Power creep and 12* trading

[dingophone]

So I've been tihnking more and more about 12s been tradable, and how it relates to the meta. The more I think on it, the worse for the game it seems over all honestly. There's already a problem with weapon diversity, and any rare under 11 (for the most part) is considered junk. What happens to 11s now? Will we be seeing only 12 and 13 weapons?

Plus, what happens to 10* and 11* weapon prices? Much less lower rarity. I don't know if any of this is accurate thinking, but it certainly seems like an iffy direction...

Any thoughts?

[Flaoc]

So I've been tihnking more and more about 12s been tradable, and how it relates to the meta. The more I think on it, the worse for the game it seems over all honestly. There's already a problem with weapon diversity, and any rare under 11 (for the most part) is considered junk. What happens to 11s now? Will we be seeing only 12 and 13 weapons?

Plus, what happens to 10* and 11* weapon prices? Much less lower rarity. I don't know if any of this is accurate thinking, but it certainly seems like an iffy direction...

Any thoughts?

the difference between 11* and 12* isnt that big at all tbh

however 13* is a different story...

[BIG OLAF]

This game's been 'Power Creep' since Day goddamn One.

Waifu Sim with a dash of "arms race"-style combat updates.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but people need to call a spade a spade.

[Dephinix]

Right, there are only a few 12 stars I would use over the many 11 stars out there, them being a 12 star doesn't change much. The only one I even care for is the Quna Boots, but even then I can only care so little.

[Shinamori]

Quna Boots, Evil Katana.

[Mattykins]

12*s? son I already have a full loadout of 13*s. Get with the times lol

[Xaelouse]

You will still see crafted 11* and lower stuff because some of that stuff still does good damage, have desirable potentials, etc. Sega is actually doing an okay job at the power creep, definitely the least of the issues.

[Mattykins]

Yeah, to be fair, it's not that bad. I've played games where I'd gone on hiatus for a couple months, and when I came back, my buds were all "You need to get the new gear or no one will ever party with you."

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

So I've been tihnking more and more about 12s been tradable, and how it relates to the meta. The more I think on it, the worse for the game it seems over all honestly. There's already a problem with weapon diversity, and any rare under 11 (for the most part) is considered junk. What happens to 11s now? Will we be seeing only 12 and 13 weapons?

Plus, what happens to 10* and 11* weapon prices? Much less lower rarity. I don't know if any of this is accurate thinking, but it certainly seems like an iffy direction...

Any thoughts?

The real power creep is 13*s since they tend to beat just about everything under them without even having a potential.

Tradable 12*s isn't doing much to the game compared to what 13*s already did.

The power Creep with 13*s is a tolerable degree since it's just enough to make players want them. Most players gave up on 12*s when we got tradeable 11s. I'd say SEGA did it to encourage players to actually want them, unlike the marginal upgrades (if any) a 10->11, or 11->12 provided.

In short: 10-12 are more or less equally inferior in the face of 13*s. The minor differences on their average power matters very little. It really doesn't matter much between useing a dio kalcisma, boulay arl, or orochi agito for example.

[the_importer_]

My crafted Divine Amaterasu with 40 Grinds and 50 Light and does more damage on Darkers than my Evil Nochiuhau with 40 Grinds and 35 Light, it's sad when you think about it.

[Kondibon]

Personally I think most of the game's power creep comes from new skills, PAs, and increased level caps rather than gear.

And honestly, 11 and 12* stuff has been around for a while, making it tradable doesn't really add any power creep, it just makes them more accessible (and even then only for premium players...).

[Dephinix]

My crafted Divine Amaterasu with 40 Grinds and 50 Light and does more damage on Darkers than my Evil Nochiuhau with 40 Grinds and 35 Light, it's sad when you think about it.

Unless you're not a force with element conversion, this is a pretty bad comparison.

[the_importer_]

Unless you're not a force with element conversion, this is a pretty bad comparison.

Yes and yes. Not to mention that element boosting potential is almost not comparable to most potentials.

[Cyber Meteor]

My crafted Divine Amaterasu with 40 Grinds and 50 Light and does more damage on Darkers than my Evil Nochiuhau with 40 Grinds and 35 Light, it's sad when you think about it.

I've always thought that the main problem of the 12*s was their potential that doesn't really compete with 10-11*. You either got the same potential on a lower rarity weapon, or you got some 11* with better potential for that weapon category. The only exception is Niren Orochi but this one can even beat the 13*s DB, seriously....
So i personnally think they introduced 13* too soon, while we didn't even got at least 4-5 12* for each wepons type (and some still have less 12* than 13* like Gunslash and Knuckles), so they put the good potentials on them rather than on the 12*s, and they became "the weapon to hunt for" even before 12* could make his place and now, the main reason you'll want a 12* is because of similar potential than 10-11* but better look (at least most have this)

[un1t27]

http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/MI.gif

[KazukiQZ]

My crafted Divine Amaterasu with 40 Grinds and 50 Light and does more damage on Darkers than my Evil Nochiuhau with 40 Grinds and 35 Light, it's sad when you think about it.
Compare it when Evil rod is 50 light for clearer result. It's losing 7.5% damage just by not having max ele.

[the_importer_]

Compare it when Evil rod is 50 light for clearer result. It's losing 7.5% damage just by not having max ele.

Well if I do a rough math, at best, it will match it, but that's only for anything with Light weakness. As soon as I put with it up against my Cuiplow (which is exactly like my Divine Amaterasu but with fire instead of light) and replace Darkers for Natives, it's gonna be weaker again.

Elemental Weakness + Elemental Conversion + Elemental Boosting = Massive Damage IMPO

[Punisher106]

At least it give me a better shot at getting an S&Y than praying I'm in a good XH Magatsu MPA, as well as that 1 in a million chance of it dropping it.

[KazukiQZ]

Well if I do a rough math, at best, it will match it, but that's only for anything with Light weakness. As soon as I put with it up against my Cuiplow (which is exactly like my Divine Amaterasu but with fire instead of light) and replace Darkers for Natives, it's gonna be weaker again.

Elemental Weakness + Elemental Conversion + Elemental Boosting = Massive Damage IMPO
Then, you'll need a 50 ele Fire Evil rod to compare with Cuiplow xD
Or, compare it with 50 ele Fire Bert Rodan, due to same potential as Cuiplow.

[the_importer_]

Then, you'll need a 50 ele Fire Evil rod to compare with Cuiplow xD
Or, compare it with 50 ele Fire Bert Rodan, due to same potential as Cuiplow.

Uncrafted, Bert Rodan at +10 does 1072, my crafted Cuiplow +10 does 1130 (and yes, a crafted Bert Rodan would do the same damage at 1131).

Anyway, the point is that if you're already a master crafter for ★10 tech weapons and are willing to add some DEX to your units and weapons, then ★10 Force weapons can give out the same or more damage than ★11 and ★12 weapons which are more expensive, harder to find and cost more to grind (the fact that you fail more often with bigger loses).

There's also the added bonus of seeing enemies on XH hard melt in front of you when you're using your ★10 weapon while someone is struggling with his ★12 weapon for the same type of enemy that just gives you a happy feeling inside.

I shit you not, in the LQ, when ever we get the duo of Org Blan and Biol Meduna, the others usually starts going after Org Blan while I go 1 on 1 with Biol Meduna. I usually kill Biol Meduna before they are done with Org Blan, that's just funny as hell.

[KazukiQZ]

^My main point is, it's unfair to compare 50 Light Amaterasu with 35 Light Evil rod. More so with 50 Fire Quiplow vs. 35 Light Evil rod, due to element difference. The Evil rod will always come out weaker than both Amaterasu and Quiplow.

In fact, 50 Light Amaterasu vs. 35 Light Evil rod, Amaterasu is around 6.7% stronger than Evil rod. But if Evil rod is 50 element, its damage is just 0.3% weaker than max crafted Amaterasu, but with added bonus of 90-100% damage variance + 10% PP recovery from potential.

And of course, it's the feeling of your crafting investment is worth it =w=

[LunaSolstice]

The only 12 star weapons that interest me are Sarce Punisher and Boots of Serafi lol

I'm curious of what the prices of these will be.

[KazukiQZ]

Boots of Serafi: Judging by the location it drop, I'd say 'Elder Pain' tier xD

Scarce Punisher: not so much, but still rare due to almost nobody doing Nab UQ. That could change with the LQ soon tho.

[final_attack]

I'll ..... just hope Resta's Talis is kinda cheap >_>

[Alma]

^that one has ancient oath...
comparable to *13 ares and slave in UQ if it has ultimate buster in it.

not gonna be cheap :wacko:

[final_attack]

Ah, too bad then .... just wanna get 1 for Resta purpose only (for use as GuRa) :wacko:

[GuardianGirth]

At the end of the day Ultimate will mostly likely always be our endgame. I think people underestimate the power behind certain 12 stars + ultimate buster.

[Poyonche]

What is that ? Oh no ! It is a Spirit Collector God Hand. May the Darkers tremble before it's incomparable power ! :wacko:

jking, don't hit me pls.

[nguuuquaaa]

Let's guess Queen Vera is going to be cheap or not :wacko: :wacko:

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

At the end of the day Ultimate will mostly likely always be our endgame. I think people underestimate the power behind certain 12 stars + ultimate buster.

Endgame for farming drops that is.

The fact ult buster is not transferable to 13s is a sign that endgame won't be ult for a very long time.

[Shinamori]

Super Ultimate!?

[Poyonche]

Or maybe Ultimate Ultimate Quest !?

Ultimate Base Defense : [Despair] :0

[isCasted]

If they could call regular difficulty "Extra Hard", we can expect next Ultimate to be called "Actually Ultimate".

[Zipzo]

I don't know, one part of me knows that they plan to support this game for up to 10 years, but the other part of me sees our current 13* options as having a bit of ..."finality" to them.

It's the big final rainbow colored star on the rarity graphic. I see us getting other areas of ultimate (hopefully all, eventually) difficulty for sure, and they will likely be tougher (just like forest ultimate in PSO1 is easier than Ruins ultimate in PSO1) and be given other 13* drops, but I'm having a hard time imagining the kind of logic hoops they'll have to jump through to give us more difficulties past ultimate. I mean they re-skinned all the mobs a'la PSO1, and in the same sense, I'm wondering if the true level cap is near. I think ultimate AQs would provide a pretty neat challenge, could you imagine high risk ultimate AQs? That'd be fun. Removes the mongoloid-nature of the MPA zerg, and gives us something we can really test our meddle in.

Or there could be "Super Ultimate"...I suppose that's also a possibility.

[Shinamori]

Well, we have Amdusica, Wopal, and Harukotan left. My guess is that 14☆ and 15☆ weapons will drop in ultimate quests.

[Cyber Meteor]

I doubt 13* is the "final" stage, considering they went up to 16* rarity in Psp2i. Also, some weapons icons of Genesis weapons were datamined, and it's not impossible we'll get them as the first 14* (considering Zieg's event in MB 3-2...), and not incompatible with the Huey's genesis WL being given as reward for web panel (we had to elect him as favorite char for that ^^).

mmmm, Ultimate Harukotan......, what i really can't figure out is how the ULT toy darkers will be considering Bonta is already as troublesome as some ult mobs (if they're like 5-6 on you or if you let one touch you) and the Kuronia trailer showed more new toy darkers that just seemed even more dangerous.

[wefwq]

I doubt 13* is the "final" stage, considering they went up to 16* rarity in Psp2i. Also, some weapons icons of Genesis weapons were datamined, and it's not impossible we'll get them as the first 14* (considering Zieg's event in MB 3-2...), and not incompatible with the Huey's genesis WL being given as reward for web panel (we had to elect him as favorite char for that ^^).

mmmm, Ultimate Harukotan......, what i really can't figure out is how the ULT toy darkers will be considering Bonta is already as troublesome as some ult mobs (if they're like 5-6 on you or if you let one touch you) and the Kuronia trailer showed more new toy darkers that just seemed even more dangerous.
Personally i found that kuronian causing more problem.
If they make their way to ultimate, i'm really sure as hell lots of kicking and smacking will be a daily routine of the quest.