Who wants to do some strategic organized C-Mode?

[Lostbob117]

I have an idea for the team to. You'll have to have skype/whatever we use for voice chat.


Here's my idea. We'll have 4 groups of 3. Each group will have their captain. We'll also name the groups things like TA or something easy to say. Each member will have a code name; they'll put that on their online status. (purely for things like "P1 droping Zanba") So players can find you. Group members won't need mics though. Group Captains will require mics tho. They'll be the main ones talking. Then have someone who makes all the calls of where each squad goes after they figure out their gear and talk it over with the group captains.

There is still more to add to the idea though. This is just a rough explanation of it.

Who'd be interested? Add me on skype(Lostbob117) if you're interested. I'll make a group there.

[schnee4]

all JP pub > all english organized
why wasted time?

[Lostbob117]

all JP pub > all english organized
why wasted time?

I guess you can ask yourself that with your post.

[reaper527]

i'd be interested depending on what day/time you had in mind. i'm ship 2, but i assume that doesn't really matter since we always have the shared ship if everyone isn't from the same ship.

[JaysonL]

all JP pub > all english organized
why wasted time?

Some English organized runs have completed all 10 missions. With pretty much no JP pugs being able to do that, what you said is clearly false.
If you feel that you aren't competent enough to compete with JP pugs, then just speak for yourself. No need to lump then rest of us with you.

Anyways, the one problem I see with the previous thread is that all we are doing is organizing a PUG. The people that join are still random people but of those that visit pso-w. There was no test for competence or anything. No roles were being assigned. Everyone just picked their favorite weapon and we went with it. Pretty much what PUGs do. This thread looks like its on track for doing the same thing but with voice chat.

Anyways, if we want to do this, we should build for it. If we do, we have a good chance at getting past JP PUGs. If you look into the general challenge thread, you see people that have experience clearing it like Z-0 providing much information on it. The most helpful thing I found that he provided was in the second spoilers of this (http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3243387#post3243387) post. A detailed strategy. While the picture is dated and not complete, if we do something like it, I'd expect that it would improve our chances. Also, him and others have provided much information on M9 and M10 after that post. Enough for us to complete the rest of this chart. A few changes have been made too and we have all that information. And it isn't like we need to keep using the chart after we get all the roles down. From what I am seeing, if we know what to do, communication becomes a small part of CM as it all happens before we start the run. If we ask nicely and with all the help he has provided PSO-W with, I feel that there is a good chance he would provide us his current chart if he still uses it.

With all this said, this is a lot more work compared to simply joining a PUG. JP PUGs can consistently get to M7-M9. But consistently doesn't mean guaranteed M7-M9. 1-2 players goofing off can easily change it to a M5 run. However if we do this, we would be aiming to consistently clear and at least guarantee getting to M10. Of course, finding 12 people willing to do this would probably be the hard part. PUGs have started reaching M10 but not consistently. And I do think M10 is a big roadblock for PUGs, especially with the amount of VR we make it into M10 with. In the end, we don't know if it will pay off. JP PUGs may very well start consistently clearing CM in the near future. I believe what is happening in JP PUGs is them organizing themselves subconsciously during the run. They learn the roles with the information they accumulated and voluntarily fill in the vacancies as they go. The more roles they know, the more efficient the PUGs become. Obviously, this isn't as optimal as organizing everything beforehand which is the only advantage we have for doing an organized run.

I wouldn't mind joining if we are actually going to organize a group, but if we are just going to repeat what the last group did, we might as well join PUGs. Too be fair, the previous thread have no information available going into the runs. We had an excuse for such disorganization back then. This is no longer the case.

Finding 12 people does not equal organization.
Setting up a Skype chat does not equal organization.

[reaper527]

Anyways, the one problem I see with the previous thread is that all we are doing is organizing a PUG. The people that join are still random people but of those that visit pso-w. There was no test for competence or anything. No roles were being assigned. Everyone just picked their favorite weapon and we went with it. Pretty much what PUGs do. This thread looks like its on track for doing the same thing but with voice chat.


to be fair, there is merit to running repeatedly with the same group, because then you will get acclimated to each other's play styles, and suggestions can be made by the better players to improve the quality of the rest of the mp.

if the op was going for a single run, you'd be spot on, but assuming the op wants to keep running with the group he builds, this would be better than a purely random mp. especially when you figure that if someone really does suck and keeps dying and refuses to buy challenge dolls, they can just be booted from the group and replaced.

also, where are you running that mp's can consistently get to m7-9? on the shared ships, i find that most mp's consistently fail in m4 or m5, and reaching m7 is the exception on not the rule. (even when i'm buying a shit ton of challenge dolls and dropping them at interval areas to attempt to stop the party from failing)

[Z-0]

All good PUGs are generally locked now, because all the bad players have started invading the やりこみ blocks. You'll need to know their password to play, which you can find if you look around in the right places.

Also getting "used to each others' playstyles" is not a viable strategy for C-Mode clears. C-Mode is not about your playstyle, it's about efficiency if you want to clear.

[Keilyn]

Another thing that should be done...

Look at your Damage Numbers. If you find that you are not getting any numbers, then it means you are not hitting anything and its the same as you not existing.

I am open to whatever organized tactical runs exist in this on the Western Community.

[mctastee]

all JP pub > all english organized
why wasted time?

Sometimes I wonder why you even post.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'm down for whatever if it means M10s. Pm for player name if this will be a thing.

[Keilyn]

I would like to do this, but under several conditions:

1. I have set up one of my mumble servers for VoIP on PSO-2. I want us to communicate and its address location is:

mumble://108.61.25.67:2262/?version=1.2.8

(Server IP: 108.61.25.67
Port: 2262)

2. I want people to register their names there.......and I am looking for two who will assist in being channel moderators, since I can not be there 24/7 and I would like the room used.

3. I don't care what kind of relationships people have with me. I won't bite. I just want the room to be used for something good. I would like it to flourish. All Criteria on deciding how we accept people for challenge runs could be discussed first in the VoIP.

Just because I run the room does not make me the OpLeader to the runs themselves. So far I have been to Mission 10, but have not beat it. There are people who have more experience in Challenge, though I play daily.

4. Anyone have any other ideas....you can let me know. ^_^

love me, or hate me...
You are welcome in there.

[LonelyGaruga]

*snip

I hope everyone that reads this thread and plans to actually go through with an organized MPA carefully considers everything stated in this post, because it covers pretty much everything necessary to keep in mind to have a successful MPA, and why simply having an organized MPA is meaningless on its own.

Also, seriously, how useful is voice chat really going to be? Twelve people in the same conversation, having to learn and distinguish between the voices of eleven other people, in the middle of playing, while multiple people are in all likelihood going to be talking at once. And for what? A properly organized MPA would already have all contingencies planned out. You don't even need communication outside of interval areas if you already have an understanding of every role each player is going to play, with instructions on what to do with drops, who gets what, etc. Anything less is purely casual and unorganized play. And the whole point of this thread is to avoid that, isn't it? So the only value voice chat holds is simply for fun. Putting such a high priority on a tool that serves no purpose but to have fun is a sure sign that any MPA formed with this in mind is not really going to make it far into a CQ run, which is really no different from the CQ runs from the initial MPA attempts.

In other words, the best thing that can be done is simply to gather as many players you find to be competent and practice CQs until your MPA gets a full understanding of what to do. After that, it's just a matter of playing together consistently. It isn't to be done with a casual attitude of "communication = success", and you might as well quit before you start if you intend to do anything less than train an MPA to be on par with 100% clearing MPAs. Otherwise you may as well be running with randoms that you can talk to just as well with public chat as you can voice chat, which is about as meaningful as adorning your monitor with 4 leaf clovers.

[Keilyn]

I hope everyone that reads this thread and plans to actually go through with an organized MPA carefully considers everything stated in this post, because it covers pretty much everything necessary to keep in mind to have a successful MPA, and why simply having an organized MPA is meaningless on its own.

Also, seriously, how useful is voice chat really going to be? Twelve people in the same conversation, having to learn and distinguish between the voices of eleven other people, in the middle of playing, while multiple people are in all likelihood going to be talking at once. And for what? A properly organized MPA would already have all contingencies planned out. You don't even need communication outside of interval areas if you already have an understanding of every role each player is going to play, with instructions on what to do with drops, who gets what, etc. Anything less is purely casual and unorganized play. And the whole point of this thread is to avoid that, isn't it? So the only value voice chat holds is simply for fun. Putting such a high priority on a tool that serves no purpose but to have fun is a sure sign that any MPA formed with this in mind is not really going to make it far into a CQ run, which is really no different from the CQ runs from the initial MPA attempts.

In other words, the best thing that can be done is simply to gather as many players you find to be competent and practice CQs until your MPA gets a full understanding of what to do. After that, it's just a matter of playing together consistently. It isn't to be done with a casual attitude of "communication = success", and you might as well quit before you start if you intend to do anything less than train an MPA to be on par with 100% clearing MPAs. Otherwise you may as well be running with randoms that you can talk to just as well with public chat as you can voice chat, which is about as meaningful as adorning your monitor with 4 leaf clovers.

You are right that one does not need VoIP to win in challenge, considering that a lot of the random groups I am part of now make it to M9 or M10 consistently. The lowest I saw today was M7.

Here is my explanation of communication vs gaming in a nut-shell.

CHAT = We can chat OR play, but not do both at the same time!
VoIP = We can talk AND play at the same time!

When we talk and play at the same time, I can do neat things like say "Carmilla, Behind You!" while simultaneously moving and providing you some much needed help.

When we chat and play at the same time, I can do neat things like typing "Carmilla, Behind You!" and wind up sharing a grave together since you were flanked, and I was killed while typing.

Example 2:

When we talk, I can say "Carmilla, Gel Wuffs!" when I see they are right behind you, while charging the cannon to destroy them"

When we chat I cant type and charge the cannon at the same time. Of course I can type "Carmilla, Gel Wuffs" to find that I was too slow and a Gel Wuff killed me, and killed you as well.

....I shall now return to adorning my monitor with four-leaf clovers out of feeling that they might actually bring me some luck. Also, I like the color green...and genetic mutations...and crappy little superstitions, and black cats too...

P.S: VoIP has become a standard in cooperative and competitive gaming. PSO-2 is the only online game I play where I do not frequently enter a VoIP. Instead I am bombarded by an endless amount of skype-chat rooms, autowords, and symbol arts which only confuse the individual further...

[LonelyGaruga]

When we talk and play at the same time, I can do neat things like say "Carmilla, Behind You!" while simultaneously moving and providing you some much needed help.

When we chat and play at the same time, I can do neat things like typing "Carmilla, Behind You!" and wind up sharing a grave together since you were flanked, and I was killed while typing.

Example 2:

When we talk, I can say "Carmilla, Gel Wuffs!" when I see they are right behind you, while charging the cannon to destroy them"

When we chat I cant type and charge the cannon at the same time. Of course I can type "Carmilla, Gel Wuffs" to find that I was too slow and a Gel Wuff killed me, and killed you as well.


A properly organized MPA would already have all contingencies planned out. You don't even need communication outside of interval areas if you already have an understanding of every role each player is going to play, with instructions on what to do with drops, who gets what, etc.

In other words, every mob spawn group would be handled efficiently with no possibility of being "flanked" (which requires a level of incompetence that I find sorely insulting to even see as an example, as it demonstrates the low level of play you're at, to believe it's a reasonable example), and Gel Wulffs would be planned out appropriately.

Not that there aren't a dozen things wrong with this situation.

-In the time it takes for you to give a warning, an enemy/Gel Wulff could, and probably would, hit me, rendering the warning entirely moot.
-I would still need to process the information after being given it. Even accounting for thinking being faster than speaking, it would take the first two words to be able to reach a logical jump.
-Enemies and Gel Wulffs are easy to see in the first place. If I somehow failed to observe them, I'm probably half asleep, so you talking would be background noise.
-Your warning could easily be drowned out by other people talking at the same time, since there are 10 other people in the conversation. I could count if I was the talking type, but I'd sooner type.
-Ignoring the presence of other people, there's still BGM and SEs. Muting the former is an option, muting the latter would be less useful than having voice.

Etc etc. This isn't the kind of thing you warn people about, this is the kind of thing you need people to be able to handle on their own in the first place. If they can't even do that, your MPA isn't going far.

In other words, git gud noob.