What Do You Guys Think Of The New PAs?

[Lostbob117]

I haven't been able to try out the new Partizan one yet. Gonna do that when I get home.

What about the rest? Are the fun to use?

Partizan one reminds me of Dus Skadd, which was my favorite PA in PSU so I'm excited to use it.

[final_attack]

TMG PA's fun. Gap-closer ...... movement range is pretty far (control-able to some extend) ...... flinch on hit ...... 20PP ...... easier to use in TPS, compared to other gap-closers PA ...... hit at cross-hair (can pin point for headshot, and can move cross-hair between 1st salvo and 2nd salvo) ...... can be used for escaping enemy attacks (no invincibility frame though) :D

The downside is just it's single target .... it seems to be no vertical tracking too, but I dunno if it has vertical tracking in auto-aim mode.

Overall, very fun :D

[wefwq]

Liking new DB PA so far, it's kinda fun to use since it's kinda fast.
Haven't test Strezwei on the real GS yet so i don't really know if it's worth using or not, but it's kinda neat that you can link striking PA > ranged PA by using weapon action with decreased PP cost.

[Nyansan]

Haven't tried Immortal Dove and Hurricane Sender yet.

Grim Barrage is basically a gap closer for Satellite Aim and makes a real good boss fighting PA with Satellite what with it being cancelable mid flight

Tear Grid I haven't tested yet in actual fights but from what I can see it makes a nice finisher for Vol Graptor. Really high PP cost though (45pp)

Strezwei is <3; Gun-form version of this PA is a strong circular AOE which makes it a good mobbing tool and is quite spammable. Sword-form is single target, but haven't tried it that much yet.

[Eternal255]

Liking new DB PA so far, it's kinda fun to use since it's kinda fast.

That's good to hear. Hopefully its not to difficult to get?

[wefwq]

That's good to hear. Hopefully its not to difficult to get?
I dunno, at first 2 hours spinning around on ult lillipa i got none, but the next hour i'm showering on it, that probably because im using triboost100+rare250.

[Maenara]

Strezwei is <3; Gun-form version of this PA is a strong circular AOE which makes it a good mobbing tool and is quite spammable. Sword-form is single target, but haven't tried it that much yet.

Try pressing Shift after using gun-mode.

[Nyansan]

Try pressing Shift after using gun-mode.
Wait, what happens if you press shi-- OOOOMFG o3o!!!

[Terrence]

Tear Grid is too expensive in my opinion (45 PP at Level 1) but quite powerful. You have to keep the PA button pressed a few seconds to fire maximum beams before releasing a final devastating piercing strike. I'm loving it.

[Dycize]

I mostly played around with Tears Grid and Strezwei.

Tears Grid is stronk. We're talking 3610% at level 16 here. A whooping 45PP, but the damage is up to the cost.
You can tap the PA, which is like tapping a tech : a wonderful waste of PP. Instead, you hold the PA, which increases the duration and the strength of the multiple stabs, your character then turns to prepare the last burts hit, which does a truckload of damage. The range is also bigger than the SFX (at least with gear), so it's deceptively good as a medium mobbing tool.

Strezwei is simply waaaaay too fun. As said, the shoot portion of the PA is a 360° aoe, it comes out fast, ends fast, fairly cheap PP cost (25). The melee portion is a fast frontal attack, if you attack again while your char does it, your char then dashes forward and executes a fairly powerful melee combo on the ennemy hit (for free).
And of course, the shift action makes you do the other variation for only 10PP (you can't spam it tho, you'll have to start the PA again after shifting once).

Haven't tried out Grim Barrage and Immortal Dove yet, but they look like they're nice. I got Hurricane Sender, but haven't tried it in action yet.

[Poyonche]

Hurricane Sender is spammable when you have alot of ennemies around you : Hurricane Sender -> Tornado (you regain immediately tornado if you have many ennemies around you) -> Hurricane Sender -> Tornado etc...

The GS pa, Strezwei, just A-MA-ZING ! I'm lovin' it ! I spam it and ennemies are like "Omfg wtf is happening ?" Strezwei (Strike)-> Shift Action (Ranged) -> Strezwei (Ranged) -> Shift Action (Strike)

etc...

Good job Sega.

[Selphea]

I just spam gun mode Strezwei till most things stop moving then Shift to clean up stragglers. Was fun messing with it on Gunner and I can see it replacing the Double Saber slot on my FiBr.

[whitevolpe]

Twin machinegun's pa is fun. It looks like you can fly D: The problem is it can't aim freely like other old PA.

[Shunx]

Twin machinegun's pa is fun. It looks like you can fly D: The problem is it can't aim freely like other old PA.

You could always fly with Dead Approach!

I like Grim Barrage as you can control your movement mid air making controls easy for it, but turning is more wide than it is Narrow, so you still have to shoot to turn. I do enjoy it tho.Tho I only see it used for Air Movement after Arial Shooting to gain height and then spam it to fly into another direction(Like with double Jump and Gran Wave).

The last two hits of it don't connect to mobs if they're below you unlike the final hits to Elder Rebellion. So you do have to be close up. and the force stop in front of mobs is nice to get those hits in.

[Oleptro]

Is there any benefit to use Grim Barrage instead of Dead Approach? Tbh, they seem to have the same purpose.

[Nyansan]

Is there any benefit to use Grim Barrage instead of Dead Approach? Tbh, they seem to have the same purpose.

So farm been using grim barrage as a gap closer for sat aim. The amount of distance covered by dead approach is half of what grim barrage can do, not to mention both cost 20 pp so as far as pp efficiency goes grim barrage is better. Though, the aoe at the end of dead approach has its uses.

[Superia]

Is there any benefit to use Grim Barrage instead of Dead Approach? Tbh, they seem to have the same purpose.

Dead Approach is a bit quicker (not faster), more precise and causes stun in susceptible enemies. Grim Barrage has a much better total distance it is able to travel, uses superior ranged modifiers rather than striking, actually does damage, can change direction mid-flight, has a better JF window and is cancelable by S-Roll at any time. At the moment, I much prefer Grim Barrage.

[Kondibon]

The dual saber one is the only one that doesn't seem stellar. But I don't even use DS much so I dunno. :wacko:

I'm LOVING Grim Barrage and Strezwei.

[Cyclon]

The dual saber one is the only one that doesn't seem stellar. But I don't even use DS much so I dunno. :wacko:It swiftly gets you back to the ground if used from the air, but that's all I've found about it that's special in any way. I guess it's faster than most DB pas so that's a plus.

Volg Raptor into Tears Grid is stupid. From what i've tested it requires a bit of practice to pull off because the first hit of Tears Grid mustn't hit or else Volg Raptor will detonate too soon, and positioning is also important. But that damage.

[Friyn]

ヾ(AIS´･ω･)ﾉﾞ w5

Edit: 1+1=3

[nephie]

not really PA... but....

I really love fomelgion!!!

[Xaelouse]

I love the changes to ignite parry the most. All the new PAs feel meh, but at least they aren't useless.

[Friyn]

I love the changes to ignite parry the most. All the new PAs feel meh, but at least they aren't useless.

Nothing's worse than waiting a year for new PAs only to have them gather dust in your PA rack.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

The dual blade PA is a letdown to me. It's a bit more than half the damage of a heavenly kite.


Nothing's worse than waiting a year for new PAs only to have gather dust in your PA rack.

Livin' the dream. I'm sure it's as damaging as point blank distract wing spam without the stupid run-through, but still, did it have to be this weak?

[Maenara]

The melee mode on Strezwei is a perfect setup for Slash Rave.

[Kondibon]

I like Filet Mignon Fomelgion, but it really leaves you vulnerable compared to Zandion.


And Regenshlag>Strezwei>Slash Rave is fun.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Immortal dove gets a disproportionate damage boost from 16-17 because reasons.

It deals almost 2/3s the damage of heavenly kite at 17.

[EvilMag]

Partizan PA is fucking stupid.

[Miles064]

Partizan PA is fucking stupid.

In a good way? Looks cool as hell that's for sure.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

GS PA seems legit. Kinda makes me want to make a GS do Fi/Hu, and see how much I can get from the GS alone like I do katanas.



Partizan PA is fucking stupid.

Elaborate, man!

[EvilMag]

fucking overpowered is what it is.

[cheapgunner]

fucking overpowered is what it is.

Shhh.. Let's give partisan lovers there time to shine. >.>

[RadiantLegend]

I like stupid op good. Now can you volg that baby?

[Dycize]

Someone said that you can but it's a bit tricky to do.
This PA also gives you super armor, you can rotate a bit (veeery slowly, around 90° max) and if initiated in the air, you stay there for the duration of it. For the price of 45PP.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

fucking overpowered is what it is.

Can't land the last trike before vol detonates. What changes with gear? Speed along with damage/range?

[Remz69]

if you waste a bit of it you should be able to fit in the last hit for volg

[LonelyGaruga]

Volg detonates three seconds after the first hit. That PA looks like it takes more than that to me. You can't skip to the last hit either, gotta do the full thing or no final hit.

Its PP efficiency is worse than Pick Up Throw anyway. Three times the cost, but not even twice the damage. Also, according to swiki, only the last hit benefits from a damage increase from Gear. And 70% of the damage is concentrated into that last hit, so the preceding strikes are virtually worthless. It is pretty PP efficient though.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Volg detonates three seconds after the first hit. That PA looks like it takes more than that to me. You can't skip to the last hit either, gotta do the full thing or no final hit.

Its PP efficiency is worse than Pick Up Throw anyway. Three times the cost, but not even twice the damage. Also, according to swiki, only the last hit benefits from a damage increase from Gear. And 70% of the damage is concentrated into that last hit, so the preceding strikes are virtually worthless. It is pretty PP efficient though.

Pretty much everything I feared from watching the trailer.

You'd have to start stabbing the air for the first second or two, and then turn to the target...

Also, I'm shocked and appaled that no one did this yet... hold down right click to...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thSElRaIBxc

[Freshellent]

I have a bold request, if possible.

Can someone post a vid of the new PAs? That isn't the trailer version. I'd like to see real players using them.

Even if it's just a few clips beyond that trailer I'd appreciate it. Very curious!

[Selphea]

Invertex is usually quite on the ball with this.

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD3KkjGdJ5U"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD3KkjGdJ5U[/spoiler-box]

[Freshellent]

Invertex is usually quite on the ball with this.

[spoiler-box]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD3KkjGdJ5U[/spoiler-box]

Fukken excellent. Thank you!

[EspeonageTieler]

Invertex is usually quite on the ball with this.

[spoiler-box]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD3KkjGdJ5U[/spoiler-box]

didnt seem like he used the saber or gunslashes shift actions tho so incase anyone is wondering those 2 have a bit more to them (idk aobut the others)

[Radical Dreamer]

I'm happy Sega gave us a Gunslash PA that changes depending on the mode, but it makes me wonder; if they can do it with Strezwei, why can't they do it with the other PAs? It'd definitely make Gunslashes much more interesting.

[TaigaUC]

Tried some of the new stuff.

Immortal Dove or whatever;
This thing feels OP to me. It makes Kestral obsolete on the ground.
Hit range is roughly that of Hatou Rindou. The hitboxes cascade forwards and upwards, and then down.
When used in the air, it acts like Gekka Zakuro and only cascades downwards.
It's great for taking out Mikudas and even getting behind enemy shields.
Does ridiculously huge damage, something like 10-25k per hit on weak points without WB.
Feels like it rips through everything super quick. Very cheap to use, too.
And it's FAST. Way faster than anything else DB has.
Oh, and I'd imagine it's even more effective when combined with Zondeel.

Tears Grid:
I really don't like this because it doesn't hit anything like it looks.
Rapid thrust attack = one hit per .8 seconds or so? Why not multi hits?
And you have to hold it for multi hits instead of tap it? That just feels wrong.
Also feels like it's super slow compared to other Partisan stuff.
Damage wise, I haven't tried it on bosses but it seems so-so to me.
I think it was something like 15k per hit on WB'd boss (wrong element, Bio Partisan).
45k on final strike without WB on a random enemy.
If you want to destroy Lilipa TA barriers, you have to get every hit in.

Hurricane Sender:
Only tried this briefly on Luther.
I didn't know it had extra parts to it, will try those later.

Grim Barrage:
Feels super flimsy to me. No startup animation, you just fling forward.
The shots feel awkward too. Damage seems okay.
Definitely good for covering distance, but TMG PAs in general still feel too bizarre to me.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'm happy Sega gave us a Gunslash PA that changes depending on the mode, but it makes me wonder; if they can do it with Strezwei, why can't they do it with the other PAs? It'd definitely make Gunslashes much more interesting.

They took the concept from jet boot PAs and got a little creative to give it extra flavor to the gunslash.

I give them props for that.

Anyway, knowing SEGA, the ship has pretty much sailed for old GS PAs.


Tried some of the new stuff.

Immortal Dove or whatever;
This thing feels OP to me.


It deals similar damage to distract wing at 17, sans the stupid possibility of running through the target



Does ridiculously huge damage, something like 10-25k per hit on weak points without WB.
Feels like it rips through everything super quick. Very cheap to use, too.
And it's FAST. Way faster than anything else DB has.
Oh, and I'd imagine it's even more effective when combined with Zondeel.


I wouldn't call that 'ridiculously huge damage' when it gets put to shame by sakura end, and hatou so easily :nono:

Zondeel makes everything more effective.

I'm still obviously sour about its power notation not even breaking a thousand, while sakura end and hatou almost make you feel bad for what's on the receiving end of it.



This is Bo/Hu vs Br/Hu, btw. Everyone please keep the 'b-b-b-but Fi/Bo, and Gu/Bo!' gimmicks out of this.

[Shunx]

Tears Grid:
I really don't like this because it doesn't hit anything like it looks.
Rapid thrust attack = one hit per .8 seconds or so? Why not multi hits?
And you have to hold it for multi hits instead of tap it? That just feels wrong.
Also feels like it's super slow compared to other Partisan stuff.
Damage wise, I haven't tried it on bosses but it seems so-so to me.
I think it was something like 15k per hit on WB'd boss (wrong element, Bio Partisan).
45k on final strike without WB on a random enemy.
If you want to destroy Lilipa TA barriers, you have to get every hit in.



Multi hit PAs have always been like this. Instead of doing chip damage, you get a full damage multiplier. It makes it look really odd compared to those that do chip damage(Grim Barrage is one of these PAs).

[otaku998]

Tears Grid feels like Over End , where you just want to use the last hit only, but at least the multi stab is ok and the last thrust hurts so much.

[Selphea]

It deals similar damage to distract wing at 17, sans the stupid possibility of running through the target

I wouldn't call that 'ridiculously huge damage' when it gets put to shame by sakura end, and hatou so easily :nono:

I'll give you Hatou but Walkure puts Sakura End at 1.58 seconds and SWiki JC Sakura End at 94F, or 1.57 seconds. On the other hand Immortal Dove is 0.83 seconds at most, possibly 0.75. You can't compare the two hit-for-hit when you can pretty much do two Immortal Doves in the time it takes to do a single Sakura.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'll give you Hatou but Walkure puts Sakura End at 1.58 seconds and SWiki JC Sakura End at 94F, or 1.57 seconds. On the other hand Immortal Dove is 0.83 seconds at most, possibly 0.75. You can't compare the two hit-for-hit when you can pretty much do two Immortal Doves in the time it takes to do a single Sakura.

Even in consecutive sakura uses with satch JA?

But as you said, if you can possibly do two doves during a single sakura end, you end up dealing damage in the same neighborhood as one sakura end for 15 more PP.

My point is, it isn't that powerful. Pretty sure I'm not going to see 80k immortal doves into random goldrada's mouths like I do sakura ends.

I'm just going to end up still feeling let down about that 800 power notation, but i'm still trying to be content with having a decent spamming PA that doesn't involve BS like launching, movement, etc.

[Selphea]

Even in consecutive sakura uses with satch JA?

Snatch JA is 84F, 1.4 seconds. Still close to 1:2.

[TaigaUC]

Sakura Endo has always felt kind of slow to me. Especially the pause after the attack.
Anyway I wouldn't compare them directly for every situation because Sakura Endo is horizontal sweeping and Immortal Dove is Z axis/vertical sweeping.
Also depends on your setup, playstyle and weapons, blablablabla

All I know is I did some TA with Immortal Dove and stuff died super quick.
I hate how slow and floaty the other Dual Blade PAs are, so I was surprised by how quick, efficient and effective Dove is.

[Selphea]

If you want slow and powerful, that's what Jet Boots are for :p Incidentally my favorite build to take into Lilipa UQ right now is a Boots build.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I've historically had beef with sakura end's pause after the attack, but it was tolerable with the ep3 buffs to damage to the point I didn't mind/I could justify using it despite the pause, and the addition of snatch JA just making it feel good to the point I don't complain about it anymore.



All I know is I did some TA with Immortal Dove and stuff died super quick.
I hate how slow and floaty the other Dual Blade PAs are, so I was surprised by how quick, efficient and effective Dove is.

Dispersion shrike should diaf, I know. I been replacing it with zondeel->kestrel when I can for the past week.

[Punisher106]

Only tried Immortal Dove. I'm trying to get used to it, in a desperate attempt to ditch Dispersion Shrike. I heard the new Gunslash PA is really freaking good, and given that I found a level 17 disc for it, I can't wait to try it out.

[Maenara]

Only tried Immortal Dove. I'm trying to get used to it, in a desperate attempt to ditch Dispersion Shrike. I heard the new Gunslash PA is really freaking good, and given that I found a level 17 disc for it, I can't wait to try it out.

Remember that it has quite a few quirks involving pressing shift.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Remember that it has quite a few quirks involving pressing shift.

I only counted two; one from starting in gun mode, the other from starting in slash mode.

[Maenara]

I only counted two; one from starting in gun mode, the other from starting in slash mode.

A third from pressing shift WHILE using gun mode. A fourth from pressing shift WHILE using slash mode.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

A third from pressing shift WHILE using gun mode. A fourth from pressing shift WHILE using slash mode.

That's what I meant.

[Maenara]

No it's not. You very clearly said 'starting'.

[Cyclon]

Edit: 1+1=3... Excuse me, what?

Edit: The lower charging time on swords PAs is almost negligible, but it's good to have I guess. Rising edge is about 0.2s faster, and Guilty break 0.1s. Nova strike seems to be about the same as Rising edge. All of them charge quite a bit faster than before without gear, which is a great change for all of those that use swords without the hunter class congrats to all three of you

[EspeonageTieler]

im loving the double saber pa great at keeping mobs ontop of me still wish they had a decent gap closer tho

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

No it's not. You very clearly said 'starting'.

I meant if you begin the PA from one form or the other, and then press shift.

Enough with semantics. I know what I meant despite what you interpret it as. You're not in the position to tell me what I meant.

[Lostbob117]

... Excuse me, what?

Edit: The lower charging time on swords PAs is almost negligible, but it's good to have I guess. Rising edge is about 0.2s faster, and Guilty break 0.1s. Nova strike seems to be about the same as Rising edge. All of them charge quite a bit faster than before without gear, which is a great change for all of those that use swords without the hunter class congrats to all three of you

You have to consider C-Mode. I don't think it's meant to buff them outside of that.

[FacelessRed]

The Gunslash PA is fun-ish but doesn't really stack up damage wise. I may try it out on my R-atk themed character more.

The double saber PA seems.. not so good. it has range, but in UQ it's use is limited. Damage too low.

Dont use Dual blades can't pass judgement on it.

I haven't gotten the new Combined tech yet, but My force isn't fire and I don't wanna be fire >.< (But it looks good)

Tears Grid is great, as I'm a hunter.

It's a shame I can't really use it with Volg, but what I've been doing since I have increased speed rain is using Vol-speed-tears. And that combo is usually enough to kill a group of Lilipa UQ mobs (so long as they are in a zondeel or something)

Hardest I've hit with Tears is around 200k total (including the small hits) on a weak spot. (Without elemental weakness')

[LonelyGaruga]

You have to consider C-Mode. I don't think it's meant to buff them outside of that.

Uhhh

No. There is nothing about Challenge Mode that makes it exempt from changes to any part of the game.

[Maenara]

The double saber PA seems.. not so good. it has range, but in UQ it's use is limited. Damage too low.
\

Did you press Shift while using it? You're missing out on a massive part of it if you're not pressing shift during it.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

What's the newly buffed ignition parry like? With and without parrying.

[Dycize]

Well for starters, it costs 25PP instead of 35 (thank god).
The 1st swings (where you can parry) received a noticeable power increase, about twice as strong as before I'd say? I didn't feel much change on the parry timing, however, the guard cancelling on the last two hits is significantly better : you can cancel as soon as they start.
Other than that I didn't feel much change.

[FacelessRed]

Did you press Shift while using it? You're missing out on a massive part of it if you're not pressing shift during it.

This is Double saber right? i didn't try it, and when I thought of it, I didn't see anything happen in the chaos.

I'll try it out after I play a few rounds of Infinite Crisis. Thanks for the heads up.

[GoldenFalcon]

The change to Guilty Break is wierd, since it gets the benefit of the next charge level at the start of the animation instead of the end of the animation (which is how the other PA's work)

At least, that's how it was before this update. At max gear, it was impossible to do the chargeless version of Guilty Break.

[EspeonageTieler]

This is Double saber right? i didn't try it, and when I thought of it, I didn't see anything happen in the chaos.

I'll try it out after I play a few rounds of Infinite Crisis. Thanks for the heads up.

its jerks enemies inward and does some damage (still not much) but its very usefull for mobbing in my opinion

[Punisher106]

Tried Tear Grid. Holy shit, that final blow's hit. Did 98k on a Bonta Bearada's core. Also tried Strezwei, doesn't feel too evisceral, even with the shift tricks. I should just try more.

[TaigaUC]

Tried Tears Grid on XH Magatsu.
Was using a 10503 light Trident Crusher as 72/40 Hu/Fi. Full Dex mag, Saiki set. 2074 SATK.
A full Tears Grid finishes just as Volg Raptor detonates.
With WB and on red face weak point, was doing ~15k per thrust (x7) and then ~130k with finisher.
I was getting ~230-250k Banish Arrow detonates, meaning ~500k per Volg->Tears.

So, hits pretty damn hard. Felt like I was always dealing the finishing strike.
Haven't tried it with my 75/75 Partisan-users yet.

It's easy to accidentally go into the third PA slot because of holding the PA button for Tears Grid.
Even easier when you can't see anything from hitsparks covering the screen.

[Maenara]

I miss Chain Volging.

[Remz69]

tear grid could be very nice for TD pugs,
pop a barrier and kill the whole goldra wave by yourself in one PA/45pp, haven't been able to try yet

[Maenara]

XH Goldrahdas have 264k HP each, so that's probably not going to happen.

[Cyclon]

A full Tears Grid finishes just as Volg Raptor detonates.
Try to whiff the first(and maybe second) hit. It's difficult against larger targets but if it's possible to pull off reliably I can see it becoming the norm.Edit: I may have misunderstood. But from what I've seen, Volg raptor detonates just before the last hit connects.

Also nova strike's hitstop seems to have been greatly reduced, when did that happen?Edit: Nope

Re-edit: Quality post.

[Remz69]

XH Goldrahdas have 264k HP each, so that's probably not going to happen.


tested on a gwanada weakpoint
20k * 6 or something i can't coun't for shit
314k on the final hit

i see no reason you wouldn't be able to hit goldras' weakpoint with it, but like i said haven't been able to test

edit: though when i tested that i did proc Tech art JA with and uncharged volg thrown away into the air, so yeah, that was for more than 45pp/one PA, though i don't think you'd need TAJA
and i had buffs (team buff +shifta), dunno if techer or regular shifta

[TaigaUC]

I thought they lowered the Nova Strike hitstop thing a long while back.
Maybe they reduced it even more. Haven't tried using Sword since update.

I'm wondering if I'm only able to get the final hit on Tears Grid because of lag?
On the ship, I tried facing away from comboing a JA'd Volg Raptor into Tears Grid and it doesn't work because the character rotates slowly.

The previous Magatsu, I used Chain Banish Arrow Last Nemesis/Penetrate Arrow/Chase Arrow or Satellite Aim, and they still hit really hard.
Felt like it made a big difference when I got several high chains off in a single run.
I do miss the 4m+ numbers though.

[Cyclon]

I practiced a bit, and it's possible to rotate quickly if you hold down immediatly after firing the Volg raptor, then up the instant Tears grid starts to still get most of the hits in. The timing is a bit strict but it works. Then again if you don't need to, that's good I guess.

As for Nova strike, I'm fairly sure that's a thing and it's from this update, but I can't find it in the patch note, so...Edit: Nope²

Edit:
Uhhh

No. There is nothing about Challenge Mode that makes it exempt from changes to any part of the game.Well, fury gear boost isn't a thing in C-mode, so I think he's right actually. It makes gear building, which can require some commitment, less of a necessity before throwing in charged PAs. Before, it just took too long without gear. So this change is relevant in there.

[TaigaUC]

I haven't used Nova Strike for ages. I'll give it a try later and see if it feels different to me.

[TaigaUC]

Tried Nova Strike. Hit pause seems a lot less than I remember.
Sword seems crazy fast now.

[FacelessRed]

I don't think the Hit stop has changed. Doesn't feel different to me.

[Squal_FFVIII]

Tried Nova Strike. Hit pause seems a lot less than I remember.
Sword seems crazy fast now.

As a longtime sword user, I don't really feel much change with that PA. It does charge a bit faster though due to the gear charge buff it just got.

As for the PA itself (the attacks) it feels exactly the same as before. If you haven't used sword since back in the ep1 days then yes sword will feel different since sword has had major buffs since then.

[elryan]

Made a Ex13 Lv.3 Zero Effort Axeon with Anga Soul + Power III + Shoot III + Ability III + Vinculum just for playing around with Strezwei.

Melee Strezwei + SATK Mag + SATK Unit set = 9k per slash on non-weak points, didn't count how many slash but total is about 40k?

Melee Strezwei + RATK Mag + RATK Unit Set = suddenly far more weaker. 2k per slash on non-weak points.

Ranged Strezwei + SATK Mag + SATK Unit Set = around 4k on headshots.

Ranged Strezwei + RATK Mag + RATK Unit Set = around 10k on headshots.

(As long as the enemy faces you and the head is same level as your character, will score headshots)

Conclusion:
- When used on SATK Mag / Unit, Melee Strezwei hits harder than Sakura Endo (slightly longer animation tho, but with gap closer) and can be used to replace Slash Rave. Shit on RATK Mag / Unit tho.
- When used on SATK Mag / Unit, Ranged Strezwei is nothing more than AOE stagger skill. When used on RATK Mag / Unit, is as strong as Kanran, but faster.

[TaigaUC]

I haven't used Nova Strike for a long time.
Last time I used it, it had a massive hit pause on every hit.
Sword charge times without gear are still pretty shitty.

I tried Tears Grid on Luther with 10503 light Trident, 75/75 Fi/Hu and 2040 SATK.
I don't remember if I had Limit Break up, but I did a 309k Volg Raptor.

Tried using Tears Grid in TA, but it felt like I couldn't consistently get the final strike before Volg detonated.

[Cyclon]

I had no recordings of Nova strike available, so I searched the internet, and you guys are correct, there is absolutely no hitstop difference. The charge time was messing with my brain perhaps? No idea.

[LonelyGaruga]

Edit:Well, fury gear boost isn't a thing in C-mode, so I think he's right actually. It makes gear building, which can require some commitment, less of a necessity before throwing in charged PAs. Before, it just took too long without gear. So this change is relevant in there.

The post I was replying to was suggesting that the changes didn't apply to CM, or had reduced effectiveness. Or at least, that's what it looked like. Not really a very clearly written post.

[BIG OLAF]

So, hey, is the new double-saber PA absolute shit, or am I using it wrong?

[Dycize]

You pressed shift after sending the hurricane right?
I think it's an interesting alternative to Chaos Riser. I've been using it in lilipa UQ to great effect, combined with a double saber that has the random lifesteal potential. I end up with so many damage ticks from the wind and the constant use of the PA that I'm pretty much unkillable. Which helps.

[BIG OLAF]

If you can tell me what button on a 360 controller is "Shift"....

But, no, I didn't hit any buttons afterward.

[milranduil]

It's whatever the same button is that you use to block with hunter weapons, katana, and such.

[Edson Drake]

It seems slightly weaker than Chaos Riser and summons the hurricane that helps rebuild gear quite fast. I still prefer Chaos Riser though.

The new gunslash and Gunner PAs are more useful.

[ArcaneTechs]

If you can tell me what button on a 360 controller is "Shift"....

But, no, I didn't hit any buttons afterward.

Right Bumper

[Xaeris]

I prefer Chaos Riser over Hurricane Sender (such an awful, awful name), but if you're going to use double sabers, Sender is nice for not putting you smack dab in the middle of a bunch of angry goldradhas in TD3.

[Hrith]

Hurricane Sender is quite strong at killing mobs. If you use Hurricane Sender, send a tornado (weapon action) and add in Surprise Dunk, the damage is really big, and you usually get your gear gauge back (if the mob was large enough) even without Soul of the Warrior potential.
I really like this PA.
Note, however, that using the weapon action cancels the combo, so Hurricane Sender should not be your first PA on the palette slot.
Deadly Archer also works rather well in conjunction with Hurricane Sender, but I wish they buffed Deadly Archer in some way (reduced PP cost, I guess, would be really appreciated).

Strezwei is rather decent in either mode, but I was hoping for a gunblade PA that's much better than this at killing mobs. In slashing mode, it's mostly a 1v1 PA that brings nothing new; in gun mode, Additional Bullet rapes it v. mobs.

I wonder if SEGA has made Tears Grid so long on purpose to avoid Volg Raptor combos...

Immortal Dove seems really weak, but I have not tested whether it can hit multiple parts of the same enemy like Deadly Circle and Hatou-rindou can.

Grim Barrage is what I wanted. I wish it had had more power behind it, but I really like it.

Fomelgion is not that much stronger than Zandeon, just much easier to aim with >_> No invincibility + static + force HP = dangerous technique. I still really like it, of course, but fire and dark are my least favourite elements ;s

[Sizustar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84ZbQ_HJe8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u84ZbQ_HJe8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dinuuSJqwcg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dinuuSJqwcg

[Lostbob117]

To note: The small stabs of Tear Grid all together does about 50% of the damage that the big stab will do.

So combining Volg Graptor or whatever it's called with it. Volg will blow just before the last hit. So you're basically doing x2 big hits within the time frame.

[TaigaUC]

I can't seem to consistently get the final hit before Raptor detonates.
Haven't figured out why it sometimes works, yet. Only reason I can think of is lag.

[Poyonche]

"In order to prevent players to abuse the combo 'Volg Graptor + Tears Grid', we increased the lag of our server. Thanks your for your comprehension"

Compensation : Triboost week +1%

[saraishadow]

"In order to prevent players to abuse the combo 'Volg Graptor + Tears Grid', we increased the lag of our server. Thanks your for your comprehension"

Compensation : Triboost week +1%
Dude, that ain't even funny.

[Poyonche]

Dude, that ain't even funny.

This is Sega. :wacko:

[Neith]

Tears Grid seems really strong, it does seem deliberate that it's too long for Volg to work with though. Doing 50k+ without Weak Bullet is pretty crazy (for me at least, I don't have pallettes of 60% 13*s :lol: )

Immortal Dove seems really good too and I can see a use for the Gunslash PA (in both modes) but I don't actually like it myself- I very rarely use a Gunslash and if I do I'm probably using Slash Rave.

Not really tried the others yet.

[wefwq]

"In order to prevent players to abuse the combo 'Volg Graptor + Tears Grid', we increased the lag of our server. Please understand."

Compensation : Free ban to take day off from PSO2
It's okay when SEGA does it!

[Maenara]

Tears Grid seems really strong, it does seem deliberate that it's too long for Volg to work with though. Doing 50k+ without Weak Bullet is pretty crazy (for me at least, I don't have pallettes of 60% 13*s :lol: )

Immortal Dove seems really good too and I can see a use for the Gunslash PA (in both modes) but I don't actually like it myself- I very rarely use a Gunslash and if I do I'm probably using Slash Rave.

Not really tried the others yet.

Try using melee Strezwei to set up Slash Rave. Seems to get you in range for an immediate Slash Rave every time.

[Macmaxi]

(Crosspost from movie thread) More Volg + Tear stuff. Did Assault Buster and Bander, but only first hit of Bander counted. I like Tear.


[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_TMBats_cU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_TMBats_cU[/spoiler-box]

[BIG OLAF]

Hi I'm back.

Similar question to before-

Is the new partisan PA absolute shit, or am I doing it wrong?

[Poyonche]

It's okay when SEGA does it!

Words hurt (; ~; )

[wahahaha]

Hi I'm back.

Similar question to before-

Is the new partisan PA absolute shit, or am I doing it wrong?

You know the answer.

[Lostbob117]

Hi I'm back.

Similar question to before-

Is the new partisan PA absolute shit, or am I doing it wrong?

Hold down the PA button; if you are not.

[TaigaUC]

More like, "Anyone caught detonating Tears Grid will be banned".

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Am I the only one that feels like immortal dove could use more kick to it, like 25% more to the power notation (800->1000 at 17)?

I mean, my 60 ele ideal katana, and 2732 s atk without buffs probably made me set a high standard for damage, but immortal dove doesn't feel too satisfying as Bo/Hu, unless I got 60 ele slave DBs or somethng.

[Punisher106]

I've been doing step attack-Heavenly Kite-Immortal Dove, and it seems to wreck many kinds of enemies. Try doign ti that way. If you use it up in the air, it does a lot more damage.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

If you use it up in the air, it does a lot more damage.

It does the same damage as doing it on the ground. It's just that on the ground it's two hits for 30%+70%, while in the air it's one hit for 100%.

Really feels like it should hit harder for the pleabians stuck with break SD bonus.

[BIG OLAF]

Hold down the PA button; if you are not.

Okay, thanks. Someone else had told me in-game a bit ago, as well.

I do like how SEGA doesn't explain these little 'tricks' in new PAs to players. You just have to figure it out!

That was sarcasm, by the way.

[Kondibon]

I do like how SEGA doesn't explain these little 'tricks' in new PAs to players. You just have to figure it out!

That was sarcasm, by the way.Pretty sure it says as much in the description...

[BIG OLAF]

I don't read Mandarin, so.

[LonelyGaruga]

Run it through Google Translate.

Or fucking experiment a little. Can't be that hard to hold down a button simply to check.

[Zorafim]

I think one can be forgiven for not knowing something only given in text when one cannot read.

[TaigaUC]

I guess Tears Grid can't be a tapping PA because that would break the PA combo system.
Blah.

If it wasn't for that, the final stab could have been a separate PA as well.
Then it'd be a matter of you timing when to do it before Raptor ends.
I think that would be much more interesting.

[nephie]

Okay, thanks. Someone else had told me in-game a bit ago, as well.

I do like how SEGA doesn't explain these little 'tricks' in new PAs to players. You just have to figure it out!

That was sarcasm, by the way.

https://youtu.be/uPy5FYQOI4g?t=31m17s

31:17-32:38


full of detail on how to use it and how it interact with vol graptor. it's been out for long ago... where have you been o.O

it's definately not sega fault, it's your fault not able to read/hear japan... oppss... mandarin

[Rakurai]

I'm not dying quite as much when using Fomelgion ever since I started dropping a Megiverse beforehand.

It's still pretty stupid that you can get killed because of infected enemies deciding to spawn after you've started using it, though.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'm not dying quite as much when using Fomelgion ever since I started dropping a Megiverse beforehand.

It's still pretty stupid that you can get killed because of infected enemies deciding to spawn after you've started using it, though.

Oh noes, something is a threat to a Fo :wacko:

[TaigaUC]

Whenever I use Fomelgion I can't really see what it looks like, where I'm firing, or what I'm hitting with it.
Doesn't feel like it hits that hard, either.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel that it's satisfying to use.
Zandion feels more satisfying, but it suffers from similar issues.

[Rakurai]

Oh noes, something is a threat to a Fo :wacko:

It's a little annoying that it's almost never completely safe to use Fomelgion because of how high committal it is.

Being able to at least cancel the move early with Mirage Escape would be nice.

[Xaeris]

For the kind of absurd screen clearing power it offers, it's only fair. And hell, you can cast Megiverse first and completely erase any risk from the front end of it.

[Kondibon]

Whenever I use Fomelgion I can't really see what it looks like, where I'm firing, or what I'm hitting with it.
Doesn't feel like it hits that hard, either.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel that it's satisfying to use.
Zandion feels more satisfying, but it suffers from similar issues.I've never really had an issue with the damage on enemies weak to the elements they have, but they can be pretty underwhelming on enemies that aren't. That was my biggest complaint with Zandelion when it first came out. "Lightning and wind? What am I supposed to use this on? :I " It's pretty good for shocking falz I guess.

I hope the ice/light one is good for darker bosses though. Otherwise, what's the point...?


It's a little annoying that it's almost never completely safe to use Fomelgion because of how high committal it is.

Being able to at least cancel the move early with Mirage Escape would be nice.I kinda like that about it. You have to time it well and think about how you use it... kinda. Getting hit by random mobs that just spawned on top of you is pretty lame regardless of what you're doing though. :/

[TaigaUC]

I've only tried it on Ultimate Lilipa so far. Probably partly why I can't tell what it's doing.
When they first implemented Zandion, I felt that the purpose of combo techs was to provide variation/distraction from tediously spamming the same shit over and over.
They effectively encourage and reward players.

[Kondibon]

When they first implemented Zandion, I felt that the purpose of combo techs was to provide variation/distraction from tediously spamming the same shit over and over.
They effectively encourage and reward players.Iirc it was mentioned that the combo techs were meant to encourage playing Fo and Te together, which is why they've one Fo element and one Te element. But they kinda did it too late since people were already starting to pick Te up as a sub for Fo.

I think it was also meant to give Tech users, making a lot of use of the pp mag, something like an offensive PB, and it actually gives me something to fall back on when I run out of sources for PP, or to dump on stunned bosses.

I can see what you're saying too though.

[ArcaneTechs]

Grim Parish feels nice, I started using it a lot for quick close in kills.

Whats the trick to the new Double Saber PA? I feel like it's useless as hell especially in Ult.

[Achelousaurus]

TBH I barely even tried out anything besides Strezwei (was'nt there a horizontal circluar efect in the trailer?) and Tears Grid.
Tears Grid is a ton of fun and the damage of the final hit is very high.
Too bad it's 45 pp and cahnging direction is super difficult.
If it was 35 pp and could move like Speed Rain it would be totally epic.

BTW I hear it can't be used with Volg or is no good for Volg?
Cause it is so slow?

[Dephinix]

You have to whiff a few starting hits for the whole combo to take place, or you will miss the last strongest hit, and it won't be worth it.

[Cyclon]

(Crosspost from movie thread) More Volg + Tear stuff. Did Assault Buster and Bander, but only first hit of Bander counted. I like Tear.


[spoiler-box]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_TMBats_cU[/spoiler-box]I like this. That PP cost though...

[LonelyGaruga]

Iirc it was mentioned that the combo techs were meant to encourage playing Fo and Te together, which is why they've one Fo element and one Te element. But they kinda did it too late since people were already starting to pick Te up as a sub for Fo.

Even though that's what Sega said, Techer had always been a very good subclass for Force. Te/Fo, on the other hand...yeah. Sega just doesn't get it.

[TaigaUC]

They really said that? What the hell.
I guess we can expect some Hunter super moves to encourage Hunter as a sub-class.

[Selphea]

Give Gunners and Rangers SUVs ._.

What with the next combination tech being Ice + Light, pretty sure it'll be Paradi Cataract 2.0. It only makes sense that SUVs should come next!

[Lostbob117]

I wish you could turn more with Tear Grid. I wouldn't use it on fast bosses. It's good for mobbing if your team groups them up.

[Superia]

They really said that? What the hell.
I guess we can expect some Hunter super moves to encourage Hunter as a sub-class.

Fighter/Hunter super move that coats all melee weapons in OE photons? Gu/Ra super move that spawns a motorcycle mount with machine guns on it? That would be pretty fun actually.


Give Gunners and Rangers SUVs ._.

Wow, ninja. I'd only accept SUVs over motorcycles if your SUV was like a 4-seater that went really fast so you could clear TAs at hacking speed.

[Selphea]

Wow, ninja. I'd only accept SUVs over motorcycles if your SUV was like a 4-seater that went really fast so you could clear TAs at hacking speed.

Indeed they were ;-)

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es5U9BHJiq8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es5U9BHJiq8[/spoiler-box]

[red1228]

Indeed they were ;-)

[spoiler-box]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es5U9BHJiq8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es5U9BHJiq8)[/spoiler-box]

I do not remember Espada being that good... like, ever. :-o

Then again, I played on the US/EU servers (which died LONG before the JP ones did). I remember it only doing two, maybe three hits. No where near that long or wide of a hitbox tho. When I played, the only relevant SUVs were Sturm (full screen reach & Burn Lv4) or Paradi (fast, decent reach & Freeze Lv4 to set up Jabroga shenanigans).

[Misaki Ki]

I'll only accept this for Ice+Light (1m:51s):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7DDnpw2T68&t=1m51s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7DDnpw2T68&t=1m51s

[nephie]

Even though that's what Sega said, Techer had always been a very good subclass for Force. Te/Fo, on the other hand...yeah. Sega just doesn't get it.

the problem comes from mid ep1 to ep2, where most fo are fo/fi... and fo/te is considered lackluster at that time. heck even my fo/br was considered strange combo by that time because simply fo/fi is doing better at everything (rikauteri and banish was not released yet).

in my opinion, fo/te is good now because the enemy hp is a lot tankier now, which mean pp management is now a thing. and people now not using seitenheise or elder rod or psycho wand which once was the meta weapon... and queen viera is damn hard to obtain now that the limited quest ended.

[Superia]

Indeed they were ;-)

[spoiler-box]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es5U9BHJiq8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es5U9BHJiq8)[/spoiler-box]

Nah dog, that's too weak for that yung Ranger aka the real OG aka WB Slave aka Satellite Jesus.

What I mean is this.
[spoiler-box]
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130227023453/halo/images/e/e2/H4_M12_LRV.png
[/spoiler-box]

20s-30s summon. High speed, massive hunter applied to everyone in the vehicle. 3 seats + a turret position.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

in my opinion, fo/te is good now because the enemy hp is a lot tankier now, which mean pp management is now a thing.

You forgot the fact that element weak hit is now an actual multiplier.

[Z-0]

Elemental Weak Hit was always an actual multiplier, just not for melee/ranged weapons (which was corrected in Episode 2).

Anyway, FoTe is good because Fo is so strong that the extra PP is more useful than the damage.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Elemental Weak Hit was always an actual multiplier, just not for melee/ranged weapons (which was corrected in Episode 2).

Anyway, FoTe is good because Fo is so strong that the extra PP is more useful than the damage.

I remember it multiplying the bonus damage dealt to targets weak to the element rather than the full damage of the attack the target is weak to, making it barely worth mentioning as a damage multiplier.

[Xaelouse]

I'll only accept this for Ice+Light (1m:51s):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7DDnpw2T68&t=1m51s

Ugh if only this game wasn't complete kusoge.

[nephie]

I remember it multiplying the bonus damage dealt to targets weak to the element rather than the full damage of the attack the target is weak to, making it barely worth mentioning as a damage multiplier.

tech-wise it's not changed at all. the changes only apply for melee/ranged which back then only multiply the elemental damage bonus not the full damage just like you said

and even then, does it even better than somehing like wise/brave stance? those stance also have another benefit... no multiple tree which was more appealing

[Poyonche]

I'll only accept bigormous Sabarta falling on the whole pos where you are.

And you would cast the tech with the animation Apprentice use to summon Vibrace in the opening.

[LonelyGaruga]

the problem comes from mid ep1 to ep2, where most fo are fo/fi... and fo/te is considered lackluster at that time. heck even my fo/br was considered strange combo by that time because simply fo/fi is doing better at everything (rikauteri and banish was not released yet).

in my opinion, fo/te is good now because the enemy hp is a lot tankier now, which mean pp management is now a thing. and people now not using seitenheise or elder rod or psycho wand which once was the meta weapon... and queen viera is damn hard to obtain now that the limited quest ended.

>Elder Rod
>Mid EP1/2

Right.

Anyway, Fo/Te was still very viable even at the height of Fo/Fi's popularity. It was never considered lackluster and at the very worst could be called slightly less viable than Fo/Fi. Also, enemies being bulkier actually hurt Force's viability overall, and when SH hit, Force went from top tier to one of the worst main classes in the game, Fo/Te or not. What Fo/Te had over Fo/Fi wasn't simply PP regen, but also Territory Burst, and wind/light/dark masteries. Fo/Fi's advantages over Fo/Te were higher non-weakness damage and higher fire/ice/lightning damage in general. It has no versatility or utility to speak of, it's just damage. Fo/Fi's biggest advantage was definitely not having to match weakness to do good damage, which is actually aided by enemies being more fragile so that weakness damage isn't necessary.

But this is ignoring that Fo/Te was top tier for many months before composite techs became a thing in the first place.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

But this is ignoring that Fo/Te was top tier for many months before composite techs became a thing in the first place.

Which is why I'm now firmly in the 'Fo is OP as hell' camp.

I could accept Fos as they were after ilmegid got rightfully nerfed. Compound techs on top of having every meaningful advantage over other classes (excluding WB for obvious reasons) is just stupid now.

[Perfect Chaos]

If you can't beat them, JOIN them! (So you can help me with getting that last 250 Great Success achievement on crafting. :3)

[nephie]

>Elder Rod
>Mid EP1/2

Right.

Anyway, Fo/Te was still very viable even at the height of Fo/Fi's popularity. It was never considered lackluster and at the very worst could be called slightly less viable than Fo/Fi. Also, enemies being bulkier actually hurt Force's viability overall, and when SH hit, Force went from top tier to one of the worst main classes in the game, Fo/Te or not. What Fo/Te had over Fo/Fi wasn't simply PP regen, but also Territory Burst, and wind/light/dark masteries. Fo/Fi's advantages over Fo/Te were higher non-weakness damage and higher fire/ice/lightning damage in general. It has no versatility or utility to speak of, it's just damage. Fo/Fi's biggest advantage was definitely not having to match weakness to do good damage, which is actually aided by enemies being more fragile so that weakness damage isn't necessary.

But this is ignoring that Fo/Te was top tier for many months before composite techs became a thing in the first place.

territory burst was a joke back then... pre-ep3
and if elemental weakness is that good then why people brute forcing il barta on bosses or il megid in TD which doesn't really support that certain elemental weakness.

not saying that fo/te is entirely bad, it's still a good alternative. but face it fo/fi was on its laurel at that time and its the most popular build around. that's the reason why fo/te need advertising via fused-tech... so more people tempted to try on the class combo itself.
and adding content need preparation, which probably takes more than 2-3 months to be implemented which explain why they're a bit late in the interval between ep3 to ultimate naberius

[Superia]

if elemental weakness is that good then why people brute forcing il barta on bosses or il megid in TD which doesn't really support that certain elemental weakness.

Aren't those techs godly?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

If you can't beat them, JOIN them! (So you can help me with getting that last 250 Great Success achievement on crafting. :3)

Funny!

Maybe if I have meseta to burn occasionally.

[Saagonsa]

il megid in TD

Nobody should be doing this

[LonelyGaruga]

territory burst was a joke back then... pre-ep3
and if elemental weakness is that good then why people brute forcing il barta on bosses or il megid in TD which doesn't really support that certain elemental weakness.

not saying that fo/te is entirely bad, it's still a good alternative. but face it fo/fi was on its laurel at that time and its the most popular build around. that's the reason why fo/te need advertising via fused-tech... so more people tempted to try on the class combo itself.
and adding content need preparation, which probably takes more than 2-3 months to be implemented which explain why they're a bit late in the interval between ep3 to ultimate naberius

Territory Burst was workable pre-EP3. It was still one of Techer's most valuable skills and one of the most valuable skills for techs in general. Also, both Ilbarta and Ilmegid are more useful with Fo/Te than Fo/x because of PP Convert and Dark Mastery skills (+ PP Convert for Ilmegid's 35 PP cost), so those are pluses for Fo/Te and not Fo/Fi, regardless of matching weakness or not...(the answer to your question is because they're noobs that need easy to use techs).

Fo/Fi was evenly comparable with Fo/Te at best, please stop making things up. And FYI, composite techs are still more damaging as Fo/Fi than Fo/Te, so yeah. Composite techs don't actually do what they're advertised to do.

[ArcaneTechs]

Nobody should be doing this
the annoying is I'm STILL seeing people doing this in TD

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

the annoying is I'm STILL seeing people doing this in TD

On XH.

I don't do TD anymore unless I'm hungry for cubes now.

[TaigaUC]

I used Territory Burst all the time before Ep3.

People using Il Megid probably either really like dark or just came back after a hiatus and have no idea that it was nerfed to shit.
Or they think they can keep enemies away from towers just by doing it over and over. Or they don't know what XH is.
Or they are huge Harry Potter fans. They probably saw those Dementor videos and didn't check their date.

Il Barta is different because it can hit ridiculously hard, and if a lot of people are doing it, it stacks and becomes even stronger.


Anyway, Fo is OP but I get bored of it really quickly. I have three maxed out Fos.
I much prefer Ra/Br bow or Fi/Hu anything. Te/xx is boring too, but I enjoy seeing everything instantly die from a single swing.

[ArcaneTechs]

On XH.

I don't do TD anymore unless I'm hungry for cubes now.
i dont do it either unless i need a class leveled up and i end up collecting crystals because i already know the mpa is gonna play bad (99% of the time its bad) when the mpa is actually good, i try

I do not remember Espada being that good... like, ever. :-o

Then again, I played on the US/EU servers (which died LONG before the JP ones did). I remember it only doing two, maybe three hits. No where near that long or wide of a hitbox tho. When I played, the only relevant SUVs were Sturm (full screen reach & Burn Lv4) or Paradi (fast, decent reach & Freeze Lv4 to set up Jabroga shenanigans).
Ares Espada got it's second version in for a very long time before the game shutdown, the only reason you would see minimal hits is if you were using the B rank version of the SUV. Paradi Cataract was the only thing that got nerfed (which it shouldnt have been). But generally everyone had that SUV, it was that good, shame we never got to see PSU JP's servers content on our version.

Also, is anyone gonna tell me the trick to the new DS PA or is it just as bad as I think it is? one hit, sucks in enemies (not very well) and thats it?

[TwistedShaerk]

Also, is anyone gonna tell me the trick to the new DS PA or is it just as bad as I think it is? one hit, sucks in enemies (not very well) and thats it?

To detonate it you just press shift. As a result it needs the gauge so more Meteor Cudgel goodness.

[ArcaneTechs]

To detonate it you just press shift. As a result it needs the gauge so more Meteor Cudgel goodness.
ahh wtf, is the detonation good? even on bosses? or just a novelty PA? i'm trying to find a good DS PA combo setup for mobbing or all around use outside spamming DA on bosses

[TwistedShaerk]

ahh wtf, is the detonation good? even on bosses? or just a novelty PA? i'm trying to find a good DS PA combo setup for mobbing or all around use outside spamming DA on bosses

It does like half of Chaos Riser's damage(max gear Chaos), haven't used it very much so I can't say. Plus I tested with a POS Double Saber so anyone with a good one can give you better values.

Should also point out I have Chaos Riser 1 and Hurricane Sender 17, so that really isn't a great sign unless that suction makes it more viable.

[Maenara]

I hate Hurricane Sender because it requires you to press shift to perform the part of the PA that actually does anything, and when you DO press shift, it instantly resets your weapon palette. What the fuck.

[nephie]

Nobody should be doing this

now... yes
pre-nerf... it was pure evil


Territory Burst was workable pre-EP3. It was still one of Techer's most valuable skills and one of the most valuable skills for techs in general. Also, both Ilbarta and Ilmegid are more useful with Fo/Te than Fo/x because of PP Convert and Dark Mastery skills (+ PP Convert for Ilmegid's 35 PP cost), so those are pluses for Fo/Te and not Fo/Fi, regardless of matching weakness or not...(the answer to your question is because they're noobs that need easy to use techs).

Fo/Fi was evenly comparable with Fo/Te at best, please stop making things up. And FYI, composite techs are still more damaging as Fo/Fi than Fo/Te, so yeah. Composite techs don't actually do what they're advertised to do.

and in the end it really comes back to pp regen
with the enemy hp being lower, pp regen isn't as desired as damage. the only time it is desireable is when you use elysion, but elysion doesn't equal normal fo/te build... it's a special case like niren orochi + break stance now

burst was ok for zondeel on scripted spawn, but it still need to fight against ilmegid spam. burst + resta/ debandcut/ shifta is not really necessary because people mostly already clustered anyway during eq.

[LonelyGaruga]

How dense can you get? Fo/Te had more damage and more PP regen than a Fo/Fi did for Ilmegid. And Ilbarta is borderline useless without PP Convert.

You can insist that PP regen wasn't as important as damage, but that was only true before SH came out. Fo/Fi was not better than Fo/Te ever in the entire duration of EP2. Fo/Fi only had a few months of being approximately equally viable to Fo/Te, and the biggest use it had was TAs. And that had more to do with Step Attack access.

[ArcaneTechs]

and in the end it really comes back to pp regen
with the enemy hp being lower, pp regen isn't as desired as damage.

Did you like, melee things..... for pp regen with your weapon or something?

[Renderless]

Don't think I saw this here yet but in the recent patch, it seems you don't have to press attack for the follow up on melee Strezwei now.

[Maenara]

You never had to do that. You always just needed to be in range.

[nephie]

Did you like, melee things..... for pp regen with your weapon or something?

yep, gunslash range mode.

and since the walking speed was at turtle speed pre eps3, you can get away with natural pp regen when walking from one spawn spot to another

[Renderless]

You never had to do that. You always just needed to be in range.

Oh really? Whoops. Never mind what I said than.

[Hrith]

I hate Hurricane Sender because it requires you to press shift to perform the part of the PA that actually does anything, and when you DO press shift, it instantly resets your weapon palette. What the fuck.It bothered me as well at first, but since Hurricane Sender is so good (except the name), I had to make it work.
My palette is Surprise Dunk -> [another PA you like and that has some range, such as Deadly Archer or Tornado Dance] -> Hurricane Sender.
That way, every time I use Hurricane Sender, weapon action or not, the next PA is Surprise Dunk, which is absolutely perfect with Hurricane Sender. That PA is too good to pass, it completely rapes ultimate. I get my three gear gauges back every time even without Meteor Cudgel.

[TaigaUC]

Tears Grid seems like it works well with Te/Hu.
Not sure if it's better or worse than just swinging Traitor Cage though.

[LonelyGaruga]

Tears Grid uses way too much PP for too little damage to justify over Pick Up Throw, considering Te/Hu should always Zanverse when using Volg Raptor combos. To give an idea, Volg > Skewer > Pick Up has the same PP cost of Volg > Tears, but higher damage (factoring the whiffed hits on Tears to Volg combo with it in the first place). Without Volg, Tears doesn't even compete. Volg > Pick Up is about 15% stronger than Tears, costs 10 less PP, and executes at about the same speed.

I can't really see Tears being all that great for any Hunter combination to be honest.

[TaigaUC]

Hmm. Okay.
I haven't used Zanverse for years. I guess I should start again.
No space on the stupid subpalette though.

Oh, but I don't whiff because I seem to often get the whole thing in before Volg detonates.
Had a 230k detonate on Arms butt earlier as Te/Hu.
I like to pop PP convert when I intend to use it, but of course it doesn't regen while attacking.

[LonelyGaruga]

Not whiffing makes a negligible difference in the damage. Tears Grid is six hits of 5% power and a seventh of 70% power. So each hit up until the last has a power of about 184 at level 17, with the final hit being about 2577 power (which by itself is about 21% stronger than Pick Up Throw in its entirety, but costs three times as much PP).

I'd rather use Slide End or Assault Buster for Falz Arms, since they move around a lot. Nothing like a Falz Arm moving out of the way of a Tears Grid. Plus you can hit multiple Falz Arms relatively easily doing this (particularly Geared Slide End).

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, I only used it when they didn't look like they were moving.
Tears Grid final hit does hit multiple enemies, but it takes forever to come out.

[TaigaUC]

I really don't understand how Tears Grid works.
I somehow had a ~570k Volg Raptor detonation on Luther, using Tears Grid. Normally, I only get 320k at most.
He was moving around so that the initial strikes mostly missed, and the final strike hit for 270k.
Shame I wasn't recording, otherwise I'd double check WTF happened.

[Remz69]

I really don't understand how Tears Grid works.
I somehow had a ~570k Volg Raptor detonation on Luther, using Tears Grid. Normally, I only get 320k at most.
He was moving around so that the initial strikes mostly missed, and the final strike hit for 270k.
Shame I wasn't recording, otherwise I'd double check WTF happened.

volg takes the 1.3 from JA, 1.2 from charging 1.13 from crit latent and 1.15 from crit stike (Fi)

so your variance might come from there

assuming you're Te/Hu and don't have a crit latent, if you charge and JA volg is multiplied by 1.56
for it to blow at 570 means you fed in 365k

270k from the final blow, so if that 5%*6 + 70% is right it means the small hits should have been about 20k
if you managed to get 5 out of the 6 hits in and the final blow it makes sense

[TaigaUC]

Oh, I was Fi/Hu for that one. Sorry, I forgot to specify.
I think I may have had Limit Break and maybe Never Give Up active.
Still, 320k -> 570k is a huge jump.

Yeah, I sometimes get 20k on each normal strike. I don't know why that varies so much either. 8k-20k.
That 570k missed most of the strikes, though.

[LonelyGaruga]

I hear Loser's clock weak point boosts Volg Raptor/Banish Arrow damage for some reason. That could be it.

[TaigaUC]

Maybe that's it. Thanks.

Sorta off-topic, but does Loser have more defense than Falz, and more defense on XH than SH?
Because my maxed Backhand Smashes seem to do less on him than I remember. ~180k at most.
I recall getting something like ~230k-250k on Magatsu and Elder.

[Remz69]

Maybe that's it. Thanks.

Sorta off-topic, but does Loser have more defense than Falz, and more defense on XH than SH?
Because my maxed Backhand Smashes seem to do less on him than I remember. ~180k at most.
I recall getting something like ~230k-250k on Magatsu and Elder.

if it's on the clock
it's not a x2 weakpoint iirc (as in less than that)

and i don't even remember if falz might be more than 2 or not

[LonelyGaruga]

They have higher damage modifiers than Loser's clock core. Loser clock is only like, 1.5x I think.

Elder takes more than doubled damage from striking attacks on the cores of his arm (not the palm though).

[TaigaUC]

It was just before he died. He was in the center and I was throwing out Volg -> Tears.
As he returned to his normal position and went into his next attack (moving in and out), I threw out another Volg -> Tears, towards his clock core.
Most hits whiffed, but the final strike hit and a 270k appeared not long after, so I thought that was Volg detonating.
Then, a few seconds later, a huge 570k appeared on him and he died.

Could have been a lag bug. Server was pretty laggy.

Edit: Oops, I went back to talking about the Tears Grid thing. Sorry, I barely slept.


They have higher damage modifiers than Loser's clock core. Loser clock is only like, 1.5x I think.

Elder takes more than doubled damage from striking attacks on the cores of his arm (not the palm though).

That must be it. Thanks.

[Maenara]

I hear Loser's clock weak point boosts Volg Raptor/Banish Arrow damage for some reason. That could be it.


Maybe that's it. Thanks.

Sorta off-topic, but does Loser have more defense than Falz, and more defense on XH than SH?
Because my maxed Backhand Smashes seem to do less on him than I remember. ~180k at most.
I recall getting something like ~230k-250k on Magatsu and Elder.

It's because Loser's clock works differently than anything else in the game, and applies its 150% damage multiplier after everything else, making it affect Vol Graptor and Banish Arrow. However, when the clock is closed, it also works the other way around, reducing Vol Graptor and Banish Arrow's damage by 80%.

[LonelyGaruga]

Volg Raptor always gets its damage reduced by striking resistant hitzones, but Banish Arrow ignores hitzones.

Given that Taiga hit for 270K and Volg Raptor hit for 570K (111% increase), it doesn't sound like Loser's clock actually increases Volg damage after all.

[TaigaUC]

So confusing. Thanks anyway.