Soo, the new PAs... they any good?

[Mattykins]

The rifle one seems simple enough, I guess. Haven't gotten a chance to play around, yet.

[wefwq]

New katana PA are cool and pretty decent, too bad when dashing the game will lock the camera.

[Cyber Meteor]

The new rifle PA is really awesome imo:D! It hits harder than Satellite cannon, however you can't move when you're charging the PA, it can be charged 2 levels (and it's pretty fast to charge), more hits and more range for a full charge, but it can't hit more than 3 times an ennemy, pierces through like Piercing shell. So far i really like it, and really useful for Kuronia and those car toy darker:-P. I can't comment on the others as i still haven't tested them.

[Maenara]

Adapt Spin is a pretty great PA for Wired Lance. It has three different versions, which it uses depending on whether you're holding forward, to the side, or backwards/not in any direction. Very high mobility. Good utility PA, damage is okay.

[Xaelouse]

They're all okay and fill some niche uses. That's it.
Twin Dagger PA is meant to counteract the rising effect from some other PAs, the damage is pretty good as well. It'll have uses against certain bosses.

[SakuRei]

What I think about the new Katana PA... (Unlisted the vid since it's just a sample recording)


(Skip the video at 0:07)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SgYW7CqB4

[final_attack]

Point Blank Lv1 new Rifle PA as Gu (full charge) on Luther's Clock ....

100k/hit - 3hits (using Pyrox 50 Dark Rifle (ZRA 16%)) ...... more hits on Elder's Arms, because it'll hit not just 1 arm.

I wonder if I should use my old crafted Firearms instead now o-o

[wefwq]

What I think about the new Katana PA... (Unlisted the vid since it's just a sample recording)


(Skip the video at 0:07)

Rec-Game00-MTSU-PSO2-REF - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1SgYW7CqB4)
except it's less flashy here on PSO2.

[xBM]

The new Katana PA is not that bad.

It's like a mini Omnislash when you just click the PA button multiple times. Then press any directional buttons to do the final slash. It looks pretty cool if there is multiple enemies and you just dash around them and kill them with the final slash.

Damage isn't bad either and the PP cost for it is nice too. It'll probably replace my Asagiri-rendan PA since the dash seems a little longer and the PP cost is much lower.

[TehCubey]

TD PA - I don't see the point of this. When I raise, it's usually because I want to stay high, not go down back to ground level. Which admittedly deals pretty good damage (as opposed to using the PA at ground level which is pathetic damage-wise), but this is something that has sporadic use at best. I don't see place for it on my subpalette.

Or you could try to create dedicated raise + fall combos, using quick march, raging waltz or something followed by fall nocturne, but it'd deal less damage than just straight sympho drive or crafted wild rhapsody spam.

[wefwq]

I know i saw this somewhere before...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY_MGtRaTKg

[Vatallus]

I can't be the only one that sees Zhou Tai from Dynasty Warriors when looking at some of these Katana PAs.

[Chdata]

the new katana PA is pretty great, you dash around so fast you rarely get hit, and deal great damage.

I still dunno how to continuously dash with it either while attacking enemies or with no enemies around though.

[GoldenFalcon]

the new katana PA is pretty great, you dash around so fast you rarely get hit, and deal great damage.

I still dunno how to continuously dash with it either while attacking enemies or with no enemies around though.

can you cancel it with jump, guard, or step? guard or step while midair?

[Chdata]

it seems like if you hold directional keys at all, it'll force you to do the slash.

whenever you use the pa and dash, it automatically spins you 180*

(might be a good PA for wise stance FiBr or something HMM HMM)

anyway, to do repeated dash slashes spam the PA without touching directional keys, though I find it much stronger if you use the slash every time. but it might be good for weaker mobs to spam it.

[xBM]

Guren-tessen changes the dash to the opposite way of where you dashed from. So I don't think you can travel efficiently with this PA like Asagiri-rendan.

If you don't do the final slash though, you can cancel it with a just guard or dashing (press X because if just press one of the directional buttons, you will do the final slash.)

This PA actually looks quite flashy, that's if you press the PA button on an enemy multiple times.

Also note that the final slash still consumes 10 PP and the tracking range of this PA is quite huge (much bigger than the TD PA Raging Waltz or Symphonic Drive imo.)

[Chdata]

there was a video of someone dashing consistently with this PA somehow... but i can't find the post now

[wefwq]

I saw a guy dashing straight with guren, i think that it's a macro thing since it make me lagging.

[K.O. Kazjivo]

You can kind of dash by blocking, turning forward, then launching again. Sometimes the second attack activates, but it's still faster than normal sprinting speed.

[n_n]

Loving the new rifle PA. TY SEGA.

[wefwq]

So guren fix soon?

/*hey guise we're noticed that few of you guys go too fast and thus we're fixing it soon*/

[ultimafia]

Seems legit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byho5mgJ9dc)

[final_attack]

Cross post (from what I've posted on Gunner thread)

R.I.P. SatAim as ChainFinisher TwT

[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/jqsXq/b4ce07f508.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

32 Chain - Lv14 End Attract
Weapon : ☆１１Pyrox Rifle (50 Dark) - ZRA potential (16%) - +60 R-Atk Affix (990 R-Atk total)

[SakuRei]

Somehow I do get on how Guren Tessen works... slightly long wall of text incoming. I might be right, or I might be wrong with this, since this is what I notice using it a lot. And I need lots of people to test out my theory.

I'm kinda using it for fun or for flashy moves where it does multiple dash and slash effects [SPOILER]that looks extremely awesome somehow I think it's similar to Katana Combat skill, the more slashes/DPS you do to an enemy, the final attack's damage will vary on the DPS dealt.

Since I have at least around 150 PP, I can do 14 Slashes and 1 finisher (the directional button slash) in the result, and Guren is just 10 PP per slash and additional 10 PP for the finisher.

I need some players to test this out with PP higher than 150 (Those guys with Saiki/GGG sets + PP boost, etc. etc. stuffs, please do it. The more PP gauge, the more damage it will do I think, as long as you time the directional slash/finisher to the target.[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Kondibon]

This is the most fun I've had wasting PP in ages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksRHY84a-Kg


Somehow I do get on how Guren Tessen works... slightly long wall of text incoming. I might be right, or I might be wrong with this, since this is what I notice using it a lot. And I need lots of people to test out my theory.

I'm kinda using it for fun or for flashy moves where it does multiple dash and slash effects [SPOILER]that looks extremely awesome somehow I think it's similar to Katana Combat skill, the more slashes/DPS you do to an enemy, the final attack's damage will vary on the DPS dealt.

Since I have at least around 150 PP, I can do 14 Slashes and 1 finisher (the directional button slash) in the result, and Guren is just 10 PP per slash and additional 10 PP for the finisher.

I need some players to test this out with PP higher than 150 (Those guys with Saiki/GGG sets + PP boost, etc. etc. stuffs, please do it. The more PP gauge, the more damage it will do I think, as long as you time the directional slash/finisher to the target.[/SPOILER-BOX]I've been spending the last couple of hours spamming it and haven't noticed anything like that. The damage seemed pretty consistant unless I missed a JA. I'll check again, but it doesn't seem likely.

[GoldenFalcon]

This is the most fun I've had wasting PP in ages.

Imagine using the new skull katana

Guren would cost 7 pp...

[Vatallus]

If a PA ends up being only used for dashing there is that chance of Sega nerfing its speed. Wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last time.

[Touka]

The dagger pa can set up some derpy combos like waltz,nocturne,sarabande.

[un1t27]

Seems legit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byho5mgJ9dc)

yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss:-D

[Qualia]

At first I thought the new katana PA sucked outside of the dashing exploits, but then I realized how well it can effortlessly oneshot most SH trash. Makes katana mobbing much easier for DOs and such. Still gonna use Sakura Endo for raw DPS on stationary bosses and most things on XH.

[Ginganator12]

The new rifle PA is really awesome imo:D! It hits harder than Satellite cannon, however you can't move when you're charging the PA, it can be charged 2 levels (and it's pretty fast to charge), more hits and more range for a full charge, but it can't hit more than 3 times an ennemy, pierces through like Piercing shell. So far i really like it, and really useful for Kuronia and those car toy darker:-P. I can't comment on the others as i still haven't tested them.

Do you have proof that the new PA hit harder than Satellite Cannon? Because from what me and my guild members in Team Crimson have noticed is that this is flat-out wrong. It's a nice PA, but it's nowhere near hitting harder than every hit of Satellite Cannon

[Vatallus]

New rifle PA ticked 160ks on the new miniboss with wb. I didn't bother taking proof of that though. Maybe I'll get it later.

[Bellion]

Here is End Attract on the biggest punching bag but also displays its potential against large hitbox targets.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMxqyh77wc

[Flaoc]

Here is End Attract on the biggest punching bag but also displays its potential against large hitbox targets.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMxqyh77wc

its almost rip sat cannon... almost

[Selphea]

I'm wondering what it will do to Nemesis more than Sat Can.

[Chdata]

can you banish with pas from another weapon

[Kondibon]

can you banish with pas from another weaponNo, you can't.

[Bellion]

[SPOILER-BOX]www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlAEh8HyF8[/SPOILER-BOX]

Well I think this shows End Attract better. It can definitely hit more than 3 times, I hit at least 6 times on Bal Rodos with one shot. Hell, I'm not even at a proper angle against Bal Rodos so it can probably hit even more times.
There are at least 3 bosses out there that can get hit at least 5 times per shot with the proper distancing and angles.
Need at least 4 hits to out damage one Satellite Cannon PA, but 3 is enough to out DPS it for sure.

Satellite Cannon and Last Nemesis still has its place against enemies with small weakpoints.

[TaigaUC]

That just seems like a piercing shot version of Sat Can.
Sat Can is probably still useful when you don't have time to get into position for a top-down attack.

I tried Guren Tessen or whatever.
I really, really despise how your character just whips out the second slice on their own.
Seems like it hits harder than Sakura Endo, though it probably takes more time and is much more imprecise.
Range is ridiculously huge, maybe half the circumference of Kanran Kikyou.

Tried that new Wired Lance PA too.
Feels/looks kinda silly and weird. Hits pretty hard, good for moving around, as already pointed out.
Not much else to say about it.

[GoldenFalcon]

I tried Guren Tessen or whatever.
I really, really despise how your character just whips out the second slice on their own.

Let go of direction key?

[milranduil]

Tessan with LA cancel + weapon swap
[spoiler-box]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyIpmDKvuv8
[/spoiler-box]

The LA is what requires precise timing, the rest is just recycled dashing.


Do you have proof that the new PA hit harder than Satellite Cannon? Because from what me and my guild members in Team Crimson have noticed is that this is flat-out wrong. It's a nice PA, but it's nowhere near hitting harder than every hit of Satellite Cannon

It does more damage per hit, but less number of hits on most, if not all, targets.

[Qualia]

I tried Guren Tessen or whatever.
Seems like it hits harder than Sakura Endo, though it probably takes more time and is much more imprecise.

It definitely doesn't. It's more PP efficient, but Sakura Endo still dishes out a lot more damage.

[infiniteeverlasting]

where do i get these new pa's...

[Flaoc]

im sure someone with more atk on their weapon and units can see even bigger numbers but

RA/HU

10603 ideal 100 atk

saiki set 120 atk each unit

weak drink team buff and shiftaride... i really like this pa already

[SPOILER-BOX]http://grabilla.com/05806-fc328a99-aa84-48b5-b674-6f8ef5098cf9.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[TaigaUC]

I was tired as hell but when I did some testing in Sanctum TA last night.
It was something like 21kx2 for Sakura Endo.
For Guren Tessen it was some weird numbers like 15k, 35k and something else I don't remember.
Seemed kinda random, not to mention imprecise.

Will mess around with it later, anyway.
I also hate that slow slide on it. It's so unsatisfying and uncool.
If enemies had a brain, they would see you coming a mile away and you'd never get a successful hit.
And then your character would pose and do another slice afterwards anyway, because SEGA.

[wefwq]

I was tired as hell but when I did some testing in Sanctum TA last night.
It was something like 21kx2 for Sakura Endo.
For Guren Tessen it was some weird numbers like 15k, 35k and something else I don't remember.
Seemed kinda random, not to mention imprecise.

Will mess around with it later, anyway.
I also hate that slow slide on it. It's so unsatisfying and uncool.
If enemies had a brain, they would see you coming a mile away and you'd never get a successful hit.
And then your character would pose and do another slice afterwards anyway, because SEGA.
Damage inconsistency are because on how clusterfuck the aim are, the damage itself are pretty great but the problem is you can't really control on where you will land your slash.
I wish that we can somehow make a circular movement when dashing back to slightly adjust position, it's really annoying when enemy are spining around when it's weak point are blocked by the other body parts.

[n_n]

RaBr
Ideal Rifle: 150atk (fire)
Tian+White Tail: 140atk (no coast timed)
Weak Drink
Lv17 Shifta (from ストライクガスト via セルクフロッツ)
Lv7 Team Shifta
Waffle

[spoiler-box]http://puu.sh/jr9jQ/cc852c36a8.jpg[/spoiler-box]

same setup as above, but with shifta strike (+max shifta advance) from an NPC:
[spoiler-box]http://puu.sh/jra37/1ec0b7bd2e.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[lemonlight16]

Does Guren-Tessen count as charged? Sorry if this question has already been answered.

[wefwq]

Does Guren-Tessen count as charged? Sorry if this question has already been answered.
--no--

[GrieverXVII]

I can't be the only one that sees Zhou Tai from Dynasty Warriors when looking at some of these Katana PAs.

it reminds me of Vergil from DMC honestly, even the poster character looks like a blatant rip of Vergil.

[ultimafia]

it reminds me of Vergil from DMC honestly, even the poster character looks like a blatant rip of Vergil.

Apparently every spiky silver/white-haired dude holding a Katana is a carbon copy of Vergil

[TaigaUC]

Hmm, so I guess Guren Tessen is particularly good if you didn't bother getting the Charge skills.

[KazukiQZ]

In any Braver katana tree, Average Charge skill is a must due to its good PAs (Sakura-endo, Kanran-kikyou, Hatou-rindou, and if you consider crafted Kazan-nadeshiko good too) are charged attacks.

[GoldenFalcon]

In any Braver katana tree, Average Charge skill is a must due to its good PAs (Sakura-endo, Kanran-kikyou, Hatou-rindou, and if you consider crafted Kazan-nadeshiko good too) are charged attacks.

Gone are the days of Shunka?

[The Walrus]

It's been like a year or so since Shunka got hit with the nerf bat and everyone just kinda stopped caring.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Gone are the days of Shunka?

The PP:damage efficiency is the only thing going for shunka since guren hit... which isn't enough to justify its pallete space anymore.

[xBM]

So I've played around Guren-tessen a little bit and I have to say, it has its uses.

If you're fighting Loser on XH and you're trying to reach the arm of Loser, you can just activate Katana Combat and attack from there. If you're using Sakura-endo or Hatou-rindo, you know you have to keep jumping just to make the PA's hit but if you use Guren-tessen, you can just reach to the arm with Katana Combat and use Guren to stay in place. Personally, I would still use Hatou or Sakura on the arm but Guren can give you a much easier time to do damage without having to jump.

Another thing is Guren can be used to dodge attacks while still doing damage. Since the dash has a huge distance and you also turn to the direction you dashed from, you can just play around with the enemies and laugh while they try to hit the air.

[TaigaUC]

And then feel like crying when there's nothing there and your character tries to hit air too.

[TaigaUC]

Never mind, figured it out now. Didn't realize directional keys were triggering a second slash.
That's annoying.

[Kondibon]

It's also useful for getting behind annoying enemies with weakpoints on their back like wondas and dingels. I just use it to be a Cool Guy™ most of the time though.

[Sayara]

So what about the verdict about the new WL PA?
I haven't really figured out how to go about using it besides Aerial traveling device to an enemy .-.

[Kondibon]

I didn't use it much but yeah it seems useful for aerial mobility. I don't use WL much anymore though.

[trojin]

My damage sucks so bad. I see vids on here of people hitting 500k with new rifle PA whereas I can only hit 200k (Ra / Hu). I'm only an average player but to not even have 50% of the damage is slightly annoying :-)

Where could I get the biggest boosts from?

Premium Shifta drink
Weak bullet on Rodos mouth
Just attack
Level 9 PA
170 R-attack Mag
Gloam + ing with 60 r-attack on each
Yas7000v 50% fire, level 3 pot, +10, 85 r-attack from affixes

[Chdata]

the extra damage is from being a RaGu using chain trigger

[Mizuchira]

The new katana PA is fun to spam. Definitely has it's own niche though.

[milranduil]

the extra damage is from being a RaGu using chain trigger

No, the 717k picture shown is with RaBr (like the post said).

[Chdata]

all in all the new PA is less damage than sakura endo

[Chdata]

No, the 717k picture shown is with RaBr (like the post said).

his post didn't say anything about RaBr, but RaGu is the one that has a picture somewhere of 999k hits x3.

[Searaphim]

Yeah Ra/Br has the slightly weaker output. Ra/Gu is best :3

[milranduil]

his post didn't say anything about RaBr, but RaGu is the one that has a picture somewhere of 999k hits x3.


RaBr[spoiler-box]http://puu.sh/jra37/1ec0b7bd2e.jpg[/spoiler-box]

5char

[Chdata]

My damage sucks so bad. I see vids on here of people hitting 500k with new rifle PA whereas I can only hit 200k (Ra / Hu). I'm only an average player but to not even have 50% of the damage is slightly annoying :-)

Where could I get the biggest boosts from?

Premium Shifta drink
Weak bullet on Rodos mouth
Just attack
Level 9 PA
170 R-attack Mag
Gloam + ing with 60 r-attack on each
Yas7000v 50% fire, level 3 pot, +10, 85 r-attack from affixes

wrong post, adios

[milranduil]

Except you don't need RaGu to hit 500k which is why I said what I said...

[trojin]

No, the 717k picture shown is with RaBr (like the post said).

Well I have braver at 50, don't quite have all the skills but I will compare it to Hunter later - I want at least 300k per hit to be happy.

[Chdata]

You quoted me about a post I wasn't talking about in the first place ;v

[Dycize]

I guess my opinion will echo other people's.

Guren Tessen is fun times and actually pretty good, darting around like that is just -fun-.
Adapt spin is also pretty fun, good hitbox and flipping around like a wild rabbit is, again, fun. Damage's pretty lacking however. Probably one of the most fun gear builder tho, imo.
Fall nocturne is... "We already have symphonic drive" tier, sadly. There's probably fun combos to make but SD spam feels like it would be more productive. I'm no TD expert so...
And then End Attract, which is like what if Piercing Shell and Satellite Cannon had a baby. It's a beautiful baby btw. You can charge it while remaining in the air, and it charges pretty fast anyway. Will it beat satcan's damage? Doubt it, but it feels useable in more situations.
Pretty happy overall for those new PAs and I look forward to getting them at a level higher than 1 (except maybe fall nocturne for which I don't care much about).

[Vatallus]

My damage sucks so bad. I see vids on here of people hitting 500k with new rifle PA whereas I can only hit 200k (Ra / Hu). I'm only an average player but to not even have 50% of the damage is slightly annoying :-)

Where could I get the biggest boosts from?

Premium Shifta drink
Weak bullet on Rodos mouth
Just attack
Level 9 PA
170 R-attack Mag
Gloam + ing with 60 r-attack on each
Yas7000v 50% fire, level 3 pot, +10, 85 r-attack from affixes


As long as you realize those pictures are all using Bal Rodos. His lower jaw has an absurdly high damage modifier if you hit it. More than any other boss.

[milranduil]

Actually, no not more than any other boss lol. Ga/gu wondas have the highest for shooting damage and bibras has highest for striking (both 4x weak points).

[Vatallus]

Actually, no not more than any other boss lol. Ga/gu wondas have the highest for shooting damage and bibras has highest for striking (both 4x weak points).

Right, because his jaw taking nearly 2x more damage than any other weakpoint isn't a thing. Vibrace only gives around 50% more damage to melees.

[TaigaUC]

Forgot to say I spammed Guren Tessen in SH Despair earlier and flattened everything. It hits hard.
Felt like I was getting to enemies and towers faster than people in AIS.
But then, the other players weren't very good.

That was with me failing to figure out how to skip the second slash, too.
Now that I know how to dash effectively with it, gonna be easy getting around the place.

[Chdata]

lol SH

faster than AIS is a myth, but faster than any non AIS is good (except maybe il zonde)

There's a datamine for enemy hit modifiers, it is kinda old now though

[milranduil]

Right, because his jaw taking nearly 2x more damage than any other weakpoint isn't a thing. Vibrace only gives around 50% more damage to melees.

Do you know anything about weak points? Rodos jaw is 2.5x to melee/shooting/techs(non fire/ice) and 3.0x to fire/ice techs. Bibras face and butt is 4.0x to melee (2.0x to shooting/tech), 2.4x to fire/light techs. Ga/gu wondas are 2.0x to melee, 4.0x to shooting, 2.0x to tech, 2.4x to lightning/light techs. Please educate me.

EDIT: If bibras were only 1.5x, then explain why I did this much damage with a slide end
[spoiler-box]
http://puu.sh/jrGex/9cc3a73e6f.jpg
[/spoiler-box]

[Vatallus]

I mean I really shouldn't have to do this, but I might as well post some screenshots I just took.

12* Live Rifle, 40 light. Pot 1 +10. Pot increases dmg for each just attack in succession up until 10%. So I just fired my wb and then just attacked End Attraction off of that.

Rockbear
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_103451_006_zpsbsnrlcdn.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Blu Ring - Weak point is so small it only gets hit once
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_103022_004_zps8yycrqr7.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Cordotta Idetta
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_101536_001_zpszyl9rihk.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Gu Wonda - Can't get Weak Bullet to stick on the weakspot. So multiple the damage by 2.5 for Weak Bullet multiplier. (229,592)
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_102550_003_zpsfhmgdsof.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Bal Rodos - Note again that my rifle is Light.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_100830_000_zps0wrtmjc5.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Yeah, it sure looks like Bal Rodos' jaw doesn't have a modifer on it...

[GoldenFalcon]

Do you know anything about weak points? Rodos jaw is 2.5x to melee/shooting/techs(non fire/ice) and 3.0x to fire/ice techs. Bibras face and butt is 4.0x to melee (2.0x to shooting/tech), 2.4x to fire/light techs. Ga/gu wondas are 2.0x to melee, 4.0x to shooting, 2.0x to tech, 2.4x to lightning/light techs. Please educate me.

Isn't it redundant to specifically list technic weaknesses? That's like saying Bal Rodos is 3x to ice/fire element melee/shooting...

[milranduil]

I mean I really shouldn't have to do this, but I might as well post some screenshots I just took.

12* Live Rifle, 40 light. Pot 1 +10. Pot increases dmg for each just attack in succession up until 10%. So I just fired my wb and then just attacked End Attraction off of that.

Rockbear
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_103451_006_zpsbsnrlcdn.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Blu Ring - Weak point is so small it only gets hit once
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_103022_004_zps8yycrqr7.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Cordotta Idetta
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_101536_001_zpszyl9rihk.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Gu Wonda - Can't get Weak Bullet to stick on the weakspot. So multiple the damage by 2.5 for Weak Bullet multiplier. (229,592)
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_102550_003_zpsfhmgdsof.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Bal Rodos - Note again that my rifle is Light.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_100830_000_zps0wrtmjc5.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Yeah, it sure looks like Bal Rodos' jaw doesn't have a modifer on it...

You clearly do not know how to damage test lol.

Isn't it redundant to specifically list technic weaknesses? That's like saying Bal Rodos is 3x to ice/fire element melee/shooting...

No, because it's different for melee/shooting. Melee/shooting matching element get a bonus to attack, not a different multiplier to damage entirely.

[Vatallus]

You clearly do not know how to damage test lol.

Every screenshot has the same Large Drink Shifta buff. If that is honestly what you are going to try to argue with then there isn't any reason left to talk to you.

Also Vibrace isn't anywhere near x4 more than normal weakpoints otherwise I'd roll over 100ks with photon blade fever. That said I can't actually tell if your screenshot is a slide end or a vol graptor exploding since my 60 light Ares Partizan doesn't even roll that high with just a slide end.

[milranduil]

Every screenshot has the same Large Drink Shifta buff. If that is honestly what you are going to try to argue with then there isn't any reason left to talk to you.

You're missing standing snipe in like half of your pictures, and sharp shooter in the wonda pic. Learn to damage test properly, please.

[Vatallus]

You're missing standing snipe in like half of your pictures, and sharp shooter in the wonda pic. Learn to damage test properly, please.

Are you serious? I am standing still in every single screenshot. As long as you do not move before using a PA it gets standing snipe bonus. Your arguement is Bal Rodos did not have a huge modifier. Your arguement is that Gu/Ga Wonda has a bigger modifier. Sharpshooter is not active Bal/Wonda/Rockbear. Sharpshooter was only active in the Blu Ring and Col screenshots and even then it did less than the rest.

[Nulve]

Sorry, haven't read the thread, but just tried the new Katana PA.... uhhh, is it just me, or is it super OP and in immediate need of a nerf?

[milranduil]

Are you serious? I am standing still in every single screenshot. As long as you do not move before using a PA it gets standing snipe bonus.

This isn't a debate, you're doing something wrong. The multipliers have been tested and known for quite a long time.
[spoiler-box]
First column is striking modifier, second is shooting modifier, further columns deal with tech modifier for specific elements.
http://puu.sh/jrHk7/a1da3c73cf.png
[/spoiler-box]

EDIT: to humor you, I've added rockbear and ringahda to the bottom.

[GoldenFalcon]

It is very odd that his Rockbear picture has the most damage when off-element

And his Bal Rodos picture shows how much damage he should be doing to Ringahda and Cordotta

What rifle are you using?

[Vatallus]

It is very odd that his Rockbear picture has the most damage when off-element

And his Bal Rodos picture shows how much damage he should be doing to Ringahda and Cordotta

What rifle are you using?

Stated it in the first picture. 12* Live Rifle, 40 light, and pot 1 +10. Also no, even Sat Cannon doesn't hit that hard on Blu Ring if I did head + SC strats. He has a normal weakpoint modifier. Character is Ra/Br Lv 72/55. Slight just attack boost from the rifle because I just attacked End Attraction off of the weakbullet. (3% total for one just attack succession)

2339 r atk (screenshot provided)
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_111240_007_zpsj7g6ac7k.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

edit: Full Dex Mag since this character runs Fi/Bo and Ra/Br.

edit 2: providing screenshot of rifle. Haven't bothered affixing it yet since this will be a Bow character later.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150806_111707_008_zpsgiwhn8ui.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

edit 3: I would also like to apologize about how off-topic this tread got. I was merely stating Bal Rodos has a high damage modifier on his lower jaw, which he does and most of us know that, just to have it get turned into a nonsense debate about other bosses that were not even involved in this topic. I tried to explain to a person questioning why Bal Rodos pictures show so much damage and it turned into a bunch of stupidity when I was just trying to help someone. Things like this are why a lot of us refuse to actually come here and try to help others.

[Chdata]

Sorry, haven't read the thread, but just tried the new Katana PA.... uhhh, is it just me, or is it super OP and in immediate need of a nerf?

sh yes, xh no

[Qualia]

Sorry, haven't read the thread, but just tried the new Katana PA.... uhhh, is it just me, or is it super OP and in immediate need of a nerf?

lmao "super OP"
Definitely just you.

[Kondibon]

sh yes, xh noI wouldn't even say it's OP in SH provided you aren't over leveled already. It's good but it's not pre-nerf shunka or anything. Just a good mobbing/mobility tool.

[Chdata]

i'm sure with a 13* it'd be one hitting every trash mob with just the 10 pp dash

[Kondibon]

i'm sure with a 13* it'd be one hitting every trash mob with just the 10 pp dashWell yes, if you had a 13* and were max leveled with good gear sure, you could oneshot mobs 5 levels below you. :wacko:

[Nulve]

lmao "super OP"
Definitely just you.

Yeah, having used it more, it's OP for SH but not XH. The new rifle PA is worse in terms of being OP.

[wefwq]

Sorry, haven't read the thread, but just tried the new Katana PA.... uhhh, is it just me, or is it super OP and in immediate need of a nerf?
On lower difficulty, yes.
Since blowing your way = OP, right?

On higher difficulty, to be honest it's kind of lacking, damage-wise.
Still fun to use, though.

[Shinamori]

Is the twin dagger PA that bad?

[Dycize]

For one, it will only give you gear if you start it up on the ground.
The attack itself is a downward attack that makes you bounce a bit above ground so you don't cancel your gear. It moves forward a bit (generally enough to keep yourself spamming it on a mob's face). Damage seemed... Lackluster? I was more trying it out for its properties myself so I didn't setup anything (stanceless fighting, yo).
The hitbox itself will only hit in front of you, so it's really another single target PA.
The PP cost -is- pretty low tho, at 16PP. But at 16PP, you also have quick march, which... Actually fall nocturne is like a reverse quick march, except it doesn't give you 2 gear bars. Only 1, and only if you used it while on the ground.

...Writing it like that, it's starting to sound more bad than I thought...
Maybe I'm missing something.

[Flaoc]

gave it one more shot

RA/HU

ideal larc 135 atk (60 light)
saiki set 120 atk each
weak drink
team buff lvl 7
cheesecake
te friend partner shifta buff (didnt ask her if she made her fp have maxed advance or just strike)
2976 r atk

well im done now

[SPOILER-BOX]
http://grabilla.com/05806-b48efe7f-30c7-4217-973d-512bee4073d9.png

http://grabilla.com/05806-7856b89c-510d-45e6-aaa9-0a72c0cf27e5.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[TaigaUC]

On lower difficulty, yes.
Since blowing your way = OP, right?

On higher difficulty, to be honest it's kind of lacking, damage-wise.
Still fun to use, though.

That's kind of an accurate description for current Braver in general.

The new PA is strong, but it's not amazing, I don't think.
For pure focus damage, the impreciseness and dashing make it inferior to something like Sakura Endo.
But I'd say it replaces Asagiri Rendan for dashing and Shunka for dash+attack (unless you need to be more precise).

It also somewhat replaces Kanran Kikyou, but only in a way similar to how Speed Rain compares to Slide Shaker (ie. 180 vs 360).
Or it simply just feels faster at killing than spamming Kanran Kikyou multiple times. AFAIK it also doesn't knock down like Kanran does.
Kanran is probably better for building Katana Combat, as it's faster and hits all surrounding enemies twice.

[Bellion]

Your arguement is that Gu/Ga Wonda has a bigger modifier.

[SPOILER-BOX]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y269JPzZIg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Just for you.

Has anyone mentioned aerial combat with Guren Tessen? Katana actually has some decent aerial combat not temporarily now, it's so good for that.

[TaigaUC]

I've used Guren Tessen for Goldrada head/back weak points, Biblas, etc.
Seems okay, but difficult to be precise.

[Agastya]

end attract is pretty cool, not replacing satcan at all, its basically penarrow for rifles

good for popping chains but i think you get more out of sataim, there isnt a big enough target to test it on without the target being horribly mutilated, maybe i'll use 1* instead of ares

all these rodos videos make me laugh, you could probably do a sh rodos video and one cycle it with fake silhouette, on the average "small" weak point only one of the hits will actually hit the weak point while the other two will just do smaller damage against the body shots compared to wb weak point

haven't played with the other ones, heard katana pa is fun, don't care about the others

barantsion seems to be light aoe burst with five hits of ice/light mixed ina fterwards, final overhead is definitely ice so you don't get the satisfaction of 100k finisher on darkers, overall 10/10 recommended, does more damage off light than it does ice so it's usable by most forces with light investment. good sidegrade to fomelgion

[Punisher106]

Sorry, haven't read the thread, but just tried the new Katana PA.... uhhh, is it just me, or is it super OP and in immediate need of a nerf?

http://puu.sh/7pdAc.png

I've tried End Attraction, myself. It feels like the rifle equivalent of Meteor Fist. So I don't got much to say about it. As for the other PAs, I have yet to try those.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Sorry, haven't read the thread, but just tried the new Katana PA.... uhhh, is it just me, or is it super OP and in immediate need of a nerf?

1: Stop playing on SH. Things get one shotted by uncharged shunka stabs, sneezes, and gentle breezes.

2: Have you not seen a decent FO like... ever?

[Flaoc]

all these rodos videos make me laugh, you could probably do a sh rodos video and one cycle it with fake silhouette, on the average "small" weak point only one of the hits will actually hit the weak point while the other two will just do smaller damage against the body shots compared to wb weak point




the pictures are people damage testing the new pa nothing more and rodos is the best practice dummy we got so far

[Maenara]

It'd be super nice if Sega gave us a practice mode where we can choose any selection of enemies to fight against simultaneously(Up to several limits of course) in an XQ style stage, no drops or EXP. Also add non-moving/attacking dummy enemies to the selection.

[Flaoc]

It'd be super nice if Sega gave us a practice mode where we can choose any selection of enemies to fight against simultaneously(Up to several limits of course) in an XQ style stage, no drops or EXP. Also add non-moving/attacking dummy enemies to the selection.

fully agree with this

[Maenara]

fully agree with this

Hell, if Sega wanted to, they could make an entirely new type of crafting where you created XTraining Discs by combining together essences of specific enemies, and assign each disc a random EXP and Meseta reward that loosely correlates to the difficulty of the Disc you created.

[Vatallus]

[SPOILER-BOX]
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y269JPzZIg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Just for you.

Has anyone mentioned aerial combat with Guren Tessen? Katana actually has some decent aerial combat not temporarily now, it's so good for that.

Thank you. This thing was really never a debate. I never once said the multipliers were wrong, I never once said Gu/Ga Wonda has less of a modifier. I tried explaining to someone who might not be using Bal Rodos as their test why certain people are hitting so high. All before someone has to barge in with their epeen.

That said, I don't know if schools still teach this but in Multiplication 50% more of a number like x2 would not be x2.5, it would of been x3. x2 to x2.5 would have been 50% increase. And if I am not mistaken a x4 modifier is only 300%.

This probably doesn't need to be explained at all, but for some reason I felt like it does.



That said. I am waiting for End Attraction nerf.

[Flaoc]

That said. I am waiting for End Attraction nerf.

pls no there are situations where sat cannon is still a better choice to use

[Maenara]

pls no there are situations where sat cannon is still a better choice to use

Satellite Cannon never got nerfed as much as it should have.

[wefwq]

That's kind of an accurate description for current Braver in general.

The new PA is strong, but it's not amazing, I don't think.
For pure focus damage, the impreciseness and dashing make it inferior to something like Sakura Endo.
But I'd say it replaces Asagiri Rendan for dashing and Shunka for dash+attack (unless you need to be more precise).

It also somewhat replaces Kanran Kikyou, but only in a way similar to how Speed Rain compares to Slide Shaker (ie. 180 vs 360).
Or it simply just feels faster at killing than spamming Kanran Kikyou multiple times. AFAIK it also doesn't knock down like Kanran does.
Kanran is probably better for building Katana Combat, as it's faster and hits all surrounding enemies twice.
Yeah, sakura still the best damage dealing PA for now, since it's just really easy to use and fast too, but i don't think it can replace kanran.
Kanran still has bigger AoE compared to guren, this will allow us to take enemies that stand on sparse formation more efficiently, even with more PP cost.
Guren however, able to deal more damage with far more less PP required, but the catch is smaller AoE and harder positioning.

[Ordy]

Thank you. This thing was really never a debate. I never once said the multipliers were wrong, I never once said Gu/Ga Wonda has less of a modifier. I tried explaining to someone who might not be using Bal Rodos as their test why certain people are hitting so high. All before someone has to barge in with their epeen.

That said, I don't know if schools still teach this but in Multiplication 50% more of a number like x2 would not be x2.5, it would of been x3. x2 to x2.5 would have been 50% increase. And if I am not mistaken a x4 modifier is only 300%.

This probably doesn't need to be explained at all, but for some reason I felt like it does.



That said. I am waiting for End Attraction nerf.

The most important factor you guys are missing about that whole Bal Rodos and weak spot multipliers discussion is this line from the stat tables:

"防御は高 Lv でも一桁と非常に低い。"

In fact, unlike the other mobs or even the facility Bal Rodos, the Coast Bal Rodos have a way lower base defense. The standard base R-def for a lv.65 target is 258, where a lv.65 Coast Bal Rodos has 10 R-def.

Lots of targets have that 2.5 multiplier but afaik, only coast rodos has that kind of pathetic defense.

GuGa Wonda have indeed the highest r-atk multiplier on their hemoroide core, that's why you can land some nice +150,000 damage zero distance *feelsgood*


pls no there are situations where sat cannon is still a better choice to use

I completely agree with this, even though Ent Attraction is in the same absurd tier as Satellite Cannon, it shouldn't be used as a replacement, more like a convenient alternative. I personally love the fact that you can charge it mid-air, or the double/triple hit effect that can break Zesh leg and make it fall in one PA. Still have to try it on Ragne, wonder if we can full break a leg using one Ent Attraction.
Usually it goes like this: WB > damage to 1st break > WB > damage until WB fades off > deal 1 damage to full break and stun Ragne. (either that or sat cannon+WB on 2nd hit).

Should be fun to use on Vardha too.

[Agastya]

the pictures are people damage testing the new pa nothing more and rodos is the best practice dummy we got so far
ringa is another good test target, especially if you want to test things against a smaller hitbox

i can fully understand why people do things against rodos, but i prefer using ringa. its just okay with it. he just kinda rolls up to you and is like "oh. you're testing something? alright, just.. okay, here, just tell me when you're done." he's down for it. ringa's here to help.

rodos is good for having way way way more hp though, yeah. when i went to test barantsion i HAD to use rodos because ringa just.. died.

[Rehal]

@Vatallus
[SPOILER-BOX]

Vibrace only gives around 50% more damage to melees.
Not sure what thing has 50% less than melee here so I'll go with vibrace first. _(:3」∠)_
Vibrace's weakspot multiplier is 4x to melee, 2x to others.
Or put it in your way: +300% damage bonus for melee and +100% damage bonus for others.

If it's vibrace's weakspot for melee vs rodos's jaw then it becomes like 4x vs 2.5x, or +300% vs +150%

How did you manage to get a "50% more damage to melees"?



That said, I don't know if schools still teach this but in Multiplication 50% more of a number like x2 would not be x2.5, it would of been x3.

50% more on x2 = x3, you said.


x2 to x2.5 would have been 50% increase. And if I am not mistaken a x4 modifier is only 300%.

This probably doesn't need to be explained at all, but for some reason I felt like it does.

Now you are saying 50% increase on x2 = x2.5.

+100% to +150% is the one that increases by 50%.

Your inconsistency is making things confusing. I think you should stop transforming numbers to your liking then get confused by it yourself. (´･ω･｀)[/SPOILER-BOX]

[wefwq]

I just tried the End Attract PA and damn, i think this PA will stick on my palette forever.

[TaigaUC]

Dunno what you guys are arguing about.
Anyway, my friend and I killed a bunch of SH bosses with End Attract or whatever it's called.

Ringarda:
Didn't work well because his head is so small. Two of us doing it still killed him before he could get up from stun.

Bal Lodos:
Killed him in 2 shots with WB.

Dragon EX:
Didn't go well twice, then flattened him the third time. He moves a lot.

Biol Meduna:
Head small, doesn't work well.

Quartz Dragon:
As long as you shoot down his body, it seems effective in stunlocking him to death.

I tried it on some trash mobs too, works okay as long as they aren't running all over the place.

[GoldenFalcon]

I tried it on some trash mobs too, works okay as long as they aren't running all over the place.

How often do you use it uncharged or half charged?

[Chdata]

That guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Let's say I hit 10k.

4x 10k = 40k

300% 10k = 10k+10k+10k (or 100% + 100% + 100%) = 30k

According to him, 4x is actually 300%


Now if you wanted to say how much damage was added on top of your base value (on top of your base 100%), then you'd say 300%...

Or if you were saying, +300% damage, instead of just 300% damage.

[GoldenFalcon]

That guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Let's say I hit 10k.

4x 10k = 40k

300% 10k = 10k+10k+10k (or 100% + 100% + 100%) = 30k

According to him, 4x is actually 300%


Now if you wanted to say how much damage was added on top of your base value (on top of your base 100%), then you'd say 300%...

Or if you were saying, +300% damage, instead of just 300% damage.

Since no bonuses are additive in this game, +20% and 1.2x and a 20% [word like increase] are all the same thing

When he specifically uses 300% to mean 3x, he's just being confusing on purpose by not saying 3x

[TaigaUC]

I don't remember whether I charged it or not. Probably to level 1.
2 takes some time, probably too long before Gravity/Stun wears off.
The damage wasn't amazing or anything, unless you manage to hit their heads.
Probably better off spamming Glory Rain or Piercing Shell, maybe.

[Chdata]

how do you miss their heads? xd

[GoldenFalcon]

I don't remember whether I charged it or not. Probably to level 1.
2 takes some time, probably too long before Gravity/Stun wears off.
The damage wasn't amazing or anything, unless you manage to hit their heads.
Probably better off spamming Glory Rain or Piercing Shell, maybe.

uncharged End Attract is like a higher damage&cost version of Piercing Shell, although it ruins standing snipe

[milranduil]

That guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Let's say I hit 10k.

4x 10k = 40k

300% 10k = 10k+10k+10k (or 100% + 100% + 100%) = 30k

According to him, 4x is actually 300%


Now if you wanted to say how much damage was added on top of your base value (on top of your base 100%), then you'd say 300%...

Or if you were saying, +300% damage, instead of just 300% damage.

He meant +300%.

Since no bonuses are additive in this game, +20% and 1.2x and a 20% [word like increase] are all the same thing

When he specifically uses 300% to mean 3x, he's just being confusing on purpose by not saying 3x

+20% and 20% increase are not the same...

200% with +20% = 220%
200% with 20% increase = 240%

[GoldenFalcon]

200% with +20% = 220%

The only place in the entire game where you see this is crafting, so it's moot

[TaigaUC]

@Chdata
Because trash mobs aren't always all the same height.

[LunaSolstice]

I hope Sega releases a rifle that boosts End attraction's damage like they did with Satellite Cannon.

[cheapgunner]

I hope Sega releases a rifle that boosts End attraction's damage like they did with Satellite Cannon.

It will probably be a 13* rifle that either drops from Double's Falz form or some other big boss at the end of episode 3/beginning of ep. 4.

[Nyansan]

It will probably be a 13* rifle that either drops from Double's Falz form or some other big boss at the end of episode 3/beginning of ep. 4.

Or they're gonna do an elder and only let Double's hunar form drop it

[Maenara]

Or they're gonna do an elder and only let Double's hunar form drop it

Or they could pull a Hunar/Apprentice and let them drop a non-cookie cutter single PA weapon.

Falz Dourumble's unique weapon drop will most likely be a knuckle, anyways. It's the only weapon that works for some of what they do.

[Chdata]

they'll drop more 13* with 30% more pp cost for 15% dmg obv

[EvilMag]

I have a feeling double may introduce 14*s but have nearly unfindable rates.

[Maenara]

I have a feeling double may introduce 14*s but have nearly unfindable rates.

Double, probably not. Profound Darkness, probably.

[Achelousaurus]

That new WL pa is crap. Looks neat but the damage is pathetic.
I really don't get the point cause it's not like its mobility is anything other pas can't do just as good or better, while doing decent damage.

Guren Tessen is awesome. It looks super badass.
It's also pretty good for using. A bit behind Sakura Endo but no charge, which is an advantage cause sometimes even the 0.4 second charge of Sakura can be too long...but that also means 10% less dmg.

There are plenty uses, it's a very nice gap closer.
It just has so much wasted potential. You can zip around all day but even for 10pp the damage is pitiful.

It seriously needs an ilbarta like mechanic, zip 4 times and the slash gets 100% more damage, zip 7 times and it gets 200% more damage or something like that.
Sadly lower numbers are sorta pointless cause you could just use Sakura Endo instead.

Fall Nocturne...well it looks sorta cool.
But that's about it, very little actual use. And the damage is very unimpressive, too. It would have been good if it didn't go down so much, unless you are high up you will just get back on the ground and lose your gear.
So very pointless. What we truly need for TD is another symphonic dive. Nothing else has even remotely as much height gain, reach and homing capabilities AND good damage ontop.
What we need is a pa you can easily combine with Dive for TAJA.

[Maenara]

That new WL pa is crap. Looks neat but the damage is pathetic.
I really don't get the point cause it's not like its mobility is anything other pas can't do just as good or better, while doing decent damage.


No other PA can move you sideways quite like Adapt Spin does.

[Flaoc]

the rates on these disc drops is way too awful and naturally the only 17 i dont have is guren and obviously it refuses to drop

[ZynischQ]

That new WL pa is crap. Looks neat but the damage is pathetic.
I really don't get the point cause it's not like its mobility is anything other pas can't do just as good or better, while doing decent damage.

Guren Tessen is awesome. It looks super badass.
It's also pretty good for using. A bit behind Sakura Endo but no charge, which is an advantage cause sometimes even the 0.4 second charge of Sakura can be too long...but that also means 10% less dmg.

There are plenty uses, it's a very nice gap closer.
It just has so much wasted potential. You can zip around all day but even for 10pp the damage is pitiful.


Adapt Spin is not a PA for damaging, it's one to quickly reposition yourself.
The thing about adapt is the JA circle appears right after you use the PA and persists for the entire duration of the PA, so you can cut it short to switch to a damaging PA without losing a JA.
It's also useful for quickly killing trash mobs in SH with a sufficiently powerful weapon.

In terms of pp to damage ratio, using guren with one dash then end slash puts it above sakura, even with the 10% charge bonus.

[milranduil]

the rates on these disc drops is way too awful and naturally the only 17 i dont have is guren and obviously it refuses to drop

naturally the only 17 i have so far is the td lol

[Maenara]

Adapt Spin is not a PA for damaging, it's one to quickly reposition yourself.
The thing about adapt is the JA circle appears right after you use the PA and persists for the entire duration of the PA, so you can cut it short to switch to a damaging PA without losing a JA.
It's also useful for quickly killing trash mobs in SH with a sufficiently powerful weapon.


Also, it positions you perfectly for Holding Current.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

There are plenty uses, it's a very nice gap closer.
It just has so much wasted potential. You can zip around all day but even for 10pp the damage is pitiful.


It would be absurd if too much of its damage was frontloaded in this case. If each cut had half of the PA's notation, the dash would be tsukimi with half the PP cost, and mashing the PA would almost always be better than dash -> second attack sans the hitbox. Not to mention how mashing would create flat out higher dps than using it the normal way.

How the damage is distributed is fine as is.

[LonelyGaruga]

As it currently is, mashing Guren already has better DPS than using it normally. It's just not very PP efficient at all.

[Kondibon]

As it currently is, mashing Guren already has better DPS than using it normally.... It does? . _.

[LonelyGaruga]

1480 pow/s when spamming it compared to 1388 using it normally. It's only like, 6.3% better DPS for 250% more PP expense (Guren has a 20/80% damage distribution on its hits, so 5 of 1st hit = 1 full use of the PA), so it's not very practical unless you know the target is going to die before you run out of PP.

Which basically means it's an awesome way to finish a fight.

[TaigaUC]

Why does Guren Tessen sometimes dash multiple times back and forth before slashing?
Lag? Bug? Or some kind of trick?

[Kondibon]

1480 pow/s when spamming it compared to 1388 using it normally. It's only like, 6.3% better DPS for 250% more PP expense (Guren has a 20/80% damage distribution on its hits, so 5 of 1st hit = 1 full use of the PA), so it's not very practical unless you know the target is going to die before you run out of PP.

Which basically means it's an awesome way to finish a fight.Oh, ok, I thought it was a larger amount. I mostly spam it for fun, it's nice to know it's at least doing slightly more damage against a single target. I think the finish would out damage it more in terms of AoE without zondeel though.


Why does Guren Tessen sometimes dash multiple times back and forth before slashing?
Lag? Bug? Or some kind of trick?If you mean like this. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksRHY84a-Kg) That's just having the PA on all 3 palette slots and spamming it without using a direction input for the second slash.

EDIT: You technically never have to do the second slash. I use guren as a cheap approach constantly when I'm low on pp since you can follow it up with normals too.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, I've done it by accident a bunch of times.
I thought there was a delay after the initial dash though.

[Kondibon]

I thought there was a delay after the initial dash though.Nope, you can go again as soon as you hit. I could actually do it faster than in the video, but that would A)Make me dizzy from all the camera spazzing, and B) kill my recording framerate even more than it already was.

It's worth mentioning that if you're playing some combination of fighter you can use it twice in a row to get the finish on the front for brave stance if you're already in front.

[Xaelouse]

A PA used only to re-position shouldn't cost 20 pp. At least parallel slider does some damage

[infiniteeverlasting]

how does the katana PA work? sometimes i don't get the second hit in...?

[Kondibon]

A PA used only to re-position shouldn't cost 20 pp. At least parallel slider does some damageIt costs 10 pp per part not 20 pp just to activate. If you only use the first part it's 10 pp and it won't even let you use the second part if you don't have enough pp left.


how does the katana PA work? sometimes i don't get the second hit in...?Hold a direction at the end of the PA.

[Xaelouse]

Oops, I was talking about Adapt Spin with that post.

[Kondibon]

Oops, I was talking about Adapt Spin with that post.My bad then. o wo

[Achelousaurus]

Huh. That's the "use" for Adapt Spin then.
Super situational though and most of the time just moving yourself does the trick, especially cause Adapt Spin doesn't cover all that much ground and costs as much as pas doing good damage.

Guren though, sure the dash spam might have high dps but it's utterly useless.
Wasting away all your pp so quickly for very little damage in result is never good.
So the entire mechanic is pretty pointless overall.

[Kondibon]

Guren though, sure the dash spam might have high dps but it's utterly useless.
Wasting away all your pp so quickly for very little damage in result is never good.
So the entire mechanic is pretty pointless overall.Oh, yeah, it's totally useless, just REALLY fun. The only time I use it for something actually serious is when I want to use Gurren and stay on the same side of something... so I use it twice in a row instead of once, but that's about it.

[LonelyGaruga]

Just wanna point out that 2x Guren without followup is roughly the same damage as a Kanran, but costs 5 less PP. It's not that weak.

[Kondibon]

Just wanna point out that 2x Guren without followup is roughly the same damage as a Kanran, but costs 5 less PP. It's not that weak.But it's also got a much smaller AoE, they're kinda used for different things. Even in situations involving zondeel wouldn't you just be better off using Sakura. I mean, unless you can kill mobs with those two hits I guess, but if that's the case does it even matter what you do?

[LonelyGaruga]

I only said it wasn't as weak as it was being made out to be, not that it replaces Kanran. Although Guren sacrifices PP efficiency and width, the damage/speed ratio it has is very good and shouldn't be put down on the sole basis of being PP efficient and low on a per hit basis. It has roles it excels in and can't justifiably be called useless because it's not PP efficient. Gotta look at speed too, and Guren is 12f. That's the fastest attack in the game as far as I'm aware, and multiple times faster than stuff like Kanran.

That aside, I'd imagine Hatou and Kazan would be fairly good options for attacking Zondeel'd mobs.

[TaigaUC]

Adapt Spin is good for making yourself look like a ridiculous human slinky.
They should have called it "Sidestep Slinky".

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

That aside, I'd imagine Hatou and Kazan would be fairly good options for attacking Zondeel'd mobs.

If they're zondeeled you may as well hatou as always. Guren would be the next best option from a dps standpoint (technically it would be tsukimi, but your PP, and MPA would hate you for it).

Kazan as powerful as it is, is still a little behind in dps (but is apparently on par with shunka according to swiki so... lol). Better for spread out hardened targets.

[Hrith]

Crafted Kazan-nadeshiko also keeps your gear gauge up if Katana Gear is active, that's really useful. It's quite good at hitting weak spots that are up there, like the heads of bipedal giants on Halcotan. Between that and Guren-tessen... :3

[Achelousaurus]

After doing CQ2 I realized Guren is actually good.
Still mostly niche, not as good as kanran but without a charge you can stay in midair so it has its uses.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Niche isn't the word I'd use to describe it as good as it is for mobbing. It's the second highest dps among the commonly-used katana PAs, and the 2nd most efficient, only being beat by hatou, and shunka in those respective qualities. It's also a distance closer, and is the best thing katanas got for fighting in the air since KC/asagiri.

The only flaw it has is precisely hitting weak points with how it maneuvers characters. Sakura end is now the niche PA because that's the only thing it does better than guren at this point (aside from damage, but at a lower damage : pp ratio, and lower dps).

[KLMS1]

Guren is also nice because it basically has dodge functionality built in. Plus zipping back and forth around enemies tends to confuse them something fierce.

[Achelousaurus]

Sakura is by no means niche now. It still has higher dmg than Guren. Guren isn't actually faster when you consider how long it takes to use the slash and without that dmg is super low.
Zipping around multiple times is pointless for damage because in order to get any decent damage you use far too much pp and even if your momentary dps is high, your damage over 1 minute or more is low because you have to refill pp.

Maybe Ketos Proi fueled Guren zipping into KC Finish is a thing but I don't have Proi on my s-atk mag and I don't really want to check.

And yes, Guren really lacks precision. Not that it's a big thing with katana's aoe in the first place but there are a number of weakpoints even sakura endo can hit without trouble.
But not just that, with the dash and the aoe it's not that easy to get the right enemies and the moment any of them move you might end up in the wrong spot and hit only 1 or sometimes even only air.

Katana's best feature is the reliability and Guren really lacks that.

[Qualia]

Guren's damage with both hits is very close to sakura endo's, and is more pp efficient. It also has a significantly larger AoE. It's also one of the most effective means of travel in the game, given there isn't a monster to auto target onto. If anything, it's a very reliable PA when necessary. The ONLY thing it lacks is precision, but even that can be alleviated with proper positioning.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Sakura is by no means niche now. It still has higher dmg than Guren.

Does not offset the fact sakura costs 25% more PP than guren for less than 25% more damage. It is not efficient, plus:


Guren isn't actually faster when you consider how long it takes to use the slash and without that dmg is super low.

Guren still has higher dps when you use both cuts.


And yes, Guren really lacks precision.

That's its only weakness compared to sakura end, which is why guren is better to use in all other situations which = sakura end being niche.


But not just that, with the dash and the aoe it's not that easy to get the right enemies and the moment any of them move you might end up in the wrong spot and hit only 1 or sometimes even only air.

That's user error.

[LonelyGaruga]

I don't see how precision is a niche use. This isn't like Tsukimi or Fudou. Sakura End is about 28% stronger than Guren when you're only looking at the second slash (because you aren't hitting every mob with the dashing portion), too, and although Sakura has lower DPS, its slashes also begin faster. "Niche" is a bad way to describe a PA you should still use regularly.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I don't see how precision is a niche use. This isn't like Tsukimi or Fudou. Sakura End is about 28% stronger than Guren when you're only looking at the second slash (because you aren't hitting every mob with the dashing portion), too, and although Sakura has lower DPS, its slashes also begin faster. "Niche" is a bad way to describe a PA you should still use regularly.

If I use it for one specific purpose (precision), it fits my definition of niche. How often I use it is a different matter.

[Punisher106]

But what if you compare Guren with a standardly decent katana, with a Sange that has the Sakura latent up to level 3? Is Guren still better than sakura, in that regard?

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

But what if you compare Guren with a standardly decent katana, with a Sange that has the Sakura latent up to level 3? Is Guren still better than sakura, in that regard?

With sange, and using both PAs they're pretty even in dps, and damage : pp, with sakura still probably very slightly behind, but it's near irrelevant at that point.

If you mean to compare a crafted sange's sakura, to any other decent katana's guren... well we have red weapon potential now, so I don't think it's worth really trying to compare.

[Kokurokoki]

Guren for Katanas is very strong. You can easily hit 10k damage on weakpoints using subpar weapons with stances. On top of that it is very good for positioning which lets you move out of the way of enemy attacks because the first hit is so fast.

[Kondibon]

Guren for Katanas is very strong. You can easily hit 10k damage on weakpoints using subpar weapons with stances. On top of that it is very good for positioning which lets you move out of the way of enemy attacks because the first hit is so fast.I'm not going to deny that Guren has good damage, and I'm not trying to look down on you or anything, but 10k damage on weakpoints isn't that impressive if we don't have a point of reference since I can hit almost 30k with it in some situations and I'm pretty sure even that's not a lot. x:

Unless you're talking about the first hit, in which case carry on.

[Kokurokoki]

I'm not going to deny that Guren has good damage, and I'm not trying to look down on you or anything, but 10k damage on weakpoints isn't that impressive if we don't have a point of reference since I can hit almost 30k with it in some situations and I'm pretty sure even that's not a lot. x:

Unless you're talking about the first hit, in which case carry on.

I'm using Vita Vastall+10 extended to 13 with 50 wind element. No potentials, and around 1600 S-ATK total (weapon + stats) with Average + Fury Stance and +20% into Just Attacks from the Hunter tree. I think its around 11000 damage when I hit weakpoints compared to my other PAs which are around 8000-9000 on weakpoints. I've been able to hit a little higher (I think around 20k) on Dark Falz EQs but I don't remember the numbers because generally everyone is PA spamming it.

I guess my point was that Guren is pretty strong for its 20 pp cost, and you have the option of cutting that in half if you are too far away or don't have enough pp for follow up attacks. It's a gap closer, can help you change your position, and does fairly high damage in one hit. Compare that to the other two dashing PAs, which cost 30 PP can be interrupted, and are less safe against certain enemies because you are fully committing to an attack.

I'm genuinely impressed, since I'm not really optimized as far as equipment goes and I generally play Phashion Star. I could probably do a lot more damage with weak + fury stance and a 10-13-star weapon with potentials, but I want to wait until I have 10 skill points to max it right away.

I'm not sure how the heck are you supposed to hit 10k on the first hit, but if you find a way let me know. o_O

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

I'm not sure how the heck are you supposed to hit 10k on the first hit, but if you find a way let me know. o_O

Doesn't happen outside of hitting weakpoints/damage boosting PSE effects.

[Qualia]

Doesn't happen outside of hitting weakpoints/damage boosting PSE effects.

This. I can manage up to a 13k dash and 56k slash on weakpoints using a Red Katana or on-element Yasha. Not too impressive considering my mediocre stats and lack of a 60 element 13* katana.

[Kondibon]

The most I've done with the slash was like ~40k to a boost seed in a VHAQ with wise and weak stance and a Zero Range PSE. :wacko:

[Achelousaurus]

Oh.
Been running around with lvl 12 Guren cause higher doesn't drop for me.
Now that I got lvl 14 (epicness ._.) it's actually as strong as Sakura Endo.
I guess at lvl 17 it should actually be stronger.

Still, I wouldn't call Sakura niche cause of the aforementioned reliability.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Oh.
Been running around with lvl 12 Guren cause higher doesn't drop for me.
Now that I got lvl 14 (epicness ._.) it's actually as strong as Sakura Endo.
I guess at lvl 17 it should actually be stronger.

Still, I wouldn't call Sakura niche cause of the aforementioned reliability.

Not even going to get into semantics with you.

It is what it is; guren tessen brings more damage for the PP, and delivers it faster with a distance closer, and super armor (which is something else sakura end doesn't have which I've forgotten to mention). The one role/niche sakura end fills that guren doesn't already do better is its precision.

[LonelyGaruga]

Sakura End still does more damage in one use because of Average S Charge and is almost as PP efficient as a result. It's also faster in the initial hits. Having to reposition because of Guren's movement is also often a disadvantage, and not having to do so makes Sakura more usable in combination with other PAs.

I take it that you're just running SH where you can one-shot everything with Guren so none of these things matter?

[Qualia]

Sakura End still does more damage in one use because of Average S Charge and is almost as PP efficient as a result. It's also faster in the initial hits. Having to reposition because of Guren's movement is also often a disadvantage, and not having to do so makes Sakura more usable in combination with other PAs.

I take it that you're just running SH where you can one-shot everything with Guren so none of these things matter?

Literally hitting more with guren than sakura endo on Kuron XH. The numbers don't lie, dawg.

[Punisher106]

Personally, I find Guren useful as a defensive PA. I only have it at level 1, since I don't know where it drops, but in UQs, it helps me stay alive, compared to sakura.

[LunaSolstice]

Drops often in the Kuron free field. Level 17 dropped on the first day in XH.

[KLMS1]

Lucky you, took like a dozen runs for me to get a drop past level 11... ;_;

RNGesus is such a tsundere.

[Z-0]

Guren is better DPS but Sakura is far better for precision.

It executes faster and does more damage -- the superior choice on things without weakspots.

[LonelyGaruga]

Literally hitting more with guren than sakura endo on Kuron XH. The numbers don't lie, dawg.

Sakura has 1450 power at level 17 and qualifies for S Charge skills (effectively 1595 power for comparison purposes).
Guren has 1480 power at level 17 and does not.

It's impossible to hit for more with Guren in one use unless you don't have level 17 Sakura or you skipped S Charge.

[KLMS1]

You do realise that those listed "power ratings" don't always mean much in practice right.
Also pretty sure my lv. 16 Guren hits at least as hard as my lv. 17 Sakura at full charge, though that's admittedly just a general impression rather than the conclusion of systematic comparision.

Definitely better for dealing with packs and/or mobile targets though, as well as maintaining height to keep hitting hard-to-reach weakspots (eg. Rocketship Zeshy head core).

[Shinamori]

Why not jusst throw up a video?

[Sora3100]

I have both level 17 Sakura and Guren.
Overall Guren hits more. (with avg stance charge)

[LonelyGaruga]

You do realise that those listed "power ratings" don't always mean much in practice right.

Yeah, that's why I check to make sure before I say anything. And sure enough, Sakura and Guren both do exactly their notations in damage. Like a good 90% of PAs in this game.


Why not jusst throw up a video?

Would if I had Guren 17. I'm still disc hunting and grinding (71/75 currently).

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Sakura End still does more damage in one use because of Average S Charge and is almost as PP efficient as a result.

Base power rating of both PAs at 17 is identical (with guren having 30 more base power). Sakura end gets an extra 10% damage from charge, but costs 25% more PP. My guren is ~30k damage with shifta drink vs a non-weak enemy with both hits. Sakura is about 32k. So sakura is about 7% more damage for 25% more PP (I had these numbers and lvl17 guren for weeks now, but no one really asked for the numbers). Also, guren does about ~22% more dps than the fastest possible sakura -> snatch JA -> sakura spam according to swiki chart.


Having to reposition because of Guren's movement is also often a disadvantage

That's part of the precision advantage I mention with sakura end. I still use it VS the toy bear, rabbit, and house darkers as well as the toy car in kuron XH until I break its nose since it would be more damage to precisely hit their weak points instead of using guren, dashing through them, and potentially hitting the wrong hitbox half the time.

I just use the word 'niche' to describe sakura end now because on things without weakpoints/with less finicky hitboxes for weak points (eg, the toy car's ball after its nose is broken, codetta idetta's joints, etc), guren is better than sakura in almost every other meaningful way.


I take it that you're just running SH where you can one-shot everything with Guren so none of these things matter?

XH. I wouldn't bring up the superior dps so much if I was playing on a difficulty where 90% of everything dies in one PA.

Guren tessen is highly effective in kuron XH because of how easily it hits the axe giants in the face due its super generous vertical reach.

Almost forgot; the delay between the two hits of guren VS pitta wada/parata picoda is long enough for their weak point to pop out to catch guren's second cut. Sakura's two cuts hit too close together for that happen at all. Typically need to kanran first to make short work of the jack-in-the-box darkers with sakura end on XH.


Personally, I find Guren useful as a defensive PA. I only have it at level 1, since I don't know where it drops, but in UQs, it helps me stay alive, compared to sakura.

Going from 1-17 is a 25% damage boost, btw.

[Bellion]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag232/altumbra/pso20150903_141941_000_zpsk8hx4ty4.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

PA notations at this point for the most part are accurate. Give Guren that 10% from S Charge and it would beat Sakura.

[Shinamori]

I guess that could work too. :v