Tokyo, Train Ghidoran, and the Worst. Camera. Ever.

[Stormwalker]

Seriously, how does anyone kill Train Ghidoran without dying when he spawns in the city proper and not in his boss room? The camera gets me killed repeatedly because I literally cannot see his attacks because even when the camera is facing him, most of him is offscreen.

I am about at the point of never doing Tokyo Exploration solo again, gathering or no.

And I have absolutely no problems with this boss in his boss arena. But the narrow spaces in the Tokyo city field screw with the camera to the point of making it useless.

I. Hate. This. Field. So. Much.

[Frien]

Know the animations / sound cues for an attack. I don't have any issues at all and I'm always playing melee classes, y'know, the worst thing to have when it comes to camera angles during a boss fight.

[Kondibon]

I don't really have a hard time figuring out his tells, but does anyone know what you're supposed to do about that snowball suction attack? I feel like there's a trick to avoiding it that I'm not getting.

[AlphaBlob]

I don't really have a hard time figuring out his tells, but does anyone know what you're supposed to do about that snowball suction attack? I feel like there's a trick to avoiding it that I'm not getting.
Just get behind it and attack the esc-a logo.

[Kondibon]

Just get behind it and attack the esc-a logo.I think you're thinking of a different attack...

[Stormwalker]

I don't really have a hard time figuring out his tells, but does anyone know what you're supposed to do about that snowball suction attack? I feel like there's a trick to avoiding it that I'm not getting.

I generally S-Roll/Step through it. That's actually the easiest of his attacks to avoid for me.

My problem with knowing his tells is that I can't see anything but his feet most of the time when fighting him in the city field. Again, this isn't a problem in his boss arena where I can see him more clearly. Even in melee, I can see enough of him to avoid him there.

Today I was getting hit by attacks that never animated on my screen somewhere between a third and half the time. I'd just hear a sound and see a damage number and get knocked down.

[Kondibon]

I generally S-Roll/Step through it. That's actually the easiest of his attacks to avoid for me.

My problem with knowing his tells is that I can't see anything but his feet most of the time when fighting him in the city field. Again, this isn't a problem in his boss arena where I can see him more clearly. Even in melee, I can see enough of him to avoid him there.

Today I was getting hit by attacks that never animated on my screen somewhere between a third and half the time. I'd just hear a sound and see a damage number and get knocked down.Haven't there always been problems with big bosses spawning in the field, it's not really limited to Ghidoran.

[GHNeko]

I think you're thinking of a different attack...

The suction attack right?

He's right, if you go past the head while its sucking, its logo is exposed.

[Kondibon]

The suction attack right?

He's right, if you go past the head while its sucking, its logo is exposed.That's kinda hard when you're playing a ranged class. :wacko: I've tried dodging into it before, but it feels inconsistent, sometimes I get stuck and end up getting hit anyway. I guess I just need to git good.

[AlphaBlob]

That's kinda hard when you're playing a ranged class. :wacko: I've tried dodging into it before, but it feels inconsistent, sometimes I get stuck and end up getting hit anyway. I guess I just need to git good.
The ESC-A logo are always located on the side, so if you're attacking it from the sides, the attack shouldn't reach you. Whenever the boss attack just run to one of the side and attack from there.

[MasterGunz2345]

I really hate fighting the train ghidorhan as well, such a pain in the ass and can never kill it by myself lol

[Evangelion X.XX]

As melee, Phantom Train is actually quite easy if you counter/dodge his attacks from a distance (not extreme distance, mind you) and then hammer his blatant weak spots, whenever it over-extends is head/tail (instead of just doing relentless attacks).

So bascially, the strategy I use is:

1. Keep at countering distance and just wait instead of running around near its feet and therefore not really being able to see its heads.
2. Counter its heads/tail attacks. If it does its suction move, I dash/Guren forward and go behind the vacuum.
3. Attack its shining weak spot when heads or tail are temporarily immobilized after it attacks.
4. Rinse and repeat.

Some other probable culprits are:

1. Excessive usage of "Lock-On" that causes the camera to go haywire as melee.
2. Constantly being as Phantom Train's feet, but because he's so big, you can't see or know what its heads are doing.

[Stormwalker]

That's kinda hard when you're playing a ranged class. :wacko: I've tried dodging into it before, but it feels inconsistent, sometimes I get stuck and end up getting hit anyway. I guess I just need to git good.


If it's right in front of you, it can be pretty hard to avoid it, and Dive Roll... well, Dive Roll is better than it once was, but it's not well suited to avoiding that attack. S-Roll and Step both work a lot better.

The attacks that were getting me killed were the overhead ones, where he stabs downward into the ground. Since I couldn't see them at all, I couldn't even time my S-Rolls correctly even when I knew they were coming. The ones that come in from ground level I could avoid consistently.

And yeah, the camera has been a problem with other bosses, but... the problem here isn't really Train (though his being huge complicates it), it's Tokyo. Specifically, the camera in this game does not handle LoS obstructions well and sometimes it positions itself in really whack ways (also very noticeable when trying to take screenshots using the fixed cameras in an area with railings or lots of furniture about), and in Tokyo because of the walls and relatively narrow streets there are ALWAYS LoS obstructions.

[Saagonsa]

If it's right in front of you, it can be pretty hard to avoid it, and Dive Roll... well, Dive Roll is better than it once was, but it's not well suited to avoiding that attack. S-Roll and Step both work a lot better.

The attacks that were getting me killed were the overhead ones, where he stabs downward into the ground. Since I couldn't see them at all, I couldn't even time my S-Rolls correctly even when I knew they were coming. The ones that come in from ground level I could avoid consistently.

And yeah, the camera has been a problem with other bosses, but... the problem here isn't really Train (though his being huge complicates it), it's Tokyo. Specifically, the camera in this game does not handle LoS obstructions well and sometimes it positions itself in really whack ways (also very noticeable when trying to take screenshots using the fixed cameras in an area with railings or lots of furniture about), and in Tokyo because of the walls and relatively narrow streets there are ALWAYS LoS obstructions.

Train will always stab his head into the ground either 2 or 4(more?) times before finally hitting the spot where you're standing. It's honestly probably one of his most avoidable attacks, just run under and behind him if you don't trust your abilities to dodge/block it.

[Stormwalker]

As melee, Phantom Train is actually quite easy if you counter/dodge his attacks from a distance (not extreme distance, mind you) and then hammer his blatant weak spots, whenever it over-extends is head/tail (instead of just doing relentless attacks).

So bascially, the strategy I use is:

1. Keep at countering distance and just wait instead of running around near its feet and therefore not really being able to see its heads.
2. Counter its heads/tail attacks. If it does its suction move, I dash/Guren forward and go behind the vacuum.
3. Attack its shining weak spot when heads or tail are temporarily immobilized after it attacks.
4. Rinse and repeat.

Some other probable culprits are:

1. Excessive usage of "Lock-On" that causes the camera to go haywire as melee.
2. Constantly being as Phantom Train's feet, but because he's so big, you can't see or know what its heads are doing.

Almost all of my problems in Tokyo happen more as Gunner than any other class. And this one is no exception. Remaining at long range makes it hard to get to the weak points in the narrow time windows you get as a Gunner without using Dead Approach (which is hard to do effectively if you play with a controller, due to awkward weapon palette switching). Heel Stab and Grim Barrage are too slow, as is Front S-Roll.

I suppose I could just kill him with Elder Rebellion, but if I was going to do that, I might as well play Ranger.

Or, you know, SEGA could have just given us the opportunity to set the camera out to a longer distance, and then this all becomes very simple.

[Seijass]

Camera? Gunner?

Nobody's going to mention Aerial Shooting (or also some twin dagger PAs of similar nature) where the camera simply won't elevate along with your character unless you Grim or manually reset it using lock on or TPS aim? Almost 4 years old and this issue still exists.

[wahahaha]

Honestly its time to get good, amigo.

[ContinuumXIX]

Camera? Gunner?

Nobody's going to mention Aerial Shooting (or also some twin dagger PAs of similar nature) where the camera simply won't elevate along with your character unless you Grim or manually reset it using lock on or TPS aim? Almost 4 years old and this issue still exists.

This right here...on Gunner and Fighter I have to deal with this quite a bit, having to reset my camera if I did decide to use aerial shooting or daggers at all, otherwise, I don't know what I'm doing in the air lol

[landman]

You could always go Force and play nuking everything just watching at the minimap :wacko:

[Seijass]

Nah I personally prefer flying around and dropping Sat Aim bombs :D

[Stormwalker]

Camera? Gunner?

Nobody's going to mention Aerial Shooting (or also some twin dagger PAs of similar nature) where the camera simply won't elevate along with your character unless you Grim or manually reset it using lock on or TPS aim? Almost 4 years old and this issue still exists.

Believe me, I know. Fighter and Gunner are the two classes I play most.

[Stormwalker]

Honestly its time to get good, amigo.

I think most of the folks I've played with will attest to the fact that I'm generally a pretty good player.

And, as noted, I have absolutely no problems with Train Ghidoran in his boss arena. It's only out in the field that I have issues with him.

In fact, in his boss arena, I generally find him to be pretty easy.

And for the record, while I'll admit it's a bit rant-ish, what I was really looking for here was someone who had run into the same kind of camera problems I have been having and who had found ways around them that I could put to use.

But I guess I'll find my own way. Though if it wasn't for the fact that Tokyo is one of the gathering fields and I need stuff from there for one of my characters, I probably wouldn't bother, because I don't enjoy the field in general.

[Seijass]

Train Ghidoran in Tokyo ARKS Quest final area is generally easy tbh... like, fixed attack patterns? Quartz/Vardha on the same level will give anybody a harder time... It's only annoying in exploration area since it's big af compared to the area making weak points often clip into walls/buildings.

[Stormwalker]

For what it's worth, I figured it out, though the answer was counter-intuitive to me.

Ultimately I solved it by fighting him on my FI with a friend around who could watch the fight without having to worry about staying alive.

For anyone else who might be having this problem... you're probably someone like me who really intensely dislikes camera issues in games and its' distracting you from the fight. In this case, as bad as it is, it's only a distraction. Every single one of his move telegraphs except one can be seen even when you're right up on him (he's very obliging about putting those train cars down into your field of view before smacking you with them), and in a lot of cases being right up on him is the safest place to be.

The one you can't see is the downward strikes, but if you're close enough, the first two will consistently miss, and the sound of him hitting the ground gives you plenty of time to set up and evade the third one (which, as a FI, dagger parry is great for this... as other classes, in a lot of cases the easy way to evade is to just run underneath him).

When I say close enough, I mean close enough that after he chucks the yellow car at you, you will actually have to back up a little bit to get to the weak point.

I still think the camera sucks, mind... but it's merely an annoyance, not an obstacle, in this case.

[ArcaneTechs]

yeesh its like the old Wolga AI days

[Petunia]

I don't really have a hard time figuring out his tells, but does anyone know what you're supposed to do about that snowball suction attack? I feel like there's a trick to avoiding it that I'm not getting.

Get behind the attack before the it begins. It should be easy as a melee class, when you see the Red head begin to move for its attack, run behind where the head will be.

As for the Camera, there needs to be a bigger zoom out. It's already in the game, just look at TD4 and how the Camera zooms right out against Apprentice.
I don't have any issues with its tells, but I can see how other people might.

[Kondibon]

Get behind the attack before the it begins. It should be easy as a melee class

It should be easy as a melee class

a melee class

That's kinda hard when you're playing a ranged class.
http://i.imgur.com/AEDyXrG.png

[Stormwalker]

As a Gunner, you can just S-Roll right through that attack and you'll end up behind it (ready to unload on the weak point) without getting hit if you time it right. I'd imagine a Force can Mirage Escape through it the same way.

Ranger... that's a little tougher. Generally if I have my rifle out I will run perpendicular (basically, run sideways, usually to my left, opposite the side it comes out on) to put as much distance between myself and it before it starts as I can, then dive-roll once it starts trying to pull me in. Seems to work pretty well.

[SteveCZ]

*snip*

Just like "fun", "hard" and "easy" are also relative to each player. :D

[Petunia]

http://i.imgur.com/AEDyXrG.png

As long as you have a way to quickmove you should be fine.

[matt4394]

Learn to dodge, learn the fight, learn to play.

[Xaelouse]

The worst part about the Train is a MPA being uncoordinated and breaking parts when he gets stunned

[Stormwalker]

Learn to dodge, learn the fight, learn to play.

A great deal of the rage in the original post was directed at the fact that Sega's incredibly crappy camera implementation makes the fight artificially difficult. And really, it's not just that fight; that's just one obvious example because the boss is too big to fit on screen at any camera angle we can actually achieve... that's only one of many problems trying to manage the camera in this game.

I still get annoyed anything anything happens that causes me to not be able to see what I'm doing (notably, getting too close to any physical obstruction so that suddenly I can't see my own character on screen anymore!)

Not that this is anything new, the camera has been pissing me off in this game since, oh... whenever I started playing. I don't remember when that was. VHard wasn't out yet.

It just so happens that this particular case was enough to push me into ranting about it.

EDIT: For an interesting experience sometime... solo a SHAQ with one of the fixed cameras set to high overhead. I wouldn't want to fight that way all the time, but makes for kind of an interesting view when you're mobbing. Makes me wish we could get denser packs of mobs to solo, though. I'd really like to be able to fight honest-to-goodness hordes of enemies sometime.

[TaiDono]

trains annoying
u.u