Horrible Challenge Mode Groups

[Kusurian]

I'm sure that all of us at some point have attempted to run Challenge Mode on the Shared Ship only to find that the group you're running it with is horrible. Many deaths occurring, not clearing areas as quick as possible, poor communication with other players since they usually don't speak English which is completely understandable, and many other issues. Thanks to all these issues it makes it even harder to earn our Ideal Weapons which aren't that bad really. I'm not trying to say that I'm the best of the best, but my point is I don't die often, it's rare to be honest. I just want successful runs where we can clear all the missions with little to no problems.

[milranduil]

"i don't die" doesn't mean you're a good CMer, buy the correct weps, coordinate properly, or anything else all that relevant.

[[Ayumi]]

I've tried CMode a couple times, and every one I tried to do, we've always lost around the caves after Burn Draal.

I gave up on CMode since then.

[Kusurian]

"i don't die" doesn't mean you're a good CMer, buy the correct weps, coordinate properly, or anything else all that relevant.

Yes you're right, but do understand that I did say that I'm not the best of the best. The point that I tried making is it's very difficult for players who are actually good at Challenge Mode to earn their Ideal Weapons quickly if most of the runs turn out horrible. I see people drop dead like flies all the time and it's very annoying when they're not being revived and I'm personally out of Moon Atomizers. I use proper weapons, and it's hard to coordinate with others if little to no communication is being made except by running around and killing all enemies with the other members of the group. So what else can be done?

[Kusurian]

;3281025']I've tried CMode a couple times, and every one I tried to do, we've always lost around the caves after Burn Draal.

I gave up on CMode since then.

Perhaps you should try running Challenge Mode again sometime? I wouldn't mind running it with you if you would like? It would be nice to get a group together to try for a successful run.

[K.O. Kazjivo]

You can try farming the new Kuron area instead, for the new 13*s.

[Kusurian]

You can try farming the new Kuron area instead, for the new 13*s.

I planned to at some point, just working on leveling my classes right now. As of right now I can do Super Hard but I would rather unlock Extra Hard as quick as possible right now.

[Lyrise]

Yes you're right, but do understand that I did say that I'm not the best of the best. The point that I tried making is it's very difficult for players who are actually good at Challenge Mode to earn their Ideal Weapons quickly if most of the runs turn out horrible. I see people drop dead like flies all the time and it's very annoying when they're not being revived and I'm personally out of Moon Atomizers. I use proper weapons, and it's hard to coordinate with others if little to no communication is being made except by running around and killing all enemies with the other members of the group. So what else can be done?

Tell the others to stop taking so many hits, and start playing as if they only have enough HP to survive 2 hits.

While dying is an issue, it's not what kills most runs. What kills most runs is the number of times the players in the MPA get hit - VRE decreases faster when you take damage, regardless of the amount of damage. If you take one hit that causes large damage and get killed, you can regain pretty much all of it back minus a smidge lost from taking the hit that lead to the death, just by using a moon atomizer. But if you take 20 hits, and survive, the fact stands that you just lost 20 hits worth of VRE, and you can't recover it back without picking up more capsules.

In the end it's a balancing act, since you also need to be a bit aggressive in order to keep pace with the VRE you have. Sometimes in the effort to not take hits, you don't go all in, and it takes longer to get things done, which is also a bad thing. Just need to be more aware of incoming attacks and keep moving forward.


Edit: As people have commented I'm wrong on the VR drain increasing when getting hit.

[Kusurian]

Tell the others to stop taking so many hits, and start playing as if they only have enough HP to survive 2 hits.

While dying is an issue, it's not what kills most runs. What kills most runs is the number of times the players in the MPA get hit - VRE decreases faster when you take damage, regardless of the amount of damage. If you take one hit that causes large damage and get killed, you can regain pretty much all of it back minus a smidge lost from taking the hit that lead to the death, just by using a moon atomizer. But if you take 20 hits, and survive, the fact stands that you just lost 20 hits worth of VRE, and you can't recover it back without picking up more capsules.

In the end it's a balancing act, since you also need to be a bit aggressive in order to keep pace with the VRE you have. Sometimes in the effort to not take hits, you don't go all in, and it takes longer to get things done, which is also a bad thing. Just need to be more aware of incoming attacks and keep moving forward.

Does it really drain whenever someone gets hit? I do know that it drains much quicker when people die, and then time itself.

[Naoya Kiriyama]

Tell the others to stop taking so many hits, and start playing as if they only have enough HP to survive 2 hits.

While dying is an issue, it's not what kills most runs. What kills most runs is the number of times the players in the MPA get hit - VRE decreases faster when you take damage, regardless of the amount of damage. If you take one hit that causes large damage and get killed, you can regain pretty much all of it back minus a smidge lost from taking the hit that lead to the death, just by using a moon atomizer. But if you take 20 hits, and survive, the fact stands that you just lost 20 hits worth of VRE, and you can't recover it back without picking up more capsules.

In the end it's a balancing act, since you also need to be a bit aggressive in order to keep pace with the VRE you have. Sometimes in the effort to not take hits, you don't go all in, and it takes longer to get things done, which is also a bad thing. Just need to be more aware of incoming attacks and keep moving forward.
The statement of decreasing VR when anyone gets hits have been proved several times to be false. Only thing that affect VR is death, which depletes 10% of VR (and can be restored when using a moon).

Pretty much is lack of DPS that kills runs, and bad weapon choices. You can facetank anything and you won't get any VR penalty unless you die. The problem with getting hit is that you're not dealing damage, which returns in less DPS

[milranduil]

Tell the others to stop taking so many hits, and start playing as if they only have enough HP to survive 2 hits.

While dying is an issue, it's not what kills most runs. What kills most runs is the number of times the players in the MPA get hit - VRE decreases faster when you take damage, regardless of the amount of damage. If you take one hit that causes large damage and get killed, you can regain pretty much all of it back minus a smidge lost from taking the hit that lead to the death, just by using a moon atomizer. But if you take 20 hits, and survive, the fact stands that you just lost 20 hits worth of VRE, and you can't recover it back without picking up more capsules.

In the end it's a balancing act, since you also need to be a bit aggressive in order to keep pace with the VRE you have. Sometimes in the effort to not take hits, you don't go all in, and it takes longer to get things done, which is also a bad thing. Just need to be more aware of incoming attacks and keep moving forward.

This is part of the problem right here... people still not knowing shit about CM after 5 months.

[Lyrise]

The statement of decreasing VR when anyone gets hits have been proved several times to be false. Only thing that affect VR is death, which depletes 10% of VR (and can be restored when using a moon).

Pretty much is lack of DPS that kills runs, and bad weapon choices. You can facetank anything and you won't get any VR penalty unless you die. The problem with getting hit is that you're not dealing damage, which returns in less DPS

Hrm. I thought that it would be the case, since I've seen some runs end way too fast, despite very few people dying, and good progress being made (I really couldn't quantify this short of saying the VR manager missing caps).

But that certainly helps that it really isn't, since it lets people focus a little better on fighting. Either way, I still think people just take too much damage in general and that in turn uses up resources better spent elsewhere.

[Kusurian]

The statement of decreasing VR when anyone gets hits have been proved several times to be false. Only thing that affect VR is death, which depletes 10% of VR (and can be restored when using a moon).

Pretty much is lack of DPS that kills runs, and bad weapon choices. You can facetank anything and you won't get any VR penalty unless you die. The problem with getting hit is that you're not dealing damage, which returns in less DPS

Sounds more accurate, I've been doing Challenge Mode quite a lot and not once have I noticed any drain from getting hit.

[Kusurian]

Hrm. I thought that it would be the case, since I've seen some runs end way too fast, despite very few people dying, and good progress being made (I really couldn't quantify this short of saying the VR manager missing caps).

But that certainly helps that it really isn't, since it lets people focus a little better on fighting. Either way, I still think people just take too much damage in general and that in turn uses up resources better spent elsewhere.

Yes, I think people should take less damage as well but lets be honest here. Most people just can't seem to do that. They'll just get hit and die a lot as usual.

[milranduil]

Hrm. I thought that it would be the case, since I've seen some runs end way too fast, despite very few people dying, and good progress being made (I really couldn't quantify this short of saying the VR manager missing caps).

But that certainly helps that it really isn't, since it lets people focus a little better on fighting. Either way, I still think people just take too much damage in general and that in turn uses up resources better spent elsewhere.

It's less a problem of resources being spent on moons and more a problem of people buying and using the wrong weapons/PAs, lack of simplistic planning (like a few people having Raging Waltz for M3 lillipans), and the occasional idiotic VR manager that doesn't actually know where all the hidden VR is.

[Kusurian]

It's less a problem of resources being spent on moons and more a problem of people buying and using the wrong weapons/PAs, lack of simplistic planning (like a few people having Raging Waltz for M3 lillipans), and the occasional idiotic VR manager that doesn't actually know where all the hidden VR is.

It really hurts when people don't plan things out carefully.

[Naoya Kiriyama]

Hrm. I thought that it would be the case, since I've seen some runs end way too fast, despite very few people dying, and good progress being made (I really couldn't quantify this short of saying the VR manager missing caps).

But that certainly helps that it really isn't, since it lets people focus a little better on fighting. Either way, I still think people just take too much damage in general and that in turn uses up resources better spent elsewhere.

Few people dying doesn't mean the run is doing great, because of the lack of dps. If you do VR manage, you'll notice VR bar acts like a clock and you can easily measure when to pick a cap without overfilling it or underfilling it. Only think you have to keep in mind is when someone dies, it shows a big chunk of VR taken off (that section will be red by a few minisecs).

The only possibility of a run ending way too fast is if too many people got rekt at once (the biggest example would be Vomos). I saw some good runs with about 30% VR left and instantly ended, because more than 3 people died (-40% VR penalty) and those didn't had dolls. In fact, m10 is the only mission that requires to avoid deaths as much as possible, because dying more than twice really gives a huge impact on the run (you should have 2 dolls at i5, that's why I said more than twice).

And well, overall it's easier to clear CM now if people know their stuff. Problem is that lately, people also got super lazy and don't even care to learn to play it efficiently. I just had a run that was horrible in a lot of things, but the thing that killed me the most is Aggro using launcher in m5 final room, and I thought I saw everything about bad CM strats, but definetely that takes the cake.

[Kusurian]

Few people dying doesn't mean the run is doing great, because of the lack of dps. If you do VR manage, you'll notice VR bar acts like a clock and you can easily measure when to pick a cap without overfilling it or underfilling it. Only think you have to keep in mind is when someone dies, it shows a big chunk of VR taken off (that section will be red by a few minisecs).

The only possibility of a run ending way too fast is if too many people got rekt at once (the biggest example would be Vomos). I saw some good runs with about 30% VR left and instantly ended, because more than 3 people died (-40% VR penalty) and those didn't had dolls. In fact, m10 is the only mission that requires to avoid deaths as much as possible, because dying more than twice really gives a huge impact on the run (you should have 2 dolls at i5, that's why I said more than twice).

And well, overall it's easier to clear CM now if people know their stuff. Problem is that lately, people also got super lazy and don't even care to learn to play it efficiently. I just had a run that was horrible in a lot of things, but the thing that killed me the most is Aggro using launcher in m5 final room, and I thought I saw everything about bad CM strats, but definetely that takes the cake.

If only people knew their stuff.

[TaigaUC]

I personally enjoy being offensive and not taking hits at the same time.
Seems like most people either do one or the other. I like to do both. Makes me feel more alive.
I do the same thing in other games. I only go defensive when I'm about to go splat.
If you play well, that should be a rare occasion.

And yeah, I think a lot of people just don't know how to play Challenge.
They're probably too used to the regular game. It's really not the same thing at all.
Or most people who play these games rely too heavily on their damn equipment instead of their personal ability.
I'm the type that likes improves myself, and I grew up playing those kinds of games... so Challenge isn't a problem for me.

If I stop slacking I'll see about finishing my crappy guide.

[Kusurian]

I personally enjoy being offensive and not taking hits at the same time.
Seems like most people either do one or the other. I like to do both. Makes me feel more alive.
I do the same thing in other games. I only go defensive when I'm about to go splat.
If you play well, that should be a rare occasion.

And yeah, I think a lot of people just don't know how to play Challenge.
They're probably too used to the regular game. It's really not the same thing at all.
Or most people who play these games rely too heavily on their damn equipment instead of their personal ability.
I'm the type that likes improves myself, and I grew up playing those kinds of games... so Challenge isn't a problem for me.

If I stop slacking I'll see about finishing my crappy guide.

You're like me then. I enjoy being offensive and not taking hits as well as it is very efficient.

[Tigy]

This is JP server anyway, I have ask 5-10 JP player and many of them want us to be able to speak Japanese
I only have 1 ideal because I feel bad, I can't communicate with them, I dont't know how much mistake I have made before I got my first ideal
I think you're wrong if you expect them to speak English instead of Japanese
No offense

[milranduil]

The thing is you don't need to speak hardly any JP outside of a few key phrases for CM pugging. The 4 roles and being able to ask for specific weapon/PA/item/etc., that's it. This is assuming you have a general idea of what to do of course which is apparently assuming a lot given much of the EN community and their lack of prowess when it comes to CM.

[Kusurian]

This is JP server anyway, I have ask 5-10 JP player and many of them want us to be able to speak Japanese
I only have 1 ideal because I feel bad, I can't communicate with them, I dont't know how much mistake I have made before I got my first ideal
I think you're wrong if you expect them to speak English instead of Japanese
No offense

I don't expect them to be able to speak English. Never have and never will expect it.

[Kusurian]

The thing is you don't need to speak hardly any JP outside of a few key phrases for CM pugging. The 4 roles and being able to ask for specific weapon/PA/item/etc., that's it. This is assuming you have a general idea of what to do of course which is apparently assuming a lot given much of the EN community and their lack of prowess when it comes to CM.

Very true, you hardly need to speak any Japanese.

[Vatallus]

Decided I should do a refresher run on CM before the boost week.

Very first run:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150809_113800_001_zpshvhnbxqa.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]


Now I actually have hopes about CM boost week not blowing chunks when playing with randoms.

[milranduil]

Decided I should do a refresher run on CM before the boost week.

Very first run:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150809_113800_001_zpshvhnbxqa.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]


Now I actually have hopes about CM boost week not blowing chunks when playing with randoms.

Out of the last 15 pug runs I've done in the past 3 days, 4 have cleared, 10 have made m10 80%, 1 m10 50%. Almost all during JP time.

[Kusurian]

Decided I should do a refresher run on CM before the boost week.

Very first run:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150809_113800_001_zpshvhnbxqa.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]


Now I actually have hopes about CM boost week not blowing chunks when playing with randoms.

Very nice! Another issue of mine might be the time I'm attempting to run Challenge Mode. I mean, I try to go for certain times of the day.

[nathanielzor]

Boost week will be awful because of the EN influx though lolol.

Cleared a few times recently though in random PUGs no problem at all.

[Kusurian]

Boost week will be awful because of the EN influx though lolol.

Cleared a few times recently though in random PUGs no problem at all.

Every run that I've done recently has been horrible. I made it to Mission 9 about 2 or 3 times but failed thanks to many people dropping dead a lot.

[nathanielzor]

Every run that I've done recently has been horrible. I made it to Mission 9 about 2 or 3 times but failed thanks to many people dropping dead a lot.
What time of the day are you doing it?

[Flaoc]

It's less a problem of resources being spent on moons and more a problem of people buying and using the wrong weapons/PAs, lack of simplistic planning (like a few people having Raging Waltz for M3 lillipans), and the occasional idiotic VR manager that doesn't actually know where all the hidden VR is.

this happened one run.. m1-m7 ok we good im not the vr manager

M8 and beyond all of a sudden im the vr manager now? ._.

[EvilMag]

Had a run where we were all at M9 and after we killed the Banthers, the dropship was still there shooting at us and everyone just...stood there and took all the shooting and missle attacks. It wasn't lag mind you but I facepalm'd after seeing like 4-5 people die at once from that and see our VR bar go waaaay down.

[martinmeegan]

I can hold my hands up to not knowing what the hell to do in challenge mode which is why I don't play it. No point in wasting everyones time.

[Kusurian]

What time of the day are you doing it?

Well, I do it around 9 AM EST and 11 PM EST.

[Kusurian]

Had a run where we were all at M9 and after we killed the Banthers, the dropship was still there shooting at us and everyone just...stood there and took all the shooting and missle attacks. It wasn't lag mind you but I facepalm'd after seeing like 4-5 people die at once from that and see our VR bar go waaaay down.

That's absolutely horrible! I have seen that happen on a few runs, made me so angry.

[Kusurian]

I can hold my hands up to not knowing what the hell to do in challenge mode which is why I don't play it. No point in wasting everyones time.

To be completely honest it's not hard to learn at all.

[Kusurian]

this happened one run.. m1-m7 ok we good im not the vr manager

M8 and beyond all of a sudden im the vr manager now? ._.

Who knows really, I stay away from collecting VR Energy unless it's absolutely needed at any point during the run.

[milranduil]

breh please learn to single post. you just quad posted . 3. p

[Kusurian]

breh please learn to single post. you just quad posted . 3. p

I'm completely aware of how to do a single post but I forget to do so when I'm in a rush of replying and going back to my game.

[milranduil]

I'm completely aware of how to do a single post but I forget to do so when I'm in a rush of replying and going back to my game.

Quote the post, type your reply, then copy the text and go to the next post you want to reply to and paste. Rinse/repeat til done.

EDIT: meanwhile best CM pug I've done yet even over 2ch lol
[spoiler-box]
http://puu.sh/jvozC/b02f16a271.jpg
[/spoiler-box]

[Naoya Kiriyama]

I'm completely aware of how to do a single post but I forget to do so when I'm in a rush of replying and going back to my game.

Also, you can multiquote with the button properly named "Multiquote" (·3·)b

[Kusurian]

Also, you can multiquote with the button properly named "Multiquote" (·3·)b

I'm also completely aware of that button.

[milranduil]

oh wow awk... never knew multi did that lmao

[Kusurian]

Anyways, back onto the topic. If possible I would like to gather a group to attempt a couple runs of Challenge Mode. How do you guys feel about that?

[Naoya Kiriyama]

I guess it's a pretty good time to revive this
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228744

You can manage to organize the runs. And 12 Man runs should be okay from now on considering the VR nerf of a month ago, which made 12 man runs pretty viable.

[Kusurian]

I guess it's a pretty good time to revive this
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228744

You can manage to organize the runs. And 12 Man runs should be okay from now on considering the VR nerf of a month ago, which made 12 man runs pretty viable.

I'll take a look at that later today.

[Meteor Weapon]

You guys might wanna check this block out now, some brazilian using teleporting hacks, I'm not sure what the JP's are talking about, but i think their warning him or something [SPOILER-BOX]https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/11823123_1022493717775111_5345271536137628871_o.jp g[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Kusurian]

You guys might wanna check this block out now, some brazilian using teleporting hacks, I'm not sure what the JP's are talking about, but i think their warning him or something [SPOILER-BOX]https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t31.0-8/11823123_1022493717775111_5345271536137628871_o.jp g[/SPOILER-BOX]

Well then.

[Zanverse]

Was about to start a thread about the C-Mode hackers. What is wrong with some people...

[Kusurian]

Was about to make a threat about the C-Mode hackers. What is wrong with some people...

Don't we all ask ourselves that same question? I wish people actually had more sense.

[Zanverse]

I don't understand why they would go and completely screw up our fun by hacking and messing with the game. The last thing we want is to be blocked. They're doing this on a Shared server, too!

[Kusurian]

I don't understand why they would go and completely screw up our fun by hacking and messing with the game. The last thing we want is to be blocked. They're doing this on a Shared server, too!

I wish these players would be dealt with properly.

[Vatallus]

It is ok. They will just blame it on the English players even though it isn't our fault and the person doing it probably isn't even English. Servers got hacked the very first day CM came out also.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, don't worry about hacks.
You can be a helpful contributing player like me and still get blocked for no reason!

Seriously not looking forward to C-Mode bonus week.
SEGA is still encouraging newbies to do C-Mode without really preparing anyone for it.
All the newbies are gonna dive into it and probably die on the first mission over and over.
x2 jack all is still jack all.

[Lostbob117]

Might as wait for the new CMode to run it, since it'll be run by a lot more people.

[TwistedShaerk]

I just did a random Cmode for practice since I don't play it much, and as a result had never cleared it. First lobby I go into clears it.

Not going to say I carried that run at all, it was definitely the other way around, especially closer to the end since today was my first time ever in M10. Yes, I suck, go ahead and say I suck because I know it. :wacko:

[Kusurian]

Yeah, don't worry about hacks.
You can be a helpful contributing player like me and still get blocked for no reason!

Seriously not looking forward to C-Mode bonus week.
SEGA is still encouraging newbies to do C-Mode without really preparing anyone for it.
All the newbies are gonna dive into it and probably die on the first mission over and over.
x2 jack all is still jack all.

I'm extremely terrified about the newbies that will most likely do it. As you said about them dying over and over on the first mission I doubt we'll make it pass the first mission thanks to this. Perhaps we'll have a few rare cases, who knows?

[Kusurian]

Yeah... Started a new character recently and was actually pretty angry at the tutorial screens urging me to try c-mode so early on. That kind of notification should only come once you've got two classes at lv70 or higher. :/ I mean, of course no limitation since new characters are always being made, but they shouldn't encourage potential newbies to go and ruin runs... (And I do consider 70/50 to still be too new.)

Only started c-mode about 3 weeks after release, once everyone had already gotten their weapons and quit again until the next big update. I have 140k miles and have not had a successful run. :\ Furthest I've made it is one wave into m10. Every other run has ended at m9 banthers or earlier. Closest thing to an organized run I've ever been invited to, I was disqualified from last minute for not having premium to get into a full block.

Haven't tried since before the knuckle buff, tho, so I don't know how much things have really changed.

Through the many random parties I've had, most of the people dooming runs to fail even earlier than m9 have been those who look foreign. They get nonsensical gear, they hoard, they die A LOT, they don't buy challenge dolls (or they die so much that they hardly even help), they AFK, and some times they even insist on speaking English in public chat despite the group obviously being Japanese. One even kept spamming "o.o" throughout the entire run. It got to the point that I'd abandon ship along with half the MPA if they started speaking English.

The dance fes has been the only thing to beat out c-mode for feeding my blacklist.

The most memorable mistake, though, was made by a JP player, and absolutely nobody was angry about it. I was in a skype call with the one other person in my party. In m3, when we were approaching the warp at the end of the catwalk, I had my full map open and looked at all the capsules. I thought to myself, "What if the manager just left all of them behind one day?" I considered saying it out loud for my partner to hear and laugh at, but we'd been having some terrible runs that night and figured it'd be too cruel to prompt them to think about.
We take the warp, I look at the map again
All players took the warp, all capsules left behind
Manager freaks out and starts apologizing
Much good-natured laughter is had
Mass abandon

I personally feel that it isn't about levels here. You could be 75/75 and still absolutely suck at the game.

[Zorafim]

That's a major problem with this game. Most of the content is braindead grinding, so that once a real challenge comes up, nobody is prepared for it. There needs to be a steady curve from casual to hardcore content, yet the hardest stuff is easily accessible to everyone regardless of their skill level.
The way it's set up now, the only way for a new player to learn to be better is to bog down a veteran players trying to speed up his runs to lessen the grind for his next upgrade. The new player is frustrated because he's not in an environment where he can learn to get better, the veteran is frustrated because he's not getting a clear... there's no winners.

[Kusurian]

Absolutely true. Can be 75/75 with the most idealistic 6x gear and still be a useless scrub. But it's about minimizing the amount of people who DEFINITELY don't know what they're doing. Encouraging newbies to do one of the most critical quests in the game is a bad idea for everyone involved. Like throwing an uneducated 7-year-old into a bomb squad and expecting disaster to not happen. And leveling is so easy nowadays that having a lv75 main class means nothing about how long they've been playing or what classes they've tried.

I sometimes wish it wasn't so easy to level these days. I'll admit, I have been playing for about 3 to 4 months by now and throughout the time I've been playing I noticed that they're making it easier and easier to level. It's quite annoying to be honest.

[Kusurian]

That's a major problem with this game. Most of the content is braindead grinding, so that once a real challenge comes up, nobody is prepared for it. There needs to be a steady curve from casual to hardcore content, yet the hardest stuff is easily accessible to everyone regardless of their skill level.
The way it's set up now, the only way for a new player to learn to be better is to bog down a veteran players trying to speed up his runs to lessen the grind for his next upgrade. The new player is frustrated because he's not in an environment where he can learn to get better, the veteran is frustrated because he's not getting a clear... there's no winners.

I agree with you completely, there really needs to be a steady curve from casual to hardcore content in the game.

[TaigaUC]

It's a fallacy to believe that leveling teaches people how to play.
Leveling is a system that serves these purposes:
- Allows shit players to overcome challenges without improving their actual skill
- Makes people feel they're progressing in some way
- Artificially extends gameplay content and time

I expect the majority of level 99999 people in most games are still just as shit as they were at level 1.

[wefwq]

Maybe they have to lock CQ for those whose their level are low enough on main ship somehow.
It's not really fun when you're being hold back by people who are dying every 3 mins because they "don't really know" how to use particular weapon types and crying out loud when they're getting shout at.


It's a fallacy to believe that leveling teaches people how to play.
Leveling is a system that serves these purposes:
- Allows shit players to overcome challenges without improving their actual skill
- Makes people feel they're progressing in some way
- Artificially extends gameplay content and time

I expect the majority of level 99999 people in most games are still just as shit as they were at level 1.
That's depend on the game, though.
When the game start to lock stuff (or "actual content" in this case) behind and require actual skill to unlock/accomplish, then everything will be fine or at least end-game will be filled with player with passable skills, basic knowledge and strategies.
The problem is, leveling on PSO2 are actually just EQ simulator with daily client order memory game, TA, AQ and XQ are walk in the park, CQ are open for everybody too without any exception.

[amberkun]

what time do you guys do CM?

[gone4]

Locking the game to what your level is on the main ship would probably make pugs worse. Some good cmode players only have level 1 characters (only ever play cmode) and they won't be able to join the block if there's a barrier to entry.

Players should really be able to judge their own skill and join the appropriately assigned block in shared ship. The blocks are named differently for a reason. The beginner block usually fills enough for games. Shouldn't really be joining the yarikomi(efficiency) block if you're grave is in the first room of mission 1 (I have actually seen this before).

Although it's probably the case where the beginners are selfish or just think they are better than actually are, and they join the efficiency block. With many of these players they weigh down the pug, usually a few can be carried but if there is too many m10 probably won't be reached.

[Flaoc]

Shouldn't really be joining the yarikomi(efficiency) block if you're grave is in the first room of mission 1 (I have actually seen this before).


wait.. what?

[KazukiQZ]

^Maybe means 'Shouldn't really joining the Efficiency Block if you always die repeatedly in Mission 1'.

[gone4]

wait.. what?

I have no idea what they were attempting but I think he started a game early before 12 players got in, and everyone then ditched that game. Could see that they had all the classic signs: mission start, picking up VR incorrectly and not really doing anything useful. They got carried pretty bad.

[Kusurian]

what time do you guys do CM?

I mentioned the times that I do Challenge Mode somewhere else in the thread. I'll repeat it anyways, about 8 to 9 AM EST and then 11 PM EST.

[Kusurian]

I can honestly say that the groups that I was with today made it to Missions 5 and 7. Way too many people dropping dead throughout both runs.

[Sora3100]

Out of curiosity, what block are you trying on?

[jiasu73]

cleared 6 times today np i still need to clear duo with a fellow gaijin though if anyone is intrested pm me plz

[Dammy]

cleared 6 times today np i still need to clear duo with a fellow gaijin though if anyone is intrested pm me plz

hey! calling everyone gaijins was my thing

[Zorafim]

hey! calling everyone gaijins was my thing

I think everyone is doing it nowadays.
You gaijin.

[jiasu73]

I just want to clear duo with a fellow english speaking player before cm2 comes out ;;

[TwistedShaerk]

Can't help you there, too much of a scrublord at Cmode to constantly clear.

[Xaelouse]

Cmode sucks, I can't believe everyone was so hype for it months ago including me. Not even interested in CM2.

With that said, it's nice that every group I've been in has made it to 50% M10 to a clear.

[Kusurian]

Out of curiosity, what block are you trying on?

Well I tried going to 403 and 421, that's where I reached Mission 5 and 7. Block 421 was where I was when I reached Mission 5, and then Block 403 I reached Mission 7. Both blocks were completely full at the time of doing this. I stopped trying after those two runs, perhaps I'll try another one tonight.

[Sora3100]

403 is a beginner block, no idea about 421, try in the 436-449 block range

[Kusurian]

403 is a beginner block, no idea about 421, try in the 436-449 block range

I'm quite aware what Block 403 is, that doesn't change the fact that the group I was with made it to Mission 7. They weren't absolutely horrible but still many dropped dead quite often, well mostly the same people did.

[milranduil]

Why would you expect people to know what they're doing at all in a beginner block is what I think he's getting at.

[Kusurian]

Why would you expect people to know what they're doing at all in a beginner block is what I think he's getting at.

Well I understood that much, but honestly I didn't think the group would make it to Mission 7. It was more of a test to see if there were any good people in that Block.

[Achelousaurus]

Just was in a terrible jp group.
Was about to try to get aggro from Burn Draal but thought better of it when I saw this guy using Barta and I had only a rifle.
Ok, off to kill the Gwana.
Except, barta guy was nowhere to be found and Burn Draal took a liking to me, killing me twice in a row.

Burn Draal also killed like 4 other guys close enough so someone in the middle could revived us all with a single moon.
Except, someone chose to revive only the others and I was out of range.

Then Gwana died when I was dead. And suddenly everyone in the mpa was out of moons (announcing it) and left for the Interval area.
And I was still dead in area 1.
Alone.

[milranduil]

Just was in a terrible jp group.
Was about to try to get aggro from Burn Draal but thought better of it when I saw this guy using Barta and I had only a rifle.
Ok, off to kill the Gwana.
Except, barta guy was nowhere to be found and Burn Draal took a liking to me, killing me twice in a row.

Burn Draal also killed like 4 other guys close enough so someone in the middle could revived us all with a single moon.
Except, someone chose to revive only the others and I was out of range.

Then Gwana died when I was dead. And suddenly everyone in the mpa was out of moons (announcing it) and left for the Interval area.
And I was still dead in area 1.
Alone.

Did this person note that they are doing aggro before m1? If people don't at least determine VR manager, aggro, funji, and vr rush before starting portal, just leave.

[TaigaUC]

if you die, you can run back from the camp ship.
However, the multi won't be able to regain time from throwing a moon.

[Zorua]

Why are people bailing on 12/12 parties right as the teleporter starts?

[final_attack]

Oh right, about VR Manager role atm ..... is it the same as before over-fill VR implemented?
Pick-up VR but don't over-fill, and pick the rest for points once someone rushed?

[oratank]

Why are people bailing on 12/12 parties right as the teleporter starts?

because somebody need to make sure this is not bad mpa by talking about people in that mpa what role they have to and which side they will take on m5,7

[wefwq]

if you die, you can run back from the camp ship.
However, the multi won't be able to regain time from throwing a moon.
Let's say if the incapacitated player stay dead until interval force-bail, will the dead stay on MPA or gets pulled over into interval and revived over there?


Why are people bailing on 12/12 parties right as the teleporter starts?
It's either because
-One or two of them are DC'd
-The round start without anyone taking role as VR pickup manager
-No one planning whose will handle vol on M2 beforehand
-No one planning whose will handle funji on M6
-Someone are afk in your MPA and piss people off
-Someone fucked the VR pickup and didn't say anything


Oh right, about VR Manager role atm ..... is it the same as before over-fill VR implemented?
Pick-up VR but don't over-fill, and pick the rest for points once someone rushed?
JP public seems to be still adopt the old method, dunno about how locked MPA handle things tho but i assume it's about the same unless it's organized one.

[Maenara]

Certain challenge mode blocks should require your character to be above a certain cumulative level(Cumulative as in the sum of all your classes' levels), with beginner blocks only requiring 40 cumulative level, and efficiency blocks requiring 300 cumulative.

---

Had a run today where I was VR manager. We got to M5, I went left. Get to Goldrahda room, clear it. Random JP person suddenly decides that the they should pick up up the 30% VR capsule that clearing Goldrahda room unlocks since it won't overfill.
So now we turn back around, head towards other side, kill cougar. Because that JP person had to pick up the capsule, I'm stuck waiting in Cougar room waiting for VR to go down so I can pick up the 30% without overfilling. End result is that Falz Arms on other side die before that happens, causing me to teleport into the center instead of to Falz Arm room, thereby completely missing the 15% capsule in the Falz Arm room.

If you're not VR manager, even if you're not overfilling, you should NEVER pick up VR capsules. The only time it's ever okay is if the mission is literally going to fail if you don't.

[TaigaUC]

No idea what happens if time runs out with dead, but I'd imagine you wouldn't get the time bonus.
I still don't think level means anything. I know people who are 75 in multiple classes but wouldn't be able to handle Challenge.
And I've seen far more who are much, much, much worse.

[Maenara]

No idea what happens if time runs out with dead, but I'd imagine you wouldn't get the time bonus.
I still don't think level means anything. I know people who are 75 in multiple classes but wouldn't be able to handle Challenge.
And I've seen far more who are much, much, much worse.

The point is, that above a cumulative level of 75, someone is guaranteed to have at least some experience with a second class. If efficiency blocks require a cumulative level of 300, that means that every single player you ever play with in them, has, at MINIMUM, experience with four out of 8 classes.

[LonelyGaruga]

Actually, no, not at all.

And you don't even need to be experienced at a class to be able to play CM efficiently. Just how to use 1-2 PAs on a few weapons.

[TaigaUC]

Pasting this over to a new post:

If SEGA had an interest in segregating groups based on skill, they could do it. They have tons of data on each player.
There's the number of deaths, the kind of equipment they use, the titles they have reveal their habits, such as grinding, and so on.
I'm sure they could also track how efficient a player is at Challenge.

But what would happen? You'd have all the shit players stuck with shit players.
All the good players would only be with good players, which would just result in elitism issues.
SEGA doesn't want that. They want good players to help the shit players, by mixing them together.
But in reality, that doesn't work either. A single shit player ruins good runs.
Or they just get hand-held and don't improve.


So, how to make people suck less at Challenge?

First off, they should at least add some kind of single-player practice mode that doesn't waste an hour.
But probably nobody would do that because there's no incentive.
So... force them to complete some kind of test run. No complete? No Challenge.
Why a separate test run? Because Challenge is completely different from regular runs.
They need to wean people into it, so they know what to do.
Oh, and it NEEDS to be solo, or else someone else would just complete it for them, and they would still have no idea where they went wrong.

Secondly, I think Challenge should probably rely less on incentives.
Most people only do Challenge for the goodies, and then they stop.
Whenever there's a boost or new goodies added, there'll be an influx of newbies who just want the rewards and don't care about the game.
I would prefer if they added more short Challenges for fun. You know, to have something fun to do. For FUN.
Not this "one new hour long Challenge per several months" bullshit.

Thirdly, they should make stuff like VR capsules more moron-friendly.
People who don't care about how anything works will just pick up the VR capsules.
As it is now, SEGA makes it look like you should pick them up whenever, and nothing suggests otherwise.
Do you think we'd have the same problem with VR capsules if there was a huge red message saying "YOU WASTED 90% OF THE CAPSULE"? I don't think so.
Right now, people make mistakes and have no idea that they made the mistake.
So they'll just keep repeating the same mistakes, and thinking it must have been everyone else screwing up.

Fourthly, those who haven't seen the later missions have no idea what to expect.
They won't be playing with the later missions in mind, and this is crucial for a full clear.
Not sure what to do about that, other than telling people to do research.


The point is, that above a cumulative level of 75, someone is guaranteed to have at least some experience with a second class. If efficiency blocks require a cumulative level of 300, that means that every single player you ever play with in them, has, at MINIMUM, experience with four out of 8 classes.

Yeah, but experience still relies on how the individual learns from it.
A person could have 75 in every class and still have no idea how to use any of the weapons.
And they could have been playing like that for years. I'm certain there are people like that.

I think the best solution is to add that "obtain a Challenge Mode license" practice run requirement that I suggested above.
It could include some primers on how to use each weapon, and how to manage the VR timer.

Challenge Mode right now is basically what would happen if a prestigious top-class academy opened its doors to every person and their dog.
Actually, the same could be said of more difficult modes.

In reality, people don't get automatically promoted just by spending time (eg. leveling).
Usually, only people who are good at what they do (or have friends in the right places) are trusted to complete difficult responsibilities.
But in a game like PSO2, anyone can reach the same rank and participate, without having any worthwhile skills whatsoever.
I think that's where the problem lies. Even cumulative level is little more than piece of paper saying "I reached max level".



Tl;dr: SEGA needs to add a solo Challenge Quest trial that teaches people the basics. No complete, no Challenge.

[Maenara]

Actually, no, not at all.

And you don't even need to be experienced at a class to be able to play CM efficiently. Just how to use 1-2 PAs on a few weapons.

Okay, you're right. It's better to just let everyone who gets a Very Hard License pug into any unlocked Cmode run. Sega shouldn't implement even halfassed measures to separate players by even rudimentary measures of skill and/or experience.

[wefwq]

Tl;dr: SEGA needs to add a solo Challenge Quest trial that teaches people the basics. No complete, no Challenge.
Use the quest as a lock, having people must S rank it first before able to play real challenge quest.
But then again, it's sega we're talking about they want casul audience and that's about it.

[LonelyGaruga]

There is zero correlation between player level on the main game and skill level in CM. Honestly, you should know that's the case. It doesn't take very much thought to realize that there are people who have low level alt characters but play a lot of CM. There are people that jump right into CM and don't touch the main game. Any sort of level requirement is simply an unnecessary road block that doesn't even do anything for CM.

The best thing that can be done is to keep everyone informed on how to run CM. Guides are a good start. Communication is another thing that can be done. People need to ask questions, and people need to actively inform others of how CM works. Another important thing is that everyone actually knows how to play CM. Of course, strategies evolve over time, but it's still a good idea to try to keep up with the latest information to allow for the best runs.

Of course you're gonna have the occasional dumbass, but a level requirement is not going to keep those out in the slightest. Most of the worst players I've met were level capped. It doesn't mean anything. It's all up to the individual, not their in-game status.

[Totori]

Yep, just practice and informing new people is the best thing. Having some sort of lame lockout isn't going to do anything, but make it more dead, for the people that find it a hassle, and end up getting there extremely late.

[TaigaUC]

I think that if a person doesn't want to bother completing a short test to introduce them to the gameplay mode, they probably won't care enough to play the mode properly.
In which case, they shouldn't be jumping into proper runs and ruining it for everyone else.

Also note that my suggestion doesn't stop people from intentionally being assholes.
I tried Magatsu a few days ago. The same JP Ranger asshole kept leaving within a few minutes. Every time.
They didn't even know how to use WB properly. They may have been the same person overwriting good WBs and placing them on random body parts.
Probably being an asshole on purpose.

They should add a few anti-asshole systems.
1. If you do absolutely nothing in C-Mode (or EQs), you get penalized or receive nothing.
2. If you keep picking up VR capsules and wasting VR, the game tracks how much time you've wasted and you get penalized.
3. The game should be able to track people constantly leaving runs. People ought to be penalized for doing it too often.
4. If you keep doing the above repeatedly, you get banned from C-Mode (or EQs) for a day? Maybe.

[Kondibon]

In which case, they shouldn't be jumping into proper runs and ruining it for everyone else.Shouldn't "proper" runs be locked and pasworded? I get where people are coming from, but I've already expressed my feelings towards complaining about pugs, let along pugs in something that isn't as severely time limited as EQs, several times.

[TaigaUC]

I guess so, but I think it'd be nice if the game was designed in a better way so as to prevent PUGs from sucking so much.
I mean, what's the point of having PUGs if so many people have no idea what to do? Game design issue.

The same goes for setting up organized runs.
There's so much they could do towards making organizing easier.
As I suggested previously, I'd really like to be able to fill empty group slots with randoms.
I haven't played many recent MMOs, but I wonder if PSO2 is the only modern game without a proper group search system.

[Totori]

They should add a few anti-asshole systems.
1. If you do absolutely nothing in C-Mode (or EQs), you get penalized or receive nothing.
2. If you keep picking up VR capsules and wasting VR, the game tracks how much time you've wasted and you get penalized.
3. The game should be able to track people constantly leaving runs. People ought to be penalized for doing it too often.
4. If you keep doing the above repeatedly, you get banned from C-Mode (or EQs) for a day? Maybe.

With 3 and 4. That can be kinda a pain for peeps with terrible internet though. Still a pain when people disconnect, yes. Just should really expect to always finish mission 10 in every random group, it's really not gonna happen. For that just make a set MPA. More coordination that way.

[Kondibon]

I guess so, but I think it'd be nice if the game was designed in a better way so as to prevent PUGs from sucking so much.
I mean, what's the point of having PUGs if so many people have no idea what to do? Game design issue.

The same goes for setting up organized runs.
There's so much they could do towards making organizing easier.
As I suggested previously, I'd really like to be able to fill empty group slots with randoms.
I haven't played many recent MMOs, but I wonder if PSO2 is the only modern game without a proper group search system.Personally I think one of the biggest problems with the game's design is that a lot things are designed to be done in a way that ends up not being optimal, thus putting people who get the surface concept at odds with the people who understand the deeper mechanics. The fact that they're going to make VR capsules reward bonus miles for overflowing is going to make it worse. Personally I think they should just let the VR bar go into some sort of "overtime", but that's a different conversation.

Another good examples is GW2 where a lot of tricks people do to make dungeon runs quicker or easier are unintuitive or counter to what the devs meant you to do. Likewise a lot of open world events are actually more rewarding if you let them fail and start over, something people aren't going to automatically know, and goes against the design of the game.

Going back to what I said about the VR capsule thing, it's unituitive that the things you're meant to pick up shouldn't be picked up immediately. The best solution would make it so there's no loss if you pick them up when it's full.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, the problem isn't just bad players but the fact that theings you should be doing aren't intuitive enough, or run counter to what the most obvious thing to do is (another, less important example would be elder's arms). So the solution isn't simply splitting the playerbase but making the game mechanics more intuitive and consistent (picking up VR caps is good, it should always be good).

Or something like that.

[wefwq]

I think that if a person doesn't want to bother completing a short test to introduce them to the gameplay mode, they probably won't care enough to play the mode properly.
In which case, they shouldn't be jumping into proper runs and ruining it for everyone else.

Also note that my suggestion doesn't stop people from intentionally being assholes.
I tried Magatsu a few days ago. The same JP Ranger asshole kept leaving within a few minutes. Every time.
They didn't even know how to use WB properly. They may have been the same person overwriting good WBs and placing them on random body parts.
Probably being an asshole on purpose.

They should add a few anti-asshole systems.
1. If you do absolutely nothing in C-Mode (or EQs), you get penalized or receive nothing.
2. If you keep picking up VR capsules and wasting VR, the game tracks how much time you've wasted and you get penalized.
3. The game should be able to track people constantly leaving runs. People ought to be penalized for doing it too often.
4. If you keep doing the above repeatedly, you get banned from C-Mode (or EQs) for a day? Maybe.
Maybe making something like cooldown timer to retake a quest if you abandoning it? and the amount of waiting time will increase depend on how much you abandoning quest continuously
But it'll fuck with some quest on main ship like when people just want to clear certain CO/DO and didn't plan to finish the quest itself...

[jiasu73]

:( no fellow foreigner wants to duo

[TaigaUC]

@Kondibon
You're right, it's unintuitive. That's the word I wanted to use.
Overtime would probably work well, since there are limited capsules.
Makes me wonder why there's such a limit.

@wewfq
Cooldown timer sounds like a good idea.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've probably just had more brainstorming and game design discussion than SEGA has had for a long time!

[Rehal]

Had a run today where I was VR manager. We got to M5, I went left. Get to Goldrahda room, clear it. Random JP person suddenly decides that the they should pick up up the 30% VR capsule that clearing Goldrahda room unlocks since it won't overfill.
So now we turn back around, head towards other side, kill cougar. Because that JP person had to pick up the capsule, I'm stuck waiting in Cougar room waiting for VR to go down so I can pick up the 30% without overfilling. End result is that Falz Arms on other side die before that happens, causing me to teleport into the center instead of to Falz Arm room, thereby completely missing the 15% capsule in the Falz Arm room.

If you're not VR manager, even if you're not overfilling, you should NEVER pick up VR capsules. The only time it's ever okay is if the mission is literally going to fail if you don't.

Couldn't you take a detour to the other side instead of running into the teleporter?

Or did SEGA change stuffs after introducing the overfill bonus? . w.

[Maenara]

Couldn't you take a detour to the other side instead of running into the teleporter?

Or did SEGA change stuffs after introducing the overfill bonus? . w.

The second Falz Arm died right as I was using the teleporter, didn't react fast enough.

[Zorafim]

The community in FFXIV has an interesting solution to difficult fights. Often, fights are released where a small mistake can wipe the party, so every player needs to play perfectly. Since a single new player can make a run impossible, the community split the fight up into three different types of groups.
You can create a:

Learning party, where you learn the basic mechanics of the fight. The fight isn't expected to get past 50% before the group fails.
Clear party, where the goal is to simply complete the fight. The party will break as soon as the fight is complete, and it's not guaranteed that they'll be able to get through it.
Farm parties, where everyone is expected to know the fight inside and out. Because everyone has to play perfectly to clear a run, and everyone is expected to have completed a clear party, failures are rare.

As has been mentioned, splitting the community up to teach them how a fight or level works is the way to go. A system like this, even if it's all player based, will help tremendously with the organization of these runs. If a party is all learning together, they can take each obstacle at a time, learning about new ones as they practice old ones. If a party already knows everything, they can just focus on the end rewards.


Ladies and gentlemen, we've probably just had more brainstorming and game design discussion than SEGA has had for a long time!

Welcome to Phantasy Star.
You'll be surprised how much more thought the fanbase puts into games than the designers. That's part of the reason fanmade games can be so much better than official ones.


There is zero correlation between player level on the main game and skill level in CM.

Well... It's more likely a player who has reached cap is more skilled than a player who just started. What that likeliness is, and how much more skill, I cannot say. That being said, I don't think levels are the answer. I just think the player should have some kind of test they need to complete to see if they have the skill to do this. Because if they don't, it's frustrating for both the player and those he parties with.

[Kusurian]

Considering attempting a few more runs sometime today, not sure when though...

[TaigaUC]

Tried a shared ship run. First time playing in months. Super tired, playing with one eye closed.
Was awful, people dying all over the place.
Some asshole started the Mission 2 gauntlet while everyone was loading and triggered a Mizer.
I was constantly attacking everything and still only took my first hit or second hit from Fang in Mission 4.
On Mission 5, I went left. Right side got decimated by Code Avoid.
It was just like when I first tried Challenge!

Yeah. Frustrating. Sucked.

Tried to get into a few runs after that, but everyone just loves to idle at the teleporter for hours.
I'm literally spending more time waiting for 12/12 runs to start than doing Challenge.
Thanks, SEGA.

[Zorafim]

Let me tell you. There are few things more frustrating than failing a task while doing it perfectly.

[Raujinn]

Most of the groups I'm choosing to abandon are the ones who fail to assign roles before taking the warp. I can permit a certain number of mistakes, even deaths really, as it seems like as long as people are smart about moon use death almost doesn't matter at all.

[Sora3100]

I did 4 runs since the boost started and all of them made it into m9, though some of my runs have had people that bought super extensive stuff like the DB at i1, the DB at i3, and then one guy used vita dual blade instead of yoi at funji (props to him though because he still finished ragne faster than we did with rockbears)

[TaigaUC]

Dead tired. I ended up doing VR pickup for the first time ever.
Still ended up saving the multi from a ton of stuff while picking up VR.

On Mission 5, I said I'd tag the Gel Bulfs, and asked them to stand back a little.
Instead they all stand right next to me, so of course the Gel Bulfs run amok and killed people.
Thankfully the guy who got on the turret had better aim than the one in Mission 4.

Did the Fanji as well. I thought I was screwed because I was so tired I forgot to put Heavenly Kite on the palette.
Nope, still managed to survive because I bought some cheap sub units just in case.
Nobody wanted to give me Vol units, and so far everyone loves to fail the gauntlets.
Some fools keep triggering the damn Mizers.
I was also underlevelled because they couldn't kill the first Tagamikaduchi in time.

People sometimes tell me my Japanese is better than native speakers.
That's not hard to achieve when almost nobody ever talks.

Noticed a few mistakes with my Mission 7 walkthrough.
All thanks to nobody going left, so I had to do it for the first time ever.
Fixed now.

[Kusurian]

I managed to make it to Mission 9 once today out of the few runs that I did.

[Achelousaurus]

Ladies and gentlemen, we've probably just had more brainstorming and game design discussion than SEGA has had for a long time!
AMEN!


I think that if a person doesn't want to bother completing a short test to introduce them to the gameplay mode, they probably won't care enough to play the mode properly.
In which case, they shouldn't be jumping into proper runs and ruining it for everyone else.

Also note that my suggestion doesn't stop people from intentionally being assholes.
I tried Magatsu a few days ago. The same JP Ranger asshole kept leaving within a few minutes. Every time.
They didn't even know how to use WB properly. They may have been the same person overwriting good WBs and placing them on random body parts.
Probably being an asshole on purpose.

They should add a few anti-asshole systems.
1. If you do absolutely nothing in C-Mode (or EQs), you get penalized or receive nothing.
2. If you keep picking up VR capsules and wasting VR, the game tracks how much time you've wasted and you get penalized.
3. The game should be able to track people constantly leaving runs. People ought to be penalized for doing it too often.
4. If you keep doing the above repeatedly, you get banned from C-Mode (or EQs) for a day? Maybe.
Agreeing with the first 2.
But the others are bad ideas. Especially, dcs are common and even when not it's not the bad players that quit. It's the decent ones that know the mpa is so bad it's only a huge waste of time.
Mandatory cmode tutorial would be nice. You have to actually complete it to be able to do regular cmode, so you have proven you got some basic cmode skills.

But honestly, we do not need any of this.
All we need is 4 player quests. There, done.
Very easy to get 4 people. Very easy to single anyone out being an idiot in a 4 player quest, which is why it happens very rarely and if you can easily tell them to play properly or kick them if they continue being idiots.

I also got a question.
Whats a good amount to get from a mediocre mpa?
I have like one buddy to do cmode with and I got generally bad luck with mpas so when can I say it was decent for randoms and the result was nice?

[Zorafim]

People are constantly penalized in other online games for leaving groups, though. You're often slapped with the inability to join another group for half an hour if you voluntarily leave. And for the most part, it works great!

[Mattykins]

Man, mpas really are killing this game, which is why I enjoyed the brief revival of AQs during boost week. I want more satisfying 4-man quests, but Sega just keeps swinging their mpa boner around and smacking us in the face with it.

[Squal_FFVIII]

For the sake of not starting a new thread, I will ask my question here since it's cmode related.

I'm a bit confused on the item drops.

For example, can I pick up random loot that drops from monsters such as monomates/PA disc/weapons/etc etc?

Or are all the items that drop from random monsters shared? Meaning that everyone in the MPA can see the exact same item drops that I see and they can also pick them up.

I'm hearing conflicting answers to this questions so I figured id ask here for help from someone who knows what they are talking about.

[Mattykins]

The usual loot is your own, the glowing white things are shared since that's what people drop.

[Squal_FFVIII]

Ahh ok so basically everything that drops aside from green capsules/glowing white things I can pick up then. Good to know.

For a sec there I thought I was hogging all of the items >.<

[Atmius]

Most of the groups I'm choosing to abandon are the ones who fail to assign roles before taking the warp.
Ironically, while I haven't completed a full run as of yet (m10/80% is my best thusfar), the one run that did organise roles outside of vr/m2 tag at the start was the one that didn't even clear m5, while even the absolutely atrocious start of a run I had earlier managed m9/63%.

[Flaoc]

i really dont get why they waste their time doing this i mean seriously just stfu and get down to assigning asap stop waiting for people to say this bs.. sigh the struggles of team isnt on right now

http://grabilla.com/0580c-7a85343a-1239-4695-8b87-dd9f70f62706.png

[Renderless]

JP players do that in nearly every game where you play with other players. It's just proper manners.

Unless I'm missing something and you aren't talking about their greetings.

[Zorafim]

Man, mpas really are killing this game

I stopped playing because of MPAs. The only way to level is being in an MPA. The only way to be in an MPA is to be on a certain block, which you may be blocked out of, unable to play. If there are no MPAs your level, you are unable to play. And even if you're in an MPA, all you do is run around and kill things the second they spawn.
Frustrating to get into, boring once you're in.

[Flaoc]

JP players do that in nearly every game where you play with other players. It's just proper manners.

Unless I'm missing something and you aren't talking about their greetings.

oh trust me i am.. its pointless as hell and wasting time just fracking assign already /vent

[Mattykins]

Hey, that guy who ran ahead in m6 just now and locked us out of Tagami, I hope you come to this forum, because I'm calling you out :T

[yoshiblue]

oh trust me i am.. its pointless as hell and wasting time just fracking assign already /vent

Ideally, starting everything off with a warm or friendly tone would cause people to treat you in kind, causing less issues in the future.

[Flaoc]

Hey, that guy who ran ahead in m6 just now and locked us out of Tagami, I hope you come to this forum, because I'm calling you out :T

did he go to wolga/hunar or just pick the red box like an idiot (either way is stupid tbh)

[Mattykins]

He picked the red box. I dunno what he expects me to do with this Illusion Rave disc, but I won't know now since what would've been a likely clear just ended in m9 :T

[Flaoc]

He picked the red box. I dunno what he expects me to do with this Illusion Rave disc, but I won't know now since what would've been a likely clear just ended in m9 :T

reminds me of someone who grabbed the vr in m2 instead of picking the doll.. the rest of the mpa so confused and naturally i was venting irl about how stupid they are (not in game)

no doll and low moons same run dunno how we made it to 2nd half of mizer room in m10

[fay]

Can someone please explain this to me.

*Mission gets to 12/12
*People just stand there talking for at least 10-15 minutes. If I start it they say wait.
*Mission finally gets started.
*People then instantly leave.

Why the hell do people play this if all the want to do there is stand and talk. Like seriously. I'm constantly waiting for ages to get a game started, and when I do people leave anyway. What the hell is the point in even trying to play this mode.

[Flaoc]

Can someone please explain this to me.

*Mission gets to 12/12
*People just stand there talking for at least 10-15 minutes. If I start it they say wait.
*Mission finally gets started.
*People then instantly leave.

Why the hell do people play this if all the want to do there is stand and talk. Like seriously. I'm constantly waiting for ages to get a game started, and when I do people leave anyway. What the hell is the point in even trying to play this mode.

while they technically should be just getting straight to role assign then start they clearly dont which is my exact issue with this hence my whole stfu and just assign already mindset.. also the insta leave might be either 630 or someone fucked up

[Xaelouse]

thirding the "assign your shit asap instead of wasting 30 minutes discussing the flowchart for the flowchart quest" thing
I walk in with a title like "First" to get it out of the way. To make this quicker. To get points quicker

[Meteor Weapon]

You know what this guy did?

He fucking glitched enemy spawn with him teleporting beyond the wall limit.

At B442 atm.

I don't feel safe playing with this guy being everywhere.

edit:And he's gone from the block :/

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/11221543_1024385287585954_4828813923370934778_o.jp g

[Sora3100]

My friend just warned me about this, guess it's real huh

[Meteor Weapon]

Seriously...what the flying fuck?

https://scontent-sin1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11896559_1024390190918797_5415165131433503530_o.jp g

[fay]

I think the fucks are just jumping, not flying.

[Vatallus]

442 block seems to be that special block today. I was there with 3 other teammates. Never ran into that hacker but ran into a couple of terrible english players, and by terrible I mean spamming the chat with their bullshit and trying to dictate every little thing. Really wish I could remember the name atm.

Name was Cuddlemonster. There was also one more with him not as bad, but still another annoyance.

[Zanverse]

Good run I just had, but some people were being quite disrespectful despite me asking for them to have respect for others. Oh well.

[Vatallus]

Good run I just had, but some people were being quite disrespectful despite me asking for them to have respect for others. Oh well.

Yeah. I'm not sure what peoples problems are. Well most have my problems have been with english players sad to say.

Actually I shouldn't say much since I've only had one bad run today.

Even though in that one run alone some loudmouth said "Don't go afk you shit" because I wasn't right on teleport at the prestart area. Was trying to take care if real life business that only took a few minutes.

My teammate who is JP, speaks Japanese and English got called a lair and weeb when asked if he was Japanese or English. After that I ignored Cuddlemonster and whoever was with him.

Some english person was hitting on my other teammates female character.

All in one run. We didn't even finish it. left it at the first shop.

But I did see one neat thing today.

I didn't take time to take a great sceenshot but...
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150812_190356_001_zpsbkdyzmcv.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Akuma!!!

[Zanverse]

That's a very nice Akuma replica. Really really nice.

But yeah, I don't know what crawled up those english players, but some of them are so rude that it kinda makes me realize that this is probably how the JP players think we act all the time. No wonder they avoid us.

But JP players aren't so nice either. Yesterday after my first CM Boost Week run, I was using the on-screen chat translator and an JP player that was in my MPA walked by my friends and I, and called us all "Pathetic" then said "Don't even try". :-?

[Meteor Weapon]

did you respond back?

[Zanverse]

Of course not. I didn't want to cause any issues, so I just stayed silent.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

That's a very nice Akuma replica. Really really nice.

But yeah, I don't know what crawled up those english players, but some of them are so rude that it kinda makes me realize that this is probably how the JP players think we act all the time. No wonder they avoid us.

But JP players aren't so nice either. Yesterday after my first CM Boost Week run, I was using the on-screen chat translator and an JP player that was in my MPA walked by my friends and I, and called us all "Pathetic" then said "Don't even try". :-?

Where can i get this on screen chat translator again?

[Sora3100]

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204921

[ArcaneTechs]

442 block seems to be that special block today. I was there with 3 other teammates. Never ran into that hacker but ran into a couple of terrible english players, and by terrible I mean spamming the chat with their bullshit and trying to dictate every little thing. Really wish I could remember the name atm.

Name was Cuddlemonster. There was also one more with him not as bad, but still another annoyance.
He's the same guy that I had to unfortunately encounter during Lilipa UQ runs past 3-5 days with him crying that every mob killed didn't drop him a 13* Slave, every boss, burst etc no 13* dropped for him "Oh I got friendzoned" constantly crying about being friendzoned. He's geared horribly, getting carried by everyone in the mpa, won't stop complaining, told him to shut up "your just mad because you got friend zoned". Whole 'nother level of autism flowing through this guy. Gets mad when no one would revive him immediately either. He basically turned Twitch chat mode after telling him to shut up, really something.

tldr: black list and avoid him if you can

That's a very nice Akuma replica. Really really nice.

But yeah, I don't know what crawled up those english players, but some of them are so rude that it kinda makes me realize that this is probably how the JP players think we act all the time. No wonder they avoid us.

But JP players aren't so nice either. Yesterday after my first CM Boost Week run, I was using the on-screen chat translator and an JP player that was in my MPA walked by my friends and I, and called us all "Pathetic" then said "Don't even try". :-?
The stigma from Eng players acting the way they do all these years still sticks and thats why they act the way they do toward us. Course not all of us are like this but again, we have all the immature etc ones to blame for acting super stupid to JP players (and in general) that they have almost every reason to act the way they do toward us.

Hell, I have to confirm I speak some JP before I could even do CM with a JP mpa toward the middle of last month just so no one would leave and we could run. Made it to M10 but ran out of time

[TehCubey]

I too had the dubious pleasure of visiting block 442 today. Cuddlemonster and friends talking in English and being disruptive in the lobby, hacked MPAs (rockbear in the teleporter room, WTF?), joy. I left as soon as I could, without starting a single attempt. I don't want to be associated with this kind of people.

Also had 5 runs and not one went past m5. Not a good day for cmode.

[Zorua]

I always thought it was really funny how Japanese players are really friendly to me on my ship, but the second I step into shared ship, they start treating me like shit.

[Meteor Weapon]

lol I think i saw this cuddlemonster guy a few hours ago on 442, guess I'll avoid the guy for now.

[Vatallus]

I always thought it was really funny how Japanese players are really friendly to me on my ship, but the second I step into shared ship, they start treating me like shit.

Ship 9 is very calm when it comes to english and JP players. We don't really have any problems and I hope it stays that way. Most of my CM runs have been ok I think? I can't read what they say but if I am with teammates they generally tell me if something is up. If I am curious I'll start translating, especially if they are asking questions.

Have noticed at times when players act like they are ready to start and then drop MPA as soon as the run begins though.

[Rakurai]

People seem to assume that a lack of communication at the start is going to result in a bad group.

I haven't noticed much of a difference either way.

[Maenara]

Just had a group where one person bought Grand Cross in I1(Who does that anymore?) and refused to equip any other weapon besides that and Firearms for literally the entire mission.

In M6, they went ahead and did Funji, got it down to like 70% HP left before they died to Agrani.

In M4 and M9 they wasted time in Wolgahda/Bayaribbles room spamming attacks on the useless fog switches.

In M8, they spawned Mizer at the beginning.

Across the entire mission, they died over 8 times without a doll.

Literally every other player in the MPA was playing amazingly, but somehow we managed to only get a 50% M10 clear.

[untrustful]

One apple, spoiled bunch, etc

[Vatallus]

Hehehe. I just had an MPA that failed m5. I think there was a lot of new players in it because people can't be that bad... well except that one guy called Gilgamesh. By m5 he was still using a m1 rifle. D:

[Meteor Weapon]

So much for the king of Heroes huh.

[Vatallus]

So much for the king of Heroes huh.

The King of Heroes in fact did not have enough weapons.

[TaigaUC]

I can shine with Grand Cross, all the way to M7 or so. No problems.
But yeah, if you're not amazing with it, don't stick to it.

It also gets kinda repetitive after a while.
Variation is nice.

Edit: I really hate the block system.
It basically ensures players are gonna have to wait forever for the party to fill.

[lemonlight16]

i really dont get why they waste their time doing this i mean seriously just stfu and get down to assigning asap stop waiting for people to say this bs.. sigh the struggles of team isnt on right now

http://grabilla.com/0580c-7a85343a-1239-4695-8b87-dd9f70f62706.png

Maybe this is their way of determining which player doesn't speak Japanese, since gaijins obviously can't reply.

[Vatallus]

They like to spend 15 minutes deciding 2 things. These two things usually are who is VR manager and who is doing Fungi in m6. Anything beyond that is stuff that probably shouldn't be talked about except during the 5 minute IAs. This is also why the 1 hour "discussions" before the few private runs I've done pissed me off.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Maybe this is their way of determining which player doesn't speak Japanese, since gaijins obviously can't reply.

I copy pasta 'best regards' every time they do this. True story.

[Renderless]

It's not something the use to distinguish foreign players to JP players. It's a common thing for JP players to say some greetings and something to say after you are done playing with people.

When you first join a party, start a match, or w/e, players say, "よろしくお願いします" and when you are done, you say, "お疲れ様でした." As I said above, it's just plain proper manners.

[oratank]

This is also why the 1 hour "discussions" before the few private runs I've done pissed me off.

still better than end up at m3 random mpa

[Maenara]

I can shine with Grand Cross, all the way to M7 or so. No problems.
But yeah, if you're not amazing with it, don't stick to it.

It also gets kinda repetitive after a while.
Variation is nice.

In I4, my party member dropped a Niren Agito right in front of them and they refused to pick it up.

[TaigaUC]

That's not great.

Anyway, I tried a run just then and nobody volunteered to do anything. So I figured, hey, I'll do VR.
Then as soon as it starts, some EN player starts picking up VR.
Someone told them not to via Symbol Art, and that person left, with their buddy.

I have to wonder if those people are like, 5 years old or something.

And wow, never seen so many people die to Rockbear before. JP and EN.

[Vatallus]

still better than end up at m3 random mpa

Worse MPA I've had so far is a m5 fail. Everything else is m8+

[TaigaUC]

Had two close calls on M4 Banther.
Failed at or before M5 Code Avoid twice.

No gauntlet successes yet.
Not great.

Now 10 people can't kill Banther, failed on M4.
I don't understand how groups can be so terrible.

[Vatallus]

I don't understand why I've had ice barrels blown up on me 3 times today after the room is already cleared.

[TaigaUC]

That happened a lot in the organized groups I was in.

Shitty Challenge groups wouldn't be as bad if the first few maps weren't boring and easy as nuts.
It takes like 30 minutes just to get to the decent part, and then people fail there for like 1k miles.

[Naoya Kiriyama]

This topic derailed so much into "who gets the worst pugs ever".

Now seriously, I'm not moving into the reason why pug fails or anything, I'll just suggest again, organizing more runs here if you're tired of failing pugs, or your team if you're able to.

Situation reminds a lot of the first few months of CM when you had all kind of players and some players decided to organize some private runs of 8 people. So well, why don't you do the same? Until now, only saw one person taking charge of it since boost week started

[TaigaUC]

I've been trying to gather JP friends, but some feel organizing runs for something as long as Challenge is a pain, so they don't want to participate.
Others are going away for the weekend, or something. Most of them aren't on until JP night time.
The rest are still doing runs with that asshole who secretly blocked me.

I just need one more weapon to max out element on my second knuckles.
It's not that important... so I'm thinking of just giving up and waiting for Challenge 2.

[Mattykins]

The last organized run I had turned me off from organized runs on PSO-W, so I'm prolly gonna just try to stick to my teammates and friends when I can.

Fuck, I haven't seen a single challenge mile in over an hour; our mpas keep collapsing from people ditching at the start. Why is this even an mpa? Do the Japanese even like MPAs? Does anyone even like mpas?

[Vatallus]

I've been trying to gather JP friends, but some feel organizing runs for something as long as Challenge is a pain, so they don't want to participate.
Others are going away for the weekend, or something. Most of them aren't on until JP night time.
The rest are still doing runs with that asshole who secretly blocked me.

I just need one more weapon to max out element on my second knuckles.
It's not that important... so I'm thinking of just giving up and waiting for Challenge 2.

and here I am running random groups which most of them end up in m10. Need another 360k to finish off my other Ideal weapon. Right now its just me but usually during the daytime I can get 2-3 more people from my team into my party to suffer with me.

Can't say much for the other guy but I usually don't have problems with people ditching my MPAs... except once and I'm not sure why. Maybe its because I'm not ship 2 and letting them know I'm English. lol

I mean if my first encounter with English players was that Cuddlemonster guy from yesterday... I'd probably quit MPAs when I see English too.

[Ce'Nedra]

Did another PUG run that got to M10, failed moment we entered the last room. Run went rather flawless till m9. After that I tried again but already saw early this group wasn't gonna get far, the best part was someone decided to activate the Hunar route in m6. I'm suprised the MPA didn't abandon. We failed half way m7.

[milranduil]

They like to spend 15 minutes deciding 2 things. These two things usually are who is VR manager and who is doing Fungi in m6.

Actually aggro is one of the most important roles for CM. Without having it predetermined, you're going to lose time and dolls if burn/vomos aren't taken care of in 2, 5, and 7. Also, having VR rush predetermined is useful in the event that some mistakes were made and you need to rush in 2/4/5/7/9 to preserve a maximum VR at interval. During a good party, you will usually just rush m9 because you have plenty of VR left. Another common one that I see that is important, though not essential to the run, is deciding someone to rush wulf code and someone to turret them. Beyond that, more specific strategies are useful, but you might not see it since it's all JP. Example include, but are not limited to, people bossing vs mobbing when both are present, splitting m5/m10 final room up for people, etc.

[Rakurai]

I really hate when people say they're going to be the aggro holder, then they totally suck at it. Burn Draal shouldn't ever start its flame eruptions if it's being kited correctly.

Though I hate it more when I volunteer, then some random moron who wasn't paying attention tries to take over.

[TaigaUC]

I'm sure part of my shit luck is because I don't have premium to get into decent blocks.

[Vatallus]

Probably. I'm trying to break away from the "meta" launchers/twin daggers end game stuff. Tried blue partizan with bandersnatch for single target (boss) dps. Does something like 1100-1400 x3 on weakpoints. Do it in the air so you don't get pushed back.

Just bored of using the same setups each time because the game doesn't actually give us much to select from that isn't RNG.

[TaigaUC]

I use Twin Daggers/Swords/Machineguns and then Knuckles/Dual Blades/Bow.
Anything's good though.

Feels like the multis I've been in were really, really weak.
Haven't had time to check what kind of setups they have.

[Halikus]

I'm sure part of my shit luck is because I don't have premium to get into decent blocks.

This. Every party I've been in where the block is open to free players has ended prematurely with some terrible players in attendance. The prem blocks aren't that much better right now but you will see stage 7 most of the time at the very least.

[Poyonche]

Weird, when i play on my female character, I have no luck, only meh runs.

But when I play my male cast, i can get up to Mission 10.

RNGesus.

[Raujinn]

...I'd kind of like to learn how to do these roles so I could step up and help, but I have no idea how to go about that at this point besides reading, but theory only does so much. Nobody wants someone who has no experience with it 'cause they're likely to suck and hurt the run, and I don't want to be one of those.


Sort of how I feel. I know where the VR is, but as for routes and timings for picking them up I'm clueless and worried I'd mess up and given it's such a vital role...

Tagging can be dicey too, it's fine when you're in control of it but when someone else decides to fight you over aggro despite the TAGE over you head it can become messy real fast. Also occasionally the AI just plain doesn't behave like you'd expect it to.

[Z-0]

VR is just don't overfill, it's impossible to mess up and doesn't really need experience. Only thing you need to know is where all the hidden VR is, which you can just look at a map for.

There's a few other things, such as keeping with the party on the M3/8 mile rushes, and going back for VR at points in the stage instead of sitting at the VR caps, but you can just sit at the VR really, nobody will care as long as you don't overfill the VR.

[Massaki]

Just had a group where one person bought Grand Cross in I1(Who does that anymore?) and refused to equip any other weapon besides that and Firearms for literally the entire mission.

In M6, they went ahead and did Funji, got it down to like 70% HP left before they died to Agrani.

In M4 and M9 they wasted time in Wolgahda/Bayaribbles room spamming attacks on the useless fog switches.

In M8, they spawned Mizer at the beginning.

Across the entire mission, they died over 8 times without a doll.

Literally every other player in the MPA was playing amazingly, but somehow we managed to only get a 50% M10 clear.

It was hilariously bad. I honestly didn't think anyone could be that awful unless they were doing it on purpose.

If they indeed were.. well, shame on them.

It did leave me salty as shit, tho. I thought I was finally going to have a clear and then boom.

[Raujinn]

At this point I would rather back to back m6-7 failures than this standing around and people vaporising for either no reason or because no one stood up to the plate for roles. I've been guilty of the latter and well, now I'm gonna do something about it by actually volunteering for roles cause fuck it.

Cheers for the input, Z-0.

[Vatallus]

The thing is they don't actually discuss a lot of things before runs start. I've said it before and I've had teammates that can read and talk in japanese confirm it. 99% of the time we wait 15 minutes just because they are trying to pick someone to do VR and Fungi in m6. A lot of other things are just common sense.

Don't worry about it too much. You can volunteer if you want but if they realize you are English some of them actually will NOT want you doing certain roles. To be honest anyone that knows where the hidden VR caps are in m8+ is able to manage VR, but even VR management is something they might not let you do just because you are English. (Came across this yesterday in one MPA so just stating that it is a thing)

But yes, if you are willing to just straight up volunteer for something that would help speed things up a lot of the time.

[final_attack]

At this point I would rather back to back m6-7 failures than this standing around and people vaporising for either no reason or because no one stood up to the plate for roles. I've been guilty of the latter and well, now I'm gonna do something about it by actually volunteering for roles cause fuck it.

Well, based on earlier and yesterday experience on pug .... VR Manager kinda rare :/ And sometimes, Fanji too ...

In the end, I ended up doing both, doing VR but with exception on Fanji Mission (heck, you can also be a Tage too, depends on the mpa). When I did Fanji, I asked someone else to cover, on that map alone.

You should be able to do that too, granted, if you mainly use DB / Tmg for Fanji I guess .....

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, I've been doing VR + Fanji, and so has a JP friend of mine.
I think it's pathetic that I still have to carry the multi (aka doing the most damage) while managing VR.
Dunno why there are so many super weak people. Probably using Mission 1 weapons or something.

I think the problem is most people doing Challenge just do it for the rewards.
That's why there's this massive influx only during boost.
Those people don't care enough to learn Challenge outside of boost time.
Otherwise they wouldn't still be shit, after all this time.
If they did care, they'd know the roles and strategies.
Instead, they leave it to other people. That's why they suck.

[Dammy]

guys, please, equip units, mkay?
sick of seeing folks constantly dying because they are naked

[TaigaUC]

I'm rusty so I sometimes forget to equip units, and I'm still not really getting hit or dying.
Randoms have no idea how to handle Code Avoid. It's shameful.


私には役割の経験がありません
^ Would this be an okay way of saying "I don't have experience in any role"? For times when it's just one person prompting people to step up and nobody else says a word. Hm... or would "任意の役割の経験" be better? Two の in a row looks sloppy to me, but I'm also pretty sure a 4-year-old is more eloquent than I am.

I would say: "あまりやったことないんです。" I haven't really done it.
Or "なにもやったことないんです。" I haven't really done anything.
Or "初心者です。" I'm a novice/beginner.

I guess you could say: "役割経験がないんです" I have no role experience.
But I'm not 100% sure if that's correct.


Cheers for the input, Z-0.

My incomplete guide has a VR management tips section now.
Might be of use to you.

[LonelyGaruga]

Probably. I'm trying to break away from the "meta" launchers/twin daggers end game stuff. Tried blue partizan with bandersnatch for single target (boss) dps. Does something like 1100-1400 x3 on weakpoints. Do it in the air so you don't get pushed back.

Just bored of using the same setups each time because the game doesn't actually give us much to select from that isn't RNG.

Eh, launcher/TD end game isn't meta anymore. Katana is incredible DPS with Gekka jump cancels, and partisans are pretty much on par with launchers for mobbing with Slide Shaker. TD are still very valuable, but DBs can replace them with Heavenly Kite. TMGs are also good, mostly Klotov for innate Elder Rebellion though. I think any viably strong TMG performs effectively though, but not really sure, never used them in CM. One of the people I run with say BHS drops reliably enough that knuckles are pretty good for M10 as well.

Personally speaking, my setup is partisan + katana + TD/DB (DB if Heavenly Kite drops for me, TD otherwise), and this performs very effectively. Katana in general is probably one of the best weapons to use in CM since its DPS is so amazing. M9 Nova Strike/Slide Shaker on Fang trio is basically irrelevant when compared with Gekka, most M10 bosses get slaughtered by it (Falz Arm, Tranzexias, Cougar NX, Caters, even Vomos but gotta prioritize breaking wings first), and it's even good for mobbing with single targets since low cost and fast execution. Partisans and TD/DB probably don't require explanation.

Only thing not covered is a projectile for M8 Guardine room, but any tech weapon with Foie covers that effectively.

[Vatallus]

Ah. Last time I took Blue Daggers and Blue Partizan, but I really want to take a Blue Wand and make it work somehow. I could freeze Diabo a couple of times for 2 seconds of free hitting I guess. And yeah Katana is pretty neat imo if you get Endo. I think with correct gear and lv 3+ Endo the 11* katana drop from M9 does 4k x2. Never tried it with a blue katana or the m10 katana yet.

[milranduil]

blue wand please no.... just no.

[jiasu73]

Yeah, I've been doing VR + Fanji, and so has a JP friend of mine.
I think it's pathetic that I still have to carry the multi (aka doing the most damage) while managing VR.
Dunno why there are so many super weak people. Probably using Mission 1 weapons or something.

I think the problem is most people doing Challenge just do it for the rewards.
That's why there's this massive influx only during boost.
Those people don't care enough to learn Challenge outside of boost time.
Otherwise they wouldn't still be shit, after all this time.
If they did care, they'd know the roles and strategies.
Instead, they leave it to other people. That's why they suck.

im just wondering do you mostly play with pure pug?

[Vatallus]

Yeah, I've been doing VR + Fanji, and so has a JP friend of mine.
I think it's pathetic that I still have to carry the multi (aka doing the most damage) while managing VR.
Dunno why there are so many super weak people. Probably using Mission 1 weapons or something.

I think the problem is most people doing Challenge just do it for the rewards.
That's why there's this massive influx only during boost.
Those people don't care enough to learn Challenge outside of boost time.
Otherwise they wouldn't still be shit, after all this time.
If they did care, they'd know the roles and strategies.
Instead, they leave it to other people. That's why they suck.

A lot of people don't even do their fair share of work. I notice this a lot at the start of runs where most of our gear is copy and paste. At times I end up with only 1 vinc unit with wand lover setup and foie and I still somehow get boss aggro due to dps... against other wand lover users.

It confuses me since there should be able least one or two people lucky enough to make the full vinc set at the start. The damage increase you get from the full set makes a world of difference until Taga units drop.

[LonelyGaruga]

And yeah Katana is pretty neat imo if you get Endo. I think with correct gear and lv 3+ Endo the 11* katana drop from M9 does 4k x2. Never tried it with a blue katana or the m10 katana yet.

Sakura End isn't very good compared to Gekka. Stick with that instead.

[Raujinn]

Heard it was a better idea to hold off on units until i2, then fill in the gaps with sub/stamina.

As a foreigner pugging, this language gap is a serious pain in the ass. I can understand not wanting people who can't talk in important roles. I've volunteered to tag bosses a number of times in today's runs and someone else always takes the role from me before I have a chance to do it anyway so vOv.

[Vatallus]

Heard it was a better idea to hold off on units until i2, then fill in the gaps with sub/stamina.

As a foreigner pugging, this language gap is a serious pain in the ass. I can understand not wanting people who can't talk in important roles. I've volunteered to tag bosses a number of times in today's runs and someone else always takes the role from me before I have a chance to do it anyway so vOv.

I think it is really just self preference until later. I mean I play a bit aggressive so I really like the vinc units at I1, but I do agree that later on you would want to fill in anything you don't have with Sub/Stamina 2. While a lv 80 rare Diabo sounds intimidating it won't actually ohko if you have good units or 450ish hp. What I mean by good is I had Taga Set + Vol Legs giving over 450 HP and only took 250s from the attacks produced by Diabo in CM. I think it would stop a lot of MPA fails if people just tried to make sure they broke 400 HP and had a few mates or stars for Diabo.

[TaigaUC]

Oh yeah, was in some annoying groups yesterday who rarely dropped anything.
When doing VR management, I miss out on some drops, so it's really annoying when nobody wants to drop anything and I'm stuck with no PAs/skills.


im just wondering do you mostly play with pure pug?

Pretty much. So far I've done about 3 runs alone.
2 runs with 1 friend.
2-3 runs with another friend.
1 run with two friends.
Total of about 60k miles so far. Not great.

Only seen the M2 gauntlet clear twice.
Most runs failed at M5, one at M4. A few at M8. One at M7.
People are generally reluctant to decide roles.
Some runs don't have anyone talking at all.
Nearly every run had 1-2 people leave, almost immediately.
One run, someone activated the teleporter before we decided anything, so everyone left.

What annoys me most is I could be doing it with the organized group from before, had the organizer not secretly blocked me.
I can't even invite the people from that group because they're already taken.
And several of my other JP friends are busy this weekend, for various reasons.
I expect most of them will be around for Challenge 2 though.

[WEED420BLAZEIT]

been playing cmode again for yeah, miles.

the mpa won't start the teleporter until all roles are assigned:

the vr manager
the tag
the funji job
the go ahead first

spent like 10 min till all roles assigned and we made it to m10 80% all the time, and that's like 24-25 k miles per run

you guys need to calm down, it is not that bad

[TaigaUC]

@WEED420 BLAAAAAZE IT
There was someone a few pages back who said the same thing, and then their next run was epic fail.
It's all luck, cuz SEGA loves their RNG.

[SteelMaverick]

If you're playing on blocks below 436 don't expect any consistent M10 clears. I've played about 6 pubs runs so far with consistent M10 50%, M810 80% and one M10 100%. It's all about knowing where the experienced players congregate. Then again you're absolutely going to need premium to get on those blocks so good luck with that if you don't have.

[WEED420BLAZEIT]

@WEED420 BLAAAAAZE IT
There was someone a few pages back who said the same thing, and then their next run was epic fail.
It's all luck, cuz SEGA loves their RNG.

that's right mang, it's all luck no need to get so worked up. we all need to:

http://www.pso-world.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3957&stc=1&d=1439523059

[Vatallus]

Decided to try Gekka and Hein in m10 with the Banther katana. Was pretty good. I'm not use to timing katana blocks against Diabo though. Diabo died the same moment VR ran out... so 80%. Oh well. I got my clear title already I just want CM points to finish element grinds.

[TaigaUC]

So Vomos dying as time runs out means no clear? That's lame.

[Vatallus]

So Vomos dying as time runs out means no clear? That's lame.

Yep. It is pretty hilarious getting a "Challenge Completed" screen instead of "Congratulations" while Vomos is falling over dead.

[jiasu73]

Oh yeah, was in some annoying groups yesterday who rarely dropped anything.
When doing VR management, I miss out on some drops, so it's really annoying when nobody wants to drop anything and I'm stuck with no PAs/skills.



Pretty much. So far I've done about 3 runs alone.
2 runs with 1 friend.
2-3 runs with another friend.
1 run with two friends.
Total of about 60k miles so far. Not great.

Only seen the M2 gauntlet clear twice.
Most runs failed at M5, one at M4. A few at M8. One at M7.
People are generally reluctant to decide roles.
Some runs don't have anyone talking at all.
Nearly every run had 1-2 people leave, almost immediately.
One run, someone activated the teleporter before we decided anything, so everyone left.

What annoys me most is I could be doing it with the organized group from before, had the organizer not secretly blocked me.
I can't even invite the people from that group because they're already taken.
And several of my other JP friends are busy this weekend, for various reasons.
I expect most of them will be around for Challenge 2 though.
Why not join organized randoms or host a game? its a lot less stressful, quick and you clear pretty much 100% of the time.

[Vatallus]

I'm not sure why our runs are so different. Most of my runs make it to m10. Made 300k CM so far.

"First" actually clear during CM boost week though. Should be the 2nd but Vomos dying when the timer runs out doesn't count in game logic. :wacko:
[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150814_013209_000_zpsiprb41jg.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Really bad RNG on my end also. I'm using x2 Stamina II sub units and a Taga Arm unit. because I literally got nothing but x2 Taga Arm and x2 Arms from the m8/m9 box. First run where I only took Partizan though. Wouldn't mind more Katana runs if the PAs I want would drop more often.

Also I'm having game hiccups and I know why... *cough item translations so I can read IA shop items.* >.>

[TaigaUC]

Tried two more runs, first one had 1 person leave immediately, then 2 more at Interval 2. It was going so well, too.
Second run was going well until M5 Burn Drall, took too much time.

Still takes forever to decide roles because nobody wants to do anything.


Why not join organized randoms or host a game? its a lot less stressful, quick and you clear pretty much 100% of the time.

Any tips for joining organized randoms? Just go to random blocks and look for people?

[jiasu73]

Tried two more runs, first one had 1 person leave immediately, then 2 more at Interval 2. It was going so well, too.
Second run was going well until M5 Burn Drall, took too much time.

Still takes forever to decide roles because nobody wants to do anything.



Any tips for joining organized randoms? Just go to random blocks and look for people?

you search party lists and just join a 固定募集 with the conditions to your liking. You have a practice rooms/ clear title only rooms/ rooms that really emphasize no practice of roles and no leeches etc. I always host them myself and clearing is pretty much a given. I always host under the character Camellia/ Sylvia so if anyone wants to join mine give me a whisper ( please be cooperative though) or just give me a greeting/ask me if you can join normally in Japanese. Some hosts are bad and take forever to do the whole hosting thing but some are quick and fast.

[TaigaUC]

Okay, thanks.

[Ce'Nedra]

you search party lists and just join a 固定募集 with the conditions to your liking. You have a practice rooms/ clear title only rooms/ rooms that really emphasize no practice of roles and no leeches etc. I always host them myself and clearing is pretty much a given. I always host under the character Camellia/ Sylvia so if anyone wants to join mine give me a whisper ( please be cooperative though) or just give me a greeting/ask me if you can join normally in Japanese. Some hosts are bad and take forever to do the whole hosting thing but some are quick and fast.

What time and timezone you play? I don't have any particular role but would love to get a clear going for once.

[jiasu73]

What time and timezone you play? I don't have any particular role but would love to get a clear going for once.

im pst but i usually play between 16jst- 24 jst. Thinking of starting a game soon though, if you can give me a time, we can play today! I just ask you to split on teleports when i ask to and not buy bad reputation weapons like rifle and launcher in interval 1-2

[Ce'Nedra]

Well I have some form of common sense so no worries bout that. I tend to go Wand>Knuckle>Launcher>Dagger>Dagger at their respective intervals.

I think I might not be able to join you untill weekends that is sadly. I live in Europe in GMT+1, thats 9 hours ahead of you in time. So pretty much would only be able to play in my noons on the weekend, I think in JST time I could play arround 20-24jst or something. During the week however my time is super limited and It's mostly past midnight JST wise but in PST it would be something like 11am-2pm or so.

Can you even do a playersearch in Shared Ships? Might get a little hard to find you otherwise.

[jiasu73]

Well I have some form of common sense so no worries bout that. I tend to go Wand>Knuckle>Launcher>Dagger>Dagger at their respective intervals.

I think I might not be able to join you untill weekends that is sadly. I live in Europe in GMT+1, thats 9 hours ahead of you in time. So pretty much would only be able to play in my noons on the weekend, I think in JST time I could play arround 20-24jst or something.

Can you even do a playersearch in Shared Ships? Might get a little hard to find you otherwise.

alright lets just play sometime on the weekend then. Can just set a time to meet up i guess im usually online during 20-24jst. Edit: Oh you can just find me on ranklings. You can find me on the rankings of 2 weeks ago under the Character name Sylvia/ ID ★Tomia★. Im rank 4 with the score of 13838 just add my account from there

[Ce'Nedra]

Ok I will try that tonight if I don't forget. I can't really communicate in Japanese but I like to think I'm better then your avg random pug and can pull my weight although I'm also not much of an aggro type ^^;

[Cyber Meteor]

So close....... (i just want a completion for the rifle camo), 30 secs after Vomos appearance

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t650/CyberMeteor/Rare%20Findings/pso2.exe_2015-08-14-09-34-10-384_zpsnoquwfbm.png~original[/SPOILER-BOX]
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t650/CyberMeteor/Rare%20Findings/pso2.exe_2015-08-14-09-34-21-242_zpsrmylk9ss.png~original[/SPOILER-BOX]

It was in random mpa, however ppl were assigning all the roles before starting M1 it really makes a difference usually compared to 1 role or 2 or 0. I was the only english player of the mpa and wasn't really saying anything since i don't really know japanese aside from katakana ^^;, but it went pretty well. The 3 banthers took us time to defeat so we were at like 55-60% of VR energy at M10.

[jiasu73]

Ok I will try that tonight if I don't forget. I can't really communicate in Japanese but I like to think I'm better then your avg random pug and can pull my weight although I'm also not much of an aggro type ^^;

no worries i'll act as translator if you need anything, but i'll inform you on the flow and everything before i start recruiting so prolly wont need it. I do a few things differently from the usual organized pug and pure pug as well.

[Ce'Nedra]

Awesome, much appreciated and I hope we can get a clear going.

[Poyonche]

How are you guys going that far ? Are you in the B436 or Something like dat ?

My runs never go past Mission 5. :'(

100%pug

[Ce'Nedra]

Blocks don't matter tbh, its always a hit or miss with pugs. I been in all kinds of blocks from 436 to like 450 or so and its just as random as a good or bad EQ pug on ship 2.

[Cyber Meteor]

I was in B431 i think for this run, but b436-449 are the blocks that are always full so i guess the constant good runs are here, but you can get good runs elsewhere. It was the 5th time i made it to M10, all the previous M10 ended at Cougar. i usually go with Wand from I1 to I3 (i tried sword one time, good dmg but Claymore until I4^^; so no) then Launcher until the end, i get the Twin daggers at I4 (Spin move at I3) for barbarillipan and Bayari and M10 but didn't seem to work well on Banthers aka, aim at weak head, hit the non-weak crown instead:-?

[Raujinn]

The groups I tend to have do well when they actually get going, whether they spend a million years deciding roles and chain-abandoning or not. Generally m8-10 fails, some clears, the occasional m6-7 fail. All of these I am absolutely fine with.

160,000 miles until I can afford a finished Ideal Partizan. Gained around 300k so far.

[jiasu73]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/zbxkPTg.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX] usually get a clear like this in my usual organized random runs

[Poyonche]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/zbxkPTg.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX] usually get a clear like this in my usual organized random runs

Mind if I join you ? I never die in C-mode. :wacko:

[Vatallus]

How are you guys going that far ? Are you in the B436 or Something like dat ?

My runs never go past Mission 5. :'(

100%pug

I'm usually in B439 - B445. I've only had 1 M5 fail and everything else has been m9 or m10. I'm not too concerned about clears since I got my title already so not exactly interested in organized runs.

[Poyonche]

I just want the rifle camo.

And Ideal mechguns. :wacko:

[TaigaUC]

Did a few runs with 2-3 JP friends, got to M10 both times.
Both with the same amount of VR and both ended at Arms.

People keep screwing up the tripwires on M3 and M8.
And there's always an EN person who doesn't know that you can wait out M8 and take the teleporter.
Really gotta finish writing my guide.

[Vatallus]

First run today.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150814_114917_000_zpspdeddwhl.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

A win that wasn't down to the wire for once, and 11* partizan hype. :wacko:
Wanted to try knuckles and BHS for when bosses are stunned or unable to move due to attack choice but no dice.
Block 440 btw.

[Raujinn]

I've only ever seen one group do the M8 waiting tactic. This is regardless of the groups who cleared and those who failed (the one that waited it out went on to fail at that...)

[Mattykins]

I wish people wouldn't spam LAs when waiting for the teleporter. When I'm waiting in a group that has a lot of people dancing and being spastic, I see most folks come down, take one look, then just turn around and leave.

[jiasu73]

Mind if I join you ? I never die in C-mode. :wacko:

Yes as long as you are willing to be cooperative , you are very welcome. I just want to note although staying alive is good too, dps and being aggressive is much more important for cm

[Ce'Nedra]

Got my first CM clear today thanks to Tomia-chan~

Almost makes me not want to deal with pugs anymore lol.

[Asuka~]

Got my first CM clear today thanks to Tomia-chan~

Almost makes me not want to deal with pugs anymore lol.

Same here - thanks Tomia.

[milranduil]

First run today.

[SPOILER-BOX]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v241/Nuclear_Knight/pso20150814_114917_000_zpspdeddwhl.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

A win that wasn't down to the wire for once, and 11* partizan hype. :wacko:
Wanted to try knuckles and BHS for when bosses are stunned or unable to move due to attack choice but no dice.
Block 440 btw.

do not use partisan on vomos. partisan is bad for single target in cm.

[Melodys]

alright lets just play sometime on the weekend then. Can just set a time to meet up i guess im usually online during 20-24jst. Edit: Oh you can just find me on ranklings. You can find me on the rankings of 2 weeks ago under the Character name Sylvia/ ID ★Tomia★. Im rank 4 with the score of 13838 just add my account from there

Mind if I join you at 8pm-11:40pmish JST? I need to run DOs with a friend when they reset though so those are applicable start times for me. I have m10 clear title and use the standard wand/launcher/daggers at respective Ms.

[Vatallus]

do not use partisan on vomos. partisan is bad for single target in cm.

Bandersnatch isn't the top single damage in CM but it isn't bad. If I wanted to be bored to death I would keep spamming s.dive with daggers like a robot. Bandersnatch from a 11* partizan is more single dps than a blue dagger though. Assuming you are actually jumping before you do it so you can spam it oh so much faster.

There is a reason I don't listen. There is no "set in stone" way to finish Challenge Mode anymore. People can actually have fun now and still win. We don't all need to use 2 specific weapons anymore just to win something that was suppose to involve a players ability to 'adapt'. Not their ability to buy wands at I1. Launchers at I3. and Daggers at I4.

[Z-0]

Gekka with Blue Katana is even better than Symph Drive though, and it goes without saying that Heavenly Kite is even better with Blue DB. Dagger honestly sucks, I only use it for aerial combat since it's the only guaranteed thing that works from the shops.

Also the meta for CM is Paritzan/Katana for the most part now, with DB or Dagger depending on if you have Kite or not for aerial combat.

[TaigaUC]

Partisan for both Slide Shaker and Bandersnatch or just Slide Shaker?
Gekka > Sakura Endo, right?

Grats to first time clears.

[Z-0]

Partizan is just for Slide Shaker -- it covers more area than Cluster and does more DPS after the intial walks of spawns (since it's difficult to headshot after stuff moves). It's also more useful in a few areas over Cluster, such as south east in M7 (it's very easy to solo with Slide Shaker, not so much with anything else).

Katana is solely for Gekka spam, Hatou and Sakura End are both lower DPS, especially if you do jump cancel Gekkas. Even on the caters, Hatou cannot compare to Gekka since Hatou costs more PP, takes more time and requires you to be at a range, but close to get PP back. Not the best combo in a mode where it takes more than a PP bar to kill things.

After that, it's Symph Drive or Heavenly Kite for your aerial combat. Symph isn't used very often, but Kite is better than Gekka in some cases since it's a really strong PA in itself (examples would be Sorcs, Karts, Wolga, things like that).

And yes, while there is no set in stone way to clear Challenge, unless I'm playing with friends who all know what they're doing, I prefer to do it the most efficient way since it'll be the highest chance of clearing and getting those precious miles everyone is playing for.

Right now the setup I use for CM looks a little like this (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18niqv3CS1h8KxNu3GissfHTjOlaYuTY__y56NG0HILQ/edit#gid=1118695353).

[Mattykins]

Bandersnatch isn't the top single damage in CM but it isn't bad. If I wanted to be bored to death I would keep spamming s.dive with daggers like a robot. Bandersnatch from a 11* partizan is more single dps than a blue dagger though. Assuming you are actually jumping before you do it so you can spam it oh so much faster.

There is a reason I don't listen. There is no "set in stone" way to finish Challenge Mode anymore. People can actually have fun now and still win. We don't all need to use 2 specific weapons anymore just to win something that was suppose to involve a players ability to 'adapt'. Not their ability to buy wands at I1. Launchers at I3. and Daggers at I4.

Man, I wanted to post a refutation to this, but then I sorta realized how dumb this all is. It's not a matter of elitism or anything, it's fucking bad game design. They give you all of these choices, but like... don't balance the missions around them all. There shouldn't be a single end-all weapon for each area. TD shouldn't blow everything out of the water after I4. It's like a pop quiz Sega gives us, and success depends on the right answer. and that's bad.

[Squal_FFVIII]

I still haven't been able to clear M10 lol.

Though just a couple of days I was a CM noob now i'm pretty good, but I just can't find a MPA that can actually clear M10. I ran CM like 5 times today and we made it to CM10 everytime, but failed it everytime.

The biggest issue for me is that people simply just die too much at the end.

Also, should I switch to twin daggers in M10? I been using a spear all the time. In one of my runs I noticed that EVERYONE got a set of blue twin daggers I was like "??". I play with JP pugs all the time since none of my friends like to do CM so i'm stuck with JP pugs for the rest of the boost week.

A few questions about the "optimal weapons" in each mission.

Will I be considered a "scrub/noob" for not switching to the optimal weapon in each mission even though I am very good with the weapon I choose?

For example, in M3 I like to upgrade to the strongest sword instead of the wand/foie combo. Is this considered "bad" eventhough I am still pulling my own weight? Rising Edge/Nova Strike with gear just seems way better to me for rockbears/wolgas/(the shield monsters)/ and any big creatures or bosses.

Lastly are twin daggers mandatory at the end? I ask because of what I mention above and because if this is true then that sucks for me because I never really used twin daggers (don't like them as a weapon). I stick with the spear because I feel right at "home" with it since i'm very good with the base hu weapons.

So basically give ma set of twin daggers and i wouldn't know what to do with them.

[Mattykins]

It's easy. Pull out daggers, lock-on to an enemy, and spam Symphonic Drive. You fly around like a mosquito and they can barely hit you.

[jiasu73]

I still haven't been able to clear M10 lol.

Though just a couple of days I was a CM noob now i'm pretty good, but I just can't find a MPA that can actually clear M10. I ran CM like 5 times today and we made it to CM10 everytime, but failed it everytime.

The biggest issue for me is that people simply just die too much at the end.

Also, should I switch to twin daggers in M10? I been using a spear all the time. In one of my runs I noticed that EVERYONE got a set of blue twin daggers I was like "??". I play with JP pugs all the time since none of my friends like to do CM so i'm stuck with JP pugs for the rest of the boost week.

A few questions about the "optimal weapons" in each mission.

Will I be considered a "scrub/noob" for not switching to the optimal weapon in each mission even though I am very good with the weapon I choose?

For example, in M3 I like to upgrade to the strongest sword instead of the wand/foie combo. Is this considered "bad" eventhough I am still pulling my own weight? Rising Edge/Nova Strike with gear just seems way better to me for rockbears/wolgas/(the shield monsters)/ and any big creatures or bosses.

Lastly are twin daggers mandatory at the end? I ask because of what I mention above and because if this is true then that sucks for me because I never really used twin daggers (don't like them as a weapon). I stick with the spear because I feel right at "home" with it since i'm very good with the base hu weapons.

So basically give ma set of twin daggers and i wouldn't know what to do with them.

In 4-12 man you don't really "need" to use the most optimal weapons to actually clear since 4-12 is very lenient when it comes to just clearing.( hell ive cleared before in a jb only party)The only thing is that if you limit yourself to one weapon all the time it will slow down the party especially for the later parts of CM. CM isn't only about staying alive, being aggressive and using the right weapons for the right situation is also very important. Also no tds isn't mandatory in the end but you really want something to dps enemies in the air with for m10 ( volmos/ragne) td or tmg or db are the best options for that. Only td after interval 4 isn't very good as well, using only td will slow down your party

[TaigaUC]

Yeah, it is bad game design.
PSO2 has lots of choices for everything, but there's always incentive to use a few specific things. There isn't much incentive to try other stuff.
I assume most players just assume everything is balanced, but the reality is different.

How does Slide Upper compare to Gekka Zakuro spam?

[Z-0]

In M5, Slide Upper with the 9★ knuckles is better than Gekka with the 5★ katana, but Gekka is much better with an equivalent weapon (so Beats vs. Agito/Hurio/Blue, Gravel vs. Kenei, Gekka will win easily).

Also you might think you're better with a certain weapon type since it's your "main", or the one you think you're "better" with, but chances are you will be much more useful with what's considered the best weapon types for those missions, even if you've never used them before. It takes 5 seconds to learn how a weapon type works -- mess around with them.

[TaigaUC]

Yeah. I get a rough idea of how strong a weapon is, but once within a certain range, I'm not quite sure. Particularly if the weapon hits multiple times.

I updated the guide with Z-0's spreadsheet (thanks), various tips, and walkthroughs for Mission 8 and 9:
http://www.pso-world.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227403

[Xaelouse]

So where is that double saber only run

[Nitro Vordex]

I've been using knuckles. I can do damage, but I gotta get in first, which is the issue.