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View Full Version : Weapon Tiers (Bossing and Mobbing)



Flaoc
Aug 8, 2015, 07:17 PM
decided to move info from 2 threads into an OP

well feel free to discuss as well ill be around to update op as needed.. might be wrong section for this so mods feel free to move if needed

edit: make sure the info is for XH and ultimate also if you guys want to do it you could come up with a class combinations tier as well and i would add it to the op



Well I guess forming a rough draft for a weapon tier list would be fine. Please note that I by no means think I know enough to actually make a tier list, just taking initiative here. Gonna be looking for input from other people on this for revision.

Mobbing:

S: Rod, Talis, Wand

A: Double Saber, Launcher

B: Sword (maybe A in Ultimate), Wired Lance, Partisan, Gunslash, Katana (might be A nowadays), Twin Machinegun

C: Twin Dagger, Knuckles, Dual Blade (might be B), Assault Rifle, Bullet Bow, Jet Boots

EDIT 1: Moved Double Saber to A, Partisan to B.



saw a list on 2ch where they rank weapons based on their bossing capabilities

http://yomogi.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/ogame3/1437220314/l50


google translate version:

[PSO2] weapon ranking [versus boss] [Reprinted ban] © 2ch.net

S rank knuckle, Barettobou (bullet bow)

A rank partisan, dual blade, assault rifle, twin machine gun

B rank Sword, wire-de-Lans (wired lance), twin dagger, double Saber, Gansura(gunslash?), Katana, jet boots

C rank launcher, rod, Thalys(talis), Wand

Paruchi The A to inferior and is proud of the strongest compared with the overall Look PP around, such as poor have the same melee weapon knuckle Place to Magatsu.

D blur no persistence in Ki There limit skill, AR, TMG is good command if S equivalent

C rank rank in Sotai-teki because it has all those strong in basically small fish warfare under

Tech is complex, A considerable in certain of such converters

Skyly
Aug 8, 2015, 07:28 PM
Why are DBs so low on the mobbing list? Zondeel --> Dispersion strike? Seems like S or at A tier.

Poyonche
Aug 8, 2015, 07:35 PM
Same for Jetboots, I would give a B, Moment Gale is one of the best mobbing PA (and good AoE too), Strike Gust and Gran Wave are okay. Vinto Gigue isn't meant for mobbing. Also dat PP restore. :0

GoldenFalcon
Aug 8, 2015, 07:36 PM
I just want someone to explain why knuckles are S bossing

Flaoc
Aug 8, 2015, 07:40 PM
I just want someone to explain why knuckles are S bossing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DydYH-P_2QY though these are fang kitties bhs spam is very effective on bosses

also tried my ares nest on magatsu before and it worked pretty well but im not sure how it compares to partizan for magatsu

Kondibon
Aug 8, 2015, 07:40 PM
I just want someone to explain why knuckles are S bossingBackhand smash and crafted slide upper probably.

Skyly
Aug 8, 2015, 07:43 PM
I just want someone to explain why knuckles are S bossing

[Insert one of my friends bragging about XXX,XXX backhand smash]

milranduil
Aug 8, 2015, 07:44 PM
6 digit bhs pales in comparison to 1mil graptor (if talking about magatsu ofc lol).

Kondibon
Aug 8, 2015, 07:46 PM
6 digit bhs pales in comparison to 1mil graptor.Yeah, even after that video I don't see why it would be S.

GoldenFalcon
Aug 8, 2015, 07:49 PM
This thread needs more videos

Selphea
Aug 8, 2015, 07:58 PM
I'm not a fan of general tier lists because they don't tell the whole story. Especially if using a vox populi methodology i.e. get a bunch of people to contribute their opinions then average them out, it only creates an echo chamber effect rather than offering any real insight.

Ideally I'd do it on a granular level, i.e.


Step 1: Create a cross section of say, popular mobbing-heavy content over the past quarter - for example, Darker Den LQ, Gryphon LQ, Kuron, Lilipa UQ, and a similar selection of bosses - Maggy, Elder/Loser, Gryphon, Spider Sadako, Mecha-Banther, Guranz, Anga etc.
Step 2: Establish conditions - what class combination? What tier of weapon? 13*? Meteor Cudgel? Solo or party? Pug or premade? Is WB or Territory Burst Zondeel in the party assumed?
Step 3: Rate all candidates based on measurable metrics under said conditions. Honestly raw DPS under ideal conditions is easiest but if WB/Zondeel aren't a given then they need to somehow be weighed in.


Some other notes:

The reason why I suggest that method is that some weapons may be advantaged or disadvantaged in certain maps. Launchers for example seem nigh impossible to headshot in UQs so the bad matchup needs to be factored in despite their strengths. TMGs on the other hand are generally weak mobbing but do very well in Kuronia due to its design where practically every mob is defenseless from above and conveniently has its weak point high up as well.

I really wouldn't lump techs together into Rod/Talis. For one, Jet Boots can cast techs too, especially with Serafi and double jump, but Jet Boots don't seem to be ranked based on Tech ability. For another, specializing into an element is a bigger decision than specializing into a single weapon, considering in the worst case it's 30pts for Masteries + supplementary skill vs 1pt for Gear.

If grouping techs together then do the same for class weapons too, i.e. WL/Partisan/Sword gets rolled into "Hunter". Either way there needs to be some kind of standardization.

Given subclassing, if key skills like Zondeel and WB will make a big impact on a weapon's performance but is not natively usable on the main class, should the subclass be assumed to have these skills? Bullet Bow for instance - should it be ranked as Gu/Br with WB not assumed, or Gu/Br with WB assumed, or Ra/Br with WB not assumed, or something else?

Bellion
Aug 8, 2015, 08:02 PM
Knuckles on bosses that have less than 2mil hp when we're factoring in WB being present is the quickest way to down them provided you can actually reach their weakpoint.

Ringa in an MPA and Bal Rodos are where you'd want BHS because they recover quicker, so better let it all out asap.

Skyly
Aug 8, 2015, 08:06 PM
This thread needs more videos

Gib videos.

Kondibon
Aug 8, 2015, 08:15 PM
I'm not a fan of general tier lists because they don't tell the whole story. Especially if using a vox populi methodology i.e. get a bunch of people to contribute their opinions then average them out, it only creates an echo chamber effect rather than offering any real insight.

Ideally I'd do it on a granular level, i.e.


Step 1: Create a cross section of say, popular mobbing-heavy content over the past quarter - for example, Darker Den LQ, Gryphon LQ, Kuron, Lilipa UQ, and a similar selection of bosses - Maggy, Elder/Loser, Gryphon, Spider Sadako, Mecha-Banther, Guranz, Anga etc.
Step 2: Establish conditions - what class combination? What tier of weapon? 13*? Meteor Cudgel? Solo or party? Pug or premade? Is WB or Territory Burst Zondeel in the party assumed?
Step 3: Rate all candidates based on measurable metrics under said conditions. Honestly raw DPS under ideal conditions is easiest but if WB/Zondeel aren't a given then they need to somehow be weighed in.


Some other notes:

The reason why I suggest that method is that some weapons may be advantaged or disadvantaged in certain maps. Launchers for example seem nigh impossible to headshot in UQs so the bad matchup needs to be factored in despite their strengths. TMGs on the other hand are generally weak mobbing but do very well in Kuronia due to its design where practically every mob is defenseless from above and conveniently has its weak point high up as well.

I really wouldn't lump techs together into Rod/Talis. For one, Jet Boots can cast techs too, especially with Serafi and double jump, but Jet Boots don't seem to be ranked based on Tech ability. For another, specializing into an element is a bigger decision than specializing into a single weapon, considering in the worst case it's 30pts for Masteries + supplementary skill vs 1pt for Gear.

If grouping techs together then do the same for class weapons too, i.e. WL/Partisan/Sword gets rolled into "Hunter". Either way there needs to be some kind of standardization.

Given subclassing, if key skills like Zondeel and WB will make a big impact on a weapon's performance but is not natively usable on the main class, should the subclass be assumed to have these skills? Bullet Bow for instance - should it be ranked as Gu/Br with WB not assumed, or Gu/Br with WB assumed, or Ra/Br with WB not assumed, or something else?I actually totally agree, the weapons on their own can't really be tiered because of all the other variables. I just like seeing what everyone thinks. :wacko:

I remember suggesting something similar back when people were talking about classes being good or bad or whatever. No one did it. People act like they care but this is really just casual conversation.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 8, 2015, 08:32 PM
From what I'm seeing so far:

A-S tier in bossing is generally held by weapons with boss-killing cooldowns/gimmicks that can more than double their normal output like tech canceling PBF, chain trigger, WB, banish/vol graptor, and honerable mention to BHS.

B tier is rightfully held by just about every other striking weapon since they don't have absurd 100%+ damage multipliers from a gimmick in some form

C tier is held by launchers, and techs/wand who don't get out as much damage as fast as melee weapons do, with no real gimmicks outside of compound techs (sans Fo/Br, or Te/Br with Rikauteri + banish which makes bow A-S rank on most lists anyway).

Of course that changes from boss to boss, like how katana should be rated lower vs magatsu, and daggers should go up a grade against him.

HentaiLolicon
Aug 8, 2015, 08:59 PM
Weapons in pso2 are flexible, you can't just listing them by a single aspect where they are good at.

elryan
Aug 8, 2015, 09:19 PM
Tier list are not and never relevant in multi-player game setting.

Tier list works only on 1v1 setting i.e. Fighting games.

Superia
Aug 8, 2015, 09:26 PM
Tier list are not and never relevant in multi-player game setting.

Tier list works only on 1v1 setting i.e. Fighting games.

I do not know what you mean. The concept of a tier list is not restricted to games, much less a specific genre of game. When there are options, some of them are always better than others.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Aug 8, 2015, 09:39 PM
I do not know what you mean. The concept of a tier list is not restricted to games, much less a specific genre of game. When there are options, some of them are always better than others.

This. Games don't need to be competitive to have a tier list. Hell, tier lists apply to things like hand-tools of choice for house work.

Some things are more effective than others at doing some things. Fact of life.

Flaoc
Aug 8, 2015, 09:56 PM
This. Games don't need to be competitive to have a tier list. Hell, tier lists apply to things like hand-tools of choice for house work.

Some things are more effective than others at doing some things. Fact of life.

also this is just general purpose overall depending on the sitaution x wep may beat a higher tier wep.. this isnt ep2 though where very little was viable ep2 was basically br gu and ra city

SlN
Aug 8, 2015, 09:58 PM
I just want someone to explain why knuckles are S bossing

This , if youre playing fighter you may as well be using partizan for bossing.

Although I agree with the rest of the list...

Now if this was "Main class only" it would make alot of sense.

Either way, nice list.

GoldenFalcon
Aug 8, 2015, 10:13 PM
Weapons in pso2 are flexible, you can't just listing them by a single aspect where they are good at.

The idea is that some mechanics are more sought after in certain scenarios

Weapons handle mechanics with different damage magnitudes, so it's clear that some are the best at a specific scenario

Sandmind
Aug 8, 2015, 10:22 PM
Same for Jetboots, I would give a B, Moment Gale is one of the best mobbing PA (and good AoE too), Strike Gust and Gran Wave are okay. Vinto Gigue isn't meant for mobbing. Also dat PP restore. :0

For mobbing, during Darker Den LQ, I loved to spam Nagrants TAJA'ed into Moment Gale, looked to me like a match made in heaven for darker mobbing. Since both deal damage over a long period, the first hit stunning everything, the other vacuum'ing everything back into it and all while zanverse would be double dipping.

Achelousaurus
Aug 10, 2015, 11:50 AM
How exactly are knuckles better for bossing than rifle?
Since WB has 4 bullets, cd doesn't matter unless we're talking about a DF boss or Magatsu in which case all melee is slow as fuck.

Yeah I saw the vid and I saw all the ra vids, too, where they go down in less than half the time.

Remz69
Aug 10, 2015, 01:14 PM
knuckles are good for bossing in a group setting
bosses on XH have like 2-3M at most and Ult 4-6M iirc

on a regular weakpoint with a weakbullet, fully buffed out, you can hit up to 600+k

you can down most XH bosses by yourself before a volg would even detonate and even if you don't kill them your contribution is big enough that by the time you've done your 3-5 BHS, whatever is enough, another person's dmg will easily fill the gap

Zorafim
Aug 10, 2015, 03:20 PM
Tier list are not and never relevant in multi-player game setting.

Tier list works only on 1v1 setting i.e. Fighting games.

Why?


Weapons in pso2 are flexible, you can't just listing them by a single aspect where they are good at.

Why not?
And why would you chose that name?

Xaelouse
Aug 10, 2015, 04:23 PM
Weapons vs boss thing need to be examined for each and every boss. Partizan isn't too hot against everything and the JP that made that list probably acknowledged that (but then made Knuckles S-rank for some reason).

LonelyGaruga
Aug 10, 2015, 06:07 PM
Actually, if you read the 2ch post, it explains exactly what's up with partisan. It says that it's the best for Magatsu, but elsewhere, its inferior PP efficiency compared to other melee weapons places it below knuckles. Even acknowledging its faults it was placed in A rank, so...yeah.

As for why knuckles are up there, an explanation isn't given, but I would assume that high-top end gear is assumed, so the ability to use BHS 5 times in a row would be present. I don't really see how it's S myself either, but it's kind of whatever as far as I'm concerned so lol

milranduil
Aug 10, 2015, 08:22 PM
Assuming ideal knuck with wb in an mpa on a weak point, 5 bhs is roughly 2-3m damage, the HP of many XH bosses.