So...about the Klotho rebalance

[EvilMag]

http://pso2.jp/players/support/measures/?id=8185

I'm not sure how I feel about this...

[Mio]

So they are reducing the meseta values from Khloto mission by around 70% of the total you could get in a week worth of TACOs and EXs COs, but they said they're compensating it with new quests related to the new Gathering system.

They also worry that clearing all the Khloto COs takes a lot of time (meaning if you clear N H and VH for every TACO).

[seilent]

the normal and hard TAs now become normal or above & hard or above..?
or just removed and changed with sth else..?

[nguuuquaaa]

Why doesn't TACO reset at a fixed time instead of after a set interval? I mean, with EQ system and all.
Other than that, I'll just go with the flow anyway.

[Aine]

I never do TACOs, but I do take the XQ orders whenever I could be bothered to do a full XQ run so it's purely a downgrade for me (going to do a full run anyway so reducing the orders won't make it any faster).

That aside, it's pretty hilarious how their justification is to reduce the amount of time people need to spend on Klotho routine work so they can play other things in the game... that being more routine work that they're piling on in the form of recommended quests and gathering.

[Mio]

I never do TACOs, but I do take the XQ orders whenever I could be bothered to do a full XQ run so it's purely a downgrade for me (going to do a full run anyway so reducing the orders won't make it any faster).

That aside, it's pretty hilarious how their justification is to reduce the amount of time people need to spend on Klotho routine work so they can play other things in the game... that being more routine work that they're piling on in the form of recommended quests and gathering.

But that's actually true, I remember when TACOs were daily, I kinda of felt "forced" to play them everyday.

When they become weekly it was a good addition for me.

[Z-0]

Yes you will get 3 COs cleared together with just one VH mission.

But they're reducing the final earned meseta by 70%.

I think I welcome this "feature" as I just completely ignored N and H tacos until now.

What upsed me is the rebalance of the XQ COs, as I enjoyed doing 5 XQs for 800k everyweek.
That's not true. They're removing all the TACOs and replacing them with N+ only, which give 60K meseta each. (so the 80K H and 180K VH are gone)

However there will be 3 VH COs which give meseta depending on how many VH missions you clear (any quest), the first one gives 200K meseta. What's most likely going to happen is people will do 5 VH Harkotan and call it a day.

They're also reducing the XQCOs to 2 COs only and making those give a bit more meseta (although probably still less overall).

[JCry]

Why can't they just give Klotho a break.

[Sp-24]

He straight up offered to pay you for doing TAs and XQs. A man has to keep his word.

[seilent]

aw was hoping if they just make the TA N+ and H+ that would be really nice.
if any TA quest prolly people will go harukotan TA, and if any VH quest that would be zawoodan hunters then xD

[Sp-24]

It will be featured osusumes, since gotta get those keys.

[gabor100]

With the Layered Wear they should incease the income from CO's and not decrease.

Killing Train Ghidoran VH gives only ~60k while old bosses are around 100-250k and now this.

Obviously SEGA is trying to milk ppl more with AC scratches.

Edit: Prices could go up or stay the same with lower CO income. Dudu/crafting would cost the same and it would be "harder"(more time) to get the meseta for it.

I don't think ppl will sell costumes/parts under ~300k if they lower Klotho incomes.

[Z-0]

Increasing income from COs is why prices go up (along with other factors).

If TACO meseta and DO meseta wasn't a thing, chances are prices would be lower but 1 million would seem like a lot of meseta instead.

It honestly doesn't matter what they do with COs, the market is going to reflect the meseta generated and nothing will ever get easier/harder. They need to do things like make Monica/Dudu/Crafting more expensive if you want to see things get cheaper on the visiphone. Things are so expensive because people have the meseta to buy them.

[wefwq]

- TA set, averaging from 30 minutes to 1 hour
- XQ set, averaging from 20 minutes to 40 minutes
- Daily set, averaging from 10 minutes to 1 hour
- Featured set, averaging from 10 minutes to 1 hours
Oh man, we already have bunch of stuff to "play", why they have to force us mining some tomatoes :wacko: instead of making it optional activities to do on down time.
It's not like we won't do it since it most likely will be tied to upcoming ring system.

They should just make every existing chores to be more shorter and is actually faster to finish, and change klotho CO to fixed time will actually help a lot.


With the Layered Wear they should incease the income from CO's and not decrease.

Killing Train Ghidoran VH gives only ~60k while old bosses are around 100-250k and now this.

Obviously SEGA is trying to milk ppl more with AC scratches.

Edit: Prices could go up or stay the same with lower CO income. Dudu/crafting would cost the same and it would be "harder"(more time) to get the meseta for it.

I don't think ppl will sell costumes/parts under ~300k if they lower Klotho incomes.
It won't lower the price.
If you read, new CO will be used to compensate lost meseta from Klotho, so in the end it'll be similar or the same, the amount of meseta just more distributed and is more headache to deal.

[jooozek]

better get ready to work in salt mines or you ain't earning shit :wacko:

[Mio]

That's not true. They're removing all the TACOs and replacing them with N+ only, which give 60K meseta each. (so the 80K H and 180K VH are gone)

However there will be 3 VH COs which give meseta depending on how many VH missions you clear (any quest), the first one gives 200K meseta. What's most likely going to happen is people will do 5 VH Harkotan and call it a day.

They're also reducing the XQCOs to 2 COs only and making those give a bit more meseta (although probably still less overall).


Thanks for correcting me! I deleted my original post.

[Stormwalker]

Obviously they heard that a bunch of us don't want to waste time gathering in our PSO2 so now they're going to move the money around so that it's "required" if you don't want to be poor.

Yet another example of why I really hate the direction things are going...

[Lostbob117]

So wait, I don't have to do Lilipa or Amd anymore?! Godbless.

[Stormwalker]

So wait, I don't have to do Lilipa or Amd anymore?! Godbless.

Sure, but now you have to go mine for fish instead.

[elryan]

YES FOR NOT HAVING TO DO NAB, LILIPA, AMDUSCIA, VOPAR AGAIN

GODBLESS SEGA

[Lostbob117]

Sure, but now you have to go mine for fish instead.

That's 10x better than Amd or Lilipa TA.

[Stormwalker]

That's 10x better than Amd or Lilipa TA.

As someone who has spent way too much time gathering in MMO's? I'd rather shoot monsters for my money.

[TaigaUC]

Hard to say right now. From the last stream, it seems gathering won't just be going from point A to B because of the combo and burst systems.

With the friend I do TAs with, it takes us around 6-9 minutes for each TA, and we only do TA after gathering all or nearly every TA daily.
Problem is, TA dailies have been extremely rare since episode 4. Probably intentionally so.
But still, only doing TAs once every few weeks isn't bad.
I'm concerned about whether gathering is going to be faster/slower, more/less boring, and result in more or less cash.

[Hrith]

If it's roughly the same meseta per minute, why not, but I'm still really worried about lowering the average income. I hope it's not too severe.

[Korima]

The important question is

Mining and Fishing will be fun?

[Tunga]

Man what is pso2 turning into. Waifu sim, Fishing sim, Mining sim, Cooking chinpoko potter mama class and what else?

[SilkaN]

Man what is pso2 turning into. Waifu sim, Fishing sim, Mining sim, Cooking chinpoko potter mama class and what else?

It has always been a waifu sim.

[Lostbob117]

Man what is pso2 turning into. Waifu sim, Fishing sim, Mining sim, Cooking chinpoko potter mama class and what else?

A game where the developers clearly want you to explore alot other aspects of the game.

The past changes have been constantly to encourage people to do more in the game than just 1 thing. Featured quests is probably the most successful change for this.

[Z-0]

"Encourage people to do more" just means daily chores that you spend 5 minutes doing, not content you actually "play". They're not doing it right.

They need a redistribution of drops across all maps and make EQs less centralising if they want people to actually play the game outside of visiting places for 5 minutes.

Also Lilipa is the best TA. Haters.

[Lostbob117]

"Encourage people to do more" just means daily chores that you spend 5 minutes doing, not content you actually "play". They're not doing it right.

They need a redistribution of drops across all maps and make EQs less centralising if they want people to actually play the game outside of visiting places for 5 minutes.

Also Lilipa is the best TA. Haters.

I dont agree with that at all. If they made all areas be able to drop stuff. It'd spread the missions being done thin. I think they should make featured quests have a higher level difficulty if it doesn't have XH already, and make them spawn things like Anga or something like that. Just a rough idea, but I think that's a better direction for them to take.

[Stormwalker]

The important question is

Mining and Fishing will be fun?

I have never once played a game where mining was fun. Fishing was kinda fun in Final Fantasy XI before the anti-botting measures made it tedious.

[wefwq]

Man what is pso2 turning into. Waifu sim, Fishing sim, Mining sim, Cooking chinpoko potter mama class and what else?
Space stone trader.

[jooozek]

featured quests are so good that i always make my own mpa just to get them done and not be starved for s-rank because someone killed some mobs on my route :wacko:

[landman]

So I only care to do TA/XQ because I don't care about their new class, and I was not going to care about their new gathering system, and now, the only thing I care to do other than log in and check dailies, will be less rewarding because they want me to use their new mechanics I don't care about if I want to maintain my income??

Ok sega, I will either start spending my moneys on AC (you wish!!), or stop caring about cosmetics once and for all.



Problem is, TA dailies have been extremely rare since episode 4. Probably intentionally so.
So true, I wouldn't be surprised if they finally remove them.

[Qualia]

I have never once played a game where mining was fun.

Fam that runescape tho

[TaigaUC]

I dont agree with that at all. If they made all areas be able to drop stuff. It'd spread the missions being done thin. I think they should make featured quests have a higher level difficulty if it doesn't have XH already, and make them spawn things like Anga or something like that. Just a rough idea, but I think that's a better direction for them to take.

Ever played World of Warcraft?
This varied throughout its lifespan, but at some points you could be doing a ton of different things that all contributed towards a few goals, or just for fun.
Sick of doing a specific dungeon? Go do another one, no problem. Sick of farming stuff? Go do some PvP for fun. Blahblah.

In PSO2, SEGA tries to herd the entire playerbase towards the same very few specific things, and often refreshing incentives for old shit that everyone's sick of.
That is not fun or good game design. Granted, WoW also had systems requiring people do stuff over and over to earn whatever. But at least they had more options of doing so.
PSO2 is very specific. Do a specific quest for specific stones, in a specific area, etc.

But if PSO2 didn't herd people around, the playerbase would be split and multis probably wouldn't fill up.
On top of that, the block system is a pain to deal with.
At least in PSO2 you can still solo nearly everything.

[Korima]

Ever played World of Warcraft?
This varied throughout its lifespan, but at some points you could be doing a ton of different things that all contributed towards a few goals, or just for fun.
Sick of doing a specific dungeon? Go do another one, no problem. Sick of farming stuff? Go do some PvP for fun. Blahblah.

In PSO2, SEGA tries to herd the entire playerbase towards the same very few specific things, and often refreshing incentives for old shit that everyone's sick of.
That is not fun or good game design. Granted, WoW also had systems requiring people do stuff over and over to earn whatever. But at least they had more options of doing so.
The problem is if they don't herd people around, the playerbase will be split and multis probably won't fill up.
On top of that, the block system is a pain to deal with.
At least in PSO2 you can still solo nearly everything.

I agree, The PSO2 block system and quest search is the most painful system I saw in a videogame.

If you arrive late a few minutes to an Emergency Quest is most difficult to search and join a MPA than beating the quest itself, why the search system shows me Full Blocks that I can't join or A LOT of Parties with only one player on it that is the same MPA? Sometimes I used quick join to join a 6 MPA and waiting minutes to fill it, guess what, another 6 MPA in other block is waiting for the same.

Not to mention that if want to do and Advanced Quest I have to look on each quest and search on every block.

For a game that is about Team Work, when I see "View Quests on parties" and mostly all of them is one player playing with the "bots" I say "What the hell is this?" and it is because the search system is horrible and you do faster the mission by yourself than waiting for a party.

[TheszNuts]

Actually if you think about it, the new system will more than like have you run every TA mission on VH. There's currently 7 TA missions and 7 announced COs.

[DRAGONxNOGARD]

That's not true. They're removing all the TACOs and replacing them with N+ only, which give 60K meseta each. (so the 80K H and 180K VH are gone)

However there will be 3 VH COs which give meseta depending on how many VH missions you clear (any quest), the first one gives 200K meseta. What's most likely going to happen is people will do 5 VH Harkotan and call it a day.

They're also reducing the XQCOs to 2 COs only and making those give a bit more meseta (although probably still less overall).

gz SEGA you RIPing PSO2 how i should farm meseta now grind cost me 200k loby actions 2m costumes 1-5m T_T

[TheszNuts]

how i should farm meseta now

By working in their tomato fields.

[DRAGONxNOGARD]

By working in their tomato fields.

wtf...?

[steverowland]

I am actually quite fine with anything that helps keep meseta inflation in check, sure this sucks for the few players that don't interact with player-player economy and spend most their meseta on dudu costs while only earning meseta from COs and such as those prices will not change, but having a lower meseta income will mean lower prices for all player shopping in the long run (or more precisely not a drastic increase in prices).
Pso2 is actually one of the only mmos I can take break from for 2 years and my meseta still having lot of value after I return, if I did that in any other mmo I played before, the money would have 1/10 of its value and that's even being optimistic.

So I would say just trust the devs in this, they probably see this as a problem and they do for sure have data to back up the decision.

[Sp-24]

wtf...?
ARKS hit hard times after defeating the Profound Darkness.

[Stormwalker]

I am actually quite fine with anything that helps keep meseta inflation in check, sure this sucks for the few players that don't interact with player-player economy and spend most their meseta on dudu costs while only earning meseta from COs and such as those prices will not change, but having a lower meseta income will mean lower prices for all player shopping in the long run (or more precisely not a drastic increase in prices).
Pso2 is actually one of the only mmos I can take break from for 2 years and my meseta still having lot of value after I return, if I did that in any other mmo I played before, the money would have 1/10 of its value and that's even being optimistic.

So I would say just trust the devs in this, they probably see this as a problem and they do for sure have data to back up the decision.

If they hadn't said outright that they were going to divert that money into gathering CO's (which is hands down the LAST thing I ever want to do) I might have more inclination to trust them.

Or perhaps not, because very few of their recent decisions regarding the direction of the game inspire me to trust them.

[DRAGONxNOGARD]

ARKS hit hard times after defeating the Profound Darkness.

what do you mean?

[Asuka~]

what do you mean?

It's just a prank bro

[LordKaiser]

Damn! I hope they all don't become dailies because a TA you can do it at any time but a daily if you don't do it the same day.. They accumulate...

[seilent]

just realized... my saved daily x TA combo orz

[Keilyn]

I got a better one for you...

...For a culture that prides itself on being "Group-Oriented" and running everything together, one thing that Japanese Games have taught me from all the Phantasy Stars to FF XIV and all current games out there is:

"If one can solo it, who the hell needs a group?"

and the majority of players in most of these games if they can solo it, they do it....regardless the cultural or philosophical representations of their cultures. Notice how hard Japanese players actually work to gear up so they can play alone. Its almost like they want to escape the entire group-culture and learn a little bit of individuality...

I guess if they wipe the floor with generating meseta, then SEGA will make more money through scratch and the strongest players are the ones who actually are strong enough in real life to have a good job and a life..

Of course, it might be too soon to say that PSO2 is heading in the direction P2W PvE gaming....

[Totori]

There's nothing in the cash shop to even concur it's P2W literally everything you can buy, you can obtain.

[Sp-24]

Boost affixes, skill trees for Force and Techer. We have settled this long ago.

[DRAGONxNOGARD]

I got a better one for you...

...For a culture that prides itself on being "Group-Oriented" and running everything together, one thing that Japanese Games have taught me from all the Phantasy Stars to FF XIV and all current games out there is:

"If one can solo it, who the hell needs a group?"

and the majority of players in most of these games if they can solo it, they do it....regardless the cultural or philosophical representations of their cultures. Notice how hard Japanese players actually work to gear up so they can play alone. Its almost like they want to escape the entire group-culture and learn a little bit of individuality...

I guess if they wipe the floor with generating meseta, then SEGA will make more money through scratch and the strongest players are the ones who actually are strong enough in real life to have a good job and a life..

Of course, it might be too soon to say that PSO2 is heading in the direction P2W PvE gaming....

so you mean pso will transfer from f2p to p2w?

[Skyly]

I wonder what's the average amount of chars everyone has? Klotho nerf doesn't really upset me cause I rarely do TAs and I only have 2 characters (still haven't made ep4 char yet).

[Stormwalker]

I wonder what's the average amount of chars everyone has? Klotho nerf doesn't really upset me cause I rarely do TAs and I only have 2 characters (still haven't made ep4 char yet).

I have something like 7 but only two have any classes over level 60

[Alenoir]

I wonder what's the average amount of chars everyone has? Klotho nerf doesn't really upset me cause I rarely do TAs and I only have 2 characters (still haven't made ep4 char yet).

I have 4. 3 runs TA weekly, 1 does it once in a while, none of them run normal or hard ones.

[wahahaha]

Boost affixes, skill trees for Force and Techer. We have settled this long ago.

Please tell me how can i buy boost items without relying on RNG.
As for skill trees, if you wanted to play different combos with hunter for example, does that makes it pay2win?
lol

[Sacrificial]

lv 99 mining here I come. There better be skill capes!

[Sp-24]

Please tell me how can i buy boost items without relying on RNG.
As for skill trees, if you wanted to play different combos with hunter for example, does that makes it pay2win?
lol
Oh, all right, so you only have a random chance to get an item that is superior to most other ways to improve your stats and cannot be obtained elsewhere. You aren't paying to win, you are paying to maybe win. Totally different and not even comparable.

And you might have noticed that Force requires specializing in elements for a 40% (actually even bigger with EWH) boost in power that cannot be even approached otherwise to be adequate. But nah, being less effective in areas that aren't weak to fire and darkness, with the only solution being to pay real money, is not pay to win.

lol?

[Alenoir]

Please tell me how can i buy boost items without relying on RNG.

150% exp boost and 300% rare drop boost. (http://pso2.jp/players/catalog/acshop/) Feel free to call 'em P2W.

[SlN]

It's not a big deal if you read the article it says the payout should be around the same. I found running multiple TAs quite tedious. This layout is much better unless gathering is just as tedious.

[Kondibon]

Oh, all right, so you only have a random chance to get an item that is superior to most other ways to improve your stats and cannot be obtained elsewhere. You aren't paying to win, you are paying to maybe win. Totally different and not even comparable.

And you might have noticed that Force requires specializing in elements for a 40% (actually even bigger with EWH) boost in power that cannot be even approached otherwise to be adequate. But nah, being less effective in areas that aren't weak to fire and darkness, with the only solution being to pay real money, is not pay to win.

lol?I don't like the skill tree stuff either, but calling it P2W is a bit of a stretch, especially when there's other classes you can play.

And you can buy boost affixes from the player shops so...

[Qualia]

lv 99 mining here I come. There better be skill capes!

It's all about that level 120 master cape

[Keilyn]

I wonder what's the average amount of chars everyone has? Klotho nerf doesn't really upset me cause I rarely do TAs and I only have 2 characters (still haven't made ep4 char yet).

I don't mind the Klotho nerf as long as something else actually comes from it. Don't get me wrong...I like the TA maps, Nab and Sanctum being my favorite, and the maps are still good on premium to load up with all the COs to the areas to give EXP and meseta to subclasses...

I have five characters, but ever since PSU, I tried to have four characters at least, one female character of each race. I have five because I wanted to try a male character because of something I was working on. So its not like I made the characters to try to run the Klotho stuff on all five of them, but I used the existence of summoner to rapid-level my non-main characters to 55 to have the content opened up to run.

Two of my characters combined in 20 hours reached 50...before slowing down a bit on them.

[jooozek]

I don't like the skill tree stuff either, but calling it P2W is a bit of a stretch, especially when there's other classes you can play.

And you can buy boost affixes from the player shops so...

what about +5% element boosters? 30kk hello :wacko:

[Kondibon]

what about +5% element boosters? 30kk hello :wacko:I dunno if you're serious or not, but would argue that, even by Sp's standards those are just just a convenience since you can still get max element even without them.

[jooozek]

I dunno if you're serious or not, but would argue that, even by Sp's standards those are just just a convenience since you can still get max element even without them.

falz 13* don't have stones so if you get one and want to max out it's element good luck feeding it one weapon per 1% :wacko:
let's also not forget the scratch sometimes includes the whooping 10% ones that aren't sellable :wacko:

[Kondibon]

falz 13* don't have stones so if you get one and want to max out it's element good luck feeding it one weapon per 1% :wacko:
let's also not forget the scratch sometimes includes the whooping 10% ones that aren't sellable :wacko:The implication of P2W is that buying something from the cash shop grants you an advantage that trivializes or imbalances the game and can only be obtained by paying, to the point where anyone who isn't paying might as well not play.

Getting stuff faster that other people could eventually get isn't P2W, especially when it's only "required" for really specific facets of the game.

[jooozek]

The implication of P2W is that buying something from the cash shop grants you an advantage that trivializes or imbalances the game and can only be obtained by paying, to the point where anyone who isn't paying might as well not play.

Getting stuff faster that other people could eventually get isn't P2W, especially when it's only "required" for really specific facets of the game.

that's your twist on it with which i don't agree, i'll agree though that it's not directly P2W, it's worse, it's pay to gamble for chance to win :wacko: it's almost as bad as those mobile games and pso2es is already bad with being able to pay for quick search, but to each their own :wacko:

[Kondibon]

that's your twist on it with which i don't agree, i'll agree though that it's not directly P2W, it's worse, it's pay to gamble for chance to win :wacko: it's almost as bad as those mobile games and pso2es is already bad with being able to pay for quick search, but to each their own :wacko:That's not "my own twist on it" that's what the term means. Paying to win. I mean, unless you consider having top tier gear winning, then ok. :wacko:

[pkemr4]

that stamina system :^)

[jooozek]

That's not "my own twist on it" that's what the term means. Paying to win. I mean, unless you consider having top tier gear winning, then ok. :wacko:

i'm struggling to not take this bait :wacko:

[Totori]

I seriously think that's the only thing keeping this game afloat compared to others, it's balanced cash shop.

[Kondibon]

i'm struggling to not take this bait :wacko:It's not bait, I'm absolutely 100% serious. :I P2W is stuff like a team based shooter selling untradable guns that give you 10% more damage than the free version, or a fighting game where you can pay to heal yourself between rounds when free players can't. Paying to do stuff faster that anyone could do given time isn't P2W, because they aren't WINNING anything.

The only case I could make for P2W in PSO2 is the interrupt rankings which we haven't had in ages.

EDIT: Just to clarify I'm not trying to defend PSO2's monetization of stuff like mags and skilltrees, I just get tired of the term P2W being thrown around any time a game gives paying players any sort progress advantage. Yes, if you spend a bunch on the scratches you can get 10% element boosters, but in the grand scheme of things they aren't even important. The game is balanced around people having 3-4 affixed matterboard gear and 12* welfare weapons. If the game were balanced around this kind of stuff to the point where the game is almost unplayable without paying then I would agree, but the fact of the matter is it's not. All of the core gameplay related content can be completed or obtained, without spending a dime. Scapedolls are more P2W than element boosters...

MOAR EDIT: I would also agree if the only way to get 13*s at all was from the AC shop. Which I should stress, was basically a thing in Cosmic Break.

[yoshiblue]

Hey man, my sniper rifle, that I paid for, doesn't like it when you say it's 2 million dollar 5000mph heat seeking bullets are P2W.

[Kondibon]

Hey man, my sniper rifle, that I paid for, doesn't like it when you say it's 2 million dollar 500mph heat seeking bullets are P2W.As someone who played cosmic break this kind of thing is literally why my idea of what's P2W is so high. _(:3

[NoobSpectre]

Lets put it this way... since market is.... flexible, while dudu/monica is not...

Why not just half the meseta amount for grinding? or at least make a 20% discount?

It might save a lot of problem.

[yoshiblue]

Yeah, Combat Arms got rough when they introduced better 1hko snipers you could buy. $30 sniper rifles, but still.

[Sacrificial]

As someone who played cosmic break this kind of thing is literally why my idea of what's P2W is so high. _(:3

Resha? is that you shooting me?

[Vatallus]

TAs every day was tedious. Now that I have 4 characters I find spending 2 hours to run all 4 sets of TAs on a Saturday morning perfectly acceptable. I usually let my DOs build up one my characters then spend 30 minutes to an hour running 7+ Explores/Arks/Bosses in one setting and calling it good for the day.

The problem I have with things currently is... now you are telling me I need to:

1. Run my weekly TAs. ExQs once in a blue moon.
2. Pick up and eventually run my DOs
3. Run Featured Quest daily. Because those sure are a lot of fun... not really.
4. New upcoming COs if I still want to gain meseta so I can deal with this game's economy.

My friend. I'd rather you just give me all the money at once for 2 hours on a Saturday morning so I can spend my time doing other things. Making me rerunning old ARK missions isn't fun. Fishing isn't going to be fun. Mining isn't going to be fun.

If you want us to play other content. Give us a real reason to do it. Give us drops to convince us to run it. Don't hide all the drops behind EQs and specific XH bosses. Why would I rerun Rare Ore Mining after finishing it once on a character? Oh right, because now you tell me I might get a silver or gold key for doing it.

Thanks Sega. I hope EP2 guy gets fired. ;)

[wefwq]

snip
Don't forget about chance for random relevant EQ in the middle of TA/XQ run, thanks for their perfect CO cooldown design it'll mess your schedule next week if it happen.

[Tenlade]

that's your twist on it with which i don't agree, i'll agree though that it's not directly P2W, it's worse, it's pay to gamble for chance to win :wacko: it's almost as bad as those mobile games and pso2es is already bad with being able to pay for quick search, but to each their own :wacko:
Question; if its pay or "gamble" to win, what do you consider winning in this game?

[GHNeko]

the shit in the AC shop gets you to "max" faster.

it doesnt get you above "max"

thats literally the difference in p2w vs f2p. you have to buy shit to keep up with end game and/or stay relevent.

how this is even a conversation is a bit baffling lol.

[Kondibon]

the shit in the AC shop gets you to "max" faster.

it doesnt get you above "max"

Thank you for saying in 2 sentences what I was trying to say in paragraphs. 3:

[Lostbob117]

So basically in a nut shell

Most people usually only do VH, SH TACOs, including the 2 oddballs, and XQCOs.

Which is 2,250,000 Meseta.

The max you can get from Klotho is 2,850,000 Meseta

70% of that is 1,995,000 Meseta.

So the difference is 255,000 Meseta if you don't do N and H TACOs.

It's not that bad considering how it seems the fishing/mining COs seem to be 100k each or so.

[elryan]

So basically in a nut shell

Most people usually only do VH, SH TACOs, including the 2 oddballs, and XQCOs.

Which is 2,250,000 Meseta.

The max you can get from Klotho is 2,850,000 Meseta

70% of that is 1,995,000 Meseta.

So the difference is 255,000 Meseta.

It's not that bad considering how it seems the fishing/mining COs seem to be 100k each or so.

I'm pretty sure I read that they meant 70% of total thing including N and H.

EDIT: fuck i'm stupid

EDIT 2:

I will attempt to break down the new TACOs using known variables.

It's known that each TA will have a CO for 60k each.
We have 7 TA: Nab, Lil, Amd, Nab2, Sanc, Vopar, Kuron

1,995,000 Meseta - 7 x 60,000 = 1,575,000

Then we'll have 3 VH TACOs. First one is known to be valued at 200,000.
Assuming we'll use the XQ CO increments, the 2nd CO will be valued 300,000 and the 3rd one will be valued 450,000.

1,575,000 - 200,000 - 300,000 - 450,000 = 625,000

Currently, XQ gives you: 150,000 + 250,000 + 400,000 = 800,000.
So that the total amount will be exactly 70%, XQ CO total payout will be reduced from 800,000 to 625,000. (around 22%)

XQ will be consolidated from 3 CO to 2 CO. Assuming we'll keep the ratio of first two CO, we'll have 1st CO = 234,375 and 2nd CO = 390,625. To be rounded.

TL;DR Here are what people would expect to see after klotho rebalance:

Naberius TA 60,000
Lilipa TA 60,000
Amduscia TA 60,000
Naberius II TA 60,000
Sanctum TA 60,000
Vopar TA 60,000
Kuron TA 60,000
VH TA I 200,000
VH TA II 300,000
VH TA III 450,000
XQ I 250,000
XQ II 375,000

Should be more or less like that but take my words with a grain of salt.

[Lostbob117]

I'm pretty sure I read that they meant 70% of total thing including N and H.

Yes, 2,850,000 * .7 = 1,995,000

[Manta Oyamada]

Why Sega ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaRBHQlEu-o

[Zorak000]

I've been slacking on tacos/xqcos/featured quests lately, as other people have mentioned, they feel like a chore that is preventing me from playing the content I want to play.

lately I had been logging in, doing tacos or xqcos on one character, featured quests, then an eq that was scheduled then I hardly had time to do anything else before logging off

[Keilyn]

I like thinking about economic systems.

When SEGA added a free third character slot, it meant that each player had the ability to improve their personal CO MESETA generation by 50% at most.

The calculation for this is as follows

(x+1)/x

Where x is the number of character slots one used to have before the summoner update.

I had four character slots, so that would make x = 4, meaning 5/4 = 1.25. A player with 2 character slots would be 3/2 = 1.5.

----------------------------------------------------

Two things to consider:

Value of Meseta
Amount of Meseta

Elryan mentioned the 2,250,000 that most players get from what most players do. This does not count the Daily Orders mixed in which give more money. This means that this is a MINIMUM AVERAGE I am working on.

Here are my steps and logic

1) I turn 2,250,000 into scientific notation which is 2.25 x 10^6

2) I assume players on average now will run it with 2 characters under the belief that while there are players like myself with more than 2 characters, that there are players with one character who never run them...so I keep it at 2. This is a minimum basis, so it works, but I would be eternally fucked if I dare call this a maximum basis...

3) I make the claim that 100 players will run this on two characters.

4) 2 characters x 2.25 = 4.5

5) 100 players mean that I multiply 10^6 x 10^2 = 10^8

6) 4.5 x 10^8 = 450 million / per 100 players that run this on 2 characters per week.

Note: This is meseta generated from Klotho alone...

Now lets consider daily orders that average at 110K each and there are 28 of them assuming that 7 of them would be time consuming ones we dont want on the path of least resistance....orders like COLLECT or KILL ORDERS and the last one is the RODOS order we get once a week for 250K. (14 VH orders & 14 SH orders/ per week)

1) 1.1 x 10^5 x 20 orders = 2.2 x 10^6

2) adding the Rodos order 2.2 x 10^6 + 2.5 x 10^5 = 2.45 x 10^6

3) now lets assume 100 players run this order on 2 characters each...

4) 2 x 2.45 = 4.9, 10^6 * 10^2 = 10^8, we have "4.9 x 10^8"

Ok, now we have to add these two together....

4.9 x 10^8 + 4.5 x 10^8 = 9.4 x 10^8

Basically its 940 million, and with the orders accepted during featured quests as well as the N and H DO for Klotho as well....this easily breaks 1 billion per week.

It can be viewed as 200 players running it all on one character, or 100 players running it all on two characters. The answer is the same....


Of course these ships have a lot more than simply 100 players... The amount of MESETA that is generated is astronomical on a ship-wide level every week...


SEGAs Answer
--------------------------

Transform excubes into a personal currency for endgame:

This happens in many games and forces rich players who have tons of money to still play the game. SEGAs plan is for players to keep going around getting those Excubes to have their endgame dreams come true. Without Excubes there is not so much you can do in grinding and affixing without a higher failure rate.


Create Rare Stones and use them as currency for endgame:

They have succeeded. People bitch and complain, but what do they do? They run all the XH stuff for the excubes, stones, and badges.....simple as that....

In short SEGA not only created a new currency-system, but they also made such a system untradable. They then binded MESETA together with it to tell the population

"You need three types of currency to play at endgame, Meseta, Excube, and Stones" and if you lack in one of them, you can't continue..." (unless of course its just affixing/grinding)


Arks Cash:

A lot of players turn AC into MESETA through scratch, but SEGA also increased storage space, added more stones and a lot of players decided to go from 100 inventory spaces to 150 on their main character. In fact their scratch stuff has been popular and expensive as hell these rotations around.


13* weapon Meseta SINK:

Grind Skip 5 helped out here a lot, making the cost around 5 million + several number of Grind +30%s to grind 13* to +40....Still expensive...

More and More Money and Time sinks.... ^_^



I am one of the believes that PSO2 is a P2W game, but just because its P2W in my eyes does not mean I do not like the game. In fact I am subscribed to the game, but I acknowledge that it is P2W for so many reasons. ;)

[jooozek]

Question; if its pay or "gamble" to win, what do you consider winning in this game?

if you get an edge or a shortcut that saves you ten times the time/resources you'd have to spend over someone who isn't paying i consider that "winning", if at any point some content will come out that will have some form of gear checks it will become more apparent but as such thing happening is very unlikely i can see why people don't want to see it as p2w but to me it's p2w at this stage already :innocent: pets having cooldowns to feed them that are avoidable through AC? the new gathering coming out also apparently relies on some stamina system, all i see is mobile garbage coming out recently :wacko:

speaking of mobile garbage
[SPOILER-BOX]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zsyzHN-EBQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zsyzHN-EBQ[/SPOILER-BOX]

[Kondibon]

if you get an edge or a shortcut that saves you ten times the time/resources you'd have to spend over someone who isn't paying i consider that "winning"But having shiny gear and lots of messeta doesn't automatically make you better at the game. Saving time for that kind of stuff is LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE OF P2W. Like GHNeko said, P2W is when people can pay to go beyond what's possible for free players, not just reaching the cap faster. There's absolutely nothing P2W about some extra convenience and time saving.

[Keilyn]

Like a loved one said once... (paraphrased)

...and this might make you angry...

"I played PSO2, I tried a single character and managed to get the victory flag with weak weapons...what gives? but its ok.....20 hours into the game and I already got a 'Congratulations, You are the hero" type exist. I won already since the game did give me the victory flag so there is no reason for me to stay here...

....who puts the final boss in a lower difficulty anyway? At least the original had stage 3 falz later...

...anyhow, I won and that was easy...time for bigger, better things...

Unfortunately,

I agree with her....
We all already WON THE GAME and got the victory flags and some got the story victory flags. So its just waiting for updates.. If you are staying in the game its just either you have people you like to play with, or you want to improve your character to see how far you can go, and to be satisfied you will play SH or XH when the main villain can be wiped on N.....

So we are here for other purposes....
Other reasons and consideration.....

That is the way it truly goes.

I just like my characters, meeting people, and playing in my own way as well....

[Kondibon]

It's worth mentioning that the term "P2W" can refer to smaller instances of winning, such as completing a mission, or winning a game in an FPS. Which is why I disagree with jooozek, as I feel the stuff he's listing is inevitabilities that you can just speed up for convenience, as opposed to skipping hard progress. You still have to get the eggs, and you still have to go mine for fish, even if you payed to do it again sooner. Sure, you'll finish faster, but even then, they're a means to an end and not a core part of the gameplay.

It's like the difference between a Karate class that you can pay to go to class more often, vs one where you can pay to skip class and just get the next belt.

[Raujinn]

People's standards of what is and is not pay to win vary hugely and it isn't helped that the term is honestly pretty difficult to impossible to really define a black and white is/isn't definition of it. It's part of what makes the "P2W" criticism carry little weight anymore. You have to be more specific.

Point is debating what is and isn't "P2W" is arguably a pointless exercise. I would however incidentally argue that "Pay for convenience" absolutely can venture into what many would consider P2W, particularly if it's such a dramatic shortcut that you might be talking about a time period of say... months instead of 2 days. The standards here vary widely from person to person too though. I mean I felt pretty annoyed about people getting maxed Austere in 1 week as opposed to 8 because they'd paid to park alts on other ships to speed up Caligula/Nero acquisition... While I don't consider that kind of period so much p2w in this context, some might. Some feel dedicating 8 weeks to a game is a long-ass time and I'm not far from agreeing tbh.

I mostly despise how skill trees and mags are pay to reset. Cash to fix noob traps is a diabolical notion. The rest is less of a concern to me, though hiding 10-12* trading (beyond the freebies anyway) behind premium is kinda shitty.

[Tunga]

The only thing i would consider p2w is when that guy wasted a lot of scape dolls clearing XQ. You're not hurting other players by buying exp boost or ship jumping so i don't see the big deal.

[TaigaUC]

I think there needs to be different terms.
There are games where you literally have to pay or you cannot win or progress.
Then there are games where you can pay to get stronger, but it's not like you really need to.
There are also games where you can just pay to not bother with boring crap.
And games like PSO2 were you have to pay to fix mistakes.

Well, they are all annoying to me.

[Keilyn]

This is one of the few threads I've actually enjoyed replying to the people in.....I feel I can actually be an educator and a person here as well. Hopefully my stuff is read and not utterly ignored...

P2W has a definition I do teach in classrooms, because over half of the students I have at all grade levels I've taught play games. Girls are more exposed to the P2W games than the boys are, while boys are more into Console Games. Sorry, but I hardly hear of many people in schools talk about PC games unless its on a console....

The definition I teach is the following in three tiers:

Pay2Win is a player-created term meaning that real money is used in purchasing gameplay advantages for the said player in either a passive form or an active form. This form causes gameplay to become unbalanced in the presence of other players, and in some titles it becomes a dependency for progress to continue. This term applies to Online Games where the action is either PvP or PvE.

I asked students in my classes first as an entire class as I wrote them on the whiteboard the following question: "Please tell me something you come across in an online game that can be bought with real money that you feel is unfair."

The students asked me "You're a gamer... Aren't you going to add anything?"

and I said "This is your class, so I want you to generate the list so we can define things. I don't want to introduce personal bias, because trust me... I am human, and we're all biased creatures."

10 minutes later we have 23 things on the board.....

I said "Please do not use your ipads or smart phones." You noticed that I numbered these from 1 through 23. I am giving each of you a sheet of paper. Write your name on the back of the paper, not the front. On this paper you are going to vote on the top four things listed on the board you feel are a disadvantage.

Your first choice counts for 4 points
Your second choice counts for 3 points
Your third choice counts for 2 points
Your fouth choice counts for 1 point

I have a program launched on the projector which I wrote in which I will push the button and it will tally the votes corresponding to the four places. Once you give me your paper, you can not change your mind...

I also need a volunteer.
The class representative is going to read the votes. If you have less than four elements chosen, we will accept them. If you have over four, only the first four will be accepted.

Basically if a student did not like item #22. they would write "#22. 1st

Combined across the classrooms I've taught, Ive kept class-results and combined results. Programming is a nice thing....

The top eight elements students have actually voted on being considered to be unfair in a game are:

1) Having little to no inventory space to grab everything while people can have 2 - 6x more space from paying money for it.

2) Being restricted to the kind of character one can have from not paying for a game.

3) Knowing the person next to you has double to five times the rare drop rate and is always walking around with a boost because he "pays" for a subscription...

4) Dying in a game and being told that if you pay real money, you can buy an item that will resurrect you....

5) Guilds and Teams being Segregated based on subscription or expansion/DLC ownership.

6) Playershop taxes and restrictions over subscribers

7) Boost Items in cash shop regardless the form of acquisition...

8) Equipment / Levels hidden behind gates, requiring special order purchase or subscription based purchase...


I picked three students and asked "why?" on each of these eight....

combined paraphrased responses were:

1) Its feels good but when we get to tokens and raids, you need double to triple the space to pick everything up or have to lose what you fought hard for.

2) Its just not cool to be given so many options in a video on youtube to find you can only be what you want to be if you pay for it.

3) the reason I win is because the guy next to me pays for a boost which benefits me indirectly....

4) Its just not cool....

5) "I am in two games now and I can't join any good guilds because I am not subscribed or own an add-on"

6) It takes us longer to get our drops, so why should we pay more taxes for selling the same thing someone got easily?

7) the students gave examples of PvP and PvE where entire groups were on boost items and how that changed the game...

8) This one I feel is universal as everyone had something to say and the intensity and desire to give answers had more than three answering.


//==================================

The next part of the assignment was to determine "Severity"

I explained that P2W started from player-mentality, and so we to answer the following question:

"Suppose you knew a game was coming out next week. You are hyped and you know you want to play it. You find out the game you are going to play is going to have someone of these eight things... I want a show of hands starting with one. Once you fail to raise your hand you can not raise it again until the end.

How many of you will play the game you want even with one of these things existing? Around 75% of the class actually raised their hand. Usually around 75 - 90% raise their hand....

I learned that people seem to hover around ODD numbers because it was similar for two....

So I asked....

How many of you will play the game you want even if three of these things appeared?

Less than half the class usually to around 50% raise their hands.

(This is important because this is in fact saying that HALF THE POPULATION refuses to play a game that has three of these eight elements in it.)

I asked

"How many of you will play the game you want even if five of these things appear" and this fell already to 25% or less......

So I had to ask

"How many would play the game you want if seven of the items on this list appear in this game?" ...and usually there is around 1 - 2 people in an entire class that actually raise their hand.

I ask them "why?" and they say "If I think I will like it, I will play"

//==========================================

I said "Do you wish for me to comment on these?"
The class said yes....

I said "human beings are biased. I am going to tell you my experiences with the eight...and what I feel, now that you've gone through this...."

1) The current game I play starts each character with 50 inventory spaces, but by the end of the game there will be more than 50 drops and all the players are after tokens. Surviving on 50 slots shared with your equipment, armor, etc.... is a pain and I (and many others bought to 100 and then 150)...

2) This one borderline gets me to not play an MMO or any game for that matter. I find that to be cruel and for the same reasons you have. Nothing is worse having to pay to play the super cool character class you want to be, but even worse is playing the basic class that is going to be killed by the overpowered class you wanted to be which actually cost money.

3) This one I feel is just wrong on so many levels. I subscribe to support the games I like to play, but I know the advantage I get late game stacking everything together. If the company removes the advantage, it replaces it with a placebo and players have no real way to measure it. What I wish is that if we have a Rare Drop Rate, that at least we know what the original Drop Rate are for items to show real proof that every little bit helps..

4) This one is the worse in games that only allow one to revive in this way or lose a lot in Death Penalty. The worse part is that in older games one would get resurrect and then RAGE-QUIT if one dies again five minutes later. In fact there used to be games that allowed this in Spawn-Based PvP..... which was the worse. Now anyone with a wallet could get buy another life or even a continue...

5) This one is everywhere. I played a game where a person became a friend and then said he could not talk to me because he said he was German and I was American and his group did not want anyone who was not German in the group or in their presence. I remember being told I was causing discrimination in a group I put together because I only allowed Americans in the group who lived in NA. I had to actually send a letter to the parent company when my account was put on hold saying that my recruitment is up to my own business and the reason I recruited in the three hour timezone was in order to organized and run better.......... and yes... I've been in Guilds where if I don't buy the latest expansion or continue subscribing, I can't be part of those guilds... This is a problem in F2Ps...

6) This one I agree with you as well because of the games where non-subbed players charge a lot lower to deal with the higher taxes and then Rich players snatch it up and resell it at the lower tax rate. This one I can actually attest that it has actually been addressed as a P2W mechanism and has actually ran into Legal trouble.

7) At first I thought it was ok, but a paid- advantage (even on chance) is an advantage...and whether its obtained by chance, or by the player picking the boost, or what not. I've found this to be my own personal opinion of Pay 2 Win. Its not the idea that I can get one of these items, Its the idea that I can dump as much as I want and hope to get more than one....or trade my paid stuff for more of these. Its not the idea that its sold in playershops in different games, but that only by paying for them can you get your hands on them and you get both, a boost and a time-advantage when they are released and they can be applied. This actually covers the ground of Direct, Indirect, Passive, and Active advantages, and they even overlap. Items like these should be rewards to the very best of the very best for going through the worse the game has to offer to prepare them to go even further....

8) POWER TO THE PLAYERS EVERYONE!!! Isn't it great when EA, or Gamestop...does this? Rather than start fair, everyone picks sides or is unbalanced from the start? How about Early Access??? That was your #12....but my #5....


Apologies for this post being SUPER-LONG.
Everything that I wrote here I am able to teach in 45 minutes when my classtime is 70 minutes to teach per class period. I tend to throw homework and writing assignments on top of stuff like this....

The aim of this unit was to teach how opinion is generated and how voting allows the focus of opinion to exist as well. Gaming is hot in the schools and they should know what they are in for....it goes into critical thinking, logic-theories and a lot more. Its a unit that I spent a week teaching.....

My point is:

Regardless who you are here....
If you play MMORPGs, or PSO2, or some full 3D online video game, and you can argue that "Its not P2W" when many elements show it is and many students explain what they feel is P2W....

....it means you are ONE OF THE SELECT FEW who is willing to enter, PAY for a GAME regardless the sheer amount of P2W elements agreed upon. I can walk into a classroom of 11th and 12th graders who havent been completely broken into "accepting their gaming fate" and "giving their money away" without resistance....

...and you know what the difference is between my students and myself?

They are students on the way to becoming adults....
while most of you are adults....

Instead of saying "I PAY MONEY AND ITS NOT P2W" its far better to say "Its P2W, so what? I like it....and as long as I like it, I will play"

I also covered point of view arguments in argument writing.

I had half the class represent P2W players and half the class represent non P2W players in a scenario and we even simulated it with the help of teacher aids in the area and that is when they learned how power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely....

The people who refused to PLAY were not oppressing others and in their argument writing, their writing was VERY SIMILAR to what I have seen in this forumboard and many others... ;) The writing of people who have been tainted by corruptable power and the American Identity that one has to finish whatever is started because that is what MEN are supposed to do and if men don't do it, they feel dishonored...

When men and women were asked what hurts their feelings the most in a poll a few years ago, I remember for men around 84% of the college poll hovered around the answer saying "Not allowing us to finish what we started...and feeling dishonored and disgusted from being relieved and deprived on what we felt we could handle (or meant to do), taken away from us"

..and I get angry if some hack relieves who is not AT LEAST BETTER than me in the area, but even so......I WAS TRUSTED with the assignment...trust me to finish it or at least help with the danger or reassign me within the same assignment....shit!

not that I follow orders, but that I like to see shit done...

[SiZ]

Like GHNeko said, P2W is when people can pay to go beyond what's possible for free players, not just reaching the cap faster.

The best definition so far, imo :-)

[Sandmind]

[removed for space]
I highly recommend reading this wall of text if you care about P2W in any shape... heck even if you didn't.


This was very mind opening. My own definition of P2W had been for the longest time my first exposure to the concept in a F2P mmorpg with PVP. The international (mostly american, and then officially europe) servers CS was selling the materials needed to craft the best gear advaible, gears meant to be farmed by a guild for 1 trusted person for easily a year in the china version (asians love their grind, or eat it up easier in any case). Of course, that gear set was designed to be God-tier compared to the previous top gear you could farm yourself with friends and/or pugs for a long time. IIRC, the calculated cost to getting the complete set, weapon and armor was estimated to 1k USD. :-o Add to that a gear upgrade system that make Dudu look like Jesus and that was just the tip of the iceberg. Let's just say you could double that cost to max out their grind level and adding more stat boosting stone into them. And a few year later, so to not alienate their paying customer, a new gear system (cards) to add even more stat, locked behind ingame RNG box after having run dungeons or spend in the CS for a better box for the best stat cards. :wacko:

----

Compared to that, beyond having a refreshing ARPG gameplay, PSO2's imposing restrictions on freemium players was.... actually I cannot think up a comparaison, bu it felt not wrong at all. I did started paying for premium last year after 2 years of freemium for the missing features, aka selling on player market without the hassle of FUN scratch, 10-12* weapon/unit ticket, inventories and skill trees. Your wall of text surely put back my eyes back in their place, since my listed stuff truly are paid convenience and a big P2W advantage even if the game lack PVP. Sure, these day, we got crafting + red weapon's potential (equal or better than 12*) and 13* are not yet on the players market, bu it's still truly funny how I self conditionned myself to not think it was P2W just because it was PVE. :wacko:

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to be copy-pasting this into a .doc for future refenrence (plus forum name and link). For me, your post was just made of gold.

[Achelousaurus]

I would probably rage at this, if gathering wasn't for the epic skill rings. At first I thought gathering was nothing but a pathetic attempt to copy other mmos but the application is amazing.

And at first I thought tacos would be changed a lot but in the end, little changes aside from the payout.
Some people may want to rush tacos in normal now but with the co giving more rewards the more cos you do in VH or later it sounds like it's still best to do tacos more or less like now.

So in the end I don't actually mind cause for once it seems the new chore is worth it maybe more than tacos are.

As for the XQ cos, I don't mind either cause I always felt like doing 5 xqs just for the money was too much, I got bored after 3.
So this is pretty nice cause I get more money for doing the amount of XQs I can easily do without getting more and might even do the XQCOs on more than one character every 3 weeks now.

I hope gathering lets you afk. Cause I can't imagine that if it requires player input it would be any fun and not just something stupid like button mashing or other lameass "minigames".

PS: FoTe with MH. DO IT!

[wahahaha]

I would probably rage at this, if gathering wasn't for the epic skill rings. At first I thought gathering was nothing but a pathetic attempt to copy other mmos but the application is amazing.
And at first I thought tacos would be changed a lot but in the end, little changes aside from the payout.
Some people may want to rush tacos in normal now but with the co giving more rewards the more cos you do in VH or later it sounds like it's still best to do tacos more or less like now.
So in the end I don't actually mind cause for once it seems the new chore is worth it maybe more than tacos are.
As for the XQ cos, I don't mind either cause I always felt like doing 5 xqs just for the money was too much, I got bored after 3.
So this is pretty nice cause I get more money for doing the amount of XQs I can easily do without getting more and might even do the XQCOs on more than one character every 3 weeks now.

I hope gathering lets you afk. Cause I can't imagine that if it requires player input it would be any fun and not just something stupid like button mashing or other lameass "minigames".

PS: FoTe with MH. DO IT!

You can JA while gathering.

[Zorak000]

There has been a recycle shop item that resets all client order cooldown for AC Scratch items; granted that hasn't been cost effective since the Ultimate update caused AC items to spike in cost due to demand for Grind Skip 7

[Achelousaurus]

Ja gathering. Lol.

[spincast]

[SPOILER-BOX]
This is one of the few threads I've actually enjoyed replying to the people in.....I feel I can actually be an educator and a person here as well. Hopefully my stuff is read and not utterly ignored...

P2W has a definition I do teach in classrooms, because over half of the students I have at all grade levels I've taught play games. Girls are more exposed to the P2W games than the boys are, while boys are more into Console Games. Sorry, but I hardly hear of many people in schools talk about PC games unless its on a console....

The definition I teach is the following in three tiers:

Pay2Win is a player-created term meaning that real money is used in purchasing gameplay advantages for the said player in either a passive form or an active form. This form causes gameplay to become unbalanced in the presence of other players, and in some titles it becomes a dependency for progress to continue. This term applies to Online Games where the action is either PvP or PvE.

I asked students in my classes first as an entire class as I wrote them on the whiteboard the following question: "Please tell me something you come across in an online game that can be bought with real money that you feel is unfair."

The students asked me "You're a gamer... Aren't you going to add anything?"

and I said "This is your class, so I want you to generate the list so we can define things. I don't want to introduce personal bias, because trust me... I am human, and we're all biased creatures."

10 minutes later we have 23 things on the board.....

I said "Please do not use your ipads or smart phones." You noticed that I numbered these from 1 through 23. I am giving each of you a sheet of paper. Write your name on the back of the paper, not the front. On this paper you are going to vote on the top four things listed on the board you feel are a disadvantage.

Your first choice counts for 4 points
Your second choice counts for 3 points
Your third choice counts for 2 points
Your fouth choice counts for 1 point

I have a program launched on the projector which I wrote in which I will push the button and it will tally the votes corresponding to the four places. Once you give me your paper, you can not change your mind...

I also need a volunteer.
The class representative is going to read the votes. If you have less than four elements chosen, we will accept them. If you have over four, only the first four will be accepted.

Basically if a student did not like item #22. they would write "#22. 1st

Combined across the classrooms I've taught, Ive kept class-results and combined results. Programming is a nice thing....

The top eight elements students have actually voted on being considered to be unfair in a game are:

1) Having little to no inventory space to grab everything while people can have 2 - 6x more space from paying money for it.

2) Being restricted to the kind of character one can have from not paying for a game.

3) Knowing the person next to you has double to five times the rare drop rate and is always walking around with a boost because he "pays" for a subscription...

4) Dying in a game and being told that if you pay real money, you can buy an item that will resurrect you....

5) Guilds and Teams being Segregated based on subscription or expansion/DLC ownership.

6) Playershop taxes and restrictions over subscribers

7) Boost Items in cash shop regardless the form of acquisition...

8) Equipment / Levels hidden behind gates, requiring special order purchase or subscription based purchase...


I picked three students and asked "why?" on each of these eight....

combined paraphrased responses were:

1) Its feels good but when we get to tokens and raids, you need double to triple the space to pick everything up or have to lose what you fought hard for.

2) Its just not cool to be given so many options in a video on youtube to find you can only be what you want to be if you pay for it.

3) the reason I win is because the guy next to me pays for a boost which benefits me indirectly....

4) Its just not cool....

5) "I am in two games now and I can't join any good guilds because I am not subscribed or own an add-on"

6) It takes us longer to get our drops, so why should we pay more taxes for selling the same thing someone got easily?

7) the students gave examples of PvP and PvE where entire groups were on boost items and how that changed the game...

8) This one I feel is universal as everyone had something to say and the intensity and desire to give answers had more than three answering.


//==================================

The next part of the assignment was to determine "Severity"

I explained that P2W started from player-mentality, and so we to answer the following question:

"Suppose you knew a game was coming out next week. You are hyped and you know you want to play it. You find out the game you are going to play is going to have someone of these eight things... I want a show of hands starting with one. Once you fail to raise your hand you can not raise it again until the end.

How many of you will play the game you want even with one of these things existing? Around 75% of the class actually raised their hand. Usually around 75 - 90% raise their hand....

I learned that people seem to hover around ODD numbers because it was similar for two....

So I asked....

How many of you will play the game you want even if three of these things appeared?

Less than half the class usually to around 50% raise their hands.

(This is important because this is in fact saying that HALF THE POPULATION refuses to play a game that has three of these eight elements in it.)

I asked

"How many of you will play the game you want even if five of these things appear" and this fell already to 25% or less......

So I had to ask

"How many would play the game you want if seven of the items on this list appear in this game?" ...and usually there is around 1 - 2 people in an entire class that actually raise their hand.

I ask them "why?" and they say "If I think I will like it, I will play"

//==========================================

I said "Do you wish for me to comment on these?"
The class said yes....

I said "human beings are biased. I am going to tell you my experiences with the eight...and what I feel, now that you've gone through this...."

1) The current game I play starts each character with 50 inventory spaces, but by the end of the game there will be more than 50 drops and all the players are after tokens. Surviving on 50 slots shared with your equipment, armor, etc.... is a pain and I (and many others bought to 100 and then 150)...

2) This one borderline gets me to not play an MMO or any game for that matter. I find that to be cruel and for the same reasons you have. Nothing is worse having to pay to play the super cool character class you want to be, but even worse is playing the basic class that is going to be killed by the overpowered class you wanted to be which actually cost money.

3) This one I feel is just wrong on so many levels. I subscribe to support the games I like to play, but I know the advantage I get late game stacking everything together. If the company removes the advantage, it replaces it with a placebo and players have no real way to measure it. What I wish is that if we have a Rare Drop Rate, that at least we know what the original Drop Rate are for items to show real proof that every little bit helps..

4) This one is the worse in games that only allow one to revive in this way or lose a lot in Death Penalty. The worse part is that in older games one would get resurrect and then RAGE-QUIT if one dies again five minutes later. In fact there used to be games that allowed this in Spawn-Based PvP..... which was the worse. Now anyone with a wallet could get buy another life or even a continue...

5) This one is everywhere. I played a game where a person became a friend and then said he could not talk to me because he said he was German and I was American and his group did not want anyone who was not German in the group or in their presence. I remember being told I was causing discrimination in a group I put together because I only allowed Americans in the group who lived in NA. I had to actually send a letter to the parent company when my account was put on hold saying that my recruitment is up to my own business and the reason I recruited in the three hour timezone was in order to organized and run better.......... and yes... I've been in Guilds where if I don't buy the latest expansion or continue subscribing, I can't be part of those guilds... This is a problem in F2Ps...

6) This one I agree with you as well because of the games where non-subbed players charge a lot lower to deal with the higher taxes and then Rich players snatch it up and resell it at the lower tax rate. This one I can actually attest that it has actually been addressed as a P2W mechanism and has actually ran into Legal trouble.

7) At first I thought it was ok, but a paid- advantage (even on chance) is an advantage...and whether its obtained by chance, or by the player picking the boost, or what not. I've found this to be my own personal opinion of Pay 2 Win. Its not the idea that I can get one of these items, Its the idea that I can dump as much as I want and hope to get more than one....or trade my paid stuff for more of these. Its not the idea that its sold in playershops in different games, but that only by paying for them can you get your hands on them and you get both, a boost and a time-advantage when they are released and they can be applied. This actually covers the ground of Direct, Indirect, Passive, and Active advantages, and they even overlap. Items like these should be rewards to the very best of the very best for going through the worse the game has to offer to prepare them to go even further....

8) POWER TO THE PLAYERS EVERYONE!!! Isn't it great when EA, or Gamestop...does this? Rather than start fair, everyone picks sides or is unbalanced from the start? How about Early Access??? That was your #12....but my #5....


Apologies for this post being SUPER-LONG.
Everything that I wrote here I am able to teach in 45 minutes when my classtime is 70 minutes to teach per class period. I tend to throw homework and writing assignments on top of stuff like this....

The aim of this unit was to teach how opinion is generated and how voting allows the focus of opinion to exist as well. Gaming is hot in the schools and they should know what they are in for....it goes into critical thinking, logic-theories and a lot more. Its a unit that I spent a week teaching.....

My point is:

Regardless who you are here....
If you play MMORPGs, or PSO2, or some full 3D online video game, and you can argue that "Its not P2W" when many elements show it is and many students explain what they feel is P2W....

....it means you are ONE OF THE SELECT FEW who is willing to enter, PAY for a GAME regardless the sheer amount of P2W elements agreed upon. I can walk into a classroom of 11th and 12th graders who havent been completely broken into "accepting their gaming fate" and "giving their money away" without resistance....

...and you know what the difference is between my students and myself?

They are students on the way to becoming adults....
while most of you are adults....

Instead of saying "I PAY MONEY AND ITS NOT P2W" its far better to say "Its P2W, so what? I like it....and as long as I like it, I will play"

I also covered point of view arguments in argument writing.

I had half the class represent P2W players and half the class represent non P2W players in a scenario and we even simulated it with the help of teacher aids in the area and that is when they learned how power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely....

The people who refused to PLAY were not oppressing others and in their argument writing, their writing was VERY SIMILAR to what I have seen in this forumboard and many others... ;) The writing of people who have been tainted by corruptable power and the American Identity that one has to finish whatever is started because that is what MEN are supposed to do and if men don't do it, they feel dishonored...

When men and women were asked what hurts their feelings the most in a poll a few years ago, I remember for men around 84% of the college poll hovered around the answer saying "Not allowing us to finish what we started...and feeling dishonored and disgusted from being relieved and deprived on what we felt we could handle (or meant to do), taken away from us"

..and I get angry if some hack relieves who is not AT LEAST BETTER than me in the area, but even so......I WAS TRUSTED with the assignment...trust me to finish it or at least help with the danger or reassign me within the same assignment....shit!

not that I follow orders, but that I like to see shit done...[/SPOILER-BOX]

Good read, thanks for that, was very informative.-
Also gives (to me at least), more reason to totalbiscuit´s video about p2w (and other words) and how they need to be more specific when referring about a game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhAJV5D353w

[Hucast-Kireek]

Welp, there will be a lot of running around now...

[Korima]

The other day the only moment I feel this game was "P2NW" that means "Pay To not Wait" and I don't mean to Level Up Faster it was when I try to Join the Limited Quest and again The search engine shows me parties in Full Blocks where only Premium can join. I joined a 5/12 a MPA in other block for ten minutes, then I checked the number again "3/12" I waited 5 minutes more and nothing, so I joined another 7/12 MPA and this was full in 5 minutes so I waited 20 minutes for a mission that is less than fifteen minutes?

[Tenlade]

The other day the only moment I feel this game was "P2NW" that means "Pay To not Wait" and I don't mean to Level Up Faster it was when I try to Join the Limited Quest and again The search engine shows me parties in Full Blocks where only Premium can join. I joined a 5/12 a MPA in other block for ten minutes, then I checked the number again "3/12" I waited 5 minutes more and nothing, so I joined another 7/12 MPA and this was full in 5 minutes so I waited 20 minutes for a mission that is less than fifteen minutes?

sometimes multiple MPAs can form on a single block and people will jump to the more crowded one or leave the campship after completing it and just running back in to the same one if its not teleporter-gated. so yeah if you join one and the player count starts going down check to see if there isn't another MPA starting already.

premium blocks still give you the advantage of not needing to get into a block a hour early or anything for emergency quests, but its usually not a problem with the limited quest.

[SteveCZ]

Good term I like it. P2NW. It's not P2W, but it's P2NW. :wacko:

[TaigaUC]

People tend to simplify lots of different things under a single term.
But it's often misleading or vague to do so.
The most important thing is conveying meaning so that everyone's on the same page.
Make up a new term if you have to. Maybe it'll catch on.

[Kondibon]

Make up a new term if you have to. Maybe it'll catch on.I wish it were that easy...

[GHNeko]

I wish it were that easy...

Start within the community, and those within will spread the term to other communities.

Seems impossible, but not hard in application. At the very least, it'll become a community term.

[KazukiQZ]

^Gchat did it, seems decent to some extent. TD4 can even S rank x2 if the right AIS usage order is arranged, and people didnt forget to heal towers. Magatsu is abit hard but doable. Dual Falz is easy peasy. Same as PD.

Oh wait, u didnt talk about making MPA, but new term LOL

[Eternal255]

This is good news for me. I only ever ran VH TA's and ignored the rest. Basically means I and the many people who do the same will be getting more meseta.

[TheszNuts]

Btw ppl, Klotho is still asking for you to run all ta stages in order to get his money, so spamming Harkotan 5 times will not get you the full result. Its now spam 5 Harkotan for 1 mil or do the typical 5VH+1NM+1SH for 1.42 mil.

[Kondibon]

Btw ppl, Klotho is still asking for you to run all ta stages in order to get his money, so spamming Harkotan 5 times will not get you the full result. Its now spam 5 Harkotan for 1 mil or do the typical 5VH+1NM+1SH for 1.42 mil.Doesn't that sill mean you can just do 7 Harkotan?

[TheszNuts]

Doesn't that sill mean you can just do 7 Harkotan?

The 7 COs are asking for specific stages.

[Kondibon]

The 7 COs are asking for specific stages.Oh, nevermind then. o wo

[ShinMegamiSensei]

Err, there are generic VH+ tas that you can spam harkotan ta like he said at first. Just not for the 60k area-specific ones. It's 1m with just spam.

[TheszNuts]

-Run 1 each of Nab1, Nab2, Lilipa, Amd, Sanc, Vorpal, Harkotan for 60k meseta, 5000 exp
-1/3/5 of said missions must be VH+ for 200k/250k/300k meseta & 10k/15k/20k exp
-1 mission complete on SH for 250k meseta, 15000 exp

IIRC the exp from these COs took the biggest hits.

[otakun]

but doing the 7 runs seems like a waste of time unless you have DOs to go with them. easier to run Hak 5 or 6 times on multiple characters.

[ShinMegamiSensei]

What's great is that if you only did 5vh1n1sh before the update, doing the same type of thing after the update only gives you 30k less. (Before = 1,450,000; after = 1,420,000)

Or you can just choose to get a quick 1m and be onto the next char. It's a self-induced nerf, if you want it.

[RibbonSoft]

rip. There goes my income from the game. Lost a full 1.2 mil from nerfing the TACOs and XQCOs. Kinda pisses me off actually. Its already hard to get the funds for affixing and grinding, this just makes it even worse.

[Lumpen Thingy]

rip. There goes my income from the game. Lost a full 1.2 mil from nerfing the TACOs and XQCOs. Kinda pisses me off actually. Its already hard to get the funds for affixing and grinding, this just makes it even worse.

all they did was take away the normal and hard COs no one did sooooooo

[otakun]

rip. There goes my income from the game. Lost a full 1.2 mil from nerfing the TACOs and XQCOs. Kinda pisses me off actually. Its already hard to get the funds for affixing and grinding, this just makes it even worse.

buy more characters then.

[RibbonSoft]

Don't have rl monies to buy more characters. U gonna loan me some of yours?

[Lumpen Thingy]

Don't have rl monies to buy more characters. U gonna loan me some of yours?

buy google play cards for $10 at any store. download the emulator for pso2es. profit

[TaigaUC]

I'm surprised RibbonSoft still plays the game.

[Kondibon]

I'm surprised most of the people here still play it.

[elryan]

Previously:

Nab, Nab II, Lilipa, Amduscia, Sanctum = 180K x5 = 900K
Vopar, Harkotan = 160K x2 = 320K
SH = 230K
XQ 5x = 150K + 250K + 400K

Grand Total of 2250K

I think I'll do these things from now on:

SH Naberius II = 250K + 60K + 200K
VH Sanctum = 60K
VH Harkotan x3 = 60K + 250K + 300K
XQ 3x = 200K + 400K = 600K

Grand total of 1780K. -500K per character weekly in exchange for MUCH faster TA

If you are doing each and every TA, you can get extra 60K x4 = 240K. Only -260K but much more effort...

I can live with that.

[TaigaUC]

I'm surprised most of the people here still play it.
True.

[Weiss9029]

So any word on the gathering/mining COs that are supposed to even out the meseta return?

[Skye-Fox713]

So any word on the gathering/mining COs that are supposed to even out the meseta return?

I've seen 3 that give 100k a piece.

[Mio]

Even if we net less money, I approve this change. Running everyweek on everycharacter the TACOs and the XQs was really a chore.

[Vatallus]

I hardly found spending 2 hours every week to run 4 characters in TAs that demanding.. but I guess each to their own. I guess someone people actually did run those normals and hards. Who knew?

[SteveCZ]

I think I'll do these things from now on:

SH Naberius II = 250K + 60K + 200K
VH Sanctum = 60K
VH Harkotan x3 = 60K + 250K + 300K
XQ 3x = 200K + 400K = 600K

Grand total of 1780K. -500K per character weekly in exchange for MUCH faster TA

If you are doing each and every TA, you can get extra 60K x4 = 240K. Only -260K but much more effort...

I can live with that.

I like yours. If I cut sanctum, it's up to 20 min full party, 30 min alone, for 1.72m. :-o

I'm actually really happy with this, cause time is quite expensive for me. :D

[Mio]

I hardly found spending 2 hours every week to run 4 characters in TAs that demanding.. but I guess each to their own. I guess someone people actually did run those normals and hards. Who knew?

I don't know you, but I don't think it was possible to finish all the VHs TACOs in 30 minutes while playing solo.

Amduscia, Lilipa and Vapor are quite long to solo.

Now do that in 4x, it was quite annoying, and due to them being weekly, it's not so easy to find a party to do them with. So solo is often the only option.


I welcome a change that let's me spam Naberius II or Arkhotan.

[elryan]

I hardly found spending 2 hours every week to run 4 characters in TAs that demanding.. but I guess each to their own. I guess someone people actually did run those normals and hards. Who knew?

Fucking bullshit.

2 hours 4 characters means you only took 30 minutes each to do everything.

Let's say you're running at world record time, that is 4 minutes each.
Nab, Nab II, Amduscia, Lilipa, Sanctum, Vopar, Harkotan = 7 x 4 = 28 minutes.
And let XQ be 5 minutes each, assuming we're blazing it at godly time.
5 XQ = 25 minutes.

53 minutes per character, x4 = 212 minutes = at least takes you 3.5 hours to do everything at record speed.

But the thing is, not everyone can run the thing at world record time and not everyone has parties every week. Most TAs are ran solo.

Not to mention fatigue and boredom causes delays. You can expect at least 2x time for ordinary folks. Folks that actually have real life obligations and have Saturday night dates.

It'll take 8 hours to do everything on 4 characters, 4 hours to do everything on 2 characters, for normal players.

[Vatallus]

I said TAs. Not XQs. And no I didn't run solo I do them duo generally.

Nab I VH takes 4 mins. Nab II VH takes 4. Lilipa VH is 5. Amd VH is 6 or 7 depending on how bad we mess up. Sanc VH is 5-6. Kuron SH is 2-3. Beach N is 3-4.

33 minutes taking our bad times. Probably 36 to 37 to be realistic because of things between each run. Don't run at record pace but most of us are capable of doings these at an acceptable speed. There are a good handful of players even faster than this. Oh dear it wasn't exactly 30 minutes. Don't take everything so literal.

I don't actually know anyone in my team or friendlist that run the Normal and Hard COs. So for most of us we barely lost anything out of this change.

[GHNeko]

to be fair, adding an extra 3-7 mins per set adds up over multiple characters lol. And that's not a small amount of extra time being used. That's like 10-20% extra time.

And unless people have a reason to not take you literally, why wouldnt they take you literally when you're making claims of how long things take you and you're not making it obvious that you're only giving a rough estimate lol.


Your post also had a bit of a condesending tone, adding to the impression that your claim of how long you take was more "valid".

[Vatallus]

I guess. I personally don't see it that way. Even with the add up because of us talking or doing other things away from the PC it doesn't surpass 3 hours.

But you can't honestly expect me to reply in a nice manner when someone gives me a story that wasn't even part of what I said. Even with the added time of us talking instead of running it doesnt surpass 3 hours.

[GHNeko]

Moving the goal posts lol.

The original criticism was directed at your original post.

[Vatallus]

But I don't see how what I said is condescending. I have not seen anyone I know run N/H TAs in nearly a year. No one on my team or list does. No one in my old team did. Even when people claimed they needed meseta they weren't touched. Most of us were fine just running the VH/SH/N setup and being done with it. Only did ExQ COs when I needed stones or someone wanted to farm 45-50 for units. Even one of my team managers runs 10 sets of VH/SH/N TAs a week on two days at specific times. I'm not sure what to suggest if people do these solo. For my runs its pretty much just Saturday morning around 7am and its done before 10. I still get to enjoy my day.

But my original post did in fact never state ExQs.

So I guess sue me for giving a rough estimate that was barely off. People are trying to tell us it takes forever to do TAs when it really didn't unless you ran N/Hard. Which again I haven't seen anyone do in a long period of time and didn't know people actually still did that. None of us did until Sega claimed that was the case. Nor do anyone of us (my team) understand why anyone would. Would have been better off farming AQs for affixes to sell tbh. Though maybe that isn't as viable anymore since it feels like Shop Passes are even harder to get now.

We should probably just move along with the original topic since I have no plans on apologizing for something I didn't actually try to sound like.

And to be completely fair my 2nd post wasn't directed at Mio. Just before that somehow becomes and issue too.

[GHNeko]

b

10 b

[Achelousaurus]

HOLY SHIT!
WTF SEGA?

I thought Klotho cos were supposed to be at 70% of before.
Instead they are at 98%!
Awesome!

Occasionally Sega does some good stuff after all.

[Mio]

Maybe for you 3 hours is an acceptable time, there are people that find it difficult to have the time to play the game and when they do, maybe they don't want to spend all the time doing TAs.

As I said earlier, I welcome this change, and your original 30minutes statament became now 3 hours.

I can clear my chars TA in that timeframe as well, yet it was a terrible chore, then if you add the XQCO the number goes up.

Due to this I was sincerely unable to keep it weekly.

So yeah, spamming faster even if solo TAs like NAB II? Yes Please.

[Achelousaurus]

No idea what you are talking about. Honestly.

[Nitro Vordex]

I like how no one mentioned that TA's are just boring as fuck and zero fun, which is what makes them so tedious in the first place.

[DRAGONxNOGARD]

cya klotho...was nice to meet you

[Asuka~]

I like how no one mentioned that TA's are just boring as fuck and zero fun, which is what makes them so tedious in the first place.

I'm in the middle of a set right now. Taking like a 2 minute break though because oh my God.

[Nitro Vordex]

I guess that's the price you pay for relatively easy money.

[aloola]

well, at least you can solo TA now. and with full run , 630'd on lilipa/amdusia doesn't hurt anymore

[Z-0]

I like how no one mentioned that TA's are just boring as fuck and zero fun, which is what makes them so tedious in the first place.
idk they're more interesting than mindlessly running in circles though

[Zysets]

Money wise, I feel like I'm good so the reduction in payout doesn't hurt me or help me at all, but I'm glad they streamlined it. Even if I don't actually need the money, I always felt obligated to do any available TACOs before anything else, even if I didn't actually want to do them. I guess it's habit from when I used to grind meseta all the time.

[TaigaUC]

I like TA more than most of PSO2, but I don't like doing the same shit over and over.
PSO2 seriously needs more game mode variation that isn't procedurally generated random crap.

*glares at Gathering system*

[yoshiblue]

Put all the big money behind a mode that requires actual tanking and supporting. :wacko:

[The Walrus]

PSO2


actual tanking and supporting

http://i.imgur.com/dpG25YP.gif

[Kondibon]

If any content that required tanking and support more complicated than WB, Zanverse, and pulling bosses off of towers in TD showed up in PSO2, then people would bitch and moan about how it doesn't reward "skillful play", and how everyone should be "pulling their weight" in damage, and how the holy trinity eats babies.

[Selphea]

I wouldn't mind a 200k quest for 1x Lilipa UQ + 1x Nab UQ S Rank

Not hard but at least gives a reason to do em otherwise they're abandoned.

[GHNeko]

idk they're more interesting than mindlessly running in circles though

You're the outlier. lmfao

[TaigaUC]

Didn't PSO1 have a boss battle mode and some other stuff that PSO2 still doesn't?

[Achelousaurus]

I like how no one mentioned that TA's are just boring as fuck and zero fun, which is what makes them so tedious in the first place.
I really like them D:
They are some of the handful instances where PSO2 has quests as interesting and fun as old PSO1 stuff.
Not just "do this 1 e-code at the end and make sure to kill enough enemies beforehand".


I like TA more than most of PSO2, but I don't like doing the same shit over and over.
PSO2 seriously needs more game mode variation that isn't procedurally generated random crap.

*glares at Gathering system*
We just need tas for every area in the game >:O


You're the outlier. lmfao
But cause people literally couldn't play xmas properly and only farmed a single circuit, Valentines was a circular race track.
GJ at whoever found and spread that route.


Didn't PSO1 have a boss battle mode and some other stuff that PSO2 still doesn't?
A lot.
The boss battle "mode" were 2 boss gauntlet run quests most people spammed all day.
Tons of exp cause few normal enemies in short areas > area boss.

But since PSO2 has e-codes which can include bosses, any average mobbing eq has 2-3 times that many boss fights anyway.
just had a White Day with 2x Shrayda, 2x Noire, 2x Ragne, Hunar + Apprentice, 4 Wolgas and the new boosted Quartz at the end. That's like 3 TTFs in a row.
And far, FAR more entertaining.

What made PSO1 fun was stuff like the retrieval quests with lots of tough enemies as well as well placed traps (not that traps are good in general) and switches/fences that spiced things up a lot, similar to PSO2 Tas.
Or massacre quests where you killed tons of and tons of enemies (but had to pipe back to ship and down again to fix the ridiculously horrible cam).
Like Endless Nightmares, War of Attrition, Phantasmal World (of which 4 also had some interesting new mechanics as well as being in Tower which itself was very fun and different from regular areas).
And of course Max Attack. boy was I disappointed when I realized the PSO2 isn't a quest but a web event thing.
Max Attack quests were like a PSE burst with a time limit. Do kill at 300 enemies and minibosses before time runs out. So much fun.

One reason I used to love TD is cause it's the only thing PSO2 has close to PSO1 massacre quests. But pugs ruined them ._.

This is one of PSO2's main flaws. All the readily available fun you only need 3 more people for in PSO1 (could do with less ofc but lets just use the supposed # of players) is now locked behind either a schedule or the RNG and it can literally be week or maybe even months between occurances. Even if you manage to get this quest, there is no guarantee it's gonna be good cause people will rush due to limited eq time and since you need 12 people you need to play with randoms that tend to screw up everything.

And most readily available quests in PSO2 are too short and too simple. Before dailies people didn't even give a fuck about explorations and arks quests.
Also, Sega should just enable XH mode for all quests. That would keep people busy for a good while cause we can get 12* in XH and the exp would be nice and stuff wouldn't die instantly like in SH.
But maybe they are aiming for the 2 year mark since we got XH for the first time.

[Meteor Weapon]

I've been wondering if JP's ever complained how the Tokyo and Kuron Exploration works like Ultimate Quest, cuz for fucks sake I really hated the point system they put it in, the Free Exploration feeling is now lost. Those Kaga stones should just be an E-Code reward or something instead of "complete field to get those", it's tedious to go Campship back and forth, and if you're unlucky you could end up being in a 1/12 MPA for no reason lol.

[Z-0]

You're the outlier. lmfao
I think it's more the majority of people don't give a shit what the content is as long as they get dank items, exp or meseta (or whatever).

[Hrith]

SEGA are really good at adding content and then abandoning it. It would work more if the playerbase was constituted of shallow players with the attention span of an oyster, but let's face it, PSO2 has a larger proportion of hardcore players than SEGA seem to think.

SEGA: 'look, new content!'
Players: 'yeah, but you have not touched other features in ages that would really need to be expanded upon.'
SEGA: 'you can mine tomatoes!'

Anyway, topic about Klotho: the new client orders have not changed much, you still have to do all seven missions - five in VH, one in N, one in SH. It's just that now you can choose which mission to do in which difficulty setting.

The client orders about EX missions are obviously shorter (three runs instead of five), but since I usually took them to complete runs... The good thing is that if you are only doing three runs for the money, the runs cost you zero Extreme Pass - two back from Klotho, one from Alys.

[Z-0]

Anyway, topic about Klotho: the new client orders have not changed much, you still have to do all seven missions - five in VH, one in N, one in SH. It's just that now you can choose which mission to do in which difficulty setting.

The client orders about EX missions are obviously shorter (three runs instead of five), but since I usually took them to complete runs... The good thing is that if you are only doing three runs for the money, the runs cost you zero Extreme Pass - two back from Klotho, one from Alys.
Well the idea is that they've moved the majority of meseta to specific COs (The VHTA COs and the XQCOs, I guess), so you can get the majority of meseta (1,060,000) by just running Harkotan 5 times. You'll miss 360K meseta, but you'd really have to not value your time to really want that meseta.

[TaigaUC]

I noticed that nobody does Tokyo. At all.
It also takes forever to do Free Tokyo alone.