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Maenara
Nov 10, 2015, 02:16 PM
When Dark Falz Elder came out, both he and Falz Arms could actually make MPAs fail.
When Dark Falz Loser came out, both he and Apos Dorios could actually make MPAs fail.
When Mining Base Defense: Invasion came out, MPAs could actually fail it.
When Mining Base Defense: Incursion came out, MPAs could actually fail it(And still do with a significant frequency).
When Mining Base Defense: Despair came out, MPAs could actually fail it(And still do with a significant frequency).
When Magatsu came out, MPAs could actually fail it.
When AIS versus Magatsu came out, MPAs could actually fail it(And still do).

Progeny of the Apocalypse is so far from being failable that you could pick 6 completely random players that have never met each other, all running shit-tier builds like RA/BO, with random 10* gear, and not only would they not be in any danger whatsoever on Extra Hard, they wouldn't even need to know anything about the EQ beforehand, except to save their Photon Blast for the Persona portion. And then they would complete the mission.

That's why I hate it. Just wanted to get that off my chest.
Back to Fallout 4.

martinmeegan
Nov 10, 2015, 02:27 PM
Amen to the hate bit and amen to the back to Fallout 4 bit.

Achelousaurus
Nov 10, 2015, 02:28 PM
lol
But I know what you mean. The eq is really easy thanks to the ARKS Effect. But tbh, failing Magatsu 2nd phase is not any harder. Not killing Sai doesn't ymean you failed, it means you get a few less cubes.

I hate Profound Darkness rather cause of Sega being a bunch of fucktards that prefer to dig themselves deeper into the shit instead of trying to actually dig themselves out of it.

Rather than fix that you can do 25million dmg in 30 seconds and other op shit, they create two super unfun bosses that are incredibly annoying to fight.

Running Simulator Online 2

LonelyGaruga
Nov 10, 2015, 02:40 PM
There is so much more to difficulty than pass/fail, but that seems incomprehensible to so many that it doesn't seem worth discussing.

All I'm going to say is that Profound Invasion can be cleared in less than half the time that Double + PD can be cleared. When put like that, PD is actually the most difficult of all those quests.

Maenara
Nov 10, 2015, 02:50 PM
Please stop defending this bullshit.

There is no difficulty other than pass or fail because passing or failing is the only thing that affects absolutely anything outside of a number you get to see for 5 seconds at the end of the quest.

Achelousaurus
Nov 10, 2015, 02:51 PM
I know, I feel quite similar (as I mentioned when people started raging about being revived automatically in Magatsu 2nd phase) but this eq is just bs.
Once ARKS Effect kicks in you are pretty much unkillable so even though it wants to be a super epic fight against the ultimate evil, it feels more like a casual chore similar to tacos.
Wait around and occasionally whack the mole long enough until the cubes fall out.

And I know people beat it in under 5 minutes without ARKS Effect and all, but that requires not just a premade mpa but apparently also a lot of RNG luck cause if Double moves a lot, there is just nothing you can do against.
Last time I was on force Double was outside Ilgrants range more than half the time.

Whoever is in charge of current content needs to be taken behind a building and shot.
If it's Suganuma, then he clearly outlived his usefulness of early ep 3 improvements.

Shunx
Nov 10, 2015, 02:51 PM
I mean everyone has a 13* these days and you get a free +10 13* when you trade in some stones and it'll have Decent affixes on it.

Unless you're Fi/Hu with Knuckles or Partizan, then you're just breaking stuff.

Rupikachu
Nov 10, 2015, 02:57 PM
Sega is trying to make the pugs happy, plug giving them decent gear to not fail epicly on TD4, which looks pretty hardcore

Poyonche
Nov 10, 2015, 03:01 PM
Watch TD4 features a random thing like "Lillipan -or Melitta- Effect" that gives you 59% resists, +1000atk and +50%HP&PP.

Oh wait, they already showed a gameplay of it.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 10, 2015, 03:04 PM
Please stop defending this bullshit.

There is no difficulty other than pass or fail because passing or failing is the only thing that affects absolutely anything outside of a number you get to see for 5 seconds at the end of the quest.

So you're saying that there's no difference in difficulty in clearing PD below 5 minutes and 10+ minutes? There's no difference in difficulty in clearing PD solo compared to with a full MPA? There's no difference in difficulty in clearing PD without getting hit compared to playing normally? All because it has no real effect in gameplay? Difficulty is about the challenge, the skill and knowledge involved. Only judging it based on reward is incredibly close-minded.

Even if PD was difficult to clear, the best players would still be aiming for both a clear and a low clear time or some other goals. Simply clearing a quest is the lowest bar for difficulty imaginable. You can always take something difficult and make it more difficult by setting arbitrary goals like a fast clear, a no damage run, or a solo run.

Which probably speaks for your caliber if you don't even want to set goals for yourself higher than pass/fail.

Mattykins
Nov 10, 2015, 03:07 PM
I have hope for TD4, since TD has generally been the go-to EQ for something closely resembling a challenge, but I'm afraid Sega will muck it up somehow :c

I'm going to maintain that the concept of the MPA itself is the cancer that's killing this game. It's not fun playing with 11 random people, it never was fun, and rather than admit that, Sega just makes MPAs easier to the point where you just kinda swing your dick around and things die.

Raujinn
Nov 10, 2015, 03:14 PM
idk I don't really enjoy the challenge of not being able to carry 11 people...

Rupikachu
Nov 10, 2015, 03:16 PM
I have hope for TD4, since TD has generally been the go-to EQ for something closely resembling a challenge, but I'm afraid Sega will muck it up somehow :c

I doubt they will muck it up, considering Sega's official pugs™ at 75 and with good equips (Slave was it?) couldn't beat it even on vh (lol)?

EvilMag
Nov 10, 2015, 03:18 PM
You know I like the fact that the PD thread and this forums isn't full of people bitching about Double+PD pugs. Its a breath of fresh air to be honest.

Raujinn
Nov 10, 2015, 04:09 PM
I too have enjoyed a break from the MY PUG SUCKS and the mountains of confirmation bias that usually accompanies it.

My point was essentially that if they make the quest super hard and you yourself get decent at it, you're still at the mercy of being put with 11 random people whose skill level and gear level could be anywhere from obliterating yours to why are they even here. I mean don't get me wrong, it's understandable when people get upset after they played as hard as they could have and still get a failure when someone else in another MPA could be the worst player ever and get carried by everyone else. Failing a quest due to factors utterly beyond your control, especially in a quest you only get a random single chance at doing, is incredibly frustrating.

Mattykins
Nov 10, 2015, 04:13 PM
I too have enjoyed a break from the MY PUG SUCKS and the mountains of confirmation bias that usually accompanies it.

My point was essentially that if they make the quest super hard and you yourself get decent at it, you're still at the mercy of being put with 11 random people whose skill level and gear level could be anywhere from obliterating yours to why are they even here. I mean don't get me wrong, it's understandable when people get upset after they played as hard as they could have and still get a failure when someone else in another MPA could be the worst player ever and get carried by everyone else. Failing a quest due to factors utterly beyond your control, especially in a quest you only get a random single chance at doing, is incredibly frustrating.

Exactly, which is why the MPA model needs to be scrapped entirely. I mean, it won't, and we're too far deep to even hope for that, but it needs to be done.

Xaelouse
Nov 10, 2015, 04:40 PM
Double's only difficulty is whether your class has ease of tracking down the weakspot or not.
PD is just a glorified bal rodos.

Cmode is garbage but the looming effect of failure made it feel right, I think. Too bad it only boils down to speedrunning/memorization to avoid it so a certain way of playing is only favored. Kinda like the FO and Double situation?

XQs kinda have the right idea of difficulty but not really fleshed out and sometimes too forgiving. Of course, it is also the least updated quest type in the game.

Shadowstarkirby
Nov 10, 2015, 04:41 PM
I kind of enjoy not being screwed out of EQ runs because my MPA happened to be awful. I still regularly deal with that shit in TD3 and TD4 is likely to be even worse, so there will be plenty of failures for everyone not in an organized group to enjoy then. Wasn't a highlight of PD the time attack element of the quest? Clearing it fast is a challenge in itself I would think, if I had a big enough team, I know I would definitely have fun trying to get everyone in it to clear the quest as fast as possible and see how we perform.

Shinamori
Nov 10, 2015, 05:13 PM
You know, I wish you guys would stop bitching about everything.

Mattykins
Nov 10, 2015, 05:15 PM
I wish people wouldn't just bend over and accept things that are obviously bad :T There's a big problem, and PD being too easy is but a symptom of that.

Shinamori
Nov 10, 2015, 05:24 PM
Nothing wrong with PD being easy. Because I'm sure if it was hard, you'd still bitch.

Poyonche
Nov 10, 2015, 05:32 PM
Nothing wrong with PD being easy. Because I'm sure if it was hard, you'd still bitch.

Dude what are you expecting ? This is PSOworld, aka Cradle of Bitching. :wacko:

Tunga
Nov 10, 2015, 05:32 PM
I doubt they will muck it up, considering Sega's official pugs™ at 75 and with good equips (Slave was it?) couldn't beat it even on vh (lol)?

You could see in the video they weren't even trying to win.

Flaoc
Nov 10, 2015, 05:37 PM
You could see in the video they weren't even trying to win.

oh they definately were trying to win... what is sega actualy able to clear lets be honest

N__
Nov 10, 2015, 06:26 PM
Double's only difficulty is whether your class has ease of tracking down the weakspot or not.
PD is just a glorified bal rodos.

Cmode is garbage but the looming effect of failure made it feel right, I think. Too bad it only boils down to speedrunning/memorization to avoid it so a certain way of playing is only favored. Kinda like the FO and Double situation?

XQs kinda have the right idea of difficulty but not really fleshed out and sometimes too forgiving. Of course, it is also the least updated quest type in the game.

cmode is not garbage, even less mission start. That is a great quest that only lacks on drops when try to solo it (with less than 12 players is fun as well), as sometimes the drops can be shit forcing you to restart. CM2 as well as needs a katana for an optimal solo run making it dull to restart everytime. But sega doesn't encourge solo playing and never did as far as I know.

Flaoc
Nov 10, 2015, 06:30 PM
forced status effects being proper difficulty... HAH?

Unnamed Player
Nov 10, 2015, 06:36 PM
When Dark Falz Elder came out, both he and Falz Arms could actually make MPAs fail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rn-lqkE58I

Naoya Kiriyama
Nov 10, 2015, 06:53 PM
Sometimes I believe that people are being forced to play this game or something, with the amount of complains and toxicity with all the bashing and yet, they still are here.

Having fun or enjoying the game seems to be the biggest taboo in this forum.


I doubt they will muck it up, considering Sega's official pugs™ at 75 and with good equips (Slave was it?) couldn't beat it even on vh (lol)?
I believe it's not about "hey, they have OP weapons" because I'm pretty sure the gear aren't grinded or have potential unlocked. I saw the TD4 stream and noticed the damage is super low for weapons that are supposed to be antidarker. for example the ilgrants, I've done way more damage with light caduceus +40 with a subpar build and without affixes (about 5k per ilgrants hit) and yet the newman force barely got past 1k per hit.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 10, 2015, 07:12 PM
Something I think that people keep forgetting about the livestreams is that they're also always undermanned. The TD4 livestream only had four people playing.

The livestreams don't really clear EQs anyway. They failed Loser and Magatsu too. They exist just to provide a sneak peak at future content.

Naoya Kiriyama
Nov 10, 2015, 07:27 PM
Something I think that people keep forgetting about the livestreams is that they're also always undermanned. The TD4 livestream only had four people playing.

The livestreams don't really clear EQs anyway. They failed Loser and Magatsu too. They exist just to provide a sneak peak at future content.

Actually the livestream was 10/12 and people were moving around, so there wasn't any afks. Also I checked the gear and apparently they're +40.

I do understand though if they're just playing around instead of clearing it. Clearing it would defeat the purpose of being a sneak peek.

Mattykins
Nov 10, 2015, 07:54 PM
That's prolly why we never got a sneak peek of Double/PD like that; they tried to figure out how to fail it, threw their hands up and said 'we got nothin''.

WEED420BLAZEIT
Nov 10, 2015, 07:55 PM
1.on other threads like memegatsu, td 3, etc. ppl bitching about how difficult they are

2.on this thread ppl bitching because it's too easy


smh tbqvhwy family

ArcaneTechs
Nov 10, 2015, 08:24 PM
sheesh Maenara being the one to make a thread like this? figure you werent the type to complain about something like PD.

Memegatsu? the fuck is Block 01 trash coming up with these days? as if calling Profound Darkness " the Yaoi brothers" wasnt bad enough

I'm more disgusted with the long ass grind for Nero stones, ya I wanted PD EQ to be a bit more...challenging but at the same time, I'd rather not fail almost all the time.

To this day, seriously dont know why the fuck you guys take any gameplay from the stream "serious" as if they really had a struggle EVER. By now you guys should know this...least the few of you do

anyways TD4, I'll be ready to complain about my pugs cuz TD 2/3 are still usually shit with 1/4-3/4 the Tower Gauge (total) usually always left (though i dont expect perfection but still) and of course TD2's wall going down because "how do i keep darkers away from wall???"

TaiDono
Nov 10, 2015, 08:31 PM
I like this thread.
A lot.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 10, 2015, 08:35 PM
I like this thread.
A lot.
Good because you get to relieve the PSU day forums ALMOST all over again

Z-0
Nov 10, 2015, 08:37 PM
I gave up on expectations so I just make the most of everything.

And thus, I am thoroughly enjoying PD.

TaigaUC
Nov 10, 2015, 09:00 PM
Still waking up. What immediately comes to my mind:

- Double is annoying in general. Design-wise, gameplay-wise, environment-wise, character-wise, etc.
- PD cutscenes feel like they waste a lot of time, as does PD flying around for ages (which is random)
- Some melee can barely touch the PD weak points, or it feels like you're hitting but you're not, and it's hard to tell
- You have to go from phase to phase, and often PD can't decide whether it's passed phase threshold or not (it comes down then goes away)
- Nothing worthwhile ever drops
- I really don't like that tinny high-pitched angry gold armor man. I laughed when I first saw it. It doesn't look like anything I would ever call "Profound Darkness".

I guess I don't really care if the multi wipes/passes, as long as the fight feels involving and fun?
I prefer battles where I'm constantly busy, and not just in running from point A to B.
It feels like there's too much wait time between attacks we have to dodge. It's not a fast-paced fight. And then we don't even have to dodge if we have Arks Level 2 or 3.
We can take a breather, and then some. Or rather, we have to because we can't attack while PD is flying off somewhere or if Double keeps running away.
On the contrary, gold armor man has so much going on that it's almost difficult to follow.

A few ideas on how to keep people busy during PD's flights:
- Add turrets for when PD is flying in the distance. Gives players something to do.
- Add some kind of barrier system for PD's incoming attacks, that multiple players have to activate. Would keep some players busy.
- Have PD drop adds in the flying around phase. If you don't kill them in time, they detonate and kill people (ala De Rol Le, or something).

sparab
Nov 10, 2015, 09:03 PM
A few days ago I tried XH elder in a vita block, rage quited after 4 minutes (not even entered 2nd phrase

PD can as well be incredibly fun and challenging with average vita players

Vintasticvin
Nov 10, 2015, 09:47 PM
You know, I wish you guys would stop bitching about everything.

^ This

D-Inferno
Nov 10, 2015, 10:02 PM
I prefer that it's not easy to completely fail a quest; failing TD3 both times on the first day was so irritating because you had to wait for the next batch of set eqs/or lucky random EQ, and at the same time avoid "spoliers".

However, I do feel Double and PD go down way too fast. Both bosses are sorely lacking in HP, and the former really needed immunity to Ilbarta's chain effect, because lock-on -> Ilbarta is cheap and mindless. I just feel like the difficulty nerf policy that was applied to Ultimate Naberius seeped its way into this EQ. That, or they just wanted to make it go down fast to max AC ship transfers to other ships and back (have fun having to play with people you don't even know in some cases) just to get the next carrot on a stick. It's cool that this boss is TA-able, but I was expecting a LOT more bulk from the "strongest" Dark Falz and the ruler of Falzes itself; both which have been teased for nearly 3 years. Kind of underwhelming to be honest.

Let's see if Dark Falz Apprentice Gia (DFAG) even tries. Oh wait; AIS.

Lumpen Thingy
Nov 10, 2015, 10:04 PM
People bitch about this EQ boss being easy yet people never made threads about this shit in PSU even though you could 1 fucking shot bosses there. God I hate how much piece of shit world players bitch about EVERYTHING.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 10, 2015, 10:08 PM
People bitch about this EQ boss being easy yet people never made threads about this shit in PSU even though you could 1 fucking shot bosses there. God I hate how much piece of shit world players bitch about EVERYTHING.
just remember during PSU days everyone bitched about everything good or bad, from free stuff to large updates etc nobody was happy, only anger!

Lumpen Thingy
Nov 10, 2015, 10:26 PM
just remember during PSU days everyone bitched about everything good or bad, from free stuff to large updates etc nobody was happy, only anger!

Well to be fair some of it was justified aka reskins of reskins being called "new" content. lol

Tankotron
Nov 10, 2015, 11:04 PM
I don't know what parties you were in that failed Elder or Magatsu Sai but I will at least agree there isn't very little threat to failing PD. Maybe the first time with no arks boost he'd kill you a bit but that doesn't really happen anymore. Buuuut the only thing i see people still suck at now is TD3. SH shitters.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 10, 2015, 11:06 PM
Well to be fair some of it was justified aka reskins of reskins being called "new" content. lol
That was toward the end of PSU's lifespan for the US/EU servers because of the lack of data we didn't have that the Admins did they're very best to play damage control and call them "Unique" weapons. The really annoying part was that there was people defending them as well despite us being shafted even more than we were

Achelousaurus
Nov 10, 2015, 11:06 PM
And the BS is pulling atm is better?
Cause new content isn't automatically good just cause it's new.

And the reason we bitch is simple. The game is a mess with gigantic difference between bad and good players but Sega forces 12man quests on us for almost everything that's fun.
Which is why the difficulty is a total mess.
Which is why Sega continues giving us more and more bs new content cause they refuse to fix any problems and instead try to "fix" stuff by giving new content that is bs but as a result addresses the problems in retarded ways.

We like the game or we wouldn't play. That's precisely why we bitch. Every time we get hyped and look forward to new content it turns out to be bs. But we like the game. We want to have fun playing it. Sega just won't let us ._.


I gave up on expectations so I just make the most of everything.

And thus, I am thoroughly enjoying PD.
lol
That's the best attitude. Sadly I'm far too bitter and cynic and jaded for that :(

I think Sega could instantly fix most problems by simply having challenge or just enemy stats or just their hp scale with player count.
That would make 4 player eqs viable and you could still get good rewards and a good amount of runs.
The huge performance gap wouldn't be much of an issue, if some people get 8 runs of ToT4 that's fine for them but I am satisfied cause I can get 4 runs with a handful friends and not just 2 runs with low drops cause people are too stupid to stick together and all over the map groups of 2-3 people fight bosses with pitiful damage. and no matter what I'm gonna miss some drops.
I won't have to fight Magatsu and play Follow The WB: Can You Guess Where It's Now? but can just keep doing high dmg on the spot it's best placed on.

Kole
Nov 10, 2015, 11:09 PM
The boss is much simpler than previously released bosses (I only died to the gates on my first attempt) and can give the strongest weapons ingame.
I was more impressed by the trailer cause it kept showing people dying.

...at least the weapons are nice?

Raujinn
Nov 10, 2015, 11:11 PM
There's more people in here bitching about people bitching than there are actually people bitching. This shit's gettin meta.

e: and now I'm bitching about people bitching about people bitching fuuuuuuck

e2: Throwin my opinions in: I actually like this EQ as it is pretty much. It's good times imo.

PSchiZ
Nov 10, 2015, 11:12 PM
this thread is awesome

Great Pan
Nov 10, 2015, 11:48 PM
Remove ARKS buff, and ship2 will fail this EQ EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Selphea
Nov 10, 2015, 11:50 PM
TeHu = walking immortal ARKS buff.

TeBr probably makes more sense for DPS though.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 11, 2015, 12:00 AM
1.on other threads like memegatsu, td 3, etc. ppl bitching about how difficult they are

2.on this thread ppl bitching because it's too easy


smh tbqvhwy family

No one with sense bitches about how difficult TD3 and magatsu are. People bitch about people who refuse to learn how to do it properly after a year. Get it straight.


Still waking up. What immediately comes to my mind:

- Double is annoying in general. Design-wise, gameplay-wise, environment-wise, character-wise, etc.

The constant spinning of the legs makes me want to be an ice Fo. Even with guren, that shit is annoying.

TaigaUC
Nov 11, 2015, 12:23 AM
Thinking about it a little more, if you compare with Luther and Elder's long windup attacks, you still end up guarding/dodging way more often than versus PD or Double.
An exciting battle needs to be more of a back and forth thing. But then there's Magatsu which is more about unloading DPS.

I guess the thing that keeps most people busy during Magatsu is trying to stay on the platforms while maximising damage.
From what I've seen, most people still don't seem to know how to evade his occasional shout or the white explosion clap.
Maybe most people find it easier to just take the hit and jump back on.

Perhaps another reason why Magatsu is more exciting is because there's the sense of urgency of stopping him before he breaches the final wall.
He rarely ever gets anywhere near it anymore though.

Meanwhile, Double+PD have a one hour time limit? That's way more than enough.
I know JP people who keep 2-manning Double+PD on XH. Is that possible with XH Elder and Luther? Or Magatsu?

InvertedWyvern
Nov 11, 2015, 12:35 AM
I don't get it. Are we asking to fail this EQ if we played in an unorganized MPA?
Or are we wishing it was harder?

In any event people would still find broken ways to kill the boss much like gu/br upon Magatsu's release.

nguuuquaaa
Nov 11, 2015, 12:37 AM
What I like in this EQ is Techer getting more spotlight due to WB nerf and occasional status effects :wacko:
And ARKS buff lv3 is a bless for those who build HP-oriented :wacko:

isCasted
Nov 11, 2015, 12:56 AM
Remove ARKS buff, and ship2 will fail this EQ EVERY SINGLE TIME.

This. The buff is definitely too strong, but it shouldn't be removed entirely. The concept is cool, because faster players (supposedly) gain bigger challenge, and weaker ones struggle less.
I'd say, make it take 1.5 times more kills to fill up, then make level boosts at 75% and 90% instead of 33% and 66%. Just that alone can make fight more interesting.

But other than that, I appreciate the effort that was put into this fight. Even despite lacking difficulty and pacing I see it as a logical continuation of Loser (unlike Magatsu, who is a logical continuation of Big fucking Lagdha, of all things). The atmoshpere, the music, the chaos from all the attacks - all top-notch.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 11, 2015, 01:00 AM
Meanwhile, Double+PD have a one hour time limit? That's way more than enough.
I know JP people who keep 2-manning Double+PD on XH. Is that possible with XH Elder and Luther? Or Magatsu?

Loser duo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZUWEVn3oMQ

Unless by XH Elder and Loser you mean Profound Invasion, but that's pretty much the same exact thing. Profound Invasion Elder + Loser have substantially less HP than the standardfare EQ variants. Don't think Magatsu is possible because it's probably gonna break the final wall before you can kill it. SH solos are possible, but are extremely tight.

isCasted
Nov 11, 2015, 02:07 AM
Don't think Magatsu is possible because it's probably gonna break the final wall before you can kill it. SH solos are possible, but are extremely tight.

Pretty sure this was it: http://nicoviewer.net/sm26637286

Can't watch it myself right now, though.

Shirousagi
Nov 11, 2015, 02:26 AM
Now I wish that Sega would add optional XH+/SH+ difficulty. Its same as original variants, but without arks buff and with faster, stronger, more varied attacks. And higher HP. Add time limit too. Drops are the same. Also you are limited to 1 moon use per player. Now lets see if anyone will ever play it on a regular basis, outside of people making videos to exhibit their might.

Rakurai
Nov 11, 2015, 03:27 AM
They'd need to nerf healing and reviving for there to be any chance of failing a quest that doesn't have a failure criteria other then the entire MPA dying and not having any scape/halfdolls.

Ezodagrom
Nov 11, 2015, 05:20 AM
This. The buff is definitely too strong, but it shouldn't be removed entirely. The concept is cool, because faster players (supposedly) gain bigger challenge, and weaker ones struggle less.
I'd say, make it take 1.5 times more kills to fill up, then make level boosts at 75% and 90% instead of 33% and 66%. Just that alone can make fight more interesting.
yeah, I agree, as it is the buff starts way too soon.

wefwq
Nov 11, 2015, 06:09 AM
The boss was too easy!
The boss was too hard!
The boss fight was too tedious!
The boss are such a damage sponge!
The boss has OHKO move! It's cheating!
The boss barely hitting me at all!
The boss fight was too short!
The boss attack moveset are lame!
The boss voice are too annoying!

That's it i'm out :^( i'll just going back playing (insert new meme AAA game that just released) until next update!
Spoiler: This person will still actively playing.

Strobo Nights
Nov 11, 2015, 09:20 AM
So much hate... why not try to enjoy the good parts that the eq has to offer?

yoshiblue
Nov 11, 2015, 11:30 AM
A wizard cursed all of our jimmies to stay on eternal over rustle. There is no dreaming, only tears.

Achelousaurus
Nov 11, 2015, 02:42 PM
There's more people in here bitching about people bitching than there are actually people bitching. This shit's gettin meta.

e: and now I'm bitching about people bitching about people bitching fuuuuuuck

e2: Throwin my opinions in: I actually like this EQ as it is pretty much. It's good times imo.
lmao



From what I've seen, most people still don't seem to know how to evade his occasional shout or the white explosion clap.
Maybe most people find it easier to just take the hit and jump back on.
For most people magatsu lags so much there is little you can do. I usually lag so much the game takes too long to update my position while riding his platform and just dumps me in midair from one frame to the next.

Cyclon
Nov 11, 2015, 03:48 PM
I agree, it has problems. It's a little bit too easy to always rely on people challenging themselves in your content instead of actually putting difficulty in it, just as it's naive to even expect most people to do that. One of the things this game has taught me, is that it doesn't happen.
Arks buff is a good concept but comes in too quickly and thus ruins a lot of the challenge, I completely agree about that.

The way some of you, as usual, make it sounds like the existence of these problems is an unforgivable sin, is not something I agree with. I mean I try not to complain about the bitching anymore because doing that feels like I'm not contributing to anything either, but
come on guys



and girls
It's been three years and a half for a lot of us, do we really still need this? Idk.

bhaal
Nov 11, 2015, 04:18 PM
You know, if you think about why PD feels (or actually is) to easy since day one, opposed to Elder or Loser, you may reach an unwanted answer, related to who is the base to each one of those DF manifestations.

KLMS1
Nov 11, 2015, 04:36 PM
Eh, Purplesword Easyman is quite possibly the single wimpiest "small-form" Falz to begin with (pretty sure Apprentice Doppelganger at least tries harder). Villain Forgot To Level Grind I suppose... :wacko:

bhaal
Nov 11, 2015, 04:38 PM
Eh, Purplesword Easyman is quite possibly the single wimpiest "small-form" Falz to begin with (pretty sure Apprentice Doppelganger at least tries harder). Villain Forgot To Level Grind I suppose... :wacko:

And WHO is that Purplesword Easy(wo)man you are talking about, I wonder.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 11, 2015, 04:55 PM
Persona's easy because Persona has the smallest attack range of any boss bar Apprentice (who is about equally easy), which makes it easy for every class to stay out of attack range while pummeling them. Both also have low HP (not even 1m at level 80, only mid-boss with less HP is Goronzoran) to add on to this problem.

And besides that, Persona is actively trying to defeat the player all the way up until 3-7, and has zero control whatsoever over PD. Persona is even the one that uses the instant kill move. If you want a storyline reason for PD being easy, it's much more logical to say that it's because it isn't at full power or occupied with its attempt to consume Naberius. Other problems it has include being in the same quest as Double (as with Profound Invasion, this means that the HP of both bosses is reduced compared to how they would be if fought by themselves to compensate) and of course ARKS Level.

bhaal
Nov 11, 2015, 05:14 PM
And besides that, Persona is actively trying to defeat the player all the way up until 3-7, and has zero control whatsoever over PD. Persona is even the one that uses the instant kill move.
... If you want a storyline reason for PD being easy ...
No, no a storyline reason, think outside game, think :
"is sega trying to trolls us. how?" " is sega trying to tell us what with PD ?" is sega dev team subtle venting frustration and enjoying seeing us complain about a to easy PD?"

LonelyGaruga
Nov 11, 2015, 05:30 PM
You aren't making any sense.


You know, if you think about why PD feels (or actually is) to easy since day one, opposed to Elder or Loser, you may reach an unwanted answer, related to who is the base to each one of those DF manifestations.

Obviously, Persona is the host for PD.


And WHO is that Purplesword Easy(wo)man you are talking about, I wonder.

Persona again.


No, no a storyline reason, think outside game, think :
"is sega trying to trolls us. how?" " is sega trying to tell us what with PD ?" is sega dev team subtle venting frustration and enjoying seeing us complain about a to easy PD?"

This is like...what? Total nonsense.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 11, 2015, 05:37 PM
No, no a storyline reason, think outside game, think :
"is sega trying to trolls us. how?" " is sega trying to tell us what with PD ?" is sega dev team subtle venting frustration and enjoying seeing us complain about a to easy PD?"

Only way this makes sense is if I was wearing a tin foil hat, which I am not.

Houke
Nov 11, 2015, 05:57 PM
you must be playing fallout 4 on survival mode

Saffran
Nov 11, 2015, 06:05 PM
I think he means storyline spoilers [spoiler-box] it's because Persona is yourself and you're weak. One thing is for sure though, if they took some random player and scaled its abilities, some servers would never beat that thing.[/spoiler-box]

Vintasticvin
Nov 11, 2015, 06:51 PM
I think he means storyline spoilers [spoiler-box] it's because Persona is yourself and you're weak. One thing is for sure though, if they took some random player and scaled its abilities, some servers would never beat that thing.[/spoiler-box]

Well yeah its going to be impossible to clear cause majority have gone beyond the difficulty statistical parameters

Houke
Nov 11, 2015, 07:18 PM
they should just make the mpa fight each other.

the only catch is that the player sees all the other players as persona

bhaal
Nov 11, 2015, 07:35 PM
I´m still at work atm, so I don't have all the time to expand this idea all the way but bear with me a little (btw, a little off topic but important for what I´m trying to say, I have been working in attention to customers since I was a kid, almost 3 decades now)

Lets put ourselves in dev team shoes for a moment, until now pso2 have been for them players complaining for everything in-game, things like:
New class is useless
This class is way to OP
X boss is way to hard or have way to much hp
X boss in not a challenge at all
That quest is way to hard
They nerfed this quest now
This tech/pa is useless
This tech/pa is to OP
And so on ...
With almost no one (or no one at all) giving them credit for the good things .

Now , how they can vent a little of the frustration collected for almost 3 and half years now w/o geting fired or hurt the income?

Persona is (in-game story) a future version of the player character and quoting a above post, the weaker of all the DF human forms, and also the most close thing the devs can mess around with the players charas (even if is ONLY in a symbolic way)

Dev team can´t piss in your coffee, spit in your meal or scratch your car paint (RNG in drops or grind don´t count, those are game mechanics aimed to keep the player logging) but they can (in a ballsy way, not a reasoned one) make PD the most showy and flashy DF boss in-game ...and at the same time the most easy and shallow of them (at release time) implying thats what players are to them.
You may say this way to far fetched and you may be right, but this what my instinct and guts have been shouting at me the moment Persona showed in the PD fight in that disappointing form (only a miracle/uber fail of the mpa allow Persona to actually be a threat)

Mattykins
Nov 11, 2015, 08:08 PM
Man, I just want this game to be better :c That's what it boils down to. I like this game and I want it to be better.

lRagna
Nov 11, 2015, 08:16 PM
I just read OP first comment and I can say

Nobody failed Elder
Nobody Failed Luther but people had hard time with Apos
Base Defense 1 was too easy to fail
Base 2 Had a good amount of fail attempts
Base 3 even more than 2
Magatsu people failed it hard at first and nowadays most of the time people beats him before reaching the very first door
AIS vs Magatsu faill attempts still happens but it's pretty rare to happen
PD if you take out the ARKS boost is without doubt the hardest RAID BOSS in the game, you are comparing 2 different EQs wich is the Base Defense vs Raid Bosses wich are 2 different things

(All what I said is based on my experience in Ship 1 wich I play since beta)

Superia
Nov 11, 2015, 08:32 PM
Nah, people got bopped by Luther all the time before his nerf. I hear they still do in some ships.

Mattykins
Nov 11, 2015, 08:34 PM
I saw some Luther fails back in the day, but not anymore.

Honestly, I think part of the problem is that these are bosses who take some figuring out. Finding their weakspots, knowing what to break, etc. After fighting them 50+ times, it comes down to a science and it just becomes another chore, ya know?

LonelyGaruga
Nov 11, 2015, 08:42 PM
People timed out on Loser, but a party wipe never happened. If PD had a time limit of 10 minutes then that would be the surest way to cause party failures, but then too few people would be able to do it.

Jei182
Nov 11, 2015, 09:09 PM
This is why I hate the Profound Darkness: The Quest timing. I don't see a single time according to the EQ schedule that I'll be online to do it. It's not like it was going to drop anyway but no austere weps for me anytime soon.

WEED420BLAZEIT
Nov 11, 2015, 09:28 PM
This is why I hate the Profound Darkness: The Quest timing. I don't see a single time according to the EQ schedule that I'll be online to do it. It's not like it was going to drop anyway but no austere weps for me anytime soon.

don't worry m8 ur not alone, i have 1 heartkey, 2 bloodsomething and 7 phantomopera

no austere for me too and i'm perfectly ok with that

my sides just went to orbit series tbqvhwy fam

ArcaneTechs
Nov 11, 2015, 09:32 PM
This is why I hate the Profound Darkness: The Quest timing. I don't see a single time according to the EQ schedule that I'll be online to do it. It's not like it was going to drop anyway but no austere weps for me anytime soon.
Well they are all based on JP scheduled times, absolutely no have word or say in getting times that are good for us (which the evening times seem very convenient for most).

Kole
Nov 11, 2015, 11:34 PM
20 of those drops down, 80 to go for that +10 second best wep.

Aine
Nov 11, 2015, 11:55 PM
Well they are all based on JP scheduled times, absolutely no have word or say in getting times that are good for us (which the evening times seem very convenient for most).

To be fair there are like two 6AM JST ones this week, and some 11AM ones.

TaigaUC
Nov 12, 2015, 07:52 PM
I've seen Luther wipes maybe 3 - 4 times. I think 2 - 3 of those were from the daggers. And I think one of those was fairly recent.
Of course, people can just run back from ship or use a Scape Doll.

Anyway, I don't feel that wipes have a place in PSO2 EQs because EQs are rare/scheduled and the events only last about 30 minutes.
In other games, AFAIK, wipes aren't a problem because everyone can just run back and keep doing it for as long as they want.
Or until enemies start respawning.

Jei182
Nov 12, 2015, 08:34 PM
Well they are all based on JP scheduled times, absolutely no have word or say in getting times that are good for us (which the evening times seem very convenient for most).

Yeah. It's not really a complaint though. Would just be nice if my schedule allowed for me to make it online earlier than 11pm (or for the timed EQs) on some nights. I think maybe Thanksgiving or something I'm probably just going to take a whole day to be online and catch up, on doing runs and farming etc. I haven't done an all-day fest of any game in awhile now that I think about it.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 12, 2015, 10:13 PM
Yeah. It's not really a complaint though. Would just be nice if my schedule allowed for me to make it online earlier than 11pm (or for the timed EQs) on some nights. I think maybe Thanksgiving or something I'm probably just going to take a whole day to be online and catch up, on doing runs and farming etc. I haven't done an all-day fest of any game in awhile now that I think about it.
well its an MMO, i mean you know what your getting into, if you dont have the time then well heh you know. Either way, JP scheduled times, it means no convenience for West players unless it just happens to coincide good times like the Evening timed ones that happen to be good for us.

If your life schedule just doesnt work around scheduled EQ's well sol i guess, really can't do anything about it, it sucks you have to miss it but nothings going to change in terms of it being convenient outside Japan. Your best bet would be for lots of scheduled EQ's and you happen to be on for the ones coming up

Azure Falcon
Nov 13, 2015, 12:25 PM
For those of you who think Profound Darkness can't kill anyone, I've just had a run where I ended up running out of Moons by the 2nd phase of PD because 2 or 3 people kept dropping dead after every slightly big attack. Worth noting I was running a Techer with full Deband Cut and Deband Toughness, yet even with that and level 3 Arks in play they still kept hitting the dirt.

Took a quick look at the gear of one player afterwards, Ex 3 Hiei unit on a 75 Fo/75 Te with no HP affixes. Cue facepalm.

Tunga
Nov 13, 2015, 12:46 PM
75 Fo/75 Te with no HP affixes.

If he had HP some people would make even more of him.

Ryziou
Nov 13, 2015, 12:55 PM
Took a quick look at the gear of one player afterwards, Ex 3 Hiei unit on a 75 Fo/75 Te with no HP affixes. Cue facepalm.

My Force has no HP affixes D:

Azure Falcon
Nov 13, 2015, 01:22 PM
My Force has no HP affixes D:
Can you dodge? He certainly couldn't.


If he had HP some people would make even more of him.
No, I'm pretty sure he deserves people making fun of him more for running a glass cannon build in XH and then just face tanking everything with 3 affix VH tier units. I'd rather have seen him slap 50HP on each unit so he didn't require a moon each time an XH boss so much as sneezes. Or learn to dodge, which would have been preferable.

Poyonche
Nov 13, 2015, 01:25 PM
I really hate Profound Darkness because instead of my 6 usuals Caligula stones, I got 5.

Totally disappointed.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 13, 2015, 02:45 PM
For those of you who think Profound Darkness can't kill anyone, I've just had a run where I ended up running out of Moons by the 2nd phase of PD because 2 or 3 people kept dropping dead after every slightly big attack. Worth noting I was running a Techer with full Deband Cut and Deband Toughness, yet even with that and level 3 Arks in play they still kept hitting the dirt.

Took a quick look at the gear of one player afterwards, Ex 3 Hiei unit on a 75 Fo/75 Te with no HP affixes. Cue facepalm.
well maybe if psow didnt "recommend" people to stop extending those units at Ex3, maybe they'd last longer.

and HP affixes for FO's lol stay bad

Tunga
Nov 13, 2015, 03:05 PM
75 Fo/75 Te with no HP affixes.
If he had HP some people would make even more of him.

and HP affixes for FO's lol stay bad
And that was fast...


No, I'm pretty sure he deserves people making fun of him more for running a glass cannon build in XH and then just face tanking everything with 3 affix VH tier units. I'd rather have seen him slap 50HP on each unit so he didn't require a moon each time an XH boss so much as sneezes. Or learn to dodge, which would have been preferable.
You missed the point.

Flaoc
Nov 13, 2015, 03:16 PM
if you need hp then 1 hp 2 pp craft problem solved

Azure Falcon
Nov 13, 2015, 03:22 PM
and HP affixes for FO's lol stay bad
Yes, how dare people have just enough HP to survive 1 hit under Deband Cut. Because clearly people never, ever make mistakes.


if you need hp then 1 hp 2 pp craft problem solved
Indeed.



You missed the point.
Probably did, the way it was worded I didn't quite get what you were implying.

SamuiNe
Nov 13, 2015, 04:32 PM
HP affixes for FO's lol stay bad

pls

(past screenshot) [S]Just need warcry
http://puu.sh/l57uX/8e0291e7bd.png[/spoiler-box]

On the other hand, pd doesn't drop any nero for 4 eq in a row so far _(:3」∠)_

LonelyGaruga
Nov 13, 2015, 06:56 PM
4209 HP as a Te/Fo...that would be around the 1700 range for base HP.

That's sad.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 13, 2015, 07:10 PM
Yes, how dare people have just enough HP to survive 1 hit under Deband Cut. Because clearly people never, ever make mistakes.

learn to make fewer ones, you only emphasize my statement

4209 HP as a Te/Fo...that would be around the 1700 range for base HP.

That's sad.
it is very sad indeed

Tunga
Nov 13, 2015, 07:18 PM
Whats the multiplier for Arks HP boost? My fo has reached 1.3K on PD with deband buff( i think it was with it,654 base). But 4.2K.. Not sure my Hu can reach that much.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 13, 2015, 07:22 PM
ARKS Level is a 1.3x modifier at level 2, and a further 1.5x modifier for level 3. This stacks with Deband Toughness (1.25x).

A Force with no HP investment whatsoever has just short of 1.5K HP with all of these buffs accounting for Hunter level cap bonus and female Newman race (lowest HP in the game), having a base HP of 564 (assuming Fo/Te).

nguuuquaaa
Nov 13, 2015, 08:32 PM
Don't you guys forget Guts Drink?
And I thought lv2 is 1.25x and lv3 is further 1.56x for a total of 1.95x?
So 4200HP is possible with a base HP ~1400

LonelyGaruga
Nov 13, 2015, 08:53 PM
Ugh I always forget about Guts Drink's very existence because it's the worst drink you can get (besides Deband). I hope that isn't used because if that is used, then that player is even more of a baddie than I thought.

Anyway, it's 1.3x and 1.5x for a total of 1.95x. Same thing, just different boosts at different levels.

SamuiNe
Nov 13, 2015, 10:04 PM
I did use Guts Drink at the time, but it is only for the purpose of testing how high can my Max HP will be. In addition, I also use Te/Fo in order to guarantee Deband Toughness since I do have Full Support skill tree for Techer.

Outside the Max HP testing, I only use Shifta EX or Premium and play as Fo/Te.

Here is the unit I used for the Max HP testing: (Past screenshot again, and it is different timed ability)
[spoiler-box]http://puu.sh/l0TBm/1f70a4685b.png[/spoiler-box]

Tunga
Nov 13, 2015, 10:21 PM
What're the affix? cant understand JP

SamuiNe
Nov 13, 2015, 10:22 PM
What're the affix? cant understand JP

The unit affixes are Diabo/Tech4/Stam4/AlterMag/NblStamina.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 13, 2015, 11:11 PM
Man, Diabo Soul should be enough by itself...hell, Ideal units by themselves should be enough HP. Why did you affix so much HP?

Meteor Weapon
Nov 13, 2015, 11:41 PM
Reaching the goal for maximum HP I guess, I don't see a problem with that.

dr apocalipsis
Nov 14, 2015, 09:25 AM
1 Nero out of 6 PD runs. This is dantesque.

Does anyone else have such a shitty luck? All my friends get 2 stones usually.

wefwq
Nov 14, 2015, 09:31 AM
1 Nero out of 6 PD runs. This is dantesque.

Does anyone else have such a shitty luck? All my friends get 2 stones usually.
Like 80% chance getting 2 nero out of PD runs, with 250+100+30 RDR up.
If naked with no RDR boosters except daily triboost (30), it's nothing all the time.

TaigaUC
Nov 14, 2015, 09:45 AM
I get random chance of 0, 1 or 2 Nero stones. Had 4 drop once, but that was with a ton of boosts.
Caligula is a random chance of 4 to 6.

Shinmarizu
Nov 14, 2015, 09:52 AM
1 Nero out of 6 PD runs. This is dantesque.

Does anyone else have such a shitty luck? All my friends get 2 stones usually.

It's been 5 consecutive runs of PD with no nero drops here. On 250% RDR plus 100% triboost.

rashoood
Nov 14, 2015, 12:55 PM
its mostly 0 or 1 nero for me with 250% rdr. Very rarely I get 2 T_T

As for elder and Loser, its 1 or 2 mostly. I really hate the nero drop rate

TaigaUC
Nov 14, 2015, 01:14 PM
If you wait I am sure they will add other ways to get Neros.
Like Veil Hunar or whatever will probably drop a ton.
Then there's Bingo, and maybe they'll add some orders that give them. Who knows.

Shinmarizu
Nov 14, 2015, 01:37 PM
We're due to get bingo cards with both Caligula and Nero stones as rewards, if current trends are any indication. That's not going to stop us from trying every possible opportunity.

Magicks
Nov 14, 2015, 01:38 PM
1 Nero out of 6 PD runs. This is dantesque.

Does anyone else have such a shitty luck? All my friends get 2 stones usually.


It's been 5 consecutive runs of PD with no nero drops here. On 250% RDR plus 100% triboost.


its mostly 0 or 1 nero for me with 250% rdr. Very rarely I get 2 T_T

As for elder and Loser, its 1 or 2 mostly. I really hate the nero drop rate

Same. Basically for the past 3-4 PDs, gotten 0 Neros, with 250% boost. : | I hate those things.

Saffran
Nov 14, 2015, 01:53 PM
What was it last time? 30 of each ult stones on the bingo? I wouldn't worry too much.

dr apocalipsis
Nov 14, 2015, 09:19 PM
1 out of 7, this is alienating.

At this point only Elder/Loser gives me stones. I'm not doing any more AQs neither, since I never got a single stone from Hunar/Angel/apprentice lvl80.

SoulSighTy
Nov 14, 2015, 09:40 PM
My brother char just got 3 nero stones from pd eq.
So lucky...

Crevox
Nov 14, 2015, 09:52 PM
The game was never hard. It's fun, but it was never remotely difficult.

Don't try to act like it was.

InvertedWyvern
Nov 14, 2015, 10:07 PM
Are you suppose to get 6 stones from this EQ on XH?

I popped 250% during the "1v1" but many times I have gotten 0-2 stones. Do I need more boosts or something?

Bellion
Nov 14, 2015, 10:13 PM
You get up to 6 Caligula from PD and 3(not sure, but most I've heard about) Nero from Double.
I use 250% throughout the whole battle or when Double begins to fly around the first time just in-case the crystal happens to factor for drops on each boss death.

Doing this, the lowest I've seen is 5 Caligula and 0 Nero personally. Make sure to get Arks Fleet RDR for your units too.

Tunga
Nov 14, 2015, 10:16 PM
I use 250% when persona dies and get the average 5-6 Cali and 0-2 Nero.

Alma
Nov 14, 2015, 10:49 PM
i always got 5-6 nero every PD, never less.
sometimes 1-2 nero drop too but not as consistent as cali stone.

the boost that i use:
250 rdr
100 tri
timed ability rdr arkship
team tree rdr
premium rdr drink
umbla rod.

Gamemako
Nov 14, 2015, 11:13 PM
The game was never hard. It's fun, but it was never remotely difficult.

Don't try to act like it was.

Players often talk about Dark Souls being hard, spending 40 hours to complete it with the tools the designers intended them to use. MMO players spend 4000 hours in the game and talk about how easy it is after 100 times the practice, plus equipment levels vastly above what the content is designed to require.

milranduil
Nov 14, 2015, 11:14 PM
Players often talk about Dark Souls being hard, spending 40 hours to complete it with the tools the designers intended them to use. MMO players spend 4000 hours in the game and talk about how easy it is after 100 times the practice, plus equipment levels vastly above what the content is designed to require.

difficult and tedious are not synonmous

LonelyGaruga
Nov 14, 2015, 11:41 PM
Dark Souls, and any game for that matter, stops being hard with sufficient practice, so bringing that up is pretty ridiculous.

wefwq
Nov 15, 2015, 01:07 AM
Just go play 100% Orange Juice, dude.

dr apocalipsis
Nov 15, 2015, 06:56 AM
How many of the cursed ones use english Tweaker?

I remember PSOv2 neglecting rares to people using bootloaders.

Ryziou
Nov 15, 2015, 07:04 AM
You get up to 6 Caligula from PD and 3(not sure, but most I've heard about) Nero from Double.
I use 250% throughout the whole battle or when Double begins to fly around the first time just in-case the crystal happens to factor for drops on each boss death.

Doing this, the lowest I've seen is 5 Caligula and 0 Nero personally. Make sure to get Arks Fleet RDR for your units too.

3 Neros is a definite. I got 3 of them last PD. Not sure if you can go any higher as getting Neros from PD is rare anyway.

KazukiQZ
Nov 15, 2015, 07:23 AM
How many of the cursed ones use english Tweaker?

I remember PSOv2 neglecting rares to people using bootloaders.
It's all RNG. I use tweaker all the time and got Neros in the range of 0~2. Never got 3 at once, but heard some of my friend got it.

Raujinn
Nov 15, 2015, 08:32 AM
I run permanent 350% + premium on it and I haven't gotten a Nero from Profound Darkness this week yet.

Not been much random Falz/Loser this week on Ship 2. :c

dr apocalipsis
Nov 15, 2015, 04:20 PM
1 out of 8, If I dont get a stone next PD I'm quitting until January.

No sense to keep playing a game than basically soft banned you.

Flaoc
Nov 15, 2015, 04:26 PM
got a 6 cali 2 nero from pd on just 250 alone its pure rng breh

sometimes you get 5/0 even with a 250 (also happened to me before)

dr apocalipsis
Nov 15, 2015, 04:39 PM
I got 2 neros my first run, then got 1 stone 3 more times. NOTHING else ever since.

At this point only Falz, that apparently have a 100% rate or close with 350% + umbla+units+tree+drink+daily, gives me neros.

N O T H I N G E L S E

Rng my ass, always the same people getting the good stuff. I can accept not getting a random invade drop, but I won't not being able even to farm stones as everyone else. People out there getting 3 or 4 stones while I keep getting none run after run. No Falz? No stones. There are people that actually got as many neros as me just in 2 freaking runs.

KLMS1
Nov 15, 2015, 05:01 PM
Time to sacrifice innocent barnyard animals to appease the wrath of RNGesus then.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 15, 2015, 05:18 PM
Just wait for Christmas bingo for Nero stones.

They aren't even supposed to be that common from Double + PD anyway.

wahahaha
Nov 15, 2015, 05:20 PM
Kuronia Double dropped around 4 nero stones so thats your best bet

BlakLanner
Nov 15, 2015, 07:15 PM
I must echo the sentiments about how it might be better that this event is easy. At the most recent event, my MPA was horrible. It took us 26 minutes to clear it. I ran out of moons raising the fallen. I am far from an elite player but I would like to think of myself as at least competent. The rest of the team was pathetic. If I had lost my chance at the stones because the others cannot even manage to tie their own shoes, I would be rather upset.

wefwq
Nov 15, 2015, 08:24 PM
Kuronia Double dropped around 4 nero stones so thats your best bet
How much rare booster you use for it?

Achelousaurus
Nov 15, 2015, 08:25 PM
How many of the cursed ones use english Tweaker?

I remember PSOv2 neglecting rares to people using bootloaders.
But I got 3 gryphon rares from the last ToT4.
That's just nonsense.

Rakurai
Nov 15, 2015, 10:51 PM
Kuronia Double dropped around 4 nero stones so thats your best bet

That doesn't sound right to me when considering that higher leveled enemies are supposed to have better rates on their drops, and the ToT 4 Double barely dropped stones at all even with max boosts.

I've never seen anyone report multiple Nero drops from a Hunar form Falz in general.

Saagonsa
Nov 15, 2015, 11:46 PM
I got 2 neros multiple times from 50 risk hunar in ruins AQ. Most I've ever seen from a non-DF form, though

red1228
Nov 20, 2015, 09:39 AM
Ohmyfuckingawd I did not know this was possible on a quest that rewards you, the longer you take. What the actual fuck, Vita players. http://puu.sh/lsia8.png

BlakLanner
Nov 20, 2015, 09:43 AM
Sadly it can and does happen. Makes you wonder how they managed to power on their gaming units.

Lostbob117
Nov 20, 2015, 09:44 AM
It's probably better that way.

dr apocalipsis
Nov 20, 2015, 05:55 PM
Ohmyfuckingawd I did not know this was possible on a quest that rewards you, the longer you take. What the actual fuck, Vita players. http://puu.sh/lsia8.png

I would start ddosing ship2 on my own if that ever happens to me.

Saffran
Nov 20, 2015, 06:13 PM
Pull their weight and stop complaining. Some people solo XH PD in less time than that.

Azure Falcon
Nov 20, 2015, 07:14 PM
Ohmyfuckingawd I did not know this was possible on a quest that rewards you, the longer you take. What the actual fuck, Vita players. http://puu.sh/lsia8.png

Good lord, you could probably throw the average ship 2 SH MPA into XH PD and still finish the EQ quicker than that.

TaigaUC
Nov 21, 2015, 12:58 AM
I remember PSOv2 neglecting rares to people using bootloaders.

On the last livestream, I think SGNM said something like, "there are other calculations going on that we can't reveal".
I strongly suspect rare drop rate increases if you haven't been playing much.
That's from experience and people I know.

You could say it's just RNG, but this is my experience:
An account I barely play on suddenly gets a string of uber rare 12 or 13 stars in a row.
The others that I often play on get nothing, still get nothing.
A friend who doesn't play much logs in, gets a ton of 12 and 13 stars in a row.
When they play more, nothing drops.

The way I see it, if the game did not adjust rare drop rate based on how often a person is online, then people who play 24/7 would be able to farm tons of uber rares.
Meanwhile, people who aren't online much would have a much less chance of getting any of those uber rares.
SEGA has shown they care about the number of rare drops distributed within a certain period of time.
They don't want the server to get flooded with uber rare drops either.
So I think it makes sense that they limit rare drop based on how often a player is online.
That's not to say it's a huge influence, it could just be a minor adjustment.
Theoretically, if it does increase the rare drop chance, then boosts would have a larger effect if you haven't played for a long while.

It still boils down to a matter of RNG. Either way, it's not a guaranteed thing.
What's guaranteed is that if you keep trying, you'll at least get stones that you can use to exchange.

Anyway, take all of that as you will.

Rakurai
Nov 21, 2015, 03:22 AM
My slowest PD kill was 12 minutes.

Then again, I've never tried playing on a Vita block.

ArcaneTechs
Nov 21, 2015, 03:34 AM
[SPOILER-BOX]On the last livestream, I think SGNM said something like, "there are other calculations going on that we can't reveal".
I strongly suspect rare drop rate increases if you haven't been playing much.
That's from experience and people I know.

You could say it's just RNG, but this is my experience:
An account I barely play on suddenly gets a string of uber rare 12 or 13 stars in a row.
The others that I often play on get nothing, still get nothing.
A friend who doesn't play much logs in, gets a ton of 12 and 13 stars in a row.
When they play more, nothing drops.

The way I see it, if the game did not adjust rare drop rate based on how often a person is online, then people who play 24/7 would be able to farm tons of uber rares.
Meanwhile, people who aren't online much would have a much less chance of getting any of those uber rares.
SEGA has shown they care about the number of rare drops distributed within a certain period of time.
They don't want the server to get flooded with uber rare drops either.
So I think it makes sense that they limit rare drop based on how often a player is online.
That's not to say it's a huge influence, it could just be a minor adjustment.
Theoretically, if it does increase the rare drop chance, then boosts would have a larger effect if you haven't played for a long while.

It still boils down to a matter of RNG. Either way, it's not a guaranteed thing.
What's guaranteed is that if you keep trying, you'll at least get stones that you can use to exchange.

Anyway, take all of that as you will.[/SPOILER-BOX]
You know I've always suspected this for a VERY long time, I always felt it worked this way in the background because Sega just has to have hidden things running in the background but I mean for gods sake, Sega might as well implement the well rested bonuses that other MMO's do but now a days, who rests in the MMO life?

dr apocalipsis
Nov 21, 2015, 04:31 AM
Taking into account that the only time I got a couple of good rods was inmediately after I took a long hiatus of several months, I think that is the best theory possible.

Z-0
Nov 21, 2015, 04:33 AM
I can believe it. My friend once came back after a year+ hiatus, found Ares Rifle after about 5 Angas.

Then found Launcher very shortly afterwards and another Rifle.

Poyonche
Nov 21, 2015, 04:49 AM
I stopped playing for a month and guess what, Magical Piece everywhere~.

But no 13*.

Raujinn
Nov 21, 2015, 09:29 AM
It sounds plausible, but I would be wary of the trap of confirmation bias...

Naoya Kiriyama
Nov 21, 2015, 10:28 AM
On the last livestream, I think SGNM said something like, "there are other calculations going on that we can't reveal".
I strongly suspect rare drop rate increases if you haven't been playing much.
That's from experience and people I know.

You could say it's just RNG, but this is my experience:
An account I barely play on suddenly gets a string of uber rare 12 or 13 stars in a row.
The others that I often play on get nothing, still get nothing.
A friend who doesn't play much logs in, gets a ton of 12 and 13 stars in a row.
When they play more, nothing drops.

The way I see it, if the game did not adjust rare drop rate based on how often a person is online, then people who play 24/7 would be able to farm tons of uber rares.
Meanwhile, people who aren't online much would have a much less chance of getting any of those uber rares.
SEGA has shown they care about the number of rare drops distributed within a certain period of time.
They don't want the server to get flooded with uber rare drops either.
So I think it makes sense that they limit rare drop based on how often a player is online.
That's not to say it's a huge influence, it could just be a minor adjustment.
Theoretically, if it does increase the rare drop chance, then boosts would have a larger effect if you haven't played for a long while.

It still boils down to a matter of RNG. Either way, it's not a guaranteed thing.
What's guaranteed is that if you keep trying, you'll at least get stones that you can use to exchange.

Anyway, take all of that as you will.
Assuming pso2 droprates follows the usual algorythm for droprates in game, it doesn't work like that. But it's true the part of having really great drops in a row it's part of it. That is because RNG in computing is not true RNG but pseudo-RNG. That means the row of numbers you get in a droprate follows a sequence that refreshes every X time, meaning for example if you have a sequence which includes really low numbers, chances are you'll be getting the most rares overall.

I believe that the algorhythms can be manipulated (you know, the RDR do work when you're doing an EQ with high variable loot like PD or PI while it doesn't really work in low variable loot like Magatsu) because it adds some multiplier for it. Thus, for that reason is why SEGA is silent with droprates. If anyone knows about Fire Emblem community, people who play older games (GBA for example) know that RNG can be manipulated to achieve the most optimal setup to get the maximum stats possible from a level up, or to show an enemy with a extremely rare item. If I were to believe that, that would mean if the droprate is known to the public, would be far easier to farm the item you would really want. Or you could just manipulate your behaviour to have more rng success with drops.

Lastly there's a common misconception about the nature of rng which is someting I call as "blessed acounts" and "cursed accounts" which means that the constant rolling of numbers and having a sequence of them, makes it seem like it's having a pattern to it, very much alike working on the very same number sequence everytime. People usually tend of believe that's the reason why some people get a bunch of *13 in a small frame of time and others don't get anything for weeks and months. To put my personal example: Most *13 I got from Gal were pretty much in 2 different spans of 24 hours (I got 5 *13 in 24 hours in beach wars and 4 *13 in 24 hours in Kuron EQ)

If by any chance, being offline for a while does really modify the rng, it would be a huge kick in the playerbase because that would be a huge punishment for dedicated players and I hope that's not the case.

BlakLanner
Nov 21, 2015, 10:41 AM
It would be a kick to dedicated players a bit but it would also be a boon for those who were gone and need a way to catch up. I would think that Sega would be more concerned about getting those players back instead of maintaining those of us who are already addicted/devoted to the game.

Achelousaurus
Nov 21, 2015, 12:39 PM
Assuming pso2 droprates follows the usual algorythm for droprates in game, it doesn't work like that. But it's true the part of having really great drops in a row it's part of it. That is because RNG in computing is not true RNG but pseudo-RNG. That means the row of numbers you get in a droprate follows a sequence that refreshes every X time, meaning for example if you have a sequence which includes really low numbers, chances are you'll be getting the most rares overall.
Not quite.
This is a popular method but by no means it's "RNG in computing, period".
In the first place, mmos don't use it cause hacking is a big concern, many people ry to hack an mmo and stuff like this would get exploited in no time.
Just look at FFXII where people found the lists and now you can get whatever you want if you peform the right actions to get to the correct part of the list.
FFXII just can get away with it cause it's a single player game.

TaigaUC
Nov 21, 2015, 03:19 PM
I've heard that pseudo RNG thing before.
I've had past issues with RNG giving the same damn result over and over and over, so I've always doubted computing RNG.

But yeah, I dunno.
I'm under the impression that if you're aiming for a specific drop, if you're not getting anything worthwhile during that time, you're probably better off waiting until it's easier to get.
Otherwise you'll end up wasting a ton of time and probably never get anything. Had that happen to me tons of times in lots of games.
It's especially true in PSO2 when stuff always eventually becomes easier to get, without becoming completely obsolete unlike other games.

Gamemako
Nov 22, 2015, 09:54 AM
Ohmyfuckingawd I did not know this was possible on a quest that rewards you, the longer you take. What the actual fuck, Vita players. http://puu.sh/lsia8.png

I just got done with one that took just under 29 minutes. Naturally, we failed the DPS check, and I ran out of moons before human form (probably should have saved one for the persona wipe I knew to be coming, but whatever). I kept trying to support them with heals and buffs, but that strategy clearly was not paying off.

TaigaUC
Nov 22, 2015, 11:20 AM
Earlier, I had a PUG run that glitched several times, allowing us to skip a ton of lengthy cutscenes.
Someone somehow activated the PD console early enough that the rest of us teleported immediately after the Double destruction cutscene.
PD itself skipped some of its form transformations and just went straight into the next attack.
We saved so much time we came in 24th. My previous best was 36th or so.
The next run had a laggy glitch where PD thought we hadn't dealt enough damage and released second wave of eyeballs, then quit mid-way into Persona summon.

On less fortunate runs, PD or Double literally keep running away repeatedly and there is no opportunity for attack (for non Tech users anyway).
So yeah, that's what I mean by random messing with the challenge of finishing early.

Z-0
Nov 22, 2015, 11:27 AM
One person can stay on campship and then warp down during the cutscene between Double/PD and activate the console early.

Source: Did it earlier...

I don't know any other tricks though, not really kept up with things.

TaigaUC
Nov 22, 2015, 11:29 AM
Haha. That's a funny trick. I was thinking maybe you can "move your character and activate the console blindly" during the cutscene or something.
So I guess what you could do is hang around until the flying phase, then strip your units and suicide to the campship. Or just suicide some time before Double dies.

I wonder if there's a way to reliably skip the transformation cutscenes.
I was able to get 4 runs in (ran a friend's character) thanks to that fast initial run.

TaigaUC
Nov 22, 2015, 03:50 PM
Thought I'd try killing Loser to see how many Neros I'd get.
3 kills, 1 Nero. Not great.

Agastya
Nov 22, 2015, 04:18 PM
I dislike Double and PD for the same reason I dislike Magastu: If I'm not playing Techer, then I have no fucking idea what is going on.

Elder and Loser are both large bosses that you can't fit their entire bodies into the camera, but you can tell what they're preparing to do because their attacks have clear tells and are accompanied by distinct voice cues.

Double does nothing but fly around and fucking laugh all day. There is nothing distinct other than a quick spin move that sends me flying. I have no idea how I need to get ready to dodge for anything other than the "big" attacks which are just supposed to kill you, but then the little attacks that just send you flying become infuriating. PD has no tells until it's about to die due to entering its last phases, and talking about Magatsu's magical four hitbox roar is beating a dead horse at this point.

I don't know why anybody ever questioned AIS Magatsu being able to teleport, though. It does that a lot in the first phase already.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 22, 2015, 04:31 PM
All of those things have tells for everything. Wow. Just for the ones named in particular, Magatsu roar has it lean backwards before emitting the roar (and most certainly does not have four hitboxes), and Magatsu can only teleport in phase 2-3, which it does after waving its arms a little bit. If Magatsu teleports at any other time, it is lag induced.

It sounds more like the problem is that you're unfamiliar with the tells, which functionally has no difference from something that has no tells at all. Double and PD are pretty generous about everything they do, all things considered. Particularly PD, since at any given time each of its non-bit attacks in phase 1-2 have several seconds of warning. It would be a good idea to watch some videos of their fights and observe each attack so that you can have a better understanding of how they fight before facing them again.

If there's any attacks in particular that you find problematic, then you can ask about them and get advice on what to do about them, too.

Achelousaurus
Nov 22, 2015, 04:54 PM
What I also hate about Double / PD is that they are intentionally designed to troll us.
I don't even mean the point that you only have a couple of seconds at a time to attack them so that burst damage can only be rarely used, I mean thing like Double pretending to give you those 4 seconds to attack it's leg weakspot, then sucking fuck you and a second later it retracts the legs just enough to be out of melee range. Then a second after that kicks a bit so the leg is kinda in the same position but if you were still close, you took damage and got interrupted.

And you can't tell when this is happening cause the fight is a total clusterfuck, especially with red goo pools and red circles covering the ground while toys and cars swarm around and Double itself is blocking half your screen.

And then PD does BS like flying in one direction just to troll and rapidly change direction so unless you follow it's every move (and god forbid heal or change weapon or anything else) you miss it and then can't find it again cause in half a second it comes from a completely different side with its flyby attack.

This EQ is Sega telling us to go fuck ourselves for not playing the game they want us to play it.
Sega is totally overwhelmed by the concept of game design and has no idea how to change that the game and especially the playerbase are not behaving the way they want.

Agastya
Nov 22, 2015, 05:08 PM
Magatsu roar has it lean backwards before emitting the roar50/50 of roar or sky lasers, i've gotten used to dodging it but it still catches me when i'm trying to jump back up at times and i go flying back down


(and most certainly does not have four hitboxes)when you guard/dodge an attack at any point the entire attack hitbox is gone for its duration, you can step through roar when at magatsu's belly and if you jump up you'll get hit by the hitbox at his face and go flying off


and Magatsu can only teleport in phase 2-3, which it does after waving its arms a little bit. If Magatsu teleports at any other time, it is lag inducedit always teleports. it teleported in their demo stream. it may be lag based but its still teleporting. destroy magatsu


It sounds more like the problem is that you're unfamiliar with the tells, which functionally has no difference from something that has no tells at all.highly possible. i dont log in for magatsu nor pd anymore because i spend more time being frustrated than i do having fun, but i'm considering just playing te for these jerks now since sega has me by the balls.


Double and PD are pretty generous about everything they do, all things considered. Particularly PD, since at any given time each of its non-bit attacks in phase 1-2 have several seconds of warning. It would be a good idea to watch some videos of their fights and observe each attack so that you can have a better understanding of how they fight before facing them again.thats the thing though. i literally cannot parse what is going on in these fights from most recordings because there so many flashy effects with shaders. it doesnt help that i dont have any depth perception, either. having to play shaderless compounds this.

i could see one of pd's eyes just kind of twitching round and i'm not sure if its going to just grab me or what. i can do obvious stuff like "oh, here comes a sweeping laser! better dodge that!" and then the later attacks where pd just puts its hand on the platform in a huge "hit me!" sign but anything else is just a crapshoot.


If there's any attacks in particular that you find problematic, then you can ask about them and get advice on what to do about them, too.just tell me what the tell for double's spin is. i've just been using superarmor to deal with it. sometimes i luck out and block it with dead approach. i dunno.

hoangsea
Nov 22, 2015, 05:23 PM
new bosses = more easy
sega logic 2015 :-?

LonelyGaruga
Nov 22, 2015, 08:54 PM
50/50 of roar or sky lasers, i've gotten used to dodging it but it still catches me when i'm trying to jump back up at times and i go flying back down

The arm lasers (as in they are made of arms) have a different tell that's faster than roar. The way it raises its arms is different, and it doesn't move forward and then back in the same way. Another thing you can do is listen to the SEs. The roar has a distinct sound during the startup before the actual attack that Magatsu makes only for that attack. Magatsu also regularly roars after performing attacks for quick trials, so by assuming that it'll perform the attack soon you can be ready to react to it.

I've never had any reason to move after blocking/dodging Magatsu's roars, but I suppose that each of the main heads would logically generate roars individually and thus create four hitboxes, one for each one (which is actually pretty smart game design imo, much better than the one hitbox for the entire roar that I had thought prior). Now thel question I have is what you did to find that out and for what purpose, so that a better alternative could be identified (although just waiting a little bit should be fine). Unless it was just an incidental thing.

If you have a Fo/Te, play that instead of Techer main. Fo/Te is easily the best damage dealing class for this quest. I wouldn't even bother as Te/Br because Banish Arrow has poor compatibility with Double's tongue weak point, as a good MPA makes Double retract its tongue before Banish Arrow gets the chance to explode, causing it to vanish. Anything else Techer can do is inferior to almost all classes. Te/Gu is valuable for organized runs, but not as much for pugs.

Breaking down each of PD's moves...

[SPOILER-BOX]Infection bits: The four infection bits have three moves each.

Scissor/Pincer: One is a grabbing move, one extends itself continuously in three motions while attacking, and the last creates a wall similar to those in TD3. The wall creating move is incapable of harming players. Both of the scissor's moves can be avoided by standing to the side of it. If you get caught by the grabbing move, it is possible to escape through button mashing (the attack does low damage anyway though, unlike most grab attacks in this game). The pincers do a couple clicks before attacking.

Eye: All three are projectile attacks. One fires tracking spheres that inflict Bind, one fires several sweeping lasers, and one fires a barrage of spheres that inflict Injury. All three can be avoided consistently by standing to the side of the eye except for the tracking spheres, which will home in on players based on who has the highest hate, in descending order. If one targets you, assuming you have Super Treatment, Anti to tank it for the free PP regen. Using Anti after either sphere attack is a good idea in case anyone gets hit by them. The eye gathers energy before attacking, with different patterns being formed to tell what attack is going to come out.

Scythes: One is a projectile attack fired from one scythe, one is a continous slashing attack far away from the scythes, and one is a close-ranged slicing attack. Of these, only the close-ranged one can hit if you stand to the side of the scythes. The projectile one is capable of hitting you if you are directly in front of the scythe, but it does low damage. The continuous slashing attack won't hit you if you're close to it, which you would normally be anyway. The projectile attack causes the firing scythe to glow before launching the attack, the continuous slashing has the scythes extend far upwards before attacking, and the close-ranged slicing has the scythes extend a little bit with a distinct curved angle.

Hole/mouth: One is a highly-damaging but short-ranged roar, one is a suction attack followed by an energy explosion, and one is a straightforward lunging attack. The roar will probably kill you if it connects and comes out quickly, but because it's close-ranged staying a little distant from it will avoid it. The vacuum attack is straightforward, just get away or dodge before it explodes. The lunge is easy to see coming because it twists itself while turning to face a direction before lunging. It's fast, but unique enough that you'll immediately know it's going to do this when it happens, making avoiding it easy.

For PD's main attacks:

When PD rises above the ship with its stem facing down, it will stab the ship downwards. The affected area has a circular coloration showing the affected area. It's possible to attack PD as it removes itself from the ship, but it's more or less a waste of PP to do this.

When PD approaches the ship sideways while keeping a shortish distance, it'll swipe the ship with its stem. It'll turn a bit diagonal while prepping the attack as well, for an easier tell. I haven't tested to see if this can simply be jumped or not, but without an opportunity to counterattack, there's no real reason to.

When PD goes into the distance of the field, it has two different attacks depending on its flight pattern. If it quickly rushes backwards with its stem facing the ship, it will perform a rushing attack similar to the one in the opening, with all its petals emitting energy like a spear. If PD instead has its side facing the ship, it will fly in a wide circle around the field and launch debris at the ship. The rush attack can be avoided by getting out of the way of its flight, same deal with the debris. The debris will mark colored circles on the ship before colliding, but if you stand between the circles and the debris, you'll get hit anyway because they're volatile up until after they've hit the ship. In order to actually avoid the attack, put yourself parallel from the debris and where it's going to hit.

Because these two attacks involve PD flying both off-screen and off the mini-map radar, it's imperative to keep a close eye on it so that you'll be able to react to the attacks. If you lose track of PD when it does its rushing attack, it's very likely that you'll be unable to dodge it unless it isn't hitting your area. This applies to PD's attacks in general if you lose track of it, but the rush attack is particularly bad because it's likely to OHKO you and comes out much faster in the 2nd phase. As such, keep PD visible through camera movements whenever you can.

During its 2nd phase, PD will occasionally fire lasers from its core while its bits are attacking. These lasers have little wind-up and cause massive damage so it's a good idea not to stand in front of the core, although you have no reason to do this in the first place since the infection bits are what you want to be attacking.

Some minor projectiles, along with tornadoes in 2nd phase, also appear as attacks, but these are pretty basic and negligible both in terms of threat and damage so they aren't really worth covering.

During the 3rd phase, PD will launch bits that attack by firing lasers. They can attack individually and in different formations, but only have 94K HP each. Wide-ranged attacks can only hit them one at a time, so it's preferable to concentrate on one at a time. PD will also perform its own attacks at the same time.

PD's hand slams and arm swings come out in successions of 1-3. As far as I can tell, PD always aims at the person with the most hate, but I can't confirm that due to hate being invisible. I'm just basing on pug runs where I'm usually targeted, and targeted by every attack when I am targeted, so it seems like a solid confirmation. Anyway, the hand slams have precise hitboxes, while the arm swings will generate an explosion in the area it went over after each one. Usually when PD does 3 attacks in a row, it'll follow up with an energy attack that hits the half of the stage closest to it, then often follows that by placing one hand on the ship and firing projectiles with the other hand. The attack it performs is dependent on which hand it uses to fire. If PD leans to the left (its right) and attacks with its right hand, it fires scattered lasers, whereas the opposite fires scattered sphere projectiles. The attacks are nearly identical in terms of range. The attacks are capable of hitting players that are attacking the hand on the ship, but PD has strange aiming priorities for this attack that are difficult to explain. It's targeted to the person with the most hate, but sometimes fires in ways that won't hit that player. The important thing is simply that it's not safe to keep attacking PD's hand relentlessly, so caution should be used.

When PD vacuums players to the center of the area with a giant gravity ball and detonates it to continuously fire pillars of energy on the stage, despite the appearance of the attack, it only consists of one hitbox. Get hit by it and the rest of the attack cannot harm you, as you were already hit by it. This makes breaking the rest of the bits much easier, but you aren't likely to see this attack ever so it's likely to be a non-issue. It does do a lot of damage, but you're likely to have ARKS level 2-3 by the time it's performed, if you do see it.

For the Persona segment, Persona will mostly toss spheres of energy at you while performing Satellite Cannon and Over End variants. The energy spheres are quite accurate, but watching which hand Persona throws them with can help identify the direction they're being thrown from and avoid it. The Satellite Cannon attack can be avoided simply by moving, and Over End is just the last part of it and rather slow so it's easy to avoid.

I have never seen a pug run where PD survived after the Persona segment's resulting downtime period, so if you do see that, you're unfortunately on your own. As a general rule of thumb for the whole fight, I personally recommend attacking the infection bits from the side, away from the core, so as to make it easier to avoid all of the attacks performed. During phase 3, just focus on the bits when PD isn't attacking and it should be easy to break them all within 1-2 of PD's attack sequences. After that it should transition to Persona for an easy clear from there. [/SPOILER-BOX]

For Double's spin attack, it retracts its legs close to its body before spinning, more closely than for any of its other actions. The easiest way to avoid it is to simply stand underneath Double, where this wouldn't be visible in the first place, though. The attack only hits around Double and has a large blind point underneath it. Double does move a little bit while performing this attack, which presents a problem after its tongue becomes permanently exposed as Double has a second stage in its rage mode (1st is at 50% HP message), which is very wild in its movements. You're unlikely to see this in pug runs, but if you do, Double moves enough while spinning that it's unlikely you can securely utilize that blindspot. On the plus side, the fight's almost over with so you're not likely to have to deal with this for long.

Hope all of that helps.

Agastya
Nov 22, 2015, 09:18 PM
It was incidental that I found out, yes. I was on the belly platform and dodged the roar and proceeded to jump up to resume attacking the head platform, but then went flying off. I didn't actually know that it usually roared after etrial attacks so that'll cut down on some frustration.

The PD and Double information is also useful as well, thank you.

I just want to say though that for big boss EQs, I pub with at least two other friends that I know are capable of doing damage just fine, so I opt to play TE/HU with defensive investment and spam Zanverse on people as that contributes far more damage than many other things I could be doing as a Techer for far less effort. I haven't bothered buying the Ancient Oath bow for TE/BR shenanigans since I just don't solo on that class, so it doesn't really fit any niche I need.

Techer main contributes a lot of damage by just existing due to all the Shifta skills and Zanverse, and also mitigates a lot of damage as well due to Deband skills and having more time to use Resta or Megiverse. Somebody has to heal people after they get hit, and it's a lot better if it's somebody who can throw down a Zanverse and then stop to heal instead of one of the Forces or Bouncers having to stop and heal someone.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 22, 2015, 09:36 PM
My main issue with Techer main in pugs is that you only need one for Strike/Deband/Zanverse, and any others are a waste of potential damage, so Fo/Te is the safest option to play. A tech using Techer can make up for this though, as PD is mostly Ragrants and composite techs, and Te/Br and Te/Fi possess solid light tech damage. Certainly not Fo/Te tier, but they'll be doing more damage than most other classes can.

Te/Hu is kinda shit for this EQ though. Outside of Zanverse you have no real way of doing damage, and it's really not that great unless at least half the MPA is inside your Zanverse field, which can't be guaranteed.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Nov 22, 2015, 09:57 PM
This EQ, and double especially, favors most things not melee in general, especially Fos...

Aine
Nov 22, 2015, 10:04 PM
One person can stay on campship and then warp down during the cutscene between Double/PD and activate the console early.

Source: Did it earlier...

I don't know any other tricks though, not really kept up with things.

We did this to get sub-4 minutes but decided it was close to bug abuse, so we're sealing it until official word from SEGA...

Without the trick it's still possible to just barely get sub-4 but you'd have to perfectly execute the strategy.

Agastya
Nov 22, 2015, 10:08 PM
My main issue with Techer main in pugs is that you only need one for Strike/Deband/Zanverse, and any others are a waste of potential damage, so Fo/Te is the safest option to play. A tech using Techer can make up for this though, as PD is mostly Ragrants and composite techs, and Te/Br and Te/Fi possess solid light tech damage. Certainly not Fo/Te tier, but they'll be doing more damage than most other classes can.

Te/Hu is kinda shit for this EQ though. Outside of Zanverse you have no real way of doing damage, and it's really not that great unless at least half the MPA is inside your Zanverse field, which can't be guaranteed.

I'd rather take the risk of there being two Techers in a randomly composed MPA than have no Techers present at all. A lot of people think that way about TE and in pubs (at least on Ship 4, I don't know what happens on 2) there's a chance that you won't see a TE at all if you aren't playing it yourself. In a perfect world, none of this would be a problem and we'd all have organized MPAs and we'd all have perfect affixes on our dream weapons, but this isn't a perfect world and you have to play safely with pubs at times.

As it stands, we do so much damage already that as long as at least eight of the people present are capable of dealing good damage, having two or even three Techers present isn't really going to hurt things.. unless maybe you're trying to double dip the EQ, in which case that's more of your own problem, and if you're trying to rank, which you're in an organized party to begin with and if you aren't you can't really complain about what you got.

I just sub HU for stuff like this since any time I'm knocked down is time other players are knocked down, and if I'm knocked down then nobody is healing them. Massive Hunter is just an insurance policy to keep everybody else alive.

I like to heal things.

BlakLanner
Nov 23, 2015, 12:05 AM
It is the same thing every EQ has with Rangers. We all really want to see one but too many tend to conflict with each other. Personally, as long as Ilbarta annhilates Double and PD is vulnerable to Ragrants/Banish, I will be coming on TE/BR every time.

Rakurai
Nov 23, 2015, 05:20 AM
I'm really starting to wish the Ilbarta stacks were handled on a per player basis, because I see way too many poorly geared FOs stealing the last hit from me.

EDIT: Just had my first fail at the final phase of the fight due to two idiots immediately dropping group at the start because no weak bullet, and I didn't feel imitating them.

Achelousaurus
Nov 23, 2015, 10:44 AM
Te/Hu is kinda shit for this EQ though. Outside of Zanverse you have no real way of doing damage, and it's really not that great unless at least half the MPA is inside your Zanverse field, which can't be guaranteed.
During Double you have a hard time covering enough people but it's easy to cover almost everyone during PD.

BTW, what's the best way to deal damage to Double besides Ilbarta?
I found that Ragrants is too slow to be of much use and Ilgrants is nice but can be iffy, I get the feeling the legs are a big obstacle (piercing arrow doesn't seem to get through them either).
And if the AI luck is bad, Double can spend a lot of time outside lockon range.

Is there even a point in doing this eq on another class than FoTe for damage?

GHNeko
Nov 23, 2015, 12:25 PM
Man. This thread was a wild ride.

TaigaUC
Nov 23, 2015, 01:13 PM
AFAIK all of the attacks for Double and PD have tells.
Double's are just kinda ambiguous, and I've been lazy to write them down.

Double rundown:
- At the start, stomps forward 3-5 times (may depend on multi positioning).
- After that, it will randomly pick from a variety of attacks, all of which have wind up motions, rise up before stomp motions, etc.
- If a leg moves backwards, it is going to thrust forwards.
- If the legs all rotate horizontally slightly as if winding up, it will spin. Note that the spin range increases, so you need to stand further away than the initial collision range.
- The safe time to attack the legs is when they "settle down" and tilt a 45 degree angle forwards. They will not move for a long while, but Double may spawn cars that get in your way.
- If all the legs seem to hop a short distance away, they will always go into a row attack after.
- Mid-map row will always be red lasers, which are so fast that melee won't have time to get a strike in before they reset to non-row positions.
- Side-map row will always be the walls. You can step dash through the walls if you time it right.
- Sometimes Double will start running away repeatedly for a long time just before legs are broken, and then switch the leg weak points because they didn't break in time.
- If the above happens, don't worry because the damage to each leg carries over (ie. faster break the next time they're revealed).
- If you get panicked, you can still use lock-on and travel PAs to get to targets quickly.
- Massive Hunter is really great for Double in general. I pop it at the start and before it dies, so that I won't get knocked away while attacking the last tongue.
- I think the red circle trails on the ground are for the flying fatso toys.

Tl;dr - When fighting Double, just wait around until the legs stop moving, ie. are tilting forwards. Then you can attack freely. Otherwise standing in the middle of all legs is probably a good fallback position.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 23, 2015, 01:26 PM
BTW, what's the best way to deal damage to Double besides Ilbarta?

And if the AI luck is bad, Double can spend a lot of time outside lockon range.

Is there even a point in doing this eq on another class than FoTe for damage?

Ilbarta is the only thing you really need. Ragrants on the tongue when it's exposed is an option, but not really preferable unless you emptied out the Ilbarta chain (switcht o Ragrants if you do so while tongue is exposed). Barantsion is also a readily available option, since you should get composite on PD again before 3 bit breaks even if you kill Double with Barantsion.

For the lock-on thing, that's all your fault if Double is outside lock-on range. Should be staying closer to it. Standing right underneath Double is best. If Double is out of range, just Ilzonde closer.

And no, not really, any other class has strictly worse damage output (barring Ranger and Techer for support) except for Fo/Gu (which I've only heard is an option, haven't actually had an explanation of what to do with it, how many is ideal, etc). I don't think Fo/Gu is any good for pugs though.

TaigaUC
Nov 23, 2015, 01:31 PM
Composite? Ahh, composite Techs. Never mind.
That gauge increases based on Tech damage done, right? If you get a lot of high numbers it builds quick, right?
Not affected by Zanverse, right?

I tried Fo/Te the other day with my new 13 star crap and felt really weak.
Dunno if it was because everyone else sucked or what.
Is Fo/Te still worth doing if you're the only one, or if there's only one other weak IlBarta user that ruins the biggest damage hit?

LonelyGaruga
Nov 23, 2015, 01:52 PM
Gauge increases by tech damage done and scales with the enemy level you're attacking. 725K damage to get a full composite gauge when attacking level 80 enemies, with 4% (29K) being the most you can gain from a single hit (which makes techs like Namegid worthless for building composites). Zanverse does not fill the gauge. Magical Piece increases both the amount filled per attack and the cap by 1.7x.

Ilbarta is one of Fo/Te's best bossing options even when solo so I would say that it's worth using on Double, yeah. Even if there's a weak Fo/Te in the MPA, you're getting Ilbarta chains twice as fast, so it's not that big of a deal (they aren't likely to be using Ilbarta anyway, they probably suck). What kind of 13* were you using? Were you element matching? What's your skill tree? How much damage do you do with Barantsion?

TaigaUC
Nov 23, 2015, 05:12 PM
I was using that crappy Gryphon 13 star Rod, with about 30 light element. Forgot the name already. Shalotsia or Shurelia or something.
That character is normally Fire+Light, so they don't have an Ice weapon other than Elysion.
Skill tree was typical Ice+Light+Photon Flare. Going off memory, I think it was this (http://pso2-skill.pwnedgalaxy.net/skillcalc.php?10uDbxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIo jdnIF6dodBIb000000000doIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo000 0000dBbniN2SJI2XlkGA000007oIncKbqjGAqBIkIkGAcA0000 00IbIo0000000jdoIb0000000j). Normal Tech Advance because Na Barta entertains me.
I haven't played Fo/Te much at all recently, so I've only used Barantsion a total of maybe 15 times.
I very vaguely recall seeing the last hit hitting for 80k on Double or Darkness. Or maybe that was Loser.

I would go check the numbers if I didn't have to refresh ticket because the last few PD runs were soooo slow that my tickets ran out just before he died.
I couldn't figure out why they were slow, either. Everyone had either 13 stars or weapons extended to Ex11-13. Probably bad skill trees or something.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 23, 2015, 06:14 PM
Shallist is one of the best ice/dark rods so calling it "crappy" is pretty...well, whatever. Light is a terrible choice for it but oh well. 30 element makes it pretty trash though, that's 15% less damage on top of having no potential. You'd be better off with a Caduceus, especially if you can get it to drop with Ultimate Buster. It's easy to get from Profound Invasion.

For the sake of comparison, here's (http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skillcalc.php?10uDbxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIobxIo jdS8dodBIb000000000doIn0000000jdoib0000000fdo00000 00dBbsfHn2SGBekIcikGAfdA00000ioInfcDIbdnGAdBIxcKJI cA000000IbIo0000000jdoIb0000000j) the skill tree I use. Talis Tech Bonus is invaluable for Dark Falz Double because talis Ilbarta is way better than rod Ilbarta, though you obviously need a talis for that.

Here's (http://4rt.info/psod/?5HYcM) a damage comparison for Barantsion using my stats to compare 30 light Shallist, 50 light Caduceus, and 60 light Ideal Prayer (what I use for PD). Damage calculator doesn't allow for dual mastery to accurately represent composite tech damage so I have to do some additional calculations after the initial results (EM 1 * EM2 * 1.2x WB * Title Bonus). PD's core is a 1.75x modifier to all damage taken so for ice hits, the modifier is 1.75x, and for light hits, it's 2.1x (1.2 * 1.75). All hits in composite techs have an equal power notation, only the element (and number of hits for the two elements) differs.

[SPOILER-BOX]Shallist (Light): 67,129 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 127,597 (6 hits)
Shallist (Ice): 43,577 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 82,831 (5 hits)

Total: 1,179,737 (1.17m)

Caduceus (Light): 75,716 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 143,920 (6 hits)
Caduceus (Ice): 47,323 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 89,951 (5 hits)

Total: 1,313,275 (1.31m)

Ideal Prayer (Light): 86,498 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 164,414 (6 hits)
Ideal Prayer (Ice): 53,137 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 101,002 (5 hits)

Total: 1,491,494 (1.35m)[/SPOILER-BOX]

Under these circumstances, Ideal Prayer is 21% stronger than Shallist and 12% stronger than Caduceus (2% stronger than Caduceus with Ultimate Buster). Caduceus is 10.2% stronger than Shallist, and 20.2% stronger with Ultimate Buster.

Not really an exaggeration to say that Caduceus is massively better than what you're using right now, and that your gear really is kinda bad, which is why your Fo/Te seems weak.

Achelousaurus
Nov 23, 2015, 06:56 PM
Ilbarta is the only thing you really need. Ragrants on the tongue when it's exposed is an option, but not really preferable unless you emptied out the Ilbarta chain (switcht o Ragrants if you do so while tongue is exposed). Barantsion is also a readily available option, since you should get composite on PD again before 3 bit breaks even if you kill Double with Barantsion.

For the lock-on thing, that's all your fault if Double is outside lock-on range. Should be staying closer to it. Standing right underneath Double is best. If Double is out of range, just Ilzonde closer.

And no, not really, any other class has strictly worse damage output (barring Ranger and Techer for support) except for Fo/Gu (which I've only heard is an option, haven't actually had an explanation of what to do with it, how many is ideal, etc). I don't think Fo/Gu is any good for pugs though.
Thanks.
And ouch.

Well, can't do much about the range when double covers half the map in 2 seconds, though ._.

Anyway, considering I only have a fire build with 28% into ice for Barantsion and a lightning build, which is better to use?

Oh and ultimate buster works on these non-ultimate bosses?

milranduil
Nov 23, 2015, 07:00 PM
only on pd.

LonelyGaruga
Nov 23, 2015, 08:13 PM
Well, can't do much about the range when double covers half the map in 2 seconds, though ._.

Anyway, considering I only have a fire build with 28% into ice for Barantsion and a lightning build, which is better to use?

Oh and ultimate buster works on these non-ultimate bosses?

Eh, I never have issues staying locked on to Double...I just park myself underneath Double at the beginning as it walks forward and that's enough to stay in range for the whole fight up until the first rocket, after which it's just a position reset. It's pretty easy...you must be doing something wrong if you can't stay locked on to Double.

Use the build with more ice of course.

What Ultimate Buster does is that it applies a damage bonus to enemies in the 世壊 (Corrupted/Distorted/etc World) category, which consists of all Ultimate enemies, but also Viel Hunar, Profound Darkness, and Dio Hunar (when it comes out). It's the same conditional as species hunter-type potentials. It does not work on Dark Falz Double because they're a darker.

Sandmind
Nov 23, 2015, 11:44 PM
From your calculations LonelyGaruga, sound like I was under the right idea to plan to switch out Vinculum on my 5s Caduceus and add ultbuster. Would be a lose of roughly 1% on anything else, but making it that close to an ideal rod for those few boss would be nice.

Crevox
Nov 24, 2015, 12:05 AM
I strongly suspect rare drop rate increases if you haven't been playing much.

I wish that was the case, cause I take long periodic breaks from this game and never get anything.

The only decent rare drop I've ever found was a Guld Milla back when they were 7 million. Still have never found a 13 star after days, weeks, months of farming everything and anything.

TaigaUC
Nov 24, 2015, 01:04 AM
Double always telegraphs before hopping far away. I listed that already.
There's plenty of time to start moving to keep yourself in range.
It's all about positioning and reacting early to the signs.

If you can afford a 250% rare drop, you should always use it for EQs like Eluther an PD.
A single clear nets about ~30 cubes. You can fit about 3 runs into a single ticket, so that's ~90 cubes.
Even if you don't use a 250% ticket, those EQs tend to drop at least 10-20 cubes.
It only takes 6 cubes to get another 250% ticket.


Snip

Thanks for the explanation. By Caduceus you mean http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%AB%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A5%E3%83%BC%E3% 82%B7%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B9 right?
Is 29xx TATK good or bad?

dr apocalipsis
Dec 1, 2015, 08:10 AM
JFYI, Loser can drop 0 neros too.

TaigaUC
Dec 1, 2015, 12:23 PM
Yes, I did Loser several times the other day and got 0 Neros.
I'm just going to wait until Christmas EQ and Bingo which will definitely give something.

WEED420BLAZEIT
Dec 1, 2015, 07:46 PM
why i "kinda" hate PD?

how do you like your 13* drop today fam?

J U S T
U
S
T

INVADE my shit up

tbqvhwy fam

Apollo996
Dec 2, 2015, 01:28 AM
JFYI, Loser can drop 0 neros too.


Yes, I did Loser several times the other day and got 0 Neros.
I'm just going to wait until Christmas EQ and Bingo which will definitely give something.

Yeah it seems like if you only do one clear of doritos the total drops from loser are garbage. Try clearing doritos at least 4 times per character and you should see at least 2 neros per loser kill. This has been the experience of several of my team members anyways. You don't even need to do XH doritos, I clear doritos on SH then loser on XH and neros drop aplenty. I've seen anywhere from 2 to 5 nero drops from a single loser kill.

If you both got 0 nero drops and did several dorito clears then I guess RNG wins :(

TaigaUC
Dec 2, 2015, 01:47 AM
Yes, we know that. You have to clear Doritos 4 times to max out drops.
I didn't do it that day though, because I was in a hurry.

Regardless, I have JP friends complaining to me that Neros are too rare, so it's not just us.

KuroNeko77
Dec 2, 2015, 02:17 AM
I still managed to get only 1 nero from each of my runs yesterday while killing 5 Doritos with both my characters though...

The RNG is really strong in this game.

SoulSighTy
Dec 2, 2015, 02:29 AM
loser yesterday...

my alt and brother acc - 5 Doritos + 250 + 100 + 3 lv3 rare unit no daily = 1 nero...
my main 1st char - around 8 Doritos +250 +50 + 3 lv3 rare unit + 30% daily = 2 neroes
my main 2nd char - more than 10 Doritos +250 + 3 lv3 rare unit + 30% daily = 3 neroes!?

So... better to do more than 8 Doritos for full drop huh?

Vatallus
Dec 2, 2015, 03:13 AM
Lets see...

Each character did 4 Doritos before Luther.

Character 1 - 50% rare boost + rare drink = 0
Character 2 - 50% rare boost + rare drink = 1
Character 3 - 250% rare boost + rare drink = 3

I tried 50%s because that usually seems to get me Elder runs that are 2/2/1 Neros.

Hysteria1987
Dec 2, 2015, 03:27 AM
Regardless, I have JP friends complaining to me that Neros are too rare, so it's not just us.

Even the Caligulas are too rare for me, I just don't get the chance to catch most of these EQs- it kinda sucks that they're scheduled only. I've done two PD runs total, and have done one Profound Invasion since PD came out- but then, I'm studying again so what can you do.

I redid the DF Double story quest the other day in the hope that in its' deservedly mangled corpse I'd find a stone or two, but the quest boots you out of Kuron before you can do anything with it. If I do the Hunar/Loser story quests over again, would they drop the goods, or are they too low-levelled?

Kayarine
Dec 2, 2015, 04:49 AM
Only lv 71+ Hunar/Angel/Dourumble can drop Nero. (No story quest enemies are this high leveled)

Also as I recall, the Hunar and Angel story quests also boot you out of the field as soon as the cutscenes end too.

Hysteria1987
Dec 2, 2015, 06:28 PM
Only lv 71+ Hunar/Angel/Dourumble can drop Nero. (No story quest enemies are this high leveled)

Also as I recall, the Hunar and Angel story quests also boot you out of the field as soon as the cutscenes end too.

Dang :-P oh well, it was worth the thought. Thanks for the heads-up, yo.

ArcaneTechs
Dec 3, 2015, 11:21 PM
loser yesterday...

my alt and brother acc - 5 Doritos + 250 + 100 + 3 lv3 rare unit no daily = 1 nero...
my main 1st char - around 8 Doritos +250 +50 + 3 lv3 rare unit + 30% daily = 2 neroes
my main 2nd char - more than 10 Doritos +250 + 3 lv3 rare unit + 30% daily = 3 neroes!?

So... better to do more than 8 Doritos for full drop huh?
4 Runs maxes out the drop pool, killing more Dorios doesn't mean the pool just increases more. It's RNG if you only got 1 or 2 stones per main fight.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Dec 3, 2015, 11:34 PM
I'm just waiting on the xmas bingo at this point. Getting up at odd hours for most PDs worn on me, and I don't have the cash to buy 5% ele boosters. Almost 300 calugas, almost 60 nero, and a weird sleep schedule after ~3 weeks, I'd rather wait to see if xmas bingo will have ~20 on the reverse side so I can find a way to abuse it with my free character slot somehow.

TaigaUC
Dec 4, 2015, 12:17 PM
I've never seen PD drop any of those 13 stars or units. The units must be rare as nuts.

LonelyGaruga
Dec 4, 2015, 01:07 PM
I got a Blanc Fluke about a week ago. Naturally, I already had 60 element Lizgrips since the Gal LQ. No other 13*s, but a fair number of Nox weapons. All the bad ones of course. I've attended all but 1 PD EQ each week, plus another 1-2 missed, so like...idk the 13* drop rates seem fine to me.

Can't even tell how rare the units are thanks to them not showing up on the item drop records.

TaigaUC
Dec 4, 2015, 01:49 PM
Well the units are like 3m on shop, so they must be pretty rare.
I've been doing PD 3-4 times each EQ, and haven't seen anything special yet.
A few Nox weapons, but they're all worth jack now.

I bet that by the time a 13 star does drop, I'll already have that same weapon with better element or something.
I'm not really aiming for them though. I already have good weapons for what I want to do.

TaigaUC
Dec 7, 2015, 11:28 PM
Ugh. I really ought to pay attention to the classes in the multi. Someone left immediately, probably because of that.
I didn't notice there were a ton of EN Techers until it was too late. Nearly a 20 minute run.
Until now, I'd never seen PD cycle through the eyeballs 3-4 times. He's never lived that long.

At least now I know what happens. He doesn't have any extra behavior, just cycles the same stuff over and over.

Edit: Wow. I got an arm unit! Amazing!

BlakLanner
Dec 8, 2015, 12:17 AM
I am surprised he lived that long with all the Banish/Ragrants spam that had to be going on. This, of course, assumes the Techers are competent.

RealKillaK
Dec 8, 2015, 01:25 AM
This is why I hate playing this boss
[SPOILER-BOX]www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGCifmllYk[/SPOILER-BOX]

TaigaUC
Dec 8, 2015, 02:15 AM
It probably wasn't just the Techers, but if they're melee, I assume they'd have to be some of the lowest contributors.

@Real
Yeah, random stuff like walls in the worst places at the worst times, sometimes in a row. Sometimes he just keeps flying around constantly with no chance to attack.
Double randomly keeps running away and nothing else, too. It's broken and shitty.
I had PD bug out a few times in the past few days, where it reveals the core only to close it up 1-2 seconds later and run away.

Aine
Dec 8, 2015, 02:41 AM
This is why I hate playing this boss
[SPOILER-BOX]www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGCifmllYk[/SPOILER-BOX]

You can actually tell when PD is about to open its core in a different direction, it happens when you break the third arm on a two-arm pattern just as it's leaving the raft. It will fly to the sides or even behind you before opening its core. That wall was pure bad luck though...

Maninbluejumpsuit
Dec 8, 2015, 08:21 AM
This is why I hate playing this boss
[SPOILER-BOX]www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGCifmllYk[/SPOILER-BOX]

God I wish they'd nerf Fos.

Sandmind
Dec 8, 2015, 11:54 PM
This is why I hate playing this boss
[SPOILER-BOX]www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGCifmllYk[/SPOILER-BOX]

God, I know it's an austere (and I saw PF), but those 25k ragrants tick. My 11k tick with a Caduceus feel weak and pathetic.

Saagonsa
Dec 9, 2015, 01:34 AM
God, I know it's an austere (and I saw PF), but those 25k ragrants tick. My 11k tick with a Caduceus feel weak and pathetic.

Do you have ult buster on the Cad? It should be one of the better weapons to use on PD if so.

femme fatale
Dec 9, 2015, 01:40 AM
God, I know it's an austere (and I saw PF), but those 25k ragrants tick. My 11k tick with a Caduceus feel weak and pathetic.

11k cad vs 25k ofstia must not be correct, did you hit WBd part, JA, 20/20 light mastery, shifta strike, team attack buff?

Flaoc
Dec 9, 2015, 01:49 AM
11k cad vs 25k ofstia must not be correct, did you hit WBd part, JA, 20/20 light mastery, shifta strike, team attack buff?

dont forget weak hit drink

Sandmind
Dec 9, 2015, 02:11 AM
Actually ...

...

Oups, those are the numbers I usually hit for on the phase1/2 when attacking it's appendages thingies. Usually, I'm eitheir baranstion'ing when his core is wide open or not paying attention to my ragrants spam.

...

I need the next PD to check my ragrants on core...

(Also, shifta drink, shifta, sometime shifta strike if a TE around, ult buster on caduceus, pretty much only affix'ed 70 Tatk on each gear and standard ice/light/wind FOTE build [wind, in case no one else zanverse, not like I needed dark for this EQ]. And muscle memory JA'ing)

milranduil
Dec 9, 2015, 02:13 AM
Actually ...

...

Oups, those are the numbers I usually hit for on the phase1/2 when attacking it's appendages thingies. Usually, I'm eitheir baranstion'ing when his core is wide open or not paying attention to my ragrants spam.

...

I need the next PD to check my ragrants on core...

(Also, shifta drink, shifta, sometime shifta strike if a TE around, ult buster on caduceus, pretty much only affix'ed 70 Tatk on each gear and standard ice/light/wind FOTE build [wind, in case no one else zanverse, not like I needed dark for this EQ]. And muscle memory JA'ing)

Core is 2x damage of the non-broken parts, so you're in the right ball park then.

RealKillaK
Dec 9, 2015, 02:15 AM
11k cad vs 25k ofstia must not be correct, did you hit WBd part, JA, 20/20 light mastery, shifta strike, team attack buff?

Wow people looking at my damage wtf thats not the point of the video! Anyways my damage at max damage should be 33k with wb (that video im missing a few things including tree cuz team sucks)

femme fatale
Dec 9, 2015, 02:37 AM
Wow people looking at my damage wtf thats not the point of the video! Anyways my damage at max damage should be 33k with wb (that video im missing a few things including tree cuz team sucks)

"wow dun look at mai dmg gaiz" bruh.. come on now
but yeah that wall and expose direction switch was bullshit

Maninbluejumpsuit
Dec 9, 2015, 03:03 AM
Wow people looking at my damage wtf thats not the point of the video!

I know. I saw the troll wall. It's just that there are still people who can't get over the shunka days that are so quick to say guren OP, when a FO can do much more, with a shitton better PP regen, and compound techs that can put even combat finish to shame.

I know it's a bit off topic, but I've been sending in feedback telling them to nerf Fos every once in a while for some time now in the best machine japanese I could get out of google:
[SPOILER-BOX]フォース、他のすべてのクラスに比べてあまりにも強いです。
フォースのパワーを下げてください。[/SPOILER-BOX]

LonelyGaruga
Dec 9, 2015, 03:18 AM
Comparing composite techs with Katana Combat Finish? Using Guren complainers to justify complaining about Force?

How does that make any sense to begin with? Yeah, Fo/Te is top tier, but why are you asking for nerfs instead of buffs to other classes? Don't forget that Techer is also a user of composite techs, and every tech using class can use techs. And PD is the only boss EQ that Fo/Te excels at anyway. It's actually one of the worst classes for Magatsu, for example.

TaigaUC
Dec 9, 2015, 04:08 AM
So, Bingo gives Neros, as expected.

3 for front side. Reverse probably gives more.

Tunga
Dec 9, 2015, 04:31 AM
I know. I saw the troll wall. It's just that there are still people who can't get over the shunka days that are so quick to say guren OP, when a FO can do much more, with a shitton better PP regen, and compound techs that can put even combat finish to shame.

I know it's a bit off topic, but I've been sending in feedback telling them to nerf Fos every once in a while for some time now in the best machine japanese I could get out of google:
[SPOILER-BOX]フォース、他のすべてのクラスに比べてあまりにも強いです。
フォースのパワーを下げてください。[/SPOILER-BOX]
You should drop katanas and pick up a rod. You'll like it :wacko:

Xaelouse
Dec 9, 2015, 04:36 AM
Not much reason to complain when they're giving all classes new toys/buffs by ep4
People that think FO will be best class in TD4 also forget that AIS exists to mop up anything better especially the toy darkers

TaigaUC
Dec 9, 2015, 04:51 AM
http://mmoloda.com/pso2/image.php?id=69991

No reverse side?

Maenara
Dec 9, 2015, 05:11 AM
Dunno which thread I should put this in, don't really wanna make a new thread.

New 12*s are kind of ass.
Calamity Soul has 'Just Attacks have a chance to inflict Jellen' latent. All-class rod, innate Ilmegid.
Frozen Shooter has two potentials, '+80% PP regen from normal attacks' and 'Increase Freeze's durability by 300%'. All-class rifle, innate Barta. The most striking feature about it is that it has 990 T-atk, which gives TE/RAs, FO/RAs, and other R/T hybrids a new best gun.

Naoya Kiriyama
Dec 9, 2015, 05:20 AM
Frozen Shooter has two potentials, '+80% PP regen from normal attacks' and 'Increase Freeze's durability by 300%'. All-class rifle, innate Barta. The most striking feature about it is that it has 990 T-atk, which gives TE/RAs, FO/RAs, and other R/T hybrids a new best gun.
How it fares against Queen Vera in terms of PP regen? 80% sounds nice in paper, specially with rifle.

Meteor Weapon
Dec 9, 2015, 05:20 AM
Frozen Shooter ='Increase Freeze's durability by 300%'

Not inflict? Holy shit WTF sega?

Maenara
Dec 9, 2015, 05:23 AM
Frozen Shooter ='Increase Freeze's durability by 300%'

Not inflict? Holy shit WTF sega?

There was already a Talis with the same potential. They just gave Freeze Shooter an existing Freeze-related potential so that they didn't have to make a new one.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Dec 9, 2015, 05:24 AM
Comparing composite techs with Katana Combat Finish?

Combat finish was formerly the strongest new active skill usable via subpallet (sans WB+chain) before limit break/compounds. Ironically, compounds can even be used more frequently than katana combat depending on the quest/user. What's wrong with comparing them?


Using Guren complainers to justify complaining about Force?

Force complaints were justified long before guren was even a thing. Hell, I didn't complain about force much until ult lilipa, and fomelgion came out. I'm pretty sure you even said Fo was way overtuned before I even started really complaining about it.

I just find it very silly how fast people want to throw guren under the bus as if it's the next ungodly ep2 shunka when we have classes that can do far more than just comparable damage.


Yeah, Fo/Te is top tier, but why are you asking for nerfs instead of buffs to other classes?

They are the most notable outlier, and it should be a simpler matter to bring them down instead of aggravating a potential arms race by buffing everything so that the game would have to be entirely rebalanced around it again.

Besides, they already just buffed katanas by 10%.

Admittedly, banish/vol, and chain are quite silly too, but they are the definition of a gimmick. The class combos that wield those gimmicks as a whole aren't as strong as Fo in many cases. Magatsu is a notable exception, but hilariously enough we're not even getting a magatsu all this week. Likely a sign that it's getting phased out as the thing to do in favor of PD.


You should drop katanas and pick up a rod. You'll like it :wacko:

I'm trying not to go over to the dark side of the force.

Maenara
Dec 9, 2015, 06:41 AM
Deo Hunar goes down like a bitch, as expected.
Surprisingly, it actually does damage, unlike its larger variant.

dr apocalipsis
Dec 9, 2015, 07:05 AM
No reverse side for bingo :/ :/ :/

Maninbluejumpsuit
Dec 9, 2015, 07:18 AM
Deo Hunar goes down like a bitch, as expected.

Until WB 'jamming' isn't limited to 1 quest (soon to be two), everything on XH outside of those select quests will go down faster than a hooker making time and a half.

Z-0
Dec 9, 2015, 07:38 AM
Reverse side will come when TD4 is released.

Maenara
Dec 9, 2015, 07:41 AM
I thought we all agreed that it was colloquially going to be called bluebullet.

Maninbluejumpsuit
Dec 9, 2015, 08:03 AM
Reverse side will come when TD4 is released.

Oh shit... probably wont be able to spam it for potential neros on lowbie alts as easily as I hoped... need more exp tickets.

TaigaUC
Dec 9, 2015, 09:48 AM
Reverse side always has a bunch of high level stuff. I usually don't bother with it.

KLMS1
Dec 9, 2015, 11:00 AM
I thought we all agreed that it was colloquially going to be called bluebullet.

Blueballed.

LonelyGaruga
Dec 9, 2015, 01:59 PM
Combat finish was formerly the strongest new active skill usable via subpallet (sans WB+chain) before limit break/compounds. Ironically, compounds can even be used more frequently than katana combat depending on the quest/user. What's wrong with comparing them?

Force complaints were justified long before guren was even a thing. Hell, I didn't complain about force much until ult lilipa, and fomelgion came out. I'm pretty sure you even said Fo was way overtuned before I even started really complaining about it.

I just find it very silly how fast people want to throw guren under the bus as if it's the next ungodly ep2 shunka when we have classes that can do far more than just comparable damage.

They are the most notable outlier, and it should be a simpler matter to bring them down instead of aggravating a potential arms race by buffing everything so that the game would have to be entirely rebalanced around it again.

Katana Combat Finish is a mobbing tool and takes all of two seconds to execute while you are fully invincible. It is a skill that only Braver can use, and only does a few times more than the strongest katana PAs. Composite techs are an entirely separate attack category that must be charged by attacking and have varying advantages and lengths. They aren't skills, can be used by both Force and Techer, and are heavily reliant on doubling up on the Element Mastery skills corresponding to them. Having only one of the sets is a full 44% less damage. They aren't really comparable at all.

Everyone with working knowledge of the game can see that Fo/Te is an incredibly strong class, far and above the rest, but literally everything Force does, save access to all rods and its skill tree, is shared with at least one other class. This makes balancing it much more difficult than other classes because anything done to Force that isn't done to rods and its skill tree negatively impacts classes that are actually balanced. And it's only Fo/Te that's so good, any other Force combination and any other Techer combination is pointedly not exceptionally better than any other class combination.

Which is why I find it annoying when people want to try to balance Fo/Te. Rods are fine, the skill tree is fine, and everything that could be done to actually "fix" it negatively impacts classes that don't need fixing, so what do you think can be accomplished by asking for Force nerfs? Sure, it's easy to say that Fo/Te is the biggest outlier, so nerfing it should be the simplest solution, but due to how the game is designed, it's virtually impossible to nerf it without nerfing a lot of other things indirectly, things that don't warrant nerfing. So either you have no idea how to actually address the problem without collateral damage, or you don't care about it because it doesn't affect you.

Which is why I'm saying buffs make more sense, because you can address every single class individually that way and avoid indirectly impacting any other class with the changes. That is the simple solution, although Sega doesn't appear to mind this stuff anyway.

And Guren haters are a moronic plague that should simply be ignored. They don't know anything.


I thought we all agreed that it was colloquially going to be called bluebullet.

Just you.

vantpers
Dec 9, 2015, 05:22 PM
How can one say that Force's tree is fine? It pretty much rewards players that are specialized in as few elements as possible, except the specialization can be pretty much summed up as good for one quest and bad for another, which means paying for skill trees provides very clear advantages if you can have a tree done just for one EQ.

And how any Force balancing impacts other classes that aren't Force with another subclass or that one subtype of Techter that uses techs is beyond me. And if we talk about buffing other classes we can either make them easier to play which for many would be too easy to play, or we just buff damage which means an even bigger part of the content enters the joke HP territory.

And Katana Combat with Compound Tech comparison is kinda valid in practice. Both are bursts of damage over large areas or at least reasonable one in case of Ice/Light compound tech, compound techs mostly are just better because they have higher DPS and faster charge in most situations.

KLMS1
Dec 9, 2015, 05:31 PM
Pretty sure Compounds aren't usable every whatwasitnow, 90 seconds or so though...

BlakLanner
Dec 9, 2015, 05:32 PM
They charge pretty fast if you hit hard enough.

KLMS1
Dec 9, 2015, 05:35 PM
Wouldn't know as I don't play Fo or Te, but going by how rarely I see them going off in EQs I'd hazard a guess they're not available *nearly* as reliably as KC.