So I was thinking: Where is the line of telling if you're a bad/decent/good player?

[Lostbob117]

There isn't really a ranking system.

[Stickboy]

gears
PA usage
deathcount during that run
damage

iunno

[Sizustar]

Bad - No idea what they are doing, rush off and do their own thing, costing time and trouble for party, for example, in Ultimate, when MPA is fighting Agne, decide to wander off, and lure back a bunch of enemy.
Generally using gear that are not upgraded or have affix, and skilll tree is weird or uneffeciant.
When ask question, only expect their own answer, won't accept other answer.

[Lostbob117]

gears
PA usage
deathcount during that run
damage

iunno

Here's the problem with Damage. Damage doesn't say anything with skill or how good you are in at the game.


Bad - No idea what they are doing, rush off and do their own thing, costing time and trouble for party, for example, in Ultimate, when MPA is fighting Agne, decide to wander off, and lure back a bunch of enemy.
Generally using gear that are not upgraded or have affix, and skilll tree is weird or uneffeciant.
When ask question, only expect their own answer, won't accept other answer.

I don't think rushing off and bringing back mobs is always a bad thing like someone said above this post. Sometimes, it gets them above 250 points in the run. IT's like "Be considerate for their time" or "Be considerate for someone's drops".

[Flaoc]

gears
PA usage
deathcount during that run
damage

iunno

damage is just your affixes and gear.. most good players do have good gear but you can have the most damage in the entire game and still suck

[Vintasticvin]

damage is just your affixes and gear.. most good players do have good gear but you can have the most damage in the entire game and still suck

^ Take your time swallowing this stone cold truth folks.

[branflakes325]

Bad - No idea what they are doing, rush off and do their own thing, costing time and trouble for party, for example, in Ultimate, when MPA is fighting Agne, decide to wander off, and lure back a bunch of enemy.

stop and consider why people do these things

Considering ares weapons are indisputably better and arguably more accessible than slave weapons, Anga drops are more important than completing runs quickly. Especially when Anga is present at the start of an MPA.

[ArcaneTechs]

When people stop doing this:

http://s28.postimg.org/bux3cwo7t/The_Norm1.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/bux3cwo7t/)

http://s28.postimg.org/703eempw9/The_Norm2.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/703eempw9/)

http://s4.postimg.org/fv0c4jh49/The_Norm3.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/fv0c4jh49/)

Also when people stop killing Anga right off in the beginning as the first boss spawn instead of being smart and getting 250pts first then kill

[bhaal]

damage is just your affixes and gear.. most good players do have good gear but you can have the most damage in the entire game and still suck


^ Take your time swallowing this stone cold truth folks.

QFT ppl.

[Bellion]

Meanwhile, people that have shit gear sucks by default! o3o

[Searaphim]

Considering ares weapons are indisputably better

I wouldn't be so sure.

[Flaoc]

Meanwhile, people that have shit gear sucks by default! o3o

usually this is also true! (usually)

[Selphea]

Just find something measurable like par time for TAs or explorables or XQ stages or something else.

[TaigaUC]

I think it depends on the circumstances. Here are some I can think of:

General signs of bad players:
- Wearing non-crafted and non-grinded gear with no affixes.
- Equipment entirely consists of weak +exp and +luck gear (yes, I've seen a specific JP person doing this non-stop for over a year now).
- Literally standing there doing nothing, or sitting on turrets the entire time.
- Picks specific class and never uses their best abilities (eg. Ranger, never ever uses WB)
- Dying non-stop until everyone has run out of moons.
- Joins group-oriented EQ, then runs off on their own and fights alone on the other side of the map.

Signs of bad players in TD:
- Never uses crowd control enemy-grouping abilities like Zondeel, Gravity Point, grenades, etc.
- Trying to solo everything far away from everyone else, wasting tons of time, and then dying.
- Towers undefended, and then destroyed within the first few waves.
- Nobody picking up crystals or using AIS.
- Infected campships allowed to run rampant, kill players and destroy towers.
- Nobody ever cleanses infected sockets or towers.
- Darker particle cannons allowed to grow and fire at towers (definitive sign of fail multi).
- Fighting bosses with their backs pressed to towers, so that bosses attack the tower.
- Using barrier as a counter to bosses instead of pulling them away (barrier has no effect on bosses).
- Decol Maludas left to freely shoot red projectiles into towers for entire waves.
- Time runs out in the middle of each wave, all bosses constantly go home.
- Biblas' bomb detonates and destroys a tower.

Signs of bad players in Challenge:
- They pick up all VR time immediately, when the bar is full.
- Dying waaaaaay too much, especially in the first two missions.
- Using the same single weak weapon for the entire run.
- Trigger traps to summon Mizer every single time.

Signs of bad players at EQ bosses:
- Attacking the wrong places for virtually no damage.
- Crucial break points take literally forever to break.
- Everyone abusing each other over how to play the game (only seen EN people do this, JP people usually whisper others privately to give advice).
- WB is always constantly overridden and placed on completely useless areas.
- EQ time is abnormally long (ie. good Luther = ~5min, bad = ~25min, good Arms = a few seconds, bad Arms = 10 mins)
- When Magatsu is about to die, photon cannons used on flying face bombs (tm) instead of Magatsu's weak point with WB applied.
- At Arms, fighting up north where Elder constantly fires lasers, and dying (seen EN players doing this a lot).
- At Elder, always standing at max distance and constantly getting hit by Elder's lasers.
- Not so much a bad player issue, but the entire multi happens to all be the same class (usually Bouncer).

[Sizustar]

Just find something measurable like par time for TAs or explorables or XQ stages or something else.

But to get short time on TA< you go specific tactic, and that's not usually how you play free explore.

[Flaoc]

- EQ time is abnormally long (ie. good Luther = ~5min, bad = ~25min, good Arms = a few seconds, bad Arms = 10 mins)

see the thing with luther is xh luther im just disappointed with because he dies in 5 mins.. i really wish sega didnt pussy out on the 94 mil hp he was supposed to have

so yea i dont even get mad when luther itself actually gets a bad mpa and takes 20 mins but i wouldnt know that anymore due to me being so disappointed with xh luther that i stopped running it

i mean its great they gave him a proper upgrade but once the xh strat was figured out it was just another sh luther in kill times

im almost certain double is gonna end up like this as well.. would it kill sega to give us a fight thats actually challenging for an eq boss counting our modern gear

[the_importer_]

To the people that goes by how much damage you make, I'd like to see some number behind this. For example, this "main class" with this "subclass" at this level should be doing "X number" of damage when using "this attack" on "this enemy" at "this difficulty level".

If sometimes you hit the hardest in an MPA and sometimes the lowest in another, does that mean that you go from being good to sucking?

[Selphea]

The TA specific tactics are usually done by like, the top 5% of players to shave off the last few seconds to be competitive. But anyone in say, the top 25% can be considered "good" even if they are not competitive level, and the next 25% can be considered "decent", and the bottom 25% of TA times can be considered bad IMO.

[Mattykins]

I guess a lot of it comes down to MPA composition, too. Too few RAs, and there's not enough weak bullets to keep the DPS going, for example. It doesn't matter if it's the top 12 players in the whole world vs. Magatsu; if there's no weak bullet, there's no hope. Or not. Had an XH TD1 run today that was the worst I've ever run that didn't fail outright. Every wave timed out, and even Vibrace had enough at the end and fucked off. On a more positive note, though, the Magatsu mpas in b16 only seem slightly slow at worst, and pretty damn impressive a lot of the time. I haven't had a bad Magatsu in a while.

Also, oh man, don't get me started on bad CQ players. I mean, there's those who don't have the hang of it, maybe die here and there or use bad weapons. I can forgive that. It's people who die repeatedly to everything, set off every laser trap, and seem to go out of their way to completely derail the mpa. I've had to deal with 2 or 3 of those so far, and it's terrible. Makes me wish we could kick people from mpas.

[Xaeris]

Simple metric that works in any game you apply it to: if every player in this party/raid were geared and played to my standard, how would this dungeon/instance/duty/unnecessary-synonym-for-the-same-freaking-thing go?

[TaigaUC]

I dunno, I think XH Luther is how Luther should have been.
It's much more interesting in terms of strategy, action and reaction.
But a battle being lengthy doesn't necessarily mean it's more difficult.
There's a line where it just becomes repetitive.

As a game designer, you don't want players to be so strong that they kill bosses before bosses have time to act (eg. what happens to bosses like Ragne in every multi).
But you also don't want to bore everyone by making the encounter last forever (which can also be the result of not having the right stats/gear/setup).
It's easier to control that kind of situation in games/modes that don't rely so heavily on highly varied progression mechanics like stats, equipment, etc.
Challenge Quest is probably a good example of an easy to control situation, because everyone will always have roughly the same level and gear options.

[Flaoc]

I dunno, I think XH Luther is how Luther should have been.
It's much more interesting in terms of strategy, action and reaction.
But a battle being lengthy doesn't necessarily mean it's more difficult.
There's a line where it just becomes repetitive.

As a game designer, you don't want players to be so strong that they kill bosses before bosses have time to act (eg. what happens to bosses like Ragne in every multi).
But you also don't want to bore everyone by making the encounter last forever.
It's easier to control that kind of situation in games/modes that don't rely so heavily on progression, (ie. Challenge Quest).

i think my issue is its a one and done battle with how short it feels at 5 mins.. doesnt even give luther a chance to use his full arsenal which is sad because xh luther is much better than sh luther

kill him once and thats it.. unless u do that multi char thing

[Squal_FFVIII]

I think spotting bad players isn't that hard.

First off if they are foreigners that can be a good indication of being a bad player. This is not a steriotype either. Sadly it's the truth. Are all foreign players bad? NO! But a good chunk of them are. Also, bad equips pretty much means they are bad too.

Another big sign of a bad player is when a good player tries to share good advice with them, but instead they end up getting butthurt and start flaming you or start calling you names because you simply offered advice to better them.

Bad Players tend to talk a lot during gameplay meaning during TA's and such. An example of this would be a player randomly asking questions and just randomly chitchatting during TA runs.

A few weeks ago I made a TA PT in B31 and 2 JP players joined me along with a "baka gaijin" the gaijin would not stop talking mid runs and just simply slowing everything down. One of the JP players was kind enough to do his best to answer his scrubby questions as best as he could since his english was bad.

He did this through out nab1 and 2 starting lilipia TA I booted his ass because he was just slowing us down. He was also by far the weakest player in the PT. Booting him sped everything up.

Lastly I did mention gear earlier but didn't go into detail.

No one should really have shit gear anymore. 4/5 slot 10* units are ultra cheap now days you don't even need to make it yourself. I constantly see decent 10* units that have all the 4 major affixes to them for like 2-4 mill each! There's no excuse for having shit equips.

Instead of buying that 20M hair style use that to get some decent equips. A decent 11* weapon and a decent set of 4 slot 10* units will go a very long way. You don't need the top tier 13* weapons or top tier 11* units to be good.

[TaigaUC]

@Falco
I guess that's a problem with the stupid EQ system.
I complained about it and gave some suggestions in the enquete.

I told them that most people have a ton of characters, so they try to rush kill bosses.
During EQs, people flood blocks and that causes lag.
I said that what they should do is extend the EQ time to at least an hour, and give people a set number of runs per EQ, like Magatsu or PSO2es' Operation Point system.
That way, people could take their time and there'd be less pressure to rush.
But then there's still the problem of boost tickets ticking away. They ought to do away with those too, but I forgot to complain about them.

[Selphea]

To add to the list of bad players though:

- Sets Autoword/Symbol Chat on death, dies and pops up a speech bubble to block WB aim every 30 seconds, then complains about lack of WB.

[Flaoc]

@Falco
I guess that's a problem with the stupid EQ system.
I complained about it and gave some suggestions in the enquete.

I told them that most people have a ton of characters, so they try to rush kill bosses.
During EQs, people flood blocks and that causes lag.
I said that what they should do is extend the EQ time to at least an hour, and give people a set number of runs per EQ, like Magatsu or PSO2es' Operation Point system.
That way, people could take their time and there'd be less pressure to rush.
But then there's still the problem of boost tickets ticking away. They ought to do away with those too, but I forgot to complain about them.

good points.. its fairly obvious the eq system is bleh.. endgame content you cannot play except when sega says so is just ugh why

[wefwq]

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[Xaeris]

You guys are taking the opportunity to complain about behaviors you (justifiably) dislike to see in other players, but the thread is about how to evaluate oneself.

[Noblewine]

Doesn't talk during a mission or coordinate a strategy when dealing with enemies
How they dress (focuses more on fashion than the actual gameplay)
Scatters enemies with PA's that blowaway/launch enemies. Or launches enemies that can teleport when launched into the air.
Use Over Powered PA's and chain breaks early.
Die too often and have no idea how the game mechanics work.

[TaigaUC]

I think it's okay to use death symbol art/cut-ins as long as you're not constantly dying.
If I feel like my AWs are getting in people's way, I just turn them off.

@Xaeris
Well, in my case I know the things I listed are issues that negatively impact myself and others, so I already avoid doing them.

@Noblewine
I dunno about that fashion thing. I'm very fussy about how my characters look, but I'm still a pretty good player.
In fact, I think it's natural for people to be concerned about how they or their avatar looks. Doesn't mean they can't play well at the same time.
I understand you're trying to easily distinguish between players who don't know how to play because they only play dressup, but it's not so visibly simple or obvious.

[the_importer_]

I got an idea for everyone who criticizes bad players. Upload a video of yourself playing in an MPA and post it here for people to criticize you, if you have the balls of course.

[Sinon]

Instead of buying that 20M hair style use that to get some decent equips.

But... but... I want to please my waifu-character :wacko:

[Selphea]

You guys are taking the opportunity to complain about behaviors you (justifiably) dislike to see in other players, but the thread is about how to evaluate oneself.

I suppose a list of achievements can do it:

Bad -> Decent:
- Consistently solo all SH Explorables
- Solo VH TACOs + SH Nab2
- Solo Tundra XQ Stage 1-5

If a player can do that, they can do dailies and weeklies which means they're past the babysitting stage.

Decent -> Good:

- Solo an XQ stage 61-65
- Solo SHAQs at moderate risk and kill fast enough to maintain PSEs to break even on caps.

Now they can farm Flict/Alter fodder and level 17 PAs.

There's EQs too but once they're Good it should only be a matter of learning some basic mechanics like how to chase the WB and when the bad-looking circles on the floor start to appear

[Kondibon]

Simple metric that works in any game you apply it to: if every player in this party/raid were geared and played to my standard, how would this dungeon/instance/duty/unnecessary-synonym-for-the-same-freaking-thing go?This is kind of how I think of it too. Being able to complete the content, as intended, with a group of people of the same mindset is what I'd consider the bare minimum. This includes playstyle and the like, not just gear choice, premium status, or patience with grind/rng, but I'd give some leway for lacking knowledge. Ignorance isn't the same as stupidity, and even with guides nothing teaches better than personal experience.
Anyone too far from that would need to find their own groups with. If the bare minimum is too low or too strict for you, you should try to make your own groups.

In theory at least. The game makes that more annoying than it has any right to be with so much rng driving progression and such a large gap between the absolute minimum and maximum player potential.


but the thread is about how to evaluate oneself.I don't see where you're getting that from.



- Solo SHAQs at moderate risk to break even on caps.Why include the caps part? That's so rng. D: I had been spamming SHAQs and sometimes I'd get like 3-7 caps 5 runs in a row and other runs I'd get almost 20.

[obsexed]

There isn't really a ranking system.

there is a ranking system... interrupt rankings for TAs and Boss kills & CQ have similar system too.

[Selphea]

Why include the caps part? That's so rng. D: I had been spamming SHAQs and sometimes I'd get like 3-7 caps 5 runs in a row and other runs I'd get almost 20.

I mean that moderate risk will give more caps, so being able to solo at moderate risk will make it easier to break even. Breaking even itself isn't really a metric, that's just RNG. Sanctum consistently rains caps for me though. If it can be fit into the rotation, that makes things easier.

[Superia]

damage is just your affixes and gear.. most good players do have good gear but you can have the most damage in the entire game and still suck

Actually, you can't. If you are in a position where you are always doing the most damage that anyone could possibly be doing, it is inconceivable to me that you could be a bad player.


First off if they are foreigners that can be a good indication of being a bad player. This is not a steriotype either. Sadly it's the truth.

You can get some good mileage out of it, but this is a stereotype by definition.


Doesn't talk during a mission or coordinate a strategy when dealing with enemies
How they dress (focuses more on fashion than the actual gameplay)

There are very few situations where you would need to talk to your group in order to play most effectively.

Having good gear and knowledge of the game as a concept is not opposed to having cosmetics.



I don't see where you're getting that from.

Probably from the title. It could be either, though.

[Alenoir]

I mean that moderate risk will give more caps, so being able to solo at moderate risk will make it easier to break even.

I don't remember this little system being in advanced the last time I ever did any SH ones. Was it added within the last few months or so?

[Selphea]

I don't remember this little system being in advanced the last time I ever did any SH ones. Was it added within the last few months or so?

It was always there.

Higher risk = more spawns
More spawns = more PSE bursts
More spawns + more PSE = more drops
More drops = more caps

[Rehal]

I got an idea for everyone who criticizes bad players. Upload a video of yourself playing in an MPA and post it here for people to criticize you, if you have the balls of course.

Ship 2 problem glad my ship isn't like dis etc etc :D

[Selphea]

PSE on solo SHAQS sucks so bad compared to with 4 players.

Yes it does :( But it still helps with breaking even

Source: Soloed SHAQs for Shift Period 17, got trolled and found Facet Folia 17, Million Storm 17, Ilzonde 17 and a bunch of Siren Glass Hammers before finding it 2 months later.

[Alenoir]

It was always there.

Higher risk = more spawns

...? I thought that only raises the enemy's level, the rate of infected enemies spawning, and the rate of getting rare bosses. Didn't know that increased spawn count.

[the_importer_]

I suppose a list of achievements can do it:

Bad -> Decent:
- Consistently solo all SH Explorables
- Solo VH TACOs + SH Nab2
- Solo Tundra XQ Stage 1-5

If a player can do that, they can do dailies and weeklies which means they're past the babysitting stage.

Decent -> Good:

- Solo an XQ stage 61-65
- Solo SHAQs at moderate risk and kill fast enough to maintain PSEs to break even on caps.

Now they can farm Flict/Alter fodder and level 17 PAs.

There's EQs too but once they're Good it should only be a matter of learning some basic mechanics like how to chase the WB and when the bad-looking circles on the floor start to appear

Keeping up with that same track, how would you rate my performance so far:
http://tinyurl.com/ln5rrgn

[Selphea]

Keeping up with that same track, how would you rate my performance so far:
http://tinyurl.com/ln5rrgn

No timing listed and no videos so all I can say is you're at least decent to good. Whether you're elite-level or not I cannot say.

[Xaelouse]

I don't pay attention to who's bad or who's good in most of the stuff I'm doing, even though it's easy to see a player that doesn't know what they're doing (and that can be solved by just whispering them instead of chimping out about it, crisis averted that easily). It's just silly to worry about these things constantly, it'd drive you mad.

[milranduil]

Keeping up with that same track, how would you rate my performance so far:
http://tinyurl.com/ln5rrgn

add your solo TA times, and you're on the right track.

[Flaoc]

No timing listed and no videos so all I can say is you're at least decent to good. Whether you're elite-level or not I cannot say.

ok perhaps my turn then


bosses at

8:11

22:16

30:19


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJSXj2WNB-c

[Sinon]

ok perhaps my turn then


bosses at

8:11

22:16

30:19

PSO2: Ultimate Naberius Solo Clear - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJSXj2WNB-c)

Nice video ^^

+10 for the Devil May Cry soundtrack :beer:

[Selphea]

ok perhaps my turn then


bosses at

8:11

22:16

30:19

PSO2: Ultimate Naberius Solo Clear - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJSXj2WNB-c)

You have a 10360 Ideal in the first place, I don't think you should have any doubt about where you stand as a player :wacko:

[milranduil]

ok perhaps my turn then


bosses at

8:11

22:16

30:19

PSO2: Ultimate Naberius Solo Clear - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJSXj2WNB-c)

Just watched diabo fight only so far. That was pretty good, but one thing comes to mind. IIRC, diabo's face isn't a weak point, so there isn't much reason to even care about breaking the horn (unless you're looking for fodder, but that is uninfected, not titled and you don't break anything else), so hatou spam by itself would be better 100% of the time instead of mixed with sakura. Small detail though, nice fight.

[AlphaBlob]

Bad = Can't dodge simple boss attacks, dies all the time and complain when they don't get revived, no mag, terrible gear/weapon, terrible skill-tree, don't care about advice, etc.

Decent = Care about their gear and weapon's stats, strive to get better at the game, die sometime but realize it's their own fault, follow tutorials and listen to advice.

Good = Max their gear/weapon, skilled at the game and almost never gets hit, strive to get the max potential for their class, want runs (EQ, TA, XQ, w/e) to be as fast and worth it as possible.

I could go into more detail but I'm sure you get the point, bad player only care about the EXP and Meseta they get to buy costumes and stuff, decent players try to learn from good players so that they can become good themselves and good players want to get the best at everything.

[the_importer_]

ok perhaps my turn then


bosses at

8:11

22:16

30:19

PSO2: Ultimate Naberius Solo Clear - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJSXj2WNB-c)

Great vid, now do that as a Force and I'll REALLY be impressed :p

[Selphea]

Great vid, now do that as a Force and I'll REALLY be impressed :p

There was a player who did actually:

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDXk790Eykc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDXk790Eykc[/SPOILER-BOX]

[the_importer_]

There was a player who did actually:

[SPOILER-BOX]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDXk790Eykc[/SPOILER-BOX]

Now that was hardcore. Once I finally get my 13* Weapon and final Saiki piece, I'm trying that again (first time, it took me 25 minutes to beat the boss with shitty 10* gear).

[Squal_FFVIII]

He's the best because he used Parasite Eve's UB theme! <3 He must be old like me if he played PE back in the day on psx =P

[Z-0]

You can tell if someone is good if they can deal with things themselves properly. It's not black and white to tell if someone is a good player, but it's very obvious to see and you can't just gauge it on a checklist.

I wish I was a good player. ;_;


...? I thought that only raises the enemy's level, the rate of infected enemies spawning, and the rate of getting rare bosses. Didn't know that increased spawn count.
Infected enemies respawn often (with infection count +1, not sure if level 3 infections can respawn), so you do get more spawns indirectly.

[Selphea]

It's the definition of "good". I was thinking Bad -> Decent -> Good -> Great -> BEYOND GODLIKE based on Dreyfus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition).

The basics can be done by a checklist but after that it's harder to tell.

[Kondibon]

EDIT: I find it interesting that gear comes into play at all here actually. It doesn't really say anything about how good a player is. A good player can still have bad gear. I mean, that's the whole point of CQs isn't it?


Higher risk = more spawnsHuh... I never noticed this.



Infected enemies respawn often (with infection count +1, not sure if level 3 infections can respawn), so you do get more spawns indirectly.Oh yeah. :U


You can tell if someone is good if they can deal with things themselves properly. It's not black and white to tell if someone is a good player, but it's very obvious to see and you can't just gauge it on a checklist.I agree kinda. I wouldn't say it's obvious on a single meeting, but if you know someone and they just never get better... Like me. Don't play with me, I suck.


I wish I was a good player. ;_;http://i.imgur.com/himZD0M.gif



add your solo TA times, and you're on the right track.All that would tell anyone is how good one is at TAs considering a lot of stuff that works well in them doesn't apply or is outright BAD in other situations. I:


It's the definition of "good". I was thinking Bad -> Decent -> Good -> Great -> BEYOND GODLIKE based on Dreyfus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfus_model_of_skill_acquisition).
This is actually really cool to me, as someone who fetishizes labels. :Q

[chaoko99]

I got an idea for everyone who criticizes bad players. Upload a video of yourself playing in an MPA and post it here for people to criticize you, if you have the balls of course.

I don't have any points to make really.. but I am up to the challenge. I've got nothing better to do~

[Kondibon]

I don't have any points to make really.. but I am up to the challenge. I've got nothing better to do~Yes do this. Not because of any challenge, but because I like seeing how different people play.
doitdoitdoit.

[Z-0]

All that would tell anyone is how good one is at TAs considering a lot of stuff that works well in them doesn't apply or is outright BAD in other situations. I:
You know, a lot of people say this but I don't think it's necessarily true. In a black and white world, yes, this would hold true as many TA tactics aren't necessarily applicable in the main game, but on the other hand, a lot of them really are. There's a lot of transferrable skills from TA, which is mostly the ability to look at a situation and decide what it best. TA might just be execute XYZ from A to B, but you have to be able to decide what to execute and why.

Furthermore, someone who tries hard at TAs will also be trying hard at every aspect of the game. I see a lot of people throw out the argument "they're just good at TAs", "they're just good at CQs", as if it somehow invalidates someones' player skill, usually to try and bring them down so the person in question saying this makes themselves feel better, but I play with all these players, and if there's one thing I can tell you, they're good at everything.

Any round and round MPA, any mothership/wopal EQ, any TD, any UQ, any AQ, literally anything, they always go far faster and smoother than any other group I've played with. My team is supposedly "just good at TAs", but it's with my team that I do 4-5 Wopal rounds, 4-5 TD rounds, very quick and smooth UQs (although we haven't done these in a while, nobody cares since they're not rewarding), quick AQs with high reward ratio, smooth round and round MPAs, etc. If it really was the case that being good at TAs or CQs just means you're only good at those things, I really wouldn't play with the same people for every aspect of the game.

At the end of the day, being good at TA and CQ does actually make you good at the rest of the game, because there's a lot more transferrable skills in those quests than you might think.

[Mattykins]

Man, I dunno if I could post a vid of me in an mpa. When doing magatsu as my main, I mostly just hide behind the boasts of "duuude look at how much damage I did" when my banishing arrows hit near 800k, but I'm sure I fuck up a lot more than I'd like to admit :c

On the other hand, maybe an outside opinion could help me optimize my bowplay, maybe hit a little higher. Shrug, I'll think about it.

[the_importer_]

I don't have any points to make really.. but I am up to the challenge. I've got nothing better to do~

Tell you what guys, how about I create another topic for this so that we don't spam this one.

[Kondibon]

You know, a lot of people say this but I don't think it's necessarily true. In a black and white world, yes, this would hold true as many TA tactics aren't necessarily applicable in the main game, but on the other hand, a lot of them really are. There's a lot of transferrable skills from TA, which is mostly the ability to look at a situation and decide what it best. TA might just be execute XYZ from A to B, but you have to be able to decide what to execute and why.

Furthermore, someone who tries hard at TAs will also be trying hard at every aspect of the game. I see a lot of people throw out the argument "they're just good at TAs", "they're just good at CQs", as if it somehow invalidates someones' player skill, usually to try and bring them down so the person in question saying this makes themselves feel better, but I play with all these players, and if there's one thing I can tell you, they're good at everything.

Any round and round MPA, any mothership/wopal EQ, any TD, any UQ, any AQ, literally anything, they always go far faster and smoother than any other group I've played with. My team is supposedly "just good at TAs", but it's with my team that I do 4-5 Wopal rounds, 4-5 TD rounds, very quick and smooth UQs (although we haven't done these in a while, nobody cares since they're not rewarding), quick AQs with high reward ratio, smooth round and round MPAs, etc. If it really was the case that being good at TAs or CQs just means you're only good at those things, I really wouldn't play with the same people for every aspect of the game.

At the end of the day, being good at TA and CQ does actually make you good at the rest of the game, because there's a lot more transferrable skills in those quests than you might think.I wasn't saying that people who are good at or try their best at TAs are only good at them. I should have phrased it better. I meant that, as a general barometer, it doesn't mean much on its own (at least not until people get to your level of doing them). I agree that there are skills that transfer, and that it's something to look at. I just think it's silly and short-sighted to only use TA times as the only go-to thing when trying to get a general idea of how good someone is at the game.
I honestly would have said the same thing about any of the game modes, not just TAs.

EDIT: It's like trying to judge a painter's skill by having them draw a still life and saying "Well they must be as good at portraits and landscapes".


Furthermore, someone who tries hard at TAs will also be trying hard at every aspect of the game.For this part I think you're just self projecting a bit. There's nothing necessarily true about that at all. I know that how you play, and I know you surround yourself with like minded people, but that's a really weird point to try and make.

[Naoya Kiriyama]

I wasn't saying that people who are good at or try their best at TAs are only good at them. I should have phrased it better. I meant that, as a general barometer, it doesn't mean much on its own (at least not until people get to your level of doing them). I agree that there are skills that transfer, and that it's something to look at. I just think it's silly and short-sighted to only use TA times as the only go-to thing when trying to get a general idea of how good someone is at the game.
I honestly would have said the same thing about any of the game modes, not just TAs.

For this part I think you're just self projecting a bit. There's nothing necessarily true about that at all. I know that how you play, and I know you surround yourself with like minded people, but that's a really weird point to try and make.

I disagree with that. If people is good with TAs, gives a good measure of how much knowledge of the game a player have. Granted, it's mostly muscle memory, but that's what videogames are about.

It's very hard to believe someone who excels as TAs being a sucky player in MPAs or other modes since the amount of execution of TAs is pretty high and strict

[Kondibon]

I disagree with that. If people is good with TAs, gives a good measure of how much knowledge of the game a player have. Granted, it's mostly muscle memory, but that's what videogames are about.

It's very hard to believe someone who excels as TAs being a sucky player in MPAs or other modes since the amount of execution of TAs is pretty high and strictI guess I'm still not being clear. TAs show a lot, and I'm not saying you can't use TAs for this. I'm saying that you can't tell everything about how someone plays from TAs due to their nature, it's like that with any quest. There are things you can ONLY learn about them from TAs as well though, again, like any quest.

And another thing is, I'm not even talking about high level TA play. I just mean joe schmo average player. I can't imagine someone being super good at TAs and bad at the rest of the game either. I can however imagine someone being pretty good/above average at TAs, but terrible at TD3 for instance.

EDIT: I say this because I personally think I'm better at TAs (in the sense that I run them smoother) than I am 12 man group stuff or XQs.

[Flaoc]

well im fine outside of ta... but my toaster load times aint so hot regardless of settings so even if i actually cared about times (which i actually dont) id probably be able to be good at them. i only do them for klotho and thats it. i get very bored running them so the idea of having to repeat them for good times and practice would just make me puke

plus all you really do is one shot things because its sh anyway maybe xh would be chill for good times

[WEED420BLAZEIT]

let's talk about damage-wise,

i want to make sure if i'm doing this game right or not

for example, slide upper or ducking blow damage to magatsu face with a wb on.

is 130-140k bad or decent?

[TheszNuts]

Damage would be the worst way to judge a person. The number of times I seen someone with a fully done Ares facedesk themselves to telegraphed attacks is just sad.

[qoxolg]

I'd say efficiency is the most important measure, because this game is about killing things as fast as possible, to get more rolls on abysmal drop rates.

Then there is also 'group-efficiency'. Thats where things get more complicated. Especially with pugs.

Not that I am a good or maybe even decent player. I just have a mindset that is looking for efficiency, because I simply don't have enough time to play this game all day.


Oh and about the solo SHAQ thing...
Doing solo bursts in SHAQ's is not very efficient use of your time when you sit on a stack of 300 caps of each type. It's also not very impressive, because from my experience, PSE bursts happen a lot more when you solo. 4-way solo cross bursts are imo just a waste of 5 minutes. For me the whole point of running solo SHAQ's was that it was the only content that gives decent sized spawns when you play solo. Fighting enemies one at a time during a solo burst is the opposite of that.

[Gama]

Have fun, everything else can go fuck itself.



Then there is also 'group-efficiency'. Thats where things get more complicated. Especially with pugs.


i think this is by far more important then being "the solo master"

[Selphea]

i think this is by far more important then being "the solo master"

Party play is important, but it can be difficult to see whether someone is being carried or whether they can stand on their own in a large group. As far as measurability goes, it is easier to remove that variable by using solo performance to gauge whether someone has the basics down at the Bad -> Decent -> Good level before talking about party play.

[Dammy]

Bad - No idea what they are doing, rush off and do their own thing, costing time and trouble for party, for example, in Ultimate, when MPA is fighting Agne, decide to wander off, and lure back a bunch of enemy.

They just getting some points/rank before anga kill... i wouldnt call it bad, i do it myself very often

[reaper527]

there is definitely some class specific points that determine how good someone is. for example, lets say a wild spinbird spin bird appears! (decol malluda).


a bad ra won't wb shit.

a mediocre ra will wb the base and then sat canon him

a good ra will wb the top and then sat canon him, and it will kill it since the sat canon is actually hitting the wb.


a huge part in how good someone is stems from how well they understand the class that they are playing.

outside of that, there are some obvious bad player signs, such as using an AIS as an SCV. (also, the morons sit in front of the ship on the vopar eq killing the malludas instead of killing the orbs on the ship so we can actually continue. it used to be easy to get 3 runs on that eq, but mp's have somehow gotten significantly worse over the last month or so and 3 runs isn't even close to happening).

[TheszNuts]

outside of that, there are some obvious bad player signs, such as using an AIS as an SCV.

I stopped doing all td since I started seeing this, I assume its only gotten worse?

[BIG OLAF]

You know when the Experts of PSO-World tell you what you are, because they just know.

[JaysonL]

Unfortunately, I don't think TA skills aren't as transferable as everyone here makes them out to be.
Being able to get amazing times at soloing TAs or any content in general just means you've have the follow:
1. Decent stats overall (level, gear, mag, ect)
2. Knowledge of the content. Spent the time mapping out the specific TA, remembering what to do exactly for each part.
3. Proficiency of PSO2 combat/control in general. Remember boss patterns to effectively take down said boss in a fast and effective way. (even minor mobs to some extent)

The only one that actually transfers for most content is #1. Once you have endgame stats and everything, they work just as well anywhere. CM is the exception to this.

Regardless of content, #2 needs to be reattained for any new content. Vopar/mothership EQ certainly plays out like a time attack and benefits a lot from remembering exactly what to do. Knowing where enemies spawn in a specific TA will not do you any good when doing content that is not that specific TA. It may help you learn the new content quicker but it does not automatically make you good at new content. Even when only talking about TAs, You can get the best time for any specific TA but get a garbage time on another if you haven't done that TA before.

This is kind of an cross of #2 and #3. Not that big of a thing in TA as most boss fights involve the boss being stunned for 90%+ of the fight or abusing some other aspect of the boss. However, if you look at Boss EQs or ultimate quests and the bosses in them like diablo, being the best at all the TAs won't help you fighting it. You are going to need to learn its attack patterns, its delays, when the actual hitbox on his attacks actually happens and you can only learn those things in quests that it appears in. It pretty much means fighting an enemy repeatedly will make you better at it. IF the same enemy appears in another content, then it will transfer. If not, what do you think?

#3. Of course, just playing the game more will make you better at the game if you are trying to improve, your potential/limit is a different story. Being able to press the buttons whenever you want is important. Being able to combo into the right PAs at the right time is important. Reflexes and reaction. They help in all content but they aren't specifically learnt from TAs. And for TAs, having the right equipment and knowing what to do seems much more important.

With all this, we can see what skills actually transfers out of TA.
#1 is not a skill.
#2 does not transfer out of its own Specific TA let alone TAs in general.
#2/3 Only transfers out of TA for content that the same mobs appears in. And more then likely, you will be transferring these skills into TAs rather then out.
#3 The requirement level of reflexes and reaction for getting a great time in TA is fairly low. If you had worse reflexes or reaction going into it, I suppose it would transfer out. But I feel this isn't going to be the case for most people, especially by the time they attained all the class level and weapons used in those TAs.

Just remembering the first week of CM. There were many players that got great TA times doing CM on Twitch. They were terrible, contributing much less than I was and I don't even play this game frequently. If TA skills transferred as much as claimed here, this wouldn't be the case.

Anyways, I would actually say that if we were talking about CM skills, then I suppose the required reflexes and reaction would transfer out of CM although it depends very much on how much you had when going into it. I didn't do that much of CM but when I came out of it, I noticed that my reflexes and reaction got better. For a decent amount of CM, enemies in it can't be OPAKO'd and bosses can't be cheesed. Also, note that reaction and reflexes are general skills and not specifically attained from TAs or CMs. Equipping a ungrinded 1 star weapon of choice or even bare hands for fist and going to each SH exploration boss would be more viable then repeatedly running CM in terms of improving your reflexes and reaction overall. I feel that PSO2 is very diverse, too much for being good at one part of the game to be significantly better overall. People here claiming a lot of TA skill are transferable seem to me like they are just good at the game overall already and don't see what actually is transferred.

[milranduil]

Let me break it down using music as an example. TAs: (everywhere else)::scales/thirds/etc:full composition. What do I mean by this exactly? TAs, once you've learned what you need to do and when, are all about execution, establishing how to go from step to step, doing your weapon swaps correctly between spawns, and so forth. While very few of the specific comboes you may do like banish + ilbarta on a boss or KCing a specific spawn straight out of a weapon swap after dashing with asagiri (kongou) three times, being able to execute it consistently does carry over to being able to more proficiently execute lots of other strategies, just as being able to proficiently play one's scales enables and improves one's ability to play compositions, etudes, etc.

Example: I've been playing a lot of te/br during mod farming in nab2 lately. Before I started learning/playing newer te/br strats, I was pretty bad at utilizing subpalette for specific tech casting on the fly outside of like 2 (zondeel + banish tech). Now, a few weeks later, I am much, much better at using my entire subpalette for lots of techs on the fly, regardless of content when playing te/br. I'm aware this is only a single listed aspect of play, but I believe I've made my point regarding the relevance of how TAs do display a great deal about a player. After all, how many expert musicians do you know that skip their scales/chromatic/etc. when warming up?

[Macmaxi]

If there are really players who waste their time trying to figure out who the bad guy is in their party, no wonder they are not having any fun. I saw a +8 partizan guy in our magatsu internal group and i just thought it was really funny.

[Squal_FFVIII]

If there are really players who waste their time trying to figure out who the bad guy is in their party, no wonder they are not having any fun. I saw a +8 partizan guy in our magatsu internal group and i just thought it was really funny.

I'm sure that helps for a 4 full runs of magatsu. There's nothing funny about that.

[Macmaxi]

Would be no fun if we got those 4 runs easily now would it. I actually felt motivated to do some actual dps because usually we have some time left on the clock even when we mostly get to play only 10/12 because of dc's

[Psycl0ne]

I never stop and look at what the other player is carrying (weapons/units) I just play and do my part, but I do notice the people who are just standing there doing nothing to help out and the people that don't pay attention to the mini map.

[infiniteeverlasting]

if you can JA with your eyes closed and know you're never going to miss a JA, not even in your sleep. You're good.

/thread.

[Xaelouse]

If there are really players who waste their time trying to figure out who the bad guy is in their party, no wonder they are not having any fun. I saw a +8 partizan guy in our magatsu internal group and i just thought it was really funny.

yeah, this

Also XH Loser dies so disgustingly fast now (first time I did it in months). If Sega doesn't take the game seriously, why should the playerbase

[Superia]

Would be no fun if we got those 4 runs easily now would it. I actually felt motivated to do some actual dps because usually we have some time left on the clock even when we mostly get to play only 10/12 because of dc's

For some people, efficiency is fun etc etc.


If Sega doesn't take the game seriously, why should the playerbase

For various reasons, the creator's feelings towards a product rarely influence that of its users.

[WEED420BLAZEIT]

I never stop and look at what the other player is carrying (weapons/units) I just play and do my part, but I do notice the people who are just standing there doing nothing to help out and the people that don't pay attention to the mini map.

well some ppl(min-maxer they often call themselves) love to peek at other players equipment and go "DUDE LMAO 50 ELEMENT WHEN" or "YOU BETTER OFF WITH 11* BIO WEP or IDEAL WEP 60 LMAO YOUR 12*/13* A SHITE"

look, not everyone got the time to grind like them, just sayin'

[reaper527]

saw someone last night in a uq run with 13* tmg's, 9* units, and saw his death/revive autowords every 30 seconds.

i'd nominate him as an example of a bad player who had some amazing luck with that 13* drop. (can't remember the name off the top of my head)

[Sizustar]

well some ppl(min-maxer they often call themselves) love to peek at other players equipment and go "DUDE LMAO 50 ELEMENT WHEN" or "YOU BETTER OFF WITH 11* BIO WEP or IDEAL WEP 60 LMAO YOUR 12*/13* A SHITE"

look, not everyone got the time to grind like them, just sayin'

It doesn't take that long or that much to grind, affixing might take more time and money.

But grinding has been made easy alot.

[reaper527]

It doesn't take that long or that much to grind, affixing might take more time and money.

But grinding has been made easy alot.

agreed. there is pretty much zero excuse to be using anything that isn't +10 in sh or above.

the only legitimate excuse is if you have a utility weapon (such as all class boots for the double jump) that you aren't actually using for damaging purposes.

not affixing, i get. affixing can be really expensive, and you really only want to affix endgame tier stuff and not the temporary placeholder gear that will suffice until it can be obtained.

[Flaoc]

Nice video ^^

+10 for the Devil May Cry soundtrack :beer:

o/




You have a 10360 Ideal in the first place, I don't think you should have any doubt about where you stand as a player :wacko:

i feel like the only one who doesnt know what 10360 is



Just watched diabo fight only so far. That was pretty good, but one thing comes to mind. IIRC, diabo's face isn't a weak point, so there isn't much reason to even care about breaking the horn (unless you're looking for fodder, but that is uninfected, not titled and you don't break anything else), so hatou spam by itself would be better 100% of the time instead of mixed with sakura. Small detail though, nice fight.

well considering his weakspot is on his tail once broken and how much he doesnt want you hitting that it isnt really an option. horn break was a well why not, im gonna be in his face most of the fight and is an easy target to do consistent damage on, face does more damage than body though ill say and lastly about the hatou and sakura thing i know .. minor detail though like you said


Great vid, now do that as a Force and I'll REALLY be impressed :p

not really into playing fo that much despite taking the time to gear it up, regardless ice techs are really good and ult nab shows that.


He's the best because he used Parasite Eve's UB theme! <3 He must be old like me if he played PE back in the day on psx =P


why yes.. yes i did

[Alenoir]

i feel like the only one who doesnt know what 10360 is
Generally it's grind/element/potential, so 10603 would mean a fully unlocked max element 13*. (In this order because potential wasn't a thing 'till later.)

I see element and potential's order being flipped in English communities here and there, though.

[WEED420BLAZEIT]

It doesn't take that long or that much to grind, affixing might take more time and money.

But grinding has been made easy alot.

err yeah, but my problem is with 60 ele, grinding and affixing are easy if you have the money.

is there any way to get anga weps to 60 ele besides of getting another 13* from anga, hoping it's the same type of wep or cm all the way to increase +1 ele every 180k miles?

[Ryuuguu]

err yeah, but my problem is with 60 ele, grinding and affixing are easy if you have the money.

is there any way to get anga weps to 60 ele besides of getting another 13* from anga, hoping it's the same type of wep or cm all the way to increase +1 ele every 180k miles?

Its +6 every 180k miles.

[Requiem Aeternam]

I wouldn't say I'm a bad player but I'm not a particularly good player either. I've only recently started caring about how much damage I can do and about what gear to use because everyone I play with has very high damage and can solo SHard easily, while I got my arse handed to me by a lot of VHard bosses (specifically the Banthers when the second one comes down). Before I just used the weapons I liked the look of (Chronos Scythe/Nacht for example) but I've started looking at potentials on weapons as well as learning how to affix them.

Unfortunately I'm stuck using Lv6 extend crafted 7-9* weapons (haven't unlocked the higher extend levels yet) due to my abysmal luck with decent drops so that contributes heavily to my damage not being up to scratch right now but I'm trying to make the most of it by at least trying to put decent affixes on them, grinding them and unlocking their potentials if it's any good. Dudu is being completely uncooperative with my Force's gear, specifically the units, so they only have 3 affixes on them ATM (Stamina 3, Tech 3 and Ragne Soul, my fire rod also has Spirita 3 on it). Not too bad but I do want to try and increase to at least 4 slots and to add Technique Boost onto the units when I can afford those. Not even bothering trying to upgrade my Braver's gear as it's really poor in comparison to my FO, and I'm not using my BR much at all ATM anyway.

As for taking advice I'm more than happy to do so as long as it's helpful and not said in a nasty way (I.e. You suck. You should be doing X instead of Y, you noob). I don't take that sort of thing well. If someone is genuinely trying to help me out, and in a nice way, I'll take their advice and suggestions. True, I tended be stubborn at times because I was used to my play style and used the classes with the weapons I liked the best regardless of how poorly they went together but, after trying some of the suggestions I realised that my original class combinations and Skill Trees sucked. Now I take whatever suggestions are thrown my way provided I can actually do them, and that they're helpful. Sadly I can't take any suggestions when it comes to upgrading my weapons. I can't do anything to upgrade them as I don't have Premium and therefore don't have any way of buying better weapons and with my luck I'll be lucky if I ever get anything good.

[Zorak000]

have you broken into 1 million damage yet?

I am almost there myself, I got a 960 vinto off on vibrace during mining base 1 the other day, but there are still a few things I can do in order to push my numbers a bit more to get me into 7-digit land.

oh also as for anga drops, I think anga cycles in different 13*s every week or so. I remember on release anga didn't drop the talis or TMG at all on ship 2 until a week or so after ultimate came out, then it spat them out just as much as the other weapons were before that. and the first set of weapons began to fade out from the findings listing while the second set of weapons were in.

that just looked suspicious to me, dont know if it still works like that

[Saffran]

The thing is though, most of what is considered impressive is only achieved throuh excruciatingly brute force and stupendously high attack power. Because that way, enemies get ridden of in the blink of an eye, at worst in mere seconds for bosses.
But does it really mean you're *good*?
I mean, I can move my player around with the whatchamacallit zonde spell too (I guess right there I disqualified myself...). Mine just doesn't hit for 140k.
I saw a really well equiped person in the despair mission today, was giving out milestones to hit and reminding us of stuffs to do, but ddin't do much himself... well he was rather good with the AIS but otherwise meh.
I guess in my mind the real benchmark would be some sort of solo challenge mode or so. Except I know that it's not really doable, with the sway the missions are designed...

[Sizustar]

The thing is though, most of what is considered impressive is only achieved throuh excruciatingly brute force and stupendously high attack power. Because that way, enemies get ridden of in the blink of an eye, at worst in mere seconds for bosses.
But does it really mean you're *good*?
I mean, I can move my player around with the whatchamacallit zonde spell too (I guess right there I disqualified myself...). Mine just doesn't hit for 140k.
I saw a really well equiped person in the despair mission today, was giving out milestones to hit and reminding us of stuffs to do, but ddin't do much himself... well he was rather good with the AIS but otherwise meh.
I guess in my mind the real benchmark would be some sort of solo challenge mode or so. Except I know that it's not really doable, with the sway the missions are designed...

TD3, is about managing AIS to get a S-rank though.

AIS clear mob, while 1~2 dedicated to crystal hunt, and rest kill boss.

[000111]

I'm no pro here but fun/polite is a bit higher on my priority list. Most of this thread has been a good read as a "what not to do list" though ^^