Cmode 13* vs Anga 13*, which one is stronger

[kgrc199913]

between Cmode 13* and anga 13*, which one will you choose ? why ?

[Dephinix]

Anga life, Cmode sounds sketchy for rewards. Potential sounds nice if anything.

[Sizustar]

between Cmode 13* and anga 13*, which one will you choose ? why ?

We don't know the potentional for the Cmode 13* yet, except that it will be useful against the boss.

Attack stat wise, it's about 100 X-atk less on average, but has the same 60% element as Anga.

[final_attack]

Probably Cmode *13, because it's stronger for bosses (I think they said that before) .... Mobbing is pretty good so far using available *11 weapons.

[kgrc199913]

i heard that cmode pot is increase 30% damage to boss, if it's true, cmode weapon will be stronger

[Shinamori]

Stronger for bosses, yes.

[Xaelouse]

wired lance/FI weapons/assault rifle/tmgs/bow/dual blades - > cmode
anything else -> anga (or whatever else Ult Lilipa drops)

Mobs go down effectively to crafted 11* and lower as it is, so extra damage against bosses sounds much more important.

[wefwq]

Isn't anga *13 pot makes weapon stronger as PB gauge fills?
By default anga's already got bigger stat, so probably anga being more powerful in general.

We didn't know how much % damage will boosted for cmode *13, but anga stronger stat wise (excluding weapon potential), along with pretty decent boost from potential.
Still, this means advantage for cmode *13 on certain boss EQ where your PB gauge probably won't filled up at all.

[Poyonche]

Cmode because I find them more beautiful than the Anga's one, and also because I hate to Anga farm, I prefer to cmode farm, it looks 100 times better.

Edit : just noticed I am off topic, but Anga are stronger, better base atk and potnt boost damage as your PB gauge fill (go Ketos Proi it is so easy to charge), but against boss, I also think Cmode 13* will be better.

[kgrc199913]

i dont think any 7x will have problem with mob... (ok, not uq mob )

[Sizustar]

i heard that cmode pot is increase 30% damage to boss, if it's true, cmode weapon will be stronger

We don't know the specific damage boosts, only stated that it will be more useful for boss.

[Aine]

They stated on the livestream that Ares would be better than Ideal against mobs, but Ideal would be better than Ares against bosses.

[Poyonche]

They stated on the livestream that Ares would be better than Ideal against mobs, but Ideal would be better than Ares against bosses.


fixed :3

[LonelyGaruga]

between Cmode 13* and anga 13*, which one will you choose ? why ?

What's stopping someone from getting both.

[branflakes325]

What's stopping someone from getting both.

the choice between farming anga and doing c-mode runs

obviously

[LonelyGaruga]

Not seeing how it's a choice. Unless you're getting a rainbow set (like I will), you only need a couple Ideal weapons. If it takes one full day of playing to get CQs like Sega says, it's three days to get a 60 element Ideal weapon. I'll give it one week for the typical player. That means it takes two-three weeks to get a 60 element Ideal weapon for every weapon you'd use it for. If you're getting a rainbow set, then it'll take a month for each weapon in theory, but if you're getting a rainbow set, you probably aren't a typical player, so shorten that to three days for every 60 element weapon, or two weeks for each weapon category.

So after about a month (at most) of running Challenge Quests, it's back to Anga farming. Can't call that a choice when Challenge Quests are basically a speed bump.

[jooozek]

i'll pick c-mode rares just because there is a progression not random drop bullshit

[Stealthcmc1974]

i'll pick c-mode rares just because there is a progression not random drop bullshit

Amen to that.

[Terrence]

強闘心 (Colossal Spirit) - Boosts damage against bosses by 6%/8/%/10%.
It appears it has been datamined... It's even written on Cirnopedia now.

[AzurEnd]

the choice between farming anga and doing c-mode runs

obviously


Amen to that.

Let's not forget Cmode probably wont be as mind numbing as farming that one specific enemy for a rare drop...

At least Cmode has the potential to be different every run since your at the mercy of RNGeezus with what stuff you gotta use till you reach that Intermission area.


強闘心 (Colossal Spirit) - Boosts damage against bosses by 6%/8/%/10%.
It appears it has been datamined... It's even written on Cirnopedia now.

I hope thats just placeholder for a test because if its only a +10% Boost against bosses only then their idea of making the Ideal series better than Ares for bossing is already shot.

[LonelyGaruga]

I'm expecting that's a placeholder value. It's common for Sega to put non-final values in information that gets datamined. For example, when hitzones were datamined early in EP2, before Quarry, Blu Ringahda's hitzones were in the list, and it had a fire weakness instead of a wind weakness. Which really blatantly doesn't make any sense, because its internal name clearly labeled it as a bird darker. So I wouldn't trust datamining when it comes to numbers.

That being said, if it is 10%, Ares weapons > Ideal weapons any day. Just gonna grab a 60 element Ideal weapon and quit CQs forever.

[Terrence]

I hope thats just placeholder for a test because if its only a +10% Boost against bosses only then their idea of making the Ideal series better than Ares for bossing is already shot.

I'm expecting that's a placeholder value. It's common for Sega to put non-final values in information that gets datamined.
I hope you're both right, 10% being weak indeed. But since Ares weapons must be dropped whereas Ideal ones can be easily* crafted, they may not be as powerful (ATK and Potential) as those you get from Anga. :-(

* Since you get Miles Points when you fail, you'll be able to craft a 13★ weapon even if you fail C-Mode billion times and if it takes you months.

[Shinamori]

Can't craft 13* weapons, at least not yet.

[LonelyGaruga]

I think he means craft as in "create a weapon" and not the game mechanic. Like AQ, XQ, and Zieg trade-ins.

[Achelousaurus]

Not seeing how it's a choice. Unless you're getting a rainbow set (like I will), you only need a couple Ideal weapons. If it takes one full day of playing to get CQs like Sega says, it's three days to get a 60 element Ideal weapon. I'll give it one week for the typical player. That means it takes two-three weeks to get a 60 element Ideal weapon for every weapon you'd use it for. If you're getting a rainbow set, then it'll take a month for each weapon in theory, but if you're getting a rainbow set, you probably aren't a typical player, so shorten that to three days for every 60 element weapon, or two weeks for each weapon category.

So after about a month (at most) of running Challenge Quests, it's back to Anga farming. Can't call that a choice when Challenge Quests are basically a speed bump.
Sega isn't very credible with their statements.

And doing 1 day of runs is extremely vague, this could mean a full mpa of skilled players that know cmode inside out playing for 16 hours.
It's highly unlikely we get 13* so easily after Anga farming taking so much time, especially when little rng is involved and they are allegedly even better than Anga weapons against bosses.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the final value is like 14% or something, putting it like 0.5% about Anga weapons against bosses.

Yeah, I don't think very highly of Sega.

[LonelyGaruga]

Sega isn't very credible, but more often than not, they underestimate players, not overestimate them. I don't think they've ever overestimated players.

Going off what we've seen on the livestream, I don't expect a full run of CQs to take more than 10 minutes. I think the estimates, taking into account Mile Crystals, put it at 90 runs to get one Ideal weapon, and that's not including any unknown bonuses on the fifth floor. That would be 15 hours of playing if each CQ took 10 minutes. But odds are, counting fifth floor bonuses, it'll be closer to 60 runs, or 10 hours of playing.

Without any mile bonuses at all, it would take 103 runs (17 hours by my 6 runs per hour estimate) to get an Ideal weapon. So Ideal weapons are pretty generous no matter how you look at it.

[TaigaUC]

I'm not liking this trend of increasing enemy HP by a shitton with the only counter being to obtain super-rare 13 star weapons that require unlocking potential.

Also, a reminder that the C-mode 13 stars come with 20 element. Have fun earning enough C-miles to cover 3 per weapon.

[wefwq]

Sega isn't very credible, but more often than not, they underestimate players, not overestimate them. I don't think they've ever overestimated players.

Going off what we've seen on the livestream, I don't expect a full run of CQs to take more than 10 minutes. I think the estimates, taking into account Mile Crystals, put it at 90 runs to get one Ideal weapon, and that's not including any unknown bonuses on the fifth floor. That would be 15 hours of playing if each CQ took 10 minutes. But odds are, counting fifth floor bonuses, it'll be closer to 60 runs, or 10 hours of playing.

Without any mile bonuses at all, it would take 103 runs (17 hours by my 6 runs per hour estimate) to get an Ideal weapon. So Ideal weapons are pretty generous no matter how you look at it.
Don't forget that we can collect item along the way for additional mile points.

[Rehal]

Also, a reminder that the C-mode 13 stars come with 20 element. Have fun earning enough C-miles to cover 3 per weapon.

Yea it's so shitty that we need to get like 500k+ C-miles to 60 ele one ideal weapon. Totally would go hunt 1 or 2 anga and get a 60 ele ares over doing this. :D

[Maenara]

Yea it's so shitty that we need to get like 500k+ C-miles to 60 ele one ideal weapon. Totally would go hunt 1 or 2 anga and get a 60 ele ares over doing this. :D

Yeah, because we have any idea of how much 500k miles actually is.

[Xaeris]

Sega isn't very credible, but more often than not, they underestimate players, not overestimate them. I don't think they've ever overestimated players.


They overestimated us with the post level 50 exp requirements the first time around! And how.

[Rehal]

Yeah, because we have any idea of how much 500k miles actually is.
Yes.
1000+ CM runs for a 60 element ideal weapon sounds superior compared to 1000+ runs of doing anga hunt for a bullshit chance of getting an ares for me.
That's assuming we never manage to clear the last stage in CM.
http://puu.sh/gqWMm/dbbbb43676.jpg

[Maenara]

Oh, I misinterpreted your earlier message.

[Macman]

I'm still flabbergasted that Sega is essentially obsoleting 12* so soon after making them 'commonplace'.

[Aine]

fixed :3

how did that happen

edited

[LonelyGaruga]

Also, a reminder that the C-mode 13 stars come with 20 element. Have fun earning enough C-miles to cover 3 per weapon.

It's only ~200 runs to get a 60 element weapon.


Don't forget that we can collect item along the way for additional mile points.

Those were taken into account.


They overestimated us with the post level 50 exp requirements the first time around! And how.

Oh yeah...to be honest I think that was completely intentional, but it's hard to say.

[Aine]

I'm expecting that's a placeholder value. It's common for Sega to put non-final values in information that gets datamined. For example, when hitzones were datamined early in EP2, before Quarry, Blu Ringahda's hitzones were in the list, and it had a fire weakness instead of a wind weakness. Which really blatantly doesn't make any sense, because its internal name clearly labeled it as a bird darker. So I wouldn't trust datamining when it comes to numbers.

That being said, if it is 10%, Ares weapons > Ideal weapons any day. Just gonna grab a 60 element Ideal weapon and quit CQs forever.

If it's 10% then an Ideal weapon is roughly equal to Ares with an empty PB gauge. So there's not much point getting an Ideal to 60...

[Xaelouse]

Sega isn't very credible with their statements.



If Sega scums people out, people have the right to make an uproar about it enough to get Sega to make the potential stronger anyway. Or they risk people dropping the content very early. People are quitting the game left and right as is... so they can't really afford doing scummy shit.

This content is meant to last for a quite awhile. Notice the Lambda grinders in the shop at a fairly cheap price? People will come back for that even if they have no more desire for c-mode 13*

[Sanguine2009]

it is certainly true that ares will beat it if 10% does end up being the latent but at least its possible to work toward rather than no lifeing anga and hoping for it drop anything at all, much less the right weapon type multiple times.

[ArcaneTechs]

This content is meant to last for a quite awhile. Notice the Lambda grinders in the shop at a fairly cheap price? People will come back for that even if they have no more desire for c-mode 13*

you can't buy lambda grinders in player shops, Zieg CO's or 50 Ex Cubes, so where your getting a price is beyond me


If Sega scums people out, people have the right to make an uproar about it enough to get Sega to make the potential stronger anyway. Or they risk people dropping the content very early. People are quitting the game left and right as is... so they can't really afford doing scummy shit.

the only people that will be crying about this are the ones who refuse to farm Anga because your welfare 13*'s just don't hold up, deal with it or wait until Ult Lilipa

[Xaelouse]

But you can buy Lambda grinders from the miles exchange shop (the only shop relevant to the discussion), is what I'm saying.
Context is hard

[ArcaneTechs]

But you can buy Lambda grinders from the miles exchange shop (the only shop relevant to the discussion), is what I'm saying.
Context is hard

I wasn't aware they were part of the Mile Shop, I only glanced at the list (and saw nothing of interest) so apologies on that part

[hoangsea]

shop stuffs always weaker than drop stuff if compare with the same tier
so i'm sure that ares weapons will still stronger, atleast in most of situation
if they add an new boss hunter potential CM weapons will only stronger against bosses

[LonelyGaruga]

If it's 10% then an Ideal weapon is roughly equal to Ares with an empty PB gauge. So there's not much point getting an Ideal to 60...

My current weapon as Fo/Te is a 30 element +20 Bio Rias. I'm pretty sure this'll be better than the unacceptably pitiful setup I have. My Te/Hu is fully geared barring a couple weapons, so I might just switch to that and skip getting Ideal weapons entirely and run CQs exclusively for things like +2s and Merit+30%s.

[qoxolg]

My current weapon as Fo/Te is a 30 element +20 Bio Rias. I'm pretty sure this'll be better than the unacceptably pitiful setup I have. My Te/Hu is fully geared barring a couple weapons, so I might just switch to that and skip getting Ideal weapons entirely and run CQs exclusively for things like +2s and Merit+30%s.

The Techer meta game has been stale since like EP3 and the introduction of the Pristine Small Hammer. I think I will get one Ideal wand (light element) for min max sake during EQ bosses.

[Maenara]

inb4 Lillipa UQ has a new 13* wand with Ancient Oath.

[rashoood]

I will go for Cmode simply because I killed anga countless times without luck XD

[TaigaUC]

So, I realized earlier that C-mode is probably going to be open to level 1 newbies.
That's going to make random PUGs even more terrifying.

Unless I'm wrong and there's some kind of prerequisite? I hope so.

[kgrc199913]

i read somewhere that cmode weapon pot lvl3 increase 30% damage to boss, i just cant remember where :'(

[Poyonche]

So, I realized earlier that C-mode is probably going to be open to level 1 newbies.
That's going to make random PUGs even more terrifying.

Unless I'm wrong and there's some kind of prerequisite? I hope so.

"Own a very hard licence"

As very hard EQ are usually the worst MPA.

[TaigaUC]

Hmm, okay. Thanks.

[SilenWhisper]

So, I realized earlier that C-mode is probably going to be open to level 1 newbies.
That's going to make random PUGs even more terrifying.

Unless I'm wrong and there's some kind of prerequisite? I hope so.

Do newbies even know what C-mode is?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Do newbies even know what C-mode is?

They have broadcasts for a reason.

[Keilyn]

I want the C-Mode weapons.

My build is called "wandchaser" and its mobbing and subboss killing abilities are spectacular, but I need better things for killing bosses.

I tested a lot playing in LQ to get mobs together and I do pretty well for myself with some of the combinations that I figured out.

To me, the issue of XH will not be the mobs. It will be the bosses that have a ton more health, so having a potential to damage against bosses will be great. ^_^

[Achelousaurus]

Going off what we've seen on the livestream, I don't expect a full run of CQs to take more than 10 minutes.
:no:
Don't say something this scary.
Anyway, my point is not sega over/underestimating anyone but rather not giving us stuff easily. Ever.


If Sega scums people out, people have the right to make an uproar about it enough to get Sega to make the potential stronger anyway. Or they risk people dropping the content very early. People are quitting the game left and right as is... so they can't really afford doing scummy shit.

This content is meant to last for a quite awhile. Notice the Lambda grinders in the shop at a fairly cheap price? People will come back for that even if they have no more desire for c-mode 13*
I see sega making bad decisions that piss off a lot of people every time they do anything.
They don't give a fuck. Cause the majority of players doesn't complain, only a vocal minority.
Lambda grinders are easy to get from zieg. Have a bit of patience and you're swimming in them.


My current weapon as Fo/Te is a 30 element +20 Bio Rias. I'm pretty sure this'll be better than the unacceptably pitiful setup I have. My Te/Hu is fully geared barring a couple weapons, so I might just switch to that and skip getting Ideal weapons entirely and run CQs exclusively for things like +2s and Merit+30%s.
I hope I'll be doing cmode mostly for the fun of it.


inb4 Lillipa UQ has a new 13* wand with Ancient Oath.
I'm not a fan of Ancient Oath. And it's utter trash for force weapons.


i read somewhere that cmode weapon pot lvl3 increase 30% damage to boss, i just cant remember where :'(
Random speculation and wishful thinking.

Anyway, I do hope the potential is good cause I am dying to get a good enough weapon to 6s with flict and mod and whatnot.

[Gama]

so like any stone shop weapon it will have a fixed element right?

or will it be random like zieg?

[Poyonche]

Hmm, okay. Thanks.


I am also hoping, and I hope this is true. Or atleast hard, because you start to know how the game is when you reach hard.

[LonelyGaruga]

:no:
Don't say something this scary.
Anyway, my point is not sega over/underestimating anyone but rather not giving us stuff easily. Ever.

I'm not a fan of Ancient Oath. And it's utter trash for force weapons.

Eh? How is it scary? From everything we've seen, it really does look like it's going to be pretty easy to get.

Ancient Oath is fine for wands, which is what Maenara specified, so...yeah. If Ultimate Lilipa really is weak to fire like I expect, there'll be a good reason to use that kind of wand for every element barring wind. Wands handle Ancient Oath pretty much better than every other weapon since they rely minimally on multiple palettes.

And Ancient Oath is fine for Force when you're matching weakness. Gravirion is the second strongest rod under those conditions. That's not trash.


so like any stone shop weapon it will have a fixed element right?

or will it be random like zieg?

Fixed at 20 light.

[Eternal255]

Funny that people even bother considering weapons against regular mobs. They go down so quick it really doesn't matter what you use.

If the cmode weapons ~look~ better than the others, then i'll pick those any day

[Flaoc]

ok who here has the stats for all the ideals?

[Z-0]

Ideal - Ares (all +10)

Sword: 1402 - 1516
Lance: 1208 - 1306
Partizan: 1143 - 1236
Daggers: 917 - 991
Double Saber: 981 - 1061
Knuckles: 1338 - 1446
Gunslash: 1076 - 1166/1108 (Ideal S-Atk Value Only)
Katana: 1187 - 1283
Dual Blade: Unknown
Rifle: Unknown
Launcher: 1373 - 1470
TMG: 1295 - 1402
Bow: 1517 - 1640
Rod: 1381 - 1493
Talis: 1166 - 1264
Wand: 1240 - 1376/1341 (Ideal T-Atk Value Only)
Jet Boots: 1288 - 1379/1393 (Ideal T-Atk Value Only)

In general, Ares is 90-100 attack stronger and also has a constant 6-10% latent, which makes them miles stronger than the Ideal set overall, except on bosses, which it's said to be stronger on.

[Goukezitsu]

Ideal - Ares (all +10)

Sword: 1402 - 1516
Lance: 1208 - 1306
Partizan: 1143 - 1236
Daggers: 917 - 991
Double Saber: 981 - 1061
Knuckles: 1338 - 1446
Gunslash: 1076 - 1166/1108 (Ideal S-Atk Value Only)
Katana: 1187 - 1283
Dual Blade: Unknown
Rifle: Unknown
Launcher: 1373 - 1470
TMG: 1295 - 1402
Bow: 1517 - 1640
Rod: 1381 - 1493
Talis: 1166 - 1264
Wand: 1240 - 1376/1341 (Ideal T-Atk Value Only)
Jet Boots: 1288 - 1379/1393 (Ideal T-Atk Value Only)

In general, Ares is 90-100 attack stronger and also has a constant 6-10% latent, which makes them miles stronger than the Ideal set overall, except on bosses, which it's said to be stronger on.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/4p8WbIH.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/1PICDAr.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/TFsQSO7.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

I'll help out cause I've done this too for my team.

Rifle: 1240 - 1341
Dual Blades: 1355 - 1465

[Achelousaurus]

Eh? How is it scary? From everything we've seen, it really does look like it's going to be pretty easy to get.

Ancient Oath is fine for wands, which is what Maenara specified, so...yeah. If Ultimate Lilipa really is weak to fire like I expect, there'll be a good reason to use that kind of wand for every element barring wind. Wands handle Ancient Oath pretty much better than every other weapon since they rely minimally on multiple palettes.

And Ancient Oath is fine for Force when you're matching weakness. Gravirion is the second strongest rod under those conditions. That's not trash.



Fixed at 20 light.
I'm coming from PSOBB and am really disappointed in the short quests in this game cause I fondly remember spending a lot fo time doing random runs and having a ton of fun but nowadays every quest is so short there is so little do it and it kinda just dies.

Anyway, wand isn't a force weapon. Casting in this game works by picking some elements and sticking to them regardless of enemy weakness. Which means Ancient Oath doesn't work. And even if, it's still 2% less than the element boost potentials.

[Z-0]

Casting in this game works by attacking the enemy weakness. If you're not doing that you are gimping yourself massively.

Ancient Oath Rod is impossible to get unless you hunt Diabo anyway. It can drop from certain enemies in Ult, but the drop rate is so low if not from Rare Diabo you might as well not bother. It's a waste of time to get because you might as well just be hunting Ares, and if you aren't attacking enemy weakness (fire in TD, mostly), the rod isn't going to do anything for you.

[kgrc199913]

hope that Ideal weapon will have good pot...

[Alma]

so no concrete info on the dmg boost value of the potential yet?
heard it was 10% here and other say 30%... :wacko:

[LonelyGaruga]

I'm coming from PSOBB and am really disappointed in the short quests in this game cause I fondly remember spending a lot fo time doing random runs and having a ton of fun but nowadays every quest is so short there is so little do it and it kinda just dies.

Anyway, wand isn't a force weapon. Casting in this game works by picking some elements and sticking to them regardless of enemy weakness. Which means Ancient Oath doesn't work. And even if, it's still 2% less than the element boost potentials.

Oh, so the complaint is that they're too short. But if they were too long then accumulating Challenge Miles would take forever...

I wasn't saying that wand was a Force weapon, but that Maenara was talking about a wand with Ancient Oath, so your reply about Ancient Oath being a terrible potential doesn't make much sense. Comes off as saying "Ancient Oath sucks on some weapons so it sucks on all weapons". Ancient Oath's usefulness on weapons that aren't wands has no bearing on its usefulness for wands, so why bring it up?

Z-0 pretty much covered tech usage. While Gravirion is the second strongest rod when matching weakness, the fact that it drops in the same exact quest as Ares Rod makes it pretty pointless to specifically hunt it.


so no concrete info on the dmg boost value of the potential yet?
heard it was 10% here and other say 30%... :wacko:

30% is completely unsourced, 10% is allegedly datamined and subject to change. So no concrete information. It's rare to have concrete information about any potential before it becomes implemented anyway.

[Achelousaurus]

Casting in this game works by attacking the enemy weakness. If you're not doing that you are gimping yourself massively.

Ancient Oath Rod is impossible to get unless you hunt Diabo anyway. It can drop from certain enemies in Ult, but the drop rate is so low if not from Rare Diabo you might as well not bother. It's a waste of time to get because you might as well just be hunting Ares, and if you aren't attacking enemy weakness (fire in TD, mostly), the rod isn't going to do anything for you.
Then I should be using ice if the enemy is weak against it, even though I got a fire or lightning build?
Wut?

Anyway, I never complained about it taking too long to get an Ideal 13*.
I just said I doubt it's super fast.

[Cyber Meteor]

Anyway, I never complained about it taking too long to get an Ideal 13*.
I just said I doubt it's super fast.

SEGA said that a skilled player could get a 13* in 1 day of playing. The question is what do they mean by "1 day", is it a full day (24 hours) or probably less (12,8,6....)?

[LonelyGaruga]

Then I should be using ice if the enemy is weak against it, even though I got a fire or lightning build?
Wut?

You should be using an ice build. Ice is actually a really good element and has been for a long time now. Especially in UQs since every enemy there resists whatever it isn't weak to.

Anyway yeah I guess you didn't say anything about the length of time, unlike a lot of people that immediately assumed Ideal weapons would take forever to get without doing any time/fact checks. Never mind that then!


SEGA said that a skilled player could get a 13* in 1 day of playing. The question is what do they mean by "1 day", is it a full day (24 hours) or probably less (12,8,6....)?

From my estimates, I would put it at 15-17 hours. If CQs take 10 minutes per run and provide 2750 points per run (the 1750 we know of and an extra 1000 from mile crystals we don't know of that may or may not exist), that's about how long it would take to get a 13*. There might actually be even more sources of Mile Points, so the time could be reduced further.

[GHNeko]

You should be using an ice build. Ice is actually a really good element and has been for a long time now. Especially in UQs since every enemy there resists whatever it isn't weak to.

I think what he's getting at is that if he's spec'd for Fire only, or Lightning only, and comes across an enemy weak to Ice; should he be expected to use Ice against that enemy even though he has Fire or Lightning Mastery 1&2 specc'd or simply stick to the element he has spec'd to 20 via masteries.

[Dnd]

I think what he's getting at is that if he's spec'd for Fire only, or Lightning only, and comes across an enemy weak to Ice; should he be expected to use Ice against that enemy even though he has Fire or Lightning Mastery 1&2 specc'd or simply stick to the element he has spec'd to 20 via masteries.

With oath, even more so. you get 20% from te's elemential weak hit (assuming Fo/Te), 14% from oath on top of that and instead of hitting for base damage or even having it resisted somewhat you get a 5~20% (even higher on some mobs) boost because they are weak to it in the first place (And you get 5~15% from having 1~6 points in the other elemential trees your not focused in anyway)

Much better then a 44% boost from both tech masterys + (possibly) an extra 12.5% from matching tech element to weapon element hitting on a resist to start with

[LonelyGaruga]

I think what he's getting at is that if he's spec'd for Fire only, or Lightning only, and comes across an enemy weak to Ice; should he be expected to use Ice against that enemy even though he has Fire or Lightning Mastery 1&2 specc'd or simply stick to the element he has spec'd to 20 via masteries.

Sometimes, yes. Mainly for a fire build though since fire is basically the most broken element and has the most utility out of all of them with its rapid charge times. Lightning's just cheap to use, which isn't all that helpful, and doesn't really get much mileage outside of lightning weak areas anyway.

When targeting an enemy's weakness, you get an extra 20-30% more damage (20% further if EWH) on average. In UQs, you lose 15% (IIRC) by targeting off-weakness. Most enemies weak to ice have a 30% modifier (only Coast mobs, Rheo Madullard, and toy darkers are 20%), so ice would actually have a higher damage multiplier than fire/lightning would in a dual mastery spec as long as Techer's involved. Even more if it's Fo/Br, but that's another thing entirely. So the main reason not to use ice here is the utility involved in the other techs. If you can kill things as or more quickly with fire than ice because of its utility/charge times/already one-shotting anyway, then sure, fire would be preferable. Otherwise, ice would be, regardless of the element you're actually specced for.

[Sandmind]

I think what he's getting at is that if he's spec'd for Fire only, or Lightning only, and comes across an enemy weak to Ice; should he be expected to use Ice against that enemy even though he has Fire or Lightning Mastery 1&2 specc'd or simply stick to the element he has spec'd to 20 via masteries.

Gerenally speaking, for elemental weakness it's 20% for dual and 30% for mono weakness. So multi tree FOTE and FOBR essantially gain an elemental mastery.

If you're a single tree FO, then I would recommend single element spec'ing as FOFI, since multi element spec'ing then to nerf itself too much (unless if running 1 ele FO and 1/2 ele TE sub).

[Macman]

Well going by pure numbers, and not counting things like elemental latents and element convert, you get the 20-30% damage bonus for hitting a weakness, and another 20% for EWH on TE's tree.

But if you just stick to your main element you get 44% (they stack) damage from your masteries. So barring high resistances like ult, the difference seems negligible.

[GHNeko]

There you have it folks.

4 reasonable posts generally saying the same thing. I think that's a new record for PSOW.

Most of the answers tho are based off of FO/BR or FO/TE so rip me as a FI/FO lmfao.

[Achelousaurus]

I think what he's getting at is that if he's spec'd for Fire only, or Lightning only, and comes across an enemy weak to Ice; should he be expected to use Ice against that enemy even though he has Fire or Lightning Mastery 1&2 specc'd or simply stick to the element he has spec'd to 20 via masteries.
Precisely.
This is the case for most people cause they don't have 3 trees (most go with one cause they are freemium only) or things like this happen often in LQs and EQs with many different enemies and there cam always be enemies weak to an element you haven't maxed.
And Ancient Oath does nothing in this case whereas direct element boost potentials still give their full boost.

The element in question was picked at random, I was just making a point.
Even if I do use the element the enemy is weak against, boost fully by my tree, Ancient Oath is 14% vs direct dmg potentials having 16%.

[LonelyGaruga]

You kinda missed my point when I said the only rod that has Ancient Oath is stronger than the element boosting potentials by a wide enough margin that it still wins despite the weaker potential. Doesn't seem like you read the replies past that, either.

All of the EQs that feature different enemy types have them all infected (if they can be infected) anyway, and LQs are, more often than not, unavailable. Element matching is usually for the best in these situations anyway.

[Macman]

So swiki has numbers up for the ideal weapon's latent. +18% damage at level 3.
Anyone wanna crunch the numbers and find out if that actually makes them better than Ares versus bosses?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

So swiki has numbers up for the ideal weapon's latent. +18% damage at level 3.
Anyone wanna crunch the numbers and find out if that actually makes them better than Ares versus bosses?

Think of it this way:

I use ketos proi with my katana, and hatou spam bosses into dust and end with a finish.

I get to have my cake and eat it too with CM shop weapons. Not much number crunching needed.

Also, there is a 100 S atk difference between ares and Cmode katana. That's nowhere near equal to the loss of 8% damage vs a boss when you're at 2600+ s atk before buffs.

Cmode shop weapons are just better against bosses, number-wise, and get to keep their damage when PB is used by setups that feed off of it like, Fo/Te, or my katana braver self. No real contest from what I see.

[Shinamori]

So, they're just welfare weapons?

[LonelyGaruga]

So swiki has numbers up for the ideal weapon's latent. +18% damage at level 3.
Anyone wanna crunch the numbers and find out if that actually makes them better than Ares versus bosses?

I did rods, talis, and wands, and yes, they are. Not by all that much though. Still the second strongest weapons otherwise though.

[Selphea]

So swiki has numbers up for the ideal weapon's latent. +18% damage at level 3.
Anyone wanna crunch the numbers and find out if that actually makes them better than Ares versus bosses?

What I wanna know is whether Sega added any weird rules for it, like whether it's considered a Race Hunter-type pot that's disabled in UQ.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

So, they're just welfare weapons?

I wouldn't call the current best boss killers for just about every weapon category sans dual blades 'welfare'; even more important than the slight damage increase on paper, I can keep the damage bonus when I use ketos proi to go full spam mode in practice as I've said earlier.

[Bellion]

I'd still stick with Ares considering Ideal are not so ideal against mini-bosses, such a shame.
Also, you can change photon colors of the weapon, but not the color of the attacks that are the default color of the Ideal weapons, gross.
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://mmoloda.com/pso2/image/54793.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Xaeris]

Looks like something a six year old would make if you gave them a bunch of construction paper.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'd still stick with Ares considering Ideal are not so ideal against mini-bosses, such a shame.
Also, you can change photon colors of the weapon, but not the color of the attacks that are the default color of the Ideal weapons, gross.
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://mmoloda.com/pso2/image/54793.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

So no extra damage vs subbosses? :(

[LonelyGaruga]

Also, you can change photon colors of the weapon, but not the color of the attacks that are the default color of the Ideal weapons, gross.

Wow. How hard could it be to make the attack graphics match color? Thanks Sega.

[AlphaBlob]

I'd still stick with Ares considering Ideal are not so ideal against mini-bosses, such a shame.
Also, you can change photon colors of the weapon, but not the color of the attacks that are the default color of the Ideal weapons, gross.
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://mmoloda.com/pso2/image/54793.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]
I hope that's not the case for sword swing... That would look horrible.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Thanks Obama.

ftfy.

[Macman]

So no extra damage vs subbosses? :(

This is my biggest concern now. If Rockbear and the like aren't counted as bosses for Ideal weapons, that's a huge peg to have the series knocked down.

[Rakurai]

I'd like to hope they weren't so dense as to make only enemies that appear as a diamond on the map count as bosses, rather then make anything that leaves a loot crystal count.

[NovaanVerdiano]

I've been told that mini bosses do not count, I can't confirm that on my own though.

[Hrith]

So these weapons are ugly, single-class and have a terrible potential... just like Ares weapons. I sure hope they're trying harder for the next batch of 13* weapons.

At least challenge mode looks fun to play.

[Gama]

the new 13* wands outdamage almost all wands, if in a rainbow settup. so i wouldnt say theyre bad per se.

i do agree that theyre not gorgeous looking, id prefer a minimalistic look on them, isntead of a omg im so detailed and spiky.

but thats why i use camos.

[Flaoc]

ok so this topic is more or less dead but my ideal katana was getting its damage bonus on subbosses. tested on wolga, rockbear, and de malmoth and the numbers i was getting were similar to when i tested on zeshrayda who is an actual boss. i never bothered testing with my rifle when i got it a few days ago but it seems good so far on sub bosses

[Poyonche]

inb4 13* Ult. Lillipa Stones have "Spirit Collector" potent

[wefwq]

inb4 13* Ult. Lillipa Stones have "Spirit Collector" potent
Actually i have this idea floating inside my head... but considering it's *13 we're talking about, worst case they'll put a better version of spirit collector.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

ok so this topic is more or less dead but my ideal katana was getting its damage bonus on subbosses. tested on wolga, rockbear, and de malmoth and the numbers i was getting were similar to when i tested on zeshrayda who is an actual boss. i never bothered testing with my rifle when i got it a few days ago but it seems good so far on sub bosses

Yeah I confirmed it and posted about it in the finds thread when this one got buried.

Ideal are hands down best against bosses, but that ~100 atk gap between ares and ideal is a bit much (since that 100 atk difference is more like 160 for striking/ranged due to 60 element or ~5% damage from that alone).

Now it's more like...

Ares: ~15% stronger mobbing than ideal with PB ready.

Ideal: ~13% stronger bossing assuming no PB ready for ares (falz, magatsu, luther).

Assuming you do have PB ready, and run into a boss with ares (TD, free fields), bossing is only ~3% weaker than ideal.

I still would take ideal katana over ares hands down, as would most class/weapon setups who rely on their ketos proi for noticeably speedier boss kills (ketos, katana combat, hatou spam for katanas), but with DB bouncer with not much use for their PB at all thanks to how photon blades + fever works, I'm still a bit torn about it.

What would you guys pick for 13* DBs and why? Would you rather a potential that doesn't work when you most need it (big EQ bosses), but lets you faceroll most trash enemies during DOs/maybe for ~half of TDs up to 15% harder, or would you rather have that 13% extra boss damage against EQ bosses like luther, and miss out on the 15% maximum extra damage on the fodder enemies (some of which can take a beating, like XH goldras)?


inb4 13* Ult. Lillipa Stones have "Spirit Collector" potent

That sounds painfully likely.

[Dugs]

I'd pick something that would make people actually use it, instead of playing Fi/Bo some more with crafted stuff.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'd pick something that would make people actually use it, instead of playing Fi/Bo some more with crafted stuff.

I meant should I pick ares, or ideal given the damage differences I outlined above?

[Ordy]

>thread bump
>damage test

Someone tested the Ideal AR damage vs a racist Haze:

http://i.imgur.com/XobFw91.jpg

First damage test on Gwanahda itself: Ideal AR obviously hits hard than its racist counterpart, nothing new there.
Second damage test on the Gwanahda bits: turns out that the bits are not coded with the "boss flag" so the Ideal potential won't trigger and the racist AR deals more damage.

I have mixed feelings about this:

Yes, that makes sense, the bits are not a boss.
No, that makes no sense, the bits are part of the boss, the potential should still trigger.
GG SEGA?


┐(。ヘ°)┌ I dunno lol

[Perfect Chaos]

That's interesting... Not like it matters much either way, so I don't particularly mind that the bits don't get the damage increase. LOL

[Selphea]

The Ideal is only 20% though, not 60%. But still, interesting thing about the pot.

[un1t27]

Only a casual makes a thread such as this one.

[LonelyGaruga]

Only a tryhard makes a post such as that one.

[milranduil]

Makes sense imo considering the enemy record in quest record considers Gwana bits separately from Gwana itself. I'm still just glad ideals work for mini-bosses . -.b

[un1t27]

Only a tryhard makes a post such as that one.

http://s0.uploads.im/szSYr.gif

[Lumpen Thingy]

Only a casual makes a thread such as this one.

Yes because lets take months to hunt for a ares weapon and hope to get a second one in the same element instead of just getting a weapon to 60% element by grinding something that does reward you.

[ArcaneTechs]

Yes because lets take months to hunt for a ares weapon and hope to get a second one in the same element instead of just getting a weapon to 60% element by grinding something that does reward you.
Why is it so hard for you to take Ziegs's Medallion skill+Tickets in what ultimately ends up you spending the same amount of time farming for Are's or Ideal? either way your still gonna end up getting what your looking for. (you should have hundreds of cubes to spend by now especially just after boost week)

Casuals cry about easy handouts like Ideal or any future trade in 13* (12*'s too) because Are's is still better (yes each wep had it's pro/con's, not getting into that tho) or that the weapon in the trade in shop is weaker than the actual enemy/boss drop.

Common sense majority of the time is that the easy to get stuff is gonna be weaker than the ones you would actually find.

Either way, you guys think Anga farming is mind numbing but it isn't any different than failing at the same parts in CM over and over if your not doing organized or IF you are organized you guys are either failing at the same part (lets say mission 9) but just can't seem to finish it or you manage to finish it periodically throughout the day.

Take your pick, farming Are's or Ideal are both mind numbing and repetitive. At least the Slave series is lessening this slightly

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Why is it so hard for you to take Ziegs's Medallion skill+Tickets in what ultimately ends up you spending the same amount of time farming for Are's or Ideal? either way your still gonna end up getting what your looking for. (you should have hundreds of cubes to spend by now especially just after boost week)

Gotta stop you there. Tell that to the people that get no ares after a thousand kills, and most likely end up with one they don't even want if one does drop (gunslash is the most dropped ares weapon this past week).

Ares is not promised. RNG promises nothing within a window of time.


Either way, you guys think Anga farming is mind numbing but it isn't any different than failing at the same parts in CM over and over if your not doing organized or IF you are organized you guys are either failing at the same part (lets say mission 9) but just can't seem to finish it or you manage to finish it periodically throughout the day.

Premade/exclusive groups=10k miles an hour. One ideal weapon every 18 runs with said group.

You can influence how fast you get ideal. You cannot with ares. There is no tangible methodology to besting this RNG in a process other than 'keep rolling the dice'.

Killing anga to not see a 13* drop hundreds of times gives you no tangible indication you're any closer to getting one next kill.

There's no comparing the pain of anga farming/leaving yourself at the mercy of the RNG gods, to actually making progress to something.

[milranduil]

Why is it so hard for you to take Ziegs's Medallion skill+Tickets in what ultimately ends up you spending the same amount of time farming for Are's or Ideal? either way your still gonna end up getting what your looking for. (you should have hundreds of cubes to spend by now especially just after boost week)

Casuals cry about easy handouts like Ideal or any future trade in 13* (12*'s too) because Are's is still better (yes each wep had it's pro/con's, not getting into that tho) or that the weapon in the trade in shop is weaker than the actual enemy/boss drop.

Common sense majority of the time is that the easy to get stuff is gonna be weaker than the ones you would actually find.

Either way, you guys think Anga farming is mind numbing but it isn't any different than failing at the same parts in CM over and over if your not doing organized or IF you are organized you guys are either failing at the same part (lets say mission 9) but just can't seem to finish it or you manage to finish it periodically throughout the day.

Take your pick, farming Are's or Ideal are both mind numbing and repetitive. At least the Slave series is lessening this slightly

1 week to 60 ideal weapon or 2 weeks to get an ares wep I don't want (while wasting cubes at the same time)... HMMM decisions.

[ArcaneTechs]

Gotta stop you there. Tell that to the people that get no ares after a thousand kills, and most likely end up with one they don't even want if one does drop (gunslash is the most dropped ares weapon this past week).

Ares is not promised. RNG promises nothing within a window of time.



Premade/exclusive groups=10k miles an hour. One ideal weapon every 18 runs with said group.

You can influence how fast you get ideal. You cannot with ares. There is no tangible methodology to besting this RNG in a process other than 'keep rolling the dice'.

Killing anga to not see a 13* drop hundreds of times gives you no tangible indication you're any closer to getting one next kill.

There's no comparing the pain of anga farming/leaving yourself at the mercy of the RNG gods, to actually making progress to something.
I really dont see how people are going almost 1k kills without seeing at least one 13* drop, either your farming outside boost or your absolutely unlucky during boost which we won't know because most people don't say. I suppose im lucky then since I have gotten a 13* GS dropped but then again the charts are still in a way wrong since it's not counting un-tekked 13*s dropping.

Either way, it's your choice on which one you feel like grinding all day, I have no issues with back to back Anga however I am sick of failing at the same parts on CM and I don't even want the 13*'s from CM either, I just wanna finish the dam thing but hey, people can pick their grind methods.

The only unlucky thing I had happen for me was getting 2 13* Swords which will never see the light of day outside my storage during my farming times. otherwise I've gotten just about what I've wanted so far. 13* GS seems okay too, novelty wise tho

1 week to 60 ideal weapon or 2 weeks to get an ares wep I don't want (while wasting cubes at the same time)... HMMM decisions.
If you don't have hundreds or maybe a few stacks of cubes from Magatsu then idk what to tell you

[Xaeris]

However many cubes you have stockpiled, waste is still waste.

[ArcaneTechs]

However many cubes you have stockpiled, waste is still waste.

not like your using them for anything good right now if you amassed a bunch before and after magatsu nerf and still amassing from sched magatsu

[Xaeris]

Maybe you aren't.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

not like your using them for anything good right now if you amassed a bunch before and after magatsu nerf and still amassing from sched magatsu

Cubes->FUN->meseta, though atmittedly it's probably not as profitable as it once was due to SH magatsu farming taking its toll. +1 grind protects lost ~66% of their value likely to that.

[Xaeris]

Shhhhh, don't tell him! Christ.

[milranduil]

If you don't have hundreds or maybe a few stacks of cubes from Magatsu then idk what to tell you

I have 2k leftover cubes after using 2-3k during the grind/affix boost, but that's irrelevant. Waste is waste when I can get a 60 ideal wep at the cost of 0 cubes AND it's guaranteed.

Let's face it, you view anga and CM as equal grinding because you don't finish CM consistently.