Can someone explain me what Bouncer is all about?

[ChaosAngel92]

I apologize for taking this out of the FAQ topic, but I didn't had an answer there and I do want to understand this class.

Anyway, I'm totally clueless what Bouncer is about.
Is it suppoused to be treated as a melee class or a tech class? Is it melee class that can exploit support and melee focused techniques? Is it the spiritual successor of FOmar from PSO2? Can it survive focusing on the melee side and leaving techniques only for support? What kind of mag do you run on it?

Thanks for your time.

[Chdata]

do people use strike switch or w/e its called

[Naoya Kiriyama]

In paper, it works as a hybrid class, a physical combatant specialized in moving around while dealing physical damage as well as using techs to provide more support.

In reality, is a melee class which kill stuff by throwing blades or doing a superkick and having the ocasional shifta/deband/zondeel/verse/resta. The most popular build is DB as Bo/Hu, or Fi/Bo if you can afford a rainbow palette with a JB used mostly for utility. Mag would be S-Atk most of the time, only some pretty specific JB builds go with tatk.

And I guess that's all.


do people use strike switch or w/e its called
Only as a Bo/Hu since it's a main skill.

[ChaosAngel92]

In paper, it works as a hybrid class, a physical combatant specialized in moving around while dealing physical damage as well as using techs to provide more support.

In reality, is a melee class which kill stuff by throwing blades or doing a superkick and having the ocasional shifta/deband/zondeel/verse/resta. The most popular build is DB as Bo/Hu, or Fi/Bo if you can afford a rainbow palette with a JB used mostly for utility. Mag would be S-Atk most of the time, only some pretty specific JB builds go with tatk.

And I guess that's all.


Only as a Bo/Hu since it's a main skill.

That does sound like a FOmar.
My question regarding Jetboots is: it's a melee weapon that ranks on t-atk? Doing a pure s-atk mag would basicly kill the usage of boots?

[Poyonche]

Unless you use Switch Strike which makes Jetboots use your S-atk instead of T-atk.

[Mega Ultra Chicken]

My answer to the question about JBs running on T-ATK: Yes and no. They usually run on T-ATK, but Switch Strike uses the weapon's S-ATK stat instead. Because of that, Switch Strike is best for when your subclass bonuses don't affect T-ATK. Bouncer/Hunter gets the most mileage out of it while Bouncer/Fighter (and the inverse) could go either way. Bouncer/Braver... I dunno. Never used it.

I wouldn't say Bouncer is the "FOmar class." I always saw Techer as that. Instead, Bouncer's more like the HUnewearl class (At least DB Bouncer and JB Bouncer/Hunter.) You have support Techs and the occasional offensive Tech on hand, but you're (usually) better equipped to smash the enemy's face in.

[Edje]

JB are T-ATK based but thanks to Switch Strike JB can be used in S-ATK buids.
Switch Strike works like a stance but with infinite time and converts T-ATK of JB into S-ATK

[isCasted]

converts T-ATK of JB into S-ATK

Actually, it doesn't. All JBs have innate S-ATK along with T-ATK. Not that it makes much difference, though - in most cases it's barely 1% difference between S- and T-ATK values.

[TaigaUC]

I play Bo/Hu as Dual Blades/Jet Boots hybrid. Keeps things interesting.
Focus is on S-ATK. I don't use offensive Techs for damage.
But I very much like to use support Techs. They can also be used to build the Jet Boots gear quickly.
Or to change the Jet Boots element.

I think what Switch Strike does is it calculates the damage of Jet Boots attacks from S-ATK instead of T-ATK.
What this means is that Jet Boots damage will come from melee base stats+mag stats+affixes, etc.
But it doesn't affect Techs, meaning if you want to cast Techs, you still need to have T-ATK.

If you want to do Tech damage, Fo/Te is currently the way to go.

[KazeSenoue]

I play Bo/Hu as Dual Blades/Jet Boots hybrid. Keeps things interesting.
Focus is on S-ATK. I don't use offensive Techs for damage.
But I very much like to use support Techs. They can also be used to build the Jet Boots gear quickly.
Or to change the Jet Boots element.

I think what Switch Strike does is it calculates the damage of Jet Boots attacks from S-ATK instead of T-ATK.
What this means is that Jet Boots damage will come from melee base stats+mag stats+affixes, etc.
But it doesn't affect Techs, meaning if you want to cast Techs, you still need to have T-ATK.

If you want to do Tech damage, Fo/Te is currently the way to go.

Why Bo/Hu instead of Bo/Fi? You can get 85% crit chance as Bo/Fi.

[LonelyGaruga]

Critical hits don't do anything for Bo/Fi. That being said, Immortal Dove jump canceling, PBF tech canceling, and jet boots in general are better done as Bo/Fi. Bo/Fi in general is a better class than Bo/Hu.

[Ryu Soma]

Yeah but fi stances are too situational. They only really work in solo cause you usually have enemy attention (but not always, darker <>native aggro is far higher than even using warcry).
And if you don't have aggro and there are several enemies, getting on the right side is extremely unreliable, thus even if your burst damage may be higher than using hu, your long time damage is much lower.

Fi doesn't do much as melee subclass unless you are hu main. Cause it's all about LB anyway and if you don't use it, no point in using fi.

Hu sub means fury stance (stronger than Brave Stance and Wise Stance is even more situational) as well as a lot of survivability.
Strike Switch you need cause Fury does not boost t-atk but boots use that by default.

Also, how does tech canceling work better with fi sub instead of hu sub?

[Espri]

Hu sub means fury stance (stronger than Brave Stance)
Fury Stance level 10: 120% striking
Fury Up 1+2 level 5: 105%*105%*=110.25%
Net bonus: 132.3% striking. And the boost is Striking, not S-atk

Brave Stance level 10: 125% to all damage
Brave Stance up level 10: 120%

I don't even need to use math here. Hell, even if you included fury combo, it would STILL be weaker.


Also, how does tech canceling work better with fi sub instead of hu sub?

Maybe because http://puu.sh/j79ct/7210c2610c.pnghttp://puu.sh/j79dj/d3371f5205.pnghttp://puu.sh/j79dW/a37a5fb408.png losing 33.1% damage is a bad idea?

[Selphea]

Yeah but fi stances are too situational. They only really work in solo cause you usually have enemy attention (but not always, darker <>native aggro is far higher than even using warcry).
And if you don't have aggro and there are several enemies, getting on the right side is extremely unreliable, thus even if your burst damage may be higher than using hu, your long time damage is much lower.

Fi doesn't do much as melee subclass unless you are hu main. Cause it's all about LB anyway and if you don't use it, no point in using fi.

Hu sub means fury stance (stronger than Brave Stance and Wise Stance is even more situational) as well as a lot of survivability.
Strike Switch you need cause Fury does not boost t-atk but boots use that by default.

Also, how does tech canceling work better with fi sub instead of hu sub?

Tech cancel's been covered but honestly if the stances were so bad no one would bother with Fi/Hu or Fi/Bo or apparently Katana Fi/Br nowadays, and Add Class Fighter wouldn't be so ridiculously priced. LB has a smaller contribution to damage than Brave Stance mind you.

Fury even with Fury Combo is weaker than Brave too though, where did you get the math for that?

[SlN]

Photon fever... nuff said.

[Rayden]

Techer is much closer to FOmar than Bouncer is. I'd say Bouncer is more like HUmar or HUnewearl.

[Ryu Soma]

Tech cancel's been covered but honestly if the stances were so bad no one would bother with Fi/Hu or Fi/Bo or apparently Katana Fi/Br nowadays, and Add Class Fighter wouldn't be so ridiculously priced. LB has a smaller contribution to damage than Brave Stance mind you.

Fury even with Fury Combo is weaker than Brave too though, where did you get the math for that?
We're talking about sub, not main.

And really, if you don't inculde all boosts it's obvious that the math is skewed.
Fi can technically get more damage but as I said, it's very situational and unreliable.
When you see fi vids it's big damage only in very predictable situations like tacos or solo bosses. But when you see videos of EQs the damage isn't really that amazing anymore. Kinda obvious when so often you don't get the stance boost cause you're on the wrong side.
I'm seeing a lot of people putting not damage much lower than they like because focus so much on burst damage and numbers that they forget the way you play is important. Everytime you dodge you don't do dmg. Everytime an enemy is on the wrong side of a fi stance you lose a lot of damage. Every time you get interrupted when setting up burst damage, you don't do it and just waste time.

[GHNeko]

Immortal Dove jump canceling

can you explain this to me?

[LonelyGaruga]

Immortal Dove executes faster in the air than it does on the ground. You can interrupt the cooldown by jumping faster than performing another Immortal Dove, so the best DPS with it is to treat it like Gekka-zakuro. Example (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm26199079) with Niren Orochi on Vol/Quartz/Ex.

[Selphea]

We're talking about sub, not main.

And really, if you don't inculde all boosts it's obvious that the math is skewed.
Fi can technically get more damage but as I said, it's very situational and unreliable.
When you see fi vids it's big damage only in very predictable situations like tacos or solo bosses. But when you see videos of EQs the damage isn't really that amazing anymore. Kinda obvious when so often you don't get the stance boost cause you're on the wrong side.
I'm seeing a lot of people putting not damage much lower than they like because focus so much on burst damage and numbers that they forget the way you play is important. Everytime you dodge you don't do dmg. Everytime an enemy is on the wrong side of a fi stance you lose a lot of damage. Every time you get interrupted when setting up burst damage, you don't do it and just waste time.

Video of EQ:

[spoiler-box]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJZg7Q1lyr4[/spoiler-box]

Seems consistent to me, except for the few seconds where I derped.

But how do you get interrupted as Bo? Practically every attack has super armor. And then there's the question of role too. If a Te is around, the Te should be the one that engages mobs, as a Bo you'll be the one that does DPS when everything is Zondeeled, and usually facing the Techer, and the Techer likely won't pull from behind. If there's no Te around, -you- should be the one that engages as Bo, so everything should be facing you. There shouldn't be much messy forward/backward issues except in very bad TD pugs.

P.S. don't ask for an LQ vid. I don't play LQ as Bo/Fi. Ironically I do find Bo/Fi very conditional, not because of Fi but because of Bo. There's like, four element weaknesses in there and they mix a lot. Bo can't really afford to lose Ele Stance because its AoEs are comparatively weak as-is, and that's where I felt I was losing more damage than Fi. I'm actually still running the LQ, but as Lightning Fo/Fi to level Force for the upcoming Class Boost.


can you explain this to me?

I thought you were all over Tiger Knee Gekka/Dove!

[Xaelouse]

FI stances are easy in that EQ. Wise Stance is pretty much on nearly all the time with Elder, but Elder is a joke fight so that doesn't have much merit.

when you're charging Strike Gust you have good chances of being interrupted. Possible to get interrupted before getting into position to land vinto, which could stall you from setting up. Timing and positioning is really key to proper jet boots gameplay, and flinching ruins that. You could imagine how helpful massive automate ends up being for some fights, and having boots of multiple elements for vinto, since that helps eases this type of gameplay.
Your video doesn't show it too much since you're supposed to be sneaking in charged strike gusts/vinto gigue pretty often, even while risking getting hit because it is that important in order to do real DPS.

While I think BO/HU vs. BO/FI is a matter of playstyle which is silly to argue about, HU sub has more tools for JB unless you like damaging techs or think moment gale will still do damage with chase. It just makes you that much aggressive against bosses + still being calculated. Combined with 13*s, it also brings into question how useful FI/BO boots can be, or maybe the wave of 10503 Zirenheits in shop already shows it.

[Selphea]

Strike Gust is actually less DPS than Gran Wave strangely. Check Swiki.

[Xaelouse]

I know. But Strike Gust is still good because:
1) With jet boots gear boost, one use + derived attack builds up to gear 3 the fastest among the other PAs. Gran Wave needs two uses to reach gear 3 from 0 gear
2) The DPS chart doesn't factor in the speed increase + halved charged time granted by Rapid Boost.
3) When fighting falz, their attacks have wind-up or makes them teleport all over the place, which is good time to set up or charge something up during or after the attack. This makes added frames from charging on the DPS chart meaningless sometimes since you're not in good range/position to attack anyway.
The only thing the chart shows is that Vinto is meant to make up for all the low DPS/below-average DPP PAs JBs are riddled with. Basically, whatever you're doing to get gear to 3 lowers the value of Vinto. Special mention to moment gale because you could go from 0 to 3 gear with it, cancel it, use vinto and get a zanverse tick out of it.

[gaijin_punch]

Thread-jacking a bit. I will give Bouncer a whirl once I've got some decent gear for it. I peaked at other's Jet Boots. I assume w/ those I add Technique III and Elder Soul, and use a T-ATK mag? In that case, what do I use as my subclass?

[Sizustar]

Thread-jacking a bit. I will give Bouncer a whirl once I've got some decent gear for it. I peaked at other's Jet Boots. I assume w/ those I add Technique III and Elder Soul, and use a T-ATK mag? In that case, what do I use as my subclass?

Hu for easy mode, Fi for more damage.

[Selphea]

I know. But Strike Gust is still good because:
1) With jet boots gear boost, one use + derived attack builds up to gear 3 the fastest among the other PAs. Gran Wave needs two uses to reach gear 3 from 0 gear
2) The DPS chart doesn't factor in the speed increase + halved charged time granted by Rapid Boost.
3) When fighting falz, their attacks have wind-up or makes them teleport all over the place, which is good time to set up or charge something up during or after the attack. This makes added frames from charging on the DPS chart meaningless sometimes since you're not in good range/position to attack anyway.
The only thing the chart shows is that Vinto is meant to make up for all the low DPS/below-average DPP PAs JBs are riddled with. Basically, whatever you're doing to get gear to 3 lowers the value of Vinto. Special mention to moment gale because you could go from 0 to 3 gear with it, cancel it, use vinto and get a zanverse tick out of it.

I actually tried 1, i know it's high but somehow didn't seem to be getting gear 3 damage from Gust alone on Rodos, will need to check again.

Even accounting for the charge speed, it's still behind Gran Wave and both will get 15% speed so that's moot.

Also you can't predict where Loser will end up in fast mode except post timestop afaik?

Thread-jacking a bit. I will give Bouncer a whirl once I've got some decent gear for it. I peaked at other's Jet Boots. I assume w/ those I add Technique III and Elder Soul, and use a T-ATK mag? In that case, what do I use as my subclass?

Check my sig

[GHNeko]

I thought you were all over Tiger Knee Gekka/Dove!

I am, I just wasnt aware that TK Dove had a name lmfao.

[infiniteeverlasting]

your job is stand in front of the door and make sure nothing bad happens in the club. :D

[TaigaUC]

Wise stance on Elder?

I don't think I've tried Bo/Fi or Fi/Bo since Bouncer was first implemented.

[Selphea]

Yea Elder is weird like that. The part of the stage close to him is considered his back