Why most rangers dont use launchers? [Archive]

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domadoma80

Feb 13, 2016, 07:14 AM

and use rifles most of the time

Kondibon

Feb 13, 2016, 07:25 AM

Rifle has stronger burst damage PAs, and is easier to hit stuff from long range with. That said, I'm pretty sure people still use launchers for mobbing most of the time.

landman

Feb 13, 2016, 07:37 AM

Other than rodeo and playing flame-thrower does it have any uses? grenade + rifle is good enough mobbing.

Dammy

Feb 13, 2016, 07:41 AM

lul flamethrower?
charged divine launcher for the win
+ cosmo breaker in some situations

landman

Feb 13, 2016, 07:50 AM

Playing flamethrower, key word "playing", not necessarily against mobs :wacko:

Z-0

Feb 13, 2016, 07:56 AM

Other than rodeo and playing flame-thrower does it have any uses? grenade + rifle is good enough mobbing.
Yes, Launcher with Divine Launcher, Cluster Bullet and Cosmos Breaker is far better mobbing than Rifle. It's stronger for starters, and has far more range and versatility than Rifle and Grenade.

Furthermore Grenade has a cooldown, you can't expect to keep mobbing with it.

Rendezvous

Feb 13, 2016, 08:28 AM

For me, the turn off is the slow attack speed and the animations.

If I want to mob, I can always fall back to GU unless my MPA needs WB.

Zeroem

Feb 13, 2016, 10:48 AM

Using launchers would limit you from using RA's biggest tool and support for MPA. Weak Bullet.
And unless you have the Bullet Keep on your skill tree, dual-using rifles and launcher would made you erase the WB bullet stock.

RA as a sub would pretty much limit the player to use rifle only, unless they wanted to throw away the WB reserves (due to Bullet Keep being Main-class only).

jooozek

Feb 13, 2016, 10:50 AM

because they never played quake multiplayer :wacko:

TaigaUC

Feb 13, 2016, 11:32 AM

I played Quake multiplayer alot. I miss the original launcher. Felt great.
But there's a reason why they kept nerfing it throughout the series.

Korima

Feb 13, 2016, 11:34 AM

I play Launchers with the Zero Distance PA and the Gunner Skills for close combat.

They need a buff though.

TaigaUC

Feb 13, 2016, 11:42 AM

Launchers in PSO2 feel too slow and unsatisfying for me.
Especially if you compare to stuff like Backhand Smash, Satellite Cannon, Torim Spiral or End Attract that bust out such huge numbers easily.
You'd expect explosive missiles to give much larger numbers, with less effort.
For example, most people here are probably aware of Fallout 4's nuke launchers? Now that's a launcher.

I think Zero Distance is the most satisfying Launcher PA. Feels so good. It needs to send enemies flying miles away.
I wish PSO2 had ragdoll physics for enemy corpses.

Something fun I noticed in Bloodborne is that if you kill enemies with a fire attack, they have a unique "help I'm on fire!" dying animation.
Flame Bullet would be fun if enemies started screaming and rolling around on the floor after being hit.
More interesting reactions would go a long way to making Launcher feel more powerful.

Poyonche

Feb 13, 2016, 11:44 AM

Because Rangers don't use launchers, they use lawnchairs. :wacko:

Kondibon

Feb 13, 2016, 11:58 AM

Something fun I noticed in Bloodborne is that if you kill enemies with a fire attack, they have a unique "help I'm on fire!" dying animation.
Flame Bullet would be fun if enemies started screaming and rolling around on the floor after being hit.You would love GW2.

Neith

Feb 13, 2016, 12:21 PM

Korima

Feb 13, 2016, 12:24 PM

I actually really like Concentrate One, very decent damage and tracks fairly well. Cosmos and crafted Divine Launcher are well worth using too.

Using Rifle all the time feels so dull; sure End Attract and a few other PAs are nice but it almost exists purely as a tool for Weak Bullet. I think the class is much more fun if you mix it up a bit, despite Sega's intention to make it 'the Weak Bullet class'.

Also Sega needs to add a skill for rangers like "Quick Switch" you can see in FPShooters because I like to switch between the Rifle and the Launcher but swap weapons is so slow.

silo1991

Feb 13, 2016, 12:30 PM

launchers are good vs minions . but rifles are better vs bosses

jooozek

Feb 13, 2016, 12:47 PM

Also Sega needs to add a skill for rangers like "Quick Switch" you can see in FPShooters because I like to switch between the Rifle and the Launcher but swap weapons is so slow.

you mean swapping to last used weapon or instant toggle to a weapon? if the latter it's already in game, you just need to move to japan :wacko:

aiMute

Feb 13, 2016, 01:16 PM

Valimer

Feb 13, 2016, 01:42 PM

Because launches are shit? Single target its complete shit no discussion, multitarget you restore more than enough PP with trap mastery and grenades and you use the same grenade to gather a spawn and kill it with end attract or smth, no need for launcher. Also using launcher means getting another weapon, grinding it and unlocking potential and this weapon is not worth it. Last point is that Ra is wb slu-support class and if you want stupid high damage and decent mobbing ability you just go cheesy Gu.

I love rokkit launchas in other games but in PSO2 its almost useless.

I pretty much agree with this. The launcher shines in some specific situations, but single target is trash if your Zero Distance or cosmo breaker don't hit a weak spot.

I think if they made it so the launcher could hit multiple parts of an enemy then that could make up for how slow it is.

Tunga

Feb 13, 2016, 01:58 PM

Because Rangers don't use launchers, they use lawnchairs. :wacko:

Exactly no ranger wants to play Cut grass online 2.

On-topic: lawnchairs are the most boring weapon to use with all the other range weapons following it imo. I went to GuRa because its a lot more fun rolling in the air and what not. Plus chain trigger with rifle( the whole reason i use even have a r atk character anymore).

Z-0

Feb 13, 2016, 02:04 PM

I'm gonna have to ask:

What on Earth are you guys doing with Rifle that supposedly makes them better at mobbing? Grenade has a 15s cooldown and doesn't even have much range anyway, and rifle sucks at headshotting a lot of stuff lol

MiPHISTo

Feb 13, 2016, 02:05 PM

None of you are very good at playing Ranger, huh? Rifles are specifically for Bossing. Launchers are for mobbing, as they have high-damage AoE. Rifles have One Point, Diffuse Shell, End Attract, and they all pale HEAVILY in comparison to crafted Divine Launcher.

Launchers are the best mobbing tool that Ra's have, along with Gunslashes (Additional Bullet). Sega buffing One Point has promoted cancer for Rangers. Sad day.

Eos

Feb 13, 2016, 02:06 PM

Bellion

Feb 13, 2016, 02:06 PM

Is being poor a reason to not use a Launcher now? Dang, that's a new one.
Do players not manually aim? Is that why they think Launchers suck? The amount of players that cannot use a Launcher is quite astonishing.

Using a Rifle for everything is a terrible idea, good grief.

Edit: Welp, nice timing, lol.

HentaiLolicon

Feb 13, 2016, 02:26 PM

I only use lawnchair when soloing XH free fields. When running in 12/12 MPA, mobs will just die before i can actually finish them off myself ( the power of gangbang) but, lawnchair is fun to use.
To those who say lawnchair sucks, lemme give you something
[SPOILER-BOX],,!,,[/SPOILER-BOX]

Evangelion X.XX

Feb 13, 2016, 02:28 PM

I think one of the main reasons why players think Launcher sucks is because they simply don't know you have to use in TPS mode for it to be effective.

jooozek

Feb 13, 2016, 02:36 PM

i doubt they don't know, it's more about it being a pain in the ass if you don't use a mouse and aren't precise enough with a gamepad, gamepad + ranger becoming the true wb slave pretty much sums up why i don't play ranger since almost 3 years :wacko:

Tunga

Feb 13, 2016, 03:38 PM

If you don't main Ra . Is there a need for lawnchairs when you have a bunch of forces to carry you until a boss rolls along?

Unnamed Player

Feb 13, 2016, 03:40 PM

I only use launcher when I absolutely have to hit stuff from above like for Micda or Spardan, for everything else I usually use something different. I don't like how slow launcher is (especially in MPAs) however, I wouldn't use rifle for mobing unless I'm up against stuff like centaurs or I'm doing some quests in normal mode.

+ ranger becoming the true wb slave pretty much sums up why i don't play ranger since almost 3 years :wacko:Well, they could fix this issue by giving us a WB skill ring.

Korima

Feb 13, 2016, 03:55 PM

Also someone know where to find the Lv17 Divine Launcher? because 75 Lvs + 4 Bonus skill points and I never find one, Today I run two Darkers'es Nest and I found A LOT of Lv17 PA for other weapons except for launchers.

TaigaUC

Feb 13, 2016, 04:13 PM

I can't even sell my launchers for a damn pittance, so I don't think it's a price problem.

You would love GW2.

I tried GW2 when it first came out. Every name was taken.
Bots running everywhere. Nearly every NPC looked the same.
Hated how everything felt in general. Quit.

I remember being frustrated at how there were a billion face? options but only 1 or 2 weren't horribly ugly.
Like, why would anyone pick any of the other options?
Dragon's Dogma (the original) is kinda like that too. 99% gigantic massive crooked twisted noses, deformed other parts, etc.
They could have just put in the slider they used to make those ugly parts.

Kondibon

Feb 13, 2016, 05:20 PM

I can't even sell my launchers for a damn pittance, so I don't think it's a price problem.

I tried GW2 when it first came out. Every name was taken.
Bots running everywhere. Nearly every NPC looked the same.
Hated how everything felt in general. Quit.

I remember being frustrated at how there were a billion face? options but only 1 or 2 weren't horribly ugly.
Like, why would anyone pick any of the other options?
Dragon's Dogma (the original) is kinda like that too. 99% gigantic massive crooked twisted noses, deformed other parts, etc.
They could have just put in the slider they used to make those ugly parts.I was just commenting on the "enemy death animation changing depending on what you kill it with" thing.

Para

Feb 13, 2016, 05:57 PM

Putting distance between yourself and mobs can be hard because of monsters moving very fast and having good gap closing animations.

Grenades and traps are needed but there are situations where they are just not enough to help.
If your crowd control misses a single monster and don't have massive hunter, there's a chance the monster will cancel your launcher attack which then eats up more time.

Like others pointed... Launchers require space, setup and time is needed to create space and setup. Sometimes there is not enough time which makes launchers a bit too situational to be effective. End Attract is easier to manage and setup.

aiMute

Feb 13, 2016, 06:53 PM

So in the end launchers are too slow for MPAs (you're there for wb and carry), and too unwieldy for solo play (Gu is superior when it comes to soloing). So unless you're diehard tryhard solo Ra like Soro you wont ever need launchers.

TaigaUC

Feb 13, 2016, 07:08 PM

Yeah. I just wanted to whine about my awful GW2 experience.
I don't understand why most games still don't let people pick the names they want.

Not much else to add to the whole Launcher thing.
SEGA will probably look at the numbers and buff Launcher in some way sooner or later.
Maybe if they remember the existence of the PA customization system.

Xaelouse

Feb 13, 2016, 07:13 PM

They acknowledged PA customization and Ultimate recently, actually

TaigaUC

Feb 13, 2016, 07:16 PM

Oh? In the last event or something?
What did they say?

Xaelouse

Feb 13, 2016, 07:24 PM

In 電撃PlayStation Vol 607, they just said to wait for a future update.

TaigaUC

Feb 13, 2016, 07:27 PM

Sounds exciting.

yoshiblue

Feb 13, 2016, 07:43 PM

Think bringing back unique attack animations would change anything? Then again, this game isn't based around normal/heavys like PSO was.

Mattykins

Feb 13, 2016, 07:49 PM

>all of these people saying they don't use launchers as a ra or think they suck

[SPOILER-BOX]http://replygif.net/thumbnail/100.gif[/SPOILER-BOX]

This is why English players have a bad reputation

Zeroem

Feb 13, 2016, 07:59 PM

Well to be fair, there's still this 'RA= WB slave' mentality going around between players; and somewhere along the road it evolved into "RA with launchers? Get out." mentality. It's usually there in EQ, but somehow spread into non-EQ parties as well. Which is why I mentioned earlier about Bullet Keep. With that, RA should have the safety net for their WB reserves in situations where WB is highly sought.

And I think people that prefer Rifle over launcher doesn't meant that they don't use launchers at all. The case within the game are most likely:
- People who only use rifles do exist, but that's the extreme case.
- Some RAs are probably 60% Rifle and 40% Launcher
- The rest have bigger percentage of launcher uses.

At the end of day, most of the reason would probably narrowed down to preferences

Xaelouse

Feb 13, 2016, 08:11 PM

Launcher doesnt see much use at all in relevant content. They really are just too slow.
I have over 1k gold badges from the LQ and I've yet to see a Launcher being played by a RA

Infinity Series

Feb 13, 2016, 08:21 PM

Launcher doesnt see much use at all in relevant content. They really are just too slow.
I have over 1k gold badges from the LQ and I've yet to see a Launcher being played by a RA

I bring launcher to LQ, usually just spamming cluster bullet. :wacko:
But yeah i rarely see other RA main use launcher in LQ, usually they just spamming end attact for mob and boss. ^^;

I have 2 RAHU characters, and both of them possess *13 launcher.

Really wish they buff cluster bullet again, nerfing it was a bad idea.

escarlata

Feb 13, 2016, 08:26 PM

I dont understand some ppls' logic sometimes:
"I don't like launcher, it is too slow for me to charge Divine Launcher while moving!"
> proceeds to charge EA for a longer period of time while stationary for a much smaller AOE

The only slow thing about launcher is the normal attack, but even that can be sped up with dive roll shoot
Divine Launcher is sooo good in mob-heavy contents, especially in conjunction with Launchers that has high TAtk considering Nifta charges in 3-4 DL

NoobSpectre

Feb 13, 2016, 08:46 PM

Well, it doesn't really help launchers when:
a) your lazers are not stronk enuffff.... than a charged piercing magic boollet (yes, EA).
b) you must be a wb slafu when EQ (but truth for boss EQ)
c) The attempt to rise lawnchair values at EP3 new ranger skills got pummeled by EP4 new ranger skill.

Ahem, pardon my slang.

Still hyped for non-existence Cluster Shot craft.

Korima

Feb 13, 2016, 08:53 PM

Launcher doesnt see much use at all in relevant content. They really are just too slow.
I have over 1k gold badges from the LQ and I've yet to see a Launcher being played by a RA

I was playing that with my Launcher all the time BUT it seems Sega doesn't want my skills go up after the "The Perfect Ranger IV" so now I only switched class to Level Up my Gunner to give more R-ATK boost to my main class.

Mattykins

Feb 13, 2016, 08:56 PM

>use launcher on mobs
>switch to rifle for boss
>if you don't have bullet keep you're doing it wrong

And if you're not hitting consistently high numbers with crafted Divine Launcher, you're doing it waay wrong.

AlphaBlob

Feb 13, 2016, 08:59 PM

lrn 2 aim

Ordy

Feb 13, 2016, 09:17 PM

"Why most rangers dont use launchers?"

Because most of them are terrible, can't WB, can't aim in free-aim mode, never dive roll and spam EA like a pre-nerf Shunka BR.

I was going to elaborate my thoughts, but fuck that. I don't have LonelyGaruga's patience to change people's mind about launchers, especially when I think it's a lost cause. This thread is like a gun control debate.

sph83

Feb 13, 2016, 09:28 PM

How about some players can't afford to have 13* rifle and 13* launcher or just a decent launcher for XH ?
Of course RA should use launcher for mobing but don't forget that for most players who don't really main RA > first thing to get is a 13* rifle before launcher.
Today i played in different LQ XH where some rangers couldn't even get a decent rifle... or using some 13* with 15 or 20%.
About the "can't aim in free mode" don't forget that some ppl use pads so they can't be as efficient as mouse users just sayin.

Mattykins

Feb 13, 2016, 09:33 PM

I'd still use a 11* launcher over a 13* rifle for mobbing :T And I've seen people aim decently with pads. If you're using a gamepad and you can't aim well, you're playing the wrong class.

AlphaBlob

Feb 13, 2016, 09:35 PM

About the "can't aim in free mode" don't forget that some ppl use pads so they can't be as efficient as mouse users just sayin.
I use pad and I have no trouble aiming where most enemies will be and where the weakspot are, you know you can adjust your free aim camera speed right?

Evangelion X.XX

Feb 13, 2016, 10:00 PM

You should ALWAYS be in Free/Z aim mode when using launchers.

They'll know the diameter if they play the class and actually use the crafted PA; it's seriously not rocket science, man.

But, yes, playing ranger requires you to be more strategic; positioning/setting-up is more important than brute-braindead-force; some people prefer the braindead-ed playstyle.

sparab

Feb 13, 2016, 10:03 PM

Ra without launchers are like Br without bows

Mediocre

Tunga

Feb 13, 2016, 10:04 PM

I don't care if they have a lawnchair or not. The only thing you need to know is if they WB/boss and do it right. Everything else a RA does is irrelevant.

Bellion

Feb 13, 2016, 10:04 PM

It's not a fair comparison if you don't have a Rifle and Launcher in a similar tier of power. Anyone that is saying Launcher sucks but their weaponry is like an Austere Rifle vs something like a Red Scorpio really shouldn't have a say, sorry. Even then, the Red Scorpio would still come in handy.

As a pad player, I can manually aim just fine for mobbing. My Orbit Launcher definitely beats the hell out of my Austere Rifle in solo and MPAs for mobbing a majority of the time. It's a matter of getting used to it and having the approximate PA range engraved in your mind.

None of the "Launchers sux!" players even bothered to mention using Kreisenschlag/Addition Bullet on a gunslash for mobbing as an alternative. When there are multiple RAs this is definitely a good alternative for mobbing. Of course, this is comparing weapons that aren't too far apart from each other, again.

Mattykins

Feb 13, 2016, 10:09 PM

Yeah, even if you don't like launchers, just spam Additional Bullet. It's not ideal, but it's still better than mobbing with a rifle.

sparab

Feb 13, 2016, 10:16 PM

And I still fail to understand why would Ra use gunslash after we had bullet keep

Naska

Feb 13, 2016, 10:16 PM

Launcher in pso2 feel like Rocket Launcher in Team Fortress, the damage is dumbed down for balance purpose. I mean, a rocket launcher can't even deal as much damage as a rifle (or a knuckle even), that's just plain bad.

Naska

Feb 13, 2016, 10:18 PM

And I still fail to understand why would Ra use gunslash after we had bullet keep

Queen Vera. And gunslash is a better mobbing tool in low difficulty or any place where using Launcher would be overkill.

Bellion

Feb 13, 2016, 10:22 PM

Don't underestimate Kreisenschlag shots now. Just wait until they implement the GS Bulletkeep. :- )

sparab

Feb 13, 2016, 10:23 PM

Queen Vera. And gunslash is a better mobbing tool in low difficulty or any place where using Launcher would be overkill.

One point is enough to melt most trash below VH, if you have a 13* rifle

JCry

Feb 13, 2016, 10:26 PM

This thread is awesome. I wanna get a Orbit Launcher and play Ra main now.

Tunga

Feb 13, 2016, 10:33 PM

Just wait until they implement the GS Bulletkeep. :- )

If only bullet keep worked with all range weapons.

Flaoc

Feb 13, 2016, 11:30 PM

yea man launchers suck why would anyone ever use them on mobs

[SPOILER-BOX]
+20 ares launcher RAHU (team buff, strike, weak hit) why yes i was hella buffed doesnt matter launchers still hit like a truck with base shifta drink and 100% the way to go when mobbing)
http://grabilla.com/0620e-5552ab87-d158-4a81-b5bd-006893854130.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

Sacrificial

Feb 13, 2016, 11:59 PM

Most comments here triggered the only 1% of elitism I have left for this game. Launchers take some time to get used to since their PA animation actually starts from the nose of the barrel. This means most launchers have different min-max ranges.

Launchers have slightly fallen out of favour since chain spawn killing was nerfed by my understanding. Then again I'm only playing casual now so Im not sure if it is still the case.

Also the reason you don't see a lot of rangers with launchers out is,because it only takes 1 pa,to,take out a group. So why deal with the slow animation after it if you can just switch to rifle the oick up the left over with a fast single target rifle Pa. Then switch bsck to launcher for the next big spawn wave.

Enforcer MKV

Feb 14, 2016, 12:18 AM

...Meta be damned, I just like being able to move when I shoot. >>;

aiMute

Feb 14, 2016, 02:08 AM

Well, simply saying "I like launcher, you suck at using it" isn't really gonna convince anyone, so how about maybe a video of someone using a launcher in mpa and solo (aka compared to superior Gu) to see how really useful it is?

Selphea

Feb 14, 2016, 03:21 AM

Xaeris

Feb 14, 2016, 04:31 AM

This thread is absolutely amazing for so many reasons.

Lumpen Thingy

Feb 14, 2016, 05:05 AM

This thread is cancer. If you don't use a launcher as a ranger you fucking suck end of story.

TaigaUC

Feb 14, 2016, 05:20 AM

I dont understand some ppls' logic sometimes:
"I don't like launcher, it is too slow for me to charge Divine Launcher while moving!"
> proceeds to charge EA for a longer period of time while stationary for a much smaller AOE

Doesn't EA charge and Divine Launcher charge depend on how good a customization you randomly get?

I guess I generally don't like how heavy/slow/unsatisfying launcher feels. Long reload too.
I didn't think of "slow" in terms of "charge time". It's stuff like the regular shots.
I don't really like having to Dive Roll Shoot or Crazy whatsis to get JA.
Anyway, even JP friends who played PSO1 etc said they don't like how PSO2's launcher feels, so I don't think I'm being stupid or something.

If you can deal with how it feels then I'm sure it can be viable.
I think that for most people, it's a matter of how they feel towards launcher compared with whether they would simply prefer to use a different weapon.

Something else that annoys the hell out of me:
I sometimes see one of my friends trying to hit flying enemies with regular launcher shots and constantly missing.
In that case it makes more sense to use rifle.

sph83

Feb 14, 2016, 05:22 AM

I've never said that pad players can't aim... i said "they can't be as efficient as mouse players", that's a fact. I'm using a pad and i've never had problem to aim but i also tried mouse+kb. it's common sense, it's like playing a fps/tps with mouse/kb or pad.

sparab

Feb 14, 2016, 05:46 AM

EA does not have customization and divine zero has a fixed charge time

Surely Ra don't need to clear mob if the muti is decent and causal would just bring a rifle (and bad WB). For solo intensive players, launcher is your most trustworthy friend when getting swarmed. Just roll into a bunch, fire some cosmo and watch they melt, with style

escarlata

Feb 14, 2016, 06:01 AM

Doesn't EA charge and Divine Launcher charge depend on how good a customization you randomly get?

I guess I generally don't like how heavy/slow/unsatisfying launcher feels. Long reload too.
I didn't think of "slow" in terms of "charge time". It's stuff like the regular shots.
I don't really like having to Dive Roll Shoot or Crazy whatsis to get JA.
Anyway, even JP friends who played PSO1 etc said they don't like how PSO2's launcher feels, so I don't think I'm being stupid or something.
EA charges in 1 second intervals, with 55%/90%/100% of its notation for uncharged/level 1 charge/level 2 charge.
Divine Launcher charges in 1 second regardless of customisation, all customisation affects is PP cost and damage.

I guess it cant be helped if you dont like to DRS, but it does make launcher gameplay much more fluid, allowing you to JA quicker and cancel excess animation. Orbit also goes a long way in solving the problem of low PP regen from normal attacks; spam a few cosmo, then dance somewhere for PP while your cosmos melt mobs away

Ordy

Feb 14, 2016, 07:55 AM

The impression I get is not many people run Ranger outside of boss EQs in the first place. When I was doing LQ and Choco as Gu main I was pretty much main WBer. Since there's no Katana Bullet Keep, a Ranger won't be able to get to squishy XH mob spawns fast enough to get anything meaningful done anyway. I just follow the shing-shing sounds and collect loot $_$

Last time I played XH EQ/UQ/LQ I was able to land plenty of +100k damage hits on mobs, being more useful than a BR with my gravity bombs and having a stronger CC than a BR with my Cosmos. How fast you can get to the next spawn shouldn't be relevant to how well a class compete against others. And a Divine Launcher missile will always travel faster than any Guren dash BR.

I guess I generally don't like how heavy/slow/unsatisfying launcher feels. Long reload too.
I didn't think of "slow" in terms of "charge time". It's stuff like the regular shots.
I don't really like having to Dive Roll Shoot or Crazy whatsis to get JA.
Anyway, even JP friends who played PSO1 etc said they don't like how PSO2's launcher feels, so I don't think I'm being stupid or something.

If you can deal with how it feels then I'm sure it can be viable.
I think that for most people, it's a matter of how they feel towards launcher compared with whether they would simply prefer to use a different weapon.

Something else that annoys the hell out of me:
I sometimes see one of my friends trying to hit flying enemies with regular launcher shots and constantly missing.
In that case it makes more sense to use rifle.

How somebody feels towards a weapon/class and spreading nonsense about the effectiveness of launchers are two different things (don't take it personally).
If some Hunters said "I don't like swords, the playstyle feels too slow, so I'd rather use WL and Partizans" ... would it be acceptable to let them shitpost about how swords are useless, how swords need a buff or "eh, look at me, I can Guren Tessen"?

Now about your "JP friends" who played PSO1 and don't like launchers on PSO2: it's been said a countless number of times - PSO1 and PSO2 are NOT the same game, people should stop the pointless comparisons. It gets even more retarded when people try to weigh pso2 launchers against launchers in other games because ... they have..the same name?!

What's next? Let's ask the NFL to use round balls in football, because I played basketball and man, round balls are so much better than egg-shaped ones!

I've never said that pad players can't aim... i said "they can't be as efficient as mouse players", that's a fact. I'm using a pad and i've never had problem to aim but i also tried mouse+kb. it's common sense, it's like playing a fps/tps with mouse/kb or pad.

Here is another "fact": Bellion is a pad user and aims better than the majority of M+KB Rangers out there, me included. It's a matter of "git gud" ... and seriously, it's not like killing mobs in pso2 was even close to get FPS frags (ー_ー;)

This thread is cancer. If you don't use a launcher as a ranger you fucking suck end of story.

Me, yesterday in team chat:

2016-02-14T01:50:27 || GUILD || ordnas || threads like "Why most rangers dont use launchers?" are like a cancer

jooozek

Feb 14, 2016, 09:00 AM

this thread is cancer because this game is cancer :wacko:

Naoya Kiriyama

Feb 14, 2016, 09:05 AM

Mattykins

Feb 14, 2016, 09:11 AM

Yeah, honestly, I don't think launchers are that hard to learn. They don't require as much precision as launchers and there's no shortage of AoE.

There's some passable cheapo launchers out there. If all else fails, get a Red. It's not hard to grind a 7* and you really only need 3 boosters and like 2m meseta to make a red weap good.

As for damage, it's a mobbing weap, fuck. Rifle rolls high numbers because it's made for tearing down bosses with a lot of HP. All launcher needs is a few good hits and a bunch of mobs should melt. I'm not even that hard of a hitter; using a Xie launcher and crappy 75 R-ATK units, and yeah, I have to whip out a WB on chunkier mobs here and there when I solo XH, but for the most part, it works for me >:T

Yeah, it's not the best mobbing weap, but we can't all be Forces and Fighters, aye?

Unnamed Player

Feb 14, 2016, 09:24 AM

While lauchner is definitely a decent mobbing tool the only thing it's necessary for is the Cluster Bullet PA, everything else can be accomplished by other means.

TaigaUC

Feb 14, 2016, 10:34 AM

How somebody feels towards a weapon/class and spreading nonsense about the effectiveness of launchers are two different things (don't take it personally).
If some Hunters said "I don't like swords, the playstyle feels too slow, so I'd rather use WL and Partizans" ... would it be acceptable to let them shitpost about how swords are useless, how swords need a buff or "eh, look at me, I can Guren Tessen"?

Now about your "JP friends" who played PSO1 and don't like launchers on PSO2: it's been said a countless number of times - PSO1 and PSO2 are NOT the same game, people should stop the pointless comparisons. It gets even more retarded when people try to weigh pso2 launchers against launchers in other games because ... they have..the same name?!

What's next? Let's ask the NFL to use round balls in football, because I played basketball and man, round balls are so much better than egg-shaped ones!

I thought the topic was why Rangers don't use Launchers.
I don't think I was talking about effectiveness so much as why people don't find Launchers attractive.
I brought up JP friends mentioning PSO1's Launchers being better because they enjoyed them more in PSO1, for whatever reason. Not just because they are stronger in other games.
Is there something illegal on this forum about referring to actual Japanese friends? I'm not allowed to talk about them?
I didn't say my other friends because quite frankly I haven't asked them what they thought about Launcher.

Apparent effectiveness compared to the other available weapons is just one of the reasons why someone might not find Launcher attractive.
Within that "effectiveness" is also how that person set up their Launcher, and how easy they felt it was to get good results compared to whatever else they have.
These are a lot of factors at play here, and you should know that.
Besides, I'm pretty sure the word I used was "feel", not "effectiveness".

I know how to use Launcher somewhat well. I Z-aim, I've done TA runs and AQ runs solo with Launcher. I'm not the best out there, obviously, but I'm not an idiot.
I still don't like how they feel, and I personally don't get the same effectiveness out of them as other weapons I use.
I don't think I ever said anything like Launcher is "crap at mobbing" or a "crap weapon" or whatever. If I did, then I'm sorry for implying so.
I'm not perfect. I can't always express myself clearly and concisely. Language is also prone to misinterpretation.
I just think there are things SEGA could do to make Launchers more fun and attractive to more people. Is that really such a bad thing?

If the topic is why Rangers don't use Launchers, and people enjoyed Launchers more in PSO1, then it's not "irrelevant" to imply that the changes they made to them in PSO2 have made them less attractive.
The PSO1 and other game references are examples of other instances where Launchers as a weapon type are more attractive.
Those examples could be used to get more people to try Launcher.

Here's an example of something relevant:
One of my friends loves Partisans/Glaives in Demon Souls and Dark Souls.
But he hated how they were changed in Dark Souls 2. It's the same series (to Dark Souls 1), the same weapon type, but they play completely differently.
He hates it so much he wanted to quit the game early. He didn't even bother doing the DLC that he bought.
How is it "irrelevant" that they changed a type of weapon that some people enjoyed, into something that they don't like as much? In the SAME SERIES?

PSO2 is the sequel to PSO1. It's not the "same game" per se, but it's the same series.
People actually go into the sequel of a game expecting to enjoy their favorite weapon, you know.
Are you going to bitch about MaiDoll's comics comparing previous PS game Hunters to PSO2?
It's a completely valid complaint if their favorite weapon type is implemented in an unattractive manner, especially if it was done well in a previous game in the SAME SERIES.

And your football basketball example makes zero sense because it's a completely different sport.
If you wanted to give a better example, you should have described a situation where "If Football got a sequel called Football 2 and the rules were suddenly completely different in an unappealing manner".

I don't think a thread like this is essentially cancer. The thread opener was asking a valid question.
I just came up with some reasons why I and people I've talked to about the same topic don't personally like Launcher, based on our personal impressions and experiences.
The real cancer is people coming into this thread, getting offended, attacking and dismissing other people's opinions and accusing them of implying things that they didn't say, or didn't mean.
What happened to that whole "free speech" thing that people are always going on about?

If you want to point out that Launchers are great for you, then go ahead. Nothing wrong with that.
But the thread is asking "WHY MOST RANGERS DON'T USE LAUNCHERS". It's not asking "why Launcher mains like Launchers".
The fact is a lot of people don't seem to use Launchers. Whether Launchers are great for you doesn't change that.

One last thing: I'm well aware I asked for tips on how to improve on using Launchers in another thread.
I took all of that into consideration when I wrote my posts. That's why I didn't outright say Launchers are crap, because you already proved me wrong.

@Re: Gamepad/Mouse/KB argument:
I've been using mouse/keyboard since I was little years. I used to be pretty great at FPS aiming with mouse.
I started playing console gamepad aiming stuff recently. Took a little getting used to, but I'm fine with it now.
In general, I can switch between control types for various games without losing much effectiveness, if at all.
So, I don't think it's impossible for someone to be great at or better than others at any particular control method.

Kondibon

Feb 14, 2016, 10:50 AM

I'm with Taiga on this. The thread is supposed to be about why people do or don't use launchers, not whether or not they're worth using.

Eos

Feb 14, 2016, 10:59 AM

Many rangers don't use launchers because they are bad. Are we done with the thread now?

TaigaUC

Feb 14, 2016, 11:28 AM

This is why I don't like to check for replies whenever I write anything anywhere.
It's usually someone getting unnecessarily offended or reacting excessively negatively.
By all means though, please do correct me if I ever say anything factually incorrect.

End Attract is probably more attractive (see what I did there?) because it's easy to slap WB and one shot a bunch of fat bosses with it.
Probably similar to why people prefer End Attract over Banish Nemesis nowadays. It's easier to set up than WB -> Chase Arrow -> Banish -> Nemesis -> Whatever.
I feel like it's easier to get a good Rifle too, but maybe that's just me. Oh yeah, and Rifle is also used between Gunner and Ranger, so there's that.

Selphea

Feb 14, 2016, 11:42 AM

Last time I played XH EQ/UQ/LQ I was able to land plenty of +100k damage hits on mobs, being more useful than a BR with my gravity bombs and having a stronger CC than a BR with my Cosmos. How fast you can get to the next spawn shouldn't be relevant to how well a class compete against others. And a Divine Launcher missile will always travel faster than any Guren dash BR.

I was kidding :wacko: but seriously speaking I do use Launcher if I main Ra in a quest with lots of mobs.

Yes an epic Divine Launcher that manages to headshot a fully broken Malluda, break one of the balls on the Malluda beside it and take out all the adds around them is pretty great, probably in the neighborhood of 1 million damage in a single shot without WB when everything is added together.

But I cannot deny the Guren dasher will still most likely parse higher because they started doing DPS first and Divine Launcher can't curve around corners or travel up a slope and back down again. Given similar gear and skill levels ofc.

And that's ok because trash is trash and if someone wants to dash ahead and oneshot them 1 second earlier then so be it. The ones that typically slow the MPA down and make me waste booster time are the bosses and tougher trash.

Cyber Meteor

Feb 14, 2016, 11:49 AM

Many rangers don't use launchers because they are bad.

In fact that's because so many ppl spread that idea they were bad, that when someone will ask about using Launcher that's the response he'll usually get. I play a lot with Launcher, but the thing is, as other said before, Launcher are mostly mobbing weapon, no matter how you cut it Rifle will outclass Launcher on bosses, but rifle will usually be outclassed on mobs above a certain number of them at the same time, which mean for small groups, both will do good, for very huge group (not zondeeled) Launcher will still perform better than rifle.
However, End Attract kinda broke this rule with his high dmg and short charge time while Sphere Eraser, despite looking like it could acheive same purpose (as Penetrate arrow or EA) , didn't got the high dmg it should have, so as of now, it's like having Piercing shell for launcher instead of EA for Launcher, which made Rifle a good alternative now on XH for mobbing.
Before End Attract, during EP3 (not before), ppl had no real reasons to prefer Rifle over Launcher for mobbing (the idea Launcher was bad was already spread because of EP2 though), but now with End Attract it's 50/50. Also, another funny fact: Kuron quest was purposely made to be unpractical with Launcher ( in XH mode) and EA basically made that quest easier to clear in XH. That certainly could mislead some ppl about the deal "Rilfe VS Launcher for mobs" and thus we still see lots of rifle Rangers, and few Launcher Rangers ^^;

In short, make Sphere Eraser have EA or Satellite Cannon dmg, and you'll see more ppl using Launcher.

Para

Feb 14, 2016, 12:00 PM

I think the other reason that could be justified why people do not use Launchers is that... why use launchers when you can play Force? :wacko:

Ordy

Feb 14, 2016, 12:04 PM

Is there something illegal on this forum about referring to actual Japanese friends? I'm not allowed to talk about them?
I didn't say my other friends because quite frankly I haven't asked them what they thought about Launcher.

Illegal? I used the quotation marks on "JP friends" because I can't see why in this particular case, your friend's ethnicity would matter in the slightest.

I don't think I ever said anything like Launcher is "crap at mobbing" or a "crap weapon" or whatever. If I did, then I'm sorry for implying so.

I quoted your post, but also said: "How somebody feels towards a weapon/class and spreading nonsense about the effectiveness of launchers are two different things (don't take it personally)."

The "spreading nonsense" was mainly reaction to this:

Because launches are shit? Single target its complete shit no discussion, [...] Last point is that Ra is wb slu-support class and if you want stupid high damage and decent mobbing ability you just go cheesy Gu.

I love rokkit launchas in other games but in PSO2 its almost useless.

So in the end launchers are too slow for MPAs (you're there for wb and carry), and too unwieldy for solo play (Gu is superior when it comes to soloing). So unless you're diehard tryhard solo Ra like Soro you wont ever need launchers.

Launcher doesnt see much use at all in relevant content. They really are just too slow.

PSO2 is the sequel to PSO1. It's not the "same game" per se, but it's the same series.
[...]
It's a completely valid complaint if their favorite weapon type is implemented in an unattractive manner, especially if it was done well in a previous game in the SAME SERIES.

I think that's just your point of view. I personally think the exact opposite. PSO1 and 2 share the same story background, lots of weapon/tech types, mags and that's it ... That's why I don't understand why some people on pso2 can get butthurt about the implementation of some pso1 content. I played PSO ep1&2 on DC/GC, loved my spread needle, not going to quit because the weapon is a camo or that pso2 freeze isn't as good as pso1 one.

Nevertheless, I can understand that it could matter to some nostalgic players.

I don't think a thread like this is essentially cancer. The thread opener was asking a valid question.

But the thread is asking "WHY MOST RANGERS DON'T USE LAUNCHERS". It's not asking "why Launcher mains like Launchers".
The fact is a lot of people don't seem to use Launchers.

The real cancer of this thread are the posts I quoted above (about launchers being shit and useless), I wouldn't like to see them spread in people's mind like a cancer.

== My last post in this thread, because IMO everything has been said ==

Unnamed Player

Feb 14, 2016, 12:07 PM

In fact that's because so many ppl spread that idea they were bad, that when someone will ask about using Launcher that's the response he'll usually get. I play a lot with Launcher, but the thing is, as other said before, Launcher are mostly mobbing weapon, no matter how you cut it Rifle will outclass Launcher on bosses, but rifle will usually be outclassed on mobs above a certain number of them at the same time, which mean for small groups, both will do good, for very huge group (not zondeeled) Launcher will still perform better than rifle.
However, End Attract kinda broke this rule with his high dmg and short charge time while Sphere Eraser, despite looking like it could acheive same purpose (as Penetrate arrow or EA) , didn't got the high dmg it should have, so as of now, it's like having Piercing shell for launcher instead of EA for Launcher, which made Rifle a good alternative now on XH for mobbing.
Before End Attract, during EP3 (not before), ppl had no real reasons to prefer Rifle over Launcher for mobbing (the idea Launcher was bad was already spread because of EP2 though), but now with End Attract it's 50/50. Also, another funny fact: Kuron quest was purposely made to be unpractical with Launcher ( in XH mode) and EA basically made that quest easier to clear in XH. That certainly could mislead some ppl about the deal "Rilfe VS Launcher for mobs" and thus we still see lots of rifle Rangers, and few Launcher Rangers ^^;

In short, make Sphere Eraser have EA or Satellite Cannon dmg, and you'll see more ppl using Launcher.EA is still usually outclassed by simply spamming AB when it comes to mobbing.

Flaoc

Feb 14, 2016, 12:10 PM

Asuka~

Feb 14, 2016, 12:13 PM

Unnamed Player

Feb 14, 2016, 12:18 PM

the problem is that i go into lq or tokyo and all rangers do is wb mobs and one point absolutely everything that moves. even jp rangers are doing thisI've never seen this one, not even once.

jooozek

Feb 14, 2016, 12:21 PM

this thread really starts to make me want to play ra/fo :wacko:

Kondibon

Feb 14, 2016, 12:33 PM

this thread really starts to make me want to play ra/fo :wacko:
Someone did that way back before 13* and element conversion came out iirc.

TaigaUC

Feb 14, 2016, 12:50 PM

I went and asked the irrelevant location friend to confirm their opinion.
They said that in PSO1 launcher attack explosion would damage multiple parts.
Whereas in PSO2 if you don't get a headshot the damage is significantly lower.
I asked if they felt that PSO1's felt better and they said yes.
They also said that even amongst Japanese players, they find it strange that a weapon like a launcher needs to hit a weak point like the head to deal significant damage.

Edit: While I was writing that, they said a bit more. I'll try to translate it quickly.
They said people who like Launchers expect a weapon that explosively blows enemies away.
Despite this, Launcher in PSO2 feels considerably weak, even when compared to Rifle, and they are very dissatisfied with this.
If you use Divine Launcher to blast enemy's legs, they take less damage than if you shoot Rifle One Point at their head.
Even just by looking at the effect and such, any way you look at it, Launcher should do more damage.

Edit2: They said something else that's worth writing here. They said that under the right conditions Launcher can deal a lot of damage.
But under the same conditions, Rifle deals more damage. If Launchers did more damage, everyone would use Launchers against bosses.
But there are no Rangers that do that. Everyone knows that Rifles are stronger, that's why they use Rifles.
There are lots of ways to gather enemies. As long as you gather enemies, it will result in the same circumstances.
In multi-area, enemies are gathered like this by others, and so Rifle is better in that situation as well.

So... there you go.

Just to emphasize, I'm not just asking any random person. This person has always been on the ball and knows what they're talking about.
I can't prove to any of you why I trust this person. But nobody said you can't still doubt their points.
Regardless of who they are or whether they are reliable or not, I think they have valid points.
Like I said, there's nothing wrong with expressing your personal opinion and experience.
One of the primary reasons I'm quoting this person is because I don't have immense confidence in myself.
It feels like if I just express my personal lone opinion, people will dismiss me as being insane or stupid.
If I'm not the only one who feels this way about Launcher, then there is probably an issue worth considering, yes?

Anyway, I am busy and need to get stuff done, not going to argue about this.
Just expressing why I and people I know personally don't enjoy Launcher as it is now, and why we've enjoyed Launchers elsewhere.
If you enjoy PSO2's Launcher then great. That doesn't seem to be the popular opinion, but not like popularity matters.
I'm only concerned with improving stuff. If it can become better, I don't care how many people are involved.

Tl;dr: It's fact that Launchers aren't popular, and I don't know why anyone would be against making them more fun.

Kondibon

Feb 14, 2016, 12:53 PM

They also said that even amongst Japanese players, they find it strange that a weapon like a launcher needs to hit a weak point like the head to deal significant damage.

So... there you go.This is part of why I want WHA to be re balanced. 3:

The other part is because I want more skills to work with more damage types.

Cyber Meteor

Feb 14, 2016, 01:47 PM

IIf Launchers did more damage, everyone would use Launchers against bosses.
But there are no Rangers that do that.

Well...... I do use Launcher on bosses.......... rarely though, it's mostly when i want to change from rifle meta on bosses and when doing that won't really impact mpa's dps or for SH bosses, and i don't do that on boss EQs (well, i was using Launcher on Loser, then he took End Attract in the clock ^^;, as always EA messing with player's fun.....(PS: i know it sucks))

TaigaUC

Feb 14, 2016, 02:13 PM

Just thought of something I should have said before:
If you're using Launchers effectively now, then you are probably a better player than I am.
That's what I've always felt, so don't get upset at me for whatever I've said about not personally liking Launchers.

Bellion

Feb 14, 2016, 02:31 PM

I'm sure every decent Ranger knows by now that a Rifle is greater when mobs are concentrated in one location. Do you know what the problem with this is? This implies someone is actually willing to work with you to gather enemies up in the first place. It happens often enough in organized groups but can you truly say the same thing about PUGs?
The Rifle excels against single targets/concentrated mobs, this is not debatable. No one has ever said anything about Launcher being better against single targets/concentrated mobs in the first place.

Launchers in this game have always been about the aoe and not single target damage. Launchers against mobs scattered around will be better than Rifles against mobs scattered around because of their aoe and reasonable damage balanced around that aoe.

Now, damage being balanced around WHA for Ra is something else. It forces you to be precise and not just aim anywhere to call it a day. I've always hated WHA since I first played this game, but it's not going to change so I'll just deal with it.

Personally not liking Launchers is entirely separate from just saying they flat out suck. Saying you think they're too slow or you like moving and shooting? That's understandable.
I don't mind uploading a recording but I'd really like to see one from the "Launcher sux" perspective. It would be interesting to see how they use one. I always upload random crap anyway and can deliver at any moment.

sph83

Feb 14, 2016, 03:49 PM

Here is another "fact": Bellion is a pad user and aims better than the majority of M+KB Rangers out there, me included. It's a matter of "git gud" ... and seriously, it's not like killing mobs in pso2 was even close to get FPS frags (ー_ー;)

Can you read properly ? because i don't recall saying pso2 needed a godly aim like cs.
I just gave an exemple about free aiming, if you are not able to understand that mouse will always have an advantage over pad, i can't do anything for you...

Maybe i should have added "generally" pad players can't be as efficient as mouse players, happy now ?

Bellion

Feb 14, 2016, 04:04 PM

Yeah, there's no way a pad player can match the precision of a KB+M player when they both know what they're doing. I'm planning to switch to KB+M myself after I'm done with laptop toaster life.

Fortunately this game doesn't need pin-point precision for much of the content.

Tunga

Feb 14, 2016, 05:14 PM

You don't even need to be good at aiming with launchers. Point and click at the general direction and stuff will die. launchers (from my exp) require little to no effort to use. Then again this is pso2 we're talking about :wacko:

escarlata

Feb 14, 2016, 05:28 PM

If you use Divine Launcher to blast enemy's legs, they take less damage than if you shoot Rifle One Point at their head.
Even just by looking at the effect and such, any way you look at it, Launcher should do more damage.

There are lots of ways to gather enemies. As long as you gather enemies, it will result in the same circumstances.
In multi-area, enemies are gathered like this by others, and so Rifle is better in that situation as well.
Even if enemies are gathered, it is still easier to headshot every single target with a single Divine Launcher rather than EA, considering EA needs every target to be facing you, and of the same height, whereas Divine only needs them to be in the explosion to get WHA.

Charmeleon

Feb 14, 2016, 05:33 PM

Charged Divine Launcher headshots almost anything shorter than a Cyclo/Kuklonahda just by shooting the ground near them, doesn't require too much effort.

It's not really hard to keep up with MPAs with launchers either even without PAs like Guren. I can keep up fine in LQ as RA/HU by just walking.

aiMute

Feb 14, 2016, 05:39 PM

I quoted your post, but also said: "How somebody feels towards a weapon/class and spreading nonsense about the effectiveness of launchers are two different things (don't take it personally)."

The "spreading nonsense" was mainly reaction to this:

You're the nonsense, how about answering question or presenting a video or something concrete other than "My personal opinion is launchers are good and who think otherwise are spreading nonsense" (like most other launcher lovers here).
I just ran MPA with a person wielding 13* (60) launcher. Guess what damage parser showed? Launcher user did as much damage as 11* knuckle user and only 1/2 that of 13* Gu. Yes you can kill stuff with it, but by the time your launchers actually hit something it is already dead. Rocket faster than Guren? Guren can switch targets and is all-in-one noob skill that can kill packs and solo mobs, launchers can only kill packs, are slow and you'll switch to rifle wasting time to switch.

From what I see here it's defending useless weapon without comparing it to viable alternatives and applying to real scenarios all that including all-time-favorite personal bias.
And for those scenarios we have:
tacos
MPA like LQ mpa (aka boss + monsters with Te or Fo around to zondeel)
boss
solo
shaqs
What tools we have:
Launcher
Rifle
TMG
(BBow?)

Reasoning pleasu~

Edit2: They said something else that's worth writing here. They said that under the right conditions Launcher can deal a lot of damage.
But under the same conditions, Rifle deals more damage. If Launchers did more damage, everyone would use Launchers against bosses.
But there are no Rangers that do that. Everyone knows that Rifles are stronger, that's why they use Rifles.
There are lots of ways to gather enemies. As long as you gather enemies, it will result in the same circumstances.
In multi-area, enemies are gathered like this by others, and so Rifle is better in that situation as well.

So... there you go.

Exactly what I meant by launchers being shit. You can use them but why would one use them.

vantpers

Feb 14, 2016, 05:47 PM

Unnamed Player

Feb 14, 2016, 05:51 PM

You can use them but why would one use them.Because Cluster Bullet is the best PA to hit enemies from above for decent damage.

aiMute

Feb 14, 2016, 06:37 PM

I guess damage parsing a random person in your MPA and comparing them to some other random person is a valid scientific method of declaring which weapon is stronger. I really need to get some Ares/Invade 13* for Katana and Rod to make Force and Braver look bad.

Hey, I asked launcher luvers to gimme something concrete and the only thing I get is statements of personal bias. Let them use damage parser and give me average (or even better a video) because launcher users are very very very rare.

sparab

Feb 14, 2016, 06:44 PM

because launcher users are very very very rare.

I've played 50%+ raid boss this year and haven't seen a single launcher user, confirmed

Bellion

Feb 14, 2016, 10:01 PM

jooozek

Feb 14, 2016, 10:09 PM

the real winner anyway is...

[SPOILER-BOX][SPOILER-BOX][SPOILER-BOX][SPOILER-BOX][SPOILER-BOX][SPOILER-BOX][SPOILER-BOX][SPOILER-BOX][SPOILER-BOX][SPOILER-BOX][SPOILER-BOX]http://i.imgur.com/Ttjgsds.png[/SPOILER-BOX][/SPOILER-BOX][/SPOILER-BOX][/SPOILER-BOX][/SPOILER-BOX][/SPOILER-BOX][/SPOILER-BOX][/SPOILER-BOX][/SPOILER-BOX][/SPOILER-BOX][/SPOILER-BOX]

sparab

Feb 14, 2016, 10:55 PM

the real winner anyway is...

Su needs some serious nerf, right?

http://i.imgur.com/VtlKwR8.png[/SPOILER-BOX]

[S]And still no launcher buff since 2015

TaigaUC

Feb 14, 2016, 11:14 PM

I usually use Launcher when I don't want to use up my Weak Bullets.
But I haven't been playing Ranger much.

Something I wanted to say:
If a thread seems like it's becoming cancer, it's not necessarily the topic but the way people in it post, ie. the things they write.
I think everyone already knows this, but a lot of threads degenerate into arguments about what's stronger, who's right/wrong, or whatever.
And a lot of people post in unnecessarily aggressive, angry, rude tones.

I don't know if anyone's noticed, but when I write posts on here, I try to remain civil and reasonable.
I could just as easily abuse people and rage, but I don't like to do that.
I try not to offend people, but people LOVE getting offended nowadays. Let's not forget that offense is "taken" not "given".

Anyway, it might be a good idea to ask yourself if the way you're talking to people rubs them the wrong way.
Assuming your goal is reasonable intelligent discussion, and not trolling for flame wars.
Not addressing anyone specifically, just a general thing.

I like to think that treating people nicely gets them to treat you nicely back, but it doesn't seem to work that way in reality.

Kondibon

Feb 14, 2016, 11:17 PM

I don't know if anyone's noticed, but when I write messages on here, I try to remain civil and reasonable.

I noticed. o/

It's part of why when I first harassed you I tried to explain that your biggest problem would be being misunderstood rather than people thinking you're mean.

TaigaUC

Feb 14, 2016, 11:26 PM

Thanks. My entire life has basically consisted of me being misunderstood, so I think you are correct.

Anyway, not going to read/post in this thread anymore because I'm pretty sure everything's been covered.
And I really have to get some work done.

Enforcer MKV

Feb 14, 2016, 11:28 PM

I usually use Launcher when I don't want to use up my Weak Bullets.
But I haven't been playing Ranger much.

Anyway, something I wanted to say:
If a thread seems like it's becoming cancer, it's not necessarily the topic but the way people in it post, ie. the things they write.
I think everyone already knows this, but a lot of threads degenerate into arguments about what's stronger, who's right/wrong, or whatever.
And a lot of people post in aggressive, angry, rude tones.

I don't know if anyone's noticed, but when I write messages on here, I try to remain civil and reasonable.
I could just as easily abuse people and rage, but I don't like to do that.
So if you're going to come into one of these threads and say it's cancerous, maybe ask yourself if the way you're talking to people rubs them the wrong way.
Not addressing anyone specifically, just a general thing.

I like to think that treating people nicely gets them to treat you nicely back, but it doesn't seem to work that way in reality.

That's just how a lot of forums end up when they've been around for a while. Especially when there's a split in how the community feels. Some people take the game much more seriously than others, care about different things.

It's why I can run around as Ranger/Techer and enjoy myself while others who've never even played with me call me a shit player when nothing I've ever done has affected them.

Backwards world we live in.

sparab

Feb 14, 2016, 11:36 PM

Why not make some suggestive comments, like ideas for next launcher PA customization?

Concentrate: fire 3 rapid shots, cannot switch direction
Cluster: charge to increase area of effect
Cracker: 1.5x damage on breakable parts
ZeroDis: fire at current location, charge to step forward as usual
Rodeo: hold down PA button to drive a longer distance
CSmash: increase knock back distance, a lot
Fake: dummy uses war cry when created
Flamebullet: 135 degree but decrease range
Cosomo: increase bullet's speed and hit detection
SEraser: doubles damage and laser size per 100 PP usage, apply multiple times

Selphea

Feb 15, 2016, 12:04 AM

Crafted Zero Distance - aims downwards and propels the user upwards :D

Aine

Feb 15, 2016, 12:28 AM

I don't use launchers because I like my gameplay to be fast and furious

Tunga

Feb 15, 2016, 12:52 AM

Crafted Zero Distance - aims downwards and propels the user upwards :D

Combine this with Rabo for extra dmg from shifta air :wacko:

ArcaneTechs

Feb 15, 2016, 01:27 AM

cheeto

Feb 15, 2016, 01:27 AM

MightyHarken

Feb 15, 2016, 01:30 AM

id like to know in the end where this mentality that rifles now beat launcher at mobbing came from seriously cause its not even true in the slightest. the real problem is not even people using end attract on mobs like its better than launcher the problem is that i go into lq or tokyo and all rangers do is wb mobs and one point absolutely everything that moves. even jp rangers are doing this

As a ranger, sometimes I feel lazy to swap to my 13* launcher and I just wb stuff and OP, are we supposed to always play "seriously" now?

as for the thread, launchers are awesome mobbing with the right PA's, here's a few tips
use crafted divine launcher, cluster bullet and concentrate one.

First, do a nrmal attack and do the JA to get the SS bonus, now jump and shoot the CDL in the middle of the horde (or wherever they're looking at) to hit the weak point, finish off remaining enemies with concentrate one. If enemies have weak points in their heads, replace CDL with cluster bullet and spam it even if you lose some damage.

For quick mobbing small stuff, I highly recommend getting Yasminkov7000v with moving snipe pot and just spam diffuse shell, low pp cost, you hit above 40k per second if you have decent gear.

That's basically it.

Do I think launcher needs a few fixes? yes, yes I do. Sphere eraser needs a huge damage buff or lower pp cost per tick. (initial 30pp + 15pp per tick).

I also believe launcher should have better attacks for killing uuhh for example just 1 big monster, something that consumes a small amount of pp but hits decently enough and quick. Zero distance doesnt quite nail it, it just seems to hit bodies more than weak points and sometimes you miss bc everything is always running towards you, one way to fix this would be to make ZD just travel the distance needed to reach the next enemy, instead of going through it.

MightyHarken

Feb 15, 2016, 01:35 AM

MightyHarken

Feb 15, 2016, 01:36 AM

I mean, if launcher is supposed to be the anything but bosses weapon by excellency, than it should be way more effective than rifle in this sense.

Zeroem

Feb 15, 2016, 02:40 AM

Woah, this goes south real fast......and actually kind of derailed itself from what TC's asked in the first place. Like, somewhere along the way wrong buttons are pressed and the topic derailed into numbers and what's right/wrong. While the opening question did not asked about numbers and rifle vs launchers at all.

......I don't even know how to 'elegantly' add more things in this topic for many reasons.
Also because whatever I was going to say are already typed in one form or another by others.

Why not make some suggestive comments, like ideas for next launcher PA customization?

Concentrate: fire 3 rapid shots, cannot switch direction
Cluster: charge to increase area of effect
Cracker: 1.5x damage on breakable parts
ZeroDis: fire at current location, charge to step forward as usual
Rodeo: hold down PA button to drive a longer distance
CSmash: increase knock back distance, a lot
Fake: dummy uses war cry when created
Flamebullet: 135 degree but decrease range
Cosmo: increase bullet's speed and hit detection
SEraser: doubles damage and laser size per 100 PP usage, apply multiple times

I liked some of this. Especially the Flamebullet :3
Though, I'd have some differences on my (imaginative) launchers PA customization ideas.

Concentrate: fire 5 rapid shots, cannot switch direction
ZeroDis: can be charged to go straight toward the target, Heartless-Impact style
Cosmo: smaller blast radius; but cheaper PP cost and faster fly speed.
SEraser: only hit once, but can be charged to maximize the damage. The more you charge, the more PP would be used, but it would also increase the damage

NoobSpectre

Feb 15, 2016, 02:45 AM

This is one of the best post I have seen in this thread, why is no Rifle fans replying to this?

Actually one of my same reaction, though I never get one.

Why not make some suggestive comments, like ideas for next launcher PA customization?
Concentrate: fire 3 rapid shots, cannot switch direction
Cluster: charge to increase area of effect
Cracker: 1.5x damage on breakable parts
ZeroDis: fire at current location, charge to step forward as usual
Rodeo: hold down PA button to drive a longer distance
CSmash: increase knock back distance, a lot
Fake: dummy uses war cry when created
Flamebullet: 135 degree but decrease range
Cosomo: increase bullet's speed and hit detection
SEraser: doubles damage and laser size per 100 PP usage, apply multiple times

Conc one: maybe.... no comment cuz rarely use it.
Cluster: well I prefer damage or the hitscan duration up (like from 0.4s to 1s, for example.
Cracker: distance up? breakable parts seems so bouncer.
Zero Distance: Hug your Lawnchair and become the bomb yourself (but of course, not self damaging)
CSmash: Charge to increase knockback distance and power, golf pls.
Fake: larger dolls that actually helps deflecting projectiles and larger boom.
Flamebullet: hmm maybe 40% burn proc chance. [SPOILER]Yes we need incinerator squad for Apprentice Gia.
Cosmos: detonating cosmos actually become a larger gravity bomb (eh not likely, just suggest for fun)
Sphere Eraser: 70 pp for a usage of 8 seconds, dps power equivalent to 50% of AIS photon blaster in XH (well, when calculating all the procs of ranger skills of course), cancellable.
[/SPOILER-BOX]

Naska

Feb 15, 2016, 02:49 AM

The bad thing about 360Eraser is not just its damage, but about its hit rate. You would think a lazer would hit continuously instead of 0.5s interval right?

sparab

Feb 15, 2016, 03:02 AM

The bad thing about 360Eraser is not just its damage, but about its hit rate. You would think a lazer would hit continuously instead of 0.5s interval right?

Photon cannon agrees

Flamebullet: hmm maybe 40% burn proc chance. Yes we need incinerator squad for Apprentice Gia.

MagicFlamebullet: projectile effect is based on launcher's element (shoot rainbow if no element)

aiMute

Feb 15, 2016, 05:24 AM

Haha, this is amazing. Calling others biased when you're clearly biased yourself.
I can show any of these videos at any given time.
[SPOILER-BOX]http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag232/altumbra/ok_zpsu7krqcl0.jpg[/SPOILER-BOX]

I've got one condition, though. I'm just really dying to see how anti-Launcher Ra players play. Anyone from the Launcher hating crowd? How about the individual that keeps claiming that Launchers are shit? Would you care to upload a video yourself? In every debate that I've participated in I've never seen the opposition show a video of their own game-play. Please, entertain me for once.
Well, I might ask my team Ra to upload videos of them playing Gu (its what you're asking if you've been reading) but is it even up for debate? Or do you want video of Ra wb slutting in mpa where Te, Fo and guren-lovers kill everything and he focuses on bosses? Join any LQ and you'll see that video.

Looks like I triggered some launcher lovers but still I got nothing useful, nothing, so I guess launcher really are nothing useful.

Flaoc

Feb 15, 2016, 07:45 AM

Well, I might ask my team Ra to upload videos of them playing Gu (its what you're asking if you've been reading) but is it even up for debate? Or do you want video of Ra wb slutting in mpa where Te, Fo and guren-lovers kill everything and he focuses on bosses? Join any LQ and you'll see that video.

Looks like I triggered some launcher lovers but still I got nothing useful, nothing, so I guess launcher really are nothing useful.

yea man this is why my launchers clearly never kill things in eq's or lq :wacko: ok seriously bell is right here launcher is still the go to for ra mobbing besides zondeeled EA or glory rain spam (aoe wreckage)

aiMute

Feb 15, 2016, 09:18 AM

yea man this is why my launchers clearly never kill things in eq's or lq :wacko: ok seriously bell is right here launcher is still the go to for ra mobbing besides zondeeled EA or glory rain spam (aoe wreckage)
Man, my point is that Gu is go to for Ra non-support role e.g. when soloing or doing shaqs and in MPA your MPA clears most trash with zondeel and stuff and you use rifle to clear leftovers and bring that useful Ra support with wb and occasional gravity nade. Launcher can be used but it doesn't seem practical, getting 13* one and stuff.

Flaoc

Feb 15, 2016, 09:48 AM

Man, my point is that Gu is go to for Ra non-support role e.g. when soloing or doing shaqs and in MPA your MPA clears most trash with zondeel and stuff and you use rifle to clear leftovers and bring that useful Ra support with wb and occasional gravity nade. Launcher can be used but it doesn't seem practical, getting 13* one and stuff.

gu is great but that isnt the subject at hand.. anyways most good ra will load wb before the quest starts then switch to launcher that way they have 8x wb ready whenever and launchers mobbing ability is great for aoe cosmos crafted divine cluster and sometimes zero distance along with the 2 rifle pa's i for zondeeled mobs or cosmos zondeeled mobs

Bellion

Feb 15, 2016, 10:13 AM

Z-0

Feb 15, 2016, 10:17 AM

I'm so confused. This isn't about being a "support RA", this is about being a good RA that switches between Launcher and Rifle to support AND also go on the offensive. Unlike what you seem to be believe, they are not mutually exclusive roles and can (and should) be done at the same time in all cases.

The ONLY time a class is pure support are the GuTe, TeGu and TeRa setups, because that's all they can really do.

And yes, I do agree with the sentiment that you don't really "need" launcher, because in quests like the LQ people only care if you Weak Bullet or not, but if playing any content where the RA has to actually mob (believe it or not this is a lot of content), they will need a Launcher to do it properly (or a good Gunslash, but both are recommended).

sparab

Feb 15, 2016, 11:20 AM

Seems some person classifies "launcher user" as Ra that don't use rifle, even on boss.

In the case, they are probably not allowed to shot WB, which applies rifle damage. Therefore disqualify them as "support Ra"

MightyHarken

Feb 15, 2016, 01:46 PM

Do you actually play Ra yourself or do you base your thoughts from what others say?
You have to get a recording from your team Ra, so it's not something of your own. That's quite disappointing, really.
If I really wanted something specifically it would have to be a Ra/Hu or Ra/Br going through something like an LQ PUG run using a rifle only, no one that you know well is in the MPA, and there must be a fair amount of mob spawns.

These were my points:
Rifle > Launcher for bosses, single targets, and concentrated mobs.
Launcher > Rifle for scattered mobs.
It was nothing more and nothing less. I've no idea why this discussion is continuing at this point.

Even an Orbit Launcher is worth it just for the PP regeneration when you can switch to one and throw a grenade to ensure you fill up as much as you can. You may as well +10 it to make it usable for eliminating trash when you can.

I've lost all interest seeing as I'm not even discussing with someone that plays Ra frequently and seems to rely on another. I've got nothing more to say now.

I play Ranger frequently, in fact, I've played RA for 4 years in a row now. So I can confirm this to you, it's worth investing in launchers. I already explained in another post some tips to make the most of it.

I used to be a rifle purist, but that was way back when launchers were useless. Back then Diffuse shell was the best thing to use (for me). But like I said, that was long ago.

Z-0

Feb 15, 2016, 02:12 PM

Launchers have never been useless ever in PSO2's lifespan. Launcher was at its most useless on Additional Bullet's release, but it still saw some uses, but it's only ever been made more useful since then.

aiMute

Feb 15, 2016, 04:19 PM

Do you actually play Ra yourself or do you base your thoughts from what others say?
You have to get a recording from your team Ra, so it's not something of your own. That's quite disappointing, really.
If I really wanted something specifically it would have to be a Ra/Hu or Ra/Br going through something like an LQ PUG run using a rifle only, no one that you know well is in the MPA, and there must be a fair amount of mob spawns.

These were my points:
Rifle > Launcher for bosses, single targets, and concentrated mobs.
Launcher > Rifle for scattered mobs.
It was nothing more and nothing less. I've no idea why this discussion is continuing at this point.

Even an Orbit Launcher is worth it just for the PP regeneration when you can switch to one and throw a grenade to ensure you fill up as much as you can. You may as well +10 it to make it usable for eliminating trash when you can.

I've lost all interest seeing as I'm not even discussing with someone that plays Ra frequently and seems to rely on another. I've got nothing more to say now.
Well, I have all75 but my team Ra+Gu have much more experience than I do and they aren't bad players, is it really disappointing to rely on experience of those who specialize in those classes and your own observations? Not doing so is. Also why make a video of Ra when you can see it yourself, while no one really sees a launcher user in MPA.

Those, your, points I agree on, they're kinda obvious, but they don't cover realistic launcher uses like for solo play where you want to be Gu and they don't really tell how useful launcher is in MPA like LQ MPA, that's why I want some video of "good use of launcher". People can say that launcher is good but I don't see any launcher users and this tells me more than words of some forum random.

As for PP regen, launchers restore just 2-2-3 PP, is it really that good? I'd rather place upper trap for 100% PP during boss invulnurable phases.

HentaiLolicon

Feb 15, 2016, 04:28 PM

Well, I have all75 but my team Ra+Gu have much more experience than I do and they aren't bad players, is it really disappointing to rely on experience of those who specialize in those classes and your own observations? Not doing so is. Also why make a video of Ra when you can see it yourself, while no one really sees a launcher user in MPA.

Those, your, points I agree on, they're kinda obvious, but they don't cover realistic launcher uses like for solo play where you want to be Gu and they don't really tell how useful launcher is in MPA like LQ MPA, that's why I want some video of "good use of launcher". People can say that launcher is good but I don't see any launcher users and this tells me more than words of some forum random.

As for PP regen, launchers restore just 2-2-3 PP, is it really that good? I'd rather place upper trap for 100% PP during boss invulnurable phases.
For pp regen, get yourself an orbit launcher with 1st potential unlocked. You don't see RAs using launcher in LQ 'cause mobs will just die with them doing nothing (lazeh is good dude). When you are heavily surrounded, launcher is more effective than rifle to break open.

sparab

Feb 15, 2016, 04:54 PM

but they don't cover realistic launcher uses like for solo play where you want to be Gu

"Instead of optimize launcher's mob clearing ability, you should just play another class."

Conclusion: Ra with no launcher > Ra with launcher

Evangelion X.XX

Feb 15, 2016, 05:09 PM

but they don't cover realistic launcher uses like for solo play where you want to be Gu and they don't really tell how useful launcher is in MPA like LQ MPA, that's why I want some video of "good use of launcher". People can say that launcher is good but I don't see any launcher users and this tells me more than words of some forum random.

*Looks at thread title* Why would I use a launcher if I'm playing gunner? Bottom line, it sounds like you don't know how to RA, and if you actually play that class you'd know how useful launcher is: there is a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path. And just 'cause people don't use something doesn't mean it isn't good, may be they simply don't know, and exhibit the herd mentality: i.e. the mentality of "everybody's jumpin' off the cliff so why not me too?"

Yden

Feb 15, 2016, 05:24 PM

I don't know if it's because I'm strange and use a launcher or if the majority of rangers people see are only in MPA scenarios but I use launcher as my primary weapon when soloing only switch to rifles during boss fights. My main PA of course is Zero Distance but I use Divine Launcher and Cosmo Breaker when I feel it's needed as well. But in MPA scenarios, I mainly switch over and use my rifle because it allows me to WB quickly and any damage I put out will be mostly pointless because of how fast other classes melt mobs and I feel that's what leads to the false viewpoint launchers aren't used.

Evangelion X.XX

Feb 15, 2016, 05:35 PM

^Same. When RA-ing, i use launcher for what, about maybe 80-85% of the time, with the exception of bosses and beefier mobs that i can dispatch quickly with rifle.

Z-0

Feb 15, 2016, 05:38 PM

Well, I have all75 but my team Ra+Gu have much more experience than I do and they aren't bad players, is it really disappointing to rely on experience of those who specialize in those classes and your own observations?
The issue here is that you're blindly trusting what other people say instead of making your own informed decisions about them. Admittedly, we're just on a forum telling you that Launcher is the best thing ever, but with so many people disagreeing with you, would it not occur to you to actually see what the deal is and find out for yourself instead of adamantly arguing against it?

The base of your argument is simply "this is what other people I know say" instead of actually knowing what you're talking about. Not a good position to be arguing from.

I play RA myself and I can say for sure that without Launcher, RA would have a lot of gaps it wouldn't be able to fill with Rifle, it's just not possible. While I haven't played it too much recently (since I'm usually playing more niche classes like FoGu and TeGu), I know that Launcher is definitely still a requirement because rifle PAs just cannot do what Launchers can, and obviously vice versa.

Furthermore this is what I'm getting from you:

- Launchers are useless because you can just let the MPA kill for you and people only want WB. (while this is true, not all content is 12/12 circle maps)
- Launchers are useless because TMG is better mobbing so you should play Gu if you want to mob. (WB is still important, we're discussing RA mobbing while still having access to WB)

These are pretty weak arguments because in many cases, RaBr is superior to have over GuRa because of WB Save and being able to do far more damage with rifles (important for bossing). Additionally, Launcher is actually much better at mobbing for bursts and quests like TD over Gunner. Gunner needs help to mob in a quest like TD (something like Zondeel specifically, no Reverse Tap isn't good enough unless you're camping towers) because TMG PAs have messy startup times that restrict its mobbing power if everything isn't targetting you, or too little range. RAs can just fire in front of them and instantly do however much damage they do (which, by the way, is far more than Gunner will ever do).

I currently don't have a proper launcher (only a 49 element Orbit) to show you Launcher myself, but like Bellion I'd actually like to see how these people play Ranger before even considering to do something myself.

^ was word garble but hopefully you get my point.

Unnamed Player

Feb 15, 2016, 05:57 PM

I know that Launcher is definitely still a requirementUnless you absolutely have to hit stuff from above it's a recommendation, not a requirement.

Zorua

Feb 15, 2016, 06:29 PM

You guys should just give up. It's obvious that these people are beyond help. 16 pages in and they're still adamant that launchers suck because rifles are "better" when you have a force zondeeling for you. These are the same kind of people that think they're good because "lol I made big number" or "jajaja damage parser says I have big deeps." Here's something I'd like to see though. Ya' know that part in CQ1 where almost everyone grabs a launcher and spawn kills everything? Please make a video of your MPA using rifles instead.

MightyHarken

Feb 15, 2016, 06:58 PM

sparab

Feb 15, 2016, 07:03 PM

because rifles are "better" when you have a force zondeeling for you

With dedicated zondeel, BHS kills everything in 3 seconds. Therefore knuckle is the best mob weapon and everything else should be trashed.

aiMute

Feb 15, 2016, 07:03 PM

The issue here is that you're blindly trusting what other people say instead of making your own informed decisions about them. Admittedly, we're just on a forum telling you that Launcher is the best thing ever, but with so many people disagreeing with you, would it not occur to you to actually see what the deal is and find out for yourself instead of adamantly arguing against it?

The base of your argument is simply "this is what other people I know say" instead of actually knowing what you're talking about. Not a good position to be arguing from.

I play RA myself and I can say for sure that without Launcher, RA would have a lot of gaps it wouldn't be able to fill with Rifle, it's just not possible. While I haven't played it too much recently (since I'm usually playing more niche classes like FoGu and TeGu), I know that Launcher is definitely still a requirement because rifle PAs just cannot do what Launchers can, and obviously vice versa.

Furthermore this is what I'm getting from you:

- Launchers are useless because you can just let the MPA kill for you and people only want WB. (while this is true, not all content is 12/12 circle maps)
- Launchers are useless because TMG is better mobbing so you should play Gu if you want to mob. (WB is still important, we're discussing RA mobbing while still having access to WB)

These are pretty weak arguments because in many cases, RaBr is superior to have over GuRa because of WB Save and being able to do far more damage with rifles (important for bossing). Additionally, Launcher is actually much better at mobbing for bursts and quests like TD over Gunner. Gunner needs help to mob in a quest like TD (something like Zondeel specifically, no Reverse Tap isn't good enough unless you're camping towers) because TMG PAs have messy startup times that restrict its mobbing power if everything isn't targetting you, or too little range. RAs can just fire in front of them and instantly do however much damage they do (which, by the way, is far more than Gunner will ever do).

I currently don't have a proper launcher (only a 49 element Orbit) to show you Launcher myself, but like Bellion I'd actually like to see how these people play Ranger before even considering to do something myself.

^ was word garble but hopefully you get my point.
I would appreciate if you would stop blindly accusing, you know. If every Br is using Guren only it doesn't mean that it's the best PA for everything including bosses (its not, its just so damn good), same with "so many people telling me", it's also the same with so many people not using launchers so I ask you and others to show "how2launcher" because right now I'm sure that it's shit and as, probably, a vast majority of pso2 players. I'd like to see you prove your points because statistics and observation prove that launchers are shit.

Burst launcher use sounds nice though as you don't move from the blob, TD, I dunno, waiting near tower and killing is enough for most enemies (but golds) and its not like Ra can intercept all the golds too, and Ra is better for boss hunting anyway with its WB rather than guarding the tower...
Launcher still looks pretty impractical weapon to invest meseta into.

You guys should just give up. It's obvious that these people are beyond help. 16 pages in and they're still adamant that launchers suck because rifles are "better" when you have a force zondeeling for you. These are the same kind of people that think they're good because "lol I made big number" or "jajaja damage parser says I have big deeps." Here's something I'd like to see though. Ya' know that part in CQ1 where almost everyone grabs a launcher and spawn kills everything? Please make a video of your MPA using rifles instead.
You even know what practical use means? Also I prefer wand + foie in CQ1 to launchers, and launchers are good there but probably only because no better weapon/PAs, lol.

sparab

Feb 15, 2016, 07:14 PM

and Ra is better for boss hunting anyway with its WB rather than guarding the tower...

If you played average PUG, chances are you don't even need to fight a boss as Ra because it will be swarmed by 6+ people. I had plenty of experience where I have to solo defend towers with divine zero and cosmo. Charge EA at a bunch of spin/drop kicking gold sounds like a great idea.

Launcher still looks pretty impractical weapon to invest meseta into

Discriminating a weapon and its user because you don't use it, legit

cheeto

Feb 15, 2016, 07:15 PM

Do you wand foie the 99 gold spawn in CQ1?

Zorua

Feb 15, 2016, 07:22 PM

You even know what practical use means? Also I prefer wand + foie in CQ1 to launchers, and launchers are good there but probably only because no better weapon/PAs, lol.

Yes, I do, but I don't think you do. Also, wand stops being good after your first stop through lilipa, so idk what you're doing.

aiMute

Feb 15, 2016, 07:31 PM

Do you wand foie the 99 gold spawn in CQ1?

Yes, I do, but I don't think you do. Also, wand stops being good after your first stop through lilipa, so idk what you're doing.
That's so on-topic.

If you played average PUG, chances are you don't even need to fight a boss as Ra because it will be swarmed by 6+ people. I had plenty of experience where I have to solo defend towers with divine zero and cosmo. Charge EA at a bunch of spin/drop kicking gold sounds like a great idea.

Discriminating a weapon and its user because you don't use it, legit
Don't use it like a vast majority of pso2 rangers, uh-huh. Also try to discriminate meseta and stones.
PUGs suck too often so, okay, it has it's use during PUG sucking TDs.

sparab

Feb 15, 2016, 07:41 PM

Don't use it like a vast majority of pso2 rangers

Don't use it like a vast majority of pso2 rangers

Don't use it like a vast majority of pso2 rangers

Congratulations! Now we are back to square one after 17 pages.

Did anyone mentioned your "majority Ra" are casuals who EA magatsu knee and WB decol's bottom disk in the previous 169 posts?

aiMute

Feb 15, 2016, 07:44 PM

Congratulations! Now we are back to square one after 17 pages.

Did anyone mentioned your "majority Ra" are casuals who EA magatsu knee and WB decol's bottom disk in the previous 169 posts?
Vast majority means 95% of Ra I've seen, so do you mean all of Ra's are noobs? Very highly of you. Btw you're so leet you can't show me how to use a launcher effectively in practical situations and yet say stuff like that.
Also, that triple quoting, you mad or what?

RealKillaK

Feb 15, 2016, 07:45 PM

sparab

Feb 15, 2016, 07:52 PM

Also, that triple quoting, you mad or what?

It just amuse me that, someone started a thread asking why most rangers dont use launchers
And someone replies, because most rangers don't use it

And of course the 5% leet Ra, include me, know when to switch rifle and launcher to make better play instead of relying on others to do your launcher's work

aiMute

Feb 15, 2016, 08:16 PM

I love how this became a 1(someone who doesn't play the class and giving his opinion which holds less value than a male outfit in pso2) vs people who play the class and know of the weapon benefits. Just let him think whatever he wants and move on. Launchers are worth the investment it's really that simple. And why people want to watch his garbage play is beyond me .
You know I could just say that I used launchers and I'm teh pro Ra and by how forums work my word would weight more, but you just have to go at someone like people cant use their eyes and brain to make observations and judge like that, being passive aggressive in-between. But okay, I'll tell you're all guys right and stuff and launcher is really useful like in 3 situations (PUG TD, occasional shot in LQs and bursts) and its totally, absolutely worth the meseta and stone investment just so you can be a little more useful there. I hope you're happy with that garbage.

And of course the 5% leet Ra, include me, know when to switch rifle and launcher to make better play instead of relying on others to do your launcher's work
You are full of, you know, yourself.

Tunga

Feb 15, 2016, 09:02 PM

Do you wand foie the 99 gold spawn in CQ1?

Yes, I do, but I don't think you do. Also, wand stops being good after your first stop through lilipa, so idk what you're doing.

Well wands are as useful as launchers in CM1 (low man to 12 man) from my experience. Not really fair to use CM here.

Zorua

Feb 15, 2016, 09:23 PM

Not really fair to use CM here.

I don't see why. This discussion stopped being about why rangers don't use launchers, and turned into "launchers are/aren't shit and here's why." Running in circles in the LQ isn't the only content in this game.

vbetts

Feb 15, 2016, 09:32 PM

I have a lower lvl ranger in the 20s, I use a launcher as my spread with a grenade PA. It is easier to find a higher spec'd launcher at a lower level you can use than it is with a rifle. For single shot enemies, I do tend to use a rifle with shotgun PA. The biggest issue I have with launchers, their speed is awfully slow. My rifle does everything a launcher does at half the speed.

Looking at the history of launchers in PSO, they nerfed launchers in pso2. That and spread type weapons for rangers for example.

aiMute

Feb 16, 2016, 12:24 PM

I don't see why. This discussion stopped being about why rangers don't use launchers, and turned into "launchers are/aren't shit and here's why."
It's logical, obviously something will not be used if it's bad and/or boring.

milranduil

Feb 16, 2016, 01:24 PM

It's logical, obviously something will not be used if it's bad and/or boring.

except launcher is a staple for m6 and onward because of how good/important cluster is.

aiMute

Feb 16, 2016, 02:08 PM

except launcher is a staple for m6 and onward because of how good/important cluster is.
CQs. Challenge Quests. The place with static spawns and limited skills/PAs/weapons. The place where you don't waste meseta and stones on something you'll barely use. I agree.

Ryziou

Feb 16, 2016, 02:47 PM

It's logical, obviously something will not be used if it's bad and/or boring.

But it's not bad. If it's boring then okay but Lawnchairs are far from bad.

Xaelouse

Feb 16, 2016, 02:49 PM

Guess people forgot about Partizan in cmode 1
I know you guys are trying your hardest to defend launchers, but lets be real here. Despite that though, they're far from being a bad weapon. There isn't any real bad weapon in this game unless you use it wrong.
Like, I can call wired lances shit (even though they are truthfully underpowered right now mostly due to the hard mechanics of most PAs) but I'll be shown a few select situations making it worthwhile.

Ryziou

Feb 16, 2016, 02:54 PM

vantpers

Feb 16, 2016, 02:55 PM

Korima

Feb 16, 2016, 03:09 PM

Guys one thing I don't understand and I never asked before because I thought it was normal damage but then it wasn't.

If I have a 2800 R-ATK in a battle why my máx damage is 25 or 30k? and I'm talking about a Charged Divine Launcher right into the face of Profound Darkness or from far away, and I have all my skills related to that to the max.

Yden

Feb 16, 2016, 03:29 PM

Vast majority means 95% of Ra I've seen, so do you mean all of Ra's are noobs? Very highly of you. Btw you're so leet you can't show me how to use a launcher effectively in practical situations and yet say stuff like that.
Also, that triple quoting, you mad or what?

Seen is the keyword here. Launchers aren't used very often in a MPA scenario because what damage the ranger does regardless of weapon will be virtually zero because of how fast other classes will clear the enemies. That's why a lot of rangers will stick with rifle so they can WB a boss the second it comes up.

Outside of MPAs, in a small party and solo conditions is when launchers really shine. Because of such, the public view of rangers is that they never use launchers while I'm sure many rangers like myself find them invaluable when soloing or in small groups with friends.

milranduil

Feb 16, 2016, 04:35 PM

CQs. Challenge Quests. The place with static spawns and limited skills/PAs/weapons. The place where you don't waste meseta and stones on something you'll barely use. I agree.

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Guess people forgot about Partizan in cmode 1
I know you guys are trying your hardest to defend launchers, but lets be real here. Despite that though, they're far from being a bad weapon. There isn't any real bad weapon in this game unless you use it wrong.
Like, I can call wired lances shit (even though they are truthfully underpowered right now mostly due to the hard mechanics of most PAs) but I'll be shown a few select situations making it worthwhile.

Launcher and partisan have subtly different purposes in cm1 imo. Launcher is for clearing mobs at spawn point when it isn't necessary to get into melee range to actually kill them (m6/m7 perfect example). Partisan is better for tankier mobs without easily accessible headshots (golds before x99 with the traps, Southeast m7, first spawn of m9 due to charging/movement). In the end, I always grab both because both are useful for different spawns/situations.

Tunga

Feb 16, 2016, 07:16 PM

waste meseta and stones on something you'll barely use

This should be the biggest reason why a lot of people that don't main RA(including me) don't bother with them. Like if i have 180 ares stones and 14M meseta to spend i would rather go and get another talis or a rod. Then again there is always the red lawnchair if you need one.

sparab

Feb 16, 2016, 07:36 PM

Ryziou

Feb 16, 2016, 07:56 PM

This should be the biggest reason why a lot of people that don't main RA(including me) don't bother with them. Like if i have 180 ares stones and 14M meseta to spend i would rather go and get another talis or a rod. Then again there is always the red lawnchair if you need one.

That's because as Sparab said, Orbit Lawnchair is the best right now so I wouldn't even spend Ares stones (which I did) on one.

Guys one thing I don't understand and I never asked before because I thought it was normal damage but then it wasn't.

If I have a 2800 R-ATK in a battle why my máx damage is 25 or 30k? and I'm talking about a Charged Divine Launcher right into the face of Profound Darkness or from far away, and I have all my skills related to that to the max.

Probably because using a Lawnchair on PD is pointless.

Korima

Feb 16, 2016, 07:58 PM

I have Orbit but I'm using the Tokyo Launcher because the design is cooler, after all it seems that being beautiful is what is the game now.

Selphea

Feb 16, 2016, 08:00 PM

if i have 14M meseta to spend i would rather go and get new underwear

Fixed ;-)

Tunga

Feb 16, 2016, 08:01 PM

That's because as Sparab said, Orbit Lawnchair is the best right now so I wouldn't even spend Ares stones (which I did) on one.

That was just an example. The're plenty other stones and orbit weapons to choose from.

sparab

Feb 16, 2016, 08:07 PM

Fixed ;-)

Lace1 was 10m last time I boughtchecked, still cheaper than a 13*!

Tunga

Feb 16, 2016, 08:10 PM

Fixed ;-)

Anything to make your waifu look gud.
underwear>launchers

Korima

Feb 16, 2016, 08:17 PM

Probably because using a Lawnchair on PD is pointless.

Nah, using the flamethrower and jump at the same time is very fun.

Yden

Feb 16, 2016, 08:18 PM

I have Orbit but I'm using the Tokyo Launcher because the design is cooler, after all it seems that being beautiful is what is the game now.

I use an Addis Bunker because I just can't say no to a pile bunker.

Ryziou

Feb 16, 2016, 08:22 PM

That was just an example. The're plenty other stones and orbit weapons to choose from.

And there are better alternatives than picking one of the Orbits weapons.

Tunga

Feb 16, 2016, 09:02 PM

And there are better alternatives than picking one of the Orbits weapons.

There's only talis. Every other orbit is on-par/better than austere and more attractive options than launcher to non-main RA players. Red is the easiest launcher to get if you don't wan't to get into 13* territory and is enough to steamroll XH mobs. Red launcher RA > OP spamming, No launcher RA.

NoobSpectre

Feb 16, 2016, 10:47 PM

Well... that new Tokyo Lawnchair though.

Would like to see people recording a vid going sparta by rodeo/flamethrower/point blank/crazy smash using that which has a pot 3.

Well, for fun anyway obviously, and not recommended in serious grind EQs and serious contents.

KazukiQZ

Feb 17, 2016, 12:15 AM

I have Austere rifle and Orbit launcher. Both compliment each other very well owo)b

A good RA must know how to use both weapon effectively, and even gunslash too (although I rarely used one myself due to no 13* GS yet, but recently started using the add bullet gunslash again for TA lol).

Zorak000

Feb 17, 2016, 12:24 AM

I was having fun in the lq as Ra/Be spamming basics and devine launcher

Swell chill times

JCry

Feb 17, 2016, 12:47 AM

I was having fun in the lq as Ra/Be spamming basics and devine launcher

Swell chill times

Whats the mobbing efficiency with RaBr? I know it's build is a strict set-up for bossing but with headshots included could RaBr launcher mobbing be considered acceptable for all around? I Know some people prefer RaHu in some cases like Magatsu because of survivability- Fury Stance damage and massive hunter as well.

femme fatale

Feb 17, 2016, 12:58 AM

RaBr you get more dmg with charged PAs like divine, you have to headshot/weakpoint regardless so its not that bad and i guess guren if you TA

JCry

Feb 17, 2016, 01:04 AM

RaBr you get more dmg with charged PAs like divine, you have to headshot/weakpoint regardless so its not that bad and i guess guren if you TA

Whoa wait, you gain Br's Average S. Charge bonus with Ra PAs like End Attract and crafted Divine? That's super special awesome. I Agree it would be good for TAs and set-up play, can't say much for PUGs though. It's always a different story with randoms.

sparab

Feb 17, 2016, 01:20 AM

RaHu does the most damage in any situation. MassiveHu/automate grants easy usage of satecannon and EA.

RaBr only beats RaHu for ~5% when hitting weakpoint with charged PA. Guren is handy for hardcore TA groups. Play BrRa if you just want to WB+bow.

RaGu...just play GuRa instead

Selphea

Feb 17, 2016, 05:47 PM

Not enough love for RaFi with TAJAPPS End Attract and Stun Grenade Chase setups ;_;

Korima

Feb 17, 2016, 06:59 PM

RaGu...just play GuRa instead

No.

No.

sparab

Feb 17, 2016, 07:01 PM

Not enough love for RaFi with TAJAPPS End Attract and Stun Grenade Chase setups ;_;

I've seen more HuRa than RaFi

vbetts

Feb 17, 2016, 07:50 PM

No.

No.

Agreed. Love my RaGu setup.

Selphea

Feb 17, 2016, 07:54 PM

I've seen more HuRa than RaFi

HuRa is just a RaHu levelling their subclass!

JCry

Feb 17, 2016, 09:05 PM

HuRa is just a RaHu levelling their subclass!

Not unless you're Infinity Hunter.

Valimer

Feb 18, 2016, 12:09 AM

Not unless you're Infinity Hunter.

What do you mean by Infinity Hunter?

JCry

Feb 18, 2016, 12:33 AM

What do you mean by Infinity Hunter?

There's a ship2 player named Infinity Hunter who mained HuBr for a long time I guess. Anyway I seen him in Magatsu with 75/75 HuRa one time which was odd to me.

Naoya Kiriyama

Feb 18, 2016, 06:42 AM

There's a ship2 player named Infinity Hunter who mained HuBr for a long time I guess. Anyway I seen him in Magatsu with 75/75 HuRa one time which was odd to me.

Well, otherwise he wouldn't call himself Infinity "Hunter"

vbetts

Feb 18, 2016, 07:56 AM

Well, otherwise he wouldn't call himself Infinity "Hunter"

Or it's his last name.

Coincidence.

Macman

Feb 21, 2016, 04:27 AM

Launchers aren't bad. I just don't like them for the same reason I don't like Wirelances: They root you down too much.

SiZ

Feb 22, 2016, 07:33 PM

NoobSpectre

Feb 22, 2016, 09:00 PM

why not? :/

youtube.com/watch?v=qdDFbRElAC0

well what I mean is actually ride into the danger with that pot3 that recovers hp and stuff.

Whatever, thx anyway.

Korima

Feb 23, 2016, 12:04 PM

I want to know how you do big damage with Launchers guys because I don't understand what's wrong with my setup, I was doing the limited quest and I can't do more damage than 30k using weak bullet and charged divine launcher having 3204 R-ATK at the moment.

bhaal

Feb 23, 2016, 03:46 PM

Korima

Feb 23, 2016, 04:35 PM

what are you using? (details of weapon and armor)

The Tokyo Launcher + 10, I have the orbit launcher but I'm waiting for tomorrow to have the Grind-Skip.

Armor I'm waiting for the Saiki, but no triggers in the casino shop.

bhaal

Feb 23, 2016, 04:50 PM

The Tokyo Launcher + 10, I have the orbit launcher but I'm waiting for tomorrow to have the Grind-Skip.

Armor I'm waiting for the Saiki, but no triggers in the casino shop.

How high is your element in the launcher? are you playing in manual aim mode?
whats you current armor set? whats your sub?

DRAGONxNOGARD

Feb 24, 2016, 05:11 AM

red launcher divine launcher and you will be ok

anyway...ra/br multi class bullet bow will be op as secondary weapon? (primary rifle)

Korima

Feb 26, 2016, 08:33 PM

How high is your element in the launcher? are you playing in manual aim mode?
whats you current armor set? whats your sub?

The Element is Wind, I play on Aim Mode and I have the Ideal Units.

With Zero Distance PA I can do 50k at least but Divine Launcher is 36k at max and I know 3200 R-TAK could be a little low but I don't understand what is wrong, in fact it is like since I upgraded the DL to the charged version is weaker, and yeah I know it doesn't make sense.