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Chris_Chocobo
Apr 14, 2015, 01:19 PM
Since the episode 3 is not translated yet im still beating his chapters and even if i dont understand a word i like the story. There are some aspects from the story that caused me confusion so i want to ask some questions, so let's see if anyone can explain those.

1.In the first chapter, there's a cutscene when two dark forces (i suppose they are Double) crushing a planet. What planet is that?
2.Who are exactly Sukunahime's parents and what happened to them?
3.In the last chapter, why is Elder fighting in our side defending Melphonsina and Apprentice? He turned soft suddenly? Why we are protecting Apprentice? Why Double tries to ''eat'' apprentice or attack other Dark Falzs? They are killing between them?

Sorry if those questions has been asked before.

the_importer_
Apr 14, 2015, 01:28 PM
Although I don't understand Japanese, Anime experience sort of tells me that the fact that both Elder and Apprentice took over human bodies, that their human side my be coming out or at lease mixing with the darker side to create new emotion. From what I understood, Elder found out that Double killed the previous Apprentice and Loser and is now pissed.

Dycize
Apr 14, 2015, 01:29 PM
1/ It's Harukotan.
2/ Sukunahime's parents were the Black Prince and the White Princess, they gave their life to bring their daughter back to life.
3/Elder "switches" sides because he doesn't like Double's way of doing things (that is, eat other Falzes and make mindless clones of them). Apprentice has Yucreeta's body (Afin's sister) and then we learn that she's not actually a "real Falz" so that's why we don't kill our pals' sister. When Double eats something, he gets the ability to make clones of it.

LonelyGaruga
Apr 14, 2015, 01:59 PM
Since the episode 3 is not translated yet im still beating his chapters and even if i dont understand a word i like the story. There are some aspects from the story that caused me confusion so i want to ask some questions, so let's see if anyone can explain those.

1.In the first chapter, there's a cutscene when two dark forces (i suppose they are Double) crushing a planet. What planet is that?
2.Who are exactly Sukunahime's parents and what happened to them?
3.In the last chapter, why is Elder fighting in our side defending Melphonsina and Apprentice? He turned soft suddenly? Why we are protecting Apprentice? Why Double tries to ''eat'' apprentice or attack other Dark Falzs? They are killing between them?

Sorry if those questions has been asked before.

1) It's a random planet. Double did it, yes.

2) As said, the prince of the nation of Kuronia and the princess of the nation of Shironia. Dunno what happened to them, but I guess the above might be the answer? The planet that was destroyed wasn't Harkotan though...otherwise we wouldn't be able to go to Harkotan.

3) Presumably, the host does have an influence on a Dark Falz, as Elder actually refers to Mel by her proper name in this cutscene. He also might have had a friendship with Apprentice in the past, but that's speculation. Apprentice herself is an incredibly bitchy person as demonstrated by Oldprentice, so it's hard to be sure. The Apprentice in the present is not really Apprentice, as Afin's sister only has a small portion of Apprentice possessing her, with the rest having been absorbed by Double during the possession attempt. Double wants to take away the rest of Apprentice's power from Afin's sister, which is why she's being protected.

Basically

-Double's motivation for absorbing other Dark Falzes is not completely clear, but it's in line with their goal of complete destruction of everything, as stated in the cutscene. Double appears to gain the abilities of Dark Falzes that it absorbs and can create clones of them, so it may just seem more effective for Double to absorb every Dark Falz.
-Elder does not approve of Double's actions, so he allies with ARKS temporarily. But he also seems to care about Mel.
-Double tries to absorb Elder, but Elder teleports them all somewhere. Double's dialogue implies his actions have a high risk of causing him to die, so he could have sacrificed himself doing this, but chances are he's a-OK.
-Afin's sister, undergoing an identity crisis, since she's a Dark Falz but not really a Dark Falz at the same time, just kinda leaves.

nephie
Apr 14, 2015, 02:07 PM
1. not stated. it's just to show how dreadful [double] is, and to show its nature of liking destruction.

2. her father is the son of the king of black tribe of harkotan and her mother is the daughter of the king of white tribe of harkotan, who married each other to end the battle that has occured between white-black for eternity in harkotan. But their child (sukunahime) is small and never grew bigger, she also was born gray-colored, which is not black and white. Each of the king blame each other son/daughter for sukunahime's condition thus resparking the ended war. Sukunahime's parent, of course also got caught in the flame of war. Sukunahime try to stop the quarrel between her parent but ended with her die in the midst of their parent battle. Her parent then realize their foolishness, they wished to the star (or the planet harkotan itself) to revive sukunahime in exchange of their life. Sukunahime then revived, and she cryied for days after knowing the fate of her parent. Her tear then create the big river that separate the black and white territory and thus ending the war between tribe.

3. At first, [elder] step up to protect [apprentice] (or to be exact... faker [apprentice] or remnant of [apprentice]) which was being attacked by [double]. He also know that [loser] was eaten by [double] making him realized that each dark falz are not a real comrade... and he also clearly stated that he won't hesitate to fight another dark falz, especially that his medium (gettemhult) has a heavy murderous intent to [double] (which revealed on the same matterboard that [double] is the culprit of true melfonseana (gettemhult lover) death). [double] then get pissed off that [elder] and also faker [apprentice] acted not like what a dark falz supposed to be (about their role to revive profound darkness by being the new one) and try to eat them.
[elder] protecting melfonseana is probably there to show that gettemhult personality was never really devoured by [elder] (thus making speculation if gettemhult break the seal of [elder] is for revenge against [double], instead of him wanting to die in a fatal fight against dark falz)

Dycize
Apr 14, 2015, 02:19 PM
Mea culpa on that 1st answer, I didn't remember the cutscene much and thought it was a sort of vision rather than something that actually happened.

Should have your answers now, and yup, the hosts do have an influence on the Falz (it gets really obvious with Elder).

And Double's answer to Elder boils down to "What are you doing? Forgot about the Profound Darkness? Hellooooo we're trying to end the world, not have tea parties."

Chris_Chocobo
Apr 14, 2015, 04:16 PM
But if Yucrita is half Apprentice or less. What she's been looking for in Lilipa's mining Base? She's looking his body or someone's body right? Thanks for the responses guys! Even if we still dont have a exact clue of what planet Double explodes, im fine with all your answers! ^^

Maenara
Apr 14, 2015, 04:29 PM
Claris Claes sealed the original [Apprentice]'s power inside Lillipa, presumably the mining bases were built on top of the area it was sealed.

Ephidiel
Apr 14, 2015, 04:30 PM
She was looking for her Body like Elders Body is to Hunar.
But since she is actually only a small amount of Apprentice she cant sense it, that or Double gobbled up her true body already

Chris_Chocobo
Apr 14, 2015, 04:32 PM
Claris Claes sealed the original [Apprentice]'s power inside Lillipa, presumably the mining bases were built on top of the area it was sealed.


When you say real power is like Elder's real avatar sealed in the giant tree of Ruins right?

Edit: Sorry Ephidiel, didn't see your reply before :P

Mattykins
Apr 14, 2015, 04:36 PM
Claris Claes sealed the original [Apprentice]'s power inside Lillipa, presumably the mining bases were built on top of the area it was sealed.

Is Lilliparium actually Apprentice chunks? D:

Reia
Apr 14, 2015, 04:40 PM
But if Yucrita is half Apprentice or less. What she's been looking for in Lilipa's mining Base? She's looking his body or someone's body right? Thanks for the responses guys! Even if we still dont have a exact clue of what planet Double explodes, im fine with all your answers! ^^

Aprentice is looking for her Falz Body that been sealed even since then (10 years ago she also seemed to be searching for it). Apparently Loser knew where is it and abused to use Apprentice to command the bug darkers to do his bidding, but that secret died with him. (And most likely she's been attacking the bases guessing where is it since Loser cut ties with the other falz when he got enough Senkii to become an artificial Photoner and never talk with them ever again.)

However I think Elder was too soft for inclunding Loser in the mix for his reasons to betray Double. Given that Loser also aimed to stop being a falz and become something closer to a god that rules everything even above falz, he was a very strong one so Double only got the chance to eat him after Regius sealed him with his Yonohate.

Now my question is who really is the Persona? My closest guess is that is a dead version of you in the future that double copied (Like the ARKS clones but above since you are stronger than average ARKS), but has a mind of it's own. The copies also inherit all the original's abilities (In this case your ability to traverse cross-Time/Dimension, while it has your appearance, it doesn't inherit your memories) and Persona and Double shares the same roles, aside that Double's gauntlets and design resembles Persona's design and mask.

Chris_Chocobo
Apr 14, 2015, 04:50 PM
Aprentice is looking for her Falz Body that been sealed even since then (10 years ago she also seemed to be searching for it). Apparently Loser knew where is it and abused to use Apprentice to command the bug darkers to do his bidding, but that secret died with him. (And most likely she's been attacking the bases guessing where is it since Loser cut ties with the other falz when he got enough Senkii to become an artificial Photoner and never talk with them ever again.)

However I think Elder was too soft for inclunding Loser in the mix for his reasons to betray Double. Given that Loser also aimed to stop being a falz and become something closer to a god that rules everything even above falz, he was a very strong one so Double only got the chance to eat him after Regius sealed him with his Yonohate.

I was surprised at firts when i saw a Dark Falz joining forces with the good guys. Even if he has his own reasons. But when i saw defend Shina i get the conclusion that Gettemhart has still influence as his host and retain some memories. I dont like to think a Dark Falz being soft so suddenly. He only craves destruction so, Double is doing right his role.

Persona i think is a future Falz version of our own character. Whenever we try to change history, he's here to avoid it.

LonelyGaruga
Apr 14, 2015, 04:50 PM
Persona is the player from an alternate timeline that was destroyed by the Profound Darkness. Persona acts on their own accord to make sure that the player is able to challenge the Profound Darkness in their timeline.

Chris_Chocobo
Apr 14, 2015, 04:56 PM
Persona is the player from an alternate timeline that was destroyed by the Profound Darkness. Persona acts on their own accord to make sure that the player is able to challenge the Profound Darkness in their timeline.

Its possible that Ultimate Quest are how the world looks like when the Profund Darkness is free? I have a bad feeling about Matoi's future...

Reia
Apr 14, 2015, 04:58 PM
Persona is the player from an alternate timeline that was destroyed by the Profound Darkness. Persona acts on their own accord to make sure that the player is able to challenge the Profound Darkness in their timeline.

That somehow makes sense, when he stabs Matoi to death, he defines Matoi's personal death as "peace/rest". So he was trying to kill Matoi back then to accelerate the process where the Profound Darkness might had been weakened/incomplete form and be able to be defeated. In EP3 he also refers that Matoi "can't be saved", so he tries to put in your head that there's no future where Matoi lives and have a good ending for everyone either.

Still we're not able to define Persona's source of power yet, he has yet the ability to command darkers that only Elder or Apprentice could.

TheAstarion
Apr 14, 2015, 05:13 PM
Apprentice attacking bases is probably her way of doing Darker duty without actually going out of her way to kill anyone. She says in episode 2 that Darkers only fight ARKS because ARKS fight Darkers, taken to its logical extreme it can be inferred that the only reason the Darkers attack anyone at mining bases is because there were people sent there to defend it to begin with.

One of my early theories was that the bug-type Darkers are a corrupted version of the indigenous race of Lilipa, an insect race who eventually built mechs to do drone (which became dagan) work. As they became infested, the mechs knew to attack zombie lilisectoids but not their real masters, until there was nothing left of the original race. It's possible that there's a mass of Dark energy within Lilipa's core (and everything from Void Facility requires Darker extract so mining for it is a decent idea) which would give a reason for the natives to have been corrupted, for the Darkers to want to get to it, and for ARKS to want to extract it too. The Falz sealed on Naberius could have been a similar mass of energy until Gettemhardt became a suitable host for it.

Gettemhardt was a blood knight through and through and Colossus takes that and runs with it; all he cares about is fighting, to the point that he'd rather lose a fair fight than have any part of a boring one. He finds Double distasteful, and I even predicted he'd have found Luther disgusting too but Luther is now a mindless afterthought. Shame, as Luther would have also been a creepy enough guy to be perving over Melphonsina. Incidentally, Colossus is now a better person than Gettemhardt ever was.

Yayate
Apr 14, 2015, 05:35 PM
Its possible that Ultimate Quest are how the world looks like when the Profund Darkness is free? I have a bad feeling about Matoi's future...

Ultimate Naberius is our Naberius, except the Profound Darkness' corruption has suddenly drastically effected the wildlife and mutated everything drastically, and Anga Fundarge (who is probably from Persona's timeline) has moved there. It is definitely our Naberius, though.

We don't know about Ultimate Lilipa yet, I think. Maybe it activated as a last line of defense against the recent heavy Falz activity on the planet, or maybe that actually is

EspeonageTieler
Apr 14, 2015, 05:37 PM
Its possible that Ultimate Quest are how the world looks like when the Profund Darkness is free? I have a bad feeling about Matoi's future...

i have that same bad feeling but it feels like everything that has happened from what xion had the player do was all to save matoi so it gives me hope that we can really save her


.....otherwise ill cry like a bitch

LonelyGaruga
Apr 14, 2015, 06:06 PM
Its possible that Ultimate Quest are how the world looks like when the Profund Darkness is free? I have a bad feeling about Matoi's future...

Possibly? It's difficult to say because both Ultimate Naberius and Lilipa appear to have been how the area looked in its past, with Forest having a more primal/prehistoric appearance and Tunnels being more pristine and unworn. The only real explanation for Ultimate areas is that Anga Fundarge is altering them, and while Anga Fundarge is from an alternate timeline, we don't know the full details about that, or even if Anga Fundarge is altering areas to resemble the destroyed timeline or they're just random alterations. On the other hand, based off how the Wondas and Kuklo/Cyclos have a stronger resemblance to Dark Falz Elder, the darkers in Ultimate areas could be more closely related to their respective Falzes than normal (if this is true, then Apprentice will have a vivid black/red appearance like insect Yuga darkers). So the darkers in the area could be presumed to be stronger than ordinary ones, which they would be in a destroyed future.

But really, it's pretty inconclusive at this point.


Still we're not able to define Persona's source of power yet, he has yet the ability to command darkers that only Elder or Apprentice could.

My pet theory is that Anga Fundarge is spawned by Persona, but there's no actual word on whether that's the case or not. There's pretty strong evidence for this being the case, though.

Maenara
Apr 14, 2015, 06:07 PM
Anga Fundarge is from the same timeline that [Persona] is. Anga Fundarge has the ability warp the surrounding area to the same timeline that it's from, resulting in ultimate areas.

silo1991
Apr 14, 2015, 09:28 PM
thinking about it have you notice the aesthetic of anga fundarge is the same one as our photon blast :O , what if the photon beast are just the photon blast of persona

nephie
Apr 14, 2015, 10:46 PM
I was surprised at firts when i saw a Dark Falz joining forces with the good guys. Even if he has his own reasons. But when i saw defend Shina i get the conclusion that Gettemhart has still influence as his host and retain some memories. I dont like to think a Dark Falz being soft so suddenly. He only craves destruction so, Double is doing right his role.

Persona i think is a future Falz version of our own character. Whenever we try to change history, he's here to avoid it.

It was already hinted that Gettenhult memory/personality affect [elder] back when he chase over zeno instead of casra at ruin area.

Plus [elder] is just a battle freak. he loves a good battle above all. up to the point when he face double he said that, as long as he got a good fight, he doesn't mind who the opponent is - whether its ARKS or dark falz. So its still fits his dark falz personality.

[double] on the other hand is described as a dark falz who likes destruction (that's the whole point of the planet destruction scene which coincidentally you also asked earlier LOL)... so yea in a sense [double] is the only dark falz with villainous trait so far



[persona] seems only to appear whenever matoi involved... at naberius when matoi's body first found, on each planet with clarissa's fragment, and all those whisper to the MC on eps 3.
the fact that [persona] voice changed along with the MC gender (plus Xiao also mention that [persona] has the same reading and parameter as the MC) leads to some speculation that he is no other than the MC. Who probably choose to become the profound darkness itself and will offer himself sacrificed rather than seeing matoi merged with profound darkness and be hated by people she protected (arks).

EspeonageTieler
Apr 15, 2015, 12:19 AM
It was already hinted that Gettenhult memory/personality affect [elder] back when he chase over zeno instead of casra at ruin area.

Plus [elder] is just a battle freak. he loves a good battle above all. up to the point when he face double he said that, as long as he got a good fight, he doesn't mind who the opponent is - whether its ARKS or dark falz. So its still fits his dark falz personality.

[double] on the other hand is described as a dark falz who likes destruction (that's the whole point of the planet destruction scene which coincidentally you also asked earlier LOL)... so yea in a sense [double] is the only dark falz with villainous trait so far



[persona] seems only to appear whenever matoi involved... at naberius when matoi's body first found, on each planet with clarissa's fragment, and all those whisper to the MC on eps 3.
the fact that [persona] voice changed along with the MC gender (plus Xiao also mention that [persona] has the same reading and parameter as the MC) leads to some speculation that he is no other than the MC. Who probably choose to become the profound darkness itself and will offer himself sacrificed rather than seeing matoi merged with profound darkness and be hated by people she protected (arks).

if that was the case he wouldnt be trying to kill her he is probably the MC from the future or another time line or something that became a dark falz

Shinamori
Apr 15, 2015, 01:44 AM
Wasn't the planet "Copi" or something like that?

nephie
Apr 15, 2015, 02:17 AM
if that was the case he wouldnt be trying to kill her he is probably the MC from the future or another time line or something that became a dark falz

back in 2-6, you see that matoi almost have mental breakdown when she needs to fight against 4 unknown arks under [apprentice] control. now imagine if matoi as profound darkness need to fight against arks she comes to know (sarah, foorie, etc) and the MC. how much suffering will she got from it, especially now that we know that the person infected by dark falz is actually still feel the same as ever.
and ironically, it was [persona] who save her from that breakdown by killing those arks. sure back then it might be an act since he know [apprentice] still alive after, but now we know that [apprentice] will meet her end after she got near-dead.
[persona] always blabber that killing matoi is the best to end her suffering and fate. and i'm sure matoi won't suffer as much if a random new unknown dark falz kill her rather than the MC and fellow arks



Wasn't the planet "Copi" or something like that?

the 2 sphere is not [double] true form, they are copy of a planet devoured by [double] used to crush the said planet. So probably you hear "copy" from it

EspeonageTieler
Apr 15, 2015, 12:08 PM
back in 2-6, you see that matoi almost have mental breakdown when she needs to fight against 4 unknown arks under [apprentice] control. now imagine if matoi as profound darkness need to fight against arks she comes to know (sarah, foorie, etc) and the MC. how much suffering will she got from it, especially now that we know that the person infected by dark falz is actually still feel the same as ever.
and ironically, it was [persona] who save her from that breakdown by killing those arks. sure back then it might be an act since he know [apprentice] still alive after, but now we know that [apprentice] will meet her end after she got near-dead.
[persona] always blabber that killing matoi is the best to end her suffering and fate. and i'm sure matoi won't suffer as much if a random new unknown dark falz kill her rather than the MC and fellow arks




the 2 sphere is not [double] true form, they are copy of a planet devoured by [double] used to crush the said planet. So probably you hear "copy" from it

thats what i mean because it sounded like you meant persona became a dark falz so matio wouldnt have to

Superia
Apr 15, 2015, 12:15 PM
Anga Fundarge is from the same timeline that [Persona] is. Anga Fundarge has the ability warp the surrounding area to the same timeline that it's from, resulting in ultimate areas.

That sounds pretty dangerous.

Poyonche
Apr 15, 2015, 12:25 PM
In fact, the planet that got crushed was a copy that was made by Xiao of a planed HE absorbed some times ago ( He says : The copy I made of a planet I absorbed was completely, utterly crushed, ... Almost like a toy. [it is the story patch] ).

A thing I was thinking about, Xiao says that Double is the worst Dark Falz, moreover, it is actually the only Falz that needs two hosts. So can we guess that Dark Falz Double is so powerful that he needs two vessels to contain its power ?

Renvalt
Apr 15, 2015, 02:28 PM
The way I see things, Elder's reluctance to kill anyone would more than likely stem from his love of fighting strong people - he doesn't want to kill them unless they're not worth fighting anymore. The longer they live, the more he can fight them; thus he wants to beat them senseless, but he won't actually KILL unless he senses that they've lost their fighting spirit (I mean, he's even willing to wait for non-combatants to leave the arena - though this IS a trait that Gettemhalt was known for, even in his arsehole personality mode).

Apprentice-Yucreta seems to have difficulties finding her power, but part of me believes that said difficulty stems from who the host is in this case - remember that in 2-4, Afin mentioned he's always looking for things she loses (almost like she's using him as a bloodhound or something - finding things for others is Afin's forte, he mentions this himself) as a way of appealing to the person inside. From what I can tell, this implies that Yucreta has terrible perception of her surroundings, and could be shortsighted? Not sure, but it does explain to some degree why "Falz" Yucreta couldn't find her "body" (granted, it's not really hers to begin with).

To me, the REAL Apprentice can't find her body due to being a mindless puppet subject to Double's manipulation, so she's using Yucreta in such a similar way as Yucreta would likely have used Afin back when they were kids (Afin's timid nature stemming from how his sister bosses him around). Thing is, Apprentice probably didn't realize that she got the worst scout of the two. But then again, it's not like she's in any position to care - she's one of Double's braindead slaves, of course.

With Persona, I get the feeling he let you go on Harukotan because he might secretly want to see if you can do what he couldn't - sure, he says Matoi's unsaveable, but with Japanese story-telling you never know. Notice also how he hasn't appeared in a single EP3 chapter AFTER that appearance. Methinks that he's playing observer at this point, and won't intervene unless you fuck up as he already "knows" you will.

As for Double... we'll fight them. Their host is a pair of bratty twins - when kids find that "games" aren't going their way, they throw a tantrum. Only question remaining is: what is their own "true form"?

nephie
Apr 15, 2015, 02:58 PM
thats what i mean because it sounded like you meant persona became a dark falz so matio wouldnt have to

profound darkness


In fact, the planet that got crushed was a copy that was made by Xiao of a planed HE absorbed some times ago ( He says : The copy I made of a planet I absorbed was completely, utterly crushed, ... Almost like a toy. [it is the story patch] ).

A thing I was thinking about, Xiao says that Double is the worst Dark Falz, moreover, it is actually the only Falz that needs two hosts. So can we guess that Dark Falz Double is so powerful that he needs two vessels to contain its power ?

so... you mean that story patch never made mistake?
here's xiao dialogue from sentence
自らが食らった惑星のコピーを生み
思いっきり、ぶつけてみせたのさ。
・・・・・・まるで、オモチャのように。
you will see that no subject there, but you know that Xiao is telling story about [double] so it still refer to [double]


from [double] dialogue in 3-4 it is infered that [double] doesn't have host body (or maybe [double] can fully manipulate it like Luther did)
Right after [elder] declaring the killing intent of his host, [double] called [elder] (and faker [apprentice]) as non-pure dark falz and no longer admiting them as real dark falz

Poyonche
Apr 15, 2015, 03:44 PM
Oops forgot to say I was not sure as it is in the story patch. Sorry for the mistake.

Chris_Chocobo
Apr 15, 2015, 06:17 PM
Double allways reminds me that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMbI7DmLCNI

Like Lisa, they creep me out. As for Anga Fundarge, i allways thought to be a corrupted Photon Blast from Persona. In his timeline, all was corrupted by the Profund Darkness so the PB are corrupted too.

There are many tehories from this story. Hope they dont take too long to give us another story chapter >_<