Thoughts on Summoner?

[Kusurian]

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it yet. I will at least try it out on release.

[Xaelouse]

try asking this in 3 weeks

[Zorafim]

There's already a topic on it. I believe the consensus is "WTF?!"

If you want my thoughts on it, I think it looks ridiculous. I've never enjoyed pet classes, nor the fantasy of it. I do like the idea of fighting with unique and exotic creatures, or commanding a powerful being to lay waste to my enemies. And this class does none of these things.
The animations look overly frilly, the summons look overly cutesy, and the gameplay looks overly complicated. Not a fan.

[Kusurian]

I was too lazy to go searching for a existing topic on this. xD

Anyways, I'm gonna save up so many 15K EXP Tickets from PSO2es for the class.

[Vintasticvin]

XD Then why make a topic on this OP come on now man pull it together I know we're still shaking from the Earth 2028 reveal and Maenara rage quitting!

EP4 YAYYYY

[reaper527]

the summons look overly cutesy

i'm not sure what you were expecting, but the summons look like big overgrown mags. pretty much exactly the same style of design.

[Zorafim]

i'm not sure what you were expecting,

[spoiler-box]http://www.ff-xv.net/images/media/ffxv_e3_2013_gameplay-592.jpg[/spoiler-box]

[fuusen_gum]

if you can have a pet that looks like tagami kazuchi would you still say it cutesy ???

[LonelyGaruga]

i'm not sure what you were expecting, but the summons look like big overgrown mags. pretty much exactly the same style of design.

What.

They look nothing alike outside of being "cute". If the summons actually did look like enlarged mags then they would actually be getting much more positive reception. As it currently stands, the summons look like they would fit in some woodland fantasy story, while mags look like robot pets.

Though personally speaking I don't mind it that much. Would prefer almost anything else though, but who knows, maybe pet appearance camos will be added later in the future.

[Freshellent]

At the very least, I think they could redo the appearance of the summons. Beyond that, it's... there I guess.

Summons seem to more often than not look goofy, I can't think of many I would like to have running around with me.

[Zorafim]

What.

They look nothing alike outside of being "cute".

I see the similarities. If you look at just PSO2's mags, and look at only the device evolutions, the similarity is there. These summons don't look too different from, say, the shark behind my shoulder. And the style isn't dissimilar from the beefcake mags hunters get.
I would much rather control any of PSO's mags over this selection though.


Summons seem to more often than not look goofy, I can't think of many I would like to have running around with me.

Summons in general? I feel like WoW's were pretty neat, considering the artstyle of the game. You could make arguments against each, but I felt a bit awesome with a felhound at my side.
I didn't get to play as a real summoner in FFXI, but I did get to play with the Leviathan summon for a while. That was really satisfying to have. And I think I would have liked to have any of their summons.

In general though, they're pretty tough to do. You need to have something that looks impressive enough to have people want to try the class, but simple enough to not annoy other players. I think WoW's the only game where I liked the summons, and even there I often forget I have them.

[untrustful]

I think we'll have to learn not to get attached to these pets as better ones are gonna come out.

Still though, that bird is neat. Totally matches me perfectly.

[starwind75043]

Its a interesting concept. I saving exp tickets right now to lvl it. I wont really attempt to learn it until a i see some ingame response.

[sesiom000]

i sorta agree with u guys here, having a badass Cast character running around with a cute pet its a bit weird lol, i think this class has more aesthetic impact than other classes.
Like i can totally see for example a Badass Force Cast but i cant see a Badass Cast Summoner...
But the pets where designed to appeal the majority of Japanese Pso2 players and that is of course Kawaii characters so i guess they made this math: Kawaii character+Kawaii pet = profit.
But only looking at the individual Pet design i think they are very nice and colorful.

[AkuTenshiiZero]

I've always been a fan of pet classes, from Diablo 2's Necromancer to CoH's Mastermind, or just solo pets like WoW's Warlock or this class. There's a certain tactical joy behind it (Or in Diablo 2's case, the joy of watching a guy get mauled by like 20 skeletons).

I can't say much about how Summoner compares until I play it, but it doesn't look like it's going to scratch the same itch. Pets don't look autonomous enough, and the player doesn't seem to do much besides direct the pet. It looks more like a Talis that can shoot and melee.

Finally, I'm sick to death of KAWAII DESU NE. The moefication of anime and video games has officially turned me off to the whole damn affair (which is why I latched onto JoJo like a goddamn life raft). I'm not asking that we be summoning skeletons or Eldritch nightmares, but a dog/wolf thing that actually looks like an animal and not a Pokemon would be nice. Or maybe a technological thing like mags, heck even a Photon Beast. Anything other than Woofda the floating plushie.

[untrustful]

Director: Looks like a few players want a serious looking pet.
Producer: I will make a purple dragon with an angry face >:D *pomf* :3

[SilkaN]

Someone posted this

I dunno if it's old or new
and I don't really care.

[SPOILER-BOX]https://pso2blog.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/summonerskills.jpg?w=584[/SPOILER-BOX]

[untrustful]

Man, lots of 5s on there. Wonder what Tear Master and Harmonize are for.

[Hysteria1987]

Not really that interested in Summoner yet tbh, but then I'm not really that interested in most classes as it is- I'm one of those once-a-force always-a-force kind of people. Still, I'd love a proper automated beastmaster sort of thing like AkuTenshiiZero was on about.

I'll likely level it at some point for the class bonus, but I really can't see myself going out of my way to make a brand new setup to main a new class properly.

Still, I might end up surprised :P


Man, lots of 5s on there. Wonder what Tear Master and Harmonize are for.Tear Master powers up Summoners based upon how many people around them have the Summoner-related rage-tears. Harmonize brings peace to the people around them, and makes them more accepting of Summoners. They don't work well together :(

Alright, seriously though, the class concept may not appeal to me enough to properly use, but I gotta say I'm actually pretty interested in how the mechanics are *actually* going to work as well (as opposed to my made-up nonsense). It's going to make the game a different place, for sure.

[untrustful]

It's going to make the game a different place, for sure.

Sega(c): I'll make you eat those words!

[LonelyGaruga]

It's actually Dear Master, lol

[BIG OLAF]

Thoughts on Summoner?

Gimmicky, brute-forced schlock.

That's all I got.

[NoiseHERO]

Should've just had animal themed mini mecha and control them with a PS vita/gameboy or something. Or make it THE gunslash class or something. Gunslash only weapon but backup your weapon's lack of imaginative use with bladewolf sidekick.

But nah let's add a 8th layer of useless cute mascots and throw in photon powered magic harry potter wands.

[KLMS1]

Obviously not hardcore enough (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmericanKirbyIsHardcore) for Western consumers...

[AkuTenshiiZero]

Obviously not hardcore enough (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmericanKirbyIsHardcore) for Western consumers...

Look at the shit we fight in this game and try to tell me with a straight face that a cartoon puppy and a cat wizard fit the visual theme of PSO2. They look fucking ridiculous and stick out when you actually look at them in the greater context of the game.

Nobody is arguing that cute bullshit can't exist. The problem is that it's taken over Japanese culture to such an extreme that now we CAN'T have something serious anymore. Look, I just want a dog that looks like a fucking dog and not like something that crawled out of Ken Sugimori's trash bin. Hardly what I'd call "hardcore."

[wefwq]

Honestly, i'm not too fond about whatever they show for this class on the beginning, though i grew interested because of how much quirky gimmick that they try to implement just to support this class.
I don't expect that much from this class though i will try it out when it comes out.

[Rakurai]

I doubt it's anything I'm going to want to main.

Probably just going to max it for potential use as a subclass, though the sheer number of seemingly pet dependent skills doesn't look promising in that regard.

[Kondibon]

I doubt it's anything I'm going to want to main.

Probably just going to max it for potential use as a subclass, though the sheer number of seemingly pet dependent skills doesn't look promising in that regard.
It actually seems like it's meant to be a mainclass exclusively using skills from other classes in conjuction with pets based on the fact that it can change the stats it uses. Unless it can change damage types too though I don't see it getting much use out of anything other than Fi or Hu assuming skills that aren't raw stats even affect pets.

[Xaelouse]

サブクラスに設定した場合はペット召喚はできないので、メインクラスにする必要がある。

[KLMS1]

Look at the shit we fight in this game and try to tell me with a straight face that a cartoon puppy and a cat wizard fit the visual theme of PSO2.

Nyau.
Rappies.
Half of [Loser]'s menagerie is poultry farm on bad acid crossed with overly ornate Biedermeier table decorations.
Literally every fucking Toy Darker.

Not to mention any number of truly bizarro outfits players head out to fight those dressed in... or most Mag designs.

Yeah, I'll actually tell you with a straight face that they do, indeed, "fit the visual theme of PSO2" easily enough.

[wefwq]

サブクラスに設定した場合はペット召喚はできないので、メインクラスにする必要がある。
Reborn they said, new experience they said.


Look at the shit we fight in this game and try to tell me with a straight face that a cartoon puppy and a cat wizard fit the visual theme of PSO2. They look fucking ridiculous and stick out when you actually look at them in the greater context of the game.

Nobody is arguing that cute bullshit can't exist. The problem is that it's taken over Japanese culture to such an extreme that now we CAN'T have something serious anymore. Look, I just want a dog that looks like a fucking dog and not like something that crawled out of Ken Sugimori's trash bin. Hardly what I'd call "hardcore."
We already have bunch of "cute" things since the very beginning.
http://puu.sh/mp4N5.png

And don't forget about PSO2 x Hello Kitty in the future, please look forward to it!

[TaigaUC]

I don't think the problem is that cute stuff overtook Japanese culture.
They have plenty of cool stuff too. There's a place for everything.

The problem is that SEGA, for whatever reason, decided they wanted the new class to appeal to... kids, or little girls, or something.
My JP friends (male and female) have pretty much all said they wanted something cooler, so Summoner probably isn't aimed at the average PSO2 player.

PSO2 has always been a clusterfuck of whatever. The entire phantoms thing sounds like a totally different game as well.
Expect PSO2 to get even more bizarre later on. Every episode will probably appeal to a completely different demographic.
I guess that explains how they expect to keep PSO2 going for a decade.

[Hysteria1987]

I guess that explains how they expect to keep PSO2 going for a decade.Wouldn't surprise me- and in a sense it's quite a clever business move. Follow the flavour of the month, and promote promote PROMOTE. I'm sure we all know by now that this new anime dealey of their will very likely bring in an influx of new players too.

Of course, this style of doing business at the more extreme ends of the spectrum isn't exactly conductive to keeping old players. It will continually bring in new players to spend fresh money, over and over, but comparitively less of them will be inclined to hang around to be hardcore and 1337 (I will not apologise for bringing back 1337). But then, being the sort of more 'social' game Sega's decided they want this to be, that fits in perfectly well.

[Kondibon]

I don't think the problem is that cute stuff overtook Japanese culture.
I know it's just wikipedia but...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawaii

edit: Also relevent http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Kawaisa

[NoobSpectre]

Maybe thats why they seperate EP1-3 and EP4 totally in char selection before starting game (aka the tunnel). Things get too... messed up?

Anyway, maybe should make a thread about old small compact but convenient gateship vs big large bridge with your new EP4 quest waifu but no apparent place to jump off as exit.

[Rehal]

Someone posted this

I dunno if it's old or new
and I don't really care.

[SPOILER-BOX]https://pso2blog.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/summonerskills.jpg?w=584[/SPOILER-BOX]

Pretty old, not sure if more old than this
[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/m5TNZ/d14f6ef179.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://puu.sh/mpakl/e920357105.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

[LunaSolstice]

I do love summoner classes in alot of other MMOs so I'm excited for this.

[TaigaUC]

I still think they should have allowed us to tame the ingame animals.
There are so many of them, too. What a waste of potential.
You know everyone would just get Rappy pets.


I know it's just wikipedia but...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawaii

edit: Also relevent http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Kawaisa

Yeah, but I guess my point was not everyone throws cuteness where it's unwanted, unexpected, or won't belong.
I think it's pretty rare for JP stuff to break setting/context/atmosphere for the sake of irrelevant cuteness?
Probably because it's pretty obvious you're going to alienate a decent amount of the core fanbase if you take something like a serious future world cataclysmic space drama and sprinkle colorful fairy Harry Potter pokemon modern highschool girls over it and then tie it in with a generic highschool anime.
I do know Silent Hill had a magical girl costume, but they also have joke UFOs.

[KLMS1]

>serious
>drama

...just checking, but we ARE still talking about PSO2 here right?

[Kondibon]

Yeah, but I guess my point was not everyone throws cuteness into serious stuff.
I think it's pretty rare for JP stuff to break setting for the sake of irrelevant cuteness?
PSO2 has ALWAYS been like that though. I guess I'm more surprised people think this kind of thing is new when fluffy rappies, mesetan, lilipans, and entire suites of "cute" weapons exist. Like, yeah it's kinda lame that all the pets are all cutsey looking, but it's not anything new in and of itself.

I've said this before, but I really think they've always been aiming for a different target audience than most of the people here who play.


>serious
>drama

...just checking, but we ARE still talking about PSO2 here right?Execution aside, PSO2's story is pretty dark, albeit cheesy.

[KLMS1]

Sufficiently supermax cheesy animu space opera that I've never been able to take it very seriously. I'll give you some of the charcters get put through quite the wringers tho.

Then again, from what I know a fair few Pretty Cure seasons get rather dark too so it's not like that means a whole lot by itself.

[LonelyGaruga]

The issue with Summoner is that people are comparing a class with other things and not other classes. Sure there's plenty of cute stuff, but none of those are strictly enforced into a class.

[Kondibon]

The issue with Summoner is that people are comparing a class with other things and not other classes. Sure there's plenty of cute stuff, but none of those are strictly enforced into a class.Maybe I just don't care because I'm more worried about the core mechanics of the class than the aesthetics. They can always add new pets later, and they're probably going to, so there's still room for "cool" pets. And hating on the candy themed UI is as silly as hating grinding because of Dudu and Monica.

EDIT: I think I'm just rubbing it in because it's always been the other way around for me, with summoning classes that summon boring zombies and ghosts.

[Totori]

The issue with Summoner is that people are comparing a class with other things and not other classes. Sure there's plenty of cute stuff, but none of those are strictly enforced into a class.

But you don't see peeps whining about being a 6'0 tall man swinging a baton around with magical explosions? Sure the summon creatures look a bit bubbly, but that's just the style they want. No one is forced to be that class we still got 8 other classes to choose from.

Personally seems better than having some ugly looking dragon creature hanging right next to my cute Totori.

[KLMS1]

Sure there's plenty of cute stuff, but none of those are strictly enforced into a class.

How many people run around without an active Mag? Now enumerate the Mag skins that *aren't* cutesy af...
Hell.
Even the freaking [Loser] one is made of d'aww.

[Aine]

Design and aesthetics aside, it looks like a huge pain in the arse from a gameplay perspective. PSO2 is already an ugly mix of messy and time consuming systems due to the nature of the staggered updates, and now they're throwing in pet raising. I was hoping they'd use EP4 as an opportunity to clean the game up, but I guess not.

[Frien]

I can't comment on how the class will play with other classes so I'm not going to get my hopes up but I'm not going to be negative towards the class itself. The pets, however; I was hoping for something like smaller versions of photon blast Mags since you have a bunch of designs, people really like them and it gives them another role (even though they're still incredibly useful for PP regen, a large AoE Zondeel, a moment of invincibility and a damage boost for Ares). I like the bird's design and that it's S-ATK based.

I'm still keeping an eye out for other pet designs, maybe they'll make some robotic ones to fit with the theme of the game more and so Summoner will look better with a CAST / non-costume Caseal.

[SilkaN]

I'm still keeping an eye out for other pet designs, maybe they'll make some robotic ones to fit with the theme of the game more and so Summoner will look better with a CAST / non-costume Caseal.


Looks like pets are bound to a certain set of stats / skills.
But knowing Sega, there will be some sort of skins (AC of course $$$$$$) for pets in the future.

[Tenlade]

Looks like pets are bound to a certain set of stats / skills.
But knowing Sega, there will be some sort of skins (AC of course $$$$$$) for pets in the future.

Ill be shocked if there isn't. Braver and Bouncer both had promotional camos you could get codes for when they came out, right?

[Dycize]

I'm looking forward to Summoner, see how it handles with the other classes and stuff.
I don't mind the cutesy aesthetic, it's not THAT different from everything else.
I mean, doesn't shock me more than the typical force being a tiny cutesy newearl.
And as others have said, there's always room for more pets or skins in the future (as for the matter of moneys, well, go farm more meseta guys. that's how it's always been).

[LonelyGaruga]

How many people run around without an active Mag? Now enumerate the Mag skins that *aren't* cutesy af...
Hell.
Even the freaking [Loser] one is made of d'aww.

Those aren't plastered all over trailers (barring the portions that specifically feature dress-up stuff), openings, and official artwork. Summoner pets are. As far as I'm concerned any non-standard mag is non-canon. Not a single NPC uses one of those cutesy mags at any rate.


Ill be shocked if there isn't. Braver and Bouncer both had promotional camos you could get codes for when they came out, right?

Summoner's getting camos for its baton, sadly.

[KLMS1]

Those aren't plastered all over trailers (barring the portions that specifically feature dress-up stuff), openings, and official artwork. Summoner pets are.

That's rather beside the point. Which is that whining about the Summoner proxy critters being "2kewt4muhedgyPSOs" is at best blatant cherry-picking when Everyone & Dog, Inc. has something even moreso literally hovering over their shoulder.


As far as I'm concerned any non-standard mag is non-canon. Not a single NPC uses one of those cutesy mags at any rate.

The standard Mags are already cute as buttons, if you haven't noticed. (Or in some cases more like toy planes or somesuch than anything.) Certainly not exactly what you'd call "imposing".

Also Alis *does*; specifically, a Beley IIRC. You were saying...?


Summoner's getting camos for its baton, sadly.

I don't really see how that would be somehow mutually exclusive. That's like saying you can't have both weapon camos and nonstandard Mags for ex.

[untrustful]

Guys.

What if sega gives waifus as pets in the future?

[KLMS1]

...you mean your Support Partner isn't one already?

You need to take a long hard look at what you're doing with your life, son.

[starwind75043]

The one thing i do agree with everyone is this game has to many mascot characters.

[untrustful]

...you mean your Support Partner isn't one already?

You need to take a long hard look at what you're doing with your life, son.

BRO SHE'S MY SISTER WTF

[LonelyGaruga]

That's rather beside the point. Which is that whining about the Summoner proxy critters being "2kewt4muhedgyPSOs" is at best blatant cherry-picking when Everyone & Dog, Inc. has something even moreso literally hovering over their shoulder.

The standard Mags are already cute as buttons, if you haven't noticed. (Or in some cases more like toy planes or somesuch than anything.) Certainly not exactly what you'd call "imposing".

Also Alis *does*; specifically, a Beley IIRC. You were saying...?

I don't really see how that would be somehow mutually exclusive. That's like saying you can't have both weapon camos and nonstandard Mags for ex.

See, let me get one thing straight here. I never made any complaints like that, and rather don't appreciate being lumped in with everyone else. It's lazy and ignorant to just assume that everyone complaining about something does so for the same reason. My complaints are entirely separate from the "too cute" crowd, that we're getting magical woodland-esque pets instead of something that looks like a mag or a PB, which is already established as fulfilling a very similar role to what Summoner's pets can do, while still fitting PSO2's aesthetic. You could just adjust the pets so that they were just oversized mags or undersized PBs and it would be perfect. No adjustment to how cute they are is necessary in the slightest (though admittedly they wouldn't look very cute if they had PB-esque glowing bodies). Summoner pets are something entirely separate from anything else we've seen yet somehow can be used by ARKS, can use photons, and came from somewhere we've never seen before. The only explanation I can think of for them that would fit within PSO2 is that they were pets that Photoners kept or something. And if that's how they actually are within canon, then sure, that's fine. But as it currently is, it fits about as much as making a playable Rappy race.

Alis and the other Orakio NPCs are closer to cameos or collab characters than actually canon characters, so they don't really count. While they do have minor plot relevance, they're still made by someone outside the usual design team. Same with their mag. At least it still somewhat looks like a mag though, unlike say, the Nyau, Rappy, or Shark mags.

And I never said that pet and baton camos would be mutually exclusive, just that the camos that Summoner is getting on its debut are batons. There is currently no evidence that we'll be seeing pet camos, and while I wouldn't doubt that we would get some, there's simply no confirmation that we will get such a feature.

[KLMS1]

Summoner pets are something entirely separate from anything else we've seen yet somehow can be used by ARKS, can use photons, and came from somewhere we've never seen before. The only explanation I can think of for them that would fit within PSO2 is that they were pets that Photoners kept or something. And if that's how they actually are within canon, then sure, that's fine.

I seem to recall ARKS biotech could fabricate a teleporting, Darker eating artificial dragon the size of a small house more or less out of whole cloth, oh and chimerise Humans and Newmans with Darkers (or something) to turn them into Dewmans...
...and you're finding photon-using 'working animals' hard to handwave?

Uh-huh.


Alis and the other Orakio NPCs are closer to cameos or collab characters than actually canon characters, so they don't really count.

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

[sesiom000]

I don´t have a problem with the Pets being cute since the mags are basically cute devices (Cute Luther Mag,Sd Virtual On LOL,Quebeley and so on).
And guys SEGA is not forcing you to play with the new class i wont use it but people may like it so im fine with the addition like im fine with the Hello Kitty Collaboration despite not liking Hello Kitty.
You guys are forgetting this is an online game its designed for all types of person and not just for one.



If you want my thoughts on it, I think it looks ridiculous. I've never enjoyed pet classes, nor the fantasy of it. I do like the idea of fighting with unique and exotic creatures, or commanding a powerful being to lay waste to my enemies. And this class does none of these things.
The animations look overly frilly, the summons look overly cutesy, and the gameplay looks overly complicated. Not a fan.

And to answer Zorafim that wants FF stuff or fish stuff in here il remind you that your playing PSO2 not Final Fantasy 15, if you want Leviathan go play Final Fantasy 15 but i forgot to tell you that´s not even a Pet...
That just shows that you´re only flaming the class...

[Zorafim]

That just shows that you´re only flaming the class...

Did your mother forget to hug you this morning?

[sesiom000]

Did your mother forget to hug you this morning?

Its a prank bro!

[LonelyGaruga]

I seem to recall ARKS biotech could fabricate a teleporting, Darker eating artificial dragon the size of a small house more or less out of whole cloth, oh and chimerise Humans and Newmans with Darkers (or something) to turn them into Dewmans...
...and you're finding photon-using 'working animals' hard to handwave?

Uh-huh.

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

Luther killed off most of the Void Facility in 2-5 so yeah. Both the production of Chrome Dragons (which are just guinea pigs, the ability to teleport and eat darkers was granted by a separate experiment intended to replicate 2nd generation Claris' ability to absorb darkers, which obviously didn't go quite as planned) and the dewman race were also done under Luther's orders, and both procedures were very inhumane. And seriously, bringing up a skeletal/insectoid dragon that grows spiked body parts and eats darkers and a race that's specifically created through an inhumane and painful procedure involving merging humans with darkers to justify Summoner's pets is like...what. Especially when the same group that did this stuff made mags and PBs, the same things I'm suggesting that Summoner's pets should more strongly resemble.

I don't see how I'm moving goalposts when Alis explicitly states that she and the other Orakio NPCs are from another planet (Orakio is the culture they're from, the planet is unnamed), that they're just visiting to learn about ARKS, and it's likely that ARKS will never encounter said planet. They also all have some basis on PSIII characters (besides Alis who's based on PSI's protagonist). The way I see it, the only thing that makes them more canon than a character like Nagisa is the fact that Alis is a permanent addition to the ARKS lobby, and that is being exceedingly technical.

Though honestly Beley is so similar to a default mag design-wise it probably could be interpreted as a canon mag design as made by the artist that did those characters, so the whole thing is pretty moot.

[sesiom000]

Though honestly Beley is so similar to a default mag design-wise it probably could be interpreted as a canon mag design as made by the artist that did those characters, so the whole thing is pretty moot.
Following your thought:"Wanda Pet is so similar to Tagami Kazuchi it could be interpreted as cannon, the same with Torim Pet is so similar to Tyraluda Darker it could be interpreted as cannon and finally Sully Pet is so similar to Nyau it could be interpreted as cannon."
They are cannon even if your not willing to accept it the same you had to do back when the rappys where introduced or the lilipas where introduced on PSO.
Its not the players that make something cannon its the developer beyond it SEGA, its the same that Disney did with the majority of Star Wars Comics not being cannon anymore...
SEGA made it cannon being it cute or ugly for each of our tastes doesn't change the fact that its still cannon...

[KLMS1]

Luther killed off most of the Void Facility in 2-5 so yeah.

Pretty sure the ten or so lickspittles he snuffs for the evulz (and only too likely because he's frankly sick of their inane fawning) are just his senior-management "inner circle" of trusted lackeys. Void itself obviously has to be a far larger outfit, not to mention former members like Aki.

And as the defunct Vopar facility amply demonstrates the whole lot wasn't exactly conscentious about erasing data either - not that they really needed to anyway, given Luther's influence. (His colossal arrogance presumably didn't help.)

Besides, the *entire current Fleet population* is descended from the products of large-scale genetic engineering; hard to see why anyone would have burned the related notes and general technical know-how, all he more so as some pretty advanced biotech is per definitionem necessary if you want to traipse about as many completely different ecosystems as the the ARKS job description requires without a laundry list of unpleasant and undesirable side effects.
Like horrendous epidemics at both ends of the exchange.

So, yeah. Not seeing why you're having trouble wrapping your head around the idea of the ARKS gengineering a bunch of photon-active warbeasts (however cutesy); Hell, at least half the planets visited in the game have *wildlife* capable of using the stuff to speak nothing of the more sentient natives (recall that the Council had no problems using a modification of Sukuna-hime's Braided Ash ritual *on the first try*...) so it's not like they couldn't just pick promising critters off some planet as the starting point, anyway.


Both the production of Chrome Dragons (which are just guinea pigs, the ability to teleport and eat darkers was granted by a separate experiment intended to replicate 2nd generation Claris' ability to absorb darkers, which obviously didn't go quite as planned) and the dewman race were also done under Luther's orders, and both procedures were very inhumane. And seriously, bringing up a skeletal/insectoid dragon that grows spiked body parts and eats darkers and a race that's specifically created through an inhumane and painful procedure involving merging humans with darkers to justify Summoner's pets is like...what.

Not sure if intentionally missing the point or...
:nono:
Hadred and the Dewman transformation procedure are just the envelope-pushing extreme edge of the biological manipulation canonically possible in the setting. Breeding glorified attack dogs for a budding K-9 branch analog should be orders of magnitude easier and for obvious reasons rather less fraught with inconvenient, secrecy-requiring controversy. Probably simple enough to not even be of interest to the mad scientists at Void and duly farmed out to less rarefied and secretive organisations anyway.
Biological manipulation of organisms to better serve the interests of people is literally Stone Age tech after all.


Especially when the same group that did this stuff made mags and PBs, the same things I'm suggesting that Summoner's pets should more strongly resemble.

Except Mags have a distinctly machine-like appearance whereas the pets are very clearly animals. You're basically trying to argue cheese should look like chalk. (Or to take the simile further, that horses should look like cars.)


I don't see how I'm moving goalposts when Alis explicitly states that she and the other Orakio NPCs are from another planet (Orakio is the culture they're from, the planet is unnamed), that they're just visiting to learn about ARKS, and it's likely that ARKS will never encounter said planet. They also all have some basis on PSIII characters (besides Alis who's based on PSI's protagonist). The way I see it, the only thing that makes them more canon than a character like Nagisa is the fact that Alis is a permanent addition to the ARKS lobby, and that is being exceedingly technical.

You're retroactively changing your argument in the face of evidence invalidating it. This is the very definition of moving the goalposts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts#Logical_fallacy).

Alis is an NPC, has a Mag, and said Mag is "nonstandard". Whether *you* consider her "canonical" or not is wholly irrelevant because you only made it a criterion ex post facto.


Though honestly Beley is so similar to a default mag design-wise it probably could be interpreted as a canon mag design as made by the artist that did those characters, so the whole thing is pretty moot.

This bears no relevance to the topic whatsoever.

[TaigaUC]

You all probably already know this, but a Phantasy Star fan JP friend was telling me something about Orakio being mentioned before in the original Phantasy Star games, or something?

I wouldn't know, as I only previously played PSO1.

[Zorafim]

Orakio? I can say for certain that name isn't used in PSI or PSIV, and I can say for certain that there is no japanese culture in PSII or PSIII. So I'm going to say that it's new to the PS series.

[yoshiblue]

Phantasy Star III

[LonelyGaruga]

This bears no relevance to the topic whatsoever.

And very little of what's actually been argued about has any relevance to my complaints about Summoner to begin with. I should have stopped replying the moment you started accusing me of saying things I never said like Summoner pets being "too cute". Way too much of a waste of time replying further so whatever.


Orakio? I can say for certain that name isn't used in PSI or PSIV, and I can say for certain that there is no japanese culture in PSII or PSIII. So I'm going to say that it's new to the PS series.

As mentioned above, it's from PSIII. The Orakio characters aren't Japanese in either game, too. They were just a group of people that followed a guy named Orakio in PSIII, and in PSO2 the ones seen are a group of people that wear skimpy leather clothes.

[Zorafim]

Ah, I was thinking of that japanese planet. What's that called?

[KLMS1]

And very little of what's actually been argued about has any relevance to my complaints about Summoner to begin with. I should have stopped replying the moment you started accusing me of saying things I never said like Summoner pets being "too cute". Way too much of a waste of time replying further so whatever.

Allow me to directly quote what would appear to be your pet-related complaints in this thread:
[SPOILER-BOX]

What.

They look nothing alike outside of being "cute". If the summons actually did look like enlarged mags then they would actually be getting much more positive reception. As it currently stands, the summons look like they would fit in some woodland fantasy story, while mags look like robot pets.

Though personally speaking I don't mind it that much. Would prefer almost anything else though, but who knows, maybe pet appearance camos will be added later in the future.


The issue with Summoner is that people are comparing a class with other things and not other classes. Sure there's plenty of cute stuff, but none of those are strictly enforced into a class.[/SPOILER-BOX]

That's certainly close enough to straight-up complaining about them being "too cute" to make the difference quite academic and your getting your knickers in a bunch over it rather questionable. (That or you need to work on your phrasing.) I declined to comment further on this earlier because it didn't seem a strand of discussion worth pursuing, but since you've reduced your argument to that... :-?

[LonelyGaruga]

Ah, I was thinking of that japanese planet. What's that called?

Harukotan.


That's certainly close enough to straight-up complaining about them being "too cute" to make the difference quite academic and your getting your knickers in a bunch over it rather questionable.

Don't you have anything better to do?

[Totori]

Why dislike something that's cute?

[Vintasticvin]

Why dislike something that's cute?

Because its cool and Westerners want something big strong manly and Final Fantasy epic sized screen filling summons twice the size of Zeshie/Turtle Darker?

[Hysteria1987]

Why dislike something that's cute?

That's gonna come back to that East vs. West mentality thing that was in the TvTropes link someone posted earlier. It basically said that due to different values between the cultures, cuteness is something that can certainly be prized in the east, but the exact opposite is true in the west- it's seen as immature and altogether too gooey and nasty outside of certain contexts (kids TV shows, for instance).

At the risk of causing everyone to lose a few hours again, here's the link that was posted:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmericanKirbyIsHardcore

[AkuTenshiiZero]

That's gonna come back to that East vs. West mentality thing that was in the TvTropes link someone posted earlier. It basically said that due to different values between the cultures, cuteness is something that can certainly be prized in the east, but the exact opposite is true in the west- it's seen as immature and altogether too gooey and nasty outside of certain contexts (kids TV shows, for instance).

At the risk of causing everyone to lose a few hours again, here's the link that was posted:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmericanKirbyIsHardcore

Again, to argue against this point, it's not that it needs to be hardcore. It's that it needs to fit into the visual theme of PSO2. If Woofda actually looked like, say, a tamer-looking Gulf, that would make sense and would be really cool. It would be like we had domesticated an actual animal via the power of photons or what have you.

Also, since I never did respond to the last guy, I have to confess my ground is getting shakier than ever because this shit has been pouring into PSO2 like so much diarrhea. But there was a time when Rappies were the silliest thing in the game, and being a bonus enemy thrown in for laughs and free Grinders I'm not gonna complain. Woofda the reject Pokemon is the face of an entire class, a class that has to stand beside te existing classes. Go look at the cutscenes that were released to showcase prior major updates, which served to showcase new classes. They look like serious battles with badass warriors fighting threatening monsters in exotic locals.

Now replace that with a fucking floating puppy fighting blue zombies in Tokyo. I'm not asking PSO2 to be hardcore. PSO2 was already hardcore. I'm asking it not to become a complete joke.

[Tunga]

epic sized screen filling summons twice the size of Zeshie/Turtle Darker?
Who wouldn't want to summon some vol or chrome dragons over some silly pets? Arks version of Goronzoran, sega pls.

[sparab]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/rVkj74r.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Someone please tell me this picture is fake

[kurokyosuke]

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/rVkj74r.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

Someone please tell me this picture is fake

What's wrong with it?

[sparab]

Summoner sub class grow:
Increase your subclass EXP gain in quest (main class only)

[AkuTenshiiZero]

What's wrong with it?

Everything in the tree is crammed to the left and makes the tree super long, barren on the right, and really poorly balanced since you can't have build variety when everything is in a straight sequence.

Though, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that's not the completed tree. Probably a beta version.


Summoner sub class grow:
Increase your subclass EXP gain in quest (main class only)

Eh, every class in every game needs a completely crap noob-trap skill to make you feel like you've saved points by skipping it.

[Kondibon]

Someone linked this in that news thread. https://twitter.com/BBAnoEiyuu/status/686078209469759488

Can we talk about this instead of whether or not the pets should be cute or not?

[Hysteria1987]

I just came on here to talk about that... of course, I came on to mention that it looks too much like a My Little Pony for me, but moving right along :-P

Looks like this might be a 'safe' class to play- if you control your pet from a distance, you won't be in harm's way. Might be an 'easy' class to play?

[AmanoMai]

It's that it needs to fit into the visual theme of PSO2.

pso2 visuals :

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/knT06hX.jpg?1[/SPOILER-BOX]

[lunamaniac]

Someone linked this in that news thread. https://twitter.com/BBAnoEiyuu/status/686078209469759488

Can we talk about this instead of whether or not the pets should be cute or not?

Could the blue circle represent just attack timing?

[Kondibon]

Could the blue circle represent just attack timing?I think the blue circle is just to help keep track of where your pet is while it's attacking. They only hit the attack button once but the circle stays there, and in all the trailers showing it the circle was there for way longer than just attack timing and didn't change between attacks.


pso2 visuals :

[SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/knT06hX.jpg?1[/SPOILER-BOX]

To be fair, all of those were created by players.

[wefwq]

Could the blue circle represent just attack timing?
Doubt it, since the button icon on the bottom doesn't flash, so that means the entire time pet performing attack player don't push any button except the very first command issued for pet to initiate attack.

[Petunia]

How to Fix Summoner and make everyone love it.

1) Change pets for unique Mags
2) Summoner name changed to something like Mag Master

Done. I think that's all they'd need to do. Why have cute animal pets when this is PSO2? We should have cool mini-robot pets. Using this, they could even bring us pets that resemble PSO and PSU Android characters as Weapon Camo's.

I still wanna give Summoner a try, but I just feel like after 4 years of them pushing everything to be futuristic that making a class centered around fleshy, cute animals is weird. We already have a pet-type thing, it's called a Mag. So just make Summoners attack using specialized Mags that are built specifically for combat rather than support.

Bonus points if the Mag can use YOU as a Photon Blast


And honest to Christ, the class doesn't even look that well designed on top of it. Japanese MMOs never have gotten the hang of pet classes.
Final Fantasy 14: A Realm Reborn. Arcanist/Summoner and Scholar all work great. Scholar is a friggin pet-based HEALING CLASS! And it's God tier. Same goes for Final Fantasy XI.
But those are made by Square so those are probably exceptions.

[SilkaN]

I don't care if you and SEGA don't give a bucket of cold piss about canon, but some of us do, and EP4 is proving to be the critical point where this horse crap goes too far.

Naturally, you are allowed to voice to your opinion, but I think this thread should focus on Summoner gameplay instead.
All these pointless complaints about the new content "not being Phantasy Star-like" and too cutesy are absolutely redundant.
If you really dislike this new direction so much, do the Maenara or give it a try.

[TaigaUC]

I thought how to fix Summoner and make everyone like it would be:
1. Allow all animals to be used as pets.
2. Add an alternate weapon that doesn't feel like Harry Potter.
3. Use other forms of food than just candy.

The whole candy thing pretty much cements that any future pets will also be super cutesy and not some battle-hardened beast.

I don't really have an issue with the cute pets being out of place so much that they look boring and/or unappealing.
I mean, if everyone had Rappies as pets, nobody would mind. Rappies are cute, too.

@Kondibon
Not sure what to look at in that video. The "pet stuck to shoulder" thing Zyrusticae complained about stood out a lot to me.

[untrustful]

Besides, I'm sure we'll see not only a angry purple dragon, but also a robot pet, maybe a robot monkey.

[Rakurai]

It looks as though all of Summoner's active skills require a pet, so the only things it has to offer as a subclass are the stat boosting skills, PB Advance, HP Restorate, and Massive Mate.

[final_attack]

Well, I do wonder that AttackHighUp of Summoner ....
I wonder how much it'll give .... since the stances (some?) seems to affect pet only.

I wonder if the Stats HighUp can be used to make Summoner a subclass ._.

[TaigaUC]

Are pets main only? Because it sounds like everyone's referring to them that way.
I'm assuming pets are bound to the Baton.

[Zorafim]

I will say. I will take back every bad thing I've said about this class if the summons we've seen are just the lv1 summons, and they get progressively better looking as time goes on.

[KLMS1]

I will say. I will take back every bad thing I've said about this class if the summons we've seen are just the lv1 summons, and they get progressively better looking as time goes on.

Simlar to how Mags evolve? That'd be objectively pretty neat really.

[Alucard V]

You had one job summoner class.

http://psp2.psupedia.info/images/c/c0/MS500.png

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/3/32/Hero%2C_Nuetral_and_Dark_Chao_QUALITY_.png/revision/latest?cb=20110918164259

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/7/7c/Yacker.png/revision/latest?cb=20100916154943

Well that's only half true. I do think the Pet aesthetics clash with PSO2 over all. Tho it's a F2P I'm sure there will be new Pets skins. Aside from that I can't really think of anything to say about it mechanically. I mean it's more or less an expansion of the Tails mechanics. If anything the Pets should have been Chubi versions of Helix, Ketos, Ilios, Julius, and Ajax. Or have the Pet effected by it's own Photon Burst.

[lostinseganet]

We already have mags they should have focused hard on MAG interacting with the player. We also have partner machines too They should have focused on those

[wefwq]

We already have mags they should have focused hard on MAG interacting with the player. We also have partner machines too They should have focused on those
Well, at least they're using support partner for story, once.

[yoshiblue]

Really wish Mags would be more involved in the story.

[KLMS1]

There's several partnerable NPCs that don't get even blue eventfields you know. (Which put them below *Reda* in this regard.) Shouldn't duly come as a surprise that something that's never presented as anything more than a mindless support drone gets about as much screentime as a random piece of furniture.

[pkemr4]

i was expecting it to be like imagine onlines demon system...