Yu Suganuma(Ep.3 director) plays on Ship 3..

[Sizustar]

http://i.imgur.com/N1B9z1y.jpg

All of his class is lv.65+ currently..

[EvilMag]

Someone go on there and tell him to stop fucking with gunner.

[Bellion]

His Gu must be level 65!111111

[Poyonche]

Someone, go harass him for info on the next TD ! (if they plan to do one)

[Xaeris]

Oh, he actually plays this game? Could have fooled me.

[Keilyn]

At least a director actually plays the game one is hired to work on. Of course that does not say much because a lot of Guild Wars 2 programmers and Public Relations play Guild Wars 2 and that game was nerfed to the ground on my favorite class...

Hopefully updates will be decent.

[vantpers]

What's with all that hate. He is my favourite director right now. Sucks to be a gunner I guess.

[NoiseHERO]

I thought he was made boss dude in charge for balance cause he was only dude that played.

An he made hunter more fun. gud nuff for me in terms of better than sakai.

Too bad this game's combat is meh period.

[Sizustar]

I thought he was made boss dude in charge for balance cause he was only dude that played.

An he made hunter more fun. gud nuff for me in terms of better than sakai.

Too bad this game's combat is meh period.

He's responsible for all of Episode 3, while Sakai and Yuya take a back seat.
He has other idea that he want to implement, but can't due to outdated server machine. such as improving the search function in MY SHOP to enable people to search for multiple affix at the same time, and other system change.

[Maenara]

What's with the ellipses on every topic you post?

[NoiseHERO]

What's with you being friends with ragunee-chan.

it's nee-chan like sister tho when I made up that horrible joke after my ex-wife was like:

"o.o ragne is pronounced ragune"

This was before she got lost in the forest forever.

Damn that was 3 years ago already...

[LonelyGaruga]

At least a director actually plays the game one is hired to work on. Of course that does not say much because a lot of Guild Wars 2 programmers and Public Relations play Guild Wars 2 and that game was nerfed to the ground on my favorite class...

Hopefully updates will be decent.

He's been in charge since EP3. It was known from the beginning he played the game, just not what classes (and their levels) and what ship. The fact that he played was like one of the first things stated about his qualifications. The main news for this thread is the classes/ship.

As for whether the updates are decent or not, just look at the last several months of updates. It's not like he just got hired.

Far as I'm concerned, the only thing done right throughout EP3 was the rebalance, and even then there was no followup on the promise to continue rebalancing the classes as necessary. The only thing that happened was focusing on high priority complaints (Gunner), and the job done was unsatisfactory. Everything else has been poorly handled so far. And to no surprise, turns out he barely plays the game.

[Cyclon]

Eh, his character is okay. I'd argue that she looks too young, but who would I be kidding were I to do such a thing?

[MadDemon64]

Someone go and ask them if they know why PSO2 has been delayed in the U.S

[untrustful]

harassment/3

[n_n]

Someone go and ask them if they know why PSO2 has been delayed in the U.S
Why do you (still) care? lol

[Selphea]

So that's the guy responsible for slowing content down to a dripfeed, making only one mission worth doing for rare weapons, making the latest MPA boss little more than a huge, slow-moving pinata and banning legit players who are too good at the game? :wacko:

[mctastee]

Oh, he actually plays this game? Could have fooled me.
Most developers of MMOs play their own games, but more often than not they don't understand how everything works. Either that, or they prefer to make the class they play super OP and pretend it's fine.

[D-Inferno]

So that's the guy responsible for slowing content down to a dripfeed, making only one mission worth doing for rare weapons, making the latest MPA boss little more than a huge, slow-moving pinata and banning legit players who are too good at the game? :wacko:
The dripfeeding has been around since the game's launch. Yu might be the Director atm, but PSO2 is still ultimately SegaSammy's game, not unnecessary Yu/Sakai/ect's. The dripfeed + lack of content (smaller budget, but making a good amount from scratches) could possibly just be SS's business plan, but who knows. Of course, since Yu is the director, many will assume it's his fault, but we truly don't know what goes on inside SoJ/SS.

[GHNeko]

Are people blissfully ignorant of top-down development?

Just because Sugar Mama is the director of the game doesnt mean shit; like Sun Sol has stated above me.

If he makes a choice, SegaC can easily red-light that shit and tell him to do something else, but there is no vise versa.

More often then not, you should blame SegaC for decisions that make sense from a business perspective, and not from a gamer's perspective.

Suits impact game design a lot more than what people like to believe and even the director can only fight it so much.

[BIG OLAF]

But why did you think anyone cared what Ship he plays on?

His character has a fat face.

[Sizustar]

But why did you think anyone cared what Ship he plays on?

His character has a fat face.

I think that's one of the question asked during the live festa.

Beside the Ark girl, and Ichitaro, he's the only other person that has stated to play the game.

[Walkure]

The only real complaints that I can muster that are unique to Suganuma's leading are:


Gear rewards are pretty silly right now. The almost-unilaterally best armor set comes from one boss, best weapons all come from another. Rest of the game basically boils down to getting levels and cubes when power-farming those isn't optimal. XH doesn't have that much going for it when it's more rewarding to do a lower difficulty. The best symptom of this is all the drop mechanic changes to Anga and Magatsu.
Everything about Chain Graptor/Banish was hilariously mishandled.
Class rebalancing could use a few more iterations. BRmain could use some kind of offensive main-only advantage, TMGs could use more love to make TMG GU good again. Katana, Sword, and Knuckles could also use some looking at.


The second bullet point is pretty damning, but the others could possibly be temporary problems as new gear is rolled out and rewards are rebalanced. If he actually delivers on multi-affix searching, and makes optimal gear more varied in incentive/location as new areas are added, all is forgiven in my book.

[Shirai]

Such a kawaii shota he has.

[Walkure]

I'm pretty sure that costume is an Arks Blazer F, though. (´･_･`)

[Anduril]

I'm pretty sure that costume is an Arks Blazer F, though. (´･_･`)
Yeah, it says right there on the first line "Ship3 ヒュマ(Human) ♀(Female)."

[wefwq]

I wonder which class are his main, and which class he plays just for the sake to leveling them up and never touch them ever again, hrrm...hrrm...
I'm also super curious which unit and weapon he's using, haha maybe the recent MB that gave fully affixed unit are his doing also?

[Fusionxglave]

Such a kawaii shota he has.

what it is a guy character?

I think it is female.

[Shirai]

Dang,
I have been fooled by ignorance.

Still stand by my statement regardless, lool

[Xaelouse]

I always wondered why they make another support class then give it useless support skills that makes pre-EP3 techer look good.

[FacelessRed]

The only real complaints that I can muster that are unique to Suganuma's leading are:


Gear rewards are pretty silly right now. The almost-unilaterally best armor set comes from one boss, best weapons all come from another. Rest of the game basically boils down to getting levels and cubes when power-farming those isn't optimal. XH doesn't have that much going for it when it's more rewarding to do a lower difficulty. The best symptom of this is all the drop mechanic changes to Anga and Magatsu.
Everything about Chain Graptor/Banish was hilariously mishandled.
Class rebalancing could use a few more iterations. BRmain could use some kind of offensive main-only advantage, TMGs could use more love to make TMG GU good again. Katana, Sword, and Knuckles could also use some looking at.


The second bullet point is pretty damning, but the others could possibly be temporary problems as new gear is rolled out and rewards are rebalanced. If he actually delivers on multi-affix searching, and makes optimal gear more varied in incentive/location as new areas are added, all is forgiven in my book.

Wait, what's wrong with sword?

Katana got nerfed to hell, so yes needs help, Knuckles I've always had problem with knuckles (the range / damage output is not that great) Almost all of fighter needs reworking imo.

But sword, I see no problem. Before sword had poor damage. But now it has pretty amazing damage and versatility.

[wefwq]

Wait, what's wrong with sword?

Katana got nerfed to hell, so yes needs help, Knuckles I've always had problem with knuckles (the range / damage output is not that great) Almost all of fighter needs reworking imo.

But sword, I see no problem. Before sword had poor damage. But now it has pretty amazing damage and versatility.
The only sword problem i can think that the fact all enemies already died before i can fill my gear gauge due to get shooted and nuked by the other classes.
Sword also the worst Hu weapon when it come to mobbing compared to the other 2 Hu weapons.

Knuckles are feels pretty mediocre atm, they need to fix it maybe slightly increase their reach, i don't understand why 80% of knuckles attack have almost no range at all and end up not hitting anything at all because enemies are running around.
Their range restriction are pretty ridiculous.

[FacelessRed]

The only sword problem i can think that the fact all enemies already died before i can fill my gear gauge due to get shooted and nuked by the other classes.
Sword also the worst Hu weapon when it come to mobbing compared to the other 2 Hu weapons.

Knuckles are feels pretty mediocre atm, they need to fix it maybe slightly increase their reach, i don't understand why 80% of knuckles attack have almost no range at all and end up not hitting anything at all because enemies are running around.
Their range restriction are pretty ridiculous.

Sword is still my favourite, but it IS the worst mobbing weapon. But Nova strike does me kindly (Yes I know that sounds silly that's why I said it that way). But HU is also my favourite class cause it feels like the only class that can fully utilize all its weapon choices in a fun way. But yeah, meh. I don't think Episode 3 is any worse than the previous iterations. Just now the OP classes got rekt and need to be fixed.

That's probably why I don't mind XH compared to everyone else. I can finally get all the kills on my sword without everything being dead already. (although in SH i could just guilty break everything in 1 go anyway)

[Walkure]

Two problems are setup and hitstop. The setup portion makes Sword impractical for mobbing. The hitstop gives problems on both mobbing AND bossing. Even ignoring hitstop on Sword (and Sword has tons of hitstop), Partisan and Wired Lance have higher damage options on a stationary mob.

So, you'd *want* to switch to another weapon for a lot of different reasons, but the setup starts falling apart immediately (gear still degenerates when other weapons are out, Sacrifice Bite buff disappears immediately). Also doesn't help that other weapon usage is limited anyways since using Sword effectively uses up a lot of palette spaces.

[FacelessRed]

Two problems are setup and hitstop. The setup portion makes Sword impractical for mobbing. The hitstop gives problems on both mobbing AND bossing. Even ignoring hitstop on Sword (and Sword has tons of hitstop), Partisan and Wired Lance have higher damage options on a stationary mob.

So, you'd *want* to switch to another weapon for a lot of different reasons, but the setup starts falling apart immediately (gear still degenerates when other weapons are out, Sacrifice Bite buff disappears immediately). Also doesn't help that other weapon usage is limited anyways since using Sword effectively uses up a lot of palette spaces.

I don't know what hitstop is. please clarify.

I only use 2 pallets on my sword. Also the sword damage is incredibly high compared to the other weapons, and It's not even from the difference between the two weapons s-atk value. I'm talking 800-900k with sword PA vs 150-200k damage with something else. vs bosses under the same conditions (same boss, WB and weak point damage, etc)

I don't see how sword is falling short by any means? If hit stop means the time between executing attacks, that is where the balance comes in. If I can quickly burst out rapid attacks but only at 1/3rd the power of a sword PA But I can do that PA almost 3 times before I use a sword PA (you can't in most situations but the damage difference is about right) Then it's not a problem, it's simply a playstyle issue with some users. Maybe you prefer attacking 3 times more for the price of 1 Sword PA, but it's not a balance issue.

[GoldenFalcon]

I don't know what hitstop is. please clarify.
When you hit an enemy and your character's animation pauses, making the animation take longer than if you didn't hit anything.

When hitting like 10 enemies, animations can take so long it's excruciating. Wand used to have this issue.

[FacelessRed]

When you hit an enemy and your character's animation pauses, making the animation take longer than if you didn't hit anything.

When hitting like 10 enemies, animations can take so long it's excruciating. Wand used to have this issue.

Ah I see what you mean, that makes sense. Yeah, I can see how that can be an issue. It's not so much for me, but if it were to change I'd need a lot time to get used to the new JA timing. ^^;

But if the "Hitstop" is reduced like other weapons you'd see a huge OP issue. I would love to hit a boss for 1m damage at twice the speed, but ... yeah, I don't wanna get suspended. lol.

[Walkure]

I don't know what hitstop is. please clarify.It's the character freezing on landing a successful attack. This is to give the feeling of weight behind hits as they land (which is fine as long as it's balanced around). With Sword, the hitstop is huge and harsh.


I only use 2 pallets on my sword. Also the sword damage is incredibly high compared to the other weapons, and It's not even from the difference between the two weapons s-atk value. I'm talking 800-900k with sword PA vs 150-200k damage with something else. vs bosses under the same conditions (same boss, WB and weak point damage, etc)
Okay let's just take a look at Hunter weapons real quick:


Holding Current at L17 has 4116 power at L17, it actually deals 25% more damage than the notation, and gets another 30% more damage from consuming gear for 6689 effective power.
Volg Raptor can be fed in a charged Slide End and a Zenith Throw for 1133 and 2124 power, respectively. If the Volg Raptor was fully charged (20% more damage) and had a Just Attack (30% more damage) behind it, the end explosion would basically have an effective power of 5080 behind it. The Slide End and Zenith Throw can be affected by gear for an extra 10% damage, making it closer to 5588 for a single hit.
Over End has a power of 2947 at L17, getting (effectively) 40% more damage at max gear, and 20% more damage for having Sacrifice Bite active for an end Power of 4951.


So, for a single-hit's worth of damage, Volg Raptor has higher potential (the closest damage example I can probably give is when I did a combo on Falz Elder's eye on HU/FI with a Trident Crusher that would have been off-element anyways. That did ~860k on just the end explosion).

Even looking at a single PA's potential damage, Sword has the lowest ceiling of all the Hunter weapons. And thanks to hitstop, all of these take roughly the same amount of time to execute. Womp womp womp woooooooooomp.

[GHNeko]

Womp womp womp woooooooooomp.

Don't mind me / You're Welcome. (http://www.sadtrombone.com/?play=true)

[FacelessRed]

It's the character freezing on landing a successful attack. This is to give the feeling of weight behind hits as they land (which is fine as long as it's balanced around). With Sword, the hitstop is huge and harsh.


Okay let's just take a look at Hunter weapons real quick:


Holding Current at L17 has 4116 power at L17, it actually deals 25% more damage than the notation, and gets another 30% more damage from consuming gear for 6689 effective power.
Volg Raptor can be fed in a charged Slide End and a Zenith Throw for 1133 and 2124 power, respectively. If the Volg Raptor was fully charged (20% more damage) and had a Just Attack (30% more damage) behind it, the end explosion would basically have an effective power of 5080 behind it. The Slide End and Zenith Throw can be affected by gear for an extra 10% damage, making it closer to 5588 for a single hit.
Over End has a power of 2947 at L17, getting (effectively) 40% more damage at max gear, and 20% more damage for having Sacrifice Bite active for an end Power of 4951.


So, for a single-hit's worth of damage, Volg Raptor has higher potential (the closest damage example I can probably give is when I did a combo on Falz Elder's eye on HU/FI with a Trident Crusher that would have been off-element anyways. That did ~860k on just the end explosion).

Even looking at a single PA's potential damage, Sword has the lowest ceiling of all the Hunter weapons. And thanks to hitstop, all of these take roughly the same amount of time to execute. Womp womp womp woooooooooomp.

Sorry but "potential" doesn't actually work out as useful, or actual damage.

Using Holding current on a boss like vibras? Yeah that's not going to work. Unless you play a game where the enemy is conveniently sitting still and not hitting you the whole damn time.

You can't Zenith throw Vibras, or infact any boss. If the enemy does not get effectively thrown, the damage is also reduced, don't ignore that. Volg also has a long cast time and a short damage window. On top of that it can also Miss pretty badly. 1 Over end does not take the same amount of time for a Volg combo vs a single target, don't be silly.

my 800-900k damage on vibras is off element as well (LVL 16 over end too), it would be nice to see what it would be with element but I don't think I'll be getting another 12* sword any time soon.

PSO isn't just about hard numbers it's about the feasibility of executing attacks on an enemy.

My gunner could easily do 100k+ per shot of elder rebellion if I were to just talk about stacking Chain and WB, but how often do I actually get to pull it off? You can't base an argument off of potentials. "Womp womp womp woooooooooomp."

[GHNeko]

idk bro im able to get like around 60-80 chain solo on Vibrace in the LQ....sooooo....

(granted auto lock doesnt fuck me overrr)

[FacelessRed]

idk bro im able to get like around 60-80 chain solo on Vibrace in the LQ....sooooo....

(granted auto lock doesnt fuck me overrr)

It's an example of how potential damage works. To say a class or a skill is better because of circumstantial abilities doesn't add up. You cant constantly chain every enemy you fight, ergo it's not really worth using as a basis to call another class terrible or another PA terrible or under performing because the situation is purely conditional.

Chain may have been a poor example, but saying I can insta kill a boss in SH doesn't mean I can instakill every thing I come across constantly all the time. (ALSO Volg- Slide-Zenith Take a significant amount more time to do than 1 over end.)

[Walkure]

Using Holding current on a boss like vibras? Yeah that's not going to work. Unless you play a game where the enemy is conveniently sitting still and not hitting you the whole damn time.Vibras can trip and fall over leaving him open to all these things.
You can't Zenith throw Vibras, or infact any boss. If the enemy does not get effectively thrown, the damage is also reduced, don't ignore that.Do you think Dark Falz Elder is throwable.

Zenith Throw (among other grabs like Fake Capture) were changed to do their full animation and damage either shortly after or during the Ep3 rollout changes.
Volg also has a long cast time and a short damage window. On top of that it can also Miss pretty badly. 1 Over end does not take the same amount of time for a Volg combo vs a single target, don't be silly.Takes 1 second to charge, the animation for Volg takes ~510ms to get to the JA circle, Slide End takes .5s to fully charge, ~710ms to get to the next JA circle without hitstop, Zenith Throw takes ~2090ms to execute. 4.81s without the hitstop on Slide End, so I'd wager ~5s is the shortest execution for a full combo.

Over End takes ~3950ms to execute without hitstop, and takes about 20% longer with hitstop on a single mob. That puts it at ~4.74s to execute.
my 800-900k damage on vibras is off element as well (LVL 16 over end too), it would be nice to see what it would be with element but I don't think I'll be getting another 12* sword any time soon.Ooh I knew I forgot something! Slide End and Zenith Throw were (and are) still L16 so I'm also missing 10% extra damage there.

You realize that I listed Trident Crusher (which has Ancient Oath potential) and the fact that it was off-element to imply that I was entirely missing out on a potential multiplier, right? Against Falz Elder, especially, since he has a huge resistance to all elements he's not weak against, so my 50 element would actually be closer to 15 element.
PSO isn't just about hard numbers it's about the feasibility of executing attacks on an enemy.

My gunner could easily do 100k+ per shot of elder rebellion if I were to just talk about stacking Chain and WB, but how often do I actually get to pull it off? You can't base an argument off of potentials. "Womp womp womp woooooooooomp."Idunno about you, but I like switching around weapons depending on what's more effective. So if some huge opportunity pops up to deal damage (darker mob falls over, etc), I can switch to WL/Partisan and milk the opportunity for all it's worth.

With Sword, there's a disincentive to switch weapons, because you immediately lose out on Sacrifice Bite and Sword gear continues decaying. Which, again, leads to my whole point of the problems being related to setup and hitstop.

[FacelessRed]

Vibras can trip and fall over leaving him open to all these things.Do you think Dark Falz Elder is throwable.

Zenith Throw (among other grabs like Fake Capture) were changed to do their full animation and damage either shortly after or during the Ep3 rollout changes.Takes 1 second to charge, the animation for Volg takes ~510ms to get to the JA circle, Slide End takes .5s to fully charge, ~710ms to get to the next JA circle without hitstop, Zenith Throw takes ~2090ms to execute. 4.81s without the hitstop on Slide End, so I'd wager ~5s is the shortest execution for a full combo.

Over End takes ~3950ms to execute without hitstop, and takes about 20% longer with hitstop on a single mob. That puts it at ~4.74s to execute.Ooh I knew I forgot something! Slide End and Zenith Throw were (and are) still L16 so I'm also missing 10% extra damage there.

You realize that I listed Trident Crusher (which has Ancient Oath potential) and the fact that it was off-element to imply that I was entirely missing out on a potential multiplier, right? Against Falz Elder, especially, since he has a huge resistance to all elements he's not weak against, so my 50 element would actually be closer to 15 element.Idunno about you, but I like switching around weapons depending on what's more effective. So if some huge opportunity pops up to deal damage (darker mob falls over, etc), I can switch to WL/Partisan and milk the opportunity for all it's worth.

With Sword, there's a disincentive to switch weapons, because you immediately lose out on Sacrifice Bite and Sword gear continues decaying. Which, again, leads to my whole point of the problems being related to setup and hitstop.

Wow, where to begin?

First of all, you seem to be arguing a moot problem. You're saying because other weapons CAN POTENTIALLY out damage sword that makes sword a poor choice. Which again is not a correct logic to follow. I reiterate. Because something can potentially out damage something does not make it the poorer choice by default.

For starters, You ignore ease of use.

2nd, you are blatently comparing the dps output of 3 PA vs 1 PA.

You're ignoring the benefit of a skill with Super armor, and time in and out of super-armor.

You're also ignoring the benefit of range , time consumed to execute skill and rate of failure to execute said skill. (Which is why I say sword is fine the way it is)

Even if what you said is true, spewing out numbers like some robot, and capable of executing said skill like some robot (WHICH YOU ARE NOT) You are still subject to the type of enemy you are facing, what weapon is best used on that enemy, and ease of use of said combos skills and items.

There is nearly nothing easier than using over end. It's simple it's straight forward, and you can pretty much instantly fill your gear gauge now. (So gear is not really an issue at all)

You also do not factor in the speed boost of Sacrifice bite, but that is besides the point.

You're still attempting to say that because I can potentially deal more damage in this time frame using 3 PA's vs the single PA of overend, Sword is gimped. That is a really poor point of view.

Each PA is subject to its pro's and cons, and the swords ease of use, consistent damage and Super armor during mos tof its PA's the hitstop trade off is not really a big issue. In-fact I'd go so far as to say that it's pretty much the only thing keeping hunters from being the next Braver Shunka spam psychos.

If you want to Min-max and go super technical, spew all these numbers and make your play-time like some sort of robot number crunching game, be my guest. But I will sit here, do the same or nearly the same dps as you do with my feet up, thanks.

(ANd my PSO just crashed RIGHT AT THE END OF MINING BASE ARRRRRRGH)

[Z-0]

sword sucks

if you are really a min-maxer or someone who cares about efficiency, you will never be using sword. I'm not gonna bother arguing with you because it seems you don't really want to listen, but that's the truth. (I mean Walkure kind of showed you why...)

[GoldenFalcon]

You're saying because other weapons CAN POTENTIALLY out damage sword that makes sword a poor choice.

2nd, you are blatently comparing the dps output of 3 PA vs 1 PA.

You're ignoring the benefit of a skill with Super armor, and time in and out of super-armor.

You're also ignoring the benefit of range , time consumed to execute skill and rate of failure to execute said skill. (Which is why I say sword is fine the way it is)

Yes, because when you are faced with a boss's weak point, that potentiality makes a weapon better than the other.

That's because dps is a timed average. Over Ender is long. Someone with a spear isn't going to sit there while you swing gracefully.

This person is not arguing that you should use intricate combos on volatile mobs. Super armor is useless in the correct situation.

Over Ender doesn't even have more range than geared Slide End, and like I said, they won't use intricate combos when there can be failure based on AI. (they also supplied you with how much time is consumed)


Basically, you're arguing by adding in different situations. They even stated that they only switch to the spear combo when the potentiality presents itself.

Edit: and obviously I get ninja'd by a more eloquent response

[FacelessRed]

if you are really a min-maxer or someone who cares about efficiency, you will never be using sword.

Reading comprehension levels critically low. How do you function?


Yes, because when you are faced with a boss's weak point, that potentiality makes a weapon better than the other.

That's because dps is a timed average. Over Ender is long. Someone with a spear isn't going to sit there while you swing gracefully.

This person is not arguing that you should use intricate combos on volatile mobs. Super armor is useless in the correct situation.

Over Ender doesn't even have more range than geared Slide End, and like I said, they won't use intricate combos when there can be failure based on AI. (they also supplied you with how much time is consumed)


Basically, you're arguing by adding in different situations. They even stated that they only switch to the spear combo when the potentiality presents itself.

Edit: and obviously I get ninja'd by a more eloquent response

At no point did I say that wasn't the case. I literally said to call another weapon useless because one excels at one thing over another is stupid. You have to compare ease of use and effort to decide whether something is worth using for your playstyle. and because you can do X% more damage with another weapon doesn't mean you as a player deem it worth while to use. READ WHAT I AM SAYING.

[GoldenFalcon]

At no point did I say that wasn't the case. I literally said to call another weapon useless because one excels at one thing over another is stupid.

You could ask what they use instead of sword in all of those other cases

[FacelessRed]

You could ask what they use instead of sword in all of those other cases

How is that relevant to my argument of ease of use and functionality makes sword a worthwhile weapon?

[GoldenFalcon]

How is that relevant to my argument of ease of use and functionality makes sword a worthwhile weapon?

Functionality

The "ease of use" argument leads to "git gud" as well

[FacelessRed]

Functionality

The "ease of use" argument leads to "git gud" as well

And that leads back to my previous quote: "If you want to min-max and play as robotically as possible, then be my guest."

How you play has everything to do with what is considered balance. If there is a more advanced option that leads to higher dps outputs then it's your choice whether to pursue that option. But to deem a weapon ineffective or stupid because it doesn't give you that 2 second edge or that 10% extra is elitist, short-sighted and quite frankly makes you sound like a tool.

[GoldenFalcon]

If there is a more advanced option that leads to higher dps outputs then it's your choice whether to pursue that option. But to deem a weapon ineffective or stupid because it doesn't give you that 2 second edge or that 10% extra

That's somewhat the definition of efficient.

Why do you have such an issue with being told that you are less efficient? You chose it

[FacelessRed]

That's somewhat the definition of efficient.

Why do you have such an issue with being told that you are less efficient? You chose it

Strawman argument.

At no point did I say I was more efficient than what the person suggested. What I did say was that the difference isn't enough for me to deem sword a bad weapon. And that its ease of use is appealing. And I justified this by pointing out the issues I had with what they considered caused sword to need "looking at" . Try again.

[vantpers]

Volgraptor is worse than Over End in PP usage, lack of super armor in the important parts, Slide End not being the best choice for aerial combat and the fact that Zenith Throw barely fits the combo with its last hit at point blank range. And after you perform all that you are out of gear.

Holding Current is worse than Over End in how you can't cancel it at all while being full of super armor, the fact that you can't let the enemy move for the tip to shock what's important, and how you need to space it out properly making it at times straight unusable, mostly not really fitting in with other PAs for combos.

Partizan eats too much PP when you mob. Sword has 2/3 of the PA price for twice the damage discount. Wired Lances are not even good at mobbing comparably. Sword gear has its advantages over Partizan's too, the most important one is that it never tells you to stop hitting to recharge.

Sword probably isn't used that much because it dislikes weapon switching and gets incredibly cumbersome for anything that doesn't main Hunter with Fury Gear.

[Maenara]

Volgraptor is worse than Over End in PP usage, lack of super armor in the important parts

what

It's charge -> release. That's it. As far as I know, there's no PA in the game that gives you super armor while charging, and if there is/was, it would most likely be a PA that locks you in place while charging, like Ilfoie or Satellite Cannon(Neither of them give you it).

Vol Graptor is amazing in PP usage. It costs 20 PP, and it does technically does more than 1.5x the damage of any other attack in the game that can be done in less than 3 seconds, because it not only replicates said attack's exact damage, it also multiplies it by 1.56x provided you've charged and JA'd it. Are you saying it's bad because you need to use PP for other PAs in order for it to do any damage? That's fallible thinking, because it implies that you don't get the damage for those other PA(s). You can't count the 15 PP from Zenith Throw in Vol Graptor's cost, because Zenith Throw still does its own damage. That'd be like saying Weak Bullet costs 32 PP if you use in conjunction with Satellite Cannon.

[vantpers]

I should've probably added that I meant the entire combo. And it does have way less super armor than Over End. And who cares that there is no PA that gives you SA during charge? Over End doesn't require charging.

The PP usage of the combo is worse than Over End and requires you to actually have a reserve of PP for it, that's on top of every other Partizan PA draining PP easily. And no it's not "any other attack in the game...". It needs to be a Partizan attack or a tech. And I count the entire's combo damage and PP use. That's as fair as it gets.

[Maenara]

Over End can't do this though.
[spoiler-box]http://i.imgur.com/gmHmjKF.png[/spoiler-box]

[vantpers]

Yeah I never managed to let Wolghada reach the tower on TD3 with Over End.

[Maenara]

Yeah I never managed to let Wolghada reach the tower on TD3 with Over End.

Cute.

[Walkure]

First of all, you seem to be arguing a moot problem. You're saying because other weapons CAN POTENTIALLY out damage sword that makes sword a poor choice. Which again is not a correct logic to follow. I reiterate. Because something can potentially out damage something does not make it the poorer choice by default.It's a poorer choice for specific situations, is all I was saying. The switching penalizes add time for switching to another weapon if it's better for a certain situation, and switch back and that was one of the main sticking points.
2nd, you are blatently comparing the dps output of 3 PA vs 1 PA.Honestly, I was trying to give an upper end figure for the effective power output of a Volg Combo's final explosion. If I wanted to compare DPS it'd include the previous hits as damage beforehand.

It's kinda hard to compare Bow/Partisan PA balance for bossing because of Banishing/Volg. They're especially good at bossing because of those skills, so it's not like you can outright ignore them.
If you want to Min-max and go super technical, spew all these numbers and make your play-time like some sort of robot number crunching game, be my guest. But I will sit here, do the same or nearly the same dps as you do with my feet up, thanks.I didn't even set out to throwing around numbers in this thread exactly; I mainly wanted to give an example where switching weapons would normally be a good idea. Hence why I gave very generalized statements like "higher damage options on a stationary mob" and "take about the same time".
(´・ω ・`)


Partizan eats too much PP when you mob. Sword has 2/3 of the PA price for twice the damage discount. Wired Lances are not even good at mobbing comparably. Sword gear has its advantages over Partizan's too, the most important one is that it never tells you to stop hitting to recharge.

Sword probably isn't used that much because it dislikes weapon switching and gets incredibly cumbersome for anything that doesn't main Hunter with Fury Gear.Yep, that's a part where Sword does pretty well. Really is PP efficient mobbing.


The PP usage of the combo is worse than Over End and requires you to actually have a reserve of PP for it, that's on top of every other Partizan PA draining PP easily.They have similar levels of damage dealt per PP spent. Over End sits between the combo with and without gear on that measurement.

[vantpers]

They have similar levels of damage dealt per PP spent. Over End sits between the combo with and without gear on that measurement.
Sword has some satk over Partizans in comparison. There is no problem in latent difference because of 13 stars and Swords getting Black Heart which is comparable or better in power than Ancient Oath. The satk advantage gets bigger when you count in elemental satk of weaponry. And to be honest in practice it feels much worse to manage as I said. Partially because Sword manages to be PP efficient with pretty much any important PA you take.

[Walkure]

I was including weapon attack with that, with Bio weapons at first but I swapped in values for Ares weapons and the statement still holds. They're both really good at damage for PP spent. The only thing that really beats either of those is Holding Current, and Zenith Throw on it's own (with or without Volg).

And yeah I get the feeling that Volg Combo PP management seems worse. Maybe it's just because 40-60PP is where you'd normally be able to throw a PA or two, but you need to keep building PP to Volg.

[TaigaUC]

Suganuma's initial balance fixes were pretty decent, but lately PSO2 in general has gone back to meh in terms of both content and balance.
Lots of people seem to be complaining about the lag, too.

I doubt that these issues are entirely his fault. Whatever his position, I'm sure he's on a short leash.

[Kiyumi]

Oooooh the last few pages of this thread were fun. We found the "I spam Over End and think Im good" baddie. I swear I saw this guy using it on a Krahda in the Desert EQ the other day. 1 Krahda! You know those cute little scorpion dudes that fit in your hand? Those things that would die in 3 normal attacks anyway? (and has already died because everyone else used faster, more efficient moves on it) Yeah this guy used Over End on it, because every other Sword PA takes more than 5 seconds to charge! What a great weapon!

I hope I can party with you sometime Mr Over End spam guy! You can join the "I-only-use-Namegid" guy and the "Shunka-is-the-only-PA-katanas-have-even-though-its-2015" guy!

[Sizustar]

Suganuma's initial balance fixes were pretty decent, but lately PSO2 in general has gone back to meh in terms of both content and balance.
Lots of people seem to be complaining about the lag, too.

I doubt that these issues are entirely his fault. Whatever his position, I'm sure he's on a short leash.

Very short it seems.
From people that talked to him at live festa, and other interview, he has alot of interesting idea, but either due to Sega or someone else, he can't implement them.
First thing he wanted to implement was the multiple search, which he showed off at G-heaven, but not able to, because Sega won't update the server, which will probabely fix alot of the lag problem too, and enable him to do more to the system. His idea of Gunner is focused on Chaining.

If you go to ship 3, you can try to look for him, I only go there to talk to the SA maker, and visit their SA events to get limited SA.

[wefwq]

You can't blame lags to SGNM, as he's not in charge of server equipment.
The lag itself are pretty much inventable due to increased active player after EP3 release, that will eventually decrease over time until EP4 hits.

[EvilMag]

It's already decreasing. I was on this morning at peak time and during TD3, all ships were on normal status.

[Achelousaurus]

Suganuma do very well with the start of ep3.
And he isn't responsible for server lag or dripfeed. But if he really is in charge of all of ep, he IS responsible for gu nerf and adding Chase Arrow to a boss killer weapon that desperately needs better mobbing.

He may play the game but I am quite sure he doesn't play all class much and just changes the game according to his wants and playstyle.

[Triple_S]

On the topic of swords... Swords are nice. They hit really hard. Problem is that you need to be a HU main and have Fury Gear Boost to make good use of them, and then you can't switch away from them or you'll lose a large part of your boost.

As much as I love the concept of Volg Raptor and Banish Arrow, they fuck up balance really hard. That being said, I think Swords would still lose to Wired Lances and Partisans in terms of damage output if Volg was removed.

So, what would make them better? Probably a tweak to the gear system so it doesn't drain so quickly. I wouldn't want it to be based around consumable charges though. Or, maybe higher gear giving increased range and even higher damage on everything, even normal attacks (imagine having the Over End sword length at all times, lol)? One could just give Swords a Volg/Banish-style PA, but that's a really shitty band-aid fix. Making Volg be a HU main skill would be interesting, but then there's the issue of already being tight on SP.

[Walkure]

Without Volg Raptor, Partisans would instantly be mediocre/bad at bossing and single-target damage again. If HU could use Volg Raptor on any weapon, it'd probably be best to Holding Current and try to fit as many of the ticks into the explosion as possible.

Something allowing Sacrifice Bite and Sword Gear to retain while another weapon type is out would help a lot. Lowering single-target hitstop would also give more reason to keep Swords out on single-hits.

[Triple_S]

Without Volg Raptor, Partisans would instantly be mediocre/bad at bossing and single-target damage again. If HU could use Volg Raptor on any weapon, it'd probably be best to Holding Current and try to fit as many of the ticks into the explosion as possible.

Something allowing Sacrifice Bite and Sword Gear to retain while another weapon type is out would help a lot. Lowering single-target hitstop would also give more reason to keep Swords out on single-hits.

Yeah, I know Partisans need Volg (and it's kinda sad really). I forgot about Holding Current when mentioning HU-skill Volg though... that'd be a problem.


Anyway, you'd figure the big-ass swords used in this game would carry enough momentum to cut clean through enemies, so why so much hitstop? Then again, that hitstop is part of what makes hitting shit so satisfying, so I dunno if I'd want it gone. It really feels like you got a solid, heavy hit when everything stops like that.

Sacrifice Bite and Sword Gear being stored while using other weapons would be very nice and would go toward making them a more appealing option... but it doesn't actually make them better, when you get right down to it. It fixes the issue of not wanting to change away from a Sword because you'll lose so much, but it doesn't really make you want to use one either because other options are, more often than not, better and easier.




Personally, I've always felt that Swords should synergize with the defensive HU tree. They should do absolutely incredible damage at full gear without needing Fury Stance, and they super-armor through shit, but you're wide open to take damage while attacking. The reason is that their attacks take a while but either burst so hard that it's worth it (think Over End), or dish out so many heavy hits that you can't easily get out of the way (closest I can think of is Ignition Parry but well, that has a parry mechanic). Using Guard Stance and the like would greatly reduce this damage and allow you to tank hits and dish out plenty of damage without a problem. Basically, Swords need to take a few points from PSU's Axes, only minus Anga Jabroken tossing all the enemies out of range.

However, the only way that'd really work is if there was a skill that increased solely Sword damage and super armor while in Guard Stance as opposed to making Swords stronger overall, because it's still a thing that mobs don't really get much of a chance to attack. If it wasn't tied to Guard Stance being active, you'd end up with people running Fury builds with the beefed-up Sword and dealing insane damage while not really having to worry about being hit because either the enemies were pulled into Zondeel/Gravity Grenade/etc and are helpless, or they're dead on spawn anyway. Ideally, Partisans and Wired Lances would still be capable of more with Fury so long as they weren't in immediate danger, but a Sword would still dish out high and respectable damage while being able to stay in the fray and keep attacking without worry.

It's not something I've really taken the time to think too detailed about just yet, so I doubt that idea is really a good one. I still stand by the fact that Swords should be the weapon of choice if you go down Guard Stance, though, and that a purely defensive HU build (one that doesn't get Fury Stance at all) should have a way to be viable but not the best. The problem is just that the game isn't structured around allowing that to work well. Damage is everything. One could definitely argue that there's a plus side to never fearing enemy attacks and just cracking skulls constantly, while all aggro is centered on a focal point (you) for everyone else to come in and clean house. However, you also could have just killed those enemies much faster.

[Kiyumi]

*long post*

I think it would be best if sword gear didnt decay at all. Or have it work like katana gear. You build gear with attacks, it doesnt go down. Then when you successfully guard, it gives also increases damage but goes down like it does currently.

I mean its not like swords would be OP or anything since all its moves already have obvious drawbacks and limitations. Charge time should not be one of them. Its really not fun spending more effort on retaining gear than attacking.

[Triple_S]

I think it would be best if sword gear didnt decay at all. Or have it work like katana gear. You build gear with attacks, it doesnt go down. Then when you successfully guard, it gives also increases damage but goes down like it does currently.

I mean its not like swords would be OP or anything since all its moves already have obvious drawbacks and limitations. Charge time should not be one of them. Its really not fun spending more effort on retaining gear than attacking.

All Sword PAs function as if at full gear at all times but building gear and Just Guarding gives an extra damage boost while draining gear? I suppose that could work. If you mean that Sword Gear functions the same as it does now but doesn't decay, and getting a boost on block that drains gear, then well... why would I ever want to trigger that?

[GoldenFalcon]

So... you want Sword gear to act like Katana gear?

Use Katana instead

[Triple_S]

So... you want Sword gear to act like Katana gear?

Use Katana instead

While I don't want Sword Gear to function like katana gear myself... it's farfetched to imply that the gears acting similarly means the weapons themselves are interchangeable.

[NoiseHERO]

should prolly just take out all the gears instead using lazy ways to add pointless weapon strengths and weaknesses.

[Triple_S]

should prolly just take out all the gears instead using lazy ways to add pointless weapon strengths and weaknesses.

I think weapon gears are interesting when they don't amount to +damage or +speed on your attacks (or at the very least do so interestingly).

Double Saber Gear is neat. Dual Blades Gear is neat. Jet Boots Gear is neat. As for something that isn't neat, well, Knuckle Gear doesn't do anything interesting (though very useful). It boosts speed and damage if you don't get hit. Instead, knuckles could just be faster and stronger in general, and Knuckle Gear could do some Shadow Clone bullshit, like Monks/Infighters in DFO. It'd let you increase the damage dealt by any PA by using a gear charge (Shift action at very start of PA, maybe) to create a "Shadow Clone" trail behind you that deals half of your damage during the PA at max level. Just a quick idea.

[Radical Dreamer]

As for something that isn't neat, well, Knuckle Gear doesn't do anything interesting (though very useful). It boosts speed and damage if you don't get hit. Instead, knuckles could just be faster and stronger in general, and Knuckle Gear could do some Shadow Clone bullshit, like Monks/Infighters in DFO. It'd let you increase the damage dealt by any PA by using a gear charge (Shift action at very start of PA, maybe) to create a "Shadow Clone" trail behind you that deals half of your damage during the PA at max level. Just a quick idea.

So it'd be like Zero's Heat Haze subweapon from Megaman X Command Mission? That'd be interesting.

... I'm probably the only person who played that game on this board, aren't I?

EDIT: Since people more than likely don't know what I'm talking about: http://youtu.be/stTD8KX2k04?t=4m16s