Overall best Ideal weapons?

[SlN]

Obviously the Rifle is god tier, opinions on other weapons?

[GoldenFalcon]

Why not TMG? Chain on boss is just as good

[Chdata]

bows lol



something something to cast ragrants on darker bosses for fo

[Poyonche]

Maybe Talis ?

talis tech bonus + ideal potent + light weakness = boss annihilation.

Partizan and Knuckles sounds good to me.

[LonelyGaruga]

Ideal rod is better than the talis since composite techs are Force's main bossing strength. With a WB and a x2 weak point, Ragrants charges composite techs in 5-6 uses, depending on your gear. Maybe 7-8 depending on quality of affixes. I dunno if I would really call an Ideal rod a good choice though, Force is rather poor at bossing compared to other classes.

As far as other choices, I think this is fine for a guideline.


saw a list on 2ch where they rank weapons based on their bossing capabilities

http://yomogi.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/ogame3/1437220314/l50

S rank knuckle, Barettobou (bullet bow)

A rank partisan, dual blade, assault rifle, twin machine gun

Main thing is partisan and maybe DB, since Fi/Hu and Fi/Bo are things, but I'm fairly sure that Ideal come very close in performance to Fighter equippable partisans and DBs. The rest should be solid for Ideal picks.

As an aside, there really isn't any reason PSO-W can't make tier lists like this, so why aren't there any actual legit attempts?

[Imjake]

how is it no one knows how to make a build for each of the weapons/classes in this game? Every class can be ridiculously OP.

[Flaoc]

Ideal rod is better than the talis since composite techs are Force's main bossing strength. With a WB and a x2 weak point, Ragrants charges composite techs in 5-6 uses, depending on your gear. Maybe 7-8 depending on quality of affixes. I dunno if I would really call an Ideal rod a good choice though, Force is rather poor at bossing compared to other classes.

As far as other choices, I think this is fine for a guideline.



Main thing is partisan and maybe DB, since Fi/Hu and Fi/Bo are things, but I'm fairly sure that Ideal come very close in performance to Fighter equippable partisans and DBs. The rest should be solid for Ideal picks.

As an aside, there really isn't any reason PSO-W can't make tier lists like this, so why aren't there any actual legit attempts?

people too scared i guess? i wouldnt mind seeing a direct thread with the op having tiers for both mobbing and bossing

[untrustful]

Let's start

S Rank
Gunslash

A Rank
Sword
Partisan
Knuckles

B Rank
Double Sabers
Twin Daggers
Twin Swords

C Rank
Boots

D Rank
Assault Rifle
Twin Mechs

E Rank
Rod
Talis
Wand
Launcher

[nathanielzor]

Not even gonna ask why untrustful decided to invalidate his entire list by putting Assault Rifle in D-Rank.

Important ones:
Assault Rifle
Knuckles
Twin Daggers
TMGs
Rods (Barantsion and ragrants make this actually viable now yay!)
Talis (For Il Barta, better off grabbing a rod for compound techs at this point though.)
Gunslash (If you're really into that chain trigger Fi/Gu life.)

Everything else is garbage and don't waste your points. (Until they fix the fact that Fighter crafted weapons are better at basically everything than actual main class weapons.)

[Superia]

Isn't Ideal Br/Ra still higher boss damage than any other bow Ra/Br can use?

[Flaoc]

Isn't Ideal Br/Ra still higher boss damage than any other bow Ra/Br can use?

not 100% sure on this but for brhu this is the best bow for banish x2 kamikaze .. either this or glayrow

[Xaelouse]

Remember that weapons aren't suddenly garbage because they aren't equippable on FI
HU:
Wired Lance or Partizan
FI:
Twin Daggers or Knuckles
RA:
Rifle
GU:
TMGs
FO:
Rod
TE:
none
BR:
Bow
BO:
Dual blades or Jet Boots

[SlN]

Remember that weapons aren't suddenly garbage because they aren't equippable on FI
HU:
Wired Lance or Partizan
FI:
Twin Daggers or Knuckles
RA:
Rifle
GU:
TMGs
FO:
Rod
TE:
none
BR:
Bow
BO:
Dual blades or Jet Boots

Isn't Ideal Ice/dark talis better for bossing?

Also, im not saying this is wrong , but why do people choose ideal jet boots, isnt the dual blades far superior for bossing with photon fever? Sorry just trying to understand.

[LonelyGaruga]

Ideal rod is for composite techs. Ice is good for talis, any other element isn't worth getting.

Not only are JBs average for bossing, Gal JBs are roughly the same strength as Ideal on bosses anyway. 'course, those aren't trade-ins, but anyone with Gal JBs wouldn't be missing anything by skipping Ideal JBs.

[Flaoc]

Ideal rod is for composite techs. Ice is good for talis, any other element isn't worth getting.

Not only are JBs average for bossing, Gal JBs are roughly the same strength as Ideal on bosses anyway. 'course, those aren't trade-ins, but anyone with Gal JBs wouldn't be missing anything by skipping Ideal JBs.

glayrow (gals bullet bow) is also around ideals strength iirc (close range potential works at zero range)

[LonelyGaruga]

Yeah.

Actually I guess it should just be said, Gal weapons in general are about Ideal's strength as long as matching range. Mostly the 11-12% ones, 10% is just barely better than max PB Ares (just a little ATK).

[TaigaUC]

How's something like a God Hand 12 star 50 element compare to the average 13 star? Is it worth getting an Ideal if I already have a God Hand?
Last I compared numbers with other people, it seemed I was getting the same as Ares or higher on Magatsu, but that's without knowing what kind of setup they had.

[Xaelouse]

Honestly? Not that great. Work on ideal knuckles during cmode boost.
http://4rt.info/psod/?6H5kc

[milranduil]

How's something like a God Hand 12 star 50 element compare to the average 13 star? Is it worth getting an Ideal if I already have a God Hand?
Last I compared numbers with other people, it seemed I was getting the same as Ares or higher on Magatsu, but that's without knowing what kind of setup they had.

Ideal knuck is ~12% better than god hand.

[SlN]

The ideal knuckle is going to be far superior I think, as it has a 1.18 bonus damage increase and god hand is 1.20, pretty much the same except that ideal knuckle has +200 satk on it.

If im correct the ideal should be stronger significantly

[TaigaUC]

Hmm. Thanks.
I have enough miles to get a 60 element Ideal weapon right now.
Edit: Looking at the JP swiki comments, people have gotten 500k+ BHS on Magatsu using Ideal. My best is probably ~340k with God Hand.

I do wonder if the 12 stars will get a decent hidden potential though.

[Flaoc]

and how much does ideal have over min power ares cant say ill swap ares to ideal but curious on how much im losing using ares (knuckle)

[LonelyGaruga]

Wow I...no.

Maths:
[SPOILER-BOX]Damage Formula =

Physical Damage = (Player S-ATK - Enemy S-DEF) * Hitzone
Elemental Damage = Weapon Attack Power * Element * Enemy Element Hitzone
(Physical Damage + Elemental Damage) / 5 * 1.05 * Multipliers

Example build (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?10dGbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm da0fdodBIbEfkI2Io0JksXI20000006dodAI2cAdAIbfJkrxHs fdnIo00000fdoib0000000fdo0000000Io00000007oIn00000 000IbIo0000000jdoIb0000000j)

I added the missing 10 S-ATK from mag for the math

Assuming all things equal in the multiplier section barring weapon potential, Limit Break active (so all S-ATK boosts pertaining to LB are active), 90 S-ATK affixes, Shifta Drink active, 315 for enemy S-DEF, and 1.0 for both hitzones,

S-ATK: 1941

Ares: (3387 - 315) * 1 = 3072
1446 * 0.6 * 1 = 867
(3072 + 867) / 5 * 1.05 * 1.1 = 909

Ideal: (3279 - 315) * 1 = 2964
1338 * 0.6 * 1 = 802
(2964 + 802) / 5 * 1.05 * 1.18 = 933

About a 2.6% advantage. [/SPOILER-BOX]

Ideal Nest has a 2.6% advantage over Ares Knuckles in this context.

EDIT: Derped, misread min PB as max PB. Min is 6.6%, half charge is 3.6%.

[SlN]

deal is usually around 2-3 % stronger in most cases.

[Flaoc]

Wow I...no.

Maths:
[SPOILER-BOX]Damage Formula =

Physical Damage = (Player S-ATK - Enemy S-DEF) * Hitzone
Elemental Damage = Weapon Attack Power * Element * Enemy Element Hitzone
(Physical Damage + Elemental Damage) / 5 * 1.05 * Multipliers

Example build (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?10dGbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxImbxIm da0fdodBIbEfkI2Io0JksXI20000006dodAI2cAdAIbfJkrxHs fdnIo00000fdoib0000000fdo0000000Io00000007oIn00000 000IbIo0000000jdoIb0000000j)

I added the missing 10 S-ATK from mag for the math

Assuming all things equal in the multiplier section barring weapon potential, Limit Break active (so all S-ATK boosts pertaining to LB are active), 90 S-ATK affixes, Shifta Drink active, 315 for enemy S-DEF, and 1.0 for both hitzones,

S-ATK: 1941

Ares: (3387 - 315) * 1 = 3072
1446 * 0.6 * 1 = 867
(3072 + 867) / 5 * 1.05 * 1.1 = 909

Ideal: (3279 - 315) * 1 = 2964
1338 * 0.6 * 1 = 802
(2964 + 802) / 5 * 1.05 * 1.18 = 933

About a 2.6% advantage. [/SPOILER-BOX]

Ideal Nest has a 2.6% advantage over Ares Knuckles in this context.

so about 6.6 over min power thx

[TaigaUC]

JP friend is recommending that new 13 star skull knuckles from kuronia.
Has anyone been talking about those new 13 stars? Are they a pain up the ass to get?

[SlN]

JP friend is recommending that new 13 star skull knuckles from kuronia.
Has anyone been talking about those new 13 stars? Are they a pain up the ass to get?

Skull knuckle is good for heartless impact dashing, i guess it could be pretty decent for BHS spam because of the high pp cost.

[Ryuuguu]

Yeah.

Actually I guess it should just be said, Gal weapons in general are about Ideal's strength as long as matching range. Mostly the 11-12% ones, 10% is just barely better than max PB Ares (just a little ATK).

Don't forget about the crit bonus from galyrow. At 35% crit its going to be 1-2% more dmg or something.

[TaigaUC]

Well, I got Ideal knuckles.
Haven't finished grinding them yet, but they already feel like they flatten everything.