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Sesheenku
Feb 27, 2016, 01:48 PM
So I'm coming back after about two years, I left a level 58 fighter 40 Hunter.

I was never a particularly rich player and it was too much of a pain to get premium back then and until I get my tax return I still can't get it.

Anyways I've been using Shouldot set at +10 each unit has vol soul and 224 S-def.

I've heard people recommending to use stuff like Blitz/Gloam set but... I already can only take two hits on VH, only one from certain boss attacks. Their def appears to be far worse than what I'm using now.

I know they have a set bonus but it doesn't look like it's going to help much? Is it really that much better than what I've been using?

Serinah
Feb 27, 2016, 01:57 PM
If units have a good set bonus but low defensive stats, you can always go ahead and craft them. They'll retain their set bonus, but their individual stats will change.

Furthermore at extend level 3, 8 and 10 you can special craft them to have +100 hp or +10 pp

Sesheenku
Feb 27, 2016, 01:59 PM
If units have a good set bonus but low defensive stats, you can always go ahead and craft them. They'll retain their set bonus, but their individual stats will change.

Furthermore at extend level 3, 8 and 10 you can special craft them to have +100 hp or +10 pp

Ah, I'd heard about that. People crafting Hiei set until the stats are capable of handling VH/SH.

If that's what has to be done I guess that's fine.

elryan
Feb 27, 2016, 02:09 PM
S-Tier: Beast ATK values. Huge PP values. Robust defenses. Unfortunately exclusive to Orbit weapons?

Austere Rear & Arm + Orbit Set (Leg + Weapon)
310 HP, 42 PP, 12%/14%/14% DEF, 110 ATK, 80 DEX
Top of the line. Dat HP. Dat PP. Dat resists. ATK above 100.

Kaiser Set + Orbit Set
50 HP, 37 PP, 8%/10%/4% DEF, 140 S/R-ATK, 80 DEX
Awesome ATK. Awesome PP. Relatively balanced defenses. Some HP to help you from going splat. Yay.

Full Austere Set
260 HP, 35 PP, 10% DEF, 140 ATK, 100 DEX
Apparently Austere Leg + Weapon gives DEF not ATK.

A-Tier: End-game. Amazing HP/PP. Great defenses. Impressive ATKs.

Saiki Set
150 HP, 25 PP, 12%/12%/0% DEF, 60 ATK, 80 DEX
Can be PP crafted to 0 HP, 25 +30 PP, 0%/12%/0% DEF, 60 ATK, 80 DEX
Godly PP but ATK and defenses unfortunately fell short of fellow S-Tiered sets.

Ideal Set + Weapon
250 HP, 23 PP, Flat 6% DEF + Rainbow 6% DEF, 150 ATK, 80 DEX
Monster ATK and solid defenses but unfortunately PP fell abit short compared to S-Tiered sets.

Brisa Set
200 HP, 20 PP, 12%/9%/0% DEF, 12% Rainbow DEF, 70 ATK, 50 DEX

Invader Set + Weapon
120 HP, 28 PP, 9%/6%/9% DEF, 140 ATK, 150 DEX
Despite the ATK, only a few classes can utilize the Invader weapons effectively due to damage variance. (Bouncer and Fighter comes to mind).
Also PP is lacking. So downgraded to A.

PP Crafted Tian Set + Orbit Set
50 HP, 37 PP, 2%/12%/4% DEF, 140 R-ATK, 30 DEX
Downgraded to A because of unbalanced defenses. Zannen.

B-Tier: Easy to obtain. Usable in XH but you can do better than that!

Ideal Set (without weapons)
250 HP, 15 PP, Flat 6% DEF, 75 ATK, 40 DEX

Zieg Set (without weapons)

C-Tier: Limited bonuses. Great for carrying through SH.

PP Crafted Hiei
0 HP, 10 + 30 PP, 0%/12%/0% DEF, 60 ATK

XQ Set
0/30/60/90/120/150 HP, 15/12/9/6/3/0 PP, 6%/0%/0% DEF, 90 ATK.



55PP (or 100 HP 45 PP) definitely justifies being top tier

http://i.imgur.com/R2QnVsD.png

You know, there's a reason everyone and their cats are cramming the highest ATK affixes around... (http://www.fulldive.nu/2015/01/06/pso2-affixing-101/)

My judgment of Saiki not being S-Tier because of 60 ATK remains.

That said, I still use Saiki and Brisa.


Zieg is 50 ATK and 4 PP with poor individual unit stats is it not? And you have to re-affix it with a Dudu fee equal to Saiki. How is it better than crafted Hiei? o_o;

Stat-wise C and B-tier units are not that much different.

B-Tier units grant you wide resistances against incoming damages (Zieg's Set grants you 12% defense against an attack type of choice plus 6% flat for the rest of damage types; Ideal Set gives 6% flat against all damage types plus rainbow defenses). Total resistances when combined = 18% - 24%.

C-Tier units grant you only a single damage type resistance for low/medium amount. (Total resistances when combined only 6-12%).

Somebody might come and argue about "MUH PP" but I believe a dead DPS is 0 DPS AND shit happens. Those resistances let you survive a hit that otherwise kills you in one blow.

But hey, both are not end-game gears. They're just gateways to A/S-tier units.


People still get this wrong >_<

So no, full Austere set isn't +140 ATK but +60 ATK and +80 DEF.


Holy shit I'm a fucking retard.

Revised abit. Austere + Orbit gives ginormous amount of HP, defenses and PP beyond other sets (although ATK is below Kaiser combo / Full Ideal) so it stays at S.

Qualia
Feb 27, 2016, 02:17 PM
Saiki A-tier? Lmao

Sesheenku
Feb 27, 2016, 02:52 PM
Okay s a friend showed me Zieg gives you access to 11 star weapons but every time I click client orders it gives me a ribbon with ep3 and Japanese text.

Do I need to do story mode until ep 3 or something?

elryan
Feb 27, 2016, 02:53 PM
Okay s a friend showed me Zieg gives you access to 11 star weapons but every time I click client orders it gives me a ribbon with ep3 and Japanese text.

Do I need to do story mode until ep 3 or something?

Switch login to episode 4.

But seriously, don't use Zieg's weapons.


Sorry I actually meant units x} are they bad too?

Zieg's unit are okay-ish until you get better ones. They give you acceptable amounts of HP / PP / ATK until you can get something like Saiki / Brisa.

Sesheenku
Feb 27, 2016, 02:54 PM
Switch login to episode 4.

But seriously, don't use Zieg's weapons.

Sorry I actually meant units x} are they bad too?

I realized I didn't have my units equipped... I was doing all that stuff yesterday with no units.

escarlata
Feb 27, 2016, 03:43 PM
Yes because S-tier provides almost 40 PP with 140 ATK and respectable defenses AND synergizes with the two best weapons archetypes in the game. Saiki doesn't match them (unless you craft them. God forbid you lose that 12% defenses).
Saiki (in fact almost all units) should definitely be crafted, either for full PP or a mix of HP and PP. Besides, you do not lose all 12% of the defenses when crafting;
PP craft gives 4% rdef a piece, HP craft gives 4% sdef a piece (source (http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%82%AF%E3%83%A9%E3%83%95%E3%83%88%2F% E6%AD%A6%E8%A3%85%E3%82%A8%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9%E3%83 %86%E3%83%B3%E3%83%89%E3%83%AC%E3%82%B7%E3%83%94#a 2f441b0))

55PP (or 100 HP 45 PP) definitely justifies being top tier

Flaoc
Feb 27, 2016, 03:44 PM
saiki is top of the s tier sorry not sorry austere units give 60 atk and less pp and have far worse requirements to get and kaiser orbit only good for gunners (also 1hpp 2pp craft is good for xh/ult triple pp for competitive ta) and i dont wanna seee that lool? just dont get hit cause that isnt the reality considering even good players get hit.

TaigaUC
Feb 27, 2016, 04:04 PM
Zieg units are great. They're not the best, but they're easy to get and can keep you alive with decent damage.
Only problem is any money you put into them can't be regained because they're not resellable.

I think that if Austere set wasn't good (for whatever reason), it probably wouldn't be selling for 14m a piece. It used to be 3-5m.
Anyway, I don't have it myself. I had two pieces of Invade, but sold them because I'd rather have 10m+ x2 than a slight upgrade.

Sesheenku
Feb 27, 2016, 05:14 PM
Kai, Zieg it is, to start with at least.

Selphea
Feb 27, 2016, 06:59 PM
Zieg is 50 ATK and 4 PP with poor individual unit stats is it not? And you have to re-affix it with a Dudu fee equal to Saiki. How is it better than crafted Hiei? o_o;

schnee4
Feb 27, 2016, 09:12 PM
It is saiki of extended making best efficiency
maybe useless player different unit choosing?

wefwq
Feb 27, 2016, 09:49 PM
Meme unit.

TaigaUC
Feb 27, 2016, 09:58 PM
I don't know if it's better than crafted Hiei, by the way.
I don't craft my units in general. Should have said that, sorry.
I still use my Zieg sets when I'm levelling classes (eg. SH EQs), and I don't notice any significant issues.

Qualia
Feb 27, 2016, 10:14 PM
Fahren units are trash for endgame content, but they can definitely carry you through SH. The only benefit of them is how easy they are to get. And yes, PP crafted Saiki is objectively the best unit set in this game currently. PP is a lot more valuable than the difference in attack bonuses.

Skye-Fox713
Feb 27, 2016, 10:23 PM
What about the Ideal unit set? just curious. Still using the Zieg r-atk set and just looking for something to set a goal for.

Sesheenku
Feb 28, 2016, 01:03 AM
If I can use my next bunch of ac wisely then I might be able to move up to saiki not long after.

Zeroem
Feb 28, 2016, 01:07 AM
All this talk about Saiki set makes me eager to see when SEGA release an armor set that will overthrow Saiki as the meta-unit somewhere in the future.

Konquer
Feb 28, 2016, 07:38 PM
saiki is top of the s tier sorry not sorry austere units give 60 atk and less pp and have far worse requirements to get and kaiser orbit only good for gunners (also 1hpp 2pp craft is good for xh/ult triple pp for competitive ta) and i dont wanna seee that lool? just dont get hit cause that isnt the reality considering even good players get hit.

please.

gunners can just go crafted tian + orbit.

kaiser + orbit is for melee.

Masu
Feb 28, 2016, 08:11 PM
Don't hit me but why Double units are so underated?...Was in dire need of PP, got Kaiser rear (the +15pp version). This single unit + PP crafted Double is godsend for non prem or those with bad luck getting full Saiki set from Gold bonus quest. My 2 cents.

Kondibon
Feb 28, 2016, 08:17 PM
Don't hit me but why Double units are so underated?...Was in dire need of PP, got Kaiser rear (the +15pp version). This single unit + PP crafted Double is godsend for non prem or those with bad luck getting full Saiki set from Gold bonus quest. My 2 cents.Double's units don't have any attack as part of their set bonus, and if we're talking purely free players they'd be HARDER to farm than Saiki because you can't just do a trigger or free field for a guaranteed dorumble like you can with GGG. If you happen to get some I guess they could be good while you get better stuff but I don't think anyone is going to suggest specifically seeking them out.

Masu
Feb 28, 2016, 08:18 PM
Well so I guess I'm "lucky" grabing those ones regularily. Thanks for answer b .

Kondibon
Feb 28, 2016, 09:19 PM
If you run 250% during TD4 (you should), you practically get a piece every run. Its way easier to farm than GGG.I don't run TD4 because I suck, but if that's an option nevermind then. :wacko:

Qualia
Feb 28, 2016, 09:35 PM
I use the double set just to show off my whitill wings :^)

Sp-24
Feb 28, 2016, 09:48 PM
Double can only match Saiki's PP bonus with uncrafted Kaiser Elte, and that unit kind of ruins the whole point of the extra HP the set gives (as does crafting Double for PP).

I'm using Double with P-Drive myself, but I've spent an awful lot of time figuring out what units would work the best for what I do.

Flaoc
Feb 28, 2016, 09:57 PM
please.

gunners can just go crafted tian + orbit.

kaiser + orbit is for melee.

saiki is for melee (and r atk and t atk) what you smokin unless you only use 1 wep on your set that is (aka LOL?)

Konquer
Feb 28, 2016, 11:33 PM
saiki is for melee (and r atk and t atk) what you smokin unless you only use 1 wep on your set that is (aka LOL?)

talks about kaiser, switches to topic to saiki when corrected. mk. LIKE DUH WHO DOESNT KNOW SAIKI IS FOR ALL CLASS?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/Hordini/kim_jong_un.jpg

please fix your dumb brain topkek

Great Pan
Feb 28, 2016, 11:46 PM
Saiki master race! +25pp is awesome!

Sesheenku
Feb 29, 2016, 04:50 AM
I don't run TD4 because I suck, but if that's an option nevermind then. :wacko:

Hurr, you know what helped me get back into things?

Like I said earlier in the thread after my long absence my units were unequipped for some reason.

I did a ton of VH missions at level 58 with no units at all, had like 500 s-def x}

You'll learn enemy patterns real fast e.e

Tyroki
Feb 29, 2016, 05:12 AM
Whats all this about special crafting if you extend to certain thresholds? o.o

escarlata
Feb 29, 2016, 05:27 AM
Whats all this about special crafting if you extend to certain thresholds? o.o
At ex3, 8 and 10 you can craft to give unit 100 HP or 10 PP.

Sandmind
Feb 29, 2016, 06:05 AM
Hurr, you know what helped me get back into things?

Like I said earlier in the thread after my long absence my units were unequipped for some reason.

I did a ton of VH missions at level 58 with no units at all, had like 500 s-def x}

You'll learn enemy patterns real fast e.e

IIRC, Sega did an unit rebalancing at launch of EP2 that drastically dropped their equipment requirement (EP1 units expected you to invest into your relevant def in your mag). If you were gone before, then this might had been it. Or you switched class and forgot to reequip then or now.

Achelousaurus
Feb 29, 2016, 09:33 AM
Ah, I'd heard about that. People crafting Hiei set until the stats are capable of handling VH/SH.

If that's what has to be done I guess that's fine.
Hiei is ok for XH. Not optimal of course but decent enough if you have it lvl 8+ (lvl 3 is fine for SH but in XH you really need more def) and got some neat affixes.
3s Affixing is incredibly cheap and easy now and 4s isn't too hard either.

Saiki is still the best but elryan has a point. It's just that the better units are very hard to get / only better than saiki for specific weapons.
Saiki is almost as good but for all weapons.


Sorry I actually meant units x} are they bad too?

I realized I didn't have my units equipped... I was doing all that stuff yesterday with no units.
You have to beat m4 of the 2nd cq to unlock the 2nd CM shop that sells units and photon boosters.

Kondibon
Feb 29, 2016, 06:25 PM
Hurr, you know what helped me get back into things?

Like I said earlier in the thread after my long absence my units were unequipped for some reason.

I did a ton of VH missions at level 58 with no units at all, had like 500 s-def x}

You'll learn enemy patterns real fast e.eIt's got nothing to do with my survivability, sweety.

Sesheenku
Mar 1, 2016, 01:36 PM
Hiei is ok for XH. Not optimal of course but decent enough if you have it lvl 8+ (lvl 3 is fine for SH but in XH you really need more def) and got some neat affixes.
3s Affixing is incredibly cheap and easy now and 4s isn't too hard either.

Saiki is still the best but elryan has a point. It's just that the better units are very hard to get / only better than saiki for specific weapons.
Saiki is almost as good but for all weapons.


You have to beat m4 of the 2nd cq to unlock the 2nd CM shop that sells units and photon boosters.

I've already got 2 Zieg pieces... uhhh I'm not sure I'm doing it right x} should I get a unit of each def type? I heard something about PP/HP difference?


It's got nothing to do with my survivability, sweety.

Hm well it is a pretty difficult EQ on top of that my best weapon has 753 s-atk and it's a 10 star so it's impossible to get points in SH X}

I can play the AI well enough though.

Achelousaurus
Mar 1, 2016, 02:04 PM
(ignore the cm4 part I got confused)
Hiei is really cheap cause it drops easily from magatsu and you can also buy it for very little in the shop.

The set bonus is also better than Fahren, 10 more attack and 6 more pp. When you craft a unit the stats are overwritten are will be the same regardless of rarity and individual unit bonus stats are also overwritten.

As for HP / PP differences, special craft lvl 3 / 8 / 10 sets individual unit bonus stats to 100hp for s-def, 10pp for r-def and 30hp/3pp / 4% all resist for t-def.
http://pso2.cirnopedia.info/craft_2_16.php#nav

As melee HP is important so you can just craft all units to s-def + 100HP per unit. (s-def is the most useful, followed by t-def while few enemies use attacks against r-def).
That lets you ignore hp on affixes And you can focus on attack or pp. Easiest for 3s is Quartz Soul + Power III + Spirita III.
Bayari Soul would be better but for some reason it's ridiculously expensive at the moment.

Sesheenku
Mar 1, 2016, 08:47 PM
I've already started Zieg then I upgraded immediate strike on my flame icarus and had a heart attack, I forgot that resets grind...

Kinda boned now, my DPS was already god awful, everyone's moved on past 10 star weapons in SH and now it's gonna be worse until I +10 them OOOORRR my dumb tax return arrived on the donkey it was placed on so I can get some ac and make some money fast.

-Sigh- Oh well after maint I'll try not to bring an SH LQ party down as I stack tri and meseta boosts.

Masu
Mar 1, 2016, 11:16 PM
Bayari Soul would be better but for some reason it's ridiculously expensive at the moment.

Hum let me guess...everyone running lq and no one run UQ. That was to be expected :-? At this pace and with upcoming boost, prices of UQ souls will most probably be even worse (Bayari at least).

Mio
Mar 1, 2016, 11:25 PM
So while I'd like to get a Saiki set and I'm farming it with no luck (and I ahve no 11* passes)

What would be the best buyable unit set? (up to 10*)

And should I craft it?

Thanks!

(Playing as RA/HU and FO/TE)

Skye-Fox713
Mar 1, 2016, 11:53 PM
Anybody got any experience with the Ideal unit set in comparison to the Saiki set?

TehCubey
Mar 1, 2016, 11:59 PM
So while I'd like to get a Saiki set and I'm farming it with no luck (and I ahve no 11* passes)

What would be the best buyable unit set? (up to 10*)

And should I craft it?

Thanks!

(Playing as RA/HU and FO/TE)

Following are acceptable sets. Nowhere near as good as saiki and mostly not endgame material - but acceptable:

Fahren set - clear Zieg's crafting related orders to get those. There should be a guide somewhere on the forum.

Ideal set - buy with challenge miles. If you get a whole set and fulfil Zieg's COs to show them to him, you get some (all? More than all for a net gain? I forget) of those miles back.

Hiei set - it's 7* so you can buy it from player shops without need of unit passes.

Crafting Hiei is mandatory, otherwise it's junk. Crafting Fahren and Ideal is optional - it will make them better, but even uncrafted they are serviceable. By crafting I mean special crafts of course.

All of those are in my opinion better than any 10* can give you.

Selphea
Mar 2, 2016, 12:02 AM
Anybody got any experience with the Ideal unit set in comparison to the Saiki set?

Ideal doesn't have enough PP for me. I had to switch to Saiki.

Keilyn
Mar 2, 2016, 12:17 AM
I tried something unorthodox (in mid-range) which on a 10* set gave me 24 - 30% elemental resistance vs all, around the same for Tech Resistance...and I managed around 15 - 20% strike and range resistance.... and though not high, around +50 - +60 in the attack that I wanted, easily affixable to retain those values and raise the attacks up from 60 to 100 each....as well as increase defensive values even further....

and all it really cost me was a little less than a million.......

Skye-Fox713
Mar 2, 2016, 12:26 AM
Following are acceptable sets. Nowhere near as good as saiki and mostly not endgame material - but acceptable:

Ideal set - buy with challenge miles. If you get a whole set and fulfil Zieg's COs to show them to him, you get some (all? More than all for a net gain? I forget) of those miles back.


Oh? really. When the servers come back up i'll have to check that out so I can get a boost to getting my first Ideal weapon.

escarlata
Mar 2, 2016, 01:07 AM
So while I'd like to get a Saiki set and I'm farming it with no luck (and I ahve no 11* passes)

What would be the best buyable unit set? (up to 10*)

And should I craft it?

Thanks!

(Playing as RA/HU and FO/TE)
Crafted Tian set and Negro set respectively would be the best sub 10*
Hiei is much cheaper to affix tho, and only lose 30 RAtk/TAtk compared to Tian/Negro

Ordy
Mar 2, 2016, 05:44 AM
S-Tier:

Kaiser Set (Rear + Arm) + Orbit Set (Leg + Weapon)
50 HP, 37 PP, 8%/10%/4% DEF, 140/140/50 ATK, 80 DEX

Austere Set + Weapon
260 HP, 35 PP, 10% DEF, 140 ATK, 100 DEX

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...


People still get this wrong >_<

Look at this picture:

http://puu.sh/nrXvX/da1e43fe0c.png

Do you see the little shield on the icons of the leg+weapon +80 stats? Well, it means +80 S-DEF / R-DEF / T-DEF and NOT ATK.

So no, full Austere set isn't +140 ATK but +60 ATK and +80 DEF.

However, this doesn't make Austere BAD. In fact, Austere rear|arm + Orbit leg is better than saiki (except for TA where every single PP matters and where 150atk would be over-killing mobs).

PP craft everything:

Saiki: 60 ATK, 55 PP, 80 DEX
Austere+Orbit leg: 60 ATK, 50 PP, 50 HP, 50 DEX
Austere+Orbit set: 110 ATK, 50 PP, 50 HP, 80 DEX

No orbit weapon Austere|Orbit vs saiki: you trade 5 PP / 30 DEX vs 50 HP (saiki wins)
Orbit weapon Austere|Orbit vs saiki: you trade 5 PP vs 50 ATK, 50 HP ... sorry guys but I can't see how "objectively" 5 PP is better than 50 ATK+50HP ... 50 ATK is what you get from Modulator+Flict, if 5 PP was so good, why don't you affix stigma instead?

You are kinda having a double standard saying things like "Orbit weapons are better than Austere weapons because the PP regen is so worth it" ... but then not considering the use of the Orbit set, because of a 5 PP difference?

At this point, the only acceptable arguments in favor of the saiki set should be:
- Time Attack
- I don't use or plan to use Orbit
- Austere|Orbit is too expensive and not worth my time

We also should stop using tier rankings for units or weapons, there are good things, decent things and bad things. We can argue about the usefulness or some sets, but saying "Austere is S-tier, Saiki is A-tier" could only confuse and mislead people.

Crafted Austere/Orbit is good, Saiki is good, Kaiser is good, Tian is good ... all of them are endgame, getting one or another won't make you better, improving your skills as a player will.

Keilyn
Mar 2, 2016, 07:19 AM
I love saiki sets and I have three of them, but I love Ideal Sets far too much since I learned to understand why they exist, where they should be used and why they were made to begin with...

....once I truly learned...It became clear to me on where SAIKI is better, where Ideal is better, and which of the two is ultimately the best.

Sp-24
Mar 2, 2016, 07:28 AM
I tried something unorthodox (in mid-range) which on a 10* set gave me 24 - 30% elemental resistance vs all, around the same for Tech Resistance...and I managed around 15 - 20% strike and range resistance.... and though not high, around +50 - +60 in the attack that I wanted, easily affixable to retain those values and raise the attacks up from 60 to 100 each....as well as increase defensive values even further....

and all it really cost me was a little less than a million.......
How many affix slots did it take? From my experience, mixing HP and All Resist is the best way to build a defensive set that still provides some attack or PP.

Keilyn
Mar 2, 2016, 08:51 AM
@SP-24

Love your Rika Avatar...my fav. character from End of the Millenium.

Anyhow to answer your question:

Remember during the xmas event? All those armors that dropped from the gryphon? This was a time when many 8-slot armors dropped since everyone was killing that event. In fact one could buy the 8s Luxe units for 200K and under...

During that time I chose to stockpile them and came up with an idea......

I would make a mid-range armor set since classes have to be able to reach 75 and its not like we can skip 25 levels from 50 to do it...

What I did was the following:

1) I got a Luxe Set
http://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?%E3%83%AA%E3%83%A5%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9%E3% 82%AB%E3%83%AB%E3%83%A0

2) I made sure it was Eight Slots and had at least the following:

Gryphon Soul
Ability III
All Resist III

3) I then decided to craft the armor set in the way of Attributes. This adds 4% Tech Resist and 4% of all Elemental Resists...

4) This meant that from the start I was getting the following values:

str. resist: 9%
rng. resist: 9%
tech resist: 21%
fire resist: 21%
ice resist: 21%
lit resist: 21%
wind resist: 21%
light resist: 21%
dark resist: 21%

------------------------------------------------------

However, this was on just crafting and armor itself...and one gains 30 HP and 3 PP on doing the Attribute Craft...

Set bonus is +60 DEX, +60 Health, + 10 PP

------------------------------------------------------

The Units had other affixes since it was 8 slot, after taking all into account, the resistances became the following:

str. resist: 15%
rng. resist: 15%
tech resist: 24%
Fire Resist: 25%
Ice resist: 24%
Light Resist: 21%
Dark Resist: 21%
Wind Resist: 21%
Lightning Resist: 27%

Then I have a weapon that is affixed to give me:

Blow Resist III and All Resist III (2 of the affixes), some health and attack that is a Gunslash. :)

So now I end up with

str. res :23%
rng res: 18%
tech res: 27%
fire res: 28%
ice res: 27%
light res: 24%
wind res: 24%
dark res: 24%
Lighting res: 30%

If I know a hit is coming and I can't avoid it....I switch to Gunslash and take it...

5) What about Dex itself?

The Set bonus is perfect for Defensive Playing since Dex, Health and PP is there. Now 60 Dex from the SET BONUS along with 90 Dex from the units combine mean I have +150 DEX, but with other things i have in the armor I actually have around +160 - +170 DEX.

Dex controls the amount of minimum damage that I inflict, but it also reduces the maximum amount of damage I take from an attack BEFORE defense is calculated.....

This means if an enemy has a lot more DEX than I do, the enemy will hit me for more damage and I will hit the enemy for less damage. People didn't see that before because they were level 75 players in SH that has level 63 - 70 enemies. However, in XH its seen everywhere. Its amazing when a player with minimum dexterity and no defense gets one-shotted from a level 80 chrome dragon's attacks...

Being a Mid-Range Armor I worked on, it means the focus is staying alive more than raw damage, so that means that even though enemies are 13 - 20 levels higher than me, as long as my Dexterity is on their level, I will sustain damage as though I were their level instead of at my level, so the number of high-damage hits against me actually lowers...

6) What about damage?

Gryphon Soul + Ability III means +30 on ATP, DFP and Dex. I do have mutation and strays on the armor here and there that give me +10 on attack. This means that I actually have around +50 + 50 +40. However, there is good news to this.....

I can reaffix and turn my Level 1s into Level 2s, and work to retain mutation. I can then reaffix to turn level 2s into level 3 and then mutation1 into mutation 2. When I decide to go to level 3s if I wanted to I can also choose to use a Noble Boost power up...It would go from +40 to around +90 - +105 each piece. of course i could always put in Noble Stamina if I want extra health and PP aside from whatever stamina may be on the unit too... Choices are everywhere...

Also, my resistances would also go by 2 points because I would go from a single resist I to a single resist III on the slots I wish to keep. Just the fact I could go from Level 1 to Level 2 so range can go to 20%, I can drop a blow resist 1 and run it with a blow resist iii, but though I would lose 1% resistant, I would gain that one slot to put something else in it...

So I can be more efficient too... So many choices you know. ;)

Conclusion:

Stuff like this make for exceptional mid-range...especially if its crafted with the items that reduce the Equipment Stat Requirement by 10 or 20%....and the best part is that for Mid-Range play I can keep it at Level 3 unless I truly want to raise it to 10.

If you want even more DEFENSE....
Get a Free Partner who is a TECHER who will cast DEBAND CUT (Reduce the damage down to 85%) and Deband Toughness on you (increase health by 25%) and this becomes even more ridiculous.

I managed to reduced Vol Dragon Breath Weapon damage against me to under 200 a hit, and im nearing 60.... :)

Ordy
Mar 2, 2016, 01:01 PM
I managed to reduced Vol Dragon Breath Weapon damage against me to under 200 a hit, and im nearing 60.... :)

Or you could dodge it and take zero damage. No seriously, it's not productive to stack that many resists.

Keilyn
Mar 2, 2016, 04:54 PM
Lets try something mathematical...

Player 1 has 2/3rds of the DPS of player 2. Player 2 died and stayed dead for 10 seconds in a 30 second battle, and had a 2 second downtime in being reanimated to life and reorienting himself. Assuming that we maintained DPS throughout the 30 second battle, determine and compare the DPS of player 1 and 2.

Solution:

We assume that the battle ended after 30 seconds regardless the number of players involved, player 1 and player 2 contributed to the battle itself. We also know that we do not have a physical damage number to compare DPS to, but we can derive multipliers since we have 2/3rds vs 1

Player 1 fought for 30 seconds
Player 2 fought for 30 seconds - 10 seconds (dead) - 2 seconds (recovery from death + orientation)

Player 1's DPS = 30 * 2/3 = 60/3 = 20
Player 2's DPS = 18 x 1 = 18

In this case, Player 1's DPS was 11.1% higher than player 2's DPS.

Question: Why did I choose 2/3rd vs 1?
Answer: I wanted an assumption that the pure-DPS oriented player had 50% more DPS than me. This means that mathematically my DPS is 2/3rds of the DPS player. In order to go from 2/3rds to 1, I would need 50% more, 2/3rds + 1/3rds = 1.

Note: If I was the one who took a second to revive player 2. My DPS would drop between 18.66 - 19.33 and not be at 20, however a lower DPS person is better for healing and revival of high DPS players.

Of course, assuming it was someone else did the revive, it would mean if the revive occurred 8 seconds into death and not 10, then it would have 30 - 8 - 2 = 20, and the DPS of both players would match. Another way of reading this is:

"In a situation where 2 players exist, one who's dps is 50% higher than the other, death exceeding eight seconds against the higher DPS player in a 30 second battle would result in a greater loss of DPS than the surviving player's output."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did not dodge the Vol Dragon Fireball because at the time I was using SUMMONER and my pet was around me asking for SHIFTA (TRIM) and so I charged SHIFTA knowing that it would buff the PET. Then I moved forward so that I TOOK THE FIREBALL and not my PET, while my PET attacked the boss while I was knocked out from the FIREBALL.

if I had tried to DODGE, my tech would have been cancelled, my DPS would have been lower and my pet's would have taken the hit.

Dodging is nice, but sometimes BLOCKING or taking the hit is better especially if DODGING means the one behind you can get killed or truly cripple their health. Playing summoner the player is going to have to make the choice at times to take the damage for the pet or risk losing the pet and its DPS.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its amazing how many DPS oriented players get killed by Chrome Dragon and Falz-Type Bosses in LQ, as well as the number of moons that are thrown. Amazing that I see how DPS dies both Figuratively and Literally when 4 - 6 DPS players die, and then everyone wants to get the FUN POINTS from resurrection so they stop to throw their moons while I am healing and keeping everyone alive and buffed up while also playing fighter (fi/te) and end up in MPAs that have 0 Techers and I am the only Techer/Sub focused on support.

You talk about dodging, but eventually you will take a hit. It is your job when that time comes to survive and if you don't, a revive will come your way....however if I have to revive you more than once, it truly means that I am the one carrying you and not the other way around.

Qualia
Mar 2, 2016, 06:07 PM
You're assuming they die, which wouldn't be an issue if they avoided the hit. Avoiding hits barely makes a dent in your DPS, and there are always crutches like automate and megiverse to keep you alive while dealing damage. And you can't use rando MPAs as an example, because over 90% of the PUGs in this game are awful. Show me an image of you topping DPS charts with a gimmicky resist build on something like Magatsu or PD, then I'll agree with you.

Rehal
Mar 2, 2016, 07:58 PM
You're assuming they die, which wouldn't be an issue if they avoided the hit. Avoiding hits barely makes a dent in your DPS, and there are always crutches like automate and megiverse to keep you alive while dealing damage. And you can't use rando MPAs as an example, because over 90% of the PUGs in this game are awful. Show me an image of you topping DPS charts with a gimmicky resist build on something like Magatsu or PD, then I'll agree with you.

Wow what game are you playing PSO2 doesn't have dodge man, you either run far away from stuffs and lose 99999% of DPS or you tank through attacks and do 1000% DPS.

D-Inferno
Mar 2, 2016, 08:23 PM
I would consider Austere+Orbit if Austere units could actually be sold. I think I'll just wait on 12* units, considered I'm hardly even playing PSO2 till Yamato hits (I doubt mining/fishing will really constitute as "playing" really). Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Keilyn
Mar 2, 2016, 08:39 PM
@Qualia

Your post is so filled with holes...

You talk about ACT screenshots where I am usually in the top-half of DPS and usually #1 in Heal Per Second as well to the MPAs I am part of..

What you fail to realize is that these Damage Parse Programs do not take into account TRUE sources of DPS. Here is an example :)

Lets say weak bullet is used......and you aren't a ranger. Suppose weak bullet was 250%. It would mean 2.5/1 = .4. This means that thanks to Weak Bullet, you are only responsible for 40% of your DPS. You attack to hit for 100 damage and see 250, but without weakbullet you would see 100 meaning you aren't the reason why it reads 250 (+150), weak bullet is...!

However myself as both Fi/Te and Te/Fi.

If I cast Shifta Strike to increase the damage output by a flat +10% overall. It means that 1/1.1 = .909. This means that I AM RESPONSIBLE for at LEAST 9.1% of the DPS of EACH PLAYER in the MPA as long as I maintain SHIFTA STRIKE, and here I am not even talking about the differential that comes from SHIFTA CRITICAL or just RAW SHIFTA numbers...

There is also the consideration given from applying DEBAND CUT and DEBAND TOUGHNESS to all the players in the MPA.

There is also the nice thing I do which is to lock to a target, home-in using a twin dagger PA and then charge a fast-cast customized zanverse and put it right below me on hardpoints...and follow it up with a Megiverse....

What happens is if you actually DO the math, in that instance as a single person I am responsible for actually doing 28.1% of the TOTAL DAMAGE in the MPA....+ people are healing for 4 - 6 digit numbers...

This causes the BOSS to aggro and turn as many of its attacks on me. Running with Ideal Armor gives me 15% vs everything, and when I dodge attack after attack, and find I can't dodge the full focus of every single thing the boss throws at me, while I am actually giving EACH PLAYER a break who can die in 1 - 2 hits by having boss anger and attention focused on me....

So yes, you can talk about idiotic programs that list damage numbers but do not account for real sources of DPS (and reward those players). You can give me the dodge/evasion speeches and issue me DPS sources... I can prove you wrong with Critical Thinking and Mathematics....

^_^

Qualia
Mar 2, 2016, 08:54 PM
Fam we aren't talking about support lmao. You might as well say that casting constant zanverses means you're essentially doing 20% of the MPA's damage. The real argument is taking damage over resists, and if you don't get hit there's no point in taking resist affixes; you're just wasting potential attack.

edit: wait you did bring up zanverse loool

Keilyn
Mar 3, 2016, 12:51 AM
There is no REAL argument here...

I was asked by sp-24 on what I did for defensive armor, and I explained it step by step even stating its intention was not to run for max-damage. I mathematically explained something common that happens in the LQ runs, and your response was that I don't have the right to use Randoms because "90% of pugs" are bad.

I have not seen you make any direct argument, nor have you proven you can handle any real argument considering you have offered no academic proofing of any kind or credible arguments outside of having to accept what you say because you will it so.

If your sig represents the class you are....
I can understand your arguments if you are a katana braver...

As soon as anything difficult pops up in XH like Enraged Bosses and you are way over your head, you can just hit a button and instantly for 20 seconds the game goes from being XH to being N. I suppose while that is good for many players, that simply isn't good enough for me.

I can respect a player, but when players want to convince me of expertise, skill, honor, and humility, and the same person has braver in their sig, it just reminds me of this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV64ZSs6W3k

Rehal
Mar 3, 2016, 01:09 AM
However myself as both Fi/Te and Te/Fi.

SHIFTA STRIKE and DEBAND TOUGHNESS is Te main class only btw.



If I cast Shifta Strike to increase the damage output by a flat +10% overall. It means that 1/1.1 = .909. This means that I AM RESPONSIBLE for at LEAST 9.1% of the DPS of EACH PLAYER in the MPA as long as I maintain SHIFTA STRIKE, and here I am not even talking about the differential that comes from SHIFTA CRITICAL or just RAW SHIFTA numbers...

There is also the consideration given from applying DEBAND CUT and DEBAND TOUGHNESS to all the players in the MPA.

If there is another Te that applied SHIFTA and SHIFTA STRIKE and SHIFTA CRITICAL and DEBAND and DEBAND CUT and DEBAND TOUGHNESS and can maintain them all at ease then your existence is redundant as they have covered everything you can do already.


There is also the nice thing I do which is to lock to a target, home-in using a twin dagger PA and then charge a fast-cast customized zanverse and put it right below me on hardpoints...and follow it up with a Megiverse....

What happens is if you actually DO the math, in that instance as a single person I am responsible for actually doing 28.1% of the TOTAL DAMAGE in the MPA....+ people are healing for 4 - 6 digit numbers...

A scenario where other 11 players perfectly follow up with you using twin dagger PA then do something to deal damage is extremely unlikely unless all 12 characters in mpa are you playing them, people could be spreading out around the target at random distances as they are playing ranged class. Your Zanverse CANNOT cover everyone in most of the case and that number is thus not practical enough to be put in here for demonstration.

Also the way Zanverse works is it collects damage dealt from all friendlies in range of Zanverse on your screen then spits out damage at delayed interval. Using Megiverse right after Zanverse allows you to heal from Zanverse's ticks but in actuality doing so will cut Zanverse's duration short as the moment Megiverse is up the old Zanverse will stop collecting damage immediately, its function of applying damage with delayed interval is still intact thus giving people the illusion of both Zanverse and Megiverse are up at the same time from one person but they are actually not.

in another note me be very likey at how yew drove the topic from "units" to "dps of someone died mid-way vs dps of someone never dies" when someone mentioned dodge to take zero damage, then yew drove it to "source of deeps something support shifta deband zanverse look at my contributing in ideal scenario where only me the true hero protagonist can use shifta and zanverse"

tis game be ez errything can be cleared by itself, just hop in mpa then wtach hell burns dun eva need to do anything liek mii :D

I liek the way of "Do whatever you want" now, everyone should do the same, feels good to not care and just play video game. If your units sux then people can moon you.
. _.b

Kondibon
Mar 3, 2016, 01:27 AM
I liek the way of "Do whatever you want" now, everyone should do the same, feels good to not care and just play video game. If your units sux then people can moon you.
. _.bPlease don't do that.

Rehal
Mar 3, 2016, 01:36 AM
But is kool and fine.
Your damage output only goes to leech zone when you use something like uncrafted 7* weapon, or skill tree with not a single SP spent on offensive bonus, or playing hybrid class combination that has little to no synergy like RaBo, HuFo, BoSu, ......... . 3.

Kondibon
Mar 3, 2016, 01:57 AM
But is kool and fine.
Your damage output only goes to leech zone when you use something like uncrafted 7* weapon, or skill tree with not a single SP spent on offensive bonus, or playing hybrid class combination that has little to no synergy like RaBo, HuFo, BoSu, ......... . 3.
Don't throw around phrases like "do whatever you want" then, because you'd be surprised what people want. :I

Rehal
Mar 3, 2016, 02:04 AM
Don't throw around phrases like "do whatever you want" then, because you'd be surprised what people want. :I

Uhh I guess... _(:3」∠)_

Though I'd still be okay with that in TD because then I get to be a dynasty warriors hero in PSO2! ヾ(゚∀゚)ノ"

gabor100
Mar 3, 2016, 03:33 AM
I was asked by sp-24 on what I did for defensive armor



How many affix slots did it take?

You made a giant wall of text explaining everything that nobody asked, instead saying "I was buying Luxe units for 200K with Gryphon Soul+All Resist3 and some random resist 1s/2s. Extended it to Tech special Lv3 and done."

Vatallus
Mar 3, 2016, 04:25 AM
I have one character using Magatsu Set with All Resist 3 on each unit because I'm a derp.

DRAGONxNOGARD
Mar 4, 2016, 05:56 PM
what about lightning set

Macman
Mar 4, 2016, 07:57 PM
Those freebies that Tagami vomits at you every encounter? Pretty bad. You're better off with a Zieg set at that rate.