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Xaelouse
Oct 2, 2015, 04:33 AM
http://pso2.jp/players/update/20151014/07/

Besides the BR and GU stuff, some nice buffs for double saber, JB and Gunslash

GHNeko
Oct 2, 2015, 04:49 AM
>gunslash buffs

https://warosu.org/data/ck/img/0042/88/1362498968618.jpg

legit surprised they care enough.

i will gladly take JB buffs.
thank fucking god.

Squal_FFVIII
Oct 2, 2015, 04:54 AM
JB???

CoWorker
Oct 2, 2015, 04:55 AM
can anyone translate? its an image only...

final_attack
Oct 2, 2015, 04:56 AM
Translation help, please? o-o

Was about to make a thread for it o-o And this thread appeared lol

http://puu.sh/kvHeM/27189fa5c0.jpg

Hunter
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/kvHfl/5af7667b1b.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Sonic Arrow : JA Timing + Power based on gear increased?
Sacrifice Bite : Damage increase based on gear + motion (speed?) increased?

===================

Ranger
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/kvHfK/a04baddc00.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Weak Bullet : Dunno what ><
One Point : Damage Up + PP consumption reduced(?)
Sneak Shooter : faster JA timing (?) and something ><

Red texts on bottom : DiffuseShell .... ParallelSlider

===================

Fighter
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/kvHkF/d62c8e79c9.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

DS Weapon Action : something about JA timing (?) and Step cancel (?) ><
TD Quick March : Damage Up + cancel-able(? or cancel timing?) + Stun effect(?) ><
Surprise Dunk : Damage Up + added effect on hit(? Dunno what ><)
Deadly Archer : Dunno what >< Something about it hits?

Red texts on bottom : Orchestra ..... IllusionRave ..... AcroEffect

===================

Gunner
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/kvHmq/4cb6136e9f.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

High Time : As you know ..... faster power gain
Probably that reduced height loss when attacking mid-air (adjusted timing)
S-Roll : As you know ...... faster, seems like no difference on Invincibility time, like it's said on Gunner's thread.
SatAim : Like on Gunner thread, I think. Can change direction(?)
ShiftPeriod : Damage Up + Animation speed up + faster JA Timing(?)

Red texts on bottom : AerialShooting ..... DeadApproach ..... MessiahTime ...... ElderRebellion ...... ReverseTap ...... HeelStab

===================

Braver
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/kvHnc/edee6299ca.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Katana Damage Up based on gear as you know, I think.
Katana Combat, Rapid Shoot, Rapid Shoot Mastery max level (I think reduced to 5, where do I read that .... >< )
Rapid Shoot become 3 hits the moment it activated, I think, like they said on stream.
Something about Rapid Shoot Advance (" ... point ....." >< dunno the rest)
Step Attack using BulletBow faster animation speed and JA timing, I think
Something about Stances Critical and Stance Charge ><
TsukimiSazanka : PP reduction + faster animation + something about the hit ><
GekkaZakuro : PP reduction + Step-cancelable(?)
SakuraEnd : faster animation + JA timing + Charge Damage-Up (?)
TorentialArrow : dunno what ><
MillionStorm : DamageUp + PP reduction

===================

Bouncer
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/kvHoS/4ba3ebf8de.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Something about JetBootsEscape
JusticeCrow : DamageUp + PP reduction
KestrelRampage : DamageUp
StrikeGust : DamageUp
GranWave : dunno what >< Something about it hits.

===================

Weapon : Gunslash
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/kvHpN/440f90fd6e.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Something about Weapon Action Timing
Dunno what. Maybe Melee-Mode Gunslash JA Timing, and cancel-able
Dunno what, something about Gunslash's Step attack
SerpentAir : Faster animation + JA timing (?) + cancel-able
Regenschlag : Faster animation + JA timing (?)

Red texts on bottom : we will get AllSkillTree Reset pass, I think. Well, like always.

That's all I can get o-o Gonna help for other people's much better translation o-o

Perfect Chaos
Oct 2, 2015, 05:20 AM
Had to run into this thread right before going to sleep..
Only thing I'm bothering to read and translate for the time being is JB stuff.
Bouncer's first bullet point says, "Regarding the class skill 'Jet Boots Escape,' a change has been made so that when performing the derivation action of regular attacks, invincibility duration will occur."
4th bullet point says, "Regarding the Jet Boots PA 'Strike Gust,' power will be increased.
5th bullet point says, "Regarding the Jet Boots PA 'Gran Wave,' when landing a hit, rigor* duration will be reduced."

*I'm not quite familiar what 硬直 (rigor) refers to specifically in the context of this game, but if I were to guess, it would either be hitlag, or perhaps just a duration of time where you can't cancel out of?

jooozek
Oct 2, 2015, 05:23 AM
they are buffing satelitte aim? haha oh wow

final_attack
Oct 2, 2015, 05:25 AM
Well, the buff is just we can change direction mid-PA (based on Gunner's thread) ..... no mention about DamageUp at all o-o

Kondibon
Oct 2, 2015, 05:30 AM
Bouncer's first bullet point says, "Regarding the class skill 'Jet Boots Escape,' a change has been made so that when performing the derivation action of regular attacks, invincibility duration will occur."
http://i.imgur.com/V2ekhLb.gif

dekopong
Oct 2, 2015, 05:39 AM
Well, I'll go one by one. Feel free to go ahead or go for other class's translation. I'll translate from the top to the bottom.

Hunter:

1. Update for Sonic Arrow
Quicker JA timing, adjustment to the timing you start to fall. And more gear increase when you hit an enemy.

2. Update for Sacrifice Bite
Increased damage and gear gain. Quicker PA motion(not entirely but partly).

Achelousaurus
Oct 2, 2015, 05:42 AM
http://i.imgur.com/V2ekhLb.gif
My thoughts exactly.
Been thinking I should use boots more often, now I got even more of a reason to do so.


TorentialArrow : dunno what ><
I hope the retarded delay between using and hitting is removed or reduced to next nothing.
If not for this delay it's a very good mobbing pa, but with the pa it frequently misses.
Kinda sad how so very many things in the game are already almost good but are screwed up for no real reason.

Anyway, this sounds very, very nice.
Sakura Endo is getting a speed AND dmg boost XD. And finally a pp cost reduction for Million Storm. The real problem has always been the high upfront pp cost and even if that was partially alleviated already, not enough to make it viable considering usually you kill 2-3 enemies and then have to reposition to get into range for more enemies and with a high initial pp cost this eats up your pp far too fast.

Oh and yeah, reducing the rigor from gran Wave is really good. It feels a bit clunky at the moment cause of this and can get risky.

HentaiLolicon
Oct 2, 2015, 05:44 AM
Weak bullet: something about making it easier to aim :|

dekopong
Oct 2, 2015, 05:45 AM
Ranger:

1. Weak Bullet
Make it easier to hit(probably maybe faster speed for it's projectile).
Edit: Maybe it is the accuracy itself. The original Japanese sentence just says, "Make it easier to hit the target."

2. One Point
Damage up and reduced pp consumption.
3. Sneak Shooter
Quicker JA timing and faster bullet.

They are planning to update Diffuse Shell and Parallel Slider later on.

dekopong
Oct 2, 2015, 05:53 AM
Fighter:

1. Kamaitachi wind attack
Quicker JA and cancel timing.
2. Quick March
More damage and quicker cancel timing. After the update all of its hits have stun effect.
3. Surprise Dunk
More damage. The reaction upon your hit against an enemy is relieved(less "hit stop") and after the hit, the enemy is launched a bit from the ground. (Sorry for the broken English.)
4. Deadly Archer
Adjustment to the interval between each hit( I'm not sure how this affect the PA).

Adjustment to Orchestra, IllusionRave, and AcroEffect later on.

Perfect Chaos
Oct 2, 2015, 05:54 AM
I hope the retarded delay between using and hitting is removed or reduced to next nothing.
If not for this delay it's a very good mobbing pa, but with the pa it frequently misses.Since my friend plays Braver, I took a closer look at the Braver stuff, too. Torrential Arrow is only getting an AoE range buff, sadly. Braver is getting a bunch of miscellaneous adjustments to its PAs that I don't want to go into detail right now since I really should get some sleep... >_<
I am especially glad that the Stance Critical skills are being moved around so that it's no longer a prerequisite for the Stance Charge skills, since all other skill trees got that treatment at episode 3's debut's tree change except for Braver.

dekopong
Oct 2, 2015, 06:01 AM
Gunner:

1. High Time
Quicker damage bonus gain(the max doesn't change).
2. Plain Attack
Adjustment to the timing you start to fall.
3. S-roll
Shorter motion for the 1st and 2nd flip. The duration of invincible time is the same.
4. Satellite Aim
You can change your direction upon fire.
5. Shift Period
Partly faster PA motion and increased damage. Quicker JA timing and adjustment to the timing you start to fall.

Adjustment to the following PAs are informed later. AerialShooting ..... DeadApproach ..... MessiahTime ...... ElderRebellion ...... ReverseTap ...... HeelStab.

P.S. Sorry, Ranger and Fighter PAs are the same description. It should be "informed later" not "adjusted later".

SteelMaverick
Oct 2, 2015, 06:17 AM
Gonna list the ones which aren't clear from final_attack's post.

Ranger

Weak Bullet is more accurate, easier to land.

Sneak Shooter has faster Just Attack timings, bullet speed increased.

Fighter

Double Sabre weapon action (Kamaitachi) has faster Just Attack and cancel timings.

Quick March has increased damage, earlier cancel timing. Changed to stun enemies on all hits as opposed to a launch.

Surprise Dunk has increased damage, aerial hit motion delay decreased, changed to a small launch instead of stun. (A huge nerf.)

Deadly Archer hit interval adjusted. (Nothing specific, perhaps the attack occurs faster as a whole.)

Braver

Rapid Shoot Advance requires less points to unlock.

Average/Weak Stance charge position on the skill tree has been changed, no need to grab critical skills to acquire them.

Tsukimi Sazanka loses the delay before the strike, ground usage motion sped up.

Torrential Arrow has increased AoE.

dekopong
Oct 2, 2015, 06:20 AM
Braver:

1. Katana Gear
Bonus to damage depending on gear gauge.
2. Katana Combat, Rapid Shoot, Rapid Shoot Mastery
Less skill points to max out the skill(the ability is adjusted proportionally to fit the skill level)
3. Rapid Shoot
From the start of the skill you can fire triple arrows(the skill's effect kick in immediately).
4. Rapid Shoot Advance
Less skill points are required to get the skill(not the max of the skill itself, but the skill points you need before you get lv1 of R Shoot Advance).
5. Step Attack of Bows
Quicker motion and timing for JA.
6. Average Stance Critical and Weak Stance Critical
Changing their position in the skill tree and make it easier to learn Average Stance Charge and Weak Stance Charge.
7. Tsukimi Sazanka
Less reaction time upon each hit(less "hit stop"). Less pp consumption. Quicker motion when used on ground.
8. Gekka Zakuro
Less pp consumption. Can be canceled by weapon action or step when used on ground.
9. Sakura End
Quickening the entire motion and quicker JA timing. Increased damage to non-charged use.
10. TorentialArrow
Wider attack scope(range? what's the proper word for "範囲” in this context?). Edit: It was AoE. Thanks.
11. Million Storm
Increased damage and less pp consumption.

dekopong
Oct 2, 2015, 06:24 AM
Bouncer:

1. Jet Boots Escape
Invincible time when using the "shift action" of plain attacks.("派生" of plain attacks. not knowing well about Jet Boots _(:3」∠)_) Edit: "派生">"derivation action"
2. Justice Crow
Damage up and pp reduction.
3. Kestrel Rampage
Increased damage.
4. Strike Gust
Damage up.
5. Gran Wave
Less reaction time upon each hit(less "hit stop").

dekopong
Oct 2, 2015, 06:32 AM
Gunslash:

1. Weapon/Shift Action
Quicker motion, and adjustment to the timing you start to fall.
2. Plain Attack (Striking)
Quicker JA and cancel timing.
3. Step Attack
Less reaction time upon the hit(less "hit stop").
4. Serpent Air
Quicker JA and cancel timing. Quicker motion.
5. Regenschlag
Quicker motion and JA timing.

The last red sentence is about skill reset pass.

It was great help, thank you final_attack. Because of my limited English skill, translating from 0 would have been a tough work.

isCasted
Oct 2, 2015, 06:33 AM
All I can say is...

YES. To all of it.

A lot of these cases are more about convenience and comfort than actual balance, and better control is always good.

Unnamed Player
Oct 2, 2015, 06:58 AM
1. Weak Bullet
Make it easier to hit(probably faster speed for it's projectile).This doesn't make any sense, none of the enemies in this game are fast enough to dodge a weak bullet.

Rakurai
Oct 2, 2015, 07:05 AM
It would be nice if they made it so it just automatically marks the spot you have targeted if you're not in aiming mode.

Selphea
Oct 2, 2015, 07:09 AM
It roughly translates to accuracy, I'm guessing it's talking about the natural scatter of ranged attacks e.g. when you fire One Point and the bullets spray all over the place at long range.

dekopong
Oct 2, 2015, 07:12 AM
This doesn't make any sense, none of the enemies in this game are fast enough to dodge a weak bullet.

Shooting from a distance, you can miss your weak bullet even when the enemy moves only a bit(especially when you lock on the enemy.).

Though, they are just saying "easier to hit", so the speed of the bullet might not be what SEGA is intending to update.

Edit: Edited the translation of ranger.

HentaiLolicon
Oct 2, 2015, 07:40 AM
^ for betch like Zeshrayda (on it's back), i guess they will make WB really land on aimed spot instead of weird place

Superia
Oct 2, 2015, 07:45 AM
^ for betch like Zeshrayda (on it's back), i guess they will make WB really land on aimed spot instead of weird place

I still think that has to do with the rifle (independent of visible model) clipping through his body. Like, your basic attacks and certain PAs will do the same thing.

Demon-
Oct 2, 2015, 07:51 AM
One Point and Sneak Shooter woot I still use those.

final_attack
Oct 2, 2015, 07:54 AM
All right, thanks for the translations !!! XD

Unnamed Player
Oct 2, 2015, 08:15 AM
So basically One Point is going to do more dmg than Infinite Fire for less than half the PP.

Kondibon
Oct 2, 2015, 08:37 AM
So basically One Point is going to do more dmg than Infinite Fire for less than half the PP.Don't forget, IF has a longer animation and back-loaded damage too. :wacko:

TaigaUC
Oct 2, 2015, 08:42 AM
I'm waiting for
Weak Bullet:
Make people actually use it to help the multi instead of for their own single Chain Trigger once every 5 minutes.

When I initially glanced at the Weak Bullet change, the first thing I thought was "Weak Bullet: removed from the game". Seriously.
One can always hope~

Vatallus
Oct 2, 2015, 09:07 AM
I'm waiting for
Weak Bullet:
Make people actually use it to help the multi instead of for their own single Chain Trigger once every 5 minutes.

When I initially glanced at the Weak Bullet change, the first thing I thought was "Weak Bullet: removed from the game". Seriously.
One can always hope~

Don't forget the rangers that use WB where they plan to SC and not where the other 11 people can hit the boss.

TaigaUC
Oct 2, 2015, 10:34 AM
I do that when I can solo the boss quickly, and hope people go do something else.
Doesn't work that way though. Everyone wants a piece of the boss.

...Boss?

BOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!

ungh!

Poyonche
Oct 2, 2015, 10:43 AM
I guess TD3 is the best example for that.

"Dark Raaaaagne !? Ok everyone abandon all the Goldrahdas !"

TaigaUC
Oct 2, 2015, 10:44 AM
Exactly. I don't need 11 people humping Ragne (or other bosses) when I can kill him in one shot.
And I especially don't need a posse of AIS humping the same single boss instead of defending the towers.

Anyway, the 14th can't come soon enough. I can't wait to mess around with my new TMGs without still feeling somewhat gimped.

Poyonche
Oct 2, 2015, 10:46 AM
Oh it is on 14th ? :(

I expected next week but now that you tell it, I remember it being mid-october, and not early.

Why...

This will be perfect, this + Story quest.

Story quest where we will finally know more about Persona (On a picture Persona is saying : "Blablabla Dark Falz [Persona] blablabla [Profound Darkness]" and fight that Dark [SPOILER]Matoi.

Might do a thread asking for people opinions and what they are expecting.[/SPOILER-BOX]

Cyber Meteor
Oct 2, 2015, 10:47 AM
I still think that has to do with the rifle (independent of visible model) clipping through his body. Like, your basic attacks and certain PAs will do the same thing.

I don't know if the model has anything to do with it, but i noticed that WB on Zesh core was dependant on whether you were in front (side of the head) or rear (side of body/arm/legs). WB shot at front side -> WB on core; WB shot at rear-> WB gets on the back even if the core is hit:-?

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 2, 2015, 11:25 AM
Only took them two years to actually address sakura end's shitty JA window, but who knows; they may only make it just as fast as step canceling or something :wacko:. I'm okay with the damage buffs, and apparently I'll have 3 more points free in the braver tree than I originally thought.

Vatallus
Oct 2, 2015, 11:31 AM
I do that when I can solo the boss quickly, and hope people go do something else.
Doesn't work that way though. Everyone wants a piece of the boss.

...Boss?

BOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!

ungh!

The most problem I've had with weak bullets from rangers was probably knight gear and cougar. They will wb the head, aim their sc, then miss.

Also noticing rangers on ship 9 are wbing Apos/Siorg body instead of weakpoint now. Same thing with Bayari.. wb on body instead of head.

wbing Gal Gryphon head and nuking it asap because it doesn't actually help us get more runs with the average mpa and just means we don't get l.grinder drops now.

Short version is I hate people.

Kondibon
Oct 2, 2015, 11:45 AM
Are we complaining about WB's aiming? I got two words. Angel's Head.

orz.

EDIT: actually just falz angel in general. So, more than two words.

Skornedemon
Oct 2, 2015, 11:51 AM
Dual Blade PAs getting buffs.... Oh boy. They will officially be as OP as bravers in EP2

Sayara
Oct 2, 2015, 11:58 AM
Are we complaining about WB's aiming? I got two words. Angel's Head.

orz.

EDIT: actually just falz angel in general. So, more than two words.

You can never EVER get the weakspot hit with Angel its awful.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 2, 2015, 12:07 PM
Dual Blade PAs getting buffs.... Oh boy. They will officially be as OP as bravers in EP2

Ha no. They'd have to buff the hell out of dispersion shrike for that to happen.

Blades as is are arguably inferior to katanas outside of TCPBF gimmick.

Selphea
Oct 2, 2015, 12:24 PM
Kestrel and Justice Crow were both pretty weak. The buffs shouldn't change the DB meta too much. Dove is just too high up there to be easily shaken by lower tier PAs.

The JB buffs are the ones I'm most interested in. Less hitstop = marginal DPS increase on Gran Wave, and Strike Gust will hopefully get buffed to be as good as Sakura End. If it makes JB in CM better I'm happy enough.

Surprise Dunk, Illusion Rave, Orchestra and Acro Effect are yays, I happen to use all of them.

I'm curious about what they'll do with Elder Rebellion but TBH nothing's going to beat End Attract in its current form.

Bullet Bow and Gunslash are kinda sad, I was hoping for more.

Also I compiled the changes on my blog: http://www.fulldive.nu/2015/10/03/pso2-balance-changes-coming-october-14th/

LonelyGaruga
Oct 2, 2015, 12:32 PM
Heads up, Quick March will cause stun as in the SE, not hitstun. Unless that's the same thing?

TwistedShaerk
Oct 2, 2015, 12:39 PM
Heads up, Quick March will cause stun as in the SE, not hitstun. Unless that's the same thing?

I think in the last update to Quick March they added stun to the PA, this change I think is so that every hit causes it. I never really tried Quick March after that one update though so my memory is a little hazy about the details.

And yeah pretty sure it's the SE.

un1t27
Oct 2, 2015, 12:47 PM
Ha no. They'd have to buff the hell out of dispersion shrike for that to happen.

Blades as is are arguably inferior to katanas outside of TCPBF gimmick.

http://i.imgur.com/CJLsXKo.png

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 2, 2015, 01:04 PM
http://i.imgur.com/CJLsXKo.png

Maybe you should use letters, and words.

Maenara
Oct 2, 2015, 02:12 PM
Weapon : Gunslash
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/kvHpN/440f90fd6e.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Something about Weapon Action Timing
Dunno what. Maybe Melee-Mode Gunslash JA Timing, and cancel-able
Dunno what, something about Gunslash's Step attack
SerpentAir : Faster animation + JA timing (?) + cancel-able
Regenschlag : Faster animation + JA timing (?)

Red texts on bottom : we will get AllSkillTree Reset pass, I think. Well, like always.

That's all I can get o-o Gonna help for other people's much better translation o-o

Ahahaha, no mention of them fixing the blatantly bugged Kreisenschlag?

Or maybe they know about it and don't want to admit they didn't notice for an entire year. Nevertheless, I'm happy to see Sega caring enough about the 'slash, even if these changes are kind of underwhelming. Maybe they'll fix Regenschlag while they're at it. If your target moves even slightly, the PA ends instantly, it doesn't even try to keep going.

Edit: I love how they're not buffing Starling Fall. Maybe they realize it's a terrible PA that combos into nothing.

TaigaUC
Oct 2, 2015, 02:22 PM
The stun was added to Quick March last time they buffed those PAs.
Never seen it in action though. I very rarely use that PA, even though I like flip kicks.
It just feels too slow compared to other stuff.

Owlkaiser
Oct 2, 2015, 02:28 PM
JB buff ( yay ! ) Katana buff ( yay! ) skill relax ( yay!) I wonder which class will become meta about this upgrade =w=

btw: Did Sega forget about Te and Fo? ;w;
Other classes have a lot of major upgrade meanwhile Fo/Te have nothing ;w;

LonelyGaruga
Oct 2, 2015, 02:30 PM
Fo/Te and Te/Br are already top classes so it's OK.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 2, 2015, 02:53 PM
Other classes have a lot of major upgrade meanwhile Fo/Te have nothing ;w;

Fo/Te doesn't need help.

GHNeko
Oct 2, 2015, 03:49 PM
Fo and Te need less multipliers and more variety.

I'd love to see status boost skills and ignition skills buffed a lot.

Like...a lot.

And A lot more love for reverse field.

Vatallus
Oct 2, 2015, 03:57 PM
JB buff ( yay ! ) Katana buff ( yay! ) skill relax ( yay!) I wonder which class will become meta about this upgrade =w=

btw: Did Sega forget about Te and Fo? ;w;
Other classes have a lot of major upgrade meanwhile Fo/Te have nothing ;w;

Hahahahaha.... damn. I don't miss reading this stuff at all when I left...

I'm sorry for your loss.

Zorak000
Oct 2, 2015, 03:59 PM
I think in the last update to Quick March they added stun to the PA, this change I think is so that every hit causes it. I never really tried Quick March after that one update though so my memory is a little hazy about the details.

And yeah pretty sure it's the SE.

reminder: stun counts as a status effect for skills like Chase Advance and Chase Bind (and bind counts for Chase Advance) and Extreme Quest "kill X with while it has a status effect on it" floors

Superia
Oct 2, 2015, 03:59 PM
Fo and Te need less multipliers and more variety.

I'd love to see status boost skills and ignition skills buffed a lot.

Like...a lot.

And A lot more love for reverse field.

I feel like it would be cool if status effect builds (e.g. Te/Fi) were viable.

LonelyGaruga
Oct 2, 2015, 04:08 PM
reminder: stun counts as a status effect for skills like Chase Advance and Chase Bind (and bind counts for Chase Advance) and Extreme Quest "kill X with while it has a status effect on it" floors

I don't see why you should use Quick March over other PAs like Quake Howling if it was stun you wanted.

Mattykins
Oct 2, 2015, 04:10 PM
Wat? Weakbullet isn't hard to aim. Most RAs are just fucking terrible.

Poyonche
Oct 2, 2015, 04:11 PM
Fo and Te need less multipliers and more variety.

I'd love to see status boost skills and ignition skills buffed a lot.

Like...a lot.

And A lot more love for reverse field.

I want Freeze Ignition to be 1500% and Poison Ignition 2000%. :wacko:

And reverse field castable every 3 minutes.

And Kreisenchlag (derp) to be fixed.

Xaelouse
Oct 2, 2015, 04:12 PM
A lot of this stuff is minor. They're saving any drastic changes for ep4

Also they keep fixing sword but not wired lance for some reason. Wired Lance has been underwhelming lately, do they know? It's bad enough their newest PA is one of the worst in the game.

Strike Gust damage buff is kinda significant at least, since it's JB's second main damage source and primary gear booster (and if it wasn't to you, it will be now)

Thank you to the people that help translate.

Perfect Chaos
Oct 2, 2015, 05:10 PM
Same thing with Bayari.. wb on body instead of head.I think that Rangers should analyze the MPA class composition to determine where to put their Weak Bullet. For Bayari's case, if there are a lot of Forces (and other Rangers) around, then WB on the head is vastly superior to being on the body, since Il-Barta will make the boss last less than 10 seconds.

Achelousaurus
Oct 2, 2015, 05:13 PM
Since my friend plays Braver, I took a closer look at the Braver stuff, too. Torrential Arrow is only getting an AoE range buff, sadly. Braver is getting a bunch of miscellaneous adjustments to its PAs that I don't want to go into detail right now since I really should get some sleep... >_<
I am especially glad that the Stance Critical skills are being moved around so that it's no longer a prerequisite for the Stance Charge skills, since all other skill trees got that treatment at episode 3's debut's tree change except for Braver.
I'd rather have additional stance buffs lol
Yeah, not happening and I'm not complaining.
I already have 2 braver trees and the only problem was 5 points too few for bow not maxing Rapid Shoot itself, which isn't that important. I mostly play katana braver and for that I have just enough points to max everything I want or even a point or two over, so I don't even know what to do with this, lol.
But of course it's a really big deal to everyone playing hybrid braver, especially freemium people.


Fo and Te need less multipliers and more variety.

I'd love to see status boost skills and ignition skills buffed a lot.

Like...a lot.

And A lot more love for reverse field.
Amen.
And a viable build to use all elements on the enemies and bosses weak to them without losing massive damage would be really nice as well.
Specializing in only a few elements is boring.

And yeah, with Ep4 being announced for next year it feels even more than usual like playing now is sorta pointless.

Searaphim
Oct 2, 2015, 05:16 PM
Wat? Weakbullet isn't hard to aim. Most RAs are just fucking terrible.

Except that it's not exactly a problem of RAs being bad at aiming. Take shooting on a zeshrayda's core when it's on its back for example. Falz Angel is another terrible one. The WB doesn't always appear where its supposed to have hit.

GHNeko
Oct 2, 2015, 05:22 PM
For the longest time I used to believe that you actually couldnt WB Angel's core.

Then I happened to get it on non-TPS lock on by chance...once...and that was almost half a year ago.

Never happened since.

Kondibon
Oct 2, 2015, 05:27 PM
I'm gonna be real here though. None of this actually has to do with WB, a lot of hit boxes on enemies are just wonky, remember how hard it used to be (and how hard it sill is) to hit mechs in their weakspot, despite it being a huge blue ball?. Which makes me wonder why they're diong anything to WB specifically. I mean, I won't complain about it being more reliable at long range, but the problems we've been talking about aren't limited to WB.

Achelousaurus
Oct 2, 2015, 05:32 PM
Yeah, would be nice if we could just lock on to ALL weak points of ALL enemies and bosses.
It's really silly that we can't. It's not like this make the game noticeably easier (would need real 1 hit kill hax for that) but it certainly make it a lot more convenient.

Vatallus
Oct 2, 2015, 05:42 PM
I always felt that at least Ranger should have the ability to lock onto all enemy weakpoints. If you play the class enough you'll figure out where to weak bullet to make them actually hit where you want. Apos core as an example when its laying on the ground. I still see Rangers screw up Magatsu weak bullets.

Though to reinforce what GHNeko said... managed to hit angel's core once. never again.

Perfect Chaos
Oct 2, 2015, 05:47 PM
And a viable build to use all elements on the enemies and bosses weak to them without losing massive damage would be really nice as well.
Specializing in only a few elements is boring.Dedicated Forces buy multiple skill trees to cover every element, and that's making Sega money, so I doubt they'll change it so that that becomes unnecessary for optimal Force play.
It's probably not a coincidence that they keep doing things to make Forces stronger, despite it already being top tier, like with additional compound techniques that get better and better. Forces are underplayed compared to other classes, yet it yields them money from skill tree (and sub-palette expansion) purchases, so Forces being top tier actually benefits SEGA.

infiniteeverlasting
Oct 2, 2015, 05:48 PM
i think the devs would greatly help hunters if we got a skill that gives us a JA bubble after jumping.


Edit: but this power creep tho....

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 2, 2015, 05:53 PM
Edit: but this power creep tho....

We need more things to in ult quests besides farm stones/anga to justify the damage geared players can do.

Vatallus
Oct 2, 2015, 06:03 PM
Here's to hoping Double and the boss after Double won't explode in minutes against your average pug mpa.... Oh wait. It would probably get nerfed like Magatsu's HP was.

rashoood
Oct 2, 2015, 06:12 PM
i am liking this!! would have loved more damage to guren PA too but oh well :P Sakura made faster is a huge plus.

GoldenFalcon
Oct 2, 2015, 06:27 PM
I want Freeze Ignition to be 1500% and Poison Ignition 2000%. :wacko:

Poison Ignition already has 3000 power notation, similar to a level 10 Namegid with no bonuses. Although, crafted level 15 Namegid with dark masteries and element conversion and charge advance gets an effective power notation of ~9000...

Freeze Ignition can get a power notation of 4000, but it's the same story as the last hit of Ilbarta.

However, Ignition skills really shine with Innocent Appearance...

Mattykins
Oct 2, 2015, 06:30 PM
Here's to hoping Double and the boss after Double won't explode in minutes against your average pug mpa.... Oh wait. It would probably get nerfed like Magatsu's HP was.

I think Bumped says Double is gonna resist Weak Bullet, somehow.

GHNeko
Oct 2, 2015, 06:31 PM
IA applies to Ignition skills????

Also Sega should just bring back Del Lilies already

LonelyGaruga
Oct 2, 2015, 06:34 PM
i think the devs would greatly help hunters if we got a skill that gives us a JA bubble after jumping.

Now that sounds like a good Bouncer skill.


IA applies to Ignition skills????

Yeah, Freeze/Poison Ignition are uncharged techs for damage purposes.

Perfect Chaos
Oct 2, 2015, 06:38 PM
Ignition skills are considered non-charged techs.

EDIT: Ninja'd...

EDIT2: Oh man. I would love it if Bouncer gets that skill. Since they are aerial combat based, it's would only make sense that BO would get it instead of any other class.

Nitro Vordex
Oct 2, 2015, 06:40 PM
So, ilzan Elysion and ignition is guud?

Perfect Chaos
Oct 2, 2015, 06:44 PM
If Ignition skills didn't cost so many skill points, I may actually consider using it. I think it's the biggest downside to those skills. Like maybe combine both of Freeze Ignition's skills and make it 5 points to max. 5 points for Poison Ignition, too, or something.

And since this news was broken out to GHNeko, do I sense him making a new crazy build around this? LOL

yoshiblue
Oct 2, 2015, 06:48 PM
Using Rose Weapons (Knight Gear) sounds pretty fun.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 2, 2015, 06:54 PM
i am liking this!! would have loved more damage to guren PA too but oh well :P Sakura made faster is a huge plus.

I'm pretty sure everyone already knew guren wasn't getting a buff. I woulda've preferred hatou, but hey, if it's sakura, maybe katana bravers would be less ass in situations like magatsu/any other boss that demands precision while being stationary + up close and personal in a small area (or any boss that proves to be a general pain in the arse to maintain ideal hatou position against).

Also can't blame them for buffing sakura really. Its precision niche was its only strength compared to guren, which currently sports higher dps, mobility, and PP : damage than sakura.

GHNeko
Oct 2, 2015, 07:16 PM
If Ignition skills didn't cost so many skill points, I may actually consider using it. I think it's the biggest downside to those skills. Like maybe combine both of Freeze Ignition's skills and make it 5 points to max. 5 points for Poison Ignition, too, or something.

And since this news was broken out to GHNeko, do I sense him making a new crazy build around this? LOL

No.

...

Maybe..

Possibly. V:

yoshiblue
Oct 2, 2015, 07:19 PM
I wonder if Partner machines will use it? Would be tempted to make Spock use it if they do.

Superia
Oct 2, 2015, 08:02 PM
I always felt that at least Ranger should have the ability to lock onto all enemy weakpoints. If you play the class enough you'll figure out where to weak bullet to make them actually hit where you want. Apos core as an example when its laying on the ground. I still see Rangers screw up Magatsu weak bullets.

Though to reinforce what GHNeko said... managed to hit angel's core once. never again.

I agree that ranged classes (or at least Ranger) should probably be able to lock-on to all weakpoints. At the same time, the current system for switching targets with lock-on is absolutely unacceptable, and it would probably get worse if there were more things to lock-on to. As for Angel, they need to change him rather than change lock-on/aiming/WB. Unlike DS Persona where you can still hit his head with some skill, Angel just has buggy hitboxes that prevent it from working consistently.

GoldenFalcon
Oct 2, 2015, 08:36 PM
Someone just needs to test if Elemental Conversion affects the Ignition skills

Maenara
Oct 2, 2015, 08:40 PM
Yeah, would be nice if we could just lock on to ALL weak points of ALL enemies and bosses.
It's really silly that we can't. It's not like this make the game noticeably easier (would need real 1 hit kill hax for that) but it certainly make it a lot more convenient.

Uuuuhhh, Rockbear became ten times easier to kill when it became possible to essentially aimbot his face.

Kondibon
Oct 2, 2015, 08:48 PM
I dunno about auto targeting every weak point, but it would be nice if bosses didn't have target points on like all of their joints. >_> Seriously, why would I ever want to target Vol's neck??

yoshiblue
Oct 2, 2015, 08:53 PM
I dunno about auto targeting every weak point, but it would be nice if bosses didn't have target points on like all of their joints. >_> Seriously, why would I ever want to target Vol's neck??

If bleed became a thing, would ideally be very fatal.
"It would be most effective if you would cut the carotid artery just under the left ear."

Bellion
Oct 2, 2015, 10:03 PM
How about attacking a vital area and breaking it automatically kills a boss instead? :wacko:

yoshiblue
Oct 2, 2015, 10:35 PM
No hitting below the belt, yo.

Squal_FFVIII
Oct 2, 2015, 11:33 PM
I still wanna know what "JB" stands for :(

and why no FO buffs sega? :O

KazukiQZ
Oct 3, 2015, 12:05 AM
^JB = Jet Boots

Mattykins
Oct 3, 2015, 12:06 AM
I still wanna know what "JB" stands for :(

and why no FO buffs sega? :O

Dude, have you seen Force lately?

Also, JB is Jet Boots.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 3, 2015, 12:15 AM
I still wanna know what "JB" stands for :(

and why no FO buffs sega? :O

Hahaha ah... force buffs...:lol:

Z-0
Oct 3, 2015, 12:15 AM
Dude, have you seen Force lately?
Yeah, they really need a buff IMO.

#buffFO

Maenara
Oct 3, 2015, 12:25 AM
Force needs a restructuring. It has the most boring skill tree in the game. They need to buff Normal Tech Advance, 5 SP for +50% damage, and nerf Innocent Appearance to something like +30%. Photon Flare needs to be better, cost less SP, have more support. There needs to be far more utility and choice. And I don't mean 'fire or ice?'.

Overall, though, it should end up at the same level of power it has now.

D-Inferno
Oct 3, 2015, 12:29 AM
Fo tree doesn't need to be changed, except perhaps Element Conversion (fuck making a rainbow of 13*). Certain techs just need to be less OP (Foie, Gifoie, Rafoie, Ilbarta, ect)

Maenara
Oct 3, 2015, 12:32 AM
Fo tree doesn't need to be changed, except perhaps Element Conversion (fuck making a rainbow of 13*). Certain techs just need to be less OP (Foie, Gifoie, Rafoie, Ilbarta, ect)

You completely missed the entire point of my post.

cheapgunner
Oct 3, 2015, 12:40 AM
Would be nice for force to have a skill that gives HP/PP back when you put status on enemies. But then again this games been reduced to "press Attack button repeatedly till enemies are no more* and then collect loot. Repeat.

*Or give all techs multi-hitbox capacity and more splash. :)

LonelyGaruga
Oct 3, 2015, 12:45 AM
You completely missed the entire point of my post.

Which was that you found Force's skill tree boring. Finding something boring doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

Mesarthim
Oct 3, 2015, 12:47 AM
Fo tree doesn't need to be changed, except perhaps Element Conversion (fuck making a rainbow of 13*). Certain techs just need to be less OP (Foie, Gifoie, Rafoie, Ilbarta, ect)

I made a rainbow (minus wind), so can you. I don't see what the issue is with those techs either. In that regard they are effective because of Flame S charge and having blazing recipes being the recipe of choice for most of them. Ilbarta was already nerfed in Episode 3, you want it being nerfed again?

EvilMag
Oct 3, 2015, 12:49 AM
FOs need buffs. Just like Sheik and Rosalina need buffs as well!

Maenara
Oct 3, 2015, 12:49 AM
Which was that you found Force's skill tree boring. Finding something boring doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

It does when this is a video game.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 3, 2015, 01:14 AM
It does when this is a video game.

Hu subclass skill tree would like to have a word with you. Only real choice in that is 'do you want automate, or iron will?'.

LonelyGaruga
Oct 3, 2015, 01:16 AM
You have a subjective problem with the game and want a change that would affect all the players so that it would better suit your preferences.

This is the same thing as saying your opinion on how the game should be is the only one that matters.

Maenara
Oct 3, 2015, 01:19 AM
Hu subclass skill tree would like to have a word with you. Only real choice in that is 'do you want automate, or iron will?'.

At least HU has the choice of BEING a subclass. Force offers nothing to anything except technique damage, and in fact, Force is the only class that offers damage bonuses of only a single type. Force offers no benefit to being subclassed, except benefits that are far outweighed by maining Force, regardless of which class you choose as your other.


You have a subjective problem with the game and want a change that would affect all the players so that it would better suit your preferences.

This is the same thing as saying your opinion on how the game should be is the only one that matters.

Are you kidding? I know you're absurdly defensive of things you actually use in-game, but can you really be this jaded?

Vatallus
Oct 3, 2015, 02:02 AM
I do find Force rather boring to play. It feels like I'm going around nuking things 24/7 with little to no effort. Then again this game seems to only care about damage. I don't even see ice tree Forces in Ult Nab anymore perma freezing all the mobs.

Though that is just my opinion and I am sure people can say the same about other classes that they find dull. Just be careful where you say things though. You don't want to tell a 24/7 Force player that force is dull and doesn't take much effort or they might give you an essay on why the class you main takes no effort or skill. True story.

KazukiQZ
Oct 3, 2015, 02:25 AM
Yeah, same as me finding Sat Aim all day as GURA boring. People have their preference.

Lets see if the Gu buffs will change my opinion though.

LonelyGaruga
Oct 3, 2015, 02:59 AM
Are you kidding? I know you're absurdly defensive of things you actually use in-game, but can you really be this jaded?

The short version: You just suggested straight up buffs to Force and nerfed two unrelated classes while claiming Force's power level would remain the same. That's just fail.

The long version: [SPOILER-BOX]You suggested nerfing Innocent Appearance, which affects every class that uses techs, in an attempt to adjust only one of those classes. In a manner that straight up buffs its uncharged tech damage. In adjusting Force, you would have nerfed useful aspects of Techer and Bouncer gameplay for no reason, with no compensation, without even noticing, and given the class you were trying to restructure without adjusting its power level undeniably stronger uncharged techs. All because you thought it would make Force less boring.

And you know what? All it would accomplish skill tree-wise is that people would grab it if their elements had useful uncharged techs and skip it otherwise. In other words, such a change is a dismal failure to accomplish what was intended. It doesn't improve skill tree variety. It doesn't give any meaningful choice. It doesn't keep Force's power level stable. And best of all, you manage to pointlessly nerf two other classes in the process, and any future tech using classes. All because the only class that specializes specifically in tech damage has a boring skill tree.

Let's get this out of the way. This is the "problem" with Force. It's designed to be boring, it only has one attack type available to it! Techer and Bouncer both specialize in striking and tech damage, whereas Force solely wields techs. When Force was bottom tier at the beginning of EP2, what fixed it wasn't adding utility. It was more damage. When EP3 hit, what did composite techs add? More damage. Force is a damage dealing class. It's supposed to be focused on that! That's what makes it good! Can Force do other things? Sure, that's what techs are for. It has Zondeel, the ability to buff and heal, and the ability to inflict SEs reliably. Force doesn't need gimmicky adjustments that only make it superficially more interesting, which is what your suggestions amount to.

So I have to ask: Did you consider any of this when thinking about what to change with Force's tree? Did you consider its role in gameplay? Did you consider why people played it? Did you consider how it's played at high levels? Did you consider common trends in playstyles? Did you consider how the changes would affect its balance with other classes? Did you consider anything besides your own opinions?

You want to create choice by restructuring Force's tree? Reduce the Element Mastery skills to 10 SP but keep the effects the same. Make Flame Tech S Charge and Bolt PP Save 5 SP skills but keep the effect the same. Buff SEs (mostly freeze rate) and Freeze Ignition massively so that it can be useful for mobbing, with huge range for both activation and detonation, high enough damage to make up for having to freeze targets first, and the ability to affect unfrozen enemies. Buff Photon Flare so that it provides a significant damage buff (at least 20% for each PF line, cooldown can be increased as necessary for balancing purposes). Now Force has tons of SP to play around with and lots of options to spec in. Do you spec in one element and all the damage boosting skills? Do you spec in two elements? Do you spec in Freeze Ignition or skip it? Do you spec solely in damage boosting skills for a Techer element or general usage purposes? I don't really know or care enough to think out the best ways to use it since I took all of five minutes to think this up and came up with an idea that creates way more choice than what you just talked about in what I can only assume was about as much time. Did it keep the power level the same? Hell no. The only way to do that would be to do nothing of consequence. Buffs here and nerfs there do not keep the power level the same, that's just a fantasy.

I don't know what you mean by jaded, but I do know this. The vast majority of people who suggest changes to the game do not think them out, and I see no reason to believe you did based on just how badly your ideas would work out in practice. Not that I think my idea of how to adjust Force is any better, there's plenty of variables that would need to be looked at, like the balance of power between skill trees and gear, enemy power levels, class balance, and tech damage. But at least I put some effort into the one objective you put as your goal, which was choice. [/SPOILER-BOX]

GHNeko
Oct 3, 2015, 03:46 AM
FOs need buffs. Just like Sheik and Rosalina need buffs as well!

pls go back to Smashboards

even if you're right

Unnamed Player
Oct 3, 2015, 05:08 AM
I hope they buff the s**t out of Elder Rebellion & Heel Stab cause i want to have a reason to use these two: http://pso2.cirnopedia.info/icons/weapons/tmguns/tmguns_084.pnghttp://pso2.cirnopedia.info/icons/weapons/tmguns/tmguns_109.png

Rakurai
Oct 3, 2015, 06:42 AM
Elder Rebellion has a niche against targets that move around too much to be hit with Satellite Aim reliably.

Heel Stab, I can't really argue with that.

Selphea
Oct 3, 2015, 06:44 AM
I'd say Elder Rebellion had a niche. Then End Attract came along.

yoshiblue
Oct 3, 2015, 07:08 AM
I guess to make the class more exciting, they could add a technique combo system at the cost of il barta's shtick. More or less like il barta but it forces you to use different elements, with some techs doing more damage than others on the final cast: Nabarta, Nafoie, Razonde, Nazan, Gigrants, Ramagid.

Since the majority of those are melee range techs, it would not only help every other class, but also give Force a reason to be a subclass.

Selphea
Oct 3, 2015, 08:24 AM
The problem with Force isn't with Force, but with the skill tree system itself, which IMO is starting to fall apart at 89SP.

Every class at this point is able to get all their big multiplicative skills with points to spare, so there's no conflict of "Should I get X or Y?" that will greatly affect a build's playstyle. Looking at other classes:


Hunter is just full Fury with IW or Automate + relevant Gears
Fighter does LB-Brave-Crit-TAJA-Slayers + relevant Gears
Ranger does WHA-SS-WB-Tactics Trap
Gunner does ZRA-High Time-PK-APPR-Chain
Techer is either a wand whacker or a PP battery for Fo
etc etc, building is just really one dimensional right now.


You can't really have variety when Sega lets you cherry pick all the good skills and are in fact moving prereqs out of the way this pass. People will just beeline for the best skill, then the next best one, then the next until the last few SP where it's down to one meh option vs another.

KLMS1
Oct 3, 2015, 08:53 AM
You speak as if there was some kind of inherent value in being obliged to take shit skills in order to get at something good.

Superia
Oct 3, 2015, 08:56 AM
I'd say Elder Rebellion had a niche. Then End Attract came along.

End Attract still isn't that good against things that move around a lot and/or have poorly segmented hitboxes (i.e. CT finishing on Banther's head with Gu/Ra). That said, I think it being useful on exactly one enemy at exactly one scenario is a little too niche.

Maenara
Oct 3, 2015, 09:18 AM
The short version: You just suggested straight up buffs to Force and nerfed two unrelated classes while claiming Force's power level would remain the same. That's just fail.

I don't have time to respond to your whole post at this time, but, I shouldn't really need to explain how Force would be nerfed in order to compensate for the buffs. When I 'claimed' it would remain at the same power level, I was, instead, suggesting that other aspects of Force would be reduced.

Achelousaurus
Oct 3, 2015, 09:32 AM
Uuuuhhh, Rockbear became ten times easier to kill Yeah but it's not like the game is hard in the first place.
In other morpgs it's hard to actually kill a boss or finish a quest even with good players.
In this game the only difference is whether you get 2 or 4 runs of the same EQ.
Not to mention, at the moment it's completely arbitrary whether we can lock onto a weakspot or not, it's not like the enemies/bosses we can't lock onto are actually harder than the others.
Really just a matter of convenience.


Fo tree doesn't need to be changed, except perhaps Element Conversion (fuck making a rainbow of 13*). Certain techs just need to be less OP (Foie, Gifoie, Rafoie, Ilbarta, ect)
I agree. I wish element was gone or at least negligible and all the related skills would be removed but as Perfect Chaos pointed out, not happening. Element being central to the damage formula is just a means to make us grind and farm more, in what other game do you have to hunt the same endgame weapon 2-3 times to make it stronger than much easier to get weapons?



Also can't blame them for buffing sakura really. Its precision niche was its only strength compared to guren, which currently sports higher dps, mobility, and PP : damage than sakura.
Yeah but since katana is one of the top weapons to refill pp and Guren is only marginally more pp efficient than Sakura, it's still not as good for dealing damage.
Even if it wouldn't lose 10% from not being charge, you can't reliably hit a weakpoint with the dash and the slash both, thus losing the amount damage that would let it even get close to Sakura on a weakpoint.
Guren is good cause it's good in many situations, not because it's the best for any single purpose.
But it's nice Sakura Endo's uncharged damage is buffed, making it even more usable when you don't want to charge (occasionally that can be too slow).
And I really like the Tsukimi pp reduction. It has very good dps cause it's so fast but with only 5 pp below Sakura it's not that useful most of the time, I hope now it's viable to use it more often, so Braver can be even faster XD.


If Ignition skills didn't cost so many skill points, I may actually consider using it. I think it's the biggest downside to those skills. Like maybe combine both of Freeze Ignition's skills and make it 5 points to max. 5 points for Poison Ignition, too, or something.

And since this news was broken out to GHNeko, do I sense him making a new crazy build around this? LOL
Yeah, won't happen but ideally I'd like to get all basic boosts for all elements on force without missing other global multipliers like charged tech bonus.
And if I specify in an element than it's for things like ignition, fire charge / lightning pp reduction.
But element is central to this game's damage so we need to get the same weapon multiple times, or even better, buy AC scratch for 5-10% element boosters.

Selphea
Oct 3, 2015, 09:34 AM
You speak as if there was some kind of inherent value in being obliged to take shit skills in order to get at something good.

That implies the existence of shit skills is necessary in the first place.

KLMS1
Oct 3, 2015, 09:37 AM
Yeah well, a lot of trees have them. Usually at inconvenient spots.

Selphea
Oct 3, 2015, 09:53 AM
Yeah well, a lot of trees have them. Usually at inconvenient spots.

Yes they exist, but they shouldn't need to.

It's really a matter of distilling the skill tree down to the top 7 or so skills per class that people actually take, then making a categorized tray to contain them, e.g. slots that can only fit an activated cooldown skill, slots that can only fit a PP management skill etc, then designing alternatives to fit into that slot such that the options are mutually exclusive.

On a general level this is already done by subclasses. A Braver or Bouncer picking Fighter over Hunter means picking Limit Break over Massive Hunter, Brave Stance over Fury Stance, Tech JA and Crit Strike over double JA Bonuses and so on. But picking a class is an all or nothing thing, and I'd rather have multiple smaller choices over one big one.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 3, 2015, 02:37 PM
Yeah but since katana is one of the top weapons to refill pp and Guren is only marginally more pp efficient than Sakura, it's still not as good for dealing damage.
Even if it wouldn't lose 10% from not being charge, you can't reliably hit a weakpoint with the dash and the slash both, thus losing the amount damage that would let it even get close to Sakura on a weakpoint.

I brought up the weak point issue before, I am aware. Outside of that, guren is better.

Also, dealing ~7% more damage for 25% more PP makes guren about 16% more efficient outside of weakpoint hitbox wonkyness. I woulda've liked if they buffed sakura charged damage while they were at it, but gotta wait and see I guess. Guren may still end up the go-to for most enemies without finnicky weakpoint hitboxes (and the optional shittons of HP) after the change.

If only there were public test servers so I can see how big this speed change really is. I feel that sakura end really should be the better close-range attack for katana in every way over guren (sans getting behind things like kaisefuego to tear into their weak points of course).

LonelyGaruga
Oct 3, 2015, 03:18 PM
I don't have time to respond to your whole post at this time, but, I shouldn't really need to explain how Force would be nerfed in order to compensate for the buffs. When I 'claimed' it would remain at the same power level, I was, instead, suggesting that other aspects of Force would be reduced.

Just as well, I'd rather not have to make another post like that, and I'd rather you spare me the trouble of having to spell out all the problems with every idea you come up with.


Also, dealing ~7% more damage for 25% more PP makes guren about 16% more efficient outside of weakpoint hitbox wonkyness.

Just wanna point out, Snatch Step makes Sakura cost 2 less PP with every use, so it's only actually 15% more PP for 7% more damage. That's not really so bad.

Also they are buffing Sakura End's charged damage. Wait what, uncharged? Thought it was charged. That's such a waste, wtf.

Bellion
Oct 3, 2015, 03:38 PM
Katana with +70% uncharged damage potential, go.

Flaoc
Oct 3, 2015, 03:38 PM
they buffed uncharged but not charged... yep sega sucks

TaigaUC
Oct 3, 2015, 03:51 PM
WTF? wtf.

Flaoc
Oct 3, 2015, 03:58 PM
Braver:
9. Sakura End
Quickening the entire motion and quicker JA timing. Increased damage to non-charged use.


the post that said this


once again SEGA SUX

Bellion
Oct 3, 2015, 04:29 PM
“また、チャージせずに”

Yes, it's correct. Meaning without charging.

Poyonche
Oct 3, 2015, 04:31 PM
It is part of their strategy of "Nobody use this so lets buff it."

Everyone stop using Jetboots please, i want them to be op.

ArcaneTechs
Oct 3, 2015, 04:36 PM
It is part of their strategy of "Nobody use this so lets buff it."

Everyone stop using Jetboots please, i want them to be op.
Let them add more JB PA's first

Poyonche
Oct 3, 2015, 04:37 PM
Watch Sakai saying "But ya'know ? Jetboots are like 2 PAs in 1, so no more PA for them. Love u babai."

ArcaneTechs
Oct 3, 2015, 04:39 PM
Watch Sakai saying "But ya'know ? Jetboots are like 2 PAs in 1, so no more PA for them. Love u babai."
oh the pain of knowing that Sakai would go through with that, just like how we'll probably get 6 more Compound Technic's instead of new Technics (or even a new element) because this is the more easier way for them to bs their way out of doing any sort of work

LightxIce
FirexDark
LightingxWind

NEW GUYS

WindxFire
DarkxIce
LightxLighting

DarkxLight
LightingxFire
WindxIce

Oh gee we waited a year for these? to be dragged out one by one in 3 month increments, thanks Sega GJ 5 FUN get

Poyonche
Oct 3, 2015, 04:44 PM
I actually would like to get Gravity "element". :wacko:

Or just make new technics SEGA, you still have so much prefixes available. Ka, Ya, Wa, Ha, Ta.

ArcaneTechs
Oct 3, 2015, 04:48 PM
Gravity would be nice, wouldn't mind Earth Technics coming back, hell even Water would be cool but then that would mean Sega would have to make things weak to those elements but that means Sega will only put enemies weak those elements in new fields but that means Sega will have to do an overhaul of sorts to make OTHER enemies weak to those spells too or add in neutral damage but that means stuff!

Perfect Chaos
Oct 3, 2015, 04:57 PM
There have been Earth element in past PS games? That'd be cool to have. Ice is just frozen water, so I wouldn't want Water as an element over Earth.

Anduril
Oct 3, 2015, 05:01 PM
There have been Earth element in past PS games? That'd be cool to have. Ice is just frozen water, so I wouldn't want Water as an element over Earth.
Yeah, the Diga line of techs was in Universe; it basically served the role of Zan as Zonde's opposite in that series since there were no wind techs.
Speaking of Universe's techs, since element matching has become so important with Fo, I kinda miss having a base set of nearly-identical techs for each element, like how all the Gi- and Ra- techs were in PSU.

yoshiblue
Oct 3, 2015, 05:04 PM
Would have to get a new Ilfoie though, as its pretty Diga like for a technique.

ArcaneTechs
Oct 3, 2015, 05:05 PM
Would have to get a new Ilfoie though, as its pretty Diga like for a technique.
5 Hit Box per Diga return when?

Superia
Oct 3, 2015, 05:48 PM
Gravity would be nice, wouldn't mind Earth Technics coming back, hell even Water would be cool but then that would mean Sega would have to make things weak to those elements but that means Sega will only put enemies weak those elements in new fields but that means Sega will have to do an overhaul of sorts to make OTHER enemies weak to those spells too or add in neutral damage but that means stuff!

Not necessarily. If gravity as an element were introduced, I could see it being irresistible, having no enemies weak to it and probably having some annoyingly specific way to increase the damage of it. Though for earth/water/other things that are distinctly elemental in nature, that would probably be the case.

Selphea
Oct 3, 2015, 06:31 PM
Wait what, uncharged? Thought it was charged. That's such a waste, wtf.

Yea it's uncharged, my first draft had a misread on my part that I edited yesterday ;_;

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 3, 2015, 07:11 PM
thanks Sega GJ 5 FUN get

Why is sega on your friends list?

GHNeko
Oct 3, 2015, 07:51 PM
@ uncharged sakura buff



SAKURAAIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh wait wrong game


SAAAAAKKAAIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perfect Chaos
Oct 4, 2015, 04:24 AM
Yeah, the Diga line of techs was in Universe; it basically served the role of Zan as Zonde's opposite in that series since there were no wind techs.
Speaking of Universe's techs, since element matching has become so important with Fo, I kinda miss having a base set of nearly-identical techs for each element, like how all the Gi- and Ra- techs were in PSU.IMO, Earth makes more logical sense to be Lightning's opposite. Earth is also more like Wind's opposite (wind corrodes the earth and cliffs can block wind), as well, which just makes Wind and Lightning seem more similar.
But to add one more element would throw off the "opposite element" thing, so maybe add Earth for Wind's opposite and Water for Lightning's opposite. Then we can also get an Earth+Water compound tech. But asking for one new element is too much from SEGA so asking for two is just overkill. But one can dream... :(

KLMS1
Oct 4, 2015, 05:05 AM
Then we can also get an Earth+Water compound tech.

Earth plus water is what's teknik'ly known as "mud". Just sayin'.

Selphea
Oct 4, 2015, 06:55 AM
Just make Earth be non-elemental S/RATK type affected by S/R modifiers but not Element Conversion. Tada Force becomes a subclass option.

rashoood
Oct 4, 2015, 10:18 AM
but aren't they making the whole PA faster? talking about Sakura

If they are then, its not so bad

Maenara
Oct 4, 2015, 01:02 PM
Just make Earth be non-elemental S/RATK type affected by S/R modifiers but not Element Conversion. Tada Force becomes a subclass option.

That's actually a pretty good idea.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 4, 2015, 01:38 PM
Just make Earth be non-elemental S/RATK type affected by S/R modifiers but not Element Conversion. Tada Force becomes a subclass option.

I support anything that sounds like a viable spellsword without having to be techer, or bouncer.

LonelyGaruga
Oct 4, 2015, 02:00 PM
Just make Earth be non-elemental S/RATK type affected by S/R modifiers but not Element Conversion. Tada Force becomes a subclass option.

How does that work, exactly? If it's a striking or a ranged attack it can't be a tech attack, and Force would do nothing for it. Force has a tiny non-fire/ice/lightning tech modifier as a subclass anyway, ranking it at a massive 1.33x for charged techs.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Oct 4, 2015, 02:13 PM
How does that work, exactly? If it's a striking or a ranged attack it can't be a tech attack, and Force would do nothing for it. Force has a tiny non-fire/ice/lightning tech modifier as a subclass anyway, ranking it at a massive 1.33x for charged techs.

And this is true, meaning yay for tech-using hunters. I wouldn't mind it for flavor.

guanhian
Oct 6, 2015, 05:41 AM
weak bullet easier to hit target now

Shadowstarkirby
Oct 6, 2015, 08:37 AM
Surprised Gunslash is getting touched up, even though an attack speed buff and range increase for the striking attacks would've been nice, at least the decreased hitstop, earlier JA windows, and faster mode switch will hopefully make it's combat more fluid and fun to use.

MidCap
Oct 6, 2015, 02:38 PM
Until they increase the DURATION of Sacrifice Bite, it still won't be worth using. It's just too many seconds at zero DPS to get it "set up," which puts you physically behind everyone. Sure, the subsequent numbers look nice and the added animation to the sword looks cool, but there's no way to make up for the loss.

If it lasted for about 3 minutes it would be useful.

Maenara
Oct 6, 2015, 02:43 PM
How does that work, exactly? If it's a striking or a ranged attack it can't be a tech attack, and Force would do nothing for it. Force has a tiny non-fire/ice/lightning tech modifier as a subclass anyway, ranking it at a massive 1.33x for charged techs.

Most of Force's skills boost Techniques, not technique damage. And if Sega says something is a Technique, then Force's skills are going to work for it, even if it also does qualify for striking or ranged damage modifiers.

LonelyGaruga
Oct 6, 2015, 04:43 PM
Until they increase the DURATION of Sacrifice Bite, it still won't be worth using. It's just too many seconds at zero DPS to get it "set up," which puts you physically behind everyone. Sure, the subsequent numbers look nice and the added animation to the sword looks cool, but there's no way to make up for the loss.

If it lasted for about 3 minutes it would be useful.

Sacrifice Bite already is useful to upkeep. There's no real loss in DPS. Using it on a target that lacks super armor only adds 20s, just land it and cancel it for a 40s buff that takes all of 1s to land.

Have you been keeping up with sword? Sacrifice Bite's been useful to maintain for a long while now.


Most of Force's skills boost Techniques, not technique damage. And if Sega says something is a Technique, then Force's skills are going to work for it, even if it also does qualify for striking or ranged damage modifiers.

Eh, guess so. Still has a host of conceptual problems though. Not that it really matters, adding new elements is simply unfeasible.

H25
Oct 6, 2015, 05:02 PM
Do we know if these adjustments that are "to be announced at a later date" in the Oct 14th update? Or do they mean they will finish these changes months later?

GHNeko
Oct 6, 2015, 05:57 PM
Until they increase the DURATION of Sacrifice Bite, it still won't be worth using. It's just too many seconds at zero DPS to get it "set up," which puts you physically behind everyone. Sure, the subsequent numbers look nice and the added animation to the sword looks cool, but there's no way to make up for the loss.

If it lasted for about 3 minutes it would be useful.

You can cancel the PA mid use with a step, jump, and guard.

The total amount of time to get 40 sec worth of sac bite from neutral is around ~80frames / ~1.33 second.

If you're waiting "too many seconds" for Sac Bite, then there is a good chance you can do better. And even then, at max gear, the total duration is only around ~3 seconds before a JA window.

why do so many people think you have to wait past the first charge before you can do anything? 1 charge is more than a enough for a lot of situations, and knowing when to sac bite and when to re-up on sac bite are things you need in order to actually make the best out of Sac Bite and being decent at using sword.

like...

http://i.imgur.com/zOWN9aq.png

come on nigga.

TaigaUC
Oct 6, 2015, 06:26 PM
You know what would make Sacrifice Bite awesome?
If you could combo Nova Strike off it, with the enemy still stuck on the end.
The final swing would throw the enemy off, hurling them at other enemies.

Hell, allow players to do any PA off Sacrifice Bite with the enemy still on the end of the sword.
That'd be fun. Or at least, I think it would be.

GHNeko
Oct 6, 2015, 06:28 PM
It'd be great of aerial Sac bite didnt have such a late fucking JA window. You drop so damn far that if you're not high enough you'll hit the ground before the fucking JA circle shows up.

yoshiblue
Oct 6, 2015, 06:28 PM
Take the cruel path. Lift it above you so you can make it explode into Nagrants.

RadiantLegend
Oct 6, 2015, 07:30 PM
As much as I like HU sword. Sacrifice bite is too much work. If my sword is going to glow I want max sun beam blind your eyes glow.

cheapgunner
Oct 6, 2015, 11:53 PM
Maybe more tech customization but instead of more of the usual? Allow some techs to mirror others? like Ramegid mirror Sabarta, allow charged zonde to fire 3 bolts instead of 1 liek zan does.

Maybe add mods to certain weps. Like extend wire lances reach, allow knuckles to be kept active as your running, allow rifles to be in sue while running ( like the begging intro for the game when it wad advertised). Hell, increase sword's size would be nice as well, or even mod grenade launchers were they shoot a cluster of 1-2 extra shells for normal attacks with slight decreased power for each one individually.

Vatallus
Oct 7, 2015, 12:15 AM
Everyone talking about new PA/tech ideas and I'm just here waiting for my free 10% damage buff on 90% of my class setups.

Poyonche
Oct 7, 2015, 12:37 AM
Everyone talking about new PA/tech ideas and I'm just here waiting for my free skill reset passes

Fixed. :wacko:

cheapgunner
Oct 7, 2015, 12:49 AM
Everyone talking about new PA/tech ideas and I'm just here waiting for my free 10% damage buff on 90% of my class setups.

It's gonna hurt us more than help us. Wouls be solid if they gave a 5% boost for using a non-main class weapon as well. That way the 10% buff wouldn't be so extreme.

Maenara
Oct 7, 2015, 12:51 AM
There should be a 15% damage buff for using crafted weapons that doesn't stack with the main class boost.

Nitro Vordex
Oct 7, 2015, 01:05 AM
As much as I like HU sword. Sacrifice bite is too much work. If my sword is going to glow I want max sun beam blind your eyes glow.
Just wait until EP4 Rebloom.

TaigaUC
Oct 7, 2015, 01:16 AM
I keep wondering if Reborn will somehow close the gap between new and old players, instead of widening it with stuff like weapon title boosts.
What are they gonna do about levelling? Is the cap going to keep growing until there's nobody playing the game at levels 10 to 150? Etc.

LonelyGaruga
Oct 7, 2015, 01:16 AM
It's gonna hurt us more than help us. Wouls be solid if they gave a 5% boost for using a non-main class weapon as well. That way the 10% buff wouldn't be so extreme.


There should be a 15% damage buff for using crafted weapons that doesn't stack with the main class boost.

What, Red weapons aren't good enough?

ArcaneTechs
Oct 7, 2015, 01:18 AM
What, Red weapons aren't good enough?
If your poor it isn't

Maenara
Oct 7, 2015, 01:22 AM
What, Red weapons aren't good enough?

Certain weapons being particularly good when crafted isn't quite the same as a general bonus for using crafted weapons.

LonelyGaruga
Oct 7, 2015, 01:31 AM
Those same weapons would be roughly ~5% weaker than the best on-class 13*s if such a bonus were to be applied to them. That's a terrible idea.

Maenara
Oct 7, 2015, 01:33 AM
Those same weapons would be roughly ~5% weaker than the best on-class 13*s if such a bonus were to be applied to them. That's a terrible idea.

So was introducing such a massive power gap between 13*s and everything else in the first place, and then using them as a leverage point to try and get people to use specific class combos over others, instead of supplying proper differences between classes.

Vatallus
Oct 7, 2015, 03:36 AM
Fixed. :wacko:

I have 12 of those. I don't know what you are talking about. ;-)

But yeah... I still think the 10% buff was a terrible idea. Oh well. Here's to everyone getting 10% more overpowered in a week!

I also always felt crafted gear should have just been a band-aid fix and not something that could of been used for late game, but oh well Sega took that route too.

Xaelouse
Oct 7, 2015, 04:02 AM
For all the money and resources put into upping your craft levels, it should factor into late game. The payout is still pretty awful, actually.
Also I dont see why classes shouldn't be stronger for using their own weapons. It doesn't necessarily mean off-class weapons will suddenly become useless.

TaigaUC
Oct 7, 2015, 04:11 AM
I hate progression stuff like equipment in general.
I wouldn't mind if PSO2 was just the action portion with zero reliance on gear.
More focus on lots and lots of boss fights instead of incentive to redo old stuff for gear, thanks.

Maenara
Oct 7, 2015, 04:35 AM
so you want easy to get weps that almost match 13*?

git gud

Okay, I'll git gud by hoping Gal Gryphon or Anga drops 13*s. That's how I git gud, right?

Flaoc
Oct 7, 2015, 04:36 AM
more like there wouldnt be much of an incentive to go for a 13* if such an easy to get weapon rivaled the best

Maenara
Oct 7, 2015, 04:41 AM
more like there wouldnt be much of an incentive to go for a 13* if such an easy to get weapon rivaled the best

You know, considering that, technically speaking, all an Ares weapon requires to obtain is for you to kill a single Anga Fundarge which drops it, while crafted weapons require materials, meseta, and crafting achievements, crafted weapons are actually technically harder to obtain. Crafted weapons are simply guaranteed.

That's it, isn't it? You want there to be some sort of barrier between the gear of an average player and the gear of you, but since PSO2 doesn't have anything hidden behind a skill barrier, you defend the hiding behind barriers of RNG and tedium.

Vatallus
Oct 7, 2015, 04:41 AM
Eh. I guess I'm one of the few people that realize 13*s aren't required to maul XH.

Also "money and time spent". Yeah, they should of just left crafting weapon/units at EX6. Techniques are fine though. Weapon crafting wasn't even worth its investment until recently unless you needed something on Ranger or Fighter.

ArcaneTechs
Oct 7, 2015, 04:48 AM
You know, considering that, technically speaking, all an Ares weapon requires to obtain is for you to kill a single Anga Fundarge which drops it, while crafted weapons require materials, meseta, and crafting achievements, crafted weapons are actually technically harder to obtain. Crafted weapons are simply guaranteed.

That's it, isn't it? You want there to be some sort of barrier between the gear of an average player and the gear of you, but since PSO2 doesn't have anything hidden behind a skill barrier, you defend the hiding behind barriers of RNG and tedium.
I can't imagine if this is going to be your initial reaction when Invade/Osteria come out or at least still bringing this up when ppl are only going to want those GRANTED the latent doesn't suck too bad

Flaoc
Oct 7, 2015, 04:53 AM
You know, considering that, technically speaking, all an Ares weapon requires to obtain is for you to kill a single Anga Fundarge which drops it, while crafted weapons require materials, meseta, and crafting achievements, crafted weapons are actually technically harder to obtain. Crafted weapons are simply guaranteed.

That's it, isn't it? You want there to be some sort of barrier between the gear of an average player and the gear of you, but since PSO2 doesn't have anything hidden behind a skill barrier, you defend the hiding behind barriers of RNG and tedium.

so all i got out of this is that you want everything handed to you and no real work involved. yea im done wasting my time with you

really how stupid does it sound for an ideal larc to only be 5% stronger than a red wep which btw is guaranteed through c mode with enough miles. no rng besides the groups you get and with what another poster said i better not see this crying when austere is finally out.

Maenara
Oct 7, 2015, 04:59 AM
so all i got out of this is that you want everything handed to you and no real work involved. yea im done wasting my time with you

really how stupid does it sound for an ideal larc to only be 5% stronger than a red wep which btw is guaranteed through c mode with enough miles. no rng besides the groups you get and with what another poster said i better not see this crying when austere is finally out.

I'm sorry? Mindlessly trawling ultimate MPAs until something drops is real work? Ideal weapons are the only thing that can be considered real work, because the Challenge Miles you get per run scale with skill, and aren't simply based on how much tedium you can crawl through.

I don't know about you, but if I ever go into a gas station, purchase a scratch card, and win a million dollars, I'm not going to make fun of the gas station attendant just because the way they're making money is guaranteed.

TaigaUC
Oct 7, 2015, 06:47 AM
XH is a joke. It's just SH with more HP. The only enemy that behaves differently is Luther.
That's not more difficulty, it's juist more tedium.
XH works in tandem with Ultimate: to encourage players to get 13 stars.
When they want players to play, all they have to do is make their current gear irrelevant. That's not fun.

More bosses pls. It shouldn't take a year to add stuff like Twins, Darkness and Apprentice.

Vatallus
Oct 7, 2015, 07:57 AM
I must be one of the few people that still actually has fun playing. Makes me question things when literally everywhere I go all I see is complaints. This isn't liimited to PSOworld, but pretty much every forum and the inactive PSO2 players I have on steam.

I hear things like "its too hard to get a 13*. Yeah I can agree its too hard to get Anga to drop or grind 250 stones for a weapon. But the Xie weapons and now Kuron weapons are a complete joke when it comes to getting 13*s. The upcoming Invade series is probably going to be a complete joke also unless Double drops 1-2 stones a run.

But no one mentions the non-13*s that are just as good if not better than any 13* if used at their respective moments. Niren Orochi with break stance outclasses any 13* DB by a respectable margin at Magatsu but no one says anything about how low their drop rate is. Sure you can buy one from the market if you got a pass but then you are unable to even sell them later. Zirenheit is way more than enough already to take care of current content as a Jet Boot user. I still haven't even touched my Anga jet boots since I have Zirenheit. P.wand is now even better. Blitz Fender now has a godly hidden potential but again since its not a 13* no one talks about how unlikely it is to get it from Dark Falz Elder or Invasion. I could probably keep going on but its probably a waste of effort. My whole post has probably been a waste of effort.

This is why I can't understand this 13* or nothing nonsense people spew. Or why its "Red weapons or nothing now" when it comes to crafted weapons. This need to have the best of the best every single time something better comes out is nothing short of greed and then people get frustrated when they don't get said items.

Zorak000
Oct 7, 2015, 08:12 AM
I mean, the red weapons have an amazing potential, to the point they mostly outclass all sub 12* weapons in most weapon types (craft mastery makes them better than sub 13*, but red rod and talis aren't as good since force has no crit skills of its own)

So they wind up being good intrim weapons until you get a good 12* or 13*. It's kind of a shame about nearly everything under 12* tho.

Live-series for now makes a nice allclass option if you don't want to buy an add class item for crafting (those add fighter prices :< )

But yeah I'm kinda tired of the griping in my circles

KLMS1
Oct 7, 2015, 09:35 AM
The Internet is for porn griping. :argh:

LonelyGaruga
Oct 7, 2015, 11:49 AM
So was introducing such a massive power gap between 13*s and everything else in the first place, and then using them as a leverage point to try and get people to use specific class combos over others, instead of supplying proper differences between classes.

You're complaining about Sega wanting people to play the proper main class for the weapons they want to use? The classes they're supposed to be using? The ones that already are necessary to have as at least a subclass to use the weapons properly? So what, Fi/Hu can't use 13* WL/partisan but Hu/Fi can and that's a problem for you? Multi-class 13*s will come out eventually, so what's the issue? This doesn't even make your idea any better no matter how you look at it. If you can't do better then why are you justifying it?


Or why its "Red weapons or nothing now" when it comes to crafted weapons.

Well, Red weapons are really easy to get. Most sell for really cheap on the player shops if drops aren't doing it for you. Combine that with a low grind/affix price and extremely high stats for a low CM cost and they're very accessible.

Superia
Oct 7, 2015, 12:24 PM
You're complaining about Sega wanting people to play the proper main class for the weapons they want to use? The classes they're supposed to be using? The ones that already are necessary to have as at least a subclass to use the weapons properly? So what, Fi/Hu can't use 13* WL/partisan but Hu/Fi can and that's a problem for you? Multi-class 13*s will come out eventually, so what's the issue? This doesn't even make your idea any better no matter how you look at it. If you can't do better then why are you justifying it?

I am not sure how to put it concisely, but I do not understand this view.

Fi/Hu is more powerful than Hu/Fi using the same weapons (those which are arbitrarily designated to have Fighter compatibility or are crafted) and in order to fix this, they just made one class have stronger weapons of the same kind for no particular reason. For this game, Sega arbitrarily designs the meta with class availability, which is generally not something that I believe developers should be doing. The difference between a main class and a subclass is arbitrary; there is no suppositional (by "suppose", you might have meant that they ought to be using those classes, but I am not sure) expectation that grounds this decision other than that Sega at one point decided to distribute weapons as they did. There is no logical, fun, or balance-related reasoning behind it as far as I can tell. If they want Hunter to be usable as a main class over Fighter, they could just make Hunter usable over Fighter by balancing the classes with each other. I do not believe that the eventual availability of 13* weapons to other classes is currently relevant to the topic at hand with how slowly the game is updated.

LonelyGaruga
Oct 7, 2015, 12:44 PM
All main classes can use every weapon of their categories. That's not arbitrary, because a class has to be able to use some weapons. And Fi/Hu being stronger than Hu/Fi prompting 13*s being massively stronger than everything else is a total joke. That's just people projecting motive to everything Sega does. I've got nothing to say about whether something is arbitrary or not, Sega is in charge of the game design, and I'm not wasting my time declaring the motivations of individuals to be arbitrary or not. That type of behavior is arrogant, pure and simple. The decisions were made, and that's it. Either live with it or give input in the player survey.

Superia
Oct 7, 2015, 01:03 PM
What is arbitrary is that the subclasses are unable to use the weapons, or when they are able to and under what circumstances. It is arbitrary which weapons each main class has. Sega is able to guide the meta by choosing how these things work.



Fi/Hu being stronger than Hu/Fi prompting 13*s being massively stronger than everything else is a total joke.


For this part, I am not sure if you are saying that that is what I am saying. I do not believe this is the case, but that said, I do not see how it is a total joke. While I do not think this is the reason, I do not attempt to provide any reasoning for what Sega does because Sega's reasons for doing things have no impact. I made no mention of my intentions regarding the game, as I do not play it, but for me to give input in a player survey would likely accomplish even less than posting this here.

Mattykins
Oct 7, 2015, 02:30 PM
Problem for me isn't so much getting 13*s to drop. That's the easy part, it seems. It's getting them to drop twice.

#30elementmasterrace

LonelyGaruga
Oct 7, 2015, 04:11 PM
What is arbitrary is that the subclasses are unable to use the weapons, or when they are able to and under what circumstances. It is arbitrary which weapons each main class has. Sega is able to guide the meta by choosing how these things work.

It isn't arbitrary that a Force or a Ranger cannot use as many swords as Hunter can. It isn't arbitrary that Hunter, which specializes in swords, is needed to use sword PAs. Some level of arbitrary decision exists with multi-class status (but really, what games don't have some level of arbitrary decision present anywhere?), but on the whole, more swords are available to some classes (like Fighter) than others (like Force), and weapons like Bio, Live, and the crafting system present a standard for all-class weapons. It isn't arbitrary that classes specialize in weapons that suit their roles, like Hunter getting slow, wide-ranged, hard-hitting melee weapons, or Force getting specialized tech weapons.

All of this makes sense and is pretty reasonable. It's well within Sega's rights to operate like this.

Superia
Oct 7, 2015, 05:14 PM
Almost all of those things are in fact arbitrary.

It is arbitrary that there are more weapon choices for Hunter than there are for Force or Ranger. Any one of us could probably think of more than 5 more weapons that would fit with either of those classes. There are a lot of things they could invent for Ranger or Force to use if they wanted to. I'd agree that nobody should expect to be able to use Hunter weapons without actually being a Hunter, but the way that subclass equipability works is needlessly picky and inconvenient. For the multi-classing, it is entirely up to Sega which classes can equip what, and while you are completely correct in that some level of arbitration is both expected and required, I do not understand why a Fighter could not use ノクスロザン for instance. It's just that Sega says you can't, so you can't. I do not believe that the way weapons happen to be is related to their placement in classes. If swords and DS were switched, they'd just adjust the speed and damage in comparison to how they are now. I have no comment on whether or not Sega should be able operate as they do. It is their game.

Any response will be replied to at some distant time in the future, since "arbitrary" no longer looks like a word to me.

Selphea
Oct 7, 2015, 07:18 PM
There's precedent with how PSO and PSU worked.

In PSO, Hunters specialized in melee weapons but could equip Mechguns up to a certain rarity, along with other specific cross-class weapons like Inferno Bazooka and Holy Ray. Rangers specialized in ranged weapons but could equip Partizans up to a certain rarity along with other specific cross weapons like Vivienne and S-Beat Blades etc

In PSU, Acrotechers specialized in one-handed weapons but could equip Twin Daggers and Twin Handguns up to a certain rarity. Fortegunner specialized in guns but could equip Sabers, Daggers, Partizans up to a certain rarity.

PSO2 is a bit more restrictive in that all weapons up to a certain rarity can be equipped, provided they are crafted to be equippable.

TBH I'd rather have subclass-equippable weapons be consistently 2 stars behind main class or something to follow PSO and PSU's precedent.

Shadowth117
Oct 7, 2015, 08:13 PM
TBH I'd rather have subclass-equippable weapons be consistently 2 stars behind main class or something to follow PSO and PSU's precedent.

Considering there's only a few exceptions with 12*s, isn't that basically how it is anyways now with 13*s around? :wacko:

Selphea
Oct 7, 2015, 08:23 PM
Yea pretty much, except with meseta sink crafting which I wish was implemented in a different form. Full storage of rainbow Reds just doesn't appeal to me.

GHNeko
Oct 7, 2015, 11:54 PM
PSO2 is a lot more open ended than PSO or PSU though. 13*'s being main class only are fine. Having multiclass weapons being 1-2*s behind in strength is fine.

The issue lies in the fact that they're trying balance shit through roundabout methods.

The Weapon title bonus is the most recent example. Having 13*s soooo far ahead of the curve is another example.

12* weapons are craftable, but they havnt added any recipes, but that's fine for the time being.

However, if they want people to stick to main class for the weapons they use, then they shouldnt have fucking gone to a skill tree and sub class system; a system that is inherently open ended and allows for practically limitless combinations.

You dont make a sub class and skill tree system, just to shoe horn people into playing certain ways. It's counter productive and it hurts longevity.

On top of that, the ways that they're going about doing it instead of just fixing the fucking classes so that FI/X and RA/BR dont sit on top of everything is fucking retarded.

I really dont get it.

If you want more people to play HU/X Sword, dont make a tier of weapons that shits on everything and make it HU only. Dont put out damage multipliers for a specific combination of main class and weapon usage.

It's a god damn bandage solution for a problem that shouldnt have even occurred in the first god damn mother fucking place!! And on top of that it can introduce its OWN slew of problems and simply just adds extra variables to take into consideration for balance!

This is the shit that im talking about.

Just fucking fix the classes up so that you dont need retarded ass roundabout methods to get more people to play the way you think they should play (which really you shouldnt be forcing people to play a specific way in the first fucking place because that shit never fucking works.)

And everyone is talking about shit that doesnt even matter right now because ya'll are only bitching and back-n-forth'n about a fucking symptom to a greater god damn problem.

tf niggas.

ZerotakerZX
Oct 7, 2015, 11:59 PM
I'm not happy with weapon buffs. I love using subclass' weapons just for multiplicity. Plus there is a class combinations like TeBo that's made to use sub-weapon (Jet boots are created with techer/force in mind, let's face it.) If Sega don't want us to use weapon of our subclasses, why did they even added the ability to equip it in the first place?

GHNeko
Oct 8, 2015, 12:04 AM
I'm not happy with weapon buffs. I love using subclass' weapons just for multiplicity. Plus there is a class combinations like TeBo that's made to use sub-weapon (Jet boots are created with techer/force in mind, let's face it.) If Sega don't want us to use weapon of our subclasses, why did they even added the ability to equip it in the first place?

Because fuck you we want you to play BoTe.

Fuck Ra/Br.

Fuck Fi/X.

Fuck all subclass combinations!

Nevermind Te has so much more to offer as main class vs Bo! We want you to play BoTe!

That's why we've added this incentive to play the class the "proper way" (its only proper because we've arbitrary stated so!), instead of fixing the classes so that BoTe has just to much to overall as TeBo in a general perspective and both classes are similarly strong in various ways!

So yeah... Fuck you!






PJSalt

Kondibon
Oct 8, 2015, 12:07 AM
Because fuck you we want you to play BoTe.

The fact that Bo/Te and Te/Bo are supposed to be good combos in the first place says a lot. :wacko:

ZerotakerZX
Oct 8, 2015, 12:13 AM
Because fuck you we want you to play BoTe.

Fuck Ra/Br.

Fuck Fi/X.

Fuck all subclass combinations!

Nevermind Te has so much more to offer as main class vs Bo! We want you to play BoTe!

That's why we've added this incentive to play the class the "proper way" (its only proper because we've arbitrary stated so!), instead of fixing the classes so that BoTe has just to much to overall as TeBo in a general perspective and both classes are similarly strong in various ways!

So yeah... Fuck you!






PJSalt
He's the angriest PSO2 player you've ever heard, he's the angry PSO neeeeeeeeerd! *guitar chord*

Selphea
Oct 8, 2015, 12:20 AM
Ehh they should just concentrate cross class multipliers to like 1.4x to 1.8x per class proportionate to effort:reward and give every class a main class skill that gives 20% to self or 10% to party. High Time, Sharpshooter, LB and Shifts Strike are competitive imo. The rest on the other hand...

LonelyGaruga
Oct 8, 2015, 12:22 AM
On top of that, the ways that they're going about doing it instead of just fixing the fucking classes so that FI/X and RA/BR dont sit on top of everything is fucking retarded.

If you want more people to play HU/X Sword, dont make a tier of weapons that shits on everything and make it HU only. Dont put out damage multipliers for a specific combination of main class and weapon usage.

Fi/X and Ra/Br don't sit on top of everything in the first place so it's a-OK. Buffs to sword and Hunter Gear Boost, along with Ultimate, made sword pretty viable to use, so no issue there either.


Plus there is a class combinations like TeBo that's made to use sub-weapon (Jet boots are created with techer/force in mind, let's face it.)

Jet boots are striking attacks. Force has no multipliers for those, and Techer's multipliers are vastly inferior to Hunter and Fighter. Techer and Force have horrible compatibility with jet boots, there's no way that it was created with them in mind. That simply doesn't add up.

Kondibon
Oct 8, 2015, 12:27 AM
Techer and Force have horrible compatibility with jet boots, there's no way that it was created with them in mind. That simply doesn't add up.Wasn't it specifically mentioned at one of the live shows that Bo would go well with Te?

The Walrus
Oct 8, 2015, 12:28 AM
Are you implying that sega knows their own game and weren't just talking out their asses because "lol tech + tech + better tech"?

ZerotakerZX
Oct 8, 2015, 12:29 AM
Fi/X and Ra/Br don't sit on top of everything in the first place so it's a-OK. Buffs to sword and Hunter Gear Boost, along with Ultimate, made sword pretty viable to use, so no issue there either.



Jet boots are striking attacks. Force has no multipliers for those, and Techer's multipliers are vastly inferior to Hunter and Fighter. Techer and Force have horrible compatibility with jet boots, there's no way that it was created with them in mind. That simply doesn't add up.
It adds up perfectly. They had shifta and deband, along with zanverse (the most useful moves of Te, it can't be added by pure chance), and Te can use them all more than any other class can. As for striking damage - it depends on t-atk, not s-atk, and can be further imroved with elemntal weak hit and elemental stance. Friend of mine gets first places on TD quests playing as TeBo.

Kondibon
Oct 8, 2015, 12:31 AM
Are you implying that sega knows their own game and weren't just talking out their asses because "lol tech + tech + better tech"?
I hope that's not directed at me, because that's literally what I'm trying to point out. Garuga saying it doesn't add up implies the person deciding it understands how important dps is and how little JBs actually help support techs. I was only asking because it was so long ago I don't have a source and I figured someone else might know better if it was actually said by a dev, or if it was just something a 3rd party said.

GHNeko
Oct 8, 2015, 12:34 AM
He's the angriest PSO2 player you've ever heard, he's the angry PSO neeeeeeeeerd! *guitar chord*

I'm not even mad. I'm just salty af.


Fi/X and Ra/Br don't sit on top of everything in the first place so it's a-OK. Buffs to sword and Hunter Gear Boost, along with Ultimate, made sword pretty viable to use, so no issue there either.

Fi/X and Ra/Br are still amongst the strongest and versitile class combos. Fi/Bo, Fi/Hu, and Ra/Br specifically. They're also top their with popularity.

Also, I'm not sure why you think i was bringing up issue with sword when I was focusing on classes for my whole entire post.

Also what Kondibon said. Pretty sure sega mentioned shit about boots working well with Te.

LonelyGaruga
Oct 8, 2015, 12:34 AM
Wasn't it specifically mentioned at one of the live shows that Bo would go well with Te?

That was just the game designers not knowing how their own game is played, like Sakai being surprised by how Homing Emission was used shotgun-style in one of the ARKS Grand Prix events (think it was the Chrome Dragon one). The design team might have intended for it, but very clearly failed at it. The logic was almost certainly simply "hey, this classes uses striking and tech attacks, it would go well with a weapon capable of using both!".


It adds up perfectly. They had shifta and deband, along with zanverse (the most useful moves of Te, it can't be added by pure chance), and Te can use them all more than any other class can. As for striking damage - it depends on t-atk, not s-atk, and can be further imroved with elemntal weak hit and elemental stance. Friend of mine gets first places on TD quests playing as TeBo.

lol please stop


Fi/X and Ra/Br are still amongst the strongest and versitile class combos. Fi/Bo, Fi/Hu, and Ra/Br specifically. They're also top their with popularity.

Also, I'm not sure why you think i was bringing up issue with sword when I was focusing on classes for my whole entire post.

Besides Fi/Hu (and Hu/Fi is really good anyway), those classes don't really fit that bill. Fo/Te and Te/Br are also insanely good and are just as good if not better. Ra/Hu is more versatile than Ra/Br, which is only really good at WB + BA combos (not very good mobbing, AR and launcher usage is inferior, no Massive Hunter, etc). None of those classes are very popular either, going off the player surveys indicating Hunter, Braver, and Bouncer made up like 20% of the class population each, and Fighter was like...the lowest I think? There's almost certainly more Ra/Hu than Ra/Br for sure.

All I really mean to get at is that class balance is considerably different from what you're saying.

ShinMaruku
Oct 8, 2015, 12:37 AM
Man this is giving me DFO flashbacks. Whew. Intresting discussion. Ideally I think if we never had stupid ass skill trees and silly synergy Sega would have less issues pushing people in the way they designed it. But they wanted skill trees and never thought out how that would complicate things. They should have just gone simpler.

Superia
Oct 8, 2015, 12:38 AM
It adds up perfectly. They had shifta and deband, along with zanverse, and Te can use them all more than any other class can. As for striking damage - it depends on t-atk, not s-atk, and can be further imroved with elemntal weak hit and elemental stance. Friend of mine gets first places on TD quests playing as TeBo.

I was just about to go to sleep, but what are you saying? All teching classes have those techs, and Bouncer's ability to autocast them gives it no advantage over just charging them up normally. The damage is based on T-Atk, yes, but the attacks themselves use striking modifiers, of which Techer has very little (i.e. nothing) outside of SS and some stuff for wands. I haven't played in a little, but I am pretty sure that Elemental Weak Hit is only for techs. TD rankings do not mean anything to anyone with how many bad players you have clogging up MPAs.

GHNeko
Oct 8, 2015, 12:42 AM
Man this is giving me DFO flashbacks. Whew. Intresting discussion. Ideally I think if we never had stupid ass skill trees and silly synergy Sega would have less issues pushing people in the way they designed it. But they wanted skill trees and never thought out how that would complicate things. They should have just gone simpler.

Seriously!

They've been doing this single class shit for years and when they want to open shit up, they dont let shit grow organically and now they're trying to artifically shape the meta instead of letting the meta develop on its own and working around/with it.

I'm having Fighting Game patch-induced PTSD right now.


No one would have given Sega shit if they stuck with a single class system. Nooooo fucking body. Not a single nigga or niggette would have complained. But they didnt, and now they have all the complaints in the world.

Kondibon
Oct 8, 2015, 12:42 AM
That was just the game designers not knowing how their own game is played, like Sakai being surprised by how Homing Emission was used shotgun-style in one of the ARKS Grand Prix events (think it was the Chrome Dragon one). The design team might have intended for it, but very clearly failed at it. The logic was almost certainly simply "hey, this classes uses striking and tech attacks, it would go well with a weapon capable of using both!".Poor design isn't the same as their intentions though, which is my point. They always do stuff like this. Over nerfing gunner, balancing bosses around WB, etc.


Either way, I don't think the problem here is classes being better with their main class weapons, that's actually pretty logical, the problem is that the gap keeps getting wider seemingly to "fix" certain class combos, to the detriment of fringe or niche ones.

GHNeko
Oct 8, 2015, 12:45 AM
Either way, I don't think the problem here is classes being better with their main class weapons, that's actually pretty logical, the problem is that the gap keeps getting wider seemingly to "fix" certain class combos, to the detriment of fringe or niche ones.


The source of my Norton Salt factory right now jesus christ.

this is basically what's killing me softly right now.

ShinMaruku
Oct 8, 2015, 01:01 AM
They should nuke skill trees make sensible shit baseline and make better weapon perks to act like certain former skill trees.
Sadly they'll never do that.

ZerotakerZX
Oct 8, 2015, 01:17 AM
What's so wrong about skill trees? I think building builds is fun.

Flaoc
Oct 8, 2015, 01:20 AM
What's so wrong about skill trees? I think building builds is fun.

*oops i made a mistake.. nowieither have to spend money to buy a new tree or pray i have reset passes left*

also most good builds are very consistent amongst players anyway

ShinMaruku
Oct 8, 2015, 01:22 AM
Poorly designed skill trees will lead to some class set ups being complete trash and will prompt Sega to do something like the boost they have no rather than just fixing the trees. It adds unneeded work for a team at Sega's level sadly.

GHNeko
Oct 8, 2015, 01:23 AM
What's so wrong about skill trees? I think building builds is fun.

Nothing is wrong with skill trees, its just that skill trees need to be balanced properly which Sega is not doing well right now.

Sega hasnt really done skill trees before so they're venturing into new territory. It's also obvious they werent prepared because they keep getting caught off guard by the player base breaking the game into the ground.

Because they're so clearly unprepared and they keep making reactionary changes to the game in a poor fashion, we're dealing with this clusterfuck that is class combos in PSO2.

Skill trees on top of subclassing leads to a ridiculous amount of potential builds that need to be taken into consideration, and on top of that they keep adding new shit without fixing the old shit, and then bandaging things.

It's nonsensical.

ZerotakerZX
Oct 8, 2015, 01:28 AM
Nothing is wrong with skill trees, its just that skill trees need to be balanced properly which Sega is not doing well right now.

Sega hasnt really done skill trees before so they're venturing into new territory. It's also obvious they werent prepared because they keep getting caught off guard by the player base breaking the game into the ground.

Because they're so clearly unprepared and they keep making reactionary changes to the game in a poor fashion, we're dealing with this clusterfuck that is class combos in PSO2.

Skill trees on top of subclassing leads to a ridiculous amount of potential builds that need to be taken into consideration, and on top of that they keep adding new shit without fixing the old shit, and then bandaging things.

It's nonsensical.

Most intelligibly. Still fun tho.

WEED420BLAZEIT
Oct 8, 2015, 01:34 AM
i don't understand most of these complaints really

players getting buffed==waaahhhhh <incoherent complain>
players getting nerfed==waaaaahhhhhh <complain> abloobloo

shit makes no sense

ZerotakerZX
Oct 8, 2015, 01:36 AM
i don't understand most of these complaints really

players getting buffed==waaahhhhh <incoherent complain>
players getting nerfed==waaaaahhhhhh <complain> abloobloo

shit makes no sense

We complainin about subclasses getting left overboard.

ShinMaruku
Oct 8, 2015, 01:54 AM
Nothing is wrong with skill trees, its just that skill trees need to be balanced properly which Sega is not doing well right now.

Sega hasnt really done skill trees before so they're venturing into new territory. It's also obvious they werent prepared because they keep getting caught off guard by the player base breaking the game into the ground.

Because they're so clearly unprepared and they keep making reactionary changes to the game in a poor fashion, we're dealing with this clusterfuck that is class combos in PSO2.

Skill trees on top of subclassing leads to a ridiculous amount of potential builds that need to be taken into consideration, and on top of that they keep adding new shit without fixing the old shit, and then bandaging things.

It's nonsensical.
Thus they should have never added them. They made it clear they are not capable of doing it properly.

Selphea
Oct 8, 2015, 02:19 AM
Another thing is entire swaths of Skill Trees like Guard Stance, Break Stance, special ammo not called Weak Bullet, Photon Flare, Ignition skills etc are kinda unused.

Shadowth117
Oct 8, 2015, 02:34 AM
Sega hasnt really done skill trees before

http://psp2.psupedia.info/Special%253ASearch/Type_abilities.html
http://psupedia.info/GAS.html

They don't really have an excuse. It was done bad and they had the experience from things that were skill trees all but visually.

GHNeko
Oct 8, 2015, 02:41 AM
Another thing is entire swaths of Skill Trees like Guard Stance, Break Stance, special ammo not called Weak Bullet, Photon Flare, Ignition skills etc are kinda unused.

And why they refuse to pay attention to them is beyond me.


http://psp2.psupedia.info/Special%253ASearch/Type_abilities.html
http://psupedia.info/GAS.html

They don't really have an excuse. It was done bad and they had the experience from things that were skill trees all but visually.

I havnt played much of the Universe/Portable franchise. I was unaware that they've done skill trees before. Are these skill tree mechanics from PSU or did they add them in PSP? If the latter, which number entry?

Because really, in the grand scheme of things, these niggas still havnt had much experience with skill trees.

wefwq
Oct 8, 2015, 04:02 AM
And why they refuse to pay attention to them is beyond me.



I havnt played much of the Universe/Portable franchise. I was unaware that they've done skill trees before. Are these skill tree mechanics from PSU or did they add them in PSP? If the latter, which number entry?

Because really, in the grand scheme of things, these niggas still havnt had much experience with skill trees.
The "skill tree" system on PSP2 was awful.

Z-0
Oct 8, 2015, 05:17 AM
I thought the skill tree system on PSP2 was better than PSO2's as no skill had no ties to others one and you could just do whatever you liked.

GHNeko
Oct 8, 2015, 05:23 AM
Works fine in a game with limited skills and classes.

Can you subclass in PSP2? If so, then that makes it even easier to deal with, and naturally would result in a better product compared to PSO2.

From a quick glance, there only seems to be Hunter, Ranger, Force, and Vanguard, and no subclassing.

EvilMag
Oct 8, 2015, 05:28 AM
Works fine in a game with limited skills and classes.

Can you subclass in PSP2? If so, then that makes it even easier to deal with, and naturally would result in a better product compared to PSO2.

From a quick glance, there only seems to be Hunter, Ranger, Force, and Vanguard, and no subclassing.

You got to pick what weapon types you get to use. If you wanna be a hunter rocking an S rank Launcher along with an S Rank Rod go for it. Though it costs more points to upgrade to weapon types not for that class. If you don't like it, you can just remove the upgrade. You can read the rest here: http://psp2.psupedia.info/Type_Extend.html

I think personally PSP2 was almost perfect aside from some balance issues (HI BRAVER/VANGUARD) which Infinity mostly fixed.

isCasted
Oct 8, 2015, 06:01 AM
I agree that Portable 2's customization rocked.
You can play any class with any weapons you want (provided your class level is high enough), and levelling different classes also unlocks skills that you can use on any other class. I don't think any of those skills force you to stick with particular playstyles either. This way you have actual incentives for trying different classes and hybriding playstyles.

Also, there are status effect resist skills, which are a godsend if you don't have units with resists you need.

GHNeko
Oct 8, 2015, 06:13 AM
Good thing PSP2i is being (fan)translated then lmao.

I think I'll have to try this game out when its done.

Lumpen Thingy
Oct 8, 2015, 06:31 AM
All PSP2 was is spam twin sabers and win since it pretty much shat on any other melee weapon in the game

Totori
Oct 8, 2015, 06:33 AM
Twin Daggers did the chain job better, then move to Big Sword for a finish.

Z-0
Oct 8, 2015, 06:58 AM
PSP2 was dominated by Blade Destruction, but Infinity nerfed it and pretty much everything was OP if you used it correctly with Sazonde.

TaigaUC
Oct 8, 2015, 04:34 PM
I keep hearing that PSP2's skill system was really good.
Haven't tried it myself though.

Kondibon
Oct 8, 2015, 07:59 PM
From a quick glance, there only seems to be Hunter, Ranger, Force, and Vanguard, and no subclassing.There was no subclassing but most of the skills except some high end ones could be used on any class. And the skill system wasn't really a tree, it was more like the ability system in KH. You unlocked new skills by leveling your character and classes. It was relatively well designed, but maybe a bit limiting.

EvilMag already linked the class extension thing, which was WAY better than the weapon usage system we have now, and I can't comprehend why they couldn't do something like that again, even if it had to be stricter to keep people from using every weapon.


pretty much everything was OP if you used it correctly with Sazonde.Sazonde in infinity was ridiculous. "Hey let's have a mid range AoE knock down high damage dot that stacks chains like mad". = w=

ShinMaruku
Oct 8, 2015, 08:40 PM
http://psp2.psupedia.info/Special%253ASearch/Type_abilities.html
http://psupedia.info/GAS.html

They don't really have an excuse. It was done bad and they had the experience from things that were skill trees all but visually.

PSP2 is made by a different team. That's why it was done well. They need to either spread that team to the winds or outsource the development of the game.

Anon_Fire
Oct 8, 2015, 09:37 PM
PSP2 is made by a different team. That's why it was done well. They need to either spread that team to the winds or outsource the development of the game.

PSP2 and Infinity were both made by Alfa System

ZerotakerZX
Oct 9, 2015, 02:14 AM
PSP2 and Infinity were both made by Alfa System
And it featured many gameplay improvments and tweaks. Sega should hire em for consulting.

Totori
Oct 9, 2015, 02:47 AM
They specialize in compressing material mostly, development was split likely between a team of them and SEGA peeps, that worked closely with PSU at the time.

ShinMaruku
Oct 9, 2015, 01:08 PM
Point is Sega should not be trusted to develop this game without significant help. PSU,PSO2 shows this. These guys have only been making these games they are gonna burn out and most of them were never so hot.

Z-0
Oct 9, 2015, 01:19 PM
The reason PSO2 is not a "good game" is because the game doesn't matter. PSO2 is not designed to be a good game, it's only a product of the larger PSO2 sphere in Japan.

PSO2 is a game that's designed to be aimed at the newer generation of people who love social media and sharing. It's a game that thrives on its community, rather than the quality of the game. The game is a fashion statement (inside and out) because it gets people talking, sharing ideas and communicating with each other. As long as people are doing this, it doesn't matter if the game is "badly designed" because that is the intent.

A friend of mine recently went to TGS2015 and talked to SEGA about these very things, and this is what they said (well, not about the game not mattering haha). Look at the attendance to their festas and public broadcasts that you can attend -- the attendance is HUGE because the PSO2 sphere is interesting in a community sense.

PSO2 isn't about the gameplay. PSO2 is about social experiences entirely. There is no point discussing what should be done with PSO2 because it doesn't matter to SEGA. IF you're really looking for a game, you should look elsewhere.

TaigaUC
Oct 9, 2015, 01:52 PM
Yeah, I was getting that impression. They don't want to introduce systems to streamline organizing parties, because they want people directly talking to each other.

Well, the chat GUI could still use work.

Hysteria1987
Oct 9, 2015, 09:55 PM
The reason PSO2 is not a "good game" is because the game doesn't matter. PSO2 is not designed to be a good game, it's only a product of the larger PSO2 sphere in Japan.

PSO2 is a game that's designed to be aimed at the newer generation of people who love social media and sharing. It's a game that thrives on its community, rather than the quality of the game. The game is a fashion statement (inside and out) because it gets people talking, sharing ideas and communicating with each other. As long as people are doing this, it doesn't matter if the game is "badly designed" because that is the intent.

A friend of mine recently went to TGS2015 and talked to SEGA about these very things, and this is what they said (well, not about the game not mattering haha). Look at the attendance to their festas and public broadcasts that you can attend -- the attendance is HUGE because the PSO2 sphere is interesting in a community sense.

PSO2 isn't about the gameplay. PSO2 is about social experiences entirely. There is no point discussing what should be done with PSO2 because it doesn't matter to SEGA. IF you're really looking for a game, you should look elsewhere.

Interesting take on the game, thanks for posting it. I'd always thought the game was designed just to sell more stuff, rather than around a social thing. There was always a push to buy AC, and then there's all those collabs...

Maybe that's where we're all going wrong, I don't see much socialization in the game, and those that do try tend to get shot down. Unless... Could it be...?

Were B001 doing it right the entire time?! :-o

Kondibon
Oct 9, 2015, 10:07 PM
Maybe that's where we're all going wrong, I don't see much socialization in the game, and those that do try tend to get shot down. Unless... Could it be...?

Were B001 doing it right the entire time?! :-oI think most JP players socialize on B-201, or in their teams.