OMFG! Willy-Nilly Zondeels Are Killing Melees (Annoying)

[Evangelion X.XX]

Okay...

For a long time, this has been one of my serious pet-peeves whenever I play a melee class (especially whenever I play Limit Break FI-Main with *insert-whatever-class* as Sub): inexperienced Zondeel users.

Yeah...

I mean, Zondeels' great and everything, but in the hands of an inexperienced player who just uses it willy-nilly without any care/strategy/consideration-for-the-MPA, it just ends up getting melee players killed.

I'm talking about inexperienced/troll Zondeel users who:

1) Zondeel tons mobs on top of other players, and thereby getting them killed.
2) Zondeel mobs away from where everyone is concentrating their attacks on, thereby wasting time.
3) Do absolutely nothing else except, zondeel, zondeel, zondeel.

Such a headache...

[Dephinix]

Yup, and god forbid you call them out on it. Or zondeeling all the sub bosses in one spot, lol.

[Punisher106]

This salt.

When I play FO, I RELIGIOUSLY use Zondeel, in conjunction with other techs, with talises. If I'm a melee class, and see a FO using Zondeel, my mouth waters, and I unleash a hard-hitting mobbing attack. By the way, there's this thing called Step Attack. Use it to get away from massive groups of mobs.

[Mildora]

Honestly if you aren't the one Zondeeling you shouldn't allow yourself to get hit.
I get hit a shit ton when im the zondeeler but when other people do it I have little to no problem.

[Ryuuguu]

Well, the downside to using limit break is you are very vulnerable. Zondeel is very important for fast clears. If you are having trouble with zondeel you are dragging the MPA down not the other way around.

[Dammy]

zondeeling all the sub bosses in one spot, lol.
i love to do that on LQ
its so funny to see both madulard and casadora die from same satelite

to OP: others are correct, you shouldnt die from it, its YOUR problem
to be honest i would like to kill those limit break+quartz soul+spirita players intentionally just for lulz

[Shinamori]

Why does everyone just bitch on the forum...

[Vintasticvin]

Why does everyone just bitch on the forum...

Cause its hip and cool

[RadiantLegend]

I say there isn't enough zondeels.

[Evangelion X.XX]

I think the critical point was overlooked.

Particularly the "Inexperienced" and "Willy-Nilly" aspects with regard to Zondeel users.

Of course, it goes without saying, mind you, that experienced users who know where to use it (spawn points; away from others), how to get it off from a talis, when to use it, etc. can greatly facilitate the run (for faster/easier runs which means you can spam the run more drops etc.).

It's the users who do it without any forethought, or who don't really know when it's appropriate to use that can make for "bad" runs. And also, Zondeel wars can get pretty bad too; sometimes, it's just best to yield and let the other dude Zondeel.

But anyways, it seems that quite a few people has been "bitchin'" on the forum as of late, because they want to be "hip and cool" lately? Hmm...

I don't think it's particularly bad that people express their grievances (aka: Bitch) in that it may lead to possible solutions, but I think what's important is the way how one goes about it, its approach to the issue at hand.

Edited.

[Rayden]

Yup, and god forbid you call them out on it. Or zondeeling all the sub bosses in one spot, lol.

That's a good thing. It's just like Zondeeling regular mobs: it lets everyone spam their strongest attacks and hit all the bosses. Techers can destroy bosses with wands easily like that.

If you're dying, it's your own fault. You do realise you can see when people are charging up a lightning tech, right?

[Charmeleon]

If you die to a mob in someone else's Zondeel, it's your own fault, not theirs. You should have been paying attention to what the mobs were doing before they all got sucked into that one spot. I've never heard of anything as ridiculous as "inexperienced Zondeel users" getting people killed.

[red1228]

I'll admit to zondeel'ing bosses (that it affects) not always being the best idea... Though if there's two or three Wolgah's piled up on eachother, then the other ten or eleven players SHOULD be zerg rushing the shit out of them for a swift victory.

But otherwise, I agree with other posters. Keeping most/all of the enemies in one spot will ultimately speed things up. Having to chase enemies around is just flat out inefficient. Either stop Limit Breaking all the time or learn how to do so reliably. Stop being a Leeroy Jenkins with only 200 HP. Dodge, Block or put more HP affixes on your gear so you don't die in ONE ENEMY ATTACK.

In short: You say willy-nilly zondeel users are annoying? I say willy-nilly Limit Break users are annoying.

[Mattykins]

My only issue with Zondeel is I can't bring Fo or Te partners with me on Ruins Exp anymore because they seem to be programmed to always Zondeel Zesh while staggered, which apparently works for some stupid fucking reason.

[Evangelion X.XX]

So there we have it: the consensus that willy-nilly Zondeel users are satisfactory in any MPA.

[Asuka~]

And the fact that you might die a bit too much (hence the motivation to make this thread) from that ferocious technique called - dare I say... Zondeel.

[Vintasticvin]

*Jots notes down for Zondeel usage for future TDs etc.* "USE a damn Talis if you're going to be Zonderlimg!"

[KazukiQZ]

My only issue with Zondeel is I can't bring Fo or Te partners with me on Ruins Exp anymore because they seem to be programmed to always Zondeel Zesh while staggered, which apparently works for some stupid fucking reason.
You can actually have tech user NPC that won't use Zondeel (or any other moving target techs, like Sazan and Ilzan). But that require you to ask the NPC owner(s) or do observation of your own.
Those who set their NPC like that (tend to buff/heal, use good tech to deal damage, doesn't Zondeel) is rather rare actually xD

[LonelyGaruga]

I'm talking about inexperienced/troll Zondeel users who:

1) Zondeel tons mobs on top of other players, and thereby getting them killed.
2) Zondeel mobs away from where everyone is concentrating their attacks on, thereby wasting time.
3) Do absolutely nothing else except, zondeel, zondeel, zondeel.

Such a headache...

I don't know why people are telling OP they're wrong when 2 and 3 are legitimately bad things to do. For 2, the whole point of using Zondeel is to group mobs around players so that they can attack them. Not drag them away. For 3, Zondeel should always be followed up with the user's offensive as well. Barring some organized TD runs where the Zondeel user's own offense is completely redundant and a couple other exceptions where they genuinely shouldn't do anything besides Zondeel, but this is obviously not the case in context.

1 isn't really the Zondeel user's fault though.

On an unrelated note, since it was brought up, pulling effects will work on some bosses if they're immobilized or otherwise stunned, like with a flipped Zeshrayda. This also applies to some enemies that are otherwise immune to suction.

[Evangelion X.XX]

@LonelyGaruga:

Thanks for clarifying things up. I was under the impression from the forum that more Zondeel is always a good thing under any circumstances (thus: "willy-nilly" Zondeels, as stated) regardless of when/where/how it was used even if they drag enemies away from everyone else, etc., etc., etc.

[Zipzo]

I don't know why people are telling OP they're wrong when 2 and 3 are legitimately bad things to do. For 2, the whole point of using Zondeel is to group mobs around players so that they can attack them. Not drag them away. For 3, Zondeel should always be followed up with the user's offensive as well. Barring some organized TD runs where the Zondeel user's own offense is completely redundant and a couple other exceptions where they genuinely shouldn't do anything besides Zondeel, but this is obviously not the case in context.

1 isn't really the Zondeel user's fault though.

On an unrelated note, since it was brought up, pulling effects will work on some bosses if they're immobilized or otherwise stunned, like with a flipped Zeshrayda. This also applies to some enemies that are otherwise immune to suction.

I think the reason OP is gettin' lashed is valid.

In an organized MPA his 2 & 3 are justified, where every player is generally expected to play off of one another and maximize their effectiveness based on each other's actions without redundancy.

In a pug though, most people are simply happy to see that anyone is using Zondeel, so it's rather a count your blessings effect more than it is try and criticize the user because they aren't using it in as aware a way that you'd like them to use it. The general impression is simply to work around the Zondeel because it's actually there.

[Evangelion X.XX]

^Are Zondeel users that rare on Ship 2 (assuming you're on that ship at all) when pugging? *Honest question since I'm on a different Ship*

[un1t27]

If you die to a mob in someone else's Zondeel, it's your own fault, not theirs. You should have been paying attention to what the mobs were doing before they all got sucked into that one spot. I've never heard of anything as ridiculous as "inexperienced Zondeel users" getting people killed.

https://d.maxfile.ro/dpszwnundr.gif

[Flaoc]

people zondeel in pugs?

[LonelyGaruga]

In a pug though, most people are simply happy to see that anyone is using Zondeel, so it's rather a count your blessings effect more than it is try and criticize the user because they aren't using it in as aware a way that you'd like them to use it. The general impression is simply to work around the Zondeel because it's actually there.

This is pretty much equivalent to putting Weak Bullets on Elder's thumbs and saying "at least there's a Weak Bullet", though.

I mean yeah at least there's Zondeel, but that's really no excuse for people to not even try to use it right.

[Evangelion X.XX]

@Agent Falco:

Frequently, on Ship 7, yes.

I didn't realize that Zondeel was a rarity on Ship 2. If that's the case then I can totally understand that just having a Zondeel-er around would be a God-Send... and like what Zipzo said, it's a "count your blessings" thing.

[Bellion]

I've found more Ares weapons than the total of FOs and TEs using Zondeel in TD1 throughout my playtime in PUGs. I'm wondering if some of them even know spawn points or not, because they sure as hell will nuke other players' zondeel rather than doing it themselves.

Outside of TD EQs, there are plenty enough of zondeels around in S2.

[Rayden]

It's not like you can really tell if you're pulling mobs away from other players anyway, given that a lot of the time monster positions aren't in sync across multiple players and are just done client-side. I've seen it a lot where enemies can even show up in completely different rooms for different players.

Besides, even if someone is trying to attack a particular monster, I personally think it's more important to have the enemies all in one place for all 12 players to attack them simultaneously, or just for me to destroy them instantly with my wand, instead of leaving them scattered just so that one guy can try to land his Over End on one enemy before it moves.

[emeraude]

@Agent Falco:

Frequently, on Ship 7, yes.

I didn't realize that Zondeel was a rarity on Ship 2. If that's the case then I can totally understand that just having a Zondeel-er around would be a God-Send... and like what Zipzo said, it's a "count your blessings" thing.
On 2, there's...some use in XHLQ. In SHLQ there's not much.

I think there's a mentality of wanting to nuke/kill more yourself rather than gathering mobs? Like in TD1, you'll fall down the ranking if you're the zondeel guy (unless the MPA can't kill at spawn point), maybe some people would rather see the points?

[TaigaUC]

Honestly, I use or hang around Zondeel with the expectation of surviving through it.
I don't think I'd use Limit Break + a close range weapon when dealing with Zondeel'd mobs.

If you're melee and feel it's a big enough issue, there are some things you can do from your side:
- Get better units (Saiki is nice, and Gunne triggers are still readily available)
- Up your stamina (900 - 1000+ HP seems nice) and have some blow resist (maybe 12%+)
- Use long range melee weapons/PAs (eg. instead of Knuckles, try Partisan Speed Rain)
- If you have to use weapons like Knuckles, try some knockdown/stun PAs (Slide Upper, Surprise Knuckle, Quake Howling)
- If you're getting knocked down a lot, Massive Hunter can be of some use.
- Have a Mag with HP A and keep it fed so that it'll likely heal you if you take a hit.

[Zipzo]

This is pretty much equivalent to putting Weak Bullets on Elder's thumbs and saying "at least there's a Weak Bullet", though.

I mean yeah at least there's Zondeel, but that's really no excuse for people to not even try to use it right.

It's really not equivelant because the former is simply playing to his own screen, possibly without consideration for the positioning of the rest of his team or the positioning of mobs on other peoples screen, while the latter is simply the wrong thing to do no matter how you slice it, that's an actual lack of encounter mechanic knowledge.

[LonelyGaruga]

But the former is also simply the wrong thing to do no matter how you slice it. It isn't like it's hard to Zondeel in the first place. Just go to a group of enemies and charge Zondeel around the center. This avoids pretty much every problematic thing about Zondeel, or at least minimizes the odds of having something happen.

I mean really, Zondeel is easy to use. It just requires a little bit of thought. Is that too much to ask for?

[Dephinix]

Honestly, I use or hang around Zondeel with the expectation of surviving through it.
I don't think I'd use Limit Break + a close range weapon when dealing with Zondeel'd mobs.

If you're melee and feel it's a big enough issue, there are some things you can do from your side:
- Get better units (Saiki is nice, and Gunne triggers are still readily available)
- Up your stamina (900 - 1000+ HP seems nice) and have some blow resist (maybe 12%+)
- Use long range melee weapons/PAs (eg. instead of Knuckles, try Partisan Speed Rain)
- If you have to use weapons like Knuckles, try some knockdown/stun PAs (Slide Upper, Surprise Knuckle, Quake Howling)
- If you're getting knocked down a lot, Massive Hunter can be of some use.
- Have a Mag with HP A and keep it fed so that it'll likely heal you if you take a hit.

Love all the attacks earlier disregarding OP's post. Moving on from that.
I use Saiki, and that might be the only reason I've survived from pugs that love to zondeel about 15 times during one E-Trial, no exaggeration, literally just pulling around the map, and usually what seems to be JP players given the time I used to play on.

When I'm trying to use a single volg combo on a boss, it's troublesome, and for an optimal partisan user, you use LB as much as you can. There's no reason you shouldn't unless someone is spamming zondeel, I've had no problems with anything else in the game. Yeah, enemies don't sync right, but guess what? Players sync close enough. ^^;

Using speed rain changes nothing when someone decides to zondeel on top of you. I wish I had an up to date gpu just to showcase the stupidity that goes on. I don't do this kind of shit on my Te/Br.

Does nothing against 3 caterdraans someone decided was a good idea to group together. (Yes 3, there were 2 different e trials for caterdraan, SEGA)

Lost two points are just lol. I won't respond to those out of sincerity.

[final_attack]

Well, personally I don't mind people doing Zondeel only ..... o-o Probably wanted to do support role (mostly Zondeel and Zanverse, occasional Resta Shifta Deband Megiverse). It's still okay for me (I usually stalk keeping eye on a support player like that if I noticed them, wondering where he/she will cast Zondeel, so I can move there and dish out damage ^^; ).

As long as it's not ..... cast Zondeel - move 1 or 2 step - cast Zondeel - move 1 or 2 step - repeat until all mobs are gone. Made my attacks missed T-T Saw it done like that sometimes in pugs (I mostly play with pugs), by melee-range Rod Fo (maybe not used to talis or didn't have talis at all) .... not sure why it goes that way though, since Fo's so strong at killing mobs o-o Leveling sub-class maybe .......

I also don't really mind they cast Zondeel on top of me, since my equipments are Attack + HP build (Melee, Ranged, Tech .... usually focused on attack and then HP / resistance. All of my units are crafted to +100 HP too (Highest max PP I got atm is 114, I think .... and that's because Tian-set got +10 PP bonus o-o My Fi's at 105 PP too o-o ))

But yes, not really good if it's cast on top of other people, since it seems more common to see people with PP build than HP build o-o Better not risk it, I guess.

[Zipzo]

But the former is also simply the wrong thing to do no matter how you slice it. It isn't like it's hard to Zondeel in the first place. Just go to a group of enemies and charge Zondeel around the center. This avoids pretty much every problematic thing about Zondeel, or at least minimizes the odds of having something happen.

I mean really, Zondeel is easy to use. It just requires a little bit of thought. Is that too much to ask for?

But the bad that can come of an "improper" Zondeel isn't near as deliberate as flat-out Weak Bulleting a non-weak bullet-qualified target.

As stated earlier, anyone who's been playing this game long enough knows mobs often are not positioned the same on everyone's screen especially when movement is involved (think an incoming TD wave), often you'll see mobs teleporting and all sorts of weirdness. I see this all the time and I have JP latency. Zondeel "mistakes" can simply be a collateral effect of using the spell period that you can't reasonably expect every single player to work around at every moment. I think most people understand this, which is why the majority of the responders in this thread have the "work around the Zondeel" sentiment flowing.

You're right, Zondeel isn't hard to use, but inversely it also isn't hard to work around a non-optimal Zondeel, and thus, the "issue" is rendered an irrelevant problem to most people (except the OP in this case).

[Dephinix]

The thing with me is, they're not optimal techers, but because they are using zondeel, 70% of this thread is just eating it up like cake on a diabetic sunday. Just no. Everything has a purpose and a better way to do it, just because you use something that's awesome, doesn't mean you are awesome. Pretty much reiterating what Garuga said.

[Selphea]

I haven't seen a lot of badly placed Zondeels in LQ. Usually it's like Zondeel -> melt -> Zondeel -> melt.

But I do try to avoid the lower blocks. Ran once. WBed Chrome and somehow Persona died instead - while it seems like I practically soloed Chrome with three WBs. Then some area boss - I think Meduna - took three WBs to take down while it seems like everyone was busy chasing Org Blan diving into the ground. And they could never make up their mind where to run. A single run took almost 25 minutes when I usually get it done in 12 so yea, never ran in a lower block ever again.

[Zipzo]

The thing with me is, they're not optimal techers, but because they are using zondeel, 70% of this thread is just eating it up like cake on a diabetic sunday. Just no. Everything has a purpose and a better way to do it, just because you use something that's awesome, doesn't mean you are awesome. Pretty much reiterating what Garuga said.

You can't play everyone's character for them and you also can't force everyone else to care as much about optimizing their skill usage as you. If you want hyper optimization with no mistakes or missteps then play in organized MPAs, this is essentially why complaining in the first place is pointless. There's no rule that says a person needs to use any ability the way you want them to unless it's your MPA and their membership within it hinges on them doing so.

I doubt anybody is running around in MPAs thinking "I'm awesome simply because I'm using Zondeel, who cares how I use it!". This is just a ridiculous assertion with no logic attached.

[TaigaUC]

Well, I mean, if someone Zondeels on top of you, just move and Speed Rain.
The game is designed in such a messy way that players are supposed to adapt and adjust to other players sucking.

What I complain about most is when even at my best, I'm still forced to resign to suckage because of other players being terrible.
In those cases, there's nothing I can do and I end up feeling completely helpless and screwed over.
I think those kinds of complaints are completely justified.

In general, before complaining about others, at least try to do what you can from your own side (as long as it's reasonably attainable).
I mean, I don't think we should have to jump through ridiculous hoops to cover for other people being shit.
Especially when a lot of those people seem to be intentionally slacking on purpose.

[Evangelion X.XX]

Okay forum, I sincerely appreciate all the comments/opinions/advice. It was nice to get everyone's perspective on the matter.

Thanks.

With that being said, I'm pretty much finished with this thread; I have gotten what I needed to know from it. However, if the forum would like to continue engaging on this topic, feel free to do so.

[wefwq]

250% mad

[Selphea]

Some people probably do have their brains on autopilot after farming LQ for hours.

[DrCatco]

Some people probably do have their brains on autopilot after farming LQ for hours.

Oh yes, I've suffered that. I'm a zondeel user, and I usually go solo to AQs. Today, after 3 hours of aqs, I was trying to zondeel -> step ... in the lobby ^^;

[Dammy]

Oh yes, I've suffered that. I'm a zondeel user, and I usually go solo to AQs. Today, after 3 hours of aqs, I was trying to zondeel -> step ... in the lobby ^^;

its not so bad
teammate has a dream where he was doing quad dashes with daggers at his work in office

[wefwq]

its not so bad
teammate has a dream where he was doing quad dashes with daggers at his work in office
So that he work twice as fast and being more productive? that's a great use of dagger quad dash.

[milranduil]

I've found more Ares weapons than the total of FOs and TEs using Zondeel in TD1 throughout my playtime in PUGs.

:lol: ty for the ab workout

[Azure Falcon]

It's not my fault if you decide to stand under where I'm charging a Zondeel just to limit break a Micda, I'm positioning myself wherever I need to be to pull in the maximum number of enemies so we're not having to waste ridiculous amounts of time as everyone chases down all the stragglers. As for dragging enemies away as you're attacking them, having 10 enemies melt instantly rather than watch someone Over End a single Bonta is far more effective, especially as I'm following that Zondeel up with a Moment Gale to destroy the pack myself.

Bosses are a case by case basis, a bunch of Rockbear aren't a threat, neither really is Tranmizer + a mob of enemies, but Nepto and Mal are far too dangerous to pull together.

I'm not saying all Zondeel users are amazing, or that I do the best job, but from the perspective of a Techer it'd be a nice if other players would have some consideration and pay a little attention to their movement rather than continuing to try and be the lone wolf hero.

[ArcaneTechs]

They can't set my Zondeel off anymore, I'm not complaining but the lack of people actually doing Zondeel when needed, is probably the only thing I can complain about, like getting enemies and Wolga away from TD towers instead of using Ra/Gi Foie on them since that isn't helping the tower out much

[Dephinix]

You can't play everyone's character for them and you also can't force everyone else to care as much about optimizing their skill usage as you. If you want hyper optimization with no mistakes or missteps then play in organized MPAs, this is essentially why complaining in the first place is pointless. There's no rule that says a person needs to use any ability the way you want them to unless it's your MPA and their membership within it hinges on them doing so.

I doubt anybody is running around in MPAs thinking "I'm awesome simply because I'm using Zondeel, who cares how I use it!". This is just a ridiculous assertion with no logic attached.

Hehe, you're funny, :wacko:
I kind of feel all the Te/Bo do at least. Actually, now that I think about it, it was only Te/Bo doing this in those Chaotic Tranq MPAs. If you couldn't tell from my first post, I was just joking and complaining half-heartedly, I could honestly care less, because like you said, If I really wanted 4-5 runs, I'd make a MPA. We don't really know eachother, so I'll just leave it at that.


It's not my fault if you decide to stand under where I'm charging a Zondeel just to limit break a Micda

If a player decides to give you a back rub where you are charging, then yes, this makes sense. Someone charging and setting down multiple zondeels, honestly just pp burning, and then decides, "Hey, let's throw this on 3 other players", does not. :-?

[Noblewine]

Did someone mention cake? 0=

[Dephinix]

Yes, all the cake you could ever want, right now on Block 8! Come get stuffed!

[AlVaRo0515]

cake? where? :wacko:

[SakuRei]

There's always a tactic not to dive when you're sure that you'll live inside a mob gang bang. It's not a matter if the force user uses Zondeel most of the time, it matters where you put or position yourself and also to know the right timing to handle the mob crowd.

You are also to blame to be reckless if you dive inside the mob, not to mention you're using a Fighter main with limit break.

second, bruh, there are just guards, roll dodge (knuckles). Dark Souls dodging and blocking will help how to time it out.

And no, I'm not a force user, but a melee class user (Hu,Fi,Br,Bo) and I know how to time myself, not diving and screaming YOLO whenever there's a mob crowd that will blame results on force users that they don't know how to initiate or set.

[Dark Emerald EXE]

I......dont think ive died from.jumpinh into a zondeel spam....of course if i did it was on ultimate.......and even if it isnt that would be my fault ><.


The purpose to kill em all in clumps right to speed up the death rates and hopefully keep the pse burst to go FOREVER!!!!! (best ive seen was 5-6 but that was once)

[Gama]

This salt.

When I play FO, I RELIGIOUSLY use Zondeel, in conjunction with other techs, with talises. If I'm a melee class, and see a FO using Zondeel, my mouth waters, and I unleash a hard-hitting mobbing attack. By the way, there's this thing called Step Attack. Use it to get away from massive groups of mobs.


this.

use kucnles, see everything die as you break several faces at once.

[GHNeko]

Threads like this give me an appreciation for Premium.

I seriously dont have issues with Zondeels in the 1st and 2nd XH blocks lol.

If anything, a lot of the time I find mobs being zondeel'd into my Gekka Sakura combos.

true bliss.

[WEED420BLAZEIT]

huh ppl use limit break for mobs? in lq mpa?

but why?

[GHNeko]

huh ppl use limit break for mobs? in lq mpa?

but why?

to clear the quest faster.

it's bad enough sometimes your mpa takes 20 mins to clear the LQ on XH.

I generally average around 15 mins; I can understand people LBing frequently to get their times down to 12mins or so.

A 5 minute difference per LQ means saving several hours of grinding for the 13*s.

[wefwq]

huh ppl use limit break for mobs? in lq mpa?

but why?
Probably they're using it when a boss spawned on the map, well if they're using it against mob and get zondeel'd to oblivion that still means the deadguy are brought his problem himself.

[Kayarine]

I personally like LBing whenever I get the chance to activate Crazy Heart PP regen, partisan burns a lot of PP imo. But I still try to pay attention to people charging lightning techs around me so that I'm positioned properly for zondeel.

[Dephinix]

That's a main point for me, I'm almost always fully aware what's around me when I LB, but I'm not doing that because of enemies, but because others around me. Fighters, and other melee classes really, have to do this all the time. What does a Force or Techer do in that situation? They already know what's going on, what upsets a Force or Techer that a melee class causes? War Cry, if that? I mean, what's better, the class that one shots mobs alone, or a class that needs zondeel, smacks, 4-5 casts, etc? I'm not saying I don't appreciate zondeel, but, please, just use it intelligently?

[wefwq]

That's a main point for me, I'm almost always fully aware what's around me when I LB, but I'm not doing that because of enemies, but because others around me. Fighters, and other melee classes really, have to do this all the time. What does a Force or Techer do in that situation? They already know what's going on, what upsets a Force or Techer that a melee class causes? War Cry, if that? I mean, what's better, the class that one shots mobs alone, or a class that needs zondeel, smacks, 4-5 casts, etc? I'm not saying I don't appreciate zondeel, but, please, just use it intelligently?
they don't gave a single fuck because they cast their stuff from distance while melee class are forced to adapt otherwise people cry because their class don't play well and sega have to change things around

[Dephinix]

Idk, I guess that's more of what I'm getting at then. Respect your fellow mpa members, so to speak? I try not to upset other players when I play, and playing every class and multiple combos just further adds to the experience behind that. I very rarely do to others what I would hate done to me.