.
EXPcubes = significantly reduce failure rate of grinding/affixing = save huge amounts of cash.
In other words, EXPcubes = potentially worth tons of money.

It's not just about how much money you have, but how little you throw away.
Not to mention that you could make money from selling grinded/affixed stuff.
Many people are willing to throw extra money at a fully grinded/affixed item than waste their time trying their luck.

MidCap
Jan 16, 2015, 12:43 PM
I'm always willing to admit I'm wrong if it means more profit. I will have to look into this. I would enjoy the quest more if it weren't so buggy :/

Of course, I've never run it on SH (I've only done XH so far), so I imagine a greatly shortened run is much less frustrating.

Bellion
Jan 16, 2015, 12:48 PM
You could even go for VH if all you want are cubes. . _.b

Z-0
Jan 16, 2015, 12:50 PM
Don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure we got more cubes from VH than the SH runs. 6 VH for 85 and 5 SH for about 50? Seems like a big difference. Runs take about the same amount of time I believe, although you could probably squeeze in more VH if you tried since it's half HP.

I'm scared to try and make sure we do well next time Magatsu comes up though, just incase SEGA gives us the banhammer. ;w;

One guy on Ship 1 got 250 cubes from VH13/SH1 as well.

TaigaUC
Jan 16, 2015, 12:51 PM
I really enjoyed Gu/Br on Magatsu. Refreshingly different style to play bow at close range whilst trying to get the largest chain finish possible.
Bored of every other viable combination. SEGA hates fun.

Magatsu VH huh. Guess I should try that.

EvilMag
Jan 16, 2015, 01:17 PM
Lets do N Magastu and see how many cubes we get! Also see how many people get banned!

Macman
Jan 16, 2015, 01:53 PM
Limit players to 3 or 4 Magatsu runs per EQ period. Problem solved without having to resort to a clusterfuck of balance issues.
Is it really that hard, Sega?

wefwq
Jan 16, 2015, 02:05 PM
[O] Shit scratch content that lots of people don't care
[O] Assassination of GU (again)
[O] Yet again, very dumb reason to ban people

Z-0
Jan 16, 2015, 02:19 PM
Limit players to 3 or 4 Magatsu runs per EQ period. Problem solved without having to resort to a clusterfuck of balance issues.
Is it really that hard, Sega?
That's just a shitty way of doing things, though. Why should players not be able to optimise and try to get as much out of something as they can?

Macman
Jan 16, 2015, 02:22 PM
Because Sega.

The Walrus
Jan 16, 2015, 02:29 PM
they could always just make the drop rates worse :3

wefwq
Jan 16, 2015, 02:30 PM
That's just a shitty way of doing things, though. Why should players not be able to optimise and try to get as much out of something as they can?
They already did and in fact, got banned for that very reason.

"En"
Jan 16, 2015, 02:34 PM
That's just a shitty way of doing things, though. Why should players not be able to optimise and try to get as much out of something as they can?

It wouldn't be the first time they've done so; Elder and Luther follow a similar restriction. If Magatsu is advertised as being the modern "big boss to end all big bosses," I'm actually surprised to see that it doesn't follow the rules set by its predecessors. Even Big Vardha was limited to 15 minutes when it was first released.

That's not to say I don't agree with you (on the contrary, I agree entirely) but I wouldn't put it past them.

MidCap
Jan 16, 2015, 03:44 PM
I'm just gonna hold off on doing Magatsu runs until I know there's no danger of getting banned. Even making 10 million during one EQ period isn't worth missing a week of play. I need too many "Level Cap" Cubes to sit around for a week :/

I know I usually argue a whole bunch, but the input from the community about how profitable this can be has been very helpful. I forgot that the drop rates were now improved. So uh, thanks guys!

(Previously I've done 2 XH runs running a 250 and gotten ZERO 10*, even with A Rank)

Squal_FFVIII
Jan 16, 2015, 03:49 PM
The funny thing about this whole thread of whiners is that none of you have the right to be playing on the JP servers legally...

So why does this even matter when none of you aren't even supposed to be on the servers in the first place? Sega can ban you all just that, if they felt like it...lol

Someone had to bring this FACT up. Don't get mad either. It's the truth.

NoiseHERO
Jan 16, 2015, 03:53 PM
The funny thing about this whole thread of whiners is that none of you have the right to be playing on the JP servers legally...

So why does this even matter when none of you aren't even supposed to be on the servers in the first place? Sega can ban you all just that, if they felt like it...lol

Someone had to bring this FACT up. Don't get mad either. It's the truth.

fact brought up like 900000000000 times already like... 3 years ago on every ban paranoia topic, you mad late to the cool guy party so it's not cool anymore.

n_n
Jan 16, 2015, 03:56 PM
they could always just make the drop rates worse :3
Then everyone will just go back to skipping it. =/

un1t27
Jan 16, 2015, 03:59 PM
The funny thing about this whole thread of whiners is that none of you have the right to be playing on the JP servers legally...

So why does this even matter when none of you aren't even supposed to be on the servers in the first place? Sega can ban you all just that, if they felt like it...lol

Someone had to bring this FACT up. Don't get mad either. It's the truth.

I think nobody cares.

jooozek
Jan 16, 2015, 04:01 PM
The funny thing about this whole thread of whiners is that none of you have the right to be playing on the JP servers legally...

So why does this even matter when none of you aren't even supposed to be on the servers in the first place? Sega can ban you all just that, if they felt like it...lol

Someone had to bring this FACT up. Don't get mad either. It's the truth.

someone call the police, someone is doing something illegal :yes:

n_n
Jan 16, 2015, 04:01 PM
so mean

NoiseHERO
Jan 16, 2015, 04:04 PM
omg tho he's just like the real squall right?

So pseudo edge. LOL

LonelyGaruga
Jan 16, 2015, 04:14 PM
The funny thing about this whole thread of whiners is that none of you have the right to be playing on the JP servers legally...

So why does this even matter when none of you aren't even supposed to be on the servers in the first place? Sega can ban you all just that, if they felt like it...lol

Someone had to bring this FACT up. Don't get mad either. It's the truth.

JPs are getting banned too. In fact, this is more problematic for JPs than us because they're overall better players, so more non-Gunner players are at risk of being banned for breaking their class' limits.


omg tho he's just like the real squall right?

So pseudo edge. LOL

Squall wouldn't even post on forums. This guy is an amateur.

NoiseHERO
Jan 16, 2015, 04:23 PM
Squall wouldn't even post on forums. This guy is an amateur.

Dayum that means he prolly a chicken wuss then <_>

Selphea
Jan 16, 2015, 05:31 PM
That's just a shitty way of doing things, though. Why should players not be able to optimise and try to get as much out of something as they can?

As game devs, they have to design around a designated amount of time spent for players to fully consume a piece of content. Otherwise there's a risk of players getting everything on day 1 or week 1, getting bored and leaving for greener pastures. Sega is in full on dripfeed mode right now so this should be a very real concern for them.

Just about every modern MMO has things like instance cooldowns or quest cooldowns or whatnot to limit repeat farming. Elder and Loser have it too, but Maggy is the exception that makes me wonder. Of course, typically some players find ways to get things faster than intended anyway, and then it gets patched. The eternal (meta)game of cat and mouse.

Squall179
Jan 16, 2015, 05:55 PM
Dayum that means he prolly a chicken wuss then <_>

The Leonhart Squall is such a loner he is afriad to talk to anyone because it might destroy his Superhardcore extreme seriousness.

That other Squall isn't powerful enough, and I'm just living up to the word's original meaning when I say banana fart disco squirrel laser eaters. *spins through the room like a tornado, belching obnoxiously before leaving again because the word actually is related to storms, storms of what, god knows, but it could be a storm of Wut*

Noblewine
Jan 16, 2015, 09:17 PM
In before list of victims magically appears. SEGA proves once again they stink when it comes to handling in-game issues poorly. Their stupidity is going to make them lose fans and money.

Cyron Tanryoku
Jan 16, 2015, 09:20 PM
what next

they threaten people for playing better mmos

Walkure
Jan 16, 2015, 09:22 PM
what next

they threaten people for playing better mmosDidn't HDD Burst uninstall/delete other MMOs as well?

TaigaUC
Jan 16, 2015, 09:22 PM
Well, whatever the case, SEGA still can't compare to Nexon.
Not a fan of any of them, personally. That there's shittier shouldn't be a valid excuse.


Didn't HDD Burst uninstall/delete other MMOs as well?
Yes, it looked for FF14 and deleted files from it.

Fun fact: prior to Blade and Soul's release in Japan, I was able to run Blade and Soul China at the same time as PSO2.
Immediately after BnS was released in Japan, Gameguard started detecting BnS as a malicious tool and since then closes PSO2 (or BnS, I forget) if BnS is running at the same time.

Kiyumi
Jan 16, 2015, 09:55 PM
Yes, it looked for FF14 and deleted files from it.

Fun fact: prior to Blade and Soul's release in Japan, I was able to run Blade and Soul China at the same time as PSO2.
Immediately after BnS was released in Japan, Gameguard started detecting BnS as a malicious tool and since then closes PSO2 (or BnS, I forget) if BnS is running at the same time.

Lol conspiracies.

I opened LINE on my computer yesterday and PSO2 closed. Whats next, SEGA is going to hack your credit cards and SSN too?

Noblewine
Jan 16, 2015, 10:06 PM
Whats next, SEGA is going to hack your credit cards and SSN too?

SEGAC works in mysterious ways.....

SakoHaruo
Jan 16, 2015, 10:13 PM
This isn't funny. o3o

BIG OLAF
Jan 16, 2015, 10:32 PM
I dunno, I'm chuckling over it.

Noblewine
Jan 16, 2015, 10:55 PM
I dunno, I'm chuckling over it.

Post of the year. Olaf is handling and a few others are handling this better than most. Fixed.

Terrence
Jan 16, 2015, 10:59 PM
Their stupidity is going to make them lose fans and money.

Maybe a little dozen of insignificant ones who can't understand how companies works indeed... Nothing to be afraid of for SEGA's business. Being done with those morons is a better choice.
In any case we all know those who yell bullshit like 'I'm done with this game' or 'fuck SEGA' will return on PSO2 once they're not banned anymore their tail between their legs. You know it.

Noblewine
Jan 16, 2015, 11:10 PM
Maybe a little dozen of insignificant ones who can't understand how companies works indeed... Nothing to be afraid of for SEGA's business. Being done with those morons is a better choice.
In any case we all know those who yell bullshit like 'I'm done with this game' or 'fuck SEGA' will return on PSO2 once they're not banned anymore their tail between their legs. You know it.

I probably should add that sega is losing credibility for allowing this "exploit/bug" to go unnoticed. Also what are the chances of player being victims because of the circumstances that they were in the party at the time players were exploiting it.

Walkure
Jan 16, 2015, 11:10 PM
Lol conspiracies.

I opened LINE on my computer yesterday and PSO2 closed. Whats next, SEGA is going to hack your credit cards and SSN too?It wasn't intentional, but that actually happening and the backlash over it was hilarious.

Same thing's happening here.

I dunno, I'm chuckling over it.
The Banner class image was pretty good.


I probably should add that sega is losing credibility for allowing this "exploit/bug" to go unnoticed. Also what are the chances of player being victims because of the circumstances that they were in the party at the time players were exploiting it.One of the examples of an MPA group that got banned was 11xFo 1xRa. It's apparently just going too fast, not even abusing Chain Trigger, let alone Chain Graptor/Banishing Arrow, that triggers the ban.

LonelyGaruga
Jan 16, 2015, 11:20 PM
Maybe a little dozen of insignificant ones who can't understand how companies works indeed... Nothing to be afraid of for SEGA's business. Being done with those morons is a better choice.
In any case we all know those who yell bullshit like 'I'm done with this game' or 'fuck SEGA' will return on PSO2 once they're not banned anymore their tail between their legs. You know it.

Are you seriously ignoring everyone pointing out that people who never did anything wrong are being banned simply for exceeding Sega's expectations and being able to run Magatsu several times without abusing CT + BA/VG? God you're such a goddamn hypocrite, calling morons out when you're the biggest one in the thread. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Defending Sega is fine and all when they haven't done anything wrong and are being bashed for giggles, but this is different. They're clearly wrong here. Defending them is simply stupid.

Vatallus
Jan 16, 2015, 11:42 PM
Hey guys, I understand some of you are angry but I don't think it is going to do anyone any good having a tread filled with hate. That said I guess I'm safe from the ban since my teammates and I like to full break XH magatsu for unit chances instead of min/maxing him for cubes.

Noblewine
Jan 16, 2015, 11:48 PM
It wasn't intentional, but that actually happening and the backlash over it was hilarious.

Same thing's happening here.

The Banner class image was pretty good.

One of the examples of an MPA group that got banned was 11xFo 1xRa. It's apparently just going too fast, not even abusing Chain Trigger, let alone Chain Graptor/Banishing Arrow, that triggers the ban.

I see. So sega is using poor judgment as usual when it comes to telling when someone is cheating and who isn't. Banning players unfairly makes them look adept and foolish. Then again the same thing has happened in PSU with the meseta duping.

Rakurai
Jan 16, 2015, 11:58 PM
The only things that typically end up unbroken on Magatsu are the smaller heads, and I'd assume that only the ones on its hands would increase item drops if any.

FmT
Jan 17, 2015, 02:22 AM
Are you seriously ignoring everyone pointing out that people who never did anything wrong are being banned simply for exceeding Sega's expectations and being able to run Magatsu several times without abusing CT + BA/VG? God you're such a goddamn hypocrite, calling morons out when you're the biggest one in the thread. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Defending Sega is fine and all when they haven't done anything wrong and are being bashed for giggles, but this is different. They're clearly wrong here. Defending them is simply stupid.

Like always, banned people claiming they are innocent :-? Any proof the banned people didn't abused chain - vol banish ?

Vatallus
Jan 17, 2015, 02:40 AM
I'd like to see proof also of the bans to be honest. Just take a screenshot and show us so I can let people know how far Sega is going with this. On that note Rakurai I've personally have not seen a 11* unit drop on anything less than 100% full break. Granted I've only seen 3 in total since its near impossible to get an MPA that actually does it and even though my team has enough members to make a 12/12 team MPA most of them just play casually so not always on.

On that note proof of 11* units drops on less than 100% full break would be great too so I know if I should just speed kill him.

Z-0
Jan 17, 2015, 03:09 AM
You can always believe Aine, he is like... the best player on these forums and most certainly the most trust-worthy. In addition, considering the backlash on Twitter against these bans which didn't use Chain/Vol-Banish, I'd say it has some weight, although it's not conclusive evidence, of course.

That being said, bans (I actually only have one):

http://p.twipple.jp/sO7h8

There were more but I didn't exactly save them. If I come across them again, I'll throw them here if you really want proof of bans occurring.

Vatallus
Jan 17, 2015, 03:44 AM
Thank you! I only recently made a forum account even though I peek around here every now and then. At least I can use this for the facebook group I am part of with about 100 players from varying ships to help show Sega is honestly serious about it. I won't be posting names of course, but thank you again. :)

Z-0
Jan 17, 2015, 04:18 AM
Here's another one, just in case:

https://twitter.com/f_gras1/status/556011022029295616

FmT
Jan 17, 2015, 04:44 AM
Here's another one, just in case:

https://twitter.com/f_gras1/status/556011022029295616

He is saying he didn't used gunner, but was in the same multiparty. So everyone who was doing these runs were temp banned :bday:

Z-0
Jan 17, 2015, 05:37 AM
I'm getting the impression that they're not using Chain Banish at all reading the comments (but I could be missing something entirely). Apparently people are being banned if they kill so many Magatsu, regardless of method used, which is ridiculous.

Dnd
Jan 17, 2015, 05:58 AM
Apparently people are being banned if they kill so many Magatsu, regardless of method used, which is ridiculous.

Sega starting 2015 in the best possible way, and amusing aswell.
I just wonder what the trigger point is for 'too many' because on a good pug group you can get 6 or even 7 SH runs in and i'd rather not be temp banned for just playing well with 11 other randoms.

Shinamori
Jan 17, 2015, 06:13 AM
I think it's best to wait until after it's fixed to do multiple magatsu. It's probably because people kill him fast, Sega thinks that they're using the 'exploit'.

Cyber Meteor
Jan 17, 2015, 07:28 AM
I just wonder what the trigger point is for 'too many' because on a good pug group you can get 6 or even 7 SH runs in and i'd rather not be temp banned for just playing well with 11 other randoms.

I guess as long as you don't kill Magatsu before 1st gate destroyed or reached, you should be fine:-P

Natsu Nem
Jan 17, 2015, 07:38 AM
Quick, everyone use their skill resets to do some really obscure hybrid builds to avoid the Magatsu banwaves.

Maenara
Jan 17, 2015, 07:44 AM
QUICK TRIAL
Avoid the Ban-nergy Tsunamis!

Dnd
Jan 17, 2015, 08:23 AM
I guess as long as you don't kill Magatsu before 1st gate destroyed or reached, you should be fine:-P

thats the thing tho even 4~5 min kills are done before he hits or assplodes the first gate ;~;

Z-0
Jan 17, 2015, 09:19 AM
We've been doing 2-4 minute kills this entire time, and we've had no problems with bans. You're only going to risk a ban if you deliberately use a strategy that requires full co-operation of 12 people, rather than a blanket strategy 12 random people can follow, if you know what I mean.

NoiseHERO
Jan 17, 2015, 09:20 AM
it's funny people can get banned for this somehow maybe but I've been flying around like goku for a minute.

Hrith
Jan 18, 2015, 03:49 AM
I wish they had done that for PSO and PSU, heh.

The shop duplication trick in PSO EpI&II was an in-game mechanic, after all.

If you cannot play/enjoy a game without exploiting some sort of glitch, you're just a terrible player.

Sakarisei
Jan 18, 2015, 04:33 AM
If you cannot play/enjoy a game without exploiting some sort of glitch, you're just a terrible player.

Well, even a exploiter can discover another exploits and then making a very good benefit, near like the machinegun glitch of PSU...

Hrith
Jan 18, 2015, 04:43 AM
You're just proving my point.

Sakarisei
Jan 18, 2015, 05:16 AM
You're just proving my point.

Well, I won't say not. Especially when that combo was not considered as an exploit... "until now", although i can consider that exploit as a result of some whiners who doesn't recognize that thing.

Nowadays, I'm imagining how Sakai is getting angry about this, and more things that he should have been fixed at the beggining of the release date. Seeing now how people are only interested in getting the highest DPS because he was the only one who has allowed the policy of "do want you want" with his players, not be aware of awful impacts for his game...

GHNeko
Jan 18, 2015, 10:30 AM
I blame everything on PSO2's massive Power Creep issues.

If this was such a fucking big deal, Sega should have emergency maint and fixed it then and there instead of banning people.

Hobu
Jan 18, 2015, 10:34 AM
Educate me people. I cannot be arsed to read all those pages behind.

What is this bug, and why is it bannable? Tl;dr pls.

TaigaUC
Jan 18, 2015, 10:41 AM
Educate me people. I cannot be arsed to read all those pages behind.

What is this bug, and why is it bannable? Tl;dr pls.

Banish Arrow and Volg Raptor are PAs that count the amount of damage you do in a short period of time, and then explodes with that total damage.
For example, if you apply either of those PAs and do 100x3 damage, when time runs out, the PA explodes on the applied target for 300 damage.

Problem is, PSO2 is multiplier on top of multiplier.
When combined with Chain Finish (ie. huge damage multiplier) players were able to do upwards of 4 million damage per Chain Finish+Banish Arrow/Volg Raptor.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ekiLCFP70

SEGA decided they didn't like people killing multiparty bosses instantly and decided to threaten us with bans until they get off their asses and fix it.


I blame everything on PSO2's massive Power Creep issues.

If this was such a fucking big deal, Sega should have emergency maint and fixed it then and there instead of banning people.

They'd rather ban people than give us another tri-boost.

Z-0
Jan 18, 2015, 10:43 AM
SEGA forgot to make Banish Arrow and Vol Graptor ignore Chain multipliers, and people were using it to kill the EQ bosses quickly, not realising it was supposedly a bug (considering it's not an error in programming per se, but rather a wrong value). SEGA decided over 1 year later they didn't like this because they didn't want people killing their "extremely hard" boss quickly, and threatened to ban people for using it.

So people stopped using it, and got banned anyway because they killed Magatsu too quickly for SEGA, who thought they were using Chain Vol Graptor / Banish Arrow when they were not. That is why people are mad (apart from the fact SEGA shouldn't be banning for it, anyway).

TaigaUC
Jan 18, 2015, 10:50 AM
Did they say they forgot? I was under the impression they just never thought of the possibility.
Because that seems like the norm for them.

Oh, people are getting banned anyway? Good job, SEGA.

Z-0
Jan 18, 2015, 10:52 AM
I'm not sure what they said, but I am pretty sure this has existed ever since Banish Arrow came out, just nobody thought to use it until recently (unless it was kept secret). Don't know why it would suddenly change.

I'm just giving a lovely biased account to make SEGA look bad. +^_^+ (it's still mostly accurate though, innocent people are getting banned)

isCasted
Jan 18, 2015, 11:01 AM
It wasn't exactly a secret. It was used by certain people, just not a lot of players actually wanted to try non-mainstream builds just for sake of showing off. EP3 update, aside of letting people try out some new ideas for builds, also buffed Chain with number tweaks and additional skills.

After that, PSO2 got content where great burst damage actually matters (I mean, why would anyone care to kill SH Elder even faster than in regular 1-2 minutes?).

Walkure
Jan 18, 2015, 11:09 AM
Banish Arrow and Volg Raptor are PAs that count the amount of damage you do in a short period of time, and then explodes with that total damage.
For example, if you apply either of those PAs and do 100x3 damage, when time runs out, the PA explodes on the applied target for 300 damage.No, the problem is that Chain Trigger effectively applies twice.

Let's say you normally hit for 100 damage. Chain Trigger at some 20-30ish number of hits gives 300% damage for four seconds once the finish starts. Add this ontop of Chain Finish Bonus, which gives another 135% multiplier for 405% (Does the passive double dip as well? I don't really know and don't really care since it'll get patched in a few days, swiki's butchered translation implies it might)

So now your hits deal 405% of the damage, or 405 each. You hit three times for 1215 damage. Then, the Banishing Arrow deals damage, and the multipliers are:

120% for charging
130% for Just Attacking the Banishing Arrow/Volg Raptor
405% because of Chain Trigger and Chain Finish (this is the bug)

The explosion then hits for ~7676 damage.


Problem is, PSO2 is multiplier on top of multiplier.
When combined with Chain Finish (ie. huge damage multiplier) players were able to do upwards of 4 million damage per Chain Finish+Banish Arrow/Volg Raptor.I thought it was dozens of millions for potential damage.


After that, PSO2 got content where great burst damage actually matters (I mean, why would anyone care to kill SH Elder even faster than in regular 1-2 minutes?).That's the kicker; before Magatsu there wasn't any repeatable event where this amount of burst would really matter, and before the buffs to his drops it didn't matter because he didn't drop anything worthwhile.

Hobu
Jan 18, 2015, 11:13 AM
I kinda like this bug. Some of the people I know are using this without even knowing that it was an exploit.

The Walrus
Jan 18, 2015, 11:15 AM
I wish they had done that for PSO and PSU, heh.

The shop duplication trick in PSO EpI&II was an in-game mechanic, after all.

If you cannot play/enjoy a game without exploiting some sort of glitch, you're just a terrible player.

So do you think any% speedrunners are terrible at the games they play due to them often using exploits and stuff to save lots of time?

Z-0
Jan 18, 2015, 11:23 AM
That's the kicker; before Magatsu there wasn't any repeatable event where this amount of burst would really matter, and before the buffs to his drops it didn't matter because he didn't drop anything worthwhile.
Before Magatsu's buff, you could still make a fairly reasonable amount of cubes getting 10+ runs, though. You would get like 30-50 from doing 15 runs, for example (which is why Magatsu got buffed in the first place -- people didn't like that organised MPAs were benefiting so much more over public).

TaigaUC
Jan 18, 2015, 11:40 AM
...

^ What he said. I'm tired.

I think the biggest thing with Chain Trigger on Magatsu is there are too many opportunities to easily build a high chain.
Other bosses have weak points that are difficult to focus on, whether it be because their weak points are tiny/break easily or the boss moves around too much.
Or they drop crap/can only be fought once per event/take forever to run to/are a rare spawn, so SEGA doesn't care if anybody kills them instantly.


Before Magatsu's buff, you could still make a fairly reasonable amount of cubes getting 10+ runs, though. You would get like 30-50 from doing 15 runs, for example (which is why Magatsu got buffed in the first place -- people didn't like that organised MPAs were benefiting so much more over public).

Yeah, the JP people I was running with decided to stop having organized runs because of the loot change.
They also wanted to try doing it normally. Organized runs tend to make short work of him.
Magatsu was more exciting when I didn't care about the loot/exp and each battle dragged out until he reached the final wall.



If you cannot play/enjoy a game without exploiting some sort of glitch, you're just a terrible player.
Or the game has shit design. Sometimes, glitches are more entertaining than the game itself.
Edit: Removed the rest because it was kinda off-topic. Tired.

Maenara
Jan 18, 2015, 12:59 PM
405% because of Chain Trigger and Chain Finish (this is the bug)


The thing is, it's not a bug. Every attack in the game has a number of traits that identify what effects apply to them.

For example, Foie has these traits: Technique, Technique attack, Fire technique, Fire element, Attack.
Tritt Shooter has these: Photon Art, Ranged attack, Bow Photon Art, <insert weapon element here> element, Attack.
Vol Graptor has these: Photon Art, Partizan Photon Art, Attack.
Banish Arrow has these: Photon Art, Bow Photon Art, Attack.

They have a few broad traits stripped out, yes. However, they both still have the Attack and Photon Art categories. Both of these categories are rarely affected by damage increasing skills, which is why their bonuses are few and far in between. Chain Trigger, however, boosts the damage of anything that qualifies as a Photon Art or a Technique. Since both of them do, they both get its bonus. Critical Strike boosts the damage of anything that qualifies as an attack, as long as it's triggered by a critical hit, so that too affects them. Vol Graptor benefits from Partizan Gear because it still has the Partizan PA trait. This is probably a simplified model of how things work, but it demonstrates the whole thing. It's not a bug, it's an oversight.

They're probably mulling about it because they can't fix it without reworking the entire system. They need it to qualify as a photon art for some things and not others. They're probably pissed because the system they designed is now working against them.

LonelyGaruga
Jan 18, 2015, 01:04 PM
If you cannot play/enjoy a game without exploiting some sort of glitch, you're just a terrible player.

ITT: Expressing opinions as facts.

Remind me again, what are games for? Having fun. What is fun? Subjective. Take your condemnations elsewhere.


Sometimes, glitches are more entertaining than the game itself.

^

Selphea
Jan 18, 2015, 05:32 PM
They're probably mulling about it because they can't fix it without reworking the entire system. They need it to qualify as a photon art for some things and not others. They're probably pissed because the system they designed is now working against them.

TAJA applies to the same things that CT would apply to though, except TAJA doesn't multiply Banish... or does it?

Walkure
Jan 18, 2015, 06:55 PM
-model-
Cool model; Only the most generic multipliers apply to Volg Raptor and Banishing Arrow. Wouldn't I expect more things, like hitzone multipliers, weak bullet, and Fighter stances to apply on top of regular damage, if that was the case? Except, I've done testing with those, and those obviously don't seem to apply. Infection points, which have a 2x weakness multiplier to every hitzone and 1x multiplier to all damage, don't boost the end explosion directly. Neither does a weakpoint, which has normal hitzone modifiers but a 2x multiplier to all damage.

If it's limited to multipliers that only affect PAs, it should be affected by Tech Arts JA Bonus, too, right? I used Slide End -> JA'd uncharged Volg Raptor -> Basic attack, and the end explosion did 130% of the Basic attack (683, 888 damage for the basic and explosion).

Huh, none of these multipliers work? Maybe a different model's in order then? Constructing a model that accurately represents Volg Raptor / Banishing Arrow explosions tends to make it clear that Chain Trigger, Critical Strike, and some enemy hitzones stick out like a sore thumb.

Before I knew about either Chain Finish or Critical Strike affecting the end explosion, mine was:


An uncharged, non-JA'd Volg Raptor deals the damage that was put into it. Given that I deal 100 damage to the during the Volg Raptor, it explodes for 100 damage exactly with no variation.
Charging the Volg Raptor gives a 1.20x multiplier to the end explosion.
Just Attacking the Volg Raptor gives a 1.30x multiplier to the end explosion.
No other multipliers should affect the explosion.

The final part is (on paper) fine for balance, since any multiplier would generally factor into the input damage and thus affect the overall damage proportionally. Where does this model fail?



Specifically coded hitzones (e.g. Luther's unbroken and unopened clock) apparently take less damage regardless.
Critical Strike can multiply either the explosion or the input damage, given that a critical hit occurs.
Chain Trigger affects both the explosion and the input damage, given that they're within the Chain Trigger window.



Vol Graptor benefits from Partizan Gear because it still has the Partizan PA trait.Hey guess what, we're both wrong about this (http://gfycat.com/PrestigiousRequiredAfricanfisheagle). Gear doesn't even directly affect the damage on Volg Raptor!


It's not a bug, it's an oversight.Unintended computational logic/behavior would be a bug.

Noblewine
Jan 18, 2015, 07:46 PM
So has the problem been fixed yet or is sega still making up excuses for this problem. =/
Remind me again why people wanted to play this game.

Xaelouse
Jan 18, 2015, 08:17 PM
They'll fix it next maintenance.
It might not be the only thing they'll patch up too, seeing as people can still get away with too many runs without chainbanish for Sega's liking

Selphea
Jan 18, 2015, 08:23 PM
Put Gigur's helmet on his head if they don't want him getting headshotted so much.

Noblewine
Jan 18, 2015, 09:23 PM
Put Gigur's helmet on his head if they don't want him getting headshotted so much.

good one!

Or sega could learn to program their games better. This whole incident is making them lose credibility for their programming/game design choices.

Fusionxglave
Jan 18, 2015, 10:46 PM
The gunner class, a once proud shooting clan of specialists whom were know for their abilities of assassination for tremendous amounts of monster and quick strategies against bosses.

But after some nerfing around they are no more than a group of fancy gunslingers who yet hold on to the day they will be boosted again.

Maenara
Jan 19, 2015, 04:53 AM
-words and things-

Hey hey, I'm trying here.

My second theory is that they only benefit from general multipliers that are triggered at the exact the that damage is dealt, I.E. Critical Strike triggered by a critical, Chain Trigger(Probably because each attack checks the number of the chain, even after the chain's already been detonated).

isCasted
Jan 19, 2015, 06:03 AM
Got a random thought...

Has anyone tried to see if it's possible to apply spawn instakill "mechanic" (according to SEGA's silence, it's not a bug) outside of TA, namely in TD? I constantly see enemy indicators flickering in area map's center before they spawn at their actual positions, so, I think, people could make a use of it. Would be great to draw SEGA's attention to it by doing 7-8 runs of TD1 or TD2.

Atmius
Jan 19, 2015, 06:04 AM
It's only possible in TD3, in TD1/2 the enemy spawn point is in an inaccessible point on the map.

Z-0
Jan 19, 2015, 06:06 AM
TD1-2 don't work because the spot to do it is outside of the map. Works in TD3, though, but you won't get extra runs in that because the bosses will block you since there's a boss like every spawn.

Might work in some other set quests but I've never bothered trying it.

FacelessRed
Jan 19, 2015, 06:50 AM
I tried to read every post, but frankly it began to wear on me.

First off, the use of the word "ban" is extreme. The problem with not enforcing this would DAMAGE the game for everyone.

There are many issues that SOJ have not Addressed, I can see this. But how many of them actually damage the fundamentals of the game? I.E. Fighting (Actual fighting) And rare item collecting and enhancing? These are the focal points of the game yes?

So if you can down megatsu and what have you in 30 seconds or less everytime all the time. You can create a large pool of high end items with little to no effort. Flood the market and destroy the game for a long period of time for yourselves and many others riding the coattails of your success.

The possible suspension is to mitigate and prevent people from being able to flood the market of high end items and gear players rapidly. It would be NICE if there was content OUTSIDE of this goal, but for now, there isn't and for as long as I can remember, has never really been any different.

That being said, I do wonder what SOJ's QA team is actually doing. But whatever it is, it's what the devs tell them to focus on. Ontop of that the QA team is nowhere near as large as the Player-base, so the playerbase will always ALWAYS find bugs the QA team has not. Due to the fact there's probably 10-20 guys in a room vs 300-500,000 active players during just a week.

Z-0
Jan 19, 2015, 06:54 AM
No, what SoJ should be doing is an emergency maintenance and fixing this exploit instead of suspending people for a week.

holy shit people shouldn't get banned for just playing the game, and most people who have been banned has been banned simply because they did Magatsu too quickly for SEGA despite not using the Chain exploit after SEGA said it would be bannable, which is where most of the anger in this thread comes from.

FacelessRed
Jan 19, 2015, 06:59 AM
No, what SoJ should be doing is an emergency maintenance and fixing this exploit instead of suspending people for a week.

holy shit people shouldn't get banned for just playing the game, and most people who have been banned has been banned simply because they did Magatsu too quickly for SEGA despite not using the Chain exploit after SEGA said it would be bannable, which is where most of the anger in this thread comes from.

So you're telling me people were permanently removed from the game?

Z-0
Jan 19, 2015, 07:01 AM
No, they were suspended for a week, but it's still a ban per se.

Still extremely bad, and there is literally no justification for it.

FacelessRed
Jan 19, 2015, 07:05 AM
No, it's not a ban. It's a suspension.

And you're also telling me you want a patch to be made out of thin air on the spot? Look through deeply rooted code and then break the game for an undisclosed amount of time in-case the patch (untested because of an emergency patch) doesn't work? Seriously, what's wrong with you?

That's plenty justification.

Especially with the FACT that their TESTED PATCHES in the PAST has wiped peoples Hard drives.

Not to mention you fail to see the big pictures. 20 people? 30? maybe 100? Suspended for a week. compared to what? 20,30 maybe 100,000 people NOT suspended. It's not skin off their back, and it's no skin off mine either.

Let the patch be done correctly, with time and testing.

Shinamori
Jan 19, 2015, 07:09 AM
I tried to read every post, but frankly it began to wear on me.

First off, the use of the word "ban" is extreme. The problem with not enforcing this would DAMAGE the game for everyone.

There are many issues that SOJ have not Addressed, I can see this. But how many of them actually damage the fundamentals of the game? I.E. Fighting (Actual fighting) And rare item collecting and enhancing? These are the focal points of the game yes?

So if you can down megatsu and what have you in 30 seconds or less everytime all the time. You can create a large pool of high end items with little to no effort. Flood the market and destroy the game for a long period of time for yourselves and many others riding the coattails of your success.

The possible suspension is to mitigate and prevent people from being able to flood the market of high end items and gear players rapidly. It would be NICE if there was content OUTSIDE of this goal, but for now, there isn't and for as long as I can remember, has never really been any different.

That being said, I do wonder what SOJ's QA team is actually doing. But whatever it is, it's what the devs tell them to focus on. Ontop of that the QA team is nowhere near as large as the Player-base, so the playerbase will always ALWAYS find bugs the QA team has not. Due to the fact there's probably 10-20 guys in a room vs 300-500,000 active players during just a week.

Yeah, in regards to Magatsu's drop; it's not worth much. They haven't been worth much for a while.

FacelessRed
Jan 19, 2015, 07:12 AM
Yeah, in regards to Magatsu's drop; it's not worth much. They haven't been worth much for a while.

I will agree, that they are kinda crummy. But imagine being in a party that can fit in 20 megatsu runs? levels like crazy, and if you weren't geared, you will be.

Z-0
Jan 19, 2015, 07:12 AM
seems you missed the memo where I said people were getting banned (or rather, suspended) for playing legitimately

once again, no justification.

FacelessRed
Jan 19, 2015, 07:14 AM
seems you missed the memo where I said people were getting banned (or rather, suspended) for playing legitimately

once again, no justification.

You'd do well in a sword fight. You'd always miss the point.

oratank
Jan 19, 2015, 07:55 AM
lol people still use this thick even sega have warned to be banned. wtf

Aine
Jan 19, 2015, 08:30 AM
And you're also telling me you want a patch to be made out of thin air on the spot? Look through deeply rooted code and then break the game for an undisclosed amount of time in-case the patch (untested because of an emergency patch) doesn't work? Seriously, what's wrong with you?

They've had over a year to fix this. Here's a recap in case you didn't notice how SEGA has handled this incompetently at every turn:

- A year ago they introduce Banish Arrow. If they didn't intend for CT to affect it they certainly didn't bother checking it properly (technically it's an oversight, not a bug, so this could have been prevented from launch).

- When players discover and start using it SEGA still doesn't bother to patch or even acknowledge it, presumably because they don't consider it to be an issue.

- They then introduce Vol Graptor which uses the same mechanics, still no patch.

- Magatsu rolls around and they finally think that it might be an issue if players use it to insta-kill him. They put up a notice saying they'll patch it and then proceed to ignore the issue for another three weeks.

- Now they roll out a massive buff to Magatsu drops before they patch CT. This would have been pretty sensible if they buffed the drops and patched the bug at the same time, but no.

- People start complaining so they warn players they may be banned if they abuse it. But since they apparently don't have the technical capability to actually detect who's abusing it, they just auto-ban anyone who did SH/XH runs too fast even though there are several legitimate strategies that don't abuse the bug at all.

So yeah, I think it's pretty fair to call out SEGA for fucking this one up.

Sgt. Sharina Wize
Jan 20, 2015, 12:43 AM
The gunner class, a once proud shooting clan of specialists whom were know for their abilities of assassination for tremendous amounts of monster and quick strategies against bosses.

But after some nerfing around they are no more than a group of fancy gunslingers who yet hold on to the day they will be boosted again.

This is exactly how I feel everyday playing gunner hoping Sega gets there shit together and fix gunner so I can go back to destroying big mobs of enemies and killing bosses really fast.

Ordy
Jan 20, 2015, 07:14 AM
...killing bosses really fast.

Just go type GuRa is niconico and watch, please ... just do it. People have that weird misconception that a Gunner has no dps, CT+WB+Sat Aim is a solid combo and rapes bosses. Even a GuHu can deal decent damages just using CT+Sat Aim

Z-0
Jan 20, 2015, 07:15 AM
Well, it doesn't have any DPS, it just has burst damage. Slight difference.

It's a little like Bouncer. It's alright for DPS'ing, but it most certainly excels at burst damage against single targets.

Shinamori
Jan 20, 2015, 10:42 AM
Just go type GuRa is niconico and watch, please ... just do it. People have that weird misconception that a Gunner has no dps, CT+WB+Sat Aim is a solid combo and rapes bosses. Even a GuHu can deal decent damages just using CT+Sat Aim

Probably why those Sat Aim TMGs are expensive when affixed and grinded to +40.