Buying Meseta, would it break the PSO2 economy?

[the_importer_]

Let's face it, there comes a time when you just don't want to quest for cash, you want something right now in order to buy something from the player stores or to grind/craft/affix a weapon or unit.

One of the most common ways to get cash quickly is to buy AC Tickets and hope to get something valuable. On average, with 12 tickets, I'll get at lease 30 millions worth of stuff to sale mainly because I normally get 1 lobby action or a few equipment lab items with high resale value.

Of course, AC Tickets are a form of lottery, you could end up with crap that will barely get you 5 millions, so hence why I ask this question. If you could bypass the lottery concept and simply buy Meseta using AC, would it potentially break the economy?

Please state a reason behind your response, simply answering Yes or No is not helpful.

[Kondibon]

AC scratches put new items into the economy, many of which only come from them. Meseta already has many sources of being aquired ingame.

For an example of how buying ingame gold/money/etc could directly affect the economy look at gaia online. = w=

[Anduril]

I believe so, since if you could buy meseta directly, there would be no reason to buy AC scratches for profit, thus a drop in the amount of AC scratch items on the market, and thus inflation increases to worse levels than what we already have.

[the_importer_]

AC scratches put new items into the economy, many of which only come from them. Meseta already has many sources of being aquired ingame.

For an example of how buying ingame gold/money/etc could directly affect the economy look at gaia online. = w=

Not familiar with gaia online, could you tell us what happened when they allowed players to buy in-game currency with real world cash?

[emeraude]

Look at SEA. Not saying it doesn't happen in JP, but I know RMT is pretty prevalent over there, if even just on Ship 2 (personally know people who do this and have been suspended, but not before fucking up the economy.)

Selvaria Long is listed for 200 million. Foot Wing for 150mil. LAs regularly go for 90-150mil. Not a lot of players scratch, people have massive amounts of money, inflation skyrockets.

[Kondibon]

Not familiar with gaia online, could you tell us what happened when they allowed players to buy in-game currency with real world cash?
Literally everything in the player trading, more or less ended up with 3 extra zeros on it. The only way to get involved in the economy at that point was to buy the gold directly or buy cash shop items to sell. It got so bad that they basically had to increase the gold yield from everything else, add a bunch of ludicrous gold sinks and add some relatively common items that anyone could get but would be in high demand.

Gaia isn't a game so this doesn't prevent people from just continuing as normal on the forums, but imagine if that happened in PSO2. Tacos would be rendered useless because you'd end up making more money selling 1* fodders, and all the mesetta sinks would have to be increased to compensate, and anyone who isn't premium or gets a constant supply of 3 day shop tickets won't be able to buy stuff anywhere as easily.

All of this hits new players REALLY hard.

EDIT: That's not to say it can't be done well if it's like say, GW2 and based on the current economy and relatively restrictive. If it's a fixed amount then it'd cause too many problems.


EDIT2: Some more details I left out. The gold buying was for limited times, not always, but the gold basically stayed in the economy. Even after things stabilized and they increased most of the gold sinks, literally any time they released another "Flinn's plunder" (the thing with the gold in it), there'd be a price spike in the market and the prices of everything would double. >_>

[kuromechan]

as long it's not actual RMT then it's ok

[Kondibon]

Just for reference the gaia thing wasn't RMT. It was a cash shop item that gave you a random (but insane) amount of gold. So no, I don't think that matters as far as economy goes.

[yoshiblue]

If things get too bad. Just strike down every price by having an NPC called Seiyu or Wakana sell everything at an unbeatable price. Because unbeatable "supply lines".

[jooozek]

generate meseta with real money? fuck no
exchange meseta for ac with players? thats ok

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Buying AC for scratch items to sell does not put money into the economy. As a matter of fact, it does the opposite. #workingasintended

[red1228]

We are already seeing Lobby Actions start at 40mil.
I don't know about you guys, but I'd very much rather NOT have items start at 150+mil & only get worse once the scratch is over.

[Tenlade]

Let's face it, there comes a time when you just don't want to quest for cash, you want something right now in order to buy something from the player stores or to grind/craft/affix a weapon or unit.

One of the most common ways to get cash quickly is to buy AC Tickets and hope to get something valuable. On average, with 12 tickets, I'll get at lease 30 millions worth of stuff to sale mainly because I normally get 1 lobby action or a few equipment lab items with high resale value.


RMT is a a scam that harms a game from both the developer's side and the players's side.

RMT's use two methods of obtaining money:
1: using bots to farm ludicrous amounts , which floods the economy with money, and causes runaway inflation

2: stealing passwords from people who dont use OTP, take all the account's money, and selling anything that isnt bound to the player.

Runaway inflation means the only way to afford more items is to give even more money to the RMTs to have enough to afford anything, which takes money away from AC scratches and sega to develop the game, and screws over people who don't have the money.

And even if you think people who get hacked should have secured thier account better, We still shouldn't be giving money to the hackers doing it,or encouraging to steal ingame currency to sell.

Pso2 already had a problem from bots farming items to vend early on, and its was causing inflation the moment it started. Its why vend prices are low now, and the main income is a capped amount of client orders per day and week.

Don't supprot RMT if it happens again, get AC scratch instead. It'll help sega who's making this game, and whomever you sell the resulting costume or ticket to, will appreciate it.

[KEERIK]

Not at all! Inflation is a good way to make sure everyone has lots and lots of money! It doesn't matter if the economy is ruined and new players are left facing an increasingly cruel market as long as you have a big number to look at! Remember: "Pay to win" has the word "win" in it! That's pretty neat!

Inflation is also useful for balloons! KEERIK likes balloons.

[sol_trigger]

WHY WOULD YOU BUY MESETA LOL

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

AC scratches put new items into the economy, many of which only come from them. Meseta already has many sources of being aquired ingame.

For an example of how buying ingame gold/money/etc could directly affect the economy look at gaia online. = w=

I was on Gaia and I can attest to this. Giving away insane amounts of Gold for real money can seriously screw with prices.

[Espri]

Not familiar with gaia online, could you tell us what happened when they allowed players to buy in-game currency with real world cash?

Germany post WW1, pre Hitler.

[Chdata]

RWT trading between normal players is just fine as long as there's a real reputation system in place like Steam and paypal.

buying from botters is never okay, but trading from normal players should be fine even if botters exist, so long as botters don't get any traffic.

RWT doesn't hurt economies at all. Illegal bot farming does.

[Chdata]

RMT is a a scam that harms a game from both the developer's side and the players's side.

RMT's use two methods of obtaining money:
1: using bots to farm ludicrous amounts , which floods the economy with money, and causes runaway inflation

2: stealing passwords from people who dont use OTP, take all the account's money, and selling anything that isnt bound to the player.

Runaway inflation means the only way to afford more items is to give even more money to the RMTs to have enough to afford anything, which takes money away from AC scratches and sega to develop the game, and screws over people who don't have the money.

And even if you think people who get hacked should have secured thier account better, We still shouldn't be giving money to the hackers doing it,or encouraging to steal ingame currency to sell.

Pso2 already had a problem from bots farming items to vend early on, and its was causing inflation the moment it started. Its why vend prices are low now, and the main income is a capped amount of client orders per day and week.

Don't supprot RMT if it happens again, get AC scratch instead. It'll help sega who's making this game, and whomever you sell the resulting costume or ticket to, will appreciate it.

RWT isn't a scam. Buying from suspicious sellers is, such as those that use illegal trainers / bots (especially to obtain ms).

If I were to sell 10m meseta, it's RWT, but I didn't bot or hack anyone.

Making botting/hacking profitable for those who do it will lead to runaway inflation as they make more and more throwaway accounts to milk the system.

Trading with real players will have little effect on the economy because these aren't the type of people who will create hundreds of accounts to try and make a business of it. If a normal player happened to save up a lot of meseta and have nothing to do with it but sell it, it's not going to hurt anything - unless you're saying that whenever any player at all in this game makes meseta, they are hurting the economy.

If you buy from a bot/hacker, the money goes to them. If you buy it from a legitimate player, there's a chance the player who has so much meseta that they can sell it off, is buying premium from SEGA. It could also go to them, but it isn't much of a problem because they aren't causing any major dents in the game.

Afaik, these bot/hackers in any game are the ones that are most likely to accept your payment, but then not trade you in-game.

A real player can be bound to more social ties and burdens that create a level of trust and honor they may desire to uphold. Though that doesn't mean they won't scam you.

[Searaphim]

Germany post WW1, pre Hitler.

This. And at least they could use the money as fuel to heat their houses.

And make toys: http://images.bwbx.io/cms/2014-01-09/econ_germany03__01__630x420.jpg
Oh look how filthy rich these kids are (sarcasm): http://www.schillerinstitute.org/economy/phys_econ/2012/0630_hzl_building_europe/weimar_hyperinflation_Children_Stacking_Money.jpg

You can't burn mesetas

Gotta love inflation

[RibbonSoft]

Meseta already has many sources of being aquired ingame.

This is debatable. There are only two RELIABLE sources of meseta in the game for non-premium users, and that is TACOs and extreme quests. My Shop is unreliable because it relies on RNG for a chance to even get a pass (needless to say I have never seen one). I think there should be more ways to get meseta in the game.

At the same time though, I don't believe buying meseta is a good idea. I agree with everyone else here in that it would break the game's economy. I saw that happen in the original Guild Wars. There were so many bots, you could never tell what the hell was going on in the chat window.

[Chdata]

Nope... there's 3 reliable sources for non-prem. 4 if you count merching over time.

Again though, bot farm sellers are what breaks economies. Not trading with regular players.

Runescape used to have an enormous problem with bots. You couldn't skill or farm monsters because bots occupied 100% of every world's farming locations.

Then Jagex fixed it, they managed to make the anti-bot technology to get rid of them.

And RWT still occurs. The only thing thats gone is botting farmers. Now RWT is pretty much just players trading and the game even supports it because you can buy bonds for real money. The bonds can either be used for membership, or sold for in-game currency, and they go for a good amount.


To put it in persepective:

Every multiplayer game on steam with items is FULL of RWT.

They even released the Steam Market to augment it.

[KazeSenoue]

I believe it would break the economy, but I also think it wouldn't if done right. Guild Wars 2 allows you to buy in-game currency with paid currency (and vice-versa), and the economy is fine.

[SlN]

Yes it would break the economy

[Kondibon]

This is debatable. There are only two RELIABLE sources of meseta in the game for non-premium users, and that is TACOs and extreme quests. My Shop is unreliable because it relies on RNG for a chance to even get a pass (needless to say I have never seen one). I think there should be more ways to get meseta in the game.


What I meant was meseta being generated and added to the economy. Meseta from my shops doesn't count in this case because It's already in the economy and just being circulated. But I was including EVERY source of meseta generation, not just every source of large amounts. This includes every meseta drop, mesetan, npcing crappy items, and any CO that gives meseta, not just TACOs. It's not about people being able to reliably be able to get money on a personal level it's about how much is coming into the economy in general.

[SlN]

The price of ac items would go up along with weapons, everything would go up in price. Dailys wouldn't mean anything, tacos wouldn't mean anything. The only people that would be able to afford anything would be farmers/people who purchased meseta.

[RibbonSoft]

Nope... there's 3 reliable sources for non-prem.

Oh... what's the third one? The only ways I know of is TACOs and extreme quests.

[Anduril]

Oh... what's the third one? The only ways I know of is TACOs and extreme quests.
Daily Orders give a decent amount for the amount of time put into them, like the 60K meseta kill X-amount of a lv.1+ enemy ones or the A-rank whatever mission ones; typically from those I get ~500k (including meseta drops) on a single character per day from just doing them while getting FUN from Friend Partners.

[Chdata]

Oh... what's the third one? The only ways I know of is TACOs and extreme quests.

It's not as good now due to deflation, but FUN can get you enough shop passes to do dumps of the expensive loot you're bound to obtain every once in a while. Also +1 grinds used to be worth a lot more - which are very common from FUN Scratch.

There's tricks to getting more shop passes too, I tried what he said in the guide once so far, but it did have results.

It may not sound reliable because this is more of a long term thing, but it is good.

[Chdata]

The price of ac items would go up along with weapons, everything would go up in price. Dailys wouldn't mean anything, tacos wouldn't mean anything. The only people that would be able to afford anything would be farmers/people who purchased meseta.

This is proof that bot farming will ruin economy, not RWT ruining economy.


By proof, I mean a likely theory. Not literally proof.

[RibbonSoft]

It's not as good now due to deflation, but FUN can get you enough shop passes to do dumps of the expensive loot you're bound to obtain every once in a while. Also +1 grinds used to be worth a lot more - which are very common from FUN Scratch.

There's tricks to getting more shop passes too, I tried what he said in the guide once so far, but it did have results.

It may not sound reliable because this is more of a long term thing, but it is good.

I disagree. This relies totally on RNG. I have never seen a single My Shop pass through FUN after spending thousands upon thousands upon thousands on it. No, My Shop is not a reliable way to get Meseta.


Daily Orders give a decent amount for the amount of time put into them, like the 60K meseta kill X-amount of a lv.1+ enemy ones or the A-rank whatever mission ones; typically from those I get ~500k (including meseta drops) on a single character per day from just doing them while getting FUN from Friend Partners.

I'm not for sure what you are talking about here. I've never seen a DO pay out this much unless it was one of those "kill x99 enemies to get max reward" crap. Too bad the enemies you usually have to hunt are hard to get unless you spam Time Attack all day which in that case I have better use of my time.

[Chdata]

Maybe if you spend 10k fun at a time, my shop passes will seem rarer as within 10k FUN you might not get one.

I usually spend them every 50k and get 3 rather consistently.

That tip about FUN slot grouping seems to have helped too though.

Again, it's a long term thing.

Otherwise you may as well say merching is unreliable, because you don't know how.

[RibbonSoft]

Maybe if you spend 10k fun at a time, my shop passes will seem rarer as within 10k FUN you might not get one.

I usually spend them every 50k and get 3 rather consistently.

That tip about FUN slot grouping seems to have helped too though.

Again, it's a long term thing.

Otherwise you may as well say merching is unreliable, because you don't know how.

Okay, so how much FUN at once is required before the My Shop pass actually shows up? 50k? 100k? 200k? I have waited to spend enormous amounts and then spend but I still see nothing. Sorry but it's bs. It's all RNG. As I said before, I have never seen it once. You're just one of those that have awesome luck. I wish I had that kind of luck with RNG, and in real life.

I will re-iterate: My Shop is not reliable. Unless obviously like you and a few other people you have some incredible luck to get these My Shop passes. Otherwise, for people like myself you have the worst luck in anything, they never show no matter how much we spend.

[Chdata]

No, you're just pessimistic and letting it cloud your judgement. How much FUN do you spend at once? Have you spent total (approximately)? Entirely zero shop passes? Do you always spam the same slot on the card?

[RibbonSoft]

No, you're just pessimistic and letting it cloud your judgement. How much FUN do you spend at once? Have you spent total (approximately)? Entirely zero shop passes? Do you always spam the same slot on the card?

No, it's called being realistic.

I have spent a maximum of 500k in one sitting, never spamming the same slot. No shop passes. Ever. Period. Used a ton of Excubes to do that too, quite a waste.

[Chdata]

I'm being realistic. But you're extremely unlucky apparently.

You sound like the guy who cried that +10ing a 10* always costs him 10m no matter what even during grind boost weeks.

However this is only the results of 2 people, which means nothing.

We'd have to have a lot more people post their results.


Well, I have one friend who has results similar to me, and Arksenth with also similar results.

[RibbonSoft]

But you're extremely unlucky apparently.

At least you've got that right. I am probably the unluckiest bastard on the face of the planet. I always get the worst result when it comes to anything that is random chance. And I'm talking IRL as well here, not just games.

[Senshi]

Perfect world has real world money / ingame conversion. It's in the auction house, so price does fluctuate, used to be (years ago) 1 usd = 1mil.

In pso2 things already cost millions, so it could become untenable, but there's a lot of factors involved.

[the_importer_]

At least you've got that right. I am probably the unluckiest bastard on the face of the planet. I always get the worst result when it comes to anything that is random chance. And I'm talking IRL as well here, not just games.

Oh please, pretty sure I've got more bad luck than you. Do a search for my old Saiki Set topic.

[Alenoir]

I disagree. This relies totally on RNG. I have never seen a single My Shop pass through FUN after spending thousands upon thousands upon thousands on it. No, My Shop is not a reliable way to get Meseta.
I don't know, I'm personally sitting on 50 shop tickets and I've been playing since alpha 2. Full time premium so these tickets have no uses to me whatsoever. 126 room tickets in comparison.



I'm not for sure what you are talking about here. I've never seen a DO pay out this much unless it was one of those "kill x99 enemies to get max reward" crap. Too bad the enemies you usually have to hunt are hard to get unless you spam Time Attack all day which in that case I have better use of my time.
A rank clear volcano free explore on SH for 121k (http://i.imgur.com/xEJAzkX.jpg) and kill a Deko on VH for 105k (http://i.imgur.com/dsrhebT.jpg). They are all today's DO and none of them even requires TA.

Unless you're on SEA server, then DO suck yeah and you're better off running TA daily.

[reaper527]

This is debatable. There are only two RELIABLE sources of meseta in the game for non-premium users, and that is TACOs and extreme quests. My Shop is unreliable because it relies on RNG for a chance to even get a pass (needless to say I have never seen one).

if you've never seen a shop pass, you're doing it wrong. it's easy to get 70 cubes per eq when magatsu pops up. he must have popped up at least a dozen times in the last month, that's a stack of cubes right there.

it takes 2 cube for 1000 fun. you can't honestly tell me that you tried cashing out 40 cubes and then scratched it and didn't get a single shop pass. free players can swim in shop passes whenever they feel like it.

if you want to talk about the rng screwing with people, i got 9 or 10 pairs of saiki legs before i got a single rear. getting shop passes is trivial.

[Dammy]

if you've never seen a shop pass, you're doing it wrong. it's easy to get 70 cubes per eq when magatsu pops up. he must have popped up at least a dozen times in the last month, that's a stack of cubes right there.

it takes 2 cube for 1000 fun. you can't honestly tell me that you tried cashing out 40 cubes and then scratched it and didn't get a single shop pass. free players can swim in shop passes whenever they feel like it.



exactly this
i've never had prem but got over 1 bil meseta just doing this
no problems at all, just play a game

[RibbonSoft]

if you've never seen a shop pass, you're doing it wrong. it's easy to get 70 cubes per eq when magatsu pops up. he must have popped up at least a dozen times in the last month, that's a stack of cubes right there.

it takes 2 cube for 1000 fun. you can't honestly tell me that you tried cashing out 40 cubes and then scratched it and didn't get a single shop pass. free players can swim in shop passes whenever they feel like it.

if you want to talk about the rng screwing with people, i got 9 or 10 pairs of saiki legs before i got a single rear. getting shop passes is trivial.

Nope, never seen one. I'm glad you're so lucky to get so many. Only lucky free players can swim in shop passes.

[Chdata]

Please just stop spewing out generalizations you don't know are true or not based on personal experience.

[RibbonSoft]

Please just stop spewing out generalizations you don't know are true or not based on personal experience.

I do know what is true: that I have never gotten a shop pass from FUN and that it is RNG. I do not see why it is so hard to comprehend that.

[gamesbloke]

I have really bad luck like RibbonSoft. So I just go Prem.

I don't have the time nor the friends to do the various orders on a regular basis. My meseta is always low. I would pay real money for meseta in a heartbeat. I think there has to be restrictions and limits naturally otherwise if you have the pockets for it, Enjoy.

Me personally I don't want bank breaking amounts. I just want enough to do my crafting/grinding/occasionally rare item buying from the player shops. A mil here. A mil there.

The only thing that frustrates me about PSO2 is you cannot just do something cool. Everything really entertaining/interesting has to be earned with hours of dedicated play. Every. Single. Thing.

I do not have a team. My chara is average in the general scheme of things. Being level 62 means it takes ages to level up barring EQ's. I don't think I am alone in my position. I think cash money for meseta is a right and fine thing. I am happy to put back into the economy of a game provided I get a rewarding experience. Fumbling about for chump change on the standard quests waiting for a lucrative EQ makes matters drawn out and occasionally frustrating.

Perhaps if I had a team, different class, and a more positive outlook I might not be so conscious of my meseta situation. I think if they restricted the 'Meseta For Money' to either limited amounts, only so many transactions per month or even an event every so often throughout the year. Then players like me can enjoy the experience all the more....

Or I am an idiot and there's some amazingly awesome way of making meseta under a tight timeframe.

Looking forward to an educational reply ��

[AmanoMai]

I have spent a maximum of 500k in one sitting, never spamming the same slot. No shop passes. Ever. Period. Used a ton of Excubes to do that too, quite a waste.

hnnn
500k FUN = one stack of cubes
no shop passes

sounds kinda impossible but since it's rng it's indeed possible on paper.

i mean, i get at least one per 10k FUN you know. Your personal experience seems to be vast, vastly different from me and other players

do you perhaps play in SEA?
they might tampers with rng there, not that i'd know

[Flaoc]

uhh wow leave it to people to bump old threads but ill leave thi shere.. ac scratching imo is just a way to say you dont want to work for your meseta (aka farming for fodders co's knowing how the market actually works making fodders etc)

[TaigaUC]

Why is Ribbonsoft still here? Still forced to post because there's no account close option?
I've had plenty of times where I spent tons and tons of cubes and FUN and never got a shop pass.
You just have to do it when the chance for a shop pass is higher, which I've explained before.

Anyway, on topic. This is how PSO2 handles things:
Real money -> AC -> exclusive in-game AC items -> exchange for in-game money.
In-game money can only be earned by players.
In-game money = upgrading gear, trading for AC items, etc.

This is a snippet of how some other games handle things:
Real money -> in-game money -> exchange for in-game items.
More people spending real money -> raises prices.
In-game money can be earned by playing, but at an extremely reduced rate = near pointless.
Etc, etc.

I've played tons of other games where maybe 99% of the game are impossible to obtain unless you shell out huge amounts of real cash.
I personally prefer how PSO2 handles it. It still has inflation issues, of course. But most things are easily affordable, which is great.
There isn't an impossible strength gap between free players and paying players, either.
The worst things that require real cash in PSO2 are probably mags and skill trees. I think those shouldn't require real money.

Also, don't forget that you can only put a certain number of items on sale at once.
If you do scratch a lot, you'll have an excess of items you can't get rid of, so you'll have to reduce price if you want to clear inventory.

[gamesbloke]

So it's about selling your item hauls in your own shop then...

Also it's about finding players you can interact with and trust. Basically if you solo most of your game time then you are going nowhere, slowly.

Not being nasty to RibbonSoft here but I am willing to bet he plays solo a lot of his time. As I do...

Yeah it's a lot better with friends/team then. Lol... Guess I better get sociable...

[landman]

I mostly play solo, and have no money problems, I do tacos with team members, but the same TA and XQ I have no problem on soloing them, doing it with someone else just gives you some kind of commitment and you (plural) don't skip them as much.

Then of course I never cared on having all the hairstyles and lobby action like some people do, in this case you just need to work more, or gamble in the AC scratch.

[dr apocalipsis]

I've had plenty of times where I spent tons and tons of cubes and FUN and never got a shop pass.
You just have to do it when the chance for a shop pass is higher, which I've explained before.

Hmmm, I missed that. Link, please?

[TaigaUC]

I'll just explain it again then.
Sometimes, the lineup for FUN scratch is really small.
I tend to get way more My Shop tickets then.

For example, the last time it was really small, my friend and I stocked up about 3-4 tickets per account, although I don't remember how much FUN we spent. It wasn't much.
We both did it for each of our accounts, so it wasn't just a luck thing. I recommended a JP friend do it too, and she got a bunch of My Shop tickets as well.

[dr apocalipsis]

Nice to know.

Thank you.

[LonelyGaruga]

Why is Ribbonsoft still here? Still forced to post because there's no account close option?

RibbonSoft hasn't posted in over a month (only one post after making that remark), someone just decided to revive the thread.

About the FUN lineup thing, since the items work on a % based acquisition rate, I doubt that My Shop passes are actually more common when there are less items in FUN scratch. It's more likely that the rate is the same, and the other items in the FUN scratch have higher rates to constitute the full 100% rate.