Female Thor? ? ? baby

[Noblewine]

The heck happened? Anyone have any ideas. =/

[Palle]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/imglib/0/0/1/Thor-Goddess-of-Thunder-Character-Art-5e388.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Looks pretty badass, tbh.

[mctastee]

I love a woman that can kick my ass.

[Vintasticvin]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/imglib/0/0/1/Thor-Goddess-of-Thunder-Character-Art-5e388.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Looks pretty badass, tbh.

Reminds me of that one blonde character Big Olaf has cept shes wearing full armor

[BIG OLAF]

Marvel's buckling to the obnoxious 'Social Justice' crowd, that's all.

[PhotonDrop]

Thor is still Thor. It's his name, not a title. He's got a badass axe and a metal arm for now.

Thor himself was recently rendered unworthy of wielding Mjolnir thanks to something an insane Nick Fury whispered in his ear. Nobody knows what was said and at this point it doesn't matter because it's going to be a huge let down.

The person wielding the hammer is some random chick. They're not even bothering to say who it is, the whole story is built around one part "WHO IS IT????" and one part "Look at how progressive we are!"

This is not the first time someone else was "Thor", nor is it the first time it was a woman. In time things will go back to normal. Just ignore it and let the retards at Marvel get it out of their system. Pissing off fans is literally their game plan because somehow it actually generates more sales than when they're complacent.

In the words of Paul Anka, "Just don't look! Just don't look!"


Marvel's buckling to the obnoxious 'Social Justice' crowd, that's all.

Well now I wouldn't say "buckling". This sort of thing is par for the course with them.

[Anduril]

My general beef with stuff like this isn't the introduction of a new female or minority character, it's more the making them a legacy character while the original is still around rather than giving them their own unique identity; I get that it's a way to get big sales numbers and give automatic recognition to the character, but it also takes away from the new character since there is the expectation that things will go back to the status quo after a year or two.

[Shadowpawn]

My general beef with stuff like this isn't the introduction of a new female or minority character, it's more the making them a legacy character while the original is still around rather than giving them their own unique identity; I get that it's a way to get big sales numbers and give automatic recognition to the character, but it also takes away from the new character since there is the expectation that things will go back to the status quo after a year or two.

Heh, a villian expresses almost the same viewpoint. Only, of course, to make him sounds like a jerk he also bashes feminists in the process:

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--qXsnWfHx--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/jfsgdkezua7a54hbjdg8.png

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--6V-F7Zgh--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/p9dzgxorrpce2jfiidgp.png

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ww8-EpFV--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/dubaff9k7ye37bsav8pm.png

[Palle]

Pissing off fans is literally their game plan because somehow it actually generates more sales than when they're complacent.

So did we get verification that sales of Thor are up 25% since the change?

I haven't read a comic book since Killing Joke.

[BIG OLAF]

Heh, a villian expresses almost the same viewpoint. Only, of course, to make him sounds like a jerk he also bashes feminists in the process:
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--qXsnWfHx--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/jfsgdkezua7a54hbjdg8.png

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--6V-F7Zgh--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/p9dzgxorrpce2jfiidgp.png

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ww8-EpFV--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/dubaff9k7ye37bsav8pm.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

See, this is what I'm talking about. They're infecting things like comics with their ideological agendas, and then they have the gall and audacity to put in scenes like this for the express purpose of taunting their "opposition" (read: actual intelligent people).

Since it's becoming more and more obvious how poisonous their "movement" is, they have to really step up their game by trying to advertise how 'great' they are with lines like the last panel includes. People who 'bash' Feminists aren't "jerks," they're just people who are paying attention.

Unless, of course, they're just slinging insults; that's no good. It's best to use actual facts and figures on Feminists; that's what makes them really angry.

[PhotonDrop]

So did we get verification that sales of Thor are up 25% since the change?

I haven't read a comic book since Killing Joke.

To be quite honest, I don't even know. All I have to go by is the claim Tom Brevoort made over Twitter.

[Noblewine]

Since were talking about comics did you hear about the contraversey with the new Batman comic? DC Comics caved in during #Changethecover issue. :/ author said something like this would happen and I am sad to see my hobby and others being ruined by these morons.

[Palle]

Since were talking about comics did you hear about the contraversey with the new Batman comic? Marvel caved in during #Changethecover issue. :/

That was DC homie and it was dumb.

[BIG OLAF]

Yeah, see, that's what I'm talking about. Any little thing they don't like now, they just cry "offended!" and it gets changed. Companies, namely comic publishers and video game developers, are caving left and right to these pathetic children. It's really scary, in all honesty.

[Noblewine]

My general beef with stuff like this isn't the introduction of a new female or minority character, it's more the making them a legacy character while the original is still around rather than giving them their own unique identity; I get that it's a way to get big sales numbers and give automatic recognition to the character, but it also takes away from the new character since there is the expectation that things will go back to the status quo after a year or two.

I heard the same thing. They are just pandering on the negative to make a quick buck.


See, this is what I'm talking about. They're infecting things like comic.

I find their excuse this is happening because they want "equality" laughable. Whats happening is they are oppressing people.

I guess its time to add DC to my boycott list. Ignoring the problem didnt make it go away they went crying to their rich friends which caused the blockbot program to be created.
Btw thanks Palle for the correction.

[Zorafim]

Olaf, I have a movement (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBoT9mmtTO8) that may interest you.

[BIG OLAF]

Oh, the "Meninist" thing? Yeah, that shit is hilarious.

The funniest part is how pissed Feminists get about it, even though it's been admitted to be a complete parody dozens of times. They still think it's real. It's amazing.

[Sayara]

Do they really fear? Their word?
Or do they just want to make sure they dont wanna lose money.

Toxic or nontoxic outcry of boycott sure ruffles some feathers in the business world.

[Nitro Vordex]

Only slightly toned? She should be super bulky. Because that would be amazing.

[Zorafim]

That's pretty bulky for a woman. And a man.

[Shadowpawn]

The person wielding the hammer is some random chick. They're not even bothering to say who it is, the whole story is built around one part "WHO IS IT????" and one part "Look at how progressive we are!"
.

I bet it's Power Girl. I bet you 1 Million dollars. *holds pinky up to mouth.*

[Noblewine]

This is a stunt they are using to get girls into reading their comics and also using the negativity to increase sales. Who says anything in this world is male dominated or a "Boys only club" is a fallacy and not true and never was. =/


That's pretty bulky for a woman. And a man.

I thought everyone loved bulky muscular woman. She-hulk or Wonder woman anyone? ;D

[Palle]

I bet it's Power Girl. I bet you 1 Million dollars. *holds pinky up to mouth.*

Nope. We figured it out.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.herogohome.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/BabysittingWorship.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Zorafim]

I thought everyone loved bulky muscular woman. She-hulk or Wonder woman anyone? ;D

Hey, don't start assuming I don't like the muscles. I'm just saying, she's way bigger than me.


Nope. We figured it out.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.herogohome.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/BabysittingWorship.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Crime is fucked

[SurrealBrain]

All I know is, they put a GamerGate joke in one issue.

And with that, goes whatever little chance I had of reading the Thor comics.

[BIG OLAF]

Like I said: taunting.

They spent so long "fighting the establishment" that they, themselves, have become the 'establishment.' Don't believe me? Try speaking out against this insane "social justice movement" somewhere, anywhere. You'll be torn apart by people who were too scared to speak up for the same reason, and are now saving face so they aren't the ones in the cross-hairs.

So, now they attempt to gloat and taunt; to relish in their "victory," all while under the facade of "equality."

[Noblewine]

Like I said: taunting.

They spent so long "fighting the establishment" that they, themselves, have become the 'establishment.' Don't believe me? Try speaking out against this insane "social justice movement" somewhere, anywhere. You'll be torn apart by people who were too scared to speak up for the same reason, and are now saving face so they aren't the ones in the cross-hairs.

So, now they attempt to gloat and taunt; to relish in their "victory," all while under the facade of "equality."

Olaf speaks the truth. I'm for ending corruption in the indie video games and video game journalism but its sad because of the methods people will use to try to solve the problem on both sides. How this all started and became a bigger issue due to poorly handling the issue lead to one side silencing anyone using facts/honesty. I'm sad that nepotism (favoritism) is the reason this started and money and power is being used as an excuse to slander decent people.

I hate how the morons that are rich and have some kinda title/position are the ones responsible for this whole incident. Well on a good note one person that's been involved this movement is about to get kicked outta her sjw circle after talking to a pro-gamer gater so karma is finally popping its ugly head. =D


Hey, don't start assuming I don't like the muscles. I'm just saying, she's way bigger than me.

I'm teasing Zora. That's all.. Who doesn't like muscular woman? =0

[Shadowpawn]

Let's not turn this into a gamergate thing guys. The last thing FKL needs is for tumblr to be all up in our business.

[Noblewine]

That's true sorry.

[Outrider]

This thread is hilarious.

It's also probably worth pointing out a few things:

1.) Women have been reading comics for years. This is nothing new. They have always been there and have always been a significant portion of the audience.

2.) What is new is that the big two publishers (read: Marvel and DC) are realizing that their top books aren't acknowledging this significant portion of the available audience. They are correcting for that with both new books and adjustments to existing books.

3.) They are making so much bank off finally dedicating resources to this underutilized market. (It doesn't hurt that the new content is also performing pretty well with the existing demos. I'm always a few months behind on comics but Captain Marvel and the new Batgirl are excellent.)

4.) Though to be fair, everybody knows that the Odinson will be Thor again before too long.

5.) Points 1-3 are also pretty relevant to the gaming industry as well.

6.) It will never not be funny seeing dudes complain about how women are keeping them down or ruining their toys. I mean, it will never not be sad either, but nobody said something can't be funny and sad at the same time.

[PhotonDrop]

Captain Marvel is a terrible book that has been selling far below the threshold that would have had any other title cancelled. Carol Danvers is quite literally the worst possible character Marvel could push as a head-liner. Hell, she's hardly the star of her own book, it's practically her cat, the "flerkin" alien. This is hardly surprising considering her history. The most interesting Carol has ever been was when she served as Rogue's back-up psyche.

But I'm sure the woman that fell in love with an inter-dimensional prince that impregnated her with himself so that he could enter her dimension is a shining inspiration for little Suzy, right? It's not like Monica Rambeau(whom also served as Captain Marvel) is doing anything.

The funniest part about Carol's promotion is that as Ms.Marvel she at least had the bragging rights of being better off than whoever is Captain Marvel proper. Now that Kamala Khan has taken the Ms.Marvel mantle she's doing the same to Carol. All this bullshit because Marvel wants their own "Wonder Woman" so badly.

[BIG OLAF]

]It will never not be funny seeing dudes complain about how women are keeping them down or ruining their toys. I mean, it will never not be sad either, but nobody said something can't be funny and sad at the same time.

The only funny and sad bit is that people like you still think that's all this is about. I mean, oof.

I'll just point out how insultingly bad that obvious propaganda writing is in those Thor panels that were linked earlier; how self-serving, masturbatory, and cringe-worthy it is, and everyone, "Social Justice" supporter or not, should be embarrassed by it. Its ridiculously heavy-handed fourth-wall-breaking shots at critics are shameful and juvenile, no matter what the intent may be.

..and it'll only get worse! Yowza.

[Outrider]

Captain Marvel is a terrible book that has been selling far below the threshold that would have had any other title cancelled. Carol Danvers is quite literally the worst possible character Marvel could push as a head-liner. Hell, she's hardly the star of her own book, it's practically her cat, the "flerkin" alien. This is hardly surprising considering her history. The most interesting Carol has ever been was when she served as Rogue's back-up psyche.

But I'm sure the woman that fell in love with an inter-dimensional prince that impregnated her with himself so that he could enter her dimension is a shining inspiration for little Suzy, right? It's not like Monica Rambeau(whom also served as Captain Marvel) is doing anything.

The funniest part about Carol's promotion is that as Ms.Marvel she at least had the bragging rights of being better off than whoever is Captain Marvel proper. Now that Kamala Khan has taken the Ms.Marvel mantle she's doing the same to Carol. All this bullshit because Marvel wants their own "Wonder Woman" so badly.

Eh? Last I heard Captain Marvel's been selling well when you factor in digital. Not as well as Ms. Marvel from what I've heard but still very well.

But yeah, the stuff from the old Avengers books is hilariously terrible. Didn't another writer bring her back just to chastise the previous story? Maybe Chris Claremonte? I've never read the full issue but I've seen the panels and they were pretty on-point.

Not sure why Carol upsets you so much, but I do like Monica Rambeau from back in Nextwave. I don't have too much history with the character outside of that book, but Nextwave is pretty much a perfect comic so she's got my vote.


The only funny and sad bit is that people like you still think that's all this is about. I mean, oof.

I'll just point out how insultingly bad that obvious propaganda writing is in those Thor panels that were linked earlier; how self-serving, masturbatory, and cringe-worthy it is, and everyone, "Social Justice" supporter or not, should be embarrassed by it. Its ridiculously heavy-handed fourth-wall-breaking shots at critics are shameful and juvenile, no matter what the intent may be.

..and it'll only get worse! Yowza.

I mean, the ridiculous dialog from the Absorbing Man is based on actual complaints people were lobbing against the book and they responded with as much seriousness as those comments deserved. That is hilarious.

I'm just saying: if your concern is that you can't speak out against "social justice" (a coin some people use as an insult, but... is a terrible attempt at an insult?) or that women are somehow oppressing men (which could only be true if you ignored the countless studies showing the systemic oppression) then you should probably take a break from the internet.

Maybe read some comics? Mark Waid & Paolo Rivera/Marcos Martin Daredevil run is excellent and so far I've been enjoying Ryan North and Erica Henderson's Squirrel Girl (one of the few comics I've been buying new because Ryan North).

[PhotonDrop]

I've laid out everything rather plainly there. She is a disaster of a character that should not be anywhere near the spotlight. Are we honestly supposed to ignore her train-wreck history and believe she's some kind of icon?

Maybe it would be okay if she, you know, had some kind of character development. There was none of that. She instantly goes from being just another flying brick on the Avengers to "Carol Corps ww@ :^) GRRL Power amirite?" It's disgraceful.


Erica Henderson's Squirrel Girl (one of the few comics I've been buying new because Ryan North).

Oh good God. I am so sorry.

[BIG OLAF]

"Systemic oppression."

Amazing what Logical Blindspots will do to a seemingly otherwise rational human.

also, women don't oppress men, and men don't oppress women; this is 2015. The only oppression is Rich/Wealthy > Middle-class/Poor

[Outrider]

I've laid out everything rather plainly there. She is a disaster of a character that should not be anywhere near the spotlight. Are we honestly supposed to ignore her train-wreck history and believe she's some kind of icon?

Maybe it would be okay if she, you know, had some kind of character development. There was none of that. She instantly goes from being just another flying brick on the Avengers to "Carol Corps ww@ :^) GRRL Power amirite?" It's disgraceful.

I dunno, I like the "former alcoholic, legacy character coming into her own" element that they've been playing with over the last few years. Of course, the legacy character and the "passing of the mantle" thing was a big reason I was so into DC back in the 90s, so it might just cater more to my tastes than your own.

But c'mon, are you really suggesting that "ignoring stupid comics history" isn't par for the course? God, I don't think I'd still be reading superhero comics if they didn't aggressively trim stupid stories from a character's history. It's all fiction; it's meant to be edited.


Oh good God. I am so sorry.

!?

I am not sure how anybody could dislike Ryan North OR Erica Henderson. Do you... do you just not like big butts? You don't have to lie! Those other brothers won't (and can't!) deny.



"Systemic oppression."

Amazing what Logical Blindspots will do to a seemingly otherwise rational human.

also, women don't oppress men, and men don't oppress women; this is 2015. The only oppression is Rich/Wealthy > Middle-class/Poor

I mean, that is the term that describes when a group of people is oppressed by a system. I am not sure what else you are looking for?

Or are things like "women don't have control of their reproductive rights in many states" and "women are drastically more at risk of sexual assault by men than the vice-versa" and "women earn less money than men on average" not signs of system oppression?

I'll leave you with this helpful tip, though: in general, it's a big red flag to anybody you're talking to when you claim that one kind of problem can't exist because a parallel problem exists. (The key point is here is that it's a "parallel" problem, not something that is inherently contradictory or intrinsically tied together. So, you can dismiss an argument that dogs are better than cats if it's a proven fact that cats are better than dogs, because it's obvious that there's no way both can be true.)

It's one of the first things most people go to when they can't defend their stance and it lets the other person know that they'd rather change the subject than try to show some level of proof in defense of their argument. It also makes people assume you don't actually care about the cause you deferred to, since you're trying to use it as a diversionary tactic.

So like, if you genuinely think that economic equality is the biggest problem facing our society (which is a defensible position with some factual basis to support it), then you would instead be saying that "oppression of women is less important than economic oppression" or something along those lines. It shows that you actually care about the issue you're trying to bring up and it gets people to actually take you seriously.

Of course, if the honest answer is simply that you don't care about women's rights because it doesn't affect you, I think most people would appreciate the honesty instead of falling back on dishonest misdirection.

[Edson Drake]

Are you a leftist Outrider? Serious question, just curious.

[PhotonDrop]

I dunno, I like the "former alcoholic, legacy character coming into her own" element that they've been playing with over the last few years. Of course, the legacy character and the "passing of the mantle" thing was a big reason I was so into DC back in the 90s, so it might just cater more to my tastes than your own.

But c'mon, are you really suggesting that "ignoring stupid comics history" isn't par for the course? God, I don't think I'd still be reading superhero comics if they didn't aggressively trim stupid stories from a character's history. It's all fiction; it's meant to be edited.

What comics have you been reading? Eating Ben&Jerry's with Spider-Woman is not "coming in to her own". This all sparked from a single issue where she changed her outfit for some reason, the press questioning who she is, and Captain America saying,"Hey, you should totally be Captain Marvel now." Followed by Carol debating it with herself in her head. Then suddenly she's an inspiration to women everywhere when nobody gave a flying fuck before.

The use of retcons is a sign of poor integrity. I can't believe you actually just claimed it's a good thing. It's like I'm in bizarro world. Retcons are the tool of the lazy writer that can't be bothered to read previous works. Surely someone like yourself that enjoys legacy characters can see what an insult retcons and reboots are. Every damn time DC wants to change things up The Flash goes back to being Barry Allen again. All of Wally's achievements wiped away. Bart and Wally's kids no longer exist. Hell, the old Wally doesn't even exist. This is a horrible practice that needs to stop.


!?

I am not sure how anybody could dislike Ryan North OR Erica Henderson.

There's no accounting for taste. I just don't see how you can stand looking at that art. Yuck.

[Shadowpawn]

Do you... do you just not like big butts? You don't have to lie! Those other brothers won't (and can't!) deny..

Are you telling me...that if a girl walks in (with an itty, bitty waist), and a round big in your face...that you get...?

[Sayara]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAzjmvoVIAA67-A.jpg:large
Can we notwith this discussion in FKL of all places?

[BIG OLAF]

Or are things like "women don't have control of their reproductive rights in many states" and "women are drastically more at risk of sexual assault by men than the vice-versa" and "women earn less money than men on average" not signs of system oppression?

If you seriously believe the first and third things (I'm conceding the second one, because it's at least grounded in fact), especially the oft-debunked "wage gap" myth, you're not even close to on the same page, and it's not worth talking to you about it. Not like I thought it was, anyway; you've made your stubborn and misinformed stance on these things abundantly clear in the past. I was just kinda bored and saw this topic pop up in ol' FKL.

I'll leave you with a tip: Study information from both sides of a debate, and absorb information from a myriad of sources from all different walks and beliefs. Don't just pick a "team" and rally behind whatever it is they say. Life's a much more pleasant learning experience that way, and you won't always be so stuffy and super-serious about inane garbage.

Anyway, back to FKL things. I'm feeling like 'massaging a knee', y'know?

Why doesn't Female Thor dress like this?

[SPOILER-BOX]http://nerdreactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Female-Thor.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Sayara]

Well man thor has a pretty nice breastplate armor thing going on, why not let the female have it too.
Despite
well
boob plates.. but anyway

[Edson Drake]

ohhhh yummy.

Wait she doesn't?

[Sayara]

ohhhh yummy.

Wait she doesn't?

http://celebwild.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Thor-Girl.jpg

[Edson Drake]

It was sarcasm, just pointing it out Sayara.

Every comic convention I've been has a female Thor dressed like the pic Olaf posted. I wonder why...

hint: because of female "empowerment"

[BIG OLAF]

Well man thor has a pretty nice breastplate armor thing going on, why not let the female have it too.
Despite
well
boob plates.. but anyway

Well it's either that or they get squished! I'd wager to guess that not many ladies want a horizontal mammogram every time they suit up to fight some shoddy fanfic villains.

[Sayara]

I dunno, if i had to fight some shoddy fanfic villians I'd rather keep my whole torso safe as well than just run around ina metalic bra. But what do I know.

[BIG OLAF]

Every superhero should just run around in an Iron Man-style mecha suit. It kinda makes sense. Hides your identity, and there's no debates about how heroes should dress.

[Shadowpawn]

Why doesn't Female Thor dress like this?

[SPOILER-BOX]http://nerdreactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Female-Thor.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]


That's terrible armor. It would have like -10 in stats.

[Edson Drake]

+20 Charisma though

[Nitro Vordex]

That's terrible armor. It would have like -10 in stats.
You clearly haven't played video games, as that's endgame armor. Less it covers, the stronger it is.

[Shadowpawn]

You clearly haven't played video games, as that's endgame armor. Less it covers, the stronger it is.

Ain't that the truth.

[Nitro Vordex]

Bonus points if the weapon is part of the set, and looks completely unwieldy.

[Outrider]

What comics have you been reading? Eating Ben&Jerry's with Spider-Woman is not "coming in to her own". This all sparked from a single issue where she changed her outfit for some reason, the press questioning who she is, and Captain America saying,"Hey, you should totally be Captain Marvel now." Followed by Carol debating it with herself in her head. Then suddenly she's an inspiration to women everywhere when nobody gave a flying fuck before.

The use of retcons is a sign of poor integrity. I can't believe you actually just claimed it's a good thing. It's like I'm in bizarro world. Retcons are the tool of the lazy writer that can't be bothered to read previous works. Surely someone like yourself that enjoys legacy characters can see what an insult retcons and reboots are. Every damn time DC wants to change things up The Flash goes back to being Barry Allen again. All of Wally's achievements wiped away. Bart and Wally's kids no longer exist. Hell, the old Wally doesn't even exist. This is a horrible practice that needs to stop.

I read the first volume of the Captain Marvel reboot and then a few random issues from the recent run. Cap's struggle to be a leader and standing up as a hero in her own right seems to be a running theme, but maybe that's only in the issues I read?

Also, I'm not saying all retcons are good. (I mean, I clearly didn't say that and I'm pretty sure you're aware of that.) I'm saying that retcons that get rid of stupid ideas are good:

- Ignoring early Batman stories in which he straight up murders dudes? Good.
- Bringing back Barry Allen and wiping away Wally West? Bad. (So bad.)
- Mark Waid & Leinel Yu's Birthright series, which introduced a new Superman origin? Great!
- The story in which it's revealed that Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn slept together? Bad!
- Wiping away that story so it never happened? Good.
- Wiping away that story via the awful, terrible, no-good, very bad erasure of the Peter Parker/Mary Jane relationship? Something good came out of it but ultimately it was super bad.

A retcon isn't inherently good or bad. It's simply a writing tool. A lazy writer using a retcon will often lead to it being terrible, but if it's used well, it can have great results.

So, as I was saying: removing some absurd and offensive plot in which Ms. Marvel is brainwashed into sleeping with an alien and then giving birth to that same alien, who then immediately grows to be an adult and takes her away against her will? Yeah, I would chalk that up as good.



There's no accounting for taste. I just don't see how you can stand looking at that art. Yuck.

Aw well. I enjoy it.
http://36.media.tumblr.com/797b5e80ada591a0480d24e2c009d688/tumblr_nhttbcBdw71sqep2mo1_500.png

Snipped for Sayara's benefit:
[spoiler-box]

If you seriously believe the first and third things (I'm conceding the second one, because it's at least grounded in fact), especially the oft-debunked "wage gap" myth, you're not even close to on the same page, and it's not worth talking to you about it. Not like I thought it was, anyway; you've made your stubborn and misinformed stance on these things abundantly clear in the past. I was just kinda bored and saw this topic pop up in ol' FKL.

Uh, the first thing? There are so many examples: Virginia has a law that says a woman can't get an abortion unless they review an ultrasound of the fetus (despite the fact that there's no medical reason for this).(Link) (http://www.nbc29.com/story/27988216/va-senate-panel-upholds-mandated-ultra-sounds-prior-to-abortions) Underage pregnant women in Alabama can't decide to have an abortion of their own will because the state can assign a lawyer to protect the fetus' interests.(Link) (http://data.rhrealitycheck.org/law/alabama-lawyers-for-fetuses-law-hb-494/) Texas is just messed up in a bunch of ways when it comes to women's reproductive rights. (Link) (http://www.reproductiverights.org/press-room/fifth-circuit-greenlights-texas-law-which-will-immediately-shutter-all-but-eight-abortion)

Did I not describe it right? I figured "women not having control of their reproductive rights" was a pretty easy way to summarize these kinds of issues.

For the wage gap: that has been proven to exist pretty consistently:
http://blog.dol.gov/2014/11/12/closing-the-pay-gap-takes-practices/
http://www.iwpr.org/initiatives/pay-equity-and-discrimination
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/11/18/3593232/gender-wage-gap-mbas/
http://www.businessinsider.com/gender-wage-gap-per-profession-2015-3
http://www.bls.gov/cps/cpswom2012.pdf

The biggest argument against is usually claiming that women simply make life choices that prevent them from earning as much money, but it's been pretty well-established that even when a woman has equal experience & skill and is at the same level, they will often earn less. Even in the best scenario, that argument would merely shrink the wage gap, not eliminate it. Quite frankly, the only reason you should think it doesn't exist is if you don't understand how statistics work.



I'll leave you with a tip: Study information from both sides of a debate, and absorb information from a myriad of sources from all different walks and beliefs. Don't just pick a "team" and rally behind whatever it is they say. Life's a much more pleasant learning experience that way, and you won't always be so stuffy and super-serious about inane garbage.


That's very zen of you. I try to read any relevant sides for an argument like this, but I mean, I'm sure there's stuff I've missed. Plus, it's not like you can argue against cold-hard numbers. You've mentioned before how dedicated you are to logic, so it's obvious you must agree on that. Heck, to deny statistically-significant studies and in-depth research would be downright illogical.

But anyway, I appreciate the tip. Maybe there is a side to this debate that I've missed? I've read a lot of studies arguing that the wage gap is smaller than some reports indicate it to be. I've also read plenty of opinion pieces that argue the gap doesn't exist, but I much prefer to see real data on something like this. Still, it's a great reminder not to keep blinders on when digging into a subject.

So, uh... I'm assuming you've read all the relevant government reports & bipartisan studies regarding women's inequality? I mean, you wouldn't suggest that I haven't read both sides without doing that yourself, right? If somebody did that they would look incredibly silly.

[/spoiler-box]


Bonus points if the weapon is part of the set, and looks completely unwieldy.

I think that only counts if the weapon is twice as large as the person wielding it OR if it looks like the weapon is super fragile and will break if you look at it funny.

[Sayara]

I think that only counts if the weapon is twice as large as the person wielding it OR if it looks like the weapon is super fragile and will break if you look at it funny.
so kinda like a... giant syringe right?
[spoiler-box]http://i.minus.com/ibvWEFfCLmf1H2.jpg[/spoiler-box]
Right??

[Nitro Vordex]

Also vaguely phallic or suggestive in any way makes it worth a lot more.

[Outrider]

so kinda like a... giant syringe right?
[spoiler-box]http://i.minus.com/ibvWEFfCLmf1H2.jpg[/spoiler-box]
Right??

That actually falls into "small objects that have been turned into massive objects" rule. That makes it into an extra-powerful weapon. Based on the four or five episodes I've seen, I think that's basically the entire premise of Kill La Kill.



Also vaguely phallic or suggestive in any way makes it worth a lot more.

I usually think of the weapons as being phallic and the costumes as being suggestive, but I just imagined the opposite in my head and now all I can think of is swords with little bikinis hanging from them and battle armor with absurd codpieces.

[PhotonDrop]

I read the first volume of the Captain Marvel reboot and then a few random issues from the recent run. Cap's struggle to be a leader and standing up as a hero in her own right seems to be a running theme, but maybe that's only in the issues I read?

It's not a reboot. Her past still happened.

This is what I'm talking about, any growth is coming after the fact, after all the fanfare and hype. DC didn't just decide,"Hey guys, Lex Luthor is a hero now! He's even on the Justice League!" Readers were introduced to the concept of a heroic Luthor through Forever Evil, THEN they brought out the confetti and streamers.

This is like editorial deciding Black Manta is going to be Aquaman's best friend forever starting immediately. No build-up, we're just supposed to accept that. Anybody that's actually familiar with the character knows this is bullshit. There is no reason to care, yet people follow the piper's tune anyway.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v56/Robo47/PhotonDrop/wwbeaton.jpg


A retcon isn't inherently good or bad.

We'll agree to disagree.

[Outrider]

It's not a reboot. Her past still happened.

Was referring to the creative reboot when DeConnick took over, not any reboot of the fiction. Still: my bad. I could've been clearer on that.

Though, to be clear: the stuff with Marcus doesn't exist in current continuity, as per Marvel Editorial. So, like... if that's what you're referring to in regards to her past, then yeah, it didn't happen as far as the current Marvel universe is concerned.


This is what I'm talking about, any growth is coming after the fact, after all the fanfare and hype. DC didn't just decide,"Hey guys, Lex Luthor is a hero now! He's even on the Justice League!" Readers were introduced to the concept of a heroic Luthor through Forever Evil, THEN they brought out the confetti and streamers.

Oh jeez. If I had known that you were a fan of Forever Evil and the current Justice League, we could've gotten to "we'll agree to disagree" SUPER quickly.

[PhotonDrop]

What? How can you- But you can somehow tolera- Oh fuck it. Nuances are amusing.

The point is there was build up, unlike with Carol. So you either shove a terrible character into a role she doesn't belong or you strip away the qualities that make her terrible and are left with a character that's Carol Danvers in name only.

Alcoholism aside, she's got the personality of cardboard. Take into account her origin(air force pilot, getting super powers from an alien she found) and she's practically rule 63 Hal Jordan. Is Hal Jordan what people consider a strong, independent woman?

Honestly I can imagine the people that continue to read Captain Marvel do not care for any kind of merit. For all I know they're more interested in taking a selfie whilst holding the latest issue and sipping from a cup labeled "male tears". But I digress. At least we got Kamala Khan out of this train wreck.

[Noblewine]

Wow this topic exploded. So are these comics bad or should I try to give them a chance?

[PhotonDrop]

Oh don't act innocent, you knew it was a controversial subject.

If there's one thing the on-going debate proves it's that everyone has their own tastes. Only you can decide for yourself if you like something or not.

As far as Lady Thor goes, it's too early to make a judgement call on the overall quality. I disagree with how heavy-handed they've been with the grrl power and the way they've been treating Odin like a senile old fool. Writers have been portraying Odin poorly for a while, so it's not totally new, but this run takes it to a whole new level.

[Outrider]

Wow this topic exploded. So are these comics bad or should I try to give them a chance?

Saga's pretty great. It's not superheroes, but I've been consistently impressed with it.

You should read Sex Criminals. That's what you should read. You should not google Sex Criminals, though.

Atomic Robo's also a favorite and it's now being re-released for freeeeeee as a webcomic: http://www.atomic-robo.com

As far as superhero comics are concerned, I'm always at least six months behind (basically whenever they have Comixology sales) but the Scott Snyder/Greg Capullo Batman run has been pretty great. They recently finished up a new origin story called Zero Year which I've heard good things about but I have not read it at all. The Court of Owls - their first story that launched with the New 52 reboot - was fun, though.

Amazing Spider-Man has been... well, not great, but always consistently "pretty okay" for the past few years. There has been good and there has been bad. Superior Spider-Man sounded like the stupidest thing ever but it was actually a fun story. I've read bits and pieces since the relaunch of Amazing Spider-Man so I can't really vouch for the recent Spider-Verse event (except that it probably looks gorgeous since it has Olivier Coipel on a few issues).

I also recently read some of the recent Guardians of the Galaxy and All-New X-Men. They're both pretty good and probably show Bendis at his finest (snarky team books, basically), but they're ALSO super involved in what seems like endless crossover events. I think they just started a new one, in fact. I'd actually recommend just reading the first few issues and bailing as soon as the crossovers start (unless they've both gotten really good recently and I just didn't know it.)

I gotta say, I'm actually trying to cut back on my comics spending and am interested in checking out Marvel Unlimited. It's a $10/month service that gives you access to a massive backlog of comics, including most of their major releases that are six-months-old or older. I wasn't crazy about the user experience when I tried it out but it seems okay. I'm definitely spending at least $10/month on old Marvel comics on Comixology, so it'll probably be worth it.

[Noblewine]

Oh don't act innocent, you knew it was a controversial subject.

If there's one thing the on-going debate proves it's that everyone has their own tastes. Only you can decide for yourself if you like something or not.

As far as Lady Thor goes, it's too early to make a judgement call on the overall quality. I disagree with how heavy-handed they've been with the grrl power and the way they've been treating Odin like a senile old fool. Writers have been portraying Odin poorly for a while, so it's not totally new, but this run takes it to a whole new level.

Ok sorry. I was just sad with the stuff that's been happening lately. =/


Saga's pretty great. It's not superheroes, but I've been consistently impressed with it.

You should read Sex Criminals. That's what you should read. You should not google Sex Criminals, though.

Atomic Robo's also a favorite and it's now being re-released for freeeeeee as a webcomic: http://www.atomic-robo.com

As far as superhero comics are concerned, I'm always at least six months behind (basically whenever they have Comixology sales) but the Scott Snyder/Greg Capullo Batman run has been pretty great. They recently finished up a new origin story called Zero Year which I've heard good things about but I have not read it at all. The Court of Owls - their first story that launched with the New 52 reboot - was fun, though.

Amazing Spider-Man has been... well, not great, but always consistently "pretty okay" for the past few years. There has been good and there has been bad. Superior Spider-Man sounded like the stupidest thing ever but it was actually a fun story. I've read bits and pieces since the relaunch of Amazing Spider-Man so I can't really vouch for the recent Spider-Verse event (except that it probably looks gorgeous since it has Olivier Coipel on a few issues).

I also recently read some of the recent Guardians of the Galaxy and All-New X-Men. They're both pretty good and probably show Bendis at his finest (snarky team books, basically), but they're ALSO super involved in what seems like endless crossover events. I think they just started a new one, in fact. I'd actually recommend just reading the first few issues and bailing as soon as the crossovers start (unless they've both gotten really good recently and I just didn't know it.)

I gotta say, I'm actually trying to cut back on my comics spending and am interested in checking out Marvel Unlimited. It's a $10/month service that gives you access to a massive backlog of comics, including most of their major releases that are six-months-old or older. I wasn't crazy about the user experience when I tried it out but it seems okay. I'm definitely spending at least $10/month on old Marvel comics on Comixology, so it'll probably be worth it.

Welp I might check up on them.