Cirnopedia is UP!

[Kiyumi]

EDIT - Cirnopedia is UP! Or at least, we can access it here >>> http://pso2.cirnopedia.info/index.php

Also, the site editor says he is looking for volunteers, although they have to know what they are doing and have some sort of experience, due to the way the site works being not beginner-friendly. His explanation here. (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3226808&postcount=34)

[Xaelouse]

too bad
no really, just use swiki instead of depending on a guy that spams Neptunia all over his page

[sesshymon]

someone didn't pay their bills...

[HopelessHero]

Yeah, it figures it goes down one time I really need it, but... Ehh. That's a me problem.
I thought it might have some relation to the lag, but then, since the DDoS I've been in...
*narrows eyes dramatically*
... Conspiracy theory mode.

[LordKaiser]

It was nice till it lasted. It had a nice layout and interface and all was well organized but the guy running it don't have time to maintain it. Dunno if he designed everything from scratch or if he used a kit but it was very well designed.

[Maenara]

It would have been a million times smarter if he made it community-editable, like, any other wiki in the entire internet.

[HopelessHero]

Oh god.
I thought it was just temporarily down or something, but... It's dead and gone?

[The Walrus]

RIP Cirno

[HopelessHero]

Peaches. ._.
So... Now what? What else have we got to work with? I find bumped to be kind of annoying to navigate to find the moonrunes I need to buy older stuff off the player shops, and swiki is just hella no-no.

[wefwq]

Yeah, just discovered this on the other night when i want to find some accessories.
Pretty much a shame it has pretty neat accessories listing with big icon on it.

Any news if it's only temporary or gone for good?

[pkemr4]

good, now someone else with a brain can make it and allow other people to contribute.

[Walkure]

Considering that AIDA was talking about Arks-Layer getting DDOS attacked earlier this week, I wouldn't be surprised if Cirno was attacked and taken down by the same group. Could also have just straight up died as well, too, though.

[SkyeNorvil]

The strongest has fallen.

[Shirai]

Who knows? It may not even be permanently down.

If it's down for a few days that's when shit hits the fan.

[Nitro Vordex]

It would have been a million times smarter if he made it community-editable, like, any other wiki in the entire internet.
This times a goddamn million. That's all he had to do, but no, let's be fucking kawaii as fuck.

[BIG OLAF]

It's gone down before and come back up, so I'm sure this time won't be any different.

But, yeah, on the topic of being publicly edited, what kind of moronski makes a wiki like that non-editable? I always see him on his little update page apologizing for not adding the latest 45845092 updates to the site because of life stuff, which is fine, but, y'know, that problem could be alleviated by getting with the fuckin' century.

[strikerhunter]

It would have been a million times smarter if he made it community-editable, like, any other wiki in the entire internet.

Agreed. Honestly, it was doomed to die at some point whether it's now or later on in the future with just Cirno doing it alone. (It takes almost 2-3 months before the cite is even updated)

I'll just stick with swiki like the usual, not like it's even that hard to navigate with even when relying on Google Translate.

[Xaeris]

cirno would certainly do well to get some more approved helpers who could handle the small stuff like new AC scratches, but I don't trust y'all mofos with a completely open wiki.

[Selphea]

It's not like other sites aren't available if you want to make an alternative. Thing is, curating and QCing a Wiki can be just as taxing, if not more, than running a site like Cirno.

Does it actually use ads though? I see it accusing me of adblock but I don't actually run any ad blockers. If the owner doesn't get any cash from it I can see why they'd be so chill about this.

[Xaeris]

It used to have ads, but I haven't seen any recently.

[HIT0SHI]

Hey all. I contacted Cirno about the issue and this was the response:

Noted.:-?

[LordKaiser]

I hope it was not SEGA itself.

[Jiero]

I hope it was not SEGA itself.

Wouldn't have to be Sega itself, although I wouldn't put it past them in anyway or at least because they could have hired a third party IP protection company at the very least who could do it on their behalf.

The only times I've really seen instances of a site getting shut down so fast in such a manner and without notice or response from the host was because the host received a cease and desist order alleging copyright infringement which is usually acted upon without any verification and gives the website owner little to no recourse to get his site back (host won't/can't communicate with the site owner per dmca). One of the issues being that these can be sent by anyone on behalf of anyone because nothing is verified of the accuser (and the accused is assumed guilty and punished instantly out of fear of litigation), are often done by automated tools using stupidly broad conditions filled with boilerplate threats and are handled by self proclaimed IP protection companies that use those large amounts of false flags from automated tools to justify their costs/existence to the company that is hiring them to protect their IPs out of the fear that was created by the often falsified reports (to make it look like the IP protection company is essential instead of being useless/harmful).



If it's not back up in a few days and if the host is still non-responsive (refusing rather then just not bothering to) about the issue then it would be wiser to look at exporting to another wiki pretty much rather then hope they will back track and restore access. If it were anything else, such as exceeding bandwidth costs or anything else pertaining to the costs of the site then it usually would have been responded to in order per their ToS and that would have been sent as a reply.


I mean, hopefully I'm wrong.. but this type of abuse from companies like that are sadly quite common and the results are repeated far, far to often to keep track of*.


* even google doesn't bother verifying much of them anymore because it receives millions of those requests a year and they decided to simply block access to the site in the DCMA complaint right away using automated tools now because of the costs of trying to verify in the legally allocated 3 days from notice receipt is impossible at that volume. And yes, google itself reported that 95% of those dcma flags were abuse of a system that they knew wouldn't check that they were outright false (in their transparency report it showed that 95% of them had nothing in them besides the boilerplate legal threats or even had everything in it wrong/gibberish), but nothing was ever done to fix it and it's only gotten worse over time.

[LonelyGaruga]

The strongest has fallen.

Don't worry, auto respawn!


cirno would certainly do well to get some more approved helpers who could handle the small stuff like new AC scratches, but I don't trust y'all mofos with a completely open wiki.

IIRC Cirno does have approved helpers.

[Kiyumi]

Hey all. I contacted Cirno about the issue and this was the response:

Thank you.

Added to the OP.

[Edson Drake]

I noticed but didn't pay attention as I'm pretty sure it will be back up. The webmaster seems quite passionate about the site despite not allowing other people to help improve it even more.

I'm sure he has his reasons, but really that site, like its style or not, has everything to be our own version of the jpwiki, but needs more staff, a lot more of it.

[Chris_Chocobo]

Hope it comes back soon :(

[Skyly]

It would have been a million times smarter if he made it community-editable, like, any other wiki in the entire internet.

I know. Maybe he's prideful, and doesn't want to ask for help when he obviously needs it. The site is hardly updated. I like the layout of cirno better than swiki, but swiki shits on cirno with updates/info.

[Nitro Vordex]

Wish we could just have all that info moved here onto PSO-W. Too bad no English huehuehue.

[.Jack]

I don't think this is the first time it has gone down. I'd give it a day or two for it to come back.

[ArataWata]

I hope it was not SEGA itself.

Why in the hell would Sega take it down?

I know some players here like to think Sega of Japan has it out for the English player base but god almighty take off the tin hats for once.

[wefwq]

I hope it was not SEGA itself.
They got almost to no reason to do so, cirno even put some credits to sega on the bottom of their page which is iirc one of their rules to host some kind of fansite.

[Cirnopoly]

Dead link
Apparently, the host is threatening to shutdown the site unless I remove all MP3s and WEBMs. I deleted them so I'm now waiting for the site to go back online.


We all know it could have been more updated if he trusted others to edit
That isn't the issue though. The issue is that there's not enough volunteers who wants to contribute to the site.

Most people who actually tried to contribute to the site didn't know what they were getting into and was shocked to know how much work is actually involved in simply updating a page, or simply doesn't know what to do. So a majority of them have quit before they could actually contribute much or anything.

SchwerMuta, the most active contributor at the moment was the only one who lasted more than 2 months and was able to contribute tons of content and added functionality to the site. He's 10 times better than me at coding the site so all the recent site improvements are all thanks to him.

Previous contributors were limited to providing translations only, providing icons only, writing stuff and some copy-paste jobs that I don't want to do. Most of them only helping once or twice and then dissappearing.


But, yeah, on the topic of being publicly edited, what kind of moronski makes a wiki like that non-editable?
Is there anywhere on the site that claims its a wiki? It's just a simple website written in HTML with some PHP functionality. There's no web interface for adding content, so you have to use Notepad++ to edit and create pages.

It's not a wiki because I actually have no knowledge in coding a wiki, which is why I was using Google Docs before that. Turning it into an open wiki now will require me to redo the site from nothing.


I know. Maybe he's prideful, and doesn't want to ask for help when he obviously needs it.
I've been asking for help since forever. The site is down so you can't check it now, but the support page have me asking for help at the bottom. I'll post a screenshot but my PSOW account don't have enough posts to use that feature.

Don't ask me saying "I can't code sites, translate or extract stuff from the game files, but if there's something I can help with don't hesitate to ask." because there's absolutely nothing for you.

[Rupikachu]

@Cirnopoly, how big are your traffic figures? i may be able to host it on the machine i have the arkive and pso2es updates.

[Eternal255]

Most people who actually tried to contribute to the site didn't know what they were getting into and was shocked to know how much work is actually involved in simply updating a page, or simply doesn't know what to do. So a majority of them have quit before they could actually contribute much or anything.


how much work we talking about? I've made tons of smaller websites & would love to have more large-scale sites like that on my resume :p

[Ethridel]

I have had issues with Cirnopedia as well. Clearing my web cache solved the problem for me, I was able to connect immediately after doing that.

[Kiyumi]

That isn't the issue though. The issue is that there's not enough volunteers who wants to contribute to the site.

Most people who actually tried to contribute to the site didn't know what they were getting into and was shocked to know how much work is actually involved in simply updating a page, or simply doesn't know what to do. So a majority of them have quit before they could actually contribute much or anything.

SchwerMuta, the most active contributor at the moment was the only one who lasted more than 2 months and was able to contribute tons of content and added functionality to the site. He's 10 times better than me at coding the site so all the recent site improvements are all thanks to him.

Previous contributors were limited to providing translations only, providing icons only, writing stuff and some copy-paste jobs that I don't want to do. Most of them only helping once or twice and then dissappearing.


Thanks for the explanation. It seems its only a miscommunication/misunderstanding, although theres no need for people to be rude about it. If it was more advertised that you were looking for volunteers, everyone benefits.

Anyways it looks like AIDA is advertising here on your behalf, and hopefully someone who knows what they are doing and can fit with your rules can step up.

Also site is up!

[Reyva]

Heh, your typical pos-world knob wouldn't know what HTML stands for. Much less write pure html in notepad xD. However, its just not pos-world, but most of the internet sadly.

Problem is, if you want volunteers....and these volunteers usually have no experience in coding except writing bbcode in forum posts, then either you're going to have to make it easy for them or they will just not contribute. Its like handling a major client something like this and saying "Umm, you have to know html or else you can't make pages." They'll say WTF?

I was toying with the thought of making a PSO2 wiki back last year around April. Even had a sub section on my main wiki and navigation set up for the game. But I eventually removed it for a couple reasons

1. Lost interest

2. Gauging potential traffic. If I base it off pos-world, its not going to meet my expectations. So is it really worth the effort?

3. Sorry, but my wiki is not a open editable wiki like pos-world knobs want it. It just leads to a giant mess of misinformation. I prefer a trusted team of people aka volunteers who would then get access to edit whatever page.

4. pos-world being pos-world. So many ungrateful idiots on here. Reminds me of that movie Idiocracy.

Anyways, I have several ways to make it where anyone could work on a page without needing coding experience. I'll mention just three of them.

1) Wiki template system. I make the templates, you enter in crap. Pretty standard stuff. So for example, my wiki template syntax on my site is like


atk=999|range=999|tech=999

2) Google/Excel sheets. Just enter in the data and there will be some code to convert it to html or my wiki's template code. Pretty impressive stuff since after that, just copy and paste everything. Ideal for databases.

3) PSO2 specific bbcode. I can make bbcodes specific to pso2 heh.

I'm working on another major project right now for another game, but once I'm done, I'm discuss this again with my team. Hopefully, by then, something happens here with Crino or someone else does it cause I'm too lazy to do it hah.

Anyways, easier said than done for people who think stuff like this is easy. If that is the case, there should of already been a wiki long ago or pos-world should of had what you wanted.............your so called ideal database/wiki. How many wiki start ups did I see on pos-world in the past and where are they now? Hahahaha right.....dead.

Oh and I never had a problem with Crino's site when I actively played PSO2. I feel your pain and great job on what your site has become. Hopefully things will get better for ya in the future.

[Selphea]

Most people who actually tried to contribute to the site didn't know what they were getting into and was shocked to know how much work is actually involved in simply updating a page, or simply doesn't know what to do. So a majority of them have quit before they could actually contribute much or anything.

SchwerMuta, the most active contributor at the moment was the only one who lasted more than 2 months and was able to contribute tons of content and added functionality to the site. He's 10 times better than me at coding the site so all the recent site improvements are all thanks to him.

Handcoded o_O That's so 2005!

I used to do that waaaaaay back but nowadays, things have moved on to CMS like Joomla, WordPress etc with tons of pre-baked plugins. Easy for volunteers to add content, easy for you to administer as well.

Handcoding shouldn't be necessary anymore unless you really need some kind of custom function or really need to squeeze out every drop of performance, like if you run a big site like Amazon.com or something. Even then, it typically takes place within the CMS as a plugin or gets imported from a .js or something like that.

I suggest Googling the term "CMS" or "Content Management System", take a look at your options, decide which one fits best for your needs and then migrate the site over. It will save you a LOT of headaches and your volunteers will be happier. But if I had to point you somewhere off the top of my head, I'd say look at WordPress (https://wordpress.org) and TablePress (http://tablepress.org), because WordPress plugins are typically free. I don't do IT anymore so that's about as far as I can help you.

[Jiero]

Handcoded o_O That's so 2005!

I used to do that waaaaaay back but nowadays, things have moved on to CMS like Joomla, WordPress etc with tons of pre-baked plugins. Easy for volunteers to add content, easy for you to administer as well.

Handcoding shouldn't be necessary anymore unless you really need some kind of custom function or really need to squeeze out every drop of performance, like if you run a big site like Amazon.com or something. Even then, it typically takes place within the CMS as a plugin or gets imported from a .js or something like that.

I suggest Googling the term "CMS" or "Content Management System", take a look at your options, decide which one fits best for your needs and then migrate the site over. It will save you a LOT of headaches and your volunteers will be happier.

I've actually been using xsl (XML with website format tags) spreadsheets because of the cross document custom searches and ability to merge data from multiple documents into a single form. Lacks the pictures but for me at least makes up for it with the ability to define exactly what I want to see from the entire wiki condensed into a single page regardless of where it would normally be located. It also allows the creation of subpages to contain data and pictures using a custom table of data within the page as well which means I can have a single database merge for the entire site and then a single page will then pull data from that as it's updated to create a custom sub-page. For example a sub-page about a single enemy can have it's picture and a custom database merge of it's levels, areas, quests, stats and drops generated at page load... then if ANY of that data is then changed in a future patch all that needs edited are the spreadsheets containing the info that was changed which will then be reflected in any pages which reference that spreadsheet.


* the documents are linked and then all that is needed for a addition is to add a datacell to a document containing the information... which anyone able to enter text into a spreadsheet can edit.

[Rupikachu]

Handcoded o_O That's so 2005!

I used to do that waaaaaay back but nowadays, things have moved on to CMS like Joomla, WordPress etc with tons of pre-baked plugins. Easy for volunteers to add content, easy for you to administer as well.

Handcoding shouldn't be necessary anymore unless you really need some kind of custom function or really need to squeeze out every drop of performance, like if you run a big site like Amazon.com or something. Even then, it typically takes place within the CMS as a plugin or gets imported from a .js or something like that.

I suggest Googling the term "CMS" or "Content Management System", take a look at your options, decide which one fits best for your needs and then migrate the site over. It will save you a LOT of headaches and your volunteers will be happier. But if I had to point you somewhere off the top of my head, I'd say look at WordPress (https://wordpress.org) and TablePress (http://tablepress.org), because WordPress plugins are typically free. I don't do IT anymore so that's about as far as I can help you.

^ +1

Except wp is not a good idea for that kind of stuff, i would look for a cms that lets you create easily custom sets of data and relate them (yes there are wp plugins for that but they're internally messy). On a quick thought i can only think on silverstripe.

[Ordy]

You don't need all that CMS shit just for a wiki.

Find a decent PHP coder, make your page dynamic with a user control on edition/creation. That way someone will just have to edit your HTML if you want to add new sections/pages.

Pretty sure that the biggest work about updating a pso2 wiki will be: accessories/clothes/room items, weapons/units/latents, new CO. Then occasionally MB and new Quests/maps, new content.
It would be more efficient to code PHP functions to generate your HTML table lines (using a creation page), than asking to random users to hardcode data.

IMO, that's pretty much what a wiki engine does, but hey, the owner's the boss ... I guess wiki engines are not moe enough for Hyperdimension Neptunia or KanColle.

[Selphea]

You don't need all that CMS shit just for a wiki.

Find a decent PHP coder...

The point of using a CMS is so that 0 coding is required.

[Ordy]

You can't use CMS for everything.

[Rupikachu]

You can't use CMS for everything.

Ok then say one cirno feature you can't implement in a cms.

[Chdata]

Y'know what cirnopedia lets me do that swiki doesn't?

Quickly find stuff in english so I can copypaste the JP name and actually find stuff in shops.

And that's all I use it for. If I wanna see what new items are out I check swiki, but it's otherwise useless for most of what I use these sites for. Plus not even they get things out within... even a week sometimes.


But seriously... your host is really bad if they're banning webm's and soundfiles. Find a new host. Your current one sucks and shouldn't be earning any money.

[Nulve]

Instead of telling him how to run his site, why not band together to create an English alternative PSO2 wiki that IS easily editable?