Teaching new players

[Kinujou]

I was wondering lately. I see posts talking about how people cant play, and I see situations where players would need help....


Would It be possible to have a mentor/student system going with the community?

Those who are experienced teaching new players and players who are learning. We could have people who would specialize in mentoring in subjects, like classes and builds, as well as those to help teach EQs (not dominate for said students, teach.)

I feel if we can at least help those who are willing to learn, we can see about improving the community as a whole.

[nathanielzor]

those who are willing to learn
This right here pretty much sums up the difference between the good and bad players.

[qoxolg]

While playing Destiny we called these people 'someone who will never learn'. Sometimes you had someone in your raid group who was simply to dumb/stupid to get better, even after explaining a tons of times via the voice chat.

[couponfork]

I think this would be great as someone who hasn't played very long and is always willing to learn.

I'm sure there are some others it would benefit too.

[Sp-24]

I was wondering lately. I see posts talking about how people cant play, and I see situations where players would need help....


Would It be possible to have a mentor/student system going with the community?

Those who are experienced teaching new players and players who are learning. We could have people who would specialize in mentoring in subjects, like classes and builds, as well as those to help teach EQs (not dominate for said students, teach.)

I feel if we can at least help those who are willing to learn, we can see about improving the community as a whole.
Well, we have that guy who seems really eager to breed some players. Maybe you two could team up and we'll see how well does it go.

[LonelyGaruga]

I feel if we can at least help those who are willing to learn, we can see about improving the community as a whole.

This is pretty much what's already going on though. We have class threads, guides for every important EQ and quest, and tons of discussion. Anyone who's willing to learn already has enough resources to do so. The problem is people who aren't willing to learn. Those are usually the scum of society everywhere and are comfortable with that status, so there isn't anything that can be done about it.

[couponfork]

This is pretty much what's already going on though. We have class threads, guides for every important EQ and quest, and tons of discussion. Anyone who's willing to learn already has enough resources to do so. The problem is people who aren't willing to learn. Those are usually the scum of society everywhere and are comfortable with that status, so there isn't anything that can be done about it.

He is trying to provide in game assistance is what I gathered. Sure people can search for an hour to find an answer but why not have people readily available to answer them in game?

[EspeonageTieler]

He is trying to provide in game assistance is what I gathered. Sure people can search for an hour to find an answer but why not have people readily available to answer them in game?

just saying the quick question thread on this site gets people answers pretty damn fast unless its at some weird hour

[random idiot]

get people to stop speaking english in lobby, that'll improve the "community" 10 fold

[AlphaBlob]

get people to stop speaking english in lobby, that'll improve the "community" 10 fold
Your name.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

get people to stop speaking english in lobby, that'll improve the "community" 10 fold

Not really... or are you trying to live up to that name?

[ArcaneTechs]

teach people to read because asking why the servers down every Tuesday still is beyond stupid at this point. teach them to think too so they can comprehend Class thread discussions

also how to TD1/2/3/AIS

[Korazenn]

Well, I'll be the first to say it: it's not EVE Online.

I don't really think it's a matter of getting into Phantasy Star Online 2 as it is working your way around it. EVE's issue was that it was a problem in both regards whereas in PSO2 you're thrown into the gameplay from the outset.

I would say it's up to the newbies to decide. Some like teaming up from the outset with a group of likeminded individuals. There are others that just play the game a couple days or weeks, decide it's not for them, and then leave just as quickly as they came. There are others who prefer to learn things at their own pace. It's whatever really makes them comfortable, you know?

The major issue people now starting the game tend to have is that they just try to do everything at once, and it really isn't good to play the game like that from the outset (especially on your first character) because then the game becomes a chore rather than an experience.

For me, I'd say the best thing to teach newbies first is how to:

1) Translate the game through Tweaker if they haven't already and need it.
2) Let them know that Ship 02 is the unofficial English Ship that harbors the largest English community within the game, meaning that it'd be easier to find people to party with from there.
3) Access the translated Tutorials through use of the Settings > Information window (they are all translated for the most part...they just require some extra steps to reach because SEGA is...well...SEGA and decided to use image files in most of the tutorials instead of text).
And, arguably the most important one: 4) Let newbies know the best way to get on their two feet is to follow Arks Road through the Beginner and Starter Lessons.

This is an important part because I can't tell you how many times someone has come to me and said in-game that they have no idea where to start. Don't mind that it's literally right in front of you where your next objective is, I can tell why people would get overwhelmed because the game can be technical from the outset if you let it.

There are a lot of guides that exist already. Yes, some do get way too technical or one-sided at times for people worried about numbers, but there's a bevy of resources and material there for newbies if they want to look into it. :)

[Korazenn]

Your name.

Not really... or are you trying to live up to that name?

random idiot is clearly just baiting, so please don't respond to him anymore. The idiot is not worth our time when we've got deets to discuss. lol

[ArcaneTechs]

random idiot is clearly just baiting, so please don't respond to him anymore.

sat in block 01 for about 15mins, just watching ppl trying to get others to be pricks and troll/spam jp players just for fun, followed by racial slurs being flung around. either these guys are still in highschool (middle school) or literally they are what ppl despise the most. this isnt a one time thing either, i see it a lot when i login and i happen to be in there

havent been in block 20 for awhile but block 01 is essentially the same as 20

[random idiot]

Not really... or are you trying to live up to that name?

there's a reason why jp avoid b20 even now that it's totally dead, and the intelligence of people who speak english in open lobby is just...


The idiot is not worth our time when we've got deets to discuss. lol

Location: Ship 02 (B-001)

thanks for proving my point

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

there's a reason why jp avoid b20 even now that it's totally dead, and the intelligence of people who speak english in open lobby is just...

-Anyone who wants to play the game avoids those blocks

-Anyone who cares about privacy doesn't speak in nearby

-Japanese players do it too

-Former residents of B20/current residents of B1 =/= the whole community.

[Korazenn]

This is why there's a rule in the forums here that specifies not to reply to bait.

Maininblue puts it case-in-point as to what people should do if they have an issue with B001, and I'd like to add to what he had to say:


-Anyone who wants to play the game avoids those blocks

You can play the game in Block 001, but don't expect to get good MPAs like you would in other populated parts of the ship at times for EQs.


-Anyone who cares about privacy doesn't speak in nearby

I stay on Block 001 because it is Team Crimson's block and where all of my friends inside of said team play as well. It makes joining parties a lot easier to be on the same block as other people within the same team and lock your MPA.

Rarely, do I speak in Nearby in the lobby. Unless there is actual intelligent conversation to be had, I'm often in Party/Team/Whisper. Other than that, I go afk in the lobby at times to go take a short break.


-Japanese players do it too

Yup.


-Former residents of B20/current residents of B1 =/= the whole community.

Current residents of B1 aren't like a good number of people you see at the Gate Area of the B1 Lobby either.

There's always going to be an outburst of hate on the largest populated area of any part of the English community when it comes to PSO because it generally works the same way in each game and version of the game that there would just be a lot of people who sit there in the lobby and are very argumentative. Once again, it's all to be expected in an online game.

You simply avoid it and go on. If something gets annoying to you, like constant /toge or /ci spam, then you blacklist the individual and continue on your merry way. There's a reason that option exists in this game.

I think it's stupid to avoid an area just because you associate it with a type of person and lump everyone else under that same bus (if it's because you prefer partying, once again, that's understandable as parties and MPAs tend to be finnicky on B1 compared to areas with higher concentrations of JP players, but it's like that on the Shared Ship as well). Applying that same type of mentality where everyone is like that one or two people spamming in the lobby is what sparked segregation in real life. But this thread is massively derailed now. People need to stay on topic and stop focusing on the flame bait, or just move on and forget it ever happened.

[AlphaBlob]

B20 (Now B01) is a social block, if you're anti-social or want to play serious, don't go on there, it's common sense... Stop whining about it "ruining the game".

[random idiot]

But this thread is massively derailed now.

mostly due to your long-winded and pointless posts.


B20 (Now B01) is a social block, if you're anti-social or want to play serious, don't go on there, it's common sense... Stop whining about it "ruining the game".

the beginner blocks are where people new to the game are more likely to hang out, which includes both jp and en players. seeing everything bad about "b20" on one of the first blocks you log on to doesn't help either community.

i still stand by what i originally said, discouraging this will improve the community. as a whole.

[Keilyn]

Audiovisual training is what goes the farthest in teaching almost anything one-to-one as a support training to most individuals. That is if they are willing to learn.

[Kondibon]

I like this idea, It's a shame I can't help. While it's true there are guides and question threads and stuff, reading and theory crafting only gets you so far. Giving people a place to practice and learn hands on would be a good way to get otherwise good players curious about content they might have been too scared to try before. I'm sure a lot of people (my self included) get turned away by the constant "this mpa sucks" threads and don't want to be the one letting everyone down. Practicing in a controlled environment where they know people explicitly won't be expecting them to know what they're doing (and would explain what they're doing wrong) would be a great way to ease them into it.

[Chrysheight]

This is actually what I do with my friends that I get into the game. Some learn, others don't. But it's also a difference between those that are willing and those that aren't

[K.O. Kazjivo]

Some teams offer this kind of training. If you poke around you can find some.

[Kondibon]

Some teams offer this kind of training. If you poke around you can find some.I meant to suggest this, but since you brought it up, I think the problem is that people have to poke around in the first place. Yes, being proactive is important when you want to learn, but if you don't know what you're looking for it's easy to find the wrong thing or misunderstand things, which is a problem I've seen a lot with people asking questions have.

I think having a list specifically for teams or players willing to help people with this kind of thing would be useful, the problem is a lot of that stuff gets thrown into the player matchup subforum that barely anyone frequents because it's so out of the way. It needs to be more visible.

[TaigaUC]

This right here pretty much sums up the difference between the good and bad players.

This.

The other problem I see often, particularly in the West, is that people won't look things up.
They don't actively try to improve, because it means admitting they're deficient in some way.
Everybody likes to feel like they're omnipotent and infallible. It makes them feel secure and confident.
Learning means admitting they aren't the best in every way. They don't like that.

If they do find something they need answers on, they usually only ask others.
They seem to lack the ability to research for themselves, or have no idea where to start.
Going by the number of times I've had to look things up for so many other people...
I get the impression that most people really don't know how to use search engines.
I've heard there are even services for looking simple things up. I think that says a lot.

There are also people who avoid asking others, for fear of ridicule or abuse.
Society has an increasing obsession with perfection. Weakness and failure seem to no longer be tolerated.
Nobody remembers that they were all once kids without any knowledge.
Critical thinking, disagreement and discussion seem to be increasingly prohibited.
It's getting ridiculously difficult to function on a daily basis without doing anything that someone will perceive as "toxic", "offensive" or "harassing".

We're living in an age of fragile glass hearts. Everyone wants to believe that they're "special" and must not be criticized.
I've seen students and teachers afraid to give negative feedback to female students, out of fear that they'd burst into tears.
Instead, they were showered with unbridled praise. How can people realize their mistakes and shortcomings if they're only ever praised?
I see this happen all the time on the internet as well. Skilled people are ignored, whilst the not-so-skilled are coddled, encouraged and worshipped
Those people often become egomaniacal sociopaths who will use all kinds of dirty tactics to silence any kind of criticism or opposition.

All of these are factors that contribute to why it's difficult to teach new players, and why there are so many people with poor skills nowadays.
We can put the information out there and give advice, but it's ultimately down to the individual on whether they are open to absorbing new information.

[Kondibon]

There are also people who avoid asking others for fear of ridicule or abuse.
Society has an increasing obsession with perfection. Weakness and failure seem to no longer be tolerated.
Nobody remembers that they were all once kids without any knowledge.I wish people would bring this up more often because it's important.
On that note though.



We're not allowed to say anything that anyone might disagree with, or it's deemed "toxic", "offensive" and "harassment",
We're living in an age of fragile glass hearts.There is still a limit. I've never really had a problem with the stuff you say outside of what I consider some pretty harsh generalizations given the demographic of the forums, but a lot of people can be really dickish about the way they say stuff. Being polite is important on both sides. That's not to say that there aren't people who can't take constructive criticism well, just that there's also people who don't know how to give criticism with what you said before in mind.

[Freshellent]

I'm sure this will entice the usual 'baddie' call-out session, but I feel it's important to mention.

There is a strange 50/50 on this series. Either it's played very casually, or extremely 'elitist'. I have friends on both sides, one of them notably I consider to be an absolutely fantastic player, but is miles and miles of progress ahead of me, both in gear levels and in the quality of his play.

The important thing for me to bring up, next to this point is that it's somewhat difficult for newcomers to approach this game without experiencing extreme criticism and a whole lot of negativity. Lucky for me, I can pretend I know what I'm doing from time to time and when I don't- I just ask questions and prepare my anus for the pain.

It's not uncommon to see someone too scared to speak up. It's also pretty often that people don't ever come to the forums either, so they don't have a lot of resources to pull from aside from the 'git gud' that gets thrown around.

Still, we're really fortunate in this community. We have some great people, who love to help and like to listen. It's just hard to find them in the sea of negativity and 'high bar' that's been set when it comes to players.

[Keilyn]

I'm sure this will entice the usual 'baddie' call-out session, but I feel it's important to mention.

There is a strange 50/50 on this series. Either it's played very casually, or extremely 'elitist'. I have friends on both sides, one of them notably I consider to be an absolutely fantastic player, but is miles and miles of progress ahead of me, both in gear levels and in the quality of his play.

The important thing for me to bring up, next to this point is that it's somewhat difficult for newcomers to approach this game without experiencing extreme criticism and a whole lot of negativity. Lucky for me, I can pretend I know what I'm doing from time to time and when I don't- I just ask questions and prepare my anus for the pain.

It's not uncommon to see someone too scared to speak up. It's also pretty often that people don't ever come to the forums either, so they don't have a lot of resources to pull from aside from the 'git gud' that gets thrown around.

Still, we're really fortunate in this community. We have some great people, who love to help and like to listen. It's just hard to find them in the sea of negativity and 'high bar' that's been set when it comes to players.

Its actually called "might makes right" and a form of oppression and repression. A few builds become popular and are good to play with, and up to that point everything is good. However, then comes the idea that ANYONE NOT PLAYING THAT BUILD MUST SUCK.

In my experience, stating biases early on immunizes you from egoist mentality. It forces egoists to actually properly refute your content. However, this also makes them look bad since your biases had already been stated.

[Selphea]

I think people do actively search but when they search for information, they don't look for communities, they look for the information itself, so it has to be published in a way that's easy to find and read.

The average class thread is like 200 pages with information that could be outdated or full of random Q&A that might have been answered before in the very same thread just a few pages ago. That makes it hard to sieve through.

When a guide is actually out there and easy to find, people do go there.

[ArcaneTechs]

are the class threads even updated on the first post lately? a lot of new info and things to take into consideration are buried deep in posts either in between or sorta toward the end of the thread instead of the first post. maybe thats where people stop reading since i mean, who wants to read 200+ pages?

and Taiga, your post just couldnt be more spot on

[Kondibon]

are the class threads even updated on the first post lately? a lot of new info and things to take into consideration are buried deep in posts either in between or sorta toward the end of the thread instead of the first post. maybe thats where people stop reading since i mean, who wants to read 200+ pages?

This is very true, especially for the stickied build thread. The last time Unlucky posted was on some random joke thread.

[Shinamori]

I think the main problem is that while b1/b20 doesn't represent the community as a whole, they have the loud voice. It's what people look at and go: "Hey, these English plays are rude, loud and obnoxious! All English players must be like this!" The world is full of closed-minded people.

[JaysonL]

Saying that most western players don't look up information for games is only true if you are speaking about PSO2. There are many other games where they don't have the same problem as PSO2. I think it is mainly due to difficulty of accessing relevant PSO2 information. Most guides I see are only kept updated for a week or 2 after the related content is released.

Just compare information on challenge mode. The easy to access guide located in "guides and walk-through" sub forum has nothing you actually need as it only covers M1-5. The thread with actual helpful information is the 90 pages long discussion thread with everything scattered all over it. I honestly do not expect or even recommend any western players to actually look up the information for challenge mode on PSO-w. Your best bet is the JP wiki with google translate and we all know how many people will go do that. The "guides and walk-through" sub forum is a giant mess and probably turns a good number of people away from it before it even helps them.

Also, the quick question thread is the bane of our growth of better players. Most of the intermediate or higher level questions are ignored as no one can answer them at the time and when you create a thread about it, sure you get an answer but also get directed to the quick question thread. Not the greatest feeling I'd assume. Not to mention the answers you get in that thread vary wildly in terms of correctness. The purpose of that thread has become the thread players go ask questions they should have never needed to ask in the first place. There is no FAQs for beginners or beginners guide. The quick questions thread replaced it in a very round about way that is much much more inefficient. So with this, western players already start steps behind where they were suppose be.

I knew of a mmo where there has been no English release (at the time) and the wiki of choice was the English one for even JP/KR players. Where as this game doesn't even really have a English wiki. Cirnopedia isn't a wiki but if it didn't randomly update, it would suffice and this wouldn't be too much of an issue. For most people, Cirnopedia is good enough. But it doesn't help the situation we are in. The site portion(non forum) of PSO-W would be a great place to build a PSO2 database and guides. I don't know the exact state of it but it seems like its dead. It is really a shame.

I have played PSO2 for about 1.5 years. Since I started, I already saw the English community having the "crab in a barrel" mentality. No one wants to help each other and prevents others from getting better. This has slowly changed but is still very real in our community.

Communication is another big thing. Talking in public chat is okay. The percent of JP players that will report a person for simply speaking English in public chat is very very low. I'd also assume that the chances of Sega doing anything about it to be even lower. I actually don't know why people refrain from speaking because there is no reason to do so. Being stupid in public chat isn't okay but that another issue. Letting new players know that public chat is safe to use is a good start. I might just be confusing this for just speaking up in general. Not too sure.

Also, it could just be that there is so much content in the game. Becoming a good player overall is not easy. A lot of "skill" isn't transferable even within the game. I once hopped on twitch to see PSO2 streams. I see this player, clearing TAs in 2-3 mins, Quad dashing and such. Pretty much everything I hoped to be at one point in time. Then I watched him do CM, and he was pretty much the guy that ends the runs M4-5. I was able to confidently say that I am a better player then him, at least for challenge mode. Then again, quad dashing could just be macros and TAs is just knowing what to do and having the gear which isn't too hard to get. Knowing this, we need many dedicated guides organized in a way where it is easily accessible. It should not need a search function and you should be able to navigate to the guide you want with minimal browsing. The collection of guides ideally should not be located in a forum.

[Kondibon]

[SPOILER-BOX]Saying that most western players don't look up information for games is only true if you are speaking about PSO2. There are many other games where they don't have the same problem as PSO2. I think it is mainly due to difficulty of accessing relevant PSO2 information. Most guides I see are only kept updated for a week or 2 after the related content is released.

Just compare information on challenge mode. The easy to access guide located in "guides and walk-through" sub forum has nothing you actually need as it only covers M1-5. The thread with actual helpful information is the 90 pages long discussion thread with everything scattered all over it. I honestly do not expect or even recommend any western players to actually look up the information for challenge mode on PSO-w. Your best bet is the JP wiki with google translate and we all know how many people will go do that. The "guides and walk-through" sub forum is a giant mess and probably turns a good number of people away from it before it even helps them.

Also, the quick question thread is the bane of our growth of better players. Most of the intermediate or higher level questions are ignored as no one can answer them at the time and when you create a thread about it, sure you get an answer but also get directed to the quick question thread. Not the greatest feeling I'd assume. Not to mention the answers you get in that thread vary wildly in terms of correctness. The purpose of that thread has become the thread players go ask questions they should have never needed to ask in the first place. There is no FAQs for beginners or beginners guide. The quick questions thread replaced it in a very round about way that is much much more inefficient. So with this, western players already start steps behind where they were suppose be.

I knew of a mmo where there has been no English release (at the time) and the wiki of choice was the English one for even JP/KR players. Where as this game doesn't even really have a English wiki. Cirnopedia isn't a wiki but if it didn't randomly update, it would suffice and this wouldn't be too much of an issue. For most people, Cirnopedia is good enough. But it doesn't help the situation we are in. The site portion(non forum) of PSO-W would be a great place to build a PSO2 database and guides. I don't know the exact state of it but it seems like its dead. It is really a shame.

I have played PSO2 for about 1.5 years. Since I started, I already saw the English community having the "crab in a barrel" mentality. No one wants to help each other and prevents others from getting better. This has slowly changed but is still very real in our community.

Communication is another big thing. Talking in public chat is okay. The percent of JP players that will report a person for simply speaking English in public chat is very very low. I'd also assume that the chances of Sega doing anything about it to be even lower. I actually don't know why people refrain from speaking because there is no reason to do so. Being stupid in public chat isn't okay but that another issue. Letting new players know that public chat is safe to use is a good start. I might just be confusing this for just speaking up in general. Not too sure.

Also, it could just be that there is so much content in the game. Becoming a good player overall is not easy. A lot of "skill" isn't transferable even within the game. I once hopped on twitch to see PSO2 streams. I see this player, clearing TAs in 2-3 mins, Quad dashing and such. Pretty much everything I hoped to be at one point in time. Then I watched him do CM, and he was pretty much the guy that ends the runs M4-5. I was able to confidently say that I am a better player then him, at least for challenge mode. Then again, quad dashing could just be macros and TAs is just knowing what to do and having the gear which isn't too hard to get. Knowing this, we need many dedicated guides organized in a way where it is easily accessible. It should not need a search function and you should be able to navigate to the guide you want with minimal browsing. The collection of guides ideally should not be located in a forum.[/SPOILER-BOX]
http://i.imgur.com/tptlsLH.png

I think there was the Arkive but it didn't take off (Because people don't like Lostbob? I dunno. :/ ) Then people got into this whole "you can just google translate the JP wiki" thing, so no one has bothered trying something like that again. Cirnopedia is more of a database than a wiki and doesn't have any of the detailed information wikis usually have, and that's ignoring how sparse the updates are. So yes I agree. Saying the information is "there" and all they have to do is want to learn is like giving someone a garage full of car parts with the instructions from older models scrawled in random parts of the room and expecting them to know how to figure out how to build it.

EDIT: Oh and don't forget that most of the western players aren't even on PSO-W let alone regulars. We're a really small part of the community when you take into account 4-chan, reddit, and people who are just playing because their friend suggested they play.

[Shadowth117]

I think there was the Arkive but it didn't take off (Because people don't like Lostbob? I dunno. :/ )

Arkive was and is NOT editable by others as I recall at any point. It might have been a bit different in the end if it was. PSUPedia was a very nice site to have around, but for whatever reason the maker(s) of Arkive disagreed with its concept from what I could tell.

[Kinujou]

After taking the time to read the posts (sorry I've been away, work got me!) I'm thinking what about having hands-on teaching as stated before (the original idea) while showing where to look if one would need to do so, thus effectively "teaching a man to fish"?


(I mean it isn't different from my original idea but...I guess it's better to clarify it.)

For teachers I wouldn't say they have to be static in their position nor forced to do nothing but teach. Rather we would have volunteers that take the time to do so.

As for the classes, we can take some spare EQs on the plan to each. Especially TD1/2/3 and Magatsu.

And as for the community here: It's good that this community is smaller. We can start with small and grow from there, see if things work out. At least thats how I feel.

[Requiem Aeternam]

I'm not a new player but even I could use some help with things in this game. Affixing, attribute grinding and crafting being the big ones. Tried reading guides but I still don't understand it. There are also a few bosses I struggle to deal with in Very Hard and higher which is really frustrating (Banthers are the one I struggle with the most, at least after the second one appears).

Could really use some help with TD3 as well. Played it 4 times but only succeeded at it once. Never faced Magatsu so can't comment on that.

[Azure Falcon]

Giving people a place to practice and learn hands on would be a good way to get otherwise good players curious about content they might have been too scared to try before. I'm sure a lot of people (my self included) get turned away by the constant "this mpa sucks" threads and don't want to be the one letting everyone down. Practicing in a controlled environment where they know people explicitly won't be expecting them to know what they're doing (and would explain what they're doing wrong) would be a great way to ease them into it.

I completely agree, the constant negative attitude and lack of tolerance towards anything less than optimum performance in quests is incredibly off-putting, even for people who have been playing for a while. Like I have over 700 hours in the game and 2 classes capped, but I've never done Ultimate or Challenge and likely never will, because of the concern that until I learn the ins and outs I'm going to be a burden on the team and hated for it.

Some people learn quicker by practicing rather than reading. I mean the Magatsu guide makes him sound ridiculously complicated and that getting hit in any QT means you are letting your team down, yet in reality he's a pushover that boils down to smacking whatever red point has a WB and dodging a few lasers. There are, of course, those who have no interest in learning, but there is also nowhere to actually learn for those who want to.

[jiasu73]

I completely agree, the constant negative attitude and lack of tolerance towards anything less than optimum performance in quests is incredibly off-putting, even for people who have been playing for a while. Like I have over 700 hours in the game and 2 classes capped, but I've never done Ultimate or Challenge and likely never will, because of the concern that until I learn the ins and outs I'm going to be a burden on the team and hated for it.

Some people learn quicker by practicing rather than reading. I mean the Magatsu guide makes him sound ridiculously complicated and that getting hit in any QT means you are letting your team down, yet in reality he's a pushover that boils down to smacking whatever red point has a WB and dodging a few lasers. There are, of course, those who have no interest in learning, but there is also nowhere to actually learn for those who want to.

idk about ulti but for challenge at least i recommend giving it a try since it's pretty fun. Most non-organized pugs won't be able to clear anyway so don't feel to bad going in without knowing anything! Just learn as you play. They got those easy going blocks too.

bit off topic but how come eng community gatherings like PSOw doesn't do some type of recruitment for people who want to practice/ clear CM ( or w/e other EM/ run that would be good for recruitment)? Think it would be cool if there was some type of practice recruiting here. I noticed now and even back then people always complain about randoms and stuff too. Would be nice if there was an easier way to gather players with similar goals cuz i find it much harder to gather groups like that in eng community compared to jp for pso2.

[Edson Drake]

I'm not a new player but even I could use some help with things in this game. Affixing, attribute grinding and crafting being the big ones. Tried reading guides but I still don't understand it. There are also a few bosses I struggle to deal with in Very Hard and higher which is really frustrating (Banthers are the one I struggle with the most, at least after the second one appears).

Could really use some help with TD3 as well. Played it 4 times but only succeeded at it once. Never faced Magatsu so can't comment on that.

I can help you out(ID same as forum name) if we happen to play at the same time I'll give you hints and many other stuff too(except Taco I hate those).
There's plenty of guides and stuff around here for research, but for some, it's easier seeing them in action(for me both are effective).

On-topic, we need to seriously spread the word as I still see people without affixes on weapons/units or lvI affixes and even grindless.

I refuse to believe people do this on purpose, and it is very cheap/easy to get at least 3 lvIII affixes and a Soul. If people on my party are like that, occasionally I'll mention politely that their equipment need an upgrade and ask if they know about affixing/grinding.

However, this can backfire and people will call you elitist(even leaving the game!), which I think is quite jarring, as my stuff is mostly 4 affixes with some 6 slot equips. But I guess as mentioned, some people don't/won't learn.

[GHNeko]

The legit criticism of PSOW's jubbled information and inaccessibility gives me warm fuzzies for the right reasons.

PSOW is not even a suggestion for my teammates and friends when they ask for information about the game.

It's come to the point where they simply come to me for information and I simply just look it up for them because its more efficent then having them sort through a non-english wiki (swiki) if Cirnopedia isnt enough.

I've made it a point to pretty much teach everyone what I know for sure from my head because there are no reliable guides that are easily accessible, up-to-date, and simplistic enough so that newbies can easily digest.

I'd make guides myself, but I'm inherently not focused enough to put the required man hours into something like that and it's just easier to recite the same things over and over from memory.

If its not Cirnopedia or Swiki, then it's me.

If not me, then I look for them because asking them to come up here and look for relavent and up-to-date info is almost as hard as fitting a horse through a needle.

It's just in general a crapshoot.

This is not even taking community attitude into account.


Also, I'd like to vouch for the players who talk as if speaking English in all chat is some sort of taboo. Just a few days ago, I was chillin in shop, tekking some shit, and then all of a sudden a japanese player just randomly starts saying "hello!" in english at no one specific.

After a few repeats, i entertain the guy and response, and we have small talk for a couple of minutes.

Granted this could be considered anecdotal, but I'd argue its not considering how frequently I come across japanese players who can speak some semblence of english and actively engage me when I do speak english.

Japanese players who dont want to play with us FILITHY GAIJINS will either have their Room Team/Friend only, or kick you upon entering without a word, and that happens far less often then not. You could even argue that it's well noted within the japanese community that Ship 2 has a high foreigner count and meeting up with non-japanese players is to be expected.

So many people here need to take a chill pill and realize that in order to tackle the issue with players "not wanting to learn"; a welcoming, forgiving, and friendly community is an absolute requirement, coupled with forum organization and staff that keeps order and tidiness.

This is what's going to allow and encourage new players and low skill players to be mallable enough to be shaped in a way that we deem acceptable. Sometimes its not just that players dont want to learn, but the lesson that needs to be taught isnt given to them in a way that lets them learn.

Not to say to cater to each player completely, but more could be done.

I say this as a competitive gamer who frequents forums for other games that are entirely community focused (FGC / Smash).

[Kinujou]

I'm considering starting off with a simple class on Friday. Either on affixing 101 or basic combat (basics are important!)

Does anyone want to help?

[Miles064]

Tbh this site makes me feel like I am terrible. I was so happy that I could solo kitties and zesh as hunter, but you guys make it seem like that isn't much of anything. Doing XH I feel I do no damage and I'm one of those en players this site hates so much. I don't get to play with other en players much being on ship 10.

I will say I have learned more from you guys then anywhere else. I would feel bad if I tried to play with any of you though.

[GHNeko]

Tbh this site makes me feel like I am terrible. I was so happy that I could solo kitties and zesh as hunter, but you guys make it seem like that isn't much of anything. Doing XH I feel I do no damage and I'm one of those en players this site hates so much. I don't get to play with other en players much being on ship 10.

I will say I have learned more from you guys then anywhere else. I would feel bad if I tried to play with any of you though.

Ever consider making a new character on another ship?

Play there and learn there on a more English-friendly ship and that might help you improve overall.

[Miles064]

Ever consider making a new character on another ship?

Play there and learn there on a more English-friendly ship and that might help you improve overall.

I have 3 already. Dont ever use the other 2 though. Got 1000+ hours into my main while the other 2 have less then 150ish. Is the number of free characters still 2? I would love to join ship 2.

[GHNeko]

If you made an account before ep2, then 3 free characters. else its 2.

If you can afford, move your lesser used characters to Ship 2 lol.

[LonelyGaruga]

Tbh this site makes me feel like I am terrible. I was so happy that I could solo kitties and zesh as hunter, but you guys make it seem like that isn't much of anything. Doing XH I feel I do no damage and I'm one of those en players this site hates so much. I don't get to play with other en players much being on ship 10.


Got 1000+ hours into my main while the other 2 have less then 150ish.

Sounds like it's just lack of experience. Most people here have at least three times that much playtime, so don't worry about it. Just keep playing and you'll undoubtedly notice significant improvements over time as you get more experienced and comfortable with how the game works.

[Miles064]

If you made an account before ep2, then 3 free characters. else its 2.

If you can afford, move your lesser used characters to Ship 2 lol.

My account was made pretty much when the game came out. I would rather not pay for a transfer because I still have to buy mags(I play every class in every ps game ever)

[Miles064]

Sounds like it's just lack of experience. Most people here have at least three times that much playtime, so don't worry about it. Just keep playing and you'll undoubtedly notice significant improvements over time as you get more experienced and comfortable with how the game works.

Oh I get that. I'm used to games like wow though. Step dodging is still difficult for me. Kinda the reason I like HU over FI. Block is the love of my life. Still, I would love to learn more about the other classes from people that play them.

[GHNeko]

If you have 3 characters, they you might not have a free character left.

So pretty much your SOL lol.

[Requiem Aeternam]

I can help you out(ID same as forum name) if we happen to play at the same time I'll give you hints and many other stuff too(except Taco I hate those).
There's plenty of guides and stuff around here for research, but for some, it's easier seeing them in action(for me both are effective).

On-topic, we need to seriously spread the word as I still see people without affixes on weapons/units or lvI affixes and even grindless.

I refuse to believe people do this on purpose, and it is very cheap/easy to get at least 3 lvIII affixes and a Soul. If people on my party are like that, occasionally I'll mention politely that their equipment need an upgrade and ask if they know about affixing/grinding.

However, this can backfire and people will call you elitist(even leaving the game!), which I think is quite jarring, as my stuff is mostly 4 affixes with some 6 slot equips. But I guess as mentioned, some people don't/won't learn.

That would be awesome, thanks ^^ My ID is Brimstone. I don't get on too much outside of late evenings (UK time) so I'm not sure how often we'd be on at the same time. Luckily TACOs are something I can already do after a 3 hour YT session. I've tried reading guides for things I'm unsure of but I find it hard to understand some without images or videos to go along with them. Grinding/affixing/crafting being the obvious ones. I don't use the English patch either which makes it a bit harder. Strategies to deal with bosses in VHard or higher would be helpful too as at the moment I just stay as far away from them as possible and spam Na Megid which takes forever, isn't fun nor does it work for all the bosses.

As for my gear my characters are using some crafted MB stuff that had decent affixes on them because those are the best I've got outside one 11* Katana that has poor affixes. While my damage is alright in VHard it's really poor in comparison to other players on SHard and XHard which is a bit of a letdown so I'd be more than happy to upgrade.

I don't see why some people assume others are elitists because they have better gear than them and they recommend upgrading. I'd be more than happy to accept help from a better player as they know what they're doing and are probably the best people to go to for help.

[Sandmind]

I can probably help also. Most of my knowledge is mostly technic class oriented, otherwise it's general stuff I picked up over time.

@ Greedy Chibi: Feel free to drop me a PM on PSO-W if you got questions or for something else. Easier to catch me there.

[Requiem Aeternam]

I can probably help also. Most of my knowledge is mostly technic class oriented, otherwise it's general stuff I picked up over time.

@ Greedy Chibi: Feel free to drop me a PM on PSO-W if you got questions or for something else. Easier to catch me there.

Great, thanks ^^ I'm going to make one of my characters fully Force/Techer oriented once the Mag Level Down Devices are released so any help would be appreciated. Loving Force right now even though both my characters are maining Melee classes.

[Sandmind]

I can already answer that one post in the most recent broadcoast's thread mentionned that the Mag level down device from excube exchange was a whopping 50 for 1 lv. It's not meant for a full mag reset, unless you're swimming in excube (or around 100 magastu if each EQ gave you around 100 for a full reset).

Main problem with FO for damage, is that full generalist is just plain bad. I have been there. I was okay in VH, but then SH came out and I ended up leveling FI and resetting my tree (1st as fire, now as ice when EP3 hitted). For FOTE, make one element for each FO and TE (heck, TE can main 2 as a sub) your main, max out the rest of the important skills, then spare can be dropped into a 2nd element if you wish.

FI sub mostly allow me to ignore most of the element matching for optimal damage. There is only left the fact that elemental weakness is 30% for mono and 20% for dual, outside of boss who can vary and lot have resists. Ult mob/boss get a 15% resist accross the board before elemental weakness.

[Macmaxi]

I have a few mlg friends on ship 4 in my team i usually spam when i need something, especially a few guys who have poured over 10000 hours into the game are really helpful in whatever matter.


For a few guys who wanted to start playing, i dragged them into a Skype Conversation and if they need anything i'll be the one looking it up for them. Most EN people are on Ship 2, but i enjoy being on 4. There might not be any random lobby conversations, but it's quiet at least.

[FireswordRus]

we learn on their own and others' mistakes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTArLyuMOI0

[Shadowstarkirby]

I think it'd be a good idea if I shared my own first player experience of the game to give a better idea of what the real problem is. I joined just a week ago.

...but first, I'd like to tackle the idea that the Westies don't look things up, for PSO2, that definitely isn't the case. The majority of people that play PSO2 patched obviously have a great interest or dedication to the series. To even play this game at all, you have to go through such a roundabout method to even download and get properly working that most people would not even bother because at the face of it, it looks overwhelming and you have to do *gasp*..."work" to get it up and running properly vs. one click to download on something like Steam. Maybe I'm giving too much credit, but this really isn't the issue.

There will always be the "baddies" that will stay bad cause they choose not to do research and optimize themselves to be the best of their class, that's true anywhere else as it is in the West. I'm not trying to disregard that there isn't very terrible players, I happened to start up in Block 1 and was graced by obnoxious players and their annoyingly lewd Symbol Arts , but it doesn't make a good impression on new people who visit the forums and see shitpost like saying, "get people to stop speaking english in lobbies" like we're some kind of plague or something.

With that out of the way, trying to find information in and outside of the game...is in all honestly hard and unsatisfying. Yes, there are threads dedicated to Official Builds, Ask Anything, Class Discussion, and several build guides from outside sources such as the ones provided by Selphia (which are great examples of good guides). These are all very helpful to an extent, but where the problem comes up is that information between all of these sources varies immensely, specific to only a few builds, or some are not explained in depth whatsoever, if at all.

I'll use my personal experience for example, I like Bouncer, particularly for it's mobility, and like any new Bouncer, you fawn over Jet Boots...but trying to find a Jet Boots guide? Good luck with that, there wasn't any I could find as hard as I looked, just some scattered around builds through Reddit and Youtube. How does Bo/Hu perform vs. other classes? Hell, how do any of the classes compare to one another? Beats me, cause there really isn't a place to go to see how well classes perform vs. another in areas of the game unless specifically asked for...which will be lost inside the cluster of other questions in the Ask Anything thread. Your next best hope is that the players in your team are experienced and willing to assist you with questions otherwise.

Because of how little information there was, I ended up deciding on using Dual Blades instead, it was frustrating. Having only one tree per class and only being able to get reset passes on a few occasions, new players can't afford to spend their points on weird builds that will hamper their potential for who knows how long, so it's important that there's a convenient place where players can find everything about their class in great detail, and with how a lot of text in-game is still untranslated, guidance is of even greater importance.

Everything right now is simply scattered, hard to find, vague, highly opinionated, or outdated. If there was a Wiki, or at least a single site where everything was condensed and factually researched by a group of dedicated players, there wouldn't be much a problem, but as it is, it indeed is just a crapshoot.

[Achelousaurus]

Or you know, you could actually make a thread of your own. No one complains if you ask stuff not included in guides. And even if, people are gonna tell you 9/10 times.

But the real problem is the people that don't even know or care about this or any other site with gameplay guides for PSO2.

People that not only use gear as they find it and then fail at the game whatever they do, ovewriting properly placed WB, engaging enemies at the north in TD without killing them, dying all the time without contributing and lvling in Magatsu at 58/12.

Sadly the game is focused on 12 people and not 4, so you can't easily cut out the pugs and do your own thing.

[Selphea]

I think it'd be a good idea if I shared my own first player experience of the game to give a better idea of what the real problem is. I joined just a week ago.

...but first, I'd like to tackle the idea that the Westies don't look things up, for PSO2, that definitely isn't the case. The majority of people that play PSO2 patched obviously have a great interest or dedication to the series. To even play this game at all, you have to go through such a roundabout method to even download and get properly working that most people would not even bother because at the face of it, it looks overwhelming and you have to do *gasp*..."work" to get it up and running properly vs. one click to download on something like Steam. Maybe I'm giving too much credit, but this really isn't the issue.

There will always be the "baddies" that will stay bad cause they choose not to do research and optimize themselves to be the best of their class, that's true anywhere else as it is in the West. I'm not trying to disregard that there isn't very terrible players, I happened to start up in Block 1 and was graced by obnoxious players and their annoyingly lewd Symbol Arts , but it doesn't make a good impression on new people who visit the forums and see shitpost like saying, "get people to stop speaking english in lobbies" like we're some kind of plague or something.

With that out of the way, trying to find information in and outside of the game...is in all honestly hard and unsatisfying. Yes, there are threads dedicated to Official Builds, Ask Anything, Class Discussion, and several build guides from outside sources such as the ones provided by Selphia (which are great examples of good guides). These are all very helpful to an extent, but where the problem comes up is that information between all of these sources varies immensely, specific to only a few builds, or some are not explained in depth whatsoever, if at all.

I'll use my personal experience for example, I like Bouncer, particularly for it's mobility, and like any new Bouncer, you fawn over Jet Boots...but trying to find a Jet Boots guide? Good luck with that, there wasn't any I could find as hard as I looked, just some scattered around builds through Reddit and Youtube. How does Bo/Hu perform vs. other classes? Hell, how do any of the classes compare to one another? Beats me, cause there really isn't a place to go to see how well classes perform vs. another in areas of the game unless specifically asked for...which will be lost inside the cluster of other questions in the Ask Anything thread. Your next best hope is that the players in your team are experienced and willing to assist you with questions otherwise.

Because of how little information there was, I ended up deciding on using Dual Blades instead, it was frustrating. Having only one tree per class and only being able to get reset passes on a few occasions, new players can't afford to spend their points on weird builds that will hamper their potential for who knows how long, so it's important that there's a convenient place where players can find everything about their class in great detail, and with how a lot of text in-game is still untranslated, guidance is of even greater importance.

Everything right now is simply scattered, hard to find, vague, highly opinionated, or outdated. If there was a Wiki, or at least a single site where everything was condensed and factually researched by a group of dedicated players, there wouldn't be much a problem, but as it is, it indeed is just a crapshoot.

I've been slow about new guides but I'll do a Jet Boots one... eventually. Will update the DB guide to look more like the Gunner guide and account for new 13* and upcoming PAs first.